I still remember to this Very Day... when I was new Dwarf Paladin.. Back when it was still Original Classic wow. I was going through Wetlands Headed North to Arathi Highlands... along the way I bumbed into a corpse. Having recently learned my first Resurrection spell I tried it out. A few seconds later this person was standing in front of me and I quote "Thanks my man, you saved me a long Run back." He bowed (first emote I have ever seen) then ran of across the bridge as in-game night-time was falling. That was my First resurrection. Atm even I as a child recognized the potential depth and community that this game had to offer.
Absolutely this is the type of thing that hooked me. I am always seeking that. Sadly in retail, and definitely SoD strangely.. I don’t get that reciprocated as there are so many mindless and ungrateful goblins running about. I find some classic minded folk. I made my own guild to gather up the real ones. Happening upon people about to die, healing them up, helping them finish the fight… I live for that. Then suddenly I have a new friend. I’ve made friends in classic that I still speak to even though we’ve never met face to face, and we feel like real friends. We share memories in wow. It hurts my heart to see people racing around and not minding each other as much in this new classic season. They’re missing the whole point, to just stop and smell the classic.
Yeah, definitely agree man. I remember trying to get my warlock pets and mount in TBC but not being high enough lvl. So I just said stuff it and ran through STV getting one shot by dino's and panthers because the boat in booty bay takes me to Kalimdor. Then I met a hunter along the way and we became friends and he escorted me most of the way. Even just trying to do a dungeon was like, yelling in trade chat "does anyone wana do ST!". Then when you get to the dungeon no one knows what theyre doing or where they are meant to go. So if theres a wipe you shrug it off dont get mad and keep going. I can't remember why I did Sunken Temple but I remember doing it at night, and Sunken Temple itself is pretty dark ambience. Kind of feels like you're actually there. Whereas if you did it today the only thoughts going through your mind is "This is taking too long, why is this guys dps so low, when am I gonna get out of this dungeon"
if you check the google trends, you will notice that actually the biggest downfall trajectory of wow was during wotlk. Shocking I know, but it's true. There are many reasons for that, and one specific is because around 2009 is when the free competitive focused games started to take over the world, like league. It had nothing to do with wow losing it's "magic". If wotlk was that successful and good, then theoretically it should be able to grab a huge audience that love the game and would be eager to play the next expansions, which obviously didn't happen. And even in modern re launch of wotlk, the servers are more dead than classic era, with auction houses barely having more than 100-500 items listed. It's just the sad reality, that blizz didn't kill wow, the audience grew out of it, and blizz didn't try to get new fresh people on the game. Besides blizzcon 2023 offering almost nothing new to the classic community. Retail got 3 expansions announced, it's very clear that blizz invests in retail way more, and they're not stupid, they have the statistics and know what they're doing and what people prefer playing.
agree with everything you said. the most important thing is, time have changed and we grew out of it, since wotlk. people don’t see it, thats why wow is where it is right now.
I have only just started to play Classic (I joined WoW during Battle For Azeroth) & I got to say.... I much prefer Classic. On retail, people are so unnecessarily aggressive. Cant do a M+ dungeon without someone flipping out over a small mistake.. Weirdly enough, when you confront people they get very nervous. The most popular answer I get is "I dont have a lot of time to play so I dont have time for people making mistakes" its like...? If you have limited time to play, why play the one content of the game that requires time to complete? Not only that, on retail if you ask for help for a quest despite it being a full server - you get ignored. There's no social aspect, it's not a MMORPG if people are treating it as a single player game. I consider myself a social butterfly, I love communicating with other people. Started playing Classic & within 5 minutes of the starting zone a high levelled player came over to me and gave me 30G as a help out, I did not even ask for the handout. If one person is an asshole on Classic, a lot of people in the server will know about it and that is what I love the most. There is no tolerance for arrogance, toxicity or just the type of people who say "Your specs crap for DPS you should do -------" and tell you how to play your own class.
sad for the loss of identity :( I totally understand the story of the dwarf escorting you across the world for 30minutes and what that might have been like -- the magic of it and the growth from that experience -- I struggle to recall my own similar experiences because they too were roughed up by changes | if it aint broke don't fix it! |
I remember 16 years ago, that i made a Druid, and wished to level with my best friend. I had to travel trough the wetlands... And those monsters there, if they see a noob, they wish to snack it too. Some higher levels started to escort me. i still remember their names, Sican, Chrisum and maruwi. Now ask me a name from people i met in wow while leveling in the past 8 years... i can't name one.
I never got to experience WoW in the early days, I was playing EQ. I've tried to pick up WoW retail many times but always end up subbing for only a month, 2 tops because like you said, it feels like a single player game. I do however like pvp and am curious what end game pvp is like but idk if I am willing to put in the hours to catch up lol.
I still talk to 2-3 people I met in 2006 on wow. That shit was a living and breathing world where you could role play without even meaning to role play. God damn how I want that to be the design philosophy of modern wow and Diablo.
Hit the nail on the head for the most part. For me the start of the "end" was when they allowed paid server transfer and name changes. Prior to that if you where a dick and ninjad loot, you would get a bad name and nobody would play with you, making the toon worthless. Soon after people could easily justify stealing rare loot and just moving server.
It was a cumulative process, it wasn't "This is WoW" then an expansion dropped and "this isn't WoW anymore". Every expansion chipped away at some aspect of the original game creating a Ship of Theseus scenario. Even TBC did it.
MMOs are so bad right now that people think it's fun to play a game more than a decade old. Tells you a lot about the state of the genre. As a WoW player from 2004-2011, I cannot go back to spending 50% of my play time just traveling from one place to the next. I tried going back to Classic three times, but just getting to level 10 made me want to gouge out my own eyeballs with a searing spoon. No way in hell I'm spending that much time grinding through boring ass old repetitive content for....nothing I haven't already experienced.
they game play was far better as was the community,ive stopped playing wow until classic arrived and was there on launch with (haha) no login issues,vanilla was for any player weather it be casual or pvp everything was a proper challenge which gave questlines a real sence of char lvling and the first mount was massive @ lvl 40 but the money had to be used with caution or you couldnt afford new spells,talents was far easier for me a far better game than retail,hitting lvl 60 was mind blowing as i wasnt much od a pvp person and loved the questing(grind)
I gotta disagree with the sever merging being a problem. I played daily when MoP dropped and I remember me and my friends who played being happy we didn’t need to pay for server changes anymore. Also low servers are problem in classic as we speak and some people want merging again lol
I didnt even play WoW as a kid. Played retail, loved it. Bought Shadowlands, then quit retail and swapped to classic. The only thing I miss about retail is the group finder. I dont like talking to players, theyre assholes.
Life took me away from Classic launch in December 2019. Have not been there, but hear stories of dead servers with 1 or no lvl 60s online. Is there any good Server with decent number of people , while not being toxic like Retail in 2022?
people don't want to socialize online. Meeting new people online as much fun as it sounds, it's really an outdated concept already. People now got social media to scratch that itch, nobody cares meeting a loser in a game online really. Retail didn't kill the community, people in general became less social compared to back in 2004. + being in a guild is just so inconvenient. Why would I ever want to find a guild and have programmed days of the week for raids, when all I want is to do the raids whenever I feel like? A lot of people feel that way, and it's exactly why puggin is so popular, because people prefer it, shocking, right? xD
Pandaria as a game may have been ok but yeah the kung fu panda thing looked dumb. They should have just added another human faction of a different more asian culture
As humans, we literally depend on socialization to be happy. With too much QoL, resulting in lack of depending on other people, socialization goes down, and our value in the game depletes. Now look at the direction of how our world is going....
I absolutely agree with the video maker. I played from cataclysm to war for azeroth and every time blizzard NERF the HELL ot of the game. ( Sorry for shouting). But they do beta is all ways better especially with, Wow. They've wantanly taken the fun out. Anyway 🐈 was the first version and for me the best. Didn't mean to rant but it's so annoying Blizzard would do this.
I like that they are going more of a you can play it like a singleplayer,its cool that you met new people and joined on discord and played together but i dont wanna have to meet online people just to be able to complete the game i wanna run around and play the game alone or maybe with a friend that i actually know in person
Then Massively Multiplayer Online games might not be what ya lookin for. I kno what you mean but still, you wanna play a Massively Multiplayer Game alone or with one friend.
The mainstreaming of WOW is another sign of the mainstreaming and ruination of video games. I'm not against making games slightly easier e.g. I love current retail FFXI, but don't make a game so dumbed down that it's not even a journey anymore. I've not actually played much of WOW, but I'm gonna go ahead and play Classic when I do because I want a challenge.
but as i get it classic doesn't have many good DLC's/expansion's retail has? if so they should change it give classic all the same stories/continent retail has
So make the game again? We already have retail let's not. Classic+ is what I think you mean. New content for the Classic era but not the same content as retail. Retail's storyline makes no sense and is shit.
"raids in classic are not as puggable" how can you even say that . Mythic raids require a guild , you cant do it with pugs ,classic raids however, can all be pugged. If you are going to compare vanilla "epic gear"(highest ilvl gear) you should compare it with the retail highest ilvl gear and how difficult it is to obtain.
The Community inside of guilds is the same as in classic. You just need to join a proper one and not some massguild. For some reason ppl decide to play the game in the worst possible way... pugs. Pugged for over a year before joining a guild.. my god what a dreadful experience.
I disagree with your reasoning. Though the charm of adventuring with friends and having a closer knit server community is charming and fun. The reason I think WoW classic, or vanilla WoW specifically, is better than retail is because vanilla is better than every expansion made, full stop. Not because vanilla has the best mechanics, it doesn't. Not because it has the best content, it doesn't. It's because it is the only version of the game that has internal cohesion. Even though vanilla has a lot of level specific zones, level specific mobs and such, it is the only version of the game where almost every piece of content is relevant. But when TBC came and onwards the world of warcraft has become larger in concept but smaller in meaningful content. In vanilla, when you reach max level you have so many places to go to, and things to do. In TBC you had 2. Netherstorm and Shadowmoon valley. The rest are just places to go to for dungeons and raids. The world became smaller. WoTLK had 4, which is better but now even less of the game is viable. TBC and Vanilla are both made into level grinds where you skip the entirety of the meaning of the content there. Today's WoW gives you a very open world to explore, level up and enjoy the content made throughout the years. Alone or with friends. With a vast amount of social objects and abilities to play around with friends and random players. Helping you make new stories and experiences with the game. But there's a caveat to that. Any older content you play will be skewed by having the older expansion mechanics entirely scrapped and wiped clean from the game world. Making your experience with the game world a bit awkward when interacting with these old relics of by-gone mechanics. But then you reach a point where you are 10 levels below max. Suddenly you are whisked away from whatever grand adventure you had and into your faction's capital. Everything that you have done so far is now obsolete and you must now go and experience the new expansion. Forget about 20 or so years of content. Forget about the vast and deep world you experienced until now. No, you must now go on an urgent quest in a tiny island or archipelago on a distant part of the world or somewhere between realms. Will you be able to come back and adventure through the lands of Azeroth? No... not really. If you want, just make a new character. Maybe next time pause your XP gains and lock yourself out from the latest content. And here lies the problem. Even today, where you have Chromie to allow you to experience the world and its history in it's entirety, you are still locked from either whatever is new, or everything else. What's the point in having this ginormous world with more than 34,000 quests filled with sometimes bland sometimes epic tales, when you are then thrown out to do around 30 main quests and 50 repeating world quests and a few instances where you go in with a group of people that simply do this for a specific drop and then restart if they don't get it?! What's so great about this system?!?! Levels in games are simply made to help ease players into new game mechanics, they shouldn't be made to gate the players to specific designs of the game, disregarding anything that came before. Otherwise what is the point in the game? You can have a game like the binding of isaac, having a very specific and singular game mechanic throughout the game, and yet that game is replayed for hours on end since 2011!!! How come singleplayer games with much less content can be so much deep and entertaining than 20 odd years of MMO game design?!?! In conclusion. If Blizzard would've granted the players the freedom to enjoy every bit of the game world they made, both the love of wanderlust and the community will return. Especially when you give players a reason to go on foot from the jungles of stranglethorn, through the darkness of dusk wood into stormwind and then to the vast expanse of northrend and then into the dragon isles. That would make a lovely adventure for anyone!
The thing I dont like with retail WoW is that classes dont have any real identity. No need for buffs. Warriors can self heal more than a paladin etc... And I feel the pvp in retail isnt as exciting s Classic or tbc imo.
Community was all on our server. New WoW just doesn't hack it. Cross server PUGs destroyed the intimacy of the experience and server identity. Retail WoW is made for kids who got trophies for playing in the grass during soccer. Really really great video, even though it was made by Alliance pond scum. Just kidding. For the Horde!
Always love to see the community argument, there's nothing worse to back up your claim than to say "my community is better". Not only is it the most subjective thing ever but it can't be proven either.
CRZ, guild levels and perks, atrocious reworked talent system from MoP onwards, scaling everything, too many difficulties, too much focus on esports and streaming in game design (look at how a retail dungeon is designed and then look at how a classic dungeon is designed) and a whole host of other shit. Retail is a TERRIBLE game, and is flat out not an MMO or RPG anymore. Classic is very flawed but it's 1000x better than retail.
Couldn’t agree anymore✔️ it’s seems like you have to pve to pvp now as well. I’ve seen more mythic geared players in pvp that I have ever my entire wow career. With Woltk classic expansion coming soon I might say WoW classic might take the stand. Dragonflight supposedly will have no level cap increase which will be a killer downfall.
I disagree but, I doubt any one would care as to why. Just incase I am wrong about that, I will go head and Elaborate. The difference in the amount of time it takes to reach max level is a big one. For your first character, Leveling up Probably should take a while. I can't help but feel like maybe 300 hours is a bit much. I mean, People have work (Sometimes) People have school (Also sometimes) people need to maintain social networks,. (Sometimes) Forcing people to play 300 Hours just to get to "End game" content, Is not it. Compared to Retail, If you boost, you will have literally no idea what is going on. If you take the road to level up, you can probably do it in a week. after you hit max level, Heirlooms help the process of leveling another character along. In Classic, Das gunna be another subscription fee fam. PvP has all ways been Horrible. What makes the PvP Horrible is not only how One sided the PvP is but, How dependent on gear everything is. It doesn't matter if you and the Opponent has the exact same Gear, except they have a slightly better ring because, that slightly better ring is causing them to hit you 8K DPS harder then you hit them. Its gear based, not skill based and that is why its terrible. It doesn't Fvor skill it favors gear. "hahahah ring to Brrrrrrrrrr" What is worse, PvP gear is worse then PvE Gear at PvP. Servers merging was probably the best thing to ever happen to WoW. I say that because I have been Bestowed infinite knowledge. "The community so great" No, the community was terrible. If you don't believe me. Go to Wayfarers Rest on Moon Guard and get into some drama. Better Yet, in Classic, Say the wrong thing in trade chat, a Political Opinion, Get into a debate in trade chat about who the biggest whore on the server is. Oh, well, You just insinuated a raid leaders girlfriend fucked the whole 40 player Molten Core raid group. Welp, Have fun playing Level Up Treadmill, Retard. Go a head, Apologize. Gamers are petty by nature. We don't want an Apology, We want you gone, Permanently. Even making an Alt won't fix it because if we find out who you are, You're going to be blacklisted from raids. If we even think a player is you, that player is blacklisted from raids. The first time since the change? I played on Kil'Jeaden and people were Dueling outside the Gates of Orgrimmar Up till WoD where people just farmed the shit out of their Garrison or spent all day in Ashran. Guilds were terrible. Its the same situation with Reputation and having a Bad reputation with the wrong people. I have been Pugging Heroics since Cataclysm. Heroic Raids don't feel punishing because there have been a lack of new mechanics in WoW for more then a Decade. Its a Matter of the players getting Better not the game getting Worse. And Vanilla was not hard at all, People just didn't know how to play the game. Current Day, Molten Core fell in like 2 hours with a Large chunk of the Raid being Under leveled and under geared. BWL went down in just 45 minutes. The game was not challenging in the slightest, The community just did not know how to deal with the mechanics effectively back then. If you think WoW is designed to be single player, Turn Warmode on as a single player and roam. Watch in Amazement as you get 1V20 hard camped for 4 and a half hours at which point you Alt F4 and go to bed because fuck this single player game. try to solo a raid in this single player game. Its not a single player game. The closest WoW ever came to being single player was in WoD and even then, Those guilds made it NOT a single player game. You can play the game Solo if you choose. I think I prefer that then Making a joke and being forced to play "Level Up Treadmill" or Permanently unsubbing . The issue with WoW is, It hasn't changed at all. All of the "Changes" have been Quality of life. From Allowing Low-Population servers to Actually fucking raid. By helping the leveling Process because No one wants to Dedicate 300 hours to leveling up a character you might log into for a couple hours a week. Warmode Exists because people don't like being Forced into PvP, Much less against some one in Mythic Gear that is also 83 levels above them. LFR exists because It was fucking stupid to sit there and spam Trade chat for 3 and a half hours for a single fucking tank, Only to get a tank and, Oh a healer has to leave, Having waited 3 hours, every one else leaves because they got fucking tired of waiting. That was a common thing to happen even if you were in a guild. Its the reason that Add-on's like Recount and Auctioneer are so popular. Its useful Not only to know how much DPS you deal so you can math out your highest DPS rotation and practice it properly. But, you also know, Who is AFK auto attacking. I.E. Who isn't pulling their weight. The big thing about classic is, After you're done with Molten Core m BWL, AQ 10&40 And Onyxia's Lair.. What next? Only path remaining is classic TBC. then Classic Wrath. Classic Cataclysm. Classic WoD. Classic Legion. Classic BFA. Classic Shadowlands. then Classic what ever comes after shadowlands. and Classic what ever comes after that. and Classic what ever comes after that. The issue is, the game hasn't change at all in its entire 16 year run. Its not even gotten "Easier" players are just getting better at the game.
So the game shouldn't reward people who put time into it because people who don't wanna spend that time feel left out. Basically why do anything ever? Takes time some people don't have and would feel left out. Sweet poor baby... We can't have fun because you don't have time to join in... Fuck you!
@@86Corvus nah, he has a point. If you want to no life the game there are plenty of items and and objectives you can sink hundreds of hours into grinding, but just to reach endgame shouldn't be multi month journey for someone with a family/job. That's how you lose players
@@TDR-0484 "That's how you lose players." During which time the game was at its most popular, and after changing that aspect dramatically, has been nose-diving player counts ever since. Seems legit? The point to a lot of people is quite literally the journey. The overwhelming majority of Classic players are people with family, work, etc. but clearly, that should be impossible, because that's how you lose players, right?
Classic is certainly a better game. Not on the level of graphics or convenience. The game is better because the core systems all matter. Skill training matters, crafting matters, enchants matter. I could go on and on. Bag space matters, food and drink matter, how you approach combat certainly matters. If you really stop and think about it... what matters in retail? There is no point in crafting, everything you are given in the world trumps anything you can make. Enchants do not matter in retail because let's face it... you are going to replace that gear in a few minutes anyway. Then, there is the social aspect. It doesn't matter if you are a jerk all the time. The game is basically single player anyway. Troll whoever, behave however, say whatever and progression remains constant. Retail tries to give you that feeling of accomplishment constantly. Not just in the fact that you actually accomplished anything but more in the participation certificate form of achievement. You were there, so you win! Here is your prize. The level of skill or preparation in retail is just not a thing. Mash a few buttons, bring whatever, use whatever... boom, you win. Pull the level, smile and move on. In the end, what you are truly left with is a feeling of emptiness. The world, while full just feels empty. Like walking through a wax museum. All of the things are there, you can see them... but nothing really does anything. Classic leaves you with that full meal feeling. Retail leaves you with that constantly snacking on junk food feeling. I am not saying that if you prefer retail that your some shallow bad person who just wants free everything. What I am saying is... people who genuinely want to experience the world and what the game has to offer prefer a slower pace, giving more thought to the small details, forming closer bond with fellow players and having time to make those choices.
"In retail wow blizzard has really forced the player to feel lile they're playing a single player game" Yes and i absolutely love how is it a bad thing that WOW is more single player friendly now more than ever when i started playing in 2006 i always despised the fact that guilds were forced upon you amd you had to join one
First of all and before all my rant, despite everything im going to say i agree with you that classic is better game but i play retail for competition just like you, but the thing is; -Orc racial is too op and too RNG -There is people climbing in almost every building in battlegrounds its anoying -There is a lot of drama in the guilds (if someone dont believe me you aint playing classic, am i wrong?) -You end up farming the same raid all the year to help your guildmates or yourself to get gear, literally, the whole year farming the same single raid -That it has not mechanics -If you are not in one of those superpopulated servers you are in risk and afraid of your server might die all the time -Competitive pvp is just not there, i dont enjoy gank other people that dont want to pvp the whole day, or join in battlegrounds with retards. In conclussion for me, and im not going to say only problems but also my "solutions"; There should be a WoW Classic Remaster. and blizzard should make us vote for what we want to see there. From:
-Maybe some want Transmogs in classic (like me, its just an opinion) -No climbing allowed in battlegrounds -Make the orc racial balanced, maybe 15% of stun time reduction or something so the comptetitive players are not going to be all Horde-Orcs -Add better loot system for raids, something new and fair, so people dont end up in corrupted guilds that keep the loot for their friends -Better auction house system ffs -And i dont know? you name it, but we can all agree that we can make a 15 years old game better and refreshing for this modern times What do you think Palumor?
Yeah you bring up some really good points. There are definitely a lot of flaws with Classic. Coming from myself who played OSRS and maxed out I can say it was nice playing the old version of the game cleaned up by updates. I definitely got burnt out Classic fast after hitting 60 for the reasons you listed so you’re absolutely right. I am not certain about the solution but I think both games have their own unique pros and cons.
Just gonna say that discord wasn't used for raiding back in the day it was vent
Agreed. Remember buying a license for my guild to use. The good old days
I still remember to this Very Day... when I was new Dwarf Paladin.. Back when it was still Original Classic wow. I was going through Wetlands Headed North to Arathi Highlands... along the way I bumbed into a corpse. Having recently learned my first Resurrection spell I tried it out.
A few seconds later this person was standing in front of me and I quote "Thanks my man, you saved me a long Run back."
He bowed (first emote I have ever seen) then ran of across the bridge as in-game night-time was falling.
That was my First resurrection. Atm even I as a child recognized the potential depth and community that this game had to offer.
Absolutely this is the type of thing that hooked me. I am always seeking that. Sadly in retail, and definitely SoD strangely.. I don’t get that reciprocated as there are so many mindless and ungrateful goblins running about. I find some classic minded folk. I made my own guild to gather up the real ones.
Happening upon people about to die, healing them up, helping them finish the fight… I live for that. Then suddenly I have a new friend. I’ve made friends in classic that I still speak to even though we’ve never met face to face, and we feel like real friends. We share memories in wow. It hurts my heart to see people racing around and not minding each other as much in this new classic season. They’re missing the whole point, to just stop and smell the classic.
Yeah, definitely agree man. I remember trying to get my warlock pets and mount in TBC but not being high enough lvl. So I just said stuff it and ran through STV getting one shot by dino's and panthers because the boat in booty bay takes me to Kalimdor. Then I met a hunter along the way and we became friends and he escorted me most of the way.
Even just trying to do a dungeon was like, yelling in trade chat "does anyone wana do ST!". Then when you get to the dungeon no one knows what theyre doing or where they are meant to go. So if theres a wipe you shrug it off dont get mad and keep going. I can't remember why I did Sunken Temple but I remember doing it at night, and Sunken Temple itself is pretty dark ambience. Kind of feels like you're actually there. Whereas if you did it today the only thoughts going through your mind is "This is taking too long, why is this guys dps so low, when am I gonna get out of this dungeon"
I only play classic. Never checked out the new expansion but I watch this cuz I love the content lol
As a new wow player, I started playing wow classic SoM today and I am enjoying it a lot.
good choice, stay away from retail, its shit, classic is where is at.
Plus there was no level scaling so the world actually feels dangerous
if you check the google trends, you will notice that actually the biggest downfall trajectory of wow was during wotlk. Shocking I know, but it's true.
There are many reasons for that, and one specific is because around 2009 is when the free competitive focused games started to take over the world, like league.
It had nothing to do with wow losing it's "magic". If wotlk was that successful and good, then theoretically it should be able to grab a huge audience that love the game and would be eager to play the next expansions, which obviously didn't happen.
And even in modern re launch of wotlk, the servers are more dead than classic era, with auction houses barely having more than 100-500 items listed.
It's just the sad reality, that blizz didn't kill wow, the audience grew out of it, and blizz didn't try to get new fresh people on the game.
Besides blizzcon 2023 offering almost nothing new to the classic community.
Retail got 3 expansions announced, it's very clear that blizz invests in retail way more, and they're not stupid, they have the statistics and know what they're doing and what people prefer playing.
agree with everything you said. the most important thing is, time have changed and we grew out of it, since wotlk. people don’t see it, thats why wow is where it is right now.
I have only just started to play Classic (I joined WoW during Battle For Azeroth) & I got to say.... I much prefer Classic.
On retail, people are so unnecessarily aggressive. Cant do a M+ dungeon without someone flipping out over a small mistake.. Weirdly enough, when you confront people they get very nervous. The most popular answer I get is "I dont have a lot of time to play so I dont have time for people making mistakes" its like...? If you have limited time to play, why play the one content of the game that requires time to complete? Not only that, on retail if you ask for help for a quest despite it being a full server - you get ignored. There's no social aspect, it's not a MMORPG if people are treating it as a single player game.
I consider myself a social butterfly, I love communicating with other people. Started playing Classic & within 5 minutes of the starting zone a high levelled player came over to me and gave me 30G as a help out, I did not even ask for the handout. If one person is an asshole on Classic, a lot of people in the server will know about it and that is what I love the most. There is no tolerance for arrogance, toxicity or just the type of people who say "Your specs crap for DPS you should do -------" and tell you how to play your own class.
100% agree i started in retail,started playing classics havnt been back to retail in over 8 months .
sad for the loss of identity :( I totally understand the story of the dwarf escorting you across the world for 30minutes and what that might have been like -- the magic of it and the growth from that experience -- I struggle to recall my own similar experiences because they too were roughed up by changes | if it aint broke don't fix it! |
I remember 16 years ago, that i made a Druid, and wished to level with my best friend. I had to travel trough the wetlands... And those monsters there, if they see a noob, they wish to snack it too. Some higher levels started to escort me. i still remember their names, Sican, Chrisum and maruwi. Now ask me a name from people i met in wow while leveling in the past 8 years... i can't name one.
I never got to experience WoW in the early days, I was playing EQ. I've tried to pick up WoW retail many times but always end up subbing for only a month, 2 tops because like you said, it feels like a single player game. I do however like pvp and am curious what end game pvp is like but idk if I am willing to put in the hours to catch up lol.
I still talk to 2-3 people I met in 2006 on wow. That shit was a living and breathing world where you could role play without even meaning to role play. God damn how I want that to be the design philosophy of modern wow and Diablo.
Absolutely agree with every point You made in this video. Great job
Right on. Thanks :)
Hit the nail on the head for the most part.
For me the start of the "end" was when they allowed paid server transfer and name changes. Prior to that if you where a dick and ninjad loot, you would get a bad name and nobody would play with you, making the toon worthless.
Soon after people could easily justify stealing rare loot and just moving server.
Server identity is huge. I always liked playing on low pop servers with consistent amount of players.
This video will hit every expansion man.
It was a cumulative process, it wasn't "This is WoW" then an expansion dropped and "this isn't WoW anymore". Every expansion chipped away at some aspect of the original game creating a Ship of Theseus scenario. Even TBC did it.
I still remember my first guild back in vanilla wow.
MMOs are so bad right now that people think it's fun to play a game more than a decade old. Tells you a lot about the state of the genre. As a WoW player from 2004-2011, I cannot go back to spending 50% of my play time just traveling from one place to the next. I tried going back to Classic three times, but just getting to level 10 made me want to gouge out my own eyeballs with a searing spoon. No way in hell I'm spending that much time grinding through boring ass old repetitive content for....nothing I haven't already experienced.
this..this exactly my mindset
they game play was far better as was the community,ive stopped playing wow until classic arrived and was there on launch with (haha) no login issues,vanilla was for any player weather it be casual or pvp everything was a proper challenge which gave questlines a real sence of char lvling and the first mount was massive @ lvl 40 but the money had to be used with caution or you couldnt afford new spells,talents was far easier for me a far better game than retail,hitting lvl 60 was mind blowing as i wasnt much od a pvp person and loved the questing(grind)
I gotta disagree with the sever merging being a problem. I played daily when MoP dropped and I remember me and my friends who played being happy we didn’t need to pay for server changes anymore. Also low servers are problem in classic as we speak and some people want merging again lol
Except when they added tokens into classic it made it worthless to me, may as well do retail
I didnt even play WoW as a kid. Played retail, loved it. Bought Shadowlands, then quit retail and swapped to classic. The only thing I miss about retail is the group finder. I dont like talking to players, theyre assholes.
Life took me away from Classic launch in December 2019. Have not been there, but hear stories of dead servers with 1 or no lvl 60s online.
Is there any good Server with decent number of people , while not being toxic like Retail in 2022?
This ^
AGREED! The community was FANTASTIC!
enjoyed the video i'm new to wow ingeneral and wanted to start from the beggining in classic would love to make some friends as you did
people don't want to socialize online. Meeting new people online as much fun as it sounds, it's really an outdated concept already. People now got social media to scratch that itch, nobody cares meeting a loser in a game online really.
Retail didn't kill the community, people in general became less social compared to back in 2004.
+ being in a guild is just so inconvenient. Why would I ever want to find a guild and have programmed days of the week for raids, when all I want is to do the raids whenever I feel like? A lot of people feel that way, and it's exactly why puggin is so popular, because people prefer it, shocking, right? xD
Pandaria as a game may have been ok but yeah the kung fu panda thing looked dumb. They should have just added another human faction of a different more asian culture
That thumbnail is super misleading though since the great sub drop started already in mid-Cata 😂
I agree 100%, but all those friends you made in Classic are now abandoned since you only play retail?
The worst: They do this server merge thing for Classic now, too.
Classic is the best. It's a better and complete game. I love it. SL bore me fast
They got rid of the cool casting sound effects from classic. What was once a a satisfying “bang” became a pathetic “splat.”
As humans, we literally depend on socialization to be happy. With too much QoL, resulting in lack of depending on other people, socialization goes down, and our value in the game depletes.
Now look at the direction of how our world is going....
I absolutely agree with the video maker. I played from cataclysm to war for azeroth and every time blizzard NERF the HELL ot of the game. ( Sorry for shouting). But they do beta is all ways better especially with, Wow. They've wantanly taken the fun out. Anyway 🐈 was the first version and for me the best. Didn't mean to rant but it's so annoying Blizzard would do this.
Phasing destroy the game for me. Happy to see classic :D
I like that they are going more of a you can play it like a singleplayer,its cool that you met new people and joined on discord and played together but i dont wanna have to meet online people just to be able to complete the game i wanna run around and play the game alone or maybe with a friend that i actually know in person
Then Massively Multiplayer Online games might not be what ya lookin for. I kno what you mean but still, you wanna play a Massively Multiplayer Game alone or with one friend.
The mainstreaming of WOW is another sign of the mainstreaming and ruination of video games. I'm not against making games slightly easier e.g. I love current retail FFXI, but don't make a game so dumbed down that it's not even a journey anymore. I've not actually played much of WOW, but I'm gonna go ahead and play Classic when I do because I want a challenge.
What about gdkp runs, you literally don’t need a guild in classic to progress however you need community that’s true
You don’t progress in GDKPs lol. GDKP is one shot groups
but as i get it classic doesn't have many good DLC's/expansion's retail has? if so they should change it give classic all the same stories/continent retail has
So make the game again? We already have retail let's not. Classic+ is what I think you mean. New content for the Classic era but not the same content as retail. Retail's storyline makes no sense and is shit.
@@Kilroy098 ok, sins i haven't played it i don't know that much about it
@@ShadowWizard It's not a thing yet just what everyone is hoping for.
"raids in classic are not as puggable" how can you even say that . Mythic raids require a guild , you cant do it with pugs ,classic raids however, can all be pugged. If you are going to compare vanilla "epic gear"(highest ilvl gear) you should compare it with the retail highest ilvl gear and how difficult it is to obtain.
I agree or disagree
The Community inside of guilds is the same as in classic. You just need to join a proper one and not some massguild. For some reason ppl decide to play the game in the worst possible way... pugs. Pugged for over a year before joining a guild.. my god what a dreadful experience.
I disagree with your reasoning. Though the charm of adventuring with friends and having a closer knit server community is charming and fun. The reason I think WoW classic, or vanilla WoW specifically, is better than retail is because vanilla is better than every expansion made, full stop.
Not because vanilla has the best mechanics, it doesn't. Not because it has the best content, it doesn't. It's because it is the only version of the game that has internal cohesion. Even though vanilla has a lot of level specific zones, level specific mobs and such, it is the only version of the game where almost every piece of content is relevant. But when TBC came and onwards the world of warcraft has become larger in concept but smaller in meaningful content.
In vanilla, when you reach max level you have so many places to go to, and things to do. In TBC you had 2. Netherstorm and Shadowmoon valley. The rest are just places to go to for dungeons and raids. The world became smaller. WoTLK had 4, which is better but now even less of the game is viable. TBC and Vanilla are both made into level grinds where you skip the entirety of the meaning of the content there.
Today's WoW gives you a very open world to explore, level up and enjoy the content made throughout the years. Alone or with friends. With a vast amount of social objects and abilities to play around with friends and random players. Helping you make new stories and experiences with the game. But there's a caveat to that. Any older content you play will be skewed by having the older expansion mechanics entirely scrapped and wiped clean from the game world. Making your experience with the game world a bit awkward when interacting with these old relics of by-gone mechanics.
But then you reach a point where you are 10 levels below max. Suddenly you are whisked away from whatever grand adventure you had and into your faction's capital. Everything that you have done so far is now obsolete and you must now go and experience the new expansion. Forget about 20 or so years of content. Forget about the vast and deep world you experienced until now. No, you must now go on an urgent quest in a tiny island or archipelago on a distant part of the world or somewhere between realms. Will you be able to come back and adventure through the lands of Azeroth? No... not really. If you want, just make a new character. Maybe next time pause your XP gains and lock yourself out from the latest content.
And here lies the problem. Even today, where you have Chromie to allow you to experience the world and its history in it's entirety, you are still locked from either whatever is new, or everything else. What's the point in having this ginormous world with more than 34,000 quests filled with sometimes bland sometimes epic tales, when you are then thrown out to do around 30 main quests and 50 repeating world quests and a few instances where you go in with a group of people that simply do this for a specific drop and then restart if they don't get it?! What's so great about this system?!?!
Levels in games are simply made to help ease players into new game mechanics, they shouldn't be made to gate the players to specific designs of the game, disregarding anything that came before. Otherwise what is the point in the game? You can have a game like the binding of isaac, having a very specific and singular game mechanic throughout the game, and yet that game is replayed for hours on end since 2011!!! How come singleplayer games with much less content can be so much deep and entertaining than 20 odd years of MMO game design?!?!
In conclusion. If Blizzard would've granted the players the freedom to enjoy every bit of the game world they made, both the love of wanderlust and the community will return. Especially when you give players a reason to go on foot from the jungles of stranglethorn, through the darkness of dusk wood into stormwind and then to the vast expanse of northrend and then into the dragon isles. That would make a lovely adventure for anyone!
Ummm I wouldn't want to do everything all over again if I already did it once
The thing I dont like with retail WoW is that classes dont have any real identity. No need for buffs. Warriors can self heal more than a paladin etc...
And I feel the pvp in retail isnt as exciting s Classic or tbc imo.
Oh ofc mana resource imo useless, first aid gone, no more buff, etc
Lies. Warrior def does NOT heal more than paladin on retail. Literally lost brain cells reading that. SMH.
@@kelizod7925 they should do 0 heal.
I think gold scaling has been ruined now as well. 500 gold used to be respectable and now you can get thousands of gold every hour
This aged like milk 😂
It doesnt feel as fun as it was... Now in bfa and shadowlands i never spend more than 2-300 hrs in the endgame and got bored AF
Using this as a fallacy for my college homework lol. I’m so tired
Yeah the community aspect just died in wow retail. Wow as a single player game is awful, it's better with friends and guilds.
Totally agree mate :)
People dont form social groups unless its beneficial... And blizz removed all the benefit of forming such a group.
Quality content papa
You said Blizzard... You meant Activision.
Community was all on our server. New WoW just doesn't hack it. Cross server PUGs destroyed the intimacy of the experience and server identity.
Retail WoW is made for kids who got trophies for playing in the grass during soccer.
Really really great video, even though it was made by Alliance pond scum. Just kidding.
For the Horde!
Always love to see the community argument, there's nothing worse to back up your claim than to say "my community is better". Not only is it the most subjective thing ever but it can't be proven either.
Retail > Classic, always
Classic Andy video
Retail does suck tho
CRZ, guild levels and perks, atrocious reworked talent system from MoP onwards, scaling everything, too many difficulties, too much focus on esports and streaming in game design (look at how a retail dungeon is designed and then look at how a classic dungeon is designed) and a whole host of other shit.
Retail is a TERRIBLE game, and is flat out not an MMO or RPG anymore. Classic is very flawed but it's 1000x better than retail.
I think they're definitely almost isolated games at this point as well!
Couldn’t agree anymore✔️ it’s seems like you have to pve to pvp now as well. I’ve seen more mythic geared players in pvp that I have ever my entire wow career. With Woltk classic expansion coming soon I might say WoW classic might take the stand. Dragonflight supposedly will have no level cap increase which will be a killer downfall.
Yea cause not being able to play on the server you want to is being better to being able to play on any server you want on retail right?
Facts.
this entire video is just one long whine.
Pandaria. Quit. Exactly. Till Cata it was great.
I disagree but, I doubt any one would care as to why. Just incase I am wrong about that, I will go head and Elaborate.
The difference in the amount of time it takes to reach max level is a big one. For your first character, Leveling up Probably should take a while. I can't help but feel like maybe 300 hours is a bit much. I mean, People have work (Sometimes) People have school (Also sometimes) people need to maintain social networks,. (Sometimes) Forcing people to play 300 Hours just to get to "End game" content, Is not it. Compared to Retail, If you boost, you will have literally no idea what is going on. If you take the road to level up, you can probably do it in a week. after you hit max level, Heirlooms help the process of leveling another character along. In Classic, Das gunna be another subscription fee fam.
PvP has all ways been Horrible. What makes the PvP Horrible is not only how One sided the PvP is but, How dependent on gear everything is. It doesn't matter if you and the Opponent has the exact same Gear, except they have a slightly better ring because, that slightly better ring is causing them to hit you 8K DPS harder then you hit them. Its gear based, not skill based and that is why its terrible. It doesn't Fvor skill it favors gear. "hahahah ring to Brrrrrrrrrr" What is worse, PvP gear is worse then PvE Gear at PvP.
Servers merging was probably the best thing to ever happen to WoW. I say that because I have been Bestowed infinite knowledge. "The community so great" No, the community was terrible. If you don't believe me. Go to Wayfarers Rest on Moon Guard and get into some drama. Better Yet, in Classic, Say the wrong thing in trade chat, a Political Opinion, Get into a debate in trade chat about who the biggest whore on the server is. Oh, well, You just insinuated a raid leaders girlfriend fucked the whole 40 player Molten Core raid group. Welp, Have fun playing Level Up Treadmill, Retard. Go a head, Apologize. Gamers are petty by nature. We don't want an Apology, We want you gone, Permanently. Even making an Alt won't fix it because if we find out who you are, You're going to be blacklisted from raids. If we even think a player is you, that player is blacklisted from raids.
The first time since the change? I played on Kil'Jeaden and people were Dueling outside the Gates of Orgrimmar Up till WoD where people just farmed the shit out of their Garrison or spent all day in Ashran.
Guilds were terrible. Its the same situation with Reputation and having a Bad reputation with the wrong people. I have been Pugging Heroics since Cataclysm. Heroic Raids don't feel punishing because there have been a lack of new mechanics in WoW for more then a Decade. Its a Matter of the players getting Better not the game getting Worse. And Vanilla was not hard at all, People just didn't know how to play the game. Current Day, Molten Core fell in like 2 hours with a Large chunk of the Raid being Under leveled and under geared. BWL went down in just 45 minutes. The game was not challenging in the slightest, The community just did not know how to deal with the mechanics effectively back then.
If you think WoW is designed to be single player, Turn Warmode on as a single player and roam. Watch in Amazement as you get 1V20 hard camped for 4 and a half hours at which point you Alt F4 and go to bed because fuck this single player game. try to solo a raid in this single player game. Its not a single player game. The closest WoW ever came to being single player was in WoD and even then, Those guilds made it NOT a single player game. You can play the game Solo if you choose. I think I prefer that then Making a joke and being forced to play "Level Up Treadmill" or Permanently unsubbing .
The issue with WoW is, It hasn't changed at all. All of the "Changes" have been Quality of life. From Allowing Low-Population servers to Actually fucking raid. By helping the leveling Process because No one wants to Dedicate 300 hours to leveling up a character you might log into for a couple hours a week. Warmode Exists because people don't like being Forced into PvP, Much less against some one in Mythic Gear that is also 83 levels above them. LFR exists because It was fucking stupid to sit there and spam Trade chat for 3 and a half hours for a single fucking tank, Only to get a tank and, Oh a healer has to leave, Having waited 3 hours, every one else leaves because they got fucking tired of waiting. That was a common thing to happen even if you were in a guild. Its the reason that Add-on's like Recount and Auctioneer are so popular. Its useful Not only to know how much DPS you deal so you can math out your highest DPS rotation and practice it properly. But, you also know, Who is AFK auto attacking. I.E. Who isn't pulling their weight.
The big thing about classic is, After you're done with Molten Core m BWL, AQ 10&40 And Onyxia's Lair.. What next? Only path remaining is classic TBC. then Classic Wrath. Classic Cataclysm. Classic WoD. Classic Legion. Classic BFA. Classic Shadowlands. then Classic what ever comes after shadowlands. and Classic what ever comes after that. and Classic what ever comes after that.
The issue is, the game hasn't change at all in its entire 16 year run. Its not even gotten "Easier" players are just getting better at the game.
Appreciate your opinions. :)
@@Palumor I appreciate the video. ^.^
So the game shouldn't reward people who put time into it because people who don't wanna spend that time feel left out. Basically why do anything ever? Takes time some people don't have and would feel left out. Sweet poor baby... We can't have fun because you don't have time to join in... Fuck you!
@@86Corvus nah, he has a point. If you want to no life the game there are plenty of items and and objectives you can sink hundreds of hours into grinding, but just to reach endgame shouldn't be multi month journey for someone with a family/job. That's how you lose players
@@TDR-0484 "That's how you lose players." During which time the game was at its most popular, and after changing that aspect dramatically, has been nose-diving player counts ever since. Seems legit?
The point to a lot of people is quite literally the journey. The overwhelming majority of Classic players are people with family, work, etc. but clearly, that should be impossible, because that's how you lose players, right?
Classic is certainly a better game. Not on the level of graphics or convenience. The game is better because the core systems all matter. Skill training matters, crafting matters, enchants matter. I could go on and on. Bag space matters, food and drink matter, how you approach combat certainly matters. If you really stop and think about it... what matters in retail? There is no point in crafting, everything you are given in the world trumps anything you can make. Enchants do not matter in retail because let's face it... you are going to replace that gear in a few minutes anyway. Then, there is the social aspect. It doesn't matter if you are a jerk all the time. The game is basically single player anyway. Troll whoever, behave however, say whatever and progression remains constant. Retail tries to give you that feeling of accomplishment constantly. Not just in the fact that you actually accomplished anything but more in the participation certificate form of achievement. You were there, so you win! Here is your prize. The level of skill or preparation in retail is just not a thing. Mash a few buttons, bring whatever, use whatever... boom, you win. Pull the level, smile and move on. In the end, what you are truly left with is a feeling of emptiness. The world, while full just feels empty. Like walking through a wax museum. All of the things are there, you can see them... but nothing really does anything. Classic leaves you with that full meal feeling. Retail leaves you with that constantly snacking on junk food feeling. I am not saying that if you prefer retail that your some shallow bad person who just wants free everything. What I am saying is... people who genuinely want to experience the world and what the game has to offer prefer a slower pace, giving more thought to the small details, forming closer bond with fellow players and having time to make those choices.
noice
Vanilla, tbc and wrath = golden age
Cata and mop = decent
Wod = shit
Legion = decent
Bfa = shit
SL = ultimate shit...
Somewhat agree but I think Shadowlands is on the same level as Legion, arguably better.
The only good thing retail has is dungeon finder and more classes.
The PvP scene definitely has more balance as well! But yes, these are some changes that have impacted the game a lot.
@@Palumor good point! I forgot about PVP.
Dungeon finder was bad it made the game way more dull more classes are always welcome.
"In retail wow blizzard has really forced the player to feel lile they're playing a single player game"
Yes and i absolutely love how is it a bad thing that WOW is more single player friendly now more than ever when i started playing in 2006 i always despised the fact that guilds were forced upon you amd you had to join one
Why are you playing an mmo if you don’t want to play with other people
your not a boomer for that word comes from 1940s to 1960s aka babyboom
Ry my boy!
oi. I like ya vid
retail wow is more about exploring all of its content. classic wow is about being apart of a community and progressing together.😊
CONTONT
First of all and before all my rant, despite everything im going to say i agree with you that classic is better game but i play retail for competition just like you, but the thing is;
-Orc racial is too op and too RNG
-There is people climbing in almost every building in battlegrounds its anoying
-There is a lot of drama in the guilds (if someone dont believe me you aint playing classic, am i wrong?)
-You end up farming the same raid all the year to help your guildmates or yourself to get gear, literally, the whole year farming the same single raid -That it has not mechanics
-If you are not in one of those superpopulated servers you are in risk and afraid of your server might die all the time
-Competitive pvp is just not there, i dont enjoy gank other people that dont want to pvp the whole day, or join in battlegrounds with retards.
In conclussion for me, and im not going to say only problems but also my "solutions"; There should be a WoW Classic Remaster. and blizzard should make us vote for what we want to see there.
From:
-Maybe some want Transmogs in classic (like me, its just an opinion)
-No climbing allowed in battlegrounds
-Make the orc racial balanced, maybe 15% of stun time reduction or something so the comptetitive players are not going to be all Horde-Orcs
-Add better loot system for raids, something new and fair, so people dont end up in corrupted guilds that keep the loot for their friends
-Better auction house system ffs
-And i dont know? you name it, but we can all agree that we can make a 15 years old game better and refreshing for this modern times
What do you think Palumor?
Yeah you bring up some really good points. There are definitely a lot of flaws with Classic. Coming from myself who played OSRS and maxed out I can say it was nice playing the old version of the game cleaned up by updates. I definitely got burnt out Classic fast after hitting 60 for the reasons you listed so you’re absolutely right. I am not certain about the solution but I think both games have their own unique pros and cons.
Classic wow is an MMO. Retail wow is not.
What destroys wow is the group finder and endless nerfs to dificulty.
Pvp is trash now and its worse than it used to be.
so i also think that classic was better because you had to do even more for legendary equipment ... 😂