Why NOBODY Uses This Support Company
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they should remove the useless supression bonus and the org penalty, instead give it more HP so it can be used in tiny divisions (paratroopers?)
Or tanks (if it doesn't remove org)
@cisarovnajosefina4525 all support companies have negative org and the suppression is purely because it uses the infantry equipment stats
Or maybe make it work EXAXTLY as it says on the tin? It's assault BATTALION(500-1000 men), that is somehow forced into support COMPANY(100-400 men) slot. It should just be a battalion type that you unlock by a focus just like dutch and japanese get bicycle battalions. Would work great for those 9/0 divisions that people like to battleplan with😅
+40 HP, doesn't take up CW. Seems like a W for bigger inf divisions
Bigger infantry divisions already have more than enough HP though. It only kinda makes sense in tiny
@@user-xh9pu2wj6b TBH paratroopers are paraforces. Not worth a while.
@@pawezdziech7120 true
Assault Battalion works wonders with tank divisions. It can pay for itself, literally, in a single fight, and it doesn't have it's own speed limit, so even a light tanks+motorised division, that moves 12km/h, can use them.
@@IndependentObserver that's a really good point too
Assault battalions are insanely useful for tank divisions; it's an incredibly cost-effective way of increasing HP and thus reducing losses.
In a tank division, let's say a 40cw one you have 10 motorized infantry battalions (250HP) and 10 tank battalions (20HP) In total even such a very big tank division has just 270 HP, in which it has 500 medium tanks (or 400 heavies/600 lights but let's focus on mediums) 350 trucks and 1000 guns. To lose 10% of this division's strength during combat means to lose 50 tanks, 35 trucks, and a 100 guns, which equates to about 800 IC cost (assuming the medium tank costs 13IC which is pretty reasonable) and it only requires sustaining 27 strength damage. Strength damage=60% of org damage, division like this has 35 org. Ergo- A SINGLE instance of spending your whole organization equals to about 21 strength damage. Let's say you almost spent your org but you won a fight, you move to the attacked tile, reorg a bit in the meantime and push back a very weak counterattack- that would be about 27 strength, and about 800 IC worth of losses.
With an assault battalion though, this division now has 310 HP and uses 1100 guns, which means in an equivalent scenario it didn't sustain 10% losses, it sustained just 8.7% losses- it still lost 27 strength but now that 27 strength didn't mean 50 destroyed tanks, 35 destroyed trucks and 100 lost guns- now you only lost 43 tanks, 30 trucks, and 95 guns- yes, despite the fact that this division now uses more guns, in final result it still lost a bit less guns than a division without this battalion.
In total, a fight that would originally cost you 800 IC, now costs you about 700 IC- literally A SINGLE INSTANCE of spending your whole organization bar (plus some), and that assault battalion has already paid for itself (as it costs 90IC) Multiply that by 10/20 divisions and tens or even hundreds of times tank divisions spend their whole organization bars during fighting (especially when pushing against the Soviets) and suddenly, it turns out that not only these assault battalions paid for themselves (while slightly increasing your stats) they saved you many times more IC than you paid for them (and didn't decrease your fighting capabilities in the process, unlike field hospitals)
Also a thought during editing- if the division was smaller, the positive effect of assault battalion would be even greater, because a loss of 45 points of organization would still result in 27 strength damage, and you'd still lose 50 tanks 35 trucks etc. because you also have half the HP so that 27 strength damage would now mean 20% losses instead of 10%, but HP from adding the Assault Battalion would increase that HP by 30% instead of by 15% and result in an even greater reduction of lost equipment (at least %wise, with smaller divisions you'd still lose more of it than with a bigger one) so if you tend to use smaller divisions- which as Italy is very often the case, adding in the assault battalions would have an even greater impact.
Try using paragraphs mate.
@@SovietGrazz done, also added a new thought at the end.
sounds really powerful for a war of attrition style fighting
sure it is more fun overall to go with grand encirclements and try and destroy divisions but its definitely viable to try and grind their equipment and manpower to dust on a more static front as well. and thats what maintenance companies specialise in so i think theres synergy here
use tanks + assault battalion + maintenance company and you could out grind anyone
@@Six_slotted Sure, especially that the cost of adding assault battalions to your whole army would be very much feasible, though honestly (if you have manpower) you might as well just add 2 battalions of infantry to your infantry divisions instead, as the cost would be roughly the same- more guns but less support equipment, and you'd get more HP and more combat stats. Assault battalions are uniquely useful for high-cost low-hp divisions.
Someone consulted the spreadsheet 😂
You didn't take into account combat width on infantry divisions. It's not about the ratio of stats to equipment to produce, it's about the ratio of stats to combat width that will win you battles.
I got it. You can add it to special forces like marines and mountineers to add extra power without hitting the limit.
I was thinking the same. Perhaps put it on a paratrooper division?
Yeah. Seems like useful for high cost, low HP division.
What if you were to add it to a tank division? You're not losing the speed for using leg infantry, but also not adding on more trucks like you would for adding another mot infantry unit.
personally I'd say the org loss is the big downside of adding it to a tank division. Tank divisions usually are a case of having a maximum amount of tanks with motorized or mechanized infantry added to balance out the low org of tanks.
True, but on a similarly sized division the assault battalion removes less org than other support companies.
@@VayleGW yes but it's bad only if you have a small template and with a good tank template i usually have a 40 or 30 width almost always 40 when i am a major power so i don't get any debuff for org
@@VayleGW Do you really lose org ? You lose a lot of org with infantry because infantry bataillion have high org and the game averages it. But if your tanks have already low org, the assault bataillon may instead raise it (or, maybe, lower it less than another support)
The org hit will definitely hurt your tank divisions with this, but the extra HP will end up saving quite a few tanks in the long run.
I thought they are support company. Brigade is large formation, just below division
Edit: increase HP without taking CW and hardness away, might be good with tank division
I finally found you
Tanks are low org. anyway. Assault Battalion will lower this below 10. This idea is just dumb.
On a large division the assault battalion causes a smaller loss in org than other support companies. The org loss scales so the larger the division the less is lost. It wouldn't cause that big a loss.
You are correct. They are companies, brigades are formations made of multiple battalions.
@@pawezdziech7120 it has less org loss than support artillery and adds that HP which is lacking in tank heavy divisions.
Adding HP and defense to a division without 1 slowing the division down (mot, mech, tanks) Adding HP to paratroopers and other special forces that have excess org.
Adding HP and defense to any division without increasing combat width.
"it is not a support battalion it is a support brigade", actually hoi calls them "support companies" (to distinguish them from front line batallions ig) but in the real world they are usually the size of a batallion (and are there for also called bataillons) a brigade is a tactical formation containing like 5k troops and usually has support bataillons itselfs
Yeah I have no idea why he calls it a brigade...
I use It Dave. I use It.
Why you just agreeing with the title 💀
@@willscott1533 Nah dawg, that was a violation
The main use of ABs is to put them with non-infantry units. Tanks, AC, Art, so on. Not by itself, but in addition to the usual support companies that increase org/hp. It means you can do the Italian meme of pure armor divisions.
0:42
Actually , Both the Left Paths of Italian Communism and Italian Socialism unlock the Assault Brigade,
Just like the Il Duce path, its quite deep inside the Left Path, if i remember properly.
There are two uses for a support company that provides a lot of HP and yet reduces Organization.
One use is to create a "damage sponge" division. In practice, a division with both high Armor and high Hardness percentage already makes a good damage sponge division. There is a special feature of Hearts of Iron 4 that a collection of enemy divisions like to spread out roughly 2/3 of their attack roughly evenly, and focus the other roughly 1/3 of their attack on your division that has the lowest Organization. If you can get what is already a good damage sponge division to attract a higher percentage of enemy attacks by lowering its Organization and raising its HP, your other divisions gets attacked less, and your damage sponge division gains experience more reliably due to having a higher ratio of HP to Organization.
The other use is to raise the ratio of HP to Organization when that ratio gets uncomfortably low. Too low of a ratio means that combat can result in losing experience rather than gaining experience, due to too high of a percentage of soldiers dying before a division gives up on a fight. Accepting a military liason from another country might for example raise Organization a little too high in comparison to a division's nominal design HP, so throwing in an HP boost while subtracting some Organization might be a good enough fix to a subsequently too low ratio of HP to Organization.
Also, Italy frequently encounters low or zero national fuel reserves. Especially fuel-greedy divisions can have their Organization intentionally reduced in order to reduce combat time, and sent into combat from a nearby fallback line tile. When combat ceases due to zero Organization, the fuel-hungry division retreats or ceases its advance, and then goes to its fallback line tile in order to entrench there, and then fuel consumption by that division drops to zero since the fuel usage of an entrenching division is always zero as a game mechanic.
Some divisions with a higher than zero Armor rating are more combat effective per unit of fuel spent than other such divisions, as a result of differences in division experience and division design, so in a low or zero national fuel situation, lowering the Organization stat of divisions that are less fuel-efficient in their combat performance is a way to extract the most combat ability from a scarce fuel supply.
Equestria at war did an interesting thing where every species got a unique support company that could be upgraded through tech. It kinda became a general purpose thing that was just kind of one of your best support companies for your garrisons, breakthrough divisions, AND line infantry, because they gave a lot of stats everywhere. I feel like the base game is trying to do something similar here but just doesn't quite pull it off, with the penalties the company gives.
HP is an underrated stat. When you get it you should add it to your divisions.
It's assault BATTALION(500-1000 men), that is somehow forced into support COMPANY(100-400 men) slot. It should just be a battalion type that you unlock by a focus just like dutch and japanese get bicycle battalions.
12:04
You're forgetting that they're not mentioning any combat width changes.
So there might be benefits there, especially in certain terrains.
Didnt know it existed
I think the point of the Assault Battalions is to stack breakthrough on small special forces divisions.
You add support light tanks, engineers and assault battalions to a 10w marine or mountaineer division.
It also combos well with better infantry equipment, since assault battalions have better base breakthrough than line infantry, which gets boosted further by better guns and infantry support technology.
You want your special forces to be 10w, because you get more overall organization that way, and since they're smaller, they don't draw as much fire to themselves, because of the "new" targeting system that has been in place since NSB.
Anecdotally, I've come to the conclusion that you only need about 10 breakthrough per unit of combat width to make a division effective on the attack. So you need like 200 breakthrough on your tanks if they are 20ish width. Once you add air support and planning bonus, it's easy to win, even against expert AI.
A 10w marine division ought to have roughly 30/40 breakthrough to start with, and then you add another 6 from engineers, another 6 from assault battalions and another 28ish from light tank recon and two more decent boosts from support artillery and rocket artillery, which will get you to nearly 100. And then you train them up for an extra bonus.
Couldnt it be useful to give HP to armour divs?
yeah i done quick glancing over and it seams incredibly useful , can add a lot HP for little to no cost on medium/big divisions , dave just seams to really set on org , on medium 20 or 27 W divisions its almost zero loss , not to say you add 1 division of W2 infantry without incresing with of your divisions , so you can have 27 , or 44 with extra division , tanks especialy have low HP , and you ether add motorized(who is pricy compared to infantry) or cavalery who is expensiver infanry , and both increse its W , if we do clasic 10W tanks and 10W motorized it rises HP from 135 to 175 and org goes down just 2.7
it also not impact hardness so you can have your armor "harder" then before ,
6:03
How would it work mixed with say mountaineers?
They have a high org, don't they?
Also, unlike a infantery battalion these things don't increase the width, so you could have a 25 width mountaineers with this added for just a tiny bit more punch.
Would it be useful for 1 div paratroopers?
I was confused until I heard the words "Italy" and "focus tree" and realised I had never heard of the assault battalion for a reason
Not to "ASKUALLY" your slip of the tongue, but you call it a brigade when correcting them that it isn't a battalion. It is a support company. Brigades are closer to divisions in size, it is why some smaller division templated get called brigades.
It is one of those things I had to make a cheat sheet to help me remember when I am wanting to be precious and name my templates accurate things and of course it is one of those things that might change depending on country, service branch or time period which is always fantastic. So it is more a rule of thumb, but for English speaking countries it almost always breaks down like this;
-Army Group/Front/Region/Theater (Commanded by a Field Marshal)
-Field Army (Commanded by a General or Colonel General)
-Army Corps (Commanded by Lieutenant General or Army Corps General) (40ish widths)
-Division (Commanded by Major General or Divisional General) (20ish widths)
-Brigade (Commanded by a Brigadier General) (12ish widths)
-Regiment (Colonel) (6ish widths? I dunno)
-Battalion/Cohort (Major) (this is a single slot in the division template)
-Company/Battery (Captain) (support slot except for this one apparently?)
-Platoon/Troop (Lieutenant)
-Squad (Sargent)
-Fireteam (Corporeal)
Sounds like a good addition to the special forces if you make 1 brigade + Assault brigade you effectively just doubled the number of your SF. Although, I'm not quite sure if it's worth it to loose the org to do that. Finally, a small divisions like that would increase the cost of adding extra support companies like AA, arty or AT since those don't scale.
I think it would be really good if Paradox buffs breakthrough of assault brigade a bit more to make it stand to its name.
Am I the only one who thinks these would be great for pushing through small mountain gaps or in tight spaces like El Alamein or the Swiss mountains where every last bit of hp and damage per combat width means everything?
this makes me think of posible "moral companies"
Chaplains and political commisars
More hp or org maybe
the buff that field hospitals need is a boost to org. it makes sense, better medical care improves morale
Considering it can be paradropped and has a fixed +40hp I can see it being very useful on Paratroopers and large armour divisions
Also the reason it has suppression is because it uses infantry equipment for its stats so it gets the suppression from that.
The purpose of those assault battalions, based on the tooltip from the national focus, is to break through enemy defenses.
Right now, infantry focused divisions have poor breakthrough (by design). The assault battalions should change that by increasing breakthrough by a flat 30-40 so that the breakthrough of the 20 width infantry-only division is 60-70. Keep the organization penalty. The breakthrough infantry division will still have less breakthrough and speed than the motorized/mechanized/tank divisions, but we're not trying to replace our traditional breakthrough templates with this infantry-based breakthrough division. We're just trying to make a viable infantry-based breakthrough division template that is actually significantly better than the normal infantry division template at breakthrough.
I also think the assault battalions should be available to all nations, because Italy really doesn't need them lol. A buffed-up assault battalion would be great for minor nations that don't have the manufacturing capacity to field a lot of motorized divisions and tanks.
its kinda even more stupid if you realize its an ASSAULT BATTALION who supposed to do an ASSAULT, but the DEF and HP is bigger than its BREAKTROUGH and ORG, like what?????
support elements in military formations tend to be small compared to the size of the unit they support. Support companies in HOI are battalion size, supporting divisions. Brigades are larger, regiment-size and tend to be independently operating
I use them in my infanty for naval invasion. Assault batalion gives terrain buffs
Ironically it was originally done late war to augment Italian divisions available manpower while also giving Mussolini greater influence over the Royal Italian army so it would work more from a roleplay perspective to have it as a special infantry type
Never picked it, but for some reason I though it would be support inf option that given some urban combat bonuses. Proved wrong... if it had like 10-15% attack into urban it might be ok-ish maybe?
Its good for tank only , as it gives HP and moves with tank speed ;) just like MP
I will try Italy now for heavy tank only with defense and breaktrough balance.
This feela like a really interesting video. I'll probably rewatch it after I learn how Vanilla Div Composition works
Sounds to me like it would work well in Special Forces or Armoured divisions. Increasing the HP means less experience loss, and you shouldn't really be using those divisions in attrition warfare anyhow so the lack of organisation shouldn't be too bad. Basically anything that'll swiftly punch a hole in the enemy lines and let your infantry flow through, all while the division gets more and more elite with every enemy division it smashes to pieces.
Its super strong with Mass Assault: Mass Mobilization and Superior Firepower: Integrated Support.
Maybe you should add the assaultbatillion to paras. They might benefit from the bonus HP. So ju can spam pigeons
I think you're trying to explain it as "Jack of all Trades, Ace of Nothing" where it adds something to everything... but doesn't stand out in any way. In this game you kinda focus on one or two stats for units. Like infantry is X/Y so you heavy focus on only those. Tanks need X but also A and B. So you stack things that boost just that.
For a competitive Pokemon comparison: on a Scizor I put on choice band because he has massive Attack, and my Scizor always has Technician with priority moves, a strong stab, and a pivot. Adding a buff on a great ability (that adds a buff to my priority/pivot moves) on a great physical stat. Assault division is like... giving it Leftovers. Sure yeah it adds some HP... but it doesn't MAXIMIZE his strongest stat that you should be min/max-ing. Like giving a Garchomp choice specs... You just don't do that.
Wow I'm a nerd. In a game like HoI4 where the way you win is min/max everything... Yeah it's a little weird that they added a unique support div that... doesn't really do much. Where do you honestly use it?
I’ve played a lot of Italy post-BBA Italy and had no idea this existed
does it cap speed division speed? if not you can use it in tank divisions (spend more support eq but less motorised)
Whattttt this is stupidly broken for superior firepower meta 10 width spam.
4x infantry
1x medium tank
assault brigade
artillery
rocket artillery
AA
soft attack light recon tanks
This assault brigade is ~+20 soft attack (after 50% superior firepower bonus) and +40 HP for really not much cost at all added to this division
I guess if you put like 4 tank brigades and the assault company, you could get a pretty hard, tiny footprint assault division.
Played out early while nobody has hard attack could be pretty viable.
Hell, maybe just 1-1 it. The assault company would probably even up the organization and substantially up the HP and defense of say a single heavy tank division, while (hopefully) keeping 95% hardness.
Don't got the game running right now to check myself.
that sounds horrible
i love it
Its not bad as a 5th sup company on 40+ w marines since they get the bonus org from being special forces but that's the only use case I found.
Its not terrible on a mech brick too but honestly I'd just go AA with the mech brick not that I would go mech bricks on Italy but hey we all like a spicy meatball everyone once in a while.
Personally how Id fix it, reduce the org debuff and give it some %attack on urban and forts.
If they also gave paratroopers a %attack on urban like how marines get rivers and mountaineers get hill/mtns then that would be a nice combo to break urban tiles in Russia.
Currently though, since the "meta" is all about stacking buffs and there's not really any high cost low HP units it's not really worth the focus investment.
My initial thoughts is that it would be somewhat useful on small-ish tank divisions that lack HP and don't care super hard about their org due to high armour and breakthrough, but even then those division don't really care about HP either most of the time.
How about using them for the Special forces divisions? Offsetting low HP for virtually free (1000 manpower). I am not sure it would work, but this comes to my mind.
Would love to see you try winning a game on the hardest difficulty, with the ai on max strength
Depending on the country that's not particularly difficult, assuming you don't mean giving the ai the max major power buff. If you mean with that then you'll probably struggle unless you roach to hell on the soviets.
I used them in the Warlord Era mod pre-NSB breaking that one for good, they seemed effective.
It looks like it could be useful for mountaineers to reverse the lower hp for special forces especially for light tank or artillery heavy mountaineers or support company 10 width spam
You should also test if this gets effected by buffs of the Camicie Nere units also infantry gun's/stat increases.
Add it to tank divs.
I had no idea it existed ever after I played Italy at least 5 times
Its a bad test for garrisons, because the MP makes it so fewer battalions go into garrisons, and give suppression to the ones that stay, that's why you gain back the equipment, while the assault battalion doesn't reduce the number of battalions that go into garrisons but it gives them a flat suppression, so a combined mp + assault will have the best result, most supresion which means faster compliance gain, it should be run to see if it gives a net gain of IC of support equipment put in and lost in garrisons compared to the factories and manpower gained by high compliance
'Assault' battalion gives more defence than attack lol
best attack is a good defense.
So what if it was used for special forces? Like paratroopers? It could give more hp to the trooper for it to hold say a port or something for reinforcement (assuming your couldn't navel invade due to supremacy)
Looks good for tanks if you ask me they like the HP and cost is not as significant for your elites anyway
The fact thay the Italy focus tree is so huge with a lot of important stuff worth rushing makes it even worse
Doesn't damage to garrisons hit their hp, so the increased hp would result in less losses?
40 width tank div have around 300hp this add 40hp put one and the div gain 13% more hp making it take 12.5% less casualties for the same stats which mean for every 1000 tank you should have lost you only loses 885 allowing you 115 tank, recovery from reliability is 10% so in this case if the tanks had 100% reliability you would have kept only 100 and only if winning the battle.
So this is better than maintenance company
I use it, because meme template with 3 super heavy batalions and this is actually quite effective.
1:00 Its not a brigade either its a support company
1000 men is a battalion size
For me it's a cheap way to add Breakthrough to a light unit, for situations where tanks are dreadful or too expensive (Alpes, dessert, Pyrenees etc), the other things are just secondary. It's a cheap replacement of tanks with no logistical burden
What about adding to a small (near start of the game) tank brigade/small division?
When you were doing the garrison tests it didn't look like you gave the game time to add support equipment to your divisions. I'm guessing that while you increased the suppression so less infantry equipment needed, it would have needed to fill in support equipment which is about 8 times as much production per unit as infantry equipment. So even with a >100% number you could still be losing production by adding the battalion.
It updates instantly
Maybe with later tech military police it becomes more viable? Because the cost stays the same but the bonus from higher tech MP eventually overcomes the cost of assault brigade?
Because most people don’t know it exists lol
I didnt even know it existed
Wish stellaris had this system for planetary invasions sadge.
How about the branch to the left of that branch that can be used to rush pope but most people also tend to ignore that branch?
I think thats for 10 width infs. You add extra hp so make 10 width infs more durable.
I guess adding that brigade to your tank division or fast divisions is an easy way to throw extra manpower and HP in there without wasting 25experiance into making that design multi type.
Imagine your designs are bad, aka you have just 4 light tanks like the starting design. Cheap way to make that stack do more, would be to throw assault brigade onto it.
I guess there can be some magic designs to push 4 battalions at width of 3 into battle, and in a way have manpower/equipment advantage over enemy.
12 with infrantry into 10 width size. Basically.
does it make it any better, I doubt it, but mass assault I guess would like it.
It seems like it should be cheap in its flavour but fsr it's super expensive
Lol i like that thing, just sad its italy only
...i use it
+20 org from superior firepower...
Forget shovels only, try Assault Battalion only!
Assault Battalions seem to be good very early as a way to get better infantry divisions. By midgame it definitely loses any use.
Would it work good on special forces when you aren’t allowed to add another division
Bro I’ve been putting that shit on everything
It's a free addon to the trash militia divs
Can’t the assault battalions be upgraded through the focus tree? And the focus gives a national spirit that’s pretty good
很像是一個"MP" 但是有戰鬥力
重點是有很高的防禦，我覺得更適合在防禦海岸線上，但是能夠獲得的時間點 相當後期
基本上就是多了一隊步兵可以加入作戰中，別小看組織度較低，砲兵部隊的組織度是零，所以其實還算是有加成的
What are these neptune runes
@@zenmastakilla the one who make your phone 😎😎😎
Honestly, yeah. Sounds like a bonus, but I still don't find it worth going through the extra focuses
@@oizorref2615Chinese phones best phones. Not overpriced like iPhones. Xie Xie Zhonguo, sent via an Oppo phone.
Can it be added to special forces? Paratroppers?
I only see this useful in Infantry only divisions, where you can add some stats without adding combat width. But I’m not sure that it’s better than the regular compliment of support companies. Assume you use all the slots for something, what is this better than to replace? I don’t see anything.
What about paratroopers with this?
does it make a difference in adding it to the blackshirts?
Paradox was so worried about not making them op that they forgot to make them useful at all smh
What about paratroper and mountanier
I used it multiple times as Italy
I knew about this and used it often. Super cool.
The commie path has the same support company for italy too, it is another focus down the communist tree
the hp might be good in paras? or would the loss of org make it worse.
Combat width.
It’s great with marines
*Assault Company
Communist path also gets it, near the bottom of the tree
wow
I believe it is available for the commie path aswell
Paradox is pretty bad at designing their mechanics
First! Love you Dave!