I think a couple of the reasons why MGS4 has the weapon bloat here relate to the war economy theme; several of the PMCs featured in the game, along with their opponents use different guns to represent not only differences in power but in economy. the Middle Eastern Rebels for example use the AK-102-a 20 year old rifle by the time the game is set, based on a 50 year old design. It’s not the best gun but it’s what the rebels could afford. Meanwhile the PMC they’re fighting uses the SCAR, a much lighter, more modern, more customizable firearm that’s newer and more advanced(one of the most advanced by the time the game came out). This shows just how much richer the PMCs are and how much the war economy benefits them in a subtle way. The other way I can think of is simply for the bloat’s sake-to show in a gameplay-based microcosm, just how bloated the economy of the game is. The player picks up a lot of guns throughout the game to fuel their purchases in the drebin point store, getting a small reward for circulating the firearms back into the system. Simply by being present and active in the warzone, you are contributing to the war economy, and your reward for it is accessing the spoils of said economy(and feeding back into it once more). This, to me, cements the player in the war economy theme, in all of its bloated glory. Like every soldier present, you contribute, however scantly, to the endless wars and the economy that benefits from those wars. Hideo Kojima is nothing if not meticulous.
In addition: it's just fucking cool to have this many choices that aren't over-specialized. Less isn't always more, and considering how many of these guns are actually real, I don't see an issue with them all being present.
That's a great post...sometimes people care too much about functionality of gameplay mechanics that they ignore the game is telling a story with it's mechanics. Kinda reminds me with how people complain about classic survival horror game controls for being limiting/clunky, when in reality that limitation is meant to communicate to the player that your character is weaker than the enemies and is not Rambo, yet people still demand action game controls for survival horror games just because they "feel" better while fighitng. This is kinda why I don't fully agree with "gameplay is king" mentality" because sometimes it kills creative gameplay in the name of functionality.
Fun fact: that throwing a grenade while lying down on your back or firing while on your back is unique to mgs4, it has never been replicated anywhere else.
I was also turned off when Solid Snake is using the 1911, which is Big Boss's signature handgun. I get why because this game sequels MGS3 but from a lore perspective, he should be using the MK23, a beast of a handgun also in .45 for the "then" modern day SOCOM. MGS1 made a big deal about how Solid Snake liked it. In MGS3, Naked Snake/Big Boss raved about his 1911 because at the time, that's the ONLY handgun the US military would use. Why they decided to give Solid Snake a 1911 as well confuses me. He might LOOK older but he's still a product of contemporary special forces and even though real world Special Forces from the 90s to early 2000s also use 1911s, they also use more modern handguns. I think this choice was a game designer choice from Japan's fascination with classic American weapons. This is why in MGS4, you can unlock the ACTUAL 1911 that Big Boss uses in MGS3
@@pliskinboi TBH, I love the 1911 in real life. I've own 2 BUT...it is NOT my first pick for a modern fighting gun. I have a Glock for that and there IS a Glock in MGS4...but it's the full auto Glock. I wanted a Glock that I can also suppress like the 1911 in this game. Also the flashlights do nothing in this game.
Self restrictions can really spice up mgs4. Not being allied with rebels or not using drebin at all for some simple examples. I feel like the oversaturation of weapons and items kinda suits mgs4s theme of a bloated war economy & a dying franchise.
@@pliskinboi it truly does but kojima does everything for a specific aesthetic. 5 is an unfinished mess but that's what the project was decided to become after hearing konami was giving him the boot. Each metal gear game is basically perfect and I figure it's a Japanese culture thing whenever I don't understand a particular decision made for any of the games. Even Survive was created as a kind of message from kojima.
I feel like that's why mgs2 is my favorite: I love the game and the meta surrounding it. Whereas with the entries after mgs3 didn't have that same harmony
@@pliskinboi I love MGS3 gameplay wise but it really felt like Kojima was lowkey telling everyone to piss off. MGS2 had that amazing ending, all the philosophy and the "This is all a videogame, what matters is what you do with your life" and then in MGS3 and 4 he´s forced to make even more games so he tried to kill them off and the franchise keeps going. My favorite theory about MGS4 is the take that Kojima is trying to show you what happens to long running franchises if you keep pestering the dev/director/writer to keep going. Messed up characters, messed up mechanics, Snake is literally old and due to badly explained reasons (like bad tv shows) and even straight faced fanservice like that scene with Eva
My first run of MGS4 a few years ago I decided to use the tranq pistol very sparingly, so I performed a lot of hiding in plain sight by fighting alongside the militia, which would often mean trying to use their guns where suitable.
“The only reason to use a gun is because you want to.” Yea, it’s a sandbox game, my guy. I think the bigger problem with MGS4 is the Drebin system giving you basically infinite ammo.
This video made me realize I enjoy stealth and no lethal playtroughs so much that I've never used most of this guns at all, maybe I will try to go for a more agressive run next time I replay the series
You and me both, my friend. I've gone non-lethal for so damn long now, I don't even remember doing great big lethal runs. Not being stealthy and non-lethal just feels. Wrong.
Not only is there no reason to use 90% of the weapons in the game. The game is too short to even care about the shop system. Every time you pick up a weapon that you have full ammo for, it's automatically sold for Drebin points. When playing on the hardest difficulty. You cannot buy tranquilizer rounds. So if you are going to a non lethal play through. The only time you'll use the shop, is for lethal ammo for non manned machines that won't count as kills when you destroy them. Not enough was done with the psyche meter either, they should have left in eating animals for stamina. Or at least the surgery menu from snake eater. But that's another issue all together. Where MGS4 lacked in gameplay. It made up for in HOURS of cutscenes. Whereas MGS5 had an unfinished story mode but fantastically tight gameplay mechanics and open ended missions that made up for the lack of story. MGS4 has a lot of soul, but its drowned out by the cutscenes. The first two acts are great. The third act is annoying and slow. The fourth act is just there for nostalgia, and the 5th act has maybe ten minutes of gameplay before the final boss and almost an hour of straight cutscenes. MGS4 was meant moreso to be a movie. And it suffers as a game because of it.
It's short, but it has alot of reply value. You can literally play in any style and use any tools or weapons that you want and that makes it worth it on multiple playthroughs...also it's fun messing around with the AI. You can skip the cutscenes on the second playthrough and focus on exploring the posibilities of the gameplay, rather than rushing over to the next checkpoint. I don't see the problem with the "nostalgia" in chapter 4 unless you're not an MGS story fan.
@ClayChoShow All Metal Gear before Snake Eater were pretty much short games. That's why they were accompanied of vr missions games to deepen the gameplay.As it, MGS4 had MGOnline which was great. Overall, I still think that MGS4 is the most accomplished work form Kojima for the MGS saga Even tho it had to be theV if it was not it to be incompleted.
What about the Saiga-12 though? You could also argue, in a battle where you find the shotgun the best solution (say shooting Mantis' dolls), you could have all the variety of shotguns available by switching them out without reload, since fast-reloads (weapon equip x 2) is gone in MGS4.
The thing is, the shotgun you can attach to the M4 in MGS4 ultimately gets replaced by the saiga 12 due to the saiga being a semi automatic shotgun with better capacity. Although I do agree with many of your points, I do disagree about the grenade launcher attachment on the M4. I prefer using one of the few rocket launchers in place of it. The grenade launchers are only good for crowd control type situations, if you really need to hit a Gecko hard, you’d use a rocket launcher type weapon (just my opinion). I also didn’t really mind the 1911 in Snake Eater. Honestly once you beat the game most weapons in Snake Eater end up obsolete compared to the Patriot
It's kind of similar to the gun in a lot of Ghost Recon or Rainbox six games. Variety but now in power scale. In hindsight, if I were to address vaierty of the guns in MGS4, it's lack of choices for customizing the guns that aren't the hero rifle, which is the M4. You can't put a silencer or change the optic on the XM8 or put a red dot on the MP5SD. It's just lacking in those things, but I guess we're spoiled by today's fast pace shooter games
Bro yeah, I played Rainbow Six Vegas which is a really cool game but you are spoiled for choice from the get go. Why would I use the MP5 or the P90 when the MP7 is so much better and is unlocked from the start? Why would I use the M4 or the SCAR-L when the XM8 does exactly the same but better? Something similar happens here, so many guns given to you from the start that you just get whatever works best and go with it. Still can´t believe the M4 is the only one that can get all the cool attachments, even more reason to not use anything else
Weapons have stats in MGS4, they're right there in the menu. Underbarrel grenade launcher on the M4 does less damage than a dedicate grenade launcher, is slower and not as accurate. It's these small details that make difference in MGS4, even though it's absolutely possible to beat the game with only M4. The problem isn't the weapons it's the difficulty
I like that you rate all the guns and talk about all the guns , cause i see gameplays from every metal gear solid and everyone uses only the tranq pistol like its the only weapon in the game
I think the first three mgs games really cater to experimentation with the sandbox. I'm glad I can bring more attention to the weapons as it'd be a shame if no one tried them out
@Lawenda Paszkiewicz Oh i see , maybe iam a little different cause i play mgs 5 and i have a lot of kills , but still when i dont kill anyone like the A++ or S soldiers i rather use cqc , i find it more chalenging and satisfiyng :D
it’s very similar in MGS V, too. you pretty much only use the tranq pistol, the MRS-4 (medium longevity for the suppressor after a few updates) and the tranq sniper rifle because you need to fulton enemy soldiers all the time. ALTHOUGH I must admit that the S-rank in mission is not dependant on how many enemies you kill anymore. there are even points for „tactical kills“ like headshots.
If you see any expert gameplay videos of MGSV, that is not exactly accurate. There ae many ways to play the game and get highter ranks even without having to use weapons.
I believe that the reason for so many guns existing is for you to pick and customize your favorite, much like the MGSV weapon customization you can unlock, and like other experiences where you can customize your character. They really cranked the customization over the series too, letting you wear one of many different camos, to unique clothing especially in PW and V, letting you design custom logos, etc. MGS4 and MGSV especially suffer from poor balancing, where the starting equipment is the best and there's little point to using anything else. I suppose they're there to make sure anyone can make it through the game, but it really does leave a terrible aftertaste not having progressed towards an amazing weapon because it was handed to you at the very start. It also sucks that there's usually a definite best weapon for each scenario, instead of multiple options with their own boons and banes.
I take your point on the operator in MGS4, but they clearly wanted to give Snake in MGS3 a .45 to match the SOCOM and the USP so the period equivalent was the M1911
I'm currently replaying it after 13 years and I felt the exact same way as you about the abundance of guns I wouldn't use unless I did it just to say I did it
Nah, the fact that you have to used DP in MG4 was like wtf in itself. It introduced it right around when crap like that was flooding games.... The massive armory gives the player options, sure some guns might not work in every given situation but that doesn't mean they can't use used after all its just a game!
Kojima had so many weapons in this game because it's the grand finale of Metal Gear Solid. He included just about every weapon that appeared in previous games. More like fanservice than practical/tactical.
@@LeonWick526 Maybe they felt like the G3 would have been a good enough replacement for the PSG1, especially when you consider you're far more likely to find the former in the MGS4's settings. PSG1 is a very rare gun IRL. Same with FAMAS unless the French military is operating nearby. Also, they didn't have to worry about the PS3's hardware limitation when it came to modeling guns, which is the main reason FAMAS was featured in MGS for the PSX.
Also I always use the Scorpion for the runway chase with the Shagohad, shooting the missiles and stuff. But yeah, I used the default tranq gun the whole time in literally every single mgs game
I feel that the point of comparison between the guns makes sense only through familiarity with the subject matter enough to know the names of the bad weapons when only to those who played who naturally don't need to be told on the subject matter.
I am happpy that I discovered your channel even that I am not sure if I would agree with your opinion about mgs4 weapons in the end or not I love how you divided weapons systems in games in general and love that you have more content focused guns in video games and their balancing keep up the good work
There was no reason to use a lot of the items in the mgs series, like the cigs. Although after watching a guy do a speedrun of mgs always using sigs makes me think half the items and weapons are up to our imagination to use definitely agree they have an excess in 4. its nice to have lots of variety if you do want to challenge yourself. edit: also, cool video and nice work, liked and subbed
Well the x25 is a air burst grenade launcher. It detonates before impact so you can hit enemies that are in deep cover. The other guns are there so players could choose a suppressed p90 for playing stealthy and when you are detected pull out the Scar H to bring the hate. Or have the m4 suppressed to attack medium to cqb and the DSR which is 300 Winchester magnum unsurpassed but with a flash hider to attack enemies from long range because if you are far enough they won't here you fire the rifle but the crack of the bullet passing them. M14 is a great DMR but a ok sniper. Each gun is built for a multitude of play styles. You may run out of 5.56 armor for the m4 so switch to a p90 or a scar h because I have plenty of 5.7 or 7.62 ammo. The game was made to chose your play style. Whether you do a no kill stealth run, a stealth run with kills, or go guns blazing. That is what makes the game so great. But I do agree they should have allowed us to put suppressors on all sniper and assault rifles to.
Funnily enough this issue could have been fixed with the inclusion of my favorite controversial game mechanic: WEAPON MALFUNCTIONS!!! With weapon malfunctions the player would've had a reason to use the AK-105, SVD, Mosin and VSS at Shadow Moses as the M4 doesn't work as reliably AK in the cold and the M14 just shits itself in a snow storm (or really any sub-optimal environment). Come to think of it, the mechanic would've fit in really well with the game as Snake's AK jams in the very first cut-scene, as well as a mechanic for an anti-war game.
5:20 There is the VSS you can get on act 2 on the Confinement Facility in case you didn't know with an infinite suppressor with a 3-10X scope who can be a good option. Ps it can also stealth kill Gekos I just tried on the 1st one in the beginning of act 4 and on the 2 on the mine field despite missing shots they didn't spot me same for the one who appear when Octacon try to open the door with MK III
I think this is the type of games made to fit a players preference. Theres a point here where it states that if theres a shotgun attachments for an assault rifle why would it waste space putting a shotgun weapon. And thats the thing, because i myself rather equip a stand alone shotgun than using it as an attachment for another weapon. Same for grenade laucher. The first to appear was the custom barrel attachment for M4, but when i recieve the 6 shot m32 grenade launcher it became my weapon of choise. So, those who like the grenade attachment may used it while those like me equip the M32. So i see no problem with the weapon system here. There are other games where it take you fun hours because it features so many aspects which makes you able to adjust your preferred style
I think the MK17 SCAR-H and M8X were added cause the game came out when the US had a bidde for a new rifle and the those two were the finalists. But in a funny twist neither worked out and they went back to the M4/16/14. As for the Operator use i belive they wanted and older looking gun that would not have an ID lock on it and the SOCOM at the time of the was being fazed out so I think Kojima wanted to keep trends. The Scorpion is best used when you are on the cycle during the chase. It has a fast reload, lazer sight and takes enemies down in one hot while on that cycle and has much better control and range. I think MGS4 had so many firearms cause they had them in the online so figured why not add all the. I stuck with the operator, 22, M4 or SCAR and M14EBR in my backpack, then add the odd ones like P90 for specific situations. I really think they just wanted to give people something to collect that had practice use so they made guns collectable, but given i do full stealth I really ever get to use my guns
@@pliskinboi yeah I actually love the fact that late game guns have more damage and better stats than early game guns, BUT they are more expensive as well. That makes it so you have to be careful with your expenses and think about what items and guns you should bring to the battlefield
so its dps. Saigon can double tap frogs. the hk17 has best damage mid range with the right scope it carries. the rest I think is really for expanded play styles, m4 is kinda a lazy choice imo
I think what you have missed with lethal pistols after mgs3 is that they are cqc complementary weapons. You can use human shield with them you can use them to crowd control enemies. They often make enemy flinch more than assault rifles and you can use that stagger effect to close the gap and go ham with cqc. Also AK and m63 have difference that ak can aim down sights. M63 is more of a close range weapon you use to run trough a crows of people
Your argument about the M4 is exactly why AR variants have become the dominant rifle platform in the west lol It's a highly modular platform that does facilitate the usage of various optics, emitters and accessories. "Why use this other gun when I could just setup the M4 to do it just as well" is the exact question that has made the M4 a mainstay of the US military for so long and why European countries are increasingly adopting the HK416, which is effectively just an AR variant with a gas piston. I get why it's not great from a gameplay standpoint I'm just saying it's true to life at the very least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yea m8 nobody sensible on this earth is gonna argue against the fact that AR platform weapons are superior to most of not all weapons setups out there I'm just ragging on how the games balancing is fucked because if you have one gun that does almost everything why have the 50 others? Sure variety is nice but from a functional standpoint the game is flawed in its balancing af
@@pliskinboi Plus some of the other guns in the game can do the same things as the M4. Most military grade rifles will get suppressors for example, but in MGS4 the M4 does it
I just remembered, you get a 1911 at the beginning, the Operator right? But you have a way to get Big Boss' very own 1911 as an unlockable. Why have two?! You can also unlock The Boss' Patriot, and the Solar Gun from Boktai (best handgun). Apart from all these problems, you must admit the Tanegashima was fun haha
I love bonus weapons and think they are a blast for replay value so I don't count them as ruining the balancing since they are just that: bonuses. You're 100% right on the 1911's though. But don't forget you also have the gsr and race gun which are based off of the 1911 as well. So that's 4 1911's!
I feel it was more of a critic of modern fps games by Kojima,kinda like "yeah you got like 500 different weapons, but they all do the same" like in cod or bf
@@pliskinboi Even then I just think Hideo Kojima just really likes guns. I just liked having a variety of different weapons visually and reading their descriptions, not justifying their existence in game because they are inferior to the M4, but it got me into irl firearms at a young age.
In that regard yea mgs 4 is awesome. I love how the modelling and manual of arms are mostly appropriate to the real life counterparts. I'm just griping about how it negatively impacts mechanics is all.
I think that may be it. I remember one of the trailers seemed to mock the explosion of modern warfare clones on the market, by having it mostly in first person from a PMC's perspective which lead to him getting his ass beat by snake. There were taglines throughout that more or less said "This is MGS, not another modern FPS".
For me COD's weapons 'work' due to the variety of missions in single player. You get to see all these cool guns you've never seen before and it's kinda entertaining. I know Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 had this problem as well. There's just so many guns but what's the point when I can add all these superior attachments to a single weapon and there's virtually no difference between them?
I wanna make it clear just because something may be poorly balanced doesn't mean it's not fun. I too have a lot of fun dicking around with the guns in both cod multiplayer and campaign. *but I do think a reason why zombies is as fun as it is has a little to do with the fact that the weapons are rebalanced in a clear level up way.
RS Vegas still pisses me off, why give me the MP7 from the start? Why give me literally all guns from the start? You play with the best guns and don´t move away from that. MP7/XM8 with MK23 all the way
@@Axl4325 Yea there is literally no reason to change weapons other than out of curiosity Weapons like snipers and shotguns are useless and the pistol may as well not exist
I think snake doesnt use a socom in mgs4 until he finds another at shadow moses is because he gave it to raiden in bigshell which raiden kept (if you look at raidens leg you can see he has a holster with the mk23) and snake at the time replaced it with a usp9 -that he stole from olga which was much more practical and light weight. He probably lost it when he was captured with raiden on arsenal gear- along with the m9. Anyway, I haaate that in mgs4 when i equip the socom and a cutscene plays, it replaces the gun snake is holding with the operator!!!!
I think the MGS series was similar in how the Resident Evil series changed from RE5 to 6. Once it became a 3rd person shooter, where you can move while aiming your gun and shooting, that changes the balance of the game. Sure you can technically shoot guns while running around in MGS1 to 3 but not like 4 which became an over the shoulder 3rd person shooter and because you, as the player, don't feel the weight of each gun, the M14 really does the job of the M4 a lot better even in 3rd person mode.
Mgs4 Is not a competitive game you don’t always have to be hyper efficient, maybe I just wanna use the XM8 because I like how it looks. Honestly this kind of thinking optimises the fun out of a game.
Halo CE, Resident Evil 4 (2023), fallout new vegas. Each of those games have good balancing. I don't like or care about competitive games. I like good balancing for being fair and fun. Sure you can use the XM8 because it does look cool. But then have fun triggering alerts, having enemies soak up mag after mag, and generally having the game punish you for it.
@@pliskinboi Metal Gear “Punishes” you for fighting in general, but it still lets you do it. Halo is the only real example of what you’re talking about on that list, mainly because its balanced for multiplayer. New vegas has loads interesting weapons that aren’t always the most efficient choice, its realistic. At the end of the day having a lot of verity in the arsenal doesn’t detract for the experience at all, you can choose not to use them.
@@pliskinboi Well no campaign is balanced, the player always has massive advantages, you’re talking about challenge. Boss difficulty is hard no matter what gun you use. I just don’t see how ditching most the weapons on it’s own would some how make the game better, there not forcing you to use every weapon.
I do love these takes about MGS4- but man, I just like the way MGS4 dared to have as many guns as it did. YOU get to pick and choose the type of stuff Snake will use. YOU can go guns blazing or quiet no matter what! I agree with you on the 1911 main sidearm thing- yes absolutely, it’s silly, but idk, most MGS games are kinda silly. The MGS3 point especially makes sense to me, tbh. i always opt for the MK22 for stealth, 1911 suppressed to aim for legs n joints to slow enemies down so I can cqc them, and/or a rifle of some kind to ensure my ass doesn’t get caught a mile away- and it’s almost always the XM16E1 I pick because of burst/single fire options and its suppress-able, unlike an AK, which I only switch to if I’ve been caught and can afford to take a few guards out, or (if I’m inside) I stick to the m37 or the 1911/CQC combo.
Don't forget about how good it feels to use. In regards to handguns (based on damage and capacity) it's easily the best choice. If only we could suppress it.
MK2 tranq gun M82 50 cal rifle P90 smg Everything else is either completely useless or is used once and then gets outclassed once you have the weapons above
This game really needed a Subsistence style update that also changes the weapon balance. Tranq even on Extreme is so damn good you don’t feel incentivized to use anything else.
Something that really bugs me about 4 is that it didn't bring back the PSG1T from MGS2, aka the best sniper in the series. Glad 5 brought it back, even though that doesn't make much sense timeline wise.
Actually the psg1 was developed in the 1970s. V takes place in 84, also all the guns are real guns just with gibberish names. The only gun that isn't real as far as I remember is the g44 which looks like a famas, g11, and a few other guns mashed together.
I totally understand and agree with what you're saying here... however, as someone who is playing through all the metal gear series for the first time, after having played through MG1/2 and MGS1/2/3 and now 4, it felt great to just get a couple badass weapons from the very start and just all out the whole playthrough.
Loved the video, I never played MGS 4 nor am I that much a MGS fan. But even so, your study of game design systems throughout these games are really instructing ! Thank you
I'm glad you enjoyed. While metal gear tends to make up a bulk of my channels content, I spend a lot of time talking about other games and their weapons balancing. I did one on Red Dead Redemption 2 a while back you might enjoy!
hell the 50 cal you can buy in mgs4 trivializes the geckos honestly better than the rail gun (only played on big boss hard so might be different on lower difficulties)
I think its because the war economy thing... just to show us that things are really across the board... and its not just an action game, most of the times you have to be stealth so it kinda make you feel frustraded but that is totally intentional I bealive.. again cause of the exaggerated war economy thing
Couldn't the war economy be expressed through a level up system, further promoting the thematic undertones by showing how the best equipment is given to the highest bidder?
1911 master race. That gun transcends past, present and future. It only make sense for a battle hardened super soldier like Snake to come to his senses and realize that it's the best of the best, regardless of caliber. Would've loved to have seen MGS4 include a system like MGS5 where you could upgrade specific weapon systems and deviate the upgrade trees to different calibers and setups. The 9x19 AP version of the AM D114 goes straight through helmets for a one shot headshot. Extremely useful and fun which is the most important aspect of any game in my opinion. That being said I will agree that the M4 Custom and M14EBR are hands down the best weapons to use in MGS4. I'd say a good runner up for Big Boss Extreme is the Mosin garbage rod.
I'd like to think a hardened super soldier would be wise enough to choose a gun that wouldn't choke up easily in harsh environments. Can you suppress the mosin in game?
I mean, the inrangetv mud test the 1911 ran better than most rifles and functioned essentially unhampered. So does that mean everyone should run around with 1911s instead of rifles? The reality is if you're forced to use your pistol in real life in a military situation, you're fucked.
Fuddposting, the 1911 has over a century of improvement by other handguns. I'd quite happily take the reliability and high performance of an HK weapon than a 1911 still trying to be relevant. Retains .45, higher mag capacity, higher accuracy, much better made and reliable, looks cool as shit. Gains in all directions.
@@NeverKetamine HK pistols were a fad. Just look at their relevance now. I have personal love for the USP line but don’t kid yourself, nobody outside of 90’s nostalgia babies and Metal Gear fans are remotely interested in anything coming from that company’s pistol lineup. That gun in particular is their pinnacle in design philosophy and they let it fall by the wayside with zero modernizations in optics, standardized 1913 rail or updated controls for western consumers. The 1911 is still dominant in shooting sports and will always find a spot at the top of performance due to its amazing trigger characteristics. The influx of 5 million 2011’s on the market just further proves my point. Ergonomics and performance unmatched. Still own a USP9 Tactical and even carried a USP9C for a couple of years before I sold it.
In MGS3, the Scorpion was the only weapon with a laser (aside from the EZ gun), making hipfiring it more of a feasible tactic for firefights. It was great for situations where you would want to be firing accurately fast, and also made it easier to hit targets while running without having to stop and aim. Granted, I'm taking this mostly from my experiences in Subsistance's multiplayer; single player may have been slightly different.
I've never gotten to play the subsistence multiplayer. I'm so jealous of you. Yes, I'm talking specifically in single player where those benefits do ring true but the ammo capacity, the fact that you already have most of the other weapons that do spread and accuracy better, and that you get it near the end of the game making the places you can use it extremely limited all add up to the gun not really having a place in the game
G’day from down under! I just want to say I really love this video and you’ve got a new subscriber! I never realised how bad the gun system actually was in MGS4. My main play throughs were non-lethal. However, I did tinker around with all the firearms in the game. I personally think there is an over abundance of guns in the game due to the war economy being so prevalent (being one of the games themes). Plus, I think it was just Kojima and team trying to flex on the industry at the time, showing how many guns they could put in and most of them being customisable. Lastly, l think they chose the Springfield Operator 1911 for Old Snake as it correlates the relationship between Big Boss and Snake. Being, the Operator is not the original, but they are very similar in design. Aka a ‘clone’ of the original.
I'm glad you enjoyed! I really wish mgs4's narrative wasn't snake eater centric, the issues for me go way beyond the similarities with the 1911. I think I was a mistake to not but more emphasis on mgs2's story.
@@pliskinboi I’m glad I came across your channel! You have some interesting takes on the MGS series and possible future ideas. Oh dude, MGS4’s story was a mess, but a beautiful and chaotic mess which serviced the fans. MGS2 is my favourite in the series as well, but I think Kojima steered clear of MGS2 due to the unfortunate backlash 😕 Keep up the great videos. I know I have some content to catch up on from you 😎 “You’re pretty good” 👉🏻👉🏻
It's not bad. This guy seems to have too much of a "meta" mind. Yes the m14ebr is the best gun in the game, but the FAL is way sexier. Mgs4 has way more replay value. Plus he complains about the custom 1911, but the socom is obtained in the game in a nostalgic place. If you got the socom right away they would be way less hype then crawling under the truck for shits and giggles only to find a throwback and the sexist pistol ever made.
@@pliskinboi yeah, I guess so. I just remember that there was ammo respawn for the RGB6, so I did stick to it exclusively at that Vamp boss fight. Overall I'd say it is good to have different options for guns, even if some are objectively worse than others, because players can have choices. But at the same time some are meaningless choices. Unlike going non lethal, which has a benefit (depending on the game) and a subjective goal, going crappy lethal vs powerful lethal guns feels just spammy. It's personal, but MGS4 did feel like that for me as well. It would be nice if we had some statistics on how many % of players used X weapon during the game.
I think that can be achieved either through a single purpose or level up system. Multiple guns and options are a good but they should always be balanced well.
"It reminds me of CoD4. Where you have all these generic guns that jhst exist to take up space." Congrats my dude, you figured out Kojima's meta-narrative of 4 about how most shooters at the time generic gunporn games eith very little thought put into their gameplay. All the NPC's fighting each other are basicslly CoD players.
@@pliskinboi Im sorry that you missed the point of the story and that hurts your feelings but it not a legitamate criticism juat because you didn't understand it. Or did you just completely miss the point of Drebin's character? He basically tells you that all the other guns are generic repetative junk with very little variety (Shooters) that exist just to be sold and reused in the mindless system that the Patriots (game developers) have created wheras the M4 (Metal Gear Solid 4) is a fine tuned work of art because there was more thought put into its design than base stats. Your design philosophy for how games "should" work in terms of gunplay is limited and pretentious and runs counter to the themes of MGS4, and I am incredibly thankful not what Kojima did in the game proper and your not gonna convince me you know better than the man who has been pushing the envelope in gaming for decades.
If this game ever gets remastered or remade one of the changes I'd like to see is a revamped shop. Take a cue from Resident Evil 4 and Village and have Drebin set up shop at specific point on the map rather than always be available via menu. Have either the amount of points you earn reduced significantly or increase the price of weapons. Also remove a decent chunk of the repetitive weapon types and have a level up gun system where some better weapons are found on the map and some bought from Drebin at a price that makes you have to work to get them. And the upgrade tier should be like 3-5 weapons per type.
all valid points, no disagreement. ill just add to that my experience which was having an unreasonable amount of fun collecting all 70 guns and trying them all out, looking at all their unique animations and how they look with what attachment
I think its fair to point out that the modularity and customization of firearms at the grunt level was new at the time. While US Socom was familiar with the idea the common grunt was just getting these new weapons. By MGS5 even Cold War Fals and AKMs were being upgraded. Thats probably why the M4 M14 and Scar 17 had more customization. Great video overall.
Former US military brass here. I was a relatively high ranking officer just a few years ago, and I absolutely would choose a good 1911 over Mk23 or the garbage Beretta M9, but I too agree that it is no match for Old Snake. Just with how massive his sneaking suit makes him, it just doesn’t look right.
I never understood the hate the beretta gets. But then again I've never used one outside of it being in pristine condition. I could see how a military hand me down could be rough. Thoughts on the p226, USP, or of course the glock?
@@pliskinboi Main complaints I hear about the M9/92 is that the grip is too chonky for smaller hands and the original location of the safety on the slide was annoying to deal with. During the 90s, a lot of spec ops guys skipped the M9 for 1911 because they preferred its handling, balance, trigger, and the bigger hole that .45 Auto leaves in bodies.
In my ideal world, Extreme in MGS4 (and the rest of the series) would be: no drebin, all enemies have helmets like in Peace Walker, no tranq, and only 1 spare mag of reserve ammo for each weapon
Could the problem be from their I never played it but when I think about it MGS4 gives off a feeling of against in a way, Konami could have forced to make the game towards their successful competitors. Konami asking for a create a class system with weapon attachments. Not to mention, Call of Duty: 4 Modern Warfare released a year prior. I feel as though attachments in MGS where never to crazy suppressor at most. Being Konami they are not the most best managers of their studios as per Kojina Productions history. It's sad to think that Call of Duty has a influence on MGS4 and idk if anyone else has felt the same?
That's a large part of why I always felt the mgs series was held back by Kojima. No matter how much freedom the game gives you, you are held back by how he wants you to play.
@@pliskinboi I understand what you mean. When we think about is a game completely different from other games. And that's one of the aspects that make it special. Besides the undertitle «Tactical Espionage Operations» says it all. It was not mean to be played like COD: running and guns blazing all over the place, but be stealthy and avoid unnecessary conflit. The series were not «held back». It has been like that all the way, since the 1st two Metal Gear games in 8bit gaming systems. «(...), you are held back by how he wants you to play» - Well, in that case, you could say the very same thing about Counter Strike, COD, and all other similar games: you are held back by how the game wants you to play it and you can't play it some other way but violently and killing everything in sight. If the Metal Gear series had the same purpose of most war games, it would have nothing special about it but its story. And it would be easily forgotten like so many other war RPGs have been. Anyway, you still may play it violenty as long you do it in the shortest period of time to achieve an S Rank. I did it several times with different ways in my Speedruns, for instance the: 3rd Episode, C2W, Footprints of Phantoms, Red Brass, etc. As long you execute all Episode's Mission Tasks, you can kill everything you find and still get an S Rank.😉
it’s fun to have a bunch of guns to play with. there’s a bunch of stuff in these games with very little utility, not just the guns. they serve to make the game world feel more alive
I agree it's fun to have variety. My critique is based on judging the games mechanics. While it's totally fine to have something be for the sake of fun I think it's better when it's fun and mechanically sound
@@Phantom-kc9ly I love losing battlefield stealth less than halfway through the game and having it replaced with the worst tailing mission ever, followed up by an albeit pretty good shadow Moses section, ending off with one stealth encounter, a mid boss, and a linear hallway. Oh and did I mention the sandbox is fucked?
Mgs 2 creates a niche for lethal weapons as discussed in prior videos. But yea the tranqtardification of metal gear is very much at the heart of the series sandbox issues.
@Pliskin BOI I always found it fun to aim for no kill runs. Starting with MGS4, it was a bit easier to achieve, but the gameplay loop stuck with me. In every game other than the original, I used the tranq pistol more than any other weapon. I can see how a lot of people didn't have the same mentality though
I'm totally up for a NL Playthrough here and there but I just hate how poorly implemented it is. Like imagine have to use cqc, the gas and handkerchief, and animals to scare guards instead of having the tranq pistol or mosin.
@@pliskinboi your welcome, I can’t fathom how you complained about virtual guns for 20 minutes and tried to pose an argument to something that wasn’t remotely a problem
Variety isn't the issue. It's how lazily they are balanced. If it was a level up system the abundance of weapons would make sense and give a reason to use everything at a given time.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is another stealth game with a bizarre amount of guns with no sense of progression. Possibly even less justified than MGS4 because you're not sneaking through war zones in Blacklist.
Same for MGSV. I know that there are players who just experiment and mess around all day. But for most players there is no point for all these weapon and gear options. And the one thing I do want, a nice Heckler & Koch style SMG for my super sneaky missions - NOPE. But MGS4 is even worse because... well, there's not that much gameplay. In MGSV you can at least run around for hours, free roam requesting airdrops. MGS4 is like 10-20min of gameplay followed by an equally long cutscene.
I like the South America chapter of mgs4 because we actually get more of that battlefield sneaking gameplay and it's awesome. Been meaning to do a video on five so I might throw that up within the foreseeable future.
As someone who played through MGS4 experimenting with different guns, I agree with this video and this is an issue I thought about a lot. But even then, there are some interesting cases: There are weapons with fully integrated suppressors in them, like PSS and VSS, which gives you a cool QOL feeling since you’ll never need to open the menu to buy suppressors for them. Even though it’s only a small benefit, I did enjoy using them, especially the PSS. There were lots of times I had to shoot an enemy twice in the head to kill them with the PSS (due to the quick damage fall off) but still, it was my favorite pistol. Also, screw that crappy Operator, I really hate how some cutscenes put that gun back into your inventory. For shotguns, there is the Saiga12, which is automatic, and the Twin Barrel which is single handed. So technically both of these can fill a role that the Masterkey under the M4 can’t. But the issue is that you don’t have a good reason to use them. They are really far from being the best method of dealing damage to any boss and you just put yourself in danger by sticking to them, so why even go beyond using the masterkey? Last thing, there’s the M82A2 anti matter rifle which you can only get by buying from the shop and I would say it’s better than the Rail Gun, which you get after you beat Crying Wolf. I don’t know if that really matters but still, I enjoyed using that weapon and it is the best sniper (stat wise) while having the clear disadvantage of not being able to use a suppressor.
I think a problem with weapon choices is MGS1 to 3 were NOT shooter games, so the small pool of weapons makes more sense. Peace Walker was a game made after MGS4 and you can tell from the way Big Boss now handles his guns very similar to how Solid Snake does. I you pay attention, for some reason in MGS4, when Snake reloads a gun and there's still a round in the chamber, he ejects it when loading a fresh mag...even though there's no fucking reason for him to do that other than the game designers thought it was cool but Big Boss in MGS3 ever did that. Pay attention to Solid Snake's reload animation of the M4 to Big Boss's reload of his M16. They are EXACTLY the same thing. That alone breaks character continuity for Big Boss by them lazily using MGS4 reload animations to cut time. Because in MGS3 when you see in first person when Bog Boss reloads his M16, he slaps it after reloading a new magazine, a common practice for soldiers.
You have to remember, that MGS is made in Japan - by japanese people. They have it in their constitution to not have an army, not even for defensive purposes, something like the inclusion of a bolt-catch-slap might be something they learnt for MGS3, but excluded for Peace Walker JUST BECAUSE they forgot. Maybe they also wanted to make it a bit more uniform... since ALL soldiers use the same weapon equally. This includes, but is not limited to: The sniper squadrons you encounter in PW, your entire batallion of HAIDARAAA screaming MSF soldiers, any and all Multiplayer encounters etc. - basically any in-game playermodel. The "M16" is also not exclusive in PW. It gets upgrades. Maybe the slap was not included, because they weren't sure about later design choices... maybe it's also unnecessary, or it might just speak about Big Boss' growth. A slap is a grunt thing, near silent pull is another thing. Snake becomes Big Boss and teaches his techniques to his soldiers, including his 2 sons (...unless we count out Eli and the retcon of Venom Snake). If this breaks continuity for you, then you don't know the first thing about the MGS series. It's plothole and retcon paradise. Concerning Weapon usage: Whereas MGS 1 favored the SOCOM (Mark.23) the now favored "1911" is present all the time. Otacon even outright delivers it to Solid Snake in his Mark II - see... MGS 3 was made BEFORE MGS 4... but MGS 1 was made before MGS 3 or 4.... See my point here? This is contradicted in MGS 5. In MGS 5 the SOCOM (or Geist) is now the "end stadium" pistol basically. They also favor 9mm, over .45 ACP for that game. "But why do you bring up the SOCOM? It was a 1 off gun in MGS 1" Well, dear friend and compatriot, I agree. But you see... they included Solid Snake's MGS 1 suit in MGS 5 - along with the Geist pistol. They outright told you "OK, next in line is MGS 1". But wait, O ye of little faith, but this is not directly representative of MGS 1 either: Solid Snake in MGS 1 doesn't know the first thing about his fathers, or his phantom's, CQC. BUT WAIT! Snake declares, was is MGS 4... ?, that he didn't like the use of CQC, because it reminded him of his old days and his father before. BUT WAIT! In "Metal Gear 1 and 2" on the MSX... Snake has NO CQC skills. He just uses basic punches to take down enemies, this is exactly where he WOULD use CQC.
Tarkov is kinda the same thing: you have your AKs M4s and other stuff, so you'll most likely just use the AK or the M4 so other guns are kind of obsolete
I think a couple of the reasons why MGS4 has the weapon bloat here relate to the war economy theme; several of the PMCs featured in the game, along with their opponents use different guns to represent not only differences in power but in economy.
the Middle Eastern Rebels for example use the AK-102-a 20 year old rifle by the time the game is set, based on a 50 year old design. It’s not the best gun but it’s what the rebels could afford. Meanwhile the PMC they’re fighting uses the SCAR, a much lighter, more modern, more customizable firearm that’s newer and more advanced(one of the most advanced by the time the game came out). This shows just how much richer the PMCs are and how much the war economy benefits them in a subtle way.
The other way I can think of is simply for the bloat’s sake-to show in a gameplay-based microcosm, just how bloated the economy of the game is. The player picks up a lot of guns throughout the game to fuel their purchases in the drebin point store, getting a small reward for circulating the firearms back into the system. Simply by being present and active in the warzone, you are contributing to the war economy, and your reward for it is accessing the spoils of said economy(and feeding back into it once more). This, to me, cements the player in the war economy theme, in all of its bloated glory. Like every soldier present, you contribute, however scantly, to the endless wars and the economy that benefits from those wars.
Hideo Kojima is nothing if not meticulous.
In addition: it's just fucking cool to have this many choices that aren't over-specialized. Less isn't always more, and considering how many of these guns are actually real, I don't see an issue with them all being present.
Those weapons are just 10 years apart. The M4 is older than the AK-102, yet I dont think someone would say it's an old design
I love that POV
Doesn't excuse bad game design.
That's a great post...sometimes people care too much about functionality of gameplay mechanics that they ignore the game is telling a story with it's mechanics.
Kinda reminds me with how people complain about classic survival horror game controls for being limiting/clunky, when in reality that limitation is meant to communicate to the player that your character is weaker than the enemies and is not Rambo, yet people still demand action game controls for survival horror games just because they "feel" better while fighitng.
This is kinda why I don't fully agree with "gameplay is king" mentality" because sometimes it kills creative gameplay in the name of functionality.
Fun fact: that throwing a grenade while lying down on your back or firing while on your back is unique to mgs4, it has never been replicated anywhere else.
I didn't know that 🤯
Firing on your back is in MGSV too. Idk about grenades though
@@Adam_U Yeah, you can fire all guns supine except for snipers and rocket launchers of.c. But grenades make you turn the way you're throwing IIRC.
Yeah it was the very best, I still think about how insane it was back then and how insane you can't do it anywhere now.
You can roll over and fire on your back in farcry primal
I was also turned off when Solid Snake is using the 1911, which is Big Boss's signature handgun. I get why because this game sequels MGS3 but from a lore perspective, he should be using the MK23, a beast of a handgun also in .45 for the "then" modern day SOCOM. MGS1 made a big deal about how Solid Snake liked it. In MGS3, Naked Snake/Big Boss raved about his 1911 because at the time, that's the ONLY handgun the US military would use. Why they decided to give Solid Snake a 1911 as well confuses me. He might LOOK older but he's still a product of contemporary special forces and even though real world Special Forces from the 90s to early 2000s also use 1911s, they also use more modern handguns. I think this choice was a game designer choice from Japan's fascination with classic American weapons. This is why in MGS4, you can unlock the ACTUAL 1911 that Big Boss uses in MGS3
Yea to say the least the developers definitely had a hard on for the 1911 since there are more than three variants of it in this game 🤣
@@pliskinboi TBH, I love the 1911 in real life. I've own 2 BUT...it is NOT my first pick for a modern fighting gun. I have a Glock for that and there IS a Glock in MGS4...but it's the full auto Glock. I wanted a Glock that I can also suppress like the 1911 in this game. Also the flashlights do nothing in this game.
Glock is honestly the only pistol I've gotten my hands on that I 100% trust my life to
@@pliskinboi I trust my life to Glock as well. I carry one.
@@pliskinboi what about the 1911 in peace walker?
Self restrictions can really spice up mgs4.
Not being allied with rebels or not using drebin at all for some simple examples.
I feel like the oversaturation of weapons and items kinda suits mgs4s theme of a bloated war economy & a dying franchise.
Self restrictions are fun af in both 4 and 5. Wish it didn't have to be that way though, the series deserves better
@@pliskinboi it truly does but kojima does everything for a specific aesthetic.
5 is an unfinished mess but that's what the project was decided to become after hearing konami was giving him the boot.
Each metal gear game is basically perfect and I figure it's a Japanese culture thing whenever I don't understand a particular decision made for any of the games.
Even Survive was created as a kind of message from kojima.
I feel like that's why mgs2 is my favorite: I love the game and the meta surrounding it. Whereas with the entries after mgs3 didn't have that same harmony
@@pliskinboi I love MGS3 gameplay wise but it really felt like Kojima was lowkey telling everyone to piss off. MGS2 had that amazing ending, all the philosophy and the "This is all a videogame, what matters is what you do with your life" and then in MGS3 and 4 he´s forced to make even more games so he tried to kill them off and the franchise keeps going. My favorite theory about MGS4 is the take that Kojima is trying to show you what happens to long running franchises if you keep pestering the dev/director/writer to keep going. Messed up characters, messed up mechanics, Snake is literally old and due to badly explained reasons (like bad tv shows) and even straight faced fanservice like that scene with Eva
My first run of MGS4 a few years ago I decided to use the tranq pistol very sparingly, so I performed a lot of hiding in plain sight by fighting alongside the militia, which would often mean trying to use their guns where suitable.
Smh, he doesn't understand the soul of a gun otaku.
“The only reason to use a gun is because you want to.” Yea, it’s a sandbox game, my guy. I think the bigger problem with MGS4 is the Drebin system giving you basically infinite ammo.
This video made me realize I enjoy stealth and no lethal playtroughs so much that I've never used most of this guns at all, maybe I will try to go for a more agressive run next time I replay the series
If you want a mgs that has fulfilling lethal gameplay, mgs1 and 2 caters to that nicely
@@pliskinboi By the way I can't believe this great quality content is so underrated, You're pretty good! and you got a new subscriber!
Thx m8
You and me both, my friend. I've gone non-lethal for so damn long now, I don't even remember doing great big lethal runs. Not being stealthy and non-lethal just feels. Wrong.
Yeah I have to actively make myself play more aggressive and I always feel like I'm missing out on the "authentic" experience.
Not only is there no reason to use 90% of the weapons in the game. The game is too short to even care about the shop system. Every time you pick up a weapon that you have full ammo for, it's automatically sold for Drebin points. When playing on the hardest difficulty. You cannot buy tranquilizer rounds. So if you are going to a non lethal play through. The only time you'll use the shop, is for lethal ammo for non manned machines that won't count as kills when you destroy them. Not enough was done with the psyche meter either, they should have left in eating animals for stamina. Or at least the surgery menu from snake eater. But that's another issue all together. Where MGS4 lacked in gameplay. It made up for in HOURS of cutscenes. Whereas MGS5 had an unfinished story mode but fantastically tight gameplay mechanics and open ended missions that made up for the lack of story. MGS4 has a lot of soul, but its drowned out by the cutscenes. The first two acts are great. The third act is annoying and slow. The fourth act is just there for nostalgia, and the 5th act has maybe ten minutes of gameplay before the final boss and almost an hour of straight cutscenes. MGS4 was meant moreso to be a movie. And it suffers as a game because of it.
I could NOT have said this better myself
Quit going non lethal only in mgs then. I did and its way more liberating to actually use all the tools given to you
Absolutely
It's short, but it has alot of reply value.
You can literally play in any style and use any tools or weapons that you want and that makes it worth it on multiple playthroughs...also it's fun messing around with the AI.
You can skip the cutscenes on the second playthrough and focus on exploring the posibilities of the gameplay, rather than rushing over to the next checkpoint.
I don't see the problem with the "nostalgia" in chapter 4 unless you're not an MGS story fan.
@ClayChoShow All Metal Gear before Snake Eater were pretty much short games. That's why they were accompanied of vr missions games to deepen the gameplay.As it, MGS4 had MGOnline which was great.
Overall, I still think that MGS4 is the most accomplished work form Kojima for the MGS saga Even tho it had to be theV if it was not it to be incompleted.
The worse part about the stand alone shotgun in MGS4 is it's the EXACT same shotgun you mount to your M4 just with a stock.
What about the Saiga-12 though?
You could also argue, in a battle where you find the shotgun the best solution (say shooting Mantis' dolls), you could have all the variety of shotguns available by switching them out without reload, since fast-reloads (weapon equip x 2) is gone in MGS4.
I don't see that as a bad thing?
The thing is, the shotgun you can attach to the M4 in MGS4 ultimately gets replaced by the saiga 12 due to the saiga being a semi automatic shotgun with better capacity. Although I do agree with many of your points, I do disagree about the grenade launcher attachment on the M4. I prefer using one of the few rocket launchers in place of it. The grenade launchers are only good for crowd control type situations, if you really need to hit a Gecko hard, you’d use a rocket launcher type weapon (just my opinion). I also didn’t really mind the 1911 in Snake Eater. Honestly once you beat the game most weapons in Snake Eater end up obsolete compared to the Patriot
There's such a beautifully huge selection of guns in this game, but it really doesn't matter because of how little gameplay there is
It's kind of similar to the gun in a lot of Ghost Recon or Rainbox six games. Variety but now in power scale. In hindsight, if I were to address vaierty of the guns in MGS4, it's lack of choices for customizing the guns that aren't the hero rifle, which is the M4. You can't put a silencer or change the optic on the XM8 or put a red dot on the MP5SD. It's just lacking in those things, but I guess we're spoiled by today's fast pace shooter games
Bro yeah, I played Rainbow Six Vegas which is a really cool game but you are spoiled for choice from the get go. Why would I use the MP5 or the P90 when the MP7 is so much better and is unlocked from the start? Why would I use the M4 or the SCAR-L when the XM8 does exactly the same but better? Something similar happens here, so many guns given to you from the start that you just get whatever works best and go with it. Still can´t believe the M4 is the only one that can get all the cool attachments, even more reason to not use anything else
Weapons have stats in MGS4, they're right there in the menu. Underbarrel grenade launcher on the M4 does less damage than a dedicate grenade launcher, is slower and not as accurate. It's these small details that make difference in MGS4, even though it's absolutely possible to beat the game with only M4. The problem isn't the weapons it's the difficulty
If you play on easy then yea those little differences matter, but playing on extreme the m14 is the clear winner that invalidates everything else
I like that you rate all the guns and talk about all the guns , cause i see gameplays from every metal gear solid and everyone uses only the tranq pistol like its the only weapon in the game
I think the first three mgs games really cater to experimentation with the sandbox. I'm glad I can bring more attention to the weapons as it'd be a shame if no one tried them out
@Lawenda Paszkiewicz Oh i see , maybe iam a little different cause i play mgs 5 and i have a lot of kills , but still when i dont kill anyone like the A++ or S soldiers i rather use cqc , i find it more chalenging and satisfiyng :D
Me too. The Tranq Gun lowkey ruins the series.
The Reason MGS4 is my favorite is partly because of the Guns actually
i hate cutscenes. they are too dang long. i enjoyed gameplay
it’s very similar in MGS V, too. you pretty much only use the tranq pistol, the MRS-4 (medium longevity for the suppressor after a few updates) and the tranq sniper rifle because you need to fulton enemy soldiers all the time. ALTHOUGH I must admit that the S-rank in mission is not dependant on how many enemies you kill anymore. there are even points for „tactical kills“ like headshots.
If you see any expert gameplay videos of MGSV, that is not exactly accurate.
There ae many ways to play the game and get highter ranks even without having to use weapons.
Well not really, you are still penalized for killing anyone.
I believe that the reason for so many guns existing is for you to pick and customize your favorite, much like the MGSV weapon customization you can unlock, and like other experiences where you can customize your character. They really cranked the customization over the series too, letting you wear one of many different camos, to unique clothing especially in PW and V, letting you design custom logos, etc.
MGS4 and MGSV especially suffer from poor balancing, where the starting equipment is the best and there's little point to using anything else. I suppose they're there to make sure anyone can make it through the game, but it really does leave a terrible aftertaste not having progressed towards an amazing weapon because it was handed to you at the very start. It also sucks that there's usually a definite best weapon for each scenario, instead of multiple options with their own boons and banes.
I take your point on the operator in MGS4, but they clearly wanted to give Snake in MGS3 a .45 to match the SOCOM and the USP so the period equivalent was the M1911
I'm currently replaying it after 13 years and I felt the exact same way as you about the abundance of guns I wouldn't use unless I did it just to say I did it
I'm glad the fixed it in mgsv by having you have to earn the unlocks and upgrades
@@pliskinboi you're right
Honestly, in all the playtroughs I've done MGS4, the only guns I have used are;
M4 Custom (Boss fights)
Mosin Nagant (Sneaking)
SVD (Boss Fights)
DSR (Boss Fights)
RPG-7 (Boss Fights)
STINGER (Boss Fights)
RAIL GUN (Suicide Gekkos part in Shadow Moses)
M82A2 (Same as above)
Operator (Sneaking and Fighting on Alert Status)
Mk 2 Pistol (Sneaking)
SAIGA 12 (Non-Lethal Beauties)
Grenade (Boss Fight)
Stun Grenade (Sneaking)
Smoke Grenade (Sneaking)
Chaff Grenade (Act 4 Only)
Nah, the fact that you have to used DP in MG4 was like wtf in itself. It introduced it right around when crap like that was flooding games.... The massive armory gives the player options, sure some guns might not work in every given situation but that doesn't mean they can't use used after all its just a game!
Kojima had so many weapons in this game because it's the grand finale of Metal Gear Solid. He included just about every weapon that appeared in previous games. More like fanservice than practical/tactical.
If that's true where's the FAMAS, the m9, the psg1?
@@pliskinboi They're not going to have the M9 because that was only a tranquilizer pistol. I guess they forgot the PSG1 and FAMAS.
@@LeonWick526 Maybe they felt like the G3 would have been a good enough replacement for the PSG1, especially when you consider you're far more likely to find the former in the MGS4's settings. PSG1 is a very rare gun IRL. Same with FAMAS unless the French military is operating nearby. Also, they didn't have to worry about the PS3's hardware limitation when it came to modeling guns, which is the main reason FAMAS was featured in MGS for the PSX.
Also I always use the Scorpion for the runway chase with the Shagohad, shooting the missiles and stuff. But yeah, I used the default tranq gun the whole time in literally every single mgs game
I like the laser sight on the skorpion for dealing with the shagohods missles
I feel that the point of comparison between the guns makes sense only through familiarity with the subject matter enough to know the names of the bad weapons when only to those who played who naturally don't need to be told on the subject matter.
I am happpy that I discovered your channel
even that I am not sure if I would agree with your opinion about mgs4 weapons in the end or not
I love how you divided weapons systems in games in general
and love that you have more content focused guns in video games and their balancing
keep up the good work
There was no reason to use a lot of the items in the mgs series, like the cigs.
Although after watching a guy do a speedrun of mgs always using sigs makes me think half the items and weapons are up to our imagination to use
definitely agree they have an excess in 4. its nice to have lots of variety if you do want to challenge yourself.
edit: also, cool video and nice work, liked and subbed
I too enjoy the variety. My criticisms are purely from a mechanical perspective
It's like with MGSV. At some point your choice is between stun and lethal because if it ain't full auto, it's semi.
Well the x25 is a air burst grenade launcher. It detonates before impact so you can hit enemies that are in deep cover. The other guns are there so players could choose a suppressed p90 for playing stealthy and when you are detected pull out the Scar H to bring the hate. Or have the m4 suppressed to attack medium to cqb and the DSR which is 300 Winchester magnum unsurpassed but with a flash hider to attack enemies from long range because if you are far enough they won't here you fire the rifle but the crack of the bullet passing them. M14 is a great DMR but a ok sniper. Each gun is built for a multitude of play styles. You may run out of 5.56 armor for the m4 so switch to a p90 or a scar h because I have plenty of 5.7 or 7.62 ammo. The game was made to chose your play style. Whether you do a no kill stealth run, a stealth run with kills, or go guns blazing. That is what makes the game so great.
But I do agree they should have allowed us to put suppressors on all sniper and assault rifles to.
Funnily enough this issue could have been fixed with the inclusion of my favorite controversial game mechanic:
WEAPON MALFUNCTIONS!!!
With weapon malfunctions the player would've had a reason to use the AK-105, SVD, Mosin and VSS at Shadow Moses as the M4 doesn't work as reliably AK in the cold and the M14 just shits itself in a snow storm (or really any sub-optimal environment).
Come to think of it, the mechanic would've fit in really well with the game as Snake's AK jams in the very first cut-scene, as well as a mechanic for an anti-war game.
That's a damn good idea
Damn, this makes me want to play mgs4 again, sold my disc years ago thinking, “ill never play this again!” Lol
Damn lol
I want you
5:20
There is the VSS you can get on act 2 on the Confinement Facility in case you didn't know with an infinite suppressor with a 3-10X scope who can be a good option.
Ps it can also stealth kill Gekos I just tried on the 1st one in the beginning of act 4 and on the 2 on the mine field despite missing shots they didn't spot me same for the one who appear when Octacon try to open the door with MK III
I've used the VSS but never tried it on the gecko. Definitely gonna test it out!
There aren't enough chapters to even experiment with the different guns.
There aren't even enough guns worth going through the trouble to experiment with.
I think this is the type of games made to fit a players preference. Theres a point here where it states that if theres a shotgun attachments for an assault rifle why would it waste space putting a shotgun weapon. And thats the thing, because i myself rather equip a stand alone shotgun than using it as an attachment for another weapon. Same for grenade laucher. The first to appear was the custom barrel attachment for M4, but when i recieve the 6 shot m32 grenade launcher it became my weapon of choise. So, those who like the grenade attachment may used it while those like me equip the M32. So i see no problem with the weapon system here. There are other games where it take you fun hours because it features so many aspects which makes you able to adjust your preferred style
I think the MK17 SCAR-H and M8X were added cause the game came out when the US had a bidde for a new rifle and the those two were the finalists.
But in a funny twist neither worked out and they went back to the M4/16/14.
As for the Operator use i belive they wanted and older looking gun that would not have an ID lock on it and the SOCOM at the time of the was being fazed out so I think Kojima wanted to keep trends.
The Scorpion is best used when you are on the cycle during the chase. It has a fast reload, lazer sight and takes enemies down in one hot while on that cycle and has much better control and range.
I think MGS4 had so many firearms cause they had them in the online so figured why not add all the. I stuck with the operator, 22, M4 or SCAR and M14EBR in my backpack, then add the odd ones like P90 for specific situations.
I really think they just wanted to give people something to collect that had practice use so they made guns collectable, but given i do full stealth I really ever get to use my guns
In MGSV I use the early game guns with a couple of customizable upgrades since they are a lot cheaper than the later guns :)
They also make the game harder and therefore more fun
@@pliskinboi yeah I actually love the fact that late game guns have more damage and better stats than early game guns, BUT they are more expensive as well. That makes it so you have to be careful with your expenses and think about what items and guns you should bring to the battlefield
Exactly that's why while I don't think it's perfect, mgsv still has a good weapons sandbox
Thanks. Loved this video.
Mgs4 had an online component, Metal gear online 2 and I think that was the reason for the assortment of weapons
Just because you have an online game with a bunch of guns doesn't mean you don't have to balance them
so its dps. Saigon can double tap frogs. the hk17 has best damage mid range with the right scope it carries. the rest I think is really for expanded play styles, m4 is kinda a lazy choice imo
Mgs4s balancing is kinda lazy imo
I think what you have missed with lethal pistols after mgs3 is that they are cqc complementary weapons.
You can use human shield with them
you can use them to crowd control enemies. They often make enemy flinch more than assault rifles and you can use that stagger effect to close the gap and go ham with cqc.
Also AK and
m63 have difference that ak can aim down sights. M63 is more of a close range weapon you use to run trough a crows of people
Your argument about the M4 is exactly why AR variants have become the dominant rifle platform in the west lol
It's a highly modular platform that does facilitate the usage of various optics, emitters and accessories. "Why use this other gun when I could just setup the M4 to do it just as well" is the exact question that has made the M4 a mainstay of the US military for so long and why European countries are increasingly adopting the HK416, which is effectively just an AR variant with a gas piston. I get why it's not great from a gameplay standpoint I'm just saying it's true to life at the very least ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yea m8 nobody sensible on this earth is gonna argue against the fact that AR platform weapons are superior to most of not all weapons setups out there I'm just ragging on how the games balancing is fucked because if you have one gun that does almost everything why have the 50 others? Sure variety is nice but from a functional standpoint the game is flawed in its balancing af
@@pliskinboi Plus some of the other guns in the game can do the same things as the M4. Most military grade rifles will get suppressors for example, but in MGS4 the M4 does it
I just remembered, you get a 1911 at the beginning, the Operator right? But you have a way to get Big Boss' very own 1911 as an unlockable. Why have two?!
You can also unlock The Boss' Patriot, and the Solar Gun from Boktai (best handgun).
Apart from all these problems, you must admit the Tanegashima was fun haha
I love bonus weapons and think they are a blast for replay value so I don't count them as ruining the balancing since they are just that: bonuses.
You're 100% right on the 1911's though. But don't forget you also have the gsr and race gun which are based off of the 1911 as well. So that's 4 1911's!
@@pliskinboi make it five.
The Thor whatever whatever gun liquid "uses" and you get as a bonus, is also based on an 1911.
I feel it was more of a critic of modern fps games by Kojima,kinda like "yeah you got like 500 different weapons, but they all do the same" like in cod or bf
If that was intentional then it's fucking genius! Never thought about it that way, thanks m8
@@pliskinboi Even then I just think Hideo Kojima just really likes guns. I just liked having a variety of different weapons visually and reading their descriptions, not justifying their existence in game because they are inferior to the M4, but it got me into irl firearms at a young age.
In that regard yea mgs 4 is awesome. I love how the modelling and manual of arms are mostly appropriate to the real life counterparts. I'm just griping about how it negatively impacts mechanics is all.
I think that may be it. I remember one of the trailers seemed to mock the explosion of modern warfare clones on the market, by having it mostly in first person from a PMC's perspective which lead to him getting his ass beat by snake. There were taglines throughout that more or less said "This is MGS, not another modern FPS".
For me COD's weapons 'work' due to the variety of missions in single player. You get to see all these cool guns you've never seen before and it's kinda entertaining.
I know Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 had this problem as well. There's just so many guns but what's the point when I can add all these superior attachments to a single weapon and there's virtually no difference between them?
I wanna make it clear just because something may be poorly balanced doesn't mean it's not fun. I too have a lot of fun dicking around with the guns in both cod multiplayer and campaign.
*but I do think a reason why zombies is as fun as it is has a little to do with the fact that the weapons are rebalanced in a clear level up way.
RS Vegas still pisses me off, why give me the MP7 from the start? Why give me literally all guns from the start? You play with the best guns and don´t move away from that. MP7/XM8 with MK23 all the way
@@Axl4325 Yea there is literally no reason to change weapons other than out of curiosity
Weapons like snipers and shotguns are useless and the pistol may as well not exist
You are right, but sometimes using different guns is fun.
I think snake doesnt use a socom in mgs4 until he finds another at shadow moses is because he gave it to raiden in bigshell which raiden kept (if you look at raidens leg you can see he has a holster with the mk23) and snake at the time replaced it with a usp9 -that he stole from olga which was much more practical and light weight. He probably lost it when he was captured with raiden on arsenal gear- along with the m9. Anyway, I haaate that in mgs4 when i equip the socom and a cutscene plays, it replaces the gun snake is holding with the operator!!!!
I think the MGS series was similar in how the Resident Evil series changed from RE5 to 6. Once it became a 3rd person shooter, where you can move while aiming your gun and shooting, that changes the balance of the game. Sure you can technically shoot guns while running around in MGS1 to 3 but not like 4 which became an over the shoulder 3rd person shooter and because you, as the player, don't feel the weight of each gun, the M14 really does the job of the M4 a lot better even in 3rd person mode.
MGSV just made this problem a million times worse than MGS4 lol
Cutscene weapon appearance should be whatever you have equipped in your R2.
20 minutes of complaining about the biggest variety at the time is crazy. My only jssue is most guns don't have suppressors
Just me being weird not being entertained by yet another copy paste useless gun that gets me killed more often than it helps.
Mgs4 Is not a competitive game you don’t always have to be hyper efficient, maybe I just wanna use the XM8 because I like how it looks.
Honestly this kind of thinking optimises the fun out of a game.
Halo CE, Resident Evil 4 (2023), fallout new vegas. Each of those games have good balancing. I don't like or care about competitive games. I like good balancing for being fair and fun. Sure you can use the XM8 because it does look cool. But then have fun triggering alerts, having enemies soak up mag after mag, and generally having the game punish you for it.
@@pliskinboi Metal Gear “Punishes” you for fighting in general, but it still lets you do it.
Halo is the only real example of what you’re talking about on that list, mainly because its balanced for multiplayer.
New vegas has loads interesting weapons that aren’t always the most efficient choice, its realistic.
At the end of the day having a lot of verity in the arsenal doesn’t detract for the experience at all, you can choose not to use them.
When I talk about halo I'm talking about campaign. A game can have variety. I just want it balanced.
@@pliskinboi Well no campaign is balanced, the player always has massive advantages, you’re talking about challenge.
Boss difficulty is hard no matter what gun you use.
I just don’t see how ditching most the weapons on it’s own would some how make the game better, there not forcing you to use every weapon.
@@pliskinboi I disagree but please get the wrong idea Im glad to see anyone make anything about MGS4.
I just think it gets a-lot of unfair criticism.
It’s as if you almost don’t understand variety and people using weapons that they personally like
For almost 4 years I've been saying variety can be achieved with good balancing. Mgs4 just has shit there for the sake of it being there.
I do love these takes about MGS4- but man, I just like the way MGS4 dared to have as many guns as it did. YOU get to pick and choose the type of stuff Snake will use. YOU can go guns blazing or quiet no matter what!
I agree with you on the 1911 main sidearm thing- yes absolutely, it’s silly, but idk, most MGS games are kinda silly.
The MGS3 point especially makes sense to me, tbh. i always opt for the MK22 for stealth, 1911 suppressed to aim for legs n joints to slow enemies down so I can cqc them, and/or a rifle of some kind to ensure my ass doesn’t get caught a mile away- and it’s almost always the XM16E1 I pick because of burst/single fire options and its suppress-able, unlike an AK, which I only switch to if I’ve been caught and can afford to take a few guards out, or (if I’m inside) I stick to the m37 or the 1911/CQC combo.
I love the 5.7 pistol, it sounds so good
Don't forget about how good it feels to use. In regards to handguns (based on damage and capacity) it's easily the best choice. If only we could suppress it.
MK2 tranq gun
M82 50 cal rifle
P90 smg
Everything else is either completely useless or is used once and then gets outclassed once you have the weapons above
The 1911 is a fantastic firearm IRL.
For competitions sure. You wouldn't catch me trusting my life to it if I can choose glock, sig, or a tried and true hk
@@pliskinboiI carry a glock 17 9mm.
This game really needed a Subsistence style update that also changes the weapon balance. Tranq even on Extreme is so damn good you don’t feel incentivized to use anything else.
Ask any gun guy and they'll agree that the 1911 is one of the best handguns.
Not this guy.
Something that really bugs me about 4 is that it didn't bring back the PSG1T from MGS2, aka the best sniper in the series. Glad 5 brought it back, even though that doesn't make much sense timeline wise.
Well in mgsv they don't use any real guns so you can give it a pass for any anachronistic weaponry
Actually the psg1 was developed in the 1970s. V takes place in 84, also all the guns are real guns just with gibberish names. The only gun that isn't real as far as I remember is the g44 which looks like a famas, g11, and a few other guns mashed together.
@@Bourikii2992 Nope. All the guns in MGSV are frankenguns. Well designed frankenguns mostly mind you, but still completely made up.
@@Killicon93 99% of guns don't look exactly 100% like what they are modelled off of. That doesn't make them not real just inaccurate.
I totally understand and agree with what you're saying here... however, as someone who is playing through all the metal gear series for the first time, after having played through MG1/2 and MGS1/2/3 and now 4, it felt great to just get a couple badass weapons from the very start and just all out the whole playthrough.
Loved the video, I never played MGS 4 nor am I that much a MGS fan. But even so, your study of game design systems throughout these games are really instructing ! Thank you
Kinda reminds me of substractive design systems like Fumeto Ueda uses, less is more.
I'm glad you enjoyed. While metal gear tends to make up a bulk of my channels content, I spend a lot of time talking about other games and their weapons balancing. I did one on Red Dead Redemption 2 a while back you might enjoy!
the RGB6 in mgs2 trivializes the vamp fight
hell the 50 cal you can buy in mgs4 trivializes the geckos honestly better than the rail gun (only played on big boss hard so might be different on lower difficulties)
For the sake of this video I was talking about mgs4 on extreme
I so agree with you on everything. Especially mgs4 and how nothing makes sense with 1911 being one those things.
I think its because the war economy thing... just to show us that things are really across the board... and its not just an action game, most of the times you have to be stealth so it kinda make you feel frustraded but that is totally intentional I bealive.. again cause of the exaggerated war economy thing
Couldn't the war economy be expressed through a level up system, further promoting the thematic undertones by showing how the best equipment is given to the highest bidder?
Loved the operator and socom...both are canon and great hero guns in my eyes.
The game always rewards you for playing non lethally so having so many lethal guns is frustrating
KEKW but i like the M1911A1 in MGS3 XD
That's chill to like it. Remember when I champion or shit on any given weapon I'm talking about it strictly from a balancing standpoint.
1911 master race. That gun transcends past, present and future. It only make sense for a battle hardened super soldier like Snake to come to his senses and realize that it's the best of the best, regardless of caliber. Would've loved to have seen MGS4 include a system like MGS5 where you could upgrade specific weapon systems and deviate the upgrade trees to different calibers and setups. The 9x19 AP version of the AM D114 goes straight through helmets for a one shot headshot. Extremely useful and fun which is the most important aspect of any game in my opinion.
That being said I will agree that the M4 Custom and M14EBR are hands down the best weapons to use in MGS4. I'd say a good runner up for Big Boss Extreme is the Mosin garbage rod.
I'd like to think a hardened super soldier would be wise enough to choose a gun that wouldn't choke up easily in harsh environments.
Can you suppress the mosin in game?
I mean, the inrangetv mud test the 1911 ran better than most rifles and functioned essentially unhampered. So does that mean everyone should run around with 1911s instead of rifles?
The reality is if you're forced to use your pistol in real life in a military situation, you're fucked.
Fuddposting, the 1911 has over a century of improvement by other handguns. I'd quite happily take the reliability and high performance of an HK weapon than a 1911 still trying to be relevant.
Retains .45, higher mag capacity, higher accuracy, much better made and reliable, looks cool as shit. Gains in all directions.
@@NeverKetamine HK pistols were a fad. Just look at their relevance now. I have personal love for the USP line but don’t kid yourself, nobody outside of 90’s nostalgia babies and Metal Gear fans are remotely interested in anything coming from that company’s pistol lineup. That gun in particular is their pinnacle in design philosophy and they let it fall by the wayside with zero modernizations in optics, standardized 1913 rail or updated controls for western consumers. The 1911 is still dominant in shooting sports and will always find a spot at the top of performance due to its amazing trigger characteristics. The influx of 5 million 2011’s on the market just further proves my point. Ergonomics and performance unmatched. Still own a USP9 Tactical and even carried a USP9C for a couple of years before I sold it.
In MGS3, the Scorpion was the only weapon with a laser (aside from the EZ gun), making hipfiring it more of a feasible tactic for firefights.
It was great for situations where you would want to be firing accurately fast, and also made it easier to hit targets while running without having to stop and aim.
Granted, I'm taking this mostly from my experiences in Subsistance's multiplayer; single player may have been slightly different.
I've never gotten to play the subsistence multiplayer. I'm so jealous of you. Yes, I'm talking specifically in single player where those benefits do ring true but the ammo capacity, the fact that you already have most of the other weapons that do spread and accuracy better, and that you get it near the end of the game making the places you can use it extremely limited all add up to the gun not really having a place in the game
G’day from down under! I just want to say I really love this video and you’ve got a new subscriber! I never realised how bad the gun system actually was in MGS4. My main play throughs were non-lethal. However, I did tinker around with all the firearms in the game.
I personally think there is an over abundance of guns in the game due to the war economy being so prevalent (being one of the games themes). Plus, I think it was just Kojima and team trying to flex on the industry at the time, showing how many guns they could put in and most of them being customisable.
Lastly, l think they chose the Springfield Operator 1911 for Old Snake as it correlates the relationship between Big Boss and Snake. Being, the Operator is not the original, but they are very similar in design. Aka a ‘clone’ of the original.
I'm glad you enjoyed! I really wish mgs4's narrative wasn't snake eater centric, the issues for me go way beyond the similarities with the 1911. I think I was a mistake to not but more emphasis on mgs2's story.
@@pliskinboi I’m glad I came across your channel! You have some interesting takes on the MGS series and possible future ideas.
Oh dude, MGS4’s story was a mess, but a beautiful and chaotic mess which serviced the fans. MGS2 is my favourite in the series as well, but I think Kojima steered clear of MGS2 due to the unfortunate backlash 😕
Keep up the great videos. I know I have some content to catch up on from you 😎 “You’re pretty good” 👉🏻👉🏻
It's not bad. This guy seems to have too much of a "meta" mind. Yes the m14ebr is the best gun in the game, but the FAL is way sexier. Mgs4 has way more replay value. Plus he complains about the custom 1911, but the socom is obtained in the game in a nostalgic place. If you got the socom right away they would be way less hype then crawling under the truck for shits and giggles only to find a throwback and the sexist pistol ever made.
RGB6 in MGS2 is very useful during Vamp boss fight. I don't recall if others can hit him underwater as effectively.
It is but regular grenades or the stinger work just as well since you don't need to hit him, just the water
@@pliskinboi yeah, I guess so. I just remember that there was ammo respawn for the RGB6, so I did stick to it exclusively at that Vamp boss fight.
Overall I'd say it is good to have different options for guns, even if some are objectively worse than others, because players can have choices. But at the same time some are meaningless choices. Unlike going non lethal, which has a benefit (depending on the game) and a subjective goal, going crappy lethal vs powerful lethal guns feels just spammy. It's personal, but MGS4 did feel like that for me as well.
It would be nice if we had some statistics on how many % of players used X weapon during the game.
I think that can be achieved either through a single purpose or level up system. Multiple guns and options are a good but they should always be balanced well.
"It reminds me of CoD4. Where you have all these generic guns that jhst exist to take up space."
Congrats my dude, you figured out Kojima's meta-narrative of 4 about how most shooters at the time generic gunporn games eith very little thought put into their gameplay. All the NPC's fighting each other are basicslly CoD players.
I don't care about Kojima's poor excuse for a meta narrative in 4. I'm talking about sandbox balancing
@@pliskinboi Im sorry that you missed the point of the story and that hurts your feelings but it not a legitamate criticism juat because you didn't understand it.
Or did you just completely miss the point of Drebin's character?
He basically tells you that all the other guns are generic repetative junk with very little variety (Shooters) that exist just to be sold and reused in the mindless system that the Patriots (game developers) have created wheras the M4 (Metal Gear Solid 4) is a fine tuned work of art because there was more thought put into its design than base stats.
Your design philosophy for how games "should" work in terms of gunplay is limited and pretentious and runs counter to the themes of MGS4, and I am incredibly thankful not what Kojima did in the game proper and your not gonna convince me you know better than the man who has been pushing the envelope in gaming for decades.
Jesus Christ, you're jerking him off so hard I'm surprised you can get the cum out of your eyes long enough to type.
If this game ever gets remastered or remade one of the changes I'd like to see is a revamped shop. Take a cue from Resident Evil 4 and Village and have Drebin set up shop at specific point on the map rather than always be available via menu. Have either the amount of points you earn reduced significantly or increase the price of weapons. Also remove a decent chunk of the repetitive weapon types and have a level up gun system where some better weapons are found on the map and some bought from Drebin at a price that makes you have to work to get them. And the upgrade tier should be like 3-5 weapons per type.
all valid points, no disagreement. ill just add to that my experience which was having an unreasonable amount of fun collecting all 70 guns and trying them all out, looking at all their unique animations and how they look with what attachment
I too vibe with messing around with the guns, especially the xm8 and 5.7
I think its fair to point out that the modularity and customization of firearms at the grunt level was new at the time. While US Socom was familiar with the idea the common grunt was just getting these new weapons. By MGS5 even Cold War Fals and AKMs were being upgraded. Thats probably why the M4 M14 and Scar 17 had more customization. Great video overall.
I haven't made a top 10 guns for MGS4, but I already know that #1 is the M82A2, hands down.
I think a similar game with this problem is Splinter Cell Convictions
Former US military brass here. I was a relatively high ranking officer just a few years ago, and I absolutely would choose a good 1911 over Mk23 or the garbage Beretta M9, but I too agree that it is no match for Old Snake. Just with how massive his sneaking suit makes him, it just doesn’t look right.
I never understood the hate the beretta gets. But then again I've never used one outside of it being in pristine condition. I could see how a military hand me down could be rough.
Thoughts on the p226, USP, or of course the glock?
@@pliskinboi Main complaints I hear about the M9/92 is that the grip is too chonky for smaller hands and the original location of the safety on the slide was annoying to deal with. During the 90s, a lot of spec ops guys skipped the M9 for 1911 because they preferred its handling, balance, trigger, and the bigger hole that .45 Auto leaves in bodies.
Sure bud. All the kids on the playground worship you now.
In my ideal world, Extreme in MGS4 (and the rest of the series) would be: no drebin, all enemies have helmets like in Peace Walker, no tranq, and only 1 spare mag of reserve ammo for each weapon
Sounds lit
Could the problem be from their I never played it but when I think about it MGS4 gives off a feeling of against in a way, Konami could have forced to make the game towards their successful competitors. Konami asking for a create a class system with weapon attachments. Not to mention, Call of Duty: 4 Modern Warfare released a year prior. I feel as though attachments in MGS where never to crazy suppressor at most. Being Konami they are not the most best managers of their studios as per Kojina Productions history. It's sad to think that Call of Duty has a influence on MGS4 and idk if anyone else has felt the same?
@pliskinboi No one made a "Top 10 Gun in MGS4" because the game itself rewards you with the best Classification if you don't use any lethal gun.🙃
That's a large part of why I always felt the mgs series was held back by Kojima. No matter how much freedom the game gives you, you are held back by how he wants you to play.
@@pliskinboi I understand what you mean. When we think about is a game completely different from other games. And that's one of the aspects that make it special.
Besides the undertitle «Tactical Espionage Operations» says it all. It was not mean to be played like COD: running and guns blazing all over the place, but be stealthy and avoid unnecessary conflit.
The series were not «held back». It has been like that all the way, since the 1st two Metal Gear games in 8bit gaming systems.
«(...), you are held back by how he wants you to play»
- Well, in that case, you could say the very same thing about Counter Strike, COD, and all other similar games: you are held back by how the game wants you to play it and you can't play it some other way but violently and killing everything in sight.
If the Metal Gear series had the same purpose of most war games, it would have nothing special about it but its story.
And it would be easily forgotten like so many other war RPGs have been.
Anyway, you still may play it violenty as long you do it in the shortest period of time to achieve an S Rank.
I did it several times with different ways in my Speedruns, for instance the: 3rd Episode, C2W, Footprints of Phantoms, Red Brass, etc.
As long you execute all Episode's Mission Tasks, you can kill everything you find and still get an S Rank.😉
I always use lethal. I enjoy all the killing, that’s why.
Based
it’s fun to have a bunch of guns to play with. there’s a bunch of stuff in these games with very little utility, not just the guns. they serve to make the game world feel more alive
I agree it's fun to have variety. My critique is based on judging the games mechanics. While it's totally fine to have something be for the sake of fun I think it's better when it's fun and mechanically sound
@@pliskinboi then thats barking up the wrong tree. MGS4 gameplay is great
@@Phantom-kc9ly I love losing battlefield stealth less than halfway through the game and having it replaced with the worst tailing mission ever, followed up by an albeit pretty good shadow Moses section, ending off with one stealth encounter, a mid boss, and a linear hallway. Oh and did I mention the sandbox is fucked?
This is a high quality channel, you need way way more than 339 subscribers for this solid analysis
Thanks m8, it's comments like these that keep me posting videos!
I love the Snake Eater 1911
Why would an American Military Base have French F1 FAMAS Rifles instead of a M16A2.
tbh I have never used the lethal weapons much in mgs2-4 so I never really thought about these problems
Mgs 2 creates a niche for lethal weapons as discussed in prior videos. But yea the tranqtardification of metal gear is very much at the heart of the series sandbox issues.
@Pliskin BOI I always found it fun to aim for no kill runs. Starting with MGS4, it was a bit easier to achieve, but the gameplay loop stuck with me. In every game other than the original, I used the tranq pistol more than any other weapon. I can see how a lot of people didn't have the same mentality though
I'm totally up for a NL Playthrough here and there but I just hate how poorly implemented it is. Like imagine have to use cqc, the gas and handkerchief, and animals to scare guards instead of having the tranq pistol or mosin.
You’d use the guns cause they are cool that’s why
I was gonna comment how utterly stupid this video was but I feel the fact you can’t even break a thousand likes perfectly explains that for me
Thank you Cade Mosser, very cool.
@@pliskinboi your welcome, I can’t fathom how you complained about virtual guns for 20 minutes and tried to pose an argument to something that wasn’t remotely a problem
Honestly the butt hurt you're emitting rn is worth the time and effort put into every video.
@@pliskinboi I’m not butt hurt, and who still says butt hurt lmao. Your the one butt hurt at virtual guns making up problems that didn’t exist😭
Butt hurt
I personally liked the variety of firearms in this game
Variety isn't the issue. It's how lazily they are balanced. If it was a level up system the abundance of weapons would make sense and give a reason to use everything at a given time.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is another stealth game with a bizarre amount of guns with no sense of progression. Possibly even less justified than MGS4 because you're not sneaking through war zones in Blacklist.
THE HALO SOUNDTRACK 💯
Always
I walk away from this video thankful that I’m not a weirdo for thinking that the M14 is the best gun in the game.
Same for MGSV. I know that there are players who just experiment and mess around all day. But for most players there is no point for all these weapon and gear options.
And the one thing I do want, a nice Heckler & Koch style SMG for my super sneaky missions - NOPE.
But MGS4 is even worse because... well, there's not that much gameplay. In MGSV you can at least run around for hours, free roam requesting airdrops. MGS4 is like 10-20min of gameplay followed by an equally long cutscene.
I like the South America chapter of mgs4 because we actually get more of that battlefield sneaking gameplay and it's awesome. Been meaning to do a video on five so I might throw that up within the foreseeable future.
As someone who played through MGS4 experimenting with different guns, I agree with this video and this is an issue I thought about a lot. But even then, there are some interesting cases:
There are weapons with fully integrated suppressors in them, like PSS and VSS, which gives you a cool QOL feeling since you’ll never need to open the menu to buy suppressors for them. Even though it’s only a small benefit, I did enjoy using them, especially the PSS. There were lots of times I had to shoot an enemy twice in the head to kill them with the PSS (due to the quick damage fall off) but still, it was my favorite pistol. Also, screw that crappy Operator, I really hate how some cutscenes put that gun back into your inventory.
For shotguns, there is the Saiga12, which is automatic, and the Twin Barrel which is single handed. So technically both of these can fill a role that the Masterkey under the M4 can’t. But the issue is that you don’t have a good reason to use them. They are really far from being the best method of dealing damage to any boss and you just put yourself in danger by sticking to them, so why even go beyond using the masterkey?
Last thing, there’s the M82A2 anti matter rifle which you can only get by buying from the shop and I would say it’s better than the Rail Gun, which you get after you beat Crying Wolf. I don’t know if that really matters but still, I enjoyed using that weapon and it is the best sniper (stat wise) while having the clear disadvantage of not being able to use a suppressor.
You still have the really good versatile weapons. So your upset you get other options?
I like well balanced sandboxes. You can have a lot of options without pointless guns.
"the BEEZON"
I think a problem with weapon choices is MGS1 to 3 were NOT shooter games, so the small pool of weapons makes more sense. Peace Walker was a game made after MGS4 and you can tell from the way Big Boss now handles his guns very similar to how Solid Snake does. I you pay attention, for some reason in MGS4, when Snake reloads a gun and there's still a round in the chamber, he ejects it when loading a fresh mag...even though there's no fucking reason for him to do that other than the game designers thought it was cool but Big Boss in MGS3 ever did that.
Pay attention to Solid Snake's reload animation of the M4 to Big Boss's reload of his M16. They are EXACTLY the same thing. That alone breaks character continuity for Big Boss by them lazily using MGS4 reload animations to cut time. Because in MGS3 when you see in first person when Bog Boss reloads his M16, he slaps it after reloading a new magazine, a common practice for soldiers.
You have to remember, that MGS is made in Japan - by japanese people.
They have it in their constitution to not have an army, not even for defensive purposes, something like the inclusion of a bolt-catch-slap might be something they learnt for MGS3, but excluded for Peace Walker JUST BECAUSE they forgot. Maybe they also wanted to make it a bit more uniform... since ALL soldiers use the same weapon equally. This includes, but is not limited to: The sniper squadrons you encounter in PW, your entire batallion of HAIDARAAA screaming MSF soldiers, any and all Multiplayer encounters etc. - basically any in-game playermodel.
The "M16" is also not exclusive in PW. It gets upgrades. Maybe the slap was not included, because they weren't sure about later design choices... maybe it's also unnecessary, or it might just speak about Big Boss' growth. A slap is a grunt thing, near silent pull is another thing. Snake becomes Big Boss and teaches his techniques to his soldiers, including his 2 sons (...unless we count out Eli and the retcon of Venom Snake).
If this breaks continuity for you, then you don't know the first thing about the MGS series. It's plothole and retcon paradise.
Concerning Weapon usage:
Whereas MGS 1 favored the SOCOM (Mark.23) the now favored "1911" is present all the time. Otacon even outright delivers it to Solid Snake in his Mark II - see... MGS 3 was made BEFORE MGS 4... but MGS 1 was made before MGS 3 or 4.... See my point here?
This is contradicted in MGS 5. In MGS 5 the SOCOM (or Geist) is now the "end stadium" pistol basically. They also favor 9mm, over .45 ACP for that game.
"But why do you bring up the SOCOM? It was a 1 off gun in MGS 1"
Well, dear friend and compatriot, I agree. But you see... they included Solid Snake's MGS 1 suit in MGS 5 - along with the Geist pistol. They outright told you "OK, next in line is MGS 1".
But wait, O ye of little faith, but this is not directly representative of MGS 1 either:
Solid Snake in MGS 1 doesn't know the first thing about his fathers, or his phantom's, CQC.
BUT WAIT!
Snake declares, was is MGS 4... ?, that he didn't like the use of CQC, because it reminded him of his old days and his father before.
BUT WAIT!
In "Metal Gear 1 and 2" on the MSX... Snake has NO CQC skills. He just uses basic punches to take down enemies, this is exactly where he WOULD use CQC.
While I think you quite well get game design, it feels like you really, really don't get guns in and of themselves.
Mhmmm....
The bloated gun roster was put in place for the sake of the multiplayer component. In a single player game just use what you like, it's not that deep.
All you really needed in multiplayer was the p90
@@pliskinboi yeah all multiplayer games have metas but in single player you're not constrained by those using better equipment than you.
Both multiplayer and single player games are more than capable of having well balanced sandboxes that avoid a meta
Tarkov is kinda the same thing: you have your AKs M4s and other stuff, so you'll most likely just use the AK or the M4 so other guns are kind of obsolete
Yeah but there's a clear progression system in whick you possess only the weapons that you are able to purchase