I did a Ouija board the other day. The physics behind that is amazing. I was the only one INTENTIONALLY moving it to spell the letters 'D-O-R-K-S', and it still felt like someone else was moving it. Very cool experience. People realized it was me once they saw what was spelled, though :(
Being an atheist in America is like coming out. In the UK we hardly think about it, I assume people are at least secular and agnostic until they say otherwise. I find it weird when I find out someone does believe in God. Most people keep it to themselves.
Although I'm in the UK I actually find it somewhat disturbing how many religious buildings there are lying around. Orthodoxy, Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses...the ones which are more noticeable are the ones who constantly preach and prey on the vulnerable. I think we should really do something about that. I mean at least unlike the USA we aren't bound by a constitution that prohibits legal rulings about religions. The only limits for the time being are the ECHR buggering in where it does not belong and/or a potential conflict of interests with the government still being connected (and partially run by) the Church of England.
Nicholas is a great example of what happens when you learn jargon without having an understanding of the substance of a subject or discipline. He kept trying to attach plurality, a violation of Occam's razor, to the simple rejection of a claim. It is true that the existence of a god is a 2-state (binary) proposition; i.e. either true or false, but one's belief of the state is a different matter. (cont)
penn and teller made a show where they tested this ( in their own way :D ) where they blindfolded the test subjects, and turned the board around, and the "glass" moved to where the yes and no where before they turned it around :D sorry for misspelling
Tracie and Russell, you guys have much more patience than I do. That caller Nicholas showed a complete lack of intelligence, you were patient and thorough.
Step 1: Separate the blades of grass into grid spaces. Step 2: Count EXACTLY the number of blades in EACH grid space, not just one or a few. Step 3: Add the totals together to get the exact number of blades of grass. The advantage of the grid is that you can easily keep track of which blades have already been counted. This method gives an exact count.
There are even non-religious people that freak out over these boards and swear things of the supernatural come through it. I have used it many times even in graveyards and nothing ever happened
About Nicholas. Talking with somebody that thinks that "agnosticism" is something between theism and atheism is a waste of time. Unless the person you are talking to doesn't use the words in the same way you do, there is no point about having the discussion in first place.
Regarding whether religious leaders are actually believers: L. Ron Hubbard's great grandson has been researching old L. Ron and he reports having spoken to several people who were with him in the last days and hours of his life. Despite the fact that L. Ron Hubbard knew full well that Scientology was something he invented and that all the stuff about aliens and volcanoes was a product of his imagination, by the end of his life he had become a true believer. The people who were with him just before he died report that he talked about all that stuff with ardent belief even while he was weak and dying. So yes, apparently we can convince ourselves even of things that we know to be pure fiction.
I'm shocked at that long caller. He seems to actually have a lot of philosophical training, yet he somehow can't wrap his head around what the position of atheism is.
In Nicholas' scenario, there are blades of grass to count when in reality, it is more akin to claiming that there are an even number of blades of grass in a Zen Garden. Simply finding even one blade of grass would be sufficient to shift one's beliefs one way or another.
49:22 "Excuse me mom" but i actually couldn't find anything in the skeptics dictionary refuting the claim that there is a line of ancient Egyptian solders and chariots visible to scuba divers at the bottom of the Red Sea.
I like the guy who calls in at around 33:00. Even if he may not understand the atheist position fully, he never actually tryies to force unreasonable thinking on the hosts. That's about as good as a theist can be, to me. One who doesn't try to twist things to earn points, but actually tries to find common ground in reasoning. I respect that.
Just thinking, wouldn't you need an un-randomised board to be used as well, as a control, for each of the individuals, before or after the randomised board?
I think there is a correlation that implies a connection between guns and authoritarianism. Christianity is very authoritarian. In some of it's most fundamentalist forms it also expresses a 'siege mentality', the belief that the faith is always 'under attack'. This maps to the NRA's approach implying that gun rights are under attack. There may be a self selection of people who believe their way of life, interests and individuality is always under attack. To put it another way, if one believes everything in their life is always under attack, they may be drawn to both Christianity and firearms.
Agreed. The Abrahamic religions are incredibly authoritarian. Evidence enough for that is that its stories condemn basic things such as doubt or dissent. Practitioners of it tend condemn learning and science, and if they accept any science they will still vehemently reject or tac on their myth to it, corrupting it.
Bible Belt Atheist Bullshit. Liberalism freed slaves, got women the right to vote, the freedom for gays to marry, reproductive rights, workers rights, the 8-hour workday and weekends, protections against injury in the workplace and the assurance your drinking water is safe, your vehicles are safe and your food is safe. The Right fought every one of those things and still does to this day. The right fought to KEEP slaves, AGAINST equality and FOR the suppression of workers, women and gays. Libertarians only want to BE the Authority. Libertarianism believes that oppression is best left to the Private Sector. Libertarianism is Lords and Serfs in modern Corporate Feudalism. It is authoritarianism for the rich and powerful and the suppression of everyone else.
Your straw man was a work of architectural masterpiece. You clearly have ZERO grasp of Libertarianism. Your claiming that Liberalism alone got all of that done isn't just ridiculous, it actively denies and ignores the facts.
UNIONISM and progressive causes rooted in solidarity and community created a world where more people could participate. Libertarianism is purpose-built to separate and disempower. The philosophy of selfishness and aggression. Libertarianism is the dream ideology of the bully and the con artist.
I called in and got on the air Episode 883. Talked to Tracie and Russell. They're perfectly cool if you're calling with a reasonable question. Just like talking to a couple people on a high quality conference call. I quickly forgot I was on TV/RUclips and it was just like "Let's chat, this is cool." Russell and Tracie, Tracie especially, are really nice though, compared to others. Tracie is warmer than Jen, Russell easier going than Matt or Jeff. I think a Don/Tracie combo is most polite possible.
I think he means to count exactly the number of blades in each grid space, using the grid to easily differentiate between blades that have and haven't been counted.
@EarlRegent The multiverse hypothesis wasn't created to counter the fine tuning argument. It's decades old and came about from trying to explain spontaneous wave collapse in quantum electrodynamics. It just happens there may be an explanation for fine tuning so it's usually brought up as a possible alternative. Personally, I think fine tuning is rubbish. We originate from a near perfectly symmetrical single state. Therefore, what dials can be tuned? They're all the same thing.
@russellrummage There we have a disagreement. The multi-verse has been used very frequently to explain away the fine tuning. I think most people agree.
This episode gets slowly and slowly more quiet. By 18 minutes in I can barely understand a word with all my volumes at high. Not sure if there's something the video poster can do...?
@EASYTIGER10 I live in the US, and I honestly find it surprising to hear about this sort of thing on this show as well. I think that is because I live in the northern US - New England, which is probably the most tolerant part. It's pretty moderately religious here, but I imagine that it is as moderate as it gets in this country. I haven't had much experience outside of NE, but I know that the US varies a lot, so it's pretty eye-opening to hear about it.
I just explained my experience below. When we got this response, we never played again. My girlfriend's house had a huge energy ball which wiped along benches knocking things off. It settled on the back of the door. When I mentioned it they laughed. It had lived with them for yonks. I do not want to believe in spirits, so I came to the conclusion, that it is a mass of energy
"They're silent because they love you and they don't want to upset you"? How about they're silent because they fear you and what you threaten to do to them?
bonjour all I had a friend who repeatedly posted on my FB, "end of world scenario, rapture material" to happen within the month or year. The comical thing was that as expected nothing happened. Tides come in and went out, some volcanoes spat some dust and lava and there were the repeated small tsunamis that are norms in our huge oceans and peet away before hitting any shores except for some who made the news. I requested this friend to tone down or stop these rapture issues as most of my FB friends were bored with these. What, I dare to ask that she did not have the right to post any christian and rapture materials.....how dare I suggest this. And then I simply said, look I am an atheist and believe what you want and so be it but not on my FB. So I lost this friend as well as another group of friends who did not want anything to do with a heathen. Well so be it. I must admit that saying that I am an atheist 1st time was demanding, tough, but now it does not touch me another, now, it is even fun. Your show, has educated me so much in delivering better constructed reparties and it is so interesting, logical, educated, fun to know and I am richer for it. So messieurs et mesdames, much thank indeed.
monsieur dragon....you know the drill, For atheist: facts are facts and we rely on reliable information as a volcano erupted, the big bang theory or DNA theory. I am a christiaaaan person relies on make beliefs, on voices in their head, on laws in an old book that does not make sense in this century. I am Christiaaan person always rely on threats of death or punishments or something horrible happening if you don't conform to their beliefs and stories as the talking snake, and so on. I think that you must continue believing in your stories that make you sleep well at night, we don't need this type of stories to live a full life. good road mon ami
Hi Dragon.... this is how it started: A friend of mine was using my Facebook to post her religious mail. - I actually did not mind for the odd message here and there but it became a problem when 3 or more messages would be posted daily. - all these messages were doom and gloom, such as the rapture is in a month time and god will punish you all if you do not repent or do whatever she decided needed to be done. -So I simply ask her to cool down and to reduce her no of messages and not swamp my FBook. This was not acceptable to the person and she became quite aggressive and rude as to my request. - so all I did was to request that she respect my FB page and no more religious messages on my FB. - It turned ugly with the lady taking exception to my request. - so sadly enough I had to expunge her from my FB friends list as my other friends were also tired of the issue. BUT here is continues...... As I stated openly that I was an atheist. Some friends could not accept this as they did not talk to atheist. Even though they would suggest that you can be whatever you want to be as long as you are a decent person. So these supposed free thinkers left the FB page. A little surprise for me. What I am hoping for is the following I am hoping to have friends that think and are in control of their life and are not slaves to a religion or concept that stunt their growth.....etc..... So I was surprised to these events having happened and ultimately it was a good experience as a cleaned cupboards and expanded my horizon. voila or there you are, I hope this helped
All they want to do is spread there intolerance, bigotry, hate, anti-science/(willful) ignorance and hell for not agreeing with them. I get similar stuff, my entire family are religious and I see stuff like the "blood" moon, which basically means light can bend around the earth and because red is where the moon is it must be a deity...I have been raised like this and I turned out to be an atheist at 18, go figure. What kind of god would require faith instead of evidence.
i wonder what the answers would be if you move the letters back to the way they were and link the positions up with the old letters. damn that's hard to explain what i mean :(
After about halfway through, I skipped Nicholas's call. That was going in circles for too long, imo. Is it just me, or are calls going a lot longer these days?
The point isn't that someone would actually do this, it is to demonstrate that it is very possible to get an exact count. Blades of grass are easily countable, finite objects. It is quite feasible (though time-consuming) to exactly count them. We can be certain of the count of these blades of grass to the extent we can be certain about counting anything else. Recounting can enforce certainty, yes. There is no need to get all solipsist-just concede the point.
Does anyone know which episode is the one where Tracie explains that even if the virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus three days later were proven to have happened that it still doesn't prove a God? I've been searching through the episodes for awhile now and I can't find it. It's a fairly recent one. It's such a good explanation and many, many theists need to hear it. Lol.
Tracy, there is a physiological reason the pointer moves without anyone wanting to move, I forget what it's called. But, the pointer will move without anyone trying. This was mentioned on the Bullshit episode, too.
That loooong discussion they had, it was immediately evident where the misunderstanding was, the caller thinks agnostic means, "a person who doesn't know whether or not a god exists" and not, "a person who claims it is impossible to know whether or not god exists". He also thinks atheist means ( only), "a person who believes god does not exist" Fairly certain our hosts knew this, they could of resolved this MUCH, MUCH earlier by pointing this out, lack of conciseness drives me crazy! D:
You could make inch square segments, number them, count the blades and record how many were in that segments. I think you're just confused by what I mean.
its so strange where I'm from ( Denmark ) its the other way around , I think I know a total of 3 that claimes to belive in a god and one of them has given up trying to explain why.
@JOHNINCOLUMBUS - Yeah, but it's always bugged me that when you say it backwards, according to Mary Poppins, it's dociousaliexpiisticfragicalirupus - which is only backwards in the most vaguely dyslexic sense.
@MultiUniv3rsal I don't know, 5 pound cocker spaniels can be pretty scary, especially in large numbers. Those little things are vicious as heck when they're angry :P How about "scares me about as much as a goldfish"?
I had one experience with a Ouija board, and it worked explain this...my best friend, his sister, her friend and myself were using this board first time. Asking simple questions how many people in room, how many boys how many girls got all questions right couldn't prove if anybody was moving it it got boring then just my best friend and myself stayed asked it one final questions being hockey fans we asked who would win the Stanley cup that year, it proceeded to spell Colorado which meant coloroado avanlanch at the beginning of the hockey season. Which was correct by the end of the year, the only problem was when we asked the question there was no team Colorado? The team was Quebec which became Colorado later that year....
@EarlRegent I wasn't saying it isn't commonly used for that, but that's not how it came about. It's just a theory which is gaining ground (purely for scientific reasons) which just so happens to have a possible answer for the fine tuning argument. I don't hold any ties to its explanatory value, once you say there's a multiverse you can make anything you like up. But at least its a theory which is derived from reality and science has led us to. But I just reject the fine tuning claim outright.
Every body tells me of how ouija works and how dangereous they are, yet they never work when there is a skeptic around. As for being dangereous: don't put the small pieces in your mouth and it should be safe enough.
Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but " Deer Hunting with Jesus" would be a great book to check out for the guy comparing christianity, right wing politics and gun culture. Another book might be "American Jesus" which has chapters on many trends in American Christianity.
@luccaskunk - The odds that someone will win the lotto are 100%. The odds that a particular person will win the lotto are much smaller. I thought the grass analogy was fine, because it dealt with a specific yard - but didn't go far enough to be analogous to the stunning improbability of a creator, which demands that you document literally trillions of sequential head tosses of the coin. Which, even then, as you say, doesn't demonstrate any particular god.
"Would take a very long time though." Extrapolating wouldn't take a very long time. Counting things one by one is not difficult (easy enough), but takes a very long time (would take a very long time though). Plucking isn't necessary to make sure which blades have been counted-you can use a grid as was suggested. Sorry, but you are wrong. He wasn't talking about extrapolating.
its one of the more recent ones she did with mat. i know this cause ive been listening to them top down. Pretty sure if you keep going to the more recent ones youll find it.
Russells analogy @40:05 was excellent, its just a shame something that basic needs to be explains like that, i just don't get what's so hard about no evidence = no belief.
Granted the Ouija board is a tiny example, it demonstrates a key difference between theists and atheists. They didn't just come on the show and say "Ouija boards don't work, end of story." They gave an example of a test that can easily be recreated at home. It's not enough to be skeptical, but to understand why you're skeptical and why it's okay to doubt a "believer" in something.
@MultiUniv3rsal Nah, mercury is from salt water fish, not goldfish which are both saltwater and also born and bred in tap water. You're more likely to get lead poisoning if the pipes are old enough or old paint chips got into the water supply. But then the goldfish having lead is the least of your worries :)
Tracy absolutely destroyed this guy and when he finally realizes how wrong he is he says I think you're maybe confused Tracy. Wow LOL LOL LOL right Tracy's the one that's confused... right.. lol lol lol
@47f0 I saw a couple of videos where two different people flipped a coin until they got 10 heads in a row. It took one of them 9 hours to do it. The other took only 2 and a half hours. Despite the odds being against a person and their 20 closest neighbors having an even number of blades of grass in their yard, it's pretty much impossible that it's not true for at least someone. Even then, finding that one neighborhood is hardly an evidence for god.
@0Xian0 But many of us just want the calls. Often I also put a "show starts at" when they have a seven minute discussion about where they are going to eat dinner when they are done.
I got the impression that you misunderstood Nicholas, jumping to conclusion about what his point was out before he had finnished. I know you sometimes need to interupt callers in order to save time, but in this case you were actually wasting a lot of time trying to disprove a point he never made.
I really like Tracie because she take time to engage and understand opposition callers. Russell makes good points, but he too dismissive and does not engage - at least that is the impression I get. Tracie frames the discussion far more diplomatically. Russell probably doesn't mean to, but he comes off a bit rude at times by interrupting. Not always, but sometimes. I do enjoy the show alot and you guys do a wonderful service.
@EarlRegent I know the multiverse isn't intrinsicly atheistic, I said I hold no ties to its explanatory value. And just because the possibilities of it is infinitely diverse, certainly doesn't mean it wasn't derived scientifically (why would it?). As I said before, it originated due to the problem of spontaneous wave collapse in quantum mechanics. IE: Why do particles behave in a certain way from the infinite probability range? Multiverse says they all happen somewhere, just this one way here.
3:35 Show starts 17:19 First caller
Vote up for time saving!
Great episode. I am one of the isolated and I am really glad this show exists.
Really enjoy these older episodes.
I did a Ouija board the other day. The physics behind that is amazing. I was the only one INTENTIONALLY moving it to spell the letters 'D-O-R-K-S', and it still felt like someone else was moving it. Very cool experience. People realized it was me once they saw what was spelled, though :(
Being an atheist in America is like coming out. In the UK we hardly think about it, I assume people are at least secular and agnostic until they say otherwise. I find it weird when I find out someone does believe in God. Most people keep it to themselves.
Although I'm in the UK I actually find it somewhat disturbing how many religious buildings there are lying around. Orthodoxy, Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses...the ones which are more noticeable are the ones who constantly preach and prey on the vulnerable. I think we should really do something about that. I mean at least unlike the USA we aren't bound by a constitution that prohibits legal rulings about religions. The only limits for the time being are the ECHR buggering in where it does not belong and/or a potential conflict of interests with the government still being connected (and partially run by) the Church of England.
Nicholas is a great example of what happens when you learn jargon without having an understanding of the substance of a subject or discipline. He kept trying to attach plurality, a violation of Occam's razor, to the simple rejection of a claim. It is true that the existence of a god is a 2-state (binary) proposition; i.e. either true or false, but one's belief of the state is a different matter. (cont)
This is very insightful for all worldly ideas, not just Atheism. Thank you
I believe Tracy was at the original Woodstock concert. :-)
nickolas: the truth value (god/non god) is entirely separate from the CLAIM that one believes or not.
penn and teller made a show where they tested this ( in their own way :D ) where they blindfolded the test subjects, and turned the board around, and the "glass" moved to where the yes and no where before they turned it around :D sorry for misspelling
Tracie and Russell, you guys have much more patience than I do. That caller Nicholas showed a complete lack of intelligence, you were patient and thorough.
mY test got on tv!! wow! i'm impressed and honored! I enjoyed testing it and very in formative on the skepticism on the ouija board!:)
It was brilliant.
It is inappropriate for adults to claim they can detect or manipulate magic. Never be afraid to call liars for what they are.
Sadly...some people actually believe it....
Haha Russel is so triggerhappy on that hang-up button.
You know, I hadn't really noticed before, but now that he's mentioned it, I can really see the resemblance between him and Michele Bachmann.
Just found you guys. Subscribed.
Step 1: Separate the blades of grass into grid spaces.
Step 2: Count EXACTLY the number of blades in EACH grid space, not just one or a few.
Step 3: Add the totals together to get the exact number of blades of grass.
The advantage of the grid is that you can easily keep track of which blades have already been counted. This method gives an exact count.
Nicholas is rather slow.
There are even non-religious people that freak out over these boards and swear things of the supernatural come through it. I have used it many times even in graveyards and nothing ever happened
Good show
About Nicholas.
Talking with somebody that thinks that "agnosticism" is something between theism and atheism is a waste of time.
Unless the person you are talking to doesn't use the words in the same way you do, there is no point about having the discussion in first place.
Regarding whether religious leaders are actually believers: L. Ron Hubbard's great grandson has been researching old L. Ron and he reports having spoken to several people who were with him in the last days and hours of his life. Despite the fact that L. Ron Hubbard knew full well that Scientology was something he invented and that all the stuff about aliens and volcanoes was a product of his imagination, by the end of his life he had become a true believer. The people who were with him just before he died report that he talked about all that stuff with ardent belief even while he was weak and dying. So yes, apparently we can convince ourselves even of things that we know to be pure fiction.
I'm shocked at that long caller. He seems to actually have a lot of philosophical training, yet he somehow can't wrap his head around what the position of atheism is.
@ProblemHonorStudent LOL;) that was funny. glad you enjoyed the experiment i conducted:)
I love how Tracy let's people talk :) She put Russell in his place.
So happy for more episodes :D
Love and are amezed by your show. We don`t have so many christians as you, like the rest of scandinavia. Best greetings and thump up from Norway.
Counting the blades of grass would be easy enough using a grid with small segments. Would take a very long time though.
In Nicholas' scenario, there are blades of grass to count when in reality, it is more akin to claiming that there are an even number of blades of grass in a Zen Garden.
Simply finding even one blade of grass would be sufficient to shift one's beliefs one way or another.
On Steve and _'the complexity of the universe'_ : Isn't us, finding something complex or not, totally dependent on our level of intelligence?
49:22 "Excuse me mom" but i actually couldn't find anything in the skeptics dictionary refuting the claim that there is a line of ancient Egyptian solders and chariots visible to scuba divers at the bottom of the Red Sea.
Nicholas is more interested in the way he sounds and projecting a character than in the truth.
.
Went to drag races in RI/MA/CT area. Every vehicle except one had xtain race ministry on it.
I like the guy who calls in at around 33:00. Even if he may not understand the atheist position fully, he never actually tryies to force unreasonable thinking on the hosts. That's about as good as a theist can be, to me. One who doesn't try to twist things to earn points, but actually tries to find common ground in reasoning. I respect that.
Russell and Tracie are my favorite hosts.
Just thinking, wouldn't you need an un-randomised board to be used as well, as a control, for each of the individuals, before or after the randomised board?
I think there is a correlation that implies a connection between guns and authoritarianism. Christianity is very authoritarian. In some of it's most fundamentalist forms it also expresses a 'siege mentality', the belief that the faith is always 'under attack'. This maps to the NRA's approach implying that gun rights are under attack.
There may be a self selection of people who believe their way of life, interests and individuality is always under attack. To put it another way, if one believes everything in their life is always under attack, they may be drawn to both Christianity and firearms.
Agreed. The Abrahamic religions are incredibly authoritarian. Evidence enough for that is that its stories condemn basic things such as doubt or dissent. Practitioners of it tend condemn learning and science, and if they accept any science they will still vehemently reject or tac on their myth to it, corrupting it.
How's that? Leftists are incredibly authoritarian, and anti-gun. Libertarians vehemently oppose any kind of authoritarian action, and are pro-gun.
Bible Belt Atheist Bullshit. Liberalism freed slaves, got women the right to vote, the freedom for gays to marry, reproductive rights, workers rights, the 8-hour workday and weekends, protections against injury in the workplace and the assurance your drinking water is safe, your vehicles are safe and your food is safe.
The Right fought every one of those things and still does to this day. The right fought to KEEP slaves, AGAINST equality and FOR the suppression of workers, women and gays.
Libertarians only want to BE the Authority. Libertarianism believes that oppression is best left to the Private Sector. Libertarianism is Lords and Serfs in modern Corporate Feudalism. It is authoritarianism for the rich and powerful and the suppression of everyone else.
Your straw man was a work of architectural masterpiece. You clearly have ZERO grasp of Libertarianism. Your claiming that Liberalism alone got all of that done isn't just ridiculous, it actively denies and ignores the facts.
UNIONISM and progressive causes rooted in solidarity and community created a world where more people could participate. Libertarianism is purpose-built to separate and disempower. The philosophy of selfishness and aggression. Libertarianism is the dream ideology of the bully and the con artist.
First call at: 17:19
Thumbs up for time saving =)
As an Australian I am embarrassed how stupid some of us sound.
thatdevilguy imagine how embarrassed I am about living here in texas
I wish Matt were here for this one. He's so much better at explaining burden of proof.
I called in and got on the air Episode 883. Talked to Tracie and Russell. They're perfectly cool if you're calling with a reasonable question. Just like talking to a couple people on a high quality conference call. I quickly forgot I was on TV/RUclips and it was just like "Let's chat, this is cool." Russell and Tracie, Tracie especially, are really nice though, compared to others. Tracie is warmer than Jen, Russell easier going than Matt or Jeff. I think a Don/Tracie combo is most polite possible.
I think he means to count exactly the number of blades in each grid space, using the grid to easily differentiate between blades that have and haven't been counted.
Russell is a god damn nerd. WE LOVE YOU!
Thank you for cutting the intro
@EarlRegent The multiverse hypothesis wasn't created to counter the fine tuning argument. It's decades old and came about from trying to explain spontaneous wave collapse in quantum electrodynamics. It just happens there may be an explanation for fine tuning so it's usually brought up as a possible alternative. Personally, I think fine tuning is rubbish. We originate from a near perfectly symmetrical single state. Therefore, what dials can be tuned? They're all the same thing.
where is this wiki that discusses the cosmological argument?
@russellrummage There we have a disagreement. The multi-verse has been used very frequently to explain away the fine tuning. I think most people agree.
This episode gets slowly and slowly more quiet. By 18 minutes in I can barely understand a word with all my volumes at high. Not sure if there's something the video poster can do...?
@EASYTIGER10 I live in the US, and I honestly find it surprising to hear about this sort of thing on this show as well. I think that is because I live in the northern US - New England, which is probably the most tolerant part. It's pretty moderately religious here, but I imagine that it is as moderate as it gets in this country. I haven't had much experience outside of NE, but I know that the US varies a lot, so it's pretty eye-opening to hear about it.
I just explained my experience below. When we got this response, we never played again. My girlfriend's house had a huge energy ball which wiped along benches knocking things off. It settled on the back of the door. When I mentioned it they laughed. It had lived with them for yonks. I do not want to believe in spirits, so I came to the conclusion, that it is a mass of energy
Does a blade of grass which has been split in half count as one blade of grass or two?
"They're silent because they love you and they don't want to upset you"? How about they're silent because they fear you and what you threaten to do to them?
bonjour all
I had a friend who repeatedly posted on my FB, "end of world scenario, rapture material" to happen within the month or year.
The comical thing was that as expected nothing happened.
Tides come in and went out, some volcanoes spat some dust and lava and there were the repeated small tsunamis that are norms in our huge oceans and peet away before hitting any shores except for some who made the news.
I requested this friend to tone down or stop these rapture issues as most of my FB friends were bored with these.
What, I dare to ask that she did not have the right to post any christian and rapture materials.....how dare I suggest this.
And then I simply said, look I am an atheist and believe what you want and so be it but not on my FB.
So I lost this friend as well as another group of friends who did not want anything to do with a heathen.
Well so be it.
I must admit that saying that I am an atheist 1st time was demanding, tough, but now it does not touch me another, now, it is even fun.
Your show, has educated me so much in delivering better constructed reparties and it is so interesting, logical, educated, fun to know and I am richer for it.
So messieurs et mesdames, much thank indeed.
bonjour? i hate it, whats with apple and useless programs
monsieur dragon....you know the drill,
For atheist: facts are facts and we rely on reliable information as a volcano erupted, the big bang theory or DNA theory.
I am a christiaaaan person relies on make beliefs, on voices in their head, on laws in an old book that does not make sense in this century.
I am Christiaaan person always rely on threats of death or punishments or something horrible happening if you don't conform to their beliefs and stories as the talking snake, and so on.
I think that you must continue believing in your stories that make you sleep well at night, we don't need this type of stories to live a full life.
good road mon ami
i dont get what ur saying
Hi Dragon....
this is how it started:
A friend of mine was using my Facebook to post her religious mail.
- I actually did not mind for the odd message here and there but it became a problem when 3 or more messages would be posted daily.
- all these messages were doom and gloom, such as the rapture is in a month time and god will punish you all if you do not repent or do whatever she decided needed to be done.
-So I simply ask her to cool down and to reduce her no of messages and not swamp my FBook.
This was not acceptable to the person and she became quite aggressive and rude as to my request.
- so all I did was to request that she respect my FB page and no more religious messages on my FB.
- It turned ugly with the lady taking exception to my request.
- so sadly enough I had to expunge her from my FB friends list as my other friends were also tired of the issue.
BUT here is continues......
As I stated openly that I was an atheist.
Some friends could not accept this as they did not talk to atheist. Even though they would suggest that you can be whatever you want to be as long as you are a decent person.
So these supposed free thinkers left the FB page. A little surprise for me.
What I am hoping for is the following I am hoping to have friends that think and are in control of their life and are not slaves to a religion or concept that stunt their growth.....etc.....
So I was surprised to these events having happened and ultimately it was a good experience as a cleaned cupboards and expanded my horizon.
voila or there you are, I hope this helped
All they want to do is spread there intolerance, bigotry, hate, anti-science/(willful) ignorance and hell for not agreeing with them. I get similar stuff, my entire family are religious and I see stuff like the "blood" moon, which basically means light can bend around the earth and because red is where the moon is it must be a deity...I have been raised like this and I turned out to be an atheist at 18, go figure. What kind of god would require faith instead of evidence.
i wonder what the answers would be if you move the letters back to the way they were and link the positions up with the old letters. damn that's hard to explain what i mean :(
And I am just pointing out that he may not mean extrapolation, but rather an exact count.
After about halfway through, I skipped Nicholas's call. That was going in circles for too long, imo.
Is it just me, or are calls going a lot longer these days?
The point isn't that someone would actually do this, it is to demonstrate that it is very possible to get an exact count. Blades of grass are easily countable, finite objects. It is quite feasible (though time-consuming) to exactly count them.
We can be certain of the count of these blades of grass to the extent we can be certain about counting anything else. Recounting can enforce certainty, yes. There is no need to get all solipsist-just concede the point.
Does anyone know which episode is the one where Tracie explains that even if the virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus three days later were proven to have happened that it still doesn't prove a God? I've been searching through the episodes for awhile now and I can't find it. It's a fairly recent one. It's such a good explanation and many, many theists need to hear it. Lol.
interesting question and test!
@Rubashow Jen is, but I don't remember Tracie's preference coming up before.
Tracy, there is a physiological reason the pointer moves without anyone wanting to move, I forget what it's called. But, the pointer will move without anyone trying. This was mentioned on the Bullshit episode, too.
Matt is still the bomb, but wow Russell, once again you articulate comments are incredible.
That loooong discussion they had, it was immediately evident where the misunderstanding was, the caller thinks agnostic means, "a person who doesn't know whether or not a god exists" and not, "a person who claims it is impossible to know whether or not god exists". He also thinks atheist means ( only), "a person who believes god does not exist"
Fairly certain our hosts knew this, they could of resolved this MUCH, MUCH earlier by pointing this out, lack of conciseness drives me crazy! D:
How about, I don't believe there is an odd or even number of blades of grass, because both the yard and the grass are invisible
You could make inch square segments, number them, count the blades and record how many were in that segments. I think you're just confused by what I mean.
its so strange where I'm from ( Denmark ) its the other way around , I think I know a total of 3 that claimes to belive in a god and one of them has given up trying to explain why.
I couldn't find the red sea at skeptics dictionary, can anyone refer me?
*****
Moses.
yes, they said to look up the red sea on skeptics dictionary. I can't find it.
@JOHNINCOLUMBUS - Yeah, but it's always bugged me that when you say it backwards, according to Mary Poppins, it's dociousaliexpiisticfragicalirupus - which is only backwards in the most vaguely dyslexic sense.
46:30 holy shit its Ray Comfort!
@MultiUniv3rsal I don't know, 5 pound cocker spaniels can be pretty scary, especially in large numbers. Those little things are vicious as heck when they're angry :P
How about "scares me about as much as a goldfish"?
I saw Russell in Orlando!
To the grass guy, we can't even be sure he has a lawn until we see evidence for it.
I had one experience with a Ouija board, and it worked explain this...my best friend, his sister, her friend and myself were using this board first time. Asking simple questions how many people in room, how many boys how many girls got all questions right couldn't prove if anybody was moving it it got boring then just my best friend and myself stayed asked it one final questions being hockey fans we asked who would win the Stanley cup that year, it proceeded to spell Colorado which meant coloroado avanlanch at the beginning of the hockey season. Which was correct by the end of the year, the only problem was when we asked the question there was no team Colorado? The team was Quebec which became Colorado later that year....
I would like to know how long we would survive as a species if we stopped all medical care and just prayed when we got sick.
@EarlRegent I wasn't saying it isn't commonly used for that, but that's not how it came about. It's just a theory which is gaining ground (purely for scientific reasons) which just so happens to have a possible answer for the fine tuning argument. I don't hold any ties to its explanatory value, once you say there's a multiverse you can make anything you like up. But at least its a theory which is derived from reality and science has led us to. But I just reject the fine tuning claim outright.
Every body tells me of how ouija works and how dangereous they are, yet they never work when there is a skeptic around. As for being dangereous: don't put the small pieces in your mouth and it should be safe enough.
I am an avid gun enthusiast myself and i will put it this way, the people i meet at the range are kind, polite and not that bright...
ok i didn't clarify myself. he went in there without any other players. I was there but not playing and recorded his answers
@JaysLogic Oh bloody Norah! Please ignore the correction cause it was not necessary seeing I did not make an error to begin with.
I like the Nigerian Prince analogy; it's a very clear way to illustrate the point.
WHERE DO YOU FIND THE EVIDENCE ON SKEPTIC DICTIONARY THAT THE CHARIOT THING ISNT REAL? SEARCHED THE SIT I COULD NOT FIND THAT TOPIC.Sorry for yelling.
Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but " Deer Hunting with Jesus" would be a great book to check out for the guy comparing christianity, right wing politics and gun culture. Another book might be "American Jesus" which has chapters on many trends in American Christianity.
@luccaskunk - The odds that someone will win the lotto are 100%. The odds that a particular person will win the lotto are much smaller. I thought the grass analogy was fine, because it dealt with a specific yard - but didn't go far enough to be analogous to the stunning improbability of a creator, which demands that you document literally trillions of sequential head tosses of the coin. Which, even then, as you say, doesn't demonstrate any particular god.
"Would take a very long time though."
Extrapolating wouldn't take a very long time. Counting things one by one is not difficult (easy enough), but takes a very long time (would take a very long time though).
Plucking isn't necessary to make sure which blades have been counted-you can use a grid as was suggested. Sorry, but you are wrong. He wasn't talking about extrapolating.
its one of the more recent ones she did with mat. i know this cause ive been listening to them top down. Pretty sure if you keep going to the more recent ones youll find it.
Russells analogy @40:05 was excellent, its just a shame something that basic needs to be explains like that, i just don't get what's so hard about no evidence = no belief.
Granted the Ouija board is a tiny example, it demonstrates a key difference between theists and atheists. They didn't just come on the show and say "Ouija boards don't work, end of story." They gave an example of a test that can easily be recreated at home. It's not enough to be skeptical, but to understand why you're skeptical and why it's okay to doubt a "believer" in something.
@MultiUniv3rsal Nah, mercury is from salt water fish, not goldfish which are both saltwater and also born and bred in tap water. You're more likely to get lead poisoning if the pipes are old enough or old paint chips got into the water supply. But then the goldfish having lead is the least of your worries :)
Tracy absolutely destroyed this guy and when he finally realizes how wrong he is he says I think you're maybe confused Tracy. Wow LOL LOL LOL right Tracy's the one that's confused... right.. lol lol lol
You sir, have been served.
That was teleological not cosmological wasn't it?
@47f0 I saw a couple of videos where two different people flipped a coin until they got 10 heads in a row. It took one of them 9 hours to do it. The other took only 2 and a half hours. Despite the odds being against a person and their 20 closest neighbors having an even number of blades of grass in their yard, it's pretty much impossible that it's not true for at least someone. Even then, finding that one neighborhood is hardly an evidence for god.
There has already been a test of a ouija board. It involves a pile of cards on top of the glass
@0Xian0 But many of us just want the calls.
Often I also put a "show starts at" when they have a seven minute discussion about where they are going to eat dinner when they are done.
love the show but your website needs a work up :D
I got the impression that you misunderstood Nicholas, jumping to conclusion about what his point was out before he had finnished. I know you sometimes need to interupt callers in order to save time, but in this case you were actually wasting a lot of time trying to disprove a point he never made.
Is it just me, or does that last caller sound a lot like Ray Comfort?
I really like Tracie because she take time to engage and understand opposition callers. Russell makes good points, but he too dismissive and does not engage - at least that is the impression I get. Tracie frames the discussion far more diplomatically. Russell probably doesn't mean to, but he comes off a bit rude at times by interrupting. Not always, but sometimes. I do enjoy the show alot and you guys do a wonderful service.
@EarlRegent I know the multiverse isn't intrinsicly atheistic, I said I hold no ties to its explanatory value. And just because the possibilities of it is infinitely diverse, certainly doesn't mean it wasn't derived scientifically (why would it?). As I said before, it originated due to the problem of spontaneous wave collapse in quantum mechanics. IE: Why do particles behave in a certain way from the infinite probability range? Multiverse says they all happen somewhere, just this one way here.
my birthday was on thanksgiving this year :)