Jordan vs Lebron: End To All GOAT Debates
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2024
- While the GOAT debate between Jordan and Lebron rages on, when the stats are pulled up, there is really only one true GOAT. This video goes through extensive data and stats to conclude the GOAT debate once and for all.
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TbH it was NEVER a debate 😂.
Hell nawl, not even close, even if LeBron had 6 rings or wouldn't be once you dive deeper into it.
You have to realize LeBron came into NBA and instantly took over with low average teams...
@@JeromeLee-wf8wsfacts he was 22 and took his team to the finals
Dude the east was so weak for a long stretch of LeBron career. West has been more dominant since Jordan left the league.
@@JeromeLee-wf8wsIt wasn't instantly, he missed the playoffs his first 2 seasons but they did get better and double their wins. They went from 17-65 to 35-47, but the Nuggets in 02-03 had the same record. After getting Carmelo Anthony their record was 43-39 and they made the playoffs. With winning 8 more games as a rookie and having better numbers he should've been rookie of the year.
MJ accomplished more in less time and didn’t have to make a superteam. This was never a debate.
A finals lost is a lost, but to get swept twice in the finals and still call yourself the goat is Atrocious… you got swept! Twice, swept.
Rightly said. You can never be in a GOAT conversation being swept twice.
And losing 4-1 another two times.
@@cotati76 I wanted to bring those two gentlemen sweep up but I said.. nah. You are 1000% right!
@@dangeo1020 I wanted to make sure to give him ALL the credit he deserves.
Might be 3😂
the olympic was the most embarrassing moment for all those NBA players. which included LBJ. that should automatically take him out of GOAT debate.
Yep what a loser
here's another good take...Lebron left the goat conversation when he teamed up with players he SHOULD have been competing against... Lebron, Dwade, and Bosh were 3 of the top 4 draft picks of their class (missing only Carmelo)...Lebron SHOULD have been having epic battles against Dwade, Bosh, and Carmelo...NOT joining together to get cheap rings...on the other hand, NONE of the other Bulls on MJ's teams would have been competition for him (not even PIppen) if they were on other teams...none of those other Bulls were team franchise players....MJ was THE player, Lebron was just one of 2 or 3 of his super teams
As much as I think Lebron is utterly inferior to Jordan, Bosh and Carmelo never would've been serious competition for Lebron. Carmelo had the stat padding, no defense tendencies of Lakers Lebron except he was dumb enough to do it in his prime and Bosh even at his best never took the Raptors anywhere, even in the craptastic Eastern conference.
Bron was with Cleveland for 7 years his Gm didn’t bring a star player to help him
@@thegoat4148if he was good enough they would have wanted to play with him!
MJ was the player 🤣🤣🤣bruhh what did Mike achieved on the 80s when he's the player. Answer me now bum. It take the GOAT of coach, the GOAT of sidekick, the GOAT of rebound, bunch of hall of famers, and pure shooter to save his ass for him to win a chip. In fact when MJ left 93. Chicago wins 57 games with pip almost got the mvp. That's how good Chicago is when he's not around. Compare to brons team when he left. What happen to them
@@fherdiliciouzfherdz1525 what are you talking about? do you not understand what I said? answer me now bum! NONE of MJ's teammates would have been his competition on another team....LEBRON HAD 3 of the top 5 DRAFT PICKS of his own class!! THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN HIS COMPETITORS...
How many rings do you think MJ would have if he had 3 of the top 5 picks of HIS draft?? Akeem Olajuwon, Sam Bowie, Sam Perkins, Charles Barkley.....ANY TWO of those people on the same team as MJ would have been a powerhouse...THAT'S LEBRONS SHORTCUT...if you can't see that, you dont know basketball....twisted facts... "goat rebounder", Rodman? what about the first 3peat? Pippen came in at 7ppg and followed MJ's lead to become what he was...but in the end ONLY MJ brought the rings/3peats, not Pippen..."shooter to save him"...there were no game 7's so no one saved anyone UNLIKE Lebron who had several save him from ELIMINATION (allen, kyrie)
Where are all the LeBron fans? They don't like hearing facts broken down that proves who the real GOAT is.
It’s because they take it personal l, it’s not it’s just pure numbers and accomplishments! Lebron is a great player but he is not MJ but neither is anyone else so he should just keep playing until he retires and be happy. One in two million players that come through the system even make it to the NBA
Jordan fans resume all to rings, but when is Bill Russell, they have only excuses. Lebron is a better scorer, passer, rebounder, blocker. Better at triples, better at triples doubles. Lebron never had a goat coach. Jordan never faced a prime curry, a prime Durant, a prime Duncan, a 73-9 team
@@martinfal756Westbrook better than LeBron at triple doubles tf that stat have to do with anything 😂😂😂😂
Lebrons the goat. That’s all there is to it haters. That’s why these type of videos keep coming out. How you gon have a #3 overall pick on a pampered team be your goat? We all saw the bulls make a run in the playoffs without him. Lebron’s teams on the other hand didn’t even make the playoffs when he left. Stop it. 🤦 Goats carry teams 💪🐐. End of discussion.
Why do you want that Michael Jordan be the greatest so bad? Lebron James fan right here I ain't running. So what's up? Answer my question, honestly. 💯🤷🏿♂️
Absolute 5-star video. Another complete demolition of the fake debate that never had any business existing in the first place. Salute!
Use Basketball Metrics - This is what truly measure performance. That is the objective metric and with that - the below is not even an all inclusive list of Objective Metrics...
1st off - winning titles is a team accomplishment and you must have and be on a SQUAD ....to win a NBA Championship
Jordan played with Horace Grant - #19 all time in Offensive Rebounds for 3 titles....and Dennis Rodman - #4 all time Offensive Rebounds.....The Great Pat Riley once accurately said NO REBOUNDS - NO RINGS....MJ had these ELITE All Time great guys getting the Bulls extra possessions - #4 and #19 was and is now their ALL TIME OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING RANKING.....he also had Steve Kerr WHO IS #1 ALL TIME with the highest shooting % from 3 THAT'S ALL TIME....and BJ Armstrong also top 13 ALL TIME SHOOTING % FROM 3.....Hodges and Paxson.....ELITE FLOOR SPACING.....Coaching and Pippen.....To sum up the team Jordan was on....they won 50+ games after his first retirement - If Lebron joined a 50+ win team - What do you think would happen? Continuity matters....it is easy to stay with a SUPER TEAM.....that's what that was - a well put together SUPER SQUAD....than to bust it up and win with different guys and coaches and systems and cities......that is my opinion but based on those teammates and coach [Phil Jackson] that he has
But now back to BASKETBALL OBJECTIVE METRICS - and I won't even list them all - BUT JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE A POINT:
LEBRON
#1 ALL TIME LEADING SCORER - PLAYOFFS AND REGULAR SEASON...and that's with him being on the Lakers and not making deep runs and even missing playoffs.
ONLY PLAYER WITH A TRIPLE QUINTUPLE IN NBA HISTORY [40000 points, 11,000+ rebounds AND 11,000+ assists]
no other player has 28,000, 8,000 and 8,000
Lebron is still sprinting up and down the court - Year 21 - constantly being described as BEST TRANSITION PLAYER ALL TIME
#4 ALL TIME IN REGULAR SEASON ASSISTS [and probably will pass Chris Paul to be #3 all time in regular season career assists]
ALL TIME LEADER IN PLAYOFFS IN ASSISTS, STEALS, GAMES WON, SERIES WON
8 STRAIGHT FINALS APPEARANCES WITH TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS [Miami Heat & Cleveland Cavaliers]
3 NBA TITLES WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....3 FINALS MVPS WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....
Different Sidekicks, Coaches, and Rosters...3 DIFFERENT OWNERS
MOST NBA ALL STAR VOTES [folks don't realize this - but by tens of millions - not close]
MOST ALL STAR APPEARANCES
MOST ALL NBAs......
and
MOST TOP 5 FINISHES IN NBA MVP VOTINGS
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS AVG 25 PPG.....[not close .....LBJ 20....Durant maybe 2nd at 12]
MOST NBA PLAYER OF MONTH ALL TIME [not close]
MOST NBA PLAER OF WEEK ALL TIME [not close]
MOST CONSECUTIVE GAMES SCORING 10 PPG [lebron well over 1200 games - Jordan 2nd at 880 or so - not close]
MOST COMBINED MINUTES PLAYED ALL TIME [LEBRON AROUND 68000......everyone else washed and done by now - LBJ Still Playing Year 21 and heading into Year 22 - Again Not Close]
HAS A TON OF YOUNGEST TO NBA RECORDS....meaning was in NBA before Jordan and other All Time greats
and was playing at a Great Level at age 18
and
HAS A TON OF OLDEST TO NBA RECORDS.....meaning Lebron was and is still in the NBA after Jordan and other greats retired and playing at a Great Level beyond when others were washed up or retired
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS CHASE DOWN BLOCK - WHAT PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS "THE BLOCK" WHAT GAME, AND PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
yeah right - Cavs - Warriors Game 7 -- LBJ and Igadola
LEBRON HAS 54 PLAYOFF GAMES WHERE HE LED HIS TEAM IN POINTS, REBOUNDS AND ASSISTS - NBA RECORD
Nikola Jokic just passed Larry Bird and is 2nd All Time with 15 [AGAIN NOT CLOSE]
THERE ARE LIKE 30 MORE OF THESE I CAN TYPE.....but can't and won't
Our kids kids won't understand this video and the comments in this thread or the other haters in the media that has this MJ bias.....
By basketball metrics it is clearly LBJ
WE WERE ALL WITNESSES!
stop hatin!
@@Officiallyjaystickrings?
😂
Getting swept in the finals is one thing but FAKING a BROKEN HAND after the SWEEP is an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE and is BEHAVIOR of A LIAR and a LOSER!
I have spent over 10 years watching both and I can say Jordan is the better player.
He is and I have nothing against Lebron he is First ballot HOF player no doubt but MJ had no flaws in his game one major one that Lebron has never seem to shake is his FT percentage 74 percent for a player if his caliber is piss poor.
@@paulespinoza1994 No I agree LeBron is a great player absolutely no doubt and he has been for many years. LeBron is just simply not the killer Jordan was. I was very disappointed to see how he blamed his teammates for the finals loss to Dallas, I watched every game of that series and he was the main reason for it.
Just look at his body language on the court. He pouts on the court. That’s gotta be really hard to have a teammate that gives up at the first sign of adversity.
If you watched both, then it's more than 10 years . I already can't trust your word.
@@ryandavis6245 I watched Jordan from 86 to retirement. I watched James for 2000 to date. Last I checked that means I watched both for over 10 years so I have more experience than I thought.
One player has a good amount of clear "negatives," i.e. things that you can say wouldnt make anyone the greatest at anything.
The other barely has even one that you can point to and say "well, THIS hurts his case...
One is "in the debate" with 21 seasons.
The other is the majority's overwhelming choice of GOAT with more or less 13.
One has had, when in comparison to the other, virtually countless multi time all star teammates, on 3 different teams.
The other has had one multi time all star teammate as his running mate, and another legendary-ish player for only 3 seasons.
One has had detractors talk about choke jobs, or "shying away from the last shot/from the ball itself," with real instances to back it up.
The other could never be one to have the CHOKE be pointed towards him, and absolutely never, EVER shyed away from anything less than wanting the ball in his hands for last shot, last few minutes, even entire 4th quarter.
Doesnt matter who youre talking about in what sport, you cannot talk greatest ever under these circumstances, and frankly, i usually just stop after the 1st 2.
You don't have to get into stats. You dont have to get into championships won or record in those championships.
This isnt to say one failed and the othet didnt. This isnt to say one is the greatest and the other is just some mediocre player.
This is talking what sadly SO MANY misunderstand when having this "debate," and that's the true definition of GREATEST.
THE GREATEST, simply put, would not have that many things to point to where someone has to go hard tryin to give a rebuttal.
And the fact of the matter is, even if by some insane miracle the Lakers win the chip this year, it doesnt change ANY of those 4 facts i laid out
So long as there's an overall losing finals record, losses with better teammates, horrible clutch moments (and stats 😉), and an overall body of work that isnt as good in 21 years vs a guy who played almost half that, there is just no debate.
And as a knicks fan since 86, i absolutely despise Michael Jordan lol... but the man IS THE GOAT.
PERIOD.
This is probably one of the best explanations I ever read for a while.
👏👏👏👏👏Well said sir!!!! I mean just wow all you can say is GOT EMMMMM 😂😂💯💯💯💯💯🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
Well explained, thanks ✌️
Jordan quit. Twice. While the best player in the league. The strain of three straight finals runs was more than he could handle. Don't pretend he doesn't doesn't have massive stains on his legacy. That's the Jordan standard though, the lows are ignored. Most carefully crafted media narrative image in the history of the game.
He's also 0-2 against Bird, 1-3 against Thomas, and1-1 vs. Shaq. Only top level ATG player/team he ever faced and emerged with a winning record against was Magic whose team was on its last legs already. But we're supposed to pretend none of that matters, and he has a perfect resume.
@myaccountisntthisone u proved how much a hater you are once you said he quit cuz of pressure. I happen to be on the conspiracy side and believe the hidden suspension....
But to make NO MENTION of his father BEING MURDERED... did u SEE his reaction when he completed the 1st 3peat?
U probably have no clue why without looking it up.
And NOW I'll finally address your wide, slow, telegraphed haymakers.
None of that is REMOTELY close to LeBron's negatives. At all. In any slant or universe, as long as you're being honest.
Larry Bird is better than anyone LeBron beat or lost to. Period. And Jordan was still 2nd, 3rd year, including his lost injury year?
Oh btw, u know Charles Oakley, right?
U know, that versatile, super athletic, offensive FORCE OF NATURE, drilling J's in everyone's face, jumping from just inside the free throw line, quadruple crossover'n everyone?
U know that man right? Yeah me neither. Cuz that ain't Charles Oakley.
And that was MJ's early years 2nd option...
17 games I believe, coming back after busting his hump playing baseball,... no basketball training camp, no drills,,etc...and don't u DARE tell me that baseball is "easy" or some shit, cuz then I know ur a Delusional, uninformed, tubby.... and I'll wait to see ur response on that specifically...
But anyway, really, none of that matters because what u deem as some negative failure when a 4 season or less MJ lost to Bird's LEGENDARY, top 5 all time Celts...
63.
That's probably all I had to say.
Forgive me if I came off like MJ is infallible.
He's not. His 50%ish FG% in the clutch is outstanding, but it literally means he could miss just as much as he doesn't.
But in NBA, it's INCREDIBLE for that situation and GOD LEVEL compared to your boys' under 30%.
So.
Once again.
Comparing MJ's negatives/failures to virtually anyone else's (and let's be real I'm sure u mean LEBRON) is like me trying to feed u plain, low sugar, one scoop of Vanilla ice cream in a cup, and immediately asking ur thoughts.
"Meh" is probably somewhat your thoughts.
It's fine.
It's ice cream. But nothing crazy.
But then u turn around and try to feed me a cup of fresh, moist, musty, warm, horse manure--- but u are selling this CRAP like it's the goddamn best cut of filet mignon I or ANY LIVING human anyone could have...
And THEN GOING A STEP FURTHER, AND U SAYING THAT MY PLAIN VANILLA ICE CREAM IS JUST AS BAD AS YOUR FOAMY, THICK HORSE MANURE CUP 😅😅😅!
It's Delusional, ignorant, and pathetic
Lebron struggles to be considered top 10 all time. Its only because of his "help" he has 4 rings. Its because of Jordan,that Jordans "help" got" 6 rings.
Not a Jordan fan, but absolutely NOT a Lebron guy, and I do think MJ is the GOAT. And Lebron is friggin awesome (not top 5 all time though)...
Just wanted to get that out of the way and say that I disagree with your statement just a bit, in that while his Cavs champ team was good, he was clearly the reason they won, and boy oh boy did he come out and whip some arss, amd defeat the winningest regular season team in history; a team that was no stranger to the playoffs or finals, and had a prime Steph.
That win over the Warriors, especially coming back from down 3-1, is the one thing I'll truly give Lebron credit for, and lots of it. Again, not saying it was Lebron and a bunch of Kelly Oubre's out there or something lol... but he was the leader of course and overcame a tremendous amount to get that chip
ALSO that said, Lebron vs MJ as the GOAT should not ever be a debate.
Period amen 😂
@@masterrserch3971LeBron beat up on smaller teams when he faces a team with size he comes up short
@@user-mv2oo4hc3j The Spirs dynasty won 5 rings why you sittin here actin like they bums. The 2nd time he literally faced the greatest team ever assembled so this point is mute.
@@masterrserch3971 Kyrie was sooo underrated. He literally outplayed Curry but never gets his dues.
To say Lebron isn't top 10 is ridiculous 😂😂😂😂 MJ is by far the more dominant player but Lebron is definitely a top 5 player.
There's never a debate between Jordan and Lebron to begin with! Michael Jordan is hands down the GOAT!
11:33 the best metaphor ever......Lebron = cheap buffet, MJ = 5-star meal. What does that say about their respective stans?
Cheap buffet is crazy considering how good his peak was
tho good...this too was stolen from Dangerousproductions "Jordan vs Bron Best Comparison Ever" video, like 3-5 yrs ago. Much of this, is word for word, stolen
@@evolucien1309I wouldn’t doubt it. RUclipsrs are something else. I’m seeing more stolen content and AI generated scripts than ever. It’s pathetic.
If most points all time amd 4 mvps with 4 rings is a chesp buffet then whats everypne whose under these two pond scum? They both great and play different positions. End of argument.
LeBron is The Sheeit
He’s Dope AF
But still…. JORDAN is Thee GOAT
& really is not close
All the analytics we have now
& Mike only gets better.
It’s a trip
Lebron is not even the greatest Laker so it’s not even close. Lebron is synonymous to choke, turnover, Balco😂
Is he even a top 10 Lakers player? Kobe, Shaq, magic, Kareem, west, Gail, worthy and Baylor are all above him. I'd put the brow above him too. That means you only need one guy to boot him and I'm just going off the top of my head as not a Lakers guy.
@@isaoblack987bro you just put AD over him when LeBron was there a season before AD. You obviously come from a place of bias. Please never give your opinion on basketball ever again
@@cockknockers694 by your logic Marc Eaton and Adrian Dantley are better Jazz players than Stockton or Malone, David Robinson is better than Tim Duncan... they were there first after all! Be serious my dude. Your argument is quite easy to punch holes in without much effort.
In any case I've thought of another all time Laker to put above Bron with some old school George Mikkan. Replace AD with him if you must and then try to argue LeBron into even a top 5 position.
@@cockknockers694 AD is WAY better than him and I can't stand AD either
@@cockknockers694 and that season was a total disaster for the Lakers so I'm not really sure what point you think you're proving here.
Lebron aint even close to Mike..he's barely in my top 12
Your opinion
Who cares about your top 12😅
@@fherdiliciouzfherdz1525 I care. Just explain the 8 points of LBJ in his prime and I will name 20 player better thsn LeBron 😂
You can look at whatever numbers you want to but my main thing is that Jordan never lost in the finals. He also has a college championship and gold medal
6 Finals MVP’s without playing a game 7.
Gold medal, 8-0 against some of the best players in the game in there times at that time. I remember seeing clips of those games he was dunking and dominating these games and made it look easy. The look in these players faces were priceless. It was like this dude is from another planet it was crazy!!!!
2 Gold Medals 1984 &1992. The 84 was all about him too. He was already cooking pros in games then. PS Jordan's Olympic team was 9-0 vs Pros like Magic- W.Davis-Worthy-Bird- Thomas-McHale and many other All Stars..now that's dominance
Bill Russell 11-1 and John Halvicek 8-0 in the finals
@@thegoat4148 Yes..back before the NBA-ABA merger..not to take away what they did but half the world's greatest players were in the ABA ..Best to you. PS no player have had the impact that MJ did ..from the shoes to being the most famous NBA player of all time..by the way never lost a championship game or series Final from the NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP to the
The Pan-Am games and the Olympics and of course 6 NBA Finals total win loss11-0..never faced a gm 7 in the Finals. Again best to u again.
We need to take into account that Lebron has played a full 82 game season ONE FUCKING TIME in his career. MJ has done t 9 or 10 times
LEBRON TO ME IS A QUITTER WHILE MJ IN HIS MIND NEVER QUITS EVEN TEY ARE DOWN EVERY MINUTE THAT'S A CHAMPION MENTALITY":)
Lebron made a notable difference for his teams. Jordan made a notable difference for the sport.
MJ is the GOAT and this argument is as good as any I have seen on RUclips or TV as it is supported with great stats. Only 2 points I think could be refined.
1. Played with Allstars was a bit unfair. Better to compare how many times players who were all stars played with MJ/LBJ and not their whole All Star career stats.
2. Pro rata stats of what LBJ would need to achieve given his length of career to catch MJ was harsh with age performance will naturally decline so it's impossible to keep up with achievements.
Aside that, this video is comprehensive - especially the summary @ 24:30. Plus you never mentioned LBJ leaving Cleveland to chase rings 1 and 2 with big 3 - Not all rings are created equal!
hi good points!
i think he did show the active allstars played with MJ/lebron before the totals which r indeed misleading
i agree about decline with age, but that is a good answer to the longevity arguments that the lebron camp flashes
also, as far as playoffs go, MJ was outscored 1 time (by 0.5ppg) by 1 opponent and that was as a rookie.....that's it...Lebron has been outscored by many teammates and opponents
If Jordan is the greatest and if Kobe's the closest thing to Jordan; Kobe has to be number two. They carried their teams to full season championships and not a bubble! 6 finals MVPs will never be touched! LeBron James has one scoring title, but eve. Steph Curry has two scoring titles. If Jordan would have went to 10 finals like LeBron do you believe Jordan would have four championships? Oh wait, Jordan has six championships in six finals!
Totally agreed on Kobe. He's been crazy underrated since he retired. He didn't have all of Jordan's natural gifts, but he had all his skills plus some new ones and literally broke his body trying to carry a garbage team in his best years. Still got 5 rings and a few nights where he outscored the entire opposing team for a half. An 82 point game back in the mid aughts that would be equivalent to 92 today, too.
I agree, Kobe way more meaningful and better than Bron.
@SirJoCocchi Yea. You always hear how LeBron James needs more help! I've never heard that for Kobe. I always wondered why Bron needed multiple All-Stars to win. Curry dropped James in 2015, and everyone said that LeBron didn't have Kevin Love and Kyrie, excuse, but Steph didn't have Love and Kyrie either...lol Kobe said that he didn't need Shaq and Kobe didn't! Much like Draymond told KD, we won before you got here, and we'll when after you gone: Curry @ Boston. Bron never had that in him, and that's the separation between Bron and (Jordan, Kobe).
Wade is better than Lebron..
This aint even a question. Im a lakers fan. We about to get swept for the second year in a row by Denver. Dont EVER put Lebron James in the same sentence as Michael Jeffery Jordan.
Fame was looking for Jordan while Lebron trailed for fame!
never an argument. Lebron isnt even top 5. Mj, Kareem, Magic, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird
That's a insane lineup I have to put doctor J as the sixth man. Now who can stop that. They would be unstoppleable.
If it wasn't for the fake media hype to have something to talk about and attract audience this would never be a debate...i would add one more point in favour of MJ and that's dominance! After three years of being beaten he and the bulls finally jumped over in a dominant fashion and ended the pistons reign thus preventing them from becoming a real dynasty(went superior to IT, Rodman, Lambeer). Then he ended Lakers attempts to regain the throne for almost a decade (this time won the duel with Magic). Stopped Clyde and the blazers, then Barkley and KJ, after a hiccup demolished Shaq and AH, Kemp and Payton, and Malone and Stockton. The only one he "failed" against in his early years and never had a chance for revenge was Larry Bird. Once MJ took the torch from Larry and Magic there was no turning back no matter how many teams tried to dethrone him. Lebron on the other hand has negative record against each of his superstar opponents: Tim, Steph, Durant. And that's the difference between winning and losing, you're either a winner or end up next generation kids who never watched old school bball call you a plumber
10 scoring titles 6 finals mvps im done talking he completed the game.. brought success to the team that drafted him(bulls)played while he was half dead(flu game)cmon man 😂
Oh and don't forget 1 DPOTY and 9 nba all defensive 1st teams!
ummm anyone gonna mention how this video was almost a 1to1 copy of DangerProductions video like 3 -5yrs ago?
Yeah. I noticed that too. Even made the same buffet vs fancy meal comparison for defense. But I will say I like the addition at thy beginning, mentioning the thrashing of the pros while in college.
Teams had a hard time stopping Jordan when he had little help.
How is having Scottie pippin and Dennis Rodman little help
@@coconut9301before he got scottie and after he was still doing very solidly
I think the pistons did a great job before the league changed the rules
@mmartinez9764 the pistons never stopped Jordan, they stopped the bulls. Go check Jordan's individual stats against those bad boys teams. They just reserved to the position he couldn't beat them alone so they forced the other players to beat them and that was their formula for success against the bulls.
@@kb72977 as well as made it Hard for Jordan everytime He had the BALL IN THe LANE. Most people believe "The Jordan Rules" was due to Rule changes...but actually it the STRATEGY the Pistons deployed to defend Jordan when he had the Ball (A lot of Hard Fouling in the paint).
I'd rather watch Jordan dribbling the ball, that watch LeBron scoring
That’s the fact of all this fantasy question.
LeBron ain't even better than KOBE! The absolute disrespect Bean gets by not even getting mentioned
"Any media person that I see in person for the rest of my life, who try to tell me LeBron James is as good as Michael Jordan," Barkley said, "I'm just gonna slap the hell out of him right on the spot. Right on the damn spot. No questions asked."
His airness on full display no one is close nobody case closed 🔐
I’d also add MJ blew the sport of basketball up. His style of play was so entertaining enemies could sit side by side and freeze in time. Rock in his hands, 👅 tongue hanging out you knew anything was a possibility. 🐐
But that's not really important in context of who is a better player. If you are talking about legacy, entertainment factor, and iconic status, sure. But not basketball skill.
This was never a debate, to begin with! 6-0 in the finals vs 4-6 in the finals, one gutted it out in Chicago, and the other bounced around the NBA trynna to team up with the most talented players! MJ had to go through the rough and tumble Eastern Conference dealing with the Boston Celtics, the Detroit Pistons, the CAVS, the Knicks, the Pacers, the Magic, etc., in an era when hand-checking was allowed, and there was no three-second defensive rule! And he got 10 scoring titles against that kinda defense, to LBJs 1! MJ played in all 82 games 9 times, to LBJs 1! MJ is 9 time all defensive team to LBJs 5, and he has a DPOY to LBJs 0! MJ is a 5 time MVP of the regular season to LBJs 4! MJ never even came close to losing in international competition, and there was a time when LeBron was called LeBronze! MJ won 2 dunk championships to LBJ never even competing, and we live in an era where D Leaguers win dunk championships!
Well put !
Larry Bird is top 5 all time, I would even put him 2nd or 3rd.
1. MJ
2. Magic/Bird
3. Bird/Magic.
And then the rest.
The longer LeBron plays, the clearer the case is for Michael.
Tim Duncan is better the Lebalco.
Thank you so~~much. It couldn't be more true. MJ will always be untouchable and far away. There will never be anyone like him. He shines alone in the distance. Watching the modern game, you will really understand how incredible MJ is💫🌟💫 Video quality is great
The debate had already ended MJ is the goat
MJ is the blueprint HIM GOAT....1 of 1....it is as simple as that
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends.
Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ.
Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2.
Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3.
91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic.
92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half
93-- average 41 points per game highest ever.
Jordan has a higher peak which LeBron has not surpassed
The GOAT debate ended in 2011.
The reason Lebron appeared in 10 finals is due to the Eastern conference being super weak for the past 2 decades. Since being traded to the Heat and the eventual return to Cavs, James never missed the NBA Finals for 8 straight seasons, but only won 3 times. Meanwhile, im the 6 years after being traded to the Lakers, James only went to the Finals once, which he won easily against the Eastern conf champ. Meanwhile MJ has never lost in the Finals.
LeBron missing the Finals and losing only shows how good his era is/how little help he received. Pippen never lost in the Finals either. I guess he's the GOAT too.
Lebron has never been traded. He always switched when he had a free agency window. Still, that only proves how terrible he really was at winning even when he hand picked his teams.
@@RazoJ20 Teams win championships, not players.
MJ literally made the playoffs 3 times with a negative record so what’s that saying about MJ competition ?
@@Zion122 teams play for championships but star players win it for them. Mavericks and Dirk are prime example #1.
This man works for Skip and undisputed 😂😂😂😂
No he don’t, he’s just telling you stuff you didn’t want to hear.
Excellent video 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾! The WWE style push to have LeBron as the GOAT definitely doesn't fool most of us!!!
As great as LBJ is, he is probably not even 2nd or 3rd best all time. There should have never been a comparison between him and MJ, but I guess it makes for a lot of views
The NBA all-stars were not practicing together like the 1984 Olympic team. That is an important fact. The NBA all-star rosters were different each game, so there was no player chemistry.
It's never a debate for many, because LBJ lost his first finals stint, formed a super team in Miami with Wade and Bosh and lost again in the NBA Finals to an under dog Mavericks while getting outplayed by Jayson f$cking Terry. A GOAT candidate should never have that kind of failure in his resume.
These string of events disqualified LBJ in the GOAT conversation against MJ. MJ never fell short when the team he was leading got to the highest level, the NBA Finals.
In my eyes, For LBJ to get a chance, he needs a time machine, undo these first two losses. Then I will admit that he has a case even though he still lost four times. He then now has 6 NBA Championships equalling MJs.
Nothing to debate....facts...over hype...
MJ is the greatest NBA player ever.. Lebron is king of longevity, he's played 100 years but has only managed to win 3 championships and a bubble ring.
James is a crybaby! Can u imagine him going against those old Detroit or Knicks teams lol. Im a die hard Det fan and i hated MJ but there is no debate! Also, James leaving to form a super team in Miami made me sick! None of the okd greats wouldve ever done that!
I have Lebron #5 all time, but honestly It’s mostly because I feel pressured to do so. I’d have him somewhere between 6 and 10 if I weren’t thinking about the Mob of indoctrinated Lebron fans.
This era of sports media. Is delusional at best. I've been involved in sports. Sense a young child. I've closely watched both careers. It's really nowhere near close. MJ did more. In less time. Then he also had less than stellar talent. On his teams. Keep in mind. In a way more physical era. So in my opinion. People can gtfoh with LeBron James G.O.A.T Talk!!!
Dman that was a beat down
Lebron is a bagless layup merchant
Also LeBron was scared doing dunk contests didn't want to do them cause if he failed would have been embarassed.
Debate? Lol, it’s for views. There’s no debate. MJ is goat. I’m not even a Jordan fan. I hate him for beating my Pistons.
The reason why Bird is not at the top of any statistics is because Bird would come out of games when the Celtics had secured the win. However, Jordan was forced to play as much as possible because the Bulls were not good until the very late 80s. That allowed Jordan to build up stats.
Bron had his chance but the flopping, the crying, the blaming, the excuses, the trades, the firing of coaches, the self proclaiming goat and the losing etc etc etc took him out of the debate for me. He's a all time great for sure bur most definitely not the Greatest Of All Time!!
Lebronze never even passed up Kobe. 🤦🏻
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is like the Rosetta Stone of knowledge. It’s abundantly clear who is the G.O.A.T. Well done.
Use Basketball Metrics - This is what truly measure performance. That is the objective metric and with that - the below is not even an all inclusive list of Objective Metrics...
1st off - winning titles is a team accomplishment and you must have and be on a SQUAD ....to win a NBA Championship
Jordan played with Horace Grant - #19 all time in Offensive Rebounds for 3 titles....and Dennis Rodman - #4 all time Offensive Rebounds.....The Great Pat Riley once accurately said NO REBOUNDS - NO RINGS....MJ had these ELITE All Time great guys getting the Bulls extra possessions - #4 and #19 was and is now their ALL TIME OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING RANKING.....he also had Steve Kerr WHO IS #1 ALL TIME with the highest shooting % from 3 THAT'S ALL TIME....and BJ Armstrong also top 13 ALL TIME SHOOTING % FROM 3.....Hodges and Paxson.....ELITE FLOOR SPACING.....Coaching and Pippen.....To sum up the team Jordan was on....they won 50+ games after his first retirement - If Lebron joined a 50+ win team - What do you think would happen? Continuity matters....it is easy to stay with a SUPER TEAM.....that's what that was - a well put together SUPER SQUAD....than to bust it up and win with different guys and coaches and systems and cities......that is my opinion but based on those teammates and coach [Phil Jackson] that he has
But now back to BASKETBALL OBJECTIVE METRICS - and I won't even list them all - BUT JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE A POINT:
LEBRON
#1 ALL TIME LEADING SCORER - PLAYOFFS AND REGULAR SEASON...and that's with him being on the Lakers and not making deep runs and even missing playoffs.
ONLY PLAYER WITH A TRIPLE QUINTUPLE IN NBA HISTORY [40000 points, 11,000+ rebounds AND 11,000+ assists]
no other player has 28,000, 8,000 and 8,000
Lebron is still sprinting up and down the court - Year 21 - constantly being described as BEST TRANSITION PLAYER ALL TIME
#4 ALL TIME IN REGULAR SEASON ASSISTS [and probably will pass Chris Paul to be #3 all time in regular season career assists]
ALL TIME LEADER IN PLAYOFFS IN ASSISTS, STEALS, GAMES WON, SERIES WON
8 STRAIGHT FINALS APPEARANCES WITH TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS [Miami Heat & Cleveland Cavaliers]
3 NBA TITLES WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....3 FINALS MVPS WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....
Different Sidekicks, Coaches, and Rosters...3 DIFFERENT OWNERS
MOST NBA ALL STAR VOTES [folks don't realize this - but by tens of millions - not close]
MOST ALL STAR APPEARANCES
MOST ALL NBAs......
and
MOST TOP 5 FINISHES IN NBA MVP VOTINGS
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS AVG 25 PPG.....[not close .....LBJ 20....Durant maybe 2nd at 12]
MOST NBA PLAYER OF MONTH ALL TIME [not close]
MOST NBA PLAER OF WEEK ALL TIME [not close]
MOST CONSECUTIVE GAMES SCORING 10 PPG [lebron well over 1200 games - Jordan 2nd at 880 or so - not close]
MOST COMBINED MINUTES PLAYED ALL TIME [LEBRON AROUND 68000......everyone else washed and done by now - LBJ Still Playing Year 21 and heading into Year 22 - Again Not Close]
HAS A TON OF YOUNGEST TO NBA RECORDS....meaning was in NBA before Jordan and other All Time greats
and was playing at a Great Level at age 18
and
HAS A TON OF OLDEST TO NBA RECORDS.....meaning Lebron was and is still in the NBA after Jordan and other greats retired and playing at a Great Level beyond when others were washed up or retired
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS CHASE DOWN BLOCK - WHAT PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS "THE BLOCK" WHAT GAME, AND PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
yeah right - Cavs - Warriors Game 7 -- LBJ and Igadola
LEBRON HAS 54 PLAYOFF GAMES WHERE HE LED HIS TEAM IN POINTS, REBOUNDS AND ASSISTS - NBA RECORD
Nikola Jokic just passed Larry Bird and is 2nd All Time with 15 [AGAIN NOT CLOSE]
THERE ARE LIKE 30 MORE OF THESE I CAN TYPE.....but can't and won't
Our kids kids won't understand this video and the comments in this thread or the other haters in the media that has this MJ bias.....
By basketball metrics it is clearly LBJ
WE WERE ALL WITNESSES!
stop hatin!
The Goat Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Bird , Olajuwon , Majic and every one else
Can't argue with that but I would throw Kobe Bryant in there somewhere though! But you are dead on it!
It’s all fake. We know Jordan the best
Anyone doing anything for 21 years better have a lot to show for it. By the way, no one ever mentions LeBronda spending a million dollars a year on his body whatever that means.
It's called using a little money because he knows he's. Earned millions for his body. U idiot yes! That's was called RESPONSIBLE ATTITUDE
Excellent presentation.
"Weaknesses and Meltdowns" alone ends the debate if there ever was one to begin with.
When comparing a players accomplishments during their first nine seasons, Bird dominates every player including Jordan. Bird suffered a season-ending injury during his 10th season which eventually ended his career. He was not the same after that. Bird also did that during the 80s, the best decade of the NBA.
MJ ..KOBE ...LBJ that's how it should be
Very professional video, sums up all the important topics
It's MJ and Kobe
We all know, if you would see the guy in the red taking the defensive stance, all ready and focused, you would shit yourself.
AND…he played with waaaaaay more defense on him, he didn’t whine, he didn’t flop and didn’t blame others..!!!
Bron ain’t even better than Bird. Bird > Lebron
95' has the 3 point-line shortened, so the 3pt% there is not really indicative of anything. But I never realized Jordan's 3pt% was so good when he actually tries to take those shots, especially later on into his career. The same thing we see with Lebron, with him shooting the 3 ball at ~40% this season due to his declining athleticism.
Hope you watching this Brown!
If Lebron went 4-6 in finals on the Cavs while the Spurs and Warriors were around then he would have a way better argument but he jumped teams too many times. Same reason why we don’t consider Kevin Durant better than Curry or Lebron
Its not a debate. One is tbe goat. Then there is the rest. Michael Jordan is the goat. I witnessed that era and this one.
Undefeated in the finals Versus got swept 2X in the finals
I consider the Jordan the goat but looking at your arguments more than half of them are either really bad or just wrong.
The reason this is a problem is because it just gives lebron glazers a better argument because they can deconstruct the bad arguments
Maybe I heard you wrong or didn't understand how you meant it but as I heard it on your audio here and you have Larry LEGEND as just top 10 ???
There never was, nor should be, a debate. MJ was magic to watch. I’m grateful I could witness his once in a lifetime greatness.
At 21:57, you said "the heat were swept by the spurs in 2007". Um... that was the cavs, but ok.
It’s zero debate!
The real goat mj...lebron groat stack teams,trade team mates,load management + adam silver
When the next goat comes along it will be obvious. They will be THAT good. Everybody will see it. If there’s any room for a “debate” they aren’t the goat. Simple as that.
It never had a debate mj is d goat he did more in less time
What debate??!!! You mean the LeFraud gossips! 🤣🤣🤣
This is an argument rooted in math and science, not on mere opinion or imagination. Now beat that. Besides, MJ was the reason why NBA went global prominence as a sport and culture.
Yelp and that's not even including dunk contest titles or all star game victories.
This has never actually been a debate. Jordan is clearly the GOAT.
Once Denver knocks LA out that will be 4 outta 6 years with LA lebron didn't get past the first rd of playoffs..
From the beginning of your video you demonstrated your BIAS. I am an MJ fan but from minute 3, I cut off the video off as i didnt learn ANYTHING NEW. SMH
Dude its not bias its just a joke to compare Lebron to Jordan you dont have to be bias to understand that Jordan is in another stratosphere than Lebron and MJ aint the only one
MJ is The Goat, because he didnt lose to Jason Terry!
Use Basketball Metrics - This is what truly measure performance. That is the objective metric and with that - the below is not even an all inclusive list of Objective Metrics...
1st off - winning titles is a team accomplishment and you must have and be on a SQUAD ....to win a NBA Championship
Jordan played with Horace Grant - #19 all time in Offensive Rebounds for 3 titles....and Dennis Rodman - #4 all time Offensive Rebounds.....The Great Pat Riley once accurately said NO REBOUNDS - NO RINGS....MJ had these ELITE All Time great guys getting the Bulls extra possessions - #4 and #19 was and is now their ALL TIME OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING RANKING.....he also had Steve Kerr WHO IS #1 ALL TIME with the highest shooting % from 3 THAT'S ALL TIME....and BJ Armstrong also top 13 ALL TIME SHOOTING % FROM 3.....Hodges and Paxson.....ELITE FLOOR SPACING.....Coaching and Pippen.....To sum up the team Jordan was on....they won 50+ games after his first retirement - If Lebron joined a 50+ win team - What do you think would happen? Continuity matters....it is easy to stay with a SUPER TEAM.....that's what that was - a well put together SUPER SQUAD....than to bust it up and win with different guys and coaches and systems and cities......that is my opinion but based on those teammates and coach [Phil Jackson] that he has
But now back to BASKETBALL OBJECTIVE METRICS - and I won't even list them all - BUT JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE A POINT:
LEBRON
#1 ALL TIME LEADING SCORER - PLAYOFFS AND REGULAR SEASON...and that's with him being on the Lakers and not making deep runs and even missing playoffs.
ONLY PLAYER WITH A TRIPLE QUINTUPLE IN NBA HISTORY [40000 points, 11,000+ rebounds AND 11,000+ assists]
no other player has 28,000, 8,000 and 8,000
Lebron is still sprinting up and down the court - Year 21 - constantly being described as BEST TRANSITION PLAYER ALL TIME
#4 ALL TIME IN REGULAR SEASON ASSISTS [and probably will pass Chris Paul to be #3 all time in regular season career assists]
ALL TIME LEADER IN PLAYOFFS IN ASSISTS, STEALS, GAMES WON, SERIES WON
8 STRAIGHT FINALS APPEARANCES WITH TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS [Miami Heat & Cleveland Cavaliers]
3 NBA TITLES WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....3 FINALS MVPS WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS....
Different Sidekicks, Coaches, and Rosters...3 DIFFERENT OWNERS
MOST NBA ALL STAR VOTES [folks don't realize this - but by tens of millions - not close]
MOST ALL STAR APPEARANCES
MOST ALL NBAs......
and
MOST TOP 5 FINISHES IN NBA MVP VOTINGS
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS AVG 25 PPG.....[not close .....LBJ 20....Durant maybe 2nd at 12]
MOST NBA PLAYER OF MONTH ALL TIME [not close]
MOST NBA PLAER OF WEEK ALL TIME [not close]
MOST CONSECUTIVE GAMES SCORING 10 PPG [lebron well over 1200 games - Jordan 2nd at 880 or so - not close]
MOST COMBINED MINUTES PLAYED ALL TIME [LEBRON AROUND 68000......everyone else washed and done by now - LBJ Still Playing Year 21 and heading into Year 22 - Again Not Close]
HAS A TON OF YOUNGEST TO NBA RECORDS....meaning was in NBA before Jordan and other All Time greats
and was playing at a Great Level at age 18
and
HAS A TON OF OLDEST TO NBA RECORDS.....meaning Lebron was and is still in the NBA after Jordan and other greats retired and playing at a Great Level beyond when others were washed up or retired
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS CHASE DOWN BLOCK - WHAT PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS "THE BLOCK" WHAT GAME, AND PLAYER DO YOU THINK OF????
yeah right - Cavs - Warriors Game 7 -- LBJ and Igadola
LEBRON HAS 54 PLAYOFF GAMES WHERE HE LED HIS TEAM IN POINTS, REBOUNDS AND ASSISTS - NBA RECORD
Nikola Jokic just passed Larry Bird and is 2nd All Time with 15 [AGAIN NOT CLOSE]
THERE ARE LIKE 30 MORE OF THESE I CAN TYPE.....but can't and won't
Our kids kids won't understand this video and the comments in this thread or the other haters in the media that has this MJ bias.....
By basketball metrics it is clearly LBJ
WE WERE ALL WITNESSES!
stop hatin!
@@OfficiallyjaystickKeep pasting that for another 20 years and MJ will still be the GOAT, the true 23.
All of those players were unique concerning their talents and it will not always be fair to choose the greatest out of this group.
I can say this I'm a 61 year old basketball fan I've watched MJ and lebron and everybody else play. I can tell you this MJ is the goat hands down a true rip your heart out wants the ball in his hands makes everybody better never gave up champion. The true goat who never blames anybody gets the job done a true warrior the guy that guy who you always want taking that last shot so sorry lebron your good yes yes but at the end of the day you would never hear MJ say it's just basketball just basketball wow when your down three games ready to get swept back to back you will never match mjs heart will to win so bottom line. Only one goat. MJ. Period period period 😊
The goat debate is not a debate of statistics but of favoritism and popular belief. It really amazes me how people can argue another man’s accomplishments but don’t even put the same energy into improving their own lives 🤦🏽♂️. Debating over another person’s value that doesn’t directly impact your own is such a broke trait.
LeBron is Not top 10.....STOP THIS INSANITY OF COMPARING HIM TO JORDAN........!!!!!
THANK YOU!! MJ is the 🐐