Yes I do. Ti child in INFJs makes us very logical, and that’s why Jung himself thought he was an INTP, not the INFJ most believe he was. INFP at least have an N and F function in the top 2 positions. If it was obvious, why didn’t Ren include it?
I'm an INTJ and I feel close to INFJs. It seems we understand each other well. ISFJs are so very different to me and can be hard to understand. It's like everything is inverted, as you say, with that Si function. I never considered that ISFJs would be similar to INFJs. To me they're like day and night. 😅
Si & Fe are your 7th & 8th functions as an intj. as an infj, the mbti type with my 8th & 7th functions as THEIR 1st & 2nd respectively, is istj. what you described about the isfj is what i thought about people in my life who i now think are istj's before i found out about mbti.
In Chinese culture, we have the historians, who for centuries endeavored to tell as objective an account as possible that took into account all sides of the issue. We also had Oracle readers, who divined all manner of statecraft, military strategy, as well as personal development through the I Ching. Both types are dedicated to the well-being of the tribe (Fe). I think this illustrates a culturally specific example of the difference between the ISFJs (focused on the past, citizenship etc) and the INFJs (focused on the future and how to improve outcomes for the tribe).
Yes, that is correct. As an Ni-dom I am constantly making leaps to comparing and synthesizing patterns… you can see where the conversation falls flat when you begin to detour into that sphere and the Si-dom just doesn’t say anything. They are more skeptics towards making those assumptions. I see this between me and an INTP. SI-users are not as keen towards trying to prevent repeating patterns across time because 1) they aren’t tracking that information… they aren’t even aware of the possibility and 2) they are more focused on their subjective present experience rather than the bigger overarching themes of everything else. This offers more stability and grounded orientation to the INFJ but can also be limiting to Ni-expression. In some sense, I believe an ISFJ makes a better citizen, whereas an INFJ makes a better person… and not better in a superiority sense but in that of developing self and others to break disruptive patterns.
My ex-wife is INTJ and my present wife is ISFJ. My ex does not like to discuss all of what she calls my woo woo interests, including personality typing insights because they can not be explained logically and with scientific studies. I do lots of "spiritual" work and she just didn't buy any of it. She is athiest and doesn't want to be bothered with any spiritual concepts. Thus, our conversations were very limited. My present wife is ISFJ. We share similar values on most things. She doesn't do "abstract" very well, so our discussions on all of the spiritual topics are quite one-sided. However, they greatly interest her. She loves to work with channelers, crystals, and lots of other topics. She gets very bored when I get deeply involved in the topics that really turn me on, such as personality typing issues. Overall, I am more compatible with my current wife than my ex. However, I have a great relationship with my ex. We see each other weekly, and as long as we discuss topics that don't trigger her woo woo alarm, we enjoy each other's company. Many aspects of life, however, go better with my ISFJ wife. She tends to be quite controlling, but I work around that without too much effort.
I think also ISFJ's, due to higher Fe, are more affectionate than INTJ's. ISFJ/INFJ relationships, once you find a way past the Si verses Ni divide, those Fe, Ti common functions really kick in to make it a good relationship. We INFJ's have to get our abstract conversations satisfied somewhere else, and that's OK.
My wife is an ISFJ and while I can see how she is similar to INFJs, with her kind of “neurotic” relationship with group harmony, or her aversion to Te related tasks like administrative work or indifference towards titles etc, the largest difference is apparent during “philosophic” discussion. Not only does she maintain that philosophy is pointless, when she is put in conversations of an abstract or theoretical nature she can really only entertain those ideas for 10 or so minutes before she becomes frustrated or politely exits the discussion due to disinterest. Her strengths lie in other areas.
I enjoyed this video Ren. I think a lot about the comparisons you made between ISFJ, INFJ, ENFJ, INTJ's. I would add in INFP/ENFP in the mix too as the group of types I get along with best, and am attracted to most.
Good vid Ren, I have an ISFJ student and it's fascinating how different we are. When I told her that I could tell a lot about a person just by apprehending them, she said 'that's impossible!' Well, I know it's possible and that I'm right about my assumptions more than I am wrong. I do find I can relate well with her through Fe and now I know Ti as well. Cheers🙂🙂
Despite my two of my family members being predominant Si users, for whatever reason it takes me the longest time to understand the underlying logic of what makes Si users function, although I have came to conclusion that it is really similar to Ni, although its focus is on a completely different plane of existence
I'm in a household full of Si-users, esp my ISFJ mom. Thank you so much for breaking down and describing the cause of the little yet sometimes exhaustive clashes we had throughout the years. It had been nagging my mind for a long time. I showed this to my INFP sister and boom! She relates to Si 😂 But her Ni-id intrudes her mind first before Si child function kicks in quickly. But I’m lucky that my close Si-users aren't that dismissive of my Ni for years now. They grounded me and I grounded them. The differences between Si-Ti and Si-Fi are visceral from what I experienced, which makes sense why INFPs and ENFPs tend to understand us better since we use extroverted version of their introverted pair. I wonder if you had delve into it before in past videos. If not, I hope you’d take this topic into consideration :]
Perception dictates your world view while judging functions affect your actual interactions with others a lot more directly. I've very rarely found an ISFJ with whom communication hasn't been smooth and easy provided the topic at hand isn't affected by our world view. If I keep topics close to what an ISFJ will feel at home with then it's smooth sailing. This requires a constant effort to keep abstraction to a minimum but aren't we used to adapting ourselves to different people anyway? With INTJs the fact that we share dominant Ni and our world view/mutual understanding based on that is so close means that we'll feel really connected to them but we can definitely have break downs in communication when the judging functions eventually clash.
Si is based on subjectivity with all the problem that created (flawed societal systems, beliefs and traditions) while Ni is based on searching for objective truths through Se. In this sense, I agree Si is less ‘concrete’. I used to know an ISFJ well and I could see the differences between us. They were quite traditional and limited in intellectual powers. There were frequent misunderstandings.
Without doubt the INFJ is behaviorally most similar to the ISFJ with their overall vibe. The only type I could consistently mix up. The ENFJ is a close second but their extroversion and Se forcefulness makes it not so hard to differentiate still. INFP or INTJ seem to not even be in the same ballpark as far as behavior goes. Generally from this I discovered that each type behaves most similarly to the type that share their 2nd and 3rd functions with. (This is most likely because our first 3 functions tend to be the strongest, and the ISFJ is the only one that has 2 of these 3 functions in the exact same place as us, unlike any other type, + they have an introverted judging function as dominant as well, aka the ISFJ is the type we have most in common with directly) *I understand though that many INFJ's will have a need to associate with INTJ or ENFJ more as they are more popular types and makes them feel cooler, but in all honesty we seem to be substantially more like ISFJ's.
Fascinating thank you. My closest friends fall into intj, infp and isfj types. My strongest and most harmonious friendships are with the intj and infps... I find my isfj friends to be a little too black and white and rigid (in my opinion) in their approach and their inability for any cognitive perspective taking is incredibly frustrating to me... There is a lot of effort that goes into agreeing to disagree 😂 though I love them all equally. None of my friends have been picked as it were based on their type! Do people do that? They are in my life because of events, time and circumstance... and despite all our differences I wouldn't ever want to lose the rich tapestry of love, perspective and vision they bring, and knowing them (sometimes working extra hard to 'get' them) hopefully make me a better person 😊
My best friend is an ISFJ so I have noticed a pretty tremendous compatibility and acceptance there. I think there is something about having the same judging functions prioritized in the same way (albeit fed by different perceiving functions) that offers a unique form of comradery. It is similar to interactions I've viewed between INTJs and ISTJs. I do think that it is quite illuminating to point out the inversion of the Ti functions (how are these different vs how are these alike). I wonder how inferior Ne informs all of this? As the strength of the dominant function is always fed by the inferior (unconscious) function. The Ne-Si axis is admittedly one of the most difficult ones for me to grasp, especially in Si doms. Is it similar then to the often tabboo or fetishistic relationships that Ni doms have with present reality? Ne seems to me to be very preoccupied with possibility and finds novelty rewarding and pleasurable. Idk. Is that part of thr nominalization process? Like, i dunno, something about seeing the possibility vectors of phenomena (Ne) causes you to use Ti to differentiate rather than synthesize? Something like "these two things have different possibility trajectory indexes and therefore are NOT the same"? Idk. Just spitballing. Very good video!
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INTP are quite similar to INFJs, perhaps more so than INFPs.
obviously. do you not know what the mbti function stacking is? infps share no functions w infjs. infjs share Ti & Fe with intps.
Yes I do. Ti child in INFJs makes us very logical, and that’s why Jung himself thought he was an INTP, not the INFJ most believe he was. INFP at least have an N and F function in the top 2 positions. If it was obvious, why didn’t Ren include it?
I'm an INTJ and I feel close to INFJs. It seems we understand each other well. ISFJs are so very different to me and can be hard to understand. It's like everything is inverted, as you say, with that Si function. I never considered that ISFJs would be similar to INFJs. To me they're like day and night. 😅
Si & Fe are your 7th & 8th functions as an intj. as an infj, the mbti type with my 8th & 7th functions as THEIR 1st & 2nd respectively, is istj. what you described about the isfj is what i thought about people in my life who i now think are istj's before i found out about mbti.
Interesting, but ISTJs I can have a decent rational conversation with at least.😊
In Chinese culture, we have the historians, who for centuries endeavored to tell as objective an account as possible that took into account all sides of the issue. We also had Oracle readers, who divined all manner of statecraft, military strategy, as well as personal development through the I Ching. Both types are dedicated to the well-being of the tribe (Fe). I think this illustrates a culturally specific example of the difference between the ISFJs (focused on the past, citizenship etc) and the INFJs (focused on the future and how to improve outcomes for the tribe).
Great explanation, Ren. I get a better sense of what Si is now. I never really understood it before. Thanks!😊
Yes, that is correct. As an Ni-dom I am constantly making leaps to comparing and synthesizing patterns… you can see where the conversation falls flat when you begin to detour into that sphere and the Si-dom just doesn’t say anything. They are more skeptics towards making those assumptions. I see this between me and an INTP. SI-users are not as keen towards trying to prevent repeating patterns across time because 1) they aren’t tracking that information… they aren’t even aware of the possibility and 2) they are more focused on their subjective present experience rather than the bigger overarching themes of everything else. This offers more stability and grounded orientation to the INFJ but can also be limiting to Ni-expression. In some sense, I believe an ISFJ makes a better citizen, whereas an INFJ makes a better person… and not better in a superiority sense but in that of developing self and others to break disruptive patterns.
My ex-wife is INTJ and my present wife is ISFJ. My ex does not like to discuss all of what she calls my woo woo interests, including personality typing insights because they can not be explained logically and with scientific studies. I do lots of "spiritual" work and she just didn't buy any of it. She is athiest and doesn't want to be bothered with any spiritual concepts. Thus, our conversations were very limited.
My present wife is ISFJ. We share similar values on most things. She doesn't do "abstract" very well, so our discussions on all of the spiritual topics are quite one-sided. However, they greatly interest her. She loves to work with channelers, crystals, and lots of other topics. She gets very bored when I get deeply involved in the topics that really turn me on, such as personality typing issues.
Overall, I am more compatible with my current wife than my ex. However, I have a great relationship with my ex. We see each other weekly, and as long as we discuss topics that don't trigger her woo woo alarm, we enjoy each other's company. Many aspects of life, however, go better with my ISFJ wife. She tends to be quite controlling, but I work around that without too much effort.
I think also ISFJ's, due to higher Fe, are more affectionate than INTJ's. ISFJ/INFJ relationships, once you find a way past the Si verses Ni divide, those Fe, Ti common functions really kick in to make it a good relationship. We INFJ's have to get our abstract conversations satisfied somewhere else, and that's OK.
My wife is an ISFJ and while I can see how she is similar to INFJs, with her kind of “neurotic” relationship with group harmony, or her aversion to Te related tasks like administrative work or indifference towards titles etc, the largest difference is apparent during “philosophic” discussion. Not only does she maintain that philosophy is pointless, when she is put in conversations of an abstract or theoretical nature she can really only entertain those ideas for 10 or so minutes before she becomes frustrated or politely exits the discussion due to disinterest. Her strengths lie in other areas.
I enjoyed this video Ren. I think a lot about the comparisons you made between ISFJ, INFJ, ENFJ, INTJ's. I would add in INFP/ENFP in the mix too as the group of types I get along with best, and am attracted to most.
Good vid Ren, I have an ISFJ student and it's fascinating how different we are. When I told her that I could tell a lot about a person just by apprehending them, she said 'that's impossible!' Well, I know it's possible and that I'm right about my assumptions more than I am wrong. I do find I can relate well with her through Fe and now I know Ti as well. Cheers🙂🙂
Despite my two of my family members being predominant Si users, for whatever reason it takes me the longest time to understand the underlying logic of what makes Si users function, although I have came to conclusion that it is really similar to Ni, although its focus is on a completely different plane of existence
9:56 yes, please! It sounds so interesting. Thank you for this video btw, so informative
I'm in a household full of Si-users, esp my ISFJ mom. Thank you so much for breaking down and describing the cause of the little yet sometimes exhaustive clashes we had throughout the years. It had been nagging my mind for a long time. I showed this to my INFP sister and boom! She relates to Si 😂 But her Ni-id intrudes her mind first before Si child function kicks in quickly. But I’m lucky that my close Si-users aren't that dismissive of my Ni for years now. They grounded me and I grounded them.
The differences between Si-Ti and Si-Fi are visceral from what I experienced, which makes sense why INFPs and ENFPs tend to understand us better since we use extroverted version of their introverted pair. I wonder if you had delve into it before in past videos. If not, I hope you’d take this topic into consideration :]
Perception dictates your world view while judging functions affect your actual interactions with others a lot more directly. I've very rarely found an ISFJ with whom communication hasn't been smooth and easy provided the topic at hand isn't affected by our world view. If I keep topics close to what an ISFJ will feel at home with then it's smooth sailing. This requires a constant effort to keep abstraction to a minimum but aren't we used to adapting ourselves to different people anyway? With INTJs the fact that we share dominant Ni and our world view/mutual understanding based on that is so close means that we'll feel really connected to them but we can definitely have break downs in communication when the judging functions eventually clash.
Si is based on subjectivity with all the problem that created (flawed societal systems, beliefs and traditions) while Ni is based on searching for objective truths through Se. In this sense, I agree Si is less ‘concrete’.
I used to know an ISFJ well and I could see the differences between us. They were quite traditional and limited in intellectual powers. There were frequent misunderstandings.
Without doubt the INFJ is behaviorally most similar to the ISFJ with their overall vibe. The only type I could consistently mix up. The ENFJ is a close second but their extroversion and Se forcefulness makes it not so hard to differentiate still. INFP or INTJ seem to not even be in the same ballpark as far as behavior goes.
Generally from this I discovered that each type behaves most similarly to the type that share their 2nd and 3rd functions with.
(This is most likely because our first 3 functions tend to be the strongest, and the ISFJ is the only one that has 2 of these 3 functions in the exact same place as us, unlike any other type, + they have an introverted judging function as dominant as well, aka the ISFJ is the type we have most in common with directly)
*I understand though that many INFJ's will have a need to associate with INTJ or ENFJ more as they are more popular types and makes them feel cooler, but in all honesty we seem to be substantially more like ISFJ's.
Fascinating thank you. My closest friends fall into intj, infp and isfj types. My strongest and most harmonious friendships are with the intj and infps... I find my isfj friends to be a little too black and white and rigid (in my opinion) in their approach and their inability for any cognitive perspective taking is incredibly frustrating to me... There is a lot of effort that goes into agreeing to disagree 😂 though I love them all equally.
None of my friends have been picked as it were based on their type! Do people do that? They are in my life because of events, time and circumstance... and despite all our differences I wouldn't ever want to lose the rich tapestry of love, perspective and vision they bring, and knowing them (sometimes working extra hard to 'get' them) hopefully make me a better person 😊
My best friend is an ISFJ so I have noticed a pretty tremendous compatibility and acceptance there. I think there is something about having the same judging functions prioritized in the same way (albeit fed by different perceiving functions) that offers a unique form of comradery. It is similar to interactions I've viewed between INTJs and ISTJs.
I do think that it is quite illuminating to point out the inversion of the Ti functions (how are these different vs how are these alike). I wonder how inferior Ne informs all of this? As the strength of the dominant function is always fed by the inferior (unconscious) function. The Ne-Si axis is admittedly one of the most difficult ones for me to grasp, especially in Si doms. Is it similar then to the often tabboo or fetishistic relationships that Ni doms have with present reality?
Ne seems to me to be very preoccupied with possibility and finds novelty rewarding and pleasurable. Idk. Is that part of thr nominalization process? Like, i dunno, something about seeing the possibility vectors of phenomena (Ne) causes you to use Ti to differentiate rather than synthesize? Something like "these two things have different possibility trajectory indexes and therefore are NOT the same"?
Idk. Just spitballing. Very good video!