Vince is in it for his overall impact on the game, he was one of the most popular players in the league (most all star votes in 2000) and one of the most popular people in Canada. The current generation of Canadian players in the NBA are all in there because of Vince (SGA, RJ, Murray etc.) He has more cultural impact than a Chauncey Billups could
Might be a hot take but I prefer a HoF that's easier to get into than one that's super exclusive. Greatness deserves to be celebrated and you shouldn't get screwed out of the HoF (cough cough pete rose)
Even though the MLB HoF has several problems, I prefer a bigger bar to entry so that there's at least a pretense of competition involved. Basketball is oversaturated and ridiculous with who it lets in, like letting in a guy from 1952 who averaged 12 and 5 and who nobody's ever heard of. The MLB has issues with the Veterans Committee nepotism HoFers, absurd snubs, and inconsistent moral/integrity criteria, but the basketball hall will let in anyone with even the smallest bit of significance to advancing the game. Basketball's is a hall of very good, a hall of fame, a hall of non-professional play, and a hall of basketball ambassadors. It's too inclusive to be as meaningful as baseball's, where even the worst hall of famers were above average compared to the best players of their era. There are incredible baseball players who didn't get in because they barely missed the career WAR threshold, for instance; some of these guys were universally loved and better at baseball than VC was at basketball. That high bar makes being a baseball hall of famer way more impressive, especially given the crazy ratio of # of baseball players to # of HoFers. I get your take about appreciating greatness overall and not screwing people over, but I still think it's better to have too few than too many.
I have so many thoughts about this too man, this shit is a serious problem. Like I like gambling, but it used to be "oh he's the gambler" not "gambling ads are on every 5 seconds and shirt sponsors of soccer clubs"
Oscar was a huge influence for brazilian basketball, it's no coincidence that the only 3 brazilians that won the NBA (Thiago Splitter 2014, Leandro Barbosa 2015, and Anderson Varejão 2016) were from the generation that looked up to him. It's also no wonder there are no relevant brazilians now, the country didn't have as big of a star player after him.
I just wanted to thank you for the great content! I started an NBA club in my high school and all of the members I showed your videos to found them really informative. You made it so easy to explain stuff like the cba and advanced stats. You also don’t stretch the length of the videos to add unnecessary fluff, which makes it easier for me, since I don’t have a lot of youtube time. Thank you so much.
"Ok, the fact that you dont think Vince deserves to be in the hall of fame for best dunk in the olympics of all time really makes me question your integrity. You think the hall of fame is about accolades and career accomplishments but I think its about jumping really high..." which is how I imagine most hall of fame decisions are made.
in my opinion, everyone who wins the NBAs most valuable player should be in the hall of fame. its a really exclusive club and such an incredible achievement
Rose's case is tough tho, he really fell off a cliff due to the injuries very quickly after that MVP (that he really only got b/c the NBA world was mad at Lebron). Is a single MVP and literally nothing else enough to crack the Hall? Debatable.
@@burkedestounis3818 His impact on the game is getting him in, every kid from the 2010s wanted to play like Rose (Some kid named Temetrius is out in the league and is basically the second coming of rose). An Mvp, two gold medal, multiple allstars and an all-nba 1st team is a hefty resume for a guy who played 5 or so good seasons.
I’ve always been annoyed with how easy it is to get into the basketball hall. It’s the sympathy hall of fame. There are too many hall of very good players in the actual hall of fame. I really believe it should be strict to get in. I come from the school of thought that if there is a debate, you aren’t in. It should be for no doubters. There should really only be like 30-40 guys in history in the hall of fame. I would even be strict about allowing guys like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green into the hall and I’m a die hard Warriors fan born and raised in the Bay Area. It should be really really unfairly hard to get in. We have so many stats like all nba, all star, MVP, etc. that describe a ton of all time great players, but there should be a further classification above all that designated for only the absolute best of best of their respective generations, and that’s what I would want the ball of fame to be. This is why I preface every discussion I’ve ever had with someone about “should x make the hall?” by reminding the person I’m talking to that the basketball hall of fame is the easiest hall of fame to get into. I have this discussion every year when my dad says to me “can you believe x made the hall of fame, he shouldn’t be in?”
7:17 I see it this way, if D-Rose had this resume in NFL or Baseball, he would just be hall of very good/what if. Since MVPs not making the MLB and NFL hall of fame is very common. But in the NBA it just feels wrong excluding an mvp, especially the youngest MVP ever. That's not a story you can't not include in the hall of fame.
Latrell Sprewell is one example of a player who had an issue which stops him from HOF and that was chocking PJ Carlesemo in 1997. Latrell Sprewell is a HOF type player with the Warriors, Knicks and Timberwolves. The person who picked Chauncey Billups to be HOF doesn't know basketball. A NBA Title is not a criteria for HOF, unless you're a Charles Oakley (who if he won with MJ and the Bulls or Pat Ewing and the Knicks, he would definitely be in the HOF due to his impact on the court), which is like a Dennis Rodman (All Star with the Pistons, under the radar, yet showed his HOF status with the Bulls on their 2nd three peat). If you picked Chauncey Billups (even if he is Finals MVP) to go HOF, then you must pick Robert Horry, Derek Fisher and Vernon Maxwell to be in the HOF because they won NBA Titles. You have much better basketball players who did not win the NBA Title who are much more deserving to be in the HOF than Chauncey Billups.
To argue for Michael Cooper's case: he was the original 3 and D player, an archetype that's only become more and more important and relevant to the sport as time goes on. We basically have him to thank for when we talk about guys like Klay Thompson who for sure is going to make the Hall of Fame someday.
On players getting in after a lot of time has passed: This has to stay that way. There's going to be players that are doing things that aren't as widely understood in their own era, but after enough time has passed, the consensus on what their contributions to the game were will change to be more favorable. Not a perfect example, but Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot HoFer (only took him one more year) because "he never won a championship". You can't tell the story of the 3 point revolution (with Ray Allen and Steph) without including the guy they looked up to (Reggie). Then there's guys like Dennis Johnson, who was a Finals MVP, then won 2 more with Bird and the Celtics, retired in 1990, and somehow didn't get inducted until after his untimely death in 2007... I think there's always going to be committee members that argue for certain players (or types of players) based on their personal tastes (usually players that are good at offense, because that drives sales) and against other players (and types of players) because they don't necessarily appreciate the skill and talent involved on the defensive end (or whatever the case may be). In other sports, like the Pro Football HoF, there used to be this dumb argument that "Wide Receivers with under 1000 catches don't get consider, because we should draw a line in the sand somewhere" which is really stupid gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping, and kept guys like Andre Reed and Tim Brown out for way longer than they deserved. What's going to be wild though? The first year Kawhi is eligible. I cannot think of a polarizing athlete in terms of talent when healthy, and negative media attention for... trying to keep himself healthy...
For me I would be shook if Kawhi didn't get in as a first ballot guy. Not because I'm a huge fan, but because of how much he's accomplished. People would have to be really impacted by his inconsistency in the second half of his career.
@whatslaps I have a very similar opinion, but you have to keep in mind that some number of HoF voters are going to be media/news people. For all we know a guy like Stephen A Smith (who has very vocally blasted Kawhi as "the worst super star ever") is a voter...
Vince wasn’t in more All NBA teams because of his position, back then you had to be the top of your position to make it in, that’s why Centers barely made it in regardless of talent.
Do a video about how some teams retire way to many player numbers. It’s so weird how the raptors are retiring Vince Carter given how everything finished and he didn’t even accomplished that much with them
He established Toronto on the NBA map, was the most popular player in the league while he was with them (#1 All Star vote getter for like 4 yrs straight iirc), was at his best when he played for them, and Raps fans long ago forgave him for the less than ideal exit. He should definitely get his number retired with the Raps. Maybe if he had the same career and had started in like Boston or LA instead of TO, you could say those teams shouldn't retire his number b/c they're running out of numbers to put in the rafters, but most NBA teams don't have that issue.
I believe since basketball is was more international than Baseball and (American) Football the barrier to entry must be adjusted to accommodate that. A hall of famer from who only plays in Europe may not have the same amount of talent as one who played in the NBA, but it does not take away his dominance in his league and / or international. Also, the international game matters more to players outiside of the US.
It's a joke because Bill Laimbeer (2x champion, pretty much the first stretch 5 ever, multiple time all-star at a time when the eastern conference was crowded with amazing centers, rebounding champion) isn't in I rest my case
@@whatslaps MJ, Magic and Bird probably all had a lot to say about Laimbeer's worthiness. He was also about as popular with the media as Barry Bonds was. But how many professional athletes have a video game with their name in the title and AREN'T HoF'ers? Because Bill Laimbeer does! That's worth a Hall pass imo
yeah it’s the hall of very good, but if it’s stricter with its inductions then everyone starts complaining about how annoying and stuck up the voters are so eh. also I’d like to take the time here to say that what cwebb did is completely different to what barry bonds and pete rose did. bonds and rose both made decisions to lower the integrity of the league they played in and their accomplishments as well (bonds gets a slight exoneration considering that basically every baseball player at that time was using steroids) cwebb took money from a booster to PLAY at a specific college. yeah it’s “against the rules” but the fab five brought so much publicity to the university of michigan and they weren’t allowed to take money at all. those rules were insane, idiotic, and extremely exploitative. they should have been broken.
damn the media does a good job of covering up these cases, like i dont think they're completely hidden but you gotta wanna find it to know about it so it seems
Honestly I think Baseball hall is way too stingey (and sometimes NFL). One thing about NBA hall is that for the most part its easy to make in that there's rarely any controversy. That's not the case with Baseball (and occasionally NFL), you could ask a die hard fan and they could give a whole list of players that easily have a Hall of Fame resume that should be in and the only reason is they have such an insane backlog, favoritism, or back then the way they looked at stats was alot different. It's actually kinda ridiculous.
Baseball is so old school. I kind of like how stingey it is though. Makes the induction have a little more meaning. Honestly though I don't really care.
man love the content of the video's, its very informative (especially as a dutch guy that just now is getting into NBA). I am learning a ton, and I love it. But man, these edits give me anxiety. Watching this is like drinking 4 redbulls while on coke and mushrooms simultaniously. It feels like a 10 minute hyperactive tiktok marathon. I personally would appreciate it very much if you would turn it down a bit with the overlay snap cuts, inserted snap sounds, etc. You have a very own style, which is very nice, try to keep that, but just build in a bit more tranquillity in your edits 🙏
i think this is kinda misunderstanding what the basketball hall of fame is about and what hall of fames are as a whole. they arent meant to basically be leaderboards or checkpoints for how good u r, its about impact at any point. vince is in the hall of fame bc of his cultural impact with his dunking and the raptors jersey that he made legendary with his highlights. if ur gonna use the metric of "u cant tell the story of basketball history without them" its hard to argue that vince carter doesnt have a big part in changing the way people dunked the ball and how the way he played and his flair enticed the music and rap world and really helped start the connection between basketball and rap. theres so many people that u can make an elongated argument like that that it makes sense why the basketball hall of fame has so many people. basketball as a sport is so inherently individualistic while being a team sport that it caters towards creating legendary stories about single players over and over and over again seemingly more than other sports. they announced this year that they r adding Spike Lee, Jack Nicholson, Billy Crystal and sold old rich real estate dude 76rs fans as hall of fame super fans this year. i think that is what the hall of fame should be. i think hall of fames as a whole should be about ur impact on the sport in any sense. the hall of fame is meant to be a puzzle of the story of basketball with the pieces being the inductees. u cant talk abt basketball without talking abt super fans like spike or media members like woj
It’s the Naismith basketball HOF not the NBA HOF and what you’re criticizing it for is what makes it great that on any level in any country from HS such as coach Bob Hurley sr to Scmidht all time NBA/Euro league greats can make it. It’s arguable that Football would benefit from consolidating the HS, college, and NFL into one HOF similar to basketball considering there are some truly great HS and college players that for one reason or another never made it to the NFL. New to the channel just subbed, even though I don’t agree with your take truly enjoyed the vid.
Yeah, I agree. my perspective has changed a bit since I released this. I'm glad the NBA did the top 75 and made it more of a mini hall of fame just for NBA players. Thanks for the sub, man!
I think european legends and other non nba players who do something for the sport should definitely get into the HOF its still to much a NBA Hall of Fame
Interesting take about Schmidt. Dude certainly put up some major numbers throughout a very long career, but that big fish in a small pond argument is valid, good evaluation. The who gets to vote inductees is a good one too, not sure I ever really thought about that too much, but it is important in understanding how people get in. I agree that first ballot guys are the truest purest form of hall-of-famers. If there is no doubt that a guy should get in as soon as they are eligible pretty much means those are the real ones who deserve it. If it takes some (or a lot) of time after, I definitely think that that puts into question how much any player really deserves it, why did it take so long? Just throwing them a bone in a "weak" induction class? Wow that D-Rose situation is going to be a tricky one, a lot of pros AND cons towards his case. Thanks again man, your stuff is always so much fun, appreciate you.
Yeah, my beef with Schmidt is he talks about how good he would have been in the NBA. I don't think it's fair because he had the oppurtunity. Otherwise I'd leave him alone. I think Rose gets in just because of who is in control. They'll make him wait a few years, but eventually they'll let him in. He did have long career in the league and that will factor in. Ultimately I don't care who gets in. People requested this video so I obliged and got to learn a lot in the process.
I think skepticism towards Schmidt is warranted because he's certainly talked a big game about how he totally could have dominated in the NBA but chose not to. Nice little hypothetical for the Hypothetical Hall of Fame, dude
The nfl HOF is losing its standards too. But if the nba could get the nfl standards it would be a lot better. On the other hand, MLB BARELY induct players (which I respect).
@@whatslaps It sort of fits into general extreme diet/exercise/recovery that players do now. There are those oxygen tents, those weird vibrating belts they wear on the sidelines now. Ramadan is the only performance-related "diet" I know of with NBA players. There's Lamar Odom eating tons of candy but that wasn't because he thought it would make him better at basketball.
Baseball HOF and Basketball HOF are two extremes. One is literally so strict and incredibly biased. Another one is so easy and unserious that feels like any somewhat good player can make it. I mean Toni Kukoc and Michael Cooper made the HOF, they were very good players but hall of famers is kinda of a stretch.
Go on Wikipedia and look at all of Toni Kukocs accolades. It's the Basketball HoF, not NBA HoF, he doesn't just only have those three titles with the Bulls and a RotY, he's done so much more outside the NBA
Tbf he's probably a first ballot HOFer if the Trustees don't judge his cases to be damaging to the game of basketball carrying the Magic to the finals, being an integral part of the 2020 Lakers, 8 all stars, 5x all defense, 8x all nba and rebounding and blocks leader is first ballot worthy
@@whatslapsit doesn't help that he's been coming off the bench half his career, either. And not exactly as a super Sub like Michael Cooper or an early Kevin McHale.
Can you consider a player who injured himself (out of season) on his draft year and then played well in the following year a rookie - even winning the ROTY award? Ex: 1) Ben Simmons and Donovan Mitchell case - 2018 2) Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama case - 2023 (tho Wemby still won it) My opinion. I don't agree with this bcoz ROTY should be awarded to a player who literally started his career in NBA same year he entered. If you injured in your draft year, you already lose the chance to win ROTY.
The michael cooper case is weird, yes he was a key piece for all those 5x Championships with the lakers but he was never an all-star, usually coming of the bench, and also his defensive player of the year itself is devious, i like him as a player, i know eye test might say a different thing, but getting the award while only averaging 1.0 steal and 0.5 blocks doesn’t do it for me. I think magic or some other people might have pulled some strings to finally getting him in the hall of fame, that resume itself is weird. Another interesting case is Iguodala, 1x allstar, a finals mvp (lol), 4 champ and a gold medalist. I think because he got that gold medal and championships he will get in, considering the low standards and now that michael cooper is getting inducted. But if he doesn’t for some reason, he will become only the second player to not be inducted in the HOF despite winning a Finals MVP the other one being Cedric Maxwell with the Celtics in 1981.
Something interesting about Michael Cooper though is that he was the 2000 WNBA Coach of the Year and led the Sparks to two championships. I think that probably boosted his resume a lot.
Its kinda funny that you mentioned that the Baseball HoF is much choosier than the Basketball HoF. I would have said that definitively, but once I saw Harold Baines get in, I knew those days were over. Now that the flood gates are open youre seeing a lot of borderline cases gain entrance. Not that I mind in the case of Baines, who was among my favorite players of that era, but he was never the best at anything and he played for teams that never seemed to win. If it were called Hall of Very Good, Id have no issues wjth Baines getting in, but Hall of Fame? Nope. I think Canton is still the most difficult HoF to gain entrance.
I think guys like Vince and D rose get what I like to call a “culture boost”. They might not the have most amazing stats or ability on the court, but you truly see their impact when looking at the basketball community. VC brought basketball on the big screen to an entire country, he’s the pride of all Canadians
There would just be a lot more first ballot guys then - voters often think about the distinction between "first-ballot" and not, and will not vote a guy they think should be in the Hall eventually on his first attempt. If you say only first-ballot guys get in, then voters won't be able to do that anymore and will just vote in everyone they think should eventually get in right away. There should also be some mechanism for old and overlooked players to get in, but there needs to be some limits. Michael Cooper does not belong in the Hall, especially not 35yrs later - we didn't find out anything new about him in those years that suddenly made him better than he appeared in the 80's.
Had to grab my girlfriend's boyfriend off the loud bed he was on, to tell him/he that a new whatslaps vid just dropped! He was so excited he had to pull his pants back up!
The people who compared the Basketball Hall of Fame to the American Football and Baseball Hall of Fames fail to realise just how much more global basketball is in comparison. If you want to have a strictly NBA Hall of Fame, go ahead. But for basketball as a whole, Oscar Schmidt, Sergei Belov, Kresimir Cosic, Dino Meneghin and many others belong here for their contributions to basketball outside the US
happy monday whatslaps what player would you be really happy about if they got into the HoF? I think it would be cool if dame did but ima be real he hasnt really done anything 💀
Ben Simmons 3x alstar, steals champ, all nba, all rookie, Roy,2 times all defense. 14 8 and 7 career averages. "Bum shouldn't be in the nba bust". Reggie Miller 5x all star 3 times all nba 18 3 and 3 career averages. HALL OF FAMER!!!!!!! We have to push the Ben Simmons Hof narrative now so he can get in WHO WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!
It’s the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not the NBA Hall of Fame. Oscar Schmidt deserves it as much as anyone
He 100% does.
true. true.
Vince is in it for his overall impact on the game, he was one of the most popular players in the league (most all star votes in 2000) and one of the most popular people in Canada. The current generation of Canadian players in the NBA are all in there because of Vince (SGA, RJ, Murray etc.) He has more cultural impact than a Chauncey Billups could
The Vince Carter shoes were unreal too.
haha I came to comment this. Yup.
this show is in the hall of fame
you're too sweet to me.
I concur. Secretly.
First ballot
It will be
Might be a hot take but I prefer a HoF that's easier to get into than one that's super exclusive. Greatness deserves to be celebrated and you shouldn't get screwed out of the HoF (cough cough pete rose)
yeah, it's a matter of preference. I get it.
Even though the MLB HoF has several problems, I prefer a bigger bar to entry so that there's at least a pretense of competition involved. Basketball is oversaturated and ridiculous with who it lets in, like letting in a guy from 1952 who averaged 12 and 5 and who nobody's ever heard of. The MLB has issues with the Veterans Committee nepotism HoFers, absurd snubs, and inconsistent moral/integrity criteria, but the basketball hall will let in anyone with even the smallest bit of significance to advancing the game. Basketball's is a hall of very good, a hall of fame, a hall of non-professional play, and a hall of basketball ambassadors. It's too inclusive to be as meaningful as baseball's, where even the worst hall of famers were above average compared to the best players of their era. There are incredible baseball players who didn't get in because they barely missed the career WAR threshold, for instance; some of these guys were universally loved and better at baseball than VC was at basketball. That high bar makes being a baseball hall of famer way more impressive, especially given the crazy ratio of # of baseball players to # of HoFers. I get your take about appreciating greatness overall and not screwing people over, but I still think it's better to have too few than too many.
Pete Rose is a Disgusting Cheater. Shut up Kid
Do an episode on gambling. How every commercial is about gambling and its potential impact on the game and future generations.
I have one on gambling from feb 2024, but I might do another.
Def do another man that’s one of your best
I have so many thoughts about this too man, this shit is a serious problem. Like I like gambling, but it used to be "oh he's the gambler" not "gambling ads are on every 5 seconds and shirt sponsors of soccer clubs"
I love sports betting and seeing all the ads leave a bad taste in my mouth
Oscar was a huge influence for brazilian basketball, it's no coincidence that the only 3 brazilians that won the NBA (Thiago Splitter 2014, Leandro Barbosa 2015, and Anderson Varejão 2016) were from the generation that looked up to him. It's also no wonder there are no relevant brazilians now, the country didn't have as big of a star player after him.
that's a good point he influenced the game a lot. Also Kobe's favorite player.
I just wanted to thank you for the great content!
I started an NBA club in my high school and all of the members I showed your videos to found them really informative.
You made it so easy to explain stuff like the cba and advanced stats.
You also don’t stretch the length of the videos to add unnecessary fluff, which makes it easier for me, since I don’t have a lot of youtube time.
Thank you so much.
That rules dude. Love the NBA club idea, glad you started that. Happy y'all are enjoying the content and connecting through the game ❤️
Hall of Fame relevancy died for me when Vince Carter became first ballot HoF while Chris Weber had to wait for 10 years to get in. Ridiculous
yeah, I understand the justification. I get the vibe of who they like to celebrate and who they don't.
Great video as always Unc
glad you enjoyed it, player.
Very insightful as always sir. Best from the UK
thanks mate!
"Ok, the fact that you dont think Vince deserves to be in the hall of fame for best dunk in the olympics of all time really makes me question your integrity. You think the hall of fame is about accolades and career accomplishments but I think its about jumping really high..." which is how I imagine most hall of fame decisions are made.
Absolutely. When Keon Johnson broke the combine record they penciled him into the Hall of Fame immediately. ;)
nah man, schimidt lead brazil to beat US in pan american games, he was consistently tested against americans in the international scene
Kobe's favorite player too
Your channel is so entertaining.You’re gonna be on tv one day bro
get the youtube app on your smartTV and I'm already there, baby!
This is exactly the type of stuff we need that good ‘ole Mickey Mouse won’t let ESPN talk about
Mickey Mouse content, baby!
in my opinion, everyone who wins the NBAs most valuable player should be in the hall of fame. its a really exclusive club and such an incredible achievement
Rose's case is tough tho, he really fell off a cliff due to the injuries very quickly after that MVP (that he really only got b/c the NBA world was mad at Lebron). Is a single MVP and literally nothing else enough to crack the Hall? Debatable.
agreed.
@@burkedestounis3818 His impact on the game is getting him in, every kid from the 2010s wanted to play like Rose (Some kid named Temetrius is out in the league and is basically the second coming of rose). An Mvp, two gold medal, multiple allstars and an all-nba 1st team is a hefty resume for a guy who played 5 or so good seasons.
watching from the philippines man, here before your channel explodes. keep up the great work
love the support. more videos to come. shoutout my Filipino brothers!
I’ve always been annoyed with how easy it is to get into the basketball hall. It’s the sympathy hall of fame. There are too many hall of very good players in the actual hall of fame. I really believe it should be strict to get in. I come from the school of thought that if there is a debate, you aren’t in. It should be for no doubters. There should really only be like 30-40 guys in history in the hall of fame. I would even be strict about allowing guys like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green into the hall and I’m a die hard Warriors fan born and raised in the Bay Area. It should be really really unfairly hard to get in. We have so many stats like all nba, all star, MVP, etc. that describe a ton of all time great players, but there should be a further classification above all that designated for only the absolute best of best of their respective generations, and that’s what I would want the ball of fame to be. This is why I preface every discussion I’ve ever had with someone about “should x make the hall?” by reminding the person I’m talking to that the basketball hall of fame is the easiest hall of fame to get into. I have this discussion every year when my dad says to me “can you believe x made the hall of fame, he shouldn’t be in?”
Yeah, they should just make it a "remember that guy?" type thing. Just make it a party.
7:17 I see it this way, if D-Rose had this resume in NFL or Baseball, he would just be hall of very good/what if. Since MVPs not making the MLB and NFL hall of fame is very common. But in the NBA it just feels wrong excluding an mvp, especially the youngest MVP ever. That's not a story you can't not include in the hall of fame.
I agree. You can get into the hall with talent or a narrative.
Very informative. Keep it up, I love your videos!!!
thanx. I won't stop!
Latrell Sprewell is one example of a player who had an issue which stops him from HOF and that was chocking PJ Carlesemo in 1997. Latrell Sprewell is a HOF type player with the Warriors, Knicks and Timberwolves.
The person who picked Chauncey Billups to be HOF doesn't know basketball. A NBA Title is not a criteria for HOF, unless you're a Charles Oakley (who if he won with MJ and the Bulls or Pat Ewing and the Knicks, he would definitely be in the HOF due to his impact on the court), which is like a Dennis Rodman (All Star with the Pistons, under the radar, yet showed his HOF status with the Bulls on their 2nd three peat). If you picked Chauncey Billups (even if he is Finals MVP) to go HOF, then you must pick Robert Horry, Derek Fisher and Vernon Maxwell to be in the HOF because they won NBA Titles. You have much better basketball players who did not win the NBA Title who are much more deserving to be in the HOF than Chauncey Billups.
Spreewell was sick as a Knick. One of the most memorable players from my childhood.
The biggest joke is having rich spectators in HOF
I heard about that. So embarrassing.
To argue for Michael Cooper's case: he was the original 3 and D player, an archetype that's only become more and more important and relevant to the sport as time goes on. We basically have him to thank for when we talk about guys like Klay Thompson who for sure is going to make the Hall of Fame someday.
word. I wasn't trying to come across like I didn't think he should be in. I just thought it was interesting how long it took.
I don’t get how you don’t have like 500k subs, this channel has such great and niche topics
thanks man! I appreciate it. Niche topic Niche base.
“You can’t tell the story of basketball without Rose” I love this channel fam but I actually laughed out loud at that statement
maybe it's a sports/comedy channel? ;)
@@whatslaps lol I definitely find you funny as well as insightful, I appreciate how gracious you are in the replies even when I disagree
On players getting in after a lot of time has passed:
This has to stay that way. There's going to be players that are doing things that aren't as widely understood in their own era, but after enough time has passed, the consensus on what their contributions to the game were will change to be more favorable. Not a perfect example, but Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot HoFer (only took him one more year) because "he never won a championship". You can't tell the story of the 3 point revolution (with Ray Allen and Steph) without including the guy they looked up to (Reggie). Then there's guys like Dennis Johnson, who was a Finals MVP, then won 2 more with Bird and the Celtics, retired in 1990, and somehow didn't get inducted until after his untimely death in 2007... I think there's always going to be committee members that argue for certain players (or types of players) based on their personal tastes (usually players that are good at offense, because that drives sales) and against other players (and types of players) because they don't necessarily appreciate the skill and talent involved on the defensive end (or whatever the case may be). In other sports, like the Pro Football HoF, there used to be this dumb argument that "Wide Receivers with under 1000 catches don't get consider, because we should draw a line in the sand somewhere" which is really stupid gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping, and kept guys like Andre Reed and Tim Brown out for way longer than they deserved.
What's going to be wild though? The first year Kawhi is eligible. I cannot think of a polarizing athlete in terms of talent when healthy, and negative media attention for... trying to keep himself healthy...
For me I would be shook if Kawhi didn't get in as a first ballot guy. Not because I'm a huge fan, but because of how much he's accomplished. People would have to be really impacted by his inconsistency in the second half of his career.
@whatslaps I have a very similar opinion, but you have to keep in mind that some number of HoF voters are going to be media/news people. For all we know a guy like Stephen A Smith (who has very vocally blasted Kawhi as "the worst super star ever") is a voter...
Nick if you see this, Brazil mentioned RAAAHHHHHHH
Yeah Nick!!
Thanks!
Nah, Thank you!
Every hall of fame is a complete joke. I wouldn't go to any of them
yeah, the whole concept of the hall of fame is a little bit toxic imo
Liking the video again without watching it, knowing its good content ❤🔥💯
trust.
Vince wasn’t in more All NBA teams because of his position, back then you had to be the top of your position to make it in, that’s why Centers barely made it in regardless of talent.
Yeah, for sure. Who else was at the wing back then?
Bro keep making vids ur on top right now
I'll do it for you, baby!
Do a video about how some teams retire way to many player numbers. It’s so weird how the raptors are retiring Vince Carter given how everything finished and he didn’t even accomplished that much with them
He established Toronto on the NBA map, was the most popular player in the league while he was with them (#1 All Star vote getter for like 4 yrs straight iirc), was at his best when he played for them, and Raps fans long ago forgave him for the less than ideal exit. He should definitely get his number retired with the Raps. Maybe if he had the same career and had started in like Boston or LA instead of TO, you could say those teams shouldn't retire his number b/c they're running out of numbers to put in the rafters, but most NBA teams don't have that issue.
that might be good. I think the Celtics Lakers history would be good. talk about all the retired jersey and what not.
Storytelling and transitions in this one were elite
thanks, man! always appreciate the encouragement!
He was racking those suckers up in the Brazilian and Italian league,, ur words are so majestic
I shouldn't have called them bums. That was too far.
I believe since basketball is was more international than Baseball and (American) Football the barrier to entry must be adjusted to accommodate that. A hall of famer from who only plays in Europe may not have the same amount of talent as one who played in the NBA, but it does not take away his dominance in his league and / or international. Also, the international game matters more to players outiside of the US.
that's a great point. I never considered the popularity internationally of sport vs the size of it's hall of fame.
I always hit the like while the commercials are still playing
thanks! It's crazy how much the likes help give the vids more exposure.
You should do a video about undersized players regardless of position please
positionless basketball would be good.
It's a joke because Bill Laimbeer (2x champion, pretty much the first stretch 5 ever, multiple time all-star at a time when the eastern conference was crowded with amazing centers, rebounding champion) isn't in
I rest my case
And career losers like carmelo anthony and chris paul theoretically will be 😂
@@abrahamgn3614 bro are you seriously trying to say Chris Paul isn't a Hall of Famer 😭
Probably getting blocked by the trustees
@@whatslaps probably getting blocked by everyone he elbowed in the 80s to be completely honest, haha
@@whatslaps MJ, Magic and Bird probably all had a lot to say about Laimbeer's worthiness. He was also about as popular with the media as Barry Bonds was. But how many professional athletes have a video game with their name in the title and AREN'T HoF'ers? Because Bill Laimbeer does! That's worth a Hall pass imo
Video idea: does flopping/dirty plays work?
yeah, but I feel like I kinda covered that in the last video. I know what you're sayin though.
@@whatslaps maybe that's why it was on my mind 😅
yeah it’s the hall of very good, but if it’s stricter with its inductions then everyone starts complaining about how annoying and stuck up the voters are so eh. also I’d like to take the time here to say that what cwebb did is completely different to what barry bonds and pete rose did. bonds and rose both made decisions to lower the integrity of the league they played in and their accomplishments as well (bonds gets a slight exoneration considering that basically every baseball player at that time was using steroids) cwebb took money from a booster to PLAY at a specific college. yeah it’s “against the rules” but the fab five brought so much publicity to the university of michigan and they weren’t allowed to take money at all. those rules were insane, idiotic, and extremely exploitative. they should have been broken.
agreed. Cwebb was young too, probably didn't think through his actions. Glad he made it into the hall.
Oscar Schmidt gave it all to Brazilian National Team. His gold medal in 1987 Pan-American is one of the reasons why Dream Team came to fruition
that's true. After making this video I have more respect for Schmidt.
damn the media does a good job of covering up these cases, like i dont think they're completely hidden but you gotta wanna find it to know about it so it seems
if you don't remember the cases from when they happened, you'll only remember when they get a coaching job later.
@@whatslaps Rick Brunson unfortunately
Honestly I think Baseball hall is way too stingey (and sometimes NFL). One thing about NBA hall is that for the most part its easy to make in that there's rarely any controversy. That's not the case with Baseball (and occasionally NFL), you could ask a die hard fan and they could give a whole list of players that easily have a Hall of Fame resume that should be in and the only reason is they have such an insane backlog, favoritism, or back then the way they looked at stats was alot different. It's actually kinda ridiculous.
Baseball is so old school. I kind of like how stingey it is though. Makes the induction have a little more meaning. Honestly though I don't really care.
This Danny Biasone slander will not be tolerated. Man saved basketball
Tell him I'm sorry.
man love the content of the video's, its very informative (especially as a dutch guy that just now is getting into NBA). I am learning a ton, and I love it. But man, these edits give me anxiety. Watching this is like drinking 4 redbulls while on coke and mushrooms simultaniously. It feels like a 10 minute hyperactive tiktok marathon. I personally would appreciate it very much if you would turn it down a bit with the overlay snap cuts, inserted snap sounds, etc. You have a very own style, which is very nice, try to keep that, but just build in a bit more tranquillity in your edits 🙏
thanks man! you might the long videos I do on my shorts channel @whatshorts
Wait! How did Kobe get in there?
for sure
hof when you are half human, half amazing. michael cooper sounds familiar but shouldnt hof
remember half man half amazing from the and1 mixtapes?
My guy looks like george kittle
I get that a lot. I don't hate it.
i think this is kinda misunderstanding what the basketball hall of fame is about and what hall of fames are as a whole. they arent meant to basically be leaderboards or checkpoints for how good u r, its about impact at any point. vince is in the hall of fame bc of his cultural impact with his dunking and the raptors jersey that he made legendary with his highlights. if ur gonna use the metric of "u cant tell the story of basketball history without them" its hard to argue that vince carter doesnt have a big part in changing the way people dunked the ball and how the way he played and his flair enticed the music and rap world and really helped start the connection between basketball and rap. theres so many people that u can make an elongated argument like that that it makes sense why the basketball hall of fame has so many people. basketball as a sport is so inherently individualistic while being a team sport that it caters towards creating legendary stories about single players over and over and over again seemingly more than other sports. they announced this year that they r adding Spike Lee, Jack Nicholson, Billy Crystal and sold old rich real estate dude 76rs fans as hall of fame super fans this year. i think that is what the hall of fame should be. i think hall of fames as a whole should be about ur impact on the sport in any sense. the hall of fame is meant to be a puzzle of the story of basketball with the pieces being the inductees. u cant talk abt basketball without talking abt super fans like spike or media members like woj
That's really interesting. Spike and Jack in the hall takes this to a new level. Kind of reframes the whole thing for me.
It’s the Naismith basketball HOF not the NBA HOF and what you’re criticizing it for is what makes it great that on any level in any country from HS such as coach Bob Hurley sr to Scmidht all time NBA/Euro league greats can make it. It’s arguable that Football would benefit from consolidating the HS, college, and NFL into one HOF similar to basketball considering there are some truly great HS and college players that for one reason or another never made it to the NFL. New to the channel just subbed, even though I don’t agree with your take truly enjoyed the vid.
Yeah, I agree. my perspective has changed a bit since I released this. I'm glad the NBA did the top 75 and made it more of a mini hall of fame just for NBA players. Thanks for the sub, man!
I think european legends and other non nba players who do something for the sport should definitely get into the HOF its still to much a NBA Hall of Fame
I think that's the real answer. It's that it's about basketball itself as a game more than as a spectator sport.
You’re in my HoF.
awe. same, Dad!
Interesting take about Schmidt. Dude certainly put up some major numbers throughout a very long career, but that big fish in a small pond argument is valid, good evaluation. The who gets to vote inductees is a good one too, not sure I ever really thought about that too much, but it is important in understanding how people get in. I agree that first ballot guys are the truest purest form of hall-of-famers. If there is no doubt that a guy should get in as soon as they are eligible pretty much means those are the real ones who deserve it. If it takes some (or a lot) of time after, I definitely think that that puts into question how much any player really deserves it, why did it take so long? Just throwing them a bone in a "weak" induction class? Wow that D-Rose situation is going to be a tricky one, a lot of pros AND cons towards his case. Thanks again man, your stuff is always so much fun, appreciate you.
Yeah, my beef with Schmidt is he talks about how good he would have been in the NBA. I don't think it's fair because he had the oppurtunity. Otherwise I'd leave him alone. I think Rose gets in just because of who is in control. They'll make him wait a few years, but eventually they'll let him in. He did have long career in the league and that will factor in. Ultimately I don't care who gets in. People requested this video so I obliged and got to learn a lot in the process.
I think skepticism towards Schmidt is warranted because he's certainly talked a big game about how he totally could have dominated in the NBA but chose not to. Nice little hypothetical for the Hypothetical Hall of Fame, dude
thanks for being on my side ❤️
The nfl HOF is losing its standards too. But if the nba could get the nfl standards it would be a lot better. On the other hand, MLB BARELY induct players (which I respect).
agreed. In MLB even casuals know the names.
@@whatslaps Ray Schalk lol. The MLB hall of fame is easily as dumb as any of the others.
love ya big dawg,
love ya back
watch all of them, there are some CRAZY stories about fans just ending the game early, fighting everyone
I'll check em out for sure.
Maybe a vid on the greatest sixth man or why the sixth man is better as a sixth man rather then a starter
I got one from February 2024
Really happy Gasol is getting into it
Marc?
@@whatslaps ups got
Wrong tense
What about an episode about how players handle Ramadan and if it makes a noticeable difference in their performance
I'd have to figure out a broader topic to work it into. got any ideas?
@@whatslaps It sort of fits into general extreme diet/exercise/recovery that players do now. There are those oxygen tents, those weird vibrating belts they wear on the sidelines now. Ramadan is the only performance-related "diet" I know of with NBA players. There's Lamar Odom eating tons of candy but that wasn't because he thought it would make him better at basketball.
Baseball HOF and Basketball HOF are two extremes. One is literally so strict and incredibly biased. Another one is so easy and unserious that feels like any somewhat good player can make it. I mean Toni Kukoc and Michael Cooper made the HOF, they were very good players but hall of famers is kinda of a stretch.
Go on Wikipedia and look at all of Toni Kukocs accolades. It's the Basketball HoF, not NBA HoF, he doesn't just only have those three titles with the Bulls and a RotY, he's done so much more outside the NBA
remeber it includes everything you did in your basketball career not just the nba
I think it's good to have the duality.
@@TheMarslMcFly after looking at his resume, I think I underestimate how good Toni Kukoc was
Getting in the Hall of Fame is about popularity rather than accomplishments. Just look at Dwight Howard that man got screwed over for the top 75 list.
Tbf he's probably a first ballot HOFer if the Trustees don't judge his cases to be damaging to the game of basketball carrying the Magic to the finals, being an integral part of the 2020 Lakers, 8 all stars, 5x all defense, 8x all nba and rebounding and blocks leader is first ballot worthy
I know. I think they're are some people who have a personal beef with Dwight.
@@whatslapsit doesn't help that he's been coming off the bench half his career, either. And not exactly as a super Sub like Michael Cooper or an early Kevin McHale.
Can you consider a player who injured himself (out of season) on his draft year and then played well in the following year a rookie - even winning the ROTY award?
Ex:
1) Ben Simmons and Donovan Mitchell case - 2018
2) Chet Holmgren and Victor Wembanyama case - 2023 (tho Wemby still won it)
My opinion. I don't agree with this bcoz ROTY should be awarded to a player who literally started his career in NBA same year he entered.
If you injured in your draft year, you already lose the chance to win ROTY.
I personally think it should only be for a player's first eligible year of NBA basketball.
The michael cooper case is weird, yes he was a key piece for all those 5x Championships with the lakers but he was never an all-star, usually coming of the bench, and also his defensive player of the year itself is devious, i like him as a player, i know eye test might say a different thing, but getting the award while only averaging 1.0 steal and 0.5 blocks doesn’t do it for me. I think magic or some other people might have pulled some strings to finally getting him in the hall of fame, that resume itself is weird.
Another interesting case is Iguodala, 1x allstar, a finals mvp (lol), 4 champ and a gold medalist. I think because he got that gold medal and championships he will get in, considering the low standards and now that michael cooper is getting inducted. But if he doesn’t for some reason, he will become only the second player to not be inducted in the HOF despite winning a Finals MVP the other one being Cedric Maxwell with the Celtics in 1981.
i think they'll let iggy in the flood gates are open. Lambier and aguirre will get in too.
Something interesting about Michael Cooper though is that he was the 2000 WNBA Coach of the Year and led the Sparks to two championships. I think that probably boosted his resume a lot.
I came here for Kentucky Colonels highlights but stayed for the hat
don't care why you came, but just happy you stayed ❤️
The guy who invented the shot clock absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
haha, it was actually two guys and only one of them is.
@@whatslaps Oh, really? People need to start a petition for the other guy.
Its kinda funny that you mentioned that the Baseball HoF is much choosier than the Basketball HoF.
I would have said that definitively, but once I saw Harold Baines get in, I knew those days were over. Now that the flood gates are open youre seeing a lot of borderline cases gain entrance. Not that I mind in the case of Baines, who was among my favorite players of that era, but he was never the best at anything and he played for teams that never seemed to win.
If it were called Hall of Very Good, Id have no issues wjth Baines getting in, but Hall of Fame? Nope.
I think Canton is still the most difficult HoF to gain entrance.
I gotta check out Harold Baines wiki
please humor me.
If you could go back in time for this year laker offseason what would you change?
Hard to say. Wouldn't have drafted Bronny. TBH I would have blown it up the summer of 2023.It's the Lakers though, so they operate differently.
Oscar Schmidt is well knkwn too people over 50
that's true. He gets a lot of respect.
I'm going to say kawhi is a 50/50 honestly
u better walk around like Daft Punk
I think guys like Vince and D rose get what I like to call a “culture boost”. They might not the have most amazing stats or ability on the court, but you truly see their impact when looking at the basketball community. VC brought basketball on the big screen to an entire country, he’s the pride of all Canadians
yeah, he had a lot of selling points like that. First Ballot makes sense.
Hall of fame should only be 1st ballot players imo
There would just be a lot more first ballot guys then - voters often think about the distinction between "first-ballot" and not, and will not vote a guy they think should be in the Hall eventually on his first attempt. If you say only first-ballot guys get in, then voters won't be able to do that anymore and will just vote in everyone they think should eventually get in right away. There should also be some mechanism for old and overlooked players to get in, but there needs to be some limits. Michael Cooper does not belong in the Hall, especially not 35yrs later - we didn't find out anything new about him in those years that suddenly made him better than he appeared in the 80's.
agreed, but I don't really care that much tbh
I think there could be a general bball hall of fame and a NBA hall of fame.
agreed. there's pro and college football hall of fames
I always love when I see that you dropped
that's good to hear, player.
BRAZIL MENTIONED 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 🇧🇷 why can't we kick the basketball tho
you gotta change the game, don't let the game change you. ⚽
I should be in the hall of fame
call your congressman.
Had to grab my girlfriend's boyfriend off the loud bed he was on, to tell him/he that a new whatslaps vid just dropped! He was so excited he had to pull his pants back up!
Also shoutout for you using Adrian Beltre's MLB HOF Induction footage in your video! Greatest 3rd baseman ever, go Rangers!
Love triangles love whatslaps. Let's go Rangers!
The people who compared the Basketball Hall of Fame to the American Football and Baseball Hall of Fames fail to realise just how much more global basketball is in comparison.
If you want to have a strictly NBA Hall of Fame, go ahead. But for basketball as a whole, Oscar Schmidt, Sergei Belov, Kresimir Cosic, Dino Meneghin and many others belong here for their contributions to basketball outside the US
Someone else brought this point up and I really hadn't to considered that. Sometimes I forget the US isn't the center of the universe.
You like SGA? Thank Vince .
I thank Vince everyday 🙏
Think you could make a video on the WNBA?
yeah, definitely. I gotta make sure I have the time for the research.
Schmidt is actually a top 100 player to touch a basketball imo, watch the tape, dude was lethal
yeah kobe said that too. I guess he was his favorite player.
Ive seen enough. Woj, welcome to the hall of fame
THe woj glazing is crazy
Patty Mills is a hall of famer
of course
happy monday whatslaps
what player would you be really happy about if they got into the HoF?
I think it would be cool if dame did but ima be real he hasnt really done anything 💀
Dame is in for sure. Anyone who was in the top 75 is in first ballot imo. I'd like to see Dwight get in.
Ben Simmons 3x alstar, steals champ, all nba, all rookie, Roy,2 times all defense. 14 8 and 7 career averages. "Bum shouldn't be in the nba bust". Reggie Miller 5x all star 3 times all nba 18 3 and 3 career averages. HALL OF FAMER!!!!!!! We have to push the Ben Simmons Hof narrative now so he can get in WHO WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!
Let's go!! Ben Simmons for prezidint!
@@whatslaps facts can't wait for his Hof speech where he thanks Kendall Jenner. And than Devin Booker runs on the stage to fight him.
Can I get into the hall of fame?
I'll make some calls.
@@whatslaps Commissioner Slaps recognizing my contributions to the game
Oscar Schmidt actually torched American players
Kobe's favorite player
@ I didn’t know that tbh
crazy that karl malone got in tho
I think a lot of that stuff became public knowledge after his induction.
oscar schmidt our goat
oh yeah, I should have gone easier on schmidt. Forgot about all the Brazilians! 😳
D.rose my goat
shoutout d rose
Wow before the bots
Haven't seen one in a while actually.
Typical w whatslaps vid
w comment from unodinero of course.
i love u goat
love u back
👀
👀
Personally, do you think that Derrick Rose should be in the Hall of Fame?
Winning an MVP is more than enough to get you a spot in the Hall of Fame.
I think he'll be a first ballot.
this is dumb and has annoying head talker
I've seen a few of this guys videos now. They've all been trash. I blocked him.