I read this INFJ meme on Instragram and I think it is sorta related to the INFJ loneliness/solitude condition. "I'm starved for connection, not attention." From my experience, I can live without any face-to-face human contact for a long period of time. The thing is without any human connection, I can dive deeper in my head and get stuck badly in the Ni-Ti Loop. So I get some human interaction occasionally to keep my thinking on a healthy track.
Ren's Room Have you done a video on Ni-Ti loop yet? I was also wondering if you ever experience, and this may be related to Ni-Ti loop, a sense of dissociation from your self and/or feelings. Most days I don’t even recognize my feelings (despite being a Feeler) because I’m so lost in my thoughts all the time! It’s almost as if I have to give voice to my rather convoluted feelings before I know them, which is related to Fe, but maybe you have other thoughts or solutions on this topic. I’d like to know how to f-e-e-l again haha. Thanks.
@@wandering248 think so often we have learned to deny ourselves, whether emotional or physical. We are often able to deeply empathize with others, and yet a part of us feels unworthy of the same kind of empathy that we give others.
40 year old infj. Almost 20 years living as a recluse. I have an illness also, so I can mask my reclusivity with the symptoms of my disease and use it as an excuse to hide away. My only social interaction is with Doctors and other patients that I meet along the way. I have met the nicest people in hospital and I enjoy their company so much. It saddens me to think of how much I have missed out on." I rely on the kindness of strangers ", I read that line in a book once . It resonates. This life is unfortunately full of suffering, it's unbearable at times. Feeling so disconnected and like a visitor from another world. It's like being a person who is always watching others live their lives, but has no right to join the world in its ways.
I hope you are finding like minded hearts and souls on the internet. Know it is quite different than actual physical contact, but figure that sometimes it may be easier to find people that actually understand and connect to you on a deeper level.
So true! When I'm alone I kind of miss being with others... and when I'm with others, even if I'm enjoying myself, I fantasise about being in my bedroom chilling. Always this mild sense of dissatisfaction...
I think a lot of us may well feel loneliest when WITH other people. We need understanding and meaningful connections and I know that I personally can put on my chameleon suit and throw myself into social situations BUT only for a very limited time as i start to feel like an alien quite quickly in shallow, hedonistic activities.
As an INFJ, i do enjoy my alone time where i can deep dive into my mind but if it goes on for a longer period i get stuck in my thoughts and i keep on going deeper and deeper and i get lost. Creating a connection with someone helps sort of charge my extroverted side but it also drains my battery to be social because at the end of the day i would like to spend a little time with myself and my thoughts to gather everything.
One of the reasons I come to this and other you tube sites I feel an identity with IS a feeling of loneliness. As an INFJ I feel a sense of belonging that I don’t often feel elsewhere.
I agree with your analyst, Ren. When I feel a bit lonely, I like to be around people but in a more public environment; like a library or a mall, the outer corners of the food court is a safe place for me because its not too noisy or populated with people. Just an example. Or maybe sitting in the park on a sunny day helps me to feel connected to other humans. People watching is a habit I do enjoy. lol
I agree with the public environment....for me one of the best is a book store with other people who also enjoy books but who are strangers who don’t require my direct attention. Still I know we have a connection.
I believe people who speak of lonely often tend to be the same people who don't enjoy all of their emotions. I didn't always feel this way, it was a growing experience. All my emotions I enjoy, wether it be lonely, angry, loved, happiness, heartbreak, sadness...It is the roller coaster of life, an each experience brings us each a knowledge of self.
Loneliness is part of the human condition, for all personality types. But as INFJ's we feel this dichotomy intensely. You are correct about many parts of it, and coming to terms with it in a world run by extroverts is challenging. We long to feel understood and have that deeper connection, yet it is very hard to find. Instead of struggling we should be thankful that we can recharge and know ourselves enough to value our differences, and reach out when possible to those who know us and hopefully love and understand us. If not possible, there's always RUclips!!
This is the reason why I'm watching your RUclips videos tonight and not out socialising in the real world. It is definitely that feeling of being understood that people crave. I believe there are only a handful of people in my life who I feel understand me on a level close to my core (usually ENFP's, INFP's that I have typed). Even still, I don't feel like I truly understand myself so how could I possibly expect others to do so? Thanks for the videos Ren. I'm certain they bring many people great satisfaction.
I do think the loneliness relates to Ni-Se. Ni is universal but also very individualistic and doesn't seem to be as understood or valued as other functions. Undeveloped Se can make it difficult to be in the present moment with others and perhaps have pleasure. Ni is the INFJ's natural comfort zone. Fe can bring some fulfillment if I am helping others but I also get drained by using it. I feel the tug of war. Its a tug between wanting connection and self preservation. I wouldn't say solitude is equal to loneliness. I have felt lonely with people at times. Disclosure and validation/understanding from others helps limit loneliness. I love my solitude. I could spend most of the day by myself if I have something to do. But then I need that interaction with deep connection for a bit of the day to keep me motivated and better mood. I think anyone can feel lonely but finding others who connect at Ni dom/aux level is harder to find due to low population of them in society. Even then, its still very internal and not the same as a shared Se experience or shared Si tradition or shared Te goals or Ti logic discussion etc.
"Don't feel lonely, Loneliness kills all the thrill from standing alone" - Tove Lo, from the song "Scars" I think I understand where you are coming from, especially what you talk about in the second half of the video. I never feel lonely when I am in solitude, I only feel lonely when I am with my family and friends. At least now (I'm 41, married with children), that may have been different when I was in my 20's and single. My favorite time to be is when everyone in the house is asleep and I can escape into my own self for a time. But when everyone is awake and talking to me and interacting with me, these are the times when I feel some of the greatest bouts of loneliness. More so, when I take the time to get together with my friends. I do get the urge to just go out to a friend's house for a small gathering, and often I leave feeling sadder, more alone, for having gone than if I had decided against it. And I've never really been able to put my finger on why that was the case. From what you say, I think it is the "understanding from others" which may be the cause. I usually feel like I am there, but not there, heard, but not heard. When I have mentioned this to people they act like I'm crazy. I'm not really sure how all the mental functions interact together, but I'm wondering if there is anything that would mitigate this effect. Or is this just something that some people feel due to their cognitive structure and must learn to live with it?
I’d second the importance of people getting you, however, that’s the crux of the problem. In my circle I can talk with my friends and have them carefully listen to what I’m saying but not get any feedback that they’ve understood for 5 years. The lag in the connection is frustrating. Over the years my expectations have shifted and my desire and expectation for immediate understanding in conversation have relaxed. A teacher I greatly admire would tell his audience that what he was about to tell them would be incomprehensible to them then but when they had matured in a few years they would get it. I have a friend that gets me more than most who has shared some books by authors like T. A. Sparks which he considers to be very deep and fundamental to his understanding of life. After reading the introduction I told him that I already understood the book, he was flabbergasted as though the contents were so profound that no one could reproduce accurately the message yet in the decades since its publication countless individuals have done just that and proceeded to teach others. So just reading the introduction, which if well written accurately summarizes the book, I was reminded of all the teaching I had heard on the topic. The issue we face is that others in our circle haven’t had the same exposure, or perhaps interest enough in, certain topics to give them time to digest what’s already out there and potentially form their own perspective. I have one friend who contemplates the same types of things as me and when we talk he will sometimes comment about having understood the same thing I had come to only a few years earlier and I have similar experiences on the reverse as well. I really value that friendship even though our contact is sparse these days.
This fits me also. I tend to feel loneliest with people. I too love being awake when everyone else is asleep. I have feelings of guilt for wanting so much time away from family. I do have friends with whom I feel understood and comfortable but I want only one friend and I....and I usually want to be where there are not other people interrupting while we are out, for lunch for example.
Wow, you said that perfectly.. That's what I experience daily . I'm 47 and it seems to become more intense the older I get. I seek solitude to alleviate my loneliness.
I feel like when I am around people, I struggle to even call them friends until I have this connection and complete comfortability around them. If that doesn't happen quickly, I feel like I would rather just push them away and be completely by myself rather than keeping the relationship. Then I feel like I don't give people a chance... and have hardly anybody in my life. I have ONE person other than my family who I am this close to.
As an INFJ love solitude, as I get to think, do my things which I like reading, listening to music and do all my chores. But like to be connected to humans, but the point is there are hardly very few who understand us. Nice video with a good topic.
Introverted intuition by its very nature separates its user from others by way of its abstracting process. In a way the intuitive's experience of the world and of human interaction is mediated through a real-time reflective lens that automatically creates distance between his energy and that of those with whom he shares the same space, resulting in a sense of division, misunderstanding, and "loneliness". I can remember many times in my life in group settings where I experienced the alone-in-a-crowd feeling. While most people experience the moment as it is, naturally exchanging words and jumping in to whatever the group activity is at the time, I often find myself experiencing not the moment itself but an abstraction of the moment. For example, if there are tensions in the group, or if there is an energetic shift that points toward something negative or destructive, I experience a breakdown of balance in the environment, or perhaps I'll even experience feelings associated with a potential long-term outcome of the present situation, such as guilt or sadness on behalf of those I'm with. The fascinating thing is that such tensions or energetic shifts can happen with no one else even having any awareness of what's going, and whatever "outcome" I'm responding to on an intuitive level may not even occur. As such, I feel misplaced and inauthentic in the environment. I imagine this kind of experience is common to INFJs and happens pretty much all the time when we allow ourselves to live authentically, but given the subtle, sub-conscious way in which Ni operates, we don't always recognize or understand what's going on. It's a source of endless internal confusion for the INFJ. The irony of it is that we can be so engaged in the reality of what's happening (we're tapping into a higher truth, in a way) yet feel completely separate because no one else seems to pick up on it.
I've got to admit this got me a little emotional. I've tried explaining this before but it never seems to suffice. I can't express it in a way that I think most people could fully grasp. I started to feel your explanation, if that makes any sense. It's still lacking in a sense but by no fault of your own. I thought you did an excellent job. I just don't know if it could ever really be conveyed fully. I really do appreciate the effort involved here. It was very well thought out.
When the pandemic surfaced , my sons were in unsafe areas that were overcrowded so they came here. It felt good that they were safe but I still found ways to get alone and create. I love the interaction but also like being alone. Luckily they are the same way. I was never was conscious of doing that all of my life until information on personalities came to light for me this year. I just slipped away for quiet or buried myself in a book. I didn’t feel guilty about it because I was very present at other times. When alone I do connect with living things on my property and neighbors to some degree (I don’t accept every invitation or if I do wish to go home after a couple of hours.) I was always more comfortable with parties at my house but I still slip away here and there. I wanted very much love connections before but now view that very cautiously. My world is perfect when I have kind interactions and have found myself in negative places. I don’t trust my feelings. I do have I think a genetic response to adrenaline-it doesn’t scare or bother me.
My experience is that in order for me to be alone for a long period of time, I need to know that I have a stable friend group that I can go connect with any time. I do not have that right now so I am suffering from Ni-Ti loop and deep depression. Thank you for this video Renaud!
@6:00, Ren is going against all types of stereotypes. He does this with such charisma that others would be harshly penalized for delivering the same message.. Good stuff, brother
I go for a trail run in the forest around a single track loop around and around and often times get to chat to other nature walkers when we meet and stop to make passing room. Everybody is looking for someone to talk to and the single track makes the perfect opportunity where everyone is feeling good out walking in the forest.
As an INFJ,I would say I like to be alone but only need to 'check in' from time to time with others to share some thoughts or feelings. I prefer alone than lonely, which seems like a negative word,alone let's me recharge when I can't handle too much external stimulus or 'noise'. Interesting your comments about alcohol,I went straight edge(3 years) and vegan (7 years) ago. I found alcohol to both 'get me out of my shell' which after much analysis is not ideal for an INFJ personality but also to lead me to bad choices or reactions to people or their differences in general. I have no regrets though,I just learn to listen to my thoughts and feelings and interact with others when I have a genuine interest in what they can offer or help improve me.
I'm a vegan INFJ as well. Since exploring MBTI videos on RUclips, I've noticed a small trend of vegan INFJs. It makes sense. However, becoming vegan has at times intensified my INFJ loneliness. When speaking of veganism to people who are rigid and cannot see (or more often UNWILLING to see) my point of view, it separates me more. It again feels like I cannot be understood and I am isolated. All the while fueling my anger, frustration, and sadness surrounding WHY I am vegan in the first place. The injustice to the animals. My heart breaks for them over and over again. I wish the world could feel through my heart and see through my eyes, to understand, and to change. Yep. I'm an INFJ all right.. 💔
I found myself wishing you'd look directly into your camera when you described how loneliness feels to you. It made it feel even more lonely that your gaze is rarely direct.
Renaud, I personally think that ( in my opinion) there are a differences between solitude and loneliness. I enjoy, and need, my solitude but that doesn’t make me feel lonely, if I feel lonely, then it’s often turns into clinical depression with me. I’m quite content if someone is home with me, even we do our own different things, in different rooms, but knowing that someone is close, is enough for me.
Totally agree with you !! One thing that makes me feel lonely is being misunderstood... One thing that could be interesting to reflect about is the impact of social media when we are alone, does it prevent us to "recharge ourselves" well ? I use them a lot because I don't want to be alone and I wander what kind of place it takes and the effect that it makes
I enjoy how you are articulating how I am day to day. I do enjoy solitude but there are times when it seems you discharge all of your social outlet all at the same time, and that is lonely. I can describe the reasons why I have taken a separation from some friends, and a good enough reason for departing but it won't explain why it is a lot at one time.
I’ve always hated how people tell me I Need to learn to be okay being alone. But I never have been okay being alone because I was alone most of my life in the way that my family was broken and never made me feel anything but alone in a big world.
That's the PERSON, not people in essence. The persona of people, is what causes all trouble there is. There is no trouble beyond the object of personhood. But yes, I agree.
I have felt 'alone' in some ways practically all my life. I sense the depth to things all the time, where most other people don't seem to. It's like an ultra-awareness of people's motivations, and a desire to rise above them. I am very sensitive and have a strong desire to 'make things better', while also having the tendency to get lost in my own dreams/thoughts. I seek understanding, I love understanding. I should have studied psychology when young, as I find it fascinating. I think it also manifests as needing more than what many people seek in life. I see many people and think, how can they be happy?? I think happiness for INFJs is a challenge. I see happiness only in success in something special, something I see as meaningful and worthwhile, as well as good personal relationships.
Hello. i'm new to your channel, first video actually. and i already felt the need to put up a 'quote comment' (dun dun dunnnn...) *“Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.”* i have never come across a better understanding or definition of loneliness in my years. though if you are discussing "INFJ's" then i assume you probably know this quote already, as you would most likely have to know Carl Jung's work at least a bit to be discussing this topic, and this quote is one of his best known. but it is SO (extraordinarily) accurate and insightful in regards to 'loneliness' that i had to mention it here. (btw, please excuse all grammar/spelling mistakes, thank you.)
There are 4 people in my life that I am truly connected to...my husband and 3 children. If they were to ever leave this world I would be extremely lonely as they are the only ones who let me be me and make me feel understood.
I have to say that I can only ever recall experiencing a feeling that I would describe as loneliness whilst on my own on two occasions in the past, and in both cases (I won't bore anyone with the details here!), this was probably as a result of an unusual combination of factors that happened to occur at the same time. I do understand the feeling of disconnect whilst in the company of others all the same - and yet I have never attributed the term loneliness to this kind of experience, personally speaking. It may seem that I am going off on a tangent here, but I'd like to ask a question that may help me to understand my relation to the external world in some way (whilst contributing to my knowledge of MBTI typology at the same time.) Am I correct in saying that fe as a function is in effect something like an orientation: something that is just felt to be very present; something that is, in and of itself, a blank slate of sorts, in it's very essence - a kind of tabula rasa upon which qualities such as empathy are then impressed? (for want of a better term.)
@@RensRoom The reason I ask is that taking all of the RUclips videos I've seen on the subject so far as a whole, I'm left with the impression that to have fe positioned high in their stack, then an individual must walk around feeling the emotions of others all of the time, and have such a desire for harmony that they go around defusing arguments between others all of the time - and there isn't much more to it than that. But I'm sure that there is much more to it than that. The point I'm trying to get to is one where I'm able to distill what each of the functions represent in a mental impression of some kind, so that whenever I encounter any new situation I'm easily able to identify the function at play, and differentiate this function from another. I have seen at least some of your material on fe, but what I saw didn't manage to get me to reach a point where I'm able to say with absolute certainty that I am in no doubt as to what this function is (as opposed to it's opposite.) I believe this is more to do with something at my end though. And I'm pretty sure that I know what the reasons are. Anyway, thanks Ren - I'll have another look!
Eu certa vez entrei num relacionamento, o sujeito foi encantador nos primeiros dias e depois se mostrou um manipulador. Eu já tinha aceitado a proposta de casamento e não queria voltar atrás porque a pressão familiar seria grande, então mesmo decepcionada ativei o modo camaleão. Eu tinha 28 anos e queria acabar com o tema 'casamento' na minha vida. As pessoas torturavam minha mente por eu ser solteira. Nunca me senti tão desesperadamente sozinha do que com ele. Depois que ele perecebeu que eu não voltaria atrás na decisão, se tornou arrogante, cínico; me fazia perambular por shoppings e restaurantes de cidades grandes sem nenhum objetivo específico. Era fútil, mostrava-se cada dia mais sem princípios, e não tínhamos conversas interessantes. Queria mudar meu estilo de vida, desprezava minha história, minha fé; tomava decisões por mim. Entrei numa angústia tão grande que não reagia, apenas um turbilhão de pensamentos e fui me levando. Ele era estrangeiro e por causa do sotaque um moço não conseguiu atender corretamente o pedido na máquina de sorvete, nem eu estava entendendo... fez um escândalo, humilhou o rapaz. Em seguida convidei ele para ir a uma igreja: estou precisando. A resposta dele: vá você! Estavamos numa cidade grande o dia todo andando sem rumo e sem objetivo! Fui em todos os lugares que ele queria. Enfim fomos a uma loja comprar alianças, senti uma tempestade dentro de mim. O vendedor percebeu minha angústia e perguntou se eu estava bem... Ele foi escolhendo e eu fui concordando. Parece que só consegui respirar quando saimos da loja. Eu pensava: meu Deus não é um pai assim que quero para os meus filhos! Pedi a Deus para que fizesse algo para que ele terminasse porque eu não queria voltar atrás. Ele apareceu na minha casa com a mãe dele, a mulher veio me dizer como eu deveria me vestir... Foi um momento em que eu perdi o controle: chorei, briguei com ela.. E terminamos.😢 Foi traumático, fiquei um tempo como que num estresse pós-traumático. Conheci outras pessoas, mas ninguém me ofereceu mais do que a solidão. Hoje eu tenho 41 anos, sou solteira e desfruto da solidão saudável que a liberdade me traz.
I'm curious about the idea of certain types being somewhat ambivert. If Fi and Fe are how we relate to people (the naive conception of introversion and extraversion), then to what extent can it be said that infj, isfj, enfp and esfp are all somwhat liminal examples of introverts and extraverts respectively? That is, fi secondaries and fe secondaries will all have both extraverted and intraverted traits. And how, then, do these four ambivert types relate? How does the experience, say, of an esfp relate to that of an infj?
Bonjour Renaud! Merci pour le décorticage très intéressant de cette dualité permanente entre désir de solitude et de socialisation. Je suis intriguée : qu'est-ce qui t'amène à penser que ce ressenti est propre aux INFJ plutôt qu'aux introvertis de manière plus large ? Ton frère INFP, par exemple, n'éprouve-t-il pas ce que tu décris ici? Salutations depuis le Var ! :)
You choose soltitude by yourself, maybe through cricumstances. But loneliness is more like being left alone and sometimes I feel loneliness in my soltitude especially when I am just short of getting a grasp of a bigger picture. And long time I have thought it is the soltitude thats making me lonely but it is more like feeling left alone by your own thoughts...and it is frustrating and feeds my low self esteem, but I need this time alone by myself so its ok. But most of the time it is with others and I don't know if the loneliness feeling comes from the people who can't grasp what you try to say, or my inability to explain it.. And when you try to go deeper it is even more impossible to get through but you have to go further away and rotate and that takes time.. and when you try next day to speak about such a topic they alrdy have forgotten it and the loneliness kicks in, because I feel like "how can you forget such interesting thoughts..." .. well... at least I tried ;)
When I'm alone, I feel I'm free. With all of my thoughts, memories and imagination. But if I feel lonely thats probably my mother's feeling that I'm detecting since we always short on money. 😁
As an INFJ woman the best thing that i ever did was develop a strong relationship with myself and God. I'm a very spiritual person non religious. I don't feel lonely because of the life choices i have made. I really enjoy my solitude as I use it as ME time to relax, learn, process, explore and become a better human being, and then i am very very picky with whom i choose to be friends. Im 48 and I have 3 very close friends whom I can trust with my life, it took me a long time to build those relationships as I have the ability to read people exceptionally well and well most people are just disgusting two faced liars and users, but not all. I also met a wonderful man who turned out to be the love of my life 6 months ago...but it all stars with you having a strong relationship with yourself first and beginning the healing journey with any trauma you may have. Good luck to everyone I wish you every happiness and success in life!
I read this INFJ meme on Instragram and I think it is sorta related to the INFJ loneliness/solitude condition. "I'm starved for connection, not attention." From my experience, I can live without any face-to-face human contact for a long period of time. The thing is without any human connection, I can dive deeper in my head and get stuck badly in the Ni-Ti Loop. So I get some human interaction occasionally to keep my thinking on a healthy track.
Yes, the Ni-Ti loop is always lurking for us INFJs... I also often feel starved for connection.
Ren's Room Have you done a video on Ni-Ti loop yet? I was also wondering if you ever experience, and this may be related to Ni-Ti loop, a sense of dissociation from your self and/or feelings. Most days I don’t even recognize my feelings (despite being a Feeler) because I’m so lost in my thoughts all the time! It’s almost as if I have to give voice to my rather convoluted feelings before I know them, which is related to Fe, but maybe you have other thoughts or solutions on this topic. I’d like to know how to f-e-e-l again haha. Thanks.
That is the way to describe it.
Gosh, you described it so well. Thanks!
@@wandering248 think so often we have learned to deny ourselves, whether emotional or physical. We are often able to deeply empathize with others, and yet a part of us feels unworthy of the same kind of empathy that we give others.
40 year old infj. Almost 20 years living as a recluse. I have an illness also, so I can mask my reclusivity with the symptoms of my disease and use it as an excuse to hide away.
My only social interaction is with Doctors and other patients that I meet along the way. I have met the nicest people in hospital and I enjoy their company so much. It saddens me to think of how much I have missed out on." I rely on the kindness of strangers ", I read that line in a book once . It resonates.
This life is unfortunately full of suffering, it's unbearable at times.
Feeling so disconnected and like a visitor from another world.
It's like being a person who is always watching others live their lives, but has no right to join the world in its ways.
This comment made me cry. As a fellow INFJ, I can connect with it.
Hugs
I hope you are finding like minded hearts and souls on the internet. Know it is quite different than actual physical contact, but figure that sometimes it may be easier to find people that actually understand and connect to you on a deeper level.
Breakthru the wall. Take action in a small way with someone that appears kind and understanding. Trust your intuition in this process. Go slow. ENFP.
So true! When I'm alone I kind of miss being with others... and when I'm with others, even if I'm enjoying myself, I fantasise about being in my bedroom chilling. Always this mild sense of dissatisfaction...
I relate! Oh and I'm coming to Ireland soon, hehe :) I can't wait!
@@RensRoom 😮
lol
This is crazy, exactly what I feel like: I carve going to parties, then regret going there and wish to be alone in my room !
Solitude is regeneration. Loneliness is a soul killer.
Your struggle to express how we feel was compelling. Thank you.
I think a lot of us may well feel loneliest when WITH other people. We need understanding and meaningful connections and I know that I personally can put on my chameleon suit and throw myself into social situations BUT only for a very limited time as i start to feel like an alien quite quickly in shallow, hedonistic activities.
As an INFJ, i do enjoy my alone time where i can deep dive into my mind but if it goes on for a longer period i get stuck in my thoughts and i keep on going deeper and deeper and i get lost. Creating a connection with someone helps sort of charge my extroverted side but it also drains my battery to be social because at the end of the day i would like to spend a little time with myself and my thoughts to gather everything.
One of the reasons I come to this and other you tube sites I feel an identity with IS a feeling of loneliness. As an INFJ I feel a sense of belonging that I don’t often feel elsewhere.
This is so well described. Sometimes I need to withdraw to solitude, but soon go out to some random caffe where there are people, just to be nearby.
Thanks Davorin!
I agree with your analyst, Ren. When I feel a bit lonely, I like to be around people but in a more public environment; like a library or a mall, the outer corners of the food court is a safe place for me because its not too noisy or populated with people. Just an example. Or maybe sitting in the park on a sunny day helps me to feel connected to other humans. People watching is a habit I do enjoy. lol
It's a habit I enjoy too ;)
I agree with the public environment....for me one of the best is a book store with other people who also enjoy books but who are strangers who don’t require my direct attention. Still I know we have a connection.
Am I alone? Yes.
Am I lonely? No.
--An INFJt-Empath
I believe people who speak of lonely often tend to be the same people who don't enjoy all of their emotions. I didn't always feel this way, it was a growing experience. All my emotions I enjoy, wether it be lonely, angry, loved, happiness, heartbreak, sadness...It is the roller coaster of life, an each experience brings us each a knowledge of self.
Whenever I’m with others I want to be alone, and whenever I’m alone I want to be with others.
Very relatable, Seth.
Loneliness is part of the human condition, for all personality types. But as INFJ's we feel this dichotomy intensely. You are correct about many parts of it, and coming to terms with it in a world run by extroverts is challenging. We long to feel understood and have that deeper connection, yet it is very hard to find. Instead of struggling we should be thankful that we can recharge and know ourselves enough to value our differences, and reach out when possible to those who know us and hopefully love and understand us. If not possible, there's always RUclips!!
Indeed :) thanks Sarah!
This is the reason why I'm watching your RUclips videos tonight and not out socialising in the real world. It is definitely that feeling of being understood that people crave. I believe there are only a handful of people in my life who I feel understand me on a level close to my core (usually ENFP's, INFP's that I have typed). Even still, I don't feel like I truly understand myself so how could I possibly expect others to do so? Thanks for the videos Ren. I'm certain they bring many people great satisfaction.
Thank you Chris, I’m glad my content resonates with you ;-)
I do think the loneliness relates to Ni-Se. Ni is universal but also very individualistic and doesn't seem to be as understood or valued as other functions. Undeveloped Se can make it difficult to be in the present moment with others and perhaps have pleasure. Ni is the INFJ's natural comfort zone. Fe can bring some fulfillment if I am helping others but I also get drained by using it. I feel the tug of war. Its a tug between wanting connection and self preservation. I wouldn't say solitude is equal to loneliness. I have felt lonely with people at times. Disclosure and validation/understanding from others helps limit loneliness. I love my solitude. I could spend most of the day by myself if I have something to do. But then I need that interaction with deep connection for a bit of the day to keep me motivated and better mood. I think anyone can feel lonely but finding others who connect at Ni dom/aux level is harder to find due to low population of them in society. Even then, its still very internal and not the same as a shared Se experience or shared Si tradition or shared Te goals or Ti logic discussion etc.
I agree with this completely. The in-depth Ni connection is rarely made because of its sheer rarity.
Yes. 🙌 I love how you put this into words. I relate so much and agree with your perspective.
"Don't feel lonely, Loneliness kills all the thrill from standing alone" - Tove Lo, from the song "Scars"
I think I understand where you are coming from, especially what you talk about in the second half of the video. I never feel lonely when I am in solitude, I only feel lonely when I am with my family and friends. At least now (I'm 41, married with children), that may have been different when I was in my 20's and single. My favorite time to be is when everyone in the house is asleep and I can escape into my own self for a time. But when everyone is awake and talking to me and interacting with me, these are the times when I feel some of the greatest bouts of loneliness. More so, when I take the time to get together with my friends. I do get the urge to just go out to a friend's house for a small gathering, and often I leave feeling sadder, more alone, for having gone than if I had decided against it. And I've never really been able to put my finger on why that was the case. From what you say, I think it is the "understanding from others" which may be the cause. I usually feel like I am there, but not there, heard, but not heard. When I have mentioned this to people they act like I'm crazy. I'm not really sure how all the mental functions interact together, but I'm wondering if there is anything that would mitigate this effect. Or is this just something that some people feel due to their cognitive structure and must learn to live with it?
I’d second the importance of people getting you, however, that’s the crux of the problem. In my circle I can talk with my friends and have them carefully listen to what I’m saying but not get any feedback that they’ve understood for 5 years. The lag in the connection is frustrating. Over the years my expectations have shifted and my desire and expectation for immediate understanding in conversation have relaxed. A teacher I greatly admire would tell his audience that what he was about to tell them would be incomprehensible to them then but when they had matured in a few years they would get it. I have a friend that gets me more than most who has shared some books by authors like T. A. Sparks which he considers to be very deep and fundamental to his understanding of life. After reading the introduction I told him that I already understood the book, he was flabbergasted as though the contents were so profound that no one could reproduce accurately the message yet in the decades since its publication countless individuals have done just that and proceeded to teach others. So just reading the introduction, which if well written accurately summarizes the book, I was reminded of all the teaching I had heard on the topic. The issue we face is that others in our circle haven’t had the same exposure, or perhaps interest enough in, certain topics to give them time to digest what’s already out there and potentially form their own perspective. I have one friend who contemplates the same types of things as me and when we talk he will sometimes comment about having understood the same thing I had come to only a few years earlier and I have similar experiences on the reverse as well. I really value that friendship even though our contact is sparse these days.
This fits me also. I tend to feel loneliest with people. I too love being awake when everyone else is asleep. I have feelings of guilt for wanting so much time away from family. I do have friends with whom I feel understood and comfortable but I want only one friend and I....and I usually want to be where there are not other people interrupting while we are out, for lunch for example.
Wow, you said that perfectly.. That's what I experience daily . I'm 47 and it seems to become more intense the older I get. I seek solitude to alleviate my loneliness.
I feel like when I am around people, I struggle to even call them friends until I have this connection and complete comfortability around them. If that doesn't happen quickly, I feel like I would rather just push them away and be completely by myself rather than keeping the relationship. Then I feel like I don't give people a chance... and have hardly anybody in my life. I have ONE person other than my family who I am this close to.
I have that too. Go deep or go home :)
As an INFJ love solitude, as I get to think, do my things which I like reading, listening to music and do all my chores.
But like to be connected to humans, but the point is there are hardly very few who understand us.
Nice video with a good topic.
Introverted intuition by its very nature separates its user from others by way of its abstracting process. In a way the intuitive's experience of the world and of human interaction is mediated through a real-time reflective lens that automatically creates distance between his energy and that of those with whom he shares the same space, resulting in a sense of division, misunderstanding, and "loneliness". I can remember many times in my life in group settings where I experienced the alone-in-a-crowd feeling. While most people experience the moment as it is, naturally exchanging words and jumping in to whatever the group activity is at the time, I often find myself experiencing not the moment itself but an abstraction of the moment. For example, if there are tensions in the group, or if there is an energetic shift that points toward something negative or destructive, I experience a breakdown of balance in the environment, or perhaps I'll even experience feelings associated with a potential long-term outcome of the present situation, such as guilt or sadness on behalf of those I'm with. The fascinating thing is that such tensions or energetic shifts can happen with no one else even having any awareness of what's going, and whatever "outcome" I'm responding to on an intuitive level may not even occur. As such, I feel misplaced and inauthentic in the environment.
I imagine this kind of experience is common to INFJs and happens pretty much all the time when we allow ourselves to live authentically, but given the subtle, sub-conscious way in which Ni operates, we don't always recognize or understand what's going on. It's a source of endless internal confusion for the INFJ. The irony of it is that we can be so engaged in the reality of what's happening (we're tapping into a higher truth, in a way) yet feel completely separate because no one else seems to pick up on it.
I've got to admit this got me a little emotional. I've tried explaining this before but it never seems to suffice. I can't express it in a way that I think most people could fully grasp. I started to feel your explanation, if that makes any sense. It's still lacking in a sense but by no fault of your own. I thought you did an excellent job. I just don't know if it could ever really be conveyed fully. I really do appreciate the effort involved here. It was very well thought out.
When the pandemic surfaced , my sons were in unsafe areas that were overcrowded so they came here. It felt good that they were safe but I still found ways to get alone and create. I love the interaction but also like being alone. Luckily they are the same way.
I was never was conscious of doing that all of my life until information on personalities came to light for me this year. I just slipped away for quiet or buried myself in a book. I didn’t feel guilty about it because I was very present at other times.
When alone I do connect with living things on my property and neighbors to some degree (I don’t accept every invitation or if I do wish to go home after a couple of hours.) I was always more comfortable with parties at my house but I still slip away here and there.
I wanted very much love connections before but now view that very cautiously. My world is perfect when I have kind interactions and have found myself in negative places. I don’t trust my feelings. I do have I think a genetic response to adrenaline-it doesn’t scare or bother me.
This is so true. I love the way you have explained this. I have not been able to put it into words myself
My experience is that in order for me to be alone for a long period of time, I need to know that I have a stable friend group that I can go connect with any time. I do not have that right now so I am suffering from Ni-Ti loop and deep depression. Thank you for this video Renaud!
@6:00, Ren is going against all types of stereotypes. He does this with such charisma that others would be harshly penalized for delivering the same message.. Good stuff, brother
Thanks man! :)
HALFAMAZINGTV That’s Fe at work, saying something, but being considerate and keeping the peace.
@@JakeLikesJoking True!
I think this loneliness comes from people pleasing and forgetting ourselves.But it's so tiring fighting for yourself
I go for a trail run in the forest around a single track loop around and around and often times get to chat to other nature walkers when we meet and stop to make passing room. Everybody is looking for someone to talk to and the single track makes the perfect opportunity where everyone is feeling good out walking in the forest.
As an INFJ,I would say I like to be alone but only need to 'check in' from time to time with others to share some thoughts or feelings. I prefer alone than lonely, which seems like a negative word,alone let's me recharge when I can't handle too much external stimulus or 'noise'. Interesting your comments about alcohol,I went straight edge(3 years) and vegan (7 years) ago. I found alcohol to both 'get me out of my shell' which after much analysis is not ideal for an INFJ personality but also to lead me to bad choices or reactions to people or their differences in general. I have no regrets though,I just learn to listen to my thoughts and feelings and interact with others when I have a genuine interest in what they can offer or help improve me.
I'm a vegan INFJ as well. Since exploring MBTI videos on RUclips, I've noticed a small trend of vegan INFJs. It makes sense. However, becoming vegan has at times intensified my INFJ loneliness. When speaking of veganism to people who are rigid and cannot see (or more often UNWILLING to see) my point of view, it separates me more. It again feels like I cannot be understood and I am isolated. All the while fueling my anger, frustration, and sadness surrounding WHY I am vegan in the first place. The injustice to the animals. My heart breaks for them over and over again. I wish the world could feel through my heart and see through my eyes, to understand, and to change. Yep. I'm an INFJ all right.. 💔
What Tiffany said.
I found myself wishing you'd look directly into your camera when you described how loneliness feels to you. It made it feel even more lonely that your gaze is rarely direct.
Ren! I really connect to your videos. Among videos about INFJ’s, I find myself feeling understood when I watch yours. Keep it up
Renaud, I personally think that ( in my opinion) there are a differences between solitude and loneliness. I enjoy, and need, my solitude but that doesn’t make me feel lonely, if I feel lonely, then it’s often turns into clinical depression with me. I’m quite content if someone is home with me, even we do our own different things, in different rooms, but knowing that someone is close, is enough for me.
As an INFJ... I love your videos. Hope you keep on making more :) Thank you!
this one resonated so deeply, thank you
Perfect Ren. I Couldn't have described it any better.
Thank you :)
Totally agree with you !! One thing that makes me feel lonely is being misunderstood...
One thing that could be interesting to reflect about is the impact of social media when we are alone, does it prevent us to "recharge ourselves" well ? I use them a lot because I don't want to be alone and I wander what kind of place it takes and the effect that it makes
Waiting for your books in the mail 📪
I think the reason of an INFJ not being lonely, yet alone, is because we don't really miss people. We like them around us, but mre times NOT.
I enjoy how you are articulating how I am day to day. I do enjoy solitude but there are times when it seems you discharge all of your social outlet all at the same time, and that is lonely. I can describe the reasons why I have taken a separation from some friends, and a good enough reason for departing but it won't explain why it is a lot at one time.
I’ve always hated how people tell me I Need to learn to be okay being alone. But I never have been okay being alone because I was alone most of my life in the way that my family was broken and never made me feel anything but alone in a big world.
I get lonely, and so wish to have friends... then ironically spending time with friends causes me to feel more alone than before.
People are nothing but problems. Bad trouble, looking for a place to be.
Just find a place to be content.
That's the PERSON, not people in essence. The persona of people, is what causes all trouble there is. There is no trouble beyond the object of personhood. But yes, I agree.
Isn't that a bit too cynical?
I have felt 'alone' in some ways practically all my life. I sense the depth to things all the time, where most other people don't seem to. It's like an ultra-awareness of people's motivations, and a desire to rise above them. I am very sensitive and have a strong desire to 'make things better', while also having the tendency to get lost in my own dreams/thoughts. I seek understanding, I love understanding. I should have studied psychology when young, as I find it fascinating.
I think it also manifests as needing more than what many people seek in life. I see many people and think, how can they be happy?? I think happiness for INFJs is a challenge. I see happiness only in success in something special, something I see as meaningful and worthwhile, as well as good personal relationships.
It is not easy to switch between solitude and socializing for me. Yes we need both but give me gallons of solitude and drips of socializing.
Stranger in a strange land
My sentiments exactly
I can empathize.. This is exactly how it feels to be
Thank you :)
Hello. i'm new to your channel, first video actually. and i already felt the need to put up a 'quote comment' (dun dun dunnnn...)
*“Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.”* i have never come across a better understanding or definition of loneliness in my years. though if you are discussing "INFJ's" then i assume you probably know this quote already, as you would most likely have to know Carl Jung's work at least a bit to be discussing this topic, and this quote is one of his best known. but it is SO (extraordinarily) accurate and insightful in regards to 'loneliness' that i had to mention it here.
(btw, please excuse all grammar/spelling mistakes, thank you.)
Amazing insight!!!
Yes there's always a longing, nothing is fully satisfying , disconnect is a good term. It's like the head and the body exist in different realms....
I think you addressed what you were exploring in this video in your book The Ecstatic Soul.
There are 4 people in my life that I am truly connected to...my husband and 3 children. If they were to ever leave this world I would be extremely lonely as they are the only ones who let me be me and make me feel understood.
I have to say that I can only ever recall experiencing a feeling that I would describe as loneliness whilst on my own on two occasions in the past, and in both cases (I won't bore anyone with the details here!), this was probably as a result of an unusual combination of factors that happened to occur at the same time.
I do understand the feeling of disconnect whilst in the company of others all the same - and yet I have never attributed the term loneliness to this kind of experience, personally speaking.
It may seem that I am going off on a tangent here, but I'd like to ask a question that may help me to understand my relation to the external world in some way (whilst contributing to my knowledge of MBTI typology at the same time.)
Am I correct in saying that fe as a function is in effect something like an orientation: something that is just felt to be very present; something that is, in and of itself, a blank slate of sorts, in it's very essence - a kind of tabula rasa upon which qualities such as empathy are then impressed? (for want of a better term.)
Hi Laurence, yes that can apply to Fe but also to other functions - I've made a few videos on Fe that might be helpful?
@@RensRoom The reason I ask is that taking all of the RUclips videos I've seen on the subject so far as a whole, I'm left with the impression that to have fe positioned high in their stack, then an individual must walk around feeling the emotions of others all of the time, and have such a desire for harmony that they go around defusing arguments between others all of the time - and there isn't much more to it than that. But I'm sure that there is much more to it than that.
The point I'm trying to get to is one where I'm able to distill what each of the functions represent in a mental impression of some kind, so that whenever I encounter any new situation I'm easily able to identify the function at play, and differentiate this function from another. I have seen at least some of your material on fe, but what I saw didn't manage to get me to reach a point where I'm able to say with absolute certainty that I am in no doubt as to what this function is (as opposed to it's opposite.) I believe this is more to do with something at my end though. And I'm pretty sure that I know what the reasons are. Anyway, thanks Ren - I'll have another look!
@@RensRoom I've got it now - I understand!
Eu certa vez entrei num relacionamento, o sujeito foi encantador nos primeiros dias e depois se mostrou um manipulador. Eu já tinha aceitado a proposta de casamento e não queria voltar atrás porque a pressão familiar seria grande, então mesmo decepcionada ativei o modo camaleão. Eu tinha 28 anos e queria acabar com o tema 'casamento' na minha vida. As pessoas torturavam minha mente por eu ser solteira.
Nunca me senti tão desesperadamente sozinha do que com ele.
Depois que ele perecebeu que eu não voltaria atrás na decisão, se tornou arrogante, cínico; me fazia perambular por shoppings e restaurantes de cidades grandes sem nenhum objetivo específico. Era fútil, mostrava-se cada dia mais sem princípios, e não tínhamos conversas interessantes.
Queria mudar meu estilo de vida, desprezava minha história, minha fé; tomava decisões por mim.
Entrei numa angústia tão grande que não reagia, apenas um turbilhão de pensamentos e fui me levando.
Ele era estrangeiro e por causa do sotaque um moço não conseguiu atender corretamente o pedido na máquina de sorvete, nem eu estava entendendo... fez um escândalo, humilhou o rapaz. Em seguida convidei ele para ir a uma igreja: estou precisando. A resposta dele: vá você!
Estavamos numa cidade grande o dia todo andando sem rumo e sem objetivo! Fui em todos os lugares que ele queria.
Enfim fomos a uma loja comprar alianças, senti uma tempestade dentro de mim. O vendedor percebeu minha angústia e perguntou se eu estava bem...
Ele foi escolhendo e eu fui concordando. Parece que só consegui respirar quando saimos da loja.
Eu pensava: meu Deus não é um pai assim que quero para os meus filhos!
Pedi a Deus para que fizesse algo para que ele terminasse porque eu não queria voltar atrás.
Ele apareceu na minha casa com a mãe dele, a mulher veio me dizer como eu deveria me vestir...
Foi um momento em que eu perdi o controle: chorei, briguei com ela..
E terminamos.😢
Foi traumático, fiquei um tempo como que num estresse pós-traumático.
Conheci outras pessoas, mas ninguém me ofereceu mais do que a solidão.
Hoje eu tenho 41 anos, sou solteira e desfruto da solidão saudável que a liberdade me traz.
It's like being between the devil n the deep sea! We seek genuine connections n not fake ones!
A genuine connection is of the greatest value.
I'm curious about the idea of certain types being somewhat ambivert. If Fi and Fe are how we relate to people (the naive conception of introversion and extraversion), then to what extent can it be said that infj, isfj, enfp and esfp are all somwhat liminal examples of introverts and extraverts respectively? That is, fi secondaries and fe secondaries will all have both extraverted and intraverted traits. And how, then, do these four ambivert types relate? How does the experience, say, of an esfp relate to that of an infj?
Thank you Ren!
Yes, solitude as absolutely not the same as loneliness.
Thanks Jonas!
Bonjour Renaud! Merci pour le décorticage très intéressant de cette dualité permanente entre désir de solitude et de socialisation. Je suis intriguée : qu'est-ce qui t'amène à penser que ce ressenti est propre aux INFJ plutôt qu'aux introvertis de manière plus large ? Ton frère INFP, par exemple, n'éprouve-t-il pas ce que tu décris ici? Salutations depuis le Var ! :)
You choose soltitude by yourself, maybe through cricumstances. But loneliness is more like being left alone and sometimes I feel loneliness in my soltitude especially when I am just short of getting a grasp of a bigger picture. And long time I have thought it is the soltitude thats making me lonely but it is more like feeling left alone by your own thoughts...and it is frustrating and feeds my low self esteem, but I need this time alone by myself so its ok. But most of the time it is with others and I don't know if the loneliness feeling comes from the people who can't grasp what you try to say, or my inability to explain it.. And when you try to go deeper it is even more impossible to get through but you have to go further away and rotate and that takes time.. and when you try next day to speak about such a topic they alrdy have forgotten it and the loneliness kicks in, because I feel like "how can you forget such interesting thoughts..." .. well... at least I tried ;)
I am most lonely when in a crowd, lol
WE CARVE SOLITUDE BUT NOT LONELINESS.
When I'm alone, I feel I'm free. With all of my thoughts, memories and imagination. But if I feel lonely thats probably my mother's feeling that I'm detecting since we always short on money. 😁
INFJ, male, single, almost 40 having a midlife crisis comorbid with severe depression and bpd.
Not sure I would survive for long...
Lonliness got a whole new level and meaning...
bro...
It's a Camel
As an INFJ woman the best thing that i ever did was develop a strong relationship with myself and God. I'm a very spiritual person non religious. I don't feel lonely because of the life choices i have made. I really enjoy my solitude as I use it as ME time to relax, learn, process, explore and become a better human being, and then i am very very picky with whom i choose to be friends. Im 48 and I have 3 very close friends whom I can trust with my life, it took me a long time to build those relationships as I have the ability to read people exceptionally well and well most people are just disgusting two faced liars and users, but not all. I also met a wonderful man who turned out to be the love of my life 6 months ago...but it all stars with you having a strong relationship with yourself first and beginning the healing journey with any trauma you may have. Good luck to everyone I wish you every happiness and success in life!