The only reason why people think the longsword is OP is because it is comparable in power to the ranged weapons. This is in large part due to " less physical damage " and " more physical damage taken " difference between ranged and not ranged. Gunners/bows have to be constantly terrified of huge swathes of their health being removed by attacks on the low end of power, compared to physical weapons at least. ( I'm pretty sure it got removed in rise, which is another problem within itself) Edit - man I've no clue what the goose I was on about with this comment this shit is the silliest thing that successfully made me sound so much like the nerd emoji
It was a good essay, as a charge blade main I do not agree with most of this, the changes to the long swords makes the challenge trivial and I like flinching because it forces more teamwork then most games, MH rise is having a power creep issue and that is because these weapons are getting too strong and the monsters getting stronger doesn’t fix the problem, monster Hunter gets its identity from being somewhat grounded, the long sword is starting to lose that grounding, yes that’s coming from the guy who mains the weapon that charges from kinetic energy and then discharges it, but as you can see I can have a logical reason for how the weapon could work even if it’s not 100% correct, I wouldn’t be upset if the next monster Hunter game takes some steps backwards and forks off in a different direction, new weapons, the return of water battles (if made to actually be fun) or the return of seasons and the day night cycle meaning something, but the long swords was a meme problem before and is an actual problem now
I don't see any problem playing with Long Sword players except that they rarely focus on the tail first and they go straight to the head. Flinch free decoration make life easier with LS players. Also some LS players are aggressive meaning they will spirit combo even if the monster is falling asleep.
I mainly use the Sword and Shield. I already faced many harsh criticisms from the elitists of the community. I prefer versatility and options over pure mindless bonk. That is why I am glad Sunbreak gave me options to use not just the shield but also utilize the elements and status of the SnS. I feel so powerful using that weapon than anything else. Though I do see the enjoyment of them giving other weapons a chance to shine
The only real criticism for LS is the fast and wide swings which trip up fellow hunters. Pretty much all other complaints seems like jealousy bias. Each weapon has its own playstyle and so long as devs make each weapon enjoyable I have no problem if a weapon becomes a bit better than others. In the next game the systems introduced could just as easily make another weapon "OP". Also complaining about kill times feels silly because that really only affects like the top 0.1% of players who do speed runs. In short anyone who doesn't like a certain weapon stop complaining like a jealous baby and find enjoyment in another weapon.
Me being a lance main getting confused how weapons like LS can parry with not a single scratch while I have to haul a giant ass shield and still getting my health chipped away while blocking.
Because you can literally hold your shield with no strict timing requirement. Theres no such thing as blocking too early and getting punished. Longsword has to i-frame the attacks, and if they do it too early they are left wide open. They literally have to wait until the last few frames before they get hit. It's called risk/reward. Lance is low risk, therefore low reward. Longsword is high risk, high reward. If you could block every attack without losing any health or stamina, it would make the harder dodging/countering playstyles irrelevant. You could just hold block forever. Realistically, getting your health chipped doesn't matter. You can just eat super recovery dango level 4, and your health will be constantly regenerating the entire hunt.
Overall I think it’s pretty stupid that not only do you have to heavily invest in skills, your shield is also just as strong as 2 other weapons. Why not change that instead of making the hunting horn a mashy slapstick?
The Rise Longsword favoritism wasn't just receiving it as a gift for completing the village quests. Rise is the only Monster Hunter game in history to make your DEFAULT starting weapon a Longsword instead of the Sword and Shield. They don't just nudge you towards playing it; they quite literally put a Longsword in your hands and tell you to use it. I find it funny how many people are making crazy assumptions about my character and trying to dunk on me for internet cool kid points when basically all I've said is "Yeah, Rise has longsword favoritism, I think the SnS was better."
I think it is because it is a heavily Japanese inspired region so they decided to give the player the most Japanese weapon, but yeah giving it as a starting weapon does make the player think it is the most beginner friendly weapon.
@@sirchez_ The argument doesn't work the other way. Sword and Shield has been the default weapon since the first game (Which, some people forget, Longsword WASN'T in). Not counting spinoffs, that's 15 games of default SnS since 2004. Rise broke a tradition that was nearly two decades old just to shove people in the "favorite child" Longsword's direction. Theming hardly matters; Dual Blades are just as anime and "ninja" themed as Longsword. No ninja in history has used an Odachi, whereas very many have used small twin blades.
Being a Lance main i've always hated how the LS basically makes Lance looks pointless to play from a meta perspective... The parry(parries now) alone puts LS on Lance's level as a defensive weapon, except you also get to do big flashy movesets with buffed dps.
And on top of that, you take chip damage as Lance. For blocking. The weapon is made to do that. While all other weapons got a free "get out of jail card" .
Yeah but with lance all you need to do is to press a button while LS you still need to time the monster moveset, it is definitely easier said than done
@@ghostmw8 you clearly don't play Lance at all judging by what you said... But lance guarding is really way inferior to LS parry. Parrying gives you straight up invincibility frames, guarding means you'll take chip damage+stamina damage+knockback(if you have no "Guard" skill in). Not to mention there are alot of unblockable attack in this game that LS parry can handle since it's essentially a long dodge. And if you think LS parry is "easier said than done", you're probably a new player. The counter window is so long that it's hard to fuck up, and you can also put "evade window" to prolong that even further.
@@RisqueBisquetz I didn’t play lance or long sword in this game yet but I’m going off the assumption that lance and gun lance have the same (if not the lance, superior) amount of defense and have similar modus operandis. Nah beeg shield in the game is is busted you are short selling it by a lot. I run Bjuice armor which does admittedly come with guard (but if LS can get evade window we can take this as well) The “chip damage” is pretty much only relevant if you like forgot to eat a meal. This isn’t even considering if you decided to bird up. Stamina drain is also laughable in this game, so much so water blight is an “oh no! Anyways”. I hold up shield, monster can hit it over and over and over I lose barely anything. The only actual threat to sheild stamina isn’t even a monster it’s if some dual blade user decided to demon dance where you were standing.
Tbf the lance may not be flashy like LS but it still holds some pretty insane speed run times, and personally it's my favourite weapon besides per rise HH
I'm a lance main, many have been forcing me to go longsword when I started playing with new rise players. I simply can't do it. Muscle memory and Souls-Like braincells find comfort in the timed parry and the large shield. Plus, I charge. There's the palamute, but I love lance hunter go brrrrrr
Okay but lance in Rise is incredible fun. Maybe not BROKEN fun, but I love zipping around, flying 500 feet into the air, and shield charging. I wish it were more fun in World though.
@@geo_chronick209 If you don't mind not flying around the sky. The satisfying thunk when you counter makes it enjoyable. Plus, hunter go brrrr. Chasing a Diablos while holding a lance has never been unfunny to me XD.
I think what people dislike about LS is a combination of several things : The popularity which also, back in the day, resulted in us being staggered A LOT by Longsword players. Flinch Free exists mostly so you can play with LS players without getting annoyed at some point. As people already mentioned, nowadays it's too defensive and offensive at the same time while being really easy to use once you got Quick Sheath 3, at that point you don't really need any predictions but simply parry/dodge as you usually would. Sure, performing 100% clean WR speedruns still needs some skill but that doesnt make the weapon more demanding in 99% of the other hunts being played. Seeing it keep getting buffed over the games despite already performing rather well and being one, if not THE most popular weapon may also probably cause a certain spite within non-LS mains. LS basically feels like that one popular kid at school that you really wish you could punch in the face. You get a constant reminder that it's most peoples favorite all the time while it taunts you with the attention and love it gets in comparasion to other weapons. I feel like this whole "Uhm LS sucks cause weeb" reasoning is mostly cause people struggle to perceive why they actually feel the way they do. I suppose most people just feel like LS is too easy for the average damage output, too popular and receives too much attention despite already being strong and popular.
Whoops, I just realized that I followed my train of thought a bit too much and was only half way through the vide haha Anyway, in the end we seem to bring up similar points and agree with each other, when I kept watching after making that comment you started to talk about flinching and favoritism which's basically what I said as well. Pretty good vid, I like the fact that you took into account easily overseen aspects such as favoritism as well. Leaving a sub :>
It's also significantly over-designed relative to many other weapons. Longsword doesn't just have counters, it has so many counters that basically 1/3 of them aren't even used/noticed by players. Does it really need Foresight slash if Iai Spirit Slash exists? Does it really need hyper armor on its draw attacks? Does it REALLY need a counter silkbind alongside everything else? Hell, does it even need counters at all when the original purpose of the Fade Slash is to reposition out of the way of an attack (the answer is absolutely yes, but that's due to power creep affecting monsters, not just weapons. We now have to deal with vastly more speed and AoE attacks than we used to as the pace of the game steadily grows faster and faster). It felt fine for the most part in World (a little easy to use, but fine, especially in the context of every single weapon being reworked all at once), but when they moved on to Rise, they just kept giving it more stuff without taking any of the old things away. What unique purpose does Foresight serve now that Iai Spirit Slash also can level up your gauge and do even more damage? Well, whatever the intended purpose, the main effect is almost exclusively that it makes the weapon easier and more forgiving to use. If you don't have time to do the Spirit Slash, you can probably make time for Foresight, making many of your combos safe without even needing to think about the monster's moveset. But is that a good thing? I really don't think so. I think this is too much safety and options for one weapon to wield in this game, and I feel like that's partially at the root of a lot of this vitriol. You're absolutely right. Longsword feels like a spoiled, popular kid that keeps getting all the fun stuff without even asking (in fact, often while actively objectively because the majority of the online community just wants to enjoy the game without being harassed) while many other weapons have to beg and plead over the course of multiple releases to get much needed improvements. It's a symbol not only of the series becoming faster and easier over time (which some people love, some people hate, and some people tolerate but very much fear), but also of the inequality that this kind of rapid development has created among Monster Hunter's iconic and beloved weapon classes.
monster hunter is about slapping big animals with weapons (mostly) bigger than the wielder or in the dual blades' case, roleplaying as an attack on titan character without the gas-powered mobility device. because the gas-powered mobility device is you. every weapon is a weeb weapon. the thing with the longsword is because it's good at everything instead of specializing in a niche. its exceedingly easy to pick up. and it only gets easier from there.
The issue with the longsword is that it gets the benefits of different weapons, like Lance's counter mechanic or Great Sword's damage, while also being agile like Dual blades, without ANY drawbacks. No long animations, no chip damage, no huge sharpness loss, no stamina drain, nothing. It's also extremely simple to build for it, since you ONLY need quick sheathe for it to be completely broken. Any other skills beyond that are overkill really, since you already demolish any monster in the game.
The learning curve is steeper though. If you're good with LS then you'll do really good, but if you're not so familiar with it then you're going to end up struggling a lot. It's performance isn't that much different from SA and CB either, it just trades their gimmicks for its own. In fact, if you aren't familiar enough with LS to know how to combo properly, you'd probably do better using either SA or CB because they have such similar performance but are more forgiving with their learning curve.
Yeah except try fighting any rock wyvern and you'll find how hard using a LS is, since any time the sword deflects off it loses double the sharpness and does glancing damage, barsarios for example the only weak spots you can do sever damage is it's underside but the wings almost completely block any attack from a LS due to the weapons long reach.
@@toddniceman5818 I've got about 1k hunts on LS in World alone, I'd say I know what I'm talking about. PS: LS is even stronger in Rise, so my point stands even more correct
LS was hated for a long time bc it would trip any hunter on the same hemisphere of the monster but when mhw hit the weapon has been able to do more damage than a GS and the skill required to get to that level is far lower. LS has a high skill CEILING but the amount needed to put out crazy damage with minimal risk is very low when compared to any other big damage class like GS or CB. Thats my take and reasoning for disliking LS, its overtuned, requires little skill to do big damage, and has no drawbacks being a fast weapon
@@CleopatraKing Indeed I mained it in every game they were a separate weapon. In world the Iai counter and the Iai spirit counter were actually fairly difficult to time. Not impossible but you actually need to know when the monster hit box actually starts. In Rise though they removed the normal Iai counter... and made the spirit counter absolutely fking BUSTED. Its so stupidly safe and if u have quick sheath 3 you can almost spirit counter a whole monster combo. The timing just seems more forgiving... as for the foresight slash atleast you need to make a choice on whether you should do the spirit finisher or attack and go into foresight again is SOMETHIGN but its so easy in rise to just no brain the Spirit counter
I mean, i never really notice LS users tripping me that much. It’s usually a bowgun user that can’t aim, or some foolish hammer user standing there and swinging at everything except the monster.
I started with MH4, and the LS trips in multi-player were never-ending. I've avoided the LS ever since then because I don't want to inflict that suffering on others. I don't even use it when I hunt solo.
Some notes and thoughts on this video. First, props for posting a video at all. Topics like these tend to be volatile, so I respect you forming an opinion and sharing it in a concise well-edited form. Second, just as a general thought, I think what is missing from the LS kit is risk. Every weapon from a giant stick and tower shield to two kitchen knives has a degree of risk naturally attached to them. For the two I just mentioned, the Lance is heavily reliant on positioning since you have a limited degree of movement for attacking, dodging, and blocking while the Dual Blades are heavily reliant/limited by your stamina management while also having low raw damage but extremely fast attack speed. From what I know of Long Sword (correct me if I'm wrong), the main risk factor is that you have to be extremely aggressive and liberal with attacking since most of your damage is coming from the Spirit Gauge, but that leaves you more open to being punished. However, as the games progressed, this risk factor became less and less prevalent until we reach today where the Long Sword is not only extremely aggressive but extremely safe with all the movement and countering available to it. For more precise thoughts: (6:33-6:53) I can see where you are coming from, but this can be said of all weapons. One of the most prevalent gameplay loops in all MH games is being able to read a monster's movement and being able to react appropriately whether that be dodging, blocking, or attacking. (7:22-8:01) Again, I can see where you are coming from, but I think you are missing a key detail: All ranged weapons have the trade-off of limited attacks. Except for Normal Shot 1 for Bowguns and Close Range Coating (+ no coating) for Bows, all of the other ammunition is limited. This means that the ranged weapons do pack a significant punch, but only for a limited amount of time. The consequences of this are twofold: the ranged weapons are perfect for speedruns but weaken the longer a fight goes on (though this is almost completely negated in World and Rise thanks to the camps). Additionally, ranged weapons have the benefit of not being in range of most attacks, thus negating the risk of being hit, thus naturally lowering the percentage of time needed to heal. (11:04-11:40) I actually vehemently disagree with you on the topic of flinching. This is probably a volcanic take to most people, but I actually like the flinching mechanic for one simple reason: it reinforces cooperation. Part of this cooperation is tied to the niches of each weapon along with their respective damage types, but the flinching forces you to be aware of your surrounding and take into account not only the monster but the other members of your team. This sense of cooperation, in turn, reinforces the idea that each hunter is not just playing their own game, but that you are corporately playing the same game. To tangent a little, this is the same reason why I grew to love team attack doubles in Smash Bros. You have to be constantly aware of your teammate and coordinate attacks to be the most effective. To give you credit, DarkHero, I do think that some attacks should not trip. For example, the giant sweep attack of the LS and the Shrapnel Shot of the BGs since, in the former, the range is too wide to not hit someone else and, in the latter, the player has little to no control over where the shot hits. (12:05-15:42) I think you hit the nail on the head! In a game that is supposed to be all about player style freedom, it's extremely frustrating when a particular playstyle isn't up to snuff and especially when an entire weapon class is boosted to high heavens while those that desperately need buffing are Yamcha'ed. As a resident Hunting Horn (#DootHammer4Life) and Gunlance main, I'm no stranger to getting left behind, disregarded, and reviled, but the treatment the LS gets just makes it all sting a bit worse. To anyone who actually read all this, thank you for your time and I'd love to hear your opinions, *even if they're wrong and I hate them.*
Longsword isn't "extremely safe". The average player will only land a hanful of Foresight Slashes and *maybe* one or two ISSes per hunt. The average player is quite bad at reading and predicting monsters. Effective LS play, not top tier just effective, requires good monster knowledge and the ability to capitalize on that and time counters consistently. For a good chunk of people, Foresight is pretty easy to time. But most people that feel that way are not the average player, or the casual player. LS's risk definitely balances out its power. I don't think quite well enough in Rise, but it did in World. LS wasn't as strong in World as it is in Rise. It was also more punishing. In World, whiffing an ISS meant that you lost a spirit gauge level. Whereas in Rise, you just incur the damage from it. The MVs were overall lower as well, which meant that LS was roughly middle of the pack in terms of damage output and that was always reflected in speedruns. LS never gained "less risk" pre-World, I don't know where that logic even comes from. The only attacks it ever gained from FU to 4th gen was the spirit run-in slash and the fadeslashes. The former was simply a shortcut to spirit 3, while the latter is a repositioning tool that allowed you to deal some damage in the process. It has no i-frames, so it has as much risk as before. In fact, it has more risk than previously because you're incentivized to use fadeslashes to dodge certain moves, which is inherently riskier than just using a dodge roll. I do agree with the idea that LS gains too much power for the effort required in Rise. It's still a difficult weapon to use effectively, but the amount of practice and knowledge necessary for LS is definitely lesser than most other weapons to reach the same results.
Don't worry there are some LS players that know what to do and aren't just anime weebs who interrupt everyone attacks and then Insult them for not doing anything. As a LS/Ha user who isn't like that, it pains me that more and more LS users are like that and other weapons are left behind.
Adding onto your part about ranged weapons, something some people forget is that is gunners take SIGNIFICANTLY more damage if we fuck up. It’s common to see inexperienced HBGs cart regularly because a single wrong read can lead to an instant cart at times.
@@TheTeletrap Don't forget the resource management. I've been a Gunner since MHFU and I hardly see the topic of resource management and effort come up when people go around bashing my beloved HBG. They have little to no understanding as to just how much time, zenny, and dedication it takes to keep and maintain a stockpile of both ammo types and the combos for said ammo types. Gunning is EXTREAMLY expensive to get into. Buying ammo in the beginning cuts drastically into your funds and forces you to hunt more frequently in order to upgrade your gear while at the same time stockpiling ammo. Not to mention that you can't simply just buy all the best ammo types at the start, most are locked behind certain quests or HR. Which then leaves you farming for the combos for your powerful ammos, and that is a time consuming process that you constantly have to be on top of and altering based on your gun. Sure you could trade using village points for some of the combo items, but in order to keep doing that you now have to take steps in order to keep a steady flow of points to spend on combo items. The litany of processes you have to perform as a gunner in order to simply be prepared for the hunt is a cost that goes unseen by the uninitiated. All they see is just BIG DAMAGE and then complain that they're weapon doesn't do that BIG DAMAGE. The true cost of being a Gunner comes as a tax on your time. Time spent at the farm, gathering materials, waiting for a sale at the vendor, trading for items, buying ammo, doing extra quests for zenny and village points. Gunners spend A LOT of time doing A LOT of shit outside the core gameplay loop just to play the game with an LBG/HBG/Bow. And THAT is the price pay for the power we wield.
I started playing Monster Hunter in MH4U, and longsword was already a deeply disliked weapon in my group. There was only three of us so we'd usually fill the last slot with a random. We ran into so many longsword user's that constantly tripped us over.
I only started in world but I got the same experience, then I tried it out, had fun, my friends got annoyed cause of the tripping, so I made a small rule with myself. I started to learn HH and now when we play, I play HH and when I'm alone or really struggling against a monster I take the LS. It is quite easy but I still have fun and my friends don't mind it too much now, still prefer HH though lol
The problem with that type of unbalance is that it pushes all players to play the same weapon and not everyone properly understand the weapon not only that but what is the point on having multiple weapons if 2 weapons clearly are better than the rest
I absolutely agree when 1 weapon has such an easy time taking down monsters it's hard to play other weapons cause your just use to high damage Mobility and faster quest times
Hard disagree. LS player since freedom and its not the damage or balance that made me stop playing the LS. Its the 10, 000 ways to counter everything that makes it boring. Now i play all 13 weapons.
If you think of it like you're making a RUclips challenge. Something like 'Playing only X weapon until I beat G rank! I You won't believe how easy it was! (Not clickbait!) Then it becomes more funny instead of just pointless. At least that's how I do it.
the thing about the LS is that there has only been added more and more to the kit, without removing anything or giving the moves any drawbacks. its become the most overloaded weapon imo and -even if it might be fun to play for many people, its become kind of boring for me as all these counterattacks and instant evades take away much of the basic skill when playing the game (roll dodging for the most part. Who even does that with LS anymore?).
They removed the claw counter of the lance from world(wich was a ton of fun)...... but they imported most of hunter arts from ultimate + world to the LS in Rise.......the hypocrisy.
ill put it this way as a hunting horn main, was having trouble with teostra, never touched long sword in my life, i put together a shody build and went from getiing stomped to stmping with 0 carts in 5 minutes
From when I started playing, LS has always been regarded as the newb weapon afaik. It was also hated cause the long reach meant people kept getting tripped which lead to an even worse reputation.
Coming from a LS main since World, I HATED LS users in MH Tri because of the freaking stagger. They would never target the tail and always spirit slash my patience away until one of us carted. When I'd hunt with LS, I'd swing like covid existed in-game; six feet away from another hunter. Nowadays, idgaf who plays what as long as they don't leech while spamming stickers... It's a game to most and there will always be annoyances in any game you play. If people hate it that much, they can go back to league of legends lol
@@DJponkthispartay Personally i hate it to the core when playing MHW cause i'm a hammer main and there's always a random that aim for the head and not the tails. Keep staggering me in mid combo so i have to sacrifice 1 jewel slot for flinch free. But then again it's all about having fun with the weapon you like so i don't really care that much anymore
@@xMogek I run Flinch Free 3 from World having it benefit Insect Glaive, just a bad habit... but I generally don't need it, you don't get to be a Seasoned Hunter and not pick up various tricks to avoid tripping. I do run it for hunting with randoms, but never need it with those I know better.
This also reminded me when the elder gave me a long sword as the story progresses. Me as a lance main at that time: what am I supposed to do with this?
Personally what I don't like about the LS is that the game is now getting designed around it. Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting the feeling the monsters got adjusted (moving around like they have the zoomies) to compensate for how OP the LS and its counters are. So now slower weapons don't have as much openings to exploit. :(
Yep, although this extends to other weapons getting counters as well. Fuck counters man, why are we getting babied so hard? It's as if Capcom doesn't trust us to dodge.
@@revonfyll I think the other weapons getting counters is kinda the LS's fault too. So they at least could keep up n shit. Doesn't change the fact that I still dislike the shift to counter-based combat 😢
@@zanido9073 Lol no. Zl+A has huge windows and most counters in general have very generous windows. Not only that, the reward is insane GS: Charge instantly to TCS LS: Yeah alright SA: Reach amped state instantly CB: Load phials and be able to SAED afterwards A lot of counters straight up circumvent entire weapon mechanics. Reaching the hardest hitting attack of your toolkit was something you had to work towards and it made the weapons feel deep. If you can press ZL+A instead to negate damage, deal damage back AND power yourself up, then no counters are definitely not harder to pull off for the immense reward you get. They are very low risk/great reward which is very apparent since once you get used to a particular counter it overcentralizes a weapon and it's all about spamming that counter.
@@PsycheTrance65 Yep, I agree. I think out of all the shieldless Blademaster weapons, LS makes the most sense to have a counter, being samurai and that shit, but it definitely doesn't need as many as it does now. I think both foresight slash and iai counter are overkill.
Honestly, I think you missed the mark completely on why people don't like LS in the modern era. In fairness though, the video was made before sunbreak, so I'm not going to rant about information DarkHero 2 couldn't have known so I'll attempt to keep post release knowledge to a minimum. TLDR: Ranged users can die for the DPS they provide, LS doesn't. LS is better than every melee weapon at everything, while also being the safest. Pick a power line between hunters and monsters and buff weapons under it, and nerf LS down to it, don't just buff everything cause I don't want to see MH devolve into Glass Cannon vs Glass Cannon. if the devs want a counter focused weapon, sure, fine, I won't play it but others will enjoy that, and I'm totally cool with that. But that counter weapon can't also be better than every other weapon at everything. In regards to the tripping thing: it used to be annoying, but frankly, anyone that can't find a single 1 deco slot to put in flinch free is just being stubborn. Plenty of weapons trip people, and FF should be standard in every players set. If you aren't slotting that in, you have no business complaining. So wouldn't actually put that on LS. It was a problem, the devs gave people the solution in the form of Flinch Free. much like stun res, or tremor res. You can't complain about a mechanic, when the game provided you with an optional solution that you, as the player, are choosing to opt out of. Onto the actual LS though. What I think you missed the most was the reason Ranged Weapons aren't as hated as LS despite doing more or equivalent damage. And what i believe is this: Ranged weapon users can actually die on hunts. Their damage comes at a cost a vulnerability, uptime, ammo management, and mediocre silkbinds. The reason speedrunning HBG tends to be so good is because the monster literally never gets to play the game, sticky ammo, into spread, into traps, into para, etc etc etc. But on a normal hunt without a cracked speedrunner, HBG users can get wrecked from tons of hits from different monsters, some outright potentially killing them if they haven't got health birds. Bow is the closest in terms of offense and defense to LS, but even then, bow only has Dodgebolt, and other than that, the normal rolling like everyone else. And if a bow user does get hit, just like HBG that is gonna HURT. Now longsword on the other hand is doing better damage than all other melee weapons and comparable to ranged weapons while ALSO getting the defensive bonus of being melee in general, on top of its multitude of counters that require no defensive armor skills to be improved saved for Quick Sheathe 3, which is incredibly easy to get on TOP of the fact Long Sword has no unique armor skills required to improve itself beyond that. No Rapid Morph, Load Shells, Evasion skills, Stam skills (bow and DBs). Foresight slash is a better dodge than evade window 5 dodge in any other weapon, can be used almost anywhere in the LS combos, can go any direction and if the slice lands, goes immediately into the stage 4 of the spirit slash for instant gauge. That alone makes it the best defensive weapon in the entire game. Better than any weapon with a shield. Additionally, the Iai double slash gives passive LS gauge to get spriit slashes. Boy I sure do wish SA, CB, DB, GL got a move that give passive Gauge or Ammo, even while they're using said resources. LS does why can't anyone else?. on TOP of all that, the red gauge, while giving LS a totally unecessary massive damage buff, there's no move in the LS arsenal that really spends the gauge realisticly, and ever if they do, you just get the level back. Additionally LS can refresh the red gauge at any time to keep it permanent if its not spending it. And this is all before getting to the silkbinds. Pre-sunbreak, I'm willing to bet Soaring Kick did more effective DPS than any other silkbind in the game. While also only costing 1 bug, decent recovery time, fast usage, very easy to hit, and when it did hit, all the hits activated regardless. Post sunbreak, they gave it impossibly long recovery time, effectively bricking it, cause the other LS silkbinds are so good to its not much of a loss. Finally, I don't agree with the sentiments of "just buff all weapons to be as good as LS" and for the reason that power creep is a thing. The balance between hunter power and monster power has to be maintained, and if all weapons got super buffed to LS levels, the monsters would have to follow. Which would eventually lead to Glass Cannon fights where because the weapons are so forgiving, the monsters have to be unforgiving to punish mistakes. And having to play perfectly to not get 1 shot(or comboed) is stressful and generally can be unfun. What I'm worried about is the devs will listen to people saying buff all the weapons, trivializing monsters, then buffing monsters, and the game devolves from when it was about Forethought, monster knowledge, precise movement and attacks, to something more twitchy, where you don't have to know anything about what you're fighting, cause you have the tools and animation cancels to auto-correct regardless of whatever the monster tries. Now if the devs want a counter focused weapon like that, sure, fine, I won't play it but others will enjoy that, and I'm totally cool with that. But that twitchy counter weapon can't also be better than every other weapon at everything. That ability to counter has to come at a cost though.
As a former Longsword main, I mostly agree with you. I started using the LS when it was first introduced. Back then it was so powerful that its raw stats were almost as high as the greatswords. It had almost the same damage numbers as the GS, was faster and had better sharpness. It lost ( got balanced) some of its raw power, in later entries and gained new moves to compensate for the loss. It maintained its speed, reach and its moveset was easy to understand but difficult to fully master. That was before World/iceborn was released. World introduced so many forgiving mechanics to make the game more accessible for newcomers, subsequently "powercreeping" the LS. Rise doubled down. But the thing that really changed the communities perspective towards LS form indifference to irrational hate, were videos on this damned platform. Many unskilled and klickbaity youtubers complained about flinching and started calling all LS users weebs, that it turned into a stereotyp. Ultimately I believe that balancing will always be an issue in games. There's always going to be a " best weapon type ". The negativity or sometimes blatant toxicity in the community, is mostly generated on youtube. People get too emotional about this stuff. I'm glad the game has no pvp or any other competitive element, cause that would make the community even more toxic than it already is.
@@neronihil1710 I understand what you mean. Years ago I also thought of LS users being just hte pathetic Speedrunner Meta Assholes. But it's the game that causes the problems in the first place. I haven't been to invested in the entire LS gameplay since I prefer the Glaive anyways, but I noticed that the LS got more and more and more buffs but no drawbacks. MH Rise changed the Kinsect for example. I couldn't max out my Kinsect the way I wanted anymore. At first I was abit annoyed by it, but after a while it became tolerable. It made me use Kinsects and abilities I haven't used before, so I think that's a good design. But the LS just becomes stronger, faster, ever more effective. To a point where it looks like LS Player don't need to understand the Monster Movesets no more.
I'm a hammer main, and nearly every time knock down a creature long swords go for the head messing up my combos. They never seem to go for anything but the head in my experience.
I know why they do it. Many monsters doing dmg on the tail is worse than the head unless the monster is in the enraged state. But yeah still they dont attack anything else because head is best spot to smack for like almost every monster
So I’m LS main and have been since MH Unite, but it’s our job to go for the tail and the arms after that. The people you’ve been playing with just suck and have no idea what their doing.
CB and IG were absolutely broken 4U to GU, them being retooled and balanced were warranted. If you want to talk about weapons getting absolutely destroyed, look towards the bow, while the dragon piercer and new moves, stamina problem was what gutted it absolutely for early to midgame.
Yeah, current LS is by no means OP. It's very strong, mind you, but not 4U levels of "click R and X+A and you win" kinds of braindeadness. 4U CB had a huge skill ceiling as well, don't get me wrong, but I'd argue that the skill floor was lower than current LS.
Longsword has ALWAYS had a history of being a MH Pariah. Mainly due to tripping. It’s a cool weapon, no arguments there, and watching a high skilled Longsword main do their thing emphasizes the elegance of the weapon. But man. Don’t I feel like every player and content creator just straight up ignore the beautiful possibilities of the other weapons.
i feel like gunlances are bigger menaces when it comes to "friendly fire" and staggering allies. getting interrupted while performing or, in rise, firing a magnificent trio or earthshaker happens more often than i'd like.
@@bottomlefto While this IS true of Gunlance, especially in World onwards… …for a long time nobody USED Gunlance. GL has had (as one person put it) a bit of an “identity crisis” throughout the games it has appeared in. What does it do that lance can’t do better? How do you make it both gun AND lance? What do shells do? Should we emphasize shell gameplay or lance gameplay? Where’s my Dragonator? And on top of that it’s unapproachable, particularly to newbies. It has an absolutely borked combo system rivalling that of the Charge Blade. It has an internal weapon class list of considerations (wide vs normal vs long shell as well as shelling level), and unusual skill aptitudes (artillery is pretty niche towards GL and Charge Blade). People just barely picking up the game looked at this thing, tried it, then wondered “who the hell would be crazy enough to USE this thing?” To which my fellow GL mains laughed, of course, because we abandoned sanity a long time ago. To live for the moment you stick a boomstick into a monster and pull the trigger is the Gunlance creed. But yeah, I agree. It was risky to play with a GL who didn’t know what they were doing, however rare we were. I had to get EXTREMELY good at not sending my teammates flying when blasting a monster. I was also the only person rocking Gunlance and Hunting Horn for the reasons I stated earlier. Big point being: there weren’t enough Gunlance players around to piss off the community enough to meme it into pariah status like the Longsword, which has always been more approachable and, by extension, more commonly see aggravating people into ragequitting Monster Hunter.
@@HarryPotter-uv8yp Lance main here, you are right about the gunlance being worse in every way. The shells are really cool, but what's the point when you can sprint full charge into shit and drill them into oblivion, not to mention free jump attacks for a mount. I never saw any situation where the gun Lance would beat out the Lance, but damn does sending a giant explosion into the monsters face feel good.. At least we can both relate to being shafted in Sunbreak, tho
The only problem I have with it is: If you use it, you *better* be able to take a hit if you miss your parry. The number of carts I've seen from overconfident LS users that screwed up and took a hit they could have easily dodged is way too damn high. I don't want to fight a monster for 10-15 minutes only for some overconfident LS user taking a hit at low health and being the 3rd cart. *Make sure you have enough health to survive a hit if you screw up that parry.* That is all. If you keep an eye on that health, we'll get along just fine. This is coming from a DB psychopath that dodge dances with monsters and gets enough airtime to make a IG user blush.
I kid you not when I say in my 1,000 hours on rise all of my quest fails came from LS users. The likelyhood of getting a good LS user is low so unfortunately, I do a quick HR/Gear check and more often than not end up kicking them. It sucks but I'm not going online to waste 30 minutes for them to cart when the monster is weak because yolo/swag.
@@BlackBeltGamers88 I'm actually curious that if you play on Switch, have you encountered a player named Cherushi? If so, that was me and I always keep my health in top shape and I'm rarely the reason why quests fail (World/Iceborne practice before I got Rise). I wouldn't call myself a god tier longsword player but I see myself as decent at the very least. I plan to pick up the greatsword eventually too
I don't doubt there are good LS players, I have seen them. However, spamming helmsplitter every second it's up and getting hit every time is a detriment to overall dps. If their goals is high dps they're doing it wrong. I don't think I've seen you or if I have I wouldn't remember. I play solo until I've completed each hunt, and I recommend all players solo a hunt before going to multiplayer and being carried. That's where the biggest problem of unskilled hunters come from. They look at the meta dps no def set, get carried to end game not knowing how to tie their own shows and waste the rest of our time failing our quests. It's one thing to fail with a group of friends but it sucks to start a hunt and have a rando tag in late and just cart 3 times in 30 seconds. Othertimes I go online as a healbot and force quests to not fail. But since we don't have layered HH, I can't have my healing bombadgy horn anymore so I have no interest in horn without that specific doot doot stick.
@@BlackBeltGamers88 Soloing the first time, or at least hanging around a monster the first time you see it, is a great practice. I'm not asking everyone to be able to solo every monster, but at least learn the monster's attacks and its movements. Like Gore doing its 180, not only does it attack with its wingclaws, but it does a tail whip as well. Seen a ton of people caught by that tail the first few days of Sunbreak. If you're inexperienced with a monster and in multiplayer, the least you can do is hang back and study the monster. Get a few hits when you can. So long as you aren't costing us an unnecessary cart, I don't mind carrying a little. We're finishing this thing in 15 minutes, regardless.
I've been using longsword for a long long time. How much more fluid the moveset has become is great, but it's overtuned by a lot. The s for counter moves all last about 95 minutes of a 50 minute quest if you even need more than 5. The new silkbind moves also have crazy damage for how easy they are to pull off. If I can hit for 500-1000 damage with low rank gear and no armor skills, it's too high. That said, I still love the weapon, and I won't be too upset if it (we know the devs won't hurt their baby) ever gets nerfed to a reasonable level.
I think the damage comparison is true for vanilla Rise but with Sunbreak they clearly went with the "Guilty Gear Strive" route, meaning that they achieve balance by making everything overpowered. Maybe in the hands of a top speedrunner it still is king but in my opinion it's a lot easier to deal the same amount of damage with other weapons, faster. Like the time it takes to build up gauge (mid combat) and deliver the perfect Sacred Sheath Combo I could've done 2 Switch Axe parries and 2 amped discharges on the monster. Or you can position yourself well and do a Wyvern Fire + Bullet Barrage for a crap ton of damage. TLDR: To me it feels like the gap between LS and other weapons in Sunbreak is way smaller than in vanilla Rise.
@@Ocean5ix Thank You person who has not been blind to literally every other video that has dropped since Sunbreak, because other than Gunlance not having enough max level shelling options, most of the weapons look like they have all ascended to a higher plan. Even I a GS noob with less than 20 hunts said," Dang, that Anjanath armor looking sexy with the Aknosom blade." and I have killed a lot of monsters far faster than I actually think I would have with my LS. I tried the SnS because i liked how the Royal Sword looked, and have become adept at bonking the headcase of a monster for more free dps. And the Insect Glaive? Well like riding a bike I started pressing buttons like i was back in 4U and it just worked out lol. TLDR: I think all the weapons are very similar in power level within reason for Sunbreak. I have been able to hunt with weapon I have very low skill with almost as effectively and have become more preferable to using other weps for different hunts. And at the end of the day i still only see bowguns when i go online so I'm just like whatever at this point as long as nothing gets nerfed "too" hard I'm chilling.
The Longsword in Freedom Unite was fun and kinda balanced. Then in Portable 3rd/Tri we got the spirit gauge system, which was fine as well. I only see the Longsword becoming a problem from World onwards, since in Gen/XX every weapon was overturned if used with the right style. It became really frustrating to stand anywhere really when you get knocked on your butt all the time by lingering hitboxes. You know there's a reason why this weapon has an accurate nickname in German. Stolperstock (literally Stumble Stick) because you couldn't do anything without flinch free. But not only the Longsword had a habit of flinching people. On the topic of speedrunning I can see why people say Bow is way stronger. But as a bow main since Gen/XX I kinda beg to differ a bit. Yes it's strong but you really have to hit the parts that are weak to ranged weapons or you don't do any damage at all. I'm talking e.g. an optimal shot with a Spread 5 bow doing 5x50 damage while hitting a bit to the left makes that 5x1-3. Compared to Longsword where optimal hits do about 80 and suboptimal do 30-40 higher floor lower ceiling. What I'm saying is: ranged weapons are volatile. Let's take Kushala daora as an example of "ungrateful" ranged targets. As a blademaster you hit effectively on head, tail and forelegs. Ranged weapons? Forelegs. One critzone that doesn't like to stay put. When he does his wind shield everything except tail and head is a 0 for bow. No hits at all. Another one of those monsters is Rakna Kadaki. Only effective hitzone is the head, which is surrounded by pincers, legs and butt. But the most infuriating thing I have seen, and that's done mostly by longswords, is not staying where you do make sense. If you have a bladed weapon you aim is tail severs first. Then do whatever. But if I am using a hammer don't come close to me with that Longsword trying to hit the head when the tail is still attached. Rant ended. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
i agree with your rant/statement as an current hammer player especialy i ones got so mad at a longsword for tripping me i told him to go to the tail since hes a bladed weapon later that day he commented on my steam profile about how i had the audacity to tell him to go to tail most people i know try so hard to be "pro hunters" that they allways attack the head because "its he weakest hitzone of the monster" i get it for gunners who need to hit that cause of how ranged damae works but especcialy with an hammer in your team pls break the other parts of the monster and dont stagger hammer to death also annoying is when you later tell thoese longswords to reposition most of the go "just slot 1 flinch free" just because flinch free ist an Lv.1 stone in rise (unlike world with Lv.3) doesent mean that i always can/will have the slots free to put in one flinch free i should not have to compansate for other players ignorance i remember that in older games it was part of the unritten rules to mind your positionong but somehow in gen.5 especially rise everybody goes for the head since everyone has/needs to have flinch free equipped sorry for the long comment/extra rant if i dont stop soon i start ranting about how nobody sleep bombs anymore or some shit
@@raidra0973 yeah, I agree with you. as a 4u player that's a definite thing, and if people don't know, someone is usually gonna bring it up in a room, and pretty much everyone listened to each other to a certain extent, since teamwork was crucial. if the same verbal interaction happened in an old world game, you could bet that LS player was gonna get kicked from the hall, 100%.
I loved Tri LS. It was about fluid attacks and skillful positioning. It was still really simple, but it followed all the rules the other weapons had. The fact that World and Rise still have that core moveset is a vile mockery, because the old play style is completely outclassed by parry parry parry. Why play Monster Hunter, when Capcom would clearly rather have us all play Monster Counter?
I always loved the longsword because of it’s really cool design and because I always had a soft spot for weapons like the Nodachi but LS really didn’t need that much of a buff in rise especially considering how OP the LS already is in MHW. I like using switch axe and I’m considering getting into weapons like CB and GS and I’ve already noticed how much harder hunts are. Switch axe isn’t as bad because I have prior experience unlike CB and GS, but with things like spirit Iai slash, and foresight which is just a “fuck you” to damage, I can see why most people see no point in switching off LS because it’s just so easy. It’s a low risk-ridiculously high reward weapon and giving it more damage negating abilities and other broken shit is stupid af. Especially when other weapons were in actual need of some decent buffs at the very least were just completely ignored. I love LS but I completely understand why people dislike the weapon for what it is because the weapon is dumb OP.
i loved the longsword in world, it both felt fast and slow. fast when in combat and countering everything the monster throws at you, but slow when having to start out. it really did get ultra buffed in rise however, but i still have a soft spot for the sunbreak LS mainly because PriMal is super fun to fight with LS especially when you become a counter machine during his insane combo. but the powered up version still beats my ass
@@Flopdoodle wouldnt disagree its an oversized weeb stick but being a katana doesnt mean its automatically bad design it knows its a weebstick for people who want cool points and max deeps, and it look and feels that way so capcom is doing something right notion of it being for weebs is also really dumb because mh series is originally for japanese people by japanese people so of course there will be design elements from japan weebs are just more inclined to use LS but you dont have to be a weeb to like LS gameplay also, fucking hell what did the original commenter even do to you lmao
i started in 3u, and was in the community for GU. before world, the weapon had playful jokes about tripping, but nothing like the straight malice that i, and the community now share. i will state, i liked 3U LS, and GU LS, however even valor has a BUNCH of differences from current Rise LS, which from my understanding is a bit more similar to Frontier Z's LS. Old LS was very punishing, and has always been a side main, and one of my fav BM weapons until World, where lance felt buttery smooth. not only did you have to fight this ticking clock on your weapon but also keep your spirit gauge full to have the dmg boost from that, and then expend it in bursts. this meant to be a good LS you had to basically always be on the monster, and with the range of its teeth and claws. GS could sheath is weapon and disengage to set up a new headsnipe, Lances had their shields, Sns had its disengages and a lesser shield, Dual blades had its quick steps. LS really didnt have a defensive option until Gu with crit juncture (which is worse than serene pose btw). Ls only had the roll, and the fade slash which was a positioning tool to stay on the monster. You could argue fade slash was a defensive tool, but it was slow af, didnt have i frames, and didnt go all that far. i dont think you could escape Teo's claw swipe when he has blast aura. If you were being a coward as an LS, or getting hit too often, blade level loss. got carted? all levels lost. not being aggressive enough post Spirit combo? lost your buff. Compare that to even ice borne LS, you now have special sheath, and iai slash just gives you free unlimited spirit for a time, that you can do whenever, and got back when you helm breaker. meaning high tier LS play was, iai slashing, getting to level 3, Helm breaker, an attack, then spirit combo and then helm breaker again. Add a Counter that give copious I frames, normie Iai slash also gives I frames, foresight slash, which gives i frames, and a free blade level if you were bout to get hit. Rise, gave LS a better crit junture, that can be used more often, and automatically hits the target if they hit you. Crit juncture once triggered, wasnt free dmg, you had to actually land the attack as well. on top of that Crit juncture was a skill that took a lot of time to build, maybe granting 2 attacks on the avg hunt, 3 on long ones and up to like 5 on lao shan lung. Also hunter arts required you to hit the monster to build, while wirebugs recharge on a timer. Overall the worst addition to LS was the special sheath. The normal Iai slash is often overlooked because it doesnt have good dmg, and isnt that flashy. However Iai slash completely trivialized the basic mechanic of the weapon that required hunters to be able to consistently hit a monster over the course of a hunt. LS will never be considered a well balanced weapon until special sheath as a whole gets fuckin Culled.
Imo Sacred Sheathe is a healthier playstyle for LS, just remove the level up aspect of Sakura Slash or make its cooldown as long as Soaring Kick. Like sure it automatically counters for you during the startup sheathing animation but that comes at the cost of a valuable Spirit Gauge level for mediocre damage which you don't want, and you don't have the luxury of a constantly regenerating Spirit Gauge as you do with Special Sheathe. Sacred Sheathe counter is ever so slightly more generous, but it doesn't deal the same amount of damage as the ISS does, and also doesn't let you stand still for almost five whole seconds to wait for an attack to counter unless you're not running QS3 on, which then you lessen the output of your charged attacks. I stopped playing LS in base Rise because the ISS playstyle felt hollow as hell for me, but I've gone back to the weapon in Sunbreak to play a Sacred Sheathe/Tempered Spirit Blade focused playstyle. Feels like I'm learning the weapon all over again, and certainly doesn't feel like I'm turning off my brain and autopiloting as much as I did with the ISS playstyle.
@@ThirdCosmicVelocity if you time the sacred sheath release correctly you actually get a guard point that doesn't waste spirit gauge and instead allows a follow up for the spirit roundslash to gain a level but that guard point is hard to hit, its like the valor style counter but weaker
@@3CODKing It's actually quite generous I feel. The issue is the fact that it's not at all a reactionary sort of counter. For the guard point in GU, you could just stand there and reflexively press your Spirit Combo when an attack comes out to counter. For the ISS, you sheathe and you wait. With the Sacred Sheathe, you're not just sitting there and waiting for a counter, at best you're weaving the SSC in-between attacks in anticipation of a hit, and even if you land it it deals mediocre damage at best compared to the ISS. It also doesn't propel you forward and out of danger like the ISS, so if you miss the window you're a sitting duck if you don't have time to do Thrust > Foresight Slash.
My problem with longsword isn’t that its flashy or getting buffed or anything! I think thats fantastic that its able to do so many cool moves :) my problem with it is that the other weapons don’t get the same treatment., the moves added to lance in sunbreak felt like the biggest slap in the face after icebornes additions.,
It's hard to be a lance and a longsword main lol I use baiscally every weapons (some more than others, but i still use all of them time to time) and yeah, some really need better things... the new "hidden" moves for lance that weren't in the demo (the new shield dash and that one that sends you flying backwards) are actually very useful defensively, but i don't like the skyward thrust, lance really needs a Big hitting move i feel, like the Corkscrew jab from mhgu, i loved that art
"the long sword has high skill ceiling because you need to learn the timing of the monsters in order to evade and punish them" as opposed to the other weapons that don't need to learn monster attacks? That's not a good argument. LS just makes it so that instead of having like 0.1s of i-frame you have 1s instead.
@@user-dm7ui6zx2u My main point is that saying "LS is hard because you need to learn the monsters" is not fair, since all weapons need to learn the monsters. You don't take something that's inherent to the entire game, and attribute that to just a single weapon and not the others. The "0.1s vs 1s" is more of an addendum to that point. And 0.1s refers to the roll. And I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, both 0.1 and 1 are probably wrong it's just what it feels like to me. The point is foresight slash has much longer i-frames than normal rolling.
As a dual blades main, I do not do much learning, there is some but for the most part I jump and stab then run away until their attack animation ends then repeat, I’m level 90 master rank
I'm relatively new to the series, so when I first played Rise, I loved the LS. It was so stylish and did so much damage, why wouldn't I use it? Of course, as time went on I began to get bored of it. After much experimentation, I finally settled on LB, Bow, and SnS. I enjoy being a support/long-range player, and I found SnS to be more rewarding when I wanted something melee. That said, I still have a soft spot for the hand-me-down LS, and still use it occasionally.
for me at least, I use the LS specifically because i'm not very good at A: multiple weapon forms and combos, and B: monster hunter as a whole. I either hunt solo or use it so I don't bog my team down by being terrible and so I can still have fun.
I’m perfectly fine with LS being a powerful weapon. My biggest issue comes with the risk/reward ratio. There is little to no risk with LS. If missing a counter or move REMOVED a level like MHWI, I’d say it’s worth it. Since that risk is gone but it keeps the reward, that’s how it feels broken
Isn't missing a counter and possibly dying from it due to monsters having multi hit combos not a good enough risk as it is? What about the guardpoints from charge blade then? Should they remove all the phials and buffs if you miss the guard point? That is the exact same logic you are using there. You are literally getting the counter or getting the hit, the risk and reward are clearly displayed there. Missing your spirit helm / sacred sheath etc.. or being hit mid animation still consumes the gauge levels. Isn't that the exact same treatment that any other weapon gets? You miss you get hit. You spend your gauge and miss, you get hit and lose it.
Well with Harvest Moon the new gameplay style essentially is "never get hit" and is unbearable for anything outside of TA with infinited repeated attempts.
@@patxipatch well the issue is for example valstrax double ground stab when he is enraged the second you really learn what the monsters moveset is even if you miss a counter there are alot of ways to be able to avoid it. if you miss foresight slash you can serene pose or you can foresight slash into special sheath it just has MORE options than other weapons that were built around that playstyle like charge blade
Freedom 2 LS main here. Loved it even before it has its fancy counters. I can't comment about how should it be balanced compared to other weapons, and about how it stands in the community due to bias. But I think a big problem is the risks didn't scale with the rewards. If devs increased the risk (chip damage, gauge reduction, stamina consumption, massive sharpness loss), then it should make players give more thought about the trade-offs and hopefully raise the skill ceiling. Also it shouldn't alienate the current LS mains because it still carries its essence. Though I don't know how it will affect the pick rate because I think a challenging weapon is just as enticing as an easy one. But it shouldn't matter because players would be picking it up anyway for what it'll be. It's up to the devs on how they can make the rest keep up or have it all on the same page.
How to recognise an old-school Hunter... we share a similar opinion, we're usually civil and humble, and we don't just scream like a kid who lost in CoD lol. I started with MHF2, went back to MH, then played MHFU, MHP3rd, MH Tri, MH3/3U, MH4/4U, MHG/GU, MH World/Iceborne, MH Stories 2, MHRise/Sunbreak. We share exactly the same opinion on Longsword, it honestly just needs something to put its counter in a higher risk factor... right now there is 0 punishment for failing it, and it's a "get out of jail free" because of this.
@@mikedavies6979 i personally think that world did LS in a perfect way , with both counters rewarding you for hitting them but also punishing you for failing them
@@lucastolter6344 Oh really, and how exactly did it punish you in a significant way? By literally eating a metre that is ridiculously easy to build back up. That's not what I mean at all, a Counter is in itself a High Risk vs High Reward scenario. Else you could simply block or dodge, and because of that... Longsword's is simply not a true Counter, as it has no real risk if you should fail.
@@mikedavies6979 isnt the Main risk of a counter (instead of Just dodging or Pressing the Block Button )taking damage ? And yeah it is easy to build Up for someone with experience but for the Major Part ( based on my experience with random Players in rise/sunbreak ) Most people cant concistently build Up their Metre ( unless they rely on sacura Slash (still dont get why the buffed it ) Im Not saying its one of the hardest weapons but also Not one of the easiest , i would Put it around the middle Spot
@@lucastolter6344 You might place it near the middle, but few others do... also, I've never used Sakura Slash. It's not hard to build up the gauge. Of all the "Gauge" weapons Longsword is one of the Simplest. DBS balance with Stamina Use, SA with lowered Mobility, CB with 0 Mobility for optimal attacks... What does Longsword suffer? Absolutely NOTHING. Don't get me wrong... I'm in the same camp as you, but if you fail to understand why people get mad about LS, you're no better than they are. The only thing I think the Counter needs is to either inflict or increase recieved damage for the length of the animation if it should miss... that's all.
I think the weirdest part is that the game has potential for stuff like the holy trinity of MMO's (dps/supp/tank) YET they give the offensive weapons absolute capability to essentially tank on their own with no drawback. This makes stuff like lance and gunlance feel like second thoughts as they designed them to be tanky and survivable but have no damage at all.
they end up being less tanky since you can hit Foresight Slash after most inputs making going for a combo safe in LS while in Gunlance you cannot press Guard after any input making no combo safe. They do less damage *and* have less opportunities due to this
As a Gunlance main it baffles me that to this day we don't have a counter attack while Longsword had one 2 games ago. Even in Rise, and they were giving counter attacks out like candy.
I've always thought they should totally lean that direction with the weapons honestly. I mean sns and hh are easily already great support weapons. There's no true tank weapons in the game but they could easily turn lance or maybe even charge blade into tank weapons. I think that would also encourage co op and team coordination even more.
@@maultke5088our Guard Point SUCKS ASS in World. Wyrmstake follow up is still slower than x2 shelling and the guard only blocks one hit lol. You’re literally safer just sitting with block up.
They could easily make it so you can cap monsters without a trap, shoot without using ammo, ride a monster infinitely... Easy does not always mean Better, and I don't even need to flex my prestige as a Hunter to put the point across. If you're getting hit in a hunt with me then you're in the wrong place, and whilst I'm an exception to most LS users out of sheer level of experience... the point still stands, instead of bitching about it here... tell them there. I wouldn't be so mindful today were it not for the criticism I received early into my hunting career, back when flinch free was non-existent and hunters had to join the gathering hub to play group hunts... good times. I like SOS, but I feel it's part of the problem... players can just invite hunters for a hunt and likely never see them again, so critical feedback is largely ignored these days.
@@mikedavies6979 I'm wondering whether this was your reply to op's comment or was there a comment that was deleted that warranted the flex down memory lane. I feel like you stubbed your toe or your jacket got stuck on a doorknob this morning. I hope you start having nice days ahead of you my guy.
I'm loving your channel. I stopped playing Rise only a few weeks after release, I just wasn't feeling it. Then Sunbreak was announced and a ton of brand new content has also been added to the base game since I last played, that was enough to get me interested in the series again. It's so much easier to catch up on news when all of the information is one place. Thank you!
Despite longsword being advertised strongly, I actually seen light bowgun users lot more than longsword users in my games throughout my sunbreak experience.
Man do I wish I had your experience. I can count on one hand the number of quests I've done that did NOT have a longsword player. Unfortunately, I can't say that about Gunlance, Lance, or Hunting Horn...
@@nicolaswarren3453 Ironically 3 of my best weapons, the last of which being my main up until Rise... I prefer Dual Blades, as I've always had a soft spot for Poison Builds with them. However, I'm a top tier Lance and Gunlance user... and what I mean by "top tier" is that I am extremely aggressive whilst still being efficient... most Lancers tend to turtle up and lose interest before figuring out the trick to their mobility.
I've also been tripped and stunned by light bowgun users far fucking more than any Longsword player. To the point that they are specifically the reason I have flinch free. Honestly, since getting to Sunbreak I've seen exactly one longsword user and he was whatever. Not great, not terrible. Just an average player.
I'm a lance main too, I basically beaten the game up to afflicted quest just by using high rank armor and lance, and gunlance users are absolute menaces that even flinch free couldn't save me from them.
@@dyvawn Longsword flinch is avoidable, something I've mentioned across comments... but some weapons can flinch you through flinch free, why isn't anybody talking about those? Why aren't people complaining about how LBG has been a dominant and extremely OP Meta since World? Because it's not convenient to complain about the things they would use instead, being OP is okay when it suits them... but if not? They cry about it not being fair. Don't get me wrong... there are many reasonable and critical hunters in this comment section, but I'd say 67% are just idiots who like whining for attention... to be honest.
I’ve been playing LS pretty heavily since 3U and have been enjoying the pacing of the weapon, as a HH, GL, CB main I enjoy weapons that taken a more technical approach, and with how old LS needed a kind of dance with the monster to get the maximum out of the LS was fun and rewarding. Being able to just tank an attack and counter with crazy damage values and forgo the LS restrictions with the Wirebug mechanic with movement and even more counters is where the current hate comes from.
Honestly, as a long sword main since FU, I think LS changes are for the worse. I don't like how it became a weapon solely focused around counters. Before it used to be a very tactical weapon which rewarded knowledge of the monster and aggressive but calculated plays. I completely skipped world and picked up the LS with a mindset similar to how it used to be, trying to incorporate some of the new moves, with foresight feeling like just the right addition. But with how strong the counter playstyle is in rise with the LS, I ended up being more successful just focusing on parrying than by playing aggressive with fade slash. And honestly, I don't like it, it's not like the weapon I previously loved. It's sure is flashy and powerful, but it's not what I'm after. I think counters shouldn't exist in MH, or atleast be very scarce and be more akin to GS tackle or CB guard points.
I'm a LS player, but i love to play with Glaive, GS, Gunlance and CB too. I play MH since MH1 and i started LS in MH2 when it was created. I like counter, but i prefer how it was in MHW, the best MH for me.
I picked up LS in rise because im a sucker for the Iaijutsu qucikdraw and countering Aesthetic (Vergil's Dark Guard in DMC is a good example) is very pleasing to me.. I'm kinda sad now they nerfed it in to the ground
I think there should be consequences to the counter, like if you time it wrong then you take increased Damage (similar to Brave/Valor Style in GU) or lose all of your Stamina combined with a tighter window for success. That's all it really needs to be tactical again, as it makes the counter a risk with a high pay-off through good play... and less of a crutch with zero issues for failing.
"It's super skillful" but it's not. It can have the highest skill cap in existence, that doesn't matter if it's so overloaded you don't need to use a quarter of it's potential to out preform every other weapon. On something like the greatsword, you need to surpass a skill floor to start succeeding, with the long sword you can just pick up and start dominating at every skill bracket.
Edited and still can't notice "perform" is spelled wrong... coming off a comment that is true, but extremely narrow-minded... If you have a learning disorder, this isn't meant to ridicule... simply pointing out the danger of stereotyping, since you appear to be an idiot. However, I do not believe you actually are an idiot... being bad at spelling isn't something which defines a person, not to me. Note: I was raised to spell Edited with 2 "T" in it... I understand it's just 1 now, but still a bad habit where I use 2 every now and then.
greatsword is easy asfk lol i main hammer and gs. gs now is just land your strong arm stance counter then slap the monster for 2500+ damage. repeat 8 times monsters dead.
@@sebastiangalger8800 Being up at 4am does weird shit to your mind... so, I'm not really sure why I made that comment. Perhaps it was a back-handed way of saying you shouldn't believe every stereotype you hear... but, I honestly couldn't tell you lol.
Yes the gauge dmg was nerfed but it recieved even more flashy and op moves that push the counter playstyle which literally has better defensive utility than lance and gunlance. Its not just about raw dmg but the quality of the moveset available and lance got shafted HARD there thats why people are upset
@@choty7066 Harvest moon is useless in multiplayer and makes quick sheath useless for quick item usage now. 50% dmg reduction on Iai Slash and more nerfs in helmbreaker. Counters are not learned in “minutes” as the dude said in the video. It’s a hard skill that only the few pro players can master and you need to learn each monster timing for that so you will loose HP and dps when failing those (and you will). Long sword and bow were nerfed heavily and other weapons got buffed. Instead of asking for more nerfs for a weapon you don’t mind just ask for buffs in the weapons you do mind. That’s what the devs should have done from the beginning in but instead they decided this and even forgot to make better moves for weapons such as the lance.
@@vrsaommo8193 to successfully counter a monster you need to know its moveset. And you can play any weapon you want to learn it not just long sword. You just get much more reward from learning the same thing on LS than any other weapon. I tried LS after almost finishing the game and countering felt quite easy. Much easyer than in world where you were actually punished for timing it wrong. And its not that im complaining because some hunters have it easy by picking a weapon with such a high skill floor, its because other weapons are shafted since so much of the devs' focus is on the LS
@@vrsaommo8193 they are learned in minutes dude, ive seen it happen mid quest, iai counter is the only exeption to that rule, although, yeah, it was brought to level with most weapons, lance is in the same place tho.
The iai counter is what made me play less with LS because of that small window timing. I watch other LS speed runner video clips and felt like my sword is being dragged through the mud.
So it sounds like the fix (if you want to keep the cinematic moves) would be about a 20% decrease in damage (or tie damage more closely to spirit gauge), and about a 40% decrease in i-frames, so it feels like the damage is the reward for being good at "the dance". Not just for picking up the weapon.
The only legitimate complaint about about LS I've ever heard is that it's shown too much favoritism. Do I need 6 counters? No but I'm glad to have the option if LS is going to be the "counter" weapon. In World I spent days learning each weapon to figure out what my main should be and it actually hurts that there are weapons literally left in the dirt while others have well tuned kits that make them feel like they never evolved from there early kits.
@@MatthewCJoy I mean I won't defend the players who are a nuisance to their party but why is it so bad to have a couple weapons that are better at solo play? The game might be intended for multi-player hunts but people love to solo hard games so of course there are gonna be weapons that have a strong soloing kit. However I've been using the LS in co-op for years now and I'd say the more annoying weapon is bow users with tunnel vision
I don't even think LS needs to be changed in the next installment, they should just leave it as is, and focus on bringing other weapons up to it's level.
@@The_Big_Jay yes. Please give other weapons even half as much love as LS has been shown. I'm more than happy to have zero LS additions for the next couple games
My problem with this weapon is that it’s too easy to use. The dmg and counter capabilities are way higher than the lance. Why should a long sword be able to counter and be more defensive than a lance and shield? It literally makes no sense and lance users have been getting nothing for years.
Too easy to use? That's not on ls, ls is far harder to get value out of then Lance and most other weapons tbh. The ease of use argument applies to many MANY weapons. Majority of them are extremely easy straight up. Longsword us easily on the more difficult end of weapons and I implore you to tell me what weapons are harder then ls save for cb
@@renutus1580 literally almost every other weapon is harder than LS. LS is literally the safest choice in mh. literally has all the Iframes and counters to survive anything. the weapon is overloaded with safe mechanics. I could probably pick up a LS and perform better than any other weapon.
@@josezeroninja Lmao, you're talking as if every new player is gonna know how to use any of it's counters effectively and not just get hit everytime. Sword and shield and duel blades are both way easier weapons than long sword is. Hell, the only weapons I'd consider harder than LS, is probably GS, SA, and MAYBE CB.
As a hammer main, my main problem with LS is that I keep flinching which it makes me miss great opportunites to KO the monster or prevents me from doing huge damage combos while the monster is down.
When I play online in "Sunbreak", longsword users tend to cart more than other weapons. I attribute that to bad counter timing, and master rank is less forgiving.
That's the same for basically every counter-reliant move, because teammates drawing aggro often means monster behave erratically. LS is just almost entirely reliant on it. (even switchaxe has better defensive moves beside counter) A less timing-reliant moveset of the buffed sakura slash + sacred sheath would have helped, but people are not ready to give up the main crutch (the nerfed helmsplitter and iai counter)
I doubt you'll ever see me cart period... this isn't ego nor is it bragging, it's simply me speaking as a Gen 1 Hunter. We don't play by the same rules as most... I don't need a massive OP damage set to be a force of nature, it honestly doesn't do much aside from making you fragile and unreliable. Neither of which particularly suit how I play, neither is it creative nor fun to just copy what everybody else uses. I tend to focus more defensively... building towards minimising my damage recieved and maximising my "Up-Time" (The amount of time I spend dealing damage instead of healing, etc.) as I can do a lot more damage by simply allowing myself to stay in the fight, far more than being a Glass Cannon will grant me. It's a Lancer's Mentality, and while I technically main all 14 weapons... I defer to Lance in Rise specifically.
@@mikedavies6979 I was going to say something but then I saw what weapon you main and yeah you right. Lance best weapon. (This post was made by The Charge Blade Gang)
It is absolutely the kit that makes the ls a problem, watching a weapon get 6 different counters as well as a move that buffs them is aggravating when gs or swaxe just got one now in sunbreak, it is the Swiss army knife if weapons and makes no effort to hide it, serene pose can out damage great sword hits, it has more mobility than dual blades, it's better at defending than the Lance, and doesn't need to worry about bouncing like gunlance. The spirit gage is a joke at this point, in older games you had to build meter, execute the combo and then do it again 2 more times to get to red witch is a 20% damage increase! It's still the same modifier, but you just gotta counter 3 attacks to get there now, it takes less than a minute to do. In online it's a cutting weapon so it should target the tail, but no long sword player ever does, and why should they when they are better at every other weapons job? Tripping is less of an issue for the other weapons because in general terms it just happens less, "oh well just build in flinch free so then I can't trip you with my long sword" yeah, it's easy to say, but ls doesn't have to do that for other weapons, infact it doesn't have to worry about tripping at all, it gets it for free at spirit gage level 1. Yes it has a ridiculously high skill ceiling, but the reality is that the skill floor is practically as high as other weapons skill ceilings.
The only problem I have is when I do end up breaking all the parts. Where do I go for max damage now? It's the head, now at that point in the hunt, the monster has like 20% health left. Now what IS TRULY ANNOYING IS AS A HH MAIN IS LBG AND HBG ALONG WITH BOW USERS SHOOTING THE HEAD CONSTANTLY AND STAGGERING ME MORE THEN ANY OTHER WEAPON LIKE FUCK
@@Sangheilitat117 I think he meant in terms of repositioning. LS has the Fade Slash, Foresight Slash, the one hit from the second Spirit combo you unlock, Sakura Slash to a certain extent, the new Sacred Sheath allows you to dodge while charging the strongest part of the attack, letting you easily reposition. At least I think that's what he means.
yes long sword is powerful but if we compare iceborne LS to rise, i will say that takes more practice to use Iceborne LS, the s are less and you are punish for failing. iai slash required a better timing and sometimes you will receibe damage since the s were not that great, and if you failed you will lose gauge, also you will not gain gauge upon success unlike rise. heck even foresight in world was harder to pull at the begining , only after a patch became easier to use.
less s? foresight in world has 40 frames of invinsability while in rise is 20, how is that more? also, roll s in rise ingeneral is tighter than the previous mh games. proof? you can check the wiki for mh and, or, check rainy's(mh speedrunner) old twit about roll frames in rise
@@LimeNoKi While I don't doubt you, the window on Foresight Slash in Rise feels way more generous to me than it did in World, so I can see why OP thinks that.
@@Malakith it already has been tested, the window is the same just the last longer in world by twice the amount in rise. try foresighting b52 in rise when he does the ground pound,(when enrage) you'll still get hit by the bombs, but the knockback is negated. in world, you'll completely dodge including the bombs, so it is more forgiving
The hate for longsword stems way before world. The memes that longsword users can't tell a head from a tail and that they constantly hit their allies comes all the way from freedom unite eras. Longsword users were notoriously bad at playing with teams as they completely disregarded positioning and the spirit slash hits so wide that they would always hit others. Don't even get me started with the poor hammer mains that were at the monsters head constantly being flinched by the confused longsword user that doesn't know what a tail looks like
I loved the longsword in 4u, even if I mained dual blades most of the time. It wasn't ever problematic in multiplayer, but it might have been the fact that the two friends I played with were smart enough to let me go for the tail while they whacked whatever it was we were hunting in the face or used their consumables. With randos online it's an evil weapon that everyone hates. In a coordinated group, we found it to be pretty effective
I think things especially need to be balanced in pve because diversity keep player retention. Who will want to pick up lance when the long sword does it better kinda thing. So instead of them learning the lance because they saw something cool once they pick it up they are gonna notice their times take a lot longer and more often then not drop it. So if things where to be balanced there would be a very high retention rate because people could try out all the weapons without worrying if a hunt is now going to be 3 min longer because of it.
At this rate I stick to using IG when playing multiplayer because 1) It’s my fallback weapon on monsters that I’m facing off against for the first time. 2) You get flinch free and earplugs for free, which in this day and age is very useful because of how many LS I see. I get so annoyed because I want to be able to use something like hammer or gunlance because they are fun to play. But when I down a monster with the hammer I’m not able to do the head combo because I keep getting tripped by LS users who seem to refuse to focus on the tail. It just feels frustrating that people should have to waste a precious decoration slot because other people can’t position for shit.
"It just feels frustrating that people should have to waste a precious decoration slot because other people can’t position for shit." You mean because people aren't positioning where YOU want them to. Head usually has better hit values than tail, so why should anyone have to hit tails?
@@zanido9073 I don't know? Maybe it's to break parts for more rewards? Look I'm not even remotely close of getting angry towards LS players because I use GS amd we can't be tripped while we are in the middle of charging attacks so we don't give a fuck towards LS's fast wide swings, but if we blades don't attack tails until its cut, we are in the wrong. After we blades cut tails, we can go for whatever position we want. During that time, blunts have already stunned the monster at least once so they won't really care about you interrupting them from hitting the monsters face. Remember, unless you are playing solo, MH is a COOPERATIVE game. So yes, we have positions that we prioritze to go to. Look, if you really care about soft spots in the Monsters body, play solo without buddies (palicos and palamutes), or play with friends. I'm telling you this because you have more control over the monsters movement. This is how most speedrunners in MH play because controlling the monster is so important to them. One of the reason why they have faster hunts is this.
@@zanido9073 This guy trippin. Cutting weapons can cut tails. Cutting the tail gives an extra drop and makes a lot of fights easier. Cutting tails for monsters like Rathalos/Rathian makes the attack have shorter range and don't apply poision anymore. Cutting the tail for Diablos makes the fight so much easier.
@@zanido9073 Players shouldn't have to change their build to make up for a shittier player's refusal to work with the team. no one will trip if the LS user plays for the team instead of against them.
As a LS main (I only got 100ish Hours in FU and 65h in rise rn) i just feel bad after reading those comments. I really tried out every weapon like great swords hammers etc. But the longsword felt the most fun for me in both games, and i just like the gauge system of the weapon. Now i just feel like every lobby i join thinks im a bad spoiled noob :(
The comparison between LS and the ranged weapons is always somewhat weird imo. The ranged weapons have a critical range to be most effective in, trade defense for offense, require a bunch of high level skills to make their ammo more efficient and obviously the ammo itself. LS on the other hand gets to spam its counters for almost the entire duration of the hunt for the low low price of Quick Sheath lvl 3. No guard skills required like shield weapons, no evade window to increase I-frames.
Yeah it's freaking stupid. They're not alike at all. The thing they have in common is they're good weapons. The difference is one has a low skill ceiling and the other doesn't. Idk how he could say that LS has a high skill ceiling lol.
LS has been one of the weapons on my "tool kit" but I never considered myself a LS main, I'm more of a CB/GL main. That said, LS in Sunbreak is just ridiculously fun. I've been strictly using the Sacred Sheath parry and Sakura Slash to level up the gauge and cash out with the SS combo. It feels a lot more "involved" than just spamming helm splitter and a lot more rewarding because it's easier to miss but when it hits the big number and the constant part break/tail cut/flinch is just on another level. But I do agree that the weapon can do it all. I would at least remove the Foresight Slash because paired with Sacred Sheath Parry, Sakura Slash AND the silkbind skill counter that levels up gauge, is a bit too much. Not that I use it that often, I think LS has a lot of moves and skills that serve the same purpose but there are moments where the Foresight Slash is a get out of jail free card and it's the only moment LS feels cheap in Sunbreak IMO, which is a game where most weapons are through the roof. I also think there's no need for the Sacred Sheath Stance to give you an auto parry or it should at least punish you harder for relying on it, like reducing to no gauge.
The issue with it (specifically in base rise) doesn't take much to get it going (overall skill and build wise) in base rise, all you need is full valstrax armour and chameleos long sword. Literally the build is almost done or outright is done, maybe some decos here and there. For how easy it is to build a GL build, it isn't as easy as a LS build to be made. As well the over all cost for LS builds are hilariously cheap compared to other builds (CB, HBG and LBG to name a few) even though ranged weapons are very OP, it takes quite a bit for them to get there. With LS, it takes very minimal set up for it to be extremely good. And the whole flinch free thing, I think I can vouch for everyone when I say: I'm not gonna lower my own DPS just because your ass (not you specifically but mainly LS mains) can't be mindful of other players when you're flailing your sword around like an overweight Otaku screeching "REE!" At the top of your lungs. I don't hate LS (one of 3 main weapons I used in world) but I'm not gonna sit here and adamantly defend it either.
No lie, you have to put in a lot of work to become a parry god that doesn't take damage. It has an insane skill gap for most players. Its a rewarding playstyle. As someone who played the souls series first it was always the most appealing
every other weapon should get massive buffs to bring it up to where LS is. every weapon should feel insanely good in it's own way, one also shouldn't be untouchable without some type of CD or massive skill involved.
I feel like there should be some weapons that can become untouchable without CD or massive skill. They're called Lance, Gunlance, and Charge Blade. Maybe SwSh. Because they HAVE SHIELDS. Hell, they are why I love the addition of Stinkminks so much. I can finally draw aggro and BE A PROPER TANK
@@Xios_Angelis they get touched and they take chip damage. only exceptions are perfect guards but that doesn't work against everything (not all those weapons have it either) and the timing falls into the high skill area. also there is a limit to how much you can guard, depending on how big the attack was and how much stamina you have. i mean you can be pretty tanky, heck even HBG with shield mod can be quite tanky but you still take chip damage and get pushed around/stopped when hit. my comment is more directed towards LS where they can not only defend (without taking any damage) but also attack at the exact same time. that and the timing isn't really that hard either.
@@Xios_Angelis true but that is a investment, one that takes away from damage or other skills you might want. that's what makes it okay and LS not okay. if LS had to invest into it, to make it good then that would be fine imo.
I'd argue the current identity of the long sword being the parry god started before World. Remember Valor LS in XX? I felt invincible using the parry using the first Spirit Slash and mainly used it to cheese monsters together with the parry hunter art (forgot the name tho).
Reading through these comments has been wild… Why do so many people give a singular shit about a weapon being fun? Why does that in any way affect your enjoyment of other weapons? This isn’t a competitive game… balance does not matter nearly as much. Also, people malding over it being default Lmao. Heaven forbid a development team makes a stylistic choice in a game that is, also for the first time, centered in their own country’s mythos. Jfc.
I don’t mind longsword being stronger than other weapons, however I feel that it’s a bit unfair how much preferential treatment longsword is getting in comparison to weapons like lance and light bowgun
@@MrMatratze5005 Depends on the setup. I used to be a spread main in MHW. In Sunbreak now I am using a normal ammo build end game and my hunts are barely less than 30 min.
to be entirely honest the damage discrepancy with longsword's kit in reference to risk/reward is only really present in minmaxed builds LS is an overtuned weapon but it is not nearly as overtuned as HBG and Bow favoritism is definitely an issue but at the same time I feel the popularity of the weapon in current gen is because of how interactive it is, counter attacking always *feels* good because of it feeling like a genuine response to an attack, by comparison simply not being close to a monster to avoid being at risk feels stale it's similar to parrying in dark souls compared to walking away from the same attack, and i'd argue that LS counters are similar in difficulty as well I'd say the only real change LS needs is to make iai slash have a resource cost of some type (i.e stamina or requiring spirit to initiate) and remove combo links from foresight to iai and vice versa to make counters less spammable, increasing the difficulty in landing one
Nobody complains about gunner because you ought to get a specific build with a specific gun, with certain crucial skills to make them work and also you need to source certain ammo types and ammo materials, set specific item loadouts, etc... Gunner is more damage, but it takes investment in making it work, meanwhile, longsword go brr. maybe get some crit skills and handicraft and nothing much else needed.
Its the whole package. LS players not only get the best offensive and defensive moveset, they also have among the fastest movement and generally quick handling.
I just don't want whoever worked on Rise to work on the next mainline game. They shafted alot of weapons or removed mechanics to jutify or reintroduce them into wirebug mechanics.
Longsword was fine for the most part until rise, in world it has the lowest recovery longest distance roll for example but it's not like it was top of the line weapon, mid tier clear times. In GU it was very hard to parry with the low amount of frames. It's just too easy to parry with it and you can perma chain all parries in rise for the damage it does. I use longsword when I don't want to try positioning because it doesn't really matter where I hit as long as I never get hit since the clear time will only be slightly slower than if I were to use a normal melee weapon with good positioning. Not sure what changed in sunbreak haven't played it yet.
current LS: buffed a bit sakura slash, nerfed damages when in red and yellow gauge, nerfed helmbreaker wire bug recovery and reduced iai counter damages by 50%, fortunetly we got sacred sheathe that do a lot of damage to compensate and a new silkbind move which is also a faster parry cause now Master Rank monster are fast as F
In iceborne the iai slash felt like it needed to be done frame perfect to work which was great it rewarded actually knowing when a monsters attack would hit or knowing the stun frames of roars. In rise it feels like you can do it a full second after taking a hit and still get out fine it took away all challenge from the skill it looks way less cool in rise too.
@@Lunk42 ISS in Iceborne is that one move you do when you knew the timing for a *specific* move from every monster, down to its timing and positioning. Few examples I could think of are Glavenus spinning slash, Brute Tirgrex stomping roar after his usual charge, or Teostra stomp and spin. My problem with ISS in rise is how its usage is overlap with both foresight slash AND spirit combo, making the latter ultimately obsolete, more so now with silkbind sakura slash.
Honestly the things that piss me the most off about LS mains is they act like they’re the only players in a hunt and just do not care about the three other sentient humans alongside them, they seem to actively the avoid the tail (the area they should go first), and they always try and prioritize looking flashy and cool over actually doing anything to contribute. It’s not just that it’s an unbalanced and over-favorited weapon, it attracts some of the biggest, most selfish egos in what’s supposed to be a co-op game.
MANY LS players I’ve come across are total dumbasses and throw caution to the wind. They have too much confidence in themselves and charge into a monster they’ve never fought before, and more likely than not, find out what dirt tastes like. Hell, when I’m farming for rare drops online, and I join a hunt with a LS main who’s host, I can almost guarantee they’ll cart at least once. Bonus points if they’re still running Valstrax and getting one-tapped by Master Rank monsters.
As the only Gunlance main left on the planet, I used the longsword once for a reason. To see how annoying it was to hit your teammates rather than than them hitting you. It is annoying and I find hitting people with my Wyvernfire funnier and at times somewhat helpful.
As a hammer main, nothing is more irritating than me trying to skull-bash a monster, but instead, I'm getting slapped by a long sword. Some seem to think their tiny extra bump in damage to the skull is better than me actually keeping the monster stun-locked in place for everyone to keep attacking. It's sooo frustrating. But of course, I've got love for the LS users who chop tails and practice their social distancing while swinging~ lol
realistically, its the flinching flinching other players is fine because it wont happen that much untill you have a melee weapon with huge wide and long attacks.Ideally this increases the skill ceiling and makes positioning yourself important, but the problem comes in because flinching doesnt punish the LS user it punishes the other players which means that they never learn from their mistakes and just continue on like nothing happened. You then give new players the LS at the start and you Buff it so its easy and good solo then most new players are going to go in to multiplayer lobbys with it and start tripping everyone because they dont know any better and piss everyone else off its a perfect microcosm for making a most hated weapon.
The flinch issue can be more than the 'just 1 more pt on flinchfree'. As someone mostly play SnS/HBG/lance that play with a buddy (DB/LS user) regulary, my biggest grudge with LS is that if I got hit in the shield, the outcome can be worse than got hit. LS can tag your shield and quickly move out of the place, whereas the one have shield would be lock in place for a fraction of second, that is enough to force you to tank an monster attack you could have roll out of its way. I ditched shield on my HBGs mostly because of this. Or in IB I use guard→backhop to initiate PR, a hit to the shield would stop the transition to backhop, then I need to start over. SnS have other options you might say, but in my experience, attack/roll→backhop just a bit too slow to land the max punish on downed monster (Say master rank KT, you can pull off PR 1&2→roll/backhop→full PR, and the final hit of the 2nd PR set would latch onto KT's head right at when it gets up, which can lead to a part break or stagger, that short of a time difference between initiate from attack or guard can throw off the final hit) I play counter lance most of my time with lance, and I have countless times that my buddy hit my shield, that hit stun stop the transform to power guard, trigger my counter early and let me caught by monster attack. this is not like normal flinch, you can't mitigate with flinchfree. To be fair any weapon can do this, but LS is the worst offender here for 1, its popularity; 2, range/width of moves that they have to do to maintain their gauges; 3, the mobility. It's like, they did nothing wrong, you did nothing wrong, and still you're the only one get punished because of this.
That's not an issue with ls, that's an issue with the game design. Makes no sense that you can block allies attacks (also makes no sense that you can flinch allies to begin with)
The thing about the favoritism, for me, is that it isn't just MH and it has really burned me out on katanas, which I used to love. Dark Souls 2 and 3, Elden Ring, even Final Fantasy XI back in the day all had this issue: Japanese developers would show clear bias towards katanas and ignore weapons and classes that were truly struggling. Back to FFXI, the Dragoon class was left to languish for YEARS, to the point that the class itself became a joke in the community. People actually laughed at you if you played it. Meanwhile, Samurai would just receive buff after buff despite being the most consistent damage dealer in both endgame and exp point parties. I don't think I need to explain DkS 2/3/Elden Ring since so many people already have a clear understanding of those. It's been a constant with Japanese developers and it's frustrating. I don't mind the weapons being good, but weaker weapons being completely ignored shows that devs often are either out of touch or don't care.
I think the real controversy started because new players who mained LS refused to comply with hunter etiquette. For those who don't know, the classic games had unwritten rules in multiplayer where you were supposed to attack where your weapon did the most part damage. LS, DB, and SnS attack tails, Hammers and HHs attack the head. However, for all the reasons you said in your video, LS did higher DPS at the head so new players kept aiming for the head to the detriment of blunt weapon users. I can't provide evidence because I left years ago but I started seeing hammer mains complaining about this in Facebook groups and LS trolls started bullying Hammers. It started to make this mentality rhat LS mains were entitled assholes who demanded everyone accommodate to them like a toxic friend who gets a hissy fit when it doesn't go their way. Everything you said in your video is true without a doubt but I think the controversy truly started because new players who didn't understand the classic players culture tried to brute force their way in and expected older players to just accept it; and the rest is history.
They adapted but at the end of the day everyone else has to play around the LS user. While everyone else has to equip flinch free, they don't have to, they're not getting flinched. They don't give don't care.
No one respects that anymore. Everyone goes for the head. SnS even does stun now. I play hammer as well as longsword, and I get tripped the most by ranged weapons.
i've started playing this game for about 4 months now, been playing with a friend as LS. It became apperent quite quickly that i was interrupting him a lot, i was new ofcourse..but i felt that it was my responsibility to work around this obvious drawback. Ever since, i try going for the tail first and stay out of the way of others.It is not that hard really and i know how frustrating it can be if your charge is wasted.
So I never knew about this etiquette though I have just started playing multi-player so assuming that it applies to Rise is there any form of etiquette for insect glaive? I don't want to bother anyone while playing
@@curlyfrize7675 speaking only for myself, I am unaware of any particular issues with IG, aside from aim for the tail if you can. Aside from that, I encourage you to ask other glaive mains
Not only does it interrupt other hunters doing combos in a huge melee area, it can parry and counter. Sure it requires a lot of skill, but should it really be a weapon that is good at everything and bad at nothing, when every other weapon has a tradeoff and fills a specific niche?
LS is overpowered to a degree where it outclasses every other weapon at this point, and where other weapons fall back and deserve getting additions the LS gets more of them. then you have newbie players that spam it and don't play to the strengths of the team and go for anywhere BUT the tail in hunts and interrupt the other player's attacks, thus ruining the hunt and making it take longer and making it harder to damage the beast in question.
I feel like it's kind of dumb to say: "LS isn't OP, ranged weapons are OP. It's in the top 5 with them, in fact it's number 4, the best melee weapon." Plus, a lot of the weapons you mentioned don't flinch players as often as LS does.
@@socialrhombus3288 Because having to equip decos cause other players refuse to position is dumb, even more so when LS has flinch free BUILT into its moves for free, so now the guy tripping you can't be tripped by basic attacks themselves while not needing flinch free.
@@socialrhombus3288 Fill up the gauge and use spirit sword moves, outside of the swax alternate discharge which blows away everyone you get FF during the moves.
For me the most annoying part is not only that LS is obscenely overpowered now, it’s also stolen the niche of the existing counter weapon by being vastly better in every way. It’s even worse now that practically every weapon has some kind of counter thanks to silkbinds. Personally I don’t like the way the devs are homogenising specific weapon abilities like stun, counters etc because it stops each individual weapon from being unique and interesting. If every weapon could KO monsters, counter, cut tails etc, they’d all feel samey and boring.
"stops every weapon from being unique and interesting" ... I'm just going to say that's bullshit and move on. I could break down in tantalizing detail why that is, but I'd rather not advocate being an asshole unless I absolutely must.
@@xMogek I don't really notice a difference besides it being one or the other in Rise, as World had both the Spinning Saw and the Sword Charge abilities at once.
I'm naturally competitive and I like to compare myself to others, my main hunting buddy has a damage meter so I usually ask about it. Longsword players outperform us with what seems like such a low barrier that I feel like my achievement is invalidated because they have an easier ticket to the same endgoal. It makes me not even want to hunt with Longsword players, or that someone in the hard endgame gear got it with less skill than would be needed normally.
...Huh... That's not a bad idea. Anytime a LS user pops into your group/lobby, insta-kick 'em. Or refuse to hunt with them. If they ask why, simply state "Longsword".
@@MrJinglejanglejingle which is still toxic as hell. It’s one thing to refuse a follow up hunt because some asshat keeps tripping you, it’s another to refuse a hunt/kick people because of someone’s weapon type. Even if it is a crutch weapon what’s that got to do with anything? Is the hunt slower because someone uses a good weapon/gear? Normally when fellow hunters underperform in the damage department *thats* the problem. A Hunter that performs well? God forbid it’s ruinin the hunt!(/s)
@@opbattleaxe8744 Its amusing that you think you'll change my mind on this. I already didn't like the Longsword in early World, due to how simplistic, yet powerful, it was. Nowadays, its even better. I'm not going to let those that rely on a crutch into my hunts until they learn to actually play the game, rather than relying on what amounts to a free win.
It's not only favoritism it's the fact that the long sword takes away the identity of alot of weapons, expecially when it had its own identity but the worst part is it gives up nothing to get the best version of what other weapons has, as well as the weapon having no weakness means its just the default best pick why play half the weapons in the game when there's longsword
Long sword in pub games 100% the reason why I have to have a brace jewel. It's like "hi I'm the one guy who should 100% be on the head as I use a stun support weapon" Every ls user in pub games "and I took that personally"
Funny how this didn't age well The LS's dps is on the ground, CB, GS and SA are over the roof and the ranged weapons are officially easy mode on sunbreak now
I don’t mind most long sword players as long as they’re good and understand positioning but with so many people using it because it’s popular and strength. You get saturated with players that don’t understand positioning.
Oh I've used it back in World. I always try to target the tail first (though some monsters make it difficult, looking at you Royal Ludroth). Weeks before Sunbreak released, I crafted dual blades and though I went back to longsword, I plan to eventually spice things up with the greatsword once I feel ready
I think a large issue is also having no real reason to join lobbies in rise or world unless you want to play with specific people. If you can just join a quest you need to complete and then immediately leave, then you don't actually have to suffer the consequences of your longswording actively interfering with the rest of the hunting party's attacks. Back in 4U we used to just kick Longsword players if they weren't mindful of their positioning.
I've been playing Sunbreak and if anything adding so many moves to long sword kind of detracts from the flow. I know you don't have to use all the switch skills, but they are there and a part of your brain wants to use them even if they're not optimal. The feel and animations of Iceborne were my favourite, but I can see why people considered it over-tuned even back then.
well peppo agrees with that for him being a speedrunner he felt that he is forced to use all the styles and isn't really like it but may in time grow to. I for one can't stand it to be honest. it should have been like in GU with the multitude of different style
Lot of whinging in the comments but it won't change my stance. LS despite peoples' salt, is my favourite class to play alongside SnS and DB. I just like constantly being up close and engaged with little to no downtimes. It's not my fault other LS players are new to the game and trip you up; even I use flinch free as a LS main because of those players. LS players trip other LS players too, it's not like we aren't also annoyed by it, not to mention it's not just LS players who decide to focus on the exact part of the monster you're focusing on (e.g someone literally coming up on the tail while you're midcombo whilst they should be focusing on the head for their damage type) or using AOE attacks that stagger everyone in the vicinity (I'm looking at you bow users, GS and Hammer users) Additionally I think a lot of LS players are just in over their heads when it comes to their skill level. So many carts from even decent players who otherwise perform well, because they build for DPS and try to be flashy with failed counters too often. Personally I use a comfort build and play safe, and try to keep out of peoples' way- although trying to keep out of peoples' way doesn't help when people literally just insist in being in your way. My friends were bad for this, constantly just running in my way while I'm animation locked midcombo and then crying about being tripped. So I just told them all to put flinch free in their builds and stfu. I have flinch free because they often trip me too because they have zero spatial awareness and consideration. As a LS user I use vertical attacks and fade slashes to prevent tripping and move myself away from other players/shift myself behind the monster's legs, etc, but my friends would constantly run up on me when I start a spirit combo.
I’m an Insect Glaive main. And while it’s not a bad weapon per se, it’s just such a consistent damage type weapon. There aren’t really any attacks that scream “hell yeah I hit that” Like the phial burst or whatever with charge blade. When you hit that, you feel so good. I wish every weapon had something like that. I’ve been using Charge Blade more often because the loop of it is so good and it makes you feel so OP. I hope someday Insect Glaive gets that same treatment.
The Wyvern Dive (or whatever it was called in World) felt that way in spades. Made you feel like a badass dragoon coming out of nowhere to deal massive damage to a monster. The new stuff just doesn’t feel that same way, but I still love IG for letting me defy gravity.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
I've wanted to try writing an essay for a long while now. Please tell me how you feel about it.
Any feedback is welcome and appreciated 😌
The only reason why people think the longsword is OP is because it is comparable in power to the ranged weapons. This is in large part due to " less physical damage " and " more physical damage taken " difference between ranged and not ranged. Gunners/bows have to be constantly terrified of huge swathes of their health being removed by attacks on the low end of power, compared to physical weapons at least. ( I'm pretty sure it got removed in rise, which is another problem within itself)
Edit - man I've no clue what the goose I was on about with this comment this shit is the silliest thing that successfully made me sound so much like the nerd emoji
It was a good essay, as a charge blade main I do not agree with most of this, the changes to the long swords makes the challenge trivial and I like flinching because it forces more teamwork then most games, MH rise is having a power creep issue and that is because these weapons are getting too strong and the monsters getting stronger doesn’t fix the problem, monster Hunter gets its identity from being somewhat grounded, the long sword is starting to lose that grounding, yes that’s coming from the guy who mains the weapon that charges from kinetic energy and then discharges it, but as you can see I can have a logical reason for how the weapon could work even if it’s not 100% correct, I wouldn’t be upset if the next monster Hunter game takes some steps backwards and forks off in a different direction, new weapons, the return of water battles (if made to actually be fun) or the return of seasons and the day night cycle meaning something, but the long swords was a meme problem before and is an actual problem now
I don't see any problem playing with Long Sword players except that they rarely focus on the tail first and they go straight to the head. Flinch free decoration make life easier with LS players. Also some LS players are aggressive meaning they will spirit combo even if the monster is falling asleep.
I mainly use the Sword and Shield. I already faced many harsh criticisms from the elitists of the community.
I prefer versatility and options over pure mindless bonk.
That is why I am glad Sunbreak gave me options to use not just the shield but also utilize the elements and status of the SnS. I feel so powerful using that weapon than anything else.
Though I do see the enjoyment of them giving other weapons a chance to shine
The only real criticism for LS is the fast and wide swings which trip up fellow hunters. Pretty much all other complaints seems like jealousy bias. Each weapon has its own playstyle and so long as devs make each weapon enjoyable I have no problem if a weapon becomes a bit better than others. In the next game the systems introduced could just as easily make another weapon "OP". Also complaining about kill times feels silly because that really only affects like the top 0.1% of players who do speed runs.
In short anyone who doesn't like a certain weapon stop complaining like a jealous baby and find enjoyment in another weapon.
I got hit with sleep on a hunt once, a long sword user desperately wanted to help me but I had flinch free on lol
Now that's some funny ass irony
@@XASPrime I didn't even know it would stop the wake up. Have mercy.
oof xD
I always feel so bad that I can’t help but it makes sense
Your palamute or palico can still wake you, even if you have flinch free 3, as I can attest, being a db main.
Me being a lance main getting confused how weapons like LS can parry with not a single scratch while I have to haul a giant ass shield and still getting my health chipped away while blocking.
As a CB main... I feel you...
Watch that guy from World use it. He danced around the parry and moved.
Because you can literally hold your shield with no strict timing requirement. Theres no such thing as blocking too early and getting punished. Longsword has to i-frame the attacks, and if they do it too early they are left wide open. They literally have to wait until the last few frames before they get hit. It's called risk/reward. Lance is low risk, therefore low reward. Longsword is high risk, high reward. If you could block every attack without losing any health or stamina, it would make the harder dodging/countering playstyles irrelevant. You could just hold block forever.
Realistically, getting your health chipped doesn't matter. You can just eat super recovery dango level 4, and your health will be constantly regenerating the entire hunt.
@@PhilMihaly Charge blade's guard points still deal damage and they are parries, not normal blocks
Overall I think it’s pretty stupid that not only do you have to heavily invest in skills, your shield is also just as strong as 2 other weapons. Why not change that instead of making the hunting horn a mashy slapstick?
The Rise Longsword favoritism wasn't just receiving it as a gift for completing the village quests. Rise is the only Monster Hunter game in history to make your DEFAULT starting weapon a Longsword instead of the Sword and Shield. They don't just nudge you towards playing it; they quite literally put a Longsword in your hands and tell you to use it.
I find it funny how many people are making crazy assumptions about my character and trying to dunk on me for internet cool kid points when basically all I've said is "Yeah, Rise has longsword favoritism, I think the SnS was better."
And yet i immediately ditched it and went back to my true love…SnS ♥️
But with that same argument, forcing a SnS in players hands, when the game’s theme surrounds ninjas and samurais. A SnS doesn’t fit the theme of it
I think it is because it is a heavily Japanese inspired region so they decided to give the player the most Japanese weapon, but yeah giving it as a starting weapon does make the player think it is the most beginner friendly weapon.
@@sirchez_ The argument doesn't work the other way. Sword and Shield has been the default weapon since the first game (Which, some people forget, Longsword WASN'T in). Not counting spinoffs, that's 15 games of default SnS since 2004.
Rise broke a tradition that was nearly two decades old just to shove people in the "favorite child" Longsword's direction. Theming hardly matters; Dual Blades are just as anime and "ninja" themed as Longsword. No ninja in history has used an Odachi, whereas very many have used small twin blades.
Even the loading art shows the hunter using LS
Being a Lance main i've always hated how the LS basically makes Lance looks pointless to play from a meta perspective... The parry(parries now) alone puts LS on Lance's level as a defensive weapon, except you also get to do big flashy movesets with buffed dps.
And on top of that, you take chip damage as Lance. For blocking. The weapon is made to do that. While all other weapons got a free "get out of jail card" .
i think it just means the game is getting easier than before were the game tells you to get good.
Yeah but with lance all you need to do is to press a button while LS you still need to time the monster moveset, it is definitely easier said than done
@@ghostmw8 you clearly don't play Lance at all judging by what you said... But lance guarding is really way inferior to LS parry.
Parrying gives you straight up invincibility frames, guarding means you'll take chip damage+stamina damage+knockback(if you have no "Guard" skill in). Not to mention there are alot of unblockable attack in this game that LS parry can handle since it's essentially a long dodge.
And if you think LS parry is "easier said than done", you're probably a new player. The counter window is so long that it's hard to fuck up, and you can also put "evade window" to prolong that even further.
@@RisqueBisquetz I didn’t play lance or long sword in this game yet but I’m going off the assumption that lance and gun lance have the same (if not the lance, superior) amount of defense and have similar modus operandis.
Nah beeg shield in the game is is busted you are short selling it by a lot. I run Bjuice armor which does admittedly come with guard (but if LS can get evade window we can take this as well) The “chip damage” is pretty much only relevant if you like forgot to eat a meal. This isn’t even considering if you decided to bird up. Stamina drain is also laughable in this game, so much so water blight is an “oh no! Anyways”. I hold up shield, monster can hit it over and over and over I lose barely anything. The only actual threat to sheild stamina isn’t even a monster it’s if some dual blade user decided to demon dance where you were standing.
It really seems like they put way more effort into the long sword.. while the Lance and a lot of other weapons only get left behind..
I hope in the next game they take this approach with ALL the weapons so they’re more like longsword instead of nerfing it into the ground
Tbf the lance may not be flashy like LS but it still holds some pretty insane speed run times, and personally it's my favourite weapon besides per rise HH
I'm a lance main, many have been forcing me to go longsword when I started playing with new rise players. I simply can't do it. Muscle memory and Souls-Like braincells find comfort in the timed parry and the large shield.
Plus, I charge. There's the palamute, but I love lance hunter go brrrrrr
Okay but lance in Rise is incredible fun. Maybe not BROKEN fun, but I love zipping around, flying 500 feet into the air, and shield charging. I wish it were more fun in World though.
@@geo_chronick209 If you don't mind not flying around the sky. The satisfying thunk when you counter makes it enjoyable. Plus, hunter go brrrr. Chasing a Diablos while holding a lance has never been unfunny to me XD.
I think what people dislike about LS is a combination of several things :
The popularity which also, back in the day, resulted in us being staggered A LOT by Longsword players. Flinch Free exists mostly so you can play with LS players without getting annoyed at some point. As people already mentioned, nowadays it's too defensive and offensive at the same time while being really easy to use once you got Quick Sheath 3, at that point you don't really need any predictions but simply parry/dodge as you usually would. Sure, performing 100% clean WR speedruns still needs some skill but that doesnt make the weapon more demanding in 99% of the other hunts being played. Seeing it keep getting buffed over the games despite already performing rather well and being one, if not THE most popular weapon may also probably cause a certain spite within non-LS mains. LS basically feels like that one popular kid at school that you really wish you could punch in the face. You get a constant reminder that it's most peoples favorite all the time while it taunts you with the attention and love it gets in comparasion to other weapons. I feel like this whole "Uhm LS sucks cause weeb" reasoning is mostly cause people struggle to perceive why they actually feel the way they do. I suppose most people just feel like LS is too easy for the average damage output, too popular and receives too much attention despite already being strong and popular.
Whoops, I just realized that I followed my train of thought a bit too much and was only half way through the vide haha
Anyway, in the end we seem to bring up similar points and agree with each other, when I kept watching after making that comment you started to talk about flinching and favoritism which's basically what I said as well. Pretty good vid, I like the fact that you took into account easily overseen aspects such as favoritism as well. Leaving a sub :>
Very well out together. Explains it perfectly for me, a Lance main that has to counter guard LS mains instead of, you know, attacking the monster
It's also significantly over-designed relative to many other weapons. Longsword doesn't just have counters, it has so many counters that basically 1/3 of them aren't even used/noticed by players. Does it really need Foresight slash if Iai Spirit Slash exists? Does it really need hyper armor on its draw attacks? Does it REALLY need a counter silkbind alongside everything else? Hell, does it even need counters at all when the original purpose of the Fade Slash is to reposition out of the way of an attack (the answer is absolutely yes, but that's due to power creep affecting monsters, not just weapons. We now have to deal with vastly more speed and AoE attacks than we used to as the pace of the game steadily grows faster and faster). It felt fine for the most part in World (a little easy to use, but fine, especially in the context of every single weapon being reworked all at once), but when they moved on to Rise, they just kept giving it more stuff without taking any of the old things away. What unique purpose does Foresight serve now that Iai Spirit Slash also can level up your gauge and do even more damage? Well, whatever the intended purpose, the main effect is almost exclusively that it makes the weapon easier and more forgiving to use. If you don't have time to do the Spirit Slash, you can probably make time for Foresight, making many of your combos safe without even needing to think about the monster's moveset. But is that a good thing? I really don't think so. I think this is too much safety and options for one weapon to wield in this game, and I feel like that's partially at the root of a lot of this vitriol.
You're absolutely right. Longsword feels like a spoiled, popular kid that keeps getting all the fun stuff without even asking (in fact, often while actively objectively because the majority of the online community just wants to enjoy the game without being harassed) while many other weapons have to beg and plead over the course of multiple releases to get much needed improvements. It's a symbol not only of the series becoming faster and easier over time (which some people love, some people hate, and some people tolerate but very much fear), but also of the inequality that this kind of rapid development has created among Monster Hunter's iconic and beloved weapon classes.
monster hunter is about slapping big animals with weapons (mostly) bigger than the wielder or in the dual blades' case, roleplaying as an attack on titan character without the gas-powered mobility device. because the gas-powered mobility device is you.
every weapon is a weeb weapon.
the thing with the longsword is because it's good at everything instead of specializing in a niche. its exceedingly easy to pick up. and it only gets easier from there.
wow if you feel that way about LS players please touch grass and go outside for once instead of being bothered that a weapon is popular in a game
The issue with the longsword is that it gets the benefits of different weapons, like Lance's counter mechanic or Great Sword's damage, while also being agile like Dual blades, without ANY drawbacks. No long animations, no chip damage, no huge sharpness loss, no stamina drain, nothing. It's also extremely simple to build for it, since you ONLY need quick sheathe for it to be completely broken. Any other skills beyond that are overkill really, since you already demolish any monster in the game.
Which is why i love it 😻😻😻
Ls just feels so fluid and when you hit the point where u know when to use ur counters it feels so good.
The learning curve is steeper though. If you're good with LS then you'll do really good, but if you're not so familiar with it then you're going to end up struggling a lot. It's performance isn't that much different from SA and CB either, it just trades their gimmicks for its own. In fact, if you aren't familiar enough with LS to know how to combo properly, you'd probably do better using either SA or CB because they have such similar performance but are more forgiving with their learning curve.
Yeah except try fighting any rock wyvern and you'll find how hard using a LS is, since any time the sword deflects off it loses double the sharpness and does glancing damage, barsarios for example the only weak spots you can do sever damage is it's underside but the wings almost completely block any attack from a LS due to the weapons long reach.
Pov: you’ve never played longsword
@@toddniceman5818 I've got about 1k hunts on LS in World alone, I'd say I know what I'm talking about.
PS: LS is even stronger in Rise, so my point stands even more correct
LS was hated for a long time bc it would trip any hunter on the same hemisphere of the monster but when mhw hit the weapon has been able to do more damage than a GS and the skill required to get to that level is far lower. LS has a high skill CEILING but the amount needed to put out crazy damage with minimal risk is very low when compared to any other big damage class like GS or CB. Thats my take and reasoning for disliking LS, its overtuned, requires little skill to do big damage, and has no drawbacks being a fast weapon
It's skill ceiling isn't even that high, its hard to fuck up a counter.
@@CleopatraKing Indeed I mained it in every game they were a separate weapon. In world the Iai counter and the Iai spirit counter were actually fairly difficult to time. Not impossible but you actually need to know when the monster hit box actually starts. In Rise though they removed the normal Iai counter... and made the spirit counter absolutely fking BUSTED. Its so stupidly safe and if u have quick sheath 3 you can almost spirit counter a whole monster combo. The timing just seems more forgiving... as for the foresight slash atleast you need to make a choice on whether you should do the spirit finisher or attack and go into foresight again is SOMETHIGN but its so easy in rise to just no brain the Spirit counter
I mean, i never really notice LS users tripping me that much. It’s usually a bowgun user that can’t aim, or some foolish hammer user standing there and swinging at everything except the monster.
I started with MH4, and the LS trips in multi-player were never-ending. I've avoided the LS ever since then because I don't want to inflict that suffering on others. I don't even use it when I hunt solo.
Charge Blade is chump tier in Rise... Sword and Shield outdamages it.
Some notes and thoughts on this video. First, props for posting a video at all. Topics like these tend to be volatile, so I respect you forming an opinion and sharing it in a concise well-edited form. Second, just as a general thought, I think what is missing from the LS kit is risk. Every weapon from a giant stick and tower shield to two kitchen knives has a degree of risk naturally attached to them. For the two I just mentioned, the Lance is heavily reliant on positioning since you have a limited degree of movement for attacking, dodging, and blocking while the Dual Blades are heavily reliant/limited by your stamina management while also having low raw damage but extremely fast attack speed. From what I know of Long Sword (correct me if I'm wrong), the main risk factor is that you have to be extremely aggressive and liberal with attacking since most of your damage is coming from the Spirit Gauge, but that leaves you more open to being punished. However, as the games progressed, this risk factor became less and less prevalent until we reach today where the Long Sword is not only extremely aggressive but extremely safe with all the movement and countering available to it.
For more precise thoughts: (6:33-6:53) I can see where you are coming from, but this can be said of all weapons. One of the most prevalent gameplay loops in all MH games is being able to read a monster's movement and being able to react appropriately whether that be dodging, blocking, or attacking.
(7:22-8:01) Again, I can see where you are coming from, but I think you are missing a key detail: All ranged weapons have the trade-off of limited attacks. Except for Normal Shot 1 for Bowguns and Close Range Coating (+ no coating) for Bows, all of the other ammunition is limited. This means that the ranged weapons do pack a significant punch, but only for a limited amount of time. The consequences of this are twofold: the ranged weapons are perfect for speedruns but weaken the longer a fight goes on (though this is almost completely negated in World and Rise thanks to the camps). Additionally, ranged weapons have the benefit of not being in range of most attacks, thus negating the risk of being hit, thus naturally lowering the percentage of time needed to heal.
(11:04-11:40) I actually vehemently disagree with you on the topic of flinching. This is probably a volcanic take to most people, but I actually like the flinching mechanic for one simple reason: it reinforces cooperation. Part of this cooperation is tied to the niches of each weapon along with their respective damage types, but the flinching forces you to be aware of your surrounding and take into account not only the monster but the other members of your team. This sense of cooperation, in turn, reinforces the idea that each hunter is not just playing their own game, but that you are corporately playing the same game. To tangent a little, this is the same reason why I grew to love team attack doubles in Smash Bros. You have to be constantly aware of your teammate and coordinate attacks to be the most effective. To give you credit, DarkHero, I do think that some attacks should not trip. For example, the giant sweep attack of the LS and the Shrapnel Shot of the BGs since, in the former, the range is too wide to not hit someone else and, in the latter, the player has little to no control over where the shot hits.
(12:05-15:42) I think you hit the nail on the head! In a game that is supposed to be all about player style freedom, it's extremely frustrating when a particular playstyle isn't up to snuff and especially when an entire weapon class is boosted to high heavens while those that desperately need buffing are Yamcha'ed. As a resident Hunting Horn (#DootHammer4Life) and Gunlance main, I'm no stranger to getting left behind, disregarded, and reviled, but the treatment the LS gets just makes it all sting a bit worse.
To anyone who actually read all this, thank you for your time and I'd love to hear your opinions, *even if they're wrong and I hate them.*
Thank you for this cause I felt that same way and glad someone else has the same opinion
Longsword isn't "extremely safe". The average player will only land a hanful of Foresight Slashes and *maybe* one or two ISSes per hunt. The average player is quite bad at reading and predicting monsters. Effective LS play, not top tier just effective, requires good monster knowledge and the ability to capitalize on that and time counters consistently. For a good chunk of people, Foresight is pretty easy to time. But most people that feel that way are not the average player, or the casual player.
LS's risk definitely balances out its power. I don't think quite well enough in Rise, but it did in World. LS wasn't as strong in World as it is in Rise. It was also more punishing. In World, whiffing an ISS meant that you lost a spirit gauge level. Whereas in Rise, you just incur the damage from it. The MVs were overall lower as well, which meant that LS was roughly middle of the pack in terms of damage output and that was always reflected in speedruns.
LS never gained "less risk" pre-World, I don't know where that logic even comes from. The only attacks it ever gained from FU to 4th gen was the spirit run-in slash and the fadeslashes. The former was simply a shortcut to spirit 3, while the latter is a repositioning tool that allowed you to deal some damage in the process. It has no i-frames, so it has as much risk as before. In fact, it has more risk than previously because you're incentivized to use fadeslashes to dodge certain moves, which is inherently riskier than just using a dodge roll.
I do agree with the idea that LS gains too much power for the effort required in Rise. It's still a difficult weapon to use effectively, but the amount of practice and knowledge necessary for LS is definitely lesser than most other weapons to reach the same results.
Don't worry there are some LS players that know what to do and aren't just anime weebs who interrupt everyone attacks and then Insult them for not doing anything. As a LS/Ha user who isn't like that, it pains me that more and more LS users are like that and other weapons are left behind.
Adding onto your part about ranged weapons, something some people forget is that is gunners take SIGNIFICANTLY more damage if we fuck up.
It’s common to see inexperienced HBGs cart regularly because a single wrong read can lead to an instant cart at times.
@@TheTeletrap Don't forget the resource management. I've been a Gunner since MHFU and I hardly see the topic of resource management and effort come up when people go around bashing my beloved HBG. They have little to no understanding as to just how much time, zenny, and dedication it takes to keep and maintain a stockpile of both ammo types and the combos for said ammo types. Gunning is EXTREAMLY expensive to get into. Buying ammo in the beginning cuts drastically into your funds and forces you to hunt more frequently in order to upgrade your gear while at the same time stockpiling ammo. Not to mention that you can't simply just buy all the best ammo types at the start, most are locked behind certain quests or HR. Which then leaves you farming for the combos for your powerful ammos, and that is a time consuming process that you constantly have to be on top of and altering based on your gun. Sure you could trade using village points for some of the combo items, but in order to keep doing that you now have to take steps in order to keep a steady flow of points to spend on combo items. The litany of processes you have to perform as a gunner in order to simply be prepared for the hunt is a cost that goes unseen by the uninitiated. All they see is just BIG DAMAGE and then complain that they're weapon doesn't do that BIG DAMAGE. The true cost of being a Gunner comes as a tax on your time. Time spent at the farm, gathering materials, waiting for a sale at the vendor, trading for items, buying ammo, doing extra quests for zenny and village points. Gunners spend A LOT of time doing A LOT of shit outside the core gameplay loop just to play the game with an LBG/HBG/Bow. And THAT is the price pay for the power we wield.
I started playing Monster Hunter in MH4U, and longsword was already a deeply disliked weapon in my group. There was only three of us so we'd usually fill the last slot with a random. We ran into so many longsword user's that constantly tripped us over.
I only started in world but I got the same experience, then I tried it out, had fun, my friends got annoyed cause of the tripping, so I made a small rule with myself. I started to learn HH and now when we play, I play HH and when I'm alone or really struggling against a monster I take the LS. It is quite easy but I still have fun and my friends don't mind it too much now, still prefer HH though lol
It's really not that bad
@@ticool_1oh it is, I can't even do a single recitle with the hunting horn without being tripped in world
I started in Freedom Unite and it already had a reputation for being the "easy" weapon
Z
The problem with that type of unbalance is that it pushes all players to play the same weapon and not everyone properly understand the weapon not only that but what is the point on having multiple weapons if 2 weapons clearly are better than the rest
I absolutely agree when 1 weapon has such an easy time taking down monsters it's hard to play other weapons cause your just use to high damage Mobility and faster quest times
i'm pretty sure most of the people in the community don't really care how fast you kill a monster, but, rather, how much someone enjoys their weapon
I don't know, having fun?
Hard disagree. LS player since freedom and its not the damage or balance that made me stop playing the LS. Its the 10, 000 ways to counter everything that makes it boring.
Now i play all 13 weapons.
If you think of it like you're making a RUclips challenge.
Something like 'Playing only X weapon until I beat G rank! I You won't believe how easy it was! (Not clickbait!)
Then it becomes more funny instead of just pointless.
At least that's how I do it.
the thing about the LS is that there has only been added more and more to the kit, without removing anything or giving the moves any drawbacks.
its become the most overloaded weapon imo and -even if it might be fun to play for many people, its become kind of boring for me as all these counterattacks and instant evades take away much of the basic skill when playing the game (roll dodging for the most part. Who even does that with LS anymore?).
yeah, like for insect glaive, they nerfed kinsects in rise and made diving wyvern, a wirebug skill instead of just being a normal move in the toolkit
They removed the claw counter of the lance from world(wich was a ton of fun)...... but they imported most of hunter arts from ultimate + world to the LS in Rise.......the hypocrisy.
ill put it this way as a hunting horn main, was having trouble with teostra, never touched long sword in my life, i put together a shody build and went from getiing stomped to stmping with 0 carts in 5 minutes
Speed runners often roll dude, you're just too focus on flashy counters speed runners do that you don't see their minimal movement like roll.
I am a ls main in rise and i always roll dogde the intire time.
From when I started playing, LS has always been regarded as the newb weapon afaik. It was also hated cause the long reach meant people kept getting tripped which lead to an even worse reputation.
Coming from a LS main since World, I HATED LS users in MH Tri because of the freaking stagger. They would never target the tail and always spirit slash my patience away until one of us carted. When I'd hunt with LS, I'd swing like covid existed in-game; six feet away from another hunter. Nowadays, idgaf who plays what as long as they don't leech while spamming stickers...
It's a game to most and there will always be annoyances in any game you play. If people hate it that much, they can go back to league of legends lol
@@DJponkthispartay The vicious cycle of LS karma continues. Pretty much the exact same complaints since Freedom Unite.
@@DJponkthispartay Personally i hate it to the core when playing MHW cause i'm a hammer main and there's always a random that aim for the head and not the tails. Keep staggering me in mid combo so i have to sacrifice 1 jewel slot for flinch free. But then again it's all about having fun with the weapon you like so i don't really care that much anymore
@@gameoriginal4213 I’ve seen so many people bitch on the Rise sub about “just slot in flinch free” like no, I want WEX 3 instead of 2.
@@xMogek I run Flinch Free 3 from World having it benefit Insect Glaive, just a bad habit... but I generally don't need it, you don't get to be a Seasoned Hunter and not pick up various tricks to avoid tripping.
I do run it for hunting with randoms, but never need it with those I know better.
I think that since longsword has now a bunch of tools in its kit they need to put some love into other weapons of dire need, such as lance and others.
This also reminded me when the elder gave me a long sword as the story progresses.
Me as a lance main at that time: what am I supposed to do with this?
he gave me that sword and I never used it...it's still sitting in the box to this day in it's base form :D
Obviously you melt his precious LS to your lance and get an even bigger lance
Me as a DB main: Ok. I'll ask Hamon to break this shit in two pieces and make some cool stuff with duct tape.
Not whine is what you can do💀
Personally what I don't like about the LS is that the game is now getting designed around it. Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting the feeling the monsters got adjusted (moving around like they have the zoomies) to compensate for how OP the LS and its counters are. So now slower weapons don't have as much openings to exploit. :(
Yep, although this extends to other weapons getting counters as well. Fuck counters man, why are we getting babied so hard? It's as if Capcom doesn't trust us to dodge.
@@revonfyll weird logic since counters are harder to pull off than dodges
@@revonfyll I think the other weapons getting counters is kinda the LS's fault too. So they at least could keep up n shit.
Doesn't change the fact that I still dislike the shift to counter-based combat 😢
@@zanido9073 Lol no. Zl+A has huge windows and most counters in general have very generous windows. Not only that, the reward is insane
GS: Charge instantly to TCS
LS: Yeah alright
SA: Reach amped state instantly
CB: Load phials and be able to SAED afterwards
A lot of counters straight up circumvent entire weapon mechanics. Reaching the hardest hitting attack of your toolkit was something you had to work towards and it made the weapons feel deep. If you can press ZL+A instead to negate damage, deal damage back AND power yourself up, then no counters are definitely not harder to pull off for the immense reward you get.
They are very low risk/great reward which is very apparent since once you get used to a particular counter it overcentralizes a weapon and it's all about spamming that counter.
@@PsycheTrance65 Yep, I agree. I think out of all the shieldless Blademaster weapons, LS makes the most sense to have a counter, being samurai and that shit, but it definitely doesn't need as many as it does now. I think both foresight slash and iai counter are overkill.
Honestly, I think you missed the mark completely on why people don't like LS in the modern era. In fairness though, the video was made before sunbreak, so I'm not going to rant about information DarkHero 2 couldn't have known so I'll attempt to keep post release knowledge to a minimum.
TLDR: Ranged users can die for the DPS they provide, LS doesn't. LS is better than every melee weapon at everything, while also being the safest. Pick a power line between hunters and monsters and buff weapons under it, and nerf LS down to it, don't just buff everything cause I don't want to see MH devolve into Glass Cannon vs Glass Cannon. if the devs want a counter focused weapon, sure, fine, I won't play it but others will enjoy that, and I'm totally cool with that. But that counter weapon can't also be better than every other weapon at everything.
In regards to the tripping thing: it used to be annoying, but frankly, anyone that can't find a single 1 deco slot to put in flinch free is just being stubborn. Plenty of weapons trip people, and FF should be standard in every players set. If you aren't slotting that in, you have no business complaining. So wouldn't actually put that on LS. It was a problem, the devs gave people the solution in the form of Flinch Free. much like stun res, or tremor res. You can't complain about a mechanic, when the game provided you with an optional solution that you, as the player, are choosing to opt out of.
Onto the actual LS though. What I think you missed the most was the reason Ranged Weapons aren't as hated as LS despite doing more or equivalent damage. And what i believe is this: Ranged weapon users can actually die on hunts. Their damage comes at a cost a vulnerability, uptime, ammo management, and mediocre silkbinds. The reason speedrunning HBG tends to be so good is because the monster literally never gets to play the game, sticky ammo, into spread, into traps, into para, etc etc etc. But on a normal hunt without a cracked speedrunner, HBG users can get wrecked from tons of hits from different monsters, some outright potentially killing them if they haven't got health birds. Bow is the closest in terms of offense and defense to LS, but even then, bow only has Dodgebolt, and other than that, the normal rolling like everyone else. And if a bow user does get hit, just like HBG that is gonna HURT.
Now longsword on the other hand is doing better damage than all other melee weapons and comparable to ranged weapons while ALSO getting the defensive bonus of being melee in general, on top of its multitude of counters that require no defensive armor skills to be improved saved for Quick Sheathe 3, which is incredibly easy to get on TOP of the fact Long Sword has no unique armor skills required to improve itself beyond that. No Rapid Morph, Load Shells, Evasion skills, Stam skills (bow and DBs).
Foresight slash is a better dodge than evade window 5 dodge in any other weapon, can be used almost anywhere in the LS combos, can go any direction and if the slice lands, goes immediately into the stage 4 of the spirit slash for instant gauge. That alone makes it the best defensive weapon in the entire game. Better than any weapon with a shield. Additionally, the Iai double slash gives passive LS gauge to get spriit slashes. Boy I sure do wish SA, CB, DB, GL got a move that give passive Gauge or Ammo, even while they're using said resources. LS does why can't anyone else?. on TOP of all that, the red gauge, while giving LS a totally unecessary massive damage buff, there's no move in the LS arsenal that really spends the gauge realisticly, and ever if they do, you just get the level back. Additionally LS can refresh the red gauge at any time to keep it permanent if its not spending it.
And this is all before getting to the silkbinds. Pre-sunbreak, I'm willing to bet Soaring Kick did more effective DPS than any other silkbind in the game. While also only costing 1 bug, decent recovery time, fast usage, very easy to hit, and when it did hit, all the hits activated regardless. Post sunbreak, they gave it impossibly long recovery time, effectively bricking it, cause the other LS silkbinds are so good to its not much of a loss.
Finally, I don't agree with the sentiments of "just buff all weapons to be as good as LS" and for the reason that power creep is a thing. The balance between hunter power and monster power has to be maintained, and if all weapons got super buffed to LS levels, the monsters would have to follow. Which would eventually lead to Glass Cannon fights where because the weapons are so forgiving, the monsters have to be unforgiving to punish mistakes. And having to play perfectly to not get 1 shot(or comboed) is stressful and generally can be unfun. What I'm worried about is the devs will listen to people saying buff all the weapons, trivializing monsters, then buffing monsters, and the game devolves from when it was about Forethought, monster knowledge, precise movement and attacks, to something more twitchy, where you don't have to know anything about what you're fighting, cause you have the tools and animation cancels to auto-correct regardless of whatever the monster tries.
Now if the devs want a counter focused weapon like that, sure, fine, I won't play it but others will enjoy that, and I'm totally cool with that. But that twitchy counter weapon can't also be better than every other weapon at everything. That ability to counter has to come at a cost though.
As a former Longsword main, I mostly agree with you. I started using the LS when it was first introduced. Back then it was so powerful that its raw stats were almost as high as the greatswords. It had almost the same damage numbers as the GS, was faster and had better sharpness.
It lost ( got balanced) some of its raw power, in later entries and gained new moves to compensate for the loss. It maintained its speed, reach and its moveset was easy to understand but difficult to fully master.
That was before World/iceborn was released. World introduced so many forgiving mechanics to make the game more accessible for newcomers, subsequently "powercreeping" the LS.
Rise doubled down.
But the thing that really changed the communities perspective towards LS form indifference to irrational hate, were videos on this damned platform.
Many unskilled and klickbaity youtubers complained about flinching and started calling all LS users weebs, that it turned into a stereotyp.
Ultimately I believe that balancing will always be an issue in games. There's always going to be a " best weapon type ". The negativity or sometimes blatant toxicity in the community, is mostly generated on youtube.
People get too emotional about this stuff.
I'm glad the game has no pvp or any other competitive element, cause that would make the community even more toxic than it already is.
@@neronihil1710 I understand what you mean. Years ago I also thought of LS users being just hte pathetic Speedrunner Meta Assholes. But it's the game that causes the problems in the first place. I haven't been to invested in the entire LS gameplay since I prefer the Glaive anyways, but I noticed that the LS got more and more and more buffs but no drawbacks.
MH Rise changed the Kinsect for example. I couldn't max out my Kinsect the way I wanted anymore. At first I was abit annoyed by it, but after a while it became tolerable. It made me use Kinsects and abilities I haven't used before, so I think that's a good design.
But the LS just becomes stronger, faster, ever more effective. To a point where it looks like LS Player don't need to understand the Monster Movesets no more.
I shouldn't have to dedicate a slot to FF just because Longsword mains chose the meta weapon.
@@faroffshores2216 Then that's your problem, not theirs
@@faroffshores2216 If you want to play pub without FF, then it's your fault. Don't complain about being tripped.
I'm a hammer main, and nearly every time knock down a creature long swords go for the head messing up my combos. They never seem to go for anything but the head in my experience.
GS for the win they can’t interrupt my charges
Use flinch free and later YEET them for being annoying... I always do that c:
I know why they do it. Many monsters doing dmg on the tail is worse than the head unless the monster is in the enraged state. But yeah still they dont attack anything else because head is best spot to smack for like almost every monster
As a fellow hammer main, I feel your pain. Hunting etiquette is ‘blades can cut tails, us bonkers can not’ 😤😔 Let us bash monster heads unimpeded
So I’m LS main and have been since MH Unite, but it’s our job to go for the tail and the arms after that. The people you’ve been playing with just suck and have no idea what their doing.
CB and IG were absolutely broken 4U to GU, them being retooled and balanced were warranted. If you want to talk about weapons getting absolutely destroyed, look towards the bow, while the dragon piercer and new moves, stamina problem was what gutted it absolutely for early to midgame.
I member seeing people take out high ranking mosters in like 5 minutes with Charge Blade in 4U. That was also my introduction to the series.
Yeah, current LS is by no means OP. It's very strong, mind you, but not 4U levels of "click R and X+A and you win" kinds of braindeadness.
4U CB had a huge skill ceiling as well, don't get me wrong, but I'd argue that the skill floor was lower than current LS.
Longsword has ALWAYS had a history of being a MH Pariah.
Mainly due to tripping.
It’s a cool weapon, no arguments there, and watching a high skilled Longsword main do their thing emphasizes the elegance of the weapon.
But man. Don’t I feel like every player and content creator just straight up ignore the beautiful possibilities of the other weapons.
As a HH main, i pity them a bit for not getting to experience satisfaction doing KO with the recital attack
@@gaijinsenpai7714 Or knocking a jumping Nargacuga out of the air with a reverse-oriented recital? 😁
i feel like gunlances are bigger menaces when it comes to "friendly fire" and staggering allies. getting interrupted while performing or, in rise, firing a magnificent trio or earthshaker happens more often than i'd like.
@@bottomlefto While this IS true of Gunlance, especially in World onwards…
…for a long time nobody USED Gunlance.
GL has had (as one person put it) a bit of an “identity crisis” throughout the games it has appeared in. What does it do that lance can’t do better? How do you make it both gun AND lance? What do shells do? Should we emphasize shell gameplay or lance gameplay? Where’s my Dragonator?
And on top of that it’s unapproachable, particularly to newbies.
It has an absolutely borked combo system rivalling that of the Charge Blade. It has an internal weapon class list of considerations (wide vs normal vs long shell as well as shelling level), and unusual skill aptitudes (artillery is pretty niche towards GL and Charge Blade). People just barely picking up the game looked at this thing, tried it, then wondered “who the hell would be crazy enough to USE this thing?”
To which my fellow GL mains laughed, of course, because we abandoned sanity a long time ago. To live for the moment you stick a boomstick into a monster and pull the trigger is the Gunlance creed.
But yeah, I agree. It was risky to play with a GL who didn’t know what they were doing, however rare we were. I had to get EXTREMELY good at not sending my teammates flying when blasting a monster. I was also the only person rocking Gunlance and Hunting Horn for the reasons I stated earlier.
Big point being: there weren’t enough Gunlance players around to piss off the community enough to meme it into pariah status like the Longsword, which has always been more approachable and, by extension, more commonly see aggravating people into ragequitting Monster Hunter.
@@HarryPotter-uv8yp Lance main here, you are right about the gunlance being worse in every way. The shells are really cool, but what's the point when you can sprint full charge into shit and drill them into oblivion, not to mention free jump attacks for a mount. I never saw any situation where the gun Lance would beat out the Lance, but damn does sending a giant explosion into the monsters face feel good..
At least we can both relate to being shafted in Sunbreak, tho
The only problem I have with it is:
If you use it, you *better* be able to take a hit if you miss your parry. The number of carts I've seen from overconfident LS users that screwed up and took a hit they could have easily dodged is way too damn high.
I don't want to fight a monster for 10-15 minutes only for some overconfident LS user taking a hit at low health and being the 3rd cart.
*Make sure you have enough health to survive a hit if you screw up that parry.* That is all. If you keep an eye on that health, we'll get along just fine.
This is coming from a DB psychopath that dodge dances with monsters and gets enough airtime to make a IG user blush.
*Laughs in felyne provoker*
I always grab that skill IN GU if I were to use Longsword, I have to make sure that the enemies are attacking me
I kid you not when I say in my 1,000 hours on rise all of my quest fails came from LS users. The likelyhood of getting a good LS user is low so unfortunately, I do a quick HR/Gear check and more often than not end up kicking them. It sucks but I'm not going online to waste 30 minutes for them to cart when the monster is weak because yolo/swag.
@@BlackBeltGamers88 I'm actually curious that if you play on Switch, have you encountered a player named Cherushi? If so, that was me and I always keep my health in top shape and I'm rarely the reason why quests fail (World/Iceborne practice before I got Rise). I wouldn't call myself a god tier longsword player but I see myself as decent at the very least. I plan to pick up the greatsword eventually too
I don't doubt there are good LS players, I have seen them. However, spamming helmsplitter every second it's up and getting hit every time is a detriment to overall dps. If their goals is high dps they're doing it wrong. I don't think I've seen you or if I have I wouldn't remember. I play solo until I've completed each hunt, and I recommend all players solo a hunt before going to multiplayer and being carried. That's where the biggest problem of unskilled hunters come from. They look at the meta dps no def set, get carried to end game not knowing how to tie their own shows and waste the rest of our time failing our quests. It's one thing to fail with a group of friends but it sucks to start a hunt and have a rando tag in late and just cart 3 times in 30 seconds. Othertimes I go online as a healbot and force quests to not fail. But since we don't have layered HH, I can't have my healing bombadgy horn anymore so I have no interest in horn without that specific doot doot stick.
@@BlackBeltGamers88
Soloing the first time, or at least hanging around a monster the first time you see it, is a great practice.
I'm not asking everyone to be able to solo every monster, but at least learn the monster's attacks and its movements. Like Gore doing its 180, not only does it attack with its wingclaws, but it does a tail whip as well. Seen a ton of people caught by that tail the first few days of Sunbreak.
If you're inexperienced with a monster and in multiplayer, the least you can do is hang back and study the monster. Get a few hits when you can. So long as you aren't costing us an unnecessary cart, I don't mind carrying a little. We're finishing this thing in 15 minutes, regardless.
I've been using longsword for a long long time. How much more fluid the moveset has become is great, but it's overtuned by a lot. The s for counter moves all last about 95 minutes of a 50 minute quest if you even need more than 5. The new silkbind moves also have crazy damage for how easy they are to pull off. If I can hit for 500-1000 damage with low rank gear and no armor skills, it's too high. That said, I still love the weapon, and I won't be too upset if it (we know the devs won't hurt their baby) ever gets nerfed to a reasonable level.
I think the damage comparison is true for vanilla Rise but with Sunbreak they clearly went with the "Guilty Gear Strive" route, meaning that they achieve balance by making everything overpowered.
Maybe in the hands of a top speedrunner it still is king but in my opinion it's a lot easier to deal the same amount of damage with other weapons, faster. Like the time it takes to build up gauge (mid combat) and deliver the perfect Sacred Sheath Combo I could've done 2 Switch Axe parries and 2 amped discharges on the monster. Or you can position yourself well and do a Wyvern Fire + Bullet Barrage for a crap ton of damage.
TLDR: To me it feels like the gap between LS and other weapons in Sunbreak is way smaller than in vanilla Rise.
@@Ocean5ix Thank You person who has not been blind to literally every other video that has dropped since Sunbreak, because other than Gunlance not having enough max level shelling options, most of the weapons look like they have all ascended to a higher plan. Even I a GS noob with less than 20 hunts said," Dang, that Anjanath armor looking sexy with the Aknosom blade." and I have killed a lot of monsters far faster than I actually think I would have with my LS. I tried the SnS because i liked how the Royal Sword looked, and have become adept at bonking the headcase of a monster for more free dps. And the Insect Glaive? Well like riding a bike I started pressing buttons like i was back in 4U and it just worked out lol.
TLDR: I think all the weapons are very similar in power level within reason for Sunbreak. I have been able to hunt with weapon I have very low skill with almost as effectively and have become more preferable to using other weps for different hunts. And at the end of the day i still only see bowguns when i go online so I'm just like whatever at this point as long as nothing gets nerfed "too" hard I'm chilling.
The Longsword in Freedom Unite was fun and kinda balanced. Then in Portable 3rd/Tri we got the spirit gauge system, which was fine as well.
I only see the Longsword becoming a problem from World onwards, since in Gen/XX every weapon was overturned if used with the right style.
It became really frustrating to stand anywhere really when you get knocked on your butt all the time by lingering hitboxes.
You know there's a reason why this weapon has an accurate nickname in German. Stolperstock (literally Stumble Stick) because you couldn't do anything without flinch free.
But not only the Longsword had a habit of flinching people.
On the topic of speedrunning I can see why people say Bow is way stronger.
But as a bow main since Gen/XX I kinda beg to differ a bit. Yes it's strong but you really have to hit the parts that are weak to ranged weapons or you don't do any damage at all. I'm talking e.g. an optimal shot with a Spread 5 bow doing 5x50 damage while hitting a bit to the left makes that 5x1-3. Compared to Longsword where optimal hits do about 80 and suboptimal do 30-40 higher floor lower ceiling.
What I'm saying is: ranged weapons are volatile.
Let's take Kushala daora as an example of "ungrateful" ranged targets. As a blademaster you hit effectively on head, tail and forelegs. Ranged weapons? Forelegs. One critzone that doesn't like to stay put. When he does his wind shield everything except tail and head is a 0 for bow. No hits at all.
Another one of those monsters is Rakna Kadaki. Only effective hitzone is the head, which is surrounded by pincers, legs and butt.
But the most infuriating thing I have seen, and that's done mostly by longswords, is not staying where you do make sense.
If you have a bladed weapon you aim is tail severs first. Then do whatever. But if I am using a hammer don't come close to me with that Longsword trying to hit the head when the tail is still attached.
Rant ended. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Spirit Gauge is in MHFU
I know that's a monster hunter title but I'm going to say that he said f you at the end of that
i agree with your rant/statement as an current hammer player especialy i ones got so mad at a longsword for tripping me i told him to go to the tail since hes a bladed weapon later that day he commented on my steam profile about how i had the audacity to tell him to go to tail
most people i know try so hard to be "pro hunters" that they allways attack the head because "its he weakest hitzone of the monster" i get it for gunners who need to hit that cause of how ranged damae works but especcialy with an hammer in your team pls break the other parts of the monster and dont stagger hammer to death
also annoying is when you later tell thoese longswords to reposition most of the go "just slot 1 flinch free" just because flinch free ist an Lv.1 stone in rise (unlike world with Lv.3) doesent mean that i always can/will have the slots free to put in one flinch free i should not have to compansate for other players ignorance
i remember that in older games it was part of the unritten rules to mind your positionong but somehow in gen.5 especially rise everybody goes for the head since everyone has/needs to have flinch free equipped
sorry for the long comment/extra rant if i dont stop soon i start ranting about how nobody sleep bombs anymore or some shit
@@raidra0973 yeah, I agree with you. as a 4u player that's a definite thing, and if people don't know, someone is usually gonna bring it up in a room, and pretty much everyone listened to each other to a certain extent, since teamwork was crucial. if the same verbal interaction happened in an old world game, you could bet that LS player was gonna get kicked from the hall, 100%.
I loved Tri LS. It was about fluid attacks and skillful positioning. It was still really simple, but it followed all the rules the other weapons had. The fact that World and Rise still have that core moveset is a vile mockery, because the old play style is completely outclassed by parry parry parry. Why play Monster Hunter, when Capcom would clearly rather have us all play Monster Counter?
I always loved the longsword because of it’s really cool design and because I always had a soft spot for weapons like the Nodachi but LS really didn’t need that much of a buff in rise especially considering how OP the LS already is in MHW. I like using switch axe and I’m considering getting into weapons like CB and GS and I’ve already noticed how much harder hunts are. Switch axe isn’t as bad because I have prior experience unlike CB and GS, but with things like spirit Iai slash, and foresight which is just a “fuck you” to damage, I can see why most people see no point in switching off LS because it’s just so easy. It’s a low risk-ridiculously high reward weapon and giving it more damage negating abilities and other broken shit is stupid af. Especially when other weapons were in actual need of some decent buffs at the very least were just completely ignored. I love LS but I completely understand why people dislike the weapon for what it is because the weapon is dumb OP.
i loved the longsword in world, it both felt fast and slow. fast when in combat and countering everything the monster throws at you, but slow when having to start out. it really did get ultra buffed in rise however, but i still have a soft spot for the sunbreak LS mainly because PriMal is super fun to fight with LS especially when you become a counter machine during his insane combo. but the powered up version still beats my ass
It's just an oversized Katana. Cool Design my ass, just admit youre a weeb and you like weebsticks.
@@Flopdoodle who hurt you bro
@@Flopdoodle
wouldnt disagree its an oversized weeb stick but being a katana doesnt mean its automatically bad design
it knows its a weebstick for people who want cool points and max deeps, and it look and feels that way so capcom is doing something right
notion of it being for weebs is also really dumb because mh series is originally for japanese people by japanese people so of course there will be design elements from japan
weebs are just more inclined to use LS but you dont have to be a weeb to like LS gameplay
also, fucking hell what did the original commenter even do to you lmao
i started in 3u, and was in the community for GU. before world, the weapon had playful jokes about tripping, but nothing like the straight malice that i, and the community now share.
i will state, i liked 3U LS, and GU LS, however even valor has a BUNCH of differences from current Rise LS, which from my understanding is a bit more similar to Frontier Z's LS.
Old LS was very punishing, and has always been a side main, and one of my fav BM weapons until World, where lance felt buttery smooth. not only did you have to fight this ticking clock on your weapon but also keep your spirit gauge full to have the dmg boost from that, and then expend it in bursts. this meant to be a good LS you had to basically always be on the monster, and with the range of its teeth and claws. GS could sheath is weapon and disengage to set up a new headsnipe, Lances had their shields, Sns had its disengages and a lesser shield, Dual blades had its quick steps. LS really didnt have a defensive option until Gu with crit juncture (which is worse than serene pose btw). Ls only had the roll, and the fade slash which was a positioning tool to stay on the monster. You could argue fade slash was a defensive tool, but it was slow af, didnt have i frames, and didnt go all that far. i dont think you could escape Teo's claw swipe when he has blast aura.
If you were being a coward as an LS, or getting hit too often, blade level loss. got carted? all levels lost. not being aggressive enough post Spirit combo? lost your buff.
Compare that to even ice borne LS, you now have special sheath, and iai slash just gives you free unlimited spirit for a time, that you can do whenever, and got back when you helm breaker. meaning high tier LS play was, iai slashing, getting to level 3, Helm breaker, an attack, then spirit combo and then helm breaker again. Add a Counter that give copious I frames, normie Iai slash also gives I frames, foresight slash, which gives i frames, and a free blade level if you were bout to get hit.
Rise, gave LS a better crit junture, that can be used more often, and automatically hits the target if they hit you. Crit juncture once triggered, wasnt free dmg, you had to actually land the attack as well. on top of that Crit juncture was a skill that took a lot of time to build, maybe granting 2 attacks on the avg hunt, 3 on long ones and up to like 5 on lao shan lung. Also hunter arts required you to hit the monster to build, while wirebugs recharge on a timer.
Overall the worst addition to LS was the special sheath. The normal Iai slash is often overlooked because it doesnt have good dmg, and isnt that flashy. However Iai slash completely trivialized the basic mechanic of the weapon that required hunters to be able to consistently hit a monster over the course of a hunt. LS will never be considered a well balanced weapon until special sheath as a whole gets fuckin Culled.
Imo Sacred Sheathe is a healthier playstyle for LS, just remove the level up aspect of Sakura Slash or make its cooldown as long as Soaring Kick. Like sure it automatically counters for you during the startup sheathing animation but that comes at the cost of a valuable Spirit Gauge level for mediocre damage which you don't want, and you don't have the luxury of a constantly regenerating Spirit Gauge as you do with Special Sheathe.
Sacred Sheathe counter is ever so slightly more generous, but it doesn't deal the same amount of damage as the ISS does, and also doesn't let you stand still for almost five whole seconds to wait for an attack to counter unless you're not running QS3 on, which then you lessen the output of your charged attacks.
I stopped playing LS in base Rise because the ISS playstyle felt hollow as hell for me, but I've gone back to the weapon in Sunbreak to play a Sacred Sheathe/Tempered Spirit Blade focused playstyle. Feels like I'm learning the weapon all over again, and certainly doesn't feel like I'm turning off my brain and autopiloting as much as I did with the ISS playstyle.
@@ThirdCosmicVelocity if you time the sacred sheath release correctly you actually get a guard point that doesn't waste spirit gauge and instead allows a follow up for the spirit roundslash to gain a level but that guard point is hard to hit, its like the valor style counter but weaker
@@3CODKing It's actually quite generous I feel. The issue is the fact that it's not at all a reactionary sort of counter. For the guard point in GU, you could just stand there and reflexively press your Spirit Combo when an attack comes out to counter. For the ISS, you sheathe and you wait.
With the Sacred Sheathe, you're not just sitting there and waiting for a counter, at best you're weaving the SSC in-between attacks in anticipation of a hit, and even if you land it it deals mediocre damage at best compared to the ISS. It also doesn't propel you forward and out of danger like the ISS, so if you miss the window you're a sitting duck if you don't have time to do Thrust > Foresight Slash.
My problem with longsword isn’t that its flashy or getting buffed or anything! I think thats fantastic that its able to do so many cool moves :) my problem with it is that the other weapons don’t get the same treatment., the moves added to lance in sunbreak felt like the biggest slap in the face after icebornes additions.,
I still use mostly base Rise skills for Lance even though I use the new Sunbreak additions for all the other weapons, which sort of sucks.
tbf lance didnt get much in any of the games
It's hard to be a lance and a longsword main lol
I use baiscally every weapons (some more than others, but i still use all of them time to time) and yeah, some really need better things... the new "hidden" moves for lance that weren't in the demo (the new shield dash and that one that sends you flying backwards) are actually very useful defensively, but i don't like the skyward thrust, lance really needs a Big hitting move i feel, like the Corkscrew jab from mhgu, i loved that art
As a cb and ls main I feel you. It sucks seeing one weapon I like get completely shafted while the other gets everything and more.
Hammer and Longsword main, and I can relate.
"the long sword has high skill ceiling because you need to learn the timing of the monsters in order to evade and punish them" as opposed to the other weapons that don't need to learn monster attacks? That's not a good argument. LS just makes it so that instead of having like 0.1s of i-frame you have 1s instead.
@@user-dm7ui6zx2u My main point is that saying "LS is hard because you need to learn the monsters" is not fair, since all weapons need to learn the monsters. You don't take something that's inherent to the entire game, and attribute that to just a single weapon and not the others. The "0.1s vs 1s" is more of an addendum to that point.
And 0.1s refers to the roll. And I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, both 0.1 and 1 are probably wrong it's just what it feels like to me. The point is foresight slash has much longer i-frames than normal rolling.
As a dual blades main, I do not do much learning, there is some but for the most part I jump and stab then run away until their attack animation ends then repeat, I’m level 90 master rank
@@minaashido518 if you're efficient, learning tells make you invincible from all attacks.
@@lupvirga the only thing I haven’t killed is apex zinogre because it’s fast, I will likely learn that
I'm relatively new to the series, so when I first played Rise, I loved the LS. It was so stylish and did so much damage, why wouldn't I use it? Of course, as time went on I began to get bored of it. After much experimentation, I finally settled on LB, Bow, and SnS. I enjoy being a support/long-range player, and I found SnS to be more rewarding when I wanted something melee. That said, I still have a soft spot for the hand-me-down LS, and still use it occasionally.
for me at least, I use the LS specifically because i'm not very good at A: multiple weapon forms and combos, and B: monster hunter as a whole. I either hunt solo or use it so I don't bog my team down by being terrible and so I can still have fun.
I’m perfectly fine with LS being a powerful weapon. My biggest issue comes with the risk/reward ratio. There is little to no risk with LS. If missing a counter or move REMOVED a level like MHWI, I’d say it’s worth it. Since that risk is gone but it keeps the reward, that’s how it feels broken
Isn't missing a counter and possibly dying from it due to monsters having multi hit combos not a good enough risk as it is? What about the guardpoints from charge blade then? Should they remove all the phials and buffs if you miss the guard point? That is the exact same logic you are using there. You are literally getting the counter or getting the hit, the risk and reward are clearly displayed there. Missing your spirit helm / sacred sheath etc.. or being hit mid animation still consumes the gauge levels. Isn't that the exact same treatment that any other weapon gets?
You miss you get hit. You spend your gauge and miss, you get hit and lose it.
Well with Harvest Moon the new gameplay style essentially is "never get hit" and is unbearable for anything outside of TA with infinited repeated attempts.
@@patxipatch well the issue is for example valstrax double ground stab when he is enraged the second you really learn what the monsters moveset is even if you miss a counter there are alot of ways to be able to avoid it. if you miss foresight slash you can serene pose or you can foresight slash into special sheath it just has MORE options than other weapons that were built around that playstyle like charge blade
@@patxipatch you can literally counter out of a whiffed counter
@@csg1lcolonel528 can everyone do that tho?
Freedom 2 LS main here.
Loved it even before it has its fancy counters. I can't comment about how should it be balanced compared to other weapons, and about how it stands in the community due to bias. But I think a big problem is the risks didn't scale with the rewards. If devs increased the risk (chip damage, gauge reduction, stamina consumption, massive sharpness loss), then it should make players give more thought about the trade-offs and hopefully raise the skill ceiling. Also it shouldn't alienate the current LS mains because it still carries its essence. Though I don't know how it will affect the pick rate because I think a challenging weapon is just as enticing as an easy one. But it shouldn't matter because players would be picking it up anyway for what it'll be. It's up to the devs on how they can make the rest keep up or have it all on the same page.
How to recognise an old-school Hunter... we share a similar opinion, we're usually civil and humble, and we don't just scream like a kid who lost in CoD lol.
I started with MHF2, went back to MH, then played MHFU, MHP3rd, MH Tri, MH3/3U, MH4/4U, MHG/GU, MH World/Iceborne, MH Stories 2, MHRise/Sunbreak.
We share exactly the same opinion on Longsword, it honestly just needs something to put its counter in a higher risk factor... right now there is 0 punishment for failing it, and it's a "get out of jail free" because of this.
@@mikedavies6979 i personally think that world did LS in a perfect way , with both counters rewarding you for hitting them but also punishing you for failing them
@@lucastolter6344 Oh really, and how exactly did it punish you in a significant way? By literally eating a metre that is ridiculously easy to build back up.
That's not what I mean at all, a Counter is in itself a High Risk vs High Reward scenario. Else you could simply block or dodge, and because of that... Longsword's is simply not a true Counter, as it has no real risk if you should fail.
@@mikedavies6979 isnt the Main risk of a counter (instead of Just dodging or Pressing the Block Button )taking damage ?
And yeah it is easy to build Up for someone with experience but for the Major Part ( based on my experience with random Players in rise/sunbreak ) Most people cant concistently build Up their Metre ( unless they rely on sacura Slash (still dont get why the buffed it )
Im Not saying its one of the hardest weapons but also Not one of the easiest , i would Put it around the middle Spot
@@lucastolter6344 You might place it near the middle, but few others do... also, I've never used Sakura Slash.
It's not hard to build up the gauge. Of all the "Gauge" weapons Longsword is one of the Simplest. DBS balance with Stamina Use, SA with lowered Mobility, CB with 0 Mobility for optimal attacks... What does Longsword suffer? Absolutely NOTHING.
Don't get me wrong... I'm in the same camp as you, but if you fail to understand why people get mad about LS, you're no better than they are. The only thing I think the Counter needs is to either inflict or increase recieved damage for the length of the animation if it should miss... that's all.
I think the weirdest part is that the game has potential for stuff like the holy trinity of MMO's (dps/supp/tank) YET they give the offensive weapons absolute capability to essentially tank on their own with no drawback. This makes stuff like lance and gunlance feel like second thoughts as they designed them to be tanky and survivable but have no damage at all.
they end up being less tanky since you can hit Foresight Slash after most inputs making going for a combo safe in LS while in Gunlance you cannot press Guard after any input making no combo safe. They do less damage *and* have less opportunities due to this
As a Gunlance main it baffles me that to this day we don't have a counter attack while Longsword had one 2 games ago. Even in Rise, and they were giving counter attacks out like candy.
@@maultke5088gunlance counter would be awesome bro
I've always thought they should totally lean that direction with the weapons honestly. I mean sns and hh are easily already great support weapons. There's no true tank weapons in the game but they could easily turn lance or maybe even charge blade into tank weapons. I think that would also encourage co op and team coordination even more.
@@maultke5088our Guard Point SUCKS ASS in World. Wyrmstake follow up is still slower than x2 shelling and the guard only blocks one hit lol. You’re literally safer just sitting with block up.
I think the reasoning for player vs player flinching is due to the desire to see players working with more coordination.
They could EASILY make it so that you ONLY hit teammates if they are in a state that benefits from them being hit (stun/sleep).
They could easily make it so you can cap monsters without a trap, shoot without using ammo, ride a monster infinitely...
Easy does not always mean Better, and I don't even need to flex my prestige as a Hunter to put the point across.
If you're getting hit in a hunt with me then you're in the wrong place, and whilst I'm an exception to most LS users out of sheer level of experience... the point still stands, instead of bitching about it here... tell them there.
I wouldn't be so mindful today were it not for the criticism I received early into my hunting career, back when flinch free was non-existent and hunters had to join the gathering hub to play group hunts... good times.
I like SOS, but I feel it's part of the problem... players can just invite hunters for a hunt and likely never see them again, so critical feedback is largely ignored these days.
if you don't run at least one level of flinch free in multiplayer, you deserve to get knocked around.
@@mikedavies6979 I'm wondering whether this was your reply to op's comment or was there a comment that was deleted that warranted the flex down memory lane. I feel like you stubbed your toe or your jacket got stuck on a doorknob this morning. I hope you start having nice days ahead of you my guy.
@@slimfastsubaru2043 Found the LS player.
@@ILockhartI nope hh and hammer and even I run 1 lvl of it even tho Noone should be near me. Lol
I'm loving your channel. I stopped playing Rise only a few weeks after release, I just wasn't feeling it. Then Sunbreak was announced and a ton of brand new content has also been added to the base game since I last played, that was enough to get me interested in the series again. It's so much easier to catch up on news when all of the information is one place. Thank you!
Despite longsword being advertised strongly, I actually seen light bowgun users lot more than longsword users in my games throughout my sunbreak experience.
Man do I wish I had your experience. I can count on one hand the number of quests I've done that did NOT have a longsword player. Unfortunately, I can't say that about Gunlance, Lance, or Hunting Horn...
@@nicolaswarren3453 Ironically 3 of my best weapons, the last of which being my main up until Rise... I prefer Dual Blades, as I've always had a soft spot for Poison Builds with them.
However, I'm a top tier Lance and Gunlance user... and what I mean by "top tier" is that I am extremely aggressive whilst still being efficient... most Lancers tend to turtle up and lose interest before figuring out the trick to their mobility.
I've also been tripped and stunned by light bowgun users far fucking more than any Longsword player. To the point that they are specifically the reason I have flinch free. Honestly, since getting to Sunbreak I've seen exactly one longsword user and he was whatever. Not great, not terrible. Just an average player.
I'm a lance main too, I basically beaten the game up to afflicted quest just by using high rank armor and lance, and gunlance users are absolute menaces that even flinch free couldn't save me from them.
@@dyvawn Longsword flinch is avoidable, something I've mentioned across comments... but some weapons can flinch you through flinch free, why isn't anybody talking about those?
Why aren't people complaining about how LBG has been a dominant and extremely OP Meta since World?
Because it's not convenient to complain about the things they would use instead, being OP is okay when it suits them... but if not? They cry about it not being fair.
Don't get me wrong... there are many reasonable and critical hunters in this comment section, but I'd say 67% are just idiots who like whining for attention... to be honest.
Last week a LS player interupted my True Charge Slash. I've never been so pissed.
I’ve been playing LS pretty heavily since 3U and have been enjoying the pacing of the weapon, as a HH, GL, CB main I enjoy weapons that taken a more technical approach, and with how old LS needed a kind of dance with the monster to get the maximum out of the LS was fun and rewarding. Being able to just tank an attack and counter with crazy damage values and forgo the LS restrictions with the Wirebug mechanic with movement and even more counters is where the current hate comes from.
Honestly, as a long sword main since FU, I think LS changes are for the worse. I don't like how it became a weapon solely focused around counters. Before it used to be a very tactical weapon which rewarded knowledge of the monster and aggressive but calculated plays.
I completely skipped world and picked up the LS with a mindset similar to how it used to be, trying to incorporate some of the new moves, with foresight feeling like just the right addition.
But with how strong the counter playstyle is in rise with the LS, I ended up being more successful just focusing on parrying than by playing aggressive with fade slash.
And honestly, I don't like it, it's not like the weapon I previously loved.
It's sure is flashy and powerful, but it's not what I'm after.
I think counters shouldn't exist in MH, or atleast be very scarce and be more akin to GS tackle or CB guard points.
I'm a LS player, but i love to play with Glaive, GS, Gunlance and CB too. I play MH since MH1 and i started LS in MH2 when it was created. I like counter, but i prefer how it was in MHW, the best MH for me.
I picked up LS in rise because im a sucker for the Iaijutsu qucikdraw and countering Aesthetic (Vergil's Dark Guard in DMC is a good example) is very pleasing to me.. I'm kinda sad now they nerfed it in to the ground
I think there should be consequences to the counter, like if you time it wrong then you take increased Damage (similar to Brave/Valor Style in GU) or lose all of your Stamina combined with a tighter window for success.
That's all it really needs to be tactical again, as it makes the counter a risk with a high pay-off through good play... and less of a crutch with zero issues for failing.
"It's super skillful" but it's not. It can have the highest skill cap in existence, that doesn't matter if it's so overloaded you don't need to use a quarter of it's potential to out preform every other weapon. On something like the greatsword, you need to surpass a skill floor to start succeeding, with the long sword you can just pick up and start dominating at every skill bracket.
Edited and still can't notice "perform" is spelled wrong... coming off a comment that is true, but extremely narrow-minded...
If you have a learning disorder, this isn't meant to ridicule... simply pointing out the danger of stereotyping, since you appear to be an idiot.
However, I do not believe you actually are an idiot... being bad at spelling isn't something which defines a person, not to me.
Note: I was raised to spell Edited with 2 "T" in it... I understand it's just 1 now, but still a bad habit where I use 2 every now and then.
greatsword is easy asfk lol i main hammer and gs. gs now is just land your strong arm stance counter then slap the monster for 2500+ damage. repeat 8 times monsters dead.
@@mikedavies6979 you spelled “edited” wrong, do you have a learning disorder?
@@mikedavies6979 I have one question, why make this comment?
@@sebastiangalger8800 Being up at 4am does weird shit to your mind... so, I'm not really sure why I made that comment.
Perhaps it was a back-handed way of saying you shouldn't believe every stereotype you hear... but, I honestly couldn't tell you lol.
Longswords actually received several hard nerfs. It was a lot stronger before sunbreak.
Yes the gauge dmg was nerfed but it recieved even more flashy and op moves that push the counter playstyle which literally has better defensive utility than lance and gunlance. Its not just about raw dmg but the quality of the moveset available and lance got shafted HARD there thats why people are upset
@@choty7066 Harvest moon is useless in multiplayer and makes quick sheath useless for quick item usage now. 50% dmg reduction on Iai Slash and more nerfs in helmbreaker. Counters are not learned in “minutes” as the dude said in the video. It’s a hard skill that only the few pro players can master and you need to learn each monster timing for that so you will loose HP and dps when failing those (and you will). Long sword and bow were nerfed heavily and other weapons got buffed. Instead of asking for more nerfs for a weapon you don’t mind just ask for buffs in the weapons you do mind. That’s what the devs should have done from the beginning in but instead they decided this and even forgot to make better moves for weapons such as the lance.
@@vrsaommo8193 to successfully counter a monster you need to know its moveset. And you can play any weapon you want to learn it not just long sword. You just get much more reward from learning the same thing on LS than any other weapon. I tried LS after almost finishing the game and countering felt quite easy. Much easyer than in world where you were actually punished for timing it wrong. And its not that im complaining because some hunters have it easy by picking a weapon with such a high skill floor, its because other weapons are shafted since so much of the devs' focus is on the LS
@@choty7066 lance got a dick in a box, CB at least got the SAED hitboxes fixed.
@@vrsaommo8193 they are learned in minutes dude, ive seen it happen mid quest, iai counter is the only exeption to that rule, although, yeah, it was brought to level with most weapons, lance is in the same place tho.
The iai counter is what made me play less with LS because of that small window timing. I watch other LS speed runner video clips and felt like my sword is being dragged through the mud.
So it sounds like the fix (if you want to keep the cinematic moves) would be about a 20% decrease in damage (or tie damage more closely to spirit gauge), and about a 40% decrease in i-frames, so it feels like the damage is the reward for being good at "the dance". Not just for picking up the weapon.
The only legitimate complaint about about LS I've ever heard is that it's shown too much favoritism. Do I need 6 counters? No but I'm glad to have the option if LS is going to be the "counter" weapon.
In World I spent days learning each weapon to figure out what my main should be and it actually hurts that there are weapons literally left in the dirt while others have well tuned kits that make them feel like they never evolved from there early kits.
There being a parry focused weapon in the first place is a problem.
@@MatthewCJoy I mean I won't defend the players who are a nuisance to their party but why is it so bad to have a couple weapons that are better at solo play? The game might be intended for multi-player hunts but people love to solo hard games so of course there are gonna be weapons that have a strong soloing kit.
However I've been using the LS in co-op for years now and I'd say the more annoying weapon is bow users with tunnel vision
I don't even think LS needs to be changed in the next installment, they should just leave it as is, and focus on bringing other weapons up to it's level.
@@The_Big_Jay yes. Please give other weapons even half as much love as LS has been shown. I'm more than happy to have zero LS additions for the next couple games
@@E.G.1005 meant to say parry, sorry for the confusion
My problem with this weapon is that it’s too easy to use. The dmg and counter capabilities are way higher than the lance. Why should a long sword be able to counter and be more defensive than a lance and shield? It literally makes no sense and lance users have been getting nothing for years.
Too easy to use? That's not on ls, ls is far harder to get value out of then Lance and most other weapons tbh. The ease of use argument applies to many MANY weapons. Majority of them are extremely easy straight up. Longsword us easily on the more difficult end of weapons and I implore you to tell me what weapons are harder then ls save for cb
@@renutus1580 literally almost every other weapon is harder than LS. LS is literally the safest choice in mh. literally has all the Iframes and counters to survive anything. the weapon is overloaded with safe mechanics. I could probably pick up a LS and perform better than any other weapon.
@@josezeroninja I picked up bow and found it infinitely easier than playing LS.
@@mugeni6204 hence I said every other weapon. With LS overall being one of the easiest.
@@josezeroninja Lmao, you're talking as if every new player is gonna know how to use any of it's counters effectively and not just get hit everytime. Sword and shield and duel blades are both way easier weapons than long sword is. Hell, the only weapons I'd consider harder than LS, is probably GS, SA, and MAYBE CB.
As a hammer main, my main problem with LS is that I keep flinching which it makes me miss great opportunites to KO the monster or prevents me from doing huge damage combos while the monster is down.
Let me guess some people will tell you to just equip flinch free?
So far I've never met a "Bad" longsword user in Rise. But when I do, "load Heavy bowgun with malicious (cluster) intent".
See if you can dodge these.
Lmao
When I play online in "Sunbreak", longsword users tend to cart more than other weapons. I attribute that to bad counter timing, and master rank is less forgiving.
That's the same for basically every counter-reliant move, because teammates drawing aggro often means monster behave erratically. LS is just almost entirely reliant on it. (even switchaxe has better defensive moves beside counter)
A less timing-reliant moveset of the buffed sakura slash + sacred sheath would have helped, but people are not ready to give up the main crutch (the nerfed helmsplitter and iai counter)
I doubt you'll ever see me cart period... this isn't ego nor is it bragging, it's simply me speaking as a Gen 1 Hunter.
We don't play by the same rules as most... I don't need a massive OP damage set to be a force of nature, it honestly doesn't do much aside from making you fragile and unreliable. Neither of which particularly suit how I play, neither is it creative nor fun to just copy what everybody else uses.
I tend to focus more defensively... building towards minimising my damage recieved and maximising my "Up-Time" (The amount of time I spend dealing damage instead of healing, etc.) as I can do a lot more damage by simply allowing myself to stay in the fight, far more than being a Glass Cannon will grant me.
It's a Lancer's Mentality, and while I technically main all 14 weapons... I defer to Lance in Rise specifically.
And most LS players suck
@@mikedavies6979 I was going to say something but then I saw what weapon you main and yeah you right. Lance best weapon.
(This post was made by The Charge Blade Gang)
@@SunshowerWonderlab I'm in the Charge Blade gang too lol.
I "defer" to Lance, but I "main" all 14 weapons.
It is absolutely the kit that makes the ls a problem, watching a weapon get 6 different counters as well as a move that buffs them is aggravating when gs or swaxe just got one now in sunbreak, it is the Swiss army knife if weapons and makes no effort to hide it, serene pose can out damage great sword hits, it has more mobility than dual blades, it's better at defending than the Lance, and doesn't need to worry about bouncing like gunlance. The spirit gage is a joke at this point, in older games you had to build meter, execute the combo and then do it again 2 more times to get to red witch is a 20% damage increase! It's still the same modifier, but you just gotta counter 3 attacks to get there now, it takes less than a minute to do. In online it's a cutting weapon so it should target the tail, but no long sword player ever does, and why should they when they are better at every other weapons job? Tripping is less of an issue for the other weapons because in general terms it just happens less, "oh well just build in flinch free so then I can't trip you with my long sword" yeah, it's easy to say, but ls doesn't have to do that for other weapons, infact it doesn't have to worry about tripping at all, it gets it for free at spirit gage level 1. Yes it has a ridiculously high skill ceiling, but the reality is that the skill floor is practically as high as other weapons skill ceilings.
They should totally bring back the Guarding Switch Axe from Frontier. Gameplay of it is just Gnarly.
“More mobility than dual blades”
What?
The only problem I have is when I do end up breaking all the parts. Where do I go for max damage now? It's the head, now at that point in the hunt, the monster has like 20% health left. Now what IS TRULY ANNOYING IS AS A HH MAIN IS LBG AND HBG ALONG WITH BOW USERS SHOOTING THE HEAD CONSTANTLY AND STAGGERING ME MORE THEN ANY OTHER WEAPON LIKE FUCK
@@Sangheilitat117 I think he meant in terms of repositioning. LS has the Fade Slash, Foresight Slash, the one hit from the second Spirit combo you unlock, Sakura Slash to a certain extent, the new Sacred Sheath allows you to dodge while charging the strongest part of the attack, letting you easily reposition.
At least I think that's what he means.
@@holykonchu7250 This is why we take Flinch Free. You only need the first level to never worry about getting interrupted by a majority of attacks.
yes long sword is powerful but if we compare iceborne LS to rise, i will say that takes more practice to use Iceborne LS, the s are less and you are punish for failing. iai slash required a better timing and sometimes you will receibe damage since the s were not that great, and if you failed you will lose gauge, also you will not gain gauge upon success unlike rise. heck even foresight in world was harder to pull at the begining , only after a patch became easier to use.
less s? foresight in world has 40 frames of invinsability while in rise is 20, how is that more? also, roll s in rise ingeneral is tighter than the previous mh games. proof? you can check the wiki for mh and, or, check rainy's(mh speedrunner) old twit about roll frames in rise
world s ingeneral is the most forgiving compared to all of the series
hitbox is also a lot cleaner too so it also makes iframing a lot easier
@@LimeNoKi While I don't doubt you, the window on Foresight Slash in Rise feels way more generous to me than it did in World, so I can see why OP thinks that.
@@Malakith it already has been tested, the window is the same just the last longer in world by twice the amount in rise. try foresighting b52 in rise when he does the ground pound,(when enrage) you'll still get hit by the bombs, but the knockback is negated. in world, you'll completely dodge including the bombs, so it is more forgiving
The hate for longsword stems way before world. The memes that longsword users can't tell a head from a tail and that they constantly hit their allies comes all the way from freedom unite eras.
Longsword users were notoriously bad at playing with teams as they completely disregarded positioning and the spirit slash hits so wide that they would always hit others.
Don't even get me started with the poor hammer mains that were at the monsters head constantly being flinched by the confused longsword user that doesn't know what a tail looks like
@@user-dm7ui6zx2u its almost as though that cheap jewel didn't exist back then.
Flinch Free originated in World
@@user-dm7ui6zx2u there were no flinch free back then
@@user-dm7ui6zx2u this comment above me is on past tense,I never mentioned me having a problem with LS user.where did I said that?
I loved the longsword in 4u, even if I mained dual blades most of the time. It wasn't ever problematic in multiplayer, but it might have been the fact that the two friends I played with were smart enough to let me go for the tail while they whacked whatever it was we were hunting in the face or used their consumables. With randos online it's an evil weapon that everyone hates. In a coordinated group, we found it to be pretty effective
I think things especially need to be balanced in pve because diversity keep player retention. Who will want to pick up lance when the long sword does it better kinda thing. So instead of them learning the lance because they saw something cool once they pick it up they are gonna notice their times take a lot longer and more often then not drop it. So if things where to be balanced there would be a very high retention rate because people could try out all the weapons without worrying if a hunt is now going to be 3 min longer because of it.
At this rate I stick to using IG when playing multiplayer because
1) It’s my fallback weapon on monsters that I’m facing off against for the first time.
2) You get flinch free and earplugs for free, which in this day and age is very useful because of how many LS I see.
I get so annoyed because I want to be able to use something like hammer or gunlance because they are fun to play. But when I down a monster with the hammer I’m not able to do the head combo because I keep getting tripped by LS users who seem to refuse to focus on the tail.
It just feels frustrating that people should have to waste a precious decoration slot because other people can’t position for shit.
"It just feels frustrating that people should have to waste a precious decoration slot because other people can’t position for shit."
You mean because people aren't positioning where YOU want them to. Head usually has better hit values than tail, so why should anyone have to hit tails?
@@zanido9073
To break the tail?? So you can get an extra drop and also potentially weaken the attacks of certain monsters??
@@zanido9073 I don't know? Maybe it's to break parts for more rewards? Look I'm not even remotely close of getting angry towards LS players because I use GS amd we can't be tripped while we are in the middle of charging attacks so we don't give a fuck towards LS's fast wide swings, but if we blades don't attack tails until its cut, we are in the wrong. After we blades cut tails, we can go for whatever position we want. During that time, blunts have already stunned the monster at least once so they won't really care about you interrupting them from hitting the monsters face. Remember, unless you are playing solo, MH is a COOPERATIVE game. So yes, we have positions that we prioritze to go to.
Look, if you really care about soft spots in the Monsters body, play solo without buddies (palicos and palamutes), or play with friends. I'm telling you this because you have more control over the monsters movement. This is how most speedrunners in MH play because controlling the monster is so important to them. One of the reason why they have faster hunts is this.
@@zanido9073 This guy trippin. Cutting weapons can cut tails. Cutting the tail gives an extra drop and makes a lot of fights easier. Cutting tails for monsters like Rathalos/Rathian makes the attack have shorter range and don't apply poision anymore. Cutting the tail for Diablos makes the fight so much easier.
@@zanido9073 Players shouldn't have to change their build to make up for a shittier player's refusal to work with the team. no one will trip if the LS user plays for the team instead of against them.
I feel obligated to point out that at world launch the window for forsight slash wasn't generous that happened in the jho patch
it was before jho had like 3-4 frames more of invecibilty and also you could get i-frames with out any spirit meter
13:12 the weapon received quite a few dmg nerfs as well, almost halving alot of the dmg certain moves do.
As a LS main (I only got 100ish Hours in FU and 65h in rise rn) i just feel bad after reading those comments. I really tried out every weapon like great swords hammers etc. But the longsword felt the most fun for me in both games, and i just like the gauge system of the weapon. Now i just feel like every lobby i join thinks im a bad spoiled noob :(
Ignore these idiots and use the weapon you like
The comparison between LS and the ranged weapons is always somewhat weird imo. The ranged weapons have a critical range to be most effective in, trade defense for offense, require a bunch of high level skills to make their ammo more efficient and obviously the ammo itself. LS on the other hand gets to spam its counters for almost the entire duration of the hunt for the low low price of Quick Sheath lvl 3. No guard skills required like shield weapons, no evade window to increase I-frames.
Yeah it's freaking stupid. They're not alike at all. The thing they have in common is they're good weapons. The difference is one has a low skill ceiling and the other doesn't. Idk how he could say that LS has a high skill ceiling lol.
"Everyone says this weapon is broken but have you see THIS weapon? Stop hating and look at THAT one!"
In MHW and MHR, LS exists simply as an easy button you can press if a particular monster is kicking your ass.
LS has been one of the weapons on my "tool kit" but I never considered myself a LS main, I'm more of a CB/GL main. That said, LS in Sunbreak is just ridiculously fun. I've been strictly using the Sacred Sheath parry and Sakura Slash to level up the gauge and cash out with the SS combo. It feels a lot more "involved" than just spamming helm splitter and a lot more rewarding because it's easier to miss but when it hits the big number and the constant part break/tail cut/flinch is just on another level.
But I do agree that the weapon can do it all. I would at least remove the Foresight Slash because paired with Sacred Sheath Parry, Sakura Slash AND the silkbind skill counter that levels up gauge, is a bit too much. Not that I use it that often, I think LS has a lot of moves and skills that serve the same purpose but there are moments where the Foresight Slash is a get out of jail free card and it's the only moment LS feels cheap in Sunbreak IMO, which is a game where most weapons are through the roof. I also think there's no need for the Sacred Sheath Stance to give you an auto parry or it should at least punish you harder for relying on it, like reducing to no gauge.
All the counters can go as long as I can keep my sweet sweet sacred sheath 😂
Just take one level of flinch free and never have another problem again.
~Sees the longsword get upgrades~ ~Still a loyal Gun-lance main~
Same with me with Hammer. Low tier buds let’s go.
The issue with it (specifically in base rise) doesn't take much to get it going (overall skill and build wise) in base rise, all you need is full valstrax armour and chameleos long sword. Literally the build is almost done or outright is done, maybe some decos here and there. For how easy it is to build a GL build, it isn't as easy as a LS build to be made. As well the over all cost for LS builds are hilariously cheap compared to other builds (CB, HBG and LBG to name a few) even though ranged weapons are very OP, it takes quite a bit for them to get there. With LS, it takes very minimal set up for it to be extremely good. And the whole flinch free thing, I think I can vouch for everyone when I say: I'm not gonna lower my own DPS just because your ass (not you specifically but mainly LS mains) can't be mindful of other players when you're flailing your sword around like an overweight Otaku screeching "REE!" At the top of your lungs. I don't hate LS (one of 3 main weapons I used in world) but I'm not gonna sit here and adamantly defend it either.
No lie, you have to put in a lot of work to become a parry god that doesn't take damage. It has an insane skill gap for most players. Its a rewarding playstyle. As someone who played the souls series first it was always the most appealing
every other weapon should get massive buffs to bring it up to where LS is. every weapon should feel insanely good in it's own way, one also shouldn't be untouchable without some type of CD or massive skill involved.
I feel like there should be some weapons that can become untouchable without CD or massive skill. They're called Lance, Gunlance, and Charge Blade. Maybe SwSh. Because they HAVE SHIELDS. Hell, they are why I love the addition of Stinkminks so much. I can finally draw aggro and BE A PROPER TANK
@@Xios_Angelis
they get touched and they take chip damage. only exceptions are perfect guards but that doesn't work against everything (not all those weapons have it either) and the timing falls into the high skill area. also there is a limit to how much you can guard, depending on how big the attack was and how much stamina you have.
i mean you can be pretty tanky, heck even HBG with shield mod can be quite tanky but you still take chip damage and get pushed around/stopped when hit.
my comment is more directed towards LS where they can not only defend (without taking any damage) but also attack at the exact same time. that and the timing isn't really that hard either.
@@rocksfire4390 yeah. I agree. Though with enough guard up and guard skill levels you can block basically anything
@@Xios_Angelis
true but that is a investment, one that takes away from damage or other skills you might want. that's what makes it okay and LS not okay. if LS had to invest into it, to make it good then that would be fine imo.
@@rocksfire4390 yeah. I agree
I'd argue the current identity of the long sword being the parry god started before World. Remember Valor LS in XX? I felt invincible using the parry using the first Spirit Slash and mainly used it to cheese monsters together with the parry hunter art (forgot the name tho).
Reading through these comments has been wild… Why do so many people give a singular shit about a weapon being fun? Why does that in any way affect your enjoyment of other weapons? This isn’t a competitive game… balance does not matter nearly as much. Also, people malding over it being default Lmao. Heaven forbid a development team makes a stylistic choice in a game that is, also for the first time, centered in their own country’s mythos. Jfc.
I don’t mind longsword being stronger than other weapons, however I feel that it’s a bit unfair how much preferential treatment longsword is getting in comparison to weapons like lance and light bowgun
LBG is absolutely op in rise.
@@MrMatratze5005 Depends on the setup. I used to be a spread main in MHW. In Sunbreak now I am using a normal ammo build end game and my hunts are barely less than 30 min.
@@lablunt6190 raw pierce in Sunbreak absolutely destroys pretty much everything.
to be entirely honest the damage discrepancy with longsword's kit in reference to risk/reward is only really present in minmaxed builds
LS is an overtuned weapon but it is not nearly as overtuned as HBG and Bow
favoritism is definitely an issue but at the same time I feel the popularity of the weapon in current gen is because of how interactive it is, counter attacking always *feels* good because of it feeling like a genuine response to an attack, by comparison simply not being close to a monster to avoid being at risk feels stale
it's similar to parrying in dark souls compared to walking away from the same attack, and i'd argue that LS counters are similar in difficulty as well
I'd say the only real change LS needs is to make iai slash have a resource cost of some type (i.e stamina or requiring spirit to initiate) and remove combo links from foresight to iai and vice versa to make counters less spammable, increasing the difficulty in landing one
Nobody complains about gunner because you ought to get a specific build with a specific gun, with certain crucial skills to make them work and also you need to source certain ammo types and ammo materials, set specific item loadouts, etc... Gunner is more damage, but it takes investment in making it work, meanwhile, longsword go brr. maybe get some crit skills and handicraft and nothing much else needed.
the commitment to being a Gunner is the kind of requirement Longsword needs.
Its the whole package. LS players not only get the best offensive and defensive moveset, they also have among the fastest movement and generally quick handling.
I just don't want whoever worked on Rise to work on the next mainline game. They shafted alot of weapons or removed mechanics to jutify or reintroduce them into wirebug mechanics.
Longsword was fine for the most part until rise, in world it has the lowest recovery longest distance roll for example but it's not like it was top of the line weapon, mid tier clear times. In GU it was very hard to parry with the low amount of frames. It's just too easy to parry with it and you can perma chain all parries in rise for the damage it does. I use longsword when I don't want to try positioning because it doesn't really matter where I hit as long as I never get hit since the clear time will only be slightly slower than if I were to use a normal melee weapon with good positioning.
Not sure what changed in sunbreak haven't played it yet.
current LS: buffed a bit sakura slash, nerfed damages when in red and yellow gauge, nerfed helmbreaker wire bug recovery and reduced iai counter damages by 50%, fortunetly we got sacred sheathe that do a lot of damage to compensate and a new silkbind move which is also a faster parry cause now Master Rank monster are fast as F
In iceborne the iai slash felt like it needed to be done frame perfect to work which was great it rewarded actually knowing when a monsters attack would hit or knowing the stun frames of roars. In rise it feels like you can do it a full second after taking a hit and still get out fine it took away all challenge from the skill it looks way less cool in rise too.
@@Lunk42 ISS in Iceborne is that one move you do when you knew the timing for a *specific* move from every monster, down to its timing and positioning. Few examples I could think of are Glavenus spinning slash, Brute Tirgrex stomping roar after his usual charge, or Teostra stomp and spin.
My problem with ISS in rise is how its usage is overlap with both foresight slash AND spirit combo, making the latter ultimately obsolete, more so now with silkbind sakura slash.
Honestly the things that piss me the most off about LS mains is they act like they’re the only players in a hunt and just do not care about the three other sentient humans alongside them, they seem to actively the avoid the tail (the area they should go first), and they always try and prioritize looking flashy and cool over actually doing anything to contribute. It’s not just that it’s an unbalanced and over-favorited weapon, it attracts some of the biggest, most selfish egos in what’s supposed to be a co-op game.
MANY LS players I’ve come across are total dumbasses and throw caution to the wind. They have too much confidence in themselves and charge into a monster they’ve never fought before, and more likely than not, find out what dirt tastes like.
Hell, when I’m farming for rare drops online, and I join a hunt with a LS main who’s host, I can almost guarantee they’ll cart at least once. Bonus points if they’re still running Valstrax and getting one-tapped by Master Rank monsters.
As the only Gunlance main left on the planet, I used the longsword once for a reason. To see how annoying it was to hit your teammates rather than than them hitting you. It is annoying and I find hitting people with my Wyvernfire funnier and at times somewhat helpful.
Bro make that two gunlancers. I’ve been shelling since MHFU
As a hammer main, nothing is more irritating than me trying to skull-bash a monster, but instead, I'm getting slapped by a long sword. Some seem to think their tiny extra bump in damage to the skull is better than me actually keeping the monster stun-locked in place for everyone to keep attacking. It's sooo frustrating.
But of course, I've got love for the LS users who chop tails and practice their social distancing while swinging~ lol
realistically, its the flinching flinching other players is fine because it wont happen that much untill you have a melee weapon with huge wide and long attacks.Ideally this increases the skill ceiling and makes positioning yourself important, but the problem comes in because flinching doesnt punish the LS user it punishes the other players which means that they never learn from their mistakes and just continue on like nothing happened. You then give new players the LS at the start and you Buff it so its easy and good solo then most new players are going to go in to multiplayer lobbys with it and start tripping everyone because they dont know any better and piss everyone else off its a perfect microcosm for making a most hated weapon.
Ive been using the LS ever since it was first introduced to Monster Hunter, and I will die with my LS. Currently using it in MHNow 🕺🏻
The flinch issue can be more than the 'just 1 more pt on flinchfree'. As someone mostly play SnS/HBG/lance that play with a buddy (DB/LS user) regulary, my biggest grudge with LS is that if I got hit in the shield, the outcome can be worse than got hit.
LS can tag your shield and quickly move out of the place, whereas the one have shield would be lock in place for a fraction of second, that is enough to force you to tank an monster attack you could have roll out of its way. I ditched shield on my HBGs mostly because of this.
Or in IB I use guard→backhop to initiate PR, a hit to the shield would stop the transition to backhop, then I need to start over. SnS have other options you might say, but in my experience, attack/roll→backhop just a bit too slow to land the max punish on downed monster (Say master rank KT, you can pull off PR 1&2→roll/backhop→full PR, and the final hit of the 2nd PR set would latch onto KT's head right at when it gets up, which can lead to a part break or stagger, that short of a time difference between initiate from attack or guard can throw off the final hit)
I play counter lance most of my time with lance, and I have countless times that my buddy hit my shield, that hit stun stop the transform to power guard, trigger my counter early and let me caught by monster attack.
this is not like normal flinch, you can't mitigate with flinchfree.
To be fair any weapon can do this, but LS is the worst offender here for 1, its popularity; 2, range/width of moves that they have to do to maintain their gauges; 3, the mobility. It's like, they did nothing wrong, you did nothing wrong, and still you're the only one get punished because of this.
That's not an issue with ls, that's an issue with the game design. Makes no sense that you can block allies attacks (also makes no sense that you can flinch allies to begin with)
The thing about the favoritism, for me, is that it isn't just MH and it has really burned me out on katanas, which I used to love. Dark Souls 2 and 3, Elden Ring, even Final Fantasy XI back in the day all had this issue: Japanese developers would show clear bias towards katanas and ignore weapons and classes that were truly struggling. Back to FFXI, the Dragoon class was left to languish for YEARS, to the point that the class itself became a joke in the community. People actually laughed at you if you played it. Meanwhile, Samurai would just receive buff after buff despite being the most consistent damage dealer in both endgame and exp point parties. I don't think I need to explain DkS 2/3/Elden Ring since so many people already have a clear understanding of those.
It's been a constant with Japanese developers and it's frustrating. I don't mind the weapons being good, but weaker weapons being completely ignored shows that devs often are either out of touch or don't care.
I think the real controversy started because new players who mained LS refused to comply with hunter etiquette.
For those who don't know, the classic games had unwritten rules in multiplayer where you were supposed to attack where your weapon did the most part damage. LS, DB, and SnS attack tails, Hammers and HHs attack the head. However, for all the reasons you said in your video, LS did higher DPS at the head so new players kept aiming for the head to the detriment of blunt weapon users. I can't provide evidence because I left years ago but I started seeing hammer mains complaining about this in Facebook groups and LS trolls started bullying Hammers. It started to make this mentality rhat LS mains were entitled assholes who demanded everyone accommodate to them like a toxic friend who gets a hissy fit when it doesn't go their way.
Everything you said in your video is true without a doubt but I think the controversy truly started because new players who didn't understand the classic players culture tried to brute force their way in and expected older players to just accept it; and the rest is history.
They adapted but at the end of the day everyone else has to play around the LS user. While everyone else has to equip flinch free, they don't have to, they're not getting flinched. They don't give don't care.
No one respects that anymore. Everyone goes for the head. SnS even does stun now. I play hammer as well as longsword, and I get tripped the most by ranged weapons.
i've started playing this game for about 4 months now, been playing with a friend as LS. It became apperent quite quickly that i was interrupting him a lot, i was new ofcourse..but i felt that it was my responsibility to work around this obvious drawback. Ever since, i try going for the tail first and stay out of the way of others.It is not that hard really and i know how frustrating it can be if your charge is wasted.
So I never knew about this etiquette though I have just started playing multi-player so assuming that it applies to Rise is there any form of etiquette for insect glaive? I don't want to bother anyone while playing
@@curlyfrize7675 speaking only for myself, I am unaware of any particular issues with IG, aside from aim for the tail if you can. Aside from that, I encourage you to ask other glaive mains
Not only does it interrupt other hunters doing combos in a huge melee area, it can parry and counter. Sure it requires a lot of skill, but should it really be a weapon that is good at everything and bad at nothing, when every other weapon has a tradeoff and fills a specific niche?
As someone who isn't really a veteran...I will never understand the whole hate about LS.
Most of the comments I read don't make a lot of sense to me.
LS is overpowered to a degree where it outclasses every other weapon at this point, and where other weapons fall back and deserve getting additions the LS gets more of them. then you have newbie players that spam it and don't play to the strengths of the team and go for anywhere BUT the tail in hunts and interrupt the other player's attacks, thus ruining the hunt and making it take longer and making it harder to damage the beast in question.
I feel like it's kind of dumb to say: "LS isn't OP, ranged weapons are OP. It's in the top 5 with them, in fact it's number 4, the best melee weapon." Plus, a lot of the weapons you mentioned don't flinch players as often as LS does.
Flinch free is a 1 slot deco. There are many other moves that flinch, so if you’re playing multiplayer, you may as well equip it.
@@socialrhombus3288 Because having to equip decos cause other players refuse to position is dumb, even more so when LS has flinch free BUILT into its moves for free, so now the guy tripping you can't be tripped by basic attacks themselves while not needing flinch free.
@@ekirbo where tf did you hear about them having ff? LS mains trip each other all the time when they don’t take it.
@@socialrhombus3288 Fill up the gauge and use spirit sword moves, outside of the swax alternate discharge which blows away everyone you get FF during the moves.
@@socialrhombus3288 shouldn't have to sacrifice a deco slot for YOUR build just because some loser ls wielder doesn't want to work with the team.
Rise: "ls is best melee weapon."
Sunbreak: "Haha Flex go BRRR"
For me the most annoying part is not only that LS is obscenely overpowered now, it’s also stolen the niche of the existing counter weapon by being vastly better in every way. It’s even worse now that practically every weapon has some kind of counter thanks to silkbinds.
Personally I don’t like the way the devs are homogenising specific weapon abilities like stun, counters etc because it stops each individual weapon from being unique and interesting. If every weapon could KO monsters, counter, cut tails etc, they’d all feel samey and boring.
"stops every weapon from being unique and interesting" ... I'm just going to say that's bullshit and move on. I could break down in tantalizing detail why that is, but I'd rather not advocate being an asshole unless I absolutely must.
"If every weapon could KO monsters"
They already could with thunderblight.
@@EcchiRevenge Thunderblight is also only available via Thunderbeetle.
@@CaptainCFalcon Or certain monsters...
@@EcchiRevenge okay? Specific Wyvern riding attacks & Thunderbeetles aren't _built into a weapon's _*_MOVESET._* KO values ARE.
Came back to this video to let everyone know I just watched a Longsword take all 3 faints from Fatalis trying to Iai Slash his breath.
Still wonder about the hate for LS when 5th gen guns and bow are just insane brainless DPS.
I was about to run with this, until I saw the charge blade. Now it looks like one of it's attacks came in the form of a circular saw.
Nothing compared to the saw attack from world. There was just zero skill involved there 😭
@@xMogek I don't really notice a difference besides it being one or the other in Rise, as World had both the Spinning Saw and the Sword Charge abilities at once.
I'm naturally competitive and I like to compare myself to others, my main hunting buddy has a damage meter so I usually ask about it. Longsword players outperform us with what seems like such a low barrier that I feel like my achievement is invalidated because they have an easier ticket to the same endgoal. It makes me not even want to hunt with Longsword players, or that someone in the hard endgame gear got it with less skill than would be needed normally.
...Huh... That's not a bad idea. Anytime a LS user pops into your group/lobby, insta-kick 'em. Or refuse to hunt with them. If they ask why, simply state "Longsword".
@@MrJinglejanglejingle aight this as toxic as a rathian’s tail…
@@opbattleaxe8744 Nobody said you had to stop playing with your crutch weapon. I just won't let you get near me.
@@MrJinglejanglejingle which is still toxic as hell. It’s one thing to refuse a follow up hunt because some asshat keeps tripping you, it’s another to refuse a hunt/kick people because of someone’s weapon type. Even if it is a crutch weapon what’s that got to do with anything? Is the hunt slower because someone uses a good weapon/gear? Normally when fellow hunters underperform in the damage department *thats* the problem. A Hunter that performs well? God forbid it’s ruinin the hunt!(/s)
@@opbattleaxe8744 Its amusing that you think you'll change my mind on this. I already didn't like the Longsword in early World, due to how simplistic, yet powerful, it was. Nowadays, its even better. I'm not going to let those that rely on a crutch into my hunts until they learn to actually play the game, rather than relying on what amounts to a free win.
It's not only favoritism it's the fact that the long sword takes away the identity of alot of weapons, expecially when it had its own identity but the worst part is it gives up nothing to get the best version of what other weapons has, as well as the weapon having no weakness means its just the default best pick why play half the weapons in the game when there's longsword
Long sword in pub games 100% the reason why I have to have a brace jewel.
It's like "hi I'm the one guy who should 100% be on the head as I use a stun support weapon"
Every ls user in pub games "and I took that personally"
Funny how this didn't age well
The LS's dps is on the ground, CB, GS and SA are over the roof and the ranged weapons are officially easy mode on sunbreak now
Waaah, LS isn't top weapon anymore waaah
I don’t mind most long sword players as long as they’re good and understand positioning but with so many people using it because it’s popular and strength. You get saturated with players that don’t understand positioning.
Oh I've used it back in World. I always try to target the tail first (though some monsters make it difficult, looking at you Royal Ludroth). Weeks before Sunbreak released, I crafted dual blades and though I went back to longsword, I plan to eventually spice things up with the greatsword once I feel ready
I think a large issue is also having no real reason to join lobbies in rise or world unless you want to play with specific people. If you can just join a quest you need to complete and then immediately leave, then you don't actually have to suffer the consequences of your longswording actively interfering with the rest of the hunting party's attacks. Back in 4U we used to just kick Longsword players if they weren't mindful of their positioning.
I'll always diss on longsword mains because it's a low skill high reward weapon
I guarantee for a fact that they don't care.
I've been playing Sunbreak and if anything adding so many moves to long sword kind of detracts from the flow. I know you don't have to use all the switch skills, but they are there and a part of your brain wants to use them even if they're not optimal. The feel and animations of Iceborne were my favourite, but I can see why people considered it over-tuned even back then.
well peppo agrees with that for him being a speedrunner he felt that he is forced to use all the styles and isn't really like it but may in time grow to. I for one can't stand it to be honest. it should have been like in GU with the multitude of different style
Lot of whinging in the comments but it won't change my stance. LS despite peoples' salt, is my favourite class to play alongside SnS and DB. I just like constantly being up close and engaged with little to no downtimes. It's not my fault other LS players are new to the game and trip you up; even I use flinch free as a LS main because of those players. LS players trip other LS players too, it's not like we aren't also annoyed by it, not to mention it's not just LS players who decide to focus on the exact part of the monster you're focusing on (e.g someone literally coming up on the tail while you're midcombo whilst they should be focusing on the head for their damage type) or using AOE attacks that stagger everyone in the vicinity (I'm looking at you bow users, GS and Hammer users)
Additionally I think a lot of LS players are just in over their heads when it comes to their skill level. So many carts from even decent players who otherwise perform well, because they build for DPS and try to be flashy with failed counters too often. Personally I use a comfort build and play safe, and try to keep out of peoples' way- although trying to keep out of peoples' way doesn't help when people literally just insist in being in your way. My friends were bad for this, constantly just running in my way while I'm animation locked midcombo and then crying about being tripped. So I just told them all to put flinch free in their builds and stfu. I have flinch free because they often trip me too because they have zero spatial awareness and consideration. As a LS user I use vertical attacks and fade slashes to prevent tripping and move myself away from other players/shift myself behind the monster's legs, etc, but my friends would constantly run up on me when I start a spirit combo.
I’m an Insect Glaive main. And while it’s not a bad weapon per se, it’s just such a consistent damage type weapon. There aren’t really any attacks that scream “hell yeah I hit that”
Like the phial burst or whatever with charge blade. When you hit that, you feel so good. I wish every weapon had something like that. I’ve been using Charge Blade more often because the loop of it is so good and it makes you feel so OP. I hope someday Insect Glaive gets that same treatment.
The Wyvern Dive (or whatever it was called in World) felt that way in spades. Made you feel like a badass dragoon coming out of nowhere to deal massive damage to a monster. The new stuff just doesn’t feel that same way, but I still love IG for letting me defy gravity.
@@darkcharizard52I just wish they didn't make it a silk move it would have been so much better if it was just a normal move like it was for iceborne