100% reight ,if you charge r12 in Tesla you will safe up to 40% energy, the reason is the variable dc compressor will rund max up to 50% of max speed means 1,5kw instead of 3kw by start , also POE oil is mixable with R12
Here's one for you.....look up an invention called a Smart VOV Variable Orfiice Valve by Nartron for cars. I spoke to the inventor who sold it to Nartron for the aftermarket. Packaged by 4 Seasons, Standard, Napa. Will help get a 134a down 7-14 reduction in temps.
Yes, I used to use them back in the 90s. They’ve been around forever. Best suited for stop and go traffic desert driving . Especially my clients who like to go hunting in the high mountains where it was very hot and they’re climbing slowly dirt roads in 100° plus weather. But you must actually read follow that little*in the small print to do exactly what they recommend to be done Otherwise it might work at first, but cost you a compressor later on Unfortunately technicians don’t like to read
@@coldfinger459sub0 What was indicated? Still have the original directions, & never saw anything, other than using small brass sleeve over the end on some GMs to shield it from refrigerant falsely tripping the compressor cutout switch I think.....
@@chrispompano I took on a part in it actually have a Spring with a metering device inside. Oh, so under spring tension I guess somehow it was just metering refrigerant and had spring tension performing some sort of control . My first one I installed was on one of my customers who owns a body shop was a hunter and would go off roads on dirt roads and crawl at very slow speeds in the summertime . After installing it, he said his air-conditioning has never been so cold. I just idle speed stat stop in Slow crawls. . That was my very first experience using the device
Assuming a system is properly designed for either, what exactly makes R134a less efficient than R12? From everything I read, R134a actually can absorb more BTUs of heat per pound in the evaporator than R12 can. If I remember correctly, R12 can absorb about 70 BTUs per pound while R134a can absorb about 85 BTUs per pound. So does the efficiency loss just come down to more power being required to pump R134a due to its lower evaporating pressure and higher condensing pressure or is there some other variable at play here such as differences in thermal conductivity? I've actually found studies showing that R134a is more efficient than R12 under most operating conditions, so maybe R134a is better than we are giving it credit for and got an undeserved bad reputation from people doing halfass retrofits and using it in systems designed for R12?
It’s btu per lb. But they made it better by using better condensed and evaporator efficiency that was not used back in the r12 days They use more efficient compressor that were not available back in the r12 days. They use much thinner viscosity oil less friction then back in the R12 days
Yah.. There is a reason that oem made things the way they did. Lol Just delt with evap on a ford edge. Two aftermarkets.. Both different. Atleast the last one fit 90% and actually had more fins. Never heard back from other company.
All the other 400 series Refrigerants that you see on the table are also used on trucks and vans for the freezers for Frozen Food and the trailers on semi’s
what about R152A, that air duster for cleaning computers . i have had friends that use it and it works really good , its really close to R12 as far as i can tell. i was just wondering what your thoughts would be on the R152A
It does work it is a refrigerant. Getting to charge correct is the problem many guys get it working and then six months or a year later their compressor burns out. The ones who don’t are the lucky ones it’s a gamble a roll of the dice. But if they wanted to they could design a system and correctly use the right amount of lubricant the right type of lubricant with evaporators condensers and compressors that were designed to use 152 that would be good. So that’s entirely up to an individual to make that decision the winners are happy with a smile on their face the losers are changing a compressor and if it totally launched an eight up and ground up the metal flake in the compressor then they’re changing a condenser receiver drier expansion valve and having to flush the whole entire system
Wow the image on the flir.. I have the cellphone version. Its nice but the resolution definitely not the same.nor price. Lol Cheap ones not worth the plastic made from.
I own 23 old cars only 2 of them does the ac work its hot in alabama 11 years ago I worked in an independent mercedes shop the cars came in and he retro fitted them from R12 to R134 the customets were never happy with the ( you have to be moving for them to cool statement) the compressors blew up often we would dump out the R12 oil refill with R134 dye that awful machine on wheels recover old freon madness the good ole days pull into a service station the dude would grab a can of R12 a whip hook it up shake the can while you rev the engine and in 5 mins your off the car cooled great all summer. so now ive got to figure a way to fix my old vintage cadillacs with the broken programmers that wint swap from heat to ac and never tell the blower to switch on. i can hot wire the blower motor a four seasons valve to shut heater flow off in summer but what to do about getting cold ac that wont fail ive been thinking of using 134 equipment with R12 and 134 orings on new pipes with oem condensor and evap and oem expansion valve abd new dryer bottle? and sanden compressors any advice is aporeciated.
If you have humidity I think Alabama does I think I’ve heard that complaint before retrofitting to 134 is not a great situation you will lose your lower temperature to get below the dewpoint on hot days In 80% two 90% humidity If you’re not concerned with vintage original looks you could go to Vintage Air and order one of the new parallel flow condensers As for repairing your climate control head center on those old Cadillacs that was something I only played with as a child when my dad taught me how to work on him he used to rebuild them he used to work for General Motors when he was young with those Cadillacs. Father used to get the warranty exchanged parts they were going to junk he would bring them home and rebuild them and then resell them in his own business Yes you will have to figure out a completely different way of bypassing and controlling everything in the Cadillac All depends whether you care about the original vintage look or not A better condenser and adding some electric fans to a pressure switch that engages them does wonders for our 134 retrofits The only reason I want 34 retrofit compressors would burn up because none of the technicians were qualified educated or trained or had the basic knowledge of how to do it correctly. On my old restoration cars that I’ve done for customers 30 years ago in their collection that were retrofitted from the old York‘s and Tecumseh in A6 Frigidaires. Are still running fine today even the one little Honda can’t remember the name of the compressor manufacture but even OEM and aftermarket compressor manufactures said never retrofit it over because they kept burning out compressors and did not work right. I did not use automotive refrigerant oil I did not use the weight viscosity that was recommended in the automotive business I come from commercial to and I did not retrofit it over the way guys were taught out of magazines or sitting in a few hour class so the units would still work decades after when they were notorious for blowing up and blowing icy cold by not following the field procedures that were taught in the automotive trades
hey i have a special cadillac 1976 seville the heat and air do not work on the heat a manual valve is ok and the vintagd programer imfamous blower inop problem i direct wire it to full speed using a light switch that usually allows the system to swap from hot to cold and blow air from floor to dash on the cheap 1rst it had smog pump w large A6 compressor megah beavy engine power ro bing setup i ordered a bracket to replace the compressor with a modern sanden unit that will fit were the smog pump was now the vintage condensor and evaporater are still in the car and i have cans of R12 should i fit that together and cross my fingers or buy the classic air 1974 nova kit and refill a 134 aftermarket system with R12 of course swapping the compressor oil out to R12 oil
Problem is if you still have the original hoses you have all that money and good R12 that you may possibly lose due to leaks if the hoses are still old. But if you change the hoses I would stay with the R 12 you gain a few degrees of cooling in hot weather
I forgot to mention. I would say 80 to 90% of all retrofits to our134 are kind of done improperly so the results are not very good. But it does work especially at temperatures lower than 80° not much difference if everything is mechanically sound in all cooling related components are working at peak 100% efficiency like fans plus the thermal expansion valve Doing a retrofit on an old car one of the best things you can change especially if it’s slightly damaged or you think of questionable reliability is change the condenser to a more modern day micro channel parallel flow condenser But then you run into the problem most people don’t know when you do that you have to greatly reduce the refrigerant charge because they have a very small internal volume but they have a extremely high rate of heat dissipation that’s what makes them better And micro channel condenser systems are extremely sensitive to exact refrigerant charge it’s very easy to overcharge them The old systems in vehicles from 1970s in earlier were very forgiving to being under charged or especially over charged a little Today’s vehicles with micro channel evaporators in micro channel condensers are extremely sensitive to even a little bit of overcharging on a hot day will greatly increase the pressure So somebody without a lot of experience would not know this and 90% of technicians don’t know this and even when they do they don’t know how to properly determine the proper charge
I would really love to do that and send the car in to an air conditioning shop for them to diagnose the problem LOL 😂 Always wondered if I sent 10 cars in to 10 mechanical shops filled with R410 how many parts would get replaced as part of their diagnostic . I would like to see the faces of the automotive technicians when they hook up their gauges with the air conditioning off and they have 250 psi showing on their low side and high side gauges. 🤔 Or when they started up in the low side is about 126 psi and because the condensers are so small show me small for R 410. The high side will probably be about 400+ psi if not higher on hot days it would instantly trip the transducers over pressure safety limit and cut off the compressor or if it had a pressure bypass blow off valve would vent the refrigerant to the atmosphere. In either case the automotive technician would think there’s defective parts causing the problem in many cases and change expansion valves or change compressor change condenser
100% reight ,if you charge r12 in Tesla you will safe up to 40% energy, the reason is the variable dc compressor will rund max up to 50% of max speed means 1,5kw instead of 3kw by start , also POE oil is mixable with R12
Here's one for you.....look up an invention called a Smart VOV Variable Orfiice Valve by Nartron for cars. I spoke to the inventor who sold it to Nartron for the aftermarket. Packaged by 4 Seasons, Standard, Napa. Will help get a 134a down 7-14 reduction in temps.
Yes, I used to use them back in the 90s. They’ve been around forever.
Best suited for stop and go traffic desert driving . Especially my clients who like to go hunting in the high mountains where it was very hot and they’re climbing slowly dirt roads in 100° plus weather.
But you must actually read follow that little*in the small print to do exactly what they recommend to be done
Otherwise it might work at first, but cost you a compressor later on
Unfortunately technicians don’t like to read
@@coldfinger459sub0 What was indicated? Still have the original directions, & never saw anything, other than using small brass sleeve over the end on some GMs to shield it from refrigerant falsely tripping the compressor cutout switch I think.....
@@chrispompano I took on a part in it actually have a Spring with a metering device inside.
Oh, so under spring tension I guess somehow it was just metering refrigerant and had spring tension performing some sort of control .
My first one I installed was on one of my customers who owns a body shop was a hunter and would go off roads on dirt roads and crawl at very slow speeds in the summertime .
After installing it, he said his air-conditioning has never been so cold. I just idle speed stat stop in Slow crawls. .
That was my very first experience using the device
If you mix them the pressure is not the average of the 2 materials it's the sum and that can really mess with pressures
Sometimes higher them both and you will have something called glide
Thanks for teaching us so much.
Excellent work. Love your channel and very knowledgeable guy
Thank you.
@@coldfinger459sub0 R290 is all you ever need. LOL
@@MichaelMantion true but we are not allowed to use it here .
Excellent explanation
Assuming a system is properly designed for either, what exactly makes R134a less efficient than R12? From everything I read, R134a actually can absorb more BTUs of heat per pound in the evaporator than R12 can. If I remember correctly, R12 can absorb about 70 BTUs per pound while R134a can absorb about 85 BTUs per pound.
So does the efficiency loss just come down to more power being required to pump R134a due to its lower evaporating pressure and higher condensing pressure or is there some other variable at play here such as differences in thermal conductivity?
I've actually found studies showing that R134a is more efficient than R12 under most operating conditions, so maybe R134a is better than we are giving it credit for and got an undeserved bad reputation from people doing halfass retrofits and using it in systems designed for R12?
It’s btu per lb.
But they made it better by using better condensed and evaporator efficiency that was not used back in the r12 days
They use more efficient compressor that were not available back in the r12 days.
They use much thinner viscosity oil less friction then back in the R12 days
Purdue University? fake study
Yah.. There is a reason that oem made things the way they did. Lol
Just delt with evap on a ford edge. Two aftermarkets.. Both different. Atleast the last one fit 90% and actually had more fins. Never heard back from other company.
AT 1:13 I couldn't take the bouncing and craziness anymore.
Yea that’s a bad one. Need to retake it . Now I have new camera
Comercial trucks and chill trailers use the 410
All the other 400 series Refrigerants that you see on the table are also used on trucks and vans for the freezers for Frozen Food and the trailers on semi’s
what about R152A, that air duster for cleaning computers . i have had friends that use it and it works really good , its really close to R12 as far as i can tell. i was just wondering what your thoughts would be on the R152A
It does work it is a refrigerant.
Getting to charge correct is the problem many guys get it working and then six months or a year later their compressor burns out. The ones who don’t are the lucky ones it’s a gamble a roll of the dice.
But if they wanted to they could design a system and correctly use the right amount of lubricant the right type of lubricant with evaporators condensers and compressors that were designed to use 152 that would be good.
So that’s entirely up to an individual to make that decision the winners are happy with a smile on their face the losers are changing a compressor and if it totally launched an eight up and ground up the metal flake in the compressor then they’re changing a condenser receiver drier expansion valve and having to flush the whole entire system
@@coldfinger459sub0 on old r12 car you have more room to be off a little any a 134a your taking big risk
Wow the image on the flir.. I have the cellphone version. Its nice but the resolution definitely not the same.nor price. Lol
Cheap ones not worth the plastic made from.
Interesting on why r12 to 134. I always knew it to be epa requirement to save the earth.
Chlorine molecule dissolves the ozone in the atmosphere
I own 23 old cars only 2 of them does the ac work
its hot in alabama
11 years ago I worked in an independent mercedes shop
the cars came in and he retro fitted them from R12 to R134
the customets were never happy
with the ( you have to be moving for them to cool statement)
the compressors blew up often
we would dump out the R12 oil refill with R134 dye that awful machine on wheels
recover old freon madness
the good ole days pull into a service station
the dude would grab a can of R12 a whip hook it up shake the can while you rev the engine and in 5 mins your off the car cooled great all summer.
so now ive got to figure a way to fix my old vintage cadillacs with the broken programmers that wint swap from heat to ac and never tell the blower to switch on.
i can hot wire the blower motor
a four seasons valve to shut heater flow off in summer
but what to do about getting cold ac that wont fail
ive been thinking of using 134 equipment with R12 and 134 orings on new pipes with oem condensor and evap and oem expansion valve abd new dryer bottle? and sanden compressors
any advice is aporeciated.
If you have humidity I think Alabama does I think I’ve heard that complaint before retrofitting to 134 is not a great situation you will lose your lower temperature to get below the dewpoint on hot days In 80% two 90% humidity
If you’re not concerned with vintage original looks you could go to Vintage Air and order one of the new parallel flow condensers
As for repairing your climate control head center on those old Cadillacs that was something I only played with as a child when my dad taught me how to work on him he used to rebuild them he used to work for General Motors when he was young with those Cadillacs.
Father used to get the warranty exchanged parts they were going to junk he would bring them home and rebuild them and then resell them in his own business
Yes you will have to figure out a completely different way of bypassing and controlling everything in the Cadillac
All depends whether you care about the original vintage look or not
A better condenser and adding some electric fans to a pressure switch that engages them does wonders for our 134 retrofits
The only reason I want 34 retrofit compressors would burn up because none of the technicians were qualified educated or trained or had the basic knowledge of how to do it correctly.
On my old restoration cars that I’ve done for customers 30 years ago in their collection that were retrofitted from the old York‘s and Tecumseh in A6 Frigidaires. Are still running fine today
even the one little Honda can’t remember the name of the compressor manufacture but even OEM and aftermarket compressor manufactures said never retrofit it over because they kept burning out compressors and did not work right.
I did not use automotive refrigerant oil I did not use the weight viscosity that was recommended in the automotive business I come from commercial to and I did not retrofit it over the way guys were taught out of magazines or sitting in a few hour class
so the units would still work decades after when they were notorious for blowing up and blowing icy cold by not following the field procedures that were taught in the automotive trades
Hello
t lech
Question
Where do you recycle r134a empty tanks?
Thank You for your videos.
American Refrigeration Supplies (ARS)
Baker Distributing
Johnstone supply
hey
i have a special cadillac 1976 seville the heat and air do not work on the heat a manual valve is ok
and the vintagd programer imfamous blower inop problem i direct wire it to full speed using a light switch
that usually allows the system to swap from hot to cold and blow air from floor to dash on the cheap
1rst it had smog pump w large A6 compressor megah beavy engine power ro bing setup
i ordered a bracket to replace the compressor with a modern sanden unit that will fit were the smog pump was
now the vintage condensor and evaporater are still in the car and i have cans of R12
should i fit that together and cross my fingers or buy the classic air 1974 nova kit and refill a 134 aftermarket system
with R12 of course swapping the compressor oil out to R12 oil
Problem is if you still have the original hoses you have all that money and good R12 that you may possibly lose due to leaks if the hoses are still old.
But if you change the hoses I would stay with the R 12 you gain a few degrees of cooling in hot weather
I forgot to mention. I would say 80 to 90% of all retrofits to our134 are kind of done improperly so the results are not very good.
But it does work especially at temperatures lower than 80° not much difference if everything is mechanically sound in all cooling related components are working at peak 100% efficiency like fans plus the thermal expansion valve
Doing a retrofit on an old car one of the best things you can change especially if it’s slightly damaged or you think of questionable reliability is change the condenser to a more modern day micro channel parallel flow condenser
But then you run into the problem most people don’t know when you do that you have to greatly reduce the refrigerant charge because they have a very small internal volume but they have a extremely high rate of heat dissipation that’s what makes them better
And micro channel condenser systems are extremely sensitive to exact refrigerant charge it’s very easy to overcharge them
The old systems in vehicles from 1970s in earlier were very forgiving to being under charged or especially over charged a little
Today’s vehicles with micro channel evaporators in micro channel condensers are extremely sensitive to even a little bit of overcharging on a hot day will greatly increase the pressure
So somebody without a lot of experience would not know this and 90% of technicians don’t know this and even when they do they don’t know how to properly determine the proper charge
So..... Filling my car with R410a would be a really good idea then?
j/k
I would really love to do that and send the car in to an air conditioning shop for them to diagnose the problem LOL 😂
Always wondered if I sent 10 cars in to 10 mechanical shops filled with R410 how many parts would get replaced as part of their diagnostic .
I would like to see the faces of the automotive technicians when they hook up their gauges with the air conditioning off and they have 250 psi showing on their low side and high side gauges. 🤔
Or when they started up in the low side is about 126 psi and because the condensers are so small show me small for R 410. The high side will probably be about 400+ psi if not higher on hot days it would instantly trip the transducers over pressure safety limit and cut off the compressor or if it had a pressure bypass blow off valve would vent the refrigerant to the atmosphere.
In either case the automotive technician would think there’s defective parts causing the problem in many cases and change expansion valves or change compressor change condenser