V2H is the one feature I’ve been waiting for to buy an EV, and once I have an EV it only makes sense to go solar for my home. I imagine that I’m not the only one waiting for this feature, and expect more and more homes to go all electric once V2H is available.
I Installed Solar panels two years ago, then install two Tesla batteries last year and this year bought a Tesla EV Model 3 LR. Got all the Tax rebates for everyone of the items above. The only carbon I am producing now is when I breath out. Sold some of my Tesla stock to pay for all of this.
I’m in the same boat, day this is release I’m buying a PW3 and a comparable EC, just hope it’s not limited to Tesla only cars. Should be any EV with VTL.
@@stevejamieson1245 I'm a passenger on that boat too. BUT... just because a car has V2L (i.e. some Kia's and Hyundai's) does NOT mean you get V2G. Unless there's some trick I haven't heard of.
@@jjjxoxoxo You are wrong. I DO need V2H. I only have 6.4kW of solar due to my small roof (having downsized when I retired), and my Tesla Powerwall2 is really a bit too small to run the whole house if it has been a cloudy day, so V2H would greatly benefit me (I already have the EV). My 62 kWh Tesla car battery could keep my house running for many days.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I disagree. I imagine most Tesla owners also have their own house, solar, and possibly a Tesla battery too (like I do, and most of the members of my local Tesla Car Club).
This is a game changer. I have an MG4 which has V2L [vehicle to load]. This is very useful but far inferior to V2G [vehicle to grid]. Another snag with the MG4 is this :- it stops delivering power once the battery charge falls to 50%.
In China V2L is on all cars almost usually not more then 3kW unless it is some specialized pickup. And it is mainly advertised as a camping setup as almost no one have solar panels on thier houses. I did use it in that camping setup. Kept small fridge over night and use fan during the day plus some lights. It is cool feature.
The inverter on the car already just needs to work bidirectionally. On Tesla's that's 11.5kw basically. No need to use an additional Inverter, you shouldn't need both at the same time. That's extra expense and weight that shouldn't exist.
Getting two Tesla PWs installed in the coming weeks. I had planned on living with the two PWs and adding two more. But we plan to trade our 2022 MYP next year and our next EV will have V2H ability. Hopefully, it's another Tesla.
A company in Brittain is using old nissan leaf batteries in houses once their life as a car battery is ended. They are talking long life as the loads are very small compared with driving.
I recall reading about this a year or two ago - V2G was built into the circuitry. This would be VERY helpful in the case of emergency use during power outages. We have a 2023 Model Y and I'm hoping we can eventually have V2G with our car since we live in a place with power outages from time to time.
most VtoG systems dont work during power outages, you need extra hardware to do VtoH during power outages. they dont want to be electrocuted while working on a down system.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I would hope that the Tesla would connect to a Powerwall in such a way as to act simply as an expansion to the powerwall's battery. That would leave the Powerwall's circuitry in charge of delivering AC power to one's household during a mains power cut.
@@scottmcshannon6821 My Tesla Powerwall2 / Gateway3 already has the 'isolating switch' built in, so when the grid goes down, my house is 'islanded' from the grid, and the Tesla Powerwall2 / Gateway3 powers the whole house without electrocuting any linesmen. It ain't exactly rocket science.
@@greghudson9717 true, but you needed the extra hardware, most people seem to think if you have a VtoG vehicle and a charger you are set to go. powerwall2/gateway 3 ot powerwall3/isolation switch. every EV needs extra hardware for VtoG to work.
I think you need to study the cyber truck power share feature, the onboard inverter is used, and for split phase ac they use an external transformer. The Tesla universal wall connector is required.
Great coverage thank you. I'm super keen to pair this potentially with something like Sigenergy that looks to do 10kw DC to DC charging also. And looks like VW ID4 will be capable, so there delay to marketight be beneficial. But wow, if my existing Model 3 can also do this. 🎉
A Tesla with full biodirectional charging is truly a game change. Where we live, power failures in the winter absolutely happen. We have a dirty noisy old gas generator. I would LOVE to deep six that old clunker. I would trade up to a new MY Juniper immediately for such an option
@nanooseguy327 game changer for you and the very few people. It is no game changer at all and will only be added to Tesla's when it costs them nothing to do so.
I would likely upgrade too. That's one thing I require in my next EV. Not being able to use my car battery which stores 4-5 days of what my house would use when I had 3 power outage, one laying 3.5 days last years sucked. I did have a backup battery I used to run my furnace and sump pump but I also had to tote it to work to charge up and bring back.
This will be the feature that will shift me to EVs. I don't care about autonomous driving nonsense or purple interior lights. It's obvious why Tesla haven't released this feature.
DC fast charging requires a direct connection from the charging connector to the battery. Therefore, any EV that is capable of DC fast charging should also be capable of DC discharging into an external inverter. The only requirement is that the vehicle’s software and protection components allow it. Most likely, a software update could “turn it on” for many EVs.
Powerwall 3 has the dc expansion ports. I could see a dc wall connector that would utilize this. Seems like Tesla is downplaying this ability until they get their power company certifications in more states. Then one day they takeover the grid!
@@paullind6534 I figured the downplaying was due to battery warranty concerns from increased charging/discharging for household energy storage. I'm still hoping they offer a bidirectional charger at some point.
VTL is a great feature for camping. Induction cooking, lighting, refrigeration, lighting etc. without the need of a noisy generator or gas for cooking.
Lack of V2L that can power two full size refrigerators is the only reason I have not bought an electric car. When oh when will this be available? Is there some huge technical barrier? I just want to plug a power strip into my car and then plug two refrigerators into that strip. Keep food from going bad during power outages.
Why would you want to do it? If the power goes out yeah. But otherwise you're going to have to recharge the car, so it doesn't make that much sense other than power outages.
V2G is the key - We have a Nissan leaf for this reason and struggling to get this to work in the UK for a reasonable price so for now just a pipe dream
You will need an inverter to go from DC in the battery to AC in the grid. The car does not have this built in. The Cybertruck does (for all the various power outlets.)
@adamdarrow The gateway is about switching power to go between the right places and not back out on a dead grid. But, conceivably, you could make a product with that plus an inverter and a car charger. In one quite neat box. That is what you would want, but it is not an existing Tesla product.
@@adamdarrow The Powerwall / Gateway will do whole home backup already. Mine switched on again yesterday when we had another grid outage due to lightning.
It's certainly not 'inconvenient' for me... I already have a Tesla Model Y, Powerwall2, Gateway 3, Solar panels, and I'm retired, so the car is at home most of the time during the day. BUT... during the day isn't when I need it, (because of the solar panels). I need it from 3pm onwards, when peak rates start, and the sun is already going down. I'm looking forward to this V2G ASAP. As an example, yesterday (11Sept 24) my Powerwall was full by 11:30am, and the Model Y full by 1pm, and, because the wholesale Feed in Tariff was around -7c/kWh I received NOTHING for the power I exported to the grid (because wind and solar farms were already supplying around 70% of the required power to the Eastern seaboard grid, including South Australia). That balance of 30% SHOULD have gone to people like me, but no, that is not how it works - the coal fired power stations were allowed to bid the price down to -7cents, meaning I got SFA. (sweet fuck all). I'm already part of the Tesla VPP, so I 'should' be a priority customer (via Amber wholesale power), but no, no, no... that would be just too good to be true 😞 Also, V2L and V2G are specifically BANNED in the user manual. If you do it (and yes it is already possible, and has been for many years), Tesla will negate your 8 year battery warranty. And they can probably monitor it too, so you probably can't even do V2L without them knowing about it (IMO).
Maybe you aren't aware, but Tesla is already a 'Power Company' in some States of the USA. Why they aren't here in Australia is beyond me. Same goes with car insurance. Why aren't they here too... 😞
I have a 2ish year old Model Y and am having a solar system with PW3's installed next week actually. If I could at some point tie that Model Y into the rest of the system it would be amazing. I am getting Two Powerwall 3 units and even with both those batteries it might not be enough to run the house all night. My Model Y is sitting there with like 3 times as much juice in it doing nothing :(
I have a 201 Leaf with ChaDemo in the USA. It doesn't have much range (ok for local driving) but it sure would be useful to power my home when needed. But there just doesn't seem to be a turnkey thing that I can buy to connect to my home.
Will Prowse (DIY Solar Power) had a recent episode where he used his Ford Lightning to power his house using only the onboard AC "Pro Power" inverters at up to 10 kW. No special gateway involved. Just plugged into his house using a transfer switch.
@@MarkSpohr It's really simple. Plug a 12v DC to 240v AC inverter into the power socket. You then plug it into your home 240v socket (standard in Australia). Power is somewhat limited, but can be, and has been, done already... (Not by me though because it would void my battery warranty).
@@greghudson9717 That will give you 150 W max. which is pretty much useless. To run a house you need at least 5 kW which is what you can get from the Ford Propower and other V2x setups.
@@MarkSpohr You can get up to 2400 watts. I didn't say it could get to 5 or 10 kW using this method. We will have to wait for Tesla to release their V2HG plan I guess.
V2G and V2L, Tesla are crazy not to have this facility. They also need to stick a hatch on the back of the M3. The MY is not the only EV on the market any more.
The problem is quite simple If the grid is down then how does the car know if it is still connected to the rest of the grid?? If the house (and car) is still connected and somebody goes to do some work on the dead grid wiring then they are at risk of electrocution The House units come with a disconnect system to ensure that they can't do this The only safe way to do this would be to require the homeowner to fit a disconnect module that can "talk" to the car - so buying and setting up a powerwall would probably be needed
Amusingly, if you own a powerwall, the Tesla charger will be installed on a separate non-backup circuit because the powerwall doesn’t have the capacity to charge it (battery is too small). For that reason, when the power goes out, the powerwall gateway probably can’t talk to the car, because that circuit has been intentionally cut off in an outage to prevent that from occurring. Consequently the car can’t energize the house.
I'm also waiting for V2H. Have looked at getting an old Nissan Leaf as it already has this function, but decided in the end to wait and see what might be announced on October 10.
Don't forget Tesla is also selling those Powerwall batteries. The batteries in the car is 10X bigger than the Powerwalls so if you already have a Tesla car why would you buy the Powerwall battery? I bet that's the real reason why Tesla is dragging their feet on this. They don't want to compete against themselves.
and I was hoping to make a decent espresso with that 220V socket... I do have a 12V to 220v inverter for that. powering the house is on a whole other level that maybe a small minority would take advantage of
@@Illopp00ify MY and M3 could export 400V DC just by engaging the HV contactor, but you'd still need an expensive external box to invert it safely to provide AC.
@@ahavelandand a different universal wall connector, and dc wiring in your house, etc etc. Tesla isn’t doing it this watch it’ll be AC coupled with the inverter in the car just like they do with the cyber truck. Sam’s wrong, he doesn’t know how this works
@@ahaveland I already have 'expensive external box', its called an inverter, and changes the 450v DC coming off my solar panels into 240v AC that my house can use.
@@silverlex1 Few people really know how this works and there are many choices and ways to implement solutions. 230V AC coupling would be the most versatile for general purpose home or away use though it's lossy, and this is likely the lowest hanging fruit, but retroactively installing an inverter on EVs that weren't conceived with this in mind would be expensive. HVDC-DC and direct connection would have less conversion losses and require thinner cables. When home and EV batteries become near equalized, a DC-DC converter can be bypassed to make a direct connection. Also HVDC-DC can be proprietary as it would require certification because of the HV, so it's more tempting for a manufacturer to try to lock in the customer. Thus only one inversion stage would be needed to send to the grid/home. Just some thoughs.
An unspoken benefit of bi-directional charging is the possibility of buddy rescue. This is the EV version of having a set of jumper leads in the boot of your Toyota. At the moment, if you totally drain the charge in your Tesla battery, the car is immobile and you need an expensive tow to the nearest Supercharger facility. Bi-directional charging would allow a buddy to rescue you by pulling up next to your car and decanting a bit of charge from his Tesla battery into your Tesla battery. Enough to get you home, perhaps, or to the nearest supercharger station. It's the modern equivalent of the one-gallon can.
Disagree. My powerwall is reserved just for my home use - when the weather is rubbish, it ties me over until (hopefully) the sun shines again. Here in the Uk, at best the average price paid by the grid for energy is about 50% of what it cost the customers. Some companies will pay much more but only at peak times, times when most homes want to use the power from their battery system.
So does that mean v2g can be turned on and off by other external parties as societal and political and economic factors change? What guarantee does the ev buyer have once they have invested in a bidirectional charger and v2x ev? I’m not sure of the long term, did I miss something?
A lot of homes now have a "power inlet box" for their backup gas or solar generators that allows them to run their home in a power outage. All they need from Tesla is a 240V AC output with say 2000W and they can use that same "power inlet box" to power their homes. Folks like me who have a non Tesla, battery backed, solar power system, could transfer power from the Tesla to the home battery bank just as if it where coming from a backup generator.
2kW will not be enough. I turn my oven on, and it draws 2.6kW by itself. If the aircon, oven, dishwasher, washing machine, plus all normal loads TV, computers etc are on, I can easily hit 10+ kWh current draw. (I did it one day just to test). If I add my EV in, I can add another 77% to almost double the current required. The EV can draw up to 32 Amps at 240v (7.5kW limited by the EV wall box)
Some cars that can use vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology include: Nissan Leaf A Nissan model that can store electricity in its battery and send it back to the grid, a building, or other destination. Hyundai Ioniq 5 A Hyundai model that can store sustainable energy in its batteries on a large scale. Kia EV6 A Kia model that can feed energy back into the grid, in addition to receiving it. Genesis GV60 A Genesis model that can power most household items using its vehicle-to-load function. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV A Mitsubishi model that comes with standard V2L charging and two 120-volt AC power outlets. Hyundai Ioniq 6 A Hyundai model that's built on the Electric Global Modular Platform (E-GMP) and can transfer up to 3.6 kW of power to plug-in devices. Ford F-150 Lightning A Ford model that has V2H "vehicle to home" capabilities, and is expected to have V2G tech in the future.
Nissan Leaf has exceptionally poor battery management, those cars rarely make it to 60k to 80k miles without damaging the battery, that's why used one sell so cheap. Adding additional load and wear to the battery with v2H isn't a good idea and I'm pretty sure it is the reason Nissan doesn't pursue it is because they don't want to pay for batteries under warranty when they fail prematurely with V2H.
V2L is the only additional feature im interested in evs built today. The grid if needed can be a standby power source but no power produced by my solar setup will be send to the grid. Excess energy i see beter used for crypto mining
v2home would already be great! for the moment i would not trust the utilities for v2g! i would though trust vpp with tesla as they are a powerful force (electrical & negotiating) for the utilities to consider!
Tesla powerwalls absolutely do not have inverters in them. The point is that if you have a powerwall you have some other inverter also installed to make use of it, but it is always a separate component. It's possible that Tesla will only allow owners of a powerwall to make use of their cars v2g capability. This is not at all necessary but will preserve Tesla's sales of their very profitable powerwalls. If they just made it possible to use your car alone as a home battery then very few people would opt for a powerwall.
OK, Explain this... My solar panels output 450v DC. It goes into my solar inverter, and is changed to AC, which then goes into my Tesla gateway then powerwall. The powerwall batteries are DC, so either the gateway or the powerwall are converting the AC back into DC.
I would be very disappointed if it were not available on the powerwall 2, obviously if the tech doesn’t support it at the moment I’d like to think that Tesla would make it possible to upgrade. I’d also like to think that valley mode will be made available on public roads so the car can take itself home to charge 😂
Not a biggie to charge bidirectionally. Should've been in all BEVs from the start. Seems like BEV manufacturers intentionally didn't do this so they can sell this as a feature.
All EVs capable of DC fast charging cam do V2G. All it takes is a software change and an external inverter. Every Tesla ever built has this ability. In fact, the ultimate capacity would be at least 150A x 400v = 60KW or potentially 300A x 400v = 120KW.
Even the outlander 23 phev has V2G.Used in in their South Australia headquarters.This is not new but is being dragged out.What would be the cheapest EV with the biggest battery with V2X?xpeng etc chinese brands included...
Regular V2G will degrade the batteries faster, coupled with reduced cyclelife of NCM batteries and a generous warranty, would result in increased warranty claims. There is a reason why V2G was dis-allowed and made part of the design decision initially. Now with other automakers, using the feature to boost sales has given a pause going forward with it. It will surely, be a feature going forward, but with additional disclaimers on warranty, to avoid regular use, and might even implement a non-resettable log on V2G sessions. Nothing prevents a determined one to wire up V2H(diy, even for older teslas), as a means of emergency power for few days.
@@LaBambaCL just going from memory, but I think if you look up “Tesla penthouse” You will start getting some info in the right direction. Please note that doing this will void your battery warranty.
It's a real problem that home battery storage is ridiculously exorbitantly overpriced. The vendors of this space have managed to keep prices at least five times what they really ought to be. They're still charging about $1,000 per kilowatt hour. The wholesale price of the raw cells is now less than 1/10 of that, and raw cells make up 95% of the battery. (Chargers and inverters are all sold separately.) It would be great if the car manufacturers put some pressure on this space by opening up V2G and at least V2L. About the only vehicle that does this is the Ford Lightning so have to give some credit to Ford at least. Tesla I'm afraid is not likely to do this because it would affect sales of their super high profit margin home batteries.
I like this idea of V2G but I think we do have to consider its impact on battery degradation. EV battery life is measured in battery cycle life and so V2G will add to the cycles of charge/discharge, potentially shortening the life of the battery, though I couldn’t say how significant this would be. Also, Depth of Discharge can affect the rate of degradation so I hope it is accompanied by a smart system that will avoid deeper discharges. Maybe the money you get back from the power company for V2G will more than offset the (minor?) battery degradation?
DC bidirectional seems lot easier, as the CCS (and Tesla NACS, CCS-compatible at least), standards support this?... BUT, you need not just software/protocols enabled in the car, but also (very expensive) DC-AC inverter on the wall of the house, besides normal transfer/disconnect switches to disconnect from grid if needed (power house during outage)... dcBel, Enphase, Wallbox, Autel, some others have these, or at least coming soon ...but they are expensive. PowerWall3 has powerful inverter as noted, but... it's not connected directly to the car via charger? AC V2L on the car, is much easier, though power limited... CyberTruck has the PowerShare feature, but you need the right Tesla wall charger.
It's trivial to flip the relay on a Tesla to make 400+ volts appear on the DC port. Of course, there are a lot of protections involved to make sure this only happens when a connector is detected and authenticated. Sounds like the easiest thing for Tesla to do is to add the capability to accept the 400V and invert that for use on the grid through their powerwalls - only a small software mod would be required on the car, and they could make more money selling powerwalls. However, what people really want is for the car to provide several kW of AC itself, and I would be very surprised if any Tesla apart from the CT has an inverter installed and configured.
Agree. Well, you need a little bit of hardware to get the DC from the battery to the inside of the Powerwall, so it is a little more than a Powerwall and a software update.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Actually it's probably easy. My Model Y battery is DC, and my Powerwall2 is also DC, so no conversion to AC is required. In fact, my solar is also DC, so I should really convert all my appliances in the home to DC and forget all this AC crap ;-)
@@greghudson9717 A lot of your appliances are already DC. Everything is a computer these days, and they all run on DC. Lights are LED, those are DC. All the rechargeable stuff or the things you stuff full of batteries, very much DC. Fancy stuff with electric motors in them? The good stuff have regulated AC motors run by power electronics that lives on... DC, like the motors of a modern electric car. What is left? Simple resistive heating works fine on DC. Anything with a power brick is just trying to get DC these days. But none of it is simple, of course, except for in principle. 😁
Sandy Munro has already shown how the Tesla model 3 ECU was designed to accommodate bi-directional charging & V2G/V2H back when he first tore it down. All it would take is swapping a few diodes with transistors and bob's your uncle. The worry for Tesla is that doing so WILL cannibalize a good chunk of their Powerwall sales, AND will add more charge/discharge cycles onto EV batteries, decreasing their lifespans.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 There is supposed to be a inverter like the Ford one that doesn’t require a power wall. However, if Tesla does make us buy a power wall they will still only sell one per household.
@@frankcoffey There is for the Cybertruck. That doesn't help S3XY, since it uses the on board inverters, just like Ford. If Tesla sell one Powerwall per household, that is a metric XXXX-ton of Powerwalls. To quote Tesla: "For homes not equipped with Powerwall, a Universal Wall Connector and Powershare Gateway will be required to use Powershare Home Backup." (The Cybertruck product.)
The only inconvenience V2G will bring is to the big utility companies who want to keep everyone in the stranglehold they've had on us all for so long forcing us all to buy electricity from them.
Every car with DC charging is V2X capable! Not Tesla specific... It is already possible to draw energy out of the Tesla battery. But you will lose your guarantee...
In the US V2G needs to be worked out with each utility which are state based [some multistate], in some cases one or two companies in others they can have many based on counties and run by Public Utility Districts [PUD's, which are owned by the residents in essence]. For profit entities pricing and tax credits for infrastructure are regulated by a state board [PUD can apply for tax credits but generally have better pricing and refund profits to it's users for the sale of power on the market]. V2H is what the cybertruck can do and from what Tesla has released they have sort of made that available but not always. This may have changed? But they have added some strange verbiage about its use to its contracts, which forbid its use as a regular source of power but only in emergencies. Early on, and it may still be that way, if you have powerwall's they were not letting you use the truck as a back up. Currently Kia EV9's and the Wallbox Quasar team are working with a utility to validate the system for V2G. Kia has pushed back US manufacturing of the EV9 till next year so that they can have batteries made here and get full tax credits rather than deduct $7500 off the purchase price themselves on current EV's. Since cars sit 95% of their lives waiting to be used having them back up grids is a no brainer that has been stalled at the national level for two decades now in the US by big oil and the politicians they buy with donations.
Best comment so far! Utilities have a stranglehold on v2g. They are for profit and v2g would not be in their best interest. Eventually it will happen with Tesla but I believe they are fighting quietly in the background to get certification as a power company per state.
I still hate it they cant be native and make them buy a separate product gatekeeping with software when it could save lives now... especially with the typhoon that just went through Asia
Just to be clear "Power" is energy per second. Power per second makes no sense unless one were talking about the rate of change of power. For the future, the units of power are kW (kilowatt) and the units of energy are kWh (Kilowatt hour). So to make it simple, the concept of "power" is how fast your battery can deliver or absorb energy. And energy tells you how far your car can go. It's a little like acceleration vs speed in a car.
I'm a huge Tesla fan, I own two of his vehicles a model less and a y. I want to list to get the test apparel wall and solar roof. But my issue with Tesla and actually it's with Elon is that everybody assumes that he is doing the right thing for the environment but I think he's doing the right thing for himself and his company. Right now doing the right thing for his company is aligned with doing the right thing for the environment and it's consumers. That is right now when Tesla dominates the EV market and the solar market and the battery market which he will do. He will not be passing on the savings and looking out for his consumers or the environment like he does now. An example of that is when vehicle to grid was becoming popular by consumers meaning everybody found out about it and wanted it he was asked in an interview why don't his cars have it. And he said that consumers don't want it and that it would not get put in because it's a waste of money. This is in an interview Google it. And the reason why was because he was trying to get the test of power walls up and running and if everybody thought that their car was going to be able to be vehicle to grid capable they wouldn't buy a test of powerwall. Was that the right thing to do for his company Yes but that's what I mean he looks out for himself and his company just like the CEO of Ford just like the CEO of Chevy just like the CEO of BMW and Volkswagen. He just has the balance that because he's not number one. But as soon as he becomes number one like Ford was he will act just like they do selfish ly
As far as i know, tesla’s haven’t got V2G. Munro (as we all know) took the Model 3/Y and investigated specifically bi-directional charging. The charge circuit was (and is) unfortunately not equipped with the possibility for V2G. So either they changed the charging hardware since 2021, either it’s still not in there vehicles. Hopefully they will in the near future, i would love this helpful function, i would use it a lot, maybe even on a daily basis.
hmm..."capable" and "practical" are two different things. Seems that what you're saying is that Tesla cars have big batteries....no surprise there. Absent a means to tap into the battery, the fact that the battery is there is of little consequence.
In the UK my understanding is as follows: Some vehicle manufacturers other than nissan (Skoda and probably therefore VW, Audi etc) have activated V2G via there CCS ports. There is one (I think) household charger which supports V2G. The issue comes with grid outages. If your house isn't wired up properly, you could be exporting power to the grid while some unfortunate engineer is attempting to diagnose and fix the grid fault, assuming that the circuit is dead. Potentially a lethal combination. Household batteries and PV inverters are wired up so that doesn't happen. Also, Skoda, to maintain their battery warranty, restricts the number of V2G cycles before they kill the function. If anyone knows otherwise feel free to correct me.
@@peejayem4700 it’s still only a trial on South Australia the company that is supplying the equipment is called jet charge in Victoria and when you can buy the equipment it’s about $10,000. Another company had the equipment on display at The everything electric show in Sydney and I think it was even more than $10,000 from them.
1st gen Leaf batteries are easily replaced on the cheap so not bad. The Tesla charging port under the seat is not there for customers so don't hold your breath.
All great ideas. Theoretically. Installation and equipment cost will be crazy in Australia. Only relevant for home owners. What about warranty and repairs on all of these new car brands in Australia? Has any of these been tested? Some brands don't even exist as long as their warranty.. What are insurance costs if 40% of value sits in a single part underneath your car (write off risks). High innovation rate brings high loss of value for EV owners. Battery and tech likely be outdated in 2-3 years. Most people cant buy +50K $ cars like mobile phones. New one every 3 years, old one to tbe bin or hand down to kids. This might very well be the future but battery prices will need to come down significantly before this 'ecosystem' becomes practical for the average Australian.
Maybe you would, but you would also buy expensive electronics to be installed at your house, that works with the now mostly dead standard Chademo. Maybe you could get that used and in decent condition, too? Old Leafs that have not been run in hot climates are good value for local use, though. Roadtrips are for the brave and patient.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 As for the long road trips, that's almost all I do. 44,000km in 2 years in my Tesla Model Y, most of that in the outback (or well off the beaten EV track at least).
Munro did a teardown video of Tesla's. What I understood is that they didn't fimd any V2G technolog in older Tesla's. But that means there's a whole lot of Tesla's that will not be able to cinnect to the grid. I have doubts that retrofitting older Tesla's will meaningfully add older batches to the grid. I think only new EV owners from the last 12 months onwards will truly be able to inclusively ebjoy the fruuts of a future grid cinnection and likely also newer owners. The r3st of society is still trying to transition and will have to wait for EV grid connection a while longer. I do believe we might see a growth in third party EV repair as people get fed up of having to keep investing in a new Ev every 12 months and want to drive cheaper longer by driving their EV longer. If the science is correct EV can drive longer and last longer than ice vehicles. But the strange thing is we do still talk about new EVs like ice cars because we still expect to change EVs every 1-5 years? What's up with that?
I think we're going to see the cost of Used Tesla's increase because of this hidden GOLD. I also think that once we have enough data, Tesla's will have proved themselves to be a Long-Lasting automobile. The challenge has been not enough data to support the Durability of Tesla's. Once that data is available and proves how long they'll last, the price of Used Tesla's is going to increase almost overnight.
V2G is a bit like nuclear fusion. Always a couple of years away (well nuclear fusion always 20 years away). Sure CHADeMO has a standard but the CCS group seems strangely reticent to get off their asses and make it a standard. Endless trials with zero movement.
7 year old Model X, almost exclusively supercharged (FUSC), still no issues with 110k on the clock. I'd participate in V2X immediately, you are jumping at shadows with this degradation nonsense
The best solar company in Australia just installed my new solar system.
Check them out here: www.resinc.com.au/electricviking
V2H is the one feature I’ve been waiting for to buy an EV, and once I have an EV it only makes sense to go solar for my home. I imagine that I’m not the only one waiting for this feature, and expect more and more homes to go all electric once V2H is available.
I Installed Solar panels two years ago, then install two Tesla batteries last year and this year bought a Tesla EV Model 3 LR. Got all the Tax rebates for everyone of the items above. The only carbon I am producing now is when I breath out. Sold some of my Tesla stock to pay for all of this.
I’m in the same boat, day this is release I’m buying a PW3 and a comparable EC, just hope it’s not limited to Tesla only cars. Should be any EV with VTL.
@@stevejamieson1245 I'm a passenger on that boat too. BUT... just because a car has V2L (i.e. some Kia's and Hyundai's) does NOT mean you get V2G. Unless there's some trick I haven't heard of.
You are one of very few people that need or can afford the extreme high costs of v2h.
@@jjjxoxoxo You are wrong. I DO need V2H. I only have 6.4kW of solar due to my small roof (having downsized when I retired), and my Tesla Powerwall2 is really a bit too small to run the whole house if it has been a cloudy day, so V2H would greatly benefit me (I already have the EV). My 62 kWh Tesla car battery could keep my house running for many days.
This has me the most excited about EVs
Thanks!
Welcome!
Enabling V2G/V2L would give a big boost to sales
No
Yup. It's what I'm waiting for.
its like towing, everybody wants it and a few will actually use it.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I disagree. I imagine most Tesla owners also have their own house, solar, and possibly a Tesla battery too (like I do, and most of the members of my local Tesla Car Club).
Outside of the inverter it could also destroy the Powerwall market. They would be competing against themselves.
To EV manufacturers:
I'm not buying an EV until V2G is available at a cost effective price for the whole home and vehicle system
This is a game changer. I have an MG4 which has V2L [vehicle to load]. This is very useful but far inferior to V2G [vehicle to grid]. Another snag with the MG4 is this :- it stops delivering power once the battery charge falls to 50%.
Looking forward to a fully compliant 3 phase powerwall being available to purchase in Australia...
In China V2L is on all cars almost usually not more then 3kW unless it is some specialized pickup. And it is mainly advertised as a camping setup as almost no one have solar panels on thier houses. I did use it in that camping setup. Kept small fridge over night and use fan during the day plus some lights. It is cool feature.
The inverter on the car already just needs to work bidirectionally. On Tesla's that's 11.5kw basically. No need to use an additional Inverter, you shouldn't need both at the same time. That's extra expense and weight that shouldn't exist.
Getting two Tesla PWs installed in the coming weeks. I had planned on living with the two PWs and adding two more. But we plan to trade our 2022 MYP next year and our next EV will have V2H ability. Hopefully, it's another Tesla.
I can confirm that Powerwall 2 do the business! Great peice of kit.
@@farmerpete6274 Changed my order and am getting 2 PW3s. But there is a 12-week backlog, so am looking at sometime after the 1st of the year.
A company in Brittain is using old nissan leaf batteries in houses once their life as a car battery is ended. They are talking long life as the loads are very small compared with driving.
I recall reading about this a year or two ago - V2G was built into the circuitry. This would be VERY helpful in the case of emergency use during power outages. We have a 2023 Model Y and I'm hoping we can eventually have V2G with our car since we live in a place with power outages from time to time.
most VtoG systems dont work during power outages, you need extra hardware to do VtoH during power outages. they dont want to be electrocuted while working on a down system.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I would hope that the Tesla would connect to a Powerwall in such a way as to act simply as an expansion to the powerwall's battery. That would leave the Powerwall's circuitry in charge of delivering AC power to one's household during a mains power cut.
@@levenkay4468 That is the reasonable interpretation of all of this.
@@scottmcshannon6821 My Tesla Powerwall2 / Gateway3 already has the 'isolating switch' built in, so when the grid goes down, my house is 'islanded' from the grid, and the Tesla Powerwall2 / Gateway3 powers the whole house without electrocuting any linesmen. It ain't exactly rocket science.
@@greghudson9717 true, but you needed the extra hardware, most people seem to think if you have a VtoG vehicle and a charger you are set to go. powerwall2/gateway 3 ot powerwall3/isolation switch. every EV needs extra hardware for VtoG to work.
I think you need to study the cyber truck power share feature, the onboard inverter is used, and for split phase ac they use an external transformer. The Tesla universal wall connector is required.
Cybertruck outputs split phase ac onboard for both vth and vtl.
Great coverage thank you.
I'm super keen to pair this potentially with something like Sigenergy that looks to do 10kw DC to DC charging also. And looks like VW ID4 will be capable, so there delay to marketight be beneficial.
But wow, if my existing Model 3 can also do this. 🎉
A Tesla with full biodirectional charging is truly a game change. Where we live, power failures in the winter absolutely happen. We have a dirty noisy old gas generator. I would LOVE to deep six that old clunker. I would trade up to a new MY Juniper immediately for such an option
@nanooseguy327 game changer for you and the very few people. It is no game changer at all and will only be added to Tesla's when it costs them nothing to do so.
I would likely upgrade too. That's one thing I require in my next EV. Not being able to use my car battery which stores 4-5 days of what my house would use when I had 3 power outage, one laying 3.5 days last years sucked. I did have a backup battery I used to run my furnace and sump pump but I also had to tote it to work to charge up and bring back.
Well if Cybertruck is your flavor you’re in business.
Wow. I wonder when we can start using it.
This will be the feature that will shift me to EVs. I don't care about autonomous driving nonsense or purple interior lights. It's obvious why Tesla haven't released this feature.
Nice feature of Chademo was the bi directional charging. First gen Leaf batteries can be upgraded with CATL batteries.
DC fast charging requires a direct connection from the charging connector to the battery. Therefore, any EV that is capable of DC fast charging should also be capable of DC discharging into an external inverter. The only requirement is that the vehicle’s software and protection components allow it. Most likely, a software update could “turn it on” for many EVs.
Powerwall 3 has the dc expansion ports. I could see a dc wall connector that would utilize this. Seems like Tesla is downplaying this ability until they get their power company certifications in more states. Then one day they takeover the grid!
@@paullind6534 I figured the downplaying was due to battery warranty concerns from
increased charging/discharging for household energy storage. I'm still hoping they offer a bidirectional charger at some point.
VTL is a great feature for camping. Induction cooking, lighting, refrigeration, lighting etc. without the need of a noisy generator or gas for cooking.
Lack of V2L that can power two full size refrigerators is the only reason I have not bought an electric car. When oh when will this be available? Is there some huge technical barrier? I just want to plug a power strip into my car and then plug two refrigerators into that strip. Keep food from going bad during power outages.
It is available with several evs. Cybertruck is one example.
The Ford Lightning has V2L as well as the Hyundai Ioniq. Any 2024 GM EV can do it with their $5,600 V2H enablement kit.
One must understand any power put into any power grid must be perfectly in sync with nominal phasing. This requires extension engineering.
When Sandy took apart early M3 models, he suggested that some power diodes would prevent bi-directional charging. They may have been changed since.
If this is true, I would buy it right away. I would love to power my home with my Model Y.
Why would you want to do it? If the power goes out yeah. But otherwise you're going to have to recharge the car, so it doesn't make that much sense other than power outages.
V2G is the key - We have a Nissan leaf for this reason and struggling to get this to work in the UK for a reasonable price so for now just a pipe dream
I have a Nissan Leaf in the UK too. I’d like to know more about how to use my car V2G. Why is it difficult to do at a reasonable price?
I think it would work with the Gateway as the Cybertruck does, so Powerwall may not be necessary.
You will need an inverter to go from DC in the battery to AC in the grid. The car does not have this built in. The Cybertruck does (for all the various power outlets.)
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 I think the inverter is in Teslas Gateway. I only want V2H for power outages.
@adamdarrow The gateway is about switching power to go between the right places and not back out on a dead grid. But, conceivably, you could make a product with that plus an inverter and a car charger. In one quite neat box. That is what you would want, but it is not an existing Tesla product.
@@adamdarrow The Powerwall / Gateway will do whole home backup already. Mine switched on again yesterday when we had another grid outage due to lightning.
@@greghudson9717 right, but with bidirectional charging and a Gateway I think you can bypass the expense of the powerwall.
It's certainly not 'inconvenient' for me... I already have a Tesla Model Y, Powerwall2, Gateway 3, Solar panels, and I'm retired, so the car is at home most of the time during the day. BUT... during the day isn't when I need it, (because of the solar panels). I need it from 3pm onwards, when peak rates start, and the sun is already going down. I'm looking forward to this V2G ASAP.
As an example, yesterday (11Sept 24) my Powerwall was full by 11:30am, and the Model Y full by 1pm, and, because the wholesale Feed in Tariff was around -7c/kWh I received NOTHING for the power I exported to the grid (because wind and solar farms were already supplying around 70% of the required power to the Eastern seaboard grid, including South Australia). That balance of 30% SHOULD have gone to people like me, but no, that is not how it works - the coal fired power stations were allowed to bid the price down to -7cents, meaning I got SFA. (sweet fuck all).
I'm already part of the Tesla VPP, so I 'should' be a priority customer (via Amber wholesale power), but no, no, no... that would be just too good to be true 😞 Also, V2L and V2G are specifically BANNED in the user manual. If you do it (and yes it is already possible, and has been for many years), Tesla will negate your 8 year battery warranty. And they can probably monitor it too, so you probably can't even do V2L without them knowing about it (IMO).
There is probably a lot of vested interest groups from power companies to not allow this.
Maybe you aren't aware, but Tesla is already a 'Power Company' in some States of the USA. Why they aren't here in Australia is beyond me. Same goes with car insurance. Why aren't they here too... 😞
I have a 2ish year old Model Y and am having a solar system with PW3's installed next week actually. If I could at some point tie that Model Y into the rest of the system it would be amazing. I am getting Two Powerwall 3 units and even with both those batteries it might not be enough to run the house all night. My Model Y is sitting there with like 3 times as much juice in it doing nothing :(
I have a 201 Leaf with ChaDemo in the USA. It doesn't have much range (ok for local driving) but it sure would be useful to power my home when needed. But there just doesn't seem to be a turnkey thing that I can buy to connect to my home.
The Poms are doing it, so I would expect someone in the US would begin to provide it.
Will Prowse (DIY Solar Power) had a recent episode where he used his Ford Lightning to power his house using only the onboard AC "Pro Power" inverters at up to 10 kW. No special gateway involved. Just plugged into his house using a transfer switch.
You have been able to do this with a Tesla for years, BUT it breaks your battery warranty.
@@greghudson9717 How do you get 5 or 10 kW out of the Tesla?
@@MarkSpohr It's really simple. Plug a 12v DC to 240v AC inverter into the power socket. You then plug it into your home 240v socket (standard in Australia). Power is somewhat limited, but can be, and has been, done already... (Not by me though because it would void my battery warranty).
@@greghudson9717 That will give you 150 W max. which is pretty much useless. To run a house you need at least 5 kW which is what you can get from the Ford Propower and other V2x setups.
@@MarkSpohr You can get up to 2400 watts. I didn't say it could get to 5 or 10 kW using this method. We will have to wait for Tesla to release their V2HG plan I guess.
V2G and V2L, Tesla are crazy not to have this facility. They also need to stick a hatch on the back of the M3. The MY is not the only EV on the market any more.
The problem is quite simple
If the grid is down then how does the car know if it is still connected to the rest of the grid??
If the house (and car) is still connected and somebody goes to do some work on the dead grid wiring then they are at risk of electrocution
The House units come with a disconnect system to ensure that they can't do this
The only safe way to do this would be to require the homeowner to fit a disconnect module that can "talk" to the car - so buying and setting up a powerwall would probably be needed
V2G in a model y with 7 seater is an instant buy for me next year.
Same
Tesla has a box on their web site which says only works with cybertruck which does allow bidirectional power. It cost $2500.
Amusingly, if you own a powerwall, the Tesla charger will be installed on a separate non-backup circuit because the powerwall doesn’t have the capacity to charge it (battery is too small). For that reason, when the power goes out, the powerwall gateway probably can’t talk to the car, because that circuit has been intentionally cut off in an outage to prevent that from occurring. Consequently the car can’t energize the house.
I'm also waiting for V2H. Have looked at getting an old Nissan Leaf as it already has this function, but decided in the end to wait and see what might be announced on October 10.
Will be good cheers bro
V2G +FSD a strong plus for buying Tesla.
Don't forget Tesla is also selling those Powerwall batteries. The batteries in the car is 10X bigger than the Powerwalls so if you already have a Tesla car why would you buy the Powerwall battery? I bet that's the real reason why Tesla is dragging their feet on this. They don't want to compete against themselves.
V2H is what I want. The way the East Coast grid is heading I want to disconnect, had enough of power companies and the AEMO.
Why not get v2g, join amber and profit from it?
Sam you are missing something. I don't want V2G I want V2H.
I was wondering if it's the same thing does V2G unlock V2H?
and I was hoping to make a decent espresso with that 220V socket... I do have a 12V to 220v inverter for that. powering the house is on a whole other level that maybe a small minority would take advantage of
Sandy said the silicon was not in the car required for V2G
Kia EV3 can be ordered with V2H/V2G. But probably 3.6kW only.
that is still a lot of power.....I charge my car at 4kW's through the day and the house uses 0>75kW's, but I am in the tropics; not too cool.
Cybertruck has bidirectional charging enabled when using the universal wall connector.
The Model Y and 3 also don't have the same export power out to power much on your house, the Cybertruck does.
@@Illopp00ify MY and M3 could export 400V DC just by engaging the HV contactor, but you'd still need an expensive external box to invert it safely to provide AC.
@@ahavelandand a different universal wall connector, and dc wiring in your house, etc etc. Tesla isn’t doing it this watch it’ll be AC coupled with the inverter in the car just like they do with the cyber truck. Sam’s wrong, he doesn’t know how this works
@@ahaveland I already have 'expensive external box', its called an inverter, and changes the 450v DC coming off my solar panels into 240v AC that my house can use.
@@silverlex1 Few people really know how this works and there are many choices and ways to implement solutions.
230V AC coupling would be the most versatile for general purpose home or away use though it's lossy, and this is likely the lowest hanging fruit, but retroactively installing an inverter on EVs that weren't conceived with this in mind would be expensive.
HVDC-DC and direct connection would have less conversion losses and require thinner cables. When home and EV batteries become near equalized, a DC-DC converter can be bypassed to make a direct connection.
Also HVDC-DC can be proprietary as it would require certification because of the HV, so it's more tempting for a manufacturer to try to lock in the customer.
Thus only one inversion stage would be needed to send to the grid/home.
Just some thoughs.
An unspoken benefit of bi-directional charging is the possibility of buddy rescue.
This is the EV version of having a set of jumper leads in the boot of your Toyota.
At the moment, if you totally drain the charge in your Tesla battery, the car is immobile and you need an expensive tow to the nearest Supercharger facility.
Bi-directional charging would allow a buddy to rescue you by pulling up next to your car and decanting a bit of charge from his Tesla battery into your Tesla battery. Enough to get you home, perhaps, or to the nearest supercharger station. It's the modern equivalent of the one-gallon can.
V2G - and Schould MY Juniper REALLY get a 800 V System. All the SCs are Ready for that?
Gotta start somewhere. Oh ya Cybertruck.
V2L or V2G can kill Powerwall sales. That’s why its “inconvenient” for Tesla
Disagree. My powerwall is reserved just for my home use - when the weather is rubbish, it ties me over until (hopefully) the sun shines again. Here in the Uk, at best the average price paid by the grid for energy is about 50% of what it cost the customers. Some companies will pay much more but only at peak times, times when most homes want to use the power from their battery system.
It could boost sales dramatically if it is required to have a powerwall to dc connect to your tesla.
So does that mean v2g can be turned on and off by other external parties as societal and political and economic factors change? What guarantee does the ev buyer have once they have invested in a bidirectional charger and v2x ev? I’m not sure of the long term, did I miss something?
Does your new Xpeng G6 have v2g for potential future use in Australia?
Afternoon Sam
I think Powerwall 3 is a single phase unit only.
A lot of homes now have a "power inlet box" for their backup gas or solar generators that allows them to run their home in a power outage. All they need from Tesla is a 240V AC output with say 2000W and they can use that same "power inlet box" to power their homes. Folks like me who have a non Tesla, battery backed, solar power system, could transfer power from the Tesla to the home battery bank just as if it where coming from a backup generator.
2kW will not be enough. I turn my oven on, and it draws 2.6kW by itself. If the aircon, oven, dishwasher, washing machine, plus all normal loads TV, computers etc are on, I can easily hit 10+ kWh current draw. (I did it one day just to test). If I add my EV in, I can add another 77% to almost double the current required. The EV can draw up to 32 Amps at 240v (7.5kW limited by the EV wall box)
Some cars that can use vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology include:
Nissan Leaf
A Nissan model that can store electricity in its battery and send it back to the grid, a building, or other destination.
Hyundai Ioniq 5
A Hyundai model that can store sustainable energy in its batteries on a large scale.
Kia EV6
A Kia model that can feed energy back into the grid, in addition to receiving it.
Genesis GV60
A Genesis model that can power most household items using its vehicle-to-load function.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
A Mitsubishi model that comes with standard V2L charging and two 120-volt AC power outlets.
Hyundai Ioniq 6
A Hyundai model that's built on the Electric Global Modular Platform (E-GMP) and can transfer up to 3.6 kW of power to plug-in devices.
Ford F-150 Lightning
A Ford model that has V2H "vehicle to home" capabilities, and is expected to have V2G tech in the future.
Cybertruck
Nissan Leaf has exceptionally poor battery management, those cars rarely make it to 60k to 80k miles without damaging the battery, that's why used one sell so cheap. Adding additional load and wear to the battery with v2H isn't a good idea and I'm pretty sure it is the reason Nissan doesn't pursue it is because they don't want to pay for batteries under warranty when they fail prematurely with V2H.
Will tesla model 2 have this?
V2L is the only additional feature im interested in evs built today. The grid if needed can be a standby power source but no power produced by my solar setup will be send to the grid. Excess energy i see beter used for crypto mining
Why would you fill your car up with power, to send it back to your house? Why not just buy it when you need it? What is the benefit?
v2home would already be great!
for the moment i would not trust the utilities for v2g!
i would though trust vpp with tesla as they are a powerful force (electrical & negotiating) for the utilities to consider!
I would like to have DC or AC output from the battery.
I would prefer AC/DC output from my sound system!
Why not just use NACS port??
NACS is only for North America. It is not in Australia, or anywhere else in the world.
Tesla powerwalls absolutely do not have inverters in them. The point is that if you have a powerwall you have some other inverter also installed to make use of it, but it is always a separate component. It's possible that Tesla will only allow owners of a powerwall to make use of their cars v2g capability. This is not at all necessary but will preserve Tesla's sales of their very profitable powerwalls. If they just made it possible to use your car alone as a home battery then very few people would opt for a powerwall.
You need to read up on powerwalls again.
OK, Explain this... My solar panels output 450v DC. It goes into my solar inverter, and is changed to AC, which then goes into my Tesla gateway then powerwall. The powerwall batteries are DC, so either the gateway or the powerwall are converting the AC back into DC.
Powerwall 3…
I would be very disappointed if it were not available on the powerwall 2, obviously if the tech doesn’t support it at the moment I’d like to think that Tesla would make it possible to upgrade. I’d also like to think that valley mode will be made available on public roads so the car can take itself home to charge 😂
Not a biggie to charge bidirectionally. Should've been in all BEVs from the start. Seems like BEV manufacturers intentionally didn't do this so they can sell this as a feature.
It is not trivial. Sure, it can be done, but take a guess how big of a percentage of Leaf owners have used it.
Tesla didn't do V2HG so they could sell millions of Powewall batteries at hugely inflated prices. Note: I am a TSLA shareholder for 10+ years.
@@greghudson9717 That is one motivation and reason. But is it the 100% full explanation with no other factors? I don't think so.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 You motivated me to sell 40% of my TSLA shares last night, so you can call yourself an INFLUENCER !!!
If it can do this how about what they are calling "butt-to-butt resuscitation"; emergency vehicle to vehicle charging?
All EVs capable of DC fast charging cam do V2G. All it takes is a software change and an external inverter. Every Tesla ever built has this ability. In fact, the ultimate capacity would be at least 150A x 400v = 60KW or potentially 300A x 400v = 120KW.
Even the outlander 23 phev has V2G.Used in in their South Australia headquarters.This is not new but is being dragged out.What would be the cheapest EV with the biggest battery with V2X?xpeng etc chinese brands included...
Does Australia use CCS-1 or CCS-2 for public chargers?
CCS2
Regular V2G will degrade the batteries faster, coupled with reduced cyclelife of NCM batteries and a generous warranty, would result in increased warranty claims. There is a reason why V2G was dis-allowed and made part of the design decision initially. Now with other automakers, using the feature to boost sales has given a pause going forward with it. It will surely, be a feature going forward, but with additional disclaimers on warranty, to avoid regular use, and might even implement a non-resettable log on V2G sessions. Nothing prevents a determined one to wire up V2H(diy, even for older teslas), as a means of emergency power for few days.
"Nothing prevents a determined one to wire up V2H(diy, even for older teslas)" -how?
@@LaBambaCL just going from memory, but I think if you look up “Tesla penthouse” You will start getting some info in the right direction. Please note that doing this will void your battery warranty.
It's a real problem that home battery storage is ridiculously exorbitantly overpriced. The vendors of this space have managed to keep prices at least five times what they really ought to be. They're still charging about $1,000 per kilowatt hour. The wholesale price of the raw cells is now less than 1/10 of that, and raw cells make up 95% of the battery. (Chargers and inverters are all sold separately.) It would be great if the car manufacturers put some pressure on this space by opening up V2G and at least V2L. About the only vehicle that does this is the Ford Lightning so have to give some credit to Ford at least. Tesla I'm afraid is not likely to do this because it would affect sales of their super high profit margin home batteries.
Cybertruck does this.
I like this idea of V2G but I think we do have to consider its impact on battery degradation. EV battery life is measured in battery cycle life and so V2G will add to the cycles of charge/discharge, potentially shortening the life of the battery, though I couldn’t say how significant this would be. Also, Depth of Discharge can affect the rate of degradation so I hope it is accompanied by a smart system that will avoid deeper discharges. Maybe the money you get back from the power company for V2G will more than offset the (minor?) battery degradation?
DC bidirectional seems lot easier, as the CCS (and Tesla NACS, CCS-compatible at least), standards support this?... BUT, you need not just software/protocols enabled in the car, but also (very expensive) DC-AC inverter on the wall of the house, besides normal transfer/disconnect switches to disconnect from grid if needed (power house during outage)...
dcBel, Enphase, Wallbox, Autel, some others have these, or at least coming soon ...but they are expensive. PowerWall3 has powerful inverter as noted, but... it's not connected directly to the car via charger?
AC V2L on the car, is much easier, though power limited... CyberTruck has the PowerShare feature, but you need the right Tesla wall charger.
Ford the f150 lighting has V to G and V to Home
It's trivial to flip the relay on a Tesla to make 400+ volts appear on the DC port. Of course, there are a lot of protections involved to make sure this only happens when a connector is detected and authenticated. Sounds like the easiest thing for Tesla to do is to add the capability to accept the 400V and invert that for use on the grid through their powerwalls - only a small software mod would be required on the car, and they could make more money selling powerwalls.
However, what people really want is for the car to provide several kW of AC itself, and I would be very surprised if any Tesla apart from the CT has an inverter installed and configured.
Agree. Well, you need a little bit of hardware to get the DC from the battery to the inside of the Powerwall, so it is a little more than a Powerwall and a software update.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 It's called a cable!
and connector(s). The new powerwall is supposed to contain the hardware, I assume.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Actually it's probably easy. My Model Y battery is DC, and my Powerwall2 is also DC, so no conversion to AC is required. In fact, my solar is also DC, so I should really convert all my appliances in the home to DC and forget all this AC crap ;-)
@@greghudson9717 A lot of your appliances are already DC. Everything is a computer these days, and they all run on DC. Lights are LED, those are DC. All the rechargeable stuff or the things you stuff full of batteries, very much DC. Fancy stuff with electric motors in them? The good stuff have regulated AC motors run by power electronics that lives on... DC, like the motors of a modern electric car. What is left? Simple resistive heating works fine on DC. Anything with a power brick is just trying to get DC these days. But none of it is simple, of course, except for in principle. 😁
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 I've heard of people converting whole houses to DC but I don't think I could do it (too old) :-{
Sandy Munro has already shown how the Tesla model 3 ECU was designed to accommodate bi-directional charging & V2G/V2H back when he first tore it down. All it would take is swapping a few diodes with transistors and bob's your uncle.
The worry for Tesla is that doing so WILL cannibalize a good chunk of their Powerwall sales, AND will add more charge/discharge cycles onto EV batteries, decreasing their lifespans.
Tesla will sell far fewer powerwalls when V2G is available.
More, you mean. Since you would probably need the Powerwall inverter to do this?
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 There is supposed to be a inverter like the Ford one that doesn’t require a power wall. However, if Tesla does make us buy a power wall they will still only sell one per household.
@@frankcoffey There is for the Cybertruck. That doesn't help S3XY, since it uses the on board inverters, just like Ford. If Tesla sell one Powerwall per household, that is a metric XXXX-ton of Powerwalls. To quote Tesla: "For homes not equipped with Powerwall, a Universal Wall Connector and Powershare Gateway will be required to use Powershare Home Backup." (The Cybertruck product.)
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 I already have the Powerwall, the Gateway, and a Model Y. I just wish they would turn V2H on :-(
The only inconvenience V2G will bring is to the big utility companies who want to keep everyone in the stranglehold they've had on us all for so long forcing us all to buy electricity from them.
Every car with DC charging is V2X capable! Not Tesla specific... It is already possible to draw energy out of the Tesla battery. But you will lose your guarantee...
In the US V2G needs to be worked out with each utility which are state based [some multistate], in some cases one or two companies in others they can have many based on counties and run by Public Utility Districts [PUD's, which are owned by the residents in essence]. For profit entities pricing and tax credits for infrastructure are regulated by a state board [PUD can apply for tax credits but generally have better pricing and refund profits to it's users for the sale of power on the market]. V2H is what the cybertruck can do and from what Tesla has released they have sort of made that available but not always. This may have changed? But they have added some strange verbiage about its use to its contracts, which forbid its use as a regular source of power but only in emergencies. Early on, and it may still be that way, if you have powerwall's they were not letting you use the truck as a back up.
Currently Kia EV9's and the Wallbox Quasar team are working with a utility to validate the system for V2G. Kia has pushed back US manufacturing of the EV9 till next year so that they can have batteries made here and get full tax credits rather than deduct $7500 off the purchase price themselves on current EV's. Since cars sit 95% of their lives waiting to be used having them back up grids is a no brainer that has been stalled at the national level for two decades now in the US by big oil and the politicians they buy with donations.
Best comment so far! Utilities have a stranglehold on v2g. They are for profit and v2g would not be in their best interest. Eventually it will happen with Tesla but I believe they are fighting quietly in the background to get certification as a power company per state.
As a renter without solar, I just want v2l from my model 3. I don’t really care about v2g.
I still hate it they cant be native and make them buy a separate product gatekeeping with software when it could save lives now... especially with the typhoon that just went through Asia
Just to be clear "Power" is energy per second. Power per second makes no sense unless one were talking about the rate of change of power. For the future, the units of power are kW (kilowatt) and the units of energy are kWh (Kilowatt hour). So to make it simple, the concept of "power" is how fast your battery can deliver or absorb energy. And energy tells you how far your car can go. It's a little like acceleration vs speed in a car.
Wrong, power is an instantaneous value, got nothing to do with a second 😂😂😂😂. Back to high school electrical theory for you 😅
@@JboKit A simple question for you. Why do think a watt is defined as a joule per second? 😁
I'm a huge Tesla fan, I own two of his vehicles a model less and a y. I want to list to get the test apparel wall and solar roof. But my issue with Tesla and actually it's with Elon is that everybody assumes that he is doing the right thing for the environment but I think he's doing the right thing for himself and his company. Right now doing the right thing for his company is aligned with doing the right thing for the environment and it's consumers. That is right now when Tesla dominates the EV market and the solar market and the battery market which he will do. He will not be passing on the savings and looking out for his consumers or the environment like he does now. An example of that is when vehicle to grid was becoming popular by consumers meaning everybody found out about it and wanted it he was asked in an interview why don't his cars have it. And he said that consumers don't want it and that it would not get put in because it's a waste of money. This is in an interview Google it. And the reason why was because he was trying to get the test of power walls up and running and if everybody thought that their car was going to be able to be vehicle to grid capable they wouldn't buy a test of powerwall. Was that the right thing to do for his company Yes but that's what I mean he looks out for himself and his company just like the CEO of Ford just like the CEO of Chevy just like the CEO of BMW and Volkswagen. He just has the balance that because he's not number one. But as soon as he becomes number one like Ford was he will act just like they do selfish ly
I dont need V2G
V2H vehicle to home is enough for it
No, it doesn't make sense. Very expensive to connect to the home legally.
As far as i know, tesla’s haven’t got V2G. Munro (as we all know) took the Model 3/Y and investigated specifically bi-directional charging. The charge circuit was (and is) unfortunately not equipped with the possibility for V2G. So either they changed the charging hardware since 2021, either it’s still not in there vehicles. Hopefully they will in the near future, i would love this helpful function, i would use it a lot, maybe even on a daily basis.
It seems this is a different thing: Getting DC power out of the battery. Still requires an inverter outside the car before we get to AC for the grid..
hmm..."capable" and "practical" are two different things. Seems that what you're saying is that Tesla cars have big batteries....no surprise there. Absent a means to tap into the battery, the fact that the battery is there is of little consequence.
Been telling people for years this is not a issue for Tesla
V2G is not allowed yet in Australia, still waiting for the rules to change 😒
Years away - except maybe SA.
isn’t it permitted in SA?
In the UK my understanding is as follows:
Some vehicle manufacturers other than nissan (Skoda and probably therefore VW, Audi etc) have activated V2G via there CCS ports.
There is one (I think) household charger which supports V2G.
The issue comes with grid outages.
If your house isn't wired up properly, you could be exporting power to the grid while some unfortunate engineer is attempting to diagnose and fix the grid fault, assuming that the circuit is dead. Potentially a lethal combination.
Household batteries and PV inverters are wired up so that doesn't happen.
Also, Skoda, to maintain their battery warranty, restricts the number of V2G cycles before they kill the function.
If anyone knows otherwise feel free to correct me.
@@peejayem4700 it’s still only a trial on South Australia the company that is supplying the equipment is called jet charge in Victoria and when you can buy the equipment it’s about $10,000. Another company had the equipment on display at The everything electric show in Sydney and I think it was even more than $10,000 from them.
Just because it is not allowed, doesn't mean it can't be done. (It has been possible for years)
1st gen Leaf batteries are easily replaced on the cheap so not bad. The Tesla charging port under the seat is not there for customers so don't hold your breath.
All great ideas. Theoretically. Installation and equipment cost will be crazy in Australia. Only relevant for home owners.
What about warranty and repairs on all of these new car brands in Australia? Has any of these been tested? Some brands don't even exist as long as their warranty..
What are insurance costs if 40% of value sits in a single part underneath your car (write off risks).
High innovation rate brings high loss of value for EV owners. Battery and tech likely be outdated in 2-3 years. Most people cant buy +50K $ cars like mobile phones. New one every 3 years, old one to tbe bin or hand down to kids.
This might very well be the future but battery prices will need to come down significantly before this 'ecosystem' becomes practical for the average Australian.
If the Nissan LEAF "isn't a particularly great EV", why WOULDN'T one want to buy a LEAF "just for the bidirectional charging feature alone"?
Maybe you would, but you would also buy expensive electronics to be installed at your house, that works with the now mostly dead standard Chademo. Maybe you could get that used and in decent condition, too? Old Leafs that have not been run in hot climates are good value for local use, though. Roadtrips are for the brave and patient.
You only need the Leaf battery not the whole car.
@@greghudson9717 That sort of takes the fun and the V out of V2G. But of course, technically very true.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 As for the long road trips, that's almost all I do. 44,000km in 2 years in my Tesla Model Y, most of that in the outback (or well off the beaten EV track at least).
Munro did a teardown video of Tesla's. What I understood is that they didn't fimd any V2G technolog in older Tesla's. But that means there's a whole lot of Tesla's that will not be able to cinnect to the grid. I have doubts that retrofitting older Tesla's will meaningfully add older batches to the grid. I think only new EV owners from the last 12 months onwards will truly be able to inclusively ebjoy the fruuts of a future grid cinnection and likely also newer owners. The r3st of society is still trying to transition and will have to wait for EV grid connection a while longer. I do believe we might see a growth in third party EV repair as people get fed up of having to keep investing in a new Ev every 12 months and want to drive cheaper longer by driving their EV longer. If the science is correct EV can drive longer and last longer than ice vehicles. But the strange thing is we do still talk about new EVs like ice cars because we still expect to change EVs every 1-5 years? What's up with that?
Currently, if you use too much battery power outside of the Tesla’s computer, your car will throw a battery error and stop running.
A sudden heavy load on the low voltage side? If I was a Tesla, I would get scared, too.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 The low voltage side is not powerful enough to handle the Amps required. Power needs to come from the 400v side.
I think we're going to see the cost of Used Tesla's increase because of this hidden GOLD. I also think that once we have enough data, Tesla's will have proved themselves to be a Long-Lasting automobile. The challenge has been not enough data to support the Durability of Tesla's. Once that data is available and proves how long they'll last, the price of Used Tesla's is going to increase almost overnight.
I wish.
V2G is a bit like nuclear fusion. Always a couple of years away (well nuclear fusion always 20 years away). Sure CHADeMO has a standard but the CCS group seems strangely reticent to get off their asses and make it a standard. Endless trials with zero movement.
Another game changer? Nope, more of the same EVs are the future hype.
😂 thanks 🤡
teslaunch.net/products/v2l-discharge-device-for-tesla-model-3-y-s-x-north-america-version?variant=46423184867551
Lots of delusional dreams 😂😂
I don't know about everyone else but an option for extra degradation on my EV is a hard pass.
The limiting factor is calendar life, not cycle life.
Wont be an issue
7 year old Model X, almost exclusively supercharged (FUSC), still no issues with 110k on the clock. I'd participate in V2X immediately, you are jumping at shadows with this degradation nonsense
Tesla has not V2G!!!