Magnificent Engraved Bergmann Pistols
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
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Today we are taking a brief side trip in Bergmann development to look at a couple of magnificent engraved Bergmann pistols - specifically, a pair of model 1896 No.3s, a Bergmann Mars 1903, and a model 1910. One of these (the 1910) was done by an outside engraver, and the others are examples of Bergmann factory engraving work. The Bergmann style is one of very fine banknote style scrollwork with gold accents - I think it is beautiful, and really highlights the skill of the engraver.
The 1910 is an interesting piece both for its style and for the gold Arabic phrase on the side of the slide, which is an excerpt from the Hadith and translates to "Verily, strength lies in shooting". A pretty apt martial exhortation for a pistol! Examples of several of contemporary examples with the same engraving pattern do exist in museum collections to this day, which hopefully I will be able to examine in the future.
The best of these guns, of course, is the immaculate 1896 in its presentation case. Like a true time capsule, it shows the full quality one would have received from Bergmann in the late 1890s.
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I suspect Ian's series has single handedly put the value of Bergmanns through the roof... I'm not a gun person, this channel fascinates me for it's mixture of engineering, design and history - but I'm actually doing the paperwork and making eyes at my bank manager, so I can bring one into the country - I'm actually reading up to sit for a gun license, because "monkey tail magazine clips!"
Hi Laird, I think symbiotic is a great word for their relationship. Guns come into the auction houses from collections that may have only ever been seen by the owner and a handful of guests. Some of the guns are so obscure only a small group of collectors will recognise their uniqueness. Ian gets to troll through the guns up for sale and do videos on the most interesting ones. I have noticed that the auction houses then link those videos to the ads for those firearms. I know if I could afford to buy such a collector's piece, seeing one of Ian's background pieces would likely drive me to bid more for a particularily desireable piece, so the auction house's incentive for allow him to do this is clear. However, the most important part, from my point of view, is that the firearm is documented and shared widely, because once they are sold, they often disappear into another private collection not to be seen for another generation. I really appreciate gun collectors (like the owner of these many Bergmanns), who agree to let Ian document their collection. It is a shame so many beautiful guns are hidden away, but there are limits to how many even a museum can display and those displays lack the context and history in their presentation that one of Ian's long form videos can provide. Truly, have Ian document them and share them on Forgotten Weapons is a real benefit to us firearm fans. :-)
I haven't owned or shot a gun in over 10 years - mostly because of where I live and due to health problems, but Ian brings the history and beauty of these guns to life. Plus, he has a gentle and relaxing way about him that makes him feel like a friend!
johnnykache1000 Ian from ForgottenWeapons definitely feels like a friend having a chat with you. That is why I always tilt the phone back so he can't see me sitting on the toilet.
Oh man, that's hilarious!!
I agree. That is a very appropriate inscription for the side of a pistol.
Bergmann factor does have a specific style of ultra fine engraving that is not very common. They also run on the principle if it is worth engraving, it is worth engraving all of it, ha.
I'm Swiss and i was thrilled to see that last gun! Suchard is still in Neuchâtel to this day and you probably know them for the world's famous Toblerone!
Simply breath-taking. Amazing collection, my regards to the owner for letting us all admire it.
Whoever loaned you these guns deserves a very special thanks. This is the kind of content I watch this channel for. Next time you see or talk to the collector that loaned you these fine guns please thank him again from this viewer.
The inscription says it was the 100th birthday of the Founder of the company not the 100th aniversary of the company
Yep
Ich bestätige
The owner of Russ-Suchard at that time was Carl Ruß, son-in-law of the founder.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Ru%C3%9F
He is responsible for the Milka chocolate and therefore pretty much any milk chocolate, but although I would thank him for that with such a nice piece, the gun predates the chocolate by one year.
Somewhat weird is that the factory founder never got to be a 100 years old(not to surprising for the time), so this gift was post mortem but the case is still inscribed with 1797 to 1897...
As I said - the gun predates the "invention" of milk chocolate.
And Carl Ruß may have been a german (from my hometown, btw.), he improved Swiss chocolate, while he owned a Swiss company, was married to the founder´s daughter. But - Milka was mostly produced in the company´s german factories back then.
I think Ruß got the present not only as the owner, but also as part of the family.
TheAnonymmynon That is correct, Phillips Suchard didn't actually open his chocolate factory until 1824, it's descendant is still on the go, they eventually came under the control of Kraft and chocolate production moved to the Toblerone factory in Bern.
Really stunning engravings and in such aesthetic harmony. Done by hand too. Thats insane craftsmanship.
My favorite historical pistol purely from the design and now even more beautiful with this super awesome engravement.
Ian, your videos are also the reason I fell in love with the Bergmann design, especially the 1894 and 1896 No. 3 patterns.
Ian is a hero of forgotten firearms, I hope more institutions and private collectors come to know him and share the items for him to document.
As Ian's fame increases it might increase the value if he reviewed the piece.
What craftsmanship on these Bergmanns. It is hard to imagine the time and skill necessary to accomplish this level of work. Beautiful.
The Milka chocolate guys got a freaking nice Bergmann !!
Philippe Suchard, the guy born in 1797 who created that company is also the guy behind the chocolate as you know it today.
These are just gorgeous pistols.
Inscription:
Dem Jnhaber (Inhaber) der Firma Russ-Suchard & Cie (Compagnie) Neuchâtel zur frdl. (freundlichen) Erinnerung an den 100ten Geburtstag des Gründers, gewidmet von Bergmanns Jndustriewerke (Industriewerke) Gaggenau.
Translation
To/For the Owner of the Company Russ-Suchard & Cie Neuchâtel as friendly reminder of the 100th Birthday of the founder, bestowed upon by Bergmanns Jndustriewerke (Industrial Works) Gaggenau.
You don't mess with Chocolate factory owners, apparently.
Or you do mess, since Ian mentioned it was probably never fired.
Sweet and creamy deterrence.
That is craftsmanship and art together, possibly the most beautiful gun I've ever seen
The incription on the one for the owner of the chocolate factory is not for the 100th birthday of the factory, but for the 100th birthday of the factory founder!
very nice pieces of art!
Хрюн Моржов strangely the pistol was still for the current owner, but the event due to which he got it was the 100th birthday of the founder
I just discovered your channel yesterday. Have to say I might be doing some binge watching. That is some really neat scroll work.
I'm sure Suchard is still a running confectionery business. I'm sure the present owner would love. Great vid as always. ThankQ. TkEZ》UK
Sooooooo beautiful!!! Truly this Bergmann series is a blessing ;-)
That's some of the most beautiful engravings I've ever seen. Magnificent.
Ian, this whole series has been a revelation, thank you so much. It is an indication that Forgotten Weapons has achieved a sterling reputation for such a special collection to be available for our perusal.
Woah, I'm having deja vu about the text at 2:38.
That means I'm either watching too much Forgotten Weapons or not watching enough.
good gravy that last one was flawless
Understated elegance.
That is stunning craftsmanship. Must have been many hours of work.
The last pistol is so exquisite, both in preservation and craftsmanship
some people really are talented. thag engraving is amazing
These Bergmann pistols are just cool. The more I watch the more I want to have one just to say I have one. I would not even want to shoot it. If this was not one of my favorite youtube channels already it would have been after this series of videos.
Ooooh I'm in time to see a new release!
Beautiful pistols, love all the intricate details.
Love the channel and the videos, especially the more rare weapons :)
Nice to find you around here, Cobra6. Haha
Hehe interesting videos do attract me :D
I suspect, whoever did this engraving was able to draw an almost perfect circle - freehand! In this craftsmanship there's almost no room for Errors. Imagine this on a Job that takes weeks or rather months to complete!
Wow.... just wow... That is nearly a lost art by today's standards of engraving.
V Guyver not even close friend
Indeed, just look at a London Best shotgun.
You see some cool AR15s and 1911s with engraving these days but honestly they don't touch the level of detail and artistry of these old guns.
Josh Samuelson what? just because you can't afford it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. there are pieces being put out every year that eclipse these works 10 fold
not only that but the methods are often different. Now the old craftsman are being replaced with digital plans and automatic machinery and laser etching.
I love these Bergmann videos!
Ian, if you could do more with engraved weapons of this quality I'd greatly enjoy it...been wanting to see more of this ever since you did that Tiffany Colt video.
I think that "fruit tree" at 5:30 is most likely an oak-tree. Which does make sense.
It's an oak tree. There are acorns at the base and oak leaves at various other parts of the gun.
The oak is a traditional German symbol on coins, military icons, hunting weapons etc.
And on the other one it looks like grapes and grape leaves.
I agree on the oak. I had to pause it a few times, it looked at first to my drunken eyes like it may have been a fig, but I am of the opinion it is a representation of an oak because of the shape of the leaves.
Sorry for the immediate second comment, but I forgot something. Considering the provenance of the piece I am more firm in my belief it is oak and not fig.
It also looked like the magazine sides were engraved
really fantastic, thanks showing it
goodness these are wonderful to look at
Damn. I usually think engraving is a bit overly fanciful, but I love the factory Bergmann. From a distance, only the outlines of the shallow engravings and the deeper engravings are visible, so it doesn't look cluttered or over-complicated. But when you take a closer look, you see some beautiful, delicate engraving. It has an awareness of aesthetics at different distances, not just when it's displayed on your bookshelf in your study.
Wow, some gorgeous engravings.
-Jen
From the earlier Bergmann videos, I was not impressed by them. After seeing these engraved ones, I suddenly am! Holy shit they are nice!
Such a shame that he slighter engravings have worn off so much over the years.
on the second pistol you showed i noticed the sides of the magazine were also engraved from what i could see from them at least
5:35 fruit tree? come on ian, this is hardly the first time you have seen oak branches and acorns as a german heraldry motif!
I'm going to hazard a guess, those floral patters and the gold, bean-like things, cocoa plant and beans? I mean, the whole gun looks like it's made of dark chocolate. :)
I was thinking grapes, IIRC cocoa trees don't have leaves like that.
Me thinks that the finish is black chrome, so it gives the illusion of it being made from dark chocolate.
Auf Fidersson an me thinks you no know to speak english
I guess Kraut space magic applies to engraving, too.
I think the ,,fruit tree" on the factory-engraved Pistol was actually an oak tree. Oak-like leaves and 3 acorns to the feet of the tree if I saw that right. Don't know what the gold-embalishment is then supposed to be though. But oak trees and oak leaves are/were a typical decorational element in Germany and other parts of middle-europe, so I'll go with the oak
These guns are beautiful! truly works of art.
they look really amazing some great work
I do not care much about embellished firearms, but these are gorgeous.
But what really threw me off was the fourth one as I've lived 16 years in the canton of Neuchâtel (La Chaux-de-Fonds to be precise) and I was stunned to see a familiar name in gold inlay.
Thank you for proving me wrong in my opinion that "fancy" firearms are a waste. I would not buy one, yet these I could look at for quite some time without getting bored without shooting them.
4:33 There’s engraving on the sidewalls of the mag as well! Jesus, they were thorough with pimping out these guns.
I have to say, the engraving is quite Art Nouveau for the date; they were looking to the future for sure...
The factory engraving is insane! Almost makes it look like its made from Damascus steel
so many Bergmans, gonna need their own list;🙊 keep the good work.😎
Man. You found the mother load of Bergman pistols.
once i read on some collector, that ordered a special collection of pistols with a certain gold engraving. be it a pistol, riffle or cannon, every one example of the collection had to be a gold finished and one of its kind.
That last one was fucking gorgeous holy shit
Those are spectacular!!!
Gorgeous
Bergmann: "I want the guns engraved"
Engraver: "Which parts?"
Bergmann: "The whole gun"
Engraver:
I would love to own a modern replica of these pistols and enjoy them on the range
very nice ian.
Incredible
Kasper Lindström jn
Stupid machine! Meant to say I agree wholeheartedly! Fantastic examples of the engravers art.
I'm thinking Lawrance of Arabia style on that first pistol, really nice
beautiful!!
Astonishingly exquisite...
The last one is really cool that it's so pristine but I think the engraving looks a bit more crude on it compared to the ones before.
I know Ian doesn't usually wear gloves when handling these firearms, but I feel they may have been appropriate with these pieces,
If that gun was in Borderlands, the red text would be “Verily, strength lies in archery”
Most gold-plated guns look rather cheesy and in poor taste, but these engraved Bergmanns are real works of art and classy as hell, imo.
It´s the difference between elegant and tacky. Just sticking gold and jewels on to something, doesn´t make it pretty or stylish.
Two examples, seperated by 11 centuries: Carolingian "cabachon" jewelry and Trump tower, despite all the gold, are tacky monstrosities - no matter how much random bling is smeared upon them, they are still hideous eyesores. Hell, it makes them worse... Because it´s such a waste of gold! :D You can´t buy class, as they say x)
How popular were Bergmann pistols in the commercial market?
Suchard is still operative.
i`m actually surprised, they are so old, never knew.
suchard chocolate is quite popular in central europe.
there is an international chocolate company headquartered in my town of oxford, PA called Neuchatel. I wonder if They are related to the inscription. Neuchatel is also a city in Switzerland.
The first gun is engraved in Arabic, الا أن القوه الرمي، it translate to the real strength in shooting, or all strength in accuracy shooting.
We know
Hey Ian, if you wanted to bait in some Battlefield 1 viewers(I don't know if your tired of talking about it), a great idea for a video would be discussing visual modifications to guns by soldiers in the war al a BF1's weapon skin system.
So, did you find this private collector, or did they contact you?
Reviewing all of these Bergmann bc he's tryna' get them as a bf1 dlc gun.
Willy Wonka owned a Bergmann . Who would have known only for Ian .
The fine scrollwork looks English, my first thoughts were engraved for the English market but I wonder if the example with the deeper and dissimilar engraving on the top of the action is part factory engraved (deeper cut 'germanic' on top) and then aftermarket 'fine english' on the rest of the pistol???
But... is this Ian with forgotten weapons?
I know, right? How are we to tell who it is without that intro? In all seriousness, I hope Ian drops that from future videos. He's famous enough now that we don't need reminding!
But...it is his kind of "thing"....if it is in fact Ian...not so sure 'bout that one.
those are amazing. how long would it take to engrave that firearm?
Weeks.
I'd love to hear more about this Middle Eastern order you mentioned, any idea who they were or what they did?
Imagine the man hours involved in that. They must have been quite dear.
Is there going to be a video sometime on the Finnish SMG? The gun considered the best submachine gun of WW2, and copied by the USSR for the PPSH-42? :D
I generally don't like engraving, especially with gold embelishment. It usually looks so gaudy to me. However, these are all actually really nice. Very tastefully done. And that chocolate factory one is absolutely gorgeous!
Beautiful guns. But wouldn't handling them without gloves risk tarnishing them? Would you have to clean them somehow after being handled?
The engraving on the last gun isn’t for the 100th anniversary of the chocolate factory, but for the 100th birthday of the founder of the chocolate factory.
Did the company that made Bergmanns make extended mags for them or were they only one mag size for all pistols.
There were 6 and 8 or 10rd magazines made, nothing higher than that. At least not that Ian's talked about, and I suspect that if a larger magazine was available this collector would have an example.
A fitting end to McCollum's Bergmann period.
Thank's Ian.Well worth a $ a month.
"Jesus Christ is in Heaven now" is still the most appropriate text to engrave into a pistol.
In all seriousness though, these guns are a beautiful kind of art.
A little rewatch.
Do you have a guess at how much that last one is worth? I'm guessing it's quite a lot
you should do a run and gun Bergman vs glock with Vickers tactical it would be hilarious
The apprentice does the screw heads ?
they probably left the top untouched because it is very hard to engrave a concave surfac
Logic would dictate that the fine level of engraving on 3 different manufactured guns would have nothing to do with sales
Doch prima!
WOW!
Whats up Ian
The inscription on the chocolate factory gun looks like it says it's in commemoration of the 100th birthday of the factory's founder, not the 100th anniversary of the factory. Can someone who speaks German better than me confirm this?
Damn Willy Wonka finally had enough and started threatening those kids with a Bergmann