Shifter: Visual Diary
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- I do not like the "Fake it till you make it" mentality that permeates the creative world. Would you accept that mentality from your doctor, lawyer, pilot, or plumber? Certainly not, and yet in photography it has become the norm.
When I approach photographers about getting trained I am mostly met with defensiveness, anger, shock, or excuses about how it isn't possible. More energy is spent learning how to avoid training than required for the training itself. I've had people who spend an hour and a half a day on RUclips and an hour and a half a day on Instagram tell me with a straight face they don't have the time or resources for formal training. Bullshit.
I'm about to give twenty rolls of TRI-X to a young Santa Fe photographer who is making the time to learn. Basic, basic stuff here. Photo 101 at the local community college. Not a lot of time. Not a lot of expense. Local schools, online classes, and workshops--both in person and online--are abundant. All the time you waste on other things is money lost toward learning your craft from someone who actually knows what they are doing.
Next up, saying "No." This is a critical part of the learning process, and if you don't want to self-sabotage your own industry, saying "No," is essential. I say "No," far more than I say "Yes," especially when it comes to being asked to complete jobs I am not properly trained for. Things like filmmaking. I have no business taking jobs that require me to produce polished, finished, high-level films. I get asked to do these things and I politely say "No."
One day, perhaps, if I work, train, and learn, I will be prepared to say "Yes," but until then I have a responsibility to say "No." Again, I don't want excuses for why you say "Yes," because ultimately, in what I've learned since this mentality was first introduced and accepted on a wide basis, is that most of what you will tell me will fall under the excuse category and the "I don't need formal training," category. I've been hearing this for years now and it just doesn't hold water.
Not professional here and happy to ask for help to improve. But just like you're trying to say here, there are a lot of "wolves in sheep's clothing" online. I refuse to ask for help and pay my hard owned money to someone who has a large following but a lousy work.
Online popularity does not equal expertise
No, it does not. However, there is currency in following, more so in fact, than currency in the work itself simply because many modern clients don't know any better.
As someone who teaches in higher education, I have seen people spend more time getting out of doing the work than actually doing the work. Nicely done.
I expect this from my nieces who are 10, 12. I would do the same that their age. But watching adults make excuses is totally lame.
I was ina 20 person MFA photo program in the early 1990s. I swear only 3-4 of us made any effort.
My experience is limited (a couple of institutions, maybe 40-80 different teachers, etc) in the grand scheme of eduction. But, one overarching theme is that institutions and teachers have a difficult time connecting the conceptual and practical dots. Students could benefit more from concrete examples of hyper relevant real world applications.
As for explicitly not doing the work, yeah, adults generally have more decision making power than kids. Shame, though, that it’s not taken seriously in your experience.
People do not want to pay their dues. Everything must be noW nOW NOW.
Yes, I think our timelines have been altered to a major degree.
I don't know Dan, I may not have watched a RUclips video, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Can I represent you in court now?? 🤣
It's okay, I'm a limo driver!
So true things you say here! Great! Film is not dead it just smells funny. Pass some job to me too :)
I love the quirkiness with which you make choices in life. It's good to have that freedom
The time I was chatting with a 30-something year old snapper about color temperature and they stared at me like a toddler at a lecture on quantum physics.
Yes, cue the reprimand.
Get off my lawn! @@DANIELMILNOR505
Great Caesar's Ghost......train? Study? I haven't felt a shiver down my spine like that since John Free spoke about "practice".....check your door.....that ominous rumbling is the inevitable result of such utterances....torches and pitchforks....retreat is unthinkable (un-American) so repent 😬
Oh by the hammer of Thor!
yes, it is a process (pardon the pun; do people still "process" film anymore... I guess so). I bought my Sony camera about three years ago, and started from literal scratch -- I had to read the manual to figure out how to turn it on. At first, I would pick it up once in a while, but then I gathered steam. Now I shoot every day, in all conditions, usually before work for about 30 to 45 minutes in the morning (7:00 - 8:00 a.m.) taking 25, 50, 100, 150 images a day depending on weather and time. I edit them in Lightroom after work, picking two or three I like and posting them to a small Facebook group here in Albany, N.Y. But I know I am still at the very beginning of a journey, as if I have barely left the trailhead (and I have the luxury of not having to feed myself from my photography...). I accept that. And its part of what I love about photography.
Enjoy, and it sounds like you are. That's the only thing that matters.
Back in the early 2000s I learned Thai boxing in pro Thai gyms in Bangkok
From ex professional fighters and spent hundreds of hours of training hard and learning the art, eventually competing. Fast forward and I now occasionally train people 121 in London. L (around my day job as a HR learning and development professional) My last thai boxing client was someone who didn’t want to spend the money our hours learning from me but wanted a one off session after which they intended to carry on learning thai boxing via RUclips. Yeah I took their cash for the one off session but inside I was screaming “you can’t learn this physical martial art from watching shit on YT alone. “ arghhhhh.
Short cuts. I asked someone the other day about photography and got the same response. It was along the lines of "Well, I know I've got a great eye, so I don't really think I need any training." Good grief.
Or maybe you're still good enough, but just have impostor syndrome.
I'm just a dude dressed as another dude playing another dude.
Watched this again (1st time I listened while driving (slight attention for this)) !!!!!!! 06/12/24 "MISS THIS LONG FORM STUFF" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
Milnor is him
I hate the fake it until you make it mentality. I decided to take up large format a number of years ago. When I thought I was good at it I counted up my reject sheets from my (long) learning period and I had £3-4000 of film sitting in a box. The learning process was pretty brutal and the change in format exposed shortcomings and sloppiness that was to an extent covered up by digital, but the challenge did improve my photography overall. The thought of taking that camera out and shooting professionally with it after having it for a couple of weeks would keep me up at night.
Ha, I've been there. Used to assist for a 4x5 photographer. He and the machine made me nervous but I learned a TON from the guy.
“Practice? Practice??”- Allen Iverson.
Love that interview.
I may have missed it in the video but where can I find information on your workshops?
www.wideanglecreative.com/ therawsociety.org/editing-and-bookmaking/
Wisdom. Currently traveling through India with my Zf, paper journal and fountain pen.
That sounds INCREDIBLE.
Was listening to this while driving and let’s just say those horns messed me up 😂
Ha, never thought of that. Go fast.
The reason I love your videos, you are not those you tube hacks. You are a skilled photographer who actually shoots. You helped with my return to film and now, thanks alot, I have 10 rolls in progress, and 1/4 of my freezer full. I'm retired so I have the luxury of shooting at least every other day. I pray for rain for days to develop and scan. I love the 2 photographers in CA before I left that were doing $500 turn and burn weddings, completely screwed them up and each got hit with a 40 grand judgement. You can bet they have no insurance for e&o if any GL.
I just wouldn't with that on anyone, and I hope for that to be urban legend and not reality. I can't imagine.
Not urban legend, both prior to 2014 in CA when I left CA. Like you said, zero entry requirement, but blow a wedding that can't be repeated, welcome to the litigious world of business in CA. ou can bet they didn't have a contract either. Try buying a house or a car with a 40 grand judgement on your credit! Sell your house and guess who is first in line before you get any profit. The judges looked at under exposed, blurry critical shots, pictures of feet, they didn't even bother to cull those out, and said, this is not a professional standard, even for $500 for the wedding. No cameras with needed high iso capability, no flash or skill to use one. A recipe for disaster. @@DANIELMILNOR505
sounds like a pathetic litigious california case.. perhaps due diligence and negligence of the client could have been considered, hummmmm@@mrca2004
The car horn was hilarious. It made me giggle. 😂
The tones of the ZF are really good. I would say crispy, like fried chicken.
Yes, I like it too. It's super sharp as well.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Nicely done!
Dan, I love your channel! I have a thought that won't let me go. And it's not meant to be stupid and it's really something I'd like to hear your opinion on: What is the difference between working as an uneducated, maybe sh!££y photographer (transfer of power 15:53 …) and working as a blogger (an uneducated, maybe sh!££y journalist)? Thank you! ✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Great question. Love this!
Is that blog you wrote about LA still up/available? That sounds interesting.
And what's even sadder are the fake-it types who've shot for a few months, book a wedding, then ask for help when the shoot goes bad and the bride wants her money back.
Very rare is the message I see of "why did you even take a wedding given that you have no experience?", and when I do, those people are keel-hauled by others online. As if suggesting someone, I don't know, KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING before shooting a wedding is a controversial topic.
Unedited....shifter.media/read-half-awake-to-my-los-angeles/ Yes, weddings are a dangerous game for the fake it crowd, but they still do it. I just had someone share a story about this. Photog shot by accident on small jpgs. Lawsuit. That is so hard to hear.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thank you for sharing that.
Your blog is reminiscent of R. Chandler or D. Hammett. Why do you think it was picked up so widely?
Japan workshop 🤔
Yes sir...www.wideanglecreative.com/
Hey Daniel, I’ve been shooting photos for about 20+ years. Started with a Pentax point and shoot. I remember I just wanted to capture life in general. But the feeling of wanting to to shoot photos never got tired. So I ended up buying a used Cañon EOS 3 and shot a lot of Fuji Vevia 50. Some black and white. Then digital came around and I bought into it. Canon was my go to. But as of recently with the film resurgence I decided to get back to film. But I’ve always had this feeling of not wanting to show my photos because they feel personal to me. I don’t know if I’m any good? But I love the photos I take. I found it interesting when you said the most happiest photographers were the ones not peddling their work. Hearing you talk about what you do is so motivating! Although I don’t have the motivation to do what you do, just hearing you talk about what you do is a side of photography I’ve always knew was there but knew it was a high level of professionalism. Im not professionally trained,mainly self taught. Since I decided to back into film I purchased manual cameras , and that’s when I realized I knew nothing about manual photography. The love is there for sure. I will never stop shooting photography. Thanks for the inspiration.
Just keep doing what you are doing. Shooting for yourself, which is mostly what I do now, is far better than attempting to be a professional. I see this and hear this all the time, but the idea of being a pro still resonates with many people, but often times that resonation is on the wrong frequency. Th Golden Age has passed for most, and I don't think it will ever return. But the basic love of photography is all you need.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I love landscape photography. I was very fortunate to have done all the National Parks before Instagram. No crowds. Sleeping in my car with just only me and the stars.
Love a Daniel rant! 🙌
I wish every photographer had access to a darkroom. I miss those days.
The antithesis of modern culture. SO SLOW>
A friend of mine who is a pro photographer London has just opened a dark room in his studio, available for hire and use under his workshops.
Not yet fiished watching but love it already. More journal stuff is appreciated. Thanks
Ha, just filmed something else.....
@@DANIELMILNOR505ah so you are realy having a long filming day. Looking forward to it since i really strugle to write more freely when i travel i write a lot but afterwards its reads like a technical report 😢
This guy seems to be pretty full of himself 😊.
Yes, that's what all my friends say. Huge ego.
@@DANIELMILNOR505good to hear that you have some friends.
"get them out of your life..." AGREE 100%
1. I have a friend who sends me typewritten letters. I will do what you did and paste it in my new journal, which I will begin this year, thanks to you.
2. It is BEST to be trained - hands down. I started out with the 'fake it' way (how painful that was). I made a meager living at it. Then I realized I didn't know what I was doing. Now I am training every day with my new camera because I'd like to be relaxed about working.
3. You answered the phone!
4. LOVE the photos.
5. Thanks for reminding us to stick to our guns.
Ha, you are on your way now....www.creativityexplored.org/shop/p/the-mail-art-club-catalog
You talked about getting education for photography by either taking classes or learning online. I went to school for it, and if I had to do it all over again, I would do the same. There's a lot of misinformation online, and if someone doesn't know about someone they don't know. They can take bad info and run with it. Could you maybe make a video or discuss some of the pros and cons of a classroom setting compared to just watching youtubers. I'm really digging your videos.
Sure, let me think about that. And I agree. School and training are different. There is no right and wrong path, per se, but they both can be critical to success.
the reason the BS of fake-it-till-u-make-it is accepted within the creative world is because no one really knows what theyre doing until they do it and start knowing what theyre doing. school isnt important other than to learn the basics and creating a network of like-minded individuals. you could learn many things just through basic youtube videos, the creative process is learned through experience and mistakes. i couldnt count the number of times i;ve taken a class and thought to myself "this dude is just reading off the book." if you want to network and meet people, go to school. if you want to learn how to save lives and fix the world, go to school. being sucessful in the creative world doesnt equate to official classes/training.
I don't agree at all. Based on my own personal 35+ year history in photography. School taught me a TON of things, and networking wasn't one of them. No problem starting to learn but you better be starting under the tutelage of someone who knows what they are doing, and I don't find many of those people online. The people who know what they are doing are actually doing jobs. They are working. Assisting, for example, is a GREAT thing to do, but when I mention this to people the most common response is "I don't need that." And when you are making your mistakes, who is helping you see what those mistakes are and how to refine them? And you just made my point, again. You will get work no matter what your level is. But if you are asking me how to get good at something, well, that's where this falls flat.
Interesting point. 🤔 Absolutely worth thinking about.
Also, here is why I would argue this point. If you don't learn something until doing it, then why do we have training at all? For example, let's talk book arts. Your saying I can't really know what I'm doing until I start making books. So the symposium I attended a few months back, the one where Susan Kae Grant showed her work, books, and process, was for what? Is that NOT supposed to inform me? Did that not add to my understanding of what's possible in the book arts? This wasn't expensive. This wasn't time-consuming. This was life-changing for me, not only in the sense of understanding her techniques but also in understanding the market for book arts and the institutions that are collecting such works. You see where I'm going here.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 i cant help but disagree with most of what you said, however, i will say that i enjoy your videos and will continue to watch them! your insight in the photography world is very specific and nuanced and i enjoyed it in a certain way in comparison to the other YTers that are, as you say, empty calories.
Excellent piece. I would recommend if you want to take up photography in a serious manner, get Ansel's instructional books and the Time-Life series, study them from cover to cover before ever watching any online "experts". You'll have a much better chance of recognizing well intended, but erroneous info. Then you'll only have to watch the ones about digital sensors with all their opinions and misinformation. Or stick to film. Wait, maybe take up journaling rather than photography. Then after a week or so you can post a youtube video explaining why Dan uses the wrong pen!
I will defend my pen. Those books are great. We had a photojournalism book that was required. Ken Kobre I believe. That was a goldmine.
I took one class in Junior High and have been hooked on photography ever since. I've never had a formal education in it outside of that one class, but I've had mentors, and taken many workshops, which is one of my favorite types of education. You can find them locally, or you can fly halfway around the world and learn next to some of the best photographers in the world. You can focus on one specific aspect of photography, or you can learn how to start and finish a project from concept to publication...
But you're right. If you don't shoot consistently you'll constantly be struggling to produce work that has any substance at all.
Again, I equate it to fitness. Don't work out for six months and that first day back is painful. Don't and sign up for a 30k trail run, like I did, and realize five miles in how much pain you are about to endure. And yes, I take workshops and I teach workshops for this very reason.
Love the honesty, keep up the great work!!
The impassioned is real.
Man, I learn more about photography from your channel than anywhere else on the internet.
As someone who's a self-taught shooter for close to 10 years (in my early 30s now), I've seen a sharp increase in the quality of my work when I'm shooting everyday. Also heeded your advice about taking one camera + one lens when going out and can safely say that contributed as well.
Cheers from ATX.
Ha, you mean the old advice before I became yet another middle-aged birder with too much kit?
@@DANIELMILNOR505 can't really capture birds quite as well with a nifty-50 i guess🤣
I find it wildly ironic that we were way more prolific, while shooting film, in college in the 80's that most of this gen coming up.
I think we have a culture of dabblers now. Not just in photography, but more so in general.
Doesn't Frank ockenfels 3 use paper and scissors with his journaling! And he says his journals are a huge source of inspiration! Also! Thanks for sharing your snow shoe photos! I like the wolf!!
Yes, Frank uses a lot of different things, and he also draws every day. He's a great example of a dedicated journal maker as well as being a high-level professional photographer. And he's cool to hang out with. Funny, generous.
Good film. Approved.
Great video amigo! I can relate the to student and photo 101. I’ve been playing with a digital camera for three years and at the age of 53 I also have started the spring semester at my community college in Bakersfield, Ca for BNW photography. I know I’m going backward to go forward but life is short and I’m making the best of it.
Right on. What a fun adventure. And you get to smell fixer.
where can I find details on your up-coming workshops, Dan?
therawsociety.org/editing-and-bookmaking/ www.wideanglecreative.com/
Another fine installment, I feel better about my own journal musings, doodles, cutouts. I loved the trigger warning segment. And my wife has nests too, although no marbles and yo-yos.
I'm amazed at what I find in her nests.
I need help journaling. It just a list of bullet points of things for me to stop doing..
Working on it...
I’m not really representative but I’m thankful for my teachers who would throw our projects in the trash if the craftsmanship was bad. - if you need to glue something in, I’ve found Uhu glue stick works good. I’ve got some good “No” stories but they won’t fit in this box.
Ha, that is hilarious, well, now it is. At the time, not so much.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I did the best I could in that moment. I would discover I could do better. Tasks that I thought was impossible. What some people need is a master that wants to help someone else along.
Hell yeah. Too many people are bland vanilla these days, lighten up. I never understood the point of being serious all the time. I thought too much effort went into that and in the end you gain nothing.
I think, thankfully, there are fewer and fewer folks who do this. At least in photography. But there are still some out there, mostly in the art photography world. But in some ways they kinda have to be that way.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 balance I suppose.
And the Humble award goes to.... 😅
Nah, I've been in bad shoots before, events when I wasn't prepared and it SUCKS.
Dan I want the tri-x! lol. Just switched my main medium to film
Ha, everyone wants it!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 my middle name is “everyone”
Video from the Nikon looks great!
Yes...it...does.
I started cutting up my photos last year and reconstituting them into something new in collage form-love cutting, love glue!
Hey Megan, that's a lovely idea. Collage is so amazing. My former Blurb colleague Kent Hall is a master.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 certainly is an excellent use for all the prints I’m not happy with-got tons of those.
Congrats on 15k!
Oh ya. Thank you. As I mentioned before. Other than furthering a conversation, which is totally worth it, there isn't much benefit. Sharing and communicating.
Preach
Just asking. Trying to make sense of this world.