Why Jaime Wanted To Fight Ned Stark So Badly

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  • Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
  • In season 1 of game of thrones we get one of the best scenes that didn't happen in the a song of ice and fire books. The sword fight between Jaime Lannister and Ned Stark. Today I want to break down what was going on in Jaime's head. Why he needed this fight so badly and why he got so upset when the fight was cut short. Using things we learn in later books we can see what his motivation would be here beyond what we saw in the show. Everything I will talk about is what makes this to me one of the best scenes in the entire Game of Thrones show.
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Комментарии • 192

  • @shiroamakusa8075
    @shiroamakusa8075 23 дня назад +71

    It wasn't just that Ned found Jaimie having killed the king, it's that he also found him sitting on the throne while his father was busy sacking the city after giving the false impression that he was there to reinforce it. That just made it look like an outright Lannister powergrab with Jaime and Tywin having conspired for this outcome all along. That's why Ned judged Jamie that harshly.

    • @borko138
      @borko138 11 дней назад +7

      Well said

    • @Pyromaniac77777
      @Pyromaniac77777 2 дня назад

      @@borko1382nd this, the context of the events is super important to Ned’s genuine misunderstanding. It’s not a character flaw, he just thought he knew what happened and was wrong.

  • @AlaricXIII
    @AlaricXIII 24 дня назад +178

    The funny thing is that Jaime is still too proud at their later meeting to admit the real reason/final straw why he killed Aerys. Ned does know what conflicting vows are (he was involved in a rebellion after all) and we see him prioritize protecting children over other duties.

    • @cmac3530
      @cmac3530 23 дня назад +17

      Ned knows what conflicting vows are but, in order to rationalize Jaime's viewpoint Ned would have to know/believe that Aerys was planning on leveling King's Landing with wildfire. And in Ned's mind Robert has now ruled in King's Landing for over a decade and not mentioned anything about wildfire so, why would Ned believe him?

    • @jenniferpearce1052
      @jenniferpearce1052 23 дня назад +10

      @@cmac3530 I don't think that Ned believed Robert ruled. If someone is actively ruling, they're not battling against the forces of the former ruler. I also don't get the impression Ned really believed Robert was the rightful ruler either. He believed Robert would be an improvement over the sitting king.

    • @JamesDeBall
      @JamesDeBall 23 дня назад +11

      Jaime does try to tell Ned in the throne room but Ned is too simple to pick up on the hints and Jaime realizes there is no point.

    • @cmac3530
      @cmac3530 23 дня назад +3

      @@jenniferpearce1052 Maybe "rule" wasn't the right word.
      Robert lived in King's Landing, inside the Red Keep, and his men had unlimited access to all of King's Landing. No one in Robert's service ever came across any wildfire caches. At least to Ned's knowledge.

    • @AlaricXIII
      @AlaricXIII 23 дня назад +2

      @@cmac3530 To be clear, I'm not saying Ned would believe Jaime on his word but but the proof is still there (on the plus side for Jaime, he even gets to taunt Ned about it). My point is not how quickly Ned would believe his story but that Ned is likely to accept those reasons (after checking) if Jaime told him bluntly enough to force him to investigate.

  • @MangoMann072
    @MangoMann072 23 дня назад +120

    I'd say the biggest issue Ned had with Jaime was the timing of it all. Jaime could have killed the mad king at any point since he was always around him but he chose to do it only after his father had already entered the city and it was over for Aerys anyways. Ned didn't know about the wildfire thing so to him it looks like Jaime was team Aerys until Aerys lost them he jumped ship. Jaime sitting on the iron throne was not a good look either.

    • @user-gh8is1up9m
      @user-gh8is1up9m 23 дня назад +20

      Absolutely. When people make videos like these they too often attempt to see things from one characters point of view and undermine the others.

    • @realhillkell
      @realhillkell 23 дня назад

      Bruh he was 14

    • @myujmes
      @myujmes 23 дня назад +10

      ​@@realhillkellmen are considered full grown at 15 in this world. Robb was 15 when he became Lord of winterfell.

    • @jenniferpearce1052
      @jenniferpearce1052 23 дня назад +6

      @@myujmes Rob was not really considered full grown. Teenage boys were expected to step up. It was part of the process of growing up.

    • @jenniferpearce1052
      @jenniferpearce1052 23 дня назад +13

      If Jamie had killed Aerys prior to the army arriving to provide support, what do you suppose his situation would have been in court? There were still Targarean loyalists around. That would have been an incredibly suicidal thing to do.

  • @tpnv8698
    @tpnv8698 23 дня назад +78

    Deep down Jaime's always admired Ned but he's too proud to admit it even to himself

  • @ReeceDee
    @ReeceDee 23 дня назад +44

    It's tragic that the one deed that truly defined him as a true Knight was twisted into a condemnation of him as the vilest betrayer ever. This series is something else

    • @JM-rc9xm
      @JM-rc9xm 22 дня назад +6

      It's a twisted and tragic vision of a knight slaying a dragon to save a city.

    • @exothermic1942
      @exothermic1942 17 дней назад +1

      ​@@JM-rc9xm oh my god, I never thought about this?? But also it makes so much sense, it's such a GRRM thing to do

  • @Mwezi828
    @Mwezi828 23 дня назад +19

    To be fair to show Ned, the blow Arthur took from Howland was fatal, it was almost a mercy killing. And completely different context, if Jaime had killed Ned in the street there Robert would have arrested him.

    • @Morgothik
      @Morgothik 20 дней назад +1

      I was gonna say this if you didn't.

  • @SeanLKearns
    @SeanLKearns 23 дня назад +41

    That pic of Sean bean holding ice is always hilariously Ned thuggin out fo' da gram.

    • @bollockjohnson6156
      @bollockjohnson6156 17 дней назад +3

      Please don't drag ASOIAF down to ebonics level.

    • @syn3475
      @syn3475 5 дней назад +1

      @@bollockjohnson6156racist much?

  • @Raycloud
    @Raycloud 23 дня назад +23

    I don't think it is unreasonable of Ned to dismiss will/the deserter. Come on, every time someone runs from the wall and claims the Others scared them off you're going to launch an investigation?

    • @user-gh8is1up9m
      @user-gh8is1up9m 23 дня назад +7

      If Ned Stark is about to kill you, tell him you saw the others and you'll have at least the trip to the wall to try and escape. Neddard would become a laughing stock.

  • @elliecoffin616
    @elliecoffin616 23 дня назад +44

    I never viewed them together like that. They parallel each other so much.

    • @ReeceDee
      @ReeceDee 23 дня назад +11

      It's crazy. They both betrayed a tyrannical king yet one is considered the most honorable man alive...the other the most honourless 🤣

    • @elliecoffin616
      @elliecoffin616 23 дня назад +8

      @ReeceDee history is written by the victors. I love the Starks, but the 100% blind honor didn't give room for the shades of grey in real life.

    • @philpants44
      @philpants44 18 дней назад

      Bit odd ned was so upset over Jamie killing a guy he was literally rebelling again...I never thought of that lol​@@ReeceDee

  • @Guerillatoker
    @Guerillatoker 24 дня назад +23

    There is one element of what winning the swordfight woul prove that you missed. In GoT, where trial by combat is a well established concept, winning a sword fight could actually prove you are just. Though I don't think this was author's intent (cool swordfight goes brr) I think it's a nice interpretation, on top of the simpler (and probably correct) explanation that it was about Jaime's ego.

    • @Guerillatoker
      @Guerillatoker 24 дня назад +4

      It also somewhat comes down to the dichotomy of Stark and Lannister philosophy. Lannister is might makes right, Stark is honour makes right. Ned thinks he can win by being most just in the face of his enemies, Jaime knows he can win by leaving his enemies dead.

  • @beevie4081
    @beevie4081 23 дня назад +8

    I've always wondered how important the detail that Jamie was sitting on the Iron Throne was. Jamie seems to think Ned was judging him based on the dead king, but it was more than that, wasn't it? Lannister banners were up, the dead Targaryen children were wrapped in Lannister colours, and there Jamie is sitting on the throne. Jamie looked terrible in that position, of course Ned was judgemental.
    The mundane version is that Ned disapproves of the Lannister opportunism and baby-killing in general, and Jamie seems very untrustworthy by sitting on the throne. I mean I've read Jamie's thoughts and even I don't fully understand what he was thinking by sitting there.
    The fun version I entertain sometimes is that Ned knows a bit about Raegar's prophecy, and something about evil deeds by a Lannister/lion on the iron throne is included in the prophecy, so Ned is very deeply concerned by the sight... even though the prophecy was actually referring to Cersei.

  • @tacogaviglio575
    @tacogaviglio575 23 дня назад +8

    I think you're spot on. It's fun to see a more grounded and less magical vid from you. I was waiting for you to tell me how Jaime is actually the Night's King and also Qaith. And a horse.

  • @lacym9278
    @lacym9278 23 дня назад +6

    Being a fan even after this many years can be still be rewarding! Thanks for that, it somehow never occurred to me in the fashion you just supposed. Great job :)

  • @christianmorrow807
    @christianmorrow807 23 дня назад +9

    To be fair they came in to see Jamie sitting on the Iron Throne he definitely wasn’t helping his public image 😅

  • @JacquesduPlessis11
    @JacquesduPlessis11 23 дня назад +12

    I think a big difference here is also psychological. Jaime seeks validation for his actions (and we could go into why, because of Tywin and Cersei and so on). But the very need to seek validation is what creates the disdain from Ned's eyes. The Starks bear their duty. When Ned breaks his duty, he does so and bears it without seeking approval. He bears it and accepts what comes with the dishonor. And that is the difference between the two men. It is not that Ned cannot conceive of breaking a vow, or doing something dishonorable. It is that he believes you accept the consequences of that decision. Ned is willing to take the black and be branded a traitor, because he believes there are more important things than honour. However he would never try and seek validation for his actions to another, like Jaime Lannister, and this is why when he tries to appeal to Ned, Ned shows disdain. He expects a true kingsguard to accept the consequences of his actions. I actually think that Jaime starts to learn this lesson throughout the story after he loses his hand. I love their comparison, because they are similar in many ways. And different in interesting ones.

  • @Lord_Taron_Texas
    @Lord_Taron_Texas 23 дня назад +4

    Amazing videos Ser! Every time I think that you won't top your last video you go ahead and do it again that's outstanding!

  • @justinthemotions2291
    @justinthemotions2291 5 дней назад

    Those parallels you pointed out at the end literally blew my mind! 🤯😭 Gotta love long form videos like this.

  • @johnnycamine
    @johnnycamine 23 дня назад

    great video as always michael! always excited to see what you make next!

  • @jefftharnish2170
    @jefftharnish2170 24 дня назад +53

    I think Jamie doesn't believe that Ned killed sir Arthur Dayne at the tower of joy with skill-honor (he likely didn't). I don't think it's about Jamie proving himself to be the best so much as proving Ned is a liar

    • @pyropulseIXXI
      @pyropulseIXXI 23 дня назад +3

      How absurd

    • @jenniferpearce1052
      @jenniferpearce1052 23 дня назад +4

      People don't know about the Tower of Joy unless they read the books. People in world don't know about it.

    • @Slender_Man_186
      @Slender_Man_186 23 дня назад +11

      @@jenniferpearce1052no, it’s publicly known that Ned killed Sir Arthur Dayne somehow, he returned Dawn to house Dayne after all and there would have to be SOME explanation for what happened to a member of the King’s Guard.

    • @josephrhodes5025
      @josephrhodes5025 23 дня назад

      i felt the same way after going back and watching it

    • @higharchbishopofteatasting6217
      @higharchbishopofteatasting6217 23 дня назад +2

      ​@@Slender_Man_186It wasn't just one either, I believe it was 3 kingsguard.

  • @blackeyedlily
    @blackeyedlily 14 дней назад

    Really good analysis of this importance of this fight for Jamie! I had never thought about it that way before. But it certainly makes a lot of sense.

  • @cheddarbob6062
    @cheddarbob6062 20 дней назад

    awesome video bro can’t believe you don’t have more subs

  • @panic_2001
    @panic_2001 23 дня назад +11

    Without watching the video: Jaime wants a fight with Ned over Ser Arthur Dayne. All of Westeros knows the story of the Tower of Joy.

  • @FraternityOfShadows
    @FraternityOfShadows 24 дня назад +13

    I have no idea why you have so little subscribers, your theories on ASoIaF are so on point!

    • @robertinogochev3682
      @robertinogochev3682 24 дня назад +4

      So few*

    • @FraternityOfShadows
      @FraternityOfShadows 23 дня назад +1

      @@robertinogochev3682 I can't be always correct. I am no Mannis.

    • @hakusnowninja
      @hakusnowninja 23 дня назад +1

      You make a great point... I just subbed to his channel because of this comment.

  • @TheInsatiableDrBoom
    @TheInsatiableDrBoom 22 дня назад +1

    You know I like the idea of recapturing as much of the good from the show as possible. It was fun while it lasted to share a phenom with everyone superbowl style but now its an ecosystem of real fans.

  • @shimaalcarrim7949
    @shimaalcarrim7949 14 дней назад

    Excellent video

  • @cyberneticthezero
    @cyberneticthezero 19 дней назад +1

    Very good video bro

  • @jackzanetti6235
    @jackzanetti6235 8 дней назад +1

    Jaime had a very specific reason for not killing Ned and it had nothing to do with honor. Ned specifically states kill me and your brother is as good as dead. Ned on the other hand, killed Arthur Dayne as an act of mercy. Had nothing again to do with honor. Either he could leave Arthur to bleed out or he could put him out of his misery much like you do for an animal with a serious injury.

  • @SolidSDA
    @SolidSDA 24 дня назад +10

    I mean the real reason was because it was cheaper to film.

    • @lumarrandom8144
      @lumarrandom8144 23 дня назад

      So making a horse break neds leg is more expensive than filming a whole fight scene. Ok bro

    • @SolidSDA
      @SolidSDA 23 дня назад +5

      @@lumarrandom8144 Yes.

    • @Baelfyre
      @Baelfyre 21 день назад

      ​@@SolidSDA no

    • @wimscheers6523
      @wimscheers6523 12 дней назад

      @@Baelfyre yes

    • @NicolaeCarpathia420
      @NicolaeCarpathia420 10 дней назад

      @@lumarrandom8144you realize how fucking hard it is to do a horse stunt? The whole point is to not actually injure the stunt actor

  • @AStarkofWinterfell24
    @AStarkofWinterfell24 21 день назад

    Good foookin video!!

  • @loyaltyisroyalty5616
    @loyaltyisroyalty5616 23 дня назад +2

    How was Eddard executing Will a “bad choice”? It was all really par-for-the-course. I understand Will was fleeing a supernatural boogie man, but he fled from the far north, over the wall, and past his sworn duty. He could have stopped at Castle Black, but he didn’t.

  • @hutch361
    @hutch361 4 дня назад

    I think a crucial part of dialogue you’re missing is when Ned goes on to say “you served him well, when serving was safe.” Ned would have respected what Jamie did had he done it earlier when it actually might’ve cost his something, but saved someone else.

  • @blitzkrieg2928
    @blitzkrieg2928 23 дня назад +5

    Someone said in the comment section of another video ( I think from the Fandome ? ) that Jaime might be realizing that Ned isn't up to Arthur Dayne's standards , as he's fighting him , and is probably finding out that something isn't adding up about Stark beating Dayne.

    • @andrewward5891
      @andrewward5891 22 дня назад

      Might have been my comment I’ve said similar Things on other videos. Just before the Lannister guard wounds Ned it seems like Jamie has a disappointed look on his face. He’s likely realizing that Ned isn’t in his (or Arthur Dayne’s) level in swordplay. So I think he knows there’s no way Ned beat Dayne in a one on one fight.

  • @Spare_Time_G
    @Spare_Time_G 23 дня назад +3

    16:30 Well, one was stabbed in the leg (granted, in that time, it might have been deadly still) and the other one got stabbed THROUGH THE SPINE, NECK, AND THROAT so Ned basically mercy-killed Ser Arthur, it's not like he could feed him some bread and call it a day Video-Game style.
    Also, the situation was quite different, Ned was trying to save and free his sister, it was a clear war and he knew, alive Arthur was a big threat to his goal, while Jaime needed Ned to be alive, he had a numerical superiority and just went with the play. I am sure, that if Ned had the opportunity, he would have restrained from killing Jaime, so the stakes from both sides were much lower.

  • @VHBEngines
    @VHBEngines 20 дней назад

    Awesome. Never would have put that much stock into that scene

  • @organic723
    @organic723 23 дня назад +6

    When you hear "time traveling Bran did it" in a theory video....
    And have to throw up in your mouth a little

  • @ickyfist
    @ickyfist 18 дней назад

    If you are experiencing the story for the first time I think the book version has some extra merits. It adds more hype for when Ned and Jaime might fight in the future. The problem is that never happens. So it's good that the show lets us see them fight--or even let's us see Ned fight at all for that matter. And yeah having them fight is so good for Jaime's character.

  • @justincurll1110
    @justincurll1110 21 день назад

    The show may have lacked the story-in-a-story complexity and the deeper use of symbolism, but there were some truly great moments, and the first scene between Tywin and Jamie was one of them.

  • @PrinceIsot
    @PrinceIsot 2 дня назад

    Ned not telling people he didn't defeat Dayne in single combat is the most dishonorable thing he did in the show/books

  • @Plantedbetta
    @Plantedbetta 22 дня назад +1

    Jamie was still but hurt over his mentor getting killed at the tower of joy .. he probably had a lot of sleepless night wondering how the dawn could lose to the winter wolf

  • @Leonssj
    @Leonssj 18 дней назад +1

    @16:30 it wasnt the exact same situation. after killing Arthur they can save the hostage and leave, while killing Ned could result in war with the north and tyrions execution.

  • @MG-wc6nk
    @MG-wc6nk 10 дней назад

    Jaime was the realest most loyal person in this whole show. He is the GOAT of TV history! He deserves his flowers. Give him his 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹

  • @davidanderson6055
    @davidanderson6055 19 дней назад

    I like that Jaime is so frustrated that Ned makes a judgement of him for being dishonorable, although he thought he was doing the right thing. Then when one of his guys stabs Ned in the back of the leg, thinking he is doing the right thing, Jaime literally punches him in the face for being dishonorable.

  • @maylabrown4584
    @maylabrown4584 5 дней назад

    I do wonder how things would have went if Tywin did actually try and take the Iron Throne for House Lannister in a double-betrayal type of situation.
    Imagine a younger Ned and a less experienced Jaime going at it in front of the Iron Throne.

  • @jeffdollaz
    @jeffdollaz 22 дня назад +1

    Holy crap I haven’t read the first book in forever and Ned didn’t get into a fight with Jaime in the book I think the fight was a great improvement

  • @mikecarroll3538
    @mikecarroll3538 4 дня назад

    I agree that this was a great change

  • @SeanLKearns
    @SeanLKearns 23 дня назад +2

    I think the thing that gets overlooked about ned. (Probably because we dont get his viewpoint early on in his life) is that Ned is a hard man who has seen some shit. Like in his kids eyes hes a very good moral compass, so we the reader see him as inherently good. But ned is a very hard man.

  • @jessco8950
    @jessco8950 2 дня назад

    One thing I don’t see many people talk about when talking about honorable ned is that he was only honorable to cover up the dishonor of him hiding Jon snow and not telling anyone he truth about what truly caused the rebellion. It probably eats him up that he can’t tell anyone due to the promise he made so he makes up for it in other ways. Sorry I’m not well with words but I think you get my point lol

  • @ashleyrodd8729
    @ashleyrodd8729 23 дня назад +2

    They're like, one or two years apart age wise...

  • @DeborahShepard-hw2id
    @DeborahShepard-hw2id 2 дня назад

    Jaime said it did bother him when they call him kingslayer....
    Tywin: and when they whisper King Slayer behind your back, does it bother you???
    Ser Jaime: of course it does

  • @azimsiddiqui4773
    @azimsiddiqui4773 23 дня назад

    Id like to say i love the fact that even though the one thing jaime values most(aside from cersi) being the best warrior, against his worst enemy(fickle, his foil, and his nick name maker) who also imprisoned his brother is taken away from him. he still doesn't kill the henchman who took away his opportunity of lifetime even though he's supposed to be a evilish villain who would normally kill his henchman but doesn't

  • @wyattyeager8832
    @wyattyeager8832 3 дня назад

    The point you are missing is Ned didn’t really care that Jaimie killed the Mad King. The issue he had was he did it after he knew the King was going to lose the war and it showed no bravery or heroism when and how he did it. He was pissed that he should have done when his father and brother were about to be tortured and murdered. That would have been a brave and noble act. You clearly missed Ned’s point of view.

  • @ddhurry4168
    @ddhurry4168 23 дня назад +1

    Clearly the horse is Tykrek Lannister

  • @slabbyfatback2272
    @slabbyfatback2272 4 дня назад

    Jamie just wanted to see if he was actually as good as he thought was (himself)-What better way than to challenge and maybe beat the established Ned. Ned let him think he was good but not for long-Once Ned quit toying w/him and put his game face on it was over for Jamie and Jamie knew it-u could see the look on his face when he realized he had bit off more than he could chew. His man saved his life by stabbing Ned in the leg-or so the man thought because I don't think Ned would have killed him, just taught him a lesson and, to Jamie, that may have been worse than death.

  • @TotalTech2.
    @TotalTech2. 23 дня назад

    The reason that in the show Jamie wanted to fight Ned was that he knew that he "defeated" Arthur Dayne who was the greatest swordsman to ever live. Honor and curiosity dictated that he fight and best Ned by his own hand.

  • @noahmay7708
    @noahmay7708 21 день назад +1

    A little long-winded, some points repeated ad nauseum, but overall cool video.

  • @luanabanana7883
    @luanabanana7883 24 дня назад +3

    ok now say hi to your brazilian fans
    I SAID DO IT NOW

  • @DeborahShepard-hw2id
    @DeborahShepard-hw2id 2 дня назад

    Ser Jaime didn't scare Ned's horse, he rode away before the fighting even started 3:14

  • @BeteBlanc
    @BeteBlanc 23 дня назад

    A couple things I'd like to add. Your characterization of Ned is good, but I'd extend it to his own challenges with being a KG. One scene in the books in particular, when he asks why they don't defend the queen. Ned's rebuke of his morally correct assessment is similar to the one he received from his KG brothers. I think he doesn't just want to prove he's as capable a swordsman as Arthur Dayne, he also wants this trial by combat to prove his balance of morality vs vows was the right one. By defeating Ned he's not simply proving his skill, he's proving he wasn't guilty of a crime or sin when he killed Aerys.
    Another interesting parallel is the comparison of Arthur and The Smiling Knight. It's interesting because Ned is being cast in the role of Arthur, underlined by him not smiling or laughing. This is contrasted against what I would assume to be Robert cast as the Smiling Knight. Said one way, he would have wanted to be more like Ned, but ended up being more like Robert. By which I simply mean self indulgent to a degree. Needing to prove he was better and letting it make him insecure. Not that this change in him mattered much in KL with Ned.
    Excellent take on why he wanted to face Ned. I'd say it was more than just defeating him on a skill level though. He wanted to believe he was right, and defeating Ned would have made him feel like the Seven had blessed his choices as much as his arm.

  • @jamalanderson3891
    @jamalanderson3891 22 дня назад

    How did the deserter make it from beyond the wall to winterfell territory? Did he just go through the main gate then run away? Or go around- which if he did, he would find himself in others land more than starks

  • @RiakeemKelley
    @RiakeemKelley 18 часов назад

    I need to rewatch, but im misremembering. I thought Ned had the upper hand in the 1 v 1

  • @selakforn
    @selakforn 11 дней назад

    Ned was in a war, where Jamie attacks ned outside a brothel not comparable situations in terms of honor imo.

  • @erikkarlsson9192
    @erikkarlsson9192 18 дней назад

    lmfao 0:45 is outrageous!

  • @johnballard7775
    @johnballard7775 14 дней назад

    in the books when we’re told what happened at the tower of joy we’re gonna find out arthur dayne had a horse fall on him and break his leg.

  • @FMonou
    @FMonou 4 дня назад

    Very solid defense of Jamie. My only thought is would Jamie kill or let Ned live. I think Jamie would let Ned live cause Jamie wants revenge for the King Slayer title Ned had branded him with.

  • @jolinefields3460
    @jolinefields3460 23 дня назад

    I’ve always thought that the kid obviously had news and Ned should have recognized that by his behavior (We all love Ned but dang definitely Sansa’s father 😅) ….
    Plus- he should have learned from the whole tower of joy that things aren’t always as previously conceived…💕 Sean Bean

  • @Force-Multiplier
    @Force-Multiplier 21 день назад

    I find it funny that Ned judged Jaime for stabbing Aerys in the back
    like he didn't killed Arthur Dayne while Arthur was on his knees ...
    on his back from the front on their knees to the side killing is killing
    i think that kinda like Jaime justified his pain Ned's personality is also doing the same as Jaime and branding other types of killing dishonorable and dissing people for their "bad" actions while not confessing or acknowledging his own
    in a way he has less moral righteousness than Jaime
    but then again Jaime does his own sister and pushed a kid from a castletop
    what's funny is that Jaime would probably judge Ned in a worse way if he knew the disgraceful way in wich Ned killed his childhood idol

  • @johntedesco9834
    @johntedesco9834 День назад

    Jamie arc in the books are one od the best i have personally i have read me and my friend still dispute who would win in duel BOOK jamie vs MOVIE Arragorn and i say movie not book because he has the ability to heal him seld

  • @deenman23
    @deenman23 6 дней назад

    i mean,jamie not killing ned vs ned killing arthur isnt the same,ned is still hand of the king,and jamie wants his brother back,he has reasons to not kill him,meanwile arthur was a loyal guard to the king who just lost the war that killed neds dad and brother

  • @ed379
    @ed379 19 дней назад +1

    At the end of the day Jamie is a sister-banging, attempted child murder... I think Ned's instincts of Jamie were correct.

  • @user-gh8is1up9m
    @user-gh8is1up9m 23 дня назад

    You wanted Ned to take the Nights watch deserter on a long trip to the wall because he said he saw the others, something no one believes exists or ever did? He'd look good turning up at the wall saying this dude saw the others.
    I also don't think Jamie feels he needs to beat Ned to know he's a better fighter. He believes he's better and based on what we know, that's true. Ned isn't considered in the top ten, so there's no way Jaime felt he needed to prove his battle prowess over Ned.

  • @BadPotat
    @BadPotat 23 дня назад

    6:15 what if… Ned rode north instead of south?

  • @betterthanrae8137
    @betterthanrae8137 23 дня назад

    im still traumatized by the death of Jory😭

  • @andrewlanham1372
    @andrewlanham1372 23 дня назад

    JamievNed in their conversations, is the notion of Honor on the general sense..compared to GRRM view of honor. Ned is the rigid, cold general Honor, while Jamie is the GRRM view of honor..doing what is right.

  • @nelcorazs
    @nelcorazs 12 дней назад

    Bro's voice is so monotone, a robot's voice would sound more interesting

  • @What-go8ng
    @What-go8ng 2 дня назад

    16:00 totally disagree, entirely different scenarios, arthur dayne would fight with no legs like the knight in monty python

  • @Saktoth
    @Saktoth 23 дня назад +7

    It's because Ned killed Arthur Dayne, the man who knighted Jamie. This is why it's a big deal in the show when Ned doesn't kill Arthur Dayne, he loses to Dayne, and it is Howland Reed who stabs Dayne in the back. It shatters the Myth of Ned Stark as a great swordsman. It's also why he doesn't fight in duels and doesn't want people to know what he can do: Because he cannot live up to the reputation of the man who bested Arthur Dayne. He's a fighter, but he's just not at that calibre.

  • @connorp8408
    @connorp8408 7 дней назад

    Because he was fighting the guy who beat Arthur Dayne - the greatest of all time.

  • @Mofi357
    @Mofi357 24 дня назад +1

    Jamie betrayed Arthur

  • @OJ9992
    @OJ9992 22 дня назад

    They should have 1v1’d on rust

  • @erikkarlsson9192
    @erikkarlsson9192 18 дней назад

    Very good points so far. Ned is a c*nt. I've always seen Jaime as *the hero* in the story in many ways. I mean sure Jon Snow is of course a good candidate for "the hero". I do however love Stannis as well. Of all the kings he's by far the best one for the Realm.
    Well, except for listening to Melisandre and burning people alive and stuff. Of course. ^^

  • @professorsassafras
    @professorsassafras 22 дня назад

    Jamie pretty much abandoned the mad kings children to get slaughtered and his oath included protecting them so what is Jamie's excuse for that?

    • @richardstephens5570
      @richardstephens5570 5 дней назад

      During the Sack of King's Landing Jaime had been summoned to the throne room by the king. And the children killed by the Lannisters were the Mad King's grandchildren, not his children.

  • @fortyforfree
    @fortyforfree 22 дня назад

    It would have been something to write in his Good Dead’s book. Fockin Jaime Lannister, Wanted a “Clean” kill for his book lolololol
    My boy choked tbh

  • @DefaultProphet
    @DefaultProphet 22 дня назад

    Ned is Jagathi Kahn

  • @DeborahShepard-hw2id
    @DeborahShepard-hw2id 2 дня назад

    Book Jamie's obviously doesn't give shit about beating dead 101 cuz he was obviously a better swordsman, that was the whole point of him riding away. I don't know if you do your own research or what but i literally never seen somebody get so many things right about book and show and such a short video. I think or at least hope that you just got these things wrong to fit your narrative but wrong is wrong

  • @johnnyparkinsons
    @johnnyparkinsons 10 дней назад

    Idunwanimtano wuhicando 😂

  • @Doehini
    @Doehini 5 дней назад

    This doesn’t make jamie more honorable, tow different situations

  • @lake_cooper
    @lake_cooper 23 дня назад

    👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

  • @TonyBlacksmith0001
    @TonyBlacksmith0001 23 дня назад

    Kengancore

  • @thetan1595
    @thetan1595 23 дня назад

    wheres the elden ring wizard man

  • @ThommyofThenn
    @ThommyofThenn 23 дня назад +2

    "You served well, when serving was safe." Ned I love ya but it must have taken all Jaime's strength to actually slay the king. Jaime was probably aware at some level, that his actions could have led to extreme consequences for him.

  • @TheStiff
    @TheStiff 21 день назад +1

    This video had 666 likes. Fixed it.

  • @jamesaaron7211
    @jamesaaron7211 21 день назад

    In the books, Ned isn’t anything special with a sword.

  • @brandonwalker5011
    @brandonwalker5011 23 дня назад

    Fighting, including sword fighting, is highly non-transitive. Which makes it even more believable that an idiot like Jaime would think it works like that.

  • @poibaitlyngdoh9809
    @poibaitlyngdoh9809 23 дня назад

    You know the reality is that Jamie did'nt have to kill the mad king to save the city he could have just stab him through the leg or something else is not like the mad king was this mountain of that the only way to stop him was to stab him from the back so ned was some what justified.

    • @richardstephens5570
      @richardstephens5570 5 дней назад

      Jaime had to shut him up. As long as the Mad King was alive, he could give orders.

    • @poibaitlyngdoh9809
      @poibaitlyngdoh9809 5 дней назад

      That's my point there are no one left to obey the mad king command in the throne room certainly not Jamie since he didn't order Jamie to kill him.

  • @DARKBRANDON-2024
    @DARKBRANDON-2024 10 часов назад

    A W is a W Jaime

  • @SteveOnTheEastCoast
    @SteveOnTheEastCoast 24 дня назад +3

    Good character analysis here. (sans political relativism) 👍🏾

  • @chables74
    @chables74 23 дня назад

    Shame they choreographed it so badly though

  • @dereklogsdon1416
    @dereklogsdon1416 21 день назад

    Jamie didn’t kill Ned because it would have literally started a war. Jamie was not honorable around that time at all. I do agree that Ned was hard on him for absolutely no reason, especially knowing that he avenged his family and stopped any further conflict. Jamie literally took all of the heat after the war.

    • @petermj1098
      @petermj1098 21 день назад

      Jamie did honor Ned even though Ned insulted him. Jamie told Tywin “it wasn’t a clean kill” showing he cared about killing and fighting Ned in a honorable way and not a scummy way.

    • @dereklogsdon1416
      @dereklogsdon1416 20 дней назад

      @@petermj1098 Did he also honor Ned by having all of his men killed? There was no honor in any of that. Jamie was simply egotistical and wanted to toy with him.

    • @petermj1098
      @petermj1098 18 дней назад

      @@dereklogsdon1416 Jamie was angry at Ned because Catelyn took Tyrion. Jamie was sending a message to Ned to free Tyrion by killing his men and wounding him.

    • @dereklogsdon1416
      @dereklogsdon1416 16 дней назад

      @@petermj1098 Precisely, Jamie was sending a message. The “it wasn’t a clean kill” quote doesn’t really support what you said though. Again, i was talking about how a war would have happened if Jamie were to kill Ned, also, how there was no honor in what Jamie did. Tyrion was not harmed, he was just in captive, which Jamie knew.

    • @dereklogsdon1416
      @dereklogsdon1416 16 дней назад

      @@petermj1098 If you thought someone tried to kill your child and take them for questioning against their will, then that someone’s brother ambushes your significant other, wounds them and slaughtered their protectors (people who were sworn to protect you and your family as well) because of your justified actions. Would that have made you want to give up the accused? or keep. maybe harm them? There was no honor. Jamie simply being egotistical and wanted a taste of Ned.

  • @MG-wc6nk
    @MG-wc6nk 10 дней назад

    Ned was a fool just like the rest of his family.

  • @aguspuig6615
    @aguspuig6615 22 дня назад

    Ned wouldve made such a good femboy ong