The TRUTH About Michael Jordan's 1988 DPOY Season
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- A thorough breakdown of Tom Haberstroh's article about Michael Jordan's Defensive Player of the Year award in 1988, as I reveal the TRUTH about these games, showing you the footage and the actual statistics.
Here is the link to the website I mentioned in the video
www.usasportsondvd.com
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This one is going to get both sides going at it! Lol. Hope you enjoy the video, because this took A LOT of time and energy.
In your own words, how was Michael Jordan’s defense?
IMPORTANT DETAIL: A LOT of people are saying that MJ should get a Block AND Steal when he secures the ball after his block, but that’s NOT how that works. A Blocked shot is technically a missed shot for the offensive team, meaning it’s a Block and a REBOUND, not a Steal. Here is the official explanation from the NBA.
videorulebook.nba.com/archive/block-rebound-turnover-player-blocks-field-goal-attempt-saves-ball-from-going-out-of-bounds-off-own-teammate/
Here is the link to the website I mentioned in the video.
www.usasportsondvd.com
ONE LAST THING. If you wanna verify Haberstroh's 6 games for yourself, then here are the links to those games. You'll just have to download the same program that I did.
1988.01.05 Chicago vs Indiana
mega.nz/file/pWwRRbBL#O0lKRMVooFgdmpcHBrd5PkczeWsW9v_5MWIfL2sDKhA
1988.01.07 Chicago vs Denver
mega.nz/file/BfhSWSpQ#f0EskMXVIImvUi0qYh-Acpnt-4leWHgmq__jIngCPaY
1988.02.15 Chicago vs Atlanta
mega.nz/file/FboDjJDR#EjCslCZXeX4jajOECBw_-1hL-vMjSHkZLDYLZjQrYVw
1988.03.18 Boston Celtics vs Chicago Bulls
mega.nz/file/9DojAYxT#vYJ39Czjf8MI8Bn7jrsj61D5dRNbdTTCq5dUkgaRVvg
1987.11.20 Chicago vs Atlanta
mega.nz/file/cOYDhS5I#4b65ySIJtUV4PyiGvl7IzQdlvUmpLQczGhGb0UOsx1g
1988.01.16 Chicago vs Detroit
mega.nz/file/xGQCAAbB#FWbVwf0mG4ibh-VGBSH0J_DdZnOaeG0c_F0s3iD1uC0
Here are my 4 sample games
1987.12.12 Chicago vs Houston
mega.nz/file/V2wxAa4a#cF6MdomQtCQ4v_N5oqfrEbopU4m7upd4ngrAsg_MigM
1987.11.07 Chicago vs Philadelphia
mega.nz/file/hrxhESbT#sBMH_Vm2L2zn0ji01-NNBF-_Q9pkuLUBGu1B46IOvVU
1987.12.22 Chicago vs Dallas
mega.nz/file/kDByVBgA#IOV4HdE53HuSG7phGOv5fsl936zhKb-s9TtDoBFplZI
1988.02.23 Chicago vs Seattle
mega.nz/file/5fA13SYC#SehINQ7pvhL0CJPYDjmR_RJ-CNSprbSZtRp_vrQj970
Better than my defense.
Great video! Is it possible that given the static position of the stat keepers that it contributed to some of the off viewing angles for incorrect stats? They don't have a triangle like the refs to see more angles. The availability of instant footage would also play a part since they couldn't review their questions in the moment. Also, While watching I thought to myself about the steals discrepancy, is it possible that the stat keepers credited some of those questionable blocks where he might have got a fingertip on the ball as deflections? You don't need to be anchored to the ground to cause a deflection. I think that would make up for some of the difference, incorrect as it might be.
Some of the steals could have been counted as blocks and some of the blocks could have been counted as steals as well. Espically on post entry passes where if it gets deflected it could be hard to see if it was a shot or pass from the scores table. Same thing where blocks are steals because from the scorers view a broken up ally oop pass could easily look like a blocked shot.
It’s funny because yes some games are inflated but just take that away and you never see anyone in the nba now at the guard position blocking and deflecting so many shots and jumping so high to do it. They didn’t have to make him better than he already was to see how amazing that it, ant it’s not doing this in games for the wolves
He still my mvp.
One thing this video shows is what an amazing defender MJ was
With the eye test for Mj... lebron NOT EVEN CLOSE
50/50
It also shows that there is lying going on about him. But liars accept many lies
@@guugle-is-racizt4685what was they lying about?
@@getdown7799his stats bro😂 that’s what like the whole video is about
The internet needs this type of accountability in all forms of media. Thank you for putting this together! Great research.
and what about the LACK of knowledge HE shows when he says JORDAN didnt have full possession haahhah
@@onlyfacts3178how does this content creator have a lack of knowledge?
That's very true.
before doing research you should know what possession means...so saying something is possible when its a clear steal is absurd..
@@onlyfacts3178 so since we are talking it out are you saying he did that or not?
Everyone concentrating on Jordan's steals and blocks that season, as if it had a huge impact on his DPOY candidacy.
The previous season the award went to Michael Cooper who finished the season ranked just 62nd in steals and 75th in blocks. Obviously the voters of that era did not care much for those stats when voting for DPOY.
That’s actually a really good point. The problem is that it might contribute to the narrative that DPOY didn’t mean as much then as now
I mean, the voters of this era also don't really value those stats. But you can also look at other DPOY's from around that time of MJ's and also see players with relatively low per game defensive stats that still won DPOY as well.
@@stop.juststop I mean, when Giannias got his DPOY he had like 1 bpg and 1 spg. Smart had like 1.7 steals (wasn't steals leader) and like 0.3 blocks. Gobert this last year 0.7 stl and 2.1 bpg, also not amazing stats. At least for MJ, he was steals leader that year and had set a new (and still standing record) for most bpg by a guard in a season. Oh, and it was one of 4 200+ steals and 100+ blocks seasons ever, which he did back to back, with this year being better on both.
@@nathanbartel9442bro did you not watch the video? 😭 you bring up the fact that it was one out of four seasons where he did it, but literally it’s a video showing that they’re possibly inflated
@@maab1941 no I watched it. First it’s 4 extra games, not seasons. And 2nd the extra games he looked up were far closer to the box scores than the ones the original article mentioned. While his steals seem to be more off, his blocks tended to possibly be UNDER recorded.
It’s not mentioned in the video, but I suspect some of the “possible” (his term) blocks may have been counted as steals.
I look forward to the guys review of several reported incidents of this, not just for old players but also new/current players. I suspect that generally we will see assists are easier to get in todays games than most of the older games.
I don't like the fact that his steals are inflated. But I love the fact that his blocks strengthens his argument for being the greatest shot blocking guard in history
I don’t like the fact the current NBA is garbage and the players are soft as wet cotton
But he is not as good as his inflated stats say, and this will be relevant to comparison between mj and LeBron's advanced stats.
@@bohanxu6125 I suspect we will see that LBJ has inflated assists. Actually I suspect we will see that this generation in general has an easier time getting an assist on the box score in general compared to say 80’s and 90’s.
@@nathanbartel9442 yeah I would be curious to see a large sample size analysis of games from different decades... home cooking has always been a thing and will always continue to be a thing
edit: the opposite is probably also true... I bet if we looked at the "official" stats of star players in away arenas we would see their numbers deflated as opposed to their home numbers... a lot of those "possible" stocks are not getting credit by the opposing score keeper
@@nathanbartel9442
"I suspect we will see that LBJ has inflated assists. Actually I suspect we will see that this generation in general has an easier time getting an assist on the box score"
In this day and age where high quality recording is everwhere, and stats tracking are paid way more attention than before, with potentially AI image recognition stats recording... I think the chance of inflated stats is much less than before.
MJ is so goated, that we are debating was it 8 blocks or 6 lmao
One steal so goated 😂
@@296224001 How about ppg? Is that goated? 🤔
Man may have had only 30 legit steals on the season if the average inflation applies to the whole season. He better swat the shit out of that ball. He was also getting help defense blocks.
Just to think he got 28 steals and over 40 blocks in 10 games...any guards having it surely best defenders...but it is important to note, DPOY is a media award, it is more of an eye test than stats...just like mark gasol in 2013, he even not a 1st team all nba defense...but was voted as DPOY....
@@andrewcook1246lmao your math is way off. The guy who posted this video said he had 20 definite steals in 10 games. So that's 2 steals per game minimum x82= 164 steals for the season at minimum. Stop it bronsexual
A lot of those possible blocks looked like actual blocks. Remember the ball doesn’t have to change direction to be classified as a block, because as long a the defender touches the ball and the shots missed it’s technically a block.
Getting even a finger on the ball will usually cause a noticeable change. A lot of these looked like they had 0 contact.
Facts!! Those possible blocks looked like blocks.
I mean every shot was within 15ft of the rim. At 6’6 with a 40+ in vert playing free roam defense I would hope he could get a couple weak side blocks 😂
@@javonemitchell8225 Hating… Blow it out ya -
@@quann06 just tell me where I lied and I will
As a Bulls and MJ fan, much respect to you for doing your due diligence, conducting your own research, and not taking the word from something written in an article...... With that being said, I still believe MJ was the defensive player of the year over the runners-up Eaton and The Dream
I'm A Mega Fan Of Michael Air Jordan From Chicago. I Must Admit U Have Done A Phenomenal Job With This Video. Killing My Childhood Softly 😅
But Hey I Respect The Facts & I Respect U More & Your MJ's Content.
Keep Doing Amazing Videos.
Lastly Michael Air Jordan Still My GOAT!! 😂
How he can be the dpoy if he’s smnumber where inflated lol 😅
@@e.r.a2744 *were* lol
Well damn, this isn't standard RUclips fodder, this is outright journalism (with integrity to boot). I'm not confident that you can win a Pulitzer for video journalism (as opposed to print), but someone get Jonny the equivalent. Excellent work Sir.
We need more people like you, Jonny, not just on RUclips but everywhere. Evidence-based reasoning is humanity's greatest tool and, over the past decade or so, we've been throwing that away. I appreciate your honesty and dedication to finding the truth, regardless of what anyone (including your audience, or even yourself) might want to believe.
It's bc the ppl who cry the loudest have the most privilege they need to protect. Politically and social politics no one debates just gets offended. And we know which side is the offended dude
Excellent video. If subscriptions were determined by quality, you would have 10x as many as you do now.
Nah he’d have like 100x
It looks like the blocks where he swipes the ball before or as the shot is being released my have been counted as steals, which would explain why the steals were higher and the blocks were possibly lower than what you found.
Bingo
That was my initial impression as well.
At this rate, we need to watch all the games ever recorded and see if every stat is true 😂😂😂
Except immediate catch and shoot assists, they are fake, by the definition. But no one bats an eye.
Every single game for every single player
All games that are properly archived
exactly what i've been saying
this brings into question every mvp and every award winner in nba history
we have to go through EVERY GAME from EVERY era and count everything ALL OVER
or we have to shut up and admit jordan is better than lebalco "2011 finals" james
Great video!! Much respect!! At the end of the day this is why “stats” are never the only thing that matters, Michael Jordan’s defensive ability and reputation was based off effort and skills not numbers!! 🤝🏾
We know you jock sniffer for mj. I bet you was so confident that Johnny was going to come on here to say that write was lying but now you are humble and it’s not all about numbers my lbj a dude you hate had crazy margins of stats like that you would say the nba is rig
You're reaching a little bit, back in the 90s it was speculated that Jordan was rigging games. The NBA was looking for a way to keep going when bird magic were on the way out jordan was it. They turn to blind eye to a lot of things. Redid the rules Common nobody said anything but it was very obvious if you lived in that time. I mean you have to watch every game and run the statistics yourself but it was very clear that Jordan wasn't everything they made him out to be. But there's a lot of coping going on in the comments section. And a lot of people keep forgetting that it is a business at the end of the day and Jordan was a billion dollar piece of merchandise and they had to build him up. At the end of the day the NBA was looking to cash in and he was the golden ticket. Why so many people are shocked that his stats are padded and coping at the level of which I've seen in the comments section just makes me laugh.
Sounds like you guys are taking the L, glad to see you’re maturing but just take the L with grace, stop coping so hard 😂
@@cglucas44 Actually you make me laugh.. Jordan wasn't everything he was cracked up to be? I'm not even a MJ Stan. You're deadass diminishing all of Jordans accomplishments with what proof? 10X scoring champ. 6X champion. They inflate those stats Bozo? How about his 1st team all-defense selections every season? Inflated... I know exactly what you are. A Lebron fanboy, or Nick Wrights burner... Coping he says... Nah you're just talking out of your rear end... That'd actually coping, you Sped.
@@cglucas44 Speculated Jordan was single handedly RIGGING GAMES.... Guy, where's the proof. My god you're a clown.
Never clicked on a video so fast. I was just BUZZING to get your opinion on this.
It seems possible some potential blocks were counted as steals (no replay, bad angle, etc.)... How odd is it that all the potentials seem to add up: Steals 47 recorded, 33 possible (-14)... Blocks recorded 33, possible 48 (+15).... at any rate, it was clear that MJ was a menace on D... the effort alone is insane... well deserved DPOY... (You should see if his road games are accurate, or maybe undercounted?)
No
Obviously that’s what happens. Result: still a nightmare for the offense. DPOY
@@ZorzGaming no egg brain
I believe there is one thing that you aren't taking into consideration, it seems like the statistician was counting every "block" that didn't end up touching the rim, as a steal. If you use the "possible blocks" which didn't touch rim & count those as steals, the total number of steals would be SIGNIFICANTLY less inflated.
Realistically, even if some of the "possible blocks" did end up grazing the rim, the statisticians could have potentially been instructed by the league to count these types of deflections as steals depending on the outcome of said deflections.
That’s what I said. Some were counted as steals.
DPOY isn’t a stat award. Stats are a factor, but not the only one. DPOY is more about the overall impact a player has on the defensive end. Jordan probably deserves more credit for his defense than any of the GOATs.
And, the amount of blocks that he was getting, is out of the ordinary for his position.
This is exactly my point. Rodman won 2 dpoys and his blocks and steal averages are less than 1 per game respectively
The bill Russel disrespect is wild
@@rickeysmiley1055I mean rebounds is a defensive stat….
And like both of Rodman dpoy could’ve easily went to another player like Hakeem or Robinson
(I forgot the exact years Rodman won)
@@universalplayz7496Rodman plays defense. Doesnt just rebound. He stops scorers. Remember that game Rodman nearly injured Pippen and let Pistons win?
Injuries are also part of defense. The point is to stop opponents people from scoring
been watching you for a few years now and i have no idea how you don’t have 1 million subscribers. you and jimmy are by far the best NBA youtubers and it’s not close
Literally they’re my dynamic duo in general basketball talk
He's not as big because short form content rules social media right now and you have to have an attention span longer than a minute to watch his videos 😹
Rusty buckets is great as well
Jimmy who?
@@temmereJxmyHighroller
Jordan fan here. Excelent work as usual. I'm not gonna put my preference over true. Jordan still my goat and def DPOTY that year.
So i was someone who both played basketball and kept game stats from middle school to even college and I'll tell you in the action its so hard to truly determine definitive stats in most cases we record based on perception. Also what we recorded is what stays in the box score. So I don't think it's inflated what I think was in those games some blocks were recorded as steals.
yep this is exactly true and wouldn't be understood by a nerd spending the whole day in his room with his keyboard.
I bet bro was like:
Oh no i gotta watch old nba footage … … 😏
Better than watching new NBA footage 😂
He should of watched it on a Sony Trinitron CRT TV and it would have looked great. You aren't supposed to watch SD Video on HD Screens.
@@Sota_Pops you enjoy seeing dudes miss wide open shots constantly everytime down the floor lol ?..
@@joshsmindsetyou enjoy dudes that barely play any defense even though most also dont play every game in the season? How about our premier players flopping?
@@Sota_Pops but the quality is horrible and sometimes you cannot even see the jersey numbers clearly
Watching how many shots Jordan blocked/contested is what stood out the most to me. Even if his steals were highly inflated you can't deny the fact that he is a great defender and easily the best shot blocking guard. Great Video!!
Thank you! That's what stood out to me as well. He contested any shot within arms reach. His man or not. But the Legion of LeDoom will focus on stat discrepancies and deny his greatness on the defensive end.
@@True-Believer616you peole call acuse Lebron of statpading to beat kareem's record while jordan was literally stat padding
LMAO because the stat keeper is the same as being down 30 in the forth chucking up shots. LeBron got so many rebounds from ad last year. If ad boxed out and tapped the ball to bron, bron got the RB, if LeBron tapped it to anybody he still got the RB. Superstars get the stat privilege. It's the same with MJ in the 88 with steals, he got it at home whether he tipped it or got the ball.
Jonny Arnett did a great job in dissecting MJ's DPOY home blocks but his overall assessment of Jordan's steals was inaccurate due to his omission of several key factors. Jonny analysed 10 of MJ's 41 home games from the 1987/88 season (6 of these were the games referenced in Haberstroh's article) and by far the 2 biggest takeaways from his analysis were...
1. Jordan was 100% deserving of his DPOY award.
2. His block count was UNDER credited and his steals were over credited, by a very similar number.
Most of us were already aware of number 1, but number 2 was undeniably the most interesting and revealing discovery in the entire video. The footage from the 10 games revealed that there were 15 occasions where Jordan got his hand on the opponent's ball, disrupting the offense and causing a deflection...Jonny assessed these deflections as 15 'possible blocks', but noted that the Statistician did NOT credit these 15 blocks to MJ's official block count. Ask yourself this question. If that Statistician was purposely inflating Jordan's defensive stats, why would he UNDER credit Jordan's blocks? If his goal truly was to inflate Jordan's defensive stats, he UNDOUBTEDLY would have credited every single one of those 15 'possible blocks' to MJ's block count...but he didn't. It's obvious to any rational person what happened here...there was no 'gifting' of steals, the Statistician clearly assessed those 15 'possible blocks' as steals and placed them accordingly. Yet, despite this obvious surplus/deficit correlation between MJ's blocks and steals, Jonny STILL concludes at the end of the video that his steals were intentionally inflated, which simply doesn't make any sense!
The question is, was the Statistician correct in assessing those 15 'possible blocks' as steals? Should they have been labelled as blocks, as Jonny identified them in his video? To answer that question, research would need to be conducted into how blocks and steals were analysed in the 80's, the rules of that Era would have to be factored in and consideration given to exactly how these rules were consistently interpreted and officiated. I was watching a 1992 Bulls game earlier today and on 2 occasions Jordan got his hand on the ball in the passing lane, deflecting the ball to his teammates and the commentator announced 'another steal for MJ ' on both occasions, indicating that steals were credited to the player causing the deflection...that's not consistent with how Jonny analysed MJ's steals during his breakdown. Also, something else that wasn't accounted for in Jonny's video is the fact that the Statisticians in the 80's didn't have the luxury of relying on instant replay or multiple camera angles, they had to make an assessment from the sidelines in real time. It's highly plausible that, from the vantage point of the Statistician, some of those 'possible blocks', may have been mistakenly interpreted as steals, especially when you consider how lightning quick MJ's movements were, his hands in particular. Either way, it's obvious to any logical person there was no 'gifting' of stats, the Statistician clearly interpreted those 15 'possible blocks' as steals and that is evidenced by the fact that Jordan's blocks were under credited.
BOTTOM LINE: Jordan's blocks were UNDER credited and his steals were over credited, by a very similar number...that is the crucial point here. A Statistician intent on artificially inflating defensive stats simply would not UNDER credit one of those defensive stats. Logic dictates that those 15 'possible blocks' were considered steals by the Stat-keeper, either correctly or incorrectly. It's important to note that even if Jonny is correct and those 15 deflections are in fact blocks and not steals, Jordan's official steals count for those 10 games would indeed need to be reduced by 15, however, his official block count would then need to be INCREASED by 15. So no matter what way you slice it, whether those 15 deflections are placed in the steals column or in the blocks column, it wouldn't change Jordan's overall defensive stats in those 10 games because you would essentially be subtracting 15 from one defensive column and adding 15 to another defensive column! The fact is, when you combine the total number of blocks and steals that Jonny tracked, into one single figure, that figure almost perfectly matches the box score...ergo, no evidence of stat inflation.
Ironically, all this digging into MJ's DPOY season has only further cemented how deserving he was of that award. Watching those 10 games alone, the first thing that jumps off the screen is the fact that he was absolutely everywhere on the court! Closing down passing lanes in the post and the perimeter, forcing turnovers, full court pressure, half court pressure, denying the ball, a 6ft 6 rim protector with a penchant for blocking 7ft centers, suffocating man-to-man defense, exceptional help defense...all whilst carrying the offensive load for the Bulls. The speed at which he moved around the court was simply mind-boggling! His explosiveness, jumping ability, hustle, quick GIANT hands, defensive IQ, fundamentals, timing and instincts, were all truly remarkable. Add to that his laser focus on disrupting the opponent's offense and his determination to never give up on a play and you have a DPOY winner. Jordan's relentless defensive pressure meant that his opponents always had to account for where he was on the court, which led to them frequently turning over the ball and forcing difficult shots. Jonny's video correctly highlights the fact that, as impressive as MJ's steals and blocks were, a lot of what he did defensively cannot be seen on a stat sheet. This is true for any All-Time Defender. In 1987/88, a panel of 124 sportswriters and broadcasters analysed the defensive efforts of each DPOY candidate, in each of their 82 games and concluded that Jordan was the best defender in the league. Reducing his official steal count by 15 and increasing his block count by 15 would not change that, it would have ZERO impact on the validity of his DPOY award. Period.
One final thing worth noting...if you read back through Habertroh's article, not once does he mention the fact that Jordan's blocks were UNDER credited in the 6 games he claims to have analysed. NOT ONCE.
@@ryankayombya7576this would be more understand if you spoke better english
A well-researched, balanced video on the 1988 DPOY debate. Even if we go by the "definitive" counts, in 10 home games Jordan averaged 2 SPG (20 total steals) and 2.8 BPG (28 total blocks). Still insanely impressive. Subscribed.
Outstanding. I will keep coming back for this excellent analysis of old games!
Jordan's defense was the very definition of lockdown.
Jordan was an elite on ball defender. His steals totals are off the chats great. Only CP even compares to MJ.
Combined with Pippen, Rodman and a re-designed Harper, those 1996-1998 Bulls were a defense nightmare for any team.
Yeah b it they were inflated… did you not even watch the video
@@jrpdude8486even if he did he’s a Jordan Stan so 🤷♂️
@@jrpdude8486You can find discrepancies with lots of players, even today but is it intentional or not? Like Bron in his first 2 seasons had a lot more blocks at home than on the road and his biggest 2 happened at home? Inflated? I don’t know but the home to road difference is large. And by watching what’s available here it looked like Jordan’s blocks were counted wrong in a negative way. And what about the road stats? Are some deflated? I mean this supposedly happened with other star players too. So if they’re really boosting stats of some home stars what would stop em from not counting every one for a visiting star player.
And I don’t even see why Tom included blocks unless he was trying to intentionally swing things a certain way. Those appear to be less than what he really got for the most part
@jrpdude8486 steals and blocks are indicators of defense, but not whole confirmation of defense. Can a player be a great defender while recording few steals or blocks? Of course they can, as Johnny cited in the case of Rodman. Garnett is another example of a brilliant defender who's greatest contributions were more disruption than forcing TO's.
Secondly, stats are tracked by people. People make errors. People have biases. People blink and miss what actually happened. The use of video is still relatively new to the league and even newer to the general public
I wholly agree with Johnny's conclusion that despite the statistical record not aligning with occurrences on the floor, it's clear that Jordan's defensive presence and impact was felt on every possession.
This impact is directly correlated and very likely the causation for the Bulls increasing win totals and championships.
The scoring of Jordan, especially in his first 9 years is impressive, but it was his willingness to commit to an elite defensive level on each possession of each game that changed Chicago from a franchise given away by Steinbrenner in a sauna deal to the most coveted spirts franchise in the world for a period in the 1990's.
This video has only 40k views but is much more influential than just that. I decided to watch it just now after hearing from two different people about it. Never had that experience with a video under 1mil views.
I was searching for these games just for the sake of knowing the “truth”. Thank God you found’em first and did this amazing video.
The sheer amount blocks and shot altering contests was insane. The steals, though inflated, is still pretty good. I think he earned that DPOY. BTW, this was definitely one of your best videos I've seen. Keep it up.
Over Hakeem, mark Eaton, and Ewing?
@@donaldf9055 I would say yes. You got to remember that this a guard literally throwing block parties like he's a center just hanging out in the paint. Like Jonny said, straight up shot blocking machine.
@pasigiri not to mention Mark Eaton who's team is on record for being under a cloud of doubt himself.
I mean if we're scrutinizing Jordan's steals so harshly, then why don't we count how many turnovers Jordan created that didn't result in a steal! I'm sure there are far more forced turnovers Jordan caused then there are steals he didn't earn
@@pasigiribut like mj doing something like a center doesn’t make him better than a center who’s doing it even better…
If we are being honest centers always always always provide more defensive value especially in the 80s than a guard could ever dream of
And truthfully if anyone was truly asked in 1988 if they’d rather have a player with Mjs defense or Hakeem’s defense
It’s always going to be Hakeem
You did a great job of not allowing any bias to influence you decision and brining up actual relevant information instead of Haberstroh did. Being able to present a topic with the intentions of shining light on something instead of trying to use it to tear another player down to elevate another player, is a lot more digestible than what his article did. Great job! Can't wait to see your upcoming videos on earlier players.
Johnny, thanks for showing all the footage and how you evaluated each game yourself. Integrity is much appreciated. Don't ever let it slide.
Fantastic video, excellent content. Been watching for years, and the videos improve steadily as time goes on. Thanks for the quality entertainment.
Great video.
I'm glad to hear you're finally doing the "real" dpoy in the 80's as I enjoyed the previous ones
Awesome vid, Jonny. At least now, we have better context of the era on the defensive end. The effort & time you put into your videos is what keeps me coming back for more.
I'm excited for your companion video to this as well
Thanks for the analysis. Most stats in every game for every player probably have errors. Klutch Sports cherry picked what they needed to undermine Jordan's DPOY without ever trying argue that someone else deserved it more than him.
Thing is, MJ wasn't first or last player with different numbers. Or with biggest difference between home&away games. It's still happening even right now.
Does this take dpoy from MJ? Hell no... he deserves it in every inch.
MJ should have had it in 87 as well.
Except he is. If the avg stls difference is applied to the whole season MJ may have only had 50 legit steals for the season instead of 200
Idk of any other players whos totals doubled at home xD. If thats the case Hakeem wouldve been avg 8 blks at home and 5 stls xD
@@andrewcook1246I’ve also heard that away arena stat keepers routinely counted less stats for visiting players in this era, so they should even out if anything
@andrewcook1246
There's a chart with players having biggest difference in steals playing home&away. MJ 1988 is not even top 50.
@@MaximusR93 Cool. We can cancel all of them along with Jordan
Another MJ video and yet another hit 👏
The fact of the matter remains ... even with all of MJ's god-given athletic ability which is supreme to any other athlete, it was also his *EFFORT* that was unmatched by anyone before or since. This video shows he had a non-stop motor, was always around the ball in order to recover it, whether he was the one to knock it loose or not -- his presence and his threat was always felt. The number of times in this video that you see MJ chasing down a point guard from one end of the court to the other, harassing him and eventually knocking the ball loose for a steal -- and then still have that same energy & breakaway speed in transition, is insane. MJ was all up in your business with ferocious on-the-ball defense, but was also extremely dangerous playing the passing lanes and blocking 7-foot tall centers. He wasn't a primadonna, who lived off his star reputation -- he was also the *hustle guy* for the team. Unlike players that stand there in the corner on defense, doing nothing with their hands other than blowing on them, wiping them on his jersey, or resting his hands on his hips while the opposing team blows by him or his teammates for an easy layup/dunk...😉As someone else said, even if you took away Jordan's 87-88 home stats, he STILL would have finished 4th in the league in steals just based on his "un-biased" road stats🤣
A video like this should have millions of views. I doubt it will because it is honest and unbiased. WE NEED MORE CHANNELS AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!! This is the only channel I come to for basketball history and facts. If you move to covering the current issues, I'm here for it!!!
1. As you said, the number of steals and blocks is not the only standard for deciding whether someone is a great defender or not. You got to take into account defensive win share and the field goal percentage he held his man to.
2. Regardless of the stats, it's clear that MJ was a monster on defense. He's a combination of excellent prediction, athleticism, speed, desire to dominate, and improvisation.
3. I bet that every home court stat keeper did the same for their main star. I can't believe that Isiah, Bird, Magic, Hakim, etc. weren't getting favors from their people. I think this was a common practice back then because everyone knew that everyone was doing it.
4. Stat keepers, like referees, make mistakes. It is impossible to see everything well.
5. I'd love to see how MJ's stats were recorded in away games. It's very likely that many of his blocks and steals were not counted by opposing team stat keepers.
6. MJ's after-reduction stats are still amazing for a guard.
Some good points here, about 5 and 6... I mean yes it's unfortunate that the stats are inflated but it's also crazy seeing people act like his adjusted stats aren't insanely impressive as well. And he has a lot of away games that season where his steals/blocks are just as crazy.
This matter actually opens a HUGE Pandora's box depending on who we might want to look at, players from those years until most recent years. I think Klutch made a big mistake taking this path as it can greatly backfire against Lebron.
While I agree with your assessment, the issue I have is that stats have always been (for better or worse) the end-all-be-all when discussing Player 1 vs Player 2. But when we discuss the validity of statistics with Player 1, suddenly, "stats aren't everything." Suddenly, the conversation becomes esoteric and nebulous. Even when MJ said, about his 1988 DPOY, _“Leading the league in steals certainly helped."_ This illustrates Jordan was acutely aware statistics are the primary measurement of a player's recorded effectiveness. Even if other ancillary activities that contribute (hustle plays) don't make the stat column.
I can't remember what games I watched over the last few years (on hardwood classics maybe?) But there were Bulls away games where the announcers HATED Jordan. While watching, I was noticing mike getting more blocks than the announcers were admitting. I don't know what the box score said in the end, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Mike's stats were sometimes underreported on the road. Especially in Cleveland and Detroit where they HATED Michael.
@@dervish816 Just looking into LBJ's travel violation and offensive fouls, that will be sufficient in my opinion, if we want to look deeper, his assist can also be in the conversation.
Damn dude you put in the work. Honestly just happy i learned about that website to watch games
This is an incredible video concept and production. You are amongst the best sports creators on the platform!
I appreciate you taking the time to research and prepare this video, thanks Jonny
This is honestly one of the best video you have made. Great work 👏
As a Jordan fan, I find this video incredible. Even with his numbers inflated, this will put everyone under the microscope: old school and today's NBA.
No it won't. It's an MJ smear campaign. It was done just for 1988 the year he won DPOY because Lebron never won one and he wanted one so bad. So the next thing is for certain "journalists" and "analysts" to try to discredit it so that Lebron can look better.
Great work and great video. Thanks! Looking forward to this type of videos in the future. Subscribed.
This is some grade-A sports reporting. Incredible work. Thanks for taking the time. The transparency and accountability are refreshing. Looking forward to more.
After making this video… my brain will now be mush for the next 24 hours, but I hope you guys enjoy!!!! This one blew my mind
Good job man! The editing was gorgeous, and people clearly dig it. Appreciate you, brother!
You are truly the goat. Talk about doing your homework and presenting information without bias. If I could hit the like button a million times I would. Great work
Been watching for years. This is possibly your best video. Excellent journalism. Keep up the great work!
Great video johnny! Been watching u for a while now and ur channel just keeps getting better! Never stop
What almost never gets mentioned is that several witnesses stated that inflating stats of the hometown star player was a fairly common thing, so this wasn't only done for Jordan. In order to really determine wether he had a significant advantage there, one would have to go through every home game of the ~top 3 DPOY-candidates of that season, not only a bunch of Jordan's games
excellent watch! very instructive and so refreshing to be “served” real information with backed up data. Congrats
Great video as always! Looking forward to more videos like this 💯
Just amazed at the effort and his activity on all of these plays regardless of the numbers. Nobody is that relentless today, nobody.
Appreciate the research. Either way, as you mentioned, the award isn't given for best stats.
First of all, congrats on reaching 190,000 subs. Definitely well deserved. Second, it’s crazy that, at least in this sample size, MJ possibly had more blocks than steals.
Great Video! All numbers aside, watching this MJ defensive footage is incredible. I have never seen a guard contest shots like that
The amount of effort you put into your videos is truly amazing. I am such a big fan of your content. Thank you!
Thank you for just being truthful without bias or agenda. So many people on both sides are just crazed when the subject is broached but this video was amazing!
This is absolutely excellent work. Thank you Jonny for the great content always.
I love videos of you doing research like this, thank you!!
Maybe Jonny’s most important work. This could honestly do numbers for his very underrated channel.
Commenting here to help with traffic. This video needs to go viral. God, i love you, Jonny!
You must be a LeBron stan so no wonder you love this video!!!
@TA-ht4jo Fuck no. I hate LeBron. I love Jonnys research, and it should be the highlight. Fans like you are sickening. Play to the strengths of your goat candidate but acknowledge their weakness. Don't make a straw man of your competitors. You want to beat them at their best.
@@TA-ht4jo MJ didn't give a fuck about his stats, nor should you. It's the FluBronsexuals that keep pushing him as the goat because of stats.
I’m going to share this in my community. Great work Jonny Arnett!
When I heard you say “I had to watch more games” I remembered why you’re the man JA 🫡
What an in depth dive, Sir. Kudos! Can't wait for more. Will definitely share this! Keep up! From the 🇵🇭. 😉
Great job on doing the painstaking research (the cutaway to the popcorn and Dr Pepper was great, lol) and presenting results impartially, dude. This is a great illustration of the old Winston Churchill quote "History will be kind to me... for I intend to write it!". 😁
My!! What a video!! What a dedication! 🎉❤❤❤
Amazing work as always dude. Appreciate you putting this together.
The thing I appreciate most about this video is the link for where to find DVDs of old sports games. I’m definitely checking that out…yes, MJ was still the DPOY in 1988. It’s not just the numbers on the page. He was dominant in affecting the game in numerous categories, both sides of the court. When you compare him to Mark Eaton, who came in 2nd, you can see who the real winner was. It was still Michael Jordan.
Looking forward to your new series. Thank you for this
This just shows again that Jordan was the best help defender in the history of the game
You realize that "help defense" was illegal when he played? At least by today's definition. It is far more acurate to say he had a good sense of when double teaming/rotating was appropirate
@cadenweaver5612 fair enough 👌 Jordan had THE best sense of when yo double team. So impressive to see that back then, this is another reason why Jordan would smother defenses today in my opinion and would be able to compete for DPOY almost every year
I can offer a possible theoretical thread to pursue for Magic's reduction in steals.
In his first season, the Lakers already had a very quick and explosive point guard in Norm Nixon. The NBA was stocked with small quick point guards and there was little chance a 6' 9" Magic, despite his excellent linear foot speed, had the lateral quickness to stay in front of, or deny space to, these quicker guards. Thus, Magic had the ability to lay off and focus on filling passing lanes or using g his size to great effect in the lane. The 3pt shothad just been introduced and it would be more than a decade before play style accepted the mathematical benefits of excessive 3pt FGA. The Lakers also had Kareem, who was near the end of his prime, but still a massive defensive presence, and the great Jamal Wilkes. Thus, Magic received the defensive benefits that Worthy received on offense: that being opponets needed to be aware of, yet not focused on.
Magic's greatest contribution, in my opinion, was always his rebounding. His huge size advantage would enable him to get into the lane, grab an errant shot and then use his great speed and dribbling to sprint to the opposite rim. There was ZERO guards in the NBA capable of even slowing Magic down once he started his break.
Great insight! I'd still love to take a look at it, but love your added context!
@@jonnyarnett as I said, it's a theory. Theories require scrutiny and testing. I encourage your research and will receive the results with even more questions. Questions lead to answers. Answers lead to truth.
This is why I like this channel..smart fans who understand the game. None of the nut hugging for certain players I see elsewhere.
@jbellflower83 Also, apparently Jordan had no left hand. This was obviously what prevented Jordan from leading the NBA in ppg 10x, winning 5 MVP awards and leading his team to 6 titles while securing the Finals MVP in each of those series wins?
WTF does it require to be a "writer" anyway? It seems almost devoid of any intellect or logic application as a TV news anchor or WH press corps.
@@donshults7772 your preaching to the choir here man. I've been saying for years the arguments I see brought up by these "analysts" and "writers" and "reporters" are usually so full of holes and fallacies when you apply just a smidgen of logic to them that it really does make you wonder how this crap got pushed through in the first place.
Vids like this are why I’m subscribed. The truth is always put first and as someone born in 2002 i have no first hand knowledge of the game’s history. GREAT VIDEO I WISH I COULD LIKE IT 2 or 3 MORE TIMES🔥
Wow! You went above and beyond here, while also showing a fair and balanced approach in your analysis. This is probably the best basketball channel on RUclips, for several reasons.
Famtastic work, Jonny! Thank you for all your efforts, they are greatly appreciated. 👍👍
Does it change my mind about MJ, HELL NAW. Also SHOUTOUT to you for putting in the EXTREME effort and finding that site, that thing is GOLD MINE. You should have more subs, my guy. I agree, I have always said Jordan is the best shot blocking guard ever, you just confirmed it.
I subscribed so I can hear future videos on this topic. Loved show
Right! I remember you have told us in another channel that your dad recorded every playoff series from the 80s on VHS, what a legendary moment to respond with it! 🔥
Edit: And i wrote my comment a little too soon i guess? Because he had to look for the videos somewhere else.
Lol, unfortunately I didn’t have THESE games on my own tapes. Most of my VHS tapes consist of general Playoff games, all star games, and Lakers regular season games. Unfortunately I don’t have too many Bulls regular season games on VHS, so I had to look elsewhere.
@@jonnyarnett Yeah, I didn't remember that distinction right away, your dad recorded the playoffs, but not the regular season.
I was WAITING for this video
Absolutely fantastic video! Great work 👏
Hey Johnny I watch your channel weekly. I admire the amount of hard work you put into these videos. Well done once again 👏
Lets dive into it
that was a great video. explaining both sides and checking other games as well. i was hoping to see any Away games reviewed. looking forward to your next vid
ONE of my favorite channels, just because of this type of videos, thanks man.
Impressive time and energy you invested to research, get the games and edit this video. Excellent work
This is some of the highest quality content I've ever seen. Excellent work! I'm super excited for the follow-up/similar themed videos you have planned! I've been lurking, but you definitely earned a sub on this one.
If you liked this then check out JxmyHighroller. He's even better
Excellent video and analysis. The like is well deserved. Thank you.
Amazing video. Looking forward to similar objective videos like this.
really great video! loved how you handled things without personal bias!
Wow, this one took a LOT of work and dedication. Thank you!
Great video, appreciate the effort you put into this one
going to spread this video like wildfire i’ve heard so much about this topic and this video adds so much clarity to everything
Amazing content, this is why I'm subbed. Keep up the good work!
Looking forward to the Stockton assist video
Thanks for you complete honesty in these video. There should be more fans like you who can put aside their opinions.
And even with the inflation, people could never convince someone who watch Michael that he wasn’t one of the greatest defender ever.
I agree he is a really good defender but I hope nobody thinks his stats being inflated doesn’t make him a worse defender.
yeah even just from the eye test you can tell is he one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time its just that the stat inflation makes him go from great to otherworldly
@@jrpdude8486its only 1 year, 1988. The fact is, many of his blocks were counted as steals, which means... they were supposed to count them as something else.
@@jrpdude8486 Well People could say Jordan doesn't really deserve that dpoy award because we can't deny being the best stealer this season whith more than 3 was a big argument. But to be complete they should take the race and see if any one deserved more this season, and most people are too lazy
I wanted to hit the like button a thousand times. As someone that has placed Jordan on a pedestal, this video was very revealing and informative. You, good sir, have integrity and need to be an investigative sports journalist. I’m serious. You have a sincere and honest heart for this great sport and are willing to hold this very entity accountable. I’m very thankful. Thank you Jonny!!!!
Expert work Johnny. I wish I could like this twice.
This is one your best videos yet! Good work Jonny!
I can not wait to see this footage.