The Batman Problem In Suicide Squad Kills The Justice League
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2024
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Just a heads up, I know this week has been weird for regular Comic Book videos. Remember we have "Classic" Comicstorian over here on another channel www.youtube.com/@comicstorianfullstory And tomorrow is a normal Full Story, plus Joker Year One this week, more Daredevil, I got Godzilla made and ready to go and Superior Spider-Man. More comics coming!
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Benny, are you and Sal gonna do a review for Crisis on Infinite Earth's Part 1?
I think my opinion, they should have him Fighting in a cut soon and then it happens. He does his manalogue. And then Holly Quinn.
i would argue that rocksteady doesnt understand arkhamverse batman🤷♂️ the bit you missed is the fact arkhamverse fans are mad they retconned the entire arkhamverse to shoehorn the new game into the lore. harley references events that never happened in the arkhamverse, she talks about things that never could have possibly happened in the arkhamverse, and shes a totaly different version of harley. they swapped arkham harley for james gunn's harley. they forgot deadshot was white and swapped him with the james gunn version with a lame retconn, how did deadshots daughter not recognise her dad was a different race all of the sudden? they got alot of shit wrong, the game would have been better recieved if they didnt shoehorn it into the arkham verse
Benny said it best in one video. Batmans story was done. They just dragged him out just to kill him.
Kevin Conroy knew best
Batman’s story was done… that’s why this isn’t a Batman game. It’s a suicide squad game set in the same universe. Batman was always going to be a member of the Justice league, he was always going to come back one way or another. And once again for everyone who still believes he’s dead, he’s not.
I do agree that we need some more games to fill in the gaps. Specifically a Batman game post Arkham Knight, and then a Justice League game. Solo games for the other members would be nice too. And an origins sequel would be awesome but not necessary for the story here.
I’ve been saying this too.
I really don’t mind him dying, and I’ve been playing the Arkham games since I was 8 (I’m 23 with a kid and mortgage now. lol)
no we didnt need a post arkham batman game, just a justice league game between city and knight@@dakotatrue12
He isn't dead jeez you guys probably thought Batman died in the The dark knight rises and Arkham knight lol 🤦♂️
Batman has a history of resisting mind control. So having him controlled by Brainiac but having moments of resistance and clarity, ultimately sacrificing himself to help the squad would have been received better.
He’s not even dead
@@guankzmm4176and Lois barely reacted to Superman’s death lol get your writers to work harder
This game did a great job at letting us all know that the writers at least knew green lanterns color.
It's like Green Lantern movie, all they knew the outfit was green.
Yea they literally ignored the most important part of the ring when a user dies just for a cool lantern construct of a great white scene I feel like
@bryantclay7212 I mean given the fact that the Ring even let Jon use lethal force pretty clearly shows that it's probably been hacked in some way. Rings are usually explained as a technology of sorts iirc anyways.
@@5thdimension6thsense21I thought the rings allowed lethal force now if the user believed it was the only way to stop them
I’m not mad at the game but I genuinely thought that it would be about the squad getting tasked with killing the league and then going on to save them from Braniac. That just feels like the natural place you take that story to, to me.
it's very likely where they are going
I honestly am happy that they got to kill the justice league. They gave us a twist and actually showed some follow through which like you said, isn’t what usually happens in stories like this
Spoiler: they kill the JL to sell SEASONS
With 1 league member from other universe, i see them showing Black Superman, Black Batman and Trans wonder woman
Since they show Joker Who IS dead in Arkhamverse
And it could still go there, the story's not done.
@@HCWz_CriticalHit Except you have to buy a sqaud of jobbers can kill the JL. If this was a group of A level threats [Black Adam and his ilk]. You cant have scene the flash blasts through Lexs combat suit then rip his heart. Only to have the squad kill him in the next with bullets that to quote the game "may as well have been mailed" to the flash.
I thought Benny was going grey but realized that’s just the light shining off his hair lol
He's evolving from Benni ths Grey to Bennie the White. It's so majestic
Im also going grey... VERY slowly lol
Lol me as well benny
Usually our beards show that colours before our hair but OK 😅
Bad lighting like that is my biggest issue with content creators; Mr. Beat (no S, the history guy) ALWAYS looks like he's...like...wet. Like he splashed water on his face or is constantly sweating. Maybe it's because I took a video editing class in college which included a week on lighting for footage so I have a tiny bit of knowledge, but it's one of the things that irks me.
Why is it that whenever something is trash/ garbage/ unwatchable/unplayable/ uncreative and MANY PEOPLE DONT LIKE IT…All of a Sudden it’s, a Fandom problem.
I think its more like the Goku vs Superman thing. People didn't like it because it wasn't loyal to the characters. They redid the fight in a much loyal way and fans where pretty ok with it. They respected the characters that we love. As an owner of several Batman tattoos I can say that I'm totally fine with my favorite character losing a fight and dying but as long as its in character.
Yeah. I just rewatched justice league unlimited and didn’t mind the heroes losing but when it broke rules to make it happen it doesn’t sit right
I feel like the only real way to bring Arkham Batman back would be a Batman Beyond game because Arkham Knight killed off Bruce Wayne. It just seems weird to even say “and then a few years later he joined the Justice League”. With Batman Beyond it would be “he continued to be a dark nightmare Batman 24/7 until he got so old he couldn’t anymore, and then Terry found him”.
But in general the game either shouldn’t have been about killing the Justice League, or Batman should’ve gone out heroically. Frankly, I do think having Arkham Batman’s mind get taken over is disrespectful because Joker was taking over his mind in the third game. He’s defeated that threat; I don’t want to hear about somebody else taking over his mind.
Actually there were plans for that game but got cancelled because someone didn't like how they changed the character from Terry to Damian, which idk why because before suicide squad everyone knew Amanda was dead meaning Terry can't be a clone of Bruce plus he's technically dead to the world. so if Amanda was alive and thinks bruce was then maybe we get terry
My only actual issue with how SSKTJL treated Batman was not how he was killed (I mean, I wasn't thrilled about that, but it feeds into my larger point), but rather that this was *Arkham* Batman.
As far as I know, Batman in the comics doesn't have feats like Arkham Batman in terms of his efficiency with solving a problem on the scale that Arkham Batman does.
Knightfall, Court of Owls, War of Jokes and Riddles, City of Bane, and so on. All of these citywide threats that mainline DC Comics Batman has encountered have taken a couple of days, if not weeks to resolve.
Arkham Batman retook Gotham in one night TWICE within the span of 5 years, technically 3 times if you include his entire career from Origins to Knight. In Arkham City, it was a smaller portion of Gotham, but it was still something like three or four entire neighborhoods, and in Arkham Knight it was something like 3/4 of the entire city of Gotham, and Origins was about twice the size of the ground covered in City.
The point is, Arkham Batman faced entire armies, one of which was explicitly trained to counter him thanks to Jason, and they had heavy artillery and ordinance. Arkham Batman took them down in ONE NIGHT all three times.
All before he got the fear toxin upgrade.
Based on Arkham Batman's feats, there is absolutely no way in hell the Suicide Squad should have stood a chance. Hell, Assault on Arkham had all 4 playable members of the Suicide Squad AND 3 other people and they still got folded like omelets. Sure, it's not canon anymore, but at it was at the time and it showed that even without the enhanced suit from Arkham Knight or the fear toxin, the Suicide Squad was barely even a threat, yet somehow only 4 of them overcame Arkham Batman. Even if he's not really Arkham Batman, and is just a clone or something, he was close enough to the real thing that none of those 4 should be alive if he were bloodlusted like he's supposed to be in-game.
From just their first encounter with Batman in this game, divorced from prior entries, None of them have anything other than their massive amounts of plot armor to justify Why he doesn't kill them on the spot, as they were spillit up, like he was about to do with Harley at the end of the encounter until flash, interrupted him and got captured instead.
What if I told you this wasn’t Arkham Batman & just a brainiac clone of the OG & that the real Batman breaks out of brainiacs ship in a future update ??
@@oneida3523doesn't sold me on the game, i rather play the old Arkham games and beat the living crap out of one poor dude
@@oneida3523The clones arguably make the story worse. Live service stories tend to not be great in these types of games. If they wanted to make a good live service story, they should have just taken the Telltale route, and gone one hero at a time, develop them out, and let the player choose if they live or die if they truly wanted to go live service. Otherwise they’ve just set it up for either the most obvious twists, or mediocre continuations.
Batman and WW should have swapped places where Batman's death should have hit a lot more harder and then Harley's reaction would have been the same way she did with WW
I will like that more than what garbage we got plus it make more sense too, because batman is one of the two who didn't trust Brainiac, the 2nd one is WW, so right not have both of them alive oh wait the suicide squad won't be needed because batman and WW just stop each hero with easy, huh seems like the story is just bad
@@alexjackyperson101if Batman and Ww were together they still would have had a hard time. Remember Ww was trying to save them up until the flash told her they had to die.
Batman could have flipped with WW and it would have been fine.
Or they could have been a duo where WW died to Superman still and had Batman either lose to Superman or the group of them.
They just didn’t utilize him enough
@@trueterror3099i mean fuck batman. The only thing i like about this game is the fact that batman fans are angry about this shit because it was about time you felt the way everyone else did for once. But you don't seem to have learnt anything from this instead your coming up with ways were batman's still been stroked at the expense of the other JL. How about a game were it's superman who isn't mind controlled or evil for once and has to stop the league at the end? How about the flash? How about green lantern? Why motherchuckin batman all the damn time. Do you lot not get tired of the endless about of stories were the mentally ill guy in the bat costume is stroked at the expense of the rest of the league?
Some marketing exec decided connecting this to the Arkham-verse continuity would make it sell a few % points higher. That's where they f'd up. DC has so many versions, fans don't quibble over ones that don't make sense. I just find it odd they had the license for the entire DC roster but decide to center on a bunch of b-listers to attempt building a live service franchise. Suicide Squad would have totally made sense as a self-contained Elseworlds story.
"Harley had to get over her trauma with batman" O.o Harley was the Trauma, mass murderering GF of the joker, I could give a ratsbutts about her "Trauma", same as I don't care about the injuries a Drunk driver gets when they smash and kill a family with their drunk driving.
Exactly! And “trauma from Batman” what the hell is this? The joker fucked up more people then Batman ever could and he’s the reason Harley is the way she is today!
Looking back on it it’s very stupid how she can actually have the audacity to actually say all that shit to Batman in him final moments after helping the joker do god knows what to a lot of people that don’t deserve it. I mean what the hell?!
I blame sweet baby inc.
@@greyworld6242Harley was the most evil version of herself in the Arkhamverse including poisoning a little girl to death and getting her dad to self-delete, helped Joker dismember little children and sew their body parts at random, tortured Jason because she was jealous that Joker chose him over Harley as a sidekick. And she has the nerve to go on about trauma.
@@ultimamage3 Exactly!
I dont know were he came to this conclusion. The writers clearly did not have an understand about the arkhamverse, neither about Batman. Blaming the fans is just toxic.
Yeah, that comment side swiped me in the video
I’m fairly sure none of this controversy would have happened if this game wasn’t said to take place in the Arkhamverse. Everything with the story of Batman here goes against what Arkham Knight’s ending and final moments between Batman and his close ones meant
If they switched out batman for wonder woman having a retired bruce come out to stop the justice league after robin is killed having him give the suicide squad the means to kill them would have been the best way to pay homage to him
We don’t mind Batman dead or dying. What we don’t want is to see him disrespected.
This reminds me of something, Nomura said that if Sora stopped being the mc, we will never get a new number title, this is how important he is to kingdom hearts.
Also Arkham made you basically Batman, so you relate even more to Batman.
If the game wasn't set in the Arkham verse, it wouldn't have had all of this backlash end of story
Accurate
No lol it still would have
It already got some backlash because of how it looked but everyone joined on the hate bandwagon when they found out that this was set in the Arkhamverse and a few weeks after Kevin Conroy passed away.
It wouldn't have been as bad but it still would have been bad. Kevin Conroy's death is what in my opinion made the whole discourse worse. He was the definitive Batman for so many and it was just terrible that he died tragically right before one of his Batman died unheroically.
@@ricniks4619It's not a hate bandwagon if it's justified.
I'm leaning into the "they're clones" theory. Supermen surviving Kryptonite to the chest kinda proves that. Guess we'll find out in March...
They handled it so badly
Definitely explains the Last Jedi a bit more to me. Certain characters are liked by people because of what they stand for and how they're linked to their lives, so particularly when you stop following the characters journey only to see them changed later in some fundamental way it feels like whiplash, like betrayal because you aren't necessarily here to listen to a story teller, but to watch a fantasy and root for your hero. To turn that hero into someone they weren't feels like you aren't honouring the past even though from the writers perspective they're creatively building on the past because the past for the fans goes beyond the media itself and into their own lives.
Another good take
I watched BTAS with my dad as a little kid in the 90s. It was a big thing we bonded over and some of my favorite memories. When The Batman was in theaters, we got a whole theater to ourselves due to minor technical difficulties that caused the theater to cancel the showing after we bought our tickets.
A heroic sacrifice would have been all the tweaking the plot would have needed to redeem the game, from that aspect, as for the live service, grindy, everybody just shoots guns bs…well, that’s a different discussion 😮💨🤷🏻♂️
You said they understand arkham batman thats false because if they did he wouldnt be in this game. He died in arkham but if they wanted to bring him in and ignore that lore than he wouldnt have gotten taken over by brainiac thats for sure lmaoo
Man when I started watching superheroes I was too young to know or care to connect to these characters to be relatable. It was more inspiration for me
Im happy at least kevin Conroy's final portrayal of Batman wont be him getting shot in the face
Did he record voice lines for something else?
@@xxTeamKillerxxBatman from BTAS is (supposedly) coming back for Justice League: Crisis on infinite earths part 3 and Kevin Conroy is voicing him again
@@b1ackspid3r43 ahh.. thanks
@@b1ackspid3r43we don’t know that for a fact plus Bruce Timm said that He couldn’t do the voice of Batman in Batman the caped crusader by then
@@rydn_x I'm unsure about the Caped Crusader but it was confirmed that Conroy is returning for Crisis on infinite earths part 3
alright then, I would have had Wonder woman give Harley the lasso of truth, good little passing the responsibility torch kinda moment showing that in such dire circumstances, she recognizes that criminals like them are also warriors on the side of Earth. Harley uses it to tie up batman (was frustrating seeing him just get carried around treated like a non threat on a shoulder) and she gets some crazy closure from hearing batman say he regrets not being able to save the joker or something, give them a key to defeating Brainiac. Then he can do what Barry did, and ask for them to kill him. A fucking peptalk about saving the world from "our" Batman, hyping you up to kill superman and take down Brainiac. That would have at least made the death feel better to me. As it is... I'd go as far as to say it was tone deaf.
And I think that wonder woman's Lasso should have been a permanent upgrade to Harley's movement/anything else that used the grapnel gun she took. Every member getting at least one major upgrade through out the story from different moments, but from what I can tell, it being a live service looter shooter with coop made them too chicken to dole out gameplay changing upgrades to 1 character at a time. if so fine, give the rest Diana's shield, gauntlets, and sword or something. The upgrades in this game didn't look very meaningful to me, just plot armor devices/excuses.
I never thought id hear the words "what i dont think rocksteady understands is the batman fans" ... and agree with that statement
I remember getting the GameInformer magazine that came out for Arkham Asylum. With Joker in a stray jacket
Before that, I knew Batman from the Dark Knight & of course TAS. But I was super young during TAS, so Christian Bale was really the definitive Batman for me.
Until these Arkham games. Arkham Asylum blew me away & made me fall in love with DC from then on. Arkham City is in my top 5 story games of all time, I’ll never forget sitting there watching the end credits of Arkham City- listening to the score. Thinking about what I just played
Arkham Batman is MY Batman. Mark Hamill & Kevin Conroy were the original voices of them for me when I was a kid (TAS)- so them returning to play their respective roles REALLY made those games. It’s crazy how much these games mean to me, for my love of Batman truly began with these games.
I was shocked at how inoffensive I found the death scene after seeing all the vitriol for it. Like I was expecting much more goofs and stuff around it like Flash and Green Lantern
Benny you're so right. Had they concluded Batman with your idea, people would've been okay
I'm mean, I feel like even just giving Harley a single line afterwards to the effect of "That wasn't Batman. Bats would've thought of a way to stop me. That was just some thing that looked like him." would've softened the reception a lot.
She does. After shooting him she says that this wasn’t the Batman that she knew and that the real Batman would have wanted this. Even King Shark acknowledges that the only reason they were able to take down the other league members was because they were following Batman’s contingency plans.
Bruh.
@@LivPlayerJThey weren't following his plans though. Flash they defeat with Luther's speed force tech modified by toyman. Green Lantern they beat with Batman's yellow lantern tech but they weren't told by Batman about how to use it. When they encounter the recording of Batman they fast forward through everything he says and then don't learn anything new before the Batman boss section starts.
@@pacmonster066 The speed force tech was shown in the batcave during Bruce’s contingency speech so it’s safe to assume he at the very least played a part in developing it. The yellow lantern tech was also Batman’s idea regardless of whether he told them how to use it or not. Without they wouldn’t have been able to defeat Green Lantern. He also says in his recording that the only way to defeat Batman is to work together as a team and trust each other as well as rely on their skills which the squad does. The only one that the Suicide Squad beats without Batman’s plan is Superman and even then they had to use Batman’s rewritten DNA to modify the kryptonite so that they can actually hurt Superman. Even if he didn’t willingly help modify the kryptonite he did still play a major part in the defeat of every single Justice League member that the squad fought.
@@LivPlayerJ You're not getting it. They didn't listen to or follow his plans. Because Batman was indirectly involved in how they defeated the members *after the fact* does not mean they followed his plans. If I'm having a computer problem, end up solving it on my own, then later look up a guide and find out many of the things I did are in that guide, I don't then credit the person I didn't watch for solving my problem.
And did you really just say "teamwork" is Batman's idea?
As far as the Batman problem I've heard a few solutions the two i gravitate toward is Arkham Batman filling the role of Wonder Woman honestly it's so perfect if you wanted this to be the end of that specific versions story and really it should've been the main character of the series getting the treatement of a character we have no attatchment to, we don't know Arkhamverse WW I really don't understand why they had her as teh last survivor character especially when she hardly contributes anything plotwise she's just kind of there to be cool and get a sad heartfelt death. Which is also weird because why do the squad care? They didn't care about any of the other members but anyways that's a side tangent.
But also I think a lot of people can agree that finally seeing an evil nothing held back version of Batman is interesting and terrifying so the other would be extremely simple...Don't have this be the Arkhamverse hell there's absolutely no reason for this to be in that world considering all the blantant retcons: Deadshot, Harley's character, etc.
The funny thing is I kinda liked the Halo TV show. They said it was in an alt timeline, so whatever, but I'm also the kinda guy who plays games to have fun and not give a shit if my team loses
I wasn't bothered by what happened to Batman and the JLA one bit. Probably because how modern entertainment seems driven to mock every hero from my childhood to the point of ruin. Spider-Man, Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, even Superman, have all been reduced to gross interpretations o only their follies that this is the norm now.
Why Comicstorian looks like the Giga Chad Meme
I actually would rather kill off Batman than not but my problem
Is the lack of backstory and no real gravity to the death of Batman. As a huge Arkham fan I just wanted a more complete story rather than Batman turns bad then shoots him in head. What was Batman doing W Justice league ect. Maybe if we get scenes in the future it might help but imo it’s just the fact that they gave the death zero purpose.
I think it would’ve been awesome to have cyborg be the member that got taken over rather than Batman. He could’ve had the same role, and also been a little bit more of a threat because he could hack your upgrades, weapons, and etc.
17:13 well Benny like…you forgot the part where the e story wasn’t written all that good. I think a lot of it could’ve been forgiven over time if the story was actually told in a good way. Hunting down Master Chief was the least of that stories problems, let alone the fact John Locke meets Chief once, and Chief whoops his ass, and then it’s over
The fact that Jamison Locke got a couple good punch in on Master Chief was hard to believe given how much more training and field experiences Master Chief had over Jamison Locke. I do give them prop for trying something new with bringing Jamison Locke in from Halo Nightfall to be a playable character and Edward Buck from ODST as one of his squad mates even if the story did not go as well as the gameplays.
Remember the 2013 E3 reveal trailer, don't.🙃
For me I don't have a problem with it because I take it as like another comic/iteration of the character. And I get the "Why do they have to use Arkham Batman." If I do remember correctly Arkham Knight had plenty of Easter Eggs for the Justice League in the Arkham World. So, I am sure they wanted to make a hero game with the Justice League involved in some way and decided why not Suicide Squad has to kill them (great concept imo).
- I think the only problem that I have is that you don't see Batman a TON. He basically just talks trash the whole time and telling Brainiacs ppl what to do.
- Maybe they wanted to add Arkham Batman to the game is so than it brings ppl in and it will add A LOT of shock value when you see what they had planned for him. But, Rocksteady didn't expect how the fans would react. (Like Benny said.)
- And if Arkham Batman HAS to die im glad it's Harley because of the history between each other and besides in Arkham City DLC and Arkham Knight, Harley was TRYING SO HARD to kill Batman for killing the Joker.
- 21:05 Both ideas are awesome. Maybe in a future season that do something like this maybe.
- To be fair the story isn't complete and it will finish probably in December of this year. So this basically chapter 1 of the story that Rocksteady wants to tell. And if they want the REAL Arkham Batman to die than they have plenty of time (imo) to give him a send off that everyone would be happy with.
So what your saying is people are paying 70-100 dollars for a gane thats not complete and leaves you with horribly written cliffhanger?
@@soraceant Basically yeah just like Marvel's trash Avengers game but this game being a tad better since it has some actual personality behind it.
it’s just not a game that should’ve been related to the arkham titles, it was obviously shilled out by big execs who will hire anyone now. the industry standard has gone down, especially in recent years. i refuse to by video games now because of it, and i’m really hoping on a video game crash like 1983. we need good video games, and we need good art. you can’t do that without a lack of time and a big team, or else you lose the “art” side of video games.
@@soraceant Well, it's a live service game like Destiny and that when an update comes out it usually adds to the story. So what the game is now is basically the introduction/chapter 1.
@@jolyproductions Ppl will have to stop buying video games for that to happen. But not everyone has the same opinion as you do and not everyone is on the internet. It's like the 2k sports games and ppl getting mad about the currency prices. And ppl say that ppl need to stop buying the currency for the companies will understand but it never happens.
So here's a thought... I never played the Batman games. My Batman was the comic version. My god I read it faithfully for thirty years. Well I never played AS Batman. I read his books. I read counter to what you pointed to how he always came out on top. No. He failed. Alot. He would go to save almost every one of his villains from themselves. And fail. He would go out night after night to save everyone. And fail. And yet he kept trying because no one else would. For me I don't relate the baan himself but his struggle to sacrifice all to save everybody and still fail. Yet he never gives up. Never stops. This is a core tenant in my life. Never give up. My will can keep me going always.
I got no meat in this game as batman is one of my childhood heroes. As he is with many of us for different reasons. Batman would never give in easily not would he be an easy kill. He is in essence the absolute definition of will. To portray him in any other way quite simply isn't Batman. Just as the complaints on the sniderverse batman killing were valid so are these. Put plainly batman would have forecasted the challenges he faced her and would have been prepared. It's the inconsistency I think that most people hate. You can't change a core tennent of the character without a backlash because changing it drastically alters who the character is.
Personally, I think fans are the real problem. For everything. They don't want anything changed and need it to stay how they feel it should be. And when it is changed and stuff happens that they didn't want or think of, then the people making it are the bad ones cause they, as the fans, know how it actually should go.
With Halo for me, I didn't want Master Chief back after 3. I felt 3 gave him a real ending and Halo should have brought in new people to continue the universe. And I felt the same after 4, it just wasn't as good of an ending for him. Then 5 just... why?
The “i throw the boomerang” is funny as hell imo 😂
For the next game, this will be a great title to motivate the fans:
[ You Kill the Suicide Squad ]
I hope your theory is right, it just vibes so well with the plot and comic book logic in general 😅. I'm hoping Kevin Conroy was able to have pre-recorded dialog before his passing, so that even if his Batman didn't get the heroic death, he at least comes back a hero even if not the focus of the game. I also really hope WW comes back, as this was one of my fav depictions of her character. I'm really curious to see how much of the multiverse can be expolored as this game continues.
While I absolutely respect your opinion and I can kinda understand your point of view I think it goes much deeper then this.
Like you mentioned in the video I don't think they actually killed the real justice league members and they were just clones (I just don't know what kind of weird explanation they will have for Wonder Woman if she ever returns if she doesn't come back it will fit their narrative perfectly)
Back to main point while I understand people relating to Arkhamverse Batman it goes beyond it, it's the shady behavior Rocketsteady had this entire time ever since the game came out just to list a few
1) The woke agenda the game pushes I don't want keyboard warriors to attack me so I won't go into further details
2) some of the writers attacking the fans/youtubers and even IGN for daring to have a negative opinion about the game, they mentioned how dare the fans claim they don't know what Kevin Conroy wanted for the character since they worked with him over 10 years or even bringing him up in the first place yet they used him in the game promotion for months hypocrisy at its finest, it also doesn't help when one of the game writers makes fun of the character and say "the poor white billionaire died and the fans are sad oh no" so much love for the fanbase and the character it's amazing really...
3) the entire mess that happened during the early launch of the game to the players that purchased the deluxe edition and the poor "refund" they gave to those players
4) not giving early copies to players/big companies to review the game I guess they knew their product wasn't good in the first place
5) Gameplay and not good enough storytelling (ngl it had potential but they messed it up)
6) there is the Batman issue of course that you mentioned but even if they used him "properly" I doubt the damage they already did could have been avoided
7) deleting negative reviews on steam to make the game looks like a success is beyond pitiful and shady the company loses any trust it has gained with the Arkhamverse fanbase through the years so no reason for the fans to trust them again with any further plans they have in the future for the game
Most of those points make no sense.
@@summersheild4140 no sense? They are stated facts that actually happened the last 2 weeks... If you think all those points didn't contribute to the game reception you are out of your mind
@@summersheild4140 care to explain how?
Benny made a great point about having it as a bonding experience does anyone remember in the 90s when Batman the animated series was out they had these cool looking cards it was more like scenes from the show and comics and a story on the back. we would collect those growing up I found them a couple years ago after he passed. Great memories great video man
Killing Batman isn’t the issue. It’s the steps they took to kill Batman. This is Arkham Batman. The one you controlled and know exactly what he’s capable of. How does he lose the way he lost? It just doesn’t line up. That’s where the disrespectful feeling comes from. This was our character who broke Jokers control, willed away Titan. They could have kept the game the same way except that cutscene during the Batman mission shows him get the upper hand, stop, fight Brainiac long enough for the Suicide Squad to restrain him, and then ask Quinn to kill him before the gun goes off. Would’ve been way better received
Here's my biggest problem. This is *Arkham* Batman. A batman who has fought 2 of the 4 Squad members before. Both in Arkham City. (Ignoring the fact that Deadshot in that game is not the same person which is so weird). Faught through the Asylum. Pretty much dismantled Arkham City, fighting through the major players of his Rogue's Gallery in one night, and dont get me started on the shit in Arkham Knight. Each game taking place in the span of one night.
Long story short, Arkham Batman folds the Suicide Squad. Especially if he's willing to kill.
A lot of peoples'/s connection to Batman was his ability or overcome overwhelming odds, through diligence, hard work, intelligence and preparation, etc. In short he showed us what could be achieved by being our best selves. This connection was strengthened by the fact that behind all the tools and equipment he's ultimately just human.
For him to be taken out by a group of people who are effectively the opposite of that just feels wrong.
The name of the game is called kill the justice league what u think was gonna happen also its about the suicide squad not batman cause thats the only character people butt hurt over. would u of rather they killed everybody besides batman would that of been better for you??
@@vagabond1845dude. Calm down. This is a 10 hour long 70-100 dollar always online live service game with a day 1 fully functional cash shop. It's not really a gem to cherish, regardless of the story's quality.
Don't know why you wanna be a Twitter person, but I think this would be more digestible of this wasn't set in arkhemverse and just a different universe justice league being killed
If batman would have had a heroic death makes way more sense than what they did.
Back when I was younger. My Family got Arkham Asylum. But, I never played it well since I was a little shit, and no one bothered to help me. Then Arkham City wasn't rated for everyone, so I never got to play it. But once I was able to play Asylum. I'll tell you. I fell in love with it. Then I got Knight and I fell in love with it the Most because of the Predator Sections and the combat. Then after 100% completing it over and over and over and actually planning how I would get every Riddler trophy and beat the Riddler before the Game even finished. Yea. I quite seriously had tons of fun. Then I got Origins and oh my god the Electric gloves made things even more Fun! Basically, I grew up with the Arkham games. As slow as it took. Seeing the Suicide squad kill the Justice League. I just ask. "Why? Why the Arkham Batman?" It could have been another Batman. And that was my thought process. Until I was basically told. It's the Arkham Batman. I will likely never play this game for one tired of Live service games and two. I can't see a decent story in this game. The Flash what I'll say was the Bes Part. But besides his dialogue. I don't see myself ever getting past his quipping. Especially hearing how the League gets captured
I think people “identify” with Arkham Batman because most of us played as him for well over 100 hours.
Wonder Woman had Batman’s role because he’s a rich white man and she’s a strong woman, so naturally you can’t make him the hero.
This game is a monument to corporations, greed and woke ideology. 20$ for a single skin?! For a 70$ game?!
No mention of George Cloonies Batman lol I’m sure they have a fan somewhere
Rob from ComicsExplained told me this morning, George Clooney was his favorite... I dont know if he was messing with me or not... but theres that lol
@@comicstorianmaybe he like nipples🤷🏾♂️
I love the George cloony's batman movie. I saw it millions of times as a kid.
My boss's favorite.
@@Bufftoys me too
This is just the "The Last of Us: Part 2" situation all over again and the point still stands. It's not that Batman died, he's died plenty of times, it's how he dies that's the problem everybody has. Especially coming off the heels of Kevin Conroy's death, it's just exacerbating the entire thing.
I remember how people hated on Batman Arkham Knight for almost all of the same things (in addition to hating the story because of the Jason reveal and how everyone figured it out before the release of the game and how the game overuses the Batmobile), yet now they praise it and are using it as ammo to hated on SS: KtJL.
Arkham knights story is still very much hated lol everything besides the tank shit and the story have been loved ss ktj completely sucks in every way
@@theotherguy21 Tell that to all the people praising it while using it as a comparison to SS KtJL, they are acting as if the game was always the pinnacle of Batman games in every single aspect, the hypocrisy is insane.
@@unversedhero6028 I know right. Lot of revisionism going on right now.
@@theotherguy21 ssktjl has great gameplay, attention to detail, graphics, and humor (sometimes), its not a complete failure.
@@unversedhero6028 Yes. They hated the story and absolutely everything about it. The tank sections were just the icing on the cake. They continued to claim that Batman was acting out of character.
@Comicstorian, while some of us appreciate you trying to play devil’s advocate, I just can’t agree with most of the points you have given if you see things from a developer’s point of view, it’s not that they “do not understand the fans”, its more along the lines that they don’t care what they do with what they have at hand, as they have had a long time to develop their games, as well as had good funding and even resources, but their end results with the Arkham Knight game and then the Suicide Squad game, it just doesn’t have the same heart as the first couple of games they made, and now it feels like they all they just want to do is make money, with how they made this last game a live service game and all.
I hate how lazy Rocksteady has been since Arkham Knight, because with Arkham Asylum and with Arkham City, you saw the great efforts and dedication they had towards making such great overall games, because those games are not perfect and each have their own issues, but when they were being made they didn't lie to fans, such as when they did with Arkham Knight's interviews and FAQ regarding the Knight himself, where they kept lying about him not being Jason but then ultimately using him anyway, and not only that but then they forced the Batmobile down people's throats to play Arkham Knight, when what most people enjoyed from the previous games, was how Batman himself played with his gadgets and variations between the stealth missions or fights against multiple thugs, which made a somewhat satisfying mix of gameplay, but with Arkham Knight you use the freaking Car/Tank so much that it becomes boring and monotone, because you are very limited to what you can do with the vehicle itself, and its not like you can take the car with you for when you have to do missions indoors and stuff, so that's why most people didn't even think to upgrade the freaking car whenever you got upgrade points, as everyone thought that the upgrades for the car were mostly for endgame or whatever, but in the middle of the story you have to fight so many other tanks and crap, where even the Deathstroke bossfight was in a tank battle too, that if you didn't upgrade the freaking car when you had the chance you would either need to get good like I did, or you were stuck in that save kind of like almost all of my work acquaintances, and the way they should have handled it instead, was that when you levelled up or whatever, that not only would you get upgrades for Batman himself, but that you would also get dedicated points for the car/tank so that you wouldn't screw up like that, and then actually had a chance when you did the story.
The thing that pissed me off the most about Arkham Knight however, is how Rocksteady basically made the game for the next gen consoles, so you were forced to either buy an Xbox One or PS4 when the game came out, as while its true that the game had been also out for PC, since they decided to hand over the port to another group, the game was super bugged out and not optimized at all, which almost made it unplayable unless you had a super beefy gaming PC in order to run it, and while it was decent that they handed out refunds and stuff, and for the people that didn't request the refund they actually gave out the other games for free, which made me actually obtain the collection on PC with it not costing me a single dime, as I had all the games on my PS3 but then they gave me them for PC, I feel frustrated that they still allowed that to happen, and part of me thinks that they intentionally handled it that way, so that they would sell next gen consoles for the super crazy fans of Batman, and now with the whole Suicide Squad kill the Justice League fiasco, I can certainly see that there's no longer any passion or dedication for what they made or are making, with the way they allowed for Batman to betray everything that he lived for and sacrificed during the Arkham games, just to make the story more edgy and crap and because they are using the multiverse, they basically have an easy lazy way out, to fix all the crap they have done that have enraged the fans, and I don't plan to be involved in any of this any longer, which is why I refuse to get that game, and probably any future games Rocksteady decides to make, because they probably planned all the controversy so that people talked about their game, and they would make more sales with the whole thing, and eventually milk people for all their worth with DLCs and a bunch of other micro transactions since this is a live service game.
I had wondered if killing Batman in Suicide Squad and in the Batman Beyond comics. Was a weird way of honoring Kevin Conroy's death. Similar to how Mark Hamill retired as Joker, since his Batman has passed.
Kevin Conroy will also be in the full release of Multiversus
Except for likely most interactions with dlc characters.
Either they brought this universe back just to shoot its main character. Even if they reveal these are just flashclones Brainiac is using, it wpuld just be a copout
I just wanted an Arkhamverse Justice league game…I just hope they can bring back them right for that but idk
I totally agree on your take, I rather enjoyed the overall story and presentation of the game but felt that certain aspects of defeating justice league members felt rushed or underwhelming. I definitely would've preferred your tweak of Batman's role in the story and I do wish there had been some semblance of resisting mind control from Batman. The way I saw it, as sad as it may be, by the time Batman shows up in the game, hunting down innocents mercilessly, the Batman we've known across the Arkham games has practially already died. I can only imagine the mental anguish Bruce would feel at realizing all his actions under Brainiac's control. While Batman's death, along with other league members besides maybe Wonder Woman, could have been handled much better, what we got with Batman was a tragic mercy kill because I could not see Bruce recovering from all he had done.
They didn’t had to say it was in the Arkham verse. The reason why they set it on that universe is because it’s well known and overall liked. They knew Arkham Batman fans would buy it cause of that.
Loves your vids but I listen to them at work and they’re noticeably lower volume than a couple other RUclipsrs I watch. Maybe a bit of a boost would help 🙌
Thanks for mentioning that I thought it was my headphones adjusting to volume or something!
One of My best mates of ten years, we became best pals over assassins creed then led to him taking me to my first comic store cause I told him I love batman and got me my first batman comic
I feel this has nothing to do with killing the Arkamverse Batman. I think the reason why people are upset is because this is the last time Kevin Conroy voiced Batman (whom many beloved as the definitive Batman). Seeing this is how Conroy's body of work as Batman ends is very sad, and some people are having a hard time accepting it.
I feel like they didn’t turn Wonder Woman so they could so they could do the Superman vs Wonder Woman fight, so they could do the lasso scene and because there is a Wonder Woman game coming out likely within a year.
You're talking crazy comic man
The Halo issue was not that people saw themselves as the cheif or anything like that
The issue was that they hyped up this big Cheif vs Lock beef like it was gonna be an impressive thing
But when the game came out it was a big nothing burger even the skuffle they had in the game was pathetic
The entire thing came out to be a joke more or less and no one was laughing
It was a terrible decision but the reaction from the community wasn't because of emotional attachments
it was disappointment with how they handled the story after all the hype
The problem isn’t that Batman was killed, cuz that’s the title of the game, it’s how it was handled; how he was killed. Liked your take on how it should’ve been.
Rocksteady should have just set the game outside the Arkhamverse considering people were already not happy with how the game looked from leaks and teasers. With the final nail in the coffin being them confirming this was going to be set in the Arkhamverse where we are going to kill Batman and it ALSO being stated a few weeks after Kevin Conroy died with most getting the impression this will be his final work.
Batman fans are as bad as Star Wars fans. It's one game that has no effect on any other iteration of the character. And if Arkhamverse Batman is your Batman, you haven't been alive long enough to weigh in on who Batman is. And Halo is so overrated. The first game that gave you training wheels in the form of unlimited re-spawning. I have no attachment to MasterbChrif whatsoever, and I actually enjoy the show because the game character barely has a personality. Idc that they show his face. They aren't paying a well-known actor to not show his face. Grow up.
Replacing Wonder Woman for BatMan is the easiest. The hardest is having batman actually be a threat. Truthfully, i dont think alot of people would be mad if batman wasnt such a push over (along woth the rest of the league). Bur ofcourse, thats not to mention any Elseworld characters they intend to bring later on. Lastly, let everyting happen as it did, but atleast give us glimpses as to what happened since thw last game. Tie up loose ends kind of thing
Genuine question, why this video isnt on the other channel?
Bro they have been making batman worse and worse in new media. In almost every else world story batman gets incapacitated or killed immediately. Im sick of it.
I can’t wait for Marvel’s Thunderbolt: Kill the Avengers, where the beloved Avengers are killed off unceremoniously and Insomniac Spiderman is killed by Screwball.
why is the audio so soft on this vid? I had to crank up a booster just to hear this
The problem is they put a sad death to Wonder Woman who does nothing except save once the Squad when Flash did twice
And Kevin Conroy is dead and they use him like this ???? Also the writers never read a comic is Baby Sweet Inc
Tbh it wasn't just Batman. It was all the heroes dying with no respect for the characters. They even killed Tim offscreen for literally no reason. You could tell the studio was trying hard to be edgy without realizing you can still respect your characters while also having a rude sense of humor
Hell Idk if dick or Jason is even alive too, they just killed tim offscreen, so make me think that they just killed dick, Batwoman, Jason, batgirl/oracle and the birds of prey(huntress and other hero, its canon to the Arkham universe because of a Easter egg in Arkham Knight) offscreen
batman really does seem underutilized, i wonder if there was some scheduling stuff with Kevin Conroy
that would make most of the changes you wouldve wanted basically impossible to do
I would have switch the role with Batman and Wonder Woman have him support the suicide squad from the shadows find the way breaking the mind control with his contingency plans and switch gameplay to him when he fights Superman.
Batman could have easily been replaced with nearly any character in fiction and it still would have been a bad scene but because it was tied to The Arkham Batman that scene would naturally affect everything that falls under the same tree and that weirdly enough includes people's feelings. Most people probably only bought the game in the first place just because of The Arkham batman and the fun they had while playing as the character which probably amplified the negative reaction.
Anyway, I get were you’re coming from with this video but the suicide squad game is just a bad game in general for multiple reasons and If I had to describe this game in a few words it would be a “waste of potential” because the game could have easily been good with just a few minor changes and that is before doing anything major.
Truthfully, I don’t even care that the justice league died but my problem with it is that the story itself didn’t know how to handle their deaths. The game itself never fully committed to having any of the characters' deaths be funny, serious, or even respectful.
One example is that Captain Boomerang should have actually pissed on the Flash in the game because the idea itself wasn’t really funny or respectful but they stopped right before doing it, so it failed at even being a serious moment and the entire game is like this.
Also, i the same idea on fixing the story part were the suicide squad just did the Batman cave mission first but i just didn’t add the Superman part.
Happy Sunday.
I don't care what anyone says this is not a main Arkham game, may be set in a alternate Arkham timeline but this is not part of the main Arkham timeline
nah dude. if the writers know batman's character then they wouldve known batman would be out of the league if he disagrees with them and conducts his own contingency plan that actually as another backup plan. no, batman doesnt have to overcome everything and live, in fact i do agree that he should die in the game. but not the way that they did it. batman couldve been the only league member who wasnt brainwashed because he disagrees to go to brainiac's ship with open arms, them work witht he suicide squad to fight off the league and brainiac. then at some point he would have to sacrifice his own life in order to save the league and leave it all up to the squad to finish things up. that would be the best way to close off arkham batman's story while also making the squad the heroes of the story without disrespecting batman. ALSO batman never torments harley quinn in any of the arkham games. if anything he did her a favor of freeing her from joker. someone that she clearly regrets ever folowing in the game.
the writers either dont understand batman, or they're way too incompetent to come up with the proper storyline that doesnt disrespect the league. but seriously, if you play the game, you can literally feel that the writers are intentionally shitting on the heroes and making them all bumbling idiots while making wonder woman all high and mighty.
so no dude, this isnt just some nostalgia bullshit or character attachment, this is just plain bad writing thats it
Well, glad that you brought it up. You know the reason why Wonder Woman was choosen to be the one that wasn't corrupted and had taken the supporting role for the squad instead of Batman? It's because of Sweet Baby Inc. They hate white men to take a leading role or outshine other characters that aren't white. It's just how they write stories.
His theory actually started the buzz I’ve been seeing around about them coming back😂😂
I still can’t believe that they decanonized the Arkham suicide squad movie for this.
I am a fan of Batman. I’ve grown up with him since the early 80s to the mid 90s in comic book form, and then I watched and loved the Tim Burton interpretations, Batman TAS was a favorite, played the first Arkham Asylum game which was enjoyable but then fell off. The fact that they kill Batman the way they do didn’t really bother me and I don’t see why it would others. They’ll eventually retcon it I’m sure and this will only be seen as a noncanonical side story anyway.
I dont care that they killed the justice league or that Batman gets killed, the main problem is that Harley was allowed to execute him like that instead of giving him a cool death.
It's more how he was killed, I wouldn't mind if they killed him with a good story but it was terribly dome all around. I feel the writers didn't care about Canon for lots of things and this is what we got
The thing is for this they really did kill people's childhood and trust me I get it that phase is overused. The thing is here it fits cause after arkham knights it was left open kinda if batman was dead or not but we knew the secret of batman was out there was an ending and even if you wanted more you could be happy with the ending. So what did they decided to do they undid the ending brought him back just to kill him again and let one of the people responsible for his problems do it
One of my key criticisms of the Suicide Squad game is, why the sudden interest in trying to flip Harley Quinn into this weapon of vengeance who deals w/ her trauma by killing a corrupted Batman? Why did Rocksteady think that the way to go w/ Batman's character was to flip his role w/ Harley Quinn's in a poor effort to try to rehabilitate her character? Harley Quinn was/is a stomp-down villain, she's done horrible things to numerous people throughout her tenure as Joker's main squeeze. But it's like the writers/devs at Rocksteady chose to ignore all that, so that Harley comes across as a redeemed heroine, even though she's gone through no such storyline to redeem her while literally making her an unaware hypocrite. Even Netherrealm Studios did a FAR better job at attempting to redeem Harley's character, while keeping her self-aware of her past sins, than Rocksteady has.
I dont want him to win all the time, I just wanted him to given the respect he deserved.... Look man I respect you but this was sh*tiest take you had
I think the leaks might be a general WB problem because MK1 went through the same thing
Quite right what you say, but still I love when Batman can fall. He can't be too perfect, which makes him more relatable to me.
Also, been playing multiple game of different universe and you are wrong about Halo 5 on one thing. True they were hunting down Master Chief and his team because they deserted to hunt down Cortana, that he found out was still alive during a mission, as he wanted to see her again (their relationship his more that of a lovesick puppy wanting his mistress back).
Why is the volume of the video so low??
The thing with that alternative way to have Batman die they could theoretically patch that in they wouldn’t even need new lines from Kevin Conroy. Although that’s just a pipe dream then again it might end up being completely unnecessary if the leaks are true
The problem is that RS wanted to connect the game to the Arkhamverse. It’s like grabbing Nolan’s Batman and using him instead of batflleck. His story, his ark, his journey was done. The Batman as we knew him was done. Coming back to life, would mean to face a lot of issues. The power behind Batman is not knowing what he is. If he has powers or not, if he is watching or not. Knowing that he is just a simple human, breaks his myth. The final moments of Arkham Knight, showing us an “nightmare Batman” works so well because the Batman is dead. The world saw the mansion blow up. So encountering him in the night, would mean facing a ghost, truly what the myth was all about.
Batman choosing death instead of being a puppet, just as Harley says it’s what the character would prefer and accept thankfully the bullet. But the problem is that, that precise Batman was done. Just because there’s a Superman, doesn’t mean that he’ll go back to the world of living.
Also, killing robin was a shitty move. As if they hated the games that gave them the opportunity to make this game
Everyone acting like life is sunshine’s and rainbows 😤😂
Total tangent. But that mech Tshirt your wearing is awesome, whered you get that :)
Another example of fans hitting back but without a comic or game series is the last of us part 2
Playing as someone other than Joel & Ellie and having the characters you play on the first game become the villain had everyone raging