I know it’s cringe to mention this mod in public, but field hospitals are kinda necessary in Equestria at War since pretty much every country has super low manpower pools
@@lioraselby5328 screw anyone who tells this mod is cringe! This mod is great and no one will convince me otherwise! Especially when I can add Escalation 84 and subjugate this new world in the name of Humanity!
I'll say this again regarding field hospital, the reason field hospital are useless because this game treat manpower as disposeable number thus there are no incentive that makes player had to save manpower for whatever reason while IRL losing a lot of men can also be a bad thing in production and in the face of the people esp in democratic nation, there is a reason why the operation that inspire movie saving private ryan exist and USN deploy tons of PBY to patrol and save US combatant in pacific
Yeah, if manpower losses had an effect on war support or such, they're probably be a decently big deal for certain nations. Would be nice if their effect was more like support AA and could help with all divs in a battle rather than just *this* div.
Maybe field hospitals wouldn't just reduce losses, but also war support loss due to causalities. So your country sees that you're at least trying to recoup losses
it's ridiculous how paradox makes recon useless. I mean it's one of the most important aspects of warfare, one can have millions upon millions of "soft attack" but without recon it's useless. a rifle division (sorry for my soviet, i mean infantry division of course) without any kind of recon? sounds like madness in reality, but meta in hoi4. same goes for medics and supply coys: i think there should be not bonuses, but penalties (harsh ones) for not having these. but that's a completely different story and i do understand that hoi4 is not a wargame, so...
I justified it by saying that all of these supports are in every division by default anyways and the support companies are, well, support conpanies. A company will not help a division by THAT much I guess, but then there ofc would be the problem of the rest being stronger in comparison and being quite strong for a company. It's maybe not the best of all solutions...
@@TheEpicLJ well, you are right. I mean I love Victoria, especially the economy, but the battles... Jesus. Nice of them to remove warfare from the upcoming 3rd game, I always stopped playing as soon as I managed to drag myself into a war, what a mess. Not to mention the rebellions
I don't even think this would be that hard to do. Just make it so that without field hospitals your divs hemmorage exp and instead of effecting tactic picks make recon value give straight stat modifiers as your divs can fight more effectivly.
I think the recon stat needs to be completely reworked-- historically they should be good, but they're not. As for field hospitals, signals, mp, maintenance, these companies are so useless they should just be replaced by passive upgrades in the tech tree. HOI3 black ice had an interesting way of having you select the prime mover for your division templates. That would be one way to rework recon. Leg infantry plus motorized recon should be a "semi-motorized" division. The terrain and speed modifiers could be much more significant to gameplay if they were tweaked correctly.
I definitely agree... in real life, recon - field intelligence - is of really critical importance, the awareness of enemy activity is paramount to effective operations in the field, it seems ridiculous to me that in a game attempting to emulate a historical war more or less faithfully, it is reduced to practically a waste of space. Also for that matter, where is air recon?!
@@Arbaaltheundefeated I think they should make recon stat affect the damage inflicted on the enemy. IRL, if you don't have recon, your unit won't be able to find their enemy, the artiliary will most likely randomly bomb somewhere and hope they hit something that isn't on their side, most unit will end up doing nothing. The signal company should reduce the chance of friendly fire, regardless of field or naval artiliary. In the Operation Cottage, due to bad weather, lack of recon and communication, friendly fire took 32 men's lives.
@@s1lence_tiramisu2005 signal companies should really increase defense, breakthrough, and coordination stat (more than they already do) to actually make people use them, radio companies and commanders are paramount to coordinating artillery strikes as well as tanks;. Maybe give them a bonus to artillery damage/org in the division? right now their only use is for battleplanners and it's somewhat undermined by the fact that the AI automatically knows where your battleplan orders are and moves units to defend. How can they see my battleplans if they have no intel on me? magic
Agree. I really dont like it how field hospitals are even a bad pick for nations which struggle with manpower. Also needing trucks for it is just dumb. Passive upgrade would be a great solution. Still a skip for nations with heaps of manpower but 100% worth for those with little.
Some sort of "Support company rework" is needed. Fixing recon, supply, hospitals, etc. along with maybe scaling the amount of support companies with how big your military is. And maybe adding some other support companies like field guns/light mortars which are for special forces, and provide slightly less soft attack but special forces can't use normal support arty. To me support companies are one of the weakest aspects of the game atm, especially only having 5
MP companies in combat are trash, but are vital to the garrison side of things. MP companies just equal less equipment and manpower being used in the Garrison. This can translate to +20k guns/MP upgrade for a country like Germany occupying the entirety of Europe. As the Soviets I went from 150k manpower in Cavalry Division Garrisons with no MPs to just 10k manpower armored car division garrisons with upgraded MPs
Just a tip: Interwar light tanks are better than armored cars for garrisons. They have insanely high hardness for their cost which means they take very few losses. They also only cost steel instead of Aluminum and Rubber like the armored cars. You will want to limit this to just the high resistance zones though, like ones where you have Forced Labor or High Quotas (or whatever the factories and resources garrison modes are called).
It is so niche and not worth all the xp to make that template. Usually when you conquer the entirety of Europe you are no longer short of manpower and ic to garrison it.
@@mainman879 even with NSB I find that adding the MPs and sparing 15 exp isn’t an issue. And interwar armored cars have 65% hardness with a prod. cost of 2 for 2 steel/factory
Lol, 20k guns with Germany is _nothing._ Once you capitulate a few minors, you'll quickly have 100k spare basic guns (that you'll never want to use on the front anyway because they're outdated). These days, I go with 1 cav for guns, 2 shitty cars for balance, and 1 light tank for armor and hardness. The light tanks that win early wars for Germany get nuked in the mid game, so those can go to garrisons as I transition to mediums :) (I tried going light-tank-only, but then I'd have to make extra light tanks just to fulfill the garrisons, so that didn't work - having one mil on armored cars from the start in 1936 means you'll probably have enough until late-game) That said, obviously do what works for you!
Field hospitals are not good for saving manpower but for saving the experience of important divs. Like think about a tank youbhave been using all game with field hospitals you will hit veteran much faster than without. Issue is you normaly dont have enough slots
@@sevinceur1766 True, as Tanks tend to loose more equipment than XP. And as you pointed out, Special forces gain increased mileage out of hospitals due to the way game handles special forces.
Problem is that, the slot the Field Hospital take can be replaced by something else. Like Signal/Supply, the 4 other should be sup.aa,recon,engi,signal/supply Tanks themselves takes little manpower losses
Maintenance captures equipment. Agree it's often not helpful by default, though I find myself taking advantage in some mod contexts (like KR Belgium w/o a faction). That's niche enough that D is probably fair.
Yeah I find it to be really useful early-game when playing a minor. The cost of the equipment is balanced by both not losing as much, and by the capture ratio. It's especially useful if you strategically isolate enemy divisions.
People aren't checking their combat logs enough. Reliability can save MASSIVE amounts of equipment after battles as long as they win it. Heck, there's even an unresolved bug that causes you gain equipment you didn't have due to reliability! I was getting 30 tanks plus instead of losing 50!
I just followed exactly what you said about light scout tank armor and made the tank to have 30.4 armor. It indeed made the 20 width division to have just above 5 armor and it worked so awesome in early game……..for only one battle!!! Seeing my division being pierced because its armor is 4.96 (lost just 1 tank from previous battle) is just embarrassing. Haha. Now I am adding sloped armor and converting all the existing tanks to have 35 armor. Better to have some margin. 😉
So, MP is essential for garrisons but useless otherwise. I’d put it in C because you will have garrisons. Maintenance companies are gold for small nations. I don’t see why you drop them in D and never talk about them. Their use isn’t for what it’s intended. It’s useful for equipment capture so they pay for themselves. Now if you are a major, your industry means you use the slot for something else. But, if you are small these are gold for equipment capture. It should be higher than D.
MP i would say, have some decend defense stat boosts for quite little cost - could be sometimes useful when u play a minor and need to fight from early on.
Yes. They were essential for my Lithuanian run because I just don’t have production to make the tanks myself, so I made divisions out of stolen German tanks, thanks to maintenance companies.
Is it though? Playing as one of the Chinese warlords and Egypt I feel like they add very little value relative to their cost. Begging for equipment via lend lease is so much more impactful and predictable - to the point where my factories need only to produce anti-air guns, transport planes and trains because the AI never seem to lend lease enough of them.
The field hospital should increase troop morale. The mere fact that a light or moderate wound won't lead to an amputation would make soldiers less risk-adverse on average.
I think Field Hospitals are much better on 3 specific nations. Australia, NZ, and Canada. These nations have enough production to get them in the division but very little man power. They are also 1 encirclement away from having no more man power and need to have infantry basically all over the place to hold stuff.
Agreed. Recently had a run with Canada and had field hospitals. Ended the game with a full army of 24 divisions each with maximum experience. It went until '47, without the field hospitals I'd had less than half of that army by the end.
I feel like pwople who say manpower is never an issue have nwver played anything besides a Major. When you have less than 20mil pop but have to leep a million men in the field at least to achieve anything, you have zero margin on extensive conscroption, and service by requorement adds significant production maluses, you want to avoid if possible, amd going any higher just cripples your economy. Sure militaty youth and whatever the commie equivalent is can give you a viggle room of a few hundred thousand MP, but especially with the new occupationmmechamics, that will be gone in a year.
Lots of Hoi4 Mechanics have this really weird dichotomy where you have 2 choices, one of which costs more manpower, and the other more industry. I'm guessing this is supposed to model things like manpower-mana points-money in eu4, but the problem is that in hoi4 you also never have lots of industry but no manpower. There are some countries like China where the opposite is the case, but most of the time you're either going to have lots of manpower and lots of Industry, or little of both. I guess czechoslovakia is the best example to the contrary, but even that's extremely minor.
Yeah, I think czechoslovakia is literally the only country that would use Field Hospitals. It starts with a lot of industry but little manpower because of national spirits, takes a lot of focuses to fix that problem, and even then you might run out. It also has no formables and you can only get so far by stealing your hungarian puppet's manpower
Armoured recon is actually really strong for marines/quality infantry divisions. You can stack breakthrough really high, which is a stat infantry tends to lack when attacking.
armoured recon + 2xSPG + tank is my standard for a heavy infantry template. these units kill them faster than they can reinforce, then i have my motorised+recon+eng+AA to chase them down and overrun
Never needed AT in my life in SP. Even when i got the Austria Hungary achievement backstabbing Germany in '42 on a patch where the AI did really good as them all i needed was green air and then just push around the tank, wait for it to be out of fuel and then kill it (or just kill it outright if its a shit tank).
@@lerbronk If you're a smaller nation and you're worried about manpower, you have two options that are much better than Field Hospitals: 1.) If you have the generic focus tree, go fascist and get Militarism and Military Youth. 2.) Go communist, get 35 Army XP, get Marx's picture for infinite manpower.
dont forget that Field hospital save infantry equipment. Like for some reason if a soldier whit a rifle gets hit. soldier dont recover the fallen soldiers weapon... exept for maintenance companies. Field hospital will save the soldier and its equipment.
Amen to your point on logistics companies. You either have supply or you don't. Maintenance company in D, though? You've clearly never built a tank division of scavenged enemy tanks, nor have you played a minor with no factories on guns, gaining 100-200 a day scavenged from AI.
To clarify - if you're a small or mid sized country and you're battleplanning with infantry, the maintenence company counts as a bonus 20-25% IC on guns, artillery and support equpment. Not only you lose less, but you also gain stuff from free. It's big. Really big. Especially when you're, say, killing the Soviet Union solo as Greece, or similar.
isnt the point of logistics companies that it enables you to last for longer moving from supply to no supply? if you have a -40% supply use, then the time it takes to run out of supply is 1/0.6 = 1.66 times longer. this means your tank+mech spearheads are more likely to complete encirclements instead of getting bogged down i agree the other benefit of allowing you to have 1.66x the number of units around a specific hub without oversaturating it is fringe except for very late game. but if you do end up in late game with huge stacks on every tile i think its mandatory on all units not just your armoured spearheads
@Voekov I always use it when I play as china or the Soviet Union on Ironman it’s useful to nations with alot of man power but low factories and huge equipment deficits
@@Aqueox I *love* how diplomatically _and yet_ accurately your words captured that! I feel like his channel has really taken a turn for the "lowest common denominator" over the last.... 1-2 years? 🤔 Or maybe I'm just getting old, and less interested in the bling and the memes and the outro trickery bullshit 😂
signal companies with GBP are really good. they add planing speed and reinforcement so they allow you to plan quickly and reinforce quickly before thr fight ends
I recall in my last MP game with friends I was considering if my tank divisions needed SupArt. I went back and forth and finally decided it was worth looking at; the soft attack increased by, like, 20%. Needless to say I swallowed the retraining time XD
Why are matinence in D tier? The Reliability bonus is pretty mid but that captured equipment bonus can really come in useful, it'll at least drastically decrease the amount of infantry equipment you need, they're also pretty cheap.
Captured equipment is only going to be about half of the stated value most of the time. If yiu have lvl 2 maintenance companies you are only going to capture between 4 and 5% of enemy losses in my experience. That used to have some value but now with recovery after battle it just doesn't really matter.
Even then when do you really need that? Only time I've ever made good use of maintenance company equipment recovery was doing the Finland achievement, and that was only because i conscripted like 2 million Indonesians and only had about 20 mils.
There is a pretty good upside to field hospitals- your troops don't lose exp from casualties nearly as much This means that you will have veteran infantry against someone else's trained or regular infantry. I would say B/C tier
Signal companies are under-rated. The coordination makes a huge difference if you’re using large divisions. For example 2 40w divs will focus fire on the exact same enemy division in a battle where the total enemy width is 80. That part is not random, the game is coded to deterministically select the lowest org enemy* in engagement width (2x your width). This ends up consistently putting you in the position of fighting less combat width than you’re fielding because the enemy is constantly waiting to reinforce. You can also cheese this advantage by starting an attack from one tile and then adding support attacks from adjacent tiles. You’ll have more CW fighting sooner and start eliminating divs before the enemy even fills the whole width *note the focus fire selection changes when armour and piercing is involved. This is actually an argument for putting signal company on AT inf tho
Imma disagree, and say that motorized is A or B tier. You always should have motorized anyways, and they offer a _shocking_ boost for defense. Putting them on normal infantry divisions can make a surprisingly big difference!
Yeah the defense buff to motorised is quality if im sitting troops defensively. French mountaineers with supp aa, at and mot in the tunisian mountains will hold anything
I don’t have the latest dlc, and I only have access to single player, but I love using logistic and field hospital against the AI. I often use constant pressure tactics against the ai, where my troops are always on the offensive. The field hospitals keep me from loosing to much speed and manpower, while logistic companies do so much if your practicing wave tactics as grand battle plan. I always add mechanic companies to pick up the enemies fallen weapons. Then I do recon and signal companies, depending the nation. And the ability to build signal towers. I almost never use mps. I don’t have access to flame tanks. As for the artileries I can get use out of them as front lines. More expensive, yes. But I can get more bonuses if I put them frontline then taking up support slots, and mechanics help keep them repaired so replacing them is minimal. Engineers are always useful.
Don't necessarily agree about recon being bad, at least in a multiplayer sense, if your infantry doesn't have any recon and your opponent's does, it essentially gives away the recon advantage. Recon also provides a bit of a stat boost that can be significant for the common scenario where you have more divisions than the combat width provides for. The 10% speed buff in basically all terrain can also come in clutch both offensively and defensively.
How is MP so low though? Like, sure, it should never be in ANY combat division. But with a 20w cav which most nations can get easily, they're help a lot for garrison
Flame tank reliability is still irrelevant right? When you were showing the Marine template with heavy flame tank, did you upgrade the armor to 20 on the tank? Sounds really nice for Special Forces France.
The average field hospital enjoyer. Supplies use items you are already making for other things anyway allowing industry to concentrate on those. Doesn't require fuel. Can _create_ manpower as Switzerland. Saves EXP Can be easily attached to any division. Sense of moral superiority.
Upgraded MPs work fine in 5 Cav + MP garrisons, or 5 Armoured Car + MP Garrisons, but they're a drain on support equipment and if you don't care about manpower (or can get it from puppets), MP doesn't really help.
@@71Cloak depends on level of resistance the minimum number of equipment a resistance attack can cost is 1, so any attack that wont kill 2x armoured car is better ic wise to use ac for vs light tank. ofc for high resistance where equipment losses are high, the number rounding is less impactful
This is pretty brilliant! Here's a question, though - if you're only doing Armored Recon for the armor added to the division, and Medium Flame offers armor as well as all the other stuff, wouldn't that mean you're just better off adding Medium Flame over ANY use case for Armored Recon? (except for the mentioned useless bonuses to speed and recon.) I mean, hell, you can even push it (relatively easily) all the way up to the point where you get 16 Armor in an Inf division and then not even German AI is going to pierce!
I've been playing MP lately and the reason there is barely any armor on the medium tanks is because of AT (support and line). You know that the bigger economies are going to make tanks, so you make AT for the hard attack that it provides. By getting that hard attack you automatically get a high pierce value that can pen most tank divisions that spend ic in armor. So from that point there isn't really a reason to get armor on the tanks, because they get pierced anyway. Signal companies are mediocre in SP, but in MP that reinforcement speed is essential for your defending infantry if you have no mass mob.
With the no armor tank build what are you talking about? I’ve literally never seen that in multiplayer, everyone goes for high engine and armor now that over 9 no longer requires chromium, and it’s not like steel is super rare either
Donc ask my why, i read "4chan support Company Tier list" and i thought it would be a tier list of 4Chan support or not and when the video start i was confuse as hell
Field Hospitals are very useful if you grind your divisions for like most of the game i had one situation where ai had good defensive positions and i needed to expand so i put these on because my divisions were making cassaulties on both sides in millions so i was just grinding them while ai got in long term more exhausted than my country it was late game without them it would be impossible i would be dead even with tanks ai just had too much stuff for modern tanks to pierce
I find maintenance companies really useful for countries with a small economy so you can collect the weapons from enemies. If you tactically outmanoeuvre the enemey, especially encircle, you collect so many weapons that you don't need as many factories, especially infantry weapons.
i usually equip field hospital, engineering company, maintenance company, artillery and logistics if i play as japan but in other runs, just depends on the situation
Rocket artillery should be alongside normal artillery in S-tier. Yes it's a late tech, yes it gives less soft attack, but it's VERY cheap and having it in your average 14W infantry blocks will drastically increase their soft attack at a very low cost
technically the mod that extends unit levels to absurd heights makes the field hospitals unironically useful from the largely decreased xp loss in combat
I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must. Armored recon is also a massive plus for any early division, although vastly more expensive. (1000 light tanks w/ support gun and entrenching is still very manageable and good in early game). I also think engineers are better than artillery bonus, as you can always win if you defend good enough and even the biggest campaigns need to slow down and at best, cause a stalemate. Engineers all the way.
"I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must." Upgrade the railways and get a logistics wizard out of grinding in Spain and you will be more than fine. No need for the logistics companies.
Light tank recon that has armor less than 10 isn’t worthwhile anymore or it’ll be too expensive if you make one. Just make heavy flame tank with ton of armor.
Recon is only useful when you go GBP right and get the Aggressive Reconnaissance upgrade for 50 xp. Because you'll have not one but two tactics that can't be countered, having superior recon will make you win almost every battle.
I dunno where this "AI doesn't do piercing" thing comes from, it seems most of the time the AI brings anti tank guns out against me even when I have no tanks.
The ai never really builds a good amount of at in the early to mid game. You need to be 1943 or later for the ai to really have at in most of it divisions.
Nope. It's good for defense only because you have higher chance to counter enemy tactics, granted you have selected right countertactic: AI will never do something like that.
No. You'd think so, right? But most attacking tactics can get countered by defensive tactics, whereas most defensive tactics cannot be countered by attacking tactics. That's the difference.
why is speed useless? the 2 most decisive tactical mechanics in the game ive found are encirclement and overrun and speed is essential for these. if you have recon, eng, green air, blue supply then any battle win with a motorised unit vs an infantry will simply wipe them out. and with eng you dont even need motorised to overrun a bridgehead a lot of the time. if you have eng and they dont and are retreating with river speed debuff, even your infantry can overrun them half the time. you can really see the benefit in mountains too if you use mountaineers. mountaineers + recon, in any won battle vs normal infantry can often just wipe out every stack they beat in battle. i found this strat is best when you use SPG as well. because then with 2-3 SPG in your div you kill them faster than they can reinforce. so you can have just a few SPG+mech+tank+recon+eng divisions smash their frontline, then wipe out a stack of any size. synergises really well with the improv expert perk to stack even more speed, and the logistics expert perk to get that temp blue supply buff even in a supply desert. time it for just as you win a battle and suddenly you are like 4x faster than the enemy and easily overrun also i think youre underselling motorised recon. it gives the biggest defence buff of the recons, pretty substantial. think i got about +15% defence on a 7/2 for barbarossa last time i checked. but the light armour recon has better breakthrough. also the speed buff for infantry means your chances of losing a battle vs a motorised division and making it to the next tile is much better too.
I know this is a year late but i think field hospitals are very good for the latest dlc for south america. Unless you go with one of the "core the entire continent" paths you have no manpower as any of the nations
I don't know where the "Ai doesn't build peircing" myth even come from, but from late 1939 I always encounter AI with at least anti air or anti tank so 5 or 10 armor from recon tank is basically trash and I've never had success using it, except when playing Japan and use them agaisnt China
It's not so much that it never builds divisions with piercing, it's that the AI builds three quintillion different templates. Some templates have anti tank or Anti Air in them, most don't, but you never know which one is gonna be deployed
Really because the soviet don't normally have at or aa in their divisions for barb. Really only germany consistently gets piercing on their divisions becuase they normally build aa.
Coordination bonuses are largely irrelevant. The bonus only applies to you bonus coordination. So if you have 10 bonus coordination, signal 2 will make that 13. When attacking 2 targets that will increase damage on main target by 1.5%. That's sooo good.
@@71Cloak But almost all offensive tactics have counters. 10% faster means I might pull off maneuvers like encirclements because I am faster than my enemy
@@marthvader14 on tanks you will already be faster, with infantry you can just apply the air superiority debuff and slow down the enemy. Recon countering offensive tactics is nice but not that valuable. Its about a 5% buff to your division pre-NSB. Post NSB you can just set the counter to your enemies prefered tactic manually. Plus infantry is already way better on the defensive and doesn't really need the help. Tanks aren't going to care if their tactics get countered and infantry probably weren't going to win to start with.
Maintenance on tanks is only good if you already have high reliability tanks ti start with. The bonus is multiplicative not additive. Its only good when you don't need it.
@@71Cloak well, I typically design my tanks for 90% reliability. 1939 maintenance gives 10% which would put my tanks at 99% reliability. Would that be worth it?
@@Bruh-ff2tw at 90% you're already not taking much in the way of attrition losses anyway. Unless you like driving into mountains for skiing trips with your tanks constantly you don't need them.
I feel like engineers are overvalued. The entrenchment is nice, but critical situations don't depend on it. It also gets less useful the more you have, so on GBP or MA, I usually skip over. As for terrain bonuses, they aren't that great. Mostly movement across rivers. Anyway, I think they are pretty good, but not always useful, so A tier rather than S tier. 30 support equipment is also rather expensive
I always use engineer companies when I plan to do a lot of fighting in mountains/across rivers, but don't have the special forces cap for a lot of marines/mountaineers.
Logistic companies is only worth in my opinion if you play single player and max boost your enemies. So then you have to stack divisions in 1 tile in some areas to hold the line, then they become very valuable. Other than that its basically worthless like you said "if your in the subbly hub range you have supply if youre not you dont have supply", simple is that 😃
1 entrenchment is a 2% buff to stats o the defensive if you are actually making use of that entrenchment. Holding isn't something you really need to worry about in most cases you are going to be using armoured recon.
imagine if recon companies gave you intel on strength & org of enemy divisions nearby. Right now the issue of hoi4 being not "realistic" is that you play as some all-powerful being with full information on frontline enemy divisions, so recon companies are just redundant
Tbh I believe that playing against bots as a minor , in mods for example , cav recon is very nice . You place it in infantry’s divisions , so you don’t care about speed that much, it’s also very cheap , I don’t think that with 15 mils some can build a strong 40 div army with tank recon and all other supports. Hence I believe that cav recon isn’t useless really.
org is completely overrated. especially in SP you should put arty and AA in everything. exception is if you’re doing a very explicit org spam strategy where you let the AI cycle against 2-10w infantry or cav while you encircle and VP snipe with tanks, but for actually pushing org is not the stat to design around
@@oldpersonmc18yearold46 yeah even with just infantry if you can outlive the amount of soft attack inflicted by an enemy before their org runs out then their dead in the water, I use pure mechanised with the left side of the mobile warfare doctorine and over 100 org on pure mech 20 widths is op as hell, I never bothered with arty but I may have to try that now ( this does require some kind of air coverage due to how powerful air is in this update but I suppose a little AA wouldn’t nerf them too much in the org department)
@@hawkerben1158 no you’re misunderstanding. if you’re using high-cost, high(ish)-output units like mech, tanks, inf with line arty, etc. then boosting your output even further is way better than 5-10 extra org. you’ll win “harder” basically. the only time you wouldn’t want the extra cost-effectiveness more than the org is if you were doing the true optimal SP strategy of light/medium tanks and a million 2-4w cavalry. where the cavalry exist to die and snake while your tanks make a million holes in the AI’s lines
Lol, 20 width mech is not OP as hell, it's _expensive_ as hell 😆 Org is great on defense, I've found. Usually means my infantry can hold without taking any losses, while my tanks have the breakthrough to attack without any losses. But I play as the weird Hitler who cared about human lives 😆
Tbh, you're wrong. By not-losing, you'll lose way less equipment, so you don't need as many mils. (the effect becomes insane, later, when production efficiency creeps up)
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Field hospitals have one thing that makes it S+++ tier for me. The so-called "Smug sense of moral superiority"
I know it’s cringe to mention this mod in public, but field hospitals are kinda necessary in Equestria at War since pretty much every country has super low manpower pools
@@lioraselby5328 screw anyone who tells this mod is cringe! This mod is great and no one will convince me otherwise!
Especially when I can add Escalation 84 and subjugate this new world in the name of Humanity!
@@lioraselby5328 mod aint cringe if it's better than 90% of other mods fr
@@lioraselby5328 *ponypower
@@kalimatronix wait there's a submod that brings people to the EaW universe. oh no, I can only imagine why they created it
I'll say this again regarding field hospital, the reason field hospital are useless because this game treat manpower as disposeable number thus there are no incentive that makes player had to save manpower for whatever reason while IRL losing a lot of men can also be a bad thing in production and in the face of the people esp in democratic nation, there is a reason why the operation that inspire movie saving private ryan exist and USN deploy tons of PBY to patrol and save US combatant in pacific
Yeah, if manpower losses had an effect on war support or such, they're probably be a decently big deal for certain nations.
Would be nice if their effect was more like support AA and could help with all divs in a battle rather than just *this* div.
No, no. Field hospital not saves manpower actually, it saves your veteran divisions.
Maybe field hospitals wouldn't just reduce losses, but also war support loss due to causalities. So your country sees that you're at least trying to recoup losses
Well tbh, you're better off just putting companies in that make your stats better so you loose less in the first place, and win more battles
With the new dev diary manpower losses will lower your war support, so I think that field hospitals are gonna get buffed somehow
it's ridiculous how paradox makes recon useless. I mean it's one of the most important aspects of warfare, one can have millions upon millions of "soft attack" but without recon it's useless. a rifle division (sorry for my soviet, i mean infantry division of course) without any kind of recon? sounds like madness in reality, but meta in hoi4.
same goes for medics and supply coys: i think there should be not bonuses, but penalties (harsh ones) for not having these. but that's a completely different story and i do understand that hoi4 is not a wargame, so...
Given this opinion it sounds like you should play Victoria 2
I justified it by saying that all of these supports are in every division by default anyways and the support companies are, well, support conpanies. A company will not help a division by THAT much I guess, but then there ofc would be the problem of the rest being stronger in comparison and being quite strong for a company. It's maybe not the best of all solutions...
@@TheEpicLJ well, you are right. I mean I love Victoria, especially the economy, but the battles... Jesus. Nice of them to remove warfare from the upcoming 3rd game, I always stopped playing as soon as I managed to drag myself into a war, what a mess. Not to mention the rebellions
I suggest you look into the Total War mod, really underrated and great for historical divisions
I don't even think this would be that hard to do. Just make it so that without field hospitals your divs hemmorage exp and instead of effecting tactic picks make recon value give straight stat modifiers as your divs can fight more effectivly.
i don't care if field hospitals suck, i feel better knowing my soldiers can be safe if they are wounded
Chad "it just makes me feel better" VS virgin Meta player
just suffer 0 casualties smh
but needle huwt :c
I love how things which were useful and made sense plus being used in large amounts in real life gets completely screwed over when Paradox makes them.
I think the recon stat needs to be completely reworked-- historically they should be good, but they're not. As for field hospitals, signals, mp, maintenance, these companies are so useless they should just be replaced by passive upgrades in the tech tree. HOI3 black ice had an interesting way of having you select the prime mover for your division templates. That would be one way to rework recon. Leg infantry plus motorized recon should be a "semi-motorized" division. The terrain and speed modifiers could be much more significant to gameplay if they were tweaked correctly.
I definitely agree... in real life, recon - field intelligence - is of really critical importance, the awareness of enemy activity is paramount to effective operations in the field, it seems ridiculous to me that in a game attempting to emulate a historical war more or less faithfully, it is reduced to practically a waste of space. Also for that matter, where is air recon?!
yeah, as it currently stands I feel like in most circumstances you can achieve the same net effect, only better with Engineers.
@@Arbaaltheundefeated I think they should make recon stat affect the damage inflicted on the enemy. IRL, if you don't have recon, your unit won't be able to find their enemy, the artiliary will most likely randomly bomb somewhere and hope they hit something that isn't on their side, most unit will end up doing nothing. The signal company should reduce the chance of friendly fire, regardless of field or naval artiliary. In the Operation Cottage, due to bad weather, lack of recon and communication, friendly fire took 32 men's lives.
@@s1lence_tiramisu2005 signal companies should really increase defense, breakthrough, and coordination stat (more than they already do) to actually make people use them, radio companies and commanders are paramount to coordinating artillery strikes as well as tanks;. Maybe give them a bonus to artillery damage/org in the division? right now their only use is for battleplanners and it's somewhat undermined by the fact that the AI automatically knows where your battleplan orders are and moves units to defend. How can they see my battleplans if they have no intel on me? magic
Agree. I really dont like it how field hospitals are even a bad pick for nations which struggle with manpower. Also needing trucks for it is just dumb. Passive upgrade would be a great solution. Still a skip for nations with heaps of manpower but 100% worth for those with little.
Some sort of "Support company rework" is needed. Fixing recon, supply, hospitals, etc. along with maybe scaling the amount of support companies with how big your military is. And maybe adding some other support companies like field guns/light mortars which are for special forces, and provide slightly less soft attack but special forces can't use normal support arty. To me support companies are one of the weakest aspects of the game atm, especially only having 5
I’d say a neat idea is mountaineer/support companies that add small bonuses to their respective terrain
@@seangallagher9435 oh man that'd save me a lot of pain in the A I'd love that
MP companies in combat are trash, but are vital to the garrison side of things. MP companies just equal less equipment and manpower being used in the Garrison. This can translate to +20k guns/MP upgrade for a country like Germany occupying the entirety of Europe. As the Soviets I went from 150k manpower in Cavalry Division Garrisons with no MPs to just 10k manpower armored car division garrisons with upgraded MPs
Just a tip: Interwar light tanks are better than armored cars for garrisons. They have insanely high hardness for their cost which means they take very few losses. They also only cost steel instead of Aluminum and Rubber like the armored cars.
You will want to limit this to just the high resistance zones though, like ones where you have Forced Labor or High Quotas (or whatever the factories and resources garrison modes are called).
It is so niche and not worth all the xp to make that template.
Usually when you conquer the entirety of Europe you are no longer short of manpower and ic to garrison it.
@@chenyangli9777 it costs 5 XP to make the template. 2 width is all you need, no MP.
@@mainman879 even with NSB I find that adding the MPs and sparing 15 exp isn’t an issue. And interwar armored cars have 65% hardness with a prod. cost of 2 for 2 steel/factory
Lol, 20k guns with Germany is _nothing._
Once you capitulate a few minors, you'll quickly have 100k spare basic guns (that you'll never want to use on the front anyway because they're outdated).
These days, I go with 1 cav for guns, 2 shitty cars for balance, and 1 light tank for armor and hardness.
The light tanks that win early wars for Germany get nuked in the mid game, so those can go to garrisons as I transition to mediums :)
(I tried going light-tank-only, but then I'd have to make extra light tanks just to fulfill the garrisons, so that didn't work - having one mil on armored cars from the start in 1936 means you'll probably have enough until late-game)
That said, obviously do what works for you!
Field hospitals are not good for saving manpower but for saving the experience of important divs. Like think about a tank youbhave been using all game with field hospitals you will hit veteran much faster than without. Issue is you normaly dont have enough slots
Tanks generally don’t take enough losses to lose any significant amount of xp. It works better on special forces I think.
@@sevinceur1766 True, as Tanks tend to loose more equipment than XP. And as you pointed out, Special forces gain increased mileage out of hospitals due to the way game handles special forces.
Problem is that, the slot the Field Hospital take can be replaced by something else. Like Signal/Supply, the 4 other should be sup.aa,recon,engi,signal/supply
Tanks themselves takes little manpower losses
I feel like as time goes on divisons lose exp, and I wrong?
@@NotFinnish they loose exp when they take losses to manpower, and when you edit their templates.
Maintenance captures equipment. Agree it's often not helpful by default, though I find myself taking advantage in some mod contexts (like KR Belgium w/o a faction). That's niche enough that D is probably fair.
Yeah I find it to be really useful early-game when playing a minor. The cost of the equipment is balanced by both not losing as much, and by the capture ratio. It's especially useful if you strategically isolate enemy divisions.
@@juvandy had a small armor core as Venezuela from stealing an entire soviet tank division in the Spanish Civil wae.
@@messydeskproductions4159 based, why buy tank when steal is good?
People aren't checking their combat logs enough. Reliability can save MASSIVE amounts of equipment after battles as long as they win it. Heck, there's even an unresolved bug that causes you gain equipment you didn't have due to reliability! I was getting 30 tanks plus instead of losing 50!
I just followed exactly what you said about light scout tank armor and made the tank to have 30.4 armor. It indeed made the 20 width division to have just above 5 armor and it worked so awesome in early game……..for only one battle!!!
Seeing my division being pierced because its armor is 4.96 (lost just 1 tank from previous battle) is just embarrassing. Haha.
Now I am adding sloped armor and converting all the existing tanks to have 35 armor.
Better to have some margin. 😉
So, MP is essential for garrisons but useless otherwise. I’d put it in C because you will have garrisons.
Maintenance companies are gold for small nations. I don’t see why you drop them in D and never talk about them. Their use isn’t for what it’s intended. It’s useful for equipment capture so they pay for themselves. Now if you are a major, your industry means you use the slot for something else. But, if you are small these are gold for equipment capture. It should be higher than D.
MP i would say, have some decend defense stat boosts for quite little cost - could be sometimes useful when u play a minor and need to fight from early on.
you dont capture enough equipment for it to matter until you get like 1943 tech at which point the war is already decided
Maintenance is pretty underated. They are actually useful for countries that lack industry (stealing equipment).
Yes. They were essential for my Lithuanian run because I just don’t have production to make the tanks myself, so I made divisions out of stolen German tanks, thanks to maintenance companies.
Is it though? Playing as one of the Chinese warlords and Egypt I feel like they add very little value relative to their cost. Begging for equipment via lend lease is so much more impactful and predictable - to the point where my factories need only to produce anti-air guns, transport planes and trains because the AI never seem to lend lease enough of them.
@@tetleydidley Well, nothing can compete with mechanics abuse.
The field hospital should increase troop morale. The mere fact that a light or moderate wound won't lead to an amputation would make soldiers less risk-adverse on average.
Mvndi
I think Field Hospitals are much better on 3 specific nations. Australia, NZ, and Canada. These nations have enough production to get them in the division but very little man power. They are also 1 encirclement away from having no more man power and need to have infantry basically all over the place to hold stuff.
Agreed. Recently had a run with Canada and had field hospitals. Ended the game with a full army of 24 divisions each with maximum experience. It went until '47, without the field hospitals I'd had less than half of that army by the end.
They are also good for 30 minutes of Hel, saving that extra bit of manpower as poland can really help
Also Italy and Romania
I feel like pwople who say manpower is never an issue have nwver played anything besides a Major.
When you have less than 20mil pop but have to leep a million men in the field at least to achieve anything, you have zero margin on extensive conscroption, and service by requorement adds significant production maluses, you want to avoid if possible, amd going any higher just cripples your economy. Sure militaty youth and whatever the commie equivalent is can give you a viggle room of a few hundred thousand MP, but especially with the new occupationmmechamics, that will be gone in a year.
Lots of Hoi4 Mechanics have this really weird dichotomy where you have 2 choices, one of which costs more manpower, and the other more industry. I'm guessing this is supposed to model things like manpower-mana points-money in eu4, but the problem is that in hoi4 you also never have lots of industry but no manpower. There are some countries like China where the opposite is the case, but most of the time you're either going to have lots of manpower and lots of Industry, or little of both. I guess czechoslovakia is the best example to the contrary, but even that's extremely minor.
Yeah, I think czechoslovakia is literally the only country that would use Field Hospitals. It starts with a lot of industry but little manpower because of national spirits, takes a lot of focuses to fix that problem, and even then you might run out. It also has no formables and you can only get so far by stealing your hungarian puppet's manpower
Armoured recon is actually really strong for marines/quality infantry divisions. You can stack breakthrough really high, which is a stat infantry tends to lack when attacking.
armoured recon + 2xSPG + tank is my standard for a heavy infantry template. these units kill them faster than they can reinforce, then i have my motorised+recon+eng+AA to chase them down and overrun
Why is red good and green bad ???
He's Chinese maybe lol
That's just how the tier lists are
I don't know. I didn't make the site. Green being good make way more sense.
Maybe red is best coz item rarity is usually shown as white-green-blue-yellow-orange-red or variations of it
Red is dangerous, green is safe
Never needed AT in my life in SP. Even when i got the Austria Hungary achievement backstabbing Germany in '42 on a patch where the AI did really good as them all i needed was green air and then just push around the tank, wait for it to be out of fuel and then kill it (or just kill it outright if its a shit tank).
Field hospitals also makes your divisions lose less xp and you can remove them later on, to get your manpower back^^
...and lose some experience due to template change
Experience retention is largely irrelevant. Over the course of an entire barb it was worth maybe 5% of the way to level 4 on infantry.
@@71Cloak how about tickleback? is it worth for smaller nation?
@@lerbronk If you're a smaller nation and you're worried about manpower, you have two options that are much better than Field Hospitals:
1.) If you have the generic focus tree, go fascist and get Militarism and Military Youth.
2.) Go communist, get 35 Army XP, get Marx's picture for infinite manpower.
dont forget that Field hospital save infantry equipment.
Like for some reason if a soldier whit a rifle gets hit. soldier dont recover the fallen soldiers weapon... exept for maintenance companies.
Field hospital will save the soldier and its equipment.
Amen to your point on logistics companies. You either have supply or you don't. Maintenance company in D, though? You've clearly never built a tank division of scavenged enemy tanks, nor have you played a minor with no factories on guns, gaining 100-200 a day scavenged from AI.
To clarify - if you're a small or mid sized country and you're battleplanning with infantry, the maintenence company counts as a bonus 20-25% IC on guns, artillery and support equpment. Not only you lose less, but you also gain stuff from free. It's big. Really big. Especially when you're, say, killing the Soviet Union solo as Greece, or similar.
isnt the point of logistics companies that it enables you to last for longer moving from supply to no supply? if you have a -40% supply use, then the time it takes to run out of supply is 1/0.6 = 1.66 times longer. this means your tank+mech spearheads are more likely to complete encirclements instead of getting bogged down
i agree the other benefit of allowing you to have 1.66x the number of units around a specific hub without oversaturating it is fringe except for very late game. but if you do end up in late game with huge stacks on every tile i think its mandatory on all units not just your armoured spearheads
@@Six_slotted it also lovers the supplie ussedge this might in some case be enouth to turn a zone from a no supplies to low supplies.
@Voekov I always use it when I play as china or the Soviet Union on Ironman it’s useful to nations with alot of man power but low factories and huge equipment deficits
@Voekov I’m talking about maintenance companies
I'd love to see you argue with FeedbackGaming. His tier list for support companies is much more different
Much better than feedbacks tierlist
That was pretty shit right? 🤣
@@MrNicoJac It's Feedback. He's...
He's got spirit. I'll give him that.
@@Aqueox
I *love* how diplomatically _and yet_ accurately your words captured that!
I feel like his channel has really taken a turn for the "lowest common denominator" over the last.... 1-2 years? 🤔
Or maybe I'm just getting old, and less interested in the bling and the memes and the outro trickery bullshit 😂
signal companies with GBP are really good. they add planing speed and reinforcement so they allow you to plan quickly and reinforce quickly before thr fight ends
dude your channel is so awesome im learning so much about the game thank you so much
I've been looking forward to this, thank you.
I recall in my last MP game with friends I was considering if my tank divisions needed SupArt. I went back and forth and finally decided it was worth looking at; the soft attack increased by, like, 20%. Needless to say I swallowed the retraining time XD
Why are matinence in D tier? The Reliability bonus is pretty mid but that captured equipment bonus can really come in useful, it'll at least drastically decrease the amount of infantry equipment you need, they're also pretty cheap.
Captured equipment is only going to be about half of the stated value most of the time. If yiu have lvl 2 maintenance companies you are only going to capture between 4 and 5% of enemy losses in my experience.
That used to have some value but now with recovery after battle it just doesn't really matter.
@@71Cloak according to my tests they can basically make it so you don't have to produce many guns, freeing up alot of mils
@@71Cloak 'recovery after battle' what is this and when was it added? Are you saying there's another value that gives you looted equipment?
@@CM-db5cg when you win you recover equipment. It was added in NSB.
Even then when do you really need that? Only time I've ever made good use of maintenance company equipment recovery was doing the Finland achievement, and that was only because i conscripted like 2 million Indonesians and only had about 20 mils.
There is a pretty good upside to field hospitals- your troops don't lose exp from casualties nearly as much
This means that you will have veteran infantry against someone else's trained or regular infantry.
I would say B/C tier
Recon let's me see my enemies lines and how thick they are. It's useless statewise. But I dont want to see question mark over ever enemy division
Signal companies are under-rated. The coordination makes a huge difference if you’re using large divisions. For example 2 40w divs will focus fire on the exact same enemy division in a battle where the total enemy width is 80. That part is not random, the game is coded to deterministically select the lowest org enemy* in engagement width (2x your width). This ends up consistently putting you in the position of fighting less combat width than you’re fielding because the enemy is constantly waiting to reinforce. You can also cheese this advantage by starting an attack from one tile and then adding support attacks from adjacent tiles. You’ll have more CW fighting sooner and start eliminating divs before the enemy even fills the whole width
*note the focus fire selection changes when armour and piercing is involved. This is actually an argument for putting signal company on AT inf tho
Yeah, signal compani is very good for offensive units
I think an amzing tier list to do would be each individual troop type I.E. Motoized Anti-tank, super heavy tank, infantry, cavalry etc
Spread Sheet tier list when?
Excel S tier, google sheets A tier. The rest trash.
@@71Cloak hell yeah bought time
Imma disagree, and say that motorized is A or B tier.
You always should have motorized anyways, and they offer a _shocking_ boost for defense.
Putting them on normal infantry divisions can make a surprisingly big difference!
Yeah the defense buff to motorised is quality if im sitting troops defensively. French mountaineers with supp aa, at and mot in the tunisian mountains will hold anything
I also think he is a bit harsh on cavalry recon... It's early tech meant to be replaced as soon as you got the eco for it!
@@fosphor8920
I think the problem is that recon companies aren’t really good at their job of giving RECON
I don’t have the latest dlc, and I only have access to single player, but I love using logistic and field hospital against the AI. I often use constant pressure tactics against the ai, where my troops are always on the offensive. The field hospitals keep me from loosing to much speed and manpower, while logistic companies do so much if your practicing wave tactics as grand battle plan. I always add mechanic companies to pick up the enemies fallen weapons. Then I do recon and signal companies, depending the nation. And the ability to build signal towers. I almost never use mps. I don’t have access to flame tanks. As for the artileries I can get use out of them as front lines. More expensive, yes. But I can get more bonuses if I put them frontline then taking up support slots, and mechanics help keep them repaired so replacing them is minimal. Engineers are always useful.
Don't necessarily agree about recon being bad, at least in a multiplayer sense, if your infantry doesn't have any recon and your opponent's does, it essentially gives away the recon advantage. Recon also provides a bit of a stat boost that can be significant for the common scenario where you have more divisions than the combat width provides for. The 10% speed buff in basically all terrain can also come in clutch both offensively and defensively.
How is MP so low though? Like, sure, it should never be in ANY combat division. But with a 20w cav which most nations can get easily, they're help a lot for garrison
Needs to be redone now, companies give other bonuses now like recon gives +10% soft attack to line arty
AA also has piercing which makes the company a good all rounder and a must have in all situations
The flame tank company was also a must have but it was unfortunately nerfed
Flame tank reliability is still irrelevant right? When you were showing the Marine template with heavy flame tank, did you upgrade the armor to 20 on the tank? Sounds really nice for Special Forces France.
I'm pretty certain I went to 17 on the heavy flame tank. The last armour tech is really late game.
@@71Cloak I think heavy flame tank is still good when you focus on armor to build space marine even pdx just patched light tank recon.
Reliability of anything less than 20 units of that equipment in a division doesn't matter iirc.
The average field hospital enjoyer.
Supplies use items you are already making for other things anyway allowing industry to concentrate on those.
Doesn't require fuel.
Can _create_ manpower as Switzerland.
Saves EXP
Can be easily attached to any division.
Sense of moral superiority.
tfw you heal someone so good he splits in 2
Upgraded MPs work fine in 5 Cav + MP garrisons, or 5 Armoured Car + MP Garrisons, but they're a drain on support equipment and if you don't care about manpower (or can get it from puppets), MP doesn't really help.
You shouldn't use armoured cars. Light tanks are cheaper and have the same suppression with more hardness.
@@71Cloak depends on level of resistance
the minimum number of equipment a resistance attack can cost is 1, so any attack that wont kill 2x armoured car is better ic wise to use ac for vs light tank. ofc for high resistance where equipment losses are high, the number rounding is less impactful
Appreciate your content for the brevity and lack of lengthy ad reads
*cough* feedbackgaming *cough*
Maybe if casualties affected war support field hospitals would be worth it.
This is pretty brilliant! Here's a question, though - if you're only doing Armored Recon for the armor added to the division, and Medium Flame offers armor as well as all the other stuff, wouldn't that mean you're just better off adding Medium Flame over ANY use case for Armored Recon? (except for the mentioned useless bonuses to speed and recon.) I mean, hell, you can even push it (relatively easily) all the way up to the point where you get 16 Armor in an Inf division and then not even German AI is going to pierce!
I've been playing MP lately and the reason there is barely any armor on the medium tanks is because of AT (support and line). You know that the bigger economies are going to make tanks, so you make AT for the hard attack that it provides. By getting that hard attack you automatically get a high pierce value that can pen most tank divisions that spend ic in armor. So from that point there isn't really a reason to get armor on the tanks, because they get pierced anyway.
Signal companies are mediocre in SP, but in MP that reinforcement speed is essential for your defending infantry if you have no mass mob.
29.8M Casualties... I think we need hospitals I have all of Slavs as cores and I am running out on Scraping
I love spotters tho. Just make spotting and artillery.
I like field hospitals for RP in single player/mp with friends.
Also xp is nice.
With the no armor tank build what are you talking about? I’ve literally never seen that in multiplayer, everyone goes for high engine and armor now that over 9 no longer requires chromium, and it’s not like steel is super rare either
Donc ask my why, i read "4chan support Company Tier list" and i thought it would be a tier list of 4Chan support or not and when the video start i was confuse as hell
Field Hospitals are very useful if you grind your divisions for like most of the game i had one situation where ai had good defensive positions and i needed to expand so i put these on because my divisions were making cassaulties on both sides in millions so i was just grinding them while ai got in long term more exhausted than my country it was late game without them it would be impossible i would be dead even with tanks ai just had too much stuff for modern tanks to pierce
I find maintenance companies really useful for countries with a small economy so you can collect the weapons from enemies. If you tactically outmanoeuvre the enemey, especially encircle, you collect so many weapons that you don't need as many factories, especially infantry weapons.
i usually equip field hospital, engineering company, maintenance company, artillery and logistics if i play as japan but in other runs, just depends on the situation
Rocket artillery should be alongside normal artillery in S-tier. Yes it's a late tech, yes it gives less soft attack, but it's VERY cheap and having it in your average 14W infantry blocks will drastically increase their soft attack at a very low cost
technically the mod that extends unit levels to absurd heights makes the field hospitals unironically useful from the largely decreased xp loss in combat
I know this video was made for NSB, but in BBA, Switzerland + Field Hospitals = nearly immortal soldiers. still a meh add though in that situation
why don't we have mechanized recon company???
I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must.
Armored recon is also a massive plus for any early division, although vastly more expensive. (1000 light tanks w/ support gun and entrenching is still very manageable and good in early game).
I also think engineers are better than artillery bonus, as you can always win if you defend good enough and even the biggest campaigns need to slow down and at best, cause a stalemate. Engineers all the way.
"I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must."
Upgrade the railways and get a logistics wizard out of grinding in Spain and you will be more than fine. No need for the logistics companies.
Doesn't matter who you are
Artillery is always #1 in our hearts
Field hospitals with Switzerland specifically can be absolutely broken
Light tank recon that has armor less than 10 isn’t worthwhile anymore or it’ll be too expensive if you make one. Just make heavy flame tank with ton of armor.
Love all these videos!
Hoi4 meme strat tier list
Strategic bombers only S tier meme strat on germany.
Shouldn't logistic be S grade? To be frank, I think flame tank is too op now
Recon is only useful when you go GBP right and get the Aggressive Reconnaissance upgrade for 50 xp. Because you'll have not one but two tactics that can't be countered, having superior recon will make you win almost every battle.
I dunno where this "AI doesn't do piercing" thing comes from, it seems most of the time the AI brings anti tank guns out against me even when I have no tanks.
The ai never really builds a good amount of at in the early to mid game. You need to be 1943 or later for the ai to really have at in most of it divisions.
Just a thought. If recon is good on the defensive, is it not automatically also good on the offensive since it *denies* your opponent that buff?
Indirectly
Nope. It's good for defense only because you have higher chance to counter enemy tactics, granted you have selected right countertactic: AI will never do something like that.
No.
You'd think so, right?
But most attacking tactics can get countered by defensive tactics, whereas most defensive tactics cannot be countered by attacking tactics.
That's the difference.
why is speed useless? the 2 most decisive tactical mechanics in the game ive found are encirclement and overrun and speed is essential for these. if you have recon, eng, green air, blue supply then any battle win with a motorised unit vs an infantry will simply wipe them out. and with eng you dont even need motorised to overrun a bridgehead a lot of the time. if you have eng and they dont and are retreating with river speed debuff, even your infantry can overrun them half the time. you can really see the benefit in mountains too if you use mountaineers. mountaineers + recon, in any won battle vs normal infantry can often just wipe out every stack they beat in battle.
i found this strat is best when you use SPG as well. because then with 2-3 SPG in your div you kill them faster than they can reinforce. so you can have just a few SPG+mech+tank+recon+eng divisions smash their frontline, then wipe out a stack of any size. synergises really well with the improv expert perk to stack even more speed, and the logistics expert perk to get that temp blue supply buff even in a supply desert. time it for just as you win a battle and suddenly you are like 4x faster than the enemy and easily overrun
also i think youre underselling motorised recon. it gives the biggest defence buff of the recons, pretty substantial. think i got about +15% defence on a 7/2 for barbarossa last time i checked. but the light armour recon has better breakthrough. also the speed buff for infantry means your chances of losing a battle vs a motorised division and making it to the next tile is much better too.
I know this is a year late but i think field hospitals are very good for the latest dlc for south america. Unless you go with one of the "core the entire continent" paths you have no manpower as any of the nations
I don't know where the "Ai doesn't build peircing" myth even come from, but from late 1939 I always encounter AI with at least anti air or anti tank so 5 or 10 armor from recon tank is basically trash and I've never had success using it, except when playing Japan and use them agaisnt China
It's not so much that it never builds divisions with piercing, it's that the AI builds three quintillion different templates.
Some templates have anti tank or Anti Air in them, most don't, but you never know which one is gonna be deployed
Really because the soviet don't normally have at or aa in their divisions for barb. Really only germany consistently gets piercing on their divisions becuase they normally build aa.
Aren’t those coordination bonuses provided by signal companies good on tanks?
Coordination bonuses are largely irrelevant. The bonus only applies to you bonus coordination. So if you have 10 bonus coordination, signal 2 will make that 13. When attacking 2 targets that will increase damage on main target by 1.5%. That's sooo good.
@@71Cloak in minmaxing multiplayer it does make a diffrence. It's mostly about reinforce-memeing enemy tanks when you click on them.
Pretty useful video, thanks man!
I always have field hospitals because I play road to 56 and prefer not going beyond extensive conscription… for role play purposes
Recon gives you +10% speed and boosts your countering of enemy tactics and your prevention of getting countered, which is a good buff
The 10% speed is the only good thing.
The tactics just don't matter.
Can't counter a tactic if it has no counter, which most defensive tactics don't. Also 10% really isn't that big of a deal.
@@71Cloak But almost all offensive tactics have counters.
10% faster means I might pull off maneuvers like encirclements because I am faster than my enemy
@@marthvader14 on tanks you will already be faster, with infantry you can just apply the air superiority debuff and slow down the enemy.
Recon countering offensive tactics is nice but not that valuable. Its about a 5% buff to your division pre-NSB. Post NSB you can just set the counter to your enemies prefered tactic manually.
Plus infantry is already way better on the defensive and doesn't really need the help. Tanks aren't going to care if their tactics get countered and infantry probably weren't going to win to start with.
@@71Cloak what tanks are you using? For me 10% Extra Speed is massive
So why is maintenance D tier? That extra reliability feels godly for my tonks. Let’s me pump my armor and attack stats even more.
Maintenance on tanks is only good if you already have high reliability tanks ti start with. The bonus is multiplicative not additive. Its only good when you don't need it.
@@71Cloak well, I typically design my tanks for 90% reliability. 1939 maintenance gives 10% which would put my tanks at 99% reliability. Would that be worth it?
@@Bruh-ff2tw at 90% you're already not taking much in the way of attrition losses anyway. Unless you like driving into mountains for skiing trips with your tanks constantly you don't need them.
I feel like engineers are overvalued. The entrenchment is nice, but critical situations don't depend on it. It also gets less useful the more you have, so on GBP or MA, I usually skip over. As for terrain bonuses, they aren't that great. Mostly movement across rivers.
Anyway, I think they are pretty good, but not always useful, so A tier rather than S tier. 30 support equipment is also rather expensive
they’re S tier on defense but A/B on offense (A only after getting the river crossing attack upgrade)
Huh
The boost to defense is _exactly_ what _prevents_ critical situations 😆
I always use engineer companies when I plan to do a lot of fighting in mountains/across rivers, but don't have the special forces cap for a lot of marines/mountaineers.
@@RocketSquirrel111 eng does literally nothing for mountains
@@oldpersonmc18yearold46 you're right, but they do provide a bonus in hills
your missing a big point on recon...speed. its super helpful when stacking every speed buff possible and encircling and overruning
L on the light flamethrower, you just make it cheap for combat bonuses. Why not if you have a slot
Logistic companies is only worth in my opinion if you play single player and max boost your enemies. So then you have to stack divisions in 1 tile in some areas to hold the line, then they become very valuable. Other than that its basically worthless like you said "if your in the subbly hub range you have supply if youre not you dont have supply", simple is that 😃
Well, no one ever had more then regular troops here, or innitiative
whoa, seeing the game changed this much is a bit of a surprise
You forget the Armor Recon can give Entrenchment by putting a dozer blade on it. Same for flame tanks
1 entrenchment is a 2% buff to stats o the defensive if you are actually making use of that entrenchment. Holding isn't something you really need to worry about in most cases you are going to be using armoured recon.
How come you don’t build more armor in the current meta, even though armor just got buffed?
Honestly I forgot anti tank was in the game, the best counter to tanks is tanks, and ai tanks are never gonna be an issue
imagine if recon companies gave you intel on strength & org of enemy divisions nearby. Right now the issue of hoi4 being not "realistic" is that you play as some all-powerful being with full information on frontline enemy divisions, so recon companies are just redundant
You do get more intel from combat when you have recon versus not. At the end of the day it isn't really a big deal though.
@@71Cloak what? I never even noticed that lol
Field hospitals should do something else, like 10% org recovery
MAN GIVE ME MORE VIDEOS!!!111 love ya bruh
How about rangers?
Tbh I believe that playing against bots as a minor , in mods for example , cav recon is very nice . You place it in infantry’s divisions , so you don’t care about speed that much, it’s also very cheap , I don’t think that with 15 mils some can build a strong 40 div army with tank recon and all other supports. Hence I believe that cav recon isn’t useless really.
Armoured car recon is low Key really good
Frankly, AC-Recon with AT-AC is something you should probably look at. It basically provides free piercing as recon.
Yeah but it's 1942 tech locked behind a 1942 tech.
Wait there's anti-tank armored cars? Since when?
@@moekitsune Since La Resistance aka when they added armoured cars.
They are a subtech of the late-war armoured cars.
Wait so... What about maintenance companies ? You didn't explain thoses D:
Maybe I’m stupid for doing this but Iv been really avoiding using any recently and just maxing out org over everything else
org is completely overrated. especially in SP you should put arty and AA in everything. exception is if you’re doing a very explicit org spam strategy where you let the AI cycle against 2-10w infantry or cav while you encircle and VP snipe with tanks, but for actually pushing org is not the stat to design around
@@oldpersonmc18yearold46 yeah even with just infantry if you can outlive the amount of soft attack inflicted by an enemy before their org runs out then their dead in the water, I use pure mechanised with the left side of the mobile warfare doctorine and over 100 org on pure mech 20 widths is op as hell, I never bothered with arty but I may have to try that now ( this does require some kind of air coverage due to how powerful air is in this update but I suppose a little AA wouldn’t nerf them too much in the org department)
@@hawkerben1158 no you’re misunderstanding. if you’re using high-cost, high(ish)-output units like mech, tanks, inf with line arty, etc. then boosting your output even further is way better than 5-10 extra org. you’ll win “harder” basically.
the only time you wouldn’t want the extra cost-effectiveness more than the org is if you were doing the true optimal SP strategy of light/medium tanks and a million 2-4w cavalry. where the cavalry exist to die and snake while your tanks make a million holes in the AI’s lines
Lol, 20 width mech is not OP as hell, it's _expensive_ as hell 😆
Org is great on defense, I've found.
Usually means my infantry can hold without taking any losses, while my tanks have the breakthrough to attack without any losses.
But I play as the weird Hitler who cared about human lives 😆
Bruh logistics company is literally quite possibly the best in the entire game
Why is maintenence is D? It can recover a lot of your and enemy equipment by 1939
Tbh i dont think engineers are that good, factories put on support eq could be used for something else
Tbh, you're wrong.
By not-losing, you'll lose way less equipment, so you don't need as many mils.
(the effect becomes insane, later, when production efficiency creeps up)
bad opinion
@@MrNicoJac what do you mean by not losing?
Please make a video aboout jets, and also, if is worth it to rush some technologies before starting the wars
terrain defense bonus on forts and rivers don't work btw.
Any changes to the list after By Blood Alone?
Not really. some people would argue that field hospitals got buffed but I would argue you should still never need them.