Man the editing and production just keeps getting better. This is a sweet little system. I have a 2x 2699 v4 system with 512GB of RAM for VMs and I want one of these anyways for fun haha.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo it’s fantastic. And the music in the background that fades to very quiet during the non-montage segments. Give my compliments to Alex.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo does oem motherboard cap mem speed? Sometimes these mini sff 3200 memory sticks cap at like 2400 mhz in bios, if not I might pick one up, did speed register in Cpuz or bios? Thanks
All I can think is how many perfectly good cpus are going to end up in landfills because a MB component died and the CPU can’t be reused. I think it should actually be illegal given the ongoing shortages.
@@johnmarianhoffman I agree with you. This business of vendor-locking should be stopped - even if it does only apply to certain grades of CPUs. I would opt out of supporting companies that ask AMD, and likely Intel, to do such.
I like how you speak of Wifi 6 as it's the next coming. Do keep in mind if you have an AX network, even a single AC device will cause your entire network to downgrade to AC. There are other advantages but you won't see them in a non high density environment. Cheers from a wifi engineer.
Wait, seriously? I did not know this. I upgraded my home network to AX6000 but of course not all devices are AX-compatible yet. So you're saying everything, including my AX clients are actually running on AC at the moment? Sheesh. Would letting all AC clients connect to the (separate) 2.4GHz AC network alleviate this? Or do you have other recommendations to prevent this happening?
@@BinaryBlueBull No it's not true. If the device support AX, then it's using AX. It's like a/b/g/n/ac/ax. If your device support those or higher, then it won't downgrade, unless you're too far away from the wifi router 😊 and it will use 2.4ghz if you have add that connection too, as like backup.
Man, i love such tiny PC. Happy that with the 6000 ryzen chips, we'll get fast iGPU and would make those tiny PC viable gaming desktops beyond just esports stuff. One thing i don't like and never will: external power bricks! With things like the HDPLEX 80W AC-DC existing, it's a bit sad to still see bricks the size of the PC being shipped out. Atleast use GaN bricks...
You could max out the 65W I'm sure with a decent 2.5" Drive added. The one thing missing from these 1L PCs (for me of course) is dual NVME + dual SATA + 1 pci-x (or 10Gbe network built in) My 2700X based home server with specs above is idling at 70W which bothers me to no end.. The moment you use some ATX psu the idle wattage just can't drop. I had hopes for ATX12VO spec but that seems kind of dead now or at least very far away.. Maybe ServeTheHome could have a new segment on how to optimise power usage of your home server with tricks like under volting etc. I think the success of project tinyminimicro is not only because people are after the space savings but also power. Of course up to you guys as it's a deep rabbit hole 😅
We have a pretty large backlog right now. A piece that I have 40% written is using a cluster of TMM nodes versus a single HPE ProLiant ML110 where part of the discussion will be around power consumption. For the STH main site, we basically have hardware and content for the next 81 days and 90 days is usually the limit I feel comfortable committing to.
I love Proxmox! It's so flexible and if you do you due diligence (backups) it is a great way to experiment with VMs and containers. PS - That Lenovo profile looks pretty awesome except for the lack of a mini-PCIe slot. ( I know that none of the 1 liter mini PCs have that feature but a nerd can dream! )
Hey Patrick, great video. When you upgraded the RAM in this machine, did it run at it's rated speed (looked like 3200MT/s on the label)? Were there any RAM tuning options in the BIOS?
It did. That is why we bought a lot of these modules. They are up in price by $20 now. Just hoping they do not change anything on the modules in the future to make them not work at their rated speed.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I own this ram as well. I have a apu laptop that has 8gb fixed and 8gb in socket. So I upgraded the single dimm to 32gb. I had issues with 3 other manufacturers modules before I got the Gskill dimm. Non of the other ones would run at 3200, which is the speed of the fixed ram.
just saying hello from my M75q Gen 2. It's my daily workstation running linux, maybe one day I'll demote it to Proxmox duty, but I'm too busy enjoying the hell out of it for now!
I love this videos about micro PC's, thanks to this videos i buy my Dell optiplex micro 7070 and i was able to upgrade it to 64GB ram and inspiring me to add thunderbolt 3 for eGPU.
Just binged a bunch of your videos and subbed. Your videos have honestly helped me to pick out a micro system to use for a custom project that I'm doing.
If you 3d print a stand, you could install a M.2 to PCIE x4 cards and use extenstions (if needed) so you can install HBAs, 10gbe nics, etc. You'll need a seperate PSU but if you are using an HBA you'll need a seperate psu anyway. Is it the best setup? No. However, if space is a factor, it will work. Just a crazy idea that came to mind.
Is this video sponsored by Impact Luxbanx?! ;) It is disappointing to see Lennovo put AMD in the second tier. I would love to see one of these with 10GB Ethernet, or an option to add it. When you look at the benchmarks in a 'per watt' perspective its hard to understand why AMD is being put in a second tier platform. You could put four of these in a 2U short-depth rack slot along with a power supply and have a nice compact cluster.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh... Well, if it's still a good little machine and you're cool with that... Then power to you. There's been an uproar about this on Louis Rossman's channel. I wonder if it's ARM trustzone under the covers on the management engine ....
@@kayakMike1000 I mean, we have been talking about the feature for years now on STH (www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/ ) and the reason people are talking about it again is because of this system and what we and STH readers found. I get what and why Lenovo/AMD are doing it for security, but I also think the way it is implemented is not right and that is why I gave the suggestions in this video and on the STH main site. This is the review of the actual machine that we found the locking on. It is still a great machine if you are not swapping processors, but there are downstream market impacts called out multiple times in this video.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh yeah, it's a great feature on these AMD chips. I am a firmware engineer, I helped implement a similar feature called ARM trustzone on an industrial control board. It's a bit of pain to get right, but when you do, the CPU only runs authentic code, more advanced you could make encrypted boot sector as well so no one can decompile any updates...
I like the lenovo systems the best minus vendor locking. I have tried the hp minis. The case gets super hot to the touch. I returned my 4650ge hp and got the lenovo version instead because of this issue. I am using a 4650ge lenovo tiny with batocera. It works great!
I actually really like the 805 G6 and G8. They are a step up on features compared to the Lenovo. If you want to see hot though, the 805 G8 we have also had the 1660 Ti
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yay, can't wait for that one! Hey just lemme ask you a question real quick: between mini-pc Vs. laptop, which one do you think has a more critical and restrained heat dissipation?
Been eagerly waiting on this review, we have 13 of them on order, but they're needing to be deployed rather quickly and i wont be able to benchmark any of them over the 4000 series
I want these machines to be powered over the new USB PD 3.1 240W standard, and someone to release a USB power hub so you could power a cluster of these off a single PSU. Begone bricks!
RAM has no security coprocessor (and doesn't need one), if you mean hardware serial whitelisting, then this has been done for decades by HP and Lenovo. The main reason they don't to it on RAM is that editing the RAM's little flash chip with the serial and model info is very easy
one that could be fun to review is the asrock deskmini x300w, it support the 5000g series, i got one with 32gig and 5600g, it's a beast, i recommend the noctua cooler too (NH-L9a-AM4) at least you are not vendor locked!
We have been using these for quite a few years and did some 2020/2021 articles. We also did the USB 3 to 5G adapters (less good of an option in a way.) USB 2.5GbE Review example: www.servethehome.com/ugreen-usb-type-c-to-2-5gbe-cheap-network-adapter-review/ USB 5GbE Article: www.servethehome.com/usb-3-1-gen1-to-5gbe-network-adapter-guide/ USB 5GbE Video: ruclips.net/video/HPq2gKdwD80/видео.html
Interesting box. But for virtualization host I would like to have a couple of more ethernet ports. At least 4 hardware NICs. 1 for VM network, 1 for external storage block device. Can't trust a single SSD disk for not become broken. Another 2 for running a pfSense VM.
I think the Lenovo Thinkcentre M70Q tiny with i9-11900T CPU is a much better choice. When do you think we will see the next gen of tiny Lenovo's with intel 12900T or even with 12900 (if the TDP is low?). What's your estimation Patrick?
Cliff covered Alder Lake in HP TMM earlier this week on the STH main site. HP told us March would start the roll out. www.servethehome.com/hp-elite-mini-800-g9-with-intel-alder-lake-launched/
One more great review!!! 👏 Do you have some table with all specs and test results to easily sort/compare these 1L PCs of TinyMiniMicro series? I couldn't find it but it is probably me.. Would be great to have it and update it with every new test.. Keep rocking ;) thanks
We have some folks building them in the forums: forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/lenovo-thinkcentre-tiny-project-tinyminimicro-reference-thread.34925/
If I did not already have a fully filled 27u rack, I would start with something like this. Edit: But something with a recent Intel CPU. That Quicksync is awesome for Plex.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo It will be awesome for a Plex, Jackett, Radarr, Sonnarr, Transmission media MACHINE! Im going to stick to my R7 5700G with a P2200 for transcoding 😁
@@bryanv.2365 35W TDP Alder Lake is ETA mid-March I am guessing. We covered the HP Elite Mini G9 launch this week on the main site (not on YT). When we can we will look at Alder Lake. In the meantime, earlier today we ordered parts for a mATX corporate Alder Lake build for comparison.
Of note, while i havent tested on the 5000 series tiny, you can install a 65w 4000 or 3000 series processor in the 4000 series Gen2, its not reccomended because the VRMs would probably pop eventually, and that heat sink really looks like it cant handle more than 50w, but it was interesting that there was no fuss over a 65w processor, just make sure you have the 135w power supply if you're using the tiny in one monitor. You could probably get away with using a 65w processor long term if you set up something like the 3rd party tool called ryzen controller to limit thermals to say 75c. OR used windows power plan to prevent the processor from using turbo
I am not proposing doing this, but I am on a Lenovo Tiny with a 5 PRO 4650GE CPU and noted that the 5 Pro 5650GE you are discussing is 20ish % faster than mine in benchmarks. Hypothetically, if I was to swap that newer CPU in, would it also lock itself to this system? What if I upgraded every new generation as long as the socket, RAM, etc was still viable. This could leave me with several useless CPUs.... I didn't know about the PSB thing when I bought my Lenovo Tiny last year. I love Lenovos, but I simply would have chosen a different brand of 1L PC if I would have known this.
You could upgrade the CPU, but I would not recommend it given you already have the 4650GE. Personally, I would not go through all of that hassle for the performance bump.
I have tested the 5700G and it will not post, but you could go to a 4750G which does post, this is likely a lack of microcode in the BIOS, not because it cant work, just that they dont bother to put work into supporting it Edit, over the weekend, i can test the Ryzen 5 5650G but if the 5700G doesnt work i doubt the 5650G would
@@denvera1g1 Thanks. I am not doing it. My point was hypothetically pointing out that you could have a socket that vendor locks any new CPU added as an upgrade as well....
13:50 6 cores 16 threads, I'd love to check that processor out, jk, I would slow down the dialogue, I know you're trying to make the vid shorter, but you repeat most talking points twice. Slow down and eliminate the duplicate dialogue. Loved the vid by the way.
I'm a little surprised as to how you're doubling the max ram listed by Lenovo (32gb). I know it's not always the actual maximum, but this is quite surprising - did you flash some other bios that supports this?
Not as good as regular mATX box which will have much better (near silent) cooling, upgradability (can stick in a 5950X even in basic mobo, can add all kinds of PCI-E expansion cards) and robustness - less cramped, less hot more replacable parts.
These are used for when space is the *primary* consideration. I could put it underneath my router rather then having my m93p sitting sideways taking up a bunch of space. However, there's a price to be paid for cramming a lot into a small space.
For the Optional 1 DP Add On, do you happen to have a part number for it? Been trying to add this to my M75Q Gen 2 and can't find it. Thanks for the great video!
A waste of an AM4 CPU. If Lenovo are going to vendor lock they should not even bother putting an AM4 chip in and use a H or U series mobile processor instead.
Ive got 2 HP mini's - bought them to replace my 4th gen Gigabyte Brix. Great machines but I'm finding they are noisy when the fans start up... even under medium load.. cure that and I would be happy.
Who uses Proxmox in production? I had to ask I've worked in IT for 17 plus years and I've never seen it in the data center it's always VMware, HyperV, or full-blown KVM. However, I can see using it for a home lab build.
We have hosted STH on Proxmox VE for almost 7 years now that is serving many millions of page views per month plus a lot of other bits we run. We also have several lab clusters in each of the data centers. Proxmox VE is "full-blown KVM" of course. It is just Debian using KVM for virtualization, LXC for containers, but then it has bits like backup, ZFS, Ceph, clustering, plus the web UI.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the reply it would be nice to get a video on what you are doing with Proxmox I like to hear real world info on production environments.
The most important question is does it support ECC memory and is the ECC memory running in full ECC mode, with scrubbing and correction? If it isn't, this is pointless as any form a useful *nix server or even a *nix workstation.
Beast??! 12 threads, HA! I got my Dell Optiplex 7080 i9-10900T 10Core(20Threads) 35Watt 64GB RAM 2x NVMe + SATA(for 8TB SSD), paired with Dell Companion powerbank - practically a "DataCenter in a backpack". It idles between 6 and 7 Watts !!! Couldn't ask for better. Not to mention the part where I get the most amount of 10Gb USB ports pet 1L PC, and 7090 has a 20Gb USB port. My next purchase will be Optiplex 7090 discrete version, so I can replace the GPU with RAID/Thunderbolt controller and pair it with QNAP DAC.
Downvoted. The only thing i was interested in was the power usage, especially in idle. There is a huge difference between 20W Idle and 90W power supply. Use a meter to track consumption. We are hitting US$ 0.50 now here in germany.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo This one is excellent for WS. 75q was perfect for Proxmox if there was at least PCIE for a NIC and second M2 slot for backups. 4 mem slots is a dream :)
Ha! Impact makes the giant 6'x4.5' softbox that we are trying for photography. It just happens to have their logo on that edge. The logo will be gaff taped out for the next video.
NAS prices for Qnap and Synology are quite high, and Synology seems to have very old hardware, almost nothing has 2.5Gb networking. So I'm going to get rid of my Synology, Asustor and Buffalo and instead build a NAS with mini-ITX, or perhaps one of these Lenovo, Hp, etc., but only if they have 2.5Gb, everything new has to have that as I don't want to buy legacy speed networking. Do any of these boxes have 2.5Gb?
HP has an add-on Flex IO v2 2.5GbE NIC but on two of the machines we have on order they said that they cannot get the part to build our systems. For a NAS mITX is better if we are being honest
Could it be possible to install a modded bios and PCI-E riser cable(In place of the 2.5" drive caddy)? I mean, for GPUs, you would need a custom 3D-printed top to allow airflow, and a card that is 1 slot wide to begin with.
Very aware. We were the site that broke AMD PSB use in servers years ago (we learned about in in 2018 after Dell started doing it) and then AMD PSB use in these systems a few weeks ago. This was the system/ CPU we actually tested it on.
Was the AX210 automatically recognized when you installed it? Mine came with the same card as yours, but when I installed an AX201, it wasn't recognized. Not even with the correct driver from Intel. I know the card works because I had it in another system. Thank you.
Patrick i need cores,ram and stuff like that for my special project. At this moment seems amd is a dealer at cores Ps do these machines support pcie nvme 4?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo needed for office work and Outlook. such PCs can work 24/7? are they very reliable? I need a PC that can work for many years without breakdowns
I have a same sort of box but then a dell (3050 micro) but for some reason the bios sees the nvme drive but proxmox does not.. any idea why this is happening?
The MacMinis from Mid 2010 to Late 2014 had 2 drive bays stacked one above the other. I have a Late 2012 model with an i5 and 16GB RAM running Proxmox, pfSense, Pi-hole and some Docker Containers. Rock solid, completely silent machine. Depending on where you live you can grab one for around 150-200€ on ebay.
so if you want to upgrade to a 24 core... your stuck as you cannot sell this old processor so you get stuck paying twice for the processor... eating $350 when you upgrade it
I'd be much more interested in a real idle power measurement. I use an old Latitude notebook with an 6th gen i5 to run Homeassistant loaded with plugins. It only draws about 7 W idle. Anyone got info on this unit's idle consumption?
100% found out that the Nanlite Pavotube overhead was creating interference on this one when it was giving the yellow light. Changed XLR pathing for future videos.
Of course we can run mac os on proxmox vm. Just like we can run windows, linux as vm on proxmox. Okay ignore about mac os. Just want to confirm can we passtrough vm to the hdmi out to monitor with this mini pc?
I've been following the tinyminimicro series for awhile. Man, those panning videos around the hardware are such a treat to the eyes :)
Man the editing and production just keeps getting better.
This is a sweet little system. I have a 2x 2699 v4 system with 512GB of RAM for VMs and I want one of these anyways for fun haha.
Alex spent extra time on editing this one.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo it’s fantastic. And the music in the background that fades to very quiet during the non-montage segments. Give my compliments to Alex.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo does oem motherboard cap mem speed? Sometimes these mini sff 3200 memory sticks cap at like 2400 mhz in bios, if not I might pick one up, did speed register in Cpuz or bios? Thanks
Lenovo and/or AMD can go pound sand over PSB signing without mandatory laser-etching of the heat spreader and/or the case.
All I can think is how many perfectly good cpus are going to end up in landfills because a MB component died and the CPU can’t be reused. I think it should actually be illegal given the ongoing shortages.
That feature is available only in CPUs that have "PRO" in the name, like in the video at 0:14
So if you stay away from those you should be OK
and on server CPUs (Epyc), of course
@@johnmarianhoffman I agree with you. This business of vendor-locking should be stopped - even if it does only apply to certain grades of CPUs. I would opt out of supporting companies that ask AMD, and likely Intel, to do such.
@@SpookyLurker wouldn't be surprised if AMD gave them a discount since it stops a bit of second hand market potential.
I have a Intel 10th gen tiny PC from Lenovo...these tiny PCs really are awesome. This AMD setup is crazy good.
I like how you speak of Wifi 6 as it's the next coming. Do keep in mind if you have an AX network, even a single AC device will cause your entire network to downgrade to AC. There are other advantages but you won't see them in a non high density environment. Cheers from a wifi engineer.
Wait, seriously? I did not know this. I upgraded my home network to AX6000 but of course not all devices are AX-compatible yet. So you're saying everything, including my AX clients are actually running on AC at the moment? Sheesh. Would letting all AC clients connect to the (separate) 2.4GHz AC network alleviate this? Or do you have other recommendations to prevent this happening?
@@BinaryBlueBull No it's not true. If the device support AX, then it's using AX. It's like a/b/g/n/ac/ax. If your device support those or higher, then it won't downgrade, unless you're too far away from the wifi router 😊 and it will use 2.4ghz if you have add that connection too, as like backup.
Man, i love such tiny PC. Happy that with the 6000 ryzen chips, we'll get fast iGPU and would make those tiny PC viable gaming desktops beyond just esports stuff. One thing i don't like and never will: external power bricks! With things like the HDPLEX 80W AC-DC existing, it's a bit sad to still see bricks the size of the PC being shipped out. Atleast use GaN bricks...
A local reseller is selling old versions of these with a j1800 4gb and a 16gb mini ssd for 40$ cdn. Perfect for pi hole as it's cheaper than any sbc.
Where?
@@jordanmilne7994 www.bauersystems.com/ ($cdn, Toronto area)
You could max out the 65W I'm sure with a decent 2.5" Drive added. The one thing missing from these 1L PCs (for me of course) is dual NVME + dual SATA + 1 pci-x (or 10Gbe network built in)
My 2700X based home server with specs above is idling at 70W which bothers me to no end.. The moment you use some ATX psu the idle wattage just can't drop.
I had hopes for ATX12VO spec but that seems kind of dead now or at least very far away..
Maybe ServeTheHome could have a new segment on how to optimise power usage of your home server with tricks like under volting etc. I think the success of project tinyminimicro is not only because people are after the space savings but also power. Of course up to you guys as it's a deep rabbit hole 😅
We have a pretty large backlog right now. A piece that I have 40% written is using a cluster of TMM nodes versus a single HPE ProLiant ML110 where part of the discussion will be around power consumption. For the STH main site, we basically have hardware and content for the next 81 days and 90 days is usually the limit I feel comfortable committing to.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Oh wow well I'm not surprised as I'm still waiting for your secret method to score a 2U server 😅 Looking forward to all of that!
I love Proxmox! It's so flexible and if you do you due diligence (backups) it is a great way to experiment with VMs and containers.
PS - That Lenovo profile looks pretty awesome except for the lack of a mini-PCIe slot. ( I know that none of the 1 liter mini PCs have that feature but a nerd can dream! )
Hey Patrick, great video. When you upgraded the RAM in this machine, did it run at it's rated speed (looked like 3200MT/s on the label)? Were there any RAM tuning options in the BIOS?
It did. That is why we bought a lot of these modules. They are up in price by $20 now. Just hoping they do not change anything on the modules in the future to make them not work at their rated speed.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I own this ram as well. I have a apu laptop that has 8gb fixed and 8gb in socket. So I upgraded the single dimm to 32gb. I had issues with 3 other manufacturers modules before I got the Gskill dimm. Non of the other ones would run at 3200, which is the speed of the fixed ram.
just saying hello from my M75q Gen 2. It's my daily workstation running linux, maybe one day I'll demote it to Proxmox duty, but I'm too busy enjoying the hell out of it for now!
Agree. I use the M75q Gen2 Ryzen 4000 one almost daily as well.
I love this videos about micro PC's, thanks to this videos i buy my Dell optiplex micro 7070 and i was able to upgrade it to 64GB ram and inspiring me to add thunderbolt 3 for eGPU.
I have the same dell.i5 8500t but I have a little usb c expansion board for a 3rd DP out. These dells are ok but I would trade for the Lenovo.
Just binged a bunch of your videos and subbed. Your videos have honestly helped me to pick out a micro system to use for a custom project that I'm doing.
Thank you Link! Have a great weekend.
yuk, vendor locked cpu, no no no
If you 3d print a stand, you could install a M.2 to PCIE x4 cards and use extenstions (if needed) so you can install HBAs, 10gbe nics, etc. You'll need a seperate PSU but if you are using an HBA you'll need a seperate psu anyway. Is it the best setup? No. However, if space is a factor, it will work. Just a crazy idea that came to mind.
Is this video sponsored by Impact Luxbanx?! ;)
It is disappointing to see Lennovo put AMD in the second tier. I would love to see one of these with 10GB Ethernet, or an option to add it. When you look at the benchmarks in a 'per watt' perspective its hard to understand why AMD is being put in a second tier platform. You could put four of these in a 2U short-depth rack slot along with a power supply and have a nice compact cluster.
I wish. That is a (I think) 6' x 4.5' softbox we are trying out to see if it looks better than the old P300c softbox.
Loved this video!
Lenovo locks those processors!!
This was the machine we used to find that.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh... Well, if it's still a good little machine and you're cool with that... Then power to you. There's been an uproar about this on Louis Rossman's channel. I wonder if it's ARM trustzone under the covers on the management engine ....
@@kayakMike1000 I mean, we have been talking about the feature for years now on STH (www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/ ) and the reason people are talking about it again is because of this system and what we and STH readers found. I get what and why Lenovo/AMD are doing it for security, but I also think the way it is implemented is not right and that is why I gave the suggestions in this video and on the STH main site. This is the review of the actual machine that we found the locking on. It is still a great machine if you are not swapping processors, but there are downstream market impacts called out multiple times in this video.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh yeah, it's a great feature on these AMD chips. I am a firmware engineer, I helped implement a similar feature called ARM trustzone on an industrial control board. It's a bit of pain to get right, but when you do, the CPU only runs authentic code, more advanced you could make encrypted boot sector as well so no one can decompile any updates...
I Love Proxmox as well. Fantastic all-in-one
I like the lenovo systems the best minus vendor locking. I have tried the hp minis. The case gets super hot to the touch. I returned my 4650ge hp and got the lenovo version instead because of this issue. I am using a 4650ge lenovo tiny with batocera. It works great!
I actually really like the 805 G6 and G8. They are a step up on features compared to the Lenovo. If you want to see hot though, the 805 G8 we have also had the 1660 Ti
@ServeTheHome hey it's look forward to the HP EliteDesk 805 G6 video! I miss the little guy..
Hi Jose!!! Thanks for the special addition to that one.
Gosh I love these little AMD tiny machines!
Just wait for the 805 G6 mini!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yay, can't wait for that one! Hey just lemme ask you a question real quick: between mini-pc Vs. laptop, which one do you think has a more critical and restrained heat dissipation?
I can't wait for the 6k series APUs come out.
Been eagerly waiting on this review, we have 13 of them on order, but they're needing to be deployed rather quickly and i wont be able to benchmark any of them over the 4000 series
These are cool little units!
I want these machines to be powered over the new USB PD 3.1 240W standard, and someone to release a USB power hub so you could power a cluster of these off a single PSU. Begone bricks!
Awwww snap! We got music now!
Alex went wild with transitions and music on this one.
Did the machine brick itself when you upgraded the memory? No? well, it won't be long before that is a thing. You know, "security".
RAM has no security coprocessor (and doesn't need one), if you mean hardware serial whitelisting, then this has been done for decades by HP and Lenovo.
The main reason they don't to it on RAM is that editing the RAM's little flash chip with the serial and model info is very easy
@@marcogenovesi8570 just soldered it on
one that could be fun to review is the asrock deskmini x300w, it support the 5000g series, i got one with 32gig and 5600g, it's a beast, i recommend the noctua cooler too (NH-L9a-AM4) at least you are not vendor locked!
I've recently been testing USB 2.5Gig dongles. Pretty good for secondary NIC on a system like this!
We have been using these for quite a few years and did some 2020/2021 articles. We also did the USB 3 to 5G adapters (less good of an option in a way.)
USB 2.5GbE Review example: www.servethehome.com/ugreen-usb-type-c-to-2-5gbe-cheap-network-adapter-review/
USB 5GbE Article: www.servethehome.com/usb-3-1-gen1-to-5gbe-network-adapter-guide/
USB 5GbE Video: ruclips.net/video/HPq2gKdwD80/видео.html
This in depth review is awesome, thank you! I really like the b roll and still frames. Way more helpful than the Lenovo site.
Interesting box. But for virtualization host I would like to have a couple of more ethernet ports. At least 4 hardware NICs. 1 for VM network, 1 for external storage block device. Can't trust a single SSD disk for not become broken. Another 2 for running a pfSense VM.
I think the Lenovo Thinkcentre M70Q tiny with i9-11900T CPU is a much better choice.
When do you think we will see the next gen of tiny Lenovo's with intel 12900T or even with 12900 (if the TDP is low?). What's your estimation Patrick?
Cliff covered Alder Lake in HP TMM earlier this week on the STH main site. HP told us March would start the roll out. www.servethehome.com/hp-elite-mini-800-g9-with-intel-alder-lake-launched/
One more great review!!! 👏
Do you have some table with all specs and test results to easily sort/compare these 1L PCs of TinyMiniMicro series? I couldn't find it but it is probably me.. Would be great to have it and update it with every new test.. Keep rocking ;) thanks
We have some folks building them in the forums: forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/lenovo-thinkcentre-tiny-project-tinyminimicro-reference-thread.34925/
If I did not already have a fully filled 27u rack, I would start with something like this.
Edit: But something with a recent Intel CPU. That Quicksync is awesome for Plex.
Totally. We did the M90q Tiny Gen2 as well. It looks like we will start seeing Alder Lake in mid/ late March and beyond.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo It will be awesome for a Plex, Jackett, Radarr, Sonnarr, Transmission media MACHINE! Im going to stick to my R7 5700G with a P2200 for transcoding 😁
@@ServeTheHomeVideo The new 4P/4E Alder Lakes look very very very promising vs a 10G MacMini - are you planning on grabbing one for testing?
@@bryanv.2365 35W TDP Alder Lake is ETA mid-March I am guessing. We covered the HP Elite Mini G9 launch this week on the main site (not on YT). When we can we will look at Alder Lake. In the meantime, earlier today we ordered parts for a mATX corporate Alder Lake build for comparison.
Of note, while i havent tested on the 5000 series tiny, you can install a 65w 4000 or 3000 series processor in the 4000 series Gen2, its not reccomended because the VRMs would probably pop eventually, and that heat sink really looks like it cant handle more than 50w, but it was interesting that there was no fuss over a 65w processor, just make sure you have the 135w power supply if you're using the tiny in one monitor.
You could probably get away with using a 65w processor long term if you set up something like the 3rd party tool called ryzen controller to limit thermals to say 75c. OR used windows power plan to prevent the processor from using turbo
I am not proposing doing this, but I am on a Lenovo Tiny with a 5 PRO 4650GE CPU and noted that the 5 Pro 5650GE you are discussing is 20ish % faster than mine in benchmarks. Hypothetically, if I was to swap that newer CPU in, would it also lock itself to this system? What if I upgraded every new generation as long as the socket, RAM, etc was still viable. This could leave me with several useless CPUs.... I didn't know about the PSB thing when I bought my Lenovo Tiny last year. I love Lenovos, but I simply would have chosen a different brand of 1L PC if I would have known this.
You could upgrade the CPU, but I would not recommend it given you already have the 4650GE. Personally, I would not go through all of that hassle for the performance bump.
I have tested the 5700G and it will not post, but you could go to a 4750G which does post, this is likely a lack of microcode in the BIOS, not because it cant work, just that they dont bother to put work into supporting it
Edit, over the weekend, i can test the Ryzen 5 5650G but if the 5700G doesnt work i doubt the 5650G would
@@denvera1g1 Thanks. I am not doing it. My point was hypothetically pointing out that you could have a socket that vendor locks any new CPU added as an upgrade as well....
@@chuck1011212 You can turn the feature off so that new processors are not enrolled, but the original processor will still be vendor locked
13:50 6 cores 16 threads, I'd love to check that processor out, jk, I would slow down the dialogue, I know you're trying to make the vid shorter, but you repeat most talking points twice. Slow down and eliminate the duplicate dialogue. Loved the vid by the way.
I'm a little surprised as to how you're doubling the max ram listed by Lenovo (32gb). I know it's not always the actual maximum, but this is quite surprising - did you flash some other bios that supports this?
No. It just worked.
The maximum memory rating is usually based on the modules around at the time the manual was written.
would have loved 10 seconds of sound whilst in action.
i would consider it, but the vendor lock is just...
Not as good as regular mATX box which will have much better (near silent) cooling, upgradability (can stick in a 5950X even in basic mobo, can add all kinds of PCI-E expansion cards) and robustness - less cramped, less hot more replacable parts.
Ordered the parts today for a mATX Alder Lake build that we will have a video on.
These are used for when space is the *primary* consideration. I could put it underneath my router rather then having my m93p sitting sideways taking up a bunch of space. However, there's a price to be paid for cramming a lot into a small space.
For the Optional 1 DP Add On, do you happen to have a part number for it? Been trying to add this to my M75Q Gen 2 and can't find it.
Thanks for the great video!
A waste of an AM4 CPU. If Lenovo are going to vendor lock they should not even bother putting an AM4 chip in and use a H or U series mobile processor instead.
Ive got 2 HP mini's - bought them to replace my 4th gen Gigabyte Brix. Great machines but I'm finding they are noisy when the fans start up... even under medium load.. cure that and I would be happy.
That WIFI module is also in the M.2 Slot in my ACER TC-220 but it also seems to have Bluetooth built in.
Who uses Proxmox in production? I had to ask I've worked in IT for 17 plus years and I've never seen it in the data center it's always VMware, HyperV, or full-blown KVM. However, I can see using it for a home lab build.
We have hosted STH on Proxmox VE for almost 7 years now that is serving many millions of page views per month plus a lot of other bits we run. We also have several lab clusters in each of the data centers. Proxmox VE is "full-blown KVM" of course. It is just Debian using KVM for virtualization, LXC for containers, but then it has bits like backup, ZFS, Ceph, clustering, plus the web UI.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the reply it would be nice to get a video on what you are doing with Proxmox I like to hear real world info on production environments.
THIS!!!
The most important question is does it support ECC memory and is the ECC memory running in full ECC mode, with scrubbing and correction? If it isn't, this is pointless as any form a useful *nix server or even a *nix workstation.
Lenovo does not support ECC on these.
is WIndows somehow immune to memory corruption now? ECC memory is at hardware level
You talked about a 8 core model. what do you mean by that? Nice video by the way
Vendor locking should be illegal 😠
If a consumer buys something it should be theirs only
Beast??! 12 threads, HA! I got my Dell Optiplex 7080 i9-10900T 10Core(20Threads) 35Watt 64GB RAM 2x NVMe + SATA(for 8TB SSD), paired with Dell Companion powerbank - practically a "DataCenter in a backpack". It idles between 6 and 7 Watts !!! Couldn't ask for better. Not to mention the part where I get the most amount of 10Gb USB ports pet 1L PC, and 7090 has a 20Gb USB port. My next purchase will be Optiplex 7090 discrete version, so I can replace the GPU with RAID/Thunderbolt controller and pair it with QNAP DAC.
Yes, I have similar specs , inspired by serve the home. absolute VM best for my homelab practices.I'll look up those discrete versions
Lenovo with AMD Ryzen CPU is kind a sucks because this CPU has PSB vendor lock.
Downvoted. The only thing i was interested in was the power usage, especially in idle.
There is a huge difference between 20W Idle and 90W power supply. Use a meter to track consumption. We are hitting US$ 0.50 now here in germany.
This is closer to 12W idle - www.servethehome.com/lenovo-thinkcentre-m75q-tiny-gen2-35w-amd-ryzen-5000-powerhouse/5/
2 sad things: 1 - only 2 memory slots, 2 - no PCIE slot with riser :(
That next level up is this one ruclips.net/video/E_an5heI1BU/видео.html
@@ServeTheHomeVideo This one is excellent for WS. 75q was perfect for Proxmox if there was at least PCIE for a NIC and second M2 slot for backups. 4 mem slots is a dream :)
Those are ECC RAM? If not ... there is an option to have ECC ram?
why is there a impact watermark? are you using a trial video software like bandicam or something?
Ha! Impact makes the giant 6'x4.5' softbox that we are trying for photography. It just happens to have their logo on that edge. The logo will be gaff taped out for the next video.
Very informative! m75q mobo is it the same size with m720q?
Needs dual nic's to be useful
i donno man, i don't think this is patrick from sth
NAS prices for Qnap and Synology are quite high, and Synology seems to have very old hardware, almost nothing has 2.5Gb networking. So I'm going to get rid of my Synology, Asustor and Buffalo and instead build a NAS with mini-ITX, or perhaps one of these Lenovo, Hp, etc., but only if they have 2.5Gb, everything new has to have that as I don't want to buy legacy speed networking. Do any of these boxes have 2.5Gb?
HP has an add-on Flex IO v2 2.5GbE NIC but on two of the machines we have on order they said that they cannot get the part to build our systems. For a NAS mITX is better if we are being honest
That I/O though 😂
Noob question because I don't understand this sentence in video:
Why some people do not like the amd ryzen gpu?
Could it be possible to install a modded bios and PCI-E riser cable(In place of the 2.5" drive caddy)? I mean, for GPUs, you would need a custom 3D-printed top to allow airflow, and a card that is 1 slot wide to begin with.
Be real careful with upgrading the cpu. they are now making chips that blow the cpu when you try to swap it.
Very aware. We were the site that broke AMD PSB use in servers years ago (we learned about in in 2018 after Dell started doing it) and then AMD PSB use in these systems a few weeks ago. This was the system/ CPU we actually tested it on.
Where can I find these? I need 5 of them.
In all vidoes I watched you talk about power consumption and don't mention any wattage numbers (idle, mid, high)
Was the AX210 automatically recognized when you installed it? Mine came with the same card as yours, but when I installed an AX201, it wasn't recognized. Not even with the correct driver from Intel. I know the card works because I had it in another system. Thank you.
Can't patch the bios = can't trust these anymore 😔
Patrick i need cores,ram and stuff like that for my special project. At this moment seems amd is a dealer at cores
Ps do these machines support pcie nvme 4?
Some of the 11th Gen Intel ones do.
why dont u loose a singel word on noise and cooling?
Lenovo tiny gen3 or HP ProDesk G9 is better in terms of design and specification? why?
Both great! Depends on what you want to do. Here is something we did with the HP ruclips.net/video/HylKpDmwaFA/видео.html
@@ServeTheHomeVideo needed for office work and Outlook. such PCs can work 24/7? are they very reliable? I need a PC that can work for many years without breakdowns
Using an external KVM with a RyzenPro? Doesn't this thing have remote management like vPro on board?
It has AMD DASH but it is faster to use a TinyPilot than it is to get vPro/ DASH up and running on these.
still lock the CPU to Lenovo systems?
In the AMD PSB video (referenced a few times in here) we mentioned that we would be doing a TMM piece on the box we used. This is that box.
IMPACT!! (tm) LUXBANX!!
Will you ever test egpu setup through m.2 slot ?
Perhaps, but focusing on some of the in-system GPUs for now.
Had it not been a Lenovo I would have liked it. Le No No No No No No No No No No No Vo.
Is there another system of similar specs that doesn't have a vendor locked CPU?
Just curious if it will run Mac OS X natively or via proxmox
How about an optional card which has esata, then run to external 4 bay enclsoure? Then run TrueNAS on it to make ZFS raid. Woudl that work?
I have a same sort of box but then a dell (3050 micro) but for some reason the bios sees the nvme drive but proxmox does not..
any idea why this is happening?
How do you passthrough the integrated Vega graphics to the Proxmox VM?
One general question: does any of tiny/mini/micro PCs support two 2.5" drives (internally)?
Not that we have seen. There are 2x M.2 + 1x 2.5" options though.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thank you! Based on number of those systems that you had your hands on I'd guess there won't be any.
The MacMinis from Mid 2010 to Late 2014 had 2 drive bays stacked one above the other. I have a Late 2012 model with an i5 and 16GB RAM running Proxmox, pfSense, Pi-hole and some Docker Containers. Rock solid, completely silent machine. Depending on where you live you can grab one for around 150-200€ on ebay.
Can you get another nic in one of those optional ports?
Not easily. That is why I think folks will be excited to see what was done with the 805 Mini G6 (and especially G8 if HP builds it)
so if you want to upgrade to a 24 core... your stuck as you cannot sell this old processor so you get stuck paying twice for the processor... eating $350 when you upgrade it
What is a CPU temperature when stress testing?
I'd be much more interested in a real idle power measurement. I use an old Latitude notebook with an 6th gen i5 to run Homeassistant loaded with plugins. It only draws about 7 W idle. Anyone got info on this unit's idle consumption?
It can be upgrated to 5700G 65w 8c/16t? I use Lenovo 135w power supply on mine.
Mine M75q Gen 2 have a 4650GE… =(
Does it support ECC ram?
ECC is not supported on these 1L PCs.
Some buzzing happening when you're talking
100% found out that the Nanlite Pavotube overhead was creating interference on this one when it was giving the yellow light. Changed XLR pathing for future videos.
Is Ryzen still crashing Linux? Does it also apply for prox in 3rd gen?
I choose 5900HX Mini Pc
Oh, the hate box that my work uses as a pseudo thin client.
Amd version never got a pci expansion?
Question : With macOS vm on proxmox, can i passtrough vm to the external display with this hardware?
This is not Apple hardware so I do not think we can talk about virtualizing macOS on it, right?
Of course we can run mac os on proxmox vm. Just like we can run windows, linux as vm on proxmox.
Okay ignore about mac os. Just want to confirm can we passtrough vm to the hdmi out to monitor with this mini pc?
Do you have the 1660ti gpu?
What is the price?
Too bad they're unavailable
Yea. Availability on all of these systems is rough these days.
6 cores, 12 threads. I swear you said 16 threads.
Sir, I think you are a bit clueless. The box does not say "INTEL INSIDE". But is does scream "CHINA INSIDE" via lenovo, dangerous computers.