At least we know hax can beat hbox. This is one of the most compelling b0xx legality videos! despite it malfunctioning :( ... I hope for no issues on the future.
I think the point was rather that HBox let himself coach in a match against a guy with crippled hands, who's been out of the scene for a while and tries to come back with a controller that he's completely unfamiliar with.
I was there lol when hax had to forfeit against hbox cuz his controller was malfunctioning and they had to get a new console then the game had no memory card so I went to get a t.o to fix the game
It's really just playstyle dependent. The KO's are only a few lasers more than on other stages and the ability to move around and not die at 0 to up-throw rests are pretty nice. Hax has good enough movement that the space to laser and dash dance is probably the main appealing aspect. I couldn't speak for him though.
Dreamland isn't bad for fox. Kill confirms still work, puff has to chase you more, you are less likely to be killed at early percent when near center stage, and the top plat will always be a great tool to escape with.
Hax's controller started malfunctioning at some point during game 2. They tried a bunch of stuff like switching GameCubes, ports, and doing handwarmers to attempt to fix it, but it didn't work. You can see the issues come up again in Game 3 at about 16:18. After Hax respawns, you can see his controller flubbing inputs. It really sucks when shit like this happens, but the B0XX is still a work in progress and shit like this is bound to happen until it's perfected.
It wasn't Hax's controller that was bad, it was the EVO venue. Hundreds of other players in other games were having similar problems. It seemed to be effecting exclusively pad players and not controller players. Hence why most people in the melee community think it was just Hax's "own fault". EVO screwed him out of making potentially the sickest run of his life.
Lol @ blaming Evo for the b0xx malfunctioning. Pretty sure Hax is the only melee player that used a pad, and it's his own homemade pad at that. What exactly did evo have to do with it malfunctioning? They had gamecubes and crts, what exactly were they supposed to have? Evo had a lot of problems, but they didn't cause the b0xx to fail.
6:33 funny the different types of reaction they give even though both players did amazing things, just like they wanted to see an specific player to lose instead of seeing a good match between them... And is sad (at least for me) to see the comments here complaining about HBox ledge camp (which is undeniable) but seem to completely ignore Hax's laser camp... (and anyone can say it was just a response to Jiggly's camp, but that's not true in all the cases...)
lol at the people who only see one side of Hbox matches, yes Hbox camps the ledge but he usually does this because most foxes just spam lasers at him from the other side of the map. I'm not saying one side is either right or wrong for this but a lot of foxes most notably Sfat play just as boring if not more boring against Hbox. Also have you watched the Hbox VS Wizzy set I think Wizzy apporached him all of like 5 times in the 3-0 it was boring to watch. Also not a Hbox fan boy.
Puff is the safest character in the game. I think the best way to explain why Fox players laser camp so much is to paraphrase a quote from M2K where he said something along the lines of "Puff can take so many 50/50 chances in the neutral game where, if she loses, she takes 12-18% and resets neutral and, if she wins, she takes your stock." Nobody in the game can really combo Puff that hard. They just have to consistently win neutral which is incredibly hard to do. Hbox usually wins far less neutral exchanges than his opponents (which makes sense since his character has less movement options), however he normally wins the match because Puff punishes SO hard. If you miss a single tech, you're dead, and not every character has good punishes to punishing a rest after dying like Fox does. This is why Hbox practically never loses to people who don't play Fox and, when he does lose to Fox, it's usually to Fox players that laser camp. The character of Puff, and the threat she represents, promotes a toxic (IMO) gameplay style that you HAVE to play to win. It's why Mango hates versing Hbox, despite having a good win/loss ratio against him. He has to play campy or he just runs in and dies. No other character in the game can force you to change your playstyle like Puff can.
BonJoviFanboy how dafuq you gonna call puff the safest character in the game when shieks needle camping ass exists. A good part of why puff is good is a rest where if you mess up you're most likely going to die for it (depending on what character you're playing against).
"safest character" misses a rest.... dead......hits a rest doesn't get a star KO above 58% on most maps....dead.... dies at 58% to upsmash, up air.... dies to down tilt at like 67%. There's a reason why you see very few puff mains at the top level. She gets countered by the best character in the game....hard. Yes off map she can recover. But she practically has one safe option in neutral and that's back air(I don't count crouch cancel because everyone can do that and that's more of a read.) Yes she can dash dance but it's really not that good Mango used to do it with his puff but it's not really a viably safe option anymore. You can short hop auto cancel nair but it has such a weak hitbox and if you mispace it you can get punished by crouch cancel upsmash, shield grab, crouch cancel grab, shine and probs many more. If we look at % as life generally most characters can live till 80+% unless they get combod hard or gimped where as puff generally doesn't live above 60 very often. So if Hbox takes 12-18% for losing one neutral that's 20-30% of his life gone from one missed neutral. Where the counter argument is obviously that if a fox messes up in neutral he can get rested. The majority of Stocks hbox takes is from edgeguards not rests. You could say the same for every character, people lose neutral in one hit and get Johnny Stocked they lost their life from messing up once. Puff just has a more efficient way of taking a missed neutral. Puff is not the safest character in the game, people simply compare all puffs to Hbox, where no one takes the double standard of comparing all peaches to armada. Puff is a top tier character, but you don't see very many of them in high levels of play(even top 100 what is there 3 maybe 4 or 5?) Is puff that good or is it Hbox campy style of neutral and him playing safe that. Basically is it the character of the player that wins tournaments?
You're seriously calling Puff unsafe because you die if you miss a rest? There are guaranteed rest set ups where the only reason you would miss is being bad at the game. I'm not going to say Fox has bad recovery because if you miss an angle you die. It's idiotic to take something beyond the core character that comes down to a player's decision or execution of a very consistent (with missed DI) and easy punish depending on DI of course. If a Marth misses a wavedash and gets up-smashed it's the player's fault. The fact is that Puff is very hard to punish because it all depends on what the Puff gives you. If they wall you out with back airs, the game centers much more around neutral and Puff's death from a missed rest becomes irrelevant. Shiek is in no way safer than Puff because Shiek has garbage recovery in comparison. A hard hit against Puff will result in her floating back to stage and drifting with her excellent aerial mobility and 5 extra jumps combined with Pound. A hard hit against Shiek will usually result in an edgeguard sequence with ledge hogging and then punishing a land on stage or just a quick gimp. Shiek probably has a better neutral than Puff, but there are fewer neutral exchanges with Shiek because of her solid edgeguarding and ability to be edgeguarded so their neutral has less and less relevance as Shiek's punish game and punish game against Shiek improve. Regardless, it's not like any of this matters. People will play characters however they play them and they will have their strengths and weaknesses. Arguing about these kinds of things, while fun and interesting, is pointless since we all kinda suck dick at this game comparatively to the players we cheer on or whine about.
weaselsdawg if a puff walls you out with back sits with fox why not just spam lasers until puff has to be forced to approach because she has no range move.... oh wait that's what most foxes do that beat hbox. You're counterdicting yourself. If a person loses a neutral engagement against sheik and gets edge guarded to death that's the exact same thing as losing a neutral engagement with puff and getting rested the difference between sheik and puff is once the punish is done the sheik doesn't have a chance to die with the character coming back. Also saying no character can combo a puff, watch hbox play PPmd, Wizzrobe, or even sfat or mango. You won't see the puff getting taken all around the stage but repeated hits on reads of DI or tech is still a combo is it not? I agree none of this matters I'm just trying to get you to see that puff is not just some safe character that wins every neutral or if the lose they can just automatically rest for free. The most known "guranteed rest set up" is upthrow rest and anyone who's played puff more than once can simply DI left or right.
00:52 That laser was so slick I almost didn't catch it the first time.
Some coaching going on over hur (derp face)
Hbox Coach: ....... Camp him out
Surprised Hbox didn't throw his sweatshirt on the floor, kiss his girlfriend, and start crying.
greatest hbox related youtube comment of all time
You're so funny. :DDDDDD
and break a tv
Don't forget breaking his foot
This fucking comment
:( Poor Aziz He cant catch a break
At least we know hax can beat hbox. This is one of the most compelling b0xx legality videos! despite it malfunctioning :( ... I hope for no issues on the future.
I love how Hax$ moves so quickly that he overheated the B0XX.
thanks for posting this, i missed it at the tournament.
12:10 "Hbox is thicccc."
Why didn't hax just ban hbox?
Crunch was coaching HBox in this match too ROFL
Dustin Joho this was round 2 pools so coaching was allowed
I think the point was rather that HBox let himself coach in a match against a guy with crippled hands, who's been out of the scene for a while and tries to come back with a controller that he's completely unfamiliar with.
Pretty sure anyone with a decent IQ would have done it. You guys are not the one playing for many thousands of dollars.
Billy Skceuk one of the dumbest comments I've ever read
Aspenshadow replied to wrong person? I stated a fact...
I was there lol when hax had to forfeit against hbox cuz his controller was malfunctioning and they had to get a new console then the game had no memory card so I went to get a t.o to fix the game
Thank you for this!
jigglypluff ITS YOU. Anyways, can you make a video on how to punish Foxs up smash with rest? I would love it if you could
thecrimsonpixel shield di towards the fox when the up smash hits your shield and the short hop and rest him
I guess im assuming you mean on shield
Why didn't hax ban dreamland
I think he bans FoD because it's harder to use the b0xx on that stage with the weird platforms
It's really just playstyle dependent. The KO's are only a few lasers more than on other stages and the ability to move around and not die at 0 to up-throw rests are pretty nice. Hax has good enough movement that the space to laser and dash dance is probably the main appealing aspect. I couldn't speak for him though.
Dreamland isn't bad for fox. Kill confirms still work, puff has to chase you more, you are less likely to be killed at early percent when near center stage, and the top plat will always be a great tool to escape with.
NotLikeThis
why did hax forfeit?
bracket or friendlies?
Will Liam bracket. Round 2 pools
what even happened????
Hax's controller started malfunctioning at some point during game 2. They tried a bunch of stuff like switching GameCubes, ports, and doing handwarmers to attempt to fix it, but it didn't work. You can see the issues come up again in Game 3 at about 16:18. After Hax respawns, you can see his controller flubbing inputs.
It really sucks when shit like this happens, but the B0XX is still a work in progress and shit like this is bound to happen until it's perfected.
damn rip
i love hax and it sucks to see this happen
It wasn't Hax's controller that was bad, it was the EVO venue. Hundreds of other players in other games were having similar problems. It seemed to be effecting exclusively pad players and not controller players. Hence why most people in the melee community think it was just Hax's "own fault". EVO screwed him out of making potentially the sickest run of his life.
Lol @ blaming Evo for the b0xx malfunctioning. Pretty sure Hax is the only melee player that used a pad, and it's his own homemade pad at that. What exactly did evo have to do with it malfunctioning? They had gamecubes and crts, what exactly were they supposed to have? Evo had a lot of problems, but they didn't cause the b0xx to fail.
Did his controller fail or something?
yeah
why did you forfeit hax?
His controller started malfunctioning. Apparently that's why there was the delay in between games.
yo i can't believe hax pulls out falcon at 16:50
Hahahaha he had a coach in this set too?
it was still pools round 2
ah i see ok
hax too fast for his own controller
i love how ppl get so upset for ledge camping but say nothing on the extreme laser camping
If you don't laser hbox never has to take risks. Also, there was no laser camping in this set lol.
6:33 funny the different types of reaction they give even though both players did amazing things, just like they wanted to see an specific player to lose instead of seeing a good match between them...
And is sad (at least for me) to see the comments here complaining about HBox ledge camp (which is undeniable) but seem to completely ignore Hax's laser camp... (and anyone can say it was just a response to Jiggly's camp, but that's not true in all the cases...)
look at him go! lol
Poor hax
:(
14:30 fast af
"Singles" means 1 player versus another.
Case closed.
Ban mid-set coaching.
it's hard to enforce in pools at major when people are literally screaming at you behind your back.
gamecube johns hurdurr
lol at the people who only see one side of Hbox matches, yes Hbox camps the ledge but he usually does this because most foxes just spam lasers at him from the other side of the map. I'm not saying one side is either right or wrong for this but a lot of foxes most notably Sfat play just as boring if not more boring against Hbox. Also have you watched the Hbox VS Wizzy set I think Wizzy apporached him all of like 5 times in the 3-0 it was boring to watch. Also not a Hbox fan boy.
Puff is the safest character in the game. I think the best way to explain why Fox players laser camp so much is to paraphrase a quote from M2K where he said something along the lines of "Puff can take so many 50/50 chances in the neutral game where, if she loses, she takes 12-18% and resets neutral and, if she wins, she takes your stock."
Nobody in the game can really combo Puff that hard. They just have to consistently win neutral which is incredibly hard to do. Hbox usually wins far less neutral exchanges than his opponents (which makes sense since his character has less movement options), however he normally wins the match because Puff punishes SO hard. If you miss a single tech, you're dead, and not every character has good punishes to punishing a rest after dying like Fox does.
This is why Hbox practically never loses to people who don't play Fox and, when he does lose to Fox, it's usually to Fox players that laser camp. The character of Puff, and the threat she represents, promotes a toxic (IMO) gameplay style that you HAVE to play to win. It's why Mango hates versing Hbox, despite having a good win/loss ratio against him. He has to play campy or he just runs in and dies. No other character in the game can force you to change your playstyle like Puff can.
BonJoviFanboy how dafuq you gonna call puff the safest character in the game when shieks needle camping ass exists. A good part of why puff is good is a rest where if you mess up you're most likely going to die for it (depending on what character you're playing against).
"safest character" misses a rest.... dead......hits a rest doesn't get a star KO above 58% on most maps....dead.... dies at 58% to upsmash, up air.... dies to down tilt at like 67%. There's a reason why you see very few puff mains at the top level. She gets countered by the best character in the game....hard. Yes off map she can recover. But she practically has one safe option in neutral and that's back air(I don't count crouch cancel because everyone can do that and that's more of a read.) Yes she can dash dance but it's really not that good Mango used to do it with his puff but it's not really a viably safe option anymore. You can short hop auto cancel nair but it has such a weak hitbox and if you mispace it you can get punished by crouch cancel upsmash, shield grab, crouch cancel grab, shine and probs many more.
If we look at % as life generally most characters can live till 80+% unless they get combod hard or gimped where as puff generally doesn't live above 60 very often. So if Hbox takes 12-18% for losing one neutral that's 20-30% of his life gone from one missed neutral. Where the counter argument is obviously that if a fox messes up in neutral he can get rested. The majority of Stocks hbox takes is from edgeguards not rests.
You could say the same for every character, people lose neutral in one hit and get Johnny Stocked they lost their life from messing up once. Puff just has a more efficient way of taking a missed neutral. Puff is not the safest character in the game, people simply compare all puffs to Hbox, where no one takes the double standard of comparing all peaches to armada. Puff is a top tier character, but you don't see very many of them in high levels of play(even top 100 what is there 3 maybe 4 or 5?) Is puff that good or is it Hbox campy style of neutral and him playing safe that. Basically is it the character of the player that wins tournaments?
You're seriously calling Puff unsafe because you die if you miss a rest? There are guaranteed rest set ups where the only reason you would miss is being bad at the game. I'm not going to say Fox has bad recovery because if you miss an angle you die. It's idiotic to take something beyond the core character that comes down to a player's decision or execution of a very consistent (with missed DI) and easy punish depending on DI of course. If a Marth misses a wavedash and gets up-smashed it's the player's fault. The fact is that Puff is very hard to punish because it all depends on what the Puff gives you. If they wall you out with back airs, the game centers much more around neutral and Puff's death from a missed rest becomes irrelevant. Shiek is in no way safer than Puff because Shiek has garbage recovery in comparison. A hard hit against Puff will result in her floating back to stage and drifting with her excellent aerial mobility and 5 extra jumps combined with Pound. A hard hit against Shiek will usually result in an edgeguard sequence with ledge hogging and then punishing a land on stage or just a quick gimp. Shiek probably has a better neutral than Puff, but there are fewer neutral exchanges with Shiek because of her solid edgeguarding and ability to be edgeguarded so their neutral has less and less relevance as Shiek's punish game and punish game against Shiek improve. Regardless, it's not like any of this matters. People will play characters however they play them and they will have their strengths and weaknesses. Arguing about these kinds of things, while fun and interesting, is pointless since we all kinda suck dick at this game comparatively to the players we cheer on or whine about.
weaselsdawg if a puff walls you out with back sits with fox why not just spam lasers until puff has to be forced to approach because she has no range move.... oh wait that's what most foxes do that beat hbox. You're counterdicting yourself. If a person loses a neutral engagement against sheik and gets edge guarded to death that's the exact same thing as losing a neutral engagement with puff and getting rested the difference between sheik and puff is once the punish is done the sheik doesn't have a chance to die with the character coming back. Also saying no character can combo a puff, watch hbox play PPmd, Wizzrobe, or even sfat or mango. You won't see the puff getting taken all around the stage but repeated hits on reads of DI or tech is still a combo is it not? I agree none of this matters I'm just trying to get you to see that puff is not just some safe character that wins every neutral or if the lose they can just automatically rest for free. The most known "guranteed rest set up" is upthrow rest and anyone who's played puff more than once can simply DI left or right.
the B0XX is such garbage hax is so selfish for trying to push this on the community
i mean you dont have to use it.
????
Starfy119 at least you guys don't have Bayonetta
...How is that selfish?
lying to everyone about a trash box controller