2 WAYS to Treat Historical Sources w/ LDS Polygamy and Joseph Smith Historian, Don Bradley
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2023
- LDS Polygamy and Joseph Smith Historian Don Bradley explains that there are two ways to treat historical sources.
Don Bradley's Academia.edu page, with several of his publications, including one on the John Alger account of the First Vision:
josephsmithpapers.academia.ed...
Don's book The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon's Missing Stories:
www.amazon.com/Lost-116-Pages...
It is often more important to identify bias than it is to avoid bias.
@brettmajeske3525 - That's a great point!
This guy 7 min of sharing deep thoughts, are more time then my whole life thinking deep. I love it❤
Really enjoyed this insight. Useful reminder.
So grateful these men have felt driven to this.
I love the classic movie, 'Rashomon' which demonstrates this so clearly.
@paulblack1799 I'm aware of the movie - I'll have to watch it!
Such a good movie and story!
It is always a good idea to look at possible agendas of those making the sources. Also how close to the event, in time and space, were the sources?
Did you know that Hyrum Smith went to college prep school from 1811 to 1815 on the Dartmouth college campus? Did you know that Joseph Smith's relative was a theology professor at Dartmouth from 1775 to 1804, named John Smith? Did you know that Professor John Smith's writings are virtually identical to mormon doctrines? Did you know that Professor John Smith taught Ethan Smith who wrote the View of the Hebrews in 1823? Did you know that Ethan Smith was the pastor of Oliver Cowdery's family? Did you know that View of thet Hebrews has many similarties with the BOM? Did you know Dartmouth College was only 5 miles away from where the Smith's lived?
Did you know that your timelines don’t add up to anything?
@@candicesummers5427 I am not sure what you mean. Ethan Smith was taught by Smith family relative professor John Smith. Also, there were other relatives of the Smith family working at Dartmouth during Hyrum Smith attendance at Dartmouth. I am sure you are aware that the Smith family had a number of teachers and tutors in the family.
The general idea is that there are many of the KEY Smith family members in and around Dartmouth. This forms a platform to obtain existing doctrines and themes for the BOM. One of the "proofs" of BOM is that Joseph could't have made up the information himself, and GRANTED he didn't make it up by himself, -INSTEAD he used the resources from Dartmouth (Professor John Smith's writings, Ethan Smith's wirtings, Hyrum and Oliver's education and connections)
What! I thought he was a poor farm boy with no education… Amazing I never knew about this in my 24 years as a faithful member of the church. On a second thought… it would make sense the church doesn’t want us to know about these details.
@@quentinbjensen5430 I think the historical evidence shows that Hryum was above average raw intelligence, and had access to some very good college prep teaching, as well as family resources that taught at Dartmouth. For instance, their Dartmouth relative professor John Smith's writings show up in BOM and DC. They seem to be educated enough to obtain other peoples advanced thoughts and plaglarize them
Polygamy is polygamy…..
Could you ask Don Bradley about author Richard Van Wagoner? I started reading his book "Mormon Polygamy: A History" and found he treated all the ex-mormon type historical accounts as being the authority. In the first 50 pages I just felt his own bias coming through in the book and basically just stopped reading as it didn't even seem objective. I figure Don Bradley has to know Richard as they are historians on the subject. I am curious what his thoughts are about Richard's book and also the publisher Signature Books.
Calling it "evidence" is too generous.
It's all just data.
DON BRADLEY: Sooooo your argument is that we should NOT trust historical evidence that we can see, BUT we should trust FAITH stories about Joseph Smith that are unsupported by historical evidence (or not held to the same standard as negative mormon evidence)???
To pretend that people who existed in Joseph Smith’s day had no agendas or personal biases is to ignore human nature. You have to remember that Joseph Smith had many enemies even during his lifetime, so I wouldn’t take every historical source as gospel truth just because it happens to come from the same time period that JS lived.
@@candicesummers5427 The problem is that there are just too many hisotrical artificats that testify of Joseph Smith's true actions and character. Some written in his own hand (eg letter asking friend not to tell Emma he was hooking up with another wife). And other testimonies by his own friends, like his chief scirbe:
This is an excerpt from the diary of Willam Clayton, who was Joseph Smith's chief scribe:
"Now, I say to you, as I am ready to testify to all the world, and on
which testimony I am most willing to meet all the Latter-day Saints
and all apostates, in time and through all eternity, I did write the
revelations on celestial marriage given through the Prophet Joseph
Smith, on the 12th of July, 1843.
When the revelation was written there was no one present except the
Prophet Joseph, his brother Hyrum and myself. It was written in the
small office upstairs in the rear of the brick store which stood on the
banks of the Mississippi river. It took some three hours to write it.
Joseph dictated sentence by sentence, and I wrote it as he dictated.
After the whole was written Joseph requested me to read it slowly
and carefully, which I did, and he then pronounced it correct. The
same night a copy was taken by Bishop Whitney, which copy is now
here (in the Historian's office) and which I know and testify is
correct. The original was destroyed by Emma Smith.
I again testify that the revelation on polygamy was given through the
prophet Joseph on the 12th of July, 1843; and that the Prophet
Joseph both taught and practiced polygamy I do positively know, and
bear testimony to the fact."
Sealed marriage in the Celestial is unbiblical according to Mat. 22:29-32. Who do you believe, Joseph or JESUS?
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead-have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
EVIDENCE that Joseph Smith used writings from a relative for the creation of Mormonism:
Hyrum Smith went to school on the Dartmouth Campus (1811-15) and one of his relatives used to be a theology professor at Dartmouth (John Smith 1774-1804)!
Similarities between Dartmouth professor John Smith's writings and the Book of Mormon
20 point summary of John Smith Lectures:
1. Greek philosophy provided his concept of the Pre-existence.
2. Atonement Covenant was made before the earth was.
3. Plan of Salvation was agreed to in the Pre-existence.
4. Father, Son and sons of men were together in the Pre-existence.
5. Spiritual death was man’s condition after the fall.
6. Son’s Church would exist in all ages after the fall.
7. Types and shadows of the covenant found in the Scriptures.
8. Oaths and covenants serve as Deity’s legal structure.
9. Light, borrowed light and the light of reason would guide.
10. Melchizedek Priesthood is co-eternal with God.
11. The Priesthood is the source of the Son’s authority.
12. Aaronic Priesthood promised to Aaron’s descendants.
13. Free Agency and the right to choose is integral to the plan.
14. Degrees of Glory is the structure of the Eternities.
15. Consecration to Christ is required for highest exaltation.
16. Revelation required to know ultimate nature of God.
17. Spirit is a simpler form of matter.
18. The prosperity cycle is the natural direction of history.
19. Millions of peopled worlds.
20. Father argues for justice and Son argues for mercy.
What do these thoughts have to do with the Book of Mormon?
This looks more like the Doctrine and Covenants. Have you even read the Book of Mormon?
That would be the first step in understanding where it came from.
@@beckischreyer So you DO agree that Professor John Smith's writings from 20 years prior to the BOM are actually very similar to DC? Have you read the CES Letter and responses to FAIR?
@@MaryLeonard-mj9ng …. I’ve read. The CES letter doesn’t touch the knowledge I have of my Savior and the logical sense that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ makes to me.
Interesting to me how everyone NOW wants to show where all these beliefs came from… since when they were restored they seemed new… so new that many stumbled on them.
The key is… the gospel was restored. Not created new out of thin cloth. Of course you can find these truths in history. And of course Joseph Smith was not perfect but the Lord only has imperfect people to work with. I know all about the history… my father told me all of it. He’s a direct descendant of pioneers … and knew the details from the beginning. I have never expected perfection from our leaders … only inspiration and revelation that the Lord promised to send. And He has sent since Adam was on earth.
The logical sense of the plan of salvation and our purpose on earth, the knowledge that we all are literal spirit children of loving Heavenly Parents will always be more inspirational and logical than anything that imperfect men decided the nature of God is … in particular the hard to grasp Trinity that no one can fully explain today.
If you really took the time to study and pray about the gospel of Jesus Christ… as it was restored to match the New Testament church as set up by Christ himself… read the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants…. Pearl of Great Price… with a soft heart and open mind… you would discover the truth of it.
If you insist on repeating tired lies and mistruths… you never will discover the most glorious truths on earth today ♥️♥️
@@beckischreyer I have read the Bible, the Gospel of John, and Jesus spoke directly to my soul to come to Him for salvation! Jesus says in the Gospel of John that HE ALONE is all I need to be complete and spend eternity in His presence!!
Did you read the evidence that Joseph Smith lied about translating the BOA? The evidence is conclusive! It was only common Egyptian funeral scripts that Joseph said were written by Abraham (A LIE)!!
Is it not possible that you have been deceived by a false prophet whom Jesus warned us against!??!?!!!! PLEASE take some time to READ the Gospel of John and pray directly to JESUS, and ask Jesus if you should follow HIM alone, or your prophet.
You are in danger of spending eternity separated from God. Have you been brainwashed since a youth? Take some time and fast and pray and ask Jesus directly what is true!
@@beckischreyer With today’s historical resources, you can actually find all the Restored Gospel doctrines scattered throughout early Christianity. That’s what you would EXPECT. Not necessarily anything wildly different. Yes, even many doctrines critics of the Church arbitrarily beg the question by calling them “pagan,” eg, Christian temple ordinances. So what you would expect is a combination of personal revelation on WHICH of the doctrines are true, directly from God, with evidence that they all at least existed in Christendom at one time.