This is How Japanese Players See FE7 Units?
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- Wow, Karel REALLY fell off between FE6 and FE7. Marcus? He's a 1/10.
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I think it's worth pointing out that the way you're comparing the English and Japanese community opinions might be a bit of an apples and oranges scenario. The English community you're referring to is a fairly niche RUclips-based group who spend lots of time theorycracting how to play through the same game over and over again as quickly as possible - a community who's opinions you yourself had a very large role in forming, I might add - whereas I'm willing to bet that these Japanese popularity scores come from something like a magazine sweepstake, including the opinions of every 8-year-old who played the game once and then never touched it again. I think if you took the opinions of every English-speaking player, they would much more closely resemble the Japanese opinions.
For example, if you were to take a random sample of 3H unit opinions from commentors on Rengor's RUclips videos, and then take a sample of 3H unit opinions from 3H fans at large, the "general opinions" you'd get would likely be fairly different from one another.
I don't think the FE youtuber community opinions are solely based on max efficiency tbh. I play these pretty casually and a lot of the advice is still useful and makes the games more enjoyable. Stuff like not using Jagens is something I used to do as a kid, but it makes the game way more fun to use the tools the game gives you.
The pitfall about using one of every unit doesn't even apply just to FE. I stopped worrying about that in most strategy games and stacking up on relevant units that are tailored for a map or an objective makes it a lot more fun!
@@yoso378 You're right, but I think the broader point I made still stands. Those pointers definitely make the games more fun, but I don't think it's arguable to say they're intuitive, otherwise they wouldn't be pitfalls. Nearly everyone benches their Jagen on their first FE playthrough because he's so good we assume there must be a catch to it. Nearly everyone starts by trying to balance their parties because why else would the devs include different classes if they weren't all going to come in handy eventually? It's by talking to other players, especially ones who know what they're doing that we overcome these issues.
If you're comparing the consensus of "people who care enough to try to get better" in one country to "everyone who has ever beaten the game ever" in another country, I don't think that's a fair comparison.
I dunno about that... I definitely abused Marcus until I looked at forums and GameFAQs guides told me it was a terrible idea and he would be a XP sponge. I definitely wouldn't have made the irritating effort of leveling up Nino if people didn't tell me that she was an amazing unit either.
The class thing is definitely something that is understandable but I'd say most of them have a use. I was more talking about fielding 1 of every class when possible on every map instead of doubling up on stuff that fit the current map better.
@@Drayze1 "Nearly everyone benches their Jagen on their first FE playthrough because he's so good we assume there must be a catch to it."
There is a clear catch to it too, most units usages reward you with shiny EXP gain and all those cool and satisfying +1 when you gain a level (and randomized too, which makes them all the more addictive). I mean sure from an efficiency perspective it's terrible but training a bad unit to become good is awfully rewarding in the Fire Emblem series :)
This is 100% a point that not many people in the FE community get most of the time. This is an extremely niche section of FE fans. You'd be surprised how little your average FE player knows or cares about a lot of stuff the FE niche community does.
You never see anyone talk about bases vs growths outside of this section of FE fans because the majority of FE players don't even know random stat growths are a thing for example. They're not really paying attention to any of those numbers, just the level
Let's see what 2009 level takes we'll discuss today
As a Japanese, I don’t think your impression is wrong or outdated. IMO Japanese fandom clearly tends to prefer raising units to relying on the already-strong units. (I'm not sure where some inconsistency is coming from, though.)
Even in 2023, the unit/class evaluation of the Japanese fandom is somewhat end-game focus, and still subject to “pitfall” misconceptions, although the situation is constantly changing to that of the Westerns. Many still believe like Jagen exp-stealing, lv20 class-change etc. Not all of us can see and understand Mekkah’s pitfall videos, so…
I frequently look at かわき茶亭, like a Japanese equivalent of Serenes Forest which everyone can edit or leave comments on (and I assume that its users are not beginners). And there are comments like ‘There is no other choice but to sacrifice Jagen!’ in the Prologues in FE11 or questions like ‘I think it is a staple to class-change a unit in level 20, but is this also true to Engage?’, both of which were left in 2023.
The focus on endgame in something like FE11 confuses me since the earlygame is much much harder than the final few chapters of the game? Do Japanese players not play on Hard 5, because otherwise it's hard to see the reasoning for not using Jagen at all in FE11.
"And there are comments like ‘There is no other choice but to sacrifice Jagen!’ in the Prologues in FE11"
I wonder what they think of Excelblem's playthroughs. Mega-lol.
@@vanjagalovic3621 Could be wrong, but doesen't the prologue get skipped if your playing any of the Hard mode's?
In which case, it's not as much of an issue not using Jaegan if your not playing Hard mode 1-5.
@@vanjagalovic3621sacrifice Jeigan implies Normal mode
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Marcus globetrotted across Elibe TWICE and this is how the fandom repays that gigachad. The state of this fandom, SMH.
Top fire emblem Chad.
I'll never forgive the Japanese!
I love the thing about Japanes players being pissed off about Rath now being weak to horseslaying weapons. Meanwhile Westerners get pissed off when going back to FE6 and finding out that horseslaying weapons AREN'T effective against Nomads.
It's also worth noting that FE7 had triple effectiveness in Japan so Archers are better in the Japanese version, this might be why Rebecca is higher as well.
Very true
Unless there's a significant difference in enemy stats it shouldn't matter, as Wyverns aren't particularly noteworthy and Pegasi are downright pathetic in FE7.
Flier effectiveness just isn't in nearly as much demand in FE7/8 compared to FE6, or more modern titles such as Conquest or Engage, where enemy fliers pose a significant threat, wich means you don't have any reason to deal with Wil/Rebecca's atrocious bases.
@@growasowa3444 I'd have to check if FE7 got the same treatment as FE8 where it is easier for the international releases of the game. If it is the case where it would matter then I would obviously say that Archers are better, but their poor bases are an issue still
In FE7 a bunch of bosses (FFO and after) got nerfed from JP -> international but generics stayed the same. Boss nerfs are -3 Speed -1 to all other stats usually. (Also thrones are stronger on top of that)
I'm really enjoying these comparisons, I know they are probably a lot of work and longer videos but I love them! Thanks for the info!
Hi, its annoying that Tumblr doesn't show the dates of their posts, but its still possible to find the creation or publication date. Viewing the page source of that post returns the date 2018-02-22, or February the 22nd 2018.
I was more surprised to learn that not everyone loves Hector. Although gotta say, I can definitely see the point of Hector having the same issue as Roy, which is a very late promotion as main character.
But unlike Roy, Hector fortunately has decent bases and isn't trying to seize castles after castles, sometimes his good physical defense comes in real handy.
Hector is also in a game where the enemies are hot garbo, so even with his late as hell (and rather underwhelming) promotion he can still put in some real work.
@@maltheopiaHector: I finally promote, what did I obtain?
Game: 0 extra movement, underwhelming stats outside res and speed, swords, the worst type of weapon and a weakness to hammers so you are now a worse general.
Hector: That stinks.
I'm a little mad that Nino is ranked so low by Japanese Fire Emblem fans but that anger is subsided when i see Ninian in S teir
You know, I always figured Japanese players were better somehow. Like, every game before at least shadow dragon made the games easier in some way or another. Plus they had Thracia, and all these wild difficulty hacks for older games. but I guess having difficult games doesn’t necessarily translate into wanting to theory craft
Well, Karla is at the bottom, so all is forgiven. Karla fans must have cried tears of joy upon seeing her in Heroes.
My mind has broken at seeing Lyn as the 6th best unit in the game.
There is no metric by which she does this.
I could see a madman putting her in the middle of the game on the "I dumped every single statbooster into her, and she was great!" argument, but even if you do Lyn mode and level her a bit, she's awful.
I could see an argument like that for, say, unpromoted Eliwood. He has many of the same issues as Lyn, but he has just enough offense to ORKO FE7's garbo enemies, especially if you play slowly and don't mind cleaning up the 2+/1-2 range enemies that didn't suicide into him.
Can't see that for Lyn at all. Even if her stats do turn out, she still has a real problem ORKOing even 1-range enemies without the Killing Edge or excessive grinding of XP/supports.
I dunno if I'd go as far to call her awful you're thinking about Lyn mode to Eliwood normal mode and feeding her the stat boosters. There's a LOT of statboosters in Lyn mode lol. If you were to favor her she'd come out the game swinging, pretty reliably ORKOing all the axe users and the even the lance users since most of them are cavs early game.
She's definitely not good, but FE7 isn't that hard either. If you were to favor her heavily in Lyn mode, she's walk into Eliwood with around 29 HP, 10 strength, 14 speed, and 4 defense. That's quite usable.
Even if you baby her and max her out, her low caps make her bad even with massive resources dumped into her.
Literally all she has going for her is the Mani Katti. Once you're past Ch 18 or so, she's a mandatory deploy that will barely contribute anything each chapter. And because she's a mandatory deploy you're FORCED to see how bad she is.
Is that part of her high ranking? That she doesn't take a deployment slot? But that comes with the "she dies, it's game over" down-side, so I don't know if I'd count that as a pure bonus.
If you play through Lynn mode first she is better then him. Without playing through Lynn mode Eliwood is only better after promotion before he has only more bulk but got a worse weapon and less speed.
She's fun, pretty, and has good sprites. There's your metric.
Ooooooooo the highly anticipated sequel
I would love to see FE 6 or 9 next. Path of radiance has one of the more strange changes to its difficulty when being brought over to the west, so seeing what JP players think of FE 9, would be great.
Same way with 6, except it's actually harder and is a jp only exclusive.
So I've been playing through Lyn + Hector Hard Mode for the first time recently, and I got a ridiculously blessed Sain in Lyn's story, with >80% of his levels having Str/Spd/Def. Obviously I promoted him in Lyn's story, thinking I'd have a complete monster on par with Marcus on my hands once I got him back.
But nope! Sain has slightly better Str and Spd, but everything else is still much worse than Marcus, meaning Marcus gets to see more combat and continues to stay ahead! How did anyone EVER think that Marcus is bad?
As for Lyn... I wanted to train her up so I could go for Linus's FFO, but she's so horrendous that I ended up using restore points and the C21 arena to drag her and Eliwood up.
My first play through Sain was blessed. I thought he was the best character in the game before I ever knew of unit growths or how the game generally worked. I just went head strong. As much as I enjoy fast striking sword users like Erika and Lyn, even without the 2 attack space, being dependent on high speed and luck to increase dodge means you are only living off pure luck. Through a full game, you’ll lose for sure. It’s how my Thea has been planing in my Anderson Saga iron man. So good but dies to 2 hits.
I think in my early years playing FE7 it wasn’t so much that I thought Marcus was a bad unit, but I was drawn in by all the classes and fell into a completely different pitfall with a similar result. Ended up getting benched once the slots started filling up and I felt like I’d have at least 2 more Cavs if I wanted another paladin. But I did use him as a chip bot for almost the whole time. After understanding how growths&bases work definitely changed my outlook on future playthroughs though and I only recently tried HHM so I now understand just why he’s such a crazy unit 😅
Its pretty easy to grind Sain or Kent to 20-1 in Lyn hard mode if you really want a better Marcus
@@ziegfeld4131 Believe it or not, the two stats that I've cursed my Sain for not being better at are exactly the two stats that base Marcus beats 20/1 Sain in. Plus Marcus existing means I didn't have to waste an extra hour grinding out another 8 or 9 levels. But the point isn't that Sain can't catch Marcus, because he can; it's that Marcus is amazing regardless.
@@aclashoffireandice4084 sains far better only if you have trash luck even then i would bench marcus
You think the arena multiplayer dueling mode factors in? their love for mentioning horseslaying weapons implies that they're facing them a lot
It is also x3 effectiveness in the Japamese version
@@alejandro_rodriguez_99 true but that doesn't really matter that much if you don't run into them.
Something i think might contribute to Lyn's ranking is that Lyn mode is easy to rig good levels in. Its a very reliable campaign, so taking the extra time to get good rng isnt as risky as later modes are and will result in an overpowered Lyn.
This is funny to see. This is MUCH closer to how I intuitively ranked them in my head when I was younger, before there were really tierlists or a thriving online community.
This post is from February 21, 2018. If you have a tumblr account, you can turn on time stamps, the view the blog with the generic tumblr formatting by replacing the "historyoftheemblem" bit with www, then putting the "historyoftheemblem" back in place of the word post. Also, the link in the description is to the fe8 post, which is from August 13, 2017.
How could they do my man Marcus like this
Rating the dancers on their growths was the most wtf thing for me lol.
Also yes, ranking guy that much lower than lynn when they’re basically the same unit.
Also I get it re pent. I was surprised I put all this effort into erk and he ended up way worse than pent
Also who the f cares about hawk eyes’s growths!! He doesn’t need growths!!!
If you play Lyn Mode, then Lyn has the potential to gain a couple levels before Guy joins. Lyn also has one of the best swords in the game.
The entries the blogger wrote for each unit are short enough that it's often difficult to glean much of the reasoning.
Idk, I think it's kind of fair to say that desert items are something that shouldn't always be taken into account because they are so easily missable without a guide. Same with secret shops. Having a promotion item be desert exclusive is probably a bigger downside to a units viability than players that have memorized every detail about the game give it credit for.
Something to take note is that this looks like players that probably only played the game 1-2 times and call it the day. Which kind of makes sense , most of their ratings and reviews , are super close to how "i used ro rate units". If we go and ask every person that had played at FE7 at least once and ask their opinion , they would think "Hector is a BEAST" , "OSWIN IS A BEAST" , etc.
This kind of reminds me when a lot of players that played casual mode and normal mode on FE Engage , were rating "units that do horribly on lunatic" as like S tier lmao.
To me, the ratings felt a lot like they were rating whether a unit can be good in end game and if that’s given, any grinding you can put into a unit makes like 60% of the ratings (the more stats gained through grinding the better the rating). Pair that with a one class per roster rule and bam you have these ratings. There are exceptions of course.
That being said, I don’t think that’s a thing of t he Japanese FE community in General but more so a general fe Player thing. I feel like we’re just a rather small bubble who dove way deeper into the games mechanics than 90% of players ever do
Bartee probably has an abnormally high score that is throwing off the ratings of characters like Dorcas and Hawkeye because he was in FE6 and people are likely playing him more because of it and biasing themselves towards him.
From my perspective, Rebecca and wil suck since it feels like they can never actually kill anything. But with triple effectiveness they are probably able to kill fliers which they normally can't with just double damage. They still wouldn't probably shouldn't be rated as high as they were, but at least they can do more than pathetic chip damage
Re: your point Eliwood and benchmarks.
Do you really not think a unit's capability of missing benchmarks shouldn't be taken into consideration for their strengths? Lowen is always one of the units I've always been contentious about. Sure on average he meets all the important offensive benchmarks, but he rides that line so hard, and it feels weird to call him one of the best units in the game when there's like a 30-40 percent chance of him being Forde.
I do think a unit's capability to mess benchmarks matters, absolutely. But I also think saying a unit is "too balanced" in and of itself is not a drawback: if a unit is really balanced but still likely to double on average (like Franz who has a good base+growth) then I think it's silly to say his speed his too average. My point is more that you have to look at those benchmarks in the first place, instead of just looking at bases+growths, see that none of them stand out, and then mistakenly conclude that they're too balanced.
I still don't get the point of weighing availability when talking about units who don't need to be raised. Rating a unit's (very theoretical) contribution through the game seems very senseless to me because it's making the assumption that whoever is viewing the tier list already knows enough to know what's going on and judge for themselves and therefore would likely not "need" it.
So on that topic, Athos. I would bet newer players checking out an fe7 tier list must either see Athos in C and not try to make use of him, or just check the stats and immediately think whoever made the tier list is an idiot who can't be relied on. Really we should want them using their strong units when they have them, and that's the same for, say, Harken. It's a real shame that the community made it a standard to make tier lists targeted toward already experienced players instead of taking a more casual approach.
So, let me try to explain the availability argument.
In FE12, Arran is considered A-tier, but he is considered lower than Palla who is S-tier. This is because Arran's stats while very strong in the early game doesn't hold up in the lategame unlike Palla who kicks ass for the entire game.
This means the player should let Arran fight in the early chapters, and then drop him at around chapter 7-8, around 1/3 of the main game. You can pretend that he doesn't exist for the rest of the game.
Now flip that around and we have someone who performs as well in the last 1/3 in the game as Arran does in the first 1/3 (let's call her Narra), but never joins your party until then, and assuming that the first 1/3 is equally as difficult as the last 1/3, then both Arran and Narra are equally valuable.
If Arran and Narra are equally valuable and Arran is less valuable than Palla, then we can say that Narra is less valuable than Palla because of her lower availability.
I agree with Hector's sentiment, solely because he just feels good to use. He hits hard and he tanks decently, which is something other 2 lords can't do. He may not be "efficient" to use, but i gotta be honest i never liked rating units in this in context, because most people do not play efficiently so the assessment won't apply to their playthroughs.
I was sort of seeing where those scores are coming from until i saw Pent below Lyn, Eliwood and Rath. There isn't one chapter where Pent is a bad choice for deployment so if most of these ratings do not factor availability he should have almost perfect rating.
See, that's why I love Hector. Yeah, he might have low MOV, but combat-wise he's so strong, he just has really good unit feel.
I also like Lyn a lot as a unit but for her I would never argue that she's a good unit cuz sadly she just is not
@@juicyjuustar121It's funny that Lyn gets screwed by every mechanic of FE7 - effective damage being only x2 causing her to miss one round K.O's, overkill speed against slow enemies, low con in a game where the best weapons are heavy, no promotion for most of the game (and getting bows once that happens) and terrible durability + no 1-2 range in enemy phase focused game. I think only FE11 Marth has it worse.
Merlinus definitely can be strategized with once he promotes.
He has very high avoid, and no counter, which makes him a pretty reliable way to draw enemy units toward some spot you want them to go to. For example, in my latest playthrough, I was able to use him to keep the general in the pale flower of darkness (Kenneth version), as well as the wyvern reinforcements occupied. And then in Cog of destiny I was able to use him to bait Vaida into recruitment range.
And he’s made all the better by the fact that, even if you get so unlucky as to him getting hit enough to lose all hp, he’ll still be available for future chapters, able to fulfill the same functions.
If you do enough Gaidens on Hector mode, he can also be promoted by the time you’re doing unfulfilled heart. Which means you can use him to bait away Vaida from the shops (which includes the only non-secret shop in the game that sells killer weapons mind you). He’s probably the best unit for that.
I also gotta express disagreement with regarding Nino as being that bad.
I understand that she is unnecessary, and that Mekkah generally doesn’t like training units because it takes time. But I definitely think saying she’s the second worst unit in the game, or that she’s bad in general, is a far stretch.
For one, I definitely think saying that she needs training understates how easy it is to train Nino: she gets a gaiden where she’s force deployed anyway, gets exp fast (exp that, btw, other units don’t need as much and benefit from a lot less), doesn’t have trouble finishing enemies off due to their low resistance, snowballs due to her good growths, and, to put it in terms of the previous video on fe8, it’s late in the game, which means you have a lot of ways of dealing with “Nino suck.” More than you do for Rebecca or Bartre early in the game.
Battle before dawn also has a stealable earth seal, which probably won’t have a lot of competition(due to it being so late in the game).
If you need a magic user, or even just a staff bot due to having lost units or them getting screwed or whatever, Nino’s a great replacement.
You don’t *need* her otherwise, but I don’t see how that makes her *bad*.
Hawkeye is an excellent unit. In my first playthrough he suffered greatly from showing up on the map where Pent was destroying everything and my kid brain compared them and said give me that mage, I'll make room for him... only to find out he joins way later, oh well.
"give me that mage, I'll make room for him" LOL Love It!!
"Is crutch bad?"
For a lot of gamers, yeah. If you gave the player a bazooka in Dark Souls it would be pretty efficient. It'd also suck out all the fun pretty fast
Lol this is ENTIRELY untrue. There are hundreds of videos with titles like "How to be OP early in Dark Souls 1/2/3/Bloodborne/Elden Ring." Hell, Dark Souls 1 has an actual crutch weapon in the Drake Sword, and first time players love using that weapon. The difference between the Drake Sword and Marcus, of course, being that Marcus is actually good the entire game.
@@DolphinDingus "For a lot of gamers" does not mean "all gamers and if you disagree with me you're stupid and wrong."
Damn throwback to 2003-04 Epic Center on Nintendo forums. Mad nostalgic.
I remember thinking Canas was the goat. I had him max def once.
Kent was always better than Sain to me. I loved pairing him with Fiora and just wrecking everything. Shoutout to my 20/1 11 skill Sain that couldnt hit anything. Meanwhile Kent usually capped every stat but luck/res.
I think I played cautiously and didnt care how fast I completed maps back then. I farmed support guide to 100% eventually. So I used a lot of different units. Id replay FE7 but with everything else Ive played since then its tough to imagine going back to FE.
I quit FE after I didnt enjoy the skill system in FE9/10. I like my simple Srpgs.
Personally I feel like endgame potential does matter far more in Sacred Stones than in Blazing Sword. Because Sacred Stones is fairly easy overall but has the post/endgame Lagdou Ruins complete with bonus unlockable characters.
There's a difference between FE7 and FE6/8 in that regard. FE7's postgame content is Hector Mode rather than actual postgame content. FE6 has Trial Maps while FE8 has Creature Campaign.
I fully get rating characters in FE7 based on overall game performance, especially in Hector Hard Mode. I feel like however there's a different line of thinking in regards to FE8 that perhaps should be re-evaluated.
That being said, I would probably argue including Lagdou Ruins as part of character evaluation rather than ignoring the entire rest of the game. So that wouldn't change Seth's rating much.
Archers not at the bottom, based list
I really don't understand the hype around Lyn. Her Defenses are so bad that I can never put her out there and hope she dodges everything. I've had Speed issues with my Heath but because he is a Flier and has Lances and has cool hair, he is automatically a great unit for me off the bat, I love Heath, really sad to see him quite low. I feel there is also a bias with the female units as well as units that join earlier in the game. Like, where are you going to find a unit who flies and has good bulk. Florina and Fiora may have good Res, but their Defenses don't justify me not using Heath.
Farina is a better defensive unit than Heath in some ways. Solid defense, resistant against magic rather than weak against it, and due to having access to two weapons types she effectively has access to the entire weapon triangle via reaver weapons. One of the biggest weaknesses of Peg Riders is that they can lose matchups against other lance users due to their low bulk in ways a Myrmidon or a Fighter won't lose to enemies using their weapon types. While a wyvern rider like Heath isn't vulnerable to lances the same way they can't gain an advantage against lances whereas Peg Riders can when they promote.
There's like community mandela effect in every community. The most common case is in certain anime communities, certain characters gets massively overrated or underrated across communities, most notably if some prominent members in the community keep reinforcing certain ideas. The western FE community favors LTC or "efficiency" because the most prominent people play like this. But imagine in a parallel universe where we favor "least resets", "highest exp rank" or "least braincells needed", things would be a lot different.
Least resets or braincells is probably still using Marcus
I think a lot of players nowadays have moved away from the "efficiency" standard for evaluating units and toward other metrics again, like the ones you listed. Iron mans are still very much a fad and I think that has had an effect on how people value units, especially outside of Mekkah's circlejerk
@@gabrielleite32 Yes, but the point is the least resets metric would make units like swordmasters (in sensible games like gba) a lot better than using the efficiency metric. They help you in riskier engagements vs promoted enemies and you don't have to do risk reward analysis on accuracy as much.
@@mintx1720It depends on the GBA game. In FE7 lances are the most prominent enemy weapon.
Reminds me of the old-West community, GameFAQS, FEplanet, FESS, etc. days when most rated the way the Japanese do.
I might be looking to play an FE hack. I've played a few in the past but never beat them. Does anyone have any recommendations?
Storge is really good, and it's fairly short. You get to pick your units at the start of the run, and you have a bunch of gold up front to buy whatever items you want for your units. Then you play through the (relatively short) game while managing your resources. It's unique, but familiar, and really well made for what it is.
I'm currently posting a playthrough of Justice and Pride, you can check that out to see if it interests you.
I would always think that Serra higher magic growth is one of the most overrated things ever. If you look even the best scenario possible for her 20/20, she still has less magic that Priscilla on average 22.5 for Priscilla and 22 for Serra and it gets worse with less levels. For example level 9 Serra on average has the same magic that base Priscilla that is level 3 and her advantage in speed doesn't matter when she is weighted down by even lightning thing that doesn't happen with Priscilla with fire and she only lose 1 speed with thunder.
Guy is from Flavortown, NOT France.
59:07 The word you're looking for Mekkah is "clutch".
9:57 I think the 1-2 lack before promotion isn’t as big of a deal for raven as we make it out to be. Try putting a javelin on a lyn mode cav or lowen and see how reliable their combat with it is. By the time anyone not named marcus or oswin gets good enough combat to be able to reliably use physical 1-2 I feel like raven would just be promoted and killing the game.
I think for Raven specifically if he could throw Javelins it would make it easier to find kills for him in an efficient setting, since his stats are so good. But yeah, most unpromoted units suck with Javs.
FE tier lists need an "always use when available" tier right under S tier.
I already spent my comment, but 8 move, all the weapons with actual ranks, base stats. Nah, paladin? That's a D starting class bro
I expected prepromo hate, but damn.
I like these videos but i would say that the tier list you compare it to should be considered from the perspective of the average casual. Ie most people aren't gonna move full move every turn. Cavaliers like lowen and isadora shouldn't be above characters like lyn and bartre because of rescue dropping and ltc usefulness due to higher move.
Lowen is definitely better than Bartre for combat and utility. Even in casual play lowen is better than bartre. Lyn is a fan favorite and lord so it's odd seeing her in D tier but she has alot of issues. Especially if you don't play lyns mode. I will agree that lowen being 2nd place in A tier is very overvalued but he'd still be above scrubs like Bartre and Lyn.
@@Starwars-Fanboy yes i do agree that lowen is better because of bulk and weapon triangle control and such. But if he were a soldier with the same stats he would be slightly above bartre at best. His cav utility single handedly makes him so high teir and i disagree with that sentiment
why is merlinus S+ tier? Because he doesnt take a deployment slot?
Imagine playing FE7 with no convoy
@@polarwheat you still have a convoy just not in battle which doesnt really matter
@@xBox360BENUTZER convoy in battle matters a lot
Literally free utillity and convoy. There is literally no reason not to deploy him.
@@fangiscool1merlinus is stuck in one spot for minimum 20 chapters, which isn't miles better in a game that's mostly seize objectives anyway
I've always thought the way Mekkah and other FEtubers rated units was giga cringe, so it's been fun to see what the JP community thinks.
It seems NA cares more about feeding Seth/Marcus then the rest of the army
@@wingofshuWhat's wrong with that? I say that if you're too weak to get XP on your own, you don't deserve any.
@@wingofshu mekkah is european
These JP lists remind me of that Simpsons episode where instead of praising Homer for saving the day, they fixate on the inanimate carbon rod.
Japanese players in general don't value Mov as much as we do, it seems.
What's with all of the 'general's? Are you trying to convince us of Amelia/Wendy superiority? If so: based, but I still ain't doing that kind of grinding again.
@@maltheopia Generally, generals don't have much Mov, in general.
Efficiency play is very boring for me, I like to train characters.
The goal of Fire Emblem is not actually to beat the game, it is to watch the numbers of your characters go up. Therefore, the best characters are the ones whose numbers go up the most.
Flawless reasoning.
For me, its a mix.
I like to use Some strong units, with one or 2 units i train from zero to hero.
I generally not at all efficent though, have never used Warp outside of Echoes.
@@Celia_Dawn Therefore Serra is the best character. She joins at a low level for the many possible level ups, and the player will spend the most turns of any character watching her support conversation number go up, for she has 5 relationships at +1 point per turn.
You'll be pleased to know almost all those _A+_ units require training.
Nobody is saying to play different but when you are doing a tier list on what is the "optimal" thing to do for fun units should go lower even if it is "more fun" to use them