I personally carry HST in 45. But I have to say that both the other rounds were far beyond anything you used to find in terms of consistent results that can do the job.
Love HST. It's all I've carried for the last 8yrs or so. I've shot thousands and thousands of HST rounds over the years in 9mm 124/147gr standard and plus P. .40cal in 135/155/165/180gr and . 357sig in 125gr. 45acp in of course 230gr. All are amazing and extremely consistent. Thank you Federal for this ammunition.
The temporary cavity created by the HST is without question the nastiest, along with the Winchester Ranger T series. Pause the video at 1:22/1:23. The flowering effect of the expanding bullet creates razor like edges that give a distinctive pattern in the gel. Picture this being center mass. With Ribs, and bone I don't think it would penetrate through, but the temp cavity was 6" wide at it's max. That's a lot of trauma people. The thing that impresses me the most is how the results are so similar between the plain gel, demon, and dry wall. Consistency is what I'm looking for when I purchase ammunition, and HST nails it. This is the only personal defense ammo I use.
yes, and the temporary cavity in gel has nothing to do with real world performance. the channel width and depth after everything has settled is ALL that matters. no such things as remote wounding capabilities or energy transfer wounds.
helterskelter416 actually, even the final cavity after it settles means nothing. The “wound track” will not be that large, only the width of the expanded bullet diameter, at best. So not only is ‘stretch cavity’ not existent, all the deformity in gel is of no value in handgun loads. Penetration depth, expanded diameter and final weight, nothing more. But don’t tell people (shhh) because then they’ll know Lehigh makes gimmick rounds.
I just put a couple 9mm 124gr. HST standard pressure rounds through a chronograph and they cam out faster than the rated velocity of 1,150, they averaged 1,178 out of a 4.1" barrel on a VP9. There was a noticeable recoil difference from the 124gr. practice ammo with around 1,100 FPS but still very manageable, it's a 9mm after all.
Competitor y is NOT gold dot. Those look like winchester t-series to me. x is hornady. Think about it federal and speer are both ATK products so they are probably not going to bash each other.
@@SuperD00D and I bet u are a glock fanboy two, u fuck faces just can’t help your selfs , you all are like a brainwashed lefty democrat worshiping at the alter of your favorite politician,
for those of you who think this isn’t a big difference, consider this: damage and chance of a critical hit (like damaging an artery or central nervous system component) go up exponentially because the “Area” calculation is: Area = (radius)squared x pie therefore: Comp X Area = .50 sq-inches Comp Y Area = .52 sq-inches Fed HST Area = .63 sq-inches therefore: Fed HST vs Comp X .63/.50 = 1.26 = 126% = 26% more Area Fed HST vs Comp Y .63/.52 = 1.21 = 121% = 21% more Area Conclusion: Fed HST does 26% more damage and has a 26% greater chance at a critical hit than Comp X. Fed HST does 21% more damage and has a 21% greater chance at a critical hit than Comp Y. When every shot counts... i ALWAYS use Fed HST. :)
I bought some yesterday for my Glock 21 yesterday. This is a very good round in 45 acp. I remember many years ago the Black Talon round. for what ever reason it was changed to Ranger Talon. Now it's too expensive to buy and hard to find.
U have to hit the gun shows up for both.i found a Guy sell the New black Talent which is the ranger t series and nobody was buying them cause they where in the new box that is black and BLUE til I walked up and bought like 3 boxes of 50rounds each
The expanded projectiles from the competitors look shorter after expansion than the HST. I would hope that the competitors weren't 185gr bullets vs 230gr HST. All that is mentioned is weight retention, not actual bullet weights.
Competitor Y looks to be a Speer Gold Dot, which has been a great choice for many years. Will the HST be available in 10mm? I would also like to mention that the HST's plastic box design is a pain in the ass to open. I'd like to see them put in a more traditional and more cost effective style packaging, and also be available in 50 round boxes. Thanks for the video. Hopefully you'll be uploading .40 and 9mm as well?
Competitor x is likely Hornady critical defense. I'm pretty sure I can see the flex tip coming off the projectile and the weight retention is indicative of the loss of the flex tip. As for Competitor y, it looks like gold dot or win Pdx1, but typically Pdx1 seems to have even more penetration.
Nah X looks nothing like the hornady rounds, its gold dot or sig v crown. Leaning gold dot because of the 2 “lines” running down each petal, but the way you can see some jacket is reminiscent of a v crown. Hard to say as those two look almost identical when expanded. Y is some type of winchester for sure, either pdx1 or t-series
It looks to me like Y is Gold Dot, and X might be Win PDX-1 (my best guess). Prettu sure it is not either of the Hornady CD rounds- Duty doesn't seem to expand quite that much, plus i don't see the red plugs in the gel. Anyway, no real matter. Independent testing i have seen here and elsewhere supports that HST is great ammo- the bullets seem to always look alike, and very consistent. The expansion is fantastic, especially combined with the penetration. Hard to go wrong.
Bounce back* The bullet would go 14," but it would bounce back 1;" then you'd call it at where it ended up! It traveled 14," so you gotta give credit when credits due :-)
Competitor Y outperformed the hst in the simulated wall board test. But all three are excellent performers I do choose to carry the HST though it is priced fairly and velocity is very uniform compared to some other "premium" self defense loads.
I would prefer the Gold Dot over HST, I carry both. The HST are a bit cheaper, so I don't mind paying less for the HST over the Gold Dot. Both are 9mm in 124gr +P.
So after all these last several years , it still looks like HST and Gold Dot are the standard in self defense ammo. For me , Underwood Defender is the true number ONE once you learn of its benefits and advantages , but it is still a sleeper in the community I find.
In 9mm I'm happy with it especially after testing on some pork ribs ,but I noticed the back pressure blowing pieces out the front , seems like it would effect the permanent wound channel ? Other videos showing same effect had HUGE channels when gel was sliced open .
I wish ammo manufacturers would get rid of those stupid 20 round boxes and only make 50 round boxes. Citizens get ripped off with high charges for a 20 round box, yet government pays the same or less for a 50 round box. WHY?
People love the perfect looking post shot flower pattern that the HST exemplifies, BUT there are other 45 rounds out there that penetrate deeper due to less expansion. (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc) It's always a trade-off.
+the777 not expanding and over penetration is NOT the desired performance! That is a failure! If you don't expand and STOP 12-17 inches then you are NOT dumping your terminal energy into the target. You are simply making a small hole and then should just use ball ammo.
Viking Dog Agree......BUT, as most are trained to do (shoot center mass...ie torso), there is a 50% chance you will hit a rib. So I would be more inclined to use a round that expands a bit less for that added velocity to smash through a rib into the vital organs. Shutting down the CNS is the only goal.
that's exactly why I like it, dumps the energy fast. wouldn't carry HST in the woods, but on the street it's all I would carry unless a gun is picky with it.
Too bad Federal is price gouging us! A 20 round box of 9mm HST costs $30 locally and even more on Federals website while the "law enforcement only" 50 round boxes sell for a few more dollars online. I am done buying Federal and Vista products until they change this policy...I have switched all my defense ammo to Sig Sauer and my target ammo to smaller companies. You know, companies that actually care about their customers? Even Hornady's 25 round boxes cost less than Federals 20 round boxes. I will switch back to Federal when the price gouging stops. You cant even use covid as an excuse anymore, prices have come way down since the pandemic. There is no excuse to charge $1.50-2.00 per round at this point
I order ammunition for my department. Most of the vendors in the US that advertise for sale online don't restrict unless you don't live in one of the free States. I've ordered with a credit card for some purchases. Currently, a 1000 round case of Fed 9mm 147 grn HST standard pressure is $799. While I can't provide a link ... the name includes the word Ammunition and Depot ... just saying. It's $39.99 for a box of 50.
Competitor Y is not gold dot. God dots penetrate way more than that. Also, Speer and Federal are part of the same organization so why would they be trying to make each other look bad?
Are rhe “competitors” winchester ranger and sig sauer elite performance? It doesnt look xtp or ftx and it wouldn’t be gold dot cuz federal is the same company as Speer
Yes, it seems the Federal HST is slightly better but if you think that makes any difference in the lethality of the three competitors, you are wrong. A consistent good shot placement obtained after lots of training is way more important than that, even more than choosing .45 acp or 40 s&w instead 9 mm Luger.
other than the hard plastic case this ammo comes in because it is very difficult to open the HSTs from Federal are some really nasty rounds all the feedback and stats from other channels look the same as this test-these HSTs are the best of the best!!!
I'm assuming these were 147 gr bullets. I use the 124 gr HST in my 9mm carry pistol because I can't find the 147 gr in local stores. Every test video I've seen, through every possible medium shows them to be the most consistent in expansion and penetration.
What a dummy!!! Right at the beginning of the video, there was a captioned stating that all test were done from a Glock 21, .45acp rounds. C'mon man!!!
so what is better for 9mm? HST hollow point, HST +P hollow point, or hydro shok hollow point? When it comes to personal defense? I'm really lost on this one. and is .45 better in that category by default?
Honestly, the best ones are the ones that hit the target area. Buy what you can afford to shoot and then shoot a lot until it feels natural. Most folks buy ammo that is better than they are, which equals wasted money.
147 grain HST in standard pressure [ non +p ]. tnoutdoors9 has tests on more than 20 124 gr and 147 gr loads. 147 penetrates 1 inch more on average. Also quieter because they're subsonic. Might make a difference , especially inside .Hydrashock often clogs with denim and doesnt expand.
Not meaning to nit pick, and I know this takes extra time and expense, but a valid scientific study is replicated. Just because it happened once doesn't mean it will happen again. It would be nice to see some reps, though I realize this may be impractical for a lot of folks. But don't police departments choose their ammo because of the way it performs numerous times and not because of just one shooting? I guess looking at numerous vids from different people will get me my reps. Thanks for the vid.
Thank you Federal Ammunition! We at KCPD rely on and trust our lives to the HST. Could you disclose who Competitor Y and X are? I, as well as my Co-Workers would like to RID ourselves of any of it, that we may own. Thank You again.
@@robison87 Gold Dot and PDX1 were the others. The Critical Duty has much less expansion when tested. The Critical Defense is not recommended by Hornady for LE use.
@@boostimalaka1 Yeah personally I'm not sure. Just seeing what others wrote. I use the federal hst in 124 grain for my edc and also use the hst for my .45. I have many other brands, but my second choice would be either gold dot or ranger, but I don't have any of the ranger T.
@@robison87 For civilian carry the Hornady Critical Defense will work fine. The only downside to the Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty is much less expansion when compared to the Gold Dot, HST, Golden Saber and Winchester PDX1.
@@Ogrematic I see. Yeah i got a glock 30s which is chambered in .45. Very nice gun, but yeah ammo, especially self defense rounds are ridiculously priced.
@@Ogrematic yes exactly and that is just plinking rounds at least where I am at in central Pennsylvania. The federal HST 9mm on that site is $35 for 20 rounds....it is a shame that common caliber rounds are about 80 cents to $1 a round now on average here.
Just don't buy the 150 grain "micro" 9mm HST. That stuff when used in small CCW pistols it is supposedly designed for over penetrates and doesn't expand. The 124 grain however is excellent in both standard pressure and +p loadings and the 147 grain gives descent performance as well.
Federal premium is really turning out to be some awesome ammo. Obviously after watching this video u can see the handgun ammo is the best. Competitor y is speer gold dot and x is hornady critical defense duty. Federal premium 308 with sierra SMK is just about the best factory rifle ammo period.. Norma usa match is the only equal. Black hills is garbage now overpriced garbage it use to be good but with federal premium beating their price and ballistics its garbage. Federal has really turned out awesome ammo accross the board over the last few years. Hst plus p can be gotten in 50rnd boxes for $21-26 in 9mm-45acp and that is an amazing prixe point cheap enough to sgoot at range for practice now and then. Bonefroggunclub has it at these prices! Shippinf is not bad either flat rate $13
+Eric Warner no i am Not i also knew the one was gold dot and assumed critical defense was the next best round i know their expansion and weight retention is very close... But it might be winchester bonded or whatever
+Shawn p you said it was Hornady "hornady critical defense duty" they actually make a critical duty which is 220 grains and a critical defense which is 185 grains
+westbury09 yea i forgot the backslash inbetween. I said that because it is possible the used critical defense to make hst look better. Critical duty is more designed for police and penetrating heavy clothing, but who knows which one was used.
To bad the 9mm 150 grain performs so bad. Wish I would never had bought that particular sku. Most the rest HST is pretty good except you still have rounds I think you only sell to LEOs. I have 40sw 180 LEO but I wish you would make it more available.
The 150 grain HST is designed for use in Micro Pistols with 3” barrels. A few tests prove it to be effective in ballistic gel tests. The 147 grain is meant for service pistols with 4” barrels.
Y outperformed the HST in 2/3 tests...HST expanded *slightly* more but expansion isn't everything... I'd want penetration first, then expansion. Y looks like either Gold dots or PDX1. Either way, any of those 3 (HST, gold dots, pdx1) are great choices
Yes i I have a long range rifle the only ammo that gives me consitatnt groupings federal match grade ammo federal is a great company and turn out high quality ammo
I’ve seen these round fail so many times after encountering bone that I just don’t trust them. Those long cuts in the bullet just fold up and don’t expand. Everybody I know has bones.
What hollow points do you use that perform better through bone? I know hornady critical duty +p would do better through bone but it doesn't expand nearly as well.
Do those differences between the three really make you less or more dead? Does 99% weight retention do any less damage than 100% retention? Expanding .050" less than the other really make a difference? One inch less penetration? I know numbers are numbers, but any one of those three would tear a human body to sheds. I can imagine the shooter going up to the target and doing a facepalm "damnit! It only went 10" into his chest, not eleven like the test said it would!" lol
If you think a Glock is a concealed carry self-defense weapon, this ammo shows promise. If you are not performing a law enforcement carry, but need something which will expand at subsonic speeds, is this going to meet your needs? You be the judge.
Thank you Federal so much for Consistently producing the best ammo available.
I personally carry HST in 45. But I have to say that both the other rounds were far beyond anything you used to find in terms of consistent results that can do the job.
Love HST. It's all I've carried for the last 8yrs or so. I've shot thousands and thousands of HST rounds over the years in 9mm 124/147gr standard and plus P. .40cal in 135/155/165/180gr and . 357sig in 125gr. 45acp in of course 230gr. All are amazing and extremely consistent. Thank you Federal for this ammunition.
Dang why wousld you ever use that much money shooting SD ammo when you could be storing it and buying fmj for target shooting?
Well I wouldn’t be to considered about what someone does with their own money.
funnier still is sonny said that 4 years ago. lol!
@@JTheraos Um, he's a LEO. Read the post.
love the +p hst and the 125 in 357 sig it's a beast
Thanks for actually making an affordable hollow point I can actually afford to train and shoot with in my carry gun. Hornady take some notes
This guys voice and lisp is soothing to me.
When is Federal planning debut a 200gr 10mm HST? Many of us are waiting patiently
Federal has always been my favorite ammo and component company. I just wish they would offer more bullets for hand loaders.
Oh shit its Gun Sam! Gun Legend right here
Great video. This backs up data I have been able to gather from other sources. This is what I have decided to carry
Federal HST is the best.
HST, Gold Dots or DPx are my 3 top choices in no particular order.
The temporary cavity created by the HST is without question the nastiest, along with the Winchester Ranger T series. Pause the video at 1:22/1:23. The flowering effect of the expanding bullet creates razor like edges that give a distinctive pattern in the gel. Picture this being center mass. With Ribs, and bone I don't think it would penetrate through, but the temp cavity was 6" wide at it's max. That's a lot of trauma people. The thing that impresses me the most is how the results are so similar between the plain gel, demon, and dry wall. Consistency is what I'm looking for when I purchase ammunition, and HST nails it. This is the only personal defense ammo I use.
yes, and the temporary cavity in gel has nothing to do with real world performance. the channel width and depth after everything has settled is ALL that matters. no such things as remote wounding capabilities or energy transfer wounds.
helterskelter416 actually, even the final cavity after it settles means nothing. The “wound track” will not be that large, only the width of the expanded bullet diameter, at best. So not only is ‘stretch cavity’ not existent, all the deformity in gel is of no value in handgun loads. Penetration depth, expanded diameter and final weight, nothing more. But don’t tell people (shhh) because then they’ll know Lehigh makes gimmick rounds.
I just put a couple 9mm 124gr. HST standard pressure rounds through a chronograph and they cam out faster than the rated velocity of 1,150, they averaged 1,178 out of a 4.1" barrel on a VP9. There was a noticeable recoil difference from the 124gr. practice ammo with around 1,100 FPS but still very manageable, it's a 9mm after all.
Great video full of info and well put together.
HST has been my carry load for a few years now. I carry it in my Canik STX9m.
Competitor y is NOT gold dot. Those look like winchester t-series to me. x is hornady. Think about it federal and speer are both ATK products so they are probably not going to bash each other.
Neither is Ranger T
They in fact ARE Ranger T-Series.
I agree that they are PDX1. I haven’t seen the ranger t with the gold dot in the middle before but the PDX1 bonded bullets all do.
Y Looks like some sxt I shot a while back
where is car door and windshield test?
You guys are looking for Paul Herrell
delavega92 Want you send them a car door & a windshield for testing I bet you anything they would accept it !!!
HST, PDX1, Gold Dots in that order has been my experience. HST might be the most consistent round ever.
Hst's are just beautiful expanded
Looks like competitor "Y" was Speer Gold-Dot, and it also performed quite well overall.
No comp. Y was not a Speer Gold Dot
Y is a gold dot look at the gold dot in the center and the gold strokes going down the open pedals
@@buddysumner4022ya’ll are .. wow… it’s obviously a Winchester.. it literally has the talons >.>. Blind…. X is the gold dot
@@SuperD00D and I bet u are a glock fanboy two, u fuck faces just can’t help your selfs , you all are like a brainwashed lefty democrat worshiping at the alter of your favorite politician,
for those of you who think this isn’t a big difference, consider this:
damage and chance of a critical hit (like damaging an artery or central nervous system component) go up exponentially because the “Area” calculation is:
Area = (radius)squared x pie
therefore:
Comp X Area = .50 sq-inches
Comp Y Area = .52 sq-inches
Fed HST Area = .63 sq-inches
therefore:
Fed HST vs Comp X
.63/.50 = 1.26 = 126% = 26% more Area
Fed HST vs Comp Y
.63/.52 = 1.21 = 121% = 21% more Area
Conclusion:
Fed HST does 26% more damage and has a 26% greater chance at a critical hit than Comp X.
Fed HST does 21% more damage and has a 21% greater chance at a critical hit than Comp Y.
When every shot counts... i ALWAYS use Fed HST. :)
It's what I carry. But PLEASE get rid of those hand blender plastic boxes!
I bought some yesterday for my Glock 21 yesterday. This is a very good round in 45 acp. I remember many years ago the Black Talon round. for what ever reason it was changed to Ranger Talon. Now it's too expensive to buy and hard to find.
Do you live in Israel or the U.S.?
Im just curious about what self defense ammo is available there.
Thanks.
U have to hit the gun shows up for both.i found a Guy sell the New black Talent which is the ranger t series and nobody was buying them cause they where in the new box that is black and BLUE til I walked up and bought like 3 boxes of 50rounds each
20-round boxes are garbage. Make the 50 round boxes standard and release heavier weights.
They mustve listened, they have the hst's in 50 round boxes now
They have hst 147 grain in 50 round boxes
Look at a ballistics chart. Heavier = less power. And if you have a sub compact you lose expansion.
The expanded projectiles from the competitors look shorter after expansion than the HST. I would hope that the competitors weren't 185gr bullets vs 230gr HST. All that is mentioned is weight retention, not actual bullet weights.
I thought about that. Most hollow points look the same to me in gel.
Competitor Y looks to be a Speer Gold Dot, which has been a great choice for many years.
Will the HST be available in 10mm?
I would also like to mention that the HST's plastic box design is a pain in the ass to open. I'd like to see them put in a more traditional and more cost effective style packaging, and also be available in 50 round boxes.
Thanks for the video. Hopefully you'll be uploading .40 and 9mm as well?
There are 50 round cardstock boxes on the market sold under Federal Premium Law Enforcement Tactical.
HST is available in 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 Auto, and 357 Sig.
And yes, HST is available in 50 round boxes through LE markets.
It means nothing without the meat target :)
Whippy it's badass on ribs test
Ballistic gel is comparable to meat
It needs to get thru the oranges and the back layer of pork rubs, and be stopped by the t-shirt! :)
@Earl Lee Yeah and it didn't do well at all. Golden sabers wiped the floor with it
I live by Hst! superior ammo. 180gr are devastating!
Competitor x is likely Hornady critical defense. I'm pretty sure I can see the flex tip coming off the projectile and the weight retention is indicative of the loss of the flex tip. As for Competitor y, it looks like gold dot or win Pdx1, but typically Pdx1 seems to have even more penetration.
Nah X looks nothing like the hornady rounds, its gold dot or sig v crown. Leaning gold dot because of the 2 “lines” running down each petal, but the way you can see some jacket is reminiscent of a v crown. Hard to say as those two look almost identical when expanded.
Y is some type of winchester for sure, either pdx1 or t-series
Y is gold dot, and X is SXT all are pretty badass
Good stuff! I use HST +P in my 1911.
And don't forget that ranger t by Winchester.i have both in my 1911
It looks to me like Y is Gold Dot, and X might be Win PDX-1 (my best guess). Prettu sure it is not either of the Hornady CD rounds- Duty doesn't seem to expand quite that much, plus i don't see the red plugs in the gel. Anyway, no real matter. Independent testing i have seen here and elsewhere supports that HST is great ammo- the bullets seem to always look alike, and very consistent. The expansion is fantastic, especially combined with the penetration. Hard to go wrong.
Id say Y is a winchester and X is sig sauer elite performance v crown. Speer and Federal are the same comlany
Y is def winchester x could be gold dot or v crown one of those. Y is absolutelt a winchester
Bounce back* The bullet would go 14," but it would bounce back 1;" then you'd call it at where it ended up! It traveled 14," so you gotta give credit when credits due :-)
+Justin Todd I agree
Todd I disagree
Cool . But you make multiple different versions of this round so which one were you using did I miss that part?
Competitor Y outperformed the hst in the simulated wall board test. But all three are excellent performers I do choose to carry the HST though it is priced fairly and velocity is very uniform compared to some other "premium" self defense loads.
Its always HST's or Gold Dots for me. Gold dots do everything well but HST's constantly shine in every test I've ever seen.
+jordanaug81 agreed !!!! I like cor-bon DPX, Winchester Ranger -T too and even Train + Defend in 147gr.
I would prefer the Gold Dot over HST, I carry both. The HST are a bit cheaper, so I don't mind paying less for the HST over the Gold Dot. Both are 9mm in 124gr +P.
excellent video. This is my carry ammo.
So after all these last several years , it still looks like HST and Gold Dot are the standard in self defense ammo. For me , Underwood Defender is the true number ONE once you learn of its benefits and advantages , but it is still a sleeper in the community I find.
In 9mm I'm happy with it especially after testing on some pork ribs ,but I noticed the back pressure blowing pieces out the front , seems like it would effect the permanent wound channel ? Other videos showing same effect had HUGE channels when gel was sliced open .
Federal 180 JHP HST 40sw bullets look like "osterizer blades" after they stop in Gel!!!
john jason Chun I carry the 180 grn 40SW HST's in all my EDC pistols 👍👍👍
How about a .357 Mag and .38 sp HST round? What's the hold up????
filoIII 38spl is already out been buying it for several months now. Walmart is the only place I’ve found it so far, $24.37 a box
If it's good enough for the F.B.I. then it's good enough for me
Winchester Ranger T is probably HST's closest competitor.
+filoIII Yea, but you cant find them really. That makes the HST that much more attractive. It's not 1.50 a round, and plentiful.
+HachiZenki You just got robbed.
I order all mine online.
+HachiZenki Freedom Munitions SGAmmo Sportmansguide. NONE ship to your state????? Where do you live??
HachiZenki I paid 50 cent per bullet. You got shit on.
Y is for sure gold dot, x is either critical duty or Winchester defender
This is the only Cartridge I use in .45 ACP. for personal defense.
I wish ammo manufacturers would get rid of those stupid 20 round boxes and only make 50 round boxes. Citizens get ripped off with high charges for a 20 round box, yet government pays the same or less for a 50 round box.
WHY?
Competitor Y, AKA gold dot. Competitor X, AKA ranger.
I carry HST in all my firearms, 45 & 9
And don't forget that ranger T by Winchester
looks like the hst or gold dot are the way to go.
People love the perfect looking post shot flower pattern that the HST exemplifies, BUT there are other 45 rounds out there that penetrate deeper due to less expansion. (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc) It's always a trade-off.
+the777 not expanding and over penetration is NOT the desired performance! That is a failure! If you don't expand and STOP 12-17 inches then you are NOT dumping your terminal energy into the target. You are simply making a small hole and then should just use ball ammo.
Viking Dog Agree......BUT, as most are trained to do (shoot center mass...ie torso), there is a 50% chance you will hit a rib. So I would be more inclined to use a round that expands a bit less for that added velocity to smash through a rib into the vital organs. Shutting down the CNS is the only goal.
Golden Sabers are a great option although Ive heard they're discontinued. Can you recommend a rem JHP that performs the same?
that's exactly why I like it, dumps the energy fast. wouldn't carry HST in the woods, but on the street it's all I would carry unless a gun is picky with it.
They should test, a ballistic gelatin wearing 4 layers of denim hiding behind a windshield and then another one behind drywall.
Too bad Federal is price gouging us! A 20 round box of 9mm HST costs $30 locally and even more on Federals website while the "law enforcement only" 50 round boxes sell for a few more dollars online. I am done buying Federal and Vista products until they change this policy...I have switched all my defense ammo to Sig Sauer and my target ammo to smaller companies. You know, companies that actually care about their customers? Even Hornady's 25 round boxes cost less than Federals 20 round boxes. I will switch back to Federal when the price gouging stops. You cant even use covid as an excuse anymore, prices have come way down since the pandemic. There is no excuse to charge $1.50-2.00 per round at this point
I use the hst exclusively regardless of caliber. I only ask that you sell them in 50rd boxes because $30+ for 20rds is a scam.
Hurry up and make more 147gr and ditch the silly LE marketing on the 50rd boxes that cost way less per round.
I order ammunition for my department. Most of the vendors in the US that advertise for sale online don't restrict unless you don't live in one of the free States. I've ordered with a credit card for some purchases. Currently, a 1000 round case of Fed 9mm 147 grn HST standard pressure is $799. While I can't provide a link ... the name includes the word Ammunition and Depot ... just saying. It's $39.99 for a box of 50.
Best expansion Winchester ranger T, Speer gold Dot + p, and federal HST. Best barrier penatrion Hornady critical duty.
The Gold Dot, aka competitor Y still performed very well. But yeah, HST's are king.
Competitor Y is not gold dot. God dots penetrate way more than that. Also, Speer and Federal are part of the same organization so why would they be trying to make each other look bad?
What grain is this there are so many different grains which one should i use
Are rhe “competitors” winchester ranger and sig sauer elite performance? It doesnt look xtp or ftx and it wouldn’t be gold dot cuz federal is the same company as Speer
Can u buy just the hst bullets for reloading??
Yes, it seems the Federal HST is slightly better but if you think that makes any difference in the lethality of the three competitors, you are wrong. A consistent good shot placement obtained after lots of training is way more important than that, even more than choosing .45 acp or 40 s&w instead 9 mm Luger.
Shot placement will always be most important, but after that, bullet performance can indeed make a difference.
I prefer the Gold Dot, but HST is a sure killer also.
other than the hard plastic case this ammo comes in because it is very difficult to open the HSTs from Federal are some really nasty rounds all the feedback and stats from other channels look the same as this test-these HSTs are the best of the best!!!
Realistic test on caucuses have seen HST didn't do too good expanding with 9mm, there's also video on youtube showing similar results.
Man, these things are nasty.
I'm assuming these were 147 gr bullets. I use the 124 gr HST in my 9mm carry pistol because I can't find the 147 gr in local stores. Every test video I've seen, through every possible medium shows them to be the most consistent in expansion and penetration.
ytubepuppy Video states glock 21 45 acp.
What a dummy!!! Right at the beginning of the video, there was a captioned stating that all test were done from a Glock 21, .45acp rounds. C'mon man!!!
so what is better for 9mm? HST hollow point, HST +P hollow point, or hydro shok hollow point? When it comes to personal defense? I'm really lost on this one. and is .45 better in that category by default?
Honestly, the best ones are the ones that hit the target area.
Buy what you can afford to shoot and then shoot a lot until it feels natural.
Most folks buy ammo that is better than they are, which equals wasted money.
thanks for the reply
147 grain HST in standard pressure [ non +p ]. tnoutdoors9 has tests on more than 20 124 gr and 147 gr loads. 147 penetrates 1 inch more on average. Also quieter because they're subsonic. Might make a difference ,
especially inside .Hydrashock often clogs with denim and doesnt expand.
Not meaning to nit pick, and I know this takes extra time and expense, but a valid scientific study is replicated. Just because it happened once doesn't mean it will happen again. It would be nice to see some reps, though I realize this may be impractical for a lot of folks. But don't police departments choose their ammo because of the way it performs numerous times and not because of just one shooting? I guess looking at numerous vids from different people will get me my reps. Thanks for the vid.
The bullet (Y) is a Speer Gold Dot?
Yes "Y" were Gold Dots, anyone know what "X" was?
Competitor y PDX1 great round as well but love HST
Thank you Federal Ammunition!
We at KCPD rely on and trust our lives to the HST. Could you disclose who Competitor Y and X are? I, as well as my Co-Workers would like to RID ourselves of any of it, that we may own. Thank You again.
Lots of people are saying one is speer gold dot and the other is hornandy critical defense. Stay safe out there!
@@robison87 Gold Dot and PDX1 were the others. The Critical Duty has much less expansion when tested. The Critical Defense is not recommended by Hornady for LE use.
@@boostimalaka1 Yeah personally I'm not sure. Just seeing what others wrote. I use the federal hst in 124 grain for my edc and also use the hst for my .45. I have many other brands, but my second choice would be either gold dot or ranger, but I don't have any of the ranger T.
@@robison87 For civilian carry the Hornady Critical Defense will work fine. The only downside to the Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty is much less expansion when compared to the Gold Dot, HST, Golden Saber and Winchester PDX1.
I have this in my carry guns. I trust it. Thank you, Federal. My only complaint is make more training ammo, I can't find any.
Sgammo dot com has the 9mm 147 grain hst right now! I just bought the 4 box limit. Expensive, but I haven't seen any for sale in like a year.
@@robison87 Yeah, they're pumping out 9mm, but I carry .45acp. Thank you, though. Too expensive right now.
@@Ogrematic I see. Yeah i got a glock 30s which is chambered in .45. Very nice gun, but yeah ammo, especially self defense rounds are ridiculously priced.
@@robison87 I saw a 100-rnd box the other day for $94.99. That is ridiculous.
@@Ogrematic yes exactly and that is just plinking rounds at least where I am at in central Pennsylvania. The federal HST 9mm on that site is $35 for 20 rounds....it is a shame that common caliber rounds are about 80 cents to $1 a round now on average here.
All 3 looked good
What is the best 9mm bullet weight to use for self defense?
FBI recommends a heavier bullet weight like the 147gr offering. I tend to agree.
WHY did you stop making 9mm HST 147 gr +p?
Y looks like Speer gold dot and X looks like Winchester pdx1 defender… just if anyone was wondering or can correct me.
FBI protocol does not call for the meat target?
The oranges for lung tissue is the ultimate barrier!
Can you make HST in 10mm please? I have HST in 9mm in my Glock 17 for home defense.
Get a 33 round mag, one of them is bound to work! :)
I want to know who competitor x is.
Just don't buy the 150 grain "micro" 9mm HST. That stuff when used in small CCW pistols it is supposedly designed for over penetrates and doesn't expand. The 124 grain however is excellent in both standard pressure and +p loadings and the 147 grain gives descent performance as well.
I'll take over penetration any day over under penetration.
I don’t see any Ranger T’s there to compare to.... But HST is still great ammo..
Federal premium is really turning out to be some awesome ammo. Obviously after watching this video u can see the handgun ammo is the best. Competitor y is speer gold dot and x is hornady critical defense duty. Federal premium 308 with sierra SMK is just about the best factory rifle ammo period.. Norma usa match is the only equal. Black hills is garbage now overpriced garbage it use to be good but with federal premium beating their price and ballistics its garbage. Federal has really turned out awesome ammo accross the board over the last few years. Hst plus p can be gotten in 50rnd boxes for $21-26 in 9mm-45acp and that is an amazing prixe point cheap enough to sgoot at range for practice now and then. Bonefroggunclub has it at these prices! Shippinf is not bad either flat rate $13
+Shawn p Y was definitely gold dot, but I thought x was Winchester Ranger T? Are you 100% positive it's critical defense?
It was not the critical duty round
+Eric Warner no i am
Not i also knew the one was gold dot and assumed critical defense was the next best round i know their expansion and weight retention is very close... But it might be winchester bonded or whatever
+Shawn p you said it was Hornady "hornady critical defense duty" they actually make a critical duty which is 220 grains and a critical defense which is 185 grains
+westbury09 yea i forgot the backslash inbetween. I said that because it is possible the used critical defense to make hst look better. Critical duty is more designed for police and penetrating heavy clothing, but who knows which one was used.
To bad the 9mm 150 grain performs so bad. Wish I would never had bought that particular sku. Most the rest HST is pretty good except you still have rounds I think you only sell to LEOs. I have 40sw 180 LEO but I wish you would make it more available.
The 150 grain HST is designed for use in Micro Pistols with 3” barrels. A few tests prove it to be effective in ballistic gel tests. The 147 grain is meant for service pistols with 4” barrels.
Y outperformed the HST in 2/3 tests...HST expanded *slightly* more but expansion isn't everything... I'd want penetration first, then expansion. Y looks like either Gold dots or PDX1. Either way, any of those 3 (HST, gold dots, pdx1) are great choices
federal do one of these on the 9mm federal tactical bonded
My son told me that I have to get hst and I have and I have some hollow points different makers but I will get more hst. I'm a new gun owner.
Hum where’s the car door test and the windshield and the plywood test
in my opinion I wouldn't want to be shot with none of these
In my opinion, I wouldn't want to be shot with any of these.
In my opinion, I would want to be shot with none of these.
TheOtherMike - Savage
Now do the hardest one you left out,windshield .
I wonder who x and y were?
Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty.
Winchester ranger bonded, and hornady.
Yes i I have a long range rifle the only ammo that gives me consitatnt groupings federal match grade ammo federal is a great company and turn out high quality ammo
Anyone happen to know what HST stands for?
I carry HST's in my 9mm shield and gold dots in my 45 lol. I wouldnt want to be on the recieving end of either...
Y's a gold dot, X is Hornday Critical defense
Critical Duty :)
Y is winchester ranger bonded.
20 round boxes are way over priced, I get the LE 50 round boxes. 124gr+P 9mm
I’ve seen these round fail so many times after encountering bone that I just don’t trust them. Those long cuts in the bullet just fold up and don’t expand. Everybody I know has bones.
What hollow points do you use that perform better through bone? I know hornady critical duty +p would do better through bone but it doesn't expand nearly as well.
@@robbybrown5843 Gold dot
I don't believe it if they can't name the competitors.
Do those differences between the three really make you less or more dead? Does 99% weight retention do any less damage than 100% retention? Expanding .050" less than the other really make a difference? One inch less penetration? I know numbers are numbers, but any one of those three would tear a human body to sheds. I can imagine the shooter going up to the target and doing a facepalm "damnit! It only went 10" into his chest, not eleven like the test said it would!" lol
Were these standard pressure hst?
+Nick From the suburbs
Yes, those are standard pressure.
I have it in 9mm(147) and .45(230)
If you think a Glock is a concealed carry self-defense weapon, this ammo shows promise. If you are not performing a law enforcement carry, but need something which will expand at subsonic speeds, is this going to meet your needs? You be the judge.
x is ranger sxt or ranger t-series
So, what does 'HST' stand for anyway?
Not sure if it's true, but I was told it meant Hydro-Shock Technology.
Hydra-Shok-Tactical
FishKepr Hydra Shock Two for it being the second version of the Hydra Shock.