WORLD RUGBY HATE SCRUMS | Law Changes Are In
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- World Rugby doing World Rugby things again. This time removing the ability for teams to call for a scrum from a free kick, effective from July 1st. What do you think? Will it help grow the game by creating a more entertaining spectacle...or is it messing with what makes rugby unique and special?!
The scrums in the WC were some of the most entertaining and talked about plays. World Rugby continues to drive rugby towards a place where all the different facets that makes rugby interesting and entertaining are no longer considered as part of the proposed law changes. World Rugby is a disgrace…..
Bingo. Scrums are an awesome spectacle
I agree. It is an integral part of the game and was a key part of the drama and tension in the RWC play-offs. If you feel they are taking too much time speed up how long it takes to set them and reset them (the same for line outs where teams take forever to get to the lineout).
Even sawomen can scrum
Agreed 👍🏼
@@EggchasersRugbyAbsolutely
I was a overweight kid on primary school and really loved rugby…so like every big boned kid😅😅…playing prop was my destiny…hence my weight and size was needed in the scrum and was my contribution towards the team…I couldn’t run around the field like the other kids..but when it was scrum time..I knew it was time to jog to the spot and show my worth…rugby a sport for all shapes and sizes😢😢
I have the exact same story too. It is what made me fall in love with the game.
Yet world rugby claim that they are changing rules so that more kids can find the game safe and wanna participate. It's a coin toss for me. Other loose and others gain. In this case, it's going to be the heavier built kids who are going to feel less important in the game. Talk of double standards
You saying what I was thinking the other day; Rugby literally is the only sports-code where they tell fat people, "We appreciate your shape and size. It is Beautiful "
The scrum plays a HUGE role in ensuring the diverse physical requirements a team has to address. Rugby needs mismatches, or we get a load of mesomorphic clones like League. Hope this phase is short-lived.
Totally agree
Excellent point.
Mesomorphic clones! Great use of an old school sports science term.
There should always be room for the endos and ectos.
Excellent point!
Tim I live in the USA. Whenever I show my American friends a rugby match the thing they are most intrigued by is the scrum and the lineout. There is nothing like it in any other sport. I don’t understand why we are self destructing like this.
Two main problems ... 1) World Rugby is too full of individuals with personal and national agendas who are incapable of putting on a neutral 'what's best for the game' hat, and 2) the current standard of referee / assistant referee / TMO skills is the worst I've ever seen it in the game, especially in the northern hemisphere, yet the same people at World Rugby are pushing them as test match officials over far better quality officials from NZ in particular.
@@LittleBigMediaCo Your points are spot on. I've played and watched the game for 40 years. The current 'confusion' in the ref, assistants and TMO's is terrible and in my view partially due to ever changing laws.
@@mikeniemand9368 It's very frustrating to watch.
And this 'neutral ref' system in competitions like URC is even more of a joke. Having a Welsh ref for a match involving Scotland (for example) is the equivalent of having a URC match involving the Stormers ref'ed by a guy from Bloemfontein and calling him 'neutral'.
As Tim correctly pointed out, there are too many rules in rugby already. At any and every given ruck there are probably 5+ events that could be penalized under current rules ... AND we 4+ officials trying to ref by committee, commentary teams who are home biased and often not suitably up to speed on the rules, local TV broadcasters who either show or block replays at the own volition (or at the demand of the home crowd) ... it's a complete mess designed to create bad vibes.
Better quality Officials from NZ - lol!!
@@allanokeeffe9499 Hello Ben's dad.
The only changes we need in rugby is changing the knobheads from World Rugby that keep changing the laws.
Hear...! Hear...!!
So American here, trying to grasp the sport because it's fun to watch, especially when your watching the elite teams out there, makes it really hard when rules are changing often, and the fabric of the game is being taken away like scrums. Was watching England's Scrum coach just two days ago talk about how he coaches it, and how it can be effective, and things to avoid, and boom that is gone... I will never move away from American Football, that is my sport, and I love it, but I have time in the day to watch another contact sport because I am not a basketball fan, and Soccer is corrupt, so Rugby was going to be my third sport besides King sport American Football, and calming relaxing baseball... Greetings from Miami, great videos are made here Eggchasers Rugby! 👏🏻💪🏻
I hope you enjoyed having NFL as your favourite sport. Once the rugby bug bites, it's all you'll watch, and everything else becomes meaningless. Ask my wife, wherever she is.
100% agree with all points. Especially the point of rugby being for all shapes and sizes. This isn't rugby league!
Amen!
Exactly!
and this is why union will always be the inferior rugby
League truly sucks, and is only popular in a few places.
@@pooddly9637correct . The shock clock , the 50/20 ( really it’s the 40/20 ) , drop outs underneath the sticks .
An ex Wigan RL player managing the rah rah lions , it’s endless .
Rugby League the sport that’s lived in every rah rahs head since 1895.
The French RFU that confiscated the French Rugby league’s assets in the 2WW and also got into bed with the Vichy Nazi sympathising government.
Wasps , Worcester, London Irish , Jersey Reds .
The next to go will be Newcastle Falcons .
Amazing really , considering Yawnion has had the full weight of the media and the establishment behind it since ‘The Split ‘.
As an American having lived in Australia for over 30 years and have come to thoroughly enjoy just about every sport played in the country, including Union, the scrum for me is an ultimate test of strength, power, and will between two opposing teams. .
Well put
Go Bokke go!!!
We will still win no matter what they do.
The Brits don't know how lo lose.
100% agree. People give winging John Kerwin too much airtime
Since Eggchasers, Squidge and Big Jim I’ve stopped watching rugby shows on TV. Waste of time!
Exactly 💯
John Kirwan is a 🤡
@@danemyburgh What's your contribution to world rugby been?
@@danemyburgh You're being insulting to clowns.
Spot on again. Just imagine the following: Free kick, opposition 10 meters away, scrum 'formation' to the left/right, scrumhalf tap and pass to the hooker; now 8 players at full speed towards the opposition; pulled down; penalty closer to the posts. More risk, same result. WR underestimates innovation in rugby
Lol I think you just found a solution to this already 😂😂😂😂
Spot on Mate. WR is clueless on the evolution of the game:(
Imagine if South Afrixa goes on and wins the next world cup with the new law changes, that world rugby boardroom would go straight into a mild coma
😅😅😅
Can't see it happening with their record in Australia it's pretty piss poor really. Something about that country wilts the Boks, semis at the most I reckon.
@@MrBannajo ull be surprised, no one saw 2019 coming too, but anyway it would be great for South Africa but more of an F you to world rugby
@lwandamfenqe2056 that's true lol. I just think that if they try to play a faster game it could fall into the hands of other teams like Ireland, France and the ABs and couple that with their record in Oz it could be a bridge to far.
Oh that would be so funny😂
"Episode 4 of Chasing the Sun is a Love Letter to Scrums." 😂
"Dr Erasmus" saying "we know what they don"t know" explains everything.
Indeed we do! 😂
Tim, The truth is, World Rugby needs some fresh faces. people who are more connected to the game. I wonder if a petition for a change on senior leadership of world rugby would get support? We need to save our game! LONG LIVE THE SCRUM!
The “Board” is controlled by old blokes with a negative attitude. The underlying fact is to neutralise Springbok Rugby!
agree get rid of these old faces of the board yeah the old boys club need to get them off the board or vote them maroons off of world rugby there needs to be new leadership in world rugby and leave the bloody laws alone world rugby for good sakes
Put dr Rassie on the board! 🤣🤣
Exactly Right 💯
But not yet, please! We need to win again in 2027 first...
"oh it's a mascot who's just wandered on the pitch. Wait no, it's faf de klerk" 😂
🤣🤣🤣 I cracked 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm not too worried, South Africa has been the front runners in adapting to new rugby laws
Absolutely - Rassie has this figured out already Bud.
Haha...Rassie's gonna Rassie
“He’s in your head, in your head…” 🇿🇦💪🏾. WR et al can try, 3xPete here we come 😊.
SA isn't always the frontrunners and sometimes take a bit longer to adapt to new interpretations, however, once they do they become a rolling maul.
No Tim, they don't hate scrums! They hate the Boks! Don't worry though Rassie will figure out a way to turn the tables on WR.
Agree that is why Jaco Peyper is part of coaching team.Rassie and Co saw this coming.
How? With Tony Brown as a backs coachs, who hasn't done anything notable since he's been coaching?
Why do you think WR hates the South Africa anymore than any other countries ? Hasn't stopped Boks success in RWCs?
Changing scrum laws doesn't only effect South Africa. Any team that plays off their set piece is effected .
Willemse's call in his 25 was bold, most talked about and very high risk.
Hopefully you can watch Chasing the sun 2. It was planned. No risk involved.
I never have seen it done, now that the springboks found in the law they can use to there advantage, and was done only once, maybe in history, it's been outlawed.
You need to be brave to do this. And you still need to run or kick the ball back so I can't see the logic in changing this law.
..and why wouldnt WR want these moments in its sport - baffles me that they dont want moments like these
@@sjmac1518 This is a way of keeping the posession and have a scrum where you can attack from (instead of counter-attacking which may not be a good option at the time). Think the scenario where you are behind and time is up, now you have the possession and can launch a final attack from a set phase or do like the Boks and overpower the opposition to get a penalty. Taking this attacking option away is ridiculous.
Should just go back to 80's 90's rules. I remember watching the curry cup in south africa as a young man before we were allowed back on to the big stage and holy shit that was rugby !
Yep, miss old school rugby.... from New Zealand
.
My money is on Rassie being way ahead of this...
He got a PLAN
Bending it to how he wants it
True Story 💯
Rugby will be less of a spectacle if you cannot field and wield formidable packs that sap the lifeblood out of the less schooled. Its Just League with a scrum or 2, whats the point?
He is going to out smart them again 😂😂😂
As a South African, I have to say that it's painful that we are always singled out for the world's hatred.
This will not be the first time that laws are changed to nullify what the Springboks do ... but it better not be the last time either ... because let me tell you what ...
If they leave Rassie alone for long enough, he will find a way within the new laws. He is an innovator ... and there is nothing they can do about that.
Rassie will find a way.
Until they ban him.
I totally agree with you! Who ever is high up in WR needs to be fired. How many laws have they changed since lions series due to the Springboks? Its more of a hate towards the saffas and their powerful forwards. Its also clear there are no South Africans in WR with any say in their decision making. Pathetic! I also see they are trying to lower the number substitutions!! Ridiculous!
You weren't complaining when they changed the laws to slow the game down after the ABs won in 2011 and 2015.
Salute- you do rugby a great service with your channel- your love of the game shines through everything!!
Agree with every word. Re-sets need to be quicker. Refs need to be more decisive and penalise or simply allow the ball to be played if front rows aren't playing ball.
Agree...that's where focus should be
There are times I wish RUclips gave you 1,000 upvotes a year, so in instances like this, I could assign all of them to this video!
Best rugby channel on RUclips without a doubt
You are officially a South African rugby supporter now - you are just as conspiracy prone as we are!! Welcome!!
The truth isn't a conspiracy theory though ;)
Congrats on your son's team win. I have immense respect for your investment in the game.
Appreciate you watching
I agree that this isn't the solution, but it is frustrating that the scrum is essentially the only part of the game where you can win a penalty for just being better than the opposition. The problem goes all the way back to not policing the feed, which meant the only way you could challenge for a ball was to do it by collapsing the scrum and hope for a penalty.
Completely agree with Rob Baxter. It's much easier to work out negative strategies than positive ones,so every law change tightens things up. If WR left it alone for a bit, coaches would innovate with positive solutions and let the game develop.
When the giants of the game of my youth were Colin Meads (102 kg), Frik du Preez (106kg) and Willie John (a whole 110 kg), scrums were self regulating (but would have led to charges of assault every 3 minutes under today's laws). I look at Steve Thompson (a generation and a half later), a hooker 8kg heavier than the giant McBride, and send my sympathy and understand why world rugby needs to protect scrummagers.
Scrums need to be faster. Scrums should tire out forwards to create space. I rejoice that we no longer have scrums from handling errors every 20 seconds.
How about:
Straight feeds
Engagement with no ref interference (quickly).
Rolling into scrums without the "crouch bind engage" nonsense led to fewer confrontational hits.
Problem solved 😅
Bill bloody Beaumont has a very short memory. If we go back to England when they won the World Cup with players like Martin Johnson, Lawrence De Lalio ( spelling) had the most feared pack in world rugby. With Johnny Wilkinson conducting play behind the pack. Sir Clive Woodward was hailed as the greatest coach of his time. They won with a forward dominated game and a great defensive strategy. It was the birth of the outside in defensive pattern that is still evident in many sides today. No one called it boring rugby. No one said there were too many scrums and England were the number one side in the world. Now contrast that with Rasie Erasmus and the Springbok team who play a very similar game all be it with some tweaks. He is not acknowledged as a great coach nor is the team hailed a a great team. Instead the winging Gatlin and Foster have got everything they have asked for as if they have the only insight on how the game should be played. You are 100% correct when you say they should go and play and or administrate rugby league stop wrecking the greatest game ever. We don’t need you now go away. Please
It has taken World Rugby three+ WC cycles to try and create an environment where ‘’2nd tier’’ teams like Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Portugal, play against top competition, and they, World Rugby, are still fluffing about. (If you are serious about growing the game, fund these teams and get them playing regularly against the top teams. Look what Fiji were able to do at the last World Cup without even a fraction of the resources of France or England, and what Samoa have done at previous World Cups. Imagine what they could do with the right support) But World Rugby is able to change the scrum laws within months. Appears more like protecting certain teams - keep potential opposition disadvantaged/weak and take other teams strengths away, all to suit our boys. Billy Beaumont, time to do the right thing for the game as a whole. Let’s make some positive change for those that have a real passion for the game and need support.
Imagine what Fiji, Samoa and Tonga could achieve if they can get an ex-world cup winning coach.
Even as an England fan who has fallen victim to South Africa’s scrum two world cups in a row, I really disagree with this law change. The issue isn’t with the scrum itself, it’s with the way it’s reffed and how long it takes to set up. Courtney Lawes and Jim Hamilton said it recently that the game is moving away from the physicality instead of embracing it. What makes rugby special is the dominant scrums, huge hits, and big carries. People watch rugby because they want to see absolute athletes expressing power in the form of collisions. That is quite literally the definition of a scrum.
South African here. Agree completely.
The Saffers have always been ultra-physical and love nothing more than a stand-up physical contest. I was looking forward to other nations finding a way to compete rather than relying on a rule change. I remember the 1997 Lions tour of South Africa and thinking we would get killed in the scrum with the likes of Os Du Randt there. When McGeechan put up Tom Smith and Paul Wallace in the front row I thought they were mad (not understanding the Dark Arts of front row play). But they had brilliant technique and Jim Telfer drilled the forwards mercilessly by all accounts. An exemplar case of good coaches and players with good technique fronting up a clear threat on the field.
For me the problem with scums is the 6 minutes of playing time trickling away for a scrum that turns into another scrum then another and before you know it the game is over! I think an easy fix for this, is the TMO or even the ref, pauses the clock. Easy fix! No need to change rules, just pause the clock, and resume it when the scrum is set.
Thanks for your videos from Canada! 🇨🇦
I agree 100% with every point you've made here. And these unintended consequences are going to force WR to make even more law changes, like upgrading scrum free kicks for certain offences to instant penalties, which is certainly not the solution either. But they'll have to do it to clear up the consistency confusion.
I'm not sure they care about either consistency or confusion... If they did, it would be the match officials they were tweaking, not the game.
A great analysis Tim. And I agree with everything you say here. The problem is that, unlike you, the people making these decisions (some of whom have previously made a great contributions to our game), haven't strapped boots on in any role on the field for a long, long time. Not even as a waterboy. I know a very experienced waterboy who will outthink them all and make them come up with even more laws soon.
You are dead right. It’s the Kiwis moaning about scrums. Scrums are unique to rugby and are a huge part of our great game.
Agreed. Fundamental!
Hey I love scrums as a kiwi, one of the things i love watching bout rugby, its the idiots moaning about it mate
You are dead wrong, a couple of kiwi pundits have voiced opinions about speeding the game up and getting the stop start element out of scrums but why would NZ with one of the best scrums in the world be behind this? Incredible ignorance to think this is "the kiwis".
@@jesseferguson4269 Don't treat people like they are stupid. Foster was very vocal about it leaving as the coach and then got his buddy Gatland to be your proxy (rather than leave it to Razor to sort out) posing as if it was for the benefit of The Lions and Wales. Gatland has also never been that charitable to SA rugby. We was one of the Catalysts to the drama in the last Lions series complaining about Marius Jonker and then Erasmus.
Yes The Kiwis hate to lose.And they know the only way to beat the Springboks is if they can put restrictions in place to weaken the Springboks Pack of Forwards.If not they wil find it very difficult to beat our Springboks.They realize after our Isolation from Rugby,we now have catch-up and they wil lose 6times out of 10.
Rumour has it that WR is changing their name to World Touch Rugby…. Not sure if true 😂
I can confirm
World Out of Touch Rugby
looks like its heading that route😂 and it'll end up being boring
Should just stop the clock during scrum sets/resets therefore not eating into game time, but also not rushing and therefore compromising on safety. The scrum battle can be one of the most exciting bits of the game.
I agree. And also start policing the feed, less resets and more quick penalties for dominance and collapsing etc.
I have no words. I am beyond fed up with Bill Beaumont and world rugby. They are and have continued to ruin the game we love. Rugby fans need to protest and force them out. Scrum are integral to rugby union, a game played by all types and you want coaches and teams to think outside of the box. Hope coaches push the boundaries again, to find unique ways to give world rugby two fingers and say fine, you want this, well we will do this. Rugby is a brilliant game and each team has it's strength and weaknesses. I am getting so fed up with the game is being ruined. Fans will have to be given the rugby laws soon to understand what is actually going on. Why can teams not call a scrum off a free kick, simply fix the put in, put a shot clock on setting the scrum etc. Great analysis as always. Just a very sad day for rugby.
Wonder if they realise that the only reason Damien Willemse did what he did was because of the Dupont law, France not wanting to scrum!
Precisely. Ironic isn't it
The world cup was a spectacle but for WR the worst thing happened...another Springbok victory. Every time SA wins a RWC rule changes rain in.
I agree that scrums have a place in rugby, and no, I don't think they should be eliminated from the game, but I do think that scrums have become far too great of a focus in the professional era. I'm glad to see World Rugby are willing to make changes in this area. How this particular change will influence the situation I do not know, but I see the problems with the scrum the following way;
In it's purest form the scrum is supposed to be a physical contest stacked in favor of the team in possession intended to restart play after an in-field stoppage not involving foul play. They have the added benefit of tying up the forwards, creating more room for running rugby. That's it. That's the only purpose it was intended to serve at its inception.
However, incremental law changes have compounded to morph the scrum into a penalty earning contest. To my mind this is very much against the spirit of the game. Penalties are supposed to be punishment for flaunting the laws of the game, for dangerous play and for cynical acts, they're not supposed to be punishment for losing a physical contest.
The prevalence of penalties at scrum time has made them so tactically valuable that they have become the most time consuming but arguably least entertaining element of the sport. Additionally, a team that is losing the fitness battle later in a match can significantly mitigate their shortcoming by wasting minutes at a time resetting scrums.
As long as scrums are awarded for knock-ons they will continue to be an integral part of the game no matter how many other scrum options are removed. I don't have a problem dropping the scrum option from free-kick restarts, it will speed up the game, except in the event that the free-kick was awarded from a scrum offense. I do not think you should be able to get out of scrummaging by committing an infringement. So what's the fix?
I have long though that World Rugby should introduce an 'indirect penalty' by which a team could kick for touch and territorial gain, but not for points. I think scrum infringements would be the ideal circumstance for an indirect penalty. There will still be lots of ways to earn penalties and they will continue to be critical in tight games, but I don't think that simply losing a scrum in your own half should be enough to hand a result to an opponent. Let's do what we can to make sure matches are decided by diving tries in the corner, or bullocking touch-downs after furious goal-line defensive stands, and not because a prop drops to a knee after seventy-nine minutes of busting a lung.
That's it, that's all I have...
...for now...
Tha'ts what I said but not as well as you did The point was missed leave the scrum alone just don't give pennies for failing to keep your feet well 3 points I should say you are spot on
I totally agree with your assessment Tim, and I find it frustrating that there is very little real discussion or transparency around how they come to these law changes.
100% agree Tim, WR have made some staggeringly bad decisions in the past 12 months and this is another.
I am a South African and I am very proud of what we are able to achieve if we really apply ourselves!
I agree with you totally, not because I am South African but I want to see a hard, tactical and powerful game when it comes to rugby. Yes the South African squad have trained so very hard to get to where they are and taking absolutely nothing away from any other teams and sportsmen' and women with the will and discipline to achieve greatness within themselves and as a team. That is what sport is about to me, about achieving more by training as hard as possible through discipline.
I can't see any other reason that World Rugby has done this other than the fact South Africa have won the last 2 world cups. For me the game won't be as much entertaining.
Each team has their thing, their soul as some call it, the character they have.
New Zealand, so systematical and have all their basics to a T. Then blended with their incredible skill and pace they play the game with. Their attitude is not to give up. They are a team that can and so often have come back in the dying minutes of a test match scoring a try or even two.
As somebody with a love for the sport Rugby I enjoy watching their skill and how they play the game. They dominated almost flawlessly for so long!
As a South African watching us almost always lose them and all other teams too, I patiently waited for years supporting my team the Springboks and the game Rugby for what it is. I never once felt we needed to change the laws of the game or hated the Kiwis for beating us. Yes it was really crap but I always believed we and other teams would eventually come back by learning and training harder. That is the sportsmen's way in my opinion. If you can't beat em, train harder!
Unfortunately in this world we are living in we get bitter people that would rather try to control or change something which already works incredibly well as apposed to actually working hard for it. I'm gutted that these people actually have the power to do so and it gets accepted. I'm gutted us as the fans or coaches of the international teams and actual players have no say in the matter..
What makes Bill Bowlmont or however you spell his name so much more special to have the say to change these laws without consulting or discussing. The same rules as they are apply to all of us fairly, or do they?
I want to see powerful scrums on the field. I want to see players bringing it onto the pitch and powerhouses up against one another. Let each team play the style they want. Play and let play.
World Rugby, you may be ruining this sport for the rest of us.
Scrums are not the issue, but resets definitely are.
I was recently re-watching England's games from the 2007 World Cup, and the rapidity with which scrums were reset was incredible.
Precisely. They have used a sledgehammer to crack a nut
This is the root of it all, setting up scrums and then another one, 3-4 minutes have gone. Same with the stupid huddle that happens at line outs now. The game needs speeding up at set pieces including place kicks.
Partly because the hit became very dangerous but WR could have tried simpler solutions.
That's nothing. Watch the 1995 RWC final. No pussy-footing when those front rows hit.
I've never heard a casual rugby fan complain about scrums.
@harryspicer1743intresting. If you Australians genrally hate the scrum that much and adore open play, why not play a form of rugby where the scrum is taken out and there is much more emphasis on open play... Wait a minute 🤔
@harryspicer1743 Pro rugby union certainly will exist here in 10 years, I think thats abit dramatic, as is only growing at grassroots. But yeah it's dumb and short sighted and is going to result in even more law changes to combat the consequences and exploitation of this law.
@harryspicer1743 Your family are dumb. I’m not from the NH. Scrums are a set piece, set pieces are actions which teams play off. Scrums encourage teams to then run the ball off of that scrum.
This new rule means teams will kick the ball, or tap and go. What do you think is more positive for rugby? Having a scrum off a free kick, in which teams just have their backlines available, so 7 players vs 7 in the defensive line, or a tap and go, where it’s a fully set 15 man team as the defensive line, or kicking every time. Scrums encourage running rugby more than the other options. Use your brain.
It is really sad. The international rugby leadership seem out of touch with the spirit of what rugby is and should be. Instead of leaning into what 15s rugby is and what makes it special and different from Rugby League and Rugby 7s - the physicality, the scrum and the fact that it requires a diversity of player size, build and skills to win - they rather are trying to make it more like League and 7s. No one that loves rugby was bored during the QF, SF and final in the RWC that involved SA (even though scrums played such a big role). I would much rather watch the England vs SA SF than the NZ vs Argentina one. I feel that is the main issue - that the leadership at the international level is misguided and out of touch with what rugby is and why we love it. A brutal, physical sport that combines skill and speed and brute force. But unfortunately I think there may also an element of sour grapes from some teams that are trying to change the rules to disadvantage the teams that are beating them more often than not now. Rather than focusing on what they themselves can do within the current laws to either strengthen their own scrum, or their bench, or come up with their own innovative strategies to win. This is a step in the wrong direction and will not win it new fans
Personally, I feel that WR have given top enough time to sort out the scrums with looking the other way at straight feeds etc and they still colapse too much, both sides are trying to gain every advantage they can so often the ref just has to go on who they believe is being the most legal. Also every fan will believe their team should have a penalty from each scrum and can point to reasons why.
Slight Irony in saying teams will sort rules out themselves whilst praising closing the DuPont loophole at the start. Professional teams will work out ways which work from them, rather than as a sport as a whole.
Just also a quick note that the NFL, which is doing a quite reasonable job at spreading itself, has made at least 6 law changes this season and completely changed the kickoff laws because it essense, the KO because a dead play.
Keep up the good work
Chasing the Sun 2 episode 4 will go down in the annals of rugby history as a proper and fit dedication to the scrum.
Rugby will never be the same again😢
This has Gatland and Foster written all over it. A classic case of "tall poppy syndrome. The kiwis can't handle not winning ...
YEAH, THE kIWIS HATE THAT THEY LOST. It's their arrogance. They give the impression that they're cool lads, but in reality they're cry-babies.
You really think Foster has any influence over world rugby. Get a grip
@@timgregory82 yes I do. Every single pod cast, pundit show coming out of NZ post WC was whining about speeding up the game. Whining about how the Boks are destroying the game. The only team in the world at present playing the game the way it was intended is the Boks.
What a clown making accusations without any proof it doesn't matter what laws they have NZ will dominate with Razorrr.
And Rassie will still outsmart them 😂
Agree - even long terms fans are confused: the complicated rules are the most frustrating part of rugby
How good is Rassie? Have to change the game to beat him. The “fix” is in. Sad to see our greatest foes NZ driving it. I guess winning by any means possible is truly the NZ way. Even changing a game they’ve dominated for 30 years.
They’ve become soft.
Ball in play stats
1987 28.11
2003 31.58
2011 32.12
2019 34.21
2023 34.18
Scrums
1987 32
2003 22
2011 19
2019 14
2023 15
What exactly is the problem?
Just because the game doesn't suit the NZ eye doesn't mean we must make it 15-man league. Richard Low, Hayman, Collins, McCaw and the great packs of NZ past are being dishonored as much as SA are being nullified. Absolutely mind blowing
New Zealand were not driving the scrum changes. New Zealand you say have gone soft, yet the beat you guys nearly 3 out of 4 times since neutral referees.
Damn interesting stats... allow me to be devils advocate for a sec. The boks also win at all costs. its what makes the two teams so damn hard to beat. Remember the food poisioning in 95. Now of course its a touchy subject but i mean lets call a spade a spade. NZ have always used the laws to get the advantage. previously it was chosing a guy who was invisible to refs in mccaw. Now they try and get an upper hand by forcing everyone to play their style. Its okay. the boks will be fine.
Its truly pathetic if you think NZ are behind this. The ABs have nearly always had parity or been dominant at scrum time with the best, including the boks. Its like some boks fans cant admit that there are other teams who scrum as well or better than them. Move on and cry somewhere else.
Agreed, Warren.
@@warrenbooysen Homie, dont get emotional. Read. I am simply playing devils advocate. I AM A DIE HARD BOK FAN. Dont be the worst of us on social media man.
I firmly disagree, Tim. The scrum carries too much weight in deciding rugby matches. Like a lineout, a scrum is a contest for the ball to restart play, yet we're rarely ever talking about how important lineouts are cos less penalties occur at a lineout. Instead, the competitive, professional athletes that play this sport don't want play to restart. They can either win a penalty or waste a load of time at scrums and currently, both of those things are seen as more important than giving yourself a platform to play the game from. Scrums are exciting but we want to see more tries and more attacking rugby and the current laws around scrums don't encourage players to play the game.
When the sport is already struggling to get attention from new markets and struggling financially as a whole, scrums are not helping rugby appeal to a wider audience. I don't want a Rugby League style scrum but I do want something better than what we've got.
Put the ball in, have a contest for the ball, get the ball out, waste less time doing it.
World Rugby Hate the Springboks
Rightly so. They suck.
@@henryburton6529 Opinions are like Assholes. everyone has them. And i for one dont wana see/hear yours..
@@henryburton6529Here's the reaction you hoping for...
@@henryburton6529 Got your rainbow panties in a knot there, pumpkin? Stop the tears now.
@@henryburton6529 4 world cups but they suck? This is why it's best to lay off the nyaope folks.
Non rugby follower here, but sports lover in general. Interesting video and opinion. I follow Australian Rules Football (or did) until the the AFL started tinkering with the rules on a year by year basis until the game is no longer recognizable to the great game I once loved. Many of these rule changes were brought in to ‘speed up’ the game when it was already one of the fastest action powered games in the world. Many of these changes came about to please the television rights holders to initially score more goals so that more ad breaks could be inserted before the resumption of play. But then coaches quickly learnt how to counter this by placing greater emphasis on defence rather than attack.
I, as a non rugby occasional rugby viewer, do like a good scrum when it’s fully operational and working but find it very perplexing when a free is plucked out of what appears to be mid air. The thing I have against rugby is teams seem to target their opposition in drawing out an infringement and receiving a penalty, often a match winning one at that. My advice, which I’m not qualified to give, but as a novice, is once the scrum is properly packed down to the referees satisfaction, then all bets are off and let the best team win the advantage, no flaky minor infringements be rewarded. I do remember England winning the World Cup in Sydney by constantly winning penalties through scrum infringements with Wilkinson slotting goals from beyond the half way line, they didn’t score one try, which the Aussies did but still lost, the crowds love tries not penalty goals.
Really interesting points, and I agree for the most part. Small point of order - Australia and England scored 1 try apiece in the 2003 final ;)
@@EggchasersRugby isn't it time for the codes to become one...would love to see a full show on the benefits of that.
Rassie is going to set up multiple mauls. Like the "PLAY" in the 2019 WC final, but he will stack them, perhaps up to 6 times after every scrum free kick the Boks win. He will get the technique perfected and we re going to see 40m mauls and tries from mauls like never before. Can't wait 🙂!
Cannot agree with you more
Ekt ook hierdie move gesien kom!
I agree with you. Leave the scrums alone as they are. New laws cause too many problems. Agree with you 100%. I love your channel. Cannot wait to see you in South Africa later this year. Love your comments.
Kind regards
Braam
World Rugby is just jealous that South Africa won back to back Rugby World Cups
Unfortunately Bill and his buddies are hopeless we need a change urgently please 🙏
Sonny Bill Williams, in the second 2017 test against the B&I Lions, became only the second All Black in history to be sent off with a red card. Prior to this, NZ had no complaints about the integrity of the game and their opposition being red carded at a much higher rate than them and a stellar win rate. Since SBW's red, many more ABs players have been sent off, culminating in Sam Cane being sent off in the RWC2023 final. The ABs win rate has also decreased from its lofty heights over the first 100 or so years in recent times. When NZ had the strongest bench and highest fitness levels in the world, circa 2015, there was no issue with using your bench, it was said that modern rugby is a 23 man game and the players who finish a test are just as, if not more important than the 15 who start. The Springboks, on the basis of a strong scrum and stacked bench, have won two world cups back to back. Suddenly we hear from NZ on a weekly basis that red cards need to be only 20 minutes long, subs must be reduced or only allowed in case of injuries so there can be more tired players, and scrums must be nerfed, and of course WR inclines their ear, because their biggest brand has spoken. It must be nice to just have WR in your pocket like that
Be careful taking what you hear out of Clown Kirwin''s mouth as being representative of NZ's views in general. He's a toxic whiny PoS, & Jeff Wilson lacks the backbone to push back against the bile speech that comes out of Kirwin's mouth.
Why on earth would world rugby favor nz? All the money is in the northern hemisphere. Put your thinking cap on
I agree with you I hate these stupid NZ pundits and supporters now . Hope they never win another game
@@timgregory82 You sound like a decision maker at World Rugby. Do you have to stop thinking when you fart, or can your backside do two things at the same time?
@@timgregory82 Exactly, we can't even get the NH teams to send a competent squad for June tests, how the hell are we going to drive law changes like this, madness
Repeated collapsing scrums that lead to ambiguous calls and momentum killing penalty kicks are boring.
But they have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Scrums are integral to the psychology of rugby. They are one of the marked difference between the complexities of RU vice the more simple (high speed) RL.
The Springbok’s call for a penalty against France at the RWC was inspired. He completely drove at the heart of strategy: we will take you on upfront so if you kick long we will just outscrum, win penalties and dominate a territory-set piece battle. This call by world rugby is a blow to the intelligence of the game.
The irony is that just removing the Dupont law may have the need for that strategy.
It's time to leave WR and start a new Rugby body. That is governed by the people that are involved in the game not old men
Can’t agree more. And Tim as president
They are treating rugby like a business and that business needs more customers. These changes in laws do not take into consideration the old fans and how we enjoy this beautiful sport as it is, which has players of all shapes and sizes, as you pointed out. They just need new customers to make more money.
Love your channel. Greeting from Chile.
I think Rassie saw this coming, maybe the signing of Tony Brown as one of the top attack coaches in world rugby was done with a specific purpose in mind. Expect a more attacking style of play from the Boks, we have the backs, with big bruising forwards to carry the phases.
Grant Fox??
Grant Fox??? Do you want to try that again?? 🤣🤣
@@timgregory82 Yep my mistake, I can play the blame game and put age as the culprit. Tony Brown, ( fixed it)🙈🤣
@@michaelagathagelou6412 Yeah I know 🤣 happens to us all, boet!! Thanks for the chuckle!
Tony Brown isn't one of the top attack coaches in the world. What has he down that's notable? If he was what you claim he is, the NZRU would have snapped him up long ago.
Spot on Tim! Why not bring the two sides closer together, just doing ‘crouch and engage’ eliminating the surge forward? There’s too many pinickty infringements at scrums which should be ignored. When I was a member of the front row brotherhood, we wouldn’t dream of going down. Leave scrums alone and look at the sealing off/ off feet fiascos that happen at rucks.
I love scrums, and the rugby is as good as its been in some time. Very exciting matches in every competition almost. Leave scrums alone! Bring scrums back for free kicks. The other law changes are fine. And leave the laws as is for a 10 years maybe or just alone.
I didn't even contemplate the 'get out of jail, free card' that the new scrum law will allow for. An amazing point, Tim, and one that will have significant impact on union's most unique and intriguing tactical and physical elements.
International rugby has never been better in my opinion. The 2023 World Cup was one of the best of all time, especially the knock outs. The Six Nations used to have a reputation of producing slow, low scoring games, but for the last few years it's been home to some of the best attacking rugby you can watch. The most recent summer tours were dynamite, with each series having a deciding third test, the first time that's ever happened. We've never had such a level playing field at international level, it's just so so good. The international game in its current state is something that needs to be preserved and promoted, not changed. It's baffling honestly.
Well said egg chases. agree completely. Teams like South Africa, New Zealand Ireland, etc. will just innovate to any rule change. It’s not gonna make it easier on any other team.
Not sure they even care. But it is clear that this is a weapon that they can take away from the Boks…. BUT!!!!! the Boks are pretty good at coming up with new weapons and I can’t wait to see what new weapons Rassie unleash on the world this year.
Fully agree completely with what you are saying. Scrums are an important facet of the game and should not be depowered.
The only thing I will say is at elite level the scrums do seem to take a long time set and reset. It often seems the ref is using them to get a breather and get his own baring before they are set, and then they take it too slowly. If you watch junior rugby there isn't a problem , scrums are set and completed quicky.
So the only law change I would consider at the moment is a scrum set clock, although the problem is actually the ref
simply add a scrum phase clock like the kick clock with a turnover penalty , clock starts from the moment the ref blows or call for scrum is made. The clock is for both teams and runs to the engage moment , i.e. if you are the scrum defending team and you are not ready to scrum by the time the clock is up , you take the penalty. There you go world rugby.... sorted.
⁰⁰
Your passion for the sport truly shines in this video. I sense your frustration too, and you're absolutely right to feel that way! The constant tinkering is going to have the adverse effect and lose the fans that are already here
Yea couldn't agree more for the most part. I have my doubts about them targeting the boks specifically though. I feel they just think it would be better for the game. For my part I don't think it would be and expect I'm not alone. Will the boks be very affected by this unduly? I think not so much. They are a force to be reckoned with and will just adapt. Here's a thought though.. Why don't you see if you can get your hands on one of these all powerful decision makers and interview him. Might make for some interesting content. Vis-à-vis the upcoming series and the possibility of Ireland taking advantage of this silliness.. if they do, I'll be very disappointed but even if they don't, invariably some team eventually will. So yea.. just like you said.. trying to solve one problem and creating three others. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for WR working on making the game safer but nerfing the scrum into the ground will do more damage than good.
When you actually think about it, teams being dominated in the scrum may get 4 or 5 get out of jail free cards since there are so many separate free kickable offences in the scrum. ie: 1st early engage, 1st not taking the hit, 1st no break foot, 1st no hook ect...
You got that right Tim!!! Do World Rugby consult with the different countries or do they just do as they please..? Serious question, because they seem to be doing whatever they want AGAINST the wishes of the public...
You are right scrums are not the problem.The real problem is how long it takes to set scrums.
Certain teams love to slow down the game and give their big guys a bit of rest.
Halfbacks who delay putting the ball need to be penalised with straight arm penalty.
Biggest problem in Rugby right now is amount of red cards for wrong tackle height.
For accidental tackle wrong height a orange card should be brought into the game.
For this offence a player is sent off and is replaced after 20 minutes.
All other foul play a normal red card applies.We are seeing too many games 14 vs 15.
Three years ago this wasn’t problem.This turning Rugby into handicap event.
The handicap 14.This is horse racing not rugby.
Bill Beumont is a law unto himself, the God of rugby who will not be challenged. And he can do as he chooses cos no one can stop him.
Cheers Tim. As a Bok fan, I wonder if World Rugby would have made the law change re the free kick - scrum if South Africa didn't win the World Cup. No one complained when England won the trophy with a dominant pack in 2003.
Something needs to change. Part of the problem is down to scrum coaches and Props trying all sorts of tricks to get penalties. Also some referees are not up to standard in the art of the scrum. A few years ago a referee in the Premiership told the props after the 3rd collapse that he would send both props off for 10 mins if it collapsed again. It never collapsed again.
Like many small town South Africans I got introduced to rugby at age 5 playing pinkvoete.
Our first game was basically a game of koppe stamp. Played wing my whole school life but koppestamp is where it all started
Big or small we born in the scrum eMzansi.
I can’t believe the went ahead with the free kick law. I’m a bok fan and feel ill because of it. How stupid are they. And btw, thanks for an awesome channel
You are correct with your views about the amendments to the rules. When me and my family or with friends are watching a game, there is a continuous discussion about decisions and rules which are confusing to fans. Must be the team sport with the most rules of which many are discretionary. And you're right: there is a bias against good & solid scrummaging for reasons: results favored the world cup winners.
Sadly law changes and price rises will kill the game off because people well done Dorking colts for winning the Nations Cup
Saw that result...good on Dorking
Since the game ended injury only replacements the packs have become huge since most of the pack will only play an average forty minutes. This has led to scrums no longer being mainly a means to restart the play and more an opportunity to win a kickable penalty. As you said, it is solutions for problems other rule changes have created. If the pack is made to stay on the park for the whole game then you will have to balance power and weight against endurance. The spaces will open up later on as the less mobile pack starts to labour and their scrum advantage from the first half becomes less of a factor.
My sentiments exactly.
Expect it won't go down well though with the hardliners here.
@@dougvee4744 Another thing that goes unnoticed is the size of the centres these days as so much of the game is based around the pack. When you look at the amount of time the pack spends in the scrum, lineout (often followed by mauling), pick and drive, forming those caterpillars etc, it means that the backs do not cover the amount of ground as in days gone by so even they are giants. To be honest the only "weird" looking players in terms of size these days are the scrum halves and some oversized props. It is becoming less a game for all sizes and more a game for different shapes but above a minimum weight. Before 2000 how many 10s did you know that were big enough to play at 12 or 13? I can only think of Mike Catt.
Sounds like WR have been listening way to much to those two whining cry babies from the breakdown show in NZ
Can't dispute the whining dudes but as a kiwi can say I'm of the scrums are great camp and leave the rules alone as well
People like Ian Foster complaining about playing time vs stopping time. Wants to speed up the game for the SPECTATORS! Let’s cut down on scrums. Scrumming is an art! Resets are caused by pressure, usually from the dominant team. Now they want to make it “more equal” so the weaker team can give away a free kick only. This is where scrums will eventually be thinned out literally by reducing the bulk of the current “big guys” to more wing and centre- sized players. No need for the big bulky guys anymore. Rugby will then be broken forever! Take heed from what Nigel Owens once said “This is not soccer!”
Scrums are a way to restart the game, they should always be a contest but way too much time is spent on resets. I think the changes are good and teams will adjust and adapt as they always have
Too much room for cheating.
I was a big fat kid when I started playing rugby aged 5, played till I was 37 and always in the same position, tighthead prop and loved it. Now 76 still love the game with such passion, but can not understand why the world rugby want to change the scrum rules, it was made for the game and big kids, and boy did I make some friends over my time in the game, still love going over to the club rooms on a saterday after watching my 12 year old grandson play.
Your summary of the rule change is dead right. Leave the bloody scrum alone, and bring back rucking.
Those were the days
2 persons will be very happy about the scrum law John Kirwen -Jeff Wilson their moaning came true
Why is that? Kirwan stated about scrums “The scrum is a great part of this game, but we just need to let the advantage go to the team that's putting it in. Then if you're good enough, push us off it when we've put the ball in”
Seems you like to misread and float lies
Sounds like your just moaning for the sake of moaning. Kirwan loves the scrums, he just hates the constant resets. You should get your facts right before making stupid comments.
@@subhuman119 enjoy the whining…South Africans have for me now become unbearable with their constant victim mentality and lack of ownership and facts. All the best in your URC
@@subhuman119 it’s South Africans who are moaning… ABs great at scrums.
New rules now…Adapt and play on
@@HeeniKeke 100% its SA. Now they are pretending that Tony Brown is going to change them into a completely different team.
LOL.
This reminds me of schoolchildren playing a game. The rules change continuously 😅😅. Scrums have always been not only a show of sheer power & strength, but skill. Regardless of what many think, there is an enormous amount of skill, especially in the front rows.
Name and shame the faceless wonders of World Rugby !
Thanks again Tim.
IMHO, this law change will go down an inevitable route ending in no more competitive scrums. Front rows will just milk the free kick to the point where the free kick will replace the scrum.
Historically, the scrum was a contest for posession and the winner won the ball. Now, they win a penalty which is absurd. So we either go back to the old days (which has been deemed inherently too dangerous), or we just scrap the scrum right now.
Time for a break-away, sane teams need to break from WR and stick to the old ways with a new union.
Love your content mate keep it up. I love recommending your channel to friends. When I was younger I used to be super critical of scrums as I thought they took up too much time in the game. However as I have got older I have come to realize how special scrums are to rugby. Your point that rugby is a sport for all shapes and sizes resonates so deeply and should not be compromised especially in a world where we strive for inclusivity.
Scrums are fundamental and integral to game
Well said!! Hate that people have the power to just change things they are not happy with for their own benefit.
South Africans need to stop taking the scrum change so personally, unfortunately the game of Rugby isn't all about the Springboks. World Rugby isn't getting rid of the scrum, but they are attempting to speed up the game and get rid of the stop start nature that the game is currently in.
If South Africans want to complain, then direct those complaints to your own coaches, they are the ones that directed the Springboks to slow down the game and scrum for penalties. Not to scrum as a legit option to launch an attack from set piece. Which is exactly what happened when Willemse called for the scrum in his own 22.
When the All Blacks were on top and won back to back World Cups, they game was played at pace with an expansive style (Why do you think Australia made the final in 2015). When the game suddenly was slowed down and suited teams like South Africa, like it has during the last eight years - suddenly everyone wants to complain about it.
The game will evolve and it will change. No point moaning about it, just get on with it.