Lil known fact: Sixers statistician Harvey Pollack invented plus/minus stat. I was his intern in 02-03. He was with the nba since day 1 in 1947/49 with Syracuse Nationals. We did plus minus for the whole league and he released it in his book yearly. He would take interns out to dinner if we got a perfect sheet doing a game. He passed in 2015 in his 80s. NBA hall of Famer. RIP
One thing that amazes me is how MJ escaped these games without ever (if rarely) twisting an ankle. All that shooting in the key and close to opponents jumping out to contest a shot. I know he taped his ankles every game, but still. So many feet to possibly step on.
Jordan sprained his ankle in Game 5 of the 1992 Finals, Game 3 of the 1993 First Round, and Game 3 of the 1996 ECF. Stayed in the game each time and never missed any playoff games afterwards. His trainer Tim Grover had MJ do specific exercises to strengthen his ankles (and wrists) as preventative maintenance to better withstand injuries.
I watched Jordan and to this day, I haven't seen a more consistently dominant player than MJ in the playoffs. It was ridiculous to watch someone play 80+ games a season and still play every game in the playoffs with an even greater intensity than he did in the regular season - each and every year. As he aged, I watched teams creep even closer to the Bulls where it looked like someone would overtake the Bulls, and although the Magic beat the Bulls in 1995, it didn't feel as convincing as Jordan only played the last 17 games that season. Despite that, I was surprised at how good they looked in the playoffs - especially against the Magic since the Bulls were struggling during the season. I'm just glad I was able to witness MJ. Although I was also blessed to also see a rendition of His Airness in Kobe, who's also my favorite player, there was just something completely different about MJ.
At 17:55 you pretty much sum up why I think Jordan is the clear goat. I was 13 when Jordan won his first championship and it was my first year watching NBA more serious. For the next 6 playoffs of Jordan (not including comeback year), he was just unstoppable. I felt confident Jordan was easily the best player, best clutch player, and would win (except last ring when Jordan was aging). I’ve been watching basketball religiously since 1990 and not even lebron feels like Jordan. Shaq through 3 quarters was the closest I saw in dominating the game but his inability to take over at end of the game is why I still put lebron as the best since Jordan. I can’t make the same judgements about players before 1990 but since 1990, Jordan especially in playoffs has been the clear GOAT. That feeling of knowing with high certainty the bulls will win due to Jordan playing great ball and Just about always coming through in the clutch is something I probably will never feel again.
Jordan was a way better passer/ playmaker than I thought and gets credit for. You showed many amazing passes he made that I never seen or heard people talk about
Because people want to discredit that part of his game and only look at his scoring and sometimes his defense. He had 7 straight triple doubles when he played point guard for just 20+ games and that's something Magic nor LeBron ever did and both of them played the point position their whole career whether it was point guard or point forward. He also averaged 11 assists in the '91 Finals and was averaging more than Magic until the very last game when Magic had 20 to his 10.
Every video this channel has made is an absolute statistical and analytical masterclass, I enjoy every single one this channel uploads. Whether it be a recap of a game, a conversation of who was the best at their best, a regular analysis, every single video is entertaining, informative, and just down right amazing.
It's only a masterclass for people with a limited understanding of statistical analysis and its problems. Not trying to be insulting, but this is pop statistics, nothing particularly substantive here.
The thing is, Doug Collins' tactics were too reliant on MJ to carry the Bulls on his back, while Phil Jackson's triangle offense gave room for other players to grow.
No..that credit belongs to Tex Winter..its was the same staff when Phil took over the team..Phil backstabbed Doug Collins that's how he got the job cause he got kool with Jerry..the GM
I think more than anything, it made everyone else feel like an important part of the team. And it made every player interchangeable. MJ finally realized he could still get the shots he wanted, he just had to adjust to the offense and learn to attack from those sets. It paid off big time in his mid-30s because he took advantage of the post clear outs and developed into the best post-up guard ever. One of the best post-up players ever, actually. But all those other guys on the court had jobs and motions to make, they were a part of the team. That helps chemistry all around, especially on defense. A lot of people don’t understand how MJs acceptance of the Triangle really elevated the Bulls and made them what they became.
That Quote by Jordan about him not wanting to excel as a 3p shooter and why, SHOULD be talked about more instead of this ridiculous notion that he couldn't shoot threes.
I loved Jordan's quote at 3:39. Translation: Basically, I'm just too good at everything else to waste my time out there waiting for someone to throw me the rock.
The other thing people tend to not realize is when MJ played at North Carolina, college didn’t even have a 3 point line, and when he got to the NBA the 3 point line was only in it’s 6th year in the league. Unlike today, kids didn’t grow up practicing shooting three’s back then. So for him to have 3 point percentages slightly lower than Lebron who grew up practicing it just goes to show how good of a shooter he was.
@@Kashed Jordan is around below-average or decent in 3PTers (imo). Jordan when consistently attempting over a 3 a game in the regular season (89-93) has a % of 33.4% (not counting last 3-peat because 3-PT line was shortened) on 1.9 attempts. And in the postseason 35.7% on 2.5 attempts.
@@Kashed LeBron didn’t grow up practicing 3’s as a primary source of scoring. He actually developed that WAY late in his career which is extremely impressive. The 3pt era came well into the 2010’s
Although his 93 Finals against my Suns look more impressive you'll never convince me it was better than his 91 Finals. Game 1 he looked a bit nervous and didn't play great but from game 2 on he was just amazing, scoring, passing, rebounding, defense athleticism, intelligence, he just put it all together. He just seemed to be in complete control of the entire series after game 1 and just put 4 complete games together to completely suck any chance the Lakers thought they had at winning. He was incredible in other Finals as well but for me the first one was peak Jordan.
@@ThinkingBasketball I would say that first championship is his transition from the first stage of his career to the 2nd stage of his career. His 3rd stage would be 2nd 3peat. Stage 1 (pre-championship into first championship): Most athletic player ever. Unstoppable drive to the hoop and short jumper from 5-10ft. Stage 2 (first 3peat, certainly last 2 rings): Looses half a step but becomes arguably the best mid range shot creator / mid range shooter of all time. He is still the best player at taking it to the the hoop and scoring in the paint but just slightly behind stage 1. Stage 3 (2nd 3peat): Looses a full step but becomes arguably the best post playing guard of all time and maintains the best mid range shot creator / mid range shooter in the league. His ability to get the hoop diminishes by the end. That first championship he is still nearly at peak physical form while becoming the best mid range player ever.
@sk sure he did add some muscle, but it was also natural back then to loose little step by late 20s. They have much better sports medicine and training today to keep players on peak physical level for longer. Just look at Curry, Durant and lebron still all among top 7 players of the league despite being 37, 34, and 33...with Durant having some serious injury at 31.
yep,at that stage you could maybe quibble that his craftiness and game intelligence wasnt at absolute peak but it would have been pretty close,which is plenty good enough..but good lord,his athleticism and quickness at that point was still alien like and more than made up for anything you could say was slightly lacking and his skills and efficiency were extraordinary. obviously though,as with many greats,the great thing about jordan was his incredible baseline performance of consistent excellence during all his playoff runs except a wee bit of slippage in his final bulls season.so it is always nitpicking a bit,but yeah 91 jordan would be my favourite. and i realise that this video is pointing out the improvement of the supporting cast over time but that 91 squad minus jordan looks VERY ordinary on paper,which elevates jordans effort in breaking through for the title....yes we know about pippens greatness but when you dig into the roster and see names like grant,paxson,armstrong,cartwright,king,levingston these are not shining lights of basketball history and achieved very little of note outside of being known as part of that bulls team.in fact,of the few teams that have 3-peated,or even repeated,in the history of the game that must surely be the weakest supporting cast
Found this channel on a whim and it is leaps and bounds ahead of similar channels and I've only seen 5 mintues in. Seeing MJ broken down like this makes you realize just how scary good he was even more so.
It's staggering the impact the illegal defense rules had. Those doubles are so ineffective because the defense can't zone up to handle the lack of numbers.
@Rorschach 0007 I’m not saying there aren’t differences but in any given season everyone is playing under the same ruleset. KG and Duncan were in the 90’s playing in all star games with MJ
@@anthonynorman7545 So you’re saying that if MJ played today, he could play less restrictive zone defenses ? You see how every balances out ?. Just like lebron can get away with more handchecking and back downs in the 90’s
I think this shows that Jordan's work ethic and mentality helped give his teammates lasting improvements that stayed even if he left, as well as Scottie growing into his peak
16:20 That awesome plus-minus blueprint tailored by an older Jordan in his 2nd three-peat - he definitely lost athleticism but compensated some with his improved strength and guile and remained an all time level player
In his last four Bulls' seasons, he averaged 30 just once, and never shot 50%. As Charles Barkley once said, in Jordan's second time with the Bulls, he was still the best player in the league, but not as good as he had been (which Barkley said was the best ever).
@@phillipschuman4307 Charles Barkley is a certified idiot. He literally lost his only chance at winning a title because of his own stupidity. Jordan was still by far the best player in the league. His playing style simply changed from an aggressive driver of the ball, to a look first guard where if he didn't have a clear shot he was more likely to kick the ball out to elite perimeter shooters like Pippen, Kukoc and Kerr. That said, because of his trade mark fade away unless Jordan was smothered his jump shot was basically unblockable and where contact defense was still a thing, he became craftier because you can read the game with his classic "you reach I teach" eyes in the back of his head from people's touch.
@@phillipschuman4307 The late 90s have lower pace and less offensive efficiency league-wide. Second three-peat Jordan might not be as good as a player as the younger Jordan, but using points per game and raw percentages surely isn’t the way to go about the argument.
@@phillipschuman4307 That's a bit misleading because the pace was much slower during his 2nd threepeat. In fact, per 100 possessions he scored more in each of those season than he did in 1991-92 or 88-89 or his rookie year. First threepeat Jordan was clearly better than 2nd threepeat but the points per game is highly misleading. What you do see in the per 100 possions is that his scoring was similar to his first threepeat but his assist dropped from about 7.5 to 5.5 and of course his defensive stats like steals and blocks also dropped.
Also the league got 2 expansion teams to dilute the talent and the three-point line was shortened, which would obviously be a godsend for any perimeter player with declining athleticism.
Nice work. When you slow down some of these plays you really see the magic of Michael as a passer. His hang time and generally amazing physical skills allow him so many options for deception and setting up his teammates. It’s really unreal. Between that and his spin ability to twist to the basket or hit fadeaways while creating great working space from tight quarters I’m quite confident he’s the only player to be able to pull this off so effectively in the history of the game. Another reason to consider him perhaps the greatest ever. I’m happy putting him, Kareem and Russell at the top.
I just want you to know, Ben, that I can't understate my love for your content. Your last podcast on athleticism was so amazing. I honestly was still wanting more after almost 2 hours of pure genius. Great work!
MJ didn’t learn how to be unselfish under Jackson, he just had a coach who came up with a system beyond “give Michael the ball and get out of the damn way.” That was Doug collins through and through.
Well said. MJ had the college experience of playing with other competent players, but when he got to the crack circus in Chicago, he developed a “selfish” attitude because he pretty much had to. Getting Phil Jackson to help him understand to utilize actual nba talent once the Bulls drafted and traded for better players was critical. Imagining what the beginning of his career would look like if he was drafted by a team like the Bucks, Nuggets, or other good teams at the time is an interesting thought, I doubt he’d have the same “selfish” label early on.
That’s false. MJ had to spend a long time thinking about whether he wanted his usage to go down or not after Phil told him that’s what they’re gonna do.
yes, but also Pippen and Grant matured into good players. A combo of both Phil Jackson reshaping the offense and players maturing. I would say MJ had already been unselfish at least one season before Jackson became head coach.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson he said that but the reality is that Michael was always coachable. He listened to dean smith, collins and Jackson regardless of how much he complained to himself about it.
one thing you didn't mention, but also is something you can't quantify is what his team mates said about how MJ pushed them in practices. All his teams talk about how much better they became as players because of how hard MJ was in practice.
I'm more of a football (soccer) spectator and Leo Messi's teammates say the same about training with them. And if you go back a few years, Ronaldinho's teammates say the same, and even Gerard Piqué learned a lot when he shared squad with Cristiano Ronaldo back in Manchester United.
That's absolutely the reason why his teammates became better. Imagine a star player teammate heckling you each and every practice or actual game for you to work harder. It'll either break you or mold you into a better player. It's like going on an elite special forces course where men are separated from boys.
@@JulioLeonFandinho Phil Jackson was great but he can only do so much. Players make coaches. Not the other way around…. Give Steve kerr a g league team you think he’s gonna make them a contender. No
The most impressive and unimpressive part of Jordan’s game was his ability to take 1-2 dribbles to get his shot off. I say unimpressive because modern day fans are used to players taking 5-8 dribbles btw their legs before they shoot. They don’t appreciate his efficiency
facts! he still has the quickest first step anyone has ever seen. this goes overlooked often when analyzing his offense. he could literally blow by anyone with that 1st step..
His back to the basket game and ability to turn around and make plays instantly is so undervalued...kobe learned a lot from him and it's something lebron can learn from still...don't hold onto the ball too long for stats...mj didn't care if he got the assist
Jordan's main contribution to his teammates was how demanding he was in practice, forcing them to practice at a high level and his high expectations for focus and intensity during actual games. He didn't have to work at getting them involved in a game, the were already there from the beginning.
Yes this is the actual readson why bulls became a very good contender on and off the court. His background influence, mind setting to all his individual team mates. That is very reason even though he retired the bulls have maintained high efficiency on the court.
His maniacal drive was almost certainly an advantage to team building in the short term, but it also burned him out twice and the Bulls once. Why on earth would the Bulls decide to stop trying to compete in 1999 otherwise?
Yeah you can see it on film as well as the stats 91,92&96 were his best Championship seasons. Athletically his peak was undoubtedly 86-89 his speed, agility & explosiveness were otherworldly 👽
Even for your standards this is pretty nuts, I hope we get more comprehensive data for the 90s and earlier with all the games the NBA has locked away. It would be awesome if we could get some hard impact metrics for MJ but this is a great start.
yes. I appreciate how he referenced someone who took the time to measure Jordan's shot in 1991 season. That's the only way it going to be done now, someone has to literally go through all the games . Him shooting 51% from mid range means he was a better shooter than OKC Kevin Durant from midrange. KD saw 10ft to 3pt line fg% sky rocket in past 5 years as the league shooting improved due to more spacing creating from 3pt shots. Jordan's 91/92 shot data also seems inline with the 96/97 season when the NBA first measured shot data. In 96/97 he shot .492 from 10-16 and .521 from 16-3p for 50.6% from 10-3p which were 59% of his shots and he scored 30ppg. That's extreme high volume 10-3p and very high fg%. In 96/97, he took nearly 60% of this shots rom 10-3p vs 1991-92 he took about 40% of his shots from 10-3p.
The 2nd season of MJ first retirement the bulls was 34-31 and finished 47-35 after his return. People always bring up the first year where they almost make the finals but never bring up the 2nd year where they almost missed the playoffs without Jordan.
All things considered, bulls lost in the 2nd round. Huge difference between being knocked out in 2nd round, and winning a ship. All because you lost one player.
In 93 they added kukoc meyers kerr longley and wennington plus still had bj pippen grant scott cartwright king purdue...they did lose tucker doe as well and from the 90-92 teams cliff and hodges....
@@razkable They still got bounced in the 2nd round. The '08 Hawks won 37 games and took the Celtics to 7. They were not legitimate title contenders and neither were the Bulls.
One thing, we could mention in addition is, that very often they rested many of the starting 5 at the end of easy wins. So the weaker numbers "off Jordan" include big time-spans, when several better Bulls were off the court. But as one of those glad, who could watch that games on a regular basis, there is anyway no piece of doubt, that he was the difference maker. But you have to have a strong team, that hold you near enough, so there is that difference you can make at the end. 🙂 Great video. Thx for all that effort.
RIP Bill Russell: LEGEND in the NBA as well as a truely awesome gentleman warrior, a man who fought for actual equality. A man who opposed real injustice. An amazing 11 time champion player, and coach. The ultimate GREATEST OF ALL TIME! God bless his family in suffering their loss, a loss felt by all who knew the history of Bill Russell. #6LOVE ☘️💚😢
I respect your opinion. Bill Russell is considered one of the greats of all time, you cant compare his 11 rings to 80's to present, Celtics fought 10 teams on a regular season, it will be a different thing if they have 30 teams competing for the title. If Wilt and Rusell competed with Shaq,David,Hakeem,Ewing and the rest of the centers at least 7'0 in height or more, it will be a great thing to watch but they will not be as dominator as they are. Just my opinion
@@onestopgenuis9611 quick calculation, the odds of winning in the 90’s was 2.5x more difficult than winning in the 60’s. I would say 6 straight or 6 of 8 depending he you look at it is more difficult than Bull Russel 11 total. Or at least very close to being equal.
One of the greatest summaries i have seen about MJ.Not everybody is talking about the things you just put together in this video.Great work with a lot of things I even as I die hard MJ fan didn’t realize.👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thank you !! It’s no different from going to your local park & analyzing the competition. The eye test & feel you get watching someone play will always be the most important assessment
It's noteworthy when evaluating plus-minus to consider how much of an impact the player - in this case, MJ - made to the team's playing ability behind the scenes, like in training. I'm sure just having MJ on your team would improve your own standards and make you rev the tank just a but more while on the court.
This right here is facts.....Nobody was harder on teammates....His nickname for Bill Cartwright was Bill can't get right.....He told Horace Grant after a game he shouldn't be allowed to eat the post game meal because he got 0 rebounds....Hell he punched Steve Kerr in the face just to see how he'd react, if he fought back he knew he had someone he could count on in crunch time.....This method did not work for Kwame Brown but it did seem to work for Chicago....Toni Kukoc was another one that was ridden hard by Pippen and Jordan they didn't respect foreign players. The first game they played in the Olympics in 1992 against Croatia with Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc.....Pippen and Jordan split time guarding Kukoc because it was rumored Jerry Krause was trying to sign him. Kukoc struggled the 1st meeting but the 2nd one in the gold medal game he dropped 20 on Pippen and Jordan, Petrovic was lights out shooting and it kept the game reasonably close.....
Thinking Basketball has a video on the flaws of plus minus and proposes adjusted plus minus which factors in the talent or the players on the court when they star is playing and where the star isn’t playing, for both teams. The bulls often had Pippen leading the offense when Jordan sat so they staggered their offense so one of those two was alway on the court. This would reduce Jordan plus minus because they spread their offensive lineup so that they don’t drop significantly when Jordan sits
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson The bulls rotation wasn't any different than any other team's. Every team staggers the rotation of their best players. Note Brown and Tatum, Paul and Booker etc.
This more shows the greatness of coach Phil Jackson in creating a system that drew out the best of the role players. It also shows Michael greatness in fitting into that system and making his teammates better even when off the court.
Adrien Cook that is the falicy that espn etc keep pushing. It was not Phil’s system that Jordan adopted it was Tex Winters Triangle Offence system that Phil asked MJ to buy into. If MJ did a Lebron and insisted he remain the facilitator MJ would not be the goat. His teams would have fallen apart with him off court just as Lebrons teams have historically when he is on the bench and when he leaves the team. You guys are missing that MJ had to accept that new sustem and master it. That is not Phil Jackson’s doing. That’s the players buying into the system and also becoming proficient in it. Players make coaches. Lebron fans and the media give Phil Jackson way too much credit. Phil had no name as a coach when he came to Chicago. He was not a hall of fam anything before MJ and later Kobe and Shaq. Look how he could do nothing with the Knicks who did not have any players the caliber or high b-ball IQ like MJ or Kobe. He could do nothing. That is a true sign of great coaching like a Pat Riley etc have proven. Phil is good coach no doubt but he didn’t make MJ it’s the other way around. MJ, Shaq and Kobe skill made Phil the hall of famed he is.
@@snakebitten6967 you're missing the fact that it was Phil's coaching ability and system that got MJ to buy in. LeBron never had a coach with Phil's ability. Look at MJ and Kobe they both never won without him. LeBron made Spo and Spo hasn't won without LeBron. That's the different levels of greatness.
I'm so glad I stumbled across this RUclips channel years ago and have watched and listened to your stuff ever since. The best analysis with the right mix of stats and videos to explain and discuss basketball. I also read your book which really challenged the way I watch and think about basketball. Thanken you sir.
17:44 remains one of my favorite plays in the Bulls title runs. I downloaded a short video clip of that in 1997 off AOL and rewatched it dozens of times.
Imagine now a days him passing to actual shooters when doubled as he attacks and not being bogged down near the paint by 2 bigs on the court at a time smdh....the bulls now would just play rodman or grant at center instead of these wasted purdue king scott cartwright wennington a hair of salley and edwards in 96 even extra longley minutes smdh....the bulls would be better off going small with bj and paxon and harper kerr toni during these runs
David Robinson underrated. His teams averaged 22 PPG less with him off the court in the playoffs. I know this about MJ but that really stood out to me.
I think there are some tricky things going on with David Robinson.He lead the league in win shares per 48 min in the 97, 98 and 2000 seasons despite being not the player he was before and Duncan being the best player by far on the team. 35yr old Robninson was 14.4pts 8.reb 2.5blk yet higher ws per 48 than Duncan? My guess is some of the stats are inflated based on the lineups he played with.
@@Eightohh4tosevenfive7 Yes, it still stands out. It certainly shows he must have still been a force late in his career even if the number is a bit inflated. I can't remember who (maybe this channel) but there is a video looking at Robinson and his impact. He was a defensive machine even late in his career with Duncan and lots of advance stats showed that.
Yeah, I thought it was weird the way this video just brushes him aside because he didn't lead his team in minutes. He averaged over 35 minutes a game in the playoffs in 98-00 so it's no like he was cherry picking easy minutes against scrubs.
@@TapCat it showed the stat isn’t perfect. Those were very clearly Duncan teams but that stat showed the old David Robison was the star so obviously a flawed stat
Very informative. Very interesting and this one of the better video highlighting jordan and the team aspect without degrading like other podcasters do. Fantastic job
Thanks! Your effort is amazing. It showed MJ23 evolving as well from the charge the rim and explosive dunks to passing to open team mates to those midrange quick shots to it's even evolved form of reclined midrange shots. Like wine MJ23 aged better and craftier losing none of his assassin mentality. Peace and goodwill to you man!
3 stages of Jordan. 1. Pre championship and maybe first championship, Jordan was most athletic player ever and unstoppable drive to the basket. 2. First 3pt, he lost half step but became the best mid-range shooter / mid-range shot creator of all-time while still being the best at taking it to hoop. 3. 2nd 3peat, he lost a full step but he became the best post player of any guard in NBA history and was still the best mid range shooter / mid-range shot creator of all-time. He no longer was the best player at taking it too the hoop but he was still among the best at that until his last Bulls season where it became almost non-existent at times.
@@housesports000 yes, that’s what I was getting at. But he was a touch slower in the 2nd and certainly 3rd ring. He gained wait and was 29 and 30 which is when players start losing a step back then
Funny fact about the 1993 Finals is that Jordan averaged 41 ppg but shot terribly from the line. He left 2 ppg off the table just by missing FTs he normally made.
Great analysis, thanks! One thing that you could have added was mentioning differences over time in league scoring averages. The value of an extra point in terms of winning was higher when average scoring overall was lower wasn't it? From a quick look at basketball reference, the team league scoring average in the 1997 playoffs for example was 92 against around 100 in the early 90s, 100 in 2016 and 106 in 2017. So comparing raw points +/- undervalues significantly late 90s Jordan (and possibly early 90s Jordan too) compared to late 2010s and 2020s. In my mind this also makes Shaq's numbers even more impressive! All this not to take anything away from Lebron or Curry who obviously still look incredible on that chart (around minute 14)
The thing that these stats don’t really take into account directly is how and why his teammates improved during those years. We all know how hard MJ pushed everyone around him in practices - mentally and physically - and I think that variable returns again back to Michael being the main catalyst for the entire team.
Mj and pippen were the only bulls on even the 93 title team that were still on the 96 title team...that tells you how important mj was....pippen was great but having both made the bulls what they are
This video really put into perspective for me, as someone born well after MJs peak days, how brilliant of a player he was. I knew he was the GOAT but just these added layers of excellence that he consistently brought that don’t get talked about as much as his pure scoring and chips is so interesting. Fantastic video as always, this channel is always an inspiration for me to try create high quality videos of my own
What separates mj from the rest is his defensive impact...a big reason why hakeem duncan both malones rbinson and kareem get underrated as well by most...heck shaq and kobe were amazing defenders as well at times
Great content!! As a "old head" who grew up watching MJ, I remember being 6 or 7 yrs old recording games on our beta max n watching them before n after school as well as after Saturday morning cartoons n then go out n try to mimic almost every layup n jumpshot. Then the 90s rolled around and MJ gave the world a whole new culture in commercials, interviews, music, movies n of course sports!! Seeing ppl from other countries wearing Jordan jerseys n shoes blew my mind 🤯 thinking this guy really got the midas touch. To this day I haven't seen an impact like this... Maybe Football (soccer) with guys like Maradona n Renaldo. Then the dreamteam was jus next level. The 3peats, the scoring, the clutch moments, the defense all leading up to those championships!! Great time great era!! Sorry for the rant but seeing some of these clips jus reminded me of how MJ was a movement domestically n worldwide by the time his career was all said n done!! #23 #blackcat #blackjesus #air #hisairness #mj #MichealJordan
I think the best part of mj is he could hit the three but he chose instead to take tough contested double teamed long mid range twos and post up like a big and attack centers near the rim...he wasn't scarred...now a days he would score easier and get more assists and his defense would be even more crucial...he would be the perfect player in todays nba...even more effective than in his own era if you can believe it
Yes, I did see him live (on TV) starting with the 1982 NCAA title game. In his first few years in the NBA I didn't see him play much, and I thought "Is this guy really that great as people are saying he is". Then I watched him drop 63 on the to-be-champion Celtics, and said to myself "I guess so". As a Pistons fan in the late 80's, he drove me crazy, as I was realizing that Jordan was becoming one of the all time greats, and it got to the point where you just KNEW he was going to hit every clutch shot, or make a critical steal or pass, and that is what he did throughout the 90's (with a few VERY rare exceptions). The man combined other worldly taleny with relentless drive, hard work and compeitiveness to become the greatest ever.
This is a very impressive video, I love the way you broke down the numbers. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Jordan almost always killed my Knicks, but I always loved watching the game. Jordan spoke a lot of truth about the 3 ball. I tried to watch a basketball game awhile back, and everybody just stood on the three point line waiting for something to happen. I just don't enjoy watching that style of ball. I hope some players get back in touch with actually playing ball. Peace and love y'all 🤟
You pointed out that the bulls got better. But my question is, did he help make them better? That would make him more valuable. I think by hearing his teammates in other interviews he pushed them to be better.
I believe what you say to be true I believe when your main player is off 1:1 ratio is the goal I believe MJs personality from what we’ve seen would not be hard to imagine today’s commentary driving him to be the best 3 point shooter All speculation but you look old enough to get some things just don’t have any measurable metric
Exactly my thoughts here too. It has to be noted vs someone like Lebron, where Jordans 87 Bulls and 95 Bulls are brand new completely different teams, but nearly all of the players were brought to the Bulls and made better because of him and Phil Jackson. Someone like Pippen is likely an average ball player without Jordan.
Yeah, Kukoc brought MJ to his HOF induction to thank MJ for making him a better player. Pippen, too, said the same thing in the Last Dance. I'm sure other teammates have said the same thing. Oh, Scott Burrell, too.
As strange as it may sound to say about a player who scored as much as MJ. He surprisingly played a team game. He avg 6.3 rebounds and 5 2 assist for his career. Which is elite for a shooting guard. Phil Jackson brought a system where the Bulls could accomplish winning Championships. MJ made sure his teammates were ready for the wars of the seasons. I've still haven't seen another player quit like MJ.
@@solomons5669 on a time where PGs do most the assists and big men do most of the rebounds, it was elite. You're comparing it to this positionless era which makes your opinion moot.
Peace! It was truly a blessing to watch this man perform since UNC in 1981-82! I absolutely loved Georgetown and MJ sent the dagger 🗡 into their hearts.. MJ is definitely Top #1-3 All-time..
15:14 This is so beautiful. It shows a pure meditative state, being so in tune with the action at hand and realizing how to "be" as necessary, totally formless
I’m wondering: how much does scoring inflation affect plus minus differential? If scores are significantly higher, won’t the variance and therefore differentials tend to be higher as well?
@@Mates0nDeck There's literally examples of Jordan being double teamed in this video. Double Teams were not illegal during the 90s. Please, go study the rules a bit further and watch more film.
The thing about +/- across eras (comparing Jordan to LeBron/Steph/etc) is how much +/- gets affected by the pace of the game. Between 1996-1998 the highest PPG team in the NBA (in the playoffs) was 97.7 and between 16-21' playoffs, you've got Golden state putting up 112 PPG. The more rapid pace of the game favors newer players in +/- since they're getting more possessions to increase their +/-. This is why baseball has normalized stats, where things like batting average are compared to the average batting average of the year they played in to see how players stacked up against their competition instead of directly seeing how they stack up against players who are essentially playing a game with fundamental changes made to it. Instead of just looking at +/- in an on/off setting, you could look at something like +/- differential and divide that by the number of possessions per game to see how impactful players are on a per possession basis. You could also look at something like +/- differential divided by the total amount of points scored in the game to account for the change in scoring pace. With the methodology used in this video, being +15 in a game that ends 80-81 is the same as being +15 in a game that ends 130-131. Both are obviously good games, but I would argue being +15 in the game that's 80-81 is far more impressive assuming both players play the same number of minutes. It's way more work and I understand why you wouldn't do it for sure, but this is why using stats to compare across eras in basketball is fundamentally flawed.
@@bobbyd1632 It just shows how bad statistics are in basketball imo. The sport is lightyears behind basically every other sport statistically. The normalized stats in baseball (the gold standard for sports stats if we're being real) add so much more perspective and that's why the historical comparisons hold so much more water. Stuff like spin rate from pitchers affects batting averages to an insane degree...as that's gone up, getting hits has gone down so you end up with lower batting averages compared to a lot of historical figures, but compared to peers, there's still incredible hitters today. Then you get to basketball and it's just people using TS% across eras like it's vaguely the same game with how much defenses have been hampered. The amount of times I've seen guys like Kobe get shit on for TS% (career 55%) is insane. Obviously that's poor compared to today's numbers, where league average is 58.1%, but over the years Kobe played, league average was 53.2% so he was actually ABOVE league-average efficiency over his career. Then I see videos like this where it's just straight up +/- with nothing done to account for the pace changes and if you're a stats nerd it's just very clearly a flawed way of thinking about it. A million confounding variables just being ignored entirely for the sake of ease.
@@SARCASMlC to me it reveals two dimensional thinkers (aka Bron fans, kidding, not really kidding) to three dimensional thinkers (not MJ fans by default btw, they can be just as bad as Bron fans) All stats are objective but they also need context to be accurate. 23ppg in 2002 for example is the same team percentage ppg as 28ppg in 2023
@@SARCASMlC This video didn't compare +/- across eras or do anything else that you accused it of doing. It examined +/- of THE SAME PLAYERS over a relatively short period of time. I think you just heard "plus-minus" and then turned off your ears.
@@MrMagnaniman he literally uses +/- when players were on/off the court to compare Jordan to modern NBA players in the video lmao. If you're using on/off splits and putting MJ on the same graph as a LeBron, you're using +/- across eras...you're using it marginally better than most people, but you're still doing it. On/off splits are literally just +/- for the team when a guy is or is not on the floor. Modern players will always have higher on/off splits than 90's players because the both the pace and scoring percentage is way higher in modern basketball. Not only is it easier to score in the modern NBA, they're getting more possessions per game to do it. It's really simple math....Jordan gets 50 possessions on and 20 possessions off per game (it's probably less than this to be completely honest)...Steph gets 75 possessions on and 30 possessions off...his on/off splits will be higher because he very clearly is an incredible player. If you want to actually compare these players in a more objective way, you would do what he did, but divide the on/off by the number of possessions to see who was more impactful on a per-possession basis. You normalize the stat...even then it's hard to normalize for how much easier it is to score for modern players, but it'd be closer.
I love your videos! Most ESPN analyst have nothing on you! You literally have that “THINKING BASKETBALL” mind. Thank you for your amazingly informative videos.
Excellent!! I'd love to see a breakdown of Ben simmons last playoff series vs Hawks....he had a mental breakdown at the foul line and in being agressive in 4th quarter.......but intriguingly, he was never a negative plus-minus in any of their losses
It's difficult to use statistics to prove how good MJ was, but this video does a really good job at showing his dominance in every phase and across multiple situations. It retrospect, despite having been a Knicks fan, we were robbed of what likely could've been 2 of the best years of Jordan's career with his retirement, right at the crossover between speed and strength.
Scottie didn't play as well offensively in 2 of the last 3 rings so Jordan had to carry the team. Jordan scored 35% of his teams points in his last Bulls championship playoff run. That's like average 40pts in today's game.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson The crescendo being the Finale in Game 6. Still to this day the highest percentage total of points for a Finals closeout game. MJ's 45 was about half the Bulls points. And with all the adversity mounting in those final 48min he still pulled it out and secured the victory/title. Which is why many believe it to be the single great at game anyone's ever played. Not cuz of the overall tally, but because the mix of skill and will that it took to do it. 🐐
@@WhelmedButReady I watched that game live on TV. That was a tremendous ending to his career (he never played again). It captures everything about Jordan's career -- best clutch player ever, best scorer ever (45 out 87), and has a steal in final 30 seconds that lead to the clutch shot. The Bulls didnt have another very good option to create scoring...Pippen was hurt and therest except Kukoc are role players who play D or spot up jumpers. Kukoc was the only other player to score over 8pts with his 15pts in 42min playing heavy minutes because Pippen played just 25min and injured. if you haven't seen the game, Pippen tried his best play. He was moving slow and awkward but eventually they shut him down to his back problems.
The Bulls were ok in 94-95 97 and 98 without mj but with him they were actual threats for a title...that's the difference...same thing in 88-89 and 90...let's put it that way...
I watched the three greatest players play Jordan, Kobe and Lebron. Jordan is just different! When everyone watched him they knew they would never see a better player ever! MJ best all time always will be.
Tremendous! MJ's bag is right up there with some of the best in the history of the game. I'll especially never get tired of watching him work in the post and the way he adjusted mid-shot once he turned to shoot his turnaround J.
Too bad that didn't last long I mean look at post MJ. Pretty much Bulls are stuck to never ever again being no.1 or even get to the finals after MJ retired.
@@Ghost-hj5jy Their entire identity during the late 2000s and early 2010s was built on overachieving by playing harder than everyone else. Fortunes changed, maybe, but the mindset was similar for a long time.
Wow! Great video and an amazing service to the community. Curious why you went for per48min, as opposed to per100poss? I guess with the former you can speed through games until the next Jordan substitution, with the latter you might have to count every single possession?
Whether MJ was the greatest ever, I don't know. He's certainly got as good an argument as anyone, but there have been a lot of greats. What can't be doubted is that he was the most stylish, most graceful player ever. He's poetry in motion.
This is a great video and it does shine a light on how great jordan was, consistently. How he improved his team yearly. I really do wish you would have done his whole career, forget the amount of games in early years. They didn't win much in those first 3 years, but you would see EVEN HIGHER numbers for the plus minus. You would also be able to compare the Celtics and bucks to the bulls and other teams the bulls played. This would show just how bad they were and quality of their opponents. You would have also mentioned the plus minus of pippen as a rookie and sophomore as well as grants. You would have done theirs for their whole careers. Because you're using a stat that decides the quality of players and the impacts on/of teammates. The fact should be made clear that it wasn't a bunch of superstars around jordan, they were role players. The fact is, they wouldn't have been as good, especially early in their careers, especially compared to jordan, it would be absolutely clear that he developed them. They had to practice with him and he kept scottie after practice a lot early in his career. THATS the impact on players you SHOULD have measured. Make a part 2 with all the data you took, I assume you did new box scores for every game, not just jordan. So you should be able to apply this to anyone on that team, if you did the job properly. Also the gravity jordan had on a defense CREATED those easy shots when he was ON the floor, it wasn't like THEY were taking the most difficult of shots, HE WAS, EVERY GAME.
Great point. I have been saying this all the time. If he did his job as the leader of the basketball team, their performance should have improved over the years. He played a major part in the team’s development in the late 80’s to create the monster squad in the early 90s. They knew how to win, so when he left, they were prepared. This is not like some other players were when they leave a team, the team sucks. Where is the true development that should have happened due to the leader’s greatness? It’s not making the game easy for your teammates, rather elevating their game so that it is easier for the leader.
Man I watched 90% of those playoff games I bet ya... it was a stacked deck and Phil Jackson made a huge difference...But Jordan was the biggest difference trust me! Those mid 80s playoff games the were barely able to get in and never woulda came close w out MJ
What would be interesting to see is what the Bulls would look like with no Jordan in the last 6 mins of a game vs having Jordan. Because he was the Bulls' closer. He took over so many games in the 4th quarter. Games the Bulls definitely lose if Mike wasn't on the floor.
@@depannist Yea very true. Toni did hit quite a few buzzer beaters. I meant a player imposing their will on the game and instilling fear in the opponent. Nobody was scared of Toni Kukoc.The BJ quote sums it up: "Jordan didn't even really play basketball anymore. He just figured out how to win the game. He knew how to steer momentum. He know how to get guys going. Not only was he that good on the offensive end, he was that good on the defensive end. He was just playing a different game than the rest of us. He let us play but he was there to win the game." That in my opinion sums up Jordan from 91 on. Only Kobe also did this and did it consistently. Meaning both Mike and Kobe could do it every game. Curry's game 4 of last years Finals was like that. He took that game over. Steph does it sometimes but he's about the only one in today's game that can. Id throw KD in there but he's hurt too much and misses too many games.
Great video! One thing to consider when referencing this stat you have to consider the era and rules. After 2000s the numbers will be higher because the NBA changed how defense would be played. +/- has its place, but the amounts of shots has to factor in based on less defense. So you have to extrapolate Jordan's +/- based on these changes for a clearer picture when comparing him to Robinson/Curry/Shaq/LeBron.
Mj's team not being trash without him is not a bad thing, he was the leader of the team and always pushed them in practice and helped them improve their game and become mentally tough. His teammates making progress in their game while playing with Jordan is a sign of his greatness as well. Also that has something to do with the team's offenseive system, that wasn't built for him. Like LeBron's teams that stop functioning and look so lost when he sits down because he is their system, he runs every play and makes every decision, while others just do their simple tasks of stretching the floor for him, waiting to get the pass to shoot the 3 and cutting, but without him they don't know what to do. MJ did his damage by being a part of the system, not the system itself, that's why his bulls were able to hold their own and play without him as well.
This is the problem with seeing everything through statistics: in this case the plus/minus. The Plus/Minus cannot measure leadership, driving teammates in practice to be more accountable, teamwork on the floor, offensive system, coaching decisions, etc. It REWARDS the LeBron system where LeBron controls everything on the court -- and didn't win or dominate as much. MJ had a similar system in the 80's. Had he chosen to he would have blown up every offensive record not held by Wilt but he wouldn't have become the 6 time champion that way. MJ won by stepping back! There is no stat that can measure that dynamic. No stat to measure the impact "The Breakfast Club" had on his teammates.
@@gordonbradbury4130 What he meant was that the triangle offense was not contingent on MJ doing everything. The offense didn't depend on MJ making every decision. He was a major part of the system but he wasn't THE system.
I’d say that if players get better playing with you and continue to play at that level after, you made that player better. If you go off the court and now that player looks garbage, you didn’t make them a better player, you just made them reliant on you.
I'm old school... meaning, the first three and a half quarters are just for the fans. So long as the game is within three or four baskets going into the last half of the fourth quarter, it just comes down to who has enough energy left to score at will. Jordan was that guy. And on the defensive end, he and Pippen could also stop the other team from scoring. During the six championships playoff runs, there were only two times I thought the Bulls might actually lose...once was against the Pat Riley coached Knicks led by Patrick Ewing, when they had to stop Charles Smith in the closing seconds five consecutive times underneath the basket in game five (had NY won that, they might have won)); and once against the Larry Bird coached Indiana Pacers in game 7. Neither were finals games, but I'm pretty sure those two games were for the championship those seasons. I didn't think there was any chance the Bulls wouldnt defeat Utah both times. One finals game, in the last minute against Utah, Jordan scores quickly, strips Karl Malone on the defensive end, then scores the winning basket. That's what I mean by the Bulls could win at will back then.
Plus minus is good but one major flaw is that it hurts players who have a strong bench. I’m sure Duncan’s numbers are effected by the fact he had Manu Ginobli to carry the offense while Duncan sat. And Lebron is helped tremendously by the fact he rarely ever had a a good bench so no one on the bench to carry the team. 3:33 lol. Jordan is a fan of the channel 30 years ago
thats literally the point of it though, its to show who had a good bench and who didnt. confirming bulls were absolutely top dog in 90s and were top tier even without jordan
Hey, I want to say what a great video this was and I appreciate you took the time look at about 100 playoff games. At 17:55 you pretty much sum up why I think Jordan is the clear goat. I was 13 when Jordan won his first championship and it was my first year watching NBA more serious. For the next 6 playoffs of Jordan (not including comeback year), he was just unstoppable. I felt confident Jordan was easily the best player, best clutch player, and would win (except last ring when Jordan was aging). I’ve been watching basketball religiously since 1990 and not even lebron feels like Jordan. Shaq through 3 quarters was the closest I saw in dominating the game but his inability to take over at end of the game is why I still put lebron as the best since Jordan. I can’t make the same judgements about players before 1990 but since 1990, Jordan especially in playoffs has been the clear GOAT. That feeling of knowing with high certainty the bulls will win due to Jordan playing great ball and Just about always coming through in the clutch is something I probably will never feel again.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson its funny you dont count the comeback year cuz he was playing better then than the next season, but jordan made excuses about basktball body and being rusty, casual ass clowns gobbled that shit up
@@youraverage90sguys7 I wouldn't say that's the point though. Some people look at that plus/minus to judge how great a player was. Some use it to see how good a bench is. The truth is that's a flawed but still worthwhile stat. You can take the exact same team and try to measure their stars plus/minus one season and then do the same next season with identical team but with the best bench player out. Season two will produce much better plus/minus difference for the star player but it doesn't mean he was any better than previous season -- his plus/minus numbers benefited from the weaker bench.
Absolutely fantastic and fascinating video, especially for a huge MJ fan. Why did it take me so long to discover you? I will definitely be checking out more.
Michael made the team better by molding them in practice, over the years. He DROVE them to greatness. So, the result is, they are great without him in the game. This is an intangible piece of his greatness.
I think one of the things underrated about Jordan is his quickness. His ability to move and the height of his jump to get his shots off is unprecedented.
He was called black cat & air jordan for a reason. Everyone knew those parts of his game. What goes more under the radar was how great he played off the ball. Mj could torch a team without barely putting the ball down on the floor. His catch n shoot game was a beauty to see. His 1 or 2 dribble pull up game was another beauty. Getting into right scoring angles without the ball as well. His iq without the ball was off the charts
@@saltymonkey8874 agree with everything you said. With all this freedom of movement, lack of defense physicality & spacing, he would destroy the league
underrated? everyone knows that his extremely rare combination of quickness and size is what made him the goat. Kobe had a similar combination. Hakeem was also insanely quick for his size. And even Shaq abnormally quick for a super heavy weight.
It's all in the practice. The most elite captains will always make a team better. If I'm a bench guy and I'm practicing with Jordan and pipen every day I will torch any bench guy and most starters I go against because I already play against the absolute best every single day in practice. It's really that simple.
The only people I can see debating that MJ isn’t the best to date….are probably too young to have watched him play. The 90’s were filled with legends and Jordan stood out amongst them all.
I would love to do this with Steph Curry from 2016 to 2019, I wonder what his creation would look like, I feel like he's definitely had multiple 15+ baskets created games.
Awesome analytics!! One thing you failed to mention in regards to the supporting cast consistently playing better even when Jordan is on the bench. The other teams best defenders are also on the bench taking a breather when Jordan is taken out of the game = less defense = more opportunity to score ☺️
Lil known fact: Sixers statistician Harvey Pollack invented plus/minus stat. I was his intern in 02-03. He was with the nba since day 1 in 1947/49 with Syracuse Nationals. We did plus minus for the whole league and he released it in his book yearly. He would take interns out to dinner if we got a perfect sheet doing a game. He passed in 2015 in his 80s. NBA hall of Famer. RIP
Wow awesome stuff
Wow awesome stuff
Wow awesome stuff
Wow awesome stuff
There are a lot of legends in the NBA who aren't at the forefront and many people don't know about. Thanks for this post.
One thing that amazes me is how MJ escaped these games without ever (if rarely) twisting an ankle. All that shooting in the key and close to opponents jumping out to contest a shot. I know he taped his ankles every game, but still. So many feet to possibly step on.
Other than the injury his 2nd season, he was a consistent 78gm+ a year. Surprising given how he played
Its gotta be the shoes 😁
Probably how shoes were designed in the 90s.
There was no such thing as a twisted ankle before this snowflake era. Guys played through it.
Jordan sprained his ankle in Game 5 of the 1992 Finals, Game 3 of the 1993 First Round, and Game 3 of the 1996 ECF. Stayed in the game each time and never missed any playoff games afterwards. His trainer Tim Grover had MJ do specific exercises to strengthen his ankles (and wrists) as preventative maintenance to better withstand injuries.
I watched Jordan and to this day, I haven't seen a more consistently dominant player than MJ in the playoffs. It was ridiculous to watch someone play 80+ games a season and still play every game in the playoffs with an even greater intensity than he did in the regular season - each and every year. As he aged, I watched teams creep even closer to the Bulls where it looked like someone would overtake the Bulls, and although the Magic beat the Bulls in 1995, it didn't feel as convincing as Jordan only played the last 17 games that season. Despite that, I was surprised at how good they looked in the playoffs - especially against the Magic since the Bulls were struggling during the season.
I'm just glad I was able to witness MJ. Although I was also blessed to also see a rendition of His Airness in Kobe, who's also my favorite player, there was just something completely different about MJ.
At 17:55 you pretty much sum up why I think Jordan is the clear goat. I was 13 when Jordan won his first championship and it was my first year watching NBA more serious. For the next 6 playoffs of Jordan (not including comeback year), he was just unstoppable. I felt confident Jordan was easily the best player, best clutch player, and would win (except last ring when Jordan was aging). I’ve been watching basketball religiously since 1990 and not even lebron feels like Jordan. Shaq through 3 quarters was the closest I saw in dominating the game but his inability to take over at end of the game is why I still put lebron as the best since Jordan.
I can’t make the same judgements about players before 1990 but since 1990, Jordan especially in playoffs has been the clear GOAT. That feeling of knowing with high certainty the bulls will win due to Jordan playing great ball and Just about always coming through in the clutch is something I probably will never feel again.
luka may be the next dominant playoff performer
You are a true OG. Respect!
@@beef2503 he's puting up stats on a losing team though. I want to see if he can do that on a winning team.
@@beef2503 Luka is playing in an era with Giannis so i don't see it.
the man was and still is to this date the most amazing player ever who could do whatever he wanted on the floor and get everyone involved to win.
True
amen, the self-proclaimed King or GOAT doesn't even come close in terms of impact, presence, grace, showmanship, list goes on . . . .
Passing, rebounding, rim protection, finishing,
There will never be anyone like him. It doesn't matter how many rule changes they do, to make it easier to score.
@@baroklim9511LeBum came too late to ever have even close to the impact Jordan had.
Jordan was a way better passer/ playmaker than I thought and gets credit for. You showed many amazing passes he made that I never seen or heard people talk about
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Mj average almost 11 apg in 1991 finals.
@@ThePadai exactly, whole scoring 30+ ppg too. Also he did avg 11.4 assists, not almost.
Because people want to discredit that part of his game and only look at his scoring and sometimes his defense. He had 7 straight triple doubles when he played point guard for just 20+ games and that's something Magic nor LeBron ever did and both of them played the point position their whole career whether it was point guard or point forward. He also averaged 11 assists in the '91 Finals and was averaging more than Magic until the very last game when Magic had 20 to his 10.
@@jtremaine23 this is part of why I cringe when ppl say anyone else is a more "all around" player.
Every video this channel has made is an absolute statistical and analytical masterclass, I enjoy every single one this channel uploads. Whether it be a recap of a game, a conversation of who was the best at their best, a regular analysis, every single video is entertaining, informative, and just down right amazing.
say that again for those in the back.
there are 3 things guaranteed in life. death, taxes, and this basketball youtube channel's excellence
Could not have said it better myself, well done my friend
9ാാ9ം'
It's only a masterclass for people with a limited understanding of statistical analysis and its problems. Not trying to be insulting, but this is pop statistics, nothing particularly substantive here.
The thing is, Doug Collins' tactics were too reliant on MJ to carry the Bulls on his back, while Phil Jackson's triangle offense gave room for other players to grow.
No..that credit belongs to Tex Winter..its was the same staff when Phil took over the team..Phil backstabbed Doug Collins that's how he got the job cause he got kool with Jerry..the GM
Scottie bro all Scottie
@@marcbarnes5913 Scottie was #2 but grant and later rodman we're the key #3 guy. All the bulls titles had a big 3 imo.
I think more than anything, it made everyone else feel like an important part of the team. And it made every player interchangeable.
MJ finally realized he could still get the shots he wanted, he just had to adjust to the offense and learn to attack from those sets. It paid off big time in his mid-30s because he took advantage of the post clear outs and developed into the best post-up guard ever. One of the best post-up players ever, actually.
But all those other guys on the court had jobs and motions to make, they were a part of the team. That helps chemistry all around, especially on defense. A lot of people don’t understand how MJs acceptance of the Triangle really elevated the Bulls and made them what they became.
@@MistaTofMaine you must be young. In no universe was Grant considered part of a “big 3”. A very solid role player.
That Quote by Jordan about him not wanting to excel as a 3p shooter and why, SHOULD be talked about more instead of this ridiculous notion that he couldn't shoot threes.
And it's still a relevant issue for 80% of players today.
I mean - who on earth wants to see Dwight Howard attempt a 3... ever lol
He couldn't shoot 3s clearly. That was just an excuse that he gave.
@@sportstalkonly1442 Who has the highest ppg average in nba history?
@@NothingElseMattersJM what tf does that have to do with whether he could shoot 3s or not?
@@sportstalkonly1442 37% 3pt in the Finals 🤫
I loved Jordan's quote at 3:39. Translation: Basically, I'm just too good at everything else to waste my time out there waiting for someone to throw me the rock.
The other thing people tend to not realize is when MJ played at North Carolina, college didn’t even have a 3 point line, and when he got to the NBA the 3 point line was only in it’s 6th year in the league. Unlike today, kids didn’t grow up practicing shooting three’s back then. So for him to have 3 point percentages slightly lower than Lebron who grew up practicing it just goes to show how good of a shooter he was.
@@Kashed Jordan is around below-average or decent in 3PTers (imo). Jordan when consistently attempting over a 3 a game in the regular season (89-93) has a % of 33.4% (not counting last 3-peat because 3-PT line was shortened) on 1.9 attempts. And in the postseason 35.7% on 2.5 attempts.
@@Kashed If he was in todays league, he would probably be a very respectable shooter.
@@Kashed LeBron didn’t grow up practicing 3’s as a primary source of scoring. He actually developed that WAY late in his career which is extremely impressive. The 3pt era came well into the 2010’s
@@TheRealAbraxas Bwahahahaha
Although his 93 Finals against my Suns look more impressive you'll never convince me it was better than his 91 Finals. Game 1 he looked a bit nervous and didn't play great but from game 2 on he was just amazing, scoring, passing, rebounding, defense athleticism, intelligence, he just put it all together. He just seemed to be in complete control of the entire series after game 1 and just put 4 complete games together to completely suck any chance the Lakers thought they had at winning. He was incredible in other Finals as well but for me the first one was peak Jordan.
Agree!
@@ThinkingBasketball I would say that first championship is his transition from the first stage of his career to the 2nd stage of his career. His 3rd stage would be 2nd 3peat.
Stage 1 (pre-championship into first championship): Most athletic player ever. Unstoppable drive to the hoop and short jumper from 5-10ft.
Stage 2 (first 3peat, certainly last 2 rings): Looses half a step but becomes arguably the best mid range shot creator / mid range shooter of all time. He is still the best player at taking it to the the hoop and scoring in the paint but just slightly behind stage 1.
Stage 3 (2nd 3peat): Looses a full step but becomes arguably the best post playing guard of all time and maintains the best mid range shot creator / mid range shooter in the league. His ability to get the hoop diminishes by the end.
That first championship he is still nearly at peak physical form while becoming the best mid range player ever.
@sk sure he did add some muscle, but it was also natural back then to loose little step by late 20s. They have much better sports medicine and training today to keep players on peak physical level for longer. Just look at Curry, Durant and lebron still all among top 7 players of the league despite being 37, 34, and 33...with Durant having some serious injury at 31.
yep,at that stage you could maybe quibble that his craftiness and game intelligence wasnt at absolute peak but it would have been pretty close,which is plenty good enough..but good lord,his athleticism and quickness at that point was still alien like and more than made up for anything you could say was slightly lacking and his skills and efficiency were extraordinary.
obviously though,as with many greats,the great thing about jordan was his incredible baseline performance of consistent excellence during all his playoff runs except a wee bit of slippage in his final bulls season.so it is always nitpicking a bit,but yeah 91 jordan would be my favourite.
and i realise that this video is pointing out the improvement of the supporting cast over time but that 91 squad minus jordan looks VERY ordinary on paper,which elevates jordans effort in breaking through for the title....yes we know about pippens greatness but when you dig into the roster and see names like grant,paxson,armstrong,cartwright,king,levingston these are not shining lights of basketball history and achieved very little of note outside of being known as part of that bulls team.in fact,of the few teams that have 3-peated,or even repeated,in the history of the game that must surely be the weakest supporting cast
Game 1, 1991 finals, Jorfnas bulls teammates, were even more nervous, than Jordan himself was, & it showed in their play.
Brilliant video, MJ is just ridiculous af
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And his teammates too
@@edisjd Exactly. MJ played was most effective when he played with a supporting cast that was filled with future hall of famers and coaches.
@@DaggerSecurity lol what???
Found this channel on a whim and it is leaps and bounds ahead of similar channels and I've only seen 5 mintues in. Seeing MJ broken down like this makes you realize just how scary good he was even more so.
It's staggering the impact the illegal defense rules had. Those doubles are so ineffective because the defense can't zone up to handle the lack of numbers.
The illegal defense still exists today in the form of the illegal defensive 3.
@@Martin-tr4sj yes, 3 in the key is a thing, but the impact of zone being illegal is much more impactful.
@Rorschach 0007 I’m not saying there aren’t differences but in any given season everyone is playing under the same ruleset. KG and Duncan were in the 90’s playing in all star games with MJ
@Rorschach 0007 Scoring efficiency did not decline in the 2001-02 season if that’s what you’re referring to.
@@anthonynorman7545 So you’re saying that if MJ played today, he could play less restrictive zone defenses ? You see how every balances out ?. Just like lebron can get away with more handchecking and back downs in the 90’s
I think this shows that Jordan's work ethic and mentality helped give his teammates lasting improvements that stayed even if he left, as well as Scottie growing into his peak
16:20 That awesome plus-minus blueprint tailored by an older Jordan in his 2nd three-peat - he definitely lost athleticism but compensated some with his improved strength and guile and remained an all time level player
In his last four Bulls' seasons, he averaged 30 just once, and never shot 50%. As Charles Barkley once said, in Jordan's second time with the Bulls, he was still the best player in the league, but not as good as he had been (which Barkley said was the best ever).
@@phillipschuman4307 Charles Barkley is a certified idiot. He literally lost his only chance at winning a title because of his own stupidity. Jordan was still by far the best player in the league. His playing style simply changed from an aggressive driver of the ball, to a look first guard where if he didn't have a clear shot he was more likely to kick the ball out to elite perimeter shooters like Pippen, Kukoc and Kerr.
That said, because of his trade mark fade away unless Jordan was smothered his jump shot was basically unblockable and where contact defense was still a thing, he became craftier because you can read the game with his classic "you reach I teach" eyes in the back of his head from people's touch.
@@phillipschuman4307 The late 90s have lower pace and less offensive efficiency league-wide. Second three-peat Jordan might not be as good as a player as the younger Jordan, but using points per game and raw percentages surely isn’t the way to go about the argument.
@@phillipschuman4307 That's a bit misleading because the pace was much slower during his 2nd threepeat. In fact, per 100 possessions he scored more in each of those season than he did in 1991-92 or 88-89 or his rookie year. First threepeat Jordan was clearly better than 2nd threepeat but the points per game is highly misleading. What you do see in the per 100 possions is that his scoring was similar to his first threepeat but his assist dropped from about 7.5 to 5.5 and of course his defensive stats like steals and blocks also dropped.
Also the league got 2 expansion teams to dilute the talent and the three-point line was shortened, which would obviously be a godsend for any perimeter player with declining athleticism.
Nice work. When you slow down some of these plays you really see the magic of Michael as a passer. His hang time and generally amazing physical skills allow him so many options for deception and setting up his teammates. It’s really unreal. Between that and his spin ability to twist to the basket or hit fadeaways while creating great working space from tight quarters I’m quite confident he’s the only player to be able to pull this off so effectively in the history of the game. Another reason to consider him perhaps the greatest ever. I’m happy putting him, Kareem and Russell at the top.
I just want you to know, Ben, that I can't understate my love for your content. Your last podcast on athleticism was so amazing. I honestly was still wanting more after almost 2 hours of pure genius. Great work!
I also have been watching ever since the pascal siakam video
@@CoryWillis Appreciate that a ton. Really awesome to hear from people who have been watching since Pascal.
Link the Podcast episode.
@@ThinkingBasketball Where is the video on athleticism?
@Critical Damage I can taste the salt from here, bro. Don't be hating; it causes wrinkles.
MJ didn’t learn how to be unselfish under Jackson, he just had a coach who came up with a system beyond “give Michael the ball and get out of the damn way.” That was Doug collins through and through.
Yeah MJ always had the ability to be unselfish, like when he played PG under Doug and was racking up assists like crazy.
Well said. MJ had the college experience of playing with other competent players, but when he got to the crack circus in Chicago, he developed a “selfish” attitude because he pretty much had to. Getting Phil Jackson to help him understand to utilize actual nba talent once the Bulls drafted and traded for better players was critical. Imagining what the beginning of his career would look like if he was drafted by a team like the Bucks, Nuggets, or other good teams at the time is an interesting thought, I doubt he’d have the same “selfish” label early on.
That’s false. MJ had to spend a long time thinking about whether he wanted his usage to go down or not after Phil told him that’s what they’re gonna do.
yes, but also Pippen and Grant matured into good players. A combo of both Phil Jackson reshaping the offense and players maturing. I would say MJ had already been unselfish at least one season before Jackson became head coach.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson he said that but the reality is that Michael was always coachable. He listened to dean smith, collins and Jackson regardless of how much he complained to himself about it.
3:33 Wow, Jordan truly was ahead of his time.
Possible he was a time traveler
@@ThinkingBasketball "My mom said I had to learn to live with my mistakes, and I took that personally."
@@samuelstensgaard4828 Ever time Jordan said that, he would then go and beat that opponent. does That mean he beat his mom?
one thing you didn't mention, but also is something you can't quantify is what his team mates said about how MJ pushed them in practices. All his teams talk about how much better they became as players because of how hard MJ was in practice.
I'm more of a football (soccer) spectator and Leo Messi's teammates say the same about training with them.
And if you go back a few years, Ronaldinho's teammates say the same, and even Gerard Piqué learned a lot when he shared squad with Cristiano Ronaldo back in Manchester United.
That's absolutely the reason why his teammates became better. Imagine a star player teammate heckling you each and every practice or actual game for you to work harder. It'll either break you or mold you into a better player. It's like going on an elite special forces course where men are separated from boys.
This is also a testament to how great Phil Jackson was as a coach
that's a guy MJ fanboys forget about... of course leaving Phil Jackson out of a conversation regarding MJ is just criminal
Phil only coached teams on the up. never a rebuilding team. He got lucky
@@theoneweekwonder He was savvy
@@JulioLeonFandinho Phil Jackson was great but he can only do so much. Players make coaches. Not the other way around…. Give Steve kerr a g league team you think he’s gonna make them a contender. No
They also got a whole different supporting cast.
The most impressive and unimpressive part of Jordan’s game was his ability to take 1-2 dribbles to get his shot off. I say unimpressive because modern day fans are used to players taking 5-8 dribbles btw their legs before they shoot. They don’t appreciate his efficiency
facts! he still has the quickest first step anyone has ever seen. this goes overlooked often when analyzing his offense. he could literally blow by anyone with that 1st step..
@@edupbeat YES! He didn’t need to do a bunch of faints and crossovers. MJ would take one step and he was already past his defender.
The more dribbles the more you kill the clock and the more chances you give to your opponent
His back to the basket game and ability to turn around and make plays instantly is so undervalued...kobe learned a lot from him and it's something lebron can learn from still...don't hold onto the ball too long for stats...mj didn't care if he got the assist
For sure. You couldn't have said it any better. MJ was efficient.
Jordan's main contribution to his teammates was how demanding he was in practice, forcing them to practice at a high level and his high expectations for focus and intensity during actual games. He didn't have to work at getting them involved in a game, the were already there from the beginning.
💯💯💯 just need to look at all them Knicks series he taught them toughness and they used it to get the Larry 6 times
Yes this is the actual readson why bulls became a very good contender on and off the court. His background influence, mind setting to all his individual team mates. That is very reason even though he retired the bulls have maintained high efficiency on the court.
His maniacal drive was almost certainly an advantage to team building in the short term, but it also burned him out twice and the Bulls once. Why on earth would the Bulls decide to stop trying to compete in 1999 otherwise?
@@Daliman13 Answer: Jerry Krause
@@Daliman13that team was broke up they didn’t quit
Yeah you can see it on film as well as the stats 91,92&96 were his best Championship seasons. Athletically his peak was undoubtedly 86-89 his speed, agility & explosiveness were otherworldly 👽
Even for your standards this is pretty nuts, I hope we get more comprehensive data for the 90s and earlier with all the games the NBA has locked away. It would be awesome if we could get some hard impact metrics for MJ but this is a great start.
yes. I appreciate how he referenced someone who took the time to measure Jordan's shot in 1991 season. That's the only way it going to be done now, someone has to literally go through all the games . Him shooting 51% from mid range means he was a better shooter than OKC Kevin Durant from midrange. KD saw 10ft to 3pt line fg% sky rocket in past 5 years as the league shooting improved due to more spacing creating from 3pt shots.
Jordan's 91/92 shot data also seems inline with the 96/97 season when the NBA first measured shot data. In 96/97 he shot .492 from 10-16 and .521 from 16-3p for 50.6% from 10-3p which were 59% of his shots and he scored 30ppg. That's extreme high volume 10-3p and very high fg%.
In 96/97, he took nearly 60% of this shots rom 10-3p vs 1991-92 he took about 40% of his shots from 10-3p.
The 2nd season of MJ first retirement the bulls was 34-31 and finished 47-35 after his return. People always bring up the first year where they almost make the finals but never bring up the 2nd year where they almost missed the playoffs without Jordan.
All things considered, bulls lost in the 2nd round. Huge difference between being knocked out in 2nd round, and winning a ship. All because you lost one player.
@@KyraStitch could of made the finals...the knicks went 7 with them and took the rockets to 7 and many close games...
In 93 they added kukoc meyers kerr longley and wennington plus still had bj pippen grant scott cartwright king purdue...they did lose tucker doe as well and from the 90-92 teams cliff and hodges....
@@razkable They still got bounced in the 2nd round. The '08 Hawks won 37 games and took the Celtics to 7. They were not legitimate title contenders and neither were the Bulls.
One thing, we could mention in addition is, that very often they rested many of the starting 5 at the end of easy wins. So the weaker numbers "off Jordan" include big time-spans, when several better Bulls were off the court.
But as one of those glad, who could watch that games on a regular basis, there is anyway no piece of doubt, that he was the difference maker. But you have to have a strong team, that hold you near enough, so there is that difference you can make at the end. 🙂
Great video. Thx for all that effort.
Ive been watching Jordan for 25 years and you've put in highlights and angles Ive never seen in my life...love the content
RIP Bill Russell: LEGEND in the NBA as well as a truely awesome gentleman warrior, a man who fought for actual equality. A man who opposed real injustice. An amazing 11 time champion player, and coach. The ultimate GREATEST OF ALL TIME! God bless his family in suffering their loss, a loss felt by all who knew the history of Bill Russell. #6LOVE ☘️💚😢
W
When MJ was proclaimed the GOAT in 1990/1991, he was seen as taking the GOAT from Bill Russel. That's how great and influential Bill Russel was .
I respect your opinion. Bill Russell is considered one of the greats of all time, you cant compare his 11 rings to 80's to present, Celtics fought 10 teams on a regular season, it will be a different thing if they have 30 teams competing for the title. If Wilt and Rusell competed with Shaq,David,Hakeem,Ewing and the rest of the centers at least 7'0 in height or more, it will be a great thing to watch but they will not be as dominator as they are. Just my opinion
@@onestopgenuis9611 quick calculation, the odds of winning in the 90’s was 2.5x more difficult than winning in the 60’s. I would say 6 straight or 6 of 8 depending he you look at it is more difficult than Bull Russel 11 total. Or at least very close to being equal.
@@onestopgenuis9611 stupid argument, 90s is the most diluted era ever.
One of the greatest summaries i have seen about MJ.Not everybody is talking about the things you just put together in this video.Great work with a lot of things I even as I die hard MJ fan didn’t realize.👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
You don't need numbers to see that Jordan was and still is best player ever. Just watch him play. Truly poetry in motion.
exactly
well, second best
And when you do check the numbers per game, he really did have the greatest impact on his team more than any player ever did before
Dont be jealous
Thank you !! It’s no different from going to your local park & analyzing the competition. The eye test & feel you get watching someone play will always be the most important assessment
It's noteworthy when evaluating plus-minus to consider how much of an impact the player - in this case, MJ - made to the team's playing ability behind the scenes, like in training. I'm sure just having MJ on your team would improve your own standards and make you rev the tank just a but more while on the court.
Good point!
This right here is facts.....Nobody was harder on teammates....His nickname for Bill Cartwright was Bill can't get right.....He told Horace Grant after a game he shouldn't be allowed to eat the post game meal because he got 0 rebounds....Hell he punched Steve Kerr in the face just to see how he'd react, if he fought back he knew he had someone he could count on in crunch time.....This method did not work for Kwame Brown but it did seem to work for Chicago....Toni Kukoc was another one that was ridden hard by Pippen and Jordan they didn't respect foreign players. The first game they played in the Olympics in 1992 against Croatia with Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc.....Pippen and Jordan split time guarding Kukoc because it was rumored Jerry Krause was trying to sign him. Kukoc struggled the 1st meeting but the 2nd one in the gold medal game he dropped 20 on Pippen and Jordan, Petrovic was lights out shooting and it kept the game reasonably close.....
Thinking Basketball has a video on the flaws of plus minus and proposes adjusted plus minus which factors in the talent or the players on the court when they star is playing and where the star isn’t playing, for both teams. The bulls often had Pippen leading the offense when Jordan sat so they staggered their offense so one of those two was alway on the court. This would reduce Jordan plus minus because they spread their offensive lineup so that they don’t drop significantly when Jordan sits
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson The bulls rotation wasn't any different than any other team's. Every team staggers the rotation of their best players. Note Brown and Tatum, Paul and Booker etc.
This more shows the greatness of coach Phil Jackson in creating a system that drew out the best of the role players. It also shows Michael greatness in fitting into that system and making his teammates better even when off the court.
“Making his teammates better even when off the court.” 😂😂😂I get it man MJ is great but let’s not schlob his nob too raw now
Adrien Cook that is the falicy that espn etc keep pushing. It was not Phil’s system that Jordan adopted it was Tex Winters Triangle Offence system that Phil asked MJ to buy into. If MJ did a Lebron and insisted he remain the facilitator MJ would not be the goat. His teams would have fallen apart with him off court just as Lebrons teams have historically when he is on the bench and when he leaves the team.
You guys are missing that MJ had to accept that new sustem and master it. That is not Phil Jackson’s doing. That’s the players buying into the system and also becoming proficient in it. Players make coaches. Lebron fans and the media give Phil Jackson way too much credit.
Phil had no name as a coach when he came to Chicago. He was not a hall of fam anything before MJ and later Kobe and Shaq. Look how he could do nothing with the Knicks who did not have any players the caliber or high b-ball IQ like MJ or Kobe. He could do nothing. That is a true sign of great coaching like a Pat Riley etc have proven. Phil is good coach no doubt but he didn’t make MJ it’s the other way around. MJ, Shaq and Kobe skill made Phil the hall of famed he is.
Tex winter's created the offense not Phil, Phil learned from tex winters
ruclips.net/video/9_G2iSwZVi8/видео.html🤣🤣
@@snakebitten6967 you're missing the fact that it was Phil's coaching ability and system that got MJ to buy in. LeBron never had a coach with Phil's ability. Look at MJ and Kobe they both never won without him. LeBron made Spo and Spo hasn't won without LeBron. That's the different levels of greatness.
I'm so glad I stumbled across this RUclips channel years ago and have watched and listened to your stuff ever since. The best analysis with the right mix of stats and videos to explain and discuss basketball. I also read your book which really challenged the way I watch and think about basketball. Thanken you sir.
17:44 remains one of my favorite plays in the Bulls title runs. I downloaded a short video clip of that in 1997 off AOL and rewatched it dozens of times.
Man! He drew double and triple coverage all the time. His passing options where limitless.
Imagine now a days him passing to actual shooters when doubled as he attacks and not being bogged down near the paint by 2 bigs on the court at a time smdh....the bulls now would just play rodman or grant at center instead of these wasted purdue king scott cartwright wennington a hair of salley and edwards in 96 even extra longley minutes smdh....the bulls would be better off going small with bj and paxon and harper kerr toni during these runs
Lies lol
@@razkable none of that matters, the bulls was the best super team ever. better than any team ever.
That's because you weren't allowed to hedge on help defense back then, you had to commit. So, he always had passing options when he was doubled.
@@razkableNow, there are players who could do a single coverage on mj. Fight me.
David Robinson underrated. His teams averaged 22 PPG less with him off the court in the playoffs. I know this about MJ but that really stood out to me.
I think there are some tricky things going on with David Robinson.He lead the league in win shares per 48 min in the 97, 98 and 2000 seasons despite being not the player he was before and Duncan being the best player by far on the team. 35yr old Robninson was 14.4pts 8.reb 2.5blk yet higher ws per 48 than Duncan? My guess is some of the stats are inflated based on the lineups he played with.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson I know that all stats need context still stood out a bit though.
@@Eightohh4tosevenfive7 Yes, it still stands out. It certainly shows he must have still been a force late in his career even if the number is a bit inflated. I can't remember who (maybe this channel) but there is a video looking at Robinson and his impact. He was a defensive machine even late in his career with Duncan and lots of advance stats showed that.
Yeah, I thought it was weird the way this video just brushes him aside because he didn't lead his team in minutes. He averaged over 35 minutes a game in the playoffs in 98-00 so it's no like he was cherry picking easy minutes against scrubs.
@@TapCat it showed the stat isn’t perfect. Those were very clearly Duncan teams but that stat showed the old David Robison was the star so obviously a flawed stat
Very informative. Very interesting and this one of the better video highlighting jordan and the team aspect without degrading like other podcasters do. Fantastic job
Thinking basketball has the greatest on/off numbers ever. Truly the GOAT
Thanks! Your effort is amazing. It showed MJ23 evolving as well from the charge the rim and explosive dunks to passing to open team mates to those midrange quick shots to it's even evolved form of reclined midrange shots. Like wine MJ23 aged better and craftier losing none of his assassin mentality. Peace and goodwill to you man!
93 Jordan tore up the Suns but just imagine 90-91 Jordan who has even more speed. He would have average 3-4 ppg more on the same efficiency
3 stages of Jordan.
1. Pre championship and maybe first championship, Jordan was most athletic player ever and unstoppable drive to the basket.
2. First 3pt, he lost half step but became the best mid-range shooter / mid-range shot creator of all-time while still being the best at taking it to hoop.
3. 2nd 3peat, he lost a full step but he became the best post player of any guard in NBA history and was still the best mid range shooter / mid-range shot creator of all-time. He no longer was the best player at taking it too the hoop but he was still among the best at that until his last Bulls season where it became almost non-existent at times.
@@housesports000 yes, that’s what I was getting at. But he was a touch slower in the 2nd and certainly 3rd ring. He gained wait and was 29 and 30 which is when players start losing a step back then
Funny fact about the 1993 Finals is that Jordan averaged 41 ppg but shot terribly from the line. He left 2 ppg off the table just by missing FTs he normally made.
@@mrmacross True
@pdanderspetea It was the wrist I believe.
Great analysis, thanks! One thing that you could have added was mentioning differences over time in league scoring averages. The value of an extra point in terms of winning was higher when average scoring overall was lower wasn't it? From a quick look at basketball reference, the team league scoring average in the 1997 playoffs for example was 92 against around 100 in the early 90s, 100 in 2016 and 106 in 2017. So comparing raw points +/- undervalues significantly late 90s Jordan (and possibly early 90s Jordan too) compared to late 2010s and 2020s. In my mind this also makes Shaq's numbers even more impressive!
All this not to take anything away from Lebron or Curry who obviously still look incredible on that chart (around minute 14)
Jordan is the one player I could *never* feel bad about the C's losing to. Nobody else. He was otherworldly.
Charles Barkley said it best: "Sports are a gun fight and we lost to the fastest gun."
The thing that these stats don’t really take into account directly is how and why his teammates improved during those years. We all know how hard MJ pushed everyone around him in practices - mentally and physically - and I think that variable returns again back to Michael being the main catalyst for the entire team.
You also have to give Chicago Bulls GM credit for acquiring better players for Phil Jackson to coach up
@@soulofamerica of course and also miami heat,cavs and lakers for Brons team.,lol where every now and then bron demanding for all stars team mates
Mj and pippen were the only bulls on even the 93 title team that were still on the 96 title team...that tells you how important mj was....pippen was great but having both made the bulls what they are
It's been said by damn near everyone that played for the Bulls that practice was harder than the games themselves. Jordan had a huge part in that.
See: The Chicago Bulls Breakfast Club.
This video really put into perspective for me, as someone born well after MJs peak days, how brilliant of a player he was. I knew he was the GOAT but just these added layers of excellence that he consistently brought that don’t get talked about as much as his pure scoring and chips is so interesting. Fantastic video as always, this channel is always an inspiration for me to try create high quality videos of my own
What separates mj from the rest is his defensive impact...a big reason why hakeem duncan both malones rbinson and kareem get underrated as well by most...heck shaq and kobe were amazing defenders as well at times
His fundamentals were unmatched. Ridiculously good, Kobe came close to matching if not matched.
It was so badass seeing Jordan as a video outside of greatest peaks. Thank you so much. I love ur work‼️
always a great day when ben taylor uploads. just cannot wait until that top 10 video drops for 2022! keep up the fantastic work, ben :)
Great content!! As a "old head" who grew up watching MJ, I remember being 6 or 7 yrs old recording games on our beta max n watching them before n after school as well as after Saturday morning cartoons n then go out n try to mimic almost every layup n jumpshot. Then the 90s rolled around and MJ gave the world a whole new culture in commercials, interviews, music, movies n of course sports!! Seeing ppl from other countries wearing Jordan jerseys n shoes blew my mind 🤯 thinking this guy really got the midas touch. To this day I haven't seen an impact like this... Maybe Football (soccer) with guys like Maradona n Renaldo. Then the dreamteam was jus next level. The 3peats, the scoring, the clutch moments, the defense all leading up to those championships!! Great time great era!! Sorry for the rant but seeing some of these clips jus reminded me of how MJ was a movement domestically n worldwide by the time his career was all said n done!! #23 #blackcat #blackjesus #air #hisairness #mj #MichealJordan
Jordan was performing Ballett while everyone else was just stomping around. If you saw him live you know what I mean.
I think the best part of mj is he could hit the three but he chose instead to take tough contested double teamed long mid range twos and post up like a big and attack centers near the rim...he wasn't scarred...now a days he would score easier and get more assists and his defense would be even more crucial...he would be the perfect player in todays nba...even more effective than in his own era if you can believe it
Yes, I did see him live (on TV) starting with the 1982 NCAA title game. In his first few years in the NBA I didn't see him play much, and I thought "Is this guy really that great as people are saying he is". Then I watched him drop 63 on the to-be-champion Celtics, and said to myself "I guess so". As a Pistons fan in the late 80's, he drove me crazy, as I was realizing that Jordan was becoming one of the all time greats, and it got to the point where you just KNEW he was going to hit every clutch shot, or make a critical steal or pass, and that is what he did throughout the 90's (with a few VERY rare exceptions). The man combined other worldly taleny with relentless drive, hard work and compeitiveness to become the greatest ever.
One of things I like about Michael Jordan is how good at basketball he was.
LOL
Most profound analysis of Jordan I have ever seen... legit brought at tear to my eye bro 👏
This is a very impressive video, I love the way you broke down the numbers. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Jordan almost always killed my Knicks, but I always loved watching the game. Jordan spoke a lot of truth about the 3 ball. I tried to watch a basketball game awhile back, and everybody just stood on the three point line waiting for something to happen. I just don't enjoy watching that style of ball. I hope some players get back in touch with actually playing ball. Peace and love y'all 🤟
You pointed out that the bulls got better. But my question is, did he help make them better? That would make him more valuable. I think by hearing his teammates in other interviews he pushed them to be better.
I believe what you say to be true
I believe when your main player is off 1:1 ratio is the goal
I believe MJs personality from what we’ve seen would not be hard to imagine today’s commentary driving him to be the best 3 point shooter
All speculation but you look old enough to get some things just don’t have any measurable metric
Exactly my thoughts here too. It has to be noted vs someone like Lebron, where Jordans 87 Bulls and 95 Bulls are brand new completely different teams, but nearly all of the players were brought to the Bulls and made better because of him and Phil Jackson. Someone like Pippen is likely an average ball player without Jordan.
Yeah, Kukoc brought MJ to his HOF induction to thank MJ for making him a better player. Pippen, too, said the same thing in the Last Dance. I'm sure other teammates have said the same thing. Oh, Scott Burrell, too.
exactly my thought, he MADE them better
it's quite obvious MJ made his teammates better. They wanted to excel and played their best basketball with or without him but after playing with him
You simply are the platinum standard for statiscal NBA content!
As strange as it may sound to say about a player who scored as much as MJ. He surprisingly played a team game. He avg 6.3 rebounds and 5 2 assist for his career. Which is elite for a shooting guard. Phil Jackson brought a system where the Bulls could accomplish winning Championships. MJ made sure his teammates were ready for the wars of the seasons. I've still haven't seen another player quit like MJ.
I wouldn’t call that elite it’s average
@@solomons5669
For SG it's elite in my opinion.
@@solomons5669 Considering the guy was a shooting guard and played under the Triangle Offense, it was understandable.
@@solomons5669 on a time where PGs do most the assists and big men do most of the rebounds, it was elite. You're comparing it to this positionless era which makes your opinion moot.
Peace! It was truly a blessing to watch this man perform since UNC in 1981-82! I absolutely loved Georgetown and MJ sent the dagger 🗡 into their hearts.. MJ is definitely Top #1-3 All-time..
You mean top #1 all time
@@NewsGuyFred ikr
15:14 This is so beautiful. It shows a pure meditative state, being so in tune with the action at hand and realizing how to "be" as necessary, totally formless
I’m wondering: how much does scoring inflation affect plus minus differential? If scores are significantly higher, won’t the variance and therefore differentials tend to be higher as well?
Scoring was very high in the 80’s
@@TheBronzeBomber38 not compared to how it is now
@@topcondones The 60’s had the highest scorers because players were just running up and down the court jacking up low% shots
you're forgetting how illegal defense allowed stars to never get double teamed in the 90s
@@Mates0nDeck There's literally examples of Jordan being double teamed in this video. Double Teams were not illegal during the 90s. Please, go study the rules a bit further and watch more film.
The thing about +/- across eras (comparing Jordan to LeBron/Steph/etc) is how much +/- gets affected by the pace of the game.
Between 1996-1998 the highest PPG team in the NBA (in the playoffs) was 97.7 and between 16-21' playoffs, you've got Golden state putting up 112 PPG.
The more rapid pace of the game favors newer players in +/- since they're getting more possessions to increase their +/-. This is why baseball has normalized stats, where things like batting average are compared to the average batting average of the year they played in to see how players stacked up against their competition instead of directly seeing how they stack up against players who are essentially playing a game with fundamental changes made to it.
Instead of just looking at +/- in an on/off setting, you could look at something like +/- differential and divide that by the number of possessions per game to see how impactful players are on a per possession basis. You could also look at something like +/- differential divided by the total amount of points scored in the game to account for the change in scoring pace.
With the methodology used in this video, being +15 in a game that ends 80-81 is the same as being +15 in a game that ends 130-131. Both are obviously good games, but I would argue being +15 in the game that's 80-81 is far more impressive assuming both players play the same number of minutes.
It's way more work and I understand why you wouldn't do it for sure, but this is why using stats to compare across eras in basketball is fundamentally flawed.
yes everything needs context, well said
@@bobbyd1632 It just shows how bad statistics are in basketball imo. The sport is lightyears behind basically every other sport statistically.
The normalized stats in baseball (the gold standard for sports stats if we're being real) add so much more perspective and that's why the historical comparisons hold so much more water. Stuff like spin rate from pitchers affects batting averages to an insane degree...as that's gone up, getting hits has gone down so you end up with lower batting averages compared to a lot of historical figures, but compared to peers, there's still incredible hitters today.
Then you get to basketball and it's just people using TS% across eras like it's vaguely the same game with how much defenses have been hampered. The amount of times I've seen guys like Kobe get shit on for TS% (career 55%) is insane. Obviously that's poor compared to today's numbers, where league average is 58.1%, but over the years Kobe played, league average was 53.2% so he was actually ABOVE league-average efficiency over his career.
Then I see videos like this where it's just straight up +/- with nothing done to account for the pace changes and if you're a stats nerd it's just very clearly a flawed way of thinking about it. A million confounding variables just being ignored entirely for the sake of ease.
@@SARCASMlC to me it reveals two dimensional thinkers (aka Bron fans, kidding, not really kidding) to three dimensional thinkers (not MJ fans by default btw, they can be just as bad as Bron fans)
All stats are objective but they also need context to be accurate.
23ppg in 2002 for example is the same team percentage ppg as 28ppg in 2023
@@SARCASMlC This video didn't compare +/- across eras or do anything else that you accused it of doing. It examined +/- of THE SAME PLAYERS over a relatively short period of time. I think you just heard "plus-minus" and then turned off your ears.
@@MrMagnaniman he literally uses +/- when players were on/off the court to compare Jordan to modern NBA players in the video lmao. If you're using on/off splits and putting MJ on the same graph as a LeBron, you're using +/- across eras...you're using it marginally better than most people, but you're still doing it.
On/off splits are literally just +/- for the team when a guy is or is not on the floor.
Modern players will always have higher on/off splits than 90's players because the both the pace and scoring percentage is way higher in modern basketball.
Not only is it easier to score in the modern NBA, they're getting more possessions per game to do it.
It's really simple math....Jordan gets 50 possessions on and 20 possessions off per game (it's probably less than this to be completely honest)...Steph gets 75 possessions on and 30 possessions off...his on/off splits will be higher because he very clearly is an incredible player.
If you want to actually compare these players in a more objective way, you would do what he did, but divide the on/off by the number of possessions to see who was more impactful on a per-possession basis. You normalize the stat...even then it's hard to normalize for how much easier it is to score for modern players, but it'd be closer.
"Thinking Basketball every day"
-Michael Jordan 😂
I love your videos! Most ESPN analyst have nothing on you! You literally have that “THINKING BASKETBALL” mind.
Thank you for your amazingly informative videos.
Excellent!! I'd love to see a breakdown of Ben simmons last playoff series vs Hawks....he had a mental breakdown at the foul line and in being agressive in 4th quarter.......but intriguingly, he was never a negative plus-minus in any of their losses
He was good as hell against us but he Strunk in the 4th quarter
Another upload from the GOAT @Thinking Basketball
I’m craving for the annual top 10 players assessment of this season. Looking forward to it.
It's difficult to use statistics to prove how good MJ was, but this video does a really good job at showing his dominance in every phase and across multiple situations. It retrospect, despite having been a Knicks fan, we were robbed of what likely could've been 2 of the best years of Jordan's career with his retirement, right at the crossover between speed and strength.
So in the latter part of his career Jordan was the difference between a very good team and arguably the best team ever.
Scottie didn't play as well offensively in 2 of the last 3 rings so Jordan had to carry the team. Jordan scored 35% of his teams points in his last Bulls championship playoff run. That's like average 40pts in today's game.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson The crescendo being the Finale in Game 6. Still to this day the highest percentage total of points for a Finals closeout game. MJ's 45 was about half the Bulls points.
And with all the adversity mounting in those final 48min he still pulled it out and secured the victory/title. Which is why many believe it to be the single great at game anyone's ever played. Not cuz of the overall tally, but because the mix of skill and will that it took to do it. 🐐
@@WhelmedButReady I watched that game live on TV. That was a tremendous ending to his career (he never played again). It captures everything about Jordan's career -- best clutch player ever, best scorer ever (45 out 87), and has a steal in final 30 seconds that lead to the clutch shot. The Bulls didnt have another very good option to create scoring...Pippen was hurt and therest except Kukoc are role players who play D or spot up jumpers. Kukoc was the only other player to score over 8pts with his 15pts in 42min playing heavy minutes because Pippen played just 25min and injured.
if you haven't seen the game, Pippen tried his best play. He was moving slow and awkward but eventually they shut him down to his back problems.
The Bulls were ok in 94-95 97 and 98 without mj but with him they were actual threats for a title...that's the difference...same thing in 88-89 and 90...let's put it that way...
Fantastic project!!! Good job fellas!
I watched the three greatest players play Jordan, Kobe and Lebron. Jordan is just different! When everyone watched him they knew they would never see a better player ever! MJ best all time always will be.
Tremendous! MJ's bag is right up there with some of the best in the history of the game. I'll especially never get tired of watching him work in the post and the way he adjusted mid-shot once he turned to shoot his turnaround J.
Kobe and Hakeem are the only 2 who was at the level skill wise as Jordan
MJ changed the mindset and the culture in chicago so even when he wasn’t on the court they still played hard
Too bad that didn't last long I mean look at post MJ. Pretty much Bulls are stuck to never ever again being no.1 or even get to the finals after MJ retired.
@@Ghost-hj5jy thanks to that Derrick rose tragedy
@@Ghost-hj5jy Their entire identity during the late 2000s and early 2010s was built on overachieving by playing harder than everyone else. Fortunes changed, maybe, but the mindset was similar for a long time.
Wow! Great video and an amazing service to the community. Curious why you went for per48min, as opposed to per100poss? I guess with the former you can speed through games until the next Jordan substitution, with the latter you might have to count every single possession?
You a killer TB. Love these breakdowns
Watched It again! Thinking of doing something like those for other Legends? Magic, Bird, Hakeem... It would be the thinking basketball special
Appreciate the work you did to bring us this video bro!
Whether MJ was the greatest ever, I don't know. He's certainly got as good an argument as anyone, but there have been a lot of greats. What can't be doubted is that he was the most stylish, most graceful player ever. He's poetry in motion.
I agree and think it’s a principal factor in why he’s widely revered as the greatest. He played the way we all wished we could play in our minds.
There is no debate. Jordan is the greatest.
@@yza9654 Or maybe because he has the best numbers..
@@jonathansykes4986 why are you here? Ben clearly said MJ is not an outlier.
@@SteveCrimialMindsFan he is individually
This is a great video and it does shine a light on how great jordan was, consistently. How he improved his team yearly. I really do wish you would have done his whole career, forget the amount of games in early years. They didn't win much in those first 3 years, but you would see EVEN HIGHER numbers for the plus minus. You would also be able to compare the Celtics and bucks to the bulls and other teams the bulls played. This would show just how bad they were and quality of their opponents.
You would have also mentioned the plus minus of pippen as a rookie and sophomore as well as grants. You would have done theirs for their whole careers. Because you're using a stat that decides the quality of players and the impacts on/of teammates. The fact should be made clear that it wasn't a bunch of superstars around jordan, they were role players. The fact is, they wouldn't have been as good, especially early in their careers, especially compared to jordan, it would be absolutely clear that he developed them. They had to practice with him and he kept scottie after practice a lot early in his career.
THATS the impact on players you SHOULD have measured. Make a part 2 with all the data you took, I assume you did new box scores for every game, not just jordan. So you should be able to apply this to anyone on that team, if you did the job properly. Also the gravity jordan had on a defense CREATED those easy shots when he was ON the floor, it wasn't like THEY were taking the most difficult of shots, HE WAS, EVERY GAME.
Great point. I have been saying this all the time. If he did his job as the leader of the basketball team, their performance should have improved over the years. He played a major part in the team’s development in the late 80’s to create the monster squad in the early 90s. They knew how to win, so when he left, they were prepared. This is not like some other players were when they leave a team, the team sucks. Where is the true development that should have happened due to the leader’s greatness? It’s not making the game easy for your teammates, rather elevating their game so that it is easier for the leader.
You started the video trying to prove that Jordan's Bulls was stacked and instead you gave us a video of how great Jordan was. Love it.
6:17 the way MJ surveys the floor while mid-air is amazing.. his Airness the GOAT Michael Jordan
Jump passes are widely known as a bad habit.
@@JonBernard41 Not for MJ
@@JonBernard41 Not when you have a 40+ inch vertical 😉
Man I watched 90% of those playoff games I bet ya... it was a stacked deck and Phil Jackson made a huge difference...But Jordan was the biggest difference trust me! Those mid 80s playoff games the were barely able to get in and never woulda came close w out MJ
What would be interesting to see is what the Bulls would look like with no Jordan in the last 6 mins of a game vs having Jordan. Because he was the Bulls' closer. He took over so many games in the 4th quarter. Games the Bulls definitely lose if Mike wasn't on the floor.
We saw that in 93/94. It was Kukoc or bust!
@@depannist Yea very true. Toni did hit quite a few buzzer beaters. I meant a player imposing their will on the game and instilling fear in the opponent. Nobody was scared of Toni Kukoc.The BJ quote sums it up: "Jordan didn't even really play basketball anymore. He just figured out how to win the game. He knew how to steer momentum. He know how to get guys going. Not only was he that good on the offensive end, he was that good on the defensive end. He was just playing a different game than the rest of us. He let us play but he was there to win the game." That in my opinion sums up Jordan from 91 on. Only Kobe also did this and did it consistently. Meaning both Mike and Kobe could do it every game. Curry's game 4 of last years Finals was like that. He took that game over. Steph does it sometimes but he's about the only one in today's game that can. Id throw KD in there but he's hurt too much and misses too many games.
@@roboninja3194 Agreed
Great video! One thing to consider when referencing this stat you have to consider the era and rules. After 2000s the numbers will be higher because the NBA changed how defense would be played. +/- has its place, but the amounts of shots has to factor in based on less defense. So you have to extrapolate Jordan's +/- based on these changes for a clearer picture when comparing him to Robinson/Curry/Shaq/LeBron.
Mj's team not being trash without him is not a bad thing, he was the leader of the team and always pushed them in practice and helped them improve their game and become mentally tough. His teammates making progress in their game while playing with Jordan is a sign of his greatness as well. Also that has something to do with the team's offenseive system, that wasn't built for him. Like LeBron's teams that stop functioning and look so lost when he sits down because he is their system, he runs every play and makes every decision, while others just do their simple tasks of stretching the floor for him, waiting to get the pass to shoot the 3 and cutting, but without him they don't know what to do. MJ did his damage by being a part of the system, not the system itself, that's why his bulls were able to hold their own and play without him as well.
Exactly
This is the problem with seeing everything through statistics: in this case the plus/minus. The Plus/Minus cannot measure leadership, driving teammates in practice to be more accountable, teamwork on the floor, offensive system, coaching decisions, etc. It REWARDS the LeBron system where LeBron controls everything on the court -- and didn't win or dominate as much. MJ had a similar system in the 80's. Had he chosen to he would have blown up every offensive record not held by Wilt but he wouldn't have become the 6 time champion that way. MJ won by stepping back! There is no stat that can measure that dynamic. No stat to measure the impact "The Breakfast Club" had on his teammates.
Come on man look at Jordan's usage and tell me the team wasn't built around him
@@gordonbradbury4130 What he meant was that the triangle offense was not contingent on MJ doing everything. The offense didn't depend on MJ making every decision. He was a major part of the system but he wasn't THE system.
I’d say that if players get better playing with you and continue to play at that level after, you made that player better. If you go off the court and now that player looks garbage, you didn’t make them a better player, you just made them reliant on you.
If we use this method to somehow value how different coaches impact their team with a same core.......would be interesting to see
I'm old school... meaning, the first three and a half quarters are just for the fans. So long as the game is within three or four baskets going into the last half of the fourth quarter, it just comes down to who has enough energy left to score at will.
Jordan was that guy.
And on the defensive end, he and Pippen could also stop the other team from scoring.
During the six championships playoff runs, there were only two times I thought the Bulls might actually lose...once was against the Pat Riley coached Knicks led by Patrick Ewing, when they had to stop Charles Smith in the closing seconds five consecutive times underneath the basket in game five (had NY won that, they might have won)); and once against the Larry Bird coached Indiana Pacers in game 7. Neither were finals games, but I'm pretty sure those two games were for the championship those seasons.
I didn't think there was any chance the Bulls wouldnt defeat Utah both times. One finals game, in the last minute against Utah, Jordan scores quickly, strips Karl Malone on the defensive end, then scores the winning basket.
That's what I mean by the Bulls could win at will back then.
Awesome video! Michael's pursuit of excellence produced the best athlete I've ever witnessed in team sports! Thanks for putting that together!
He's the absolute goat. Thanks for this detailed information!
Mike looks so natural playing basketball
Plus minus is good but one major flaw is that it hurts players who have a strong bench. I’m sure Duncan’s numbers are effected by the fact he had Manu Ginobli to carry the offense while Duncan sat. And Lebron is helped tremendously by the fact he rarely ever had a a good bench so no one on the bench to carry the team.
3:33 lol. Jordan is a fan of the channel 30 years ago
thats literally the point of it though, its to show who had a good bench and who didnt. confirming bulls were absolutely top dog in 90s and were top tier even without jordan
Hey, I want to say what a great video this was and I appreciate you took the time look at about 100 playoff games. At 17:55 you pretty much sum up why I think Jordan is the clear goat. I was 13 when Jordan won his first championship and it was my first year watching NBA more serious. For the next 6 playoffs of Jordan (not including comeback year), he was just unstoppable. I felt confident Jordan was easily the best player, best clutch player, and would win (except last ring when Jordan was aging). I’ve been watching basketball religiously since 1990 and not even lebron feels like Jordan. Shaq through 3 quarters was the closest I saw in dominating the game but his inability to take over at end of the game is why I still put lebron as the best since Jordan.
I can’t make the same judgements about players before 1990 but since 1990, Jordan especially in playoffs has been the clear GOAT. That feeling of knowing with high certainty the bulls will win due to Jordan playing great ball and Just about always coming through in the clutch is something I probably will never feel again.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson its funny you dont count the comeback year cuz he was playing better then than the next season, but jordan made excuses about basktball body and being rusty, casual ass clowns gobbled that shit up
Yes that's what this video is about lol. It's asking if Jordan had a good team and as we can see he clearly had an elite supporting cast
@@youraverage90sguys7 I wouldn't say that's the point though. Some people look at that plus/minus to judge how great a player was. Some use it to see how good a bench is. The truth is that's a flawed but still worthwhile stat. You can take the exact same team and try to measure their stars plus/minus one season and then do the same next season with identical team but with the best bench player out. Season two will produce much better plus/minus difference for the star player but it doesn't mean he was any better than previous season -- his plus/minus numbers benefited from the weaker bench.
Absolutely fantastic and fascinating video, especially for a huge MJ fan. Why did it take me so long to discover you? I will definitely be checking out more.
Michael made the team better by molding them in practice, over the years. He DROVE them to greatness. So, the result is, they are great without him in the game. This is an intangible piece of his greatness.
I think one of the things underrated about Jordan is his quickness. His ability to move and the height of his jump to get his shots off is unprecedented.
Wha??? They called him "Black Cat!" He is "Air Jordan"??? Underrated in neither ty
He was called black cat & air jordan for a reason. Everyone knew those parts of his game. What goes more under the radar was how great he played off the ball. Mj could torch a team without barely putting the ball down on the floor. His catch n shoot game was a beauty to see. His 1 or 2 dribble pull up game was another beauty. Getting into right scoring angles without the ball as well. His iq without the ball was off the charts
@@MR.__G Exactly, which translates to, you can't guard the guy. Doesn't matter what era he plays in, Jordan is unguardable.
@@saltymonkey8874 agree with everything you said. With all this freedom of movement, lack of defense physicality & spacing, he would destroy the league
underrated? everyone knows that his extremely rare combination of quickness and size is what made him the goat.
Kobe had a similar combination. Hakeem was also insanely quick for his size. And even Shaq abnormally quick for a super heavy weight.
5:04 that was a very smooth move by the GOAT
Good video man. This is a pretty good summary of the 90’s bulls with Jordan.
Omg this is a classic, the way you broke down his fadeaway and defense is eye opening
It's all in the practice. The most elite captains will always make a team better. If I'm a bench guy and I'm practicing with Jordan and pipen every day I will torch any bench guy and most starters I go against because I already play against the absolute best every single day in practice. It's really that simple.
Due to the free flowing of offense in the later years(2010 onwards or so), the numbers isn't exactly comparable. God damn MJ is good
Being a data professional myself, the poster's approach is refreshing compared to so much trash on social media. Well done!
The only people I can see debating that MJ isn’t the best to date….are probably too young to have watched him play. The 90’s were filled with legends and Jordan stood out amongst them all.
I would love to do this with Steph Curry from 2016 to 2019, I wonder what his creation would look like, I feel like he's definitely had multiple 15+ baskets created games.
One difference is steph is covered by 2 to 3 people a lot of the time. I guess they didn't do that back then.
@@ToddHoff that coverage is the reason why his +/- on/off is always so impressive
@@ToddHoff they used to do that to jordan
Awesome analytics!! One thing you failed to mention in regards to the supporting cast consistently playing better even when Jordan is on the bench.
The other teams best defenders are also on the bench taking a breather when Jordan is taken out of the game = less defense = more opportunity to score ☺️
does that not apply to every single star player in the league
So he was always in the plus for the +/-. Very cool.