Many who have had a leg break off a cotter pin probably tried to straighten and re-use it. What I have more commonly seen on aircraft, is cotter pins that have gotten repeatedly snagged and bent (on clothing or rags from pilots and mechanics inspecting the aircraft), and then pushed back into place; eventually one of the legs fatigues and breaks off. Which is why the industry standard is for the legs to be bent as tightly against the fastener as possible, and then trimmed short to minimize the possibility of snags. In the comments to your post asking for input on the thumbnail for this video, you asked that everybody keep in mind that you are talking about sailboats and not aircraft, which is a point well made. But also consider that a lot of the same factors apply... You still need to be concerned with the cotter pins getting snagged on lines, sails, clothing, etc and damaging those things, as well as having the pins get bent and eventually fail from repeated bending cycles. One thing that occurred to me is it would be a real pisser to be launching or retrieving an inflatable dinghy in the wind, and have it punctured from coming into contact with a protruding cotter pin leg. Also I wouldn't place too much faith in a pin withstanding hundreds of cycles of being slightly bent with pliers. In actual practice, you're going to have thousands upon thousands of cycles of vibration and other motion in the standing rigging over the life of each cotter pin. If the legs are bent tightly against the fastener such that no relative motion is happening between the two, no big deal. But if they are only slightly bent to 15 or 20 or however many degrees, they are going to be constantly moving in the hole, all day, every day that the boat is sailed, or there is wind. It may not be a lot of motion, but the constant nature of it can have a big effect.
For the love of Pete. It's a one time use. It does't matter if bending them around stresses them more initially. That's not the load they will take once in position. The only force the pin will take once installed will be in shear. I feel like someone took 1/2 of a science class and thinks having a youtube channel makes him Mr. Wizzard.
My understanding was that the reason behind the small bend (15 degrees) was to allow you to pull it quickly in an emergency situation (like the rig fails in a storm and you need to get the mast off the boat so you can survive). I had never heard any discussion of metal fatigue. However, I don't think your test is applicable unless you are constantly bending and unbending (reusing) the cotter pins. In the wild, you bend it once, and it is only bent back just before you discard it and replace it with a new one. Also, if you do a small bend, and the bent leg breaks, the pin will fall out. If you do a wrap around, and one leg breaks, the pin won't fall out. In truth, I use a small bend.
Small engines and motorcycles is where I have the most experience with. Both the standard is to wrap them back, 1 breaks and it still holds and less likely to catch on something or some one. Never had one fail
I've used lots of cotterr pins on both cars and motorcycles. *Always* bent both legs right around.. it stops them moving about, and if a leg breaks (which I've never seen), at least the other leg will stop it falling out.
Was trained at American Honda and yes, you trim real long tails, but the cotter pin is bent back and kept close to the bolt (usually threaded with castle nuts). Its designed for this. If you look close, its a bend around, not at a 90 degree. When you remove them, you replace them. I don't think auto and motorcycle manufacturers and engineers would all be doing this wrong. Look at an axle bolt on a motorcycle and see how its done. By the way, depending on its use, I use hairpin cotters on a lot of my clevis pins! :-)
This was quite entertaining, Herby! You had me in stitches. I loved your explanation of the logic you came up with. I won't get into a long explanation or debate here on the pros and cons of the different methods. A few commenters below have provided sufficient reasoning based on their experience. I personally go with wrapping the legs around the clevis pin. This way is in fact a requirement in some areas such as motorcycle road racing competition. If the legs are not wrapped around the clevis, you won't pass tech inspection. There are many reasons why it is preferable to use this method over simply putting a slight bend to the cotter pin legs and allowing them to stick out. In the end though, it's your boat, your clevis pin, your cotter pin, so you get to decide what's best for you. "May the Force be with you."😁
Depends on the specifics of the fitting. If the clevice fits into a fitting that allows a clean wrap of rig tape with the legs of the cotter pin slightly spread and not a snag problem, that's good. I never leave bare cotter pins if possible. Rig wrap em, even when bent around the clevice. Too easy to snag on something, especially sails, usually spinnakers when dousing because they are flapping around all over the place. On boats where rig tune is important, and is adjusted between races on a race day with multiple races, the cotter pin head in the turnbuckles is stitched onto a wrap of velcro. The legs of the cotter pin are trimmed to stick out of the turnbuckle about 1/8". You stick the pin in and wrap the velcro around the turnbuckle to hold it in place. Very quick and secure, easy to remove and replace for adjusting shroud tension.
press against the end of the bent 15* leg, it pushes back in to the clevis hole very easy, or a soft bump on the 15* and its straight again with nothing holding it in the clevis, both a no go in my book. Also the end sticks out and cuts anything close to it like a sail or your hide. To avoid a stress riser at the bend dont go past 15* grab the very end with a stout pair of needle nose and curl like a handlebar moustache putting most of the stress at the last few MM not at the edge of the clevis. and no sharp ends exposed. A good pair of safety wire pliers are a great tool for this.
I have nearly zero sailing experience... but a good bit of aircraft. With them they use few if any clevis pins, but do use clevis bolts and a few castle nuts. One of the main concerns of cotter pin installations is technician safety. Aircraft have many tight confined areas that often require reach throughs, and haphazard installation of cotter pins (safety wire, tie wraps and/or anything sharp) can & do result in lacerations. I'd suspect boaters would have similar concerns... like if someone were to accidentally stumble across a pin and get cut/punctured days from port; would you want to deal with that? How bout if forced to climb a flailing mast some dark night... same risk. Also, I suspect corrosion is your biggest enemy... salt spray, bird droppings[1] and the like. Cool videos, thanks, been subscribed for a while now! [1] I remember reading ages ago about a bridge failure attributed to birds... it seems it's design included many areas favorable for nesting, and their droppings & whatnot greatly accelerated rust. With aircraft, water entrapment areas are always avoided in the design phase... not only for corrosion mitigation, but ice expansion. Regular inspections of forging/casting drain holes are a common thing for some aircraft.
If you take needle nose pliers at the end of the cotter pin and roll it up to where it’s in a roll and not a 90° bend they last forever. They will look like Swiss rolls It takes the stress out of the 90° bend.
I'd go with fully bent because then both of the legs have to break off before it fails! With the 15° bend, the pin can fall out as soon as the first leg breaks and there's even a second failure mode of pushing it out from the legs side without breaking anything off. And if you never ever reuse those things anyway, I don't think it's relevant how often you can bend it.
I don't know which is worse, that you spent all that time and effort testing out the carter pins, or that I spent half an hour watching you do it???????? Another question to answer!!!
Haha! I included it just in case someone wanted to see it bend and break 🤣 I know it’s not a perfect test but the video shows what happened in the test and the drastic difference between the two
After forty five years of being involved in aircraft maintenance I have never seen a wrap around cotter pin work it’s way out! On your Atlantic crossing, the pin holding your boom to the mast dislodged itself and separated at the gooseneck. Obviously, the cotter pin worked its way out. Often a washer is placed under the cotter pin which is secured using the wrap around method. This helps to prevent the holding pin sliding through. In most installations where a holding pin is used, there is a top side flange to prevent it from sliding through the fitting, As a mater of good practice all critical connections should be inspected on a regular basis. It is mandatory that prior to any flight aircraft have a thorough walk around inspection, It seems reasonable, a boat should have a similar inspection as often as practical.
Aircraft and sailboats have different setups, the biggest being the lack of lines swinging around smacking the cotter pins repeatedly. The pin that held our boom on got pushed out by the head of the trysail because I didn’t lower it all the way down. It sat next to the pin for days without issue but one day the wind was right and out went the pin from one of the most torturous places on the boat! Halyards, reef lines, tack lines, and any other thing you could imagine is bashing about as we sail for thousands of miles. We check the pins morning and sunset, as well immediately following the cessation from a storm. This pin was doing just fine all that time because the sail wasn’t pushing on it just the right way. The lesson here is to never leave that sail at that position, lowering it all the way down or raising it up all the way. It’s like stopping your car on perfectly flat ground and putting it in Neutral instead of Park. Probably nothing bad will happen, but you should really put it in Park. This doesn’t mean that Neutral shouldn’t exist in the shift options, as it has its uses and using the improperly is a bigger issue than setting it up like an aircraft.
In my 55 years of bending cotter pins fully around the clevis pin both on sail boats and racing vehicles, I have never had one or both of the legs break. I always replace used cotter pins of course. My practice used however, is to bend based upon potential snagging or catching. If no possibility of snag... I bend 15 degrees. If snag or catch is inevitable..., I wrap the legs around the pin. I have found certain applications in race vehicles have produced opportunities to snag due to tight places.
I’ve always wrapped them round, no problem in 30 years of sailing, last time I had the rig tuned I was recommended to do the 30 degree split, I’ve lost three cotter pins since then, twice I only noticed after the downwind shroud broke free. They turn head down and wriggle out, the last time was in heavy seas off the Shetlands. I immediately went round and wrapped every pin. Sorry but your tests bear no relevance in the real world.
Breakage isn’t my concern when I see you spread them only 15 degrees - it’s slippage. It takes a lot less stress to compress that pin so it’ll slide right out than if they’re bent back.
A cotter pin is subjected to shear and it is therefore important that it fits the diameter of the hole and does not move in the hole. Therefore, it must be placed tightly around the bolt to prevent it from moving up and down. In the video you can see that the split pin is too thin and therefore represents a risk. Just bending up the cotter pin brings also an enormous risk of injury for the people who move on deck!
For turnbuckles, there are many and much better alternatives to cotter pins. They not only keep the turnbuckle from coming apart but hold it from turning at all! And they do this with no sharp bits sticking out. I will be doing a video on turnbuckles in a bit and in it I will discuss the alternative methods. These were jiggling around a bit, but the idea is simple: bend it a little and it takes more to break it, bend it a lot and it breaks sooner.
@@RiggingDoctor NO ot doesn’t as cotter pins are big bent repeatedly nonstop it’s not the bend but the repeated NON STOP bending you did that caused the failure learn a bit about metallurgy and what is happening to the monocular structure as you bend the pin. And ONCE bent you don’t want the pin bending again at all until it is removed and replaced. It won’t face that type of bending unless it gets caught on something repeatedly. The more secure the pin is the less it moves the ends should be bent so they don’t get caught on things and so the pin no longer moves at all. And when it is straightened to remove it you put in a new one when you reinstall the pin. So it will ONLy be bent ONCE aim it’s useable life. Just banging into the fixed pin won’t bend it but something like a sheet or halyard or sail or clothing getting caught on it can and will bend it or break it. So your reasoning is mute and as is your test as repeatedly bending non stop is not the forces a cotter pin faces
Very late comment. But I just watched this. Your approach is interesting and informative. I offer a few thoughts. 15 degree bent legs usually stress one leg more than the other. They leave more exposed sharp points to tear sails, catch lines, and rip your skin. You commented on the difficulty of fully wrapping the legs. Use longer cotter pins, vise grips to hold the clevis pin, and diagonal cutters to tightly wrap the legs. Then cut the legs off near the head with the dikes in your hand. Finally, wrap the entire clevis pin and cotter pin with electrical tape to prevent any tears or skin rips. Now to the other part. If a leg breaks off a 15 degree bend, the cotter pin can fall out. The fully wrapped cotter pin requires both legs to break before it can fall out. As a mechanic, I was taught to fully wrap the legs and cut off the extra. As a sailor, I was taught to fully tape any cotter pins. An alternative is to throw all the cotter pins in the garbage and use wire rings or split rings that don't have sharp edges.
In areas where snagging is a concern, I use seizing wire wrapped around the turnbuckle body and the hole in the turnbuckle screw. I tried to pull up a link from the blog but it appears that I never discussed this, so thank you for bringing that to my attention! I will make that my next blog post.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you. I assume that your reference to seizing wire is similar to safety wire which is used extensively in aircraft and racing applications. I look forward to the post. I assume the twisted end would be tucked and taped. I would not have put these together as I think of a different application for safety wiring.
Another view would be that the head of the cotter pin has already been stressed at manufacture. Spreading the legs would only require a single fracture before falling out. bending them back on themselves would require a fracture in two locations for the pin to come out.
SO , let me get this right , bend one leg 15° & one leg brakes off.....pin falls out Bend BOTH legs all the way around & one leg brakes off....pin STAYS IN.... HUMMMMM....RUN THAT BY ME AGAIN
You keep saying 10x but there are a few factors you didn't take into account. One is rate the bends are cycled. The faster you bend it the more it heats up the metal & snaps quicker. Also once it is bent around the pin & doesn't get unbent 90 degrees & rebent. It would get the same or perhaps less movement after that then the one bent 15 degrees. That would mean less or at the most the same distortion in subsequent cycles as the one bent 15 degrees. Additionally it is less likely to snag & then perhaps less cyclical movement.
Firstly, here in the UK we call them "split pins", cotter pins are very different and not found on boats (unless you have a bike). I would NEVER open the legs a small degree. I always wrap them using taper nose pliers.
I am fairly certain that someone bet Herbie a beer that he couldn't make a cotter pin bending video longer than half of an hour. Challenge accepted. I hope the beer tasted sweet.
Oh my gosh! I was stuck in the bath unable to skip the last 20 minutes but had the greatest pleasure of watching your dancing to music pliers! I'm sure you had great fun making that video!! Keep up the good work guys!!
Test the shear load strength at both ends simultaneously like how they are meant to work. As designed it is supposed to shear the entire pin diameter at both ends of its hole with side loading. Fatigue and work hardening are two very real things and two very different relations to designs. Guess which one you were testing.
Either way works for me. I say do what works best for you, it your boat and your the captain. 8-) As long as the cotter pin doesn't fall out of the hole, it does it's job.
The comments from the other industries and from those that have lost pins strongly suggest the full wrap. My biggest concern is snags from lines or clothing, as I have both distorted and lost ring dings/cotter rings on stays, once while racing. I'm a fanatic about taping them, same with pins if possible. As someone hoping to sail solo around the lower part of the world my concern would be jettissing a downed mast quickly which suggests small bend, but would also increase the chance of a collapse in the first place. Typically I thought the idea was to cut the wire and usually sail with tools for this purpose. Great video got me thinking, got me laughing.
When on my apprenticeship my journeyman tolled me that there was a special place in Hell for a man that bent both legs of a cotter pin. We were working 1/4" steel pin. To remove a pin like the one you have with both legs rolled back is a real tough job. So just bend one.
Interesting angle, however 1. There is a special tool to lock secure the pin, and they are fabricated for one time use. 2. The property of the pins are such that actually before using they should be heated up to 200° C . Which will alline the molecules of the pins. 3. this information is from Vitters one of the big ship yards Netherlands. 4. Same kind of process you find in Aerospace and Automotive industry.
I tried to reuse a cotter pin, it broke on the THIRD time while removing it ~ I think there are more variables involved to simply conclude that the 487 times in your test has any relevance to real world applications... I would HIGHLY suggest using a new one EVERY TIME unless it's on a one time use project/disposable item.
Good info, less bend when protection and interference is not critical. Get the ends out of the way when they are potential snags. YO... big dang hoo in nice background picture (data?) great tunes, thanks
In my humble opinion - only if you reuse the split pins would it be an issue with work hardening. Fold them over but never reuse a cheap it's a one use item!
For some reason and in certain instances prefer to change cutter more frequently than risk damaging a sail because it's sliding and catching on a 15 deg cotter.....my two cents worth.
I think your theory is wrong. The metal is stressed more yes, but the work hardening from bending it further makes it hold in place. The Cotter pin does not see those loads when installed. The real test is how hard it is to pull out of the hole and what pressure it would take to shear it. The slightly bent Cotter pin could be potentially knocked out if a line or something were to strike it just right.
Problem is the legs are way more likely to get caught on things that might stress those legs if they are sticking out if they are bent out of the way and back they are bent ONCE and very unlikely anything will bend it at all until you go to remove that cotter pin and then you use a new one when you reinstall. Also it’s not JUST how many times you bend the leg but how many times in a SHORT period of time. HEAT is generated when metal is repeatedly flexed the frequency of that bending had far more to do with fatigue. Bend it faster it will fail in less bends BUT each bend if it is a further Bend is in the bending process longer so it breaks in fewer bends. But it’s is still the rearranging of molecules and the heat that creates that causes the failure. Bending a cotter pin once so the legs won’t get caught and possibly unbend or push the pin out is by far the safer bend. And Yes the Bend caused some fatigue BUT not enough to cause failure and the legs being less likely to get caught far out ways the number of times you can bend it before it fails as your never supposed to bend it again without replacing it.
Interesting test, but I think it can be expanded on. First off; automotive uses may not be as applicable to rigging, less vibration ( in my opinion). I think what last of the comments are referring to are the pins coming out. Extra security. I feel the next step is friction. Understanding that the cotter pins are not under any load, but falling out being the issue. Does the weakened pin ( according to your test) pull out with less force than the pin bent at 15 degrees?
JAFO understood, we have our own reservations about the information but nonetheless it’s great that someone out there is making videos like this versus the same ol’ T&A videos shoved in our faces. We love the Nitty gritty technical and DIY videos. Cheers!
great video but unfortunately your test was irrelevant to the life of a cotter pin, it may have been fun and the maths may have been fun but the fact remains that the cotter pin is a single use item, so the only bending cycles it receives after installation is via snagging on things under load. If you wrap the legs right around and tuck the ends as close to the head as possible the chances of snagging are almost zero, not true with your 15 degrees, as for using up its life on installation the pin is designed to be installed any work hardening occurring on installation has been taken into account in it's design. So in short I believe you are giving poor advise with the 15 degree thing, and as for it being a little harder most things done correctly are a little harder.
I love your perseverance, great video! I looked this up for putting on dirt bike foot pegs, and ended up wrapping them. I did notice stainless was much harder to bend compared to regular steel... Were your tests stainless?
The probability of a 'bend cycle' taking place is much higher if the pin is mostly open and repeatedly hits something or the other. If its bent out of the way, yes the initial fatigue is higher but in the daily usage no more 'bend cycles' should take place. isn't it?
Yes, Math is fun. However, you have made some base assumptions that I think are false. You are assuming that each bend puts in the same amount of stress. However I'm thinking that each bend makes the material less ductile and thus each successive bend puts in more stress than the previous one. That means it is not a straight line and the first bend puts in MUCH less stress than the last. Don't know if that would result in a log scale or not but it would make things a lot different. Also, we are looking at one of the "pins" of the cotter pin failing. Which solution would be best if one does fail? I'm thinking the 15 degree bend, with only 1 pin, would pull through pretty easily while the wrap around wouldn't be able to pull through. And, then there's how you bend it. The sharper the angle of the actual start of the bend could make a big difference as well. Using heavy pliers and making that a sharp 90 degree bend and then bending the rest of the pin around the clevis would be worse then doing a more gentle rounded bend! Oh, and there is the quality of the cotter pin. You can purchase different quality ones. Finally, another option I've seen is to use pliers, grab the longer pin and and bend it "around" with the pliers, leave the other one alone! Anyway, thanks for making me think!
So its weaker but if the other one can be knocked through how much easier? The risk would be which is going to fail more the knock through or the shorter stress life. Kind of missing the other half of the test. also if been banged how likly is it to bend back that 15 degrees. I would imagine the little bent one would be easier to bend back and like you said they turn around in the pin... Its almost like you focused on only the failure method How much force was required to bend back the slightly spread cotter.
1. Always use a new pin (unless temporary until you can replace with new , emergency) 2. Bend both, opposite directions around. 3. Clip excess. Done Shortcuts can kill someone.
A note to anyone watching this and wondering about real life consequences of installing a cotter pin as prescribed in the video, please see @RiggingDoctor video posted on August 29, 2021 where the boom detached during their Atlantic crossing because the cotter pin fell out and then the clevis pin fell out on the gooseneck. To quote Joe Friday “just the facts ma’am”
The boom did come detached but that was because we didn’t lower our trysail all the way. Lesson learned! Since the legs were not work hardened, nothing broke and we were able to simply reassemble everything as all the parts remained on deck. Had the legs been bent all the way around, that pressure could have broken a work hardened leg off and the same would have resulted but we wouldn’t have been able to reassemble the pieces because the cotter pin would be broken. “Just the facts ma’am” The lesson is that cotter pins should not have things pushing on them and if you do, bad things can happen.
I am sorry to say this is a situation I have been thinking about many times over my life. Work hardening requires repeated flexing as you showed. One bend does not ¨work harden"a metal. However, how do you secure the 15 degree bent pin so as not to catch on sheets and sails and skin to prevent damage? I used to bend 15 degrees and then slide a plastic turnbuckle cover over it with the cotter pin being the same length approx. as the inside diameter of the tube of the cover over it. Nothing can stress it then and nothing can get hung up. Just lift up the cover and you can pull the pin easily, insert a new pin and drop the cover, done. I got tired of having to hold the covers up when retuning over the years so I switched to split rings. However, while they do not catch on skin, i have experienced rings that have opened from getting caught on sheets and had to be replaced. Dont think I ever had one completely come out but it was such a frequent occurance that I have ceased using them and returned to the sleeved method. In that most of my boats have been deck stepped masts I think its important to be able jetison the mast quickly if it comes down to get it away from the hull. Quickly is impossible with fully bent cotter pins while it is with 15 degree bent pins. 71 years on the water I have seen a lot of things but to see half a dozen split rings fail in these applications is a lot more than I am willing to accept. The experiences here witness that 15 degree is reliable as are fully wrapped pins. One way leaves an injury and damage risk to other components. That makes it a simple choice to me.
Never leave straight, always fit new and bend tight as possible to reduce snagging. Tape if possible to reduce snagging further......don't use the key ring type.
@@Garryck-1 if done correctly it both reduces snagging because the ends are tucked in under the head and reduces movement. also if snagging is a probable outcome just round the ends with some paper or a smooth file
i also dont think your taking int account the radius. i think folding them back on themselves is cleaner. and for a bazzilion cycle they will hold up until my next trip up the mast. but im on a small boat witha simple rig
Work hardening your test. Each time you said was one is two. Time 1st bend is not work hardening the pin. Repeated bending does work harden steel yes. If you look at the engineering studys done at the Edison institute on work hardening of fasteners and the transverse strength. If you worked on my plane or boat and did that to save time. You would have plenty of time to do what ever you want your fired.
Yeah…I have to go with bending both back. That one slightly bent leg gets snagged or breaks it’s over. They would twice as unlikely if they’re both bent.
The thing is, they shouldn’t be getting snagged. They do get smacked around a lot though and when they are bent far over, they are more likely to break off, leading to them falling out and it being all over.
@@RiggingDoctor , my point being that if only one is bent and that breaks off, the pin is free to slide out. If two are bent and one breaks off, one might hold the pin in place until the next inspection. My logic could be wrong, and I would be cautious in arguing the point with a rigger who does this for a living. JMHO.
This video was to exemplify why it is important to follow the instructions of mast manufacturers who want the pins bent 15° instead of wrapped all the way around like people insist on doing. The issue is the legs are significantly weakened by the one drastic bend and are at higher risk of breaking when repeatedly struck by halyards and other running rigging.
Well, you do mention fatique. AFAIK, fatique comes from repeated bending - as in thousands or million times of repeated bending. Not from once bending a pin around. Please hold that in mind. And put in a fresh pin every time you need to assemble the things. And consider what the pros are writing.
15* is all you need. The video was going to be really short, but then I thought “someone’s going to complain about how the test was carried out” if they can’t see it, so I included the test. The “all the way” broke in a few bends while the 15* took FOREVER to break!
@@RiggingDoctor thank you!! I actually went ahead with 15. You’re probably annoyed at answering all the “long video” gripes so I appreciate the patience.
I bend mine 15° and this video is why. In areas where snagging is an issue, I use a different method that way the legs don’t stick out and snag on things.
I bought some reels in a sale about 15 years ago and a reel lasts ages! I just checked and it is easily available in the US as fishing supplies, in large reels to (I am in Canada). The use it for down-rigger weights in deep water trolling @@RiggingDoctor
Friend: Hey Ben what did you do last night? Ben: Oh I watched Herbie bend cotter pins until they broke while counting how many times it took them to break. Friend: Ben you need to get a life! AND so should Herbie!
I dare you to wrap a cotter pin with tape that is not wrapped around the clevis. And if you don't wrap it with tape have plenty of band aids and sail tape on board!
That is how I do them up the mast, 15* bend and no tape. If placed properly, no issues will result. If they are in a “high snag area” I use cotter rings instead. On the deck I use wire to retain, restrain, and lay flush.
Foremost THEY ARE SPLIT PINS and NOT cotter pins and they are not the correct pins for that purpose. Split pins should have one leg longer than the other, be of the correct diameter to fit the hole and not protrude through more than 1 cm or 1/2". Then the shorter leg is lifted enough to stop the pin from falling out of the hole, around 30-45 degrees and that is all that is required. No bending the pins double or wrapped around nuts.
@Rigging Doctor No what I am describing is a SPLIT PIN, cotter pins hold pedals to bicycles and have a thread and nut on one end and a tapered surface. They are different things.
Herbie, you have no idea. Cotter pins? How about lockwire inside a turbojet engine? Not for the faint of heart: ruclips.net/video/hcxHQXYU-Os/видео.html
Please... A cotter pin is to be used one time not to be bent repeatedly 50 times... I can think of no use of a cotter pin where it would even accidentally be bent 50 times... But one hit on the end of a spread cotter pin can drive it out of the hole it's in, which I've done with a hammer, no breaking necessary... Whereas a bent cotter pin has to be unbent before it can be removed... Which is kind of the whole point of a cotter pin... to remain where it was placed until forcibly removed...
They get hit thousands of times by halyards which will break the legs. If they are bent all the way over they are going to break off sooner than ones bent only 15°. They are all one time use, but we want it to still be in the mast when we go up there to take it out!
I went into this whole thing about NAVY regulations building a Torpedo and how to bend the cutter pins. When your dealing with any weapons manual, be it ashore or afloat, all rules and regs safety precautions and warnings are there due to someone dying or losing a body part, finger, hand, eye and so on. And I knew you would say were talking about sailing here. And I put a LOL!!! Anyway, it's lost in space. I wrote it before you left the states. Crazy!
Or on a fixed wing set up,, helo set up, as a Asrock,, out a torpedo tube above or below the water line, or really big one........inside of it. I built them you see.
And I told you you were going to say it is not comparable, in some way. Because you already had done it to someone else. But I still can't find it. I'll shoot you a message if I ever do! Lol! Hope you guys are having a great lunch or snack!🍻🍨🍦
I’m sorry, but, I have never seen a broken cotter pin. Have you tried to break one? C’mon. Bend it and forget it. Why be worrying if you have it bent enough to stay in. And if bending them the whole entire way until they wrap around the pin, or removing them is too time consuming that it’s causing overtime and $$, you need to find another career because, I guarantee you have bigger problems, and you are charging way too much in $$ or time to do the work. I a. Terribly sorry for the run-on sentence.
I did try to break them! 15 degrees felt like forever and 90 went really quick. In practice, I have come across missing pins and pins with one leg in them. I know up the mast it’s 15* but on the same boat on the prop it’s wrapped around. Different rules for different applications.
I shall offer an apology, but not ask for forgiveness in my rudeness, as I do not deserve it. I’m sorry, it’s been quite a week for me. But in the grand scheme of things, very trivial in comparison. Anyway, whether agree or disagree, I can respect everyone’s experiences and opinions. As far as the prop application, my suspicions are the potential to exposure of high vibration, although the wind can do the same. So, go figure.
As a former aircraft tech. Cotter pins are used only once! They should be bent properly. Yes, they can be a pain. But they are essential for keep your riggning to stay up! Tape them to protect sails, clothes ect.. This is a non issue, as they are very cheap! Clickbait ranting...
You have done the general public a disservice. Your non-scientific reasoning is flawed and unsafe. To use the fatigue method as reason for saying one method is safer than an another is like saying all metal objects that are bent over 30 degrees is weaker and therefore should not be used. Of course that is not true. Yes, there are times in certain situations where you may not want to full wrap a cotter pin, but those are specific individual situations and NOT to be use in general installations. That includes sail boat rigging. Cotter pins are by design meant to be bent. The fact they are stressed is taken into account by design. They know this and that is part of why they are a one time use only item. You come off as if the engineers who have spent literally decades of research and design of cotter pins have not done this testing. They have... as an experimental flight test mechanic myself, I know they have because I have done it... A LOT. What you did here today is my job, to run testing like this and find out if those designs are good or bad. I can say that NO, your methods of testing and reasoning are incorrect and dangerous. Trust in the aviation methods... as they have all been written in blood. Literally. Everything in the aviation maintenance methods regulations are there because someone has died because of it.
I made this video because of the stark number of comments I got on a previous video about the cotter pin legs. In rigging books, it specifically says that up on a mast they are only to be bent 15*. This was a good way to visually represent that. Up the mast is different from on an airplane or any other part of the boat for that matter. You figure the propeller on a boat will have a cotter pin in the end of the shaft bent all the way around the shaft tip! Sorry for offending you with this video. Bending the pins the aircraft way is correct to do on aircraft, but not in spars. I was trying to get that point across. Do you have any suggestions for a better way to visually represent this?
Not offended at all. Just worried someone might see this and do something that may compromise their rigging. It's just the method used to come to the conclusion. You are actually on the right track! Fatigue is one of the major reasons you only use a pin once. Instead of asking which method is safer ask what are the conditions the pins is being used? Also how and why a pin might fail in that circumstance. I've seen meny broken cotton pins over the years and in the majority of those cases the pin was either the wrong material or re-bent in some manner. Thus it's not the final method they end up with that is dangerous, rather the method to which it was installed. If you bend it once, it's done. You bend it TWICE you have just compromised the strength of the pin. Whether you bend it 40 times or 400 times is mute. Now if that pin is only bent 15* what do you think the odds are that someone is going to just push that baby right back in the hole instead of replacing it? What I've seen, it goes right back in the hole and re-bent! Now you're set up for failure. If the pin is totally wrapped around chances are you will not be able to reuse that pin even if you wanted to. The biggest thing to stress here is never re-bend a cotter pin in a safety related installation. On the wrong material side, not all cotton pins are the same. To make it even worse is that the quality of the material is very different from where they come from. Knowing not only that you have the correct type of pin, but also if it will be made of a high quality material. Your normal cotton pins from your local auto parts store are horrible! They will rust out sooner than later. Make sure you buy the right pin for the installation and condition's it will be installed and of a high enough of quality.
@@RiggingDoctor - Just because the rigging books say it, doesn't necessarily make it so, IMO. Wouldn't be the first time something has been handed down as gospel from one generation to the next, and never been questioned, simply because it was "accepted wisdom" (no pun intended), but later found to be incorrect, when someone actually tested it out.
@@phantumdrummer So true mention the human factor, .."it goes right back in the hole and re-bent!". Another real life concern would be the steel quality of these. The real country-of-origin and original manufacture of parts can be really hard to figure out. It would be interesting to see a "relevant" scientific tests of common pins done!
his experiment shows the bending of a cotter pin at a single point on the pin at either 15 degrees or 90 degrees. but what if the bend is spread over a longer length of the pin. instead of bending the pin 90 degrees at a single point, the 90 degree bend is spread out over several millimeters of the length of the cotter pin. would't that reduce the point stress on the pin?
This is wrong... Bend the cotter pin all the way around, both sides. If one side fails, then the other side will keep it from falling out and keep your mast from falling down. Leaving them unbent on one side and bent a few degrees is not the safest solution. There should be no additional forces applied to the cotter or split pin once cold formed into the fully bent position, and doing both sides is what you want. You want those ends out of the way from getting snagged where they can bend back. You want the cotter pin to be free floating in the hole also. And you don't want the ends out where they can get snagged.
I love your channel but I am sorry buddy. You got this one wrong. Rolling the cotter locks it in place and does not allow rotation or chatter. As the locked in cotters only load is in shear there is less movement of said cotter pin and thus less chance of rub wear on the cotter from the clevis or castle nut. Not to mention that a cotter pin is ROLLED. They are designed to take the metal stretch and ARE A ONE TIME use item.... I can not emphasize enough NEVER USE THEM TWICE!
I'm really sorry I had to unsubscribe, but your questions completely blocked my access to RUclips and it's the only way I could find to get past them. Definitely a RUclips bug, but it drove me away.
Many mistakes on this video - for one, your test introduced heat from bending the pin leg back and forth full angle multiple times, which isn't representative of the real mechanical stress such a pin would experience (if anything - such repeated bending is more likely to occur if you leave the tails long AND not bent around the clevis pin). Second - you didn't consider the speed of turning the pin tails around, which also would have significant impact on the heating and consequently - strength of the metal - doing it slowly allows the metal to bend with less stress (work hardening) and heat than of you do it fast. Another factor is how you bend the tail - I use needle nose pliers with round jaws, and wrap the tail around slowly - that way I avoid creating a sharp angle in the tail, avoid heating it, and as long as I don't try to cheap out by reusing what is only meant to be used once - never had one break. You're comparing one method allowing for 487 or so cycles while the other allows for only 44, for a pin that is only intended to have one cycle before you replace it with a new one - not really relevant... One last point against leaving the tails straight instead of wrapping them around the clevis pin is that wrapping them around usually puts them neatly inside the bottlescrew, whereas leaving them straight like you showed is almost always going to give the sails and/sheets and halyards something to rub against or get cut by and from that - rip.
A few points that are often overlooked on sailboats: 1. Selden, a very reputable mast company, says to bend the legs 20° and to leave the legs straight out. Why? The main reason is that this is a sailboat and not an airplane. On airplanes, the rule is to bend them all the way around. On sailboats, the rule is to leave the legs straight. 2. The bottle screws have the cotter pin for a few reasons, one is to prevent the bottle screw from twisting out of the turnbuckle and causing the mast to fall down. The cotter pin acts as a “last safety” to keep it from coming out at the end. The other reason for the cotter pin is to prevent the bottle screw from turning at all as any turn would lead to the rigging becoming out of tune. If you bend it over nicely, the turnbuckle can spin over it and you lose the ability to keep the tune of your rig. If the legs are straight, the body can’t spin over it and the rig tune is preserved. As for sails rigging, the legs are to be wrapped in a fabric tape to protect the sails. Selden in their manual says to do this to prevent damage to the sails as this is the obvious problem with them sticking out. So, you can do it the right way or you can do it the wrong way. It’s your boat, so I don’t really care how you do it. I just made this video to show you the right way to do it. The fact that you have never had a leg break is great, but I see a ton of pins bent all the way around with only one leg as the other one broke off. I also see a bunch without a pin in it probably because it fell off when the legs broke off. Good luck and keep a close eye on the pins to replace them when they break and fall out.
I would suggest giving the other videos a looksy. This one was just to prove a point. I only included the insanely long test because I knew people would question the drastic difference in the results. I put it at the end so that no one would need to sit through it, pretty much included as an annotation at the back of a book. The only thing more painful than watching me do the test was my arm from actually doing the test!
Some of your most ridiculous work. Others have covered its ridiculousness in the comments, suffice to say, just because you have a hypothesis doesn’t make it so.
People should really read the instructions from spar manufacturers. Selden specifically says 10° per leg, not to bend it all the way around. The pins I find with one leg always have the other leg bent all the way around. One can assume the missing leg was also over bent. Take a work hardened metal and beat it with a halyard forever and the little leg will break off. The missing pins are harder to say how they were, but they tend to be on boats where all the pins are bent all the way around. You do you on your own boat and ignore the correct way of doing things. This was just a fun little demonstration to showcase the right way to bend a cotter pin on a sailboat (not for aviation usage, they bend the whole way around but also don’t have halyards to worry about).
@@RiggingDoctor the point, covered elsewhere in the comments, is that once bent into position, they don't cycle, work harden any more than the first set. So the cycles of use to failure demonstration has nothing to do with the application.
Yes it was, but people don’t seem to follow the instructions from the spar manufacturers and bend the legs all the way around. This video is to show them why they should only bend them 15°
@@RiggingDoctor when you only bend 15° are like needles sticking out hurting people. You should only bend those one time and not 40 or 400 times. Once placed and removed the pin is to be renewed.
![[All About] Boat Propellers and Prop Walk | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E1dt19C_vxE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[All About] Boat Propellers and Prop Walk | Sailing Wisdom](/img/tr.png)
![WHY Two Headsails? [Cutter vs Slutter vs Solent] | Sailing Wisdom](/img/1.gif)
Many who have had a leg break off a cotter pin probably tried to straighten and re-use it. What I have more commonly seen on aircraft, is cotter pins that have gotten repeatedly snagged and bent (on clothing or rags from pilots and mechanics inspecting the aircraft), and then pushed back into place; eventually one of the legs fatigues and breaks off. Which is why the industry standard is for the legs to be bent as tightly against the fastener as possible, and then trimmed short to minimize the possibility of snags.
In the comments to your post asking for input on the thumbnail for this video, you asked that everybody keep in mind that you are talking about sailboats and not aircraft, which is a point well made. But also consider that a lot of the same factors apply... You still need to be concerned with the cotter pins getting snagged on lines, sails, clothing, etc and damaging those things, as well as having the pins get bent and eventually fail from repeated bending cycles. One thing that occurred to me is it would be a real pisser to be launching or retrieving an inflatable dinghy in the wind, and have it punctured from coming into contact with a protruding cotter pin leg.
Also I wouldn't place too much faith in a pin withstanding hundreds of cycles of being slightly bent with pliers. In actual practice, you're going to have thousands upon thousands of cycles of vibration and other motion in the standing rigging over the life of each cotter pin. If the legs are bent tightly against the fastener such that no relative motion is happening between the two, no big deal. But if they are only slightly bent to 15 or 20 or however many degrees, they are going to be constantly moving in the hole, all day, every day that the boat is sailed, or there is wind. It may not be a lot of motion, but the constant nature of it can have a big effect.
Nice! I came from the offshore oil industry, we did many things to aircraft standards. It solved and prevented a lot of issues.
Full bend is how i was trained in several Aircraft and Deck maintenance classes in the US Navy and antenna tower classes.
Fantastic reply ...also from an aircraft tech..always keep your pins clean.
I've never seen a cotter pin on aircraft. We only used safety wire.
SkylersRants some carburetor control linkages use cotter pins like on the 172M’s
For the love of Pete. It's a one time use. It does't matter if bending them around stresses them more initially. That's not the load they will take once in position. The only force the pin will take once installed will be in shear. I feel like someone took 1/2 of a science class and thinks having a youtube channel makes him Mr. Wizzard.
My understanding was that the reason behind the small bend (15 degrees) was to allow you to pull it quickly in an emergency situation (like the rig fails in a storm and you need to get the mast off the boat so you can survive). I had never heard any discussion of metal fatigue. However, I don't think your test is applicable unless you are constantly bending and unbending (reusing) the cotter pins. In the wild, you bend it once, and it is only bent back just before you discard it and replace it with a new one. Also, if you do a small bend, and the bent leg breaks, the pin will fall out. If you do a wrap around, and one leg breaks, the pin won't fall out. In truth, I use a small bend.
Small engines and motorcycles is where I have the most experience with. Both the standard is to wrap them back, 1 breaks and it still holds and less likely to catch on something or some one. Never had one fail
I've used lots of cotterr pins on both cars and motorcycles. *Always* bent both legs right around.. it stops them moving about, and if a leg breaks (which I've never seen), at least the other leg will stop it falling out.
Was trained at American Honda and yes, you trim real long tails, but the cotter pin is bent back and kept close to the bolt (usually threaded with castle nuts). Its designed for this. If you look close, its a bend around, not at a 90 degree. When you remove them, you replace them. I don't think auto and motorcycle manufacturers and engineers would all be doing this wrong. Look at an axle bolt on a motorcycle and see how its done. By the way, depending on its use, I use hairpin cotters on a lot of my clevis pins! :-)
For what its worth, this was posted from an Army manual. aviationmiscmanuals.tpub.com/TM-1-1500-204-23-6/img/TM-1-1500-204-23-6_87_0.jpg
Seizing wire is better
thanks nice job Hiram
🤝
I love how you get into all the small details of sailing. Thanks for all your hard work doing these videos.
This was quite entertaining, Herby! You had me in stitches. I loved your explanation of the logic you came up with. I won't get into a long explanation or debate here on the pros and cons of the different methods. A few commenters below have provided sufficient reasoning based on their experience. I personally go with wrapping the legs around the clevis pin. This way is in fact a requirement in some areas such as motorcycle road racing competition. If the legs are not wrapped around the clevis, you won't pass tech inspection. There are many reasons why it is preferable to use this method over simply putting a slight bend to the cotter pin legs and allowing them to stick out. In the end though, it's your boat, your clevis pin, your cotter pin, so you get to decide what's best for you. "May the Force be with you."😁
Depends on the specifics of the fitting. If the clevice fits into a fitting that allows a clean wrap of rig tape with the legs of the cotter pin slightly spread and not a snag problem, that's good. I never leave bare cotter pins if possible. Rig wrap em, even when bent around the clevice. Too easy to snag on something, especially sails, usually spinnakers when dousing because they are flapping around all over the place.
On boats where rig tune is important, and is adjusted between races on a race day with multiple races, the cotter pin head in the turnbuckles is stitched onto a wrap of velcro. The legs of the cotter pin are trimmed to stick out of the turnbuckle about 1/8". You stick the pin in and wrap the velcro around the turnbuckle to hold it in place. Very quick and secure, easy to remove and replace for adjusting shroud tension.
Agreed!
press against the end of the bent 15* leg, it pushes back in to the clevis hole very easy, or a soft bump on the 15* and its straight again with nothing holding it in the clevis, both a no go in my book. Also the end sticks out and cuts anything close to it like a sail or your hide. To avoid a stress riser at the bend dont go past 15* grab the very end with a stout pair of needle nose and curl like a handlebar moustache putting most of the stress at the last few MM not at the edge of the clevis. and no sharp ends exposed. A good pair of safety wire pliers are a great tool for this.
I have nearly zero sailing experience... but a good bit of aircraft. With them they use few if any clevis pins, but do use clevis bolts and a few castle nuts. One of the main concerns of cotter pin installations is technician safety. Aircraft have many tight confined areas that often require reach throughs, and haphazard installation of cotter pins (safety wire, tie wraps and/or anything sharp) can & do result in lacerations. I'd suspect boaters would have similar concerns... like if someone were to accidentally stumble across a pin and get cut/punctured days from port; would you want to deal with that? How bout if forced to climb a flailing mast some dark night... same risk. Also, I suspect corrosion is your biggest enemy... salt spray, bird droppings[1] and the like. Cool videos, thanks, been subscribed for a while now!
[1] I remember reading ages ago about a bridge failure attributed to birds... it seems it's design included many areas favorable for nesting, and their droppings & whatnot greatly accelerated rust. With aircraft, water entrapment areas are always avoided in the design phase... not only for corrosion mitigation, but ice expansion. Regular inspections of forging/casting drain holes are a common thing for some aircraft.
If you take needle nose pliers at the end of the cotter pin and roll it up to where it’s in a roll and not a 90° bend they last forever. They will look like Swiss rolls It takes the stress out of the 90° bend.
Flemish your cotter pins. Never tried that.
I'd go with fully bent because then both of the legs have to break off before it fails! With the 15° bend, the pin can fall out as soon as the first leg breaks and there's even a second failure mode of pushing it out from the legs side without breaking anything off. And if you never ever reuse those things anyway, I don't think it's relevant how often you can bend it.
I don't know which is worse, that you spent all that time and effort testing out the carter pins, or that I spent half an hour watching you do it???????? Another question to answer!!!
lol!
Haha! I included it just in case someone wanted to see it bend and break 🤣
I know it’s not a perfect test but the video shows what happened in the test and the drastic difference between the two
After forty five years of being involved in aircraft maintenance I have never seen a wrap around cotter pin work it’s way out! On your Atlantic crossing, the pin holding your boom to the mast dislodged itself and separated at the gooseneck. Obviously, the cotter pin worked its way out.
Often a washer is placed under the cotter pin which is secured using the wrap around method. This helps to prevent the holding pin sliding through. In most installations where a holding pin is used, there is a top side flange to prevent it from sliding through the fitting,
As a mater of good practice all critical connections should be inspected on a regular basis. It is mandatory that prior to any flight aircraft have a thorough walk around inspection, It seems reasonable, a boat should have a similar inspection as often as practical.
Aircraft and sailboats have different setups, the biggest being the lack of lines swinging around smacking the cotter pins repeatedly.
The pin that held our boom on got pushed out by the head of the trysail because I didn’t lower it all the way down. It sat next to the pin for days without issue but one day the wind was right and out went the pin from one of the most torturous places on the boat! Halyards, reef lines, tack lines, and any other thing you could imagine is bashing about as we sail for thousands of miles.
We check the pins morning and sunset, as well immediately following the cessation from a storm. This pin was doing just fine all that time because the sail wasn’t pushing on it just the right way.
The lesson here is to never leave that sail at that position, lowering it all the way down or raising it up all the way. It’s like stopping your car on perfectly flat ground and putting it in Neutral instead of Park. Probably nothing bad will happen, but you should really put it in Park. This doesn’t mean that Neutral shouldn’t exist in the shift options, as it has its uses and using the improperly is a bigger issue than setting it up like an aircraft.
In my 55 years of bending cotter pins fully around the clevis pin both on sail boats and racing vehicles, I have never had one or both of the legs break. I always replace used cotter pins of course. My practice used however, is to bend based upon potential snagging or catching. If no possibility of snag... I bend 15 degrees. If snag or catch is inevitable..., I wrap the legs around the pin. I have found certain applications in race vehicles have produced opportunities to snag due to tight places.
I’ve always wrapped them round, no problem in 30 years of sailing, last time I had the rig tuned I was recommended to do the 30 degree split, I’ve lost three cotter pins since then, twice I only noticed after the downwind shroud broke free. They turn head down and wriggle out, the last time was in heavy seas off the Shetlands. I immediately went round and wrapped every pin. Sorry but your tests bear no relevance in the real world.
It was the best way I could show to visually demonstrate the issue. That’s a shame that you have had 3 pins come out!
Breakage isn’t my concern when I see you spread them only 15 degrees - it’s slippage. It takes a lot less stress to compress that pin so it’ll slide right out than if they’re bent back.
@@dwayne_travels - Exactly! Over time, the little buggers can wriggle their way out, if they were only slightly bent to start with.
A cotter pin is subjected to shear and it is therefore important that it fits the diameter of the hole and does not move in the hole. Therefore, it must be placed tightly around the bolt to prevent it from moving up and down. In the video you can see that the split pin is too thin and therefore represents a risk. Just bending up the cotter pin brings also an enormous risk of injury for the people who move on deck!
For turnbuckles, there are many and much better alternatives to cotter pins. They not only keep the turnbuckle from coming apart but hold it from turning at all! And they do this with no sharp bits sticking out.
I will be doing a video on turnbuckles in a bit and in it I will discuss the alternative methods.
These were jiggling around a bit, but the idea is simple: bend it a little and it takes more to break it, bend it a lot and it breaks sooner.
@@RiggingDoctor NO ot doesn’t as cotter pins are big bent repeatedly nonstop it’s not the bend but the repeated NON STOP bending you did that caused the failure learn a bit about metallurgy and what is happening to the monocular structure as you bend the pin. And ONCE bent you don’t want the pin bending again at all until it is removed and replaced. It won’t face that type of bending unless it gets caught on something repeatedly. The more secure the pin is the less it moves the ends should be bent so they don’t get caught on things and so the pin no longer moves at all. And when it is straightened to remove it you put in a new one when you reinstall the pin. So it will ONLy be bent ONCE aim it’s useable life. Just banging into the fixed pin won’t bend it but something like a sheet or halyard or sail or clothing getting caught on it can and will bend it or break it. So your reasoning is mute and as is your test as repeatedly bending non stop is not the forces a cotter pin faces
Very late comment. But I just watched this. Your approach is interesting and informative. I offer a few thoughts. 15 degree bent legs usually stress one leg more than the other. They leave more exposed sharp points to tear sails, catch lines, and rip your skin. You commented on the difficulty of fully wrapping the legs. Use longer cotter pins, vise grips to hold the clevis pin, and diagonal cutters to tightly wrap the legs. Then cut the legs off near the head with the dikes in your hand. Finally, wrap the entire clevis pin and cotter pin with electrical tape to prevent any tears or skin rips.
Now to the other part. If a leg breaks off a 15 degree bend, the cotter pin can fall out. The fully wrapped cotter pin requires both legs to break before it can fall out.
As a mechanic, I was taught to fully wrap the legs and cut off the extra. As a sailor, I was taught to fully tape any cotter pins.
An alternative is to throw all the cotter pins in the garbage and use wire rings or split rings that don't have sharp edges.
In areas where snagging is a concern, I use seizing wire wrapped around the turnbuckle body and the hole in the turnbuckle screw. I tried to pull up a link from the blog but it appears that I never discussed this, so thank you for bringing that to my attention! I will make that my next blog post.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you. I assume that your reference to seizing wire is similar to safety wire which is used extensively in aircraft and racing applications. I look forward to the post. I assume the twisted end would be tucked and taped. I would not have put these together as I think of a different application for safety wiring.
Another view would be that the head of the cotter pin has already been stressed at manufacture. Spreading the legs would only require a single fracture before falling out. bending them back on themselves would require a fracture in two locations for the pin to come out.
SO , let me get this right , bend one leg 15° & one leg brakes off.....pin falls out
Bend BOTH legs all the way around & one leg brakes off....pin STAYS IN....
HUMMMMM....RUN THAT BY ME AGAIN
EXACTLY! I was about to make the same point.
Also if they're bent over like that they're going to see less snags and bumps to begin with, which needs to be taken into the equation i think.
You keep saying 10x but there are a few factors you didn't take into account. One is rate the bends are cycled. The faster you bend it the more it heats up the metal & snaps quicker. Also once it is bent around the pin & doesn't get unbent 90 degrees & rebent. It would get the same or perhaps less movement after that then the one bent 15 degrees. That would mean less or at the most the same distortion in subsequent cycles as the one bent 15 degrees. Additionally it is less likely to snag & then perhaps less cyclical movement.
Firstly, here in the UK we call them "split pins", cotter pins are very different and not found on boats (unless you have a bike). I would NEVER open the legs a small degree. I always wrap them using taper nose pliers.
I am fairly certain that someone bet Herbie a beer that he couldn't make a cotter pin bending video longer than half of an hour. Challenge accepted.
I hope the beer tasted sweet.
I need the ice cold beer for my arm after bending that damn pin a million times!
🤣 🍺
Oh my gosh! I was stuck in the bath unable to skip the last 20 minutes but had the greatest pleasure of watching your dancing to music pliers! I'm sure you had great fun making that video!! Keep up the good work guys!!
It is a better job bent right round out of the way. Thay have no stress once installed Plus it's a split pin acting as a cotter pin
Test the shear load strength at both ends simultaneously like how they are meant to work. As designed it is supposed to shear the entire pin diameter at both ends of its hole with side loading. Fatigue and work hardening are two very real things and two very different relations to designs. Guess which one you were testing.
ALWAYS BEND THEM AROUND. END OF STORY.
Either way works for me. I say do what works best for you, it your boat and your the captain. 8-) As long as the cotter pin doesn't fall out of the hole, it does it's job.
The comments from the other industries and from those that have lost pins strongly suggest the full wrap. My biggest concern is snags from lines or clothing, as I have both distorted and lost ring dings/cotter rings on stays, once while racing. I'm a fanatic about taping them, same with pins if possible. As someone hoping to sail solo around the lower part of the world my concern would be jettissing a downed mast quickly which suggests small bend, but would also increase the chance of a collapse in the first place. Typically I thought the idea was to cut the wire and usually sail with tools for this purpose. Great video got me thinking, got me laughing.
In high snag areas, I use seizing wire instead of cotter pins. It’s smooth and gets the job done!
When on my apprenticeship my journeyman tolled me that there was a special place in Hell for a man that bent both legs of a cotter pin. We were working 1/4" steel pin. To remove a pin like the one you have with both legs rolled back is a real tough job. So just bend one.
Interesting angle, however
1. There is a special tool to lock secure the pin, and they are fabricated for one time use.
2. The property of the pins are such that actually before using they should be heated up to 200° C . Which will alline the molecules of the pins.
3. this information is from Vitters one of the big ship yards Netherlands.
4. Same kind of process you find in Aerospace and Automotive industry.
Thank you for that information, I will look into Vitters. I did not know of them :)
I tried to reuse a cotter pin, it broke on the THIRD time while removing it ~ I think there are more variables involved to simply conclude that the 487 times in your test has any relevance to real world applications... I would HIGHLY suggest using a new one EVERY TIME unless it's on a one time use project/disposable item.
Good info, less bend when protection and interference is not critical. Get the ends out of the way when they are potential snags. YO... big dang hoo in nice background picture (data?) great tunes, thanks
In my humble opinion - only if you reuse the split pins would it be an issue with work hardening. Fold them over but never reuse a cheap it's a one use item!
For some reason and in certain instances prefer to change cutter more frequently than risk damaging a sail because it's sliding and catching on a 15 deg cotter.....my two cents worth.
I think your theory is wrong. The metal is stressed more yes, but the work hardening from bending it further makes it hold in place. The Cotter pin does not see those loads when installed. The real test is how hard it is to pull out of the hole and what pressure it would take to shear it.
The slightly bent Cotter pin could be potentially knocked out if a line or something were to strike it just right.
Problem is the legs are way more likely to get caught on things that might stress those legs if they are sticking out if they are bent out of the way and back they are bent ONCE and very unlikely anything will bend it at all until you go to remove that cotter pin and then you use a new one when you reinstall. Also it’s not JUST how many times you bend the leg but how many times in a SHORT period of time. HEAT is generated when metal is repeatedly flexed the frequency of that bending had far more to do with fatigue. Bend it faster it will fail in less bends BUT each bend if it is a further Bend is in the bending process longer so it breaks in fewer bends. But it’s is still the rearranging of molecules and the heat that creates that causes the failure. Bending a cotter pin once so the legs won’t get caught and possibly unbend or push the pin out is by far the safer bend. And Yes the Bend caused some fatigue BUT not enough to cause failure and the legs being less likely to get caught far out ways the number of times you can bend it before it fails as your never supposed to bend it again without replacing it.
It’s all a compromise.
Interesting test, but I think it can be expanded on. First off; automotive uses may not be as applicable to rigging, less vibration ( in my opinion). I think what last of the comments are referring to are the pins coming out. Extra security. I feel the next step is friction. Understanding that the cotter pins are not under any load, but falling out being the issue. Does the weakened pin ( according to your test) pull out with less force than the pin bent at 15 degrees?
Good stuff. Thank you. It is just what I wanted to know.
Great info and important tips about rig maintenance. keep up the great work!
Do read the rest of the comments, though. Almost all of us disagree with Herby.. and for very good reasons.
JAFO understood, we have our own reservations about the information but nonetheless it’s great that someone out there is making videos like this versus the same ol’ T&A videos shoved in our faces. We love the Nitty gritty technical and DIY videos. Cheers!
@@sailingavocet - On that, I couldn't agree more..
great video but unfortunately your test was irrelevant to the life of a cotter pin, it may have been fun and the maths may have been fun but the fact remains that the cotter pin is a single use item, so the only bending cycles it receives after installation is via snagging on things under load. If you wrap the legs right around and tuck the ends as close to the head as possible the chances of snagging are almost zero, not true with your 15 degrees, as for using up its life on installation the pin is designed to be installed any work hardening occurring on installation has been taken into account in it's design. So in short I believe you are giving poor advise with the 15 degree thing, and as for it being a little harder most things done correctly are a little harder.
I love your perseverance, great video! I looked this up for putting on dirt bike foot pegs, and ended up wrapping them. I did notice stainless was much harder to bend compared to regular steel... Were your tests stainless?
Yes, 316 stainless steel pins
The probability of a 'bend cycle' taking place is much higher if the pin is mostly open and repeatedly hits something or the other. If its bent out of the way, yes the initial fatigue is higher but in the daily usage no more 'bend cycles' should take place. isn't it?
Yes, Math is fun. However, you have made some base assumptions that I think are false. You are assuming that each bend puts in the same amount of stress. However I'm thinking that each bend makes the material less ductile and thus each successive bend puts in more stress than the previous one. That means it is not a straight line and the first bend puts in MUCH less stress than the last. Don't know if that would result in a log scale or not but it would make things a lot different.
Also, we are looking at one of the "pins" of the cotter pin failing. Which solution would be best if one does fail? I'm thinking the 15 degree bend, with only 1 pin, would pull through pretty easily while the wrap around wouldn't be able to pull through.
And, then there's how you bend it. The sharper the angle of the actual start of the bend could make a big difference as well. Using heavy pliers and making that a sharp 90 degree bend and then bending the rest of the pin around the clevis would be worse then doing a more gentle rounded bend!
Oh, and there is the quality of the cotter pin. You can purchase different quality ones.
Finally, another option I've seen is to use pliers, grab the longer pin and and bend it "around" with the pliers, leave the other one alone!
Anyway, thanks for making me think!
So its weaker but if the other one can be knocked through how much easier? The risk would be which is going to fail more the knock through or the shorter stress life. Kind of missing the other half of the test. also if been banged how likly is it to bend back that 15 degrees. I would imagine the little bent one would be easier to bend back and like you said they turn around in the pin... Its almost like you focused on only the failure method How much force was required to bend back the slightly spread cotter.
1. Always use a new pin (unless temporary until you can replace with new , emergency)
2. Bend both, opposite directions around.
3. Clip excess.
Done
Shortcuts can kill someone.
That is fine advice in the correct application, but a sailboat is not the correct application to bend the legs all the way around.
A note to anyone watching this and wondering about real life consequences of installing a cotter pin as prescribed in the video, please see @RiggingDoctor video posted on August 29, 2021 where the boom detached during their Atlantic crossing because the cotter pin fell out and then the clevis pin fell out on the gooseneck. To quote Joe Friday “just the facts ma’am”
The boom did come detached but that was because we didn’t lower our trysail all the way. Lesson learned!
Since the legs were not work hardened, nothing broke and we were able to simply reassemble everything as all the parts remained on deck. Had the legs been bent all the way around, that pressure could have broken a work hardened leg off and the same would have resulted but we wouldn’t have been able to reassemble the pieces because the cotter pin would be broken. “Just the facts ma’am”
The lesson is that cotter pins should not have things pushing on them and if you do, bad things can happen.
this is why i use wrap pins with velcro......never bend cotter pins and for spreaders, split rings...never cotter pins
I am sorry to say this is a situation I have been thinking about many times over my life. Work hardening requires repeated flexing as you showed. One bend does not ¨work harden"a metal. However, how do you secure the 15 degree bent pin so as not to catch on sheets and sails and skin to prevent damage? I used to bend 15 degrees and then slide a plastic turnbuckle cover over it with the cotter pin being the same length approx. as the inside diameter of the tube of the cover over it. Nothing can stress it then and nothing can get hung up. Just lift up the cover and you can pull the pin easily, insert a new pin and drop the cover, done. I got tired of having to hold the covers up when retuning over the years so I switched to split rings. However, while they do not catch on skin, i have experienced rings that have opened from getting caught on sheets and had to be replaced. Dont think I ever had one completely come out but it was such a frequent occurance that I have ceased using them and returned to the sleeved method. In that most of my boats have been deck stepped masts I think its important to be able jetison the mast quickly if it comes down to get it away from the hull. Quickly is impossible with fully bent cotter pins while it is with 15 degree bent pins. 71 years on the water I have seen a lot of things but to see half a dozen split rings fail in these applications is a lot more than I am willing to accept. The experiences here witness that 15 degree is reliable as are fully wrapped pins. One way leaves an injury and damage risk to other components. That makes it a simple choice to me.
Never leave straight, always fit new and bend tight as possible to reduce snagging. Tape if possible to reduce snagging further......don't use the key ring type.
Bending tight doesn't just reduce snagging. It prevents the pin from moving around in the hole.
@@Garryck-1 if done correctly it both reduces snagging because the ends are tucked in under the head and reduces movement. also if snagging is a probable outcome just round the ends with some paper or a smooth file
i also dont think your taking int account the radius. i think folding them back on themselves is cleaner. and for a bazzilion cycle they will hold up until my next trip up the mast. but im on a small boat witha simple rig
Work hardening your test. Each time you said was one is two. Time 1st bend is not work hardening the pin. Repeated bending does work harden steel yes. If you look at the engineering studys done at the Edison institute on work hardening of fasteners and the transverse strength. If you worked on my plane or boat and did that to save time. You would have plenty of time to do what ever you want your fired.
Yeah…I have to go with bending both back. That one slightly bent leg gets snagged or breaks it’s over. They would twice as unlikely if they’re both bent.
The thing is, they shouldn’t be getting snagged. They do get smacked around a lot though and when they are bent far over, they are more likely to break off, leading to them falling out and it being all over.
@@RiggingDoctor , my point being that if only one is bent and that breaks off, the pin is free to slide out. If two are bent and one breaks off, one might hold the pin in place until the next inspection. My logic could be wrong, and I would be cautious in arguing the point with a rigger who does this for a living. JMHO.
What about using splint rings?
I'll keep bending around...but trimming them shorter first.
Who is cycling the legs of these pins back and forth? I might put a pin back where I got it from in a pinch, and if it looks in really good condition.
This video was to exemplify why it is important to follow the instructions of mast manufacturers who want the pins bent 15° instead of wrapped all the way around like people insist on doing.
The issue is the legs are significantly weakened by the one drastic bend and are at higher risk of breaking when repeatedly struck by halyards and other running rigging.
In American aviation you bend one down the pin / bolt and the other over the top. Safe, smooth, but not quick to remove.
I just cant believe theres 32min video about how you set a cotter pin.
It's the gremlins who turn them upside down :-)
Well, you do mention fatique. AFAIK, fatique comes from repeated bending - as in thousands or million times of repeated bending. Not from once bending a pin around. Please hold that in mind.
And put in a fresh pin every time you need to assemble the things.
And consider what the pros are writing.
CAN YOU EMPLOY OTHER DEVICES TO ACT AS "PREVENTERS" ? DESIGN WHAT WORKS OUTSIDE THE BOX ?
Stop. 32 minutes for a cotter pin video? So which is it? All the way around or 15 degrees?
15* is all you need.
The video was going to be really short, but then I thought “someone’s going to complain about how the test was carried out” if they can’t see it, so I included the test. The “all the way” broke in a few bends while the 15* took FOREVER to break!
@@RiggingDoctor thank you!! I actually went ahead with 15. You’re probably annoyed at answering all the “long video” gripes so I appreciate the patience.
I am missing something here, what is the conclusion … bend slightly, or bend all the way back ?
I bend mine 15° and this video is why. In areas where snagging is an issue, I use a different method that way the legs don’t stick out and snag on things.
Never mind just cease then with monel wire its way more eliable!
Monel wire is the best! Where do you buy yours? I haven’t been able to find any in years
I bought some reels in a sale about 15 years ago and a reel lasts ages! I just checked and it is easily available in the US as fishing supplies, in large reels to (I am in Canada). The use it for down-rigger weights in deep water trolling @@RiggingDoctor
Thank you, not I know where to look!
Have you ever heard Tuck Cotter Pin Pliers?
Bent around the pin is not 90*. It's an arc. Definitely tighter than 15*.
Where it exists the hole is 90°, then the leg arcs around the clevis pin.
i think bend back and for heats the metal that cause the break !!!
Friend: Hey Ben what did you do last night? Ben: Oh I watched Herbie bend cotter pins until they broke while counting how many times it took them to break. Friend: Ben you need to get a life! AND so should Herbie!
The best part was this was filmed at 1am! Why was I still awake at 1am?!
hahaha hahahahaha i love your videos but this one was wild HAHAHAH i watched it tho!
I dare you to wrap a cotter pin with tape that is not wrapped around the clevis. And if you don't wrap it with tape have plenty of band aids and sail tape on board!
That is how I do them up the mast, 15* bend and no tape. If placed properly, no issues will result. If they are in a “high snag area” I use cotter rings instead.
On the deck I use wire to retain, restrain, and lay flush.
Foremost THEY ARE SPLIT PINS and NOT cotter pins and they are not the correct pins for that purpose. Split pins should have one leg longer than the other, be of the correct diameter to fit the hole and not protrude through more than 1 cm or 1/2". Then the shorter leg is lifted enough to stop the pin from falling out of the hole, around 30-45 degrees and that is all that is required. No bending the pins double or wrapped around nuts.
What you are describing is a cotter pin. In North America, that type of pin is called a Split Pin and a Cotter Pin. Two names for the same thing.
@Rigging Doctor No what I am describing is a SPLIT PIN, cotter pins hold pedals to bicycles and have a thread and nut on one end and a tapered surface. They are different things.
Herbie, you have no idea. Cotter pins? How about lockwire inside a turbojet engine? Not for the faint of heart: ruclips.net/video/hcxHQXYU-Os/видео.html
That was deep in there!
@@RiggingDoctor Thanks for the reply. Somebody designed it to be that way. Other people get to suffer forever.
Please... A cotter pin is to be used one time not to be bent repeatedly 50 times...
I can think of no use of a cotter pin where it would even accidentally be bent 50 times...
But one hit on the end of a spread cotter pin can drive it out of the hole it's in, which I've done with a hammer, no breaking necessary...
Whereas a bent cotter pin has to be unbent before it can be removed...
Which is kind of the whole point of a cotter pin... to remain where it was placed until forcibly removed...
They get hit thousands of times by halyards which will break the legs. If they are bent all the way over they are going to break off sooner than ones bent only 15°.
They are all one time use, but we want it to still be in the mast when we go up there to take it out!
just bend it at 45 and call it a day, this is OCD at it's finest but good to know.
I don't see my response from when you posted 1st time.
That is strange! I don’t see it caught in any of the filters either :(
I went into this whole thing about NAVY regulations building a Torpedo and how to bend the cutter pins. When your dealing with any weapons manual, be it ashore or afloat, all rules and regs safety precautions and warnings are there due to someone dying or losing a body part, finger, hand, eye and so on. And I knew you would say were talking about sailing here. And I put a LOL!!! Anyway, it's lost in space. I wrote it before you left the states. Crazy!
Horses for courses. This is for up the mast but on the propeller shaft: bent all the way around!
Or on a fixed wing set up,, helo set up, as a Asrock,, out a torpedo tube above or below the water line, or really big one........inside of it. I built them you see.
And I told you you were going to say it is not comparable, in some way. Because you already had done it to someone else. But I still can't find it. I'll shoot you a message if I ever do! Lol! Hope you guys are having a great lunch or snack!🍻🍨🍦
I’m sorry, but, I have never seen a broken cotter pin. Have you tried to break one? C’mon. Bend it and forget it. Why be worrying if you have it bent enough to stay in. And if bending them the whole entire way until they wrap around the pin, or removing them is too time consuming that it’s causing overtime and $$, you need to find another career because, I guarantee you have bigger problems, and you are charging way too much in $$ or time to do the work. I a. Terribly sorry for the run-on sentence.
I did try to break them! 15 degrees felt like forever and 90 went really quick.
In practice, I have come across missing pins and pins with one leg in them.
I know up the mast it’s 15* but on the same boat on the prop it’s wrapped around. Different rules for different applications.
I shall offer an apology, but not ask for forgiveness in my rudeness, as I do not deserve it. I’m sorry, it’s been quite a week for me. But in the grand scheme of things, very trivial in comparison. Anyway, whether agree or disagree, I can respect everyone’s experiences and opinions. As far as the prop application, my suspicions are the potential to exposure of high vibration, although the wind can do the same. So, go figure.
As a former aircraft tech. Cotter pins are used only once!
They should be bent properly.
Yes, they can be a pain. But they are essential for keep your riggning to stay up!
Tape them to protect sails, clothes ect..
This is a non issue, as they are very cheap!
Clickbait ranting...
You have done the general public a disservice. Your non-scientific reasoning is flawed and unsafe. To use the fatigue method as reason for saying one method is safer than an another is like saying all metal objects that are bent over 30 degrees is weaker and therefore should not be used. Of course that is not true. Yes, there are times in certain situations where you may not want to full wrap a cotter pin, but those are specific individual situations and NOT to be use in general installations. That includes sail boat rigging. Cotter pins are by design meant to be bent. The fact they are stressed is taken into account by design. They know this and that is part of why they are a one time use only item. You come off as if the engineers who have spent literally decades of research and design of cotter pins have not done this testing. They have... as an experimental flight test mechanic myself, I know they have because I have done it... A LOT. What you did here today is my job, to run testing like this and find out if those designs are good or bad. I can say that NO, your methods of testing and reasoning are incorrect and dangerous. Trust in the aviation methods... as they have all been written in blood. Literally. Everything in the aviation maintenance methods regulations are there because someone has died because of it.
I made this video because of the stark number of comments I got on a previous video about the cotter pin legs. In rigging books, it specifically says that up on a mast they are only to be bent 15*. This was a good way to visually represent that.
Up the mast is different from on an airplane or any other part of the boat for that matter. You figure the propeller on a boat will have a cotter pin in the end of the shaft bent all the way around the shaft tip!
Sorry for offending you with this video. Bending the pins the aircraft way is correct to do on aircraft, but not in spars. I was trying to get that point across. Do you have any suggestions for a better way to visually represent this?
Not offended at all. Just worried someone might see this and do something that may compromise their rigging. It's just the method used to come to the conclusion. You are actually on the right track! Fatigue is one of the major reasons you only use a pin once. Instead of asking which method is safer ask what are the conditions the pins is being used? Also how and why a pin might fail in that circumstance. I've seen meny broken cotton pins over the years and in the majority of those cases the pin was either the wrong material or re-bent in some manner. Thus it's not the final method they end up with that is dangerous, rather the method to which it was installed. If you bend it once, it's done. You bend it TWICE you have just compromised the strength of the pin. Whether you bend it 40 times or 400 times is mute. Now if that pin is only bent 15* what do you think the odds are that someone is going to just push that baby right back in the hole instead of replacing it? What I've seen, it goes right back in the hole and re-bent! Now you're set up for failure. If the pin is totally wrapped around chances are you will not be able to reuse that pin even if you wanted to. The biggest thing to stress here is never re-bend a cotter pin in a safety related installation. On the wrong material side, not all cotton pins are the same. To make it even worse is that the quality of the material is very different from where they come from. Knowing not only that you have the correct type of pin, but also if it will be made of a high quality material. Your normal cotton pins from your local auto parts store are horrible! They will rust out sooner than later. Make sure you buy the right pin for the installation and condition's it will be installed and of a high enough of quality.
@@RiggingDoctor - Just because the rigging books say it, doesn't necessarily make it so, IMO. Wouldn't be the first time something has been handed down as gospel from one generation to the next, and never been questioned, simply because it was "accepted wisdom" (no pun intended), but later found to be incorrect, when someone actually tested it out.
phantumdrummer p
@@phantumdrummer So true mention the human factor, .."it goes right back in the hole and re-bent!". Another real life concern would be the steel quality of these. The real country-of-origin and original manufacture of parts can be really hard to figure out. It would be interesting to see a "relevant" scientific tests of common pins done!
I just clicked to see how someone could talk 32 minutes about bending a cotter pin. Thank God you don't teach safety courses at my job...
I just figured if I was thorough it would put an end to the constant bickering about what to do with cotter pins.
@@RiggingDoctor I'm just giving you a hard time. Thanks for making the video
Interesting
👍
his experiment shows the bending of a cotter pin at a single point on the pin at either 15 degrees or 90 degrees. but what if the bend is spread over a longer length of the pin. instead of bending the pin 90 degrees at a single point, the 90 degree bend is spread out over several millimeters of the length of the cotter pin. would't that reduce the point stress on the pin?
When you wrap it all the way around evenly, the base of the pin still makes a sharp turn.
This is wrong... Bend the cotter pin all the way around, both sides. If one side fails, then the other side will keep it from falling out and keep your mast from falling down. Leaving them unbent on one side and bent a few degrees is not the safest solution. There should be no additional forces applied to the cotter or split pin once cold formed into the fully bent position, and doing both sides is what you want. You want those ends out of the way from getting snagged where they can bend back. You want the cotter pin to be free floating in the hole also. And you don't want the ends out where they can get snagged.
Jfc 32 minutes? What’s the answer
15° is the correct way to do it
I love your channel but I am sorry buddy. You got this one wrong. Rolling the cotter locks it in place and does not allow rotation or chatter. As the locked in cotters only load is in shear there is less movement of said cotter pin and thus less chance of rub wear on the cotter from the clevis or castle nut. Not to mention that a cotter pin is ROLLED. They are designed to take the metal stretch and ARE A ONE TIME use item.... I can not emphasize enough NEVER USE THEM TWICE!
Nope! Sorry Bro.
8x8
64?
@@RiggingDoctor u remember me Terrell
interesting but way too long for the information provided.
I'm really sorry I had to unsubscribe, but your questions completely blocked my access to RUclips and it's the only way I could find to get past them. Definitely a RUclips bug, but it drove me away.
Thanks for letting me know. Hopefully the bug will get fixed and all will be right again :)
Many mistakes on this video - for one, your test introduced heat from bending the pin leg back and forth full angle multiple times, which isn't representative of the real mechanical stress such a pin would experience (if anything - such repeated bending is more likely to occur if you leave the tails long AND not bent around the clevis pin). Second - you didn't consider the speed of turning the pin tails around, which also would have significant impact on the heating and consequently - strength of the metal - doing it slowly allows the metal to bend with less stress (work hardening) and heat than of you do it fast. Another factor is how you bend the tail - I use needle nose pliers with round jaws, and wrap the tail around slowly - that way I avoid creating a sharp angle in the tail, avoid heating it, and as long as I don't try to cheap out by reusing what is only meant to be used once - never had one break. You're comparing one method allowing for 487 or so cycles while the other allows for only 44, for a pin that is only intended to have one cycle before you replace it with a new one - not really relevant...
One last point against leaving the tails straight instead of wrapping them around the clevis pin is that wrapping them around usually puts them neatly inside the bottlescrew, whereas leaving them straight like you showed is almost always going to give the sails and/sheets and halyards something to rub against or get cut by and from that - rip.
A few points that are often overlooked on sailboats: 1. Selden, a very reputable mast company, says to bend the legs 20° and to leave the legs straight out. Why?
The main reason is that this is a sailboat and not an airplane. On airplanes, the rule is to bend them all the way around. On sailboats, the rule is to leave the legs straight.
2. The bottle screws have the cotter pin for a few reasons, one is to prevent the bottle screw from twisting out of the turnbuckle and causing the mast to fall down. The cotter pin acts as a “last safety” to keep it from coming out at the end. The other reason for the cotter pin is to prevent the bottle screw from turning at all as any turn would lead to the rigging becoming out of tune. If you bend it over nicely, the turnbuckle can spin over it and you lose the ability to keep the tune of your rig. If the legs are straight, the body can’t spin over it and the rig tune is preserved.
As for sails rigging, the legs are to be wrapped in a fabric tape to protect the sails. Selden in their manual says to do this to prevent damage to the sails as this is the obvious problem with them sticking out.
So, you can do it the right way or you can do it the wrong way. It’s your boat, so I don’t really care how you do it. I just made this video to show you the right way to do it. The fact that you have never had a leg break is great, but I see a ton of pins bent all the way around with only one leg as the other one broke off. I also see a bunch without a pin in it probably because it fell off when the legs broke off.
Good luck and keep a close eye on the pins to replace them when they break and fall out.
You can't bend the legs of a cotter pin because they are not split, these are SPLIT PINS, not cotter pins. Learn the difference
Cotter pin and split pin are both the same thing. Google “cotter pin” and see!
Cotter pins are cheap....bend one leg, or both, replace often...problem solved.
I subscribed to this channel today and I'm now seriously contemplating unsubscribing after watching this video...
I would suggest giving the other videos a looksy. This one was just to prove a point. I only included the insanely long test because I knew people would question the drastic difference in the results. I put it at the end so that no one would need to sit through it, pretty much included as an annotation at the back of a book.
The only thing more painful than watching me do the test was my arm from actually doing the test!
i dont belive you
That’s why I showed the actual test
Some of your most ridiculous work. Others have covered its ridiculousness in the comments, suffice to say, just because you have a hypothesis doesn’t make it so.
People should really read the instructions from spar manufacturers. Selden specifically says 10° per leg, not to bend it all the way around.
The pins I find with one leg always have the other leg bent all the way around. One can assume the missing leg was also over bent. Take a work hardened metal and beat it with a halyard forever and the little leg will break off. The missing pins are harder to say how they were, but they tend to be on boats where all the pins are bent all the way around.
You do you on your own boat and ignore the correct way of doing things. This was just a fun little demonstration to showcase the right way to bend a cotter pin on a sailboat (not for aviation usage, they bend the whole way around but also don’t have halyards to worry about).
@@RiggingDoctor the point, covered elsewhere in the comments, is that once bent into position, they don't cycle, work harden any more than the first set.
So the cycles of use to failure demonstration has nothing to do with the application.
Ridiculous test.
Yes it was, but people don’t seem to follow the instructions from the spar manufacturers and bend the legs all the way around. This video is to show them why they should only bend them 15°
@@RiggingDoctor when you only bend 15° are like needles sticking out hurting people.
You should only bend those one time and not 40 or 400 times.
Once placed and removed the pin is to be renewed.