Not sure HOW to hit flat, kick, or slice serves? These RUclips lessons will help: How To Shape Your Serve - ruclips.net/video/w_hpouxLHqk/видео.html 3 Unstoppable Kick Serve Tips - ruclips.net/video/anF9ZtSFZI4/видео.html Second Serve Success - Spin vs Flat - ruclips.net/video/Kafw41O6c0Q/видео.html I hope these lessons are a HUGE help to your game! Thanks so much for watching and supporting this channel. We couldn’t keep making these free lessons without you.
Great serve strategy tips. I discovered my tall friend had no trouble handling my kick serve, so I switched over to flat serves and slice serves, which led to more unforced errors.
The pen not sticking is actually a really good lesson for this topic. You tried to stickit because that "normally" works, but you quickly decided that pen doesn't and you put it down. You did not repeatedly try to make it stick and disrupt the video. I can't tell you how many people I have played who decide to stick with a serve that is just not working ( less than 10% success) and just end up giving away their service games. Great video once again!
One crucial 1st Serve Pattern that I always take note of is whether even my best flat serve keeps coming back (i.e., my opponent is returning especially well). If that's the case, I start hitting my "2nd" serve first since: 1) There's little chance of getting a free point even if I do put the flat serve in play (i.e., I shouldn't take additional risk if there's no reward); 2) I greatly reduce my chances of double faulting since I'm probably going to put the first serve in; 3) If my opponent gets used to seeing all spin serves, s/he may be surprised when I try to sneak in the occasional flat serve on a crucial point. Regarding 2nd serves, I always try to hit a hard spinner to the center of the box. While I'm not good enough to consistently hit the center, I am good enough to keep it in the box if I'm aiming for the center. That said, I don't think it's the random left/right movement that makes me successful -- I think it's the pace and high bounce that generally makes the serve safe from attack. IMHO, that is the key objective for the 2nd serve -- have a serve that you can consistently get in that won't be attacked. If you have that, you don't need other options -- you're just trying to safely start the point, not win the point. Most Exhausting Player's slice serve is a good example of something that seems fairly easy to implement -- a medium pace slice that stays low -- but which rarely gets attacked. He uses that for his first serve, too, so he basically never double faults.
I play at the 3.0-3.5 level and for me, there’s hardly any reason to go big for an ace. I’ll start the match with more flat serves just so my opponent can see it. After we settle in I will start using a slice/ kick serve as my first. At my level, all of my opponents struggle with slow pace and spin. If I don’t pinpoint my flat serve, it comes back fast and deep. Brad Gilbert// MEP are my idols.
I totally agree to every statement, but it's quite a journey to arrive there. What's really coming to my mind is a mate I am sort of mentoring and he tends to be so much weaker in matches than in drill sessions. Part of it is his too early quitting from competing and believing in himself, but part of it is also his serve (and return). Regarding serve, due to consistency he prefers to hit relatively slow kick serves to my forehand or to the middle. I really love to return these serves and that creates so much pressure on his serve games that he loses more and more trust in his serve during a match and after trailing 4 - 0 or something, I know he won't get back to a competitive mindset and just transforms into garbage time kind of effort. If he added some speed and tried hitting kick serves to my backhand, everything would shift from being a participant to being a contender.
At what level should players start thinking of the difference between slice and kick? I feel tennis coaching in general gets this question wrong. Your spin serve lesson to a woman two days ago was excellent. You had her hitting heavy spin with what is normally taught as the kick serve racket path. Was it slice, was it kick? who cares? If she keeps working on it, she will have a spin serve weapon all the way through 4.0-4.5 tennis. If she gets even better, she may start playing with the subtle changes in spin angles. Most tennis gurus talk of slice and kick as two completely different serves, with different actions, racket paths and different imparted spins. The differences at club level are much more subtle. You had the right approach two days ago. What do you think?
I've begun to see that the slice serve is merely the kick serve turned on its side. Depending on ball placement and swing path, one could get either or something in between. Ian made a myth buster clip that debunked "carving the slice serve" which helped me see that.
A slice serve and a TRUE kick serve are two ENTIRELY different strokes. The toss, the side of the ball you are striking, the follow through. For a right hander, for a slice the toss is out in front, you come across the right side of the ball and follow through on the left. For a kick serve, the toss is closer to the head, you are striking the left side of the ball and follow through on the right. Sometimes players will hit a serve where the toss is closer to the head and they come more under the ball, sometimes called a topspin serve, and think they are hitting a kick serve but no so. My "two cents worth" Jawad. :)
@@georgebasham2279 Good points. My point of reference is Jawad's question: "Was it slice, was it kick?" Ian's clip debunking "carving" the slice serve, (ruclips.net/video/Dya6XtlbV7Q/видео.html ) taught me that the orientation of the string face determines the direction of the ball and the swing path imparts the spin. Thinking aloud here largely for my benefit: if serving a slice right handed to the T on the deuce side, I need the string face to point to the T and I'd want a left-to-right swing path, with follow through continuing to the right and then to my left as the racquet head drops below waist level. If I wanted a little more pace on the ball, I'd "brush" or "skin" the ball less and have the strings contact the ball more directly, with follow through more into the court, and then to my left as the racquet drops. Still thinking aloud, with a kick/topspin serve, I agree with the different placement for the ball toss; the string face orients depending on how far into the court one wishes the ball to land, the strings "brush" from the lower left aspect of the ball and continue up and to the right (right hander) the swing path. As for the follow through, some players cut it short before the racquet head swings below waist level while others let it flow in a 3/4 circle from impact to where they almost tuck their arms in their gut. . Did I get that right?
@@paddlepower888 Jeff I’m not a coach or even a particularly good tennis player but I have a passion for studying tennis biomechanics and I think your analysis is spot on. 👍
Hi Ian, I watched ur old videos on footwork... I know the importance of it through matches and practice. Would love an updated video and how to bring it into matches more? Thanks :)
I know most people think it’s obvious to keep doing it if it works but for a while I actually made a mistake like that. I was playing a guy and kind of losing and I drop shorted and ran to the net and won the point. I did this again and it worked. But then I thought to myself he would expect it so I gotta mix it up. I lost that next point and many after. I should’ve kept drop shorting it. So keep doing it until they can solidly beat you at it
Nice video as usual and a very polite use of advertising (in too many channels they're just abusing people). In my experience opponents have more problems with slower but heavier kick or low nasty slice than dealing with just a fast but predictable flat serve. And my second serve mantra is: kick on his backhand
Another thing that can be a drawback of the flat serve is exerting a lot of energy. Using kick/slice you can reserve your energy, but big bomb serves is always good to have
LOL I'm with you 100% SOAC. I don't have the coordination to hit a kick serve and with a partially torn rotator cuff my instructor said he will smack me if I even try one. I can rarely get a wicked slice on the ball, been trying to improve that lately, so I basically have one serve, a mild slice. From time-to-time when my arm is loose I'll hit a fast unreturnable serve on the line and people are like "where did that come from?!" but inconsistent at best and to stay in the game I have to force myself to hit relaxed 3/4 paced serves. 30 years of gritting my teeth and muscling my serve every time did a lot of damage to my shoulder. Oh well ... if I only knew then what I know now before I got so frickin' old and broken down. :\
You're missing the underhand slice =) I'm curious what a good percentage would be on that serve; I assume the same as flat serves if it's mostly used on first serves. Great for opponents you've pushed behind the baseline on first serves.... main downside is potential shame....
Very good topic! On topic: as long as your confidence in your kick serve is not almost 100%, so that you can execute it under pressure, use kick serves on all your serves. Off topic: bear in mind if you aim for an international following that baseball is close to non-existent in Europe, so any reference to techniques or mindset of pitchers or closers (or whatever they are) is lost in translation.
So Europeans don't have access to the internet? I'm being tongue in cheek here but the baselball pitcher/tennis server analogy really is a good one. All a person has to do to educate themselves is Google "baseball pitcher."
@@johnnybgood1169 If you want to get a message across by using an analogy, then the analogy must be intuitive to the receiver. Of course anyone can educate themselves about any topic, but that's extra effort. In this case a US viewer will connect to the baseball analogy readily. The extra work required for the average European makes the analogy ineffective in an educational video. In fact, for a European to understand a baseball pitch tactic or mindset, we'd probably have to refer to our tennis intuition.
@@johnnybgood1169 You deliberately don't understand my point. I'm not saying anything should be easy. I'm saying what to do IF you want to make things easy, which is the point of making an analogy. Analogies miss the mark if the point of reference is less familiar than the thing you are explaining. It's funny I should explain this. Let met put it in a conversation: "Coach, I don't know how to serve." "It's easy, it's like pitching in baseball" "But ... I don't know anything about baseball" "Then Google it, you lazy bum." Since you are not making any attempt to understand the point, but focus on parts of the message to ridicule it, I'll assume you are not genuinely interested.
I saw that here: ruclips.net/video/wxlngF-sKSQ/видео.html . Comments cite a grip change to accommodate the swing path to hit the ball between 9 and 11. I'm right-handed, but due to a hand injury I learned to play left-handed. Now that my right hand has mostly recovered I have both a right-hand and left-hand slice serve. Learning left handed wasn't easy, but necessary if I was going to hit. I'm not suggesting you whack your right hand, but you can certainly learn to hit a left-handed slice serve.
Not a whole lot. To me, a lob is a shot with more height, on average. A "moon ball" can be just a little higher than an average rally groundstroke....often with a bunch of topspin to bring it down, but not always. You could look at a "moon ball" is kind of a low "lob", or vise versa, heh. Definitely in the same basic category. Lob is just more defensive.
Just to throw another variable into the equation, what serves should you use more often against better or worse opponents?! I mean if some ones going to beat you once the rally becomes neutral you might as well risk more double faults right! Or do you fear their judgement of your game to the extent that you just play conventionally?! I think this is a real thing even at the pro level. Like you're clearly a better player than MEP but he has far less pressure on him than you do so in pressure situations the complexity of your knowledge could work against you versus a basic approach (yeah I know you can thank me later).
Not sure HOW to hit flat, kick, or slice serves? These RUclips lessons will help:
How To Shape Your Serve - ruclips.net/video/w_hpouxLHqk/видео.html
3 Unstoppable Kick Serve Tips - ruclips.net/video/anF9ZtSFZI4/видео.html
Second Serve Success - Spin vs Flat - ruclips.net/video/Kafw41O6c0Q/видео.html
I hope these lessons are a HUGE help to your game! Thanks so much for watching and supporting this channel. We couldn’t keep making these free lessons without you.
The only video that precisely answers to my query "types of serves tennis" ! RUclips, please show this video !
Next video on which stance to use Platform stance or Pinpoint Serve. Their advantages and disadvantages and how to perform them.
Great idea!
My first tennis coach once said to me : "You are as good as your second serve".
Very true.
That's what my coach says to me now😂
Really true
Great serve strategy tips. I discovered my tall friend had no trouble handling my kick serve, so I switched over to flat serves and slice serves, which led to more unforced errors.
Once again you offer what few other channels do: the when and why, not just the how. Thanks. Always helpful.
The pen not sticking is actually a really good lesson for this topic. You tried to stickit because that "normally" works, but you quickly decided that pen doesn't and you put it down. You did not repeatedly try to make it stick and disrupt the video. I can't tell you how many people I have played who decide to stick with a serve that is just not working ( less than 10% success) and just end up giving away their service games. Great video once again!
One crucial 1st Serve Pattern that I always take note of is whether even my best flat serve keeps coming back (i.e., my opponent is returning especially well). If that's the case, I start hitting my "2nd" serve first since: 1) There's little chance of getting a free point even if I do put the flat serve in play (i.e., I shouldn't take additional risk if there's no reward); 2) I greatly reduce my chances of double faulting since I'm probably going to put the first serve in; 3) If my opponent gets used to seeing all spin serves, s/he may be surprised when I try to sneak in the occasional flat serve on a crucial point.
Regarding 2nd serves, I always try to hit a hard spinner to the center of the box. While I'm not good enough to consistently hit the center, I am good enough to keep it in the box if I'm aiming for the center. That said, I don't think it's the random left/right movement that makes me successful -- I think it's the pace and high bounce that generally makes the serve safe from attack. IMHO, that is the key objective for the 2nd serve -- have a serve that you can consistently get in that won't be attacked. If you have that, you don't need other options -- you're just trying to safely start the point, not win the point. Most Exhausting Player's slice serve is a good example of something that seems fairly easy to implement -- a medium pace slice that stays low -- but which rarely gets attacked. He uses that for his first serve, too, so he basically never double faults.
I play at the 3.0-3.5 level and for me, there’s hardly any reason to go big for an ace. I’ll start the match with more flat serves just so my opponent can see it. After we settle in I will start using a slice/ kick serve as my first. At my level, all of my opponents struggle with slow pace and spin. If I don’t pinpoint my flat serve, it comes back fast and deep. Brad Gilbert// MEP are my idols.
Great that you've figured out what works, Andrew!
I totally agree to every statement, but it's quite a journey to arrive there.
What's really coming to my mind is a mate I am sort of mentoring and he tends to be so much weaker in matches than in drill sessions. Part of it is his too early quitting from competing and believing in himself, but part of it is also his serve (and return).
Regarding serve, due to consistency he prefers to hit relatively slow kick serves to my forehand or to the middle. I really love to return these serves and that creates so much pressure on his serve games that he loses more and more trust in his serve during a match and after trailing 4 - 0 or something, I know he won't get back to a competitive mindset and just transforms into garbage time kind of effort.
If he added some speed and tried hitting kick serves to my backhand, everything would shift from being a participant to being a contender.
Have my first tournament tomorrow so I appreciate this, just wanted to make sure I knew.
At what level should players start thinking of the difference between slice and kick? I feel tennis coaching in general gets this question wrong. Your spin serve lesson to a woman two days ago was excellent. You had her hitting heavy spin with what is normally taught as the kick serve racket path. Was it slice, was it kick? who cares? If she keeps working on it, she will have a spin serve weapon all the way through 4.0-4.5 tennis. If she gets even better, she may start playing with the subtle changes in spin angles. Most tennis gurus talk of slice and kick as two completely different serves, with different actions, racket paths and different imparted spins. The differences at club level are much more subtle. You had the right approach two days ago. What do you think?
I've begun to see that the slice serve is merely the kick serve turned on its side. Depending on ball placement and swing path, one could get either or something in between. Ian made a myth buster clip that debunked "carving the slice serve" which helped me see that.
A slice serve and a TRUE kick serve are two ENTIRELY different strokes. The toss, the side of the ball you are striking, the follow through. For a right hander, for a slice the toss is out in front, you come across the right side of the ball and follow through on the left. For a kick serve, the toss is closer to the head, you are striking the left side of the ball and follow through on the right. Sometimes players will hit a serve where the toss is closer to the head and they come more under the ball, sometimes called a topspin serve, and think they are hitting a kick serve but no so. My "two cents worth" Jawad. :)
@@georgebasham2279 Good points. My point of reference is Jawad's question: "Was it slice, was it kick?"
Ian's clip debunking "carving" the slice serve, (ruclips.net/video/Dya6XtlbV7Q/видео.html ) taught me that the orientation of the string face determines the direction of the ball and the swing path imparts the spin. Thinking aloud here largely for my benefit: if serving a slice right handed to the T on the deuce side, I need the string face to point to the T and I'd want a left-to-right swing path, with follow through continuing to the right and then to my left as the racquet head drops below waist level. If I wanted a little more pace on the ball, I'd "brush" or "skin" the ball less and have the strings contact the ball more directly, with follow through more into the court, and then to my left as the racquet drops.
Still thinking aloud, with a kick/topspin serve, I agree with the different placement for the ball toss; the string face orients depending on how far into the court one wishes the ball to land, the strings "brush" from the lower left aspect of the ball and continue up and to the right (right hander) the swing path. As for the follow through, some players cut it short before the racquet head swings below waist level while others let it flow in a 3/4 circle from impact to where they almost tuck their arms in their gut.
.
Did I get that right?
@@paddlepower888 Jeff I’m not a coach or even a particularly good tennis player but I have a passion for studying tennis biomechanics and I think your analysis is spot on. 👍
Hi Ian, I watched ur old videos on footwork... I know the importance of it through matches and practice. Would love an updated video and how to bring it into matches more? Thanks :)
Kick is my usual go to. Consistent pace and depth make it safe weapon for me
Awesome!!
I know most people think it’s obvious to keep doing it if it works but for a while I actually made a mistake like that. I was playing a guy and kind of losing and I drop shorted and ran to the net and won the point. I did this again and it worked. But then I thought to myself he would expect it so I gotta mix it up. I lost that next point and many after. I should’ve kept drop shorting it. So keep doing it until they can solidly beat you at it
Nice video as usual and a very polite use of advertising (in too many channels they're just abusing people). In my experience opponents have more problems with slower but heavier kick or low nasty slice than dealing with just a fast but predictable flat serve. And my second serve mantra is: kick on his backhand
Love this series on serves!
For serve and volley, do u still go for flat or spin on the first serve? Thanks.
Another thing that can be a drawback of the flat serve is exerting a lot of energy. Using kick/slice you can reserve your energy, but big bomb serves is always good to have
This video will be extremely useful once I have more than one serve -- one day.
LOL I'm with you 100% SOAC. I don't have the coordination to hit a kick serve and with a partially torn rotator cuff my instructor said he will smack me if I even try one. I can rarely get a wicked slice on the ball, been trying to improve that lately, so I basically have one serve, a mild slice. From time-to-time when my arm is loose I'll hit a fast unreturnable serve on the line and people are like "where did that come from?!" but inconsistent at best and to stay in the game I have to force myself to hit relaxed 3/4 paced serves. 30 years of gritting my teeth and muscling my serve every time did a lot of damage to my shoulder. Oh well ... if I only knew then what I know now before I got so frickin' old and broken down. :\
You're missing the underhand slice =) I'm curious what a good percentage would be on that serve; I assume the same as flat serves if it's mostly used on first serves. Great for opponents you've pushed behind the baseline on first serves.... main downside is potential shame....
The Kick and twist serves are difficult to master which I had trouble with.
One you didn’t mention is doubles. As a player, doubles definitely changes how I serve
Picking what is harder for the opponent is the coolest tip of the video!
Very good topic!
On topic: as long as your confidence in your kick serve is not almost 100%, so that you can execute it under pressure, use kick serves on all your serves.
Off topic: bear in mind if you aim for an international following that baseball is close to non-existent in Europe, so any reference to techniques or mindset of pitchers or closers (or whatever they are) is lost in translation.
Great points!
So Europeans don't have access to the internet? I'm being tongue in cheek here but the baselball pitcher/tennis server analogy really is a good one. All a person has to do to educate themselves is Google "baseball pitcher."
@@johnnybgood1169 If you want to get a message across by using an analogy, then the analogy must be intuitive to the receiver. Of course anyone can educate themselves about any topic, but that's extra effort. In this case a US viewer will connect to the baseball analogy readily. The extra work required for the average European makes the analogy ineffective in an educational video. In fact, for a European to understand a baseball pitch tactic or mindset, we'd probably have to refer to our tennis intuition.
@@knotwilg3596 So extra "effort" is out. Got it.
@@johnnybgood1169 You deliberately don't understand my point. I'm not saying anything should be easy. I'm saying what to do IF you want to make things easy, which is the point of making an analogy. Analogies miss the mark if the point of reference is less familiar than the thing you are explaining.
It's funny I should explain this. Let met put it in a conversation:
"Coach, I don't know how to serve."
"It's easy, it's like pitching in baseball"
"But ... I don't know anything about baseball"
"Then Google it, you lazy bum."
Since you are not making any attempt to understand the point, but focus on parts of the message to ridicule it, I'll assume you are not genuinely interested.
I'm sorry but ist't that serve from 2:14 a kick serve?
IT is possible to do a reverse slice serve to make it curve to the right for right handed players but very few can do that.
I saw that here: ruclips.net/video/wxlngF-sKSQ/видео.html . Comments cite a grip change to accommodate the swing path to hit the ball between 9 and 11.
I'm right-handed, but due to a hand injury I learned to play left-handed. Now that my right hand has mostly recovered I have both a right-hand and left-hand slice serve.
Learning left handed wasn't easy, but necessary if I was going to hit. I'm not suggesting you whack your right hand, but you can certainly learn to hit a left-handed slice serve.
Great topic to discuss. This gets neglected at levels below 4.0
Definitely!
Ian, what’s the difference between a moon ball and a lob?
Not a whole lot. To me, a lob is a shot with more height, on average. A "moon ball" can be just a little higher than an average rally groundstroke....often with a bunch of topspin to bring it down, but not always. You could look at a "moon ball" is kind of a low "lob", or vise versa, heh. Definitely in the same basic category. Lob is just more defensive.
@@EssentialTennis Thanks Ian!
I like kick serves cause they are safer and easier
Just to throw another variable into the equation, what serves should you use more often against better or worse opponents?! I mean if some ones going to beat you once the rally becomes neutral you might as well risk more double faults right! Or do you fear their judgement of your game to the extent that you just play conventionally?! I think this is a real thing even at the pro level. Like you're clearly a better player than MEP but he has far less pressure on him than you do so in pressure situations the complexity of your knowledge could work against you versus a basic approach (yeah I know you can thank me later).
Probably the best follow up to this video would be how a player decides their Plus One. 😁
What about the underarm serve? I think it deserve a video, because so many players started using it - and it works!
This is some doo doo crap