The ULTRA Mini Workstation from Lenovo... the ThinkStation P360 Ultra
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- We take a look at the Lenovo ThinkStation P360 Ultra. We see how Lenovo built a wildly expandable small box with high-end Intel Core i9 and NVIDIA RTX A5000 processors all into a system that might be the Windows alternative to the Apple Mac Studio. Note: We have a few more benchmarks on the STH main site for this.
STH Main Site Article: www.servethehome.com/lenovo-t...
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Where to Find The Unit We Purchased
Note we may earn a small commission if you use these links to purchase a product through them.
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Search Lenovo's website: fave.co/423CQgi
This is the 2x 32GB DDR5 G.Skill kit we showed: amzn.to/3Z9cQOn
Here is the Micron kit we mentioned: amzn.to/3ZePxTv
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Timestamps
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00:00 Introduction
02:00 External Hardware Overview
05:24 Internal Hardware Overview
10:16 Performance
12:34 Power Consumption and Noise
15:20 Key Lessons Learned
18:21 Wrap-up
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Some indication of price (range) would have been nice to have at the start of the video.
$1,200+ btw
@@TGC1775 That's just the base i7-12700 version
The config as shown in the video is almost 5000$!
@@TGC1775 really? That is a crazy price
Gpu is around $2500 maybe 3k not sure about the other specs
@@TGC1775what gpu is in that version? That’s cheap!
2x Nic's are brilliant! I configure testing environments and using the 2nd output to a console server letting me network many of the things out there together.
Cheers STH great coverage of an outside the box server.
Damn, this is basically most SFF PC user's dream.
They need to build a little 2 or 3U rackmount kit for 2x of these!
@@JeffGeerling Witness: The beautiful J. Geerling cameo!
Yeah if you got $6,000 to blow
@@jt3000o Having that much power in that little space is useful in some situations. Not too many, but some :)
On the lower density end: most of us. On the higher density end: go for full-fledged server hardware.
The flip side is that these are bought by companies where hardware is a small fraction of software costs. For others this will be an interesting platform in a few years when they come off lease on ebay
As someone who has been migrating to smaller yet powerful desktops for my homelab (including a Dell 7060 Micro after seeing them here on Project TinyMicroMini), this made me think of a beefed up version of my AsRock DeskMini. Its also good to see that Lenovo is not as bad as in the past with "Whitelists" in BIOS limiting only certain brands of "approved products" to be used in their systems. Great video and thanks for sharing yet another very viable option for homelabs.👍
Thanks for this. I've been thinking about an m90q gen3 up until this moment for my office. Now I'm thinking this p360 ultra is just the ticket.
The maxed out model is super expensive, but the more standard conifgurations are reasonably priced. I grabbed an i7 model for $1300 CAD over black friday, and I'm very happy with it. Completely toolless chassis, remote management with vpro, 4 ram slots, and I added a 10gig card in the 2nd pcie slot. Also, for the standard models, the GPU is a standard low profile card and easy upgradable - I grabbed a mining-used a2000 for cheap and upgraded from the stock t400.
Cool idea
Which NIC did you go with and were there any quirks to get it functioning?
@@stevenmishos I believe its an Asus XG-C100C, with an AQ107. Worked out of the box for me in both Windows and Proxmox.
@@leadwhite1249 appreciate it!
Great review!! Thanks so much!!
Great review as always!! You help me stay up to date on all this stuff I can't afford 😊
I'm needing one of thee, this would be a WICKED firewall !!
Very helpfull. Thank you!
What's so funny is that the professional laptops from Lenovo (I've the P51 from 2017) already have 4 memory slots and allowed for 128GB RAM for years in a package that's probably less them 1L :)
have got it at work, this thing is a beast :D
It’s expensive, but show me a comparable unit in such a small package. Ideal for our usecase.
After looking into the documentation for a bit, I found out that the GPU is in fact a tradition PCIe x16 variant. It requires a proprietary 90-degree bridge adapter, but would certainly take cards in a physical sense (IF there isn't a whitelist AND the GPU doesn't need external power).
Just a heads up: If you get this system without a dGPU, the riser will not be included and you will have to order it separately. Its SKU/FRU 5C51D95675 and costs about 50€. It's still very finicky to actually make a SAS9207-8e HBA fit there, but it's doable! I put a Mellanox ConnectX-3 in the other slot and now have a quite nice compact homelab system.
@@robgee2713 looks like the dgpu is a custom item. not upgradable. be nice to have a RTX in it.
In regard to Thunderbolt ports on Tiny/Mini/Micro machines, I have four HP EliteDesk 800 G5 Minis that were purchased with Thunderbolt 3 ports. They're my home vSAN cluster. I assume newer generations of these machines also have the Thunderbolt option available.
I appreciated your segment on noise - most useful. But the standout flaw for me is that while this PC comes with high-bandwidth USB and Thunderbolt, it doesn't come with built in 10 Gb ethernet.
yeah :/
bummed about this, wish Apple had some real competition
You could add 10gbit pretty easily with an expansion card.
Totally agree. I think the option there is PCIe slot.
@@gunysa Yeah, ofcourse, but how does that change the fact that he (and i've seen many others) expect that to have been built in?
Just use a USB to ethernet adapter.
Super pro, entertaining and smiling
Geez.. I want this as my living room VR and MCPC.
Even though the price is ridiculous for such a PC (5000$ for this config!!), i will say i like this formfactor the most, you don't lose any performance compared to a full sized tower PC (much unlike the 1L PC's) but it's still on average 3 times smaller while also having plenty of IO.
Wish more of this kind of PC was available at a good price on the normal consumer side, or even just the parts to build them.
I would love to see a case bundled with a special cooler for this form factor. An mITX form factor system and low-profile GPU would fit nicely.
You lose a lot of great ATX features though. It's great that there are still standards that survive in a proprietary world.
a5000 is probably half the price of the config. go with something less powerful.
I recently got the M90q gen3 Tiny with Alder Lake processor. It's a beast considering the power consumption. Also comes with a pcie gen4 x8 which should be enough for low profile cards like the nvidia t1000
Awesome! We just snagged a deal on the M80q Gen3 but I prefer the M90q's.
10:04 Small correction: MXM is the name of a (now defunct) standard connector type for laptops and blade servers. This machine has a Lenovo proprietary connector for the video card.
Get the riser (SKU/FRU 5C51D95675) for it and you can put many half height, full length PCIe x8/16 cards in there, like a SAS9207-8e!
The layout of the two fans by the memory remind me of the steam machine internals by the cpu and gpu
I have one of these and I absolutely love it. I got a ThinkPad Keyboard II bluetooth keyboard to match it too.
Sweet
I get it for the companies that need that power while wanting space and a tiny platform. But at that price you can build a latest Gen AMD ryzen system with a great GPU in it sure it will take a bit more space up and what not.
I think some of the smaller units are pretty nice for those wanting a smaller setup at a lower price. Ideally I like something that can replace a laptop for the office space for our staff. But at the same time it's hard to beat a laptop for some tasks in the data center as well.
Great solution for businesses that will benefit from the small footprint. For a tech savvy home user the price is a little steep...DIY builds will give much better price/performance, perhaps sacrificing some footprint space. Mini PC's like Intel NUC"s are great options for home users looking for affordable small PCs to do the basics and use for automation or for some limited server applications.
Damn that's a nice system!
You can put one of those huge video cards into that system.. you have 2 thunderbolt connectors, so you can put a huge external box that's 2 to 3x the size of your tiny box to do it (lol, defeats the purpose of a small case yes, but you can do it, like those that hook them up to notebooks) Love seeing this small systems, been selling Lenovo tinys for over 10 years now
What I was thinking. If you already have one, like we do for our Mac mini, just get one without video and hook up the thunderbolt port.
This guys energy is fucking awesome
Ha! Thank you.
Wish I could ever understand why put the Thunderbolt ports on the front when devices with that high bandwidth would likely be connected permanently and as such, preferably on a rear facing port.
Awesome 🤤
The one thing I see there is: A Mac Studio competitor. You get the advantage of the Windows or Linux ecosystem, expandability, upgradeability and modularity.
I know Lenovo isn't looking for creators to buy this kind of gear (at least judging by the press materials on their website), but if this configuration is priced at USD4000, I know what kind of machine they are pitting it against: A M1 Max Mac Studio.
Let's hope there isn't any whitelisting here, at least so we can put a 13900T or 13900.
Support for 13th gen is not a matter of whitelisting for this system. It's bios was created before the availability of 13th gen CPUs. I guess Lenovo's certification program for professional applications only concentrates on the gen available at release. Also, they will want to sell you the P370 Ultra with 13th gen support, right?
I went the other way: Had a look into Lenovo's spec sheet and downgraded to an i3-12100. Added a SAS9207-8e HBA and a Mellanox ConnectX-3. Now, it sips power, is absolutely quiet and rocks as a NAS system.
Frankly speaking, I admire my K39 with Ryzen5 5600x and PowerColor RX 5700 itx more. Which is also 4L, and with Noctua fans around 35 dB.
I wish Patric did a review for tmm units with mxm gpu slots.
My OCD wants to peel the 'protective' plastic off the P360 Ultra badge on the front panel!🤣 Pretty crazy that 10 or 15 years ago, this would have been a 'thin client' that required a network connection just to boot up.😮
You can get these from Lenovo now for 45% off. It would make a great media pc for church with all the video outputs to all the different screens and not take up much room and run the presentation software really well. I found a i9 12900 with 32gb memory and 1tb drive
If you can get this with an all AMD configuration, pretty sure my dad would buy one.
Awesome ... I would like you to make a video of HP Z2 MINI G9...thanks
challenges! i’d almost the crazy IRQ conflicts 8:07
For pricing as of early March 2023 in the US there seem to be discounts that bring the price down by 1/3, the mid US $ 2,000. Also Lenovo has discount programs with certain groups, International Mountain Bike Association - IMBA, so it might be worth joining to get a discounted price.
Now for the purchasing decision - buy a MINISFORUM Neptune HX99G, or pay twice as much and get the same 1 TB, 64 gig, but more graphics memory, the ability to add 64 GB of memory.
Great points. Many companies also have purchase agreements with Lenovo that bring prices down further. We did not do the HX99G, but yesterday's video was the Minisforum UM690 and that was less than impressive under load. I think that is our second or third Minisforum box, and there is a pretty huge gap in build quality and thermal engineering between Lenovo and Minisforum.
I wish they would make something this size, but lower power and storage focused. Lots of nvme and 2.5" ssd.
Patrick, can you recommend a SFF or mini that has a native parallel port? Preferably fanless.
The old Dell machine I was using to run my CNC finally kicked the bucket the other day and I would rather find something newer and reliable to operate it.
The benchmark on the 12g i7 isn't far off from that i9. I wonder what the premium was to step up to the i9 from the i7
@ServeTheHome well love them or hate them, but Display port is the Standart in the Professional user space. and its better than HDMI anyway
i have never disliked the power brick! i wish that power bricks would be more customisable because i am a fan of getting all the ac to dc dune outside of pc as that does cut down on heat in the case that starts to matter more and more in sff.
This is the workstation I have been waiting for.
great review!!!
Thanks!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Hi, can't you help ?
A more reasonable config:
i7-12700 vPro CPU
32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-4000 RAM
NVIDIA RTX A2000 12 GB GPU
512 GB PCIe 4.0 M.2 SSD (OS Drive)
Intel vPro Wi-Fi 6E + BT 5.1
$2112.00 USD (before tax + shipping)
It’s funny how the bigger your PC looked the cooler it was. Now it’s the complete opposite. Although huge tower PC with water cooling solutions still look pretty cool.
I am very surprized how close the 5750G is to the 12900, the 12900 has the same number of "P cores" but it has an additional 8 "E cores"
If i didnt have so much trouble with the iGPU on Ryzen 7000 with TrueNAS Scale, i'd have been very happy with the performance of my 7950x at the chassis' 60-80w thermal constraint.
You can enable ROCm, but it still doesnt really work as well as Intel on TrueNAS, or AMD under windows.
Brother - what make are those screwdrivers (Red Tops) in your video?
The place I work actually had 3 of these they where going to BIN! I use one for a Plex server now, transcode 4k/1080 without a problem.
WOW! Lucky find
AX211 actually gives you BT5.3, worth mentioning might be also that it can do Wi-Fi 6E
Lenovo's Website also lists the 12900K, but I highly doubt it can keep it cool, might be a typo.
You can only configure the 12900K with a lame GPU (T400). I have the 12900 plus A2000 configuration, and see you can use the Intel Tuning utility to adjust the P1 and P1 power throttling parameters. It looks like if you set the power throttle parameters high, the 12900 ends up being thermal throttle limited at about 149 watts. A custom configuration can also choose ECC memory (not in any standard config).
@@janbottorff4642 you can configure any "K" 125W CPUs but will be limited to the x4 expansion slot for an add-in dGPU. Yes , cooling the 125W CPU requires a larger heatsink which bleeds into the open space of the x16 slot. So any low profile GPU in the x4 slot like the T400/T1000/ WX3200 will work in combination with the "K" CPUs.
Neat little box. I just wish there was an option for ecc memory, maybe using the w680 chipset
ECC memory is a configurable option
some IT offices use standard vendor towers not unlike the users and nothing tooo fancy and so the extra port are great for general IO and virtualization type stuff
Hi, can you tell me how to install the 2.5" HDD on this P360 Ultra ? I bought this machine without the HDD, cos I wish to buy Seagate HDD, But Lenovo Did NOT provide the 2.5" HDD mounting bracket.
My gawd, that is a chonky power brick!
Wooooooow!
Great review. This seems to be an impressive workstation.
Is there an option to install AMD GPU instead of Nvidia since AMD is more compatible with Linux OS?
This product exists so we realize how great the ATX system really is.
Hello! I'm not gonna say first, but I will gladly watch it!
Wouldn't this be cool if you could buy just the chassis, and you could be put in your own custom parts? Would be excellent.
I want one of those with AMD Zen 4!
What would be sweet is a reboot of the intel nuc with an RDNA3 version of the custom AMD graphics, in this chassis maybe a little smaller but integrated PSU. Ideally with AVX512 for better emulation performance, so ironically probably an intel-less intel nuc. Pretty much what valve would design now if they were to give steam PC another go.
Almost sounds like a successor to this box that we reviewed. ruclips.net/video/iaYHtfa1-pY/видео.html
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yes, that but on steroids with a fat cooler bolted on. I have a PN50 with 4700u which is fine but the graphics are lacking, fine for a desktop and very light gaming but that's it.
Just got a P3. Any tips on rack mounting it?
Could you please explain why this system cannot reach the full 4800 speed of DDR5, their spec manual says 4000 max.
Per the Intel spec , 4800 is the max speed for single dimm per channel implementation in 12th gen. With 4 dimms slots, there are two dimms per channel thus reducing the max achievable speed. It's a limitation of the architecture.
Not having a integrated power supply should be illegal at it's price point. This is the major difference between mac minis and tiny mini micro. also this and the mac studio.
Wonder how the Ada 6000 would perform as an egpu. And the reasonable power draw and size means there are options for an egpu enclosure
I do not think we are going to show that off in the RTX 6000 Ada review.
I have this system, I want replace cpu from 12700k to 13900k, do you think the bios will recognize the CPU?
Wanted one of these, but too expensive, went for a NUc Extreme 12 on runout for $1000 including 16Gb and 512GB ssd.
Can this machine run Windows Server series OS? Thanks.
missed opportunity for a huge heatsink like the mac studio
Great machine!, although I think it's quite an overkill for my needs :P
This strongly reminds me Mac studio. but I like Lenovo P360 more because it runs Windows. :D
When did we start measuring computer cases in metric volume? Not saying it’s a bad idea or anything but it’s been a minute since I have looked for smaller form factor machines.
Feels like I am ordering bottle of soda pop.
That volume rating was more for cubicle planning and is a big driver in the 1L PCs and some of the now bigger ones.
How much TDP is the CPU heatstink?
What’s your model? There are many 30g1 or 30g2 ?
Great stuff! 👍
4:15 these are not RJ45 but 8P8C sockets. Let's use tech channels like this one to fix this very common error.
The PCIx16 socket, does it allow for bifurcation? Also what about space for 2.5" drives?
There is an optional 2.5" bay. I think you'd have to buy one of these units with a 2.5" drive to obtain it, though.
@@zoopercoolguy Was curious because the PCIeGen3x4 slot would be a good option for a raid controller. (And the x16 slot w Bifurcation could handle 4x Gen4x4 M.2 cards.) Could make an entirely SSD/nvme TrueNas box in a small footprint.
This is how the Mac Studio supposed to be.
P360 Ultra is discontinued, the successor seems to be the P3 Ultra and it seems to be cheaper. Lenovo could send to STH one sample for a review.
Giggity giggity goo.
that pci-e slot is so weird. from the looks of it there is no chance to add a card that has ports to plug cables in it like a usb/network/sound card.
It is a standard low profile PCIe card slot.
12:35 Power "Consuption" 🙃
👏👏👏
How many display do you need?
Hello, please where I can get that "pillow", or what it is with Intel Xeon print? Thank you.
Ha! That was used as a prop at the SC 22 pre-event gala. I was able to take one (with Intel VP approval) after the event when they were debating throwing them away.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Oh, I see. Thanks :)
So it's Lenovo's take on Mac Studio.
Is it possible to Upgrade to 13th Gen down the line?
Thais would futureproof it a lot…
What is LGA-18xx??
Hi, can you advice any tiny pc have 128GB Ram,
Hello, thank you - can I put in the low-profile a2000 pcie (traditional form factor) video card in either pcie slot in this ultra pc ??? Thank you
you can spec your config with t400, t1000, a2000 and a5000. if i were ordering, id order one with a gpu from the start, since im not sure if you can upgrade aftermarket. and even if you can, you should go for a beefier psu (there are three options when ordering).
Just a heads up: If you get this system without a dGPU, the riser will not be included and you will have to order it separately. Its SKU/FRU 5C51D95675 and cost me about 50€.
@@robgee2713 its a FRU, not a CRU (factory vs customer replace unit)?
Mac Studio competitor. Need comparisons.
Why don't they put 2 NIC's on the 1 liter options? The Pfsense crowd would buy those up like hot-cakes.
HP has had a second NIC option, including 2.5GbE options. Here is the info www.servethehome.com/hp-elitedesk-mini-2-5gbe-flex-io-v2-nic-intel-i225-m74416-001/
The price actually surprised me, I was guessing $2500, but that is a rather high end GPU. What does one go for with just the integrated GPU in the i9?
goto lenovo website and spec one yourself.
Depends a bit on the discounts out there. Low end pricing is usually around $1K. Getting a Core i7 with the A2000 was ~$2.3-2.6K.
The lenovo configurator does give "1TB 7200 rpm HDD" by default, but I could not see any place here where sata drive would actually attach ?!
Ho ho, maybe this tool could help in my quest ! Thanks
This makes an excellent music production pc with 2 ethernet ports I can connect one to my network and one to my nas add two 2tb ssd, there's thunderbolt so my audio Interface will run well, with a usb hub for my keyboard mouse and all, run a really fast system with 64gigs of ram and very low power consumption 24 threads and 16 cores is really good supposing it is atleast 3.8ghz , hell I can even run mac on this, really good value for money than getting a macmini
Hi Vinod - mind sharing what kind of audio interface you use? Looking myself
@ServeTheHome I use a motu 828es and antelope synergycore discrete thunderbolt, both excellent interfaces but If you don't care for thunderbolt then I would recommend motu ultralite mk5 excellent interface if you want more ins and outs if you want 2x2 motu m2 is the best
Price-to-power, it still doesn't beat the Studio. It certainly comes close, but the electrical power needed, combined with price and other inefficiencies, the mac studio is _still_ a better investment, including the over-priced monitor.
I already own a PNY a2000 card, can I put that card into this ultra PC ???
can I connect 7 monitors..?
How would this work as a trading computer? 3 32in 4k screens running from Sunday evening til Friday evening
Great. Could even use the little Intel NUC we reviewed last week
@@ServeTheHomeVideo thanks. I see they have a similar unit to the one in this video on sale for half price
Shit I just want that case!