He still pretty good at the first part of 2010 after his comeback. For me the actual turning point is Germany 2010 with that team order, even tho second part of that season is still good, he seems like losing motivation as he know there's no way he would beat Alonso. His real downward spiral starts at 2011 onwards
Great video. It's annoying whenever F1 fans call other championships "F1 reject series", like it's not just FE that gets that label, it's also WEC and Indycar. FE maybe gets the label a bit more because they are very good at scooping up talent that doesn't quite make it, but for me it's just more a compliment on the quality of the FE grid. There's a lot of very strong talents of drivers that could've made F1 but just missed out (Maloney, Ticktum, Evans, Da Costa, Frijns etc) and drivers that really should've stayed longer in F1 but lost out to lack of funding or politics (Vergne, Wehrlein, Vandoorne etc). Overall though I think FE has the 2nd best grid of single seater drivers just behind F1. It's a championship with very few pay drivers. I think the only reason people don't show it respect (from casual fans at least) is just because it's electric cars. I mean I've seen the same drivers get praised for what they do in WEC but then shat on for being in FE. It's just laughable sometimes. Guys like Massa and Giovinazzi show that FE is a different challenge and not a simple championship to crack. Same way Grosjean shows Indycar is no walk in the park. The level outside of F1 is still really high, and it's just annoying F1 blinded fans can't see that.
@@lewis8552 Absolutely agree! The amount of disrespect F1 fans have towards other “lesser” motorsports is honestly quite sad. These grids are absolutely stacked with the brightest young talents, who teams are often lucky to pick up. In F1 on the other hand, it’s often who brings the most money to the table. Kinda counterintuitive.
Massa was never a good driver to begin with in f1. He bottled the title massively in 2008 with a much superior car and kimi was sabotaged by ferrari. If massa won the title in 2008 he'd be labelled as the worst f1 champion of all time. Just look at how many times raikkonen had to gift him his position or how he suspiciously had 'problems'. Look up santander spygate
I have a theory abt Massa... everytime he has to drive saving either tyres or energy he underperforms. And that hes also better with harder compounds... we could see that in f1 when theyve changed from Bridgestone tyres to Pirelli, ive also seen that in Stock Car Brazil.. when they used Pirelli tyres Massa was struggling and once they've changed to Hankook tyres that are known for being harder, he started winning races with +13s gaps... and we've also seen that at the 24h of Daytona last year. He was in a car with Michelin tyres that are harder than Pirelli and he was fkn flying on his stints... they were abt to win that race on LMP2 if it wasn't for a penalty they got with another driver... they fell down to p8 and Massa got back in the car to recover it and finished the race in p3. He's gonna race at Daytona again this year and im really looking forward to see how he does.
I was pretty excited to see Massa in FE, and I didn't think he did too badly in 2018-'19, even if he took a bit of time to get up to speed. And he seemed to be enjoying it at times too. His second season was poor though, and the enjoyment clearly vanished! The F1 rejects tag is really annoying and does a disservice as to how good most of these drivers actually are. F1 isn't the be-all-and-end-all of racing, far from it in fact. Do you have any favourite FE seasons? For me, I hold particular nostalgia towards 2017-'18 and 2018-'19, with 2022-'23 probably being my favourite of some of the more recent seasons.
@dominicbarden4436 Hey Dominic, glad to hear from you again! Agree on Massa, I do wonder how he would’ve done in the Gen 1 FE cars, considering those were a bit more similar to what he experienced in F1. In terms of my favorite season, I was on and off in my watching of FE over the first few years, 2016/17 is pretty nostalgic for me though, love those liveries. But my favorite season is honestly probably 2021/22. The last Gen 2 season, I feel like that was the peak for FE liveries, as well as some great racing.
@@SB10_FE 2016-'17 is an odd one for me, it might actually be my least favourite season (nip-and-tuck with 2020-'21 to be honest). I remember feeling a bit bored of it at times, probably because Buemi was winning everything and there wasn't much that could stop him apart from himself and his own team! I also don't know how to feel about the title fight that year, given that Buemi had to miss New York due to a WEC clash when surely the two series could've made sure they didn't have any clashes! And that's still an issue seven years later by the way! It probably turned the fight towards di Grassi, given how Buemi fared in Montreal (crashing in practice, his legendary rant to the Andretti drivers, etc.). 2021-'22 was a good season to be fair. It had a nice 'settled' pecking order with clear title contenders emerging as the campaign developed, which was a nice narrative to follow after the madness of 2020-'21. It was just a shame that that year was Sam Bird's annus horribilis! Trying to rank every season would be tricky, I think. Very subjective.
Im sorry, but F1 the end-all-be-all for car racing. Thats doesnt negate how incredibly talented you have to be in every other racing category, but its still the truth. Im basically watching everything that moves on (at most times four) wheels and there is a reason we call F1 the pinnacle for literal decades now.
people say formula e is for f1 rejects but most formula e drivers from f1 were worst than the others; besides massa you had Giovinasi, Piquet,Vandorme,De vries, Hartley,Kobayashi, Villeneuve, Pic, VS the good ones of Wehlein, Buemi, Vergne and D'ambrodio
@KT-dp8xm yes, he won THE first title with huge suspisions on the legality of his car, being the top fanboost for the last 6 races, only won on the margin of 1 point, and only had 6 other drivers that competed compectivly full time. Apart from that he got beatten by every team mate he had on pace, with the cherry on top being his 2018 campain at Jaguar where he scored 1 point vs team mate near 30
Well, if FE is full of Formula One rejects, then vice versa, F1 can be Formula E rejects, safe to say. Just kidding, but still; in FE, I don't see that many drivers buying a seat 😅. Plus, seasonal motorsport fans need to acknowledge FE is a different racing series with a different type of car; not all racing series can be referenced to F1. I've seen delusional fanbases trash talk about Andre Lotterer, who by the way, did well in FE but is also a 3-time Le Mans champion, one of the oldest racing events predating F1. But according to F1 fans, he's a shit driver because he didn't drive in F1 long stint. As if F1 is the be all and end all.
@@timmynicolas8729 quick note, really admire Massa still for his side quests. Give FE high praise in various media outlets for being a competitive motorsport.
@@sadikurrahman4833bro what? Massa almost always outpreformed his teammates of course he wasn’t able to out preform micheal but he was still pretty new to the sport, and micheal was already a 7 time champion. In 2007 he was a good second driver to kimi when in 2008 he would’ve won the title if it wasn’t for crashgate in singapore which allowed alonso to pick up the win. Massa had 11 wins as stated in the video and he wasn’t getting outpreformed, hell in his prime he outpreformed the car he was driving
Thanks! Yeah it seemed like he really wasn't enjoying how energy conscious you had to be. He's more of a flat out, aggressive driver. Just not a good fit imo
Yea so he liked his first season but then when they did the rule change to make it more about energy consumption during his second season is when he started to hate it and as a fan that has been watching since season 1, I kinda agree. The energy saving pack racing that formula e has been doing the last few years is dumb as hell to me. And I'm hoping the gen 3 evo and upcoming gen 4 fixes all of that.
It's funny because in f1 he still cries about 2008 which he bottled himself in a much faster car and team orders and he got destroyed by all of his teammates😂
Hey mate I have a intersting idea you could do for a future video. Try going over all the seasons of FE and either make it a qualyfing championship or use F1 1950 point's system
Disagree. Energy conservation is an added element of strategy that has determined the outcome of several races. It's balancing how you can save energy versus where you attack. It's really interesting
Trust me Pascal isn’t stupid enough to have his eyes set on F1 again. He’s a Porsche works driver and just became world champion, im pretty sure his only goal rn outside of FE, is prob getting a Porsche Penske drive
It was cool to have such a big name coming to formula e. Sad it wasn't the greatest. Hopefully we will see more big namss comjng here. I don't think it will happen but it would be huge if drivers like Bottas, Ricciardo or Pérez would try FE. I think Pérez could do well since he is known to be great at tight street circuits.
It's good Massa and Giovinazzi failed at Formula E. It proves you can't just rock up and be competitive there, bolstering FE's reputation as tough and decent quality
Massa was a horrible driver to begin with. If anyones actually bothered analysing massas career here is a summary: - he was dropped by sauber initiallt because of how much he underperformed - lost against all of his sauber teammates and barely beat a washed villeneuve - wasnt even close to an out of prime schumacher - bottled 2008 with a much superior ferrari that had much better aero grip The one thing i hate about this guy the most is how he has never credited raikkonen in his title fight chances in 2008. He was gifted the win in multiple races and was slower than kimi on every track. He only beat kimi because ferrari decided to change kimis suspension without telling him and then told him before spa 'if you dont win youll be number 2 to massa'. If anyone other than lewis deserved 2008 its kimi if he was not sabotaged by ferrari. Lewis deserved it the most but massa is crying about injustice when kimi had even bigger injustice because his teammate kept being destroyed. Just look at france where he had a suspicious issue that gifted massa a free win and gifted p2 in china 2008
I don't remember what he was like before that spring hit him in Hungary, but after that it was just abysmal. I remember his mechanic telling him on radio lap after lap how and where he can overtake someone, while Massa was trying to execute the orders and failing.
@@SniperMayerI don't think Hungary 2009 broke him. By the way you do know massa was leading the championship at the beginning of 2010. He was never broken after 2009. What broke him was Germany 2010 because he was never consistent after that race
@SB10_FE true...I remember when I had the bright idea of using a vacuum cleaner to clean my underpants...well nevermind...I look hard, I got harder and I hardly could get to the switch that disconnects the vacuum cleaner...yaaaahooooo! Well, better get serious now...I understand what you are talking about...Torque...torque is the only truth on electric vehicles aka vacuum cleaners alias hair dryers... The first part wasn't true...I am not that crazy and I would never risk my familly jewels🤪😉 I Wish You a Prosperous 2025 duemilavintecinque
I still hate that people say GIOVINAZZI was a terrible driver just because first He sucked at F1(the alfa romeo sucks) and that He has a terrible season in FE(it take time to someone to adapt to FE car I mean look at his qualying laps in the penultimate round)
Absolutely agree, that Season 8 Dragon Penske was an AWFUL car. Him and SSC were pushing that car as fast as it could go, and made the duels in several rounds. But it was never, EVER good in race pace. I'd like to have seen him get a better shot in FE
Massa wasn't the same after that F1 crash in 09' when that spring hit him. my heart sank when i was watching that race live
He still pretty good at the first part of 2010 after his comeback. For me the actual turning point is Germany 2010 with that team order, even tho second part of that season is still good, he seems like losing motivation as he know there's no way he would beat Alonso. His real downward spiral starts at 2011 onwards
That was qualifying not during a race
Great video. It's annoying whenever F1 fans call other championships "F1 reject series", like it's not just FE that gets that label, it's also WEC and Indycar.
FE maybe gets the label a bit more because they are very good at scooping up talent that doesn't quite make it, but for me it's just more a compliment on the quality of the FE grid. There's a lot of very strong talents of drivers that could've made F1 but just missed out (Maloney, Ticktum, Evans, Da Costa, Frijns etc) and drivers that really should've stayed longer in F1 but lost out to lack of funding or politics (Vergne, Wehrlein, Vandoorne etc).
Overall though I think FE has the 2nd best grid of single seater drivers just behind F1. It's a championship with very few pay drivers. I think the only reason people don't show it respect (from casual fans at least) is just because it's electric cars. I mean I've seen the same drivers get praised for what they do in WEC but then shat on for being in FE. It's just laughable sometimes.
Guys like Massa and Giovinazzi show that FE is a different challenge and not a simple championship to crack. Same way Grosjean shows Indycar is no walk in the park. The level outside of F1 is still really high, and it's just annoying F1 blinded fans can't see that.
Completely agree with everything you've said, not much to add.
FE, Indy, WEC, etc. have great grids and great racing. I hate these elitist F1 fans.
@@lewis8552 Absolutely agree! The amount of disrespect F1 fans have towards other “lesser” motorsports is honestly quite sad.
These grids are absolutely stacked with the brightest young talents, who teams are often lucky to pick up. In F1 on the other hand, it’s often who brings the most money to the table. Kinda counterintuitive.
@@rishikaul5048 they think F1 drivers would dominate every series they enter
Massa was never a good driver to begin with in f1. He bottled the title massively in 2008 with a much superior car and kimi was sabotaged by ferrari.
If massa won the title in 2008 he'd be labelled as the worst f1 champion of all time. Just look at how many times raikkonen had to gift him his position or how he suspiciously had 'problems'. Look up santander spygate
Interesting video. Massa definitely had a way better first season than I remembered. Thanks for posting!
Thank you!
I have a theory abt Massa... everytime he has to drive saving either tyres or energy he underperforms. And that hes also better with harder compounds... we could see that in f1 when theyve changed from Bridgestone tyres to Pirelli, ive also seen that in Stock Car Brazil.. when they used Pirelli tyres Massa was struggling and once they've changed to Hankook tyres that are known for being harder, he started winning races with +13s gaps... and we've also seen that at the 24h of Daytona last year. He was in a car with Michelin tyres that are harder than Pirelli and he was fkn flying on his stints... they were abt to win that race on LMP2 if it wasn't for a penalty they got with another driver... they fell down to p8 and Massa got back in the car to recover it and finished the race in p3. He's gonna race at Daytona again this year and im really looking forward to see how he does.
Quite a good analysis, he's certainly tried his hand at a lot of different racing series. I think he's pretty particular about the type he enjoys lol
We need more channels that do FE analysis like this
I want to follow FE this year and i am looking for channels that provide good videos, and this is good!
Thank you!
I was pretty excited to see Massa in FE, and I didn't think he did too badly in 2018-'19, even if he took a bit of time to get up to speed. And he seemed to be enjoying it at times too. His second season was poor though, and the enjoyment clearly vanished!
The F1 rejects tag is really annoying and does a disservice as to how good most of these drivers actually are. F1 isn't the be-all-and-end-all of racing, far from it in fact.
Do you have any favourite FE seasons? For me, I hold particular nostalgia towards 2017-'18 and 2018-'19, with 2022-'23 probably being my favourite of some of the more recent seasons.
@dominicbarden4436 Hey Dominic, glad to hear from you again! Agree on Massa, I do wonder how he would’ve done in the Gen 1 FE cars, considering those were a bit more similar to what he experienced in F1.
In terms of my favorite season, I was on and off in my watching of FE over the first few years, 2016/17 is pretty nostalgic for me though, love those liveries. But my favorite season is honestly probably 2021/22. The last Gen 2 season, I feel like that was the peak for FE liveries, as well as some great racing.
@@SB10_FE 2016-'17 is an odd one for me, it might actually be my least favourite season (nip-and-tuck with 2020-'21 to be honest). I remember feeling a bit bored of it at times, probably because Buemi was winning everything and there wasn't much that could stop him apart from himself and his own team! I also don't know how to feel about the title fight that year, given that Buemi had to miss New York due to a WEC clash when surely the two series could've made sure they didn't have any clashes! And that's still an issue seven years later by the way! It probably turned the fight towards di Grassi, given how Buemi fared in Montreal (crashing in practice, his legendary rant to the Andretti drivers, etc.).
2021-'22 was a good season to be fair. It had a nice 'settled' pecking order with clear title contenders emerging as the campaign developed, which was a nice narrative to follow after the madness of 2020-'21. It was just a shame that that year was Sam Bird's annus horribilis!
Trying to rank every season would be tricky, I think. Very subjective.
Im sorry, but F1 the end-all-be-all for car racing.
Thats doesnt negate how incredibly talented you have to be in every other racing category, but its still the truth.
Im basically watching everything that moves on (at most times four) wheels and there is a reason we call F1 the pinnacle for literal decades now.
people say formula e is for f1 rejects but most formula e drivers from f1 were worst than the others; besides massa you had Giovinasi, Piquet,Vandorme,De vries, Hartley,Kobayashi, Villeneuve, Pic, VS the good ones of Wehlein, Buemi, Vergne and D'ambrodio
Lol Piquet won Formula E title, and you say , him one of the worst....????
@KT-dp8xm yes, he won THE first title with huge suspisions on the legality of his car, being the top fanboost for the last 6 races, only won on the margin of 1 point, and only had 6 other drivers that competed compectivly full time.
Apart from that he got beatten by every team mate he had on pace, with the cherry on top being his 2018 campain at Jaguar where he scored 1 point vs team mate near 30
2022 Giovinazzi FE season was the funniest shit to watch after the f1 fanboys said he was going to be a front runner there
FE seems to be a total beast to seasoned drivers. Brendon Hartley struggled massively when he went to FE
Absolutely, it offers a challenge like no other racing series
Well, if FE is full of Formula One rejects, then vice versa, F1 can be Formula E rejects, safe to say.
Just kidding, but still; in FE, I don't see that many drivers buying a seat 😅. Plus, seasonal motorsport fans need to acknowledge FE is a different racing series with a different type of car; not all racing series can be referenced to F1.
I've seen delusional fanbases trash talk about Andre Lotterer, who by the way, did well in FE but is also a 3-time Le Mans champion, one of the oldest racing events predating F1.
But according to F1 fans, he's a shit driver because he didn't drive in F1 long stint. As if F1 is the be all and end all.
F1 is just a feeder series for WEC and FE
@timmynicolas8729 🤫 bruh. Pinnacle of motorsports gonna be furious reading that.... 😬
@@timmynicolas8729 quick note, really admire Massa still for his side quests. Give FE high praise in various media outlets for being a competitive motorsport.
To be fair massas prime was almsot 15 years ago
His prime was getting beaten by nick heidfeld and giancarlo fisichella and slapped up by all of his teammates
@@sadikurrahman4833bro what? Massa almost always outpreformed his teammates of course he wasn’t able to out preform micheal but he was still pretty new to the sport, and micheal was already a 7 time champion. In 2007 he was a good second driver to kimi when in 2008 he would’ve won the title if it wasn’t for crashgate in singapore which allowed alonso to pick up the win. Massa had 11 wins as stated in the video and he wasn’t getting outpreformed, hell in his prime he outpreformed the car he was driving
@@sadikurrahman4833 Not finishing second in WDC? sure...
Great video! I've seen Massa in some interviews saying that he didn't like FE
Thanks! Yeah it seemed like he really wasn't enjoying how energy conscious you had to be. He's more of a flat out, aggressive driver. Just not a good fit imo
Yea so he liked his first season but then when they did the rule change to make it more about energy consumption during his second season is when he started to hate it and as a fan that has been watching since season 1, I kinda agree. The energy saving pack racing that formula e has been doing the last few years is dumb as hell to me. And I'm hoping the gen 3 evo and upcoming gen 4 fixes all of that.
It's funny because in f1 he still cries about 2008 which he bottled himself in a much faster car and team orders and he got destroyed by all of his teammates😂
Hey mate I have a intersting idea you could do for a future video. Try going over all the seasons of FE and either make it a qualyfing championship or use F1 1950 point's system
I've definitely looked into those! Stay tuned
Indeed spending the whole race conserving energy instead of pushing and attacking must be pretty boring and unexciting!
90% of racing series are the same. Saving tyres and fuel is ok but not energy ?
Disagree. Energy conservation is an added element of strategy that has determined the outcome of several races. It's balancing how you can save energy versus where you attack. It's really interesting
I just think Pascal Wehrlein will go to Cadillac due to the team principle being the same as manor and him being fast and experienced and still young
Trust me Pascal isn’t stupid enough to have his eyes set on F1 again. He’s a Porsche works driver and just became world champion, im pretty sure his only goal rn outside of FE, is prob getting a Porsche Penske drive
It's possible, but I think Porsche has a pretty strong hold of him. I doubt they'll want to let him go, more likely he goes to WEC Imo
@@SB10_FE i am sure he would leave if he gets a works Cadillac f1 driver ( even if it’s for 28 ) and after that he can do imsa and wec with them
Nice video 👍👍
You should make a video on Nyck de Vries
He was past his prime and probably FormulaE didn’t motivate him the same way.
It was cool to have such a big name coming to formula e. Sad it wasn't the greatest. Hopefully we will see more big namss comjng here. I don't think it will happen but it would be huge if drivers like Bottas, Ricciardo or Pérez would try FE. I think Pérez could do well since he is known to be great at tight street circuits.
Yeah, I think Perez could definitely be competitive. In the end though, it all comes down to what seat's available.
It's good Massa and Giovinazzi failed at Formula E. It proves you can't just rock up and be competitive there, bolstering FE's reputation as tough and decent quality
Massa was a horrible driver to begin with. If anyones actually bothered analysing massas career here is a summary:
- he was dropped by sauber initiallt because of how much he underperformed
- lost against all of his sauber teammates and barely beat a washed villeneuve
- wasnt even close to an out of prime schumacher
- bottled 2008 with a much superior ferrari that had much better aero grip
The one thing i hate about this guy the most is how he has never credited raikkonen in his title fight chances in 2008. He was gifted the win in multiple races and was slower than kimi on every track.
He only beat kimi because ferrari decided to change kimis suspension without telling him and then told him before spa 'if you dont win youll be number 2 to massa'.
If anyone other than lewis deserved 2008 its kimi if he was not sabotaged by ferrari. Lewis deserved it the most but massa is crying about injustice when kimi had even bigger injustice because his teammate kept being destroyed. Just look at france where he had a suspicious issue that gifted massa a free win and gifted p2 in china 2008
I don't remember what he was like before that spring hit him in Hungary, but after that it was just abysmal. I remember his mechanic telling him on radio lap after lap how and where he can overtake someone, while Massa was trying to execute the orders and failing.
@@SniperMayerI don't think Hungary 2009 broke him. By the way you do know massa was leading the championship at the beginning of 2010. He was never broken after 2009. What broke him was Germany 2010 because he was never consistent after that race
winter slop
Ah but for Formula E, we are in race season!
Struggle?! driving a vacuum cleaner?! NEVER!
Believe it or not, vacuum cleaners are harder than they look
@SB10_FE true...I remember when I had the bright idea of using a vacuum cleaner to clean my underpants...well nevermind...I look hard, I got harder and I hardly could get to the switch that disconnects the vacuum cleaner...yaaaahooooo!
Well, better get serious now...I understand what you are talking about...Torque...torque is the only truth on electric vehicles aka vacuum cleaners alias hair dryers...
The first part wasn't true...I am not that crazy and I would never risk my familly jewels🤪😉 I Wish You a Prosperous 2025 duemilavintecinque
I still hate that people say GIOVINAZZI was a terrible driver just because first He sucked at F1(the alfa romeo sucks) and that He has a terrible season in FE(it take time to someone to adapt to FE car I mean look at his qualying laps in the penultimate round)
Absolutely agree, that Season 8 Dragon Penske was an AWFUL car. Him and SSC were pushing that car as fast as it could go, and made the duels in several rounds. But it was never, EVER good in race pace. I'd like to have seen him get a better shot in FE