Where Did Goth Teen Subculture Come From and Why is it Associated With Roman Invaders?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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You know, Hello Fresh say they source locally but for the last month or two we haven't been able to get recipes containing sausage or minced meat in Northern Ireland because they couldn't get it across the new customs border.
So I call the 'locally sourced' into question.
Uhm... HelloFresh is a German company that does serve the UK and other parts of Europe as well so not sure why you say you can't get it in Europe ^^
Siouxsie Sioux is pronounced "Suzy Sue". Her name was (is?) Susan.
Look up the Sioux indians.
try raman invadors
Si_ooxi Sue would approve.
"If you're so goth, where were you when we sacked Rome?"
-a shirt I owned in the 90s. I was really popular, as you can guess.
I had to look it up. It's still available even now. I think I might order one.
I want that even though I'm not Goth. Then again, I do study Latin for fun... It might be right up my alley even if I study the language of the invaded.
That's awesome.
Love it
The Visigoths will have some words with you.
You just named most of my favorite bands!❤
fyi, Souixie is pronounced like 'soozy' or Suzy the short for Susan. The spelling coming from the Souix tribe of North America.
Sioux
This made me grind my teeth too.
I stated exactly the same. Even if one isn’t acquainted with the band, the “Sioux” part is recognizable as “Sue” and it shouldn’t be difficult to work out that it’s “Sue-zee”.
It was a bit earlier than the early 80s, around 77-78. Patricia Morrison had the complete look on many occasions when she played bass with The Bags / Alice Bags, under the name Pat Bags. She was really the first to have the complete "modern" Goth look put together, and to wear it not only on stage, but off, and have the attitude ( being herself in that way, not as a show only ) as well. Pat played bass for The Gun Club, then Sisters of Mercy, and The Damned most recently, and married The Damned's lead singer Dave Vanian. She's still Goth today.
I started with Bauhaus in the early 90's high school.
Hello from a goth in her 40's. Writers, please don't refer to the subculture strictly as a teen one. The title of this video made me cringe. I know people all the way into their 60's that are goth and have been since the 80's. If you truly appreciate the music, literature, architecture, etc., you never "stop" being goth. It's inherently a part of you and not something just for teenagers. People of all ages are openly welcomed into the wonderful subculture. But thank you for correctly presenting the origins of the subculture and touching on the various sub-genres of the music! You almost never see that in videos. Overall this was a great video. Kudos!
shhhh....we can all pretend to be ageless and looking like the teens. the wrinkles are not there if we just deny them 😄
Most likely it is seen as a teen subculture because the most out there members people see are teens/young adults. Just a thought.
@@TheMalkavianmadman at this point its not true, goth it not a super popular subculture with young people, and looking at who attends festivals and gigs - we deffo have one of the higher average ages amongst music related subcultures
Depeche Mode
Rebuttal: KMFDM
I like my Depeche like I like my apple pie... a la Mode.
Lords of the New Church?
I’ve got to say one of the gothy old west girls from the Personal Jesus video is kind of my dream girl. As a teen in the 2000’s I didn’t know that emo/goth look was around so early.
@@Lomi311 I just watched the video, I think I know the one you're talking about and I agree.
2:33 Sooksy!?!?! Mr Whistler you've been doing so well lately with pronunciation. And you're a Brit!
I like that the Gothic Architecture thumbnail is Anor Londo.
Fascinating as always, even to those of us who have already studied most of this history. Thanks so much for putting a fresh face on the subject!
Siouxie and the Banshees started in the seventies only a tiny bit later than the Damned.
YES SIMON MORE MUSIC HISTORY THEMED VIDEOS! MAKE A WHOLE DAMN CHANNEL
My group of friends in college were labelled the "Bat People" by the normals in town because "goth" hadn't yet entered mainstream consciousness.
Lol
Is that Anor Londo from Dark Souls at 4:28? I do consider myself a Goth and love that game 😅
Recent Today I Found Out + Megaprojects crossover = Goth Cruise
There's even a 2008 documentary about it... I was on that cruise =) They're still sailing.
"...the more angst-driven Beethoven..." I'm like "yeah! that's what was so great about his music." Always said he was the heavy metal of his day...
Except that heavy metal is NOT Goth.....
@@nightchild4468 Where I grew up, there was overlap across genres and angst had many expressions. Beethoven had wide appeal for anyone willing to cross into the classics.
70s-80s: Goth, 90s: Punk, 00's-Current: Emo, add brown and brass: Steampunk.
90s: punk? Hah! Young'uns!
Was that one picture of Anor Londo from Dark Souls 1? Lol
Okay. What exactly were"follies" and why did they become so popular in Regency/Victorian times?
When you've been playing Dark Souls for over 9 years and see Anor Londo show up in an educational video that has nothing to do with the game... 😲😁👏
I was goth when I was a teenager. I still love the music, The Cure, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Siouxsie, The Damned, Sisters of Mercy, The Mission, and others. I also love gothic architecture, because if your buttresses aren't flying, are you even trying?
I liked that but I like all types of music. It's not just music and not put myself in a box. I feel like a lone wolf punk goth in a semi rural area. Phase? Nope. Neighbors probably think Im weird but never got to know me though they're rarely outside and spread out. Though grubbies working in the yard. With covid, lots of jammie days.😹
I thought goth was really more literature and architecture too.
Same!! The Cure is still my favourite band, and I passed on my love of them to my daughter, who is now 27. One of my favourite experiences was seeing them with her when she was in her late teens. It was such an amazing show...they played for 3 hours, and performed all our favourite songs. ❤️❤️
"...if your buttresses aren't flying, are you even trying?" OK, that one's going in the brain bank. It may come back out some day when the world least expects it.
I still got the hair to prove it.....
Just not black. 😂
What about Grace Slick and Mariska Veres?
Really, Simon? You didn't get out the eye liner and black lipstick for this video? We all wanted to see it!
If he'd mispronounced Siouxsie while wearing that, it would've burst into flames.
*i'm sure there's a phone app or after effects filter that would do the same thing*
@@rickc2102 its like heathen holy water 😄
I still want to see that. He'd look great in some well done makeup.
I would pay big money to see that.
come for the teenage angst, stay for the pillaging
I love how it's a Goth joke AND current events joke 👍👍
Yes, explaining it makes it less funny 🤣
You know you are getting old when people have to do RUclips videos explaining the history of a music movement that you saw manifesting in real time. "Tell us about the Goths again, gramps!"
Yeah... I feel that in my ancient bones. XD
"Well, you see, back in my day 2000 years ago..."
While helping my college students to brainstorm a fundraising event one girl suggested an 80's prom. I told her that I attended an 80's prom in the 80's and I didn't know if the kids nowadays were cool enough for that.
We didn't sack Rome, we just made the dance floor our bitch.
And we have the photos to prove that we were there. 😂
SUKsie and the Banshees? "Sioux" pronounced as the American Indian tribe to give us "Siouxsie" pronounced as "Suzy". Pretty big English band at the time, but I keep forgetting how young Simon is!
I caught that too. I feel old.
Still, really Simon??
LoL so hard when he said that 🤣
@@betttrbeth I caught it so hard, I had to stop the video and hit the comments.
I cringed.
Not gonna lie.
Would have loved to see Simon slowly changing into more and more "Gothic" style with every cut, with the final shot having him just depressed and with an undercut with long top wig on.
Maybe next time....
In the end, he should've been like Richmond from the IT Crowd :D
*perhaps in the Goth Revisited follow up*
Enough people get behind it and we can make it happen🤘
Now we have a new business blaze request
How do you know he's not depressed?
FROM ROMAN "INVADOR" TO THIS? Daven, did you let Simon make the thumbnail this time?? LOLOL!
There’s been a fair few spelling errors from whoever does the thumbnails on Simon’s channels...
@@alfrede.neuman9082 For example?
@@MisterPogman well, “invador” for one...
@@alfrede.neuman9082 n0
An invader stole the 'e' key from his computer!
I remember my dad telling my edgy teenage self that if I ever came face to face with a real goth, they’d laugh their ass off at how I looked before killing me.
Just as planned! It allows you time to escape!
I wonder where you got the edginess from
@@calebbean1384 years and years of extreme bullying.
"Goth fasion is a profusion of black velvets, lace, fishnets and leather tinged with scarlet of purple, accessorized with tightly laced corstes, gloves, precarious stilettos and silver jewelry depicting religious or occult themes" . . . and that's just the men ;)
Yeah, that pretty much describes how I used to dress.....
@@robbikebob nice bike bruh
The artist formerly known as Prince (rip)
Hard to pillage wearing that
@@coldmoonlight6361 thanks...... If your serious...🤔👍
As a goth in my 30s I spend less on goth clothes & more on decorating my place as a mixture of an old Victorian home & a Sanrio store 😆🖤
As an old goth i'm still tryng to learn how to wear togas!
There's a house listed on Zillow in the Baltimore area that is totally Goth, down to the coffin in the corner of the living room. Totally over the top -- but totally unassuming little house from the street.
Damn that sounds like me too!
I'm in my late 20's and I've got the same decor going on.
Think of a purple chaise lounge but add some Hello Kitty plushies lmao it's clusterfuck but it's MY clusterfuck🖤
Mid 30's and saaaame!
So what does "teen" have to do with it ? Isn't it just goth subculture?
Maybe 90% of the active Gothic fans are teens?
@@Heyitsallgoodman Definitely not! People have been getting into goth since it started, so there are goths in their 60s and maybe even older! There are teens today getting into it too, I hear there's a tiktok community for it even. New music is coming out all the time too, so it's very much alive - or.. undead ;)
@@Heyitsallgoodman Uh, NO. I am 35, and the majority of Goths in my city are even older than I am. Teens don't like Goth music for the most part, they like Metal music, and they shop at Hot Topic. That's not Goth at all.......
Shoutout to Anor Londo for making its way into this video
Ha that was a surprise
Yah, I got a small chuckle seeing that.
Literally scrolling the comments to see if someone else picked up on that.
came here to say this
Good, i'm not crazy.^^
Did anyone else noticed how "Invader" was spelled wrong in the title? lol.
Your not the only one Mr Headshot President
@@PerryKobalt YourE?? - sry, couldnt help it.. ;)
@@martinwinther6013 not sorry
You can learn a lot from Simon's videos, I now know that I've been misspelling 'invador' and mispronouncing 'Sooksy and the Banshees' for years.
@@martinwinther6013 : D XD
Funi lolq
Imagine being the worlds most powerful Empire ruling most of the known world only to be destroyed by a bunch of depressed teens.
- This Post was made by the Byzantine Empire Gang.
That sounds like the premise of a anime series.
That sounds like what’s going on today.
@@mikecochrane1437 Accurate.
Goths have definitely moves a bit past a youth culture these days. You can certainly still find baby bats, but you can also find goths who are 50 or 60 years old. I went goth in the early 2000s and remain so, albeit with somewhat less fancy clothes now. It's just kinda hard to get things done in a corset and full skirt.
Thank you for saying this, I get so sick of people relegating goth to teenagers. Once a goth always a goth in a lot of ways...
@@nharber9837 It really was a club based culture to start and minus the pandemic, really does remain so today. However, many of the early artists weren't much over the legal age, for example Siouxsie Sioux was still a teenager when she started in music. By no means is youth a requirement though
Cant find good shoes in hot topic these days.
You are an emo not a goth though.
The only reason why the Goths destroyed Rome was because the Romans never understood them.
"It's just a phase"
Theodosius the Great issued his infamous edict banning clove cigarettes in 394 and Goth-Roman relations never recovered.
@@brucetucker4847 ROTFLMAO! 🤣 Don't forget his inclusion of banning mascara, eyeliner & eyeshadow for men. Because it's 'too girly & boys don't wear that kinda stuff' in the same edict.
Lol that's pretty funny
LOL, "SOOKSIE".
Yhea, Simon the man of er... Little youth culture from any generation.. 🤔
I wheezed a little when I heard it
Audibly said "you what?" Couldn't help it.
How can Simon not have heard of Siouxsie and the Banshees?
Yeah, I laughed at that too. Today I'm going to talk about an era I wasn't around in and the goth singer 'Sooksie Sook'. In another segment I will talk about the 80's/90's Irish singer 'Sin-eyad O'Connor'.
I beg your pardon? Goth *"TEEN"* subculture? Any halfway decent goth knows that teenagers can't afford any of the good goth fashion! 😆
Back in the 80s we made our own or scavenged in thrift stores.
@@brucetucker4847 of course there's always been the element of DIY, being a spiritual successor to that punk rock ethos. But that again seperates the capable adults from the scavenging teenagers. Limitation breeding creativity & all that.
If it's not clear, I was poking fun at the thumbnail that specified "goth teen" culture, implying it was a faze to be grown out of. To the contrary, I interjected: adult Goths can afford the elaborate statement pieces that crafting supplies can't match. 🕴
Goth is a MUSIC based subculture. The fashion is only secondary......
"... And Batman lives in GOTH-am of course" it all makes sense now
Yes I think catwoman in batman returns was what pulled me towards this style before I even knew what it was.
Granny Goth here (Robert Louis Stevenson is my great-great grand uncle). When you said architecture I yelled "flying buttress"! Thank you for making this amazing video ; it's really awesome to hear someone going into art and literature instead of talking about My Chemical Romance (they're not goth, I don't care what the Rolling Stone said 10 years ago 🙄). My 🖤 will always belong to Robert Smith!
I couldn't agree with you more about MCR, lol. It makes my dark heart boil when I hear them called goth.
I'd insult EMOs but they'd only cry about it....but if I praised them they'd still cry about it....in the rain....in black and white.....
They do pull from bands and regularly give homage to them.
Emo's are acended goths
@@williamcruz5403 not ascended. Degenerated
I love that when he is talking about what makes things look gothic and shows a cathedral (about at the 4:25 mark), its just the Anor Londo cathedral from Dark Souls lol
Was looking for this
Bloodborne would have been a better fit for this.
Come for this 🤣 You Died
@@user-ee9cz6mc1x Anor Londo tho' 😅
And I was like.... Isn't that Dark souls? Nah. Damn. I was right!
Don’t forget rocky horror picture show’s major contribution.
😂👍🏽
It's just a step to the left. .....
@@robbikebob a JUMP to the left... and then a step to the ri-i-i-i-i-ight!
You know what they say about being a Goth artist? It's a good way to go Baroque! (ducks!)
Here's a better question: when did Goth and Industrial start going hand in hand? There is a difference between army surplus, spiked collars, combat boots and angry music about cyborgs, violence, rebellion and the apocalypse and lace, velvet, eye liner, and music about sadness, loss, the occult and romance. How the hell did the two ever get mashed together?
Look up Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, Cabaret Voltaire, ADF and Ministry. That should give you an idea or somewhere to start your quest.
I didn't realize they had been... that's what I get for last checking in on those subcultures 20 years ago...
The real question is how they separated. In the 80s there really wasn't the genre specificity you started seeing in the 90s; bands and fans had different styles, but it was mostly one big subculture with someone more interested in some aspects and others more interested in others. The size of the fan base was much, much smaller than it was after the indie explosion of the early 90s and outside of the biggest cities (NY, LA, London) there weren't enough people to support multiple scenes. The only place you heard any of it on radio was college stations, which usually meant one per town.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 It was always "Goth/Industrial" night. How did the two combine is what I'm asking.
Goth is all about individualism and self-expression: Whether you express distain for authority and industrialism through army surplus, or mainstream conformity through corsets and collars - its all about expressing who you are. Of course, often it just comes down to what you think looks good, without the need for political subtext.
It's what I love most about being goth: There's no rule that you *must* wear something in particular - you don't even need to dress in all black all the time, and lipstick/eyeliner is optional. Likewise there is no political philosophy or lifestyle that must be observed; libertarian or communist, wiccan, christian or atheist, anyone can be goth, because we are free people who value being different.
90s Goth, here. To contribute to the lore, in the Toronto scene. Goth clubs, at the time... Sanctuary, Bovine Room, Velvet Underground, The Kathedral, and The Guvernment (large event venue). Thanks for the accurate dose of nostalgia, Simon and Team!
90's Goth from Cleveland, here, taking issue with the label "accurate" being applied to a video about such bands as "SuXsy and the Banshees." (j/k)
My favourite Goth hit is 'The Monster Mash'.
That's Goth isn’t it?
If you want it to be. Goths are very casual about what it means to be goth and what makes someone goth.
Sure, some will inevitably yell "Poser!" at the slightest disagreement in style or philosophy, but on the whole goths are mostly about individualism and self-expression.
Goth isn't just music. I like all genres mostly.
I too enjoy "Monster Mash" thoroughly.
@@JNoMooreNumbers goth is many things not just music
My first thought was: Wait, oh, surely not? But most of my counter arguments fall apart.
I best pretend I never got on that thought train. I like to meet people, drink beer, go home and get invited again :3
I was goth in 1982 in Topeka ks. When we wore straight black drank coffee & listened to punk metal.
How'd you drink the coffee?
Black?
@@DonVigaDeFierro black & as strong as possible.
You left out smoking cloves.
@@brucetucker4847 most chained smoked cigs but yeah we had our clove smokers & they stunk to high hell. Don't forget the caffeine pills that made our hair fell like it moved around on our heads.
Believe the caffeine pills had ephedrine in them.
“It was a renaissance era burn to call yo momma’s house gothic!” 😂🤣
as i recall, the Python "Attila the Hun" sketch featured Eric Idle, in blackface, saying something about a "whole lot of Visigoths".
A great parody of the moronic sitcoms of the era.
"Mister Hun Sir? There's a whole hoard of them marauding Visigoths to see y'all!"
Do Visigoths like Spam? Or were they Vikings?
Because visigoths fought with the Romans and ostrogoths at Attila's side.
Blackface is unacceptable and wholly evil! Eric Idle should be ashamed of commiting such a despicable vile act equivalent to genocide!
“Teen” subculture... I don’t think it ever was just teens. I was a late 80s goth. Still goth inside.
Did Simon just say “Sook-sy” and the Banshees? 😆. It’s difficult for me to grasp that Simon has never heard of Siouxsie (like Suzy) and the Banshees. Really Simon?! “Sioux” is the Native American tribe name and it’s pronounced like “Sue”; so “Sioux-sie” should obviously be pronounced like “Sue-zee”.
Edit: 🤦🏻♂️ (sigh)
I know, right? I thought I was the only one who noticed.
There has to be at least one egregious pronunciation in each Simon offering.
@@susaniacuone5758 it's his damned right as a damned Englishman to mispronounce any damned thing however he damned well pleases
Come on, It's not as bad as that time he pronounced Eurydice as "Yuri Dice" 😂
He's not American, he doesn't know how to pronounce Sioux
My mom took me being goth well. She offered to buy me black nail polish, a black lace ankle-length dress that I still have to this day, every holiday she'd get me silver and turquoise jewelry, and when I wanted to dye my hair black my senior year, she said, "Why not go blue-black?" That's when I learned that my mom spent her teens dressed in black, dyed her hair blue-black, and listened to old school "gothic" music (Beethoven and Berlioz). 🖤
I am amused that the image for 'gothic architecture' is a screen shot (ruclips.net/video/M4RSnrL1QXc/видео.html ) of Anor Londo from the first Dark Souls video game.
Recognised it immediatly
I love that goth is called a teen subculture in the title and yet I'm sitting here watching it as a 30-something goth
for real... I get annoyed when people continuously assume that it's supposed to be some kind of teenage phase. But what do you really expect from an uneducated outsider?
39 here. Lol
We are Eldergoths. 🤣
41 goth here. Hardly a teen, but hey 😆 Anyone else slightly baffled by Simon’s pronunciation of Siouxie with the x? I thought it was meant to be the same as Susie...
@@nharber9837 "I've never understood why they can't just let us be". Goth style is heavy on the death, occult, and darkness motifs. Most people are put off by that, and even though to you these themes seem appealing, you cant really blame people for perceiving a style that is obsessed with the morbid as... morbid.
And a question that I always have with subcultures such as this is that the subculture intentionally goes out of it's way to be different, to subvert, to challenge, and to reject the "normal" culture. But after putting in all the effort to be different, turn around and complain about being treated or perceived as different. The whole movement is an effort to challenge and criticize the norm, but then act surprised that people may not appreciate someone criticizing their worldview.
It's almost as if there is an inability to be part of the norm, and an outward rejection of it because of that inability. But at some deep inner level their is a desire to be part of and accepted by the norm.
Goth Love always
Nobody in Late Medieval Europe:
Literally not a soul:
Italian Renaissance: "OK GOTH."
YAASSS QUUEEEENNNN
Ok Feuder 🙄
Laughs in goth
@@eclatshwartzbaumcybertune2063 laughs in "laughs in jokes are cringe"
It's not a "teen" subculture. I'm in my thirties and still goth (though toned down a bit, except for special occasions.)
Time to grow up then!...
Na j/k be what you want to be.
@Robert Sears translation = Stop liking things that I don't like! I demand that you suddenly stop liking things that you used to enjoy!
lol, found the 13 year old.
@Robert Sears How is being confident in your own identity and standing by your personal beliefs not "acting like an adult"?
@Robert Sears oh sorry, I'll start drinking, wife beating, insulting people and doing the other "grown up "things I'm supposed to do then....
I always liked goth culture and only embraced it properly in my 30s. I know loads of goths that are in their 50s and even 60s....
Lipstick on my cigarette, frost upon the window pane....
The one goth band that hates being called gothic rock. Sisters of Mercy prefers being know as alternitive rock... Yeah whatever Eldritch 🙄😂
Lol Sooxy? I used to call her that when i was kid until a goth friend embarrassed me and told me it’s just pronounced like “Suzy”.
I can almost forgive him not knowing that - *_almost,_* (since "Siouxie" is one of the most obvious puns ever written) - but for a Brit to speak of "David BAU-ie???"
Was never into the Goth thing when I was younger, I fell in love with the punk scene though, so definitely had a fair share of Goth pals and a couple girlfriends into it. Really always found it interesting, especially those whom grew up but never grew out of it. Some of the very best, kindest people in the general public, are the ones walking around looking "weird". I never grew out of my "phase" and have respect for all who held onto it the same.
Sorry for the novel. Cheers friend! 🍻
Goths, Punks & Metalheads despite the stereotypes. Tend to be some of the most passive & polite people who you'll ever meet. I think part of it comes from the sheer shock factor. When you see someone looking like they'd rip the head off of a kitten with their teeth. Helping a little old lady cross the road it makes people do a double take. It never fails to make me laugh inside to see people's reactions when a. Goth, Punk or Metalhead does something 'nice' or is polite in public. & watching how people's jaws hit the floor. 🤣
Surprised how accurate this is. Bringing up the bat cave and all.
it came out one minute ago and you havent seen the video yet.
@@MajesticSkywhale I fast forwarded through the hello fresh ad, saw the bat cave and joy division reference as well as post punk reference. That’s all there really even is to know.
As a Goth from the early 80's the lack of The Sisers of Mercy is a big oversight.
Except the “Sook-see” and the Banshees bit. That’s just 🤦🏻♂️.
@@tedrex8959 amen!
As a modern goth and as a strong lover of classical through medieval history I want to thank you for this wonderful, thorough, and generous overview of both.
And not all goths from the early 90's stop spending money on clothes.
4:18 this was the last place where I'd expect Anor Londo
Poe, Doors, Cure, Joy Division - ah! My people!
I used to go to a goth/alternative club in the mid 80s (The Vatican) that was 3 stories tall, & since it was owned by 5 college art students, every floor had rotating art exhibits, & constantly changing murals. The best club I’ve ever gone to, by far. Every weekend it would be completely remodeled, so you literally never knew what each floor, or even the stairwell brought you. When the students graduated, they sold it at a profit. One of them became a set designer for Pee Wee Herman’s Playhouse, which gives you an idea of his design aesthetics
That sounds absolutely incredible.
@@EviusPistachio It was great. It was a bottle club, so they only charged a $5 cover, & you drank whatever alcohol you brought with you,... which meant it didn’t close at 2 AM, but instead around 5 AM. Most didn’t even arrive until after midnight. It was an incredible atmosphere. Progressive music. A rave bar before raves were a thing. We would dance & sweat so hard, that by the time you left, you had already sobered up. Very inclusive. Lots of interesting people. One night, I even met a Black skinhead. 😱 Lol He said he liked their music 😳 [Your name reminded me of the band that was playing that night. The Psychoviolents. One of my (platonic) pink-haired girl friends was dating the lead singer.] I will treasure the memories.
"I can't believe a documentary tracing goth subculture as detailed as this had not even a mere mention of neither multi-artist and author Neil Gaiman nor of 1990's TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer as profound influences on the evolution of goth subculture."
-Quote Machine
Partial to Vandals and Visigoths myself.
Ok, you had me at "...precarious stilettos". I enjoyed this exploration of the Goth subculture and the actual Goths.
A pity he didn't go into any of the actual philosophies or misconceptions about the Goth subculture, rather than focus so heavily on the origin of the term.
There's a lot more to being goth than wearing black and quoting the Raven.
@@LadyDoomsinger The video is about where it came from, not what people think about it, which changes all the time.
Still listen to The Cure, Siouxsie, Bauhaus, The Damned, The Mission, Sisters of Mercy, etc since the 80s. 51 now and never really stopped listening.
nice to see another mission fan feel like we have a lot in common
Goth is not "teen subculture." Source: a 40 year old goth.
Manny demographics...
Goth subculture goes back to the late 1960s.
Be honest, did you start being goth as an adult? Or did you start as a teenager?
It's the kind of thing you try as a teenager, like smoking.
You did it because it helped you fit in back then, and you didn't abandon it as an adult which is fine. Everybody has their own taste.
But the truth is that Goth Is a teenage subculture.
@@eclatshwartzbaumcybertune2063 *many
@@help8help NO, it isn't. I'm 35, and the majority of Goths here in my city are even older than I am. Teens don't listen to or like Goth music for the most part. Those teens who dress in black are more than likely Metalheads. Metal and Goth are two different music styles with nothing in common. They aren't Goth.
This was the last place I would ever think to see Anor Londo 😲 Love it!
As regards goth as the music genre, it started off as people wearing vintage victorian clothing, it then morphed into the lots of black, purple clothes and white foundation and mascara, the music was the party on the titanic as she sank, or the stately home before the bailiffs moved in.
So, "New Romantics" Started it? Cool! :)
I was a Goth from late 1981, until the early 1990's. Still love the music, always will. Amusingly, I was once refused service in a rural pub, in the mid '80's, for the heinous crime of wearing black nail polish. 😆😆😆
Good video, Simon, although 'Siouxsie' is pronounced exactly the same as 'Susie'. I'm only wearing black until they discover a darker colour, by the way.
So, Vantablack then?
Sushi Sue and the Ban-sheez
@@eshbena - Wouldn't that be incredible for clothes? They'd look great, but be stiflingly hot. And damned expensive.
I had the "I'm only wearing black..." quote on a t-shirt. Black, of course.
Fuligin.
@@brucetucker4847 - Good old soot, or what I saw for sale in a rather highfalutin' garden centre, expensive, and labelled as 'Bio-Char'. You couldn't make it up.
The fact that you call it a "teen" subculture shows that you don't know much about it. Most Goths are not teenagers, the largest part is much older. Also, the Goth scene is far more diverse with many different clothing styles which is not only black and Velvet. Perhaps you should do real research instead just reading some Wikipedia page.
I know that music isn't the focus of the discussion, but I think credit should be given to the Stones' "Paint It Black" as a proto-goth rock song.
TEEN subculture? Really? 😆
I‘m 46 soon, it was not only a phase, mom. 😁
I got a massive laugh from him calling it a 'teen sub culture'. & stating that it's "only been around since the 80's." The modern Gothic culture has been around (in one form or another) since at least the early 70's. & one of my favourite Gothic songwriters & artists Aurelio Voltaire. Who is 51 - so even though he's young at heart, he's hardly a 'teenager'.
Exactly. I'm 35, and the majority of Goths in my city are older than me. In fact, there are ZERO teen Goths that I know of......
We, the Gothic children of the 80s, look at today's Goths with the same "that's not Goth" as the first tribes would look at us
Goth is not only a teen subculture, many of us are 40+ and still enjoy our way of life.
Fun Fact: Alaric can be translated to ruler of all/god king. TFW titles become the only name we have.
The same is true of Theodoric - it's a combination for an older, traditional German term for king (thiuda, which also meant people or tribe) and the Latin-derived rex.
"Wildly evocative if terribly impractical edifices"
I love that. I wish we could have more of that mindset in the modern day here in America.
"Why did you build this this way? This doesn't serve any kind of useful function!"
"I know, but it looks cool!"
That present architecht who slathers stainless all over his buildings.
What are some recent examples of these "evocative but impractical" edifices?
@@mariusvanc Anything by Gaudi. XD
@@mariusvanc look up Streamline Moderne, that craze in the 30s and 40s to make buildings look like they were designed to achieve light speed, and led eventually to Retro-futuristic as in The Jetsons. Those architectural fins served no function but looked so cool :)
@@mariusvanc An art museum I went to in Los Angeles, which was brand new some years ago. The Stainless Steel guy had designed it. The Denver airport, a movie theater in Honolulu, near the old IBM building, and the tram stops on the elevated rail project in Honolulu, not yet complete. The last three are made to look like umbrellas or sailboats.
I'm afraid to watch this honestly, so many people get it so very wrong.......
Not a goth myself, but come on, "teen goth"? Really?? Goth is not a a teen fad ffs. It's stupid misconceptions like this that lead to Sophie Lancaster.
And what is even more aggravating is the fact that Sophie wasn't even Goth, she was a Metalhead. Metal and Goth are two entirely different subcultures. Sophie was cool, and I would have definitely been friends with her, but she was no Goth.
I was a goth as a teen, and still consider myself. Parenting caused me to tone it down just a bit, but it's still a huge part of who I am.
As a Goth as you get older you don't tend to buy clothes as much as you do furniture & homewares. These days I find I'm more interested in creating a comfortable 'Gothic Lair'. Than owning 20 different versions of the same corset.
When I'm seen dressed in black, purple, and silver, someone always acts "what kind of goth are you?" and I reply, "I happen to be an Ostrogoth" (I live on the East Coast of North America)
..you have so very much of this incorrect..
..it was about music, not architecture..
..clothes and makeup was only if you wanted this..
..not one mention of SoM, or the branch of punk thrash, to the softcore horror rock, called goth/ic..
..maybe you mean emo.. ..good grief this is so unbelievably off..
..neat, neat, neat..
900+ years of independence between Spain and Portugal and you still say Spanish instead of Iberian. It's like pointing to Scotland and say "England".
Aarghh THIS WAS TERRIBLE and I actually love the majority of content here. This was just disjointed research hastily duct-taped together.. Seems like a rush-job in the name of deadlines and content creation. Bummer.
true. at least what was there was mostly accurate, even if a bit disorganized.
@@nyghteshadow7393 No doubt; always true. This channel is the opposite of Fox 'News'.
A goth girl broke my heart in high school. You never forget your first goth girl.
Legend
No you don't.
Joy Division, now we're talking Simon.
I have always wondered about this! My student fraternity is called "Gothia" and we members are called "Goths", but have obviously nothing to do with goth teen subculture.
@Robert Sears go play in traffic sparky.
You should probably fix that. Goths tend to be academics who also know how to party.
@Robert Sears good lord little boy, I'm sorry you can't get that goth gf that you want, not sure why you lash out at them though, I'm pretty sure every other girl rejects you too 😅☠😂💩🤡💩😂☠😅
@Robert Sears For a 33 year old, you sure do comment like a petulant child... Just saying, kid.
Ironic using the term vandals to describe how some viewed experimental artists and architects without comment while rolling back on around to it again
In the 80s there were some goths in my Italian school, all girls. What was interesting is that at the same time there was an ever bigger subculture going on called "paninari" with kids wearing very specific brands, like Timberland and Vans (without shoelaces) mostly hanging out at fast-food restaurants. The two couldn't be more at odds.
In modern Goth culture, the seminal track is usually regarded as Bauhaus' "Bella Lugosi's Dead". Goth also often retains elements of Punk (from which it grew): when you see a Gothette wearing a kilt that's where it comes from. The other thing that's fun is the typefaces Goths use: a logic took place where Original Goths = German, and the most famous typefaces from Germany are all "Blackletter", actually deriving from the "Gothic Script" used across Europe since the 1100s and used in the Gutenberg Bible, but also commonly used in Germany until 1945. So modern Goths always use Blackletter type in any production. Anachronism in action.
This is interesting but Goth is not and never was strictly a Teen Subculture
Sex Pistols, Goth? Not sure I'm with you there. In Lancashire town Bacup, a bunch of hoodlums murdered a girl for her Goth look, I've been to that town, let's say full on evolution hasn't visited yet. A lot Steampunk designs are very Gothic. As for the Romans calling people "Barbarians" well, a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
Q: "Who has time to cook a full meal from scratch these days?"
A: Everyone. Almost literally everyone. We've all been stuck at home for, like, a year, haven't we? And home is where the kitchen lives.
Yes, my household has definitely been eating more healthily in the time of Covid.
"Goth Teen Subculture".... titled by an outsider who knows nothing about our subculture. The goth subculture started in the late 1970s, not by teens, but by adults. A lot of those who were around for that are still involved in the scene today. Most, if not all, goth venues will not allow you access unless you're over the age of 21, so I don't know where you're getting "Teen Subculture" from. Do some more digging before releasing a video next time, pal. Come again...
"active practicing of non-violence", that's a Paradoxon to my liking. Nice!
It's generally hard to actively *not* do something, as not doing [x] is pretty much the definition of "passive" 🙃
It not just about not being violent, but actively promoting the absence of violence as a fundamental credo of the scene.
I think that Gothic rock and the new wave were splintered from 1980s pop, or some kind of anti reaction to it. And Gothic rock from that point forward was rich with themes from Gothic horror in movies and novelists like Lovecraft and others.
they splintered from punk, which was a reaction against 70s pop and arena rock. New Wave was postpunk that veered back in a more pop direction. Then mainstream 80s pop started picking up elements from New Wave.
The funny thing is how no one ever mentions Prince in any of these conversations.
I'm sick to death with all this fake bullocks about goths... everything he said about goths is what he's read.. but not everything you read is facts.. I lived it..