you have fair points, but at least we didn't murderfuck slaneesh into existence and so high up on ourselves that we massacre planets for being on a tomb world without you know, INFORMING FIRST. but hey, heresy kill xenos right? love, a guardsmen (PS: this is all a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way)
Ya know, one day I do hope you do a 'which chaos god' is the best video, as well as 'what warhammer character is the best'. My vote for both would be Slaanesh and Fulgrim. Say what you will about being possessed and guilt-ridden over the brother he killed, Fulgrim by far is the living the best life out of any warhammer character. he basically lives on a planet of endless pleasure, he's incredibly powerful (killed 2 primarchs ), he's immortal, and he doesn't have to worry about his future or the continuation of humanity...or anything really. All he has to do is lounge around being serviced by his minions in boundless pleasure, and whenever he wants to mix things up, he can strike out into battle and fight anyone he wants, inflicting pain upon himself and the enemy (and given how much enjoyment he constantly feels, the pain might actually be a healthy change of pace). He doesn't have to worry about the tyranids eating the galaxy or the endless toil of the imperium of man. he's basically living in 'paradise' at this point. Even if he is killed he'll just get revived in the warp, and then he gets to experience all the 'endless pleasure' all over again. compared to his brothers Angron (who is basically a brainless brute who gets to chop off heads like its his new 24 hour day job), Mortarion (who smells like literal piss and shit all the time, and whose senses are numbed to the point where he can barely feel anything anymore), and Magnus (who is essentially another workaholic who has to constant stress out over the trillions of plots that he is constantly planning). Fulgirm, on the other hand, is just a happy stoner that gets to chill all day and be massaged and waited on by countless servants until the end of fucking time. lol
Theory: if the Emperor were to wake up, the "Imperium" wouldn't thrive. He would start anew and bring it all to ruin so he can rebuilt the great Galaxy expanding empire he always wanted. It's easier to paint over a white canvas than to correct every little mistake ever
That, and awakening the Emperor would probably mean killing him first, which would depower the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne, so Terra would most likely go poof and the warp storms wouldn't leave much Imperium left anyway (kinda like a second Age of Strife)
I disagree, he’d have to kill way too much of the Imperium to “wipe the slate clean”. By the time he finished there’s no way he could stop the onslaught of both Tyranids and Orks from crushing everything. Only so many worlds fit for human habitation without aliens destroying them, and that’s not even getting into the various exterminatus needed for said slate wiping.
I mean that’s fair. The emperor was just ego tripping for the most part while making the imperium so like it makes sense he’d do just as bad of a job the first time
Given what the Emperor seems to be about, I imagine he would take a more practical approach. Unfortunately, the Imperium under him probably wouldn’t change much until things were in a much more workable state.
In all seriousness, this would be a great way to reintroduce Exodites as a modern faction. In multiple stories the Exodites have been shown willing to cooperate with humans and I think this would be a great opportunity to create a hybrid Eldar/Human faction. Previous treaties always got killed by some inquisition force who got a whiff of xenos, and with a fractured imperium, Exodites could reasonably resurface in somewhat cooperative force with humans. There is a city if AoS that does something similar, combining human tech with wood elf nature for some cool ascetics.
God I wish they’d get their own army so bad. The Asrai in Fantasy were so fucking dope and it sucks they’ve got no 40K counterpart in a meaningful sense. To some extent I get it because in a sci fi setting a faction whose whole schtick is “never leaves their planet” isn’t ideal for a sci fi setting but there’s still potential with the webway for them to be their own thing.
@@pancreasnowork9939 if the Dark Eldar can be based out of 1 city, then the Exodites can definitely use the web way to be a relevant force. #Exodites4warhammer
It would be extremely funny if Abaddon finally won, proclaimed himself the next emperor of man, then immediately most of the other chaos factions went "up yours, buddy!" and went back to fighting each other.
my favorite moment in the books is when the emperor said "ahhh it feels good to finally be off that damn throne, now bring me all 40 thousand warhammers."
You know Stygies VIII is immediately creating a Xeno-Human tech hydrid army and daring whatever is left of the Ordo Xenos to fight them in the parking lot.
@@mrsniffles5417 Yeah. If Stygies VIII was allowed to incorporate xenos tech since the imperium is gone, they'd not bother trying to be sneaky anymore, they could kill almost anyone.
@@seekingabsolution1907 T'au are not communist, but yeah, like Pancreas said with the Imperium gone maybe we could FINALLY see prominent INTERSTELLAR human factions that try to recreate or even rediscover the various OTHER governmental systems we have invented over the millennium other than SPACE feudalism/aristocracy. Imagine a secretive but popular movement of manufactorum workers from across a whole sector actually manages to stage successful overthrows of their planet's aristocratic rulers, likely with some outside help (preferably no Chaos involved, atleast not in a big way please) and taking advantage of the confusion from the collapse of the Imperium happining around the same time.
I want Guilliman to be the cause of the imperium fracturing. He wrote a book about how no one should ever have as much power as Horus, then assumes more power than Horus ever did and then starts bending every space marine chapter in the galaxy to his will based on self given authority. Love him or hate him I could see this primaris replacement scheme causing a civil war between Guilliman and Cawl’s new order and all the hardliners they’ve been trampling over
I actually have been running a homebrew campaign where the imperium fell and fractured with two successor states being the most powerful of the imperial remnants. One run by the Ecclesiarchy claiming to be the true and rightful heirs to the imperium. They still control the inquisition, some space marine fanatics, like the Black Templars and the Grey Knights, and most of the Astra Militarum. And the other is the Kingdom of Ultramar run by Guilliman. Most space marine chapters would pledge their allegiance to him and he would form the Royal Army from PDF’s and Guard regiments that plaedged allegiance to him. Guilliman also outlawed the worship of the emperor, and promises to better the lives of humans and vows to carry out his father’s grand plan of uniting humanity and claiming the stars
The funniest part about outlawing the worship of the emperor is that faith in Big E legitimately provides protection against chaos just because enough people think it does
curious, since the Adepta Sororitas for example have many of their number greatly admiring Guilliman, how would you handle an Adepta Sororitas order siding with Guilliman? Would they still receive the blessings of the emperor that they are so renowned for?
@@M3RUL3Z you know, that’s a really good question. None of my buddies play Adepta Sororitas so I never thought of it. I’m gonna have to get back to you on that one. What are your thoughts?
@@M3RUL3Z They admire guilliman because he is the son of the emperor Space nuns draw their power from devotion to Big E, essentially the emperors presence in the warp is so strong that living saints like Celestine are an equivalent to daemon princes So they would side with whoever they thought had the emperors divine mandate and would likely see guilliman denying the emperors godhood as heresy
Having read a lot of Dan Abnett stuff, where rival Guard regiments end up fighting each other or Inquisitors go after each other for real and imagined crimes . . . I feel like the Imperium is constantly in a borderline state of civil war anyways. Maybe the factional infighting isn't quite to the level that you see at your local gamestore, but the tabletop isn't supposed to perfectly match the lore anyways. (After all there's supposed to be 1,000 marines per most chapter and most humans will rarely see the, but you wouldn't know it from how many marine armies there are). Also I can't find the link but I did find a PDF where someone made a list of reasons Imperial factions might fight each other to justify these tabletop skirmishes.
The factions seem to be written in a way that you can justify ANY tabletop matchup. That might not be strictly true but I can’t think of any right now that don’t make sense.
@@reginlief1 Hell even *tyranid vs tyranid* can be sorta justified because say a small hive fleet tendril somehow became severed from the hivemind's synapse and started to act more erratic and independent, eventually bumping into another still connected tendril only for them to try and eat each other (basically space battles) or say it intercepts a connected hive fleet that's in the process of well...eating an entire world, so this rouge fleet sends its own hordes of severed tyranid forms into battle against the invading fleet's ground forces. (with the traditional table top or other strategy games)
Theres also dawn of War. And the months of shame where the grey knights and inquisition tried to extinct the space wolves for the heinous act of not wanting civilians and veterans who risked their lives to stop HELL, from being unceremoniously euthanized
In third edition codexes there was a section at the end explaining why this faction would want to fight all the others or even themselves, there were things like suspecting each other of chaos taint, receiving contradicting orders from the administratum, both claiming right to posses a relic... Maybe the PDF was taken from there, it added a lot of flavor imo.
@@navilluscire2567 i personally like the idea of one hive fleet deeming it necessary to consume another, maybe because it thinks it will become something greater or that it’s methods are better and therefore more important to fuel than the other’s.
I can see the Black Templars and their gang of sycophants waging holy war against the newly reformed Mechanicum while Ultramar and the T’au Empire form an uneasy alliance to fight against the Tyranids. Meanwhile the Sororitas and the Custodes reconvene on Terra to try to reclaim the Imperium as the emperor’s truest servants.
One downside I could see is that Imperium fans would get PISSED! They're the most popular faction in the setting so if they go down there would likely be massive backlash and people may decide to not spend money on the game even if they add new human stuff. Not saying I disagree, just that it's something that would likely happen
But then the Imperium could still exist, centered on Terra and, perhaps, a fair chunk of Segmentum Solar. It'd just be... weaker. Like how the Galactic Empire fractured into numerous smaller "Empires" in Star Wars Legends.
@@theinquisitor8112 honestly, it’s the best of both worlds. Just because the imperium shatters, doesn’t mean the imperium has to go away completely. You can keep everything as is, and just write up a story about it falling apart into warring states with more unique flavor that’s still human. I think it’s a great idea
Don't have to axe the codexes or factions, just have a four way war between Gulliman, Dorn/Lion/Russ, Ecclesiarchy-Overtaken-by-Inquisition, and AdMech-who-want-to-bring-back-Void-Dragon. Have each codex apply rules for each of these four new Imperial successors that make them no longer "Battle Brothers," have every faction schism around four central human powers without ditching the models, rules, or lore if someone writes it right.
Yeah, there's literally way too many humans for the species to just suddenly die of if the Imperium collapsed, sure humans would probably never again dominate the galaxy but honestly I think that's a good thing. Atleast it would force writers to pay attention to various other xenos factions rising in the midst of the confusion of the fall of the ULTRA xenophobic empire they hated.
Yeah whenever people talk about the emporium collapsing i always envisioned it as a star League scenario in which successor states would immediately pop up.
@@IronWarrior_69 *"Emporium.."* Now I'm imagining a public square space the size of a small nation on some weirdly beautiful hive world's well...hive city full of cute little shops, the interesting hook is that the planet was on the Eye of Terror side of the Great Rift and as such is among the thousands if not millions of worlds that were cut off from the remaining Imperium. Except instead of becoming some murder filled hellhole like the old propaganda said would happen the planet's populace, the masses staged a successful takeover of their planet from the clutches of the old hierarchical elites that once ruled them. They since became an trading hub were all manner of weird goods are traded and people engaging in what would've been under the Imperium's iron boot considered extremely heretical relationships between humans and various xenos civilizations and even other human successor factions all come to this plesently refreshing little world to well...trade with many of the shops being run by various alien species some of which not even the Ordo Xenos have heard of, from t'au *"unsanctioned merchants" (their Rouge traders)* to yes even *"ork pawnshops" (because yes!)* can be found amongst the stalls and spaces!
@@navilluscire2567 Since Humanity survived the Dark Ages the fall of the Imperium would be a walk in the park. Not individually but with the IOM gone many things would get better once they are "past the bottleneck".
Personally, as a Tau player, the fact that they are totally screwed is why I like them. They live short lives in a galaxy where everyone wants to kill them only to be promised nothing in death besides knowing that they fought for what they believed in, even though it never had a chance. If that’s not Grimdark… idk what is. Throw in it being lead by a self aware AI clone and Farsight being one bad day away from screaming “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD” as he runs into battle…there ya go
He is talking about Aun'va ya simpletons, guy's been a solid-light sentient hologram since agrellan a few centuries ago... which is actually much smarter than what the imperium is doing still, at least our dead leader lives on trough an AI modeled after his actual personality and doesnt require 1000 sacrifices of potentially useful assets every day
Honestly, I think there is some great possibility to make both the normal Tao and the Enclaves more Grimdark without actually making everything chaos fault. The Tau empire is pretty easy, just lean a bit more into the mind control, maybe a secret police a la the Dai Le (there is no war with the enclaves) and for Farsight, well ... maybe the enclaves had quite the large population before he showed up and had the idea to undertake a great leap forwards ... also, it would also be verry easy to have actually been right about everything if you also the moral authority to rewrite the curiculum to fit the bill (what do you mean the undersupplied force had no chance of making it? They were the verry vanguard of our cause! its just their comander was an athereal agent undermining our most glorious (crossed out rebellion) revolution! Now go back to your textbooks missing some pages because the athereals thaugt wasting paper with their imperialistic formulas was a good idea) So yeah, mind control normal Tau and an enclave with the political and developmental ideas of mao (add a "he is our great leader" if you really want to spice it up) and an attitude towards their armies like the early french revolution, reframe earlier books as propaganda and we have ourselves some verry Grimdark Tau right there
@@emileo5024 The 'mind control' idea is so one dimensional and cringe, 40K can do so much better than that. The propaganda idea may be decent, but that already exists through 'the greater good'. There's no need to over-write it and make it convoluted.
If this would happen I would love for planets to still think the imperium exists even though it collapsed like 100 years ago, just because it never did anything for them anyway
**hears that the Imperium is long gone** Ex Imperial world citizen: Oh? Really now? That is bloody well sad...welp back to my back breaking labour in some dark, stale, forsaken mineshaft so my planet's overlords can afford their huge banquets in their high spires!
Imagine a planet still pay its tithe long after the imperium is gone. Due to the absolute fuckups that is the imperium's bureaucarcy. Shit just get sent to planets already dead/dominated by xenos and chaos and not heard from again. But nobody even care because back then, it's the same. They might even like it as the tithe wont increase anytime soon
Big E: "I'm awake! What the fuck have y'all been doing. I'm out." The Imperium: Umm... infighting begins... "I told you he wasn't god!" "He's testing us!" "Hail the Omnissah!" "Dad's back but went to get milk or something!"
@@pancreasnowork9939 I am pretty sure Lorgar would flip sides if The Emperor told him three simple words. "You were right." Which honestly would make a comedically giant mess of Chaos.
If big E 'woke up' that by itself would spell the end of the imperium. Turns out your space empire needs to be able to travel through space so the astronomicon is pretty important.
Guileman should just kill the Emperor and get Cawl to punt Holy Terra into intergalactic space using the teleporter tech Mars stole during the War of the Beast.
A big story opportunity would be seeing the perspective of a newly independent planet/system desperately weighing its options on who (if anyone) it's going to ally with. Say there's a planet that's within spitting distance of both Tau space, a Marine fortress world, and a Craftworld is hanging out in the area for the moment. The planet's leader's may want to take a shot at remaining autonomous, but a Waagh or chaos fleet is approaching the system. Do they try to make a stand on their own and retain their newfound freedom? Will they submit to the Marines in exchange for protection, returning to the oppression they only just escaped? Maybe they'll take a chance with the Tau, putting all their chips on the bet that they'll be kinder overlords. Or maybe some madman will suggest straight up abandoning the planet by (somehow) striking a deal with the Craftworlders for a mass evacuation. There could be all sorts of debates or even full-on infighting about what to do, and you could make all kinds of cool outcomes.
Do keep in mind just because a world or even whole star systems are now independent from the Imperium doesn't mean the majority of the peoples of those places are free, the oppression from the aristocracy or human dynastys that have ruled over the masses for thousands of years with the Imperium never doing anything about them and their abuses towards the citizenry. So when a planet is deciding to whom they'll allie with 11 out of 12 times it's likely only an elite few or an oligarchy or despot dictators deciding this not the masses, nothing really democratic whether directly or indirectly (i.e. republics) about it.
@@navilluscire2567, If by an elite few you mean hundreds of nobles trying to figure out how not to upset tens of thousands of lesser ones then yes, and those aren't even hive world numbers. No man rules alone, democracy or not. Even despot dictators will have to answer to someone, albeit informally. Plenty of room for debate and infighting.
I love this idea purely because of the possibility of Dark Angels and Space Wolves taking their feud to the next level, which of course would be followed by the furries getting annihilated. Congrats on the 40k my man, I’m very happy I stumbled upon your channel and I’m happy I can support you!
Then they'd fart out, like, 30+ books covering that crusade and squeeze all the hype they can out of the Emperor returning (and then they'd use "The Emperor has returned!" as a selling point for over a decade lol)
I mean, tbf if they're going to bring the Emperor back, this would probably be a good way to do it imo. Like, the emperor finally wakes up, but JUST too late to save the Imperium.
Honestly even as an imperium fan I love this idea, the idea of dozens of mini imperium's allow for all different kinds of imperium ranging from truly dark and horrible to far more benevolent, not to mention the idea of Mini-imperiums allying themselves with different Xeno factions could be fun. Maybe the Blood Ravens could finally admit their true chapter master is Trazyn and we could get a whole faction of Digganobz who fight alongside orks because fuck it it sounds cool.
I love how Mechanicus music started playing once you mentioned that Mankind should still survive. It just felt like “Yeah. You know these guys are gonna go apeshit on the planets of the now former imperium the moment they realize they don’t need to pretend the Emperor and Omnissiah are the same thing anymore.”
Very interesting idea though personally I think there’s another rather simple reason that could give way to the Imperium’s fracturing: the death of the Emperor. Yes, he’s already dead as he’s a corpse on a throne but at least there’s something there for people to worship. So, what if one day all that psychic energy being funnelled into the Emperor by the sacrificed psykers simply became too much and the Emperor’s corpse burnt up/disintegrated? Nobody on the throne, nobody to unite the Imperium any more. Are we really to believe that none of the Primarchs would attempt to lay claim to the throne as his heir? They’re all brothers so have it go full breakup akin to what happened with Alexander’s generals following his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire in that sense, with differing primarchs vying to be the next Emperor. Heck, want to go really out there with this? I’m hearing lots of chatter that the Emperor’s Children will be given their own range in 10th edition so why not tie this in to this clash for power? Have Fulgrim come back full snake-daemon form but claiming that his corruption should not outweigh his claim as the Emperor’s true heir. After all the ECs were the first chapter to wear the aquila and it’s pretty much in their name so why not work with that as a reason to bring them back into the setting in a big way?
@Morgan Allen I disagree with this. One just because the Imperium itself as any sort of coherent entity is gone doesn't mean humanity is doomed to extinction, atleast not ANY time soon, there's literally WAY too many humans for that to ever be a problem. What it will mean is that humans will no longer be the dominant force in the galaxy which isn't a bad thing. Also humans can and do have objectively better lives outside the Imperium whether thats non Imperium human civilizations. (yes they still exist even as of now its a HUGE galaxy) Or the Imperium worlds that have joined the t'au, their standards of living usally go up if only by a little. It should also be noted that the black ships mostly cull psykers wherever they go only taking the max number alive required to meet some quotas including those sacrificed to the Emperor, without the larger galaxy to draw from all that would change is that the black ships would just have to source pyskers closer to home, Terra or else risk raids into potentially unfriendly territory. Also as of the Great Rift's opening aren't pyskers becoming more and more common anyway? So the Astronomicons going no where anytime soon. And while I agree that the cargo cult mentality is in general going to be hard for many humans to break away from in particular I don't think it's impossible for many worlds to do so, many humans while not understanding the tech around them probably aren't all that zealous about preventing others from figuring some stuff out, especially if such insights end up benefiting them more. (safer working conditions, more efficiency, new innovations) And there'd very much would be a Byzantine facimially in this scenario, literally Guillimen's Ultramar is the SPACE Byzantine empire! And then there's the possibility of several sectors coming together to form their own empires or interstellar states ala the various rising kingdoms of post Rome Western Europe. The fact is the Imperium falling won't be the death knell for humanity, only the final fall of a corrupt, repressive, religious, dogmatic empire. Many humans can and will do better than that, the bars that low. And no, not all xenos are horrible, some are actually quite reasonable when your not trying to genocide them.
Why is Ultramar not fair to use let alone other potential post Imperium human successor states? What exactly constitutes as ""fair"" in your eyes? And yes, baring some warp disruptions other human civilizations including Ultramar benefits from the use of the astronomican, what of it? As for the black ships and feeding the Emperor sacrifices of psykers could not as powerful as he is now thanks to that boost he got the Great Rift happening just go without or even not needing nearly as many sacrifices, hell even back before all this it seemed hilariously small that apparently all it took was a thousand or so pyskers a day to support a galaxy spanning psychic entity like the Emperor, you'd think that number would be much higher. As for Terra, sure some distributions in supply may occur but I never got the impression that even Terra as overly industrialized and dependent it was on outside supplies needed the whole galaxy's worth of planets to support it, more like maybe a few sectors worth of shipments to maintain daily, vital operations with everything else basically being excess luxury tributes from the rest of the Imperium's planets. And even if it did pose a serious problem, *I say good,* that might actually motivate the custodes and the sisters of silence to be more proactive in the setting not to mention the other institutions based on Terra like the Ecclesiarchy, the Munitorum, the arbites and etc., *new challenges means new story opportunities.* As for different groups of humans developing their own ways of navigating the warp should be without the astronomicon you do know that it's not strictly necessary to warp travel, only that it provides a convenient waypoint for navigation, but doesn't make it impossible without it. Sure many of them would be lost utterly without such but many more would adapt, after all necessity is the mother of invention. If anything this is an opportunity for these successor groups to find their own unique ways if navigating the warp, sure they'd probably all be objectively inferior to the astronomicons power but not unviable. Just ask the t'au, they have managed quite well without the astronomicon (if we assume their psychic allies that yes, do exist cannot detect or use it) or even proper gellar fields so I don't see why some of the luckier and more inventive groups of humans couldn't come up with a number of makeshift solutions. True, nothing is guaranteed, I just DON'T see it nearly as hopeless as you, that said you seem pretty certain about things yourself. And while yes the Emperor suddenly dying would be catastrophic I agree, but I don't think that'll be THE end of humanity, only the beginning of another bloody chapter, the start of revolutions, the shifting of paradigms. Also not all advanced technology needs AI, you can have alot of progression without ever once messing with AI development, so there's apple room for various human civilizations to innovate on or even reinvent things long lost. Heck nothing says they can't still use servitors for their main robotic like labor! (as messed up that is)
I think this could happen just via saying parts of the imperium are splitting off. Sectors turning traitor (not chaos) would totally make sense in the Imperium Nihilus. I think we can have both. The Imperium kinda losing bits and pieces makes sense, then imperium stuff can stay as is and other bits like you said can remain.
What your suggestion here is something I loved about old Star Wars legends. In legends when the empire fell it broke up into several different petty Kingdoms and dictatorships doing something like that with the impirium coul give you greate options for home brew.
I am a die-hard imperial but I can easily see the appeal in this, honestly if I ran the company i'd have this set up in parallel to draw a whole lot of interest so the actual main timeline can progress meaningfully and resolve and we can have a significantly more diverse and interesting set for this alternate one where the imperium fell Edit: Also I realised the massive missed opportunity when the Cicatrix maledictum was formed that time went at different speeds all over the place and the Astronomicon was knocked out, that right there could have been the fracturing event and while Gulliman was able to get Segmentum Solar back in order he wasn't able to get much more than that and Ultramar into barely-working shape
Actually that's a fantastic narrative idea elf boy. It would open up a lot of better smaller stories then "and then the main force arrived to save the day." Also thanks for continuing to mention repeatedly that the imperial guard should have more then just cadians. I promise me and my Valhalla army will not bombard you with basilisks and conscripts in that order only after we give you a 5 min head start.
If the Imperium were to completely collapse and fracture into different factions, they should have it be replaced by Orks who are trying to replicate the former Imperium
The best part about this is that all these lesser states actually become stronger than the sums of their parts within the Imperium. Because the weight of Imperial Bureaucracy is gone, they can concentrate all their resources on their own stuff, work out how to work things out in a more efficient manner. Each Imperium player would be a Nation of themselves, Groups of Imperium Players in each store or play area could band together or draw the line between each other as they wished. This entire idea would actually EMBRACE the advances of 3D printing, because then players could design their own Imperial Guard Armies (with maybe instead of Lasguns maybe instead they have Mag Rifles, Instead of Space HRE Nobles you have Napoleonic Republicism IG, etc etc) Space Marine Power Marks, Xeno differences. It'd open up the door to a return to form, of True "Your Dudes". If GW invested heavily in getting a bunch of 3d Printers primed and ready, they could take custom orders from customers, it'd be a great move imho. But we both know that part won't happen.
That would actually make a good counterpoint to the immediate reaction of 'Now humanity is so doomed why should we care?' Have your book detailing the fall of the imperium point out that in a lot of places, humanity gets significantly stronger locally. (The interesting exception being Ultramar.) The entire Badab War became the mess it was because Imperial inefficency became too much and a local space marine chapter master said 'screw it'... and suddenly the sector went from 'barely holding on' to 'the most well protected area in the galaxy short of Terra' because all those resources were being used locally, without being subject to 200 layers of graft.
The thing is, I don't like 3D printed models, I find them to look worse than normal ones. I'd like to see GW make models with a focus on kitbashing in this scenario.
@@Jsay18 How is nobody having a good enough printer a skill issue? And anyway, I haven't bought anything from GW in ages, although I still play WH40K (and lots of Kill Team), I mostly put together Gunpla, because I don't like painting much, and GW's prices are too high. I'm planning on building a "titan" that's actually a heavily modified PG Zaku II.
You are basically describing Warhammer 50k: the shape of the nightmare to come, a pretty good fanfic that explain what would happen in the 10 000 years following the end of the imperium
It could be like the fall of the roman empire, with the dark eldar suddenly attacking terra itself and while they probably wouldn't do much more than destroy a few things and kidnap a few million people it could convince the rest of the imperium that it's too weak to protect them and it's better to trust their local rulers
Hyped up, but consistantly shown to be very much beatable. If anything with it collapsing many worlds and whole sectors could more readily respond to threats not having to wait for the painfully slow bureaucracy of the Imperium to catch up. Plus without the oversight of the Imperium and the Mechanicus many planets and even systems could pull their resources together and start rapidly develop their technology and especially weapons research so as to better defend themselves since they can no longer rely on a larger state for marginal project. Plus there's always mutual defensive alliances between successor factions to help cover each other's flanks against common threats.
See, I love the Imperium *too much to accept it's death* .....also would really fucking suck to see my favorite Major Faction be killed not even 3 years after I initially became aware of Warhammer and right as I am getting into the TableTop Games. Yeah, you're reasoning is great......but, if the Imperiums death sets up a 2nd and far more desperate Great Crusade from Segmentum Solar and potentially a 14th Black Crusade....THAT would be interesting. Would be absolutely awesome to see The Emperor return and try to salvage the patheticly rotting&very crispy corpse of his once Great-ish Space Empire without him becoming a Space-Cripple again. The possibilities if this is done good are amazing.....but the possibilities if it's handled shittily could very easily be the actual "End Times" for Warhammer 40k......GW has to approve this extremely carefully. Congratulations, you somehow convinced a Diehard Imperium Fanboy into thinking the Imperiums demise can actually be good for the Imperium somehow.....
See, that brings up the issue of: "Why?" If you split the Imperium again only to have him come back and unite everything again, what's the point? You just have pre-heresy Imperium. Which makes everything else pointless. Him dying? Irrelevant, he's back and he's better than ever now. The struggle of humanity fighting seemingly unwinnable odds? Well now you have the Emps, don't need to worry since you're probably gonna win. The Horus Heresy? Doesn't matter, he's gonna be resurrected anyway. The Imperium falling apart to create new more interesting factions? Who cares, they're all back and subjugated to do whatever he wants. List goes on.
Not death, fracturing. Like with Rome, the empire never ended, it just sort of disappeared one day. But before that it fractured into different states. Like let's say the imperium gave up on half the galaxy because of a massive rift. You still have the imperium and they are focused on fixing things. Then you have the human states who have lost the emperor's light on the opposite side. It keeps the imperium but allows for more stuff to happen
the problem with Big E coming back is that he's so juiced up he is a legitimate match for a chaos god (at least at the time when his whole plan was to starve them out) except he's also planted directly in the physical realm. Big E by himself should be able to kill legitimately anything in the setting, there's no way to points balance that - the only reason he even lost to horus is because he couldn't bear to hurt his own son until he finally realized he couldn't save him.
Honestly, as a Necron player, some of my favorite lore bits are Necron lords interacting with the other people of the universe. Having the imperium fall could open so many amazing doors.
I was here, and i told you i subscribed because i wanted to see you get 40k subscribers. I acomplished my mission, but i intend to stay because i'm glad to be part of the OG 40k subs and because your lore content is awesome. You deserve it man.
Idea: The Imperium still exists but in the way the Holy Roman Empire existed. Instead of it fracturing it splits into vassal domains that all swear fealty to the Emperor, but not to eachother. That way everyone can fight everyone and still be allies when they have too.
Another upside of the Imperium Fracturing is that it allows the Imperium be legitimately one of the Bad guys again. One of the most common defenses of the Imperium is that Humanity is doomed without, therefore all the awful things that the Imperium has done across its history and it’s oppressive system is justified. If a large chunk of space founded on a more egalitarian and cooperative ethos and is able to fend off Chaos, Orks, and the Nids then that disproves the fundamental assumption the Imperium is built on, all the civilizations that the Emperor destroyed was destroyed based on the Emperor’s Ego and Narcissistic belief that he was the sole way for Humanity to Survive, all the people the Imperium had killed up to this point was an act of pure madness. If that ain’t grim dark then I don’t know what is. Also it’ll deal with the Weirdos who legitimately think the Imperium is a good system that we should base our society on.
Are you referring to the Tau? Their brainwashing is just better , it is another dystopia , not too different in some places but WAYYYY worse in some others. The caste system and all. Although i would imagine the general quality of life could be better for the Tau , they are living in their "Golden Age of Technology" and humanity itself was like them during those times. The Galaxy may turn them into the monsters they were destined to be , in time.
You don't need widespread revolts and cataclysms. All you need the astronomican to lose just a tad bit of power and for a bunch of select warpstorm to make communication difficult. Give it a century and the Imperium will have fragmented in regional governments. Not because of greed or revolts, but by pure pragmatism. Some areas, without external support, will fall and be overwhelmed, while others will see their vast resources, now not sent to the far corners of the galaxy, propel them to new heights. Sector governos are already de facto sole rulers of their domains and only pay lip service to the imperium at large they don't need much of a push to forget about far away people they can't reach or call and focus on protecting their sectors. Allthough, the more i listen to your scenario: -people not wanting to have anything to do with the previous big state -people fighting over who's the true her to the previous big state -a cult of technocrats more powerful than other factions that works with all other factions and moves behind the scenes My guy, this is just Battletech
I can imagine Gulliman forming an Alliance between the Realm of Ultrama, the Tau empire and craftworld eldar. Then while trying to deal with Tyranids/Orks he gets stuck dealing with vast Amanda of Black Templar and Inquisitor ships calling him a traitor to the Emperor's legacy etc. Mo allies Mo problems
I really hope GW grows the balls to pull something like this off someday, tho the problem is that they’re also running a table top game/ video games and they kinda have to keep their main character faction around. Which sucks but makes sense
I suggested this exact idea on the 40k subreddit once and got dragged, so I'm super glad someone made a video explaining why it's a good idea in such detail. The Imperium falling doesn't mean any models or armies would necessarily go the way of the Squats prior to 2022, it just means things would get more chaotic and brutal, creating more narrative opportunities than just 'fascist humans good, demons bad.' I want human factions that aren't loyal to either. I'm so fucking sick of GW's marketing glorifying space marines and the Inquisition. 40k has room for nuance, and it would mean we get a lot more cool shit.
I'd be about it. Especially if they put out the lore in RPG form. Space Dark Ages, a whole galaxy of dangerous, neat stuff, most of which you can profitably shoot.
I know this wont be a super popular idea, but at some point in time I think a launch of 50k would be the right way to implement this kind of change. Taking a look at 10,000 years in the future, humanity fractures, everyone changes a little bit. Some factions get removed, some added. I love the idea of 30k and 40k existing together, I think taking a step into the future would be super cool.
That would actually be cool.We could see the primarchs fighting in what they think are the ideals of the emperor and Big E himself)if he is still alive) will have to find to unify humanity with his limited options that scenery has a lot of story’s
In lore the Imperium has withdrawn from the Forsarr sector leaving it pretty much up to the Raven Guard to govern, but this might be a Primarch-level move because they are withdrawing from WAAGH Garaghak, and leaving the larger and absolutely uncontrollable Octarius War to their north. No Imperial Guardin Forsarr, no visible sneaky Raven Guard to the galactic South, just a big fight up north and away from population centers.
Honestly, I'd find it fascinating if Guilliman's play is, long term, to entirely destroy the imperium as his father willed it, and create something different. That could be really cool with other primarchs returning, it'd make the Lion coming back actually fucking interesting because he could totally be like "Dude stop you already tried this once" It could definitely lead to civil war, and judging by the Watchers of the Throne series (Totally recommend btw) this might straight up be what he's doing (He dissolved the council of Terra and planted his own faithful and progressives from Ultramar)
ideally id imagine it would go down similar too rome, like how to ease the bureaucratic hell that is managing the imperium, splits into two or four separate regions but still one imperium, but then suddenly the main one that's still in control of terra gets annihilated by chaos resulting in the destruction of terra and empy this results in a civil war between the remaining imperium factions which is never concluded and just turns into a stale mate, during this civil war, power vacuums are created and filled by new factions either claiming to be the new revived imperium or something completely different yadda yadda chaos gets a mega boner from all this shit fuckery yadda yadda further shit hits the fan
I’d like to imagine the Sisters of Battle, Astra millitarum, and custodians would go together as the main imperium, and the marines and mechanicus would split off as their own factions
My biggest problem with the scenario is that it widely complicates 40k...more than it already is. 1) The imperium is the easiest thing for newcomers to latch on to, but with the fracturing of the imperium into so many individual factions, who truly becomes the face of 40k? 2) With how established of a faction the imperium is, you'd have to have a whole millenium dedicated to weakening those bonds. Yes the imperium is already filled with people that hate eachother and would want to split, but powerful factions like certain space marine chapters, custodes, ect, would try their damnest to keep some kind of order, something would have to happen to those factions in order for the imperium to split. 3) The amount of factions....the sheer effort it would take to split off all the armies of the imperium into their own full factions that can't rely as much on eachothers forces...that thought scares me, it would also make the lore more messy than it already is trying to keep track of who is friendly to who. 4) The mechanicus becoming the backround tech dealers of the setting doesn't really sound like their shtick, you would probably have to split the mechnacus up as well, with all factions having their own mechanicus faction to do all their tech shit....which again, would be painfully complicated. 4) smaller thing, but inquistors would have much less of an impactful role because part of their whole sthick is that they have some level of authority on every imperial world, meaning their stories often entail traveling across the imperium. If you were to fracture the imperium THIS much, the places inquisitors could go to would be extremely limited. I just think the change would be a bit too extreme, something that you'd probably do in the hypothetical 50k, rather than 40k. Personally I would make it a bit more of a clean split, seperating the custodes and space marines from the rest of the imperium. With the primarchs rising once more, they start to instill that "the emporer wasn't a god" mentality back into the imperium. The rest of the imperium despise this idea, and so the imperium is split into the primarch's more atheist imperium, and the echlisiarchies more dogmatic imperium. It still creates issues, but it fufills something similar while not changing TOO many factions that drastically... Sidenote, one benefit to this you didnt mention is that if the imperium wasnt the top dog anymore, the xenos factions would have more reason to fight eachother, which would be quite appreciated.
"so why do you send us this much resources?" "wait...why'd it all go for only one of you? Where's the other one?" "Hey, Big Guy, why did I have to be both short AND diabetic?" "Wait... Why'd it all go to only one of you? Where's the other one?"
You know, having actually stopped to watch the video and think about it, the fact that they haven't done this bothers me. This actually sounds like a lot of fun.
The new csm dex makes it more clear than it's ever been that the chaos side of things is already kinda like what you describe here. Fractured petty kingdoms and daemonic realms scattered across the imperium, ideologically and religiously schismatic, as capable of fighting on-another as they are of uniting. This aspect has always made chaos far more interesting than the imperium, and I'd love to see a fractured imperium for the same reasons.
I know I’m late, but with the end we could also see those criminal gangs truly come to power with different themed minis, as well as like real space pirates building their own tiny empires.
Personally I 100% agree, but personally I think an interesting route could be if more conservative elements of the Imperium and Marines for breakaway state(s) basically claiming Guilliman is a heretic.
Your Dark Souls 3 music at the end just makes me think of this topic combined with your souls like video. Endwell 40K is definitely more shooty based, one could probably make that system still work
It would be interesting if after the collapse mars became the dominant planet in the solar system. Leading to the mechanicus controlling the most important plant in the imperium terra
In fairness, the Dank Angels would realistically go to war with anybody to keep the secret of The Fallen from getting out. You could also argue that an Imperial Guard regiment could go to war with an Imperium faction if some of their leaders are under the thrall of a Genestealer Cult. Admech would go to war with anybody if it meant getting their hands on an STC fragment. Now, Banana Marines vs Custodes…that one would be difficult to explain.
Honestly I’ve had this idea for a while now and would love to see it! It would make me actually interested in playing 40k. I hope GW decides to go this route, and soon. But part of me thinks it’s unlikely, knowing them.
I like bureaucratic nonsense. I’ve written literally hundreds of pages of lore on the structures of governments I made up. I especially like unusual branch structures, like a secretarial or auditive branch alongside the classic legislative, executive, & judicial. I’ve also combined judicial and executive branches in a few different ways to make a number of semi-constitutional states. For me it’s especially fun to explore the staggering number of uncommon ways a nation can be democratic. Like Electocracies, where the vote is respected but you do not have the right to protest or otherwise oppose the government, among other things, and Pollarchies, which are oligarchies where the desperate effort to prevent the purges inseparable from such a system has resulted in an extensive system of checks, balances, and civilian freedoms.
I *love* all your Videos, the Do or Don´ts are so entertaining, and the one about the Skaven I really love too. Thank you for putting so much work in your stuff, I really appreciate it🙏 May your Pancreas keep fighting the good fight
The imperium fracturing would be a colossal fucking disaster. It would simply be introducing new “factions” introduced by the writers that would become the new Ultramarines when it comes to plot armor or the new lamenters
Yup, it wouldn't work like people think it would, it would be all about the human factions fighting each other and all the xenos would get pushed even further to the side, just showing up as occasional boogeyman. Essentially you would be getting Star Wars and Battletech mushed together.
This would also almost justify the return of primarchs, if each primarch is now an emperor of his own realm, they might do less to overshadow other characters or just be interesting enough that it doesn’t matter that they’re overshadowing everyone else in their chapter
I know I'm late on commenting on this, but screw it, I just got into the franchise almost entirely on lore this year and I love the Necrons. The most interesting thing that could happen to them upon the Imperium shattering is some random faction of humanity that decides to be chill with them might be exactly the boost they need to begin learning how to reverse the robot skeleton process. Imagine if the necrons through humanity found a perfect way to be their insane robot selves and have emotions beyond regret again. Imagine an entire human faction who used the tech and became a human equivalent of a necron and went full in on that. Imagine if it were a chapter of space marines and all of a sudden we have robotic skeleton astartes somehow. They could bullshit it. And that wouldn't even completely alter the necron vibe because a good half of them love being more robot than actually alive so none of the current necrons would actually halt out. If anything it just means the necrons who do opt into having feelings again would do some either 800 IQ silly move or something stupid like instantly falling to any of the chaos gods. There could unironically be "lone chaos androids" again, but probably more interesting. Just imagine a metallic Lord of Change glowing the perfect teal halfway between necron green and Tzeentch blue.
Gonna be honest. My orks named “THE BRAIN BLASTAZ” who have such a deep hate for Tzeench they have been known to broker alliances with Oomies, Da do goodaz, and at one point through pure diplomacy mastery. Balanka Bum Wizza yeeted his fleet against a chaos attack on eldar fleets. Which is how he got a wraith bone tooth that was supposed to be a sword but he broke it almost as soon as he left Basically he’d prolly start working with a small chunk of the imperium
If the imperium falls I think a combined human necrons faction should come into existence. The necrons could be like an undead aristocracy to the unwashed masses of human slaves, who are occasionally abducted so the necrons can experiment on them and figure out how to steal their bodies
The Necron tomb worlds could be woken up at a faster pace without the United Imperium being a threat, which could lead to development with the Silent Kings plan of a unified necron race once more.
Honestly I’ve always loved the idea of the Imperium devolving into civil war and warring states so I say, go ahead! Let the Imperium fracture and enter an even darker period as brother fights brother while the myriad of threats slowly tighten the noose around humanity’s neck!
I've seen many of your videos but the Algorythm brought this one to my attention today. You are now staring at almost 200k subscribers, Guilliman might start to get jealous.
While this would never happen, I would absolutely love and it would actually get me into the WH40K a lot more. I despise the Imperium with a passion. It's not cool or badass, it's just stifling and uncreative, both in the lore and outside of it. By having the Imperium finally fall apart, humanity will finally be able to thrive and prosper. That's why I created my own imperial guard/space marines army for my tabletop collection, that serves a sector which rebelled against the Imperium and are ruled by a Republic. The Imperium may in theory be able to bring overwhelming force to bear to crush this uprising, but every time they brought a significant force, the rebel sector much better and more efficient bureaucracy meant that the two forces were equal at best for the Imperium, and if the Imperium wished to bring sufficient forces to actually overwhelm the Republic through sheer numbers, they'd have to leave other fronts unprotected. And so due to the sheer incompetence of the Imperium, what started as a small local uprising has over the centuries grown to become a full on independent state. They renounce the cult of the emperor, are run by democratic vote and they focus on fighting chaos through education and understanding of the threat it is to the population of their nation. Thanks to the much higher quality of life and education on the matter, Chaos is much less of an issue than in the Imperium, although Tzeench and Slaneeshi cults are still sometimes active and require quick response from the state. Furthermore, without the stifling bureaucracy, archaic laws and crushing taxes of the Imperium, the sector has prospered and become significantly stronger against Xeno and Chaos invasions, improving technology and tactics. Was this started due to my hate of the imperium aesthetic and grimderp combined by my love for the imperial guard? Yes, absolutely. Does this go against any established canon and lore? Yes as well, but I don't give two shits about that. I simply want my imperial guard to have actually good weapons. I want to see main battle tanks that are not the piece of junk that is the Leman Russ,.I want to have my guardsman equipped with technology that actually works and not thrown against enemies that clearly outmatch them. And while I am very much content with my fanon, I would 100% support such a direction of the lore, even if I know it will never happen. Too many people love the idiotic, incompetent Imperium.
For my 2 cents on the internet, I don't feel the need for the Empire to break. It just needs to actually... Lose every now and then. Let the Necrons take back some of their worlds (as they supposedly have), lose some more to the T'au because they're too busy fighting Nids, lose some of those fights to the Nids, bam there you go. (Edit: Oh yeah, Genestealers do something too I guess... But then they get eaten by Nids) Orks and Eldar I'm mostly fine where they are (personally) but for sure they need some actual wins in the galaxy too. GW's gotta stop pretending they're shaking things up when the status quo is maintained over 10,000 years. PS: Congrats on 40k Pancreas! You deserve it! A very cozy and entertaining 40k channel I love a lot!
by the way GW is going, the Imperium is ending with the tyranids arriving on Earth, the Imperium splitting into two or 42k of small empires, but the tyranids would be destroyed by the cool guys in the galaxy. This is my prophecy based on the video and current events of Warhammer40k
I love your videos man. Great content, good voice cadence to listen to, nostalgia-filled Age of Mythology soundtracks in the background. Congrats on 40k subs and here’s to 50k+! 🍻
Mr PNW, ive been watching for you for so long i cant remember when i started. ive enjoyed all of your videos and the humor always brightens my day. congratulations on hitting 40k, heres to the future 🥂
This is what I've been saying for a while. Splintered human factions, with different beliefs and technology and doctrine, would be amazing, imagine having a human faction similar to the UNSC, with the professionalism of an actual modern day military without the religious zealotry, and with actual human empathy.
Honestly I'd love to see the Imperium fracture. Regardless of whether the Emperor comes back or not. Instability, civil war and full upheaval of the status quo is great drama.
Honestly, I just want something to actually happen in 40k and for the plot to move forward. Hell, just do a time skip of a thousand years or so. Personally I wouldn't really mind the 40k end times either as long as it ends with the T'au being the only ones not stupid enough to tear each other to threads and as a result prospering.
One thing that this idea would be beneficial towards would be the Farsight vs Ethereals plot line and finally pushing that plot line forward. Their seems to two reason why progression in that plot line has slowed a bit and why most works released now a days are about fleshing out already established lore, (though I am still a fan of Phil Kelly's work in that regard). The first reason is the fact that although Farsight has sworn off any loyalty to the Ethereal caste, he still feel some sense of loyalty to the main empire and its people as a whole, which is both why he hasn't taken any military action against the Ethereals and even came to the aid of the 3rd sphere expansion when they were about to be crushed. The second reason is hinted that he is currently on a secret road trip across the galaxy to not only to do research on the warp and chaos but also on the larger state of the galaxy with its various players and politics. The Farsight Enclaves seemed to be waiting for there leader to come back at the moment. By having the Imperium shatter, Farsight could be in a place in the galaxy where he begins to witness this on his travels. Since Farsight knows more about chaos than any other Tau he could have a moment where he thinks, "oh shit! The bulwark against the Demons has fallen apart!". He could rush back to the Enclaves and realize that they only way to keep his Enclaves and all those who have sworn loyalty to his banner safe is to start expanding the Enclaves territory, resources, power and influence in it local area immediately. The Ethereals by contrast, wouldn't get the information about the imperium shattering because the news would travel more slowly to them. So when they start hearing about Farsights new activities and the Enclaves having their own sphere of expansion, they might falsely think, "oh no! Farsight is preparing to finally attack and conquer the Empire!". It could cause them to start ramping up military action against the Enclaves and turn the cold war between the Farsight Enclaves and the main Tau empire into a hot war. Also we could get more character moments between Farsight and Commander Shadowsun. Hell, maybe we could finally bring in the eternal third wheel of Puretides students into the drama that has been going on, Shas'O Kais.
The best part of this is that whatever part of the galaxy gets the emperor is easily the most defended for the simple fact all the sisters will immediatly flock to that portion and defend it lol
It would likely create a faction of religious loyalists dedicated to the emperor though it likely wouldn't mean it would be the most defended since it now wouldn't have the entire resources of the imperium that Terra has now.
To everyone who might think that this is just the incredibly biased opinion of a Xenos player:
Yes.
Can you do the Harlequins? Complete the Eldar Simp Trinity.
But wouldn’t Guiliman just crush everyone. He has Ultramar. Maybe Lion coming back might change things.
you have fair points, but at least we didn't murderfuck slaneesh into existence and so high up on ourselves that we massacre planets for being on a tomb world without you know, INFORMING FIRST. but hey, heresy kill xenos right?
love, a guardsmen
(PS: this is all a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way)
Ya know, one day I do hope you do a 'which chaos god' is the best video, as well as 'what warhammer character is the best'. My vote for both would be Slaanesh and Fulgrim. Say what you will about being possessed and guilt-ridden over the brother he killed, Fulgrim by far is the living the best life out of any warhammer character. he basically lives on a planet of endless pleasure, he's incredibly powerful (killed 2 primarchs ), he's immortal, and he doesn't have to worry about his future or the continuation of humanity...or anything really. All he has to do is lounge around being serviced by his minions in boundless pleasure, and whenever he wants to mix things up, he can strike out into battle and fight anyone he wants, inflicting pain upon himself and the enemy (and given how much enjoyment he constantly feels, the pain might actually be a healthy change of pace). He doesn't have to worry about the tyranids eating the galaxy or the endless toil of the imperium of man. he's basically living in 'paradise' at this point. Even if he is killed he'll just get revived in the warp, and then he gets to experience all the 'endless pleasure' all over again. compared to his brothers Angron (who is basically a brainless brute who gets to chop off heads like its his new 24 hour day job), Mortarion (who smells like literal piss and shit all the time, and whose senses are numbed to the point where he can barely feel anything anymore), and Magnus (who is essentially another workaholic who has to constant stress out over the trillions of plots that he is constantly planning). Fulgirm, on the other hand, is just a happy stoner that gets to chill all day and be massaged and waited on by countless servants until the end of fucking time. lol
I relate xD
Theory: if the Emperor were to wake up, the "Imperium" wouldn't thrive. He would start anew and bring it all to ruin so he can rebuilt the great Galaxy expanding empire he always wanted. It's easier to paint over a white canvas than to correct every little mistake ever
That, and awakening the Emperor would probably mean killing him first, which would depower the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne, so Terra would most likely go poof and the warp storms wouldn't leave much Imperium left anyway (kinda like a second Age of Strife)
I disagree, he’d have to kill way too much of the Imperium to “wipe the slate clean”. By the time he finished there’s no way he could stop the onslaught of both Tyranids and Orks from crushing everything. Only so many worlds fit for human habitation without aliens destroying them, and that’s not even getting into the various exterminatus needed for said slate wiping.
I mean, the point of a galactic empire was to see humanity reach its full potential so wiping out all the humans seems a bit counter intuitive
I mean that’s fair. The emperor was just ego tripping for the most part while making the imperium so like it makes sense he’d do just as bad of a job the first time
Given what the Emperor seems to be about, I imagine he would take a more practical approach. Unfortunately, the Imperium under him probably wouldn’t change much until things were in a much more workable state.
Theory: The terminus decree is just instructions to summon a min max stellaris player to “Micro” the empire
“I assure you, Emperor, building pleasure domes on every planet in the Imperium is CRUCIAL to the survival of mankind.”
@@pancreasnowork9939 _Slaanesh Liked this_
Or, it's cheat codes to murder everyone.
40k is stellaris but with LoversLab mods installed
@@pancreasnowork9939and the Stellaris player would actually be correct
In all seriousness, this would be a great way to reintroduce Exodites as a modern faction. In multiple stories the Exodites have been shown willing to cooperate with humans and I think this would be a great opportunity to create a hybrid Eldar/Human faction. Previous treaties always got killed by some inquisition force who got a whiff of xenos, and with a fractured imperium, Exodites could reasonably resurface in somewhat cooperative force with humans. There is a city if AoS that does something similar, combining human tech with wood elf nature for some cool ascetics.
And let’s be real, dinosaurs strapped with lazcannons and bolters sounds badass
This actually sounds great
God I wish they’d get their own army so bad. The Asrai in Fantasy were so fucking dope and it sucks they’ve got no 40K counterpart in a meaningful sense.
To some extent I get it because in a sci fi setting a faction whose whole schtick is “never leaves their planet” isn’t ideal for a sci fi setting but there’s still potential with the webway for them to be their own thing.
@@pancreasnowork9939 if the Dark Eldar can be based out of 1 city, then the Exodites can definitely use the web way to be a relevant force. #Exodites4warhammer
I just want space elves riding dinosaurs with lasers
It would be extremely funny if Abaddon finally won, proclaimed himself the next emperor of man, then immediately most of the other chaos factions went "up yours, buddy!" and went back to fighting each other.
That. Is the goal. Only failbadon has any illusions that he can hold his empire.
you finally did it, you truly are the Warhammer 40,000
Thank you Dick Assley
He didn't say that.
Why would the emperor trust Horus when his last name is literally Heresy??
my favorite moment in the books is when the emperor said "ahhh it feels good to finally be off that damn throne, now bring me all 40 thousand warhammers."
@@jart1984 gotta love when the Big E stood up, said "It's time to Warhammer" and 40ked on eveyrone
If the imperium falls i can finally get a fully realized mechanicus chad nation state.
You know Stygies VIII is immediately creating a Xeno-Human tech hydrid army and daring whatever is left of the Ordo Xenos to fight them in the parking lot.
@@mrsniffles5417 i would pay to see that bum fights video
Maybe we can have some actual space communists instead of just the Tau.
@@mrsniffles5417 Yeah. If Stygies VIII was allowed to incorporate xenos tech since the imperium is gone, they'd not bother trying to be sneaky anymore, they could kill almost anyone.
@@seekingabsolution1907
T'au are not communist, but yeah, like Pancreas said with the Imperium gone maybe we could FINALLY see prominent INTERSTELLAR human factions that try to recreate or even rediscover the various OTHER governmental systems we have invented over the millennium other than SPACE feudalism/aristocracy. Imagine a secretive but popular movement of manufactorum workers from across a whole sector actually manages to stage successful overthrows of their planet's aristocratic rulers, likely with some outside help (preferably no Chaos involved, atleast not in a big way please) and taking advantage of the confusion from the collapse of the Imperium happining around the same time.
I want Guilliman to be the cause of the imperium fracturing. He wrote a book about how no one should ever have as much power as Horus, then assumes more power than Horus ever did and then starts bending every space marine chapter in the galaxy to his will based on self given authority. Love him or hate him I could see this primaris replacement scheme causing a civil war between Guilliman and Cawl’s new order and all the hardliners they’ve been trampling over
You keep forgetting that he's bending a wretched corpse of an Imperium into something that can be a actually governed
Didnt the Black Templars kill all of their primaris marines?
@@mrhyde4732
No that would be the Dark Angels
@@maksymilians931 I thought the templars did that too...wishful thinking i guess
@@maksymilians931 That happend Valrak made a video about it
The Mechanicus pulling a ComStar sounds absolutely horrifying and I want it
Remember to pay your bills fucko
Or some people making their own tech.
I actually have been running a homebrew campaign where the imperium fell and fractured with two successor states being the most powerful of the imperial remnants. One run by the Ecclesiarchy claiming to be the true and rightful heirs to the imperium. They still control the inquisition, some space marine fanatics, like the Black Templars and the Grey Knights, and most of the Astra Militarum. And the other is the Kingdom of Ultramar run by Guilliman. Most space marine chapters would pledge their allegiance to him and he would form the Royal Army from PDF’s and Guard regiments that plaedged allegiance to him. Guilliman also outlawed the worship of the emperor, and promises to better the lives of humans and vows to carry out his father’s grand plan of uniting humanity and claiming the stars
The funniest part about outlawing the worship of the emperor is that faith in Big E legitimately provides protection against chaos just because enough people think it does
curious, since the Adepta Sororitas for example have many of their number greatly admiring Guilliman, how would you handle an Adepta Sororitas order siding with Guilliman? Would they still receive the blessings of the emperor that they are so renowned for?
@@M3RUL3Z you know, that’s a really good question. None of my buddies play Adepta Sororitas so I never thought of it. I’m gonna have to get back to you on that one. What are your thoughts?
@@M3RUL3Z They admire guilliman because he is the son of the emperor
Space nuns draw their power from devotion to Big E, essentially the emperors presence in the warp is so strong that living saints like Celestine are an equivalent to daemon princes
So they would side with whoever they thought had the emperors divine mandate and would likely see guilliman denying the emperors godhood as heresy
@@SWProductions100 That’s pretty good. Makes sense too. I like it
Having read a lot of Dan Abnett stuff, where rival Guard regiments end up fighting each other or Inquisitors go after each other for real and imagined crimes . . . I feel like the Imperium is constantly in a borderline state of civil war anyways. Maybe the factional infighting isn't quite to the level that you see at your local gamestore, but the tabletop isn't supposed to perfectly match the lore anyways. (After all there's supposed to be 1,000 marines per most chapter and most humans will rarely see the, but you wouldn't know it from how many marine armies there are). Also I can't find the link but I did find a PDF where someone made a list of reasons Imperial factions might fight each other to justify these tabletop skirmishes.
The factions seem to be written in a way that you can justify ANY tabletop matchup.
That might not be strictly true but I can’t think of any right now that don’t make sense.
@@reginlief1
Hell even *tyranid vs tyranid* can be sorta justified because say a small hive fleet tendril somehow became severed from the hivemind's synapse and started to act more erratic and independent, eventually bumping into another still connected tendril only for them to try and eat each other (basically space battles) or say it intercepts a connected hive fleet that's in the process of well...eating an entire world, so this rouge fleet sends its own hordes of severed tyranid forms into battle against the invading fleet's ground forces. (with the traditional table top or other strategy games)
Theres also dawn of War.
And the months of shame where the grey knights and inquisition tried to extinct the space wolves for the heinous act of not wanting civilians and veterans who risked their lives to stop HELL, from being unceremoniously euthanized
In third edition codexes there was a section at the end explaining why this faction would want to fight all the others or even themselves, there were things like suspecting each other of chaos taint, receiving contradicting orders from the administratum, both claiming right to posses a relic...
Maybe the PDF was taken from there, it added a lot of flavor imo.
@@navilluscire2567 i personally like the idea of one hive fleet deeming it necessary to consume another, maybe because it thinks it will become something greater or that it’s methods are better and therefore more important to fuel than the other’s.
I can see the Black Templars and their gang of sycophants waging holy war against the newly reformed Mechanicum while Ultramar and the T’au Empire form an uneasy alliance to fight against the Tyranids. Meanwhile the Sororitas and the Custodes reconvene on Terra to try to reclaim the Imperium as the emperor’s truest servants.
I honestly think it is a given that Ultramar in a fractured Galaxy would Ally with the Farsight Enclave and eldar like Eldrad Ulthran.
@@Sakura_Matouor everyone they can get, really
One downside I could see is that Imperium fans would get PISSED! They're the most popular faction in the setting so if they go down there would likely be massive backlash and people may decide to not spend money on the game even if they add new human stuff.
Not saying I disagree, just that it's something that would likely happen
Necron and Eldar players: Join the club
But then the Imperium could still exist, centered on Terra and, perhaps, a fair chunk of Segmentum Solar. It'd just be... weaker. Like how the Galactic Empire fractured into numerous smaller "Empires" in Star Wars Legends.
@@theinquisitor8112 honestly, it’s the best of both worlds. Just because the imperium shatters, doesn’t mean the imperium has to go away completely. You can keep everything as is, and just write up a story about it falling apart into warring states with more unique flavor that’s still human. I think it’s a great idea
Don't have to axe the codexes or factions, just have a four way war between Gulliman, Dorn/Lion/Russ, Ecclesiarchy-Overtaken-by-Inquisition, and AdMech-who-want-to-bring-back-Void-Dragon. Have each codex apply rules for each of these four new Imperial successors that make them no longer "Battle Brothers," have every faction schism around four central human powers without ditching the models, rules, or lore if someone writes it right.
Space Marines are the biggest faction in the game overall and they still made primaris for no reason and divided that fanbase.
It's always nice to see someone talk about the imperium ending, but not having humanity just die off right after!
Yeah, there's literally way too many humans for the species to just suddenly die of if the Imperium collapsed, sure humans would probably never again dominate the galaxy but honestly I think that's a good thing. Atleast it would force writers to pay attention to various other xenos factions rising in the midst of the confusion of the fall of the ULTRA xenophobic empire they hated.
Yeah whenever people talk about the emporium collapsing i always envisioned it as a star League scenario in which successor states would immediately pop up.
@@IronWarrior_69
*"Emporium.."* Now I'm imagining a public square space the size of a small nation on some weirdly beautiful hive world's well...hive city full of cute little shops, the interesting hook is that the planet was on the Eye of Terror side of the Great Rift and as such is among the thousands if not millions of worlds that were cut off from the remaining Imperium. Except instead of becoming some murder filled hellhole like the old propaganda said would happen the planet's populace, the masses staged a successful takeover of their planet from the clutches of the old hierarchical elites that once ruled them. They since became an trading hub were all manner of weird goods are traded and people engaging in what would've been under the Imperium's iron boot considered extremely heretical relationships between humans and various xenos civilizations and even other human successor factions all come to this plesently refreshing little world to well...trade with many of the shops being run by various alien species some of which not even the Ordo Xenos have heard of, from t'au *"unsanctioned merchants" (their Rouge traders)* to yes even *"ork pawnshops" (because yes!)* can be found amongst the stalls and spaces!
You're all fucking heretics
@@navilluscire2567 Since Humanity survived the Dark Ages the fall of the Imperium would be a walk in the park. Not individually but with the IOM gone many things would get better once they are "past the bottleneck".
Personally, as a Tau player, the fact that they are totally screwed is why I like them. They live short lives in a galaxy where everyone wants to kill them only to be promised nothing in death besides knowing that they fought for what they believed in, even though it never had a chance. If that’s not Grimdark… idk what is. Throw in it being lead by a self aware AI clone and Farsight being one bad day away from screaming “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD” as he runs into battle…there ya go
Self aware AI clone wot wot?
@@PS-cu2cv Pretty sure he means Ob Lotai 9-0. It's an Ai piloting a battlesuit, but it's just an engram of the pilot.
He is talking about Aun'va ya simpletons, guy's been a solid-light sentient hologram since agrellan a few centuries ago... which is actually much smarter than what the imperium is doing still, at least our dead leader lives on trough an AI modeled after his actual personality and doesnt require 1000 sacrifices of potentially useful assets every day
Honestly, I think there is some great possibility to make both the normal Tao and the Enclaves more Grimdark without actually making everything chaos fault. The Tau empire is pretty easy, just lean a bit more into the mind control, maybe a secret police a la the Dai Le (there is no war with the enclaves) and for Farsight, well ... maybe the enclaves had quite the large population before he showed up and had the idea to undertake a great leap forwards ... also, it would also be verry easy to have actually been right about everything if you also the moral authority to rewrite the curiculum to fit the bill (what do you mean the undersupplied force had no chance of making it? They were the verry vanguard of our cause! its just their comander was an athereal agent undermining our most glorious (crossed out rebellion) revolution! Now go back to your textbooks missing some pages because the athereals thaugt wasting paper with their imperialistic formulas was a good idea)
So yeah, mind control normal Tau and an enclave with the political and developmental ideas of mao (add a "he is our great leader" if you really want to spice it up) and an attitude towards their armies like the early french revolution, reframe earlier books as propaganda and we have ourselves some verry Grimdark Tau right there
@@emileo5024 The 'mind control' idea is so one dimensional and cringe, 40K can do so much better than that. The propaganda idea may be decent, but that already exists through 'the greater good'. There's no need to over-write it and make it convoluted.
If this would happen I would love for planets to still think the imperium exists even though it collapsed like 100 years ago, just because it never did anything for them anyway
That is the most warhammer 40k thing to happen in this scenario and I love it.
**hears that the Imperium is long gone**
Ex Imperial world citizen: Oh? Really now? That is bloody well sad...welp back to my back breaking labour in some dark, stale, forsaken mineshaft so my planet's overlords can afford their huge banquets in their high spires!
Imagine a planet still pay its tithe long after the imperium is gone. Due to the absolute fuckups that is the imperium's bureaucarcy. Shit just get sent to planets already dead/dominated by xenos and chaos and not heard from again. But nobody even care because back then, it's the same.
They might even like it as the tithe wont increase anytime soon
Legend becomes myth, myth becomes reality when the tax man comes a calling.
Just like the emperor.
Big E: "I'm awake! What the fuck have y'all been doing. I'm out."
The Imperium: Umm... infighting begins...
"I told you he wasn't god!" "He's testing us!" "Hail the Omnissah!" "Dad's back but went to get milk or something!"
Lorgar would shit himself if he came back
@@pancreasnowork9939 I am pretty sure Lorgar would flip sides if The Emperor told him three simple words. "You were right." Which honestly would make a comedically giant mess of Chaos.
If big E 'woke up' that by itself would spell the end of the imperium. Turns out your space empire needs to be able to travel through space so the astronomicon is pretty important.
@@Sorain1Itd be a coming to Jesus moment to receive the vindication hes always wanted
The Hammer number has been achieved.
In all honestly, great work my dude, glad to see your growth!
Guileman should just kill the Emperor and get Cawl to punt Holy Terra into intergalactic space using the teleporter tech Mars stole during the War of the Beast.
Operation: Yeet Terra?
Or in High Gothic: Yeetus Throneworld Deletus?
Nice plan, but what about the sun?
@@mrsniffles5417 what ABOUT the sun?
@@andrewnewell1142 Ahriman detected.
The sun provides warmth and light which are quite helpful, plus there's the sentimental value, it'd be a shame to leave it behind.
A big story opportunity would be seeing the perspective of a newly independent planet/system desperately weighing its options on who (if anyone) it's going to ally with. Say there's a planet that's within spitting distance of both Tau space, a Marine fortress world, and a Craftworld is hanging out in the area for the moment. The planet's leader's may want to take a shot at remaining autonomous, but a Waagh or chaos fleet is approaching the system. Do they try to make a stand on their own and retain their newfound freedom? Will they submit to the Marines in exchange for protection, returning to the oppression they only just escaped? Maybe they'll take a chance with the Tau, putting all their chips on the bet that they'll be kinder overlords. Or maybe some madman will suggest straight up abandoning the planet by (somehow) striking a deal with the Craftworlders for a mass evacuation. There could be all sorts of debates or even full-on infighting about what to do, and you could make all kinds of cool outcomes.
Do keep in mind just because a world or even whole star systems are now independent from the Imperium doesn't mean the majority of the peoples of those places are free, the oppression from the aristocracy or human dynastys that have ruled over the masses for thousands of years with the Imperium never doing anything about them and their abuses towards the citizenry. So when a planet is deciding to whom they'll allie with 11 out of 12 times it's likely only an elite few or an oligarchy or despot dictators deciding this not the masses, nothing really democratic whether directly or indirectly (i.e. republics) about it.
@@navilluscire2567 dawn of war /battlefleet gothic {SW Battlefront in warhammer}
@@navilluscire2567,
If by an elite few you mean hundreds of nobles trying to figure out how not to upset tens of thousands of lesser ones then yes, and those aren't even hive world numbers. No man rules alone, democracy or not. Even despot dictators will have to answer to someone, albeit informally. Plenty of room for debate and infighting.
I love this idea purely because of the possibility of Dark Angels and Space Wolves taking their feud to the next level, which of course would be followed by the furries getting annihilated. Congrats on the 40k my man, I’m very happy I stumbled upon your channel and I’m happy I can support you!
You know the moment that GW did this, they'd just MAGIC the emperor back to being a living man just so they can do the great crusade 2
Then they'd fart out, like, 30+ books covering that crusade and squeeze all the hype they can out of the Emperor returning (and then they'd use "The Emperor has returned!" as a selling point for over a decade lol)
@@MEXUS. Jeez we should apply to be GW salesmen we'd earn them so much money. And ourselves so much money
@@MEXUS. how good is the horus heresy book overall? There's so many books. I thought one piece was plenty or hajimi ippo was alot.
I mean, tbf if they're going to bring the Emperor back, this would probably be a good way to do it imo. Like, the emperor finally wakes up, but JUST too late to save the Imperium.
This is how the Roman Empire went down. Poor Robobo is basically managing Byzantium at this point.
Damn, that's actually a great historical call-back and kind of true..
Honestly even as an imperium fan I love this idea, the idea of dozens of mini imperium's allow for all different kinds of imperium ranging from truly dark and horrible to far more benevolent, not to mention the idea of Mini-imperiums allying themselves with different Xeno factions could be fun. Maybe the Blood Ravens could finally admit their true chapter master is Trazyn and we could get a whole faction of Digganobz who fight alongside orks because fuck it it sounds cool.
I love how Mechanicus music started playing once you mentioned that Mankind should still survive.
It just felt like “Yeah. You know these guys are gonna go apeshit on the planets of the now former imperium the moment they realize they don’t need to pretend the Emperor and Omnissiah are the same thing anymore.”
Very interesting idea though personally I think there’s another rather simple reason that could give way to the Imperium’s fracturing: the death of the Emperor.
Yes, he’s already dead as he’s a corpse on a throne but at least there’s something there for people to worship. So, what if one day all that psychic energy being funnelled into the Emperor by the sacrificed psykers simply became too much and the Emperor’s corpse burnt up/disintegrated? Nobody on the throne, nobody to unite the Imperium any more. Are we really to believe that none of the Primarchs would attempt to lay claim to the throne as his heir? They’re all brothers so have it go full breakup akin to what happened with Alexander’s generals following his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire in that sense, with differing primarchs vying to be the next Emperor.
Heck, want to go really out there with this? I’m hearing lots of chatter that the Emperor’s Children will be given their own range in 10th edition so why not tie this in to this clash for power?
Have Fulgrim come back full snake-daemon form but claiming that his corruption should not outweigh his claim as the Emperor’s true heir. After all the ECs were the first chapter to wear the aquila and it’s pretty much in their name so why not work with that as a reason to bring them back into the setting in a big way?
I'd pay good thrones to see that play out!
@Morgan Allen
I disagree with this.
One just because the Imperium itself as any sort of coherent entity is gone doesn't mean humanity is doomed to extinction, atleast not ANY time soon, there's literally WAY too many humans for that to ever be a problem. What it will mean is that humans will no longer be the dominant force in the galaxy which isn't a bad thing.
Also humans can and do have objectively better lives outside the Imperium whether thats non Imperium human civilizations. (yes they still exist even as of now its a HUGE galaxy) Or the Imperium worlds that have joined the t'au, their standards of living usally go up if only by a little.
It should also be noted that the black ships mostly cull psykers wherever they go only taking the max number alive required to meet some quotas including those sacrificed to the Emperor, without the larger galaxy to draw from all that would change is that the black ships would just have to source pyskers closer to home, Terra or else risk raids into potentially unfriendly territory. Also as of the Great Rift's opening aren't pyskers becoming more and more common anyway? So the Astronomicons going no where anytime soon.
And while I agree that the cargo cult mentality is in general going to be hard for many humans to break away from in particular I don't think it's impossible for many worlds to do so, many humans while not understanding the tech around them probably aren't all that zealous about preventing others from figuring some stuff out, especially if such insights end up benefiting them more. (safer working conditions, more efficiency, new innovations)
And there'd very much would be a Byzantine facimially in this scenario, literally Guillimen's Ultramar is the SPACE Byzantine empire! And then there's the possibility of several sectors coming together to form their own empires or interstellar states ala the various rising kingdoms of post Rome Western Europe.
The fact is the Imperium falling won't be the death knell for humanity, only the final fall of a corrupt, repressive, religious, dogmatic empire. Many humans can and will do better than that, the bars that low. And no, not all xenos are horrible, some are actually quite reasonable when your not trying to genocide them.
Why is Ultramar not fair to use let alone other potential post Imperium human successor states? What exactly constitutes as ""fair"" in your eyes? And yes, baring some warp disruptions other human civilizations including Ultramar benefits from the use of the astronomican, what of it?
As for the black ships and feeding the Emperor sacrifices of psykers could not as powerful as he is now thanks to that boost he got the Great Rift happening just go without or even not needing nearly as many sacrifices, hell even back before all this it seemed hilariously small that apparently all it took was a thousand or so pyskers a day to support a galaxy spanning psychic entity like the Emperor, you'd think that number would be much higher. As for Terra, sure some distributions in supply may occur but I never got the impression that even Terra as overly industrialized and dependent it was on outside supplies needed the whole galaxy's worth of planets to support it, more like maybe a few sectors worth of shipments to maintain daily, vital operations with everything else basically being excess luxury tributes from the rest of the Imperium's planets.
And even if it did pose a serious problem, *I say good,* that might actually motivate the custodes and the sisters of silence to be more proactive in the setting not to mention the other institutions based on Terra like the Ecclesiarchy, the Munitorum, the arbites and etc., *new challenges means new story opportunities.*
As for different groups of humans developing their own ways of navigating the warp should be without the astronomicon you do know that it's not strictly necessary to warp travel, only that it provides a convenient waypoint for navigation, but doesn't make it impossible without it. Sure many of them would be lost utterly without such but many more would adapt, after all necessity is the mother of invention.
If anything this is an opportunity for these successor groups to find their own unique ways if navigating the warp, sure they'd probably all be objectively inferior to the astronomicons power but not unviable. Just ask the t'au, they have managed quite well without the astronomicon (if we assume their psychic allies that yes, do exist cannot detect or use it) or even proper gellar fields so I don't see why some of the luckier and more inventive groups of humans couldn't come up with a number of makeshift solutions.
True, nothing is guaranteed, I just DON'T see it nearly as hopeless as you, that said you seem pretty certain about things yourself. And while yes the Emperor suddenly dying would be catastrophic I agree, but I don't think that'll be THE end of humanity, only the beginning of another bloody chapter, the start of revolutions, the shifting of paradigms.
Also not all advanced technology needs AI, you can have alot of progression without ever once messing with AI development, so there's apple room for various human civilizations to innovate on or even reinvent things long lost. Heck nothing says they can't still use servitors for their main robotic like labor! (as messed up that is)
I think this could happen just via saying parts of the imperium are splitting off. Sectors turning traitor (not chaos) would totally make sense in the Imperium Nihilus. I think we can have both. The Imperium kinda losing bits and pieces makes sense, then imperium stuff can stay as is and other bits like you said can remain.
What your suggestion here is something I loved about old Star Wars legends. In legends when the empire fell it broke up into several different petty Kingdoms and dictatorships doing something like that with the impirium coul give you greate options for home brew.
I am a die-hard imperial but I can easily see the appeal in this, honestly if I ran the company i'd have this set up in parallel to draw a whole lot of interest so the actual main timeline can progress meaningfully and resolve and we can have a significantly more diverse and interesting set for this alternate one where the imperium fell
Edit: Also I realised the massive missed opportunity when the Cicatrix maledictum was formed that time went at different speeds all over the place and the Astronomicon was knocked out, that right there could have been the fracturing event and while Gulliman was able to get Segmentum Solar back in order he wasn't able to get much more than that and Ultramar into barely-working shape
Actually that's a fantastic narrative idea elf boy. It would open up a lot of better smaller stories then "and then the main force arrived to save the day."
Also thanks for continuing to mention repeatedly that the imperial guard should have more then just cadians. I promise me and my Valhalla army will not bombard you with basilisks and conscripts in that order only after we give you a 5 min head start.
If the Imperium were to completely collapse and fracture into different factions, they should have it be replaced by Orks who are trying to replicate the former Imperium
The best part about this is that all these lesser states actually become stronger than the sums of their parts within the Imperium. Because the weight of Imperial Bureaucracy is gone, they can concentrate all their resources on their own stuff, work out how to work things out in a more efficient manner.
Each Imperium player would be a Nation of themselves, Groups of Imperium Players in each store or play area could band together or draw the line between each other as they wished. This entire idea would actually EMBRACE the advances of 3D printing, because then players could design their own Imperial Guard Armies (with maybe instead of Lasguns maybe instead they have Mag Rifles, Instead of Space HRE Nobles you have Napoleonic Republicism IG, etc etc) Space Marine Power Marks, Xeno differences. It'd open up the door to a return to form, of True "Your Dudes". If GW invested heavily in getting a bunch of 3d Printers primed and ready, they could take custom orders from customers, it'd be a great move imho.
But we both know that part won't happen.
That would actually make a good counterpoint to the immediate reaction of 'Now humanity is so doomed why should we care?' Have your book detailing the fall of the imperium point out that in a lot of places, humanity gets significantly stronger locally. (The interesting exception being Ultramar.) The entire Badab War became the mess it was because Imperial inefficency became too much and a local space marine chapter master said 'screw it'... and suddenly the sector went from 'barely holding on' to 'the most well protected area in the galaxy short of Terra' because all those resources were being used locally, without being subject to 200 layers of graft.
The thing is, I don't like 3D printed models, I find them to look worse than normal ones. I'd like to see GW make models with a focus on kitbashing in this scenario.
@@henryfleischer404 Skill Issue. Begging to big brother GW will only beggar you.
@@Jsay18 How is nobody having a good enough printer a skill issue? And anyway, I haven't bought anything from GW in ages, although I still play WH40K (and lots of Kill Team), I mostly put together Gunpla, because I don't like painting much, and GW's prices are too high. I'm planning on building a "titan" that's actually a heavily modified PG Zaku II.
You are basically describing Warhammer 50k: the shape of the nightmare to come, a pretty good fanfic that explain what would happen in the 10 000 years following the end of the imperium
It could be like the fall of the roman empire, with the dark eldar suddenly attacking terra itself and while they probably wouldn't do much more than destroy a few things and kidnap a few million people it could convince the rest of the imperium that it's too weak to protect them and it's better to trust their local rulers
Problem is that all dangers have been so hyped up that there is no way a scater empire would endure for a week, like look at octarius
Hyped up, but consistantly shown to be very much beatable. If anything with it collapsing many worlds and whole sectors could more readily respond to threats not having to wait for the painfully slow bureaucracy of the Imperium to catch up. Plus without the oversight of the Imperium and the Mechanicus many planets and even systems could pull their resources together and start rapidly develop their technology and especially weapons research so as to better defend themselves since they can no longer rely on a larger state for marginal project. Plus there's always mutual defensive alliances between successor factions to help cover each other's flanks against common threats.
Eh, no. They'd deal with it better. Shorter supply lines, less area to protect and shorter bureaucracy lines.
See, I love the Imperium *too much to accept it's death* .....also would really fucking suck to see my favorite Major Faction be killed not even 3 years after I initially became aware of Warhammer and right as I am getting into the TableTop Games.
Yeah, you're reasoning is great......but, if the Imperiums death sets up a 2nd and far more desperate Great Crusade from Segmentum Solar and potentially a 14th Black Crusade....THAT would be interesting. Would be absolutely awesome to see The Emperor return and try to salvage the patheticly rotting&very crispy corpse of his once Great-ish Space Empire without him becoming a Space-Cripple again.
The possibilities if this is done good are amazing.....but the possibilities if it's handled shittily could very easily be the actual "End Times" for Warhammer 40k......GW has to approve this extremely carefully.
Congratulations, you somehow convinced a Diehard Imperium Fanboy into thinking the Imperiums demise can actually be good for the Imperium somehow.....
See, that brings up the issue of: "Why?"
If you split the Imperium again only to have him come back and unite everything again, what's the point? You just have pre-heresy Imperium. Which makes everything else pointless. Him dying? Irrelevant, he's back and he's better than ever now. The struggle of humanity fighting seemingly unwinnable odds? Well now you have the Emps, don't need to worry since you're probably gonna win. The Horus Heresy? Doesn't matter, he's gonna be resurrected anyway. The Imperium falling apart to create new more interesting factions? Who cares, they're all back and subjugated to do whatever he wants. List goes on.
I would rather see dead factions only in the lore to appear.
A men of iron remnant would deffinetly make the imperium shit itself
Not death, fracturing. Like with Rome, the empire never ended, it just sort of disappeared one day. But before that it fractured into different states. Like let's say the imperium gave up on half the galaxy because of a massive rift. You still have the imperium and they are focused on fixing things. Then you have the human states who have lost the emperor's light on the opposite side. It keeps the imperium but allows for more stuff to happen
the problem with Big E coming back is that he's so juiced up he is a legitimate match for a chaos god (at least at the time when his whole plan was to starve them out) except he's also planted directly in the physical realm.
Big E by himself should be able to kill legitimately anything in the setting, there's no way to points balance that - the only reason he even lost to horus is because he couldn't bear to hurt his own son until he finally realized he couldn't save him.
@@thefatbob3710 one lost planet of age of tech humans pre a.i. rebellion rediscover the tech and were invaded. then repulse and go after them.
Honestly, as a Necron player, some of my favorite lore bits are Necron lords interacting with the other people of the universe. Having the imperium fall could open so many amazing doors.
Agreed, I just want necrons to do something relevant, rather than being related to the closet.
A watcher in the rain gives insight into how scribes could play a big part in the downfall
"you did it Horus, you defeated me. You truly are the Warhammer 40k." ~ Big E
I was here, and i told you i subscribed because i wanted to see you get 40k subscribers. I acomplished my mission, but i intend to stay because i'm glad to be part of the OG 40k subs and because your lore content is awesome. You deserve it man.
Idea: The Imperium still exists but in the way the Holy Roman Empire existed. Instead of it fracturing it splits into vassal domains that all swear fealty to the Emperor, but not to eachother. That way everyone can fight everyone and still be allies when they have too.
Another upside of the Imperium Fracturing is that it allows the Imperium be legitimately one of the Bad guys again. One of the most common defenses of the Imperium is that Humanity is doomed without, therefore all the awful things that the Imperium has done across its history and it’s oppressive system is justified. If a large chunk of space founded on a more egalitarian and cooperative ethos and is able to fend off Chaos, Orks, and the Nids then that disproves the fundamental assumption the Imperium is built on, all the civilizations that the Emperor destroyed was destroyed based on the Emperor’s Ego and Narcissistic belief that he was the sole way for Humanity to Survive, all the people the Imperium had killed up to this point was an act of pure madness. If that ain’t grim dark then I don’t know what is. Also it’ll deal with the Weirdos who legitimately think the Imperium is a good system that we should base our society on.
Are you referring to the Tau? Their brainwashing is just better , it is another dystopia , not too different in some places but WAYYYY worse in some others. The caste system and all.
Although i would imagine the general quality of life could be better for the Tau , they are living in their "Golden Age of Technology" and humanity itself was like them during those times. The Galaxy may turn them into the monsters they were destined to be , in time.
10:40 Ah, but if Tau usurped Dominion over the humans, the humans would simply being to learn science again, then usurped control over the Tau.
You don't need widespread revolts and cataclysms.
All you need the astronomican to lose just a tad bit of power and for a bunch of select warpstorm to make communication difficult.
Give it a century and the Imperium will have fragmented in regional governments. Not because of greed or revolts, but by pure pragmatism.
Some areas, without external support, will fall and be overwhelmed, while others will see their vast resources, now not sent to the far corners of the galaxy, propel them to new heights.
Sector governos are already de facto sole rulers of their domains and only pay lip service to the imperium at large they don't need much of a push to forget about far away people they can't reach or call and focus on protecting their sectors.
Allthough, the more i listen to your scenario:
-people not wanting to have anything to do with the previous big state
-people fighting over who's the true her to the previous big state
-a cult of technocrats more powerful than other factions that works with all other factions and moves behind the scenes
My guy, this is just Battletech
I genuinely support this idea. That being said, since it's something that would advance the setting in a meaningful way, that's never going to happen.
I can imagine Gulliman forming an Alliance between the Realm of Ultrama, the Tau empire and craftworld eldar. Then while trying to deal with Tyranids/Orks he gets stuck dealing with vast Amanda of Black Templar and Inquisitor ships calling him a traitor to the Emperor's legacy etc. Mo allies Mo problems
I really hope GW grows the balls to pull something like this off someday, tho the problem is that they’re also running a table top game/ video games and they kinda have to keep their main character faction around. Which sucks but makes sense
I suggested this exact idea on the 40k subreddit once and got dragged, so I'm super glad someone made a video explaining why it's a good idea in such detail. The Imperium falling doesn't mean any models or armies would necessarily go the way of the Squats prior to 2022, it just means things would get more chaotic and brutal, creating more narrative opportunities than just 'fascist humans good, demons bad.' I want human factions that aren't loyal to either. I'm so fucking sick of GW's marketing glorifying space marines and the Inquisition. 40k has room for nuance, and it would mean we get a lot more cool shit.
I'd be about it. Especially if they put out the lore in RPG form. Space Dark Ages, a whole galaxy of dangerous, neat stuff, most of which you can profitably shoot.
one of the MAYBE cool things is that without the imperium in check to regulate any large orks they're would be some semi krorks running around
I know this wont be a super popular idea, but at some point in time I think a launch of 50k would be the right way to implement this kind of change. Taking a look at 10,000 years in the future, humanity fractures, everyone changes a little bit. Some factions get removed, some added. I love the idea of 30k and 40k existing together, I think taking a step into the future would be super cool.
That would actually be cool.We could see the primarchs fighting in what they think are the ideals of the emperor and Big E himself)if he is still alive) will have to find to unify humanity with his limited options that scenery has a lot of story’s
In lore the Imperium has withdrawn from the Forsarr sector leaving it pretty much up to the Raven Guard to govern, but this might be a Primarch-level move because they are withdrawing from WAAGH Garaghak, and leaving the larger and absolutely uncontrollable Octarius War to their north. No Imperial Guardin Forsarr, no visible sneaky Raven Guard to the galactic South, just a big fight up north and away from population centers.
absolutely agree this would open up so may new choices for players and lore
Honestly, I'd find it fascinating if Guilliman's play is, long term, to entirely destroy the imperium as his father willed it, and create something different. That could be really cool with other primarchs returning, it'd make the Lion coming back actually fucking interesting because he could totally be like "Dude stop you already tried this once"
It could definitely lead to civil war, and judging by the Watchers of the Throne series (Totally recommend btw) this might straight up be what he's doing (He dissolved the council of Terra and planted his own faithful and progressives from Ultramar)
ideally id imagine it would go down similar too rome, like how to ease the bureaucratic hell that is managing the imperium, splits into two or four separate regions but still one imperium, but then suddenly the main one that's still in control of terra gets annihilated by chaos resulting in the destruction of terra and empy
this results in a civil war between the remaining imperium factions which is never concluded and just turns into a stale mate, during this civil war, power vacuums are created and filled by new factions either claiming to be the new revived imperium or something completely different yadda yadda chaos gets a mega boner from all this shit fuckery yadda yadda further shit hits the fan
I’d like to imagine the Sisters of Battle, Astra millitarum, and custodians would go together as the main imperium, and the marines and mechanicus would split off as their own factions
My biggest problem with the scenario is that it widely complicates 40k...more than it already is.
1) The imperium is the easiest thing for newcomers to latch on to, but with the fracturing of the imperium into so many individual factions, who truly becomes the face of 40k?
2) With how established of a faction the imperium is, you'd have to have a whole millenium dedicated to weakening those bonds. Yes the imperium is already filled with people that hate eachother and would want to split, but powerful factions like certain space marine chapters, custodes, ect, would try their damnest to keep some kind of order, something would have to happen to those factions in order for the imperium to split.
3) The amount of factions....the sheer effort it would take to split off all the armies of the imperium into their own full factions that can't rely as much on eachothers forces...that thought scares me, it would also make the lore more messy than it already is trying to keep track of who is friendly to who.
4) The mechanicus becoming the backround tech dealers of the setting doesn't really sound like their shtick, you would probably have to split the mechnacus up as well, with all factions having their own mechanicus faction to do all their tech shit....which again, would be painfully complicated.
4) smaller thing, but inquistors would have much less of an impactful role because part of their whole sthick is that they have some level of authority on every imperial world, meaning their stories often entail traveling across the imperium.
If you were to fracture the imperium THIS much, the places inquisitors could go to would be extremely limited.
I just think the change would be a bit too extreme, something that you'd probably do in the hypothetical 50k, rather than 40k.
Personally I would make it a bit more of a clean split, seperating the custodes and space marines from the rest of the imperium. With the primarchs rising once more, they start to instill that "the emporer wasn't a god" mentality back into the imperium. The rest of the imperium despise this idea, and so the imperium is split into the primarch's more atheist imperium, and the echlisiarchies more dogmatic imperium.
It still creates issues, but it fufills something similar while not changing TOO many factions that drastically...
Sidenote, one benefit to this you didnt mention is that if the imperium wasnt the top dog anymore, the xenos factions would have more reason to fight eachother, which would be quite appreciated.
The imperium that holds Terra could still be the face of the franchise, failing in that, the Ultramarines and Ultramar.
This is an awesome idea! This scenario has endless possibilities for cool stuff to happen. Plus the Tau would become an actual player in the galaxy.
This...actually sounds badass. Maybe it doesnt COMPLETELY crumble, just becomes much much smaller.
"so why do you send us this much resources?"
"wait...why'd it all go for only one of you? Where's the other one?"
"Hey, Big Guy, why did I have to be both short AND diabetic?"
"Wait... Why'd it all go to only one of you? Where's the other one?"
You know, having actually stopped to watch the video and think about it, the fact that they haven't done this bothers me. This actually sounds like a lot of fun.
The new csm dex makes it more clear than it's ever been that the chaos side of things is already kinda like what you describe here. Fractured petty kingdoms and daemonic realms scattered across the imperium, ideologically and religiously schismatic, as capable of fighting on-another as they are of uniting. This aspect has always made chaos far more interesting than the imperium, and I'd love to see a fractured imperium for the same reasons.
I know I’m late, but with the end we could also see those criminal gangs truly come to power with different themed minis, as well as like real space pirates building their own tiny empires.
Personally I 100% agree, but personally I think an interesting route could be if more conservative elements of the Imperium and Marines for breakaway state(s) basically claiming Guilliman is a heretic.
Your Dark Souls 3 music at the end just makes me think of this topic combined with your souls like video. Endwell 40K is definitely more shooty based, one could probably make that system still work
It would be interesting if after the collapse mars became the dominant planet in the solar system. Leading to the mechanicus controlling the most important plant in the imperium terra
I can tell you this now, Panc.
My homebrew Astartes chapter, the Emerald Stags, would likely join the Eldar.
That 7:43 sound made my day! Thank you!
Any possible future story line that kills off the space wolves is good to go in my book
In fairness, the Dank Angels would realistically go to war with anybody to keep the secret of The Fallen from getting out. You could also argue that an Imperial Guard regiment could go to war with an Imperium faction if some of their leaders are under the thrall of a Genestealer Cult. Admech would go to war with anybody if it meant getting their hands on an STC fragment.
Now, Banana Marines vs Custodes…that one would be difficult to explain.
Ha, if you're such a Warhammer 40k fan then name all 40,000 warhammers.
Trazyn and the blood ravens becoming allies to Trazyn becoming the ultimate force of pokemon masters and magpies would be great to see
I just need more actual chaos wins
Please
They don't feel like a real threat
Honestly I’ve had this idea for a while now and would love to see it! It would make me actually interested in playing 40k. I hope GW decides to go this route, and soon. But part of me thinks it’s unlikely, knowing them.
I like bureaucratic nonsense. I’ve written literally hundreds of pages of lore on the structures of governments I made up. I especially like unusual branch structures, like a secretarial or auditive branch alongside the classic legislative, executive, & judicial. I’ve also combined judicial and executive branches in a few different ways to make a number of semi-constitutional states. For me it’s especially fun to explore the staggering number of uncommon ways a nation can be democratic. Like Electocracies, where the vote is respected but you do not have the right to protest or otherwise oppose the government, among other things, and Pollarchies, which are oligarchies where the desperate effort to prevent the purges inseparable from such a system has resulted in an extensive system of checks, balances, and civilian freedoms.
I *love* all your Videos, the Do or Don´ts are so entertaining, and the one about the Skaven I really love too. Thank you for putting so much work in your stuff, I really appreciate it🙏 May your Pancreas keep fighting the good fight
The Empire takes a long time to die because it's so fucking huge. Like the sun is a nuclear explosion flash that lasts millions of years.
The imperium fracturing would be a colossal fucking disaster. It would simply be introducing new “factions” introduced by the writers that would become the new Ultramarines when it comes to plot armor or the new lamenters
Yup, it wouldn't work like people think it would, it would be all about the human factions fighting each other and all the xenos would get pushed even further to the side, just showing up as occasional boogeyman. Essentially you would be getting Star Wars and Battletech mushed together.
This would also almost justify the return of primarchs, if each primarch is now an emperor of his own realm, they might do less to overshadow other characters or just be interesting enough that it doesn’t matter that they’re overshadowing everyone else in their chapter
I know I'm late on commenting on this, but screw it, I just got into the franchise almost entirely on lore this year and I love the Necrons. The most interesting thing that could happen to them upon the Imperium shattering is some random faction of humanity that decides to be chill with them might be exactly the boost they need to begin learning how to reverse the robot skeleton process. Imagine if the necrons through humanity found a perfect way to be their insane robot selves and have emotions beyond regret again. Imagine an entire human faction who used the tech and became a human equivalent of a necron and went full in on that. Imagine if it were a chapter of space marines and all of a sudden we have robotic skeleton astartes somehow. They could bullshit it.
And that wouldn't even completely alter the necron vibe because a good half of them love being more robot than actually alive so none of the current necrons would actually halt out. If anything it just means the necrons who do opt into having feelings again would do some either 800 IQ silly move or something stupid like instantly falling to any of the chaos gods. There could unironically be "lone chaos androids" again, but probably more interesting. Just imagine a metallic Lord of Change glowing the perfect teal halfway between necron green and Tzeentch blue.
Finally a video we all can agree on. Thanks dude with the broken Pancreas, hope to someday get an elf gf to impress you with
Gonna be honest. My orks named “THE BRAIN BLASTAZ” who have such a deep hate for Tzeench they have been known to broker alliances with Oomies, Da do goodaz, and at one point through pure diplomacy mastery. Balanka Bum Wizza yeeted his fleet against a chaos attack on eldar fleets. Which is how he got a wraith bone tooth that was supposed to be a sword but he broke it almost as soon as he left
Basically he’d prolly start working with a small chunk of the imperium
If the imperium falls I think a combined human necrons faction should come into existence. The necrons could be like an undead aristocracy to the unwashed masses of human slaves, who are occasionally abducted so the necrons can experiment on them and figure out how to steal their bodies
The Necron tomb worlds could be woken up at a faster pace without the United Imperium being a threat, which could lead to development with the Silent Kings plan of a unified necron race once more.
Honestly I’ve always loved the idea of the Imperium devolving into civil war and warring states so I say, go ahead! Let the Imperium fracture and enter an even darker period as brother fights brother while the myriad of threats slowly tighten the noose around humanity’s neck!
I've seen many of your videos but the Algorythm brought this one to my attention today. You are now staring at almost 200k subscribers, Guilliman might start to get jealous.
"Sees Alpha Legion"
Pretend these are loyalist marines... They Are XD
While this would never happen, I would absolutely love and it would actually get me into the WH40K a lot more. I despise the Imperium with a passion. It's not cool or badass, it's just stifling and uncreative, both in the lore and outside of it.
By having the Imperium finally fall apart, humanity will finally be able to thrive and prosper. That's why I created my own imperial guard/space marines army for my tabletop collection, that serves a sector which rebelled against the Imperium and are ruled by a Republic.
The Imperium may in theory be able to bring overwhelming force to bear to crush this uprising, but every time they brought a significant force, the rebel sector much better and more efficient bureaucracy meant that the two forces were equal at best for the Imperium, and if the Imperium wished to bring sufficient forces to actually overwhelm the Republic through sheer numbers, they'd have to leave other fronts unprotected.
And so due to the sheer incompetence of the Imperium, what started as a small local uprising has over the centuries grown to become a full on independent state. They renounce the cult of the emperor, are run by democratic vote and they focus on fighting chaos through education and understanding of the threat it is to the population of their nation. Thanks to the much higher quality of life and education on the matter, Chaos is much less of an issue than in the Imperium, although Tzeench and Slaneeshi cults are still sometimes active and require quick response from the state.
Furthermore, without the stifling bureaucracy, archaic laws and crushing taxes of the Imperium, the sector has prospered and become significantly stronger against Xeno and Chaos invasions, improving technology and tactics.
Was this started due to my hate of the imperium aesthetic and grimderp combined by my love for the imperial guard? Yes, absolutely. Does this go against any established canon and lore? Yes as well, but I don't give two shits about that. I simply want my imperial guard to have actually good weapons. I want to see main battle tanks that are not the piece of junk that is the Leman Russ,.I want to have my guardsman equipped with technology that actually works and not thrown against enemies that clearly outmatch them. And while I am very much content with my fanon, I would 100% support such a direction of the lore, even if I know it will never happen. Too many people love the idiotic, incompetent Imperium.
For my 2 cents on the internet, I don't feel the need for the Empire to break. It just needs to actually... Lose every now and then.
Let the Necrons take back some of their worlds (as they supposedly have), lose some more to the T'au because they're too busy fighting Nids, lose some of those fights to the Nids, bam there you go. (Edit: Oh yeah, Genestealers do something too I guess... But then they get eaten by Nids)
Orks and Eldar I'm mostly fine where they are (personally) but for sure they need some actual wins in the galaxy too. GW's gotta stop pretending they're shaking things up when the status quo is maintained over 10,000 years.
PS: Congrats on 40k Pancreas! You deserve it! A very cozy and entertaining 40k channel I love a lot!
8:15
I think it might be cool seeing Krieg become independent once more. Seeing the imperium shatter would be great!
by the way GW is going, the Imperium is ending with the tyranids arriving on Earth, the Imperium splitting into two or 42k of small empires, but the tyranids would be destroyed by the cool guys in the galaxy. This is my prophecy based on the video and current events of Warhammer40k
I love your videos man. Great content, good voice cadence to listen to, nostalgia-filled Age of Mythology soundtracks in the background. Congrats on 40k subs and here’s to 50k+! 🍻
Mr PNW, ive been watching for you for so long i cant remember when i started. ive enjoyed all of your videos and the humor always brightens my day. congratulations on hitting 40k, heres to the future 🥂
Fuck yeah love it. The "more model options" would motivate GW to do this $$$$
This is what I've been saying for a while.
Splintered human factions, with different beliefs and technology and doctrine, would be amazing, imagine having a human faction similar to the UNSC, with the professionalism of an actual modern day military without the religious zealotry, and with actual human empathy.
Honestly I'd love to see the Imperium fracture. Regardless of whether the Emperor comes back or not. Instability, civil war and full upheaval of the status quo is great drama.
Honestly, I just want something to actually happen in 40k and for the plot to move forward. Hell, just do a time skip of a thousand years or so.
Personally I wouldn't really mind the 40k end times either as long as it ends with the T'au being the only ones not stupid enough to tear each other to threads and as a result prospering.
One thing that this idea would be beneficial towards would be the Farsight vs Ethereals plot line and finally pushing that plot line forward. Their seems to two reason why progression in that plot line has slowed a bit and why most works released now a days are about fleshing out already established lore, (though I am still a fan of Phil Kelly's work in that regard).
The first reason is the fact that although Farsight has sworn off any loyalty to the Ethereal caste, he still feel some sense of loyalty to the main empire and its people as a whole, which is both why he hasn't taken any military action against the Ethereals and even came to the aid of the 3rd sphere expansion when they were about to be crushed.
The second reason is hinted that he is currently on a secret road trip across the galaxy to not only to do research on the warp and chaos but also on the larger state of the galaxy with its various players and politics. The Farsight Enclaves seemed to be waiting for there leader to come back at the moment.
By having the Imperium shatter, Farsight could be in a place in the galaxy where he begins to witness this on his travels. Since Farsight knows more about chaos than any other Tau he could have a moment where he thinks, "oh shit! The bulwark against the Demons has fallen apart!".
He could rush back to the Enclaves and realize that they only way to keep his Enclaves and all those who have sworn loyalty to his banner safe is to start expanding the Enclaves territory, resources, power and influence in it local area immediately.
The Ethereals by contrast, wouldn't get the information about the imperium shattering because the news would travel more slowly to them. So when they start hearing about Farsights new activities and the Enclaves having their own sphere of expansion, they might falsely think, "oh no! Farsight is preparing to finally attack and conquer the Empire!". It could cause them to start ramping up military action against the Enclaves and turn the cold war between the Farsight Enclaves and the main Tau empire into a hot war.
Also we could get more character moments between Farsight and Commander Shadowsun. Hell, maybe we could finally bring in the eternal third wheel of Puretides students into the drama that has been going on, Shas'O Kais.
The best part of this is that whatever part of the galaxy gets the emperor is easily the most defended for the simple fact all the sisters will immediatly flock to that portion and defend it lol
It would likely create a faction of religious loyalists dedicated to the emperor though it likely wouldn't mean it would be the most defended since it now wouldn't have the entire resources of the imperium that Terra has now.