Why are We Not Road Racing in TT Helmets? - Wind Tunnel
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- What should've been a fairly innocuous test got me riled so much that I filmed this 4 different times and then my father made me realised I am a hypocrite.
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Something that might be worth considering is that - and I am assuming this - is that the tests for the helmets were done in the TT position. The differences between the TT helmet and the evade might end up being different when in a more standard road bike position, and by extent the differences between TT helmets and aero road helmets altogether. An example that comes to mind is that the POC tempor is very good at fairing the shoulders of a rider (as is the funky new Giro helmet) in a TT position. That is not the case however when the rider is sat somewhat more upright on a road bike. Though it's worth noting that when you need most of the difference you will (or should) take a more aggressive position that's closer to the TT position and the fairing effect might come back.
Mucho texto, I know. Here's a cookie 🍪
I agree entirely with your explanation. If you don't mind I'd like to add my 2 cents.... I don't think a completely closed helmet will help in a peloton, where you need to communicate with other people and hearing gets limited with those aero helmets. Besides that, they do t let the sweat evaporate well (not ideal for a long race) and even vision of your surroundings gets limited (also not ideal with so many riders around you on a bunch race.
I also agree but add that I think the tt position is a more constant position. Rides tend to say sat in the saddle where as road riders are in and out of the saddle and generally looking around more. I’m guessing all the aero benefits disappear and likely become negative when the riders looks left, right or worse still over their shoulder.
@@Zzyyxx22 That is a very fair comment. With any test it is important to define the conditions, which in this case includes the position of the rider and the head. Indeed, all of the advantages would disappear or at the very least be severly impacted by a position change of the head. I would assume that, if done in more traditional road position (the definition of which can differ from person to person), the head is only allowed to move as little as possible throughout the test run. Though this indeed does differ from a real-life scenario, I assume a rider is not constantly looking over their shoulder unless while being chased down by one of the aliens in the bunch.
All very fair comments. I’ll weigh in and say I think some helmets absolutely won’t work, poc tempor, sweet protection etc. but some, like the hjc and kasks will. Let’s not forget that the Evade or Ballista are not made for looking backwards either though the losses would likely be less than a TT helmet.
@@AlexDowsettOfficialthere is a though. The evade is slower when you look backwards (not designed for looking back).
The headsock helmet actively restricts your field of view making it harder to look around.
As someone who regularly bunch races on the track in a TT helmet , I can probably add a couple additional reasons as to why it's not just aesthetics that means they haven't crossed over to the road.
Firstly, sensory deprivation. You are very enclosed in a TT helmet, your ability to hear is more limited and, for most TT helmets, you lose peripheral vision. These are limitations that are acceptable in a short track race, but less so in a road race.
Secondly, you mentioned heat, but the other comfort factor is weight. Currently a road helmet is around 250g, whilst a TT helmet normally tips the scales at over 400g. Again, fine for a 20-40 minute race on the track, less so for 3-4 hours (or longer if you're a pro) on the road.
Counter argument, wearing a TT helmet in a road race would only be a 3% advantage for a short while because if it caught on and all teams now had a 3% advantage, then nobody has an advantage. And if nobody has an advantage, then everyone might as well stay with the more comfy aero road helmet for road races
Exactly. And at that point the only difference would be the overall speed of the race goes from 44km/h to 44.8km/h. Which doesn't matter.
Spot on
When I was a cat 4 racer, Colin Strickland (of gravel fame) was as well. He forgot his helmet for a race, I had my TT helmet in the car and let him use it. USAC officials gave him the thumbs up when he arrived at the start *1 minute late!* but he caught us, sat in for half the race, attacked, and then won. Surely it was my helmet.
This aero series has been awesome and extremely interesting, thank you! I found your bit of self-reflection while commenting on the general acceptance trends by the greater peloton to be refreshingly honest. Finally, kudos to your father for cutting to the heart of your hypocrisy and demonstrating that wisdom does often come with age.
Also, I think people would be very interested to know what the aero gain is for a TT helmet while in a standard road position while drafting the riders in front. I know this was certainly an argument at points for using a non-aero lightweight bike because while drafting on the flats it wasn't too big a penalty, but when attacking off the front on steep climbs at a key point in the race where drag is low then the weight saving would get better overall than attacking with the heavier aero bike
They are position specific. I could bet my house that most tt helmets in an "upright" road position would be slower than good aero road helmets.
TT helmets may have an advantage over road helmets, but they don't help you win if everyone is using them. Also, you could argue their shape makes them less safe in a crash as they would be more likely to twist your head.
I’m sure you’ve tested it but is that the best head position for the evade helmet?
As a lifelong soccer player and cyclist, I’m in agreement with using well engineered aero helmets all the time and baffled by the willingness to sacrifice Big Gains by choosing weird uncle mid calf socks over thigh length aero leg socks, aesthetically no different than leg warmers/tights
Hey @AlexDowsettOfficial, thanks for this inspiring and insightful series of videos! I have a quick question. What are your assumptions regarding the difference between a regular (lightweight, ventilated) helmet, and road aero helmet. But at low speed, e.g. 20-35km/h. So let's consider a mountain bike race and e.g. Specialized Prevails vs Evade.
Also, do you have any data for Ekoi helmets?
"They're all about marginal gains until it looks silly". And Giro enters the chat "hang on a sec"
Hey Alex, honest question here - I've been watching the Nero Show, and I feel like all they do is speculate about 80% of what they are talking about, unless it's, of course, anecdotal - but for you, as for someone who has been in the World Tour, what do you think of these people commenting on 'pro' stuff, without having been a 'pro'? I am a professional musician, and if amateurs talk about pro things in the music industry, I'd be raising my eyebrow... Thanks!
Not Alex, but, old, and witnessed the workings of elite international cycling.
Know that two things happen simultaneously. 1. Manufacturers tell riders what to wear, ride, and that’s mostly that. 2. There are so many plain lies that are bought and sold because it generates sales. “Ketones” was an epic lie quite a few years ago.
Alex is not wrong about efficiency gains.
But, at your national/regional event, it’s mostly genetics, sometimes cheating, and productive training time in the saddle.
You know the red flags in the music industry. It’s no better in cycling.
If one team does it... all the other teams have to do it. This is game theory... so all teams are better off not doing it (better rider comfort etc...). yes there may be a time when one team breaks ranks and goes for it on a certain parcours, this just adds complexity to decision making teams would rather not go to at this point.
How many hours per week are you training these days on average Alex?
8-12 I’d say. Much less low intensity volume and much more high intensity ratio though
Would have been great to see a TT helmet tested in a standard road position as opposed to TT instead just to validate it is as quick or quicker than road helmet.
Since you're sponsored by Specialized, I would have liked to see a test comparing 'aero road' helmets and the more traditional road helmets like the Evade 3 ($300) vs. Prevail 3 ($300) vs. Propero 4 ($200) vs. Propero 3 ($65) vs. Echelon 2 ($45). The most expensive ones here are the 'aero road' style, the cheaper ones are more traditional.
I have both an Evade and the older Echelon 2 style; and I'm curious about when I'm on a real-world solo road ride for an hour or two at say 20mph/ 32kph how many seconds difference am I loosing when I wear the Echelon 2 vs when I wear the Evade...
I'm sure Specialized have already done this in their 'Win Tunnel' but their videos on the subject are to be taken with a huge grain of salt if you know what I mean....
Valid point! One for next time with a downhill and commuter helmet thrown in for good measure also
I'm no pro, but sorry Alex but I don't buy this (completely!) OK, I get the point about a historical reluctance in the pro peleton to go against traditions but the riders in the pelton don't ride in TT position. Riders look behind, take drinks, comfort breaks, crash and change bikes, put clothing on and off etc etc. Wouldn't all these activities make any marginal gain from a TT helmet negligible (even if could be tested for bunch riding)? Surely the aero road helmet is the best compromise? Still loved the series though😉
Brilliant!! how many likes would we need for you to test all the new aero road helmets against the Specilized TT aero helmet ? would love to see the new POC aero road, the Oakley big visor, specilized, Rudy, was always interesting and Tadej's helmet from strada? others ? really enjoyin this as it hilarious watching you find my past mistakes from TT days , can't wait for the Chris Baordman steel cougar, vs your spec' shiv ;)
Happily, if they’re provided…. Twas an expensive project this that I don’t believe will be profitable in the end 😅
The relatability is a part of cyclig for me. If everyone is riding aero helmets they become unrecognisable and look stupid.
I like how I can optimize my socks, tighter shirt, deeper wheel, .... but I'm not riding with a face cover on a sunday morning ride with my friends.
What about the psychological effect? It's difficult to put a number on how self-conscious a rider would feel and what impact that would have on performance. If you're more comfortable without the distraction of some weird piece of kit, it's likely, I'd suggest, that you will have a better race.
Yeah, I'm waiting for one of the sprint teams to say "f it, let's go chips all in" and rock up with full TT lids. TBH, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Cyclists are weird sometimes.
Will it be as aero if you are less tucked on the bike compared to the TT bike? The new Giro helmet seems to be made for a fixed position. Will be extremely aero (I hope and trust) in this position, but how will it be in others? I see a new series starting. Including the Big S helmet without the buff/sock and on road bikes as well. Looking forward to it. I hope us watching this series will bring enough to get the second on 😊🤙😇
Uno-x is running a old sweet protection tt helmet - Tucker. So there are some teams that use tt helmets in road races.
Cant work out if this os the ultimate troll .... Cyclists not wanting to wear something that looks "silly" after last week's VismaLAB shenanigans!
Love these videos!!! But are you going to comment on the lease a bike new TT helmet?? I need to know the stats on it too 🤞🏻😄 also what about the snud on Specialized being banned??
Have you tested triathlon aero calf sleeves vs shaved legs? Maybe faster than aero socks. Not uci legal of course, but propably good for wetsuit legal no draft triathlon ?
The public already thinks of cyclists as dorks in tights. How embarrassing do we want the sport to be for kids to get into? The UCI needs to stop this helmet madness.
Thanks for this series of videos, really interesting stuff. The natural end point is surely everyone wearing an aero helmet and riding road races on a tt bike (triathlon style). At that point do the marginal gains matter that much, isn’t everything negated by everyone having access to the same kit? I’m not against progress but there is something to be said for wanting the winner to be the best athlete rather than the smartest aerodynamicist. The reaction to the latest batch of aero helmets does also demonstrate (I think) that the aesthetic of the sport matters. Not sure what the solution is here, the science is very cool but how important is that to general consumers and fans? Discuss….
If road helmets are slower, then I suppose road helmet will start to look more like those big TT helmets and then the UCI will have to do something
Aren't TT helmets made to smoothen the airflow over/around rider when in TT position, so in a more 'relax' position on a road bike does it really have that much of an effect ?
i agree with alot of the critics from the community the rules are taking the Esprit from the race and making riders a job title not some chariot wielding badasses.
What if the road helmet identifies as fast? Or what if the swimming hat identifies as a helmet?
One thing I was considering about these results is that this test was done on a TT bike in optimised position. It would be interesting to see the same test done on a road bike in a normal road position where the head isn't so low.
Is the TT helmet as aero dynamic as an aero road helmet in the road bike position? Track positions far more aggressive and closer to TT?
Would be interesting to see the difference on a road bike. Not sure if the less aero body position would change the interaction of the helmets and narrow the gap?
If i show up on our regular weekly bunch ride in aero socks or even suit, they will make me to ride in the front head wind a lot :D
They will hopefully get banned for looks in road stages.
Redo the test on a road bike and see what the difference is. I think body position will have a big effect.
nah, lets stick to "normal" helments, those TT helments surely help alienate many people from the sport
TT helmets are banned for road bike time trials otherwise I would wear one.
Why did that TT helmet remind me of spaceballs 🤣
Is the TT helmet going to be as Aero in a road riding position? Assuming you can stay with your hands in that "almost puppy paws" position and nice and flat, it's probably very close to TT minus the narrow aerobars. But if you're riding in the drops or hoods and your head is up, and thus hitting the air differently, does it help as much? Possibly hurt?
Loving the honesty 🤣, I think it's called style over substance 🤔.
Me I'll be at Castle Combe on Sunday with a new nopinz Tri Suit and a Kask aero helmet in bright orange, now that's substance over style 😂🤣😂
but are aero socks actually any faster? in the real world, where your legs move and the wind moves, and you're in and out of bunches, leaning over in corners and everything else? Wind tunnels have their place, but anything less than a LARGE gain is pretty much meaningless (more-so for road riders instead of non-drafting TT specialists)
They have been tested to be faster countless times, never by a lot, (however you'd quantify a lot). The theory as always is that lots of small gains equals a large gain. To put it another way, I lost a Bronze medal in the European TT champs in 2019 by 0.48s, and this put me in 5th so there was Stefan Kung in 4th, a mere 0.3 off the podium. The small gain of an aero sock, a tyre choice, an aero helmet's position would've made that difference and more. The differences in speed between things like socks are very small, but the differences in time for finishing positions are often smaller.
Thanks for the series Alex ! But i disagree with your reflexion, obviously Aero is important and crucial but ventilation is as important, if you're top hot you're wasting energy to cool your system and at the end you lose watt on the bike.
The goal is top find the right balance and for this it depend of race duration, weather etc ..
But sure you already know all of this 😉
I agree, there’s an argument that a faster helmet involves less work and so less heat generated. There’s aero helmets. Like the giro aerohead, that have ventilation whilst still being fast.
3:15 Why 👏are👏we👏not👏using👏road races👏in 👏helmets??!
I remember back in the late 70s / early 80s top testers wearing one piece skinsuits incorporating a swim cap like head covering. I also remember losing a 25 mile TT on the Hemel Hempstead course back in the 90s by 2 or 3 seconds, wearing a borowed aero helmet that didn't fit me and dug into my temples the whole way around. I reckon without it I'd have won. surely...
The easy answer is that Aero TT helmet is not faster in normal Riding position. Your test is base on TT position which your TT helmet got optimized for. Road race Helmet was optimized for much higher head position and different wind angle.
I disagree, a lot of race winning positions, the upper body and head angles are very very similar. Bettiol winning Milan Torino today is an example
Interesting - i had assumed TT helmets couldnt be worn in road races (I thought the UCI would have had something to say about this?!) - is this not the case?
That is, TT helmets which cover the ears, and have longer tails (I thought if the helmets cover the ears the UCI would suggest they could impede hearing other riders and therefore be potentially unsafe when riding in a group)
Same happened when ppl saw the new giro TT helmet. Everyone moaned about it. "it looks weird", "it's illegal", "cycling is about legs".
This and then we saw Bettiol on the start line of Milan Turino fully aero-d up..no one else.....and he won beating a 6-7 chasing pack for 20km or so. Incredible.
Very cool to see the results, thanks for sharing, about why it's not used in races.... I don't know, but i think the results would be different though, on a UCI legal setup, in a peleton. and then like mentioned before. the weight of the helmet affecting your neck muscles in a 200km race i think does not justify the 5 minutes you sit out of drag behind an other rider, or in those small moments where the helmet can make a difference.
Excellent series and great insight to it all thank you mate, Be interesting to know then the fastest current road race helmet, Are the these new very interesting 🤔🤷♂️ TT helmets actually any good/safe to be put on the road in the peloton? Crashes happen so what would be he result
I already have my guess, but I wonder how much time riders are losing changing helmets for TT’s with a climb at the end. Especially if they’re changing bikes as well as helmets
Really great to see the swim cap get some recognition! 💪 🏊 🚲 😂 (even if it wasn’t very interesting 😜)
Thanks for posting this…so my previous gen S-works TT helmet is probably 2% faster than my Evade III. (You don’t happen to have that data point do you?) 🙂
Took me awhile to get used to my evade, but I actually felt a gain over the Catlike. Catlikes were great in in south texas summers, though!
love your point. haha. great
You could argue that EF with that new POC is essentially running a TT helmet in road races
I think it is the matter of the fact that it is really hard to market. TT helmets are such a niche market that trying to find sponsors to persuade wearing one of these TT helmets all the time isn’t worth the extreme marginal gains that it presents over a sponsor that can provide monetary value that can be used for other areas.
Luckily we are seeing some companies produce a more road TT-eqse helmet to use like Trek, POC etc. to try and bridge that gap to road.
Did you enjoy that rant ? I did too !!
I legitimately showed up to a spring road race 2 years ago with my poc aero helmet and I just couldn't bear it and grabbed my road helmet. I made the same excuse you made at the end of this video.
Ease the transition with something like the Met Codatronca. The new new Ballista tests pretty well also for something that does not cover the ears.
I was kind of confused, I think you need to make sure you differentiate between TT and aero road helmets, I think calling them aero helmets and aero road race helmets is too similar and loses the meaning of what you are trying to say.
I think he forgot what he was saying at one point too. That didn't help.
I was conscious of this after. Wanted to give the aero road race helmets their due though as there are non aero road race helmets that focus solely on ventilation.
@@AlexDowsettOfficial oh absolutely, it made sense to include them and to differentiate between well ventilated and aero road race helmets, I just got a bit lost as to whether at sone points "aero helmet" meant aero road race or TT. Sorry if it sounded too nitpicky though, if I didn't really enjoy the content I wouldn't leave (what I hoped sounded like) a constructive comment to help make the video better
4:35 now that's a narrow handlebar lol whaaat. Ahah love the conclusion :D
that Nando F1 analogy; is he saying that while smiling ear to ear?! 😂
funny you say that as visma is using a horrendous new tt helmet
They're hot?
Chapeaux for your honesty
Said the air socks sales man to the bishop 😉
Any idea what the fastest are road helmet is?
I do wear a TT helmet in road races.
... - in Spanish. :)