I remember watching this in high school the next morning in class and both laughing my ass off and applauding them for putting an end to the bullshit. Nothing beats SF4 era FGC.
I dont see how people can say that him or spooky overreacted to colluding at their tournaments. Those guys put in a TON of work to make sure that the matches run without any problems are exciting and fun for everyone to watch. And for someone to just lame it out in the grand finals which should be the most exciting moment of the entire tournament would piss anyone off! I dont care if they split the pot later that night that's whatever it's been happening for years. But when you treat grand finals like a joke youre insulting the TO and the entire audience.
I dont even understand why those two BROTHERS would collude in the first place, can't they just share the money with eachother after the tourney is over? Its logic!
I would sincerely just stand up and tell him to quit complaining, aint nobody gonna force him to stay. yet, they just want to have fun at a tournament and its alright, its not like EVERYTHING HAS TO BE SERIOUS,, give it a little humor. but srsly, i would say that. BUT, he was doing the right thing, we want to have fun BUT we dont want to see people teaming to get the money after others work their asses and end up losing cuz of them. But i repeat myself, like a warm up before the real fight you can have fun but when its GRAND FINALS after dat lil warm up, then , get serious.
So if you went this far to broadcast, set up, and commentate on this tourney, which would probably be thousands of dollars at the end of the day, and pull 300 more dollars out of your own pocket and have as a reward for the winner, and this happened, you'd just let them get away with this? You have sponsors, you have all these players coming together to play and compete, and you honestly expect me to believe you'd let these two chucklefucks spit in your face and shit on your tournament after all that hard work? Bullshit.
That's what I call a real TO. It may be impossible to prevent colluding, but the one in charge can DAMN sure step up and punish it like a boss. Respect to ShinSyn; EVERY tourney needs to be sending colluders a message like this.
Overreacting? He did the right thing! This is an e-sport with real money around it, imagine if you pay 20 € for a boxing match final and then the two just exchange some punches like a training instead of being serious! It's a bad shit, there is a reason 2nd and 3rd prizes exist, you can win and then pay the opponent a party for both for what I care, but if you are not serious about why you are there, then why are you there, for the money? That's the door then.
Collusion has to be stamped out on a competitive scene because it send the wrong message to sponsors that your scene is not serious and to potential players who are discouraged when they see favortism amongst gamers. Why do you think its illegal in all pro sports? What if they collude and have people taking dives in tournament because of side bets??? Its a can of worms that you don't want to open so the TO did the right thing.
The only thing these kids colluded is giving the audience a shitty final match. This video has nothing to do with side bets, because they fucking won the whole tournament.
For anyone defending this (and possibly the Smash 4 incident at EVO2018), would you be OK if you bought tickets to the playoffs (or any other sports final) or even just watched at home, then the playing teams started treating the game like a joke?
Denzel Rozier exactly. People don’t realize the severity cause it’s esports. But imagine buying expensive ass tickets to the super bowl only for both teams (especially if you’re a fan of either one) treating the game like a joke
It's the grand finals of a tournament with a lot of money on the line, but they were just fucking around and not trying because the two players already decided that they'd split the money. Grand finals should be hype as fuck with top level play, but these dudes weren't even trying.
Ok someone help me make sure I got this - The two finalists were brothers, and basically played a troll match for the grand final so that they could pool the prize money? I can see why that's not ok, but what I don't get is, if they're brothers, why not just play a real match and pool the 1st and 2nd place money anyway? Unless I misunderstand something, it's the same result except the tournament gets a real final.
I have zero idea on the effort it took to get this all together so i can't properly say wether the reaction was over or not. But i do think it's okay to get upset at. Even if they are brothers and they would split money after this is important to spectators and people who showed. You don't joke with that stuff it's not your home. This is a place about seriousness. Play to win or don't enter.
brutis They had as much right to the money as everyone else who entered into it and no more. And they lost that right when they decided to pull what they pulled. Almost isn't done that's not how the world works. After they earned the money by playing under the rules THEN they could do what they want. But they played in someone elses place under that person's rules. They didn't follow and they got punished. They wasted the crowd's time and the hosts time. End of discussion.
Saying colluding is ok is in fighting games is saying it's ok to take a fall in pro-boxing. It's never ok. Colluding leads to under-performing and should never be done so obviously. If you want to split money, do it, but don't make it fucking obvious. If you obviously collude you deserve this. We cannot eliminate colluding but we can very much force players to play their best.
He skimmed through the part of fixing a match like it didn't matter in a sixty man tournament. When little boys get caught, they start acting like they're the victims.
Wow so this is the match everyone in the FGC was talking about. You know collusion is innevitable, it's just going to happen in a tight knit community like ours, but at least make sure you give the match your all. The finals are suppose to be the hype climax of the tournament. And purposefully making it not so is so disrespectful. It's such a slap in the face, especially to the people who spent their money, time, and effort setting up these tournaments. Just plain disrespectful.
This is no different then if teams going to the super bowl decide to make a deal and give a ton of money to the losing team in order to win it and gain recognition. This happens in sports all the time and it is a MAJOR deal. People pay and spend their personal time to organize things like this, and someone in the finals doing what they were is basically a slap in the face to them
Anyone defending this doesn’t realize spooky (the TO) has sponsors watching him as well as all the viewers that are supporting his tourney/stream. He would be disrespecting them heavily if he didn’t do anything (and all he wanted was a real match, he didn’t care if they split the pot it’s the fact that they made a joke out of it) and most likely negatively impact all his other tourneys after this
After the match, it's the winner's money, so what they do with it shouldn't be an issue. The issue is making a mockery of competitive play and wasting the time and money of everyone watch whether they came there to see it live or are watching over Twitch/RUclips/etc. I get player's want to have fun, but goof off on your own time, not on the time of various TOs and spectators. And DEFINITELY don't goof off as a way of "getting back" at the fans for booing and leaving because they don't like the match -coughcoughSm4shGrandFinals.- It's one thing to be immature. It's another to counter immaturity with MORE immaturity.
So you're gonna split the pot, fine, but why would you still not play to the best of your ability? Is it from a point of pride so you can make that money without being inferior to your competitor? Don't get it. Anyone could get away with collusion if they gave the tournament a real fight. Good on this TO for bringing down the hammer without completely shutting down the GF match. Giving the pot bonus to 3rd place was the right thing to do.
Congratulation to the third place winner. You are so good at this game and better than the second and first place winner. If I was that third place dude, I'd be embarrassed to have that money handed down to me like that
I call collusion on the caster that is giving the money to the 3rd place person. HE LOST, these are the 2 finalists like it or not. Bullshit to go and re-write tourney rules last minute to suite your friend who you felt "fought hard" But lost to the 1st and 2nd.
Marcus Sundholm The first and second place finishers are brothers and obviously agreed beforehand to not play a real match and just split the prize money. Colluding in the grand finals basically kills the hype of the entire tournament and cheats anyone watching of having a good finish to the event. Whoever was running the show had every right to pull the prize money and give it to third place.
I wouldn't like the idea of getting money I didn't earn, but I'd damn sure feel better feel worse about the grand final being trolled because the two that made it just wanted to fuck around.
***** See that could be a thing, but that wouldn't convey the message as well. Punishing wrongs is good, but doing that as well as rewarding the ones that did good is much more impactful.
I know what the word collusion means outside of blazblue, but what does this mean in this game? im relatively new to BB tournaments so i dont understand why picking izayoi makes it colluding? sorry
They both agreed to not play a real match with each other (and split the money). The term is no different from any other game, it's just this situation where it could've been interrupted funny.
Real money lets talk about the money the players put into entering the tourney honestly this applause he got for giving the pot to third is undeserved the cursing like hes their father come on i can understand passion and what not but there is a level of respect that is warranted period he could have pulled the pot without the profanity.
He could have but you gotta realize, he was pissed off at the moment, and with that level of anger and determination he made it clear that Collusion is absolutely unacceptable. I dunno about you,but I don't even want to be in the same room as that guy if the word 'collude' is even muttered.
Will you be uploading any of the AE top eight? My guy german luger took first but I missed the stream and its hard to check the archive from my mobile device! Thanks and advance and thanks for the uploads!
Why not just play a real match? They get the same money, and they're brothers, so they'd probably see one another the next day, no? Why troll unnecessarily?
But they where trolling at the beginning and they had to know people would get a reaction. They would have played for real from the begginning if he didn't exploed like that.
@@ragrappy00 they did but then they lost 500 dollars. the Avereage FGC player doesnt win a major so they shot themselves in the foot and I dont even see these guys in tournaments anymore.
in the end...couldnt they had just split the money 50/50? check or not...? its not like they're not strangers ya know..so collude or not....they couldve split the pot AFTER the match.
They easily could have, I mean shit they're brothers. Odds are they're gonna share a little bit of it eventually. It's the fact that they trolled the finals.
I know pot splitting is a big deal but you can't really blame them. They are brothers after all. I do agree that they should have at least played their hardest even is they were going to share it later.
but wouldn't they have both gotten the money for first and second place anyway regardless of the outcome ? yeah sure its not an entertaining grand final, but cmon , its not like everyone else lost on purpose so these guys would get top 2 rofl. that would be collusion, them being better than everyone else, well that aint their problem
viewing this from outside the guilty gear gaming community, i feel like the decision was too harsh. what I would have done was to ask them to restart the set for grands instead of taking all of their money away and giving it to third
Yeah I think he way over-reacted. I don't even know what game this is, I just happened across this video while looking at Smash stuff and the match didn't seem bad to me. If it was really bad and it's just my lack of fighting game knowledge then sure, call them out on it, they changed characters and started playing for real and that should have been the end of it.
Tony Garcia Imagine if you went to the Super Bowl this year. Chances are you would have paid a lot of money to be able to go, right? For what you paid for, you would want a quality match wouldn't you? I'd feel pretty cheated if the two teams who played well all year, instead of playing their best for the championship, decided to throw the game because they both reached the finals. That essentially applies here too.
As a magic player. This happens ALOT and everyone's OK with it. Why? Because they made it to the finals. If they want to call it a draw they call it a draw.
Chance Hattaway Its not about pot splitting- its about colluding and playing like garbage on stream. If you want to pot split go right ahead. Do it up in writing beforehand and notify the TO to protect both players from getting robbed. But put on a show for the viewers- they're the ones who make a lot of these pot bonuses possible.
So its an even smaller event that has a harder time generating that pot bonus? Makes more sense for them to do it, not less. They didn't lose their prize money, they lost the additional bonus to the pot.
I know this old... TO what he did is good giving the price money and pot money to the 3rd place winner. But he should've kept it professional instead raging out like a kid/baby. He should've gone with the Tournament give them the prize money, Call out their "Collusion". That's mostly it.
Holy shit I scrolled down to the comments expecting people to be laughing at the hilarity of the situation but a lot of you guys are taking this way too seriously. I'm not too familiar with the BlazBlue meta game but I don't think this is that serious. So can someone explain why if they are both planning to share the winnings anyway that it is it a big deal if they fuck around in the last game?
This wouldn't fall under collusion two players agreeing to sandbag in grands doesn't count now if they split first and second 50 50 then sure but these seems like deciding to have fun for grands which I see no problem with. Coming from the smash scene where pot splitting was a big problem for awhile
that's not collusion, collusion requires a cheating aspect to win something. If they where both already at the end as brothers of the tournament than collusion is by definition unnecessary and impossible. The guy who pulled the money over reacted and just didn't like that the match was not play the way he wanted it to be played.
The only thing the TO was calling for is a real match. What would his sponors think of him? Or even the audience who stayed? Yeah they're brothers, and they can just split the earnings, as they probably did. But there can only be one person on the top. That's all everyone was asking for.
The Feels only if you think the idea of entertainment is why the players show up. yes it maybe why he is running the tournament but the players are there to have fun and win. This reminds me of Marshawn Lynch in the NFL. He is a player he loves the game and the money that comes with it. the NFL thinks they have enough control over him to use him as a sock puppet they can trot out in front of the camera to make money. So much so if he does not do interviews they fine him hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions. He protests by answering questions with, "I am here so I don't get fined." So its only justified if you think the players should be there only to make the promoter money.
TheMovement85 The players have fun by performing in what they love best, which is competition. They win by giving it their all. Its bad sportsmanship when someone get to the top, and then when they get to finals, they goof off. It makes everyone look bad, the competitors, the sponsors, the TO, and it makes the onlookers feel like the person fooling around is undeserving. Can you imagine two NFL teams playing like they don't care, though they claim they love the sport?
The third place person was considered the official winner, that player fought to the top and did the best s/he could. First and second players: "Let's work together and split the winnings, but if we're both in the finals, let's fuck around and kill the spirit of a competition." 2 chances to knock out the REAL champ of the tournament? Unfair and justly looked down upon. The guy who put money in for incentive, he wants some real stuff, not some fake mess around match as the climax.
ChikoWhat Agreed. You spend hours upon hours of your personal time and money to make this tournament only to get people who wanna play like their just hanging out at their house or youth center just chilling? No way, that shit don't fly. He was right to get mad. If you did something like this at EVO your ass is fried on the spot and I guarantee nobody will miss you. You wanna play games? Go the F home. You wanna compete and earn respect/skill not to mention some man's hard earned cash? Stick around you belong right here. That's the point all competitors should understand.
Nigga they were at Grand Finals. Let me repeat, GRAND FUCKING FINALS. Imagine if two teams made it to the Super Bowl, they could take it easy? Fuck no, that's boring to watch and defeats all their hard work to get to that point. Same applies here.
dude imagine if this was how you made money. someone half assing grand finals damages viewership which then effects the stream and TO's bottom line. that would be like in the NBA finals both teams just let the other score.
If me and my bro where in the grand finals we'd do the same thing. I thought the point of games was to have fun this is why I question people that get so angry they're in Grand finals so they're better than everyone else. They earned there money already lets have some fun.
No, they earned 2nd place. Neither wins first place until after the match. And only after the fight ends does either player earn their money. It was right in the rules that were released ages before the event started, collusion would have punishments. "the point of games is to have fun" yeah, but if you want to avoid competition, you should really stop playing fighting games.
I can see why collusion is bad, but really only from an outside betting standpoint, much like any other sport. With that said, this was ridiculous overreaction. Don't get all pissy and start cussing and yelling at everyone. Just handle your business and let it go. There should have been a punishment already set in place in case this occurred, not a random on the spot judgement by someone who was far to angry to be making any decisions. If I were those two brothers I would have been quite angry myself.
He said that he made a warning about collusion at 17:48 and I don't see why you would be angry if you were those brothers. Aren't they trolling in Grand Finals to get this kind of reaction?
An agreement amongst players before to split all winning earned equally or whatever is agreed on. Let's say 2 people get 1st and 3rd, then add together and then split it. It's usually a shady buisness as sometimes this situation happens: The 2 people get first and second place and then throw the game out the window. Instead of playing serious and showing what 'grand finals' represents, they they 'troll/joke characters' or go 'all random'. It kills the spirit of the competition.
This was a grand finals tournament match with a lot of money on the line, the score was counting, not a casual match at all. Essentially since both the players are brothers they didn't care who was going to win because they would split the money between themselves at a later date. That is 'Collusion' and it ruins grand finals in quite a few tournaments, it is also against the rules, they could've been disqualified entirely. Regardless of what they said they'd do the facts are they both picked characters they don't play with and started messing around, in front of a crowd of onlookers who were expecting exciting high level play. This was a majorly disrespectful move, all the more so because the man who got mad spent a huge amount of time and money organizing and funding this tournament. He even added money to the prize out of his own pocket as an added incentive to bring the best players possible. Even though he could've disqualified them both, all he did was remove the money he added to the prize fund and gave it instead to 3rd place. It was a very noble thing to do. He didn't over-react, not at all.
Gregory Hall Did you see Laugh vs Infiltration and how weird that match was? I know nothing about this two players and game but I'm just wondering if it would have been like that.
I think it was an over reaction they're brothers its not colluding the money going to the same place anyway I agree they coulda played they're best but honestly it doesn't matter if they still put on a good show
Overreaction? Man put in his work to stream a great tournament and for it to end with a collusion? Fuck that shit, he should have knocked their asses out and got rid of their money completely.
This TO is a joke. Go ahead and make yourself look like a crazy person because two brothers are just messing around. How about you act like an adult instead of screaming into a microphone and trying to puff out your chest to act cool. Why not just say "hey guys, stop messing around and play a real match or I'm going to take out $200 from the pot." Brothers would have probably laughed it off and would have played a real match. Then you don't look like a lunatic, the brothers play a real match, you show your authority, and everyone wins. Now thanks to you grand standing they didn't even play for real at the end.
I am of the opinion that the TO did not handle this at all well. To me you pay to enter the tournament with the notion of being paid according to how you place. What you do with the money or how you get there is up to you. Online poker is a decent example where situations like this arise. It gets down to 3 players, a million dollars up for grabs, and the players decide to split the money in some fashion. They leave the table because there is no point playing a game where the outcome is predetermined. Are the fans who wanted to watch an epic showdown upset? Perhaps. Are the players obligated to stay till the end, absolutely not, at the end of the day they are there to have fun and win some money. No different to if one of the finalists started playing like utter shit for no apparent reason, there would be no hype, and what, is the TO going to call bullshit because someone plays badly? By entering the tournament there is an agreement between the organiser and the participant that if you do so well in the tournament you win something. THAT IS IT. They are not agreeing to put on a show for the crowd, they are not agreeing to only use there best characters, and try there best. They followed all the rules of the tournament, simple as that.
You fucking said they are there to try their best~ How the fuck is Colluding doing your best? those 2 asshat brothers even admitted to it " We were gonna just taunt kill each other" yea that form of trolling should get people like that banned. fuck that, play like a man and EARN your money not chicken out and agree to easy outcome.
Kaji chuu Please read before commenting: "they are NOT agreeing to only use there best characters, and try there best" - a direct quote from what I posted.
Sorry my mistake, but only cowards would take the easy way out. Its not a rule, but an obligation TO DO your best and give the crowd and nice show. Imagine you were watching an epic MMA tournament one where you paid money to see, watching fighters struggle to the very finals and then once there, the two fighters merely begin to play slap one another and merely walk around the ring for the entirety of the match. Wouldn't you feel robbed? That's how the TO felt.
Kaji chuu Feelings and opinions should have nothing to do with running a tournament. Yes I completely understand how the TO felt, but that does not mean he handled the situation well. Once in a tournament assuming you don't cheat, how you play each match is really up to you, but whatever happens the tournament must do right by its competitors, if they weren't colluding but were generally a bit dick-ish in the community, should the TO also just pull prize money from them? The TO has a tournament to run, and the players did nothing to stop the tournament running smoothly. They played all of their matches, and would have reached an outcome. If the TO felt annoyed, he should have had a word with them either after the tournament, or just in a much calmer manner. So whilst I understand the TOs POV, I think he handled the situation very poorly.
Sure he over reacted just a bit, but how would you feel if 1st amd 2nd place just decided to troll and kill the hype of the grand finals. How well the tournament goes brings incentive for people to join up for the next one, of two asshats are gonna collude and simply taunt kill each other then his choice to pull pot bonuses was his to make. If i was the TO i would have pulled 1st place money and given it to 3rd as well. If people wanna be cheap asses and ruin a tournament, well you ain't gonna get no prize.
He has no right to pull the prize. They were first and second, they beat everyone else out. Probably a friendly, "you guys have to actually try" would have done the job fine.
He really didn't. Imagine a Boxing match where everyone pays through the teeth to see a good fight and then both Boxers just agree to split the winnings and sit down until the bell rings. If you organised that fight, advertised and worked none stop to make sure everyone enjoys their night, wouldn't you be mad? Collusion was forbidden in the tournament rules. He could've disqualified them both, instead all he did was take out his personal contribution to the prize money and give it to 3rd place. Very respectable.
***** he took it better than i would. They woulda been DQ'd and i wouldnt have lost a wink of sleep over it. If someone thinks they can play around in something i set up with my own money then proceeded to take my money like that, theyve got another thing coming....
***** Overreacted my ass. You just don't understand what it's like to organize an event like this and put time and effort into it, as well as your own money, just to have someone shit all over it.
Can someone explain to me what's actually going on? How do they know whether or not they're colluding? One match with just a little bit of silliness (taunt battles probably shouldn't determine the grand finals but it's just something silly) and dude went ballistic. At least know for sure before you just give out the pot bonus like that. Dudes were just having a tiny bit of fun and OH MY GOD THEY'RE COLUUUUUUUUDING. People wonder why nobody wants to see this at evo. Can this even be considered colluding? Overreaction much
It isnt an overreaction at this point in the fgc there was a serious problem with colluding. Colluding is really disrespectful especially when you have sponsors watching.
I disagree with the TO. But pot bonus is his money to do what he pleases. When this happened to my brother and I years ago, we decided to go to one more event thrown by the TO, get to grand finals, hit each other once and run the time out. It is not about money but pride at that point. Then we stopped going to his events.
Years later and this is still legendary. This and sp00ky’s answer are the best example of what to do when people collude.
I remember watching this in high school the next morning in class and both laughing my ass off and applauding them for putting an end to the bullshit. Nothing beats SF4 era FGC.
I dont see how people can say that him or spooky overreacted to colluding at their tournaments. Those guys put in a TON of work to make sure that the matches run without any problems are exciting and fun for everyone to watch. And for someone to just lame it out in the grand finals which should be the most exciting moment of the entire tournament would piss anyone off! I dont care if they split the pot later that night that's whatever it's been happening for years. But when you treat grand finals like a joke youre insulting the TO and the entire audience.
I dont even understand why those two BROTHERS would collude in the first place, can't they just share the money with eachother after the tourney is over? Its logic!
Crazy thing is that both brothers play the loli and shota characters. Interesting tastes.
This 100%. Agree to split the pot and just play for the glory. It happens in competitive games like MTG all the time.
Good shit for the person coming in 3rd good xmas gift
Well xmas gifts dont depend on if they deserve it or not it's a gift.
ShinSyn made the right decision with money. If you're not going to play seriously then don't play at all.
Lol hello again
I would sincerely just stand up and tell him to quit complaining, aint nobody gonna force him to stay.
yet, they just want to have fun at a tournament and its alright, its not like EVERYTHING HAS TO BE SERIOUS,, give it a little humor. but srsly, i would say that.
BUT, he was doing the right thing, we want to have fun BUT we dont want to see people teaming to get the money after others work their asses and end up losing cuz of them.
But i repeat myself, like a warm up before the real fight you can have fun but when its GRAND FINALS after dat lil warm up, then , get serious.
HE DID THE RIGHT THING!! YOU DONT COLLUDE... PERIOD
So if you went this far to broadcast, set up, and commentate on this tourney, which would probably be thousands of dollars at the end of the day, and pull 300 more dollars out of your own pocket and have as a reward for the winner, and this happened, you'd just let them get away with this? You have sponsors, you have all these players coming together to play and compete, and you honestly expect me to believe you'd let these two chucklefucks spit in your face and shit on your tournament after all that hard work? Bullshit.
That's what I call a real TO. It may be impossible to prevent colluding, but the one in charge can DAMN sure step up and punish it like a boss. Respect to ShinSyn; EVERY tourney needs to be sending colluders a message like this.
Overreacting? He did the right thing! This is an e-sport with real money around it, imagine if you pay 20 € for a boxing match final and then the two just exchange some punches like a training instead of being serious!
It's a bad shit, there is a reason 2nd and 3rd prizes exist, you can win and then pay the opponent a party for both for what I care, but if you are not serious about why you are there, then why are you there, for the money?
That's the door then.
Collusion has to be stamped out on a competitive scene because it send the wrong message to sponsors that your scene is not serious and to potential players who are discouraged when they see favortism amongst gamers.
Why do you think its illegal in all pro sports? What if they collude and have people taking dives in tournament because of side bets??? Its a can of worms that you don't want to open so the TO did the right thing.
The only thing these kids colluded is giving the audience a shitty final match. This video has nothing to do with side bets, because they fucking won the whole tournament.
@@sheltonburnadeski5946 ruins it for everyone else. If you're gonna split it at least play a real match.
*Meanwhile at EVO2018, Smash 4 Grand Finals...*
For anyone defending this (and possibly the Smash 4 incident at EVO2018), would you be OK if you bought tickets to the playoffs (or any other sports final) or even just watched at home, then the playing teams started treating the game like a joke?
Denzel Rozier exactly. People don’t realize the severity cause it’s esports. But imagine buying expensive ass tickets to the super bowl only for both teams (especially if you’re a fan of either one) treating the game like a joke
Its so rare we get to see the TO actually playing games
We give money to the ---- give money to real nyiii---- -give money to the real WINNERS out here!
Shoutout to holding back. Gat damn.
we needed someone like shinsyn at smash 4 evo 2018 then we never would have gotten the worst smash 4 evo grand finals of all time
It's the grand finals of a tournament with a lot of money on the line, but they were just fucking around and not trying because the two players already decided that they'd split the money. Grand finals should be hype as fuck with top level play, but these dudes weren't even trying.
Ok someone help me make sure I got this - The two finalists were brothers, and basically played a troll match for the grand final so that they could pool the prize money? I can see why that's not ok, but what I don't get is, if they're brothers, why not just play a real match and pool the 1st and 2nd place money anyway? Unless I misunderstand something, it's the same result except the tournament gets a real final.
This is logic... we don't like logic here.
They probably did it for the lolz
I have zero idea on the effort it took to get this all together so i can't properly say wether the reaction was over or not. But i do think it's okay to get upset at. Even if they are brothers and they would split money after this is important to spectators and people who showed. You don't joke with that stuff it's not your home. This is a place about seriousness. Play to win or don't enter.
they played to grand finals the both of them they earned their way and had every right to that money
brutis They had as much right to the money as everyone else who entered into it and no more. And they lost that right when they decided to pull what they pulled. Almost isn't done that's not how the world works. After they earned the money by playing under the rules THEN they could do what they want.
But they played in someone elses place under that person's rules. They didn't follow and they got punished. They wasted the crowd's time and the hosts time. End of discussion.
Lmao they switched characters real quick
Saying colluding is ok is in fighting games is saying it's ok to take a fall in pro-boxing. It's never ok. Colluding leads to under-performing and should never be done so obviously. If you want to split money, do it, but don't make it fucking obvious. If you obviously collude you deserve this.
We cannot eliminate colluding but we can very much force players to play their best.
14:56 “If he didn’t take our money we would have played serious”
Except he just said they were just gonna taught each other to death, so which is it?
He skimmed through the part of fixing a match like it didn't matter in a sixty man tournament. When little boys get caught, they start acting like they're the victims.
Wow so this is the match everyone in the FGC was talking about. You know collusion is innevitable, it's just going to happen in a tight knit community like ours, but at least make sure you give the match your all. The finals are suppose to be the hype climax of the tournament. And purposefully making it not so is so disrespectful. It's such a slap in the face, especially to the people who spent their money, time, and effort setting up these tournaments. Just plain disrespectful.
This is no different then if teams going to the super bowl decide to make a deal and give a ton of money to the losing team in order to win it and gain recognition. This happens in sports all the time and it is a MAJOR deal. People pay and spend their personal time to organize things like this, and someone in the finals doing what they were is basically a slap in the face to them
Anyone defending this doesn’t realize spooky (the TO) has sponsors watching him as well as all the viewers that are supporting his tourney/stream. He would be disrespecting them heavily if he didn’t do anything (and all he wanted was a real match, he didn’t care if they split the pot it’s the fact that they made a joke out of it) and most likely negatively impact all his other tourneys after this
After the match, it's the winner's money, so what they do with it shouldn't be an issue. The issue is making a mockery of competitive play and wasting the time and money of everyone watch whether they came there to see it live or are watching over Twitch/RUclips/etc. I get player's want to have fun, but goof off on your own time, not on the time of various TOs and spectators. And DEFINITELY don't goof off as a way of "getting back" at the fans for booing and leaving because they don't like the match -coughcoughSm4shGrandFinals.- It's one thing to be immature. It's another to counter immaturity with MORE immaturity.
YOOOOOOO ANIMEEEEEEEEEEEE! Thank you so much for keeping it real
"you wanna fuckin come over here and play games like this? FUCK YOU."
Hummm. That's a lot of "fucking". They were close to beat The Goodfellas' record !! LOL
tbh i wouldn't have have em nothing lmao. 1+2nd place goes to 3rd, I'll keep the pot bonus since they wanna be funny
So you're gonna split the pot, fine, but why would you still not play to the best of your ability? Is it from a point of pride so you can make that money without being inferior to your competitor? Don't get it. Anyone could get away with collusion if they gave the tournament a real fight.
Good on this TO for bringing down the hammer without completely shutting down the GF match. Giving the pot bonus to 3rd place was the right thing to do.
When I played Tekken 3 with my sister she had more dignity than those 2.
Congratulation to the third place winner. You are so good at this game and better than the second and first place winner. If I was that third place dude, I'd be embarrassed to have that money handed down to me like that
I would feel fucking filthy taking money I didn't earn with my tournament play.
I call collusion on the caster that is giving the money to the 3rd place person. HE LOST, these are the 2 finalists like it or not. Bullshit to go and re-write tourney rules last minute to suite your friend who you felt "fought hard" But lost to the 1st and 2nd.
Marcus Sundholm The first and second place finishers are brothers and obviously agreed beforehand to not play a real match and just split the prize money. Colluding in the grand finals basically kills the hype of the entire tournament and cheats anyone watching of having a good finish to the event. Whoever was running the show had every right to pull the prize money and give it to third place.
I wouldn't like the idea of getting money I didn't earn, but I'd damn sure feel better feel worse about the grand final being trolled because the two that made it just wanted to fuck around.
***** See that could be a thing, but that wouldn't convey the message as well. Punishing wrongs is good, but doing that as well as rewarding the ones that did good is much more impactful.
"i can play games too, nigga"
Shinsyn is a straight up boss
That announcer is a damn hero.
I fucking hate when this shit happens man
"Got Herra Mad" Best line ever
I know what the word collusion means outside of blazblue, but what does this mean in this game? im relatively new to BB tournaments so i dont understand why picking izayoi makes it colluding? sorry
They both agreed to not play a real match with each other (and split the money). The term is no different from any other game, it's just this situation where it could've been interrupted funny.
Real money lets talk about the money the players put into entering the tourney honestly this applause he got for giving the pot to third is undeserved the cursing like hes their father come on i can understand passion and what not but there is a level of respect that is warranted period he could have pulled the pot without the profanity.
He could have but you gotta realize, he was pissed off at the moment, and with that level of anger and determination he made it clear that Collusion is absolutely unacceptable. I dunno about you,but I don't even want to be in the same room as that guy if the word 'collude' is even muttered.
Dude was litteraly the chosen ninja of 500 dollars
Will you be uploading any of the AE top eight? My guy german luger took first but I missed the stream and its hard to check the archive from my mobile device! Thanks and advance and thanks for the uploads!
Why not just play a real match? They get the same money, and they're brothers, so they'd probably see one another the next day, no? Why troll unnecessarily?
Did you not see the reaction they got? You know what trolling is? They got exactly what they wanted.
***** Actually they didn't.. They switched to their mains and still got no money..
But they where trolling at the beginning and they had to know people would get a reaction. They would have played for real from the begginning if he didn't exploed like that.
@@ragrappy00 they did but then they lost 500 dollars. the Avereage FGC player doesnt win a major so they shot themselves in the foot and I dont even see these guys in tournaments anymore.
in the end...couldnt they had just split the money 50/50? check or not...? its not like they're not strangers ya know..so collude or not....they couldve split the pot AFTER the match.
They easily could have, I mean shit they're brothers. Odds are they're gonna share a little bit of it eventually. It's the fact that they trolled the finals.
Based choice by TO
this is what happens if you troll in real life!well done!
Trolling Succeeded
I know pot splitting is a big deal but you can't really blame them. They are brothers after all. I do agree that they should have at least played their hardest even is they were going to share it later.
but wouldn't they have both gotten the money for first and second place anyway regardless of the outcome ? yeah sure its not an entertaining grand final, but cmon , its not like everyone else lost on purpose so these guys would get top 2 rofl. that would be collusion, them being better than everyone else, well that aint their problem
It is just me or Shinsyn is fucking huge?And i don't mean fat i mean beefed!
lmao this the best!!
I lost it at the guy who showed up at 20:35 and eyed that money
RESPECT!!
Lmao! Well... that's what they get. I'd be pissed if they did that at my tourney too especially after all that work I put in
It's people like this who make all of the BBCP players look bad. Don't be surprised if it doesn't make Evo now... Smh
what's the argument against this punishment
i really wanna know
viewing this from outside the guilty gear gaming community, i feel like the decision was too harsh. what I would have done was to ask them to restart the set for grands instead of taking all of their money away and giving it to third
i dunno man, shit like this has to be hit on the nail hard so it isn't done.
(colluding that is)
Yeah I think he way over-reacted. I don't even know what game this is, I just happened across this video while looking at Smash stuff and the match didn't seem bad to me. If it was really bad and it's just my lack of fighting game knowledge then sure, call them out on it, they changed characters and started playing for real and that should have been the end of it.
They could have gotten away with splitting the pot if they played seriously.
Good shit to the TO.
What was wrong with the match they were playing? Were those low tiers or something?
They were colluding, which means that they were intentionally not playing at their best during the grand finals match.
***** but they already beat everyone else to reach grand finals. Why can't they play how they want?
Tony Garcia Imagine if you went to the Super Bowl this year. Chances are you would have paid a lot of money to be able to go, right? For what you paid for, you would want a quality match wouldn't you? I'd feel pretty cheated if the two teams who played well all year, instead of playing their best for the championship, decided to throw the game because they both reached the finals. That essentially applies here too.
Respect.
Collusion aside. He's beyond salty. That's the only real reason he reacted like that because he put the money in it himself. 😴
yeah this was totally neccessarry for them ruining all the money and the time all those people spent.
What is this game?
Based fucking TO🔥
What game is this?
blazblue: central fiction
BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma
I don't blame him! You can clearly see they weren't actually fighting each other!
Can someone explain what "colluding" means here?
Basically, the players don't care as they expect to split the money anyhow, so they just goof off.
blazalchemist Oh okay. thanks.
So what the name of the game??!
Based TO
As a magic player. This happens ALOT and everyone's OK with it. Why? Because they made it to the finals. If they want to call it a draw they call it a draw.
Magic isn't trying to have an exciting scene for outsiders
LetsNeverPlayAgain Doesn't justify taking their prize money away from them.
Chance Hattaway Its not about pot splitting- its about colluding and playing like garbage on stream. If you want to pot split go right ahead. Do it up in writing beforehand and notify the TO to protect both players from getting robbed. But put on a show for the viewers- they're the ones who make a lot of these pot bonuses possible.
Magnetosis I would agree if this was Evo or something. But its not.
So its an even smaller event that has a harder time generating that pot bonus? Makes more sense for them to do it, not less. They didn't lose their prize money, they lost the additional bonus to the pot.
I know this old... TO what he did is good giving the price money and pot money to the 3rd place winner. But he should've kept it professional instead raging out like a kid/baby. He should've gone with the Tournament give them the prize money, Call out their "Collusion". That's mostly it.
I saw this live. That dude was pissssseeedddd.
Holy shit I scrolled down to the comments expecting people to be laughing at the hilarity of the situation but a lot of you guys are taking this way too seriously. I'm not too familiar with the BlazBlue meta game but I don't think this is that serious. So can someone explain why if they are both planning to share the winnings anyway that it is it a big deal if they fuck around in the last game?
Because people want to see real games, not fucking around. These tournaments are held for entertainment, what they did was disgusting.
Do people pay money to watch this? Because that's the only way I could possibly stretch what they did to be 'disgusting'
Some do who subscribe and when people fuck around like that they lose subscribers and money
Bad actitude narrator ... Soulcalubur is best
yoooooooollllllll lol
Guys wtf is colluding?
Basically you throw a match and split the prize with the guy you thrown the match with.
This shows how shitty tournaments really are.
This wouldn't fall under collusion two players agreeing to sandbag in grands doesn't count now if they split first and second 50 50 then sure but these seems like deciding to have fun for grands which I see no problem with. Coming from the smash scene where pot splitting was a big problem for awhile
that's not collusion, collusion requires a cheating aspect to win something. If they where both already at the end as brothers of the tournament than collusion is by definition unnecessary and impossible.
The guy who pulled the money over reacted and just didn't like that the match was not play the way he wanted it to be played.
The only thing the TO was calling for is a real match. What would his sponors think of him? Or even the audience who stayed? Yeah they're brothers, and they can just split the earnings, as they probably did. But there can only be one person on the top. That's all everyone was asking for.
The Feels he was using the word collusion
TheMovement85 I understand that. And yeah, it's not the right word for the situation. But everything else he did is justified, imo.
The Feels only if you think the idea of entertainment is why the players show up. yes it maybe why he is running the tournament but the players are there to have fun and win.
This reminds me of Marshawn Lynch in the NFL. He is a player he loves the game and the money that comes with it. the NFL thinks they have enough control over him to use him as a sock puppet they can trot out in front of the camera to make money. So much so if he does not do interviews they fine him hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions.
He protests by answering questions with, "I am here so I don't get fined."
So its only justified if you think the players should be there only to make the promoter money.
TheMovement85 The players have fun by performing in what they love best, which is competition. They win by giving it their all. Its bad sportsmanship when someone get to the top, and then when they get to finals, they goof off. It makes everyone look bad, the competitors, the sponsors, the TO, and it makes the onlookers feel like the person fooling around is undeserving. Can you imagine two NFL teams playing like they don't care, though they claim they love the sport?
I understand that the TO can get mad over this, but what was so bad about the match? It looked entertaining to me.
The third place person was considered the official winner, that player fought to the top and did the best s/he could.
First and second players: "Let's work together and split the winnings, but if we're both in the finals, let's fuck around and kill the spirit of a competition."
2 chances to knock out the REAL champ of the tournament? Unfair and justly looked down upon.
The guy who put money in for incentive, he wants some real stuff, not some fake mess around match as the climax.
ChikoWhat
Agreed. You spend hours upon hours of your personal time and money to make this tournament only to get people who wanna play like their just hanging out at their house or youth center just chilling? No way, that shit don't fly. He was right to get mad. If you did something like this at EVO your ass is fried on the spot and I guarantee nobody will miss you.
You wanna play games? Go the F home. You wanna compete and earn respect/skill not to mention some man's hard earned cash? Stick around you belong right here. That's the point all competitors should understand.
I dont see the big problem, if they beat everyone to get far enough to get to grand finals, let them do what the want
Nigga they were at Grand Finals. Let me repeat, GRAND FUCKING FINALS. Imagine if two teams made it to the Super Bowl, they could take it easy? Fuck no, that's boring to watch and defeats all their hard work to get to that point. Same applies here.
Shinsyn don't TO tournys anymore seriously. The over reaction over brothers who placed 1st and 2nd made just lose all respect for the Chicago scene.
dude imagine if this was how you made money. someone half assing grand finals damages viewership which then effects the stream and TO's bottom line. that would be like in the NBA finals both teams just let the other score.
If me and my bro where in the grand finals we'd do the same thing. I thought the point of games was to have fun this is why I question people that get so angry they're in Grand finals so they're better than everyone else. They earned there money already lets have some fun.
No, they earned 2nd place. Neither wins first place until after the match. And only after the fight ends does either player earn their money. It was right in the rules that were released ages before the event started, collusion would have punishments.
"the point of games is to have fun" yeah, but if you want to avoid competition, you should really stop playing fighting games.
I can see why collusion is bad, but really only from an outside betting standpoint, much like any other sport. With that said, this was ridiculous overreaction. Don't get all pissy and start cussing and yelling at everyone. Just handle your business and let it go. There should have been a punishment already set in place in case this occurred, not a random on the spot judgement by someone who was far to angry to be making any decisions. If I were those two brothers I would have been quite angry myself.
He said that he made a warning about collusion at 17:48 and I don't see why you would be angry if you were those brothers. Aren't they trolling in Grand Finals to get this kind of reaction?
Lmao like look at this dude look at these comments gettin mad about VIDEO GAMES lmfaoooooo so hardcore
What? money is involved you goofy it automatically becomes serious.
[pisses in your eye]
What the hell is colluding?????
An agreement amongst players before to split all winning earned equally or whatever is agreed on.
Let's say 2 people get 1st and 3rd, then add together and then split it.
It's usually a shady buisness as sometimes this situation happens:
The 2 people get first and second place and then throw the game out the window. Instead of playing serious and showing what 'grand finals' represents, they they 'troll/joke characters' or go 'all random'.
It kills the spirit of the competition.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok that makes sense now thx
ChikoWhat Collusion is more about not trying. Pot splitting is pretty commonplace in FGC tourneys.
Superkidra Yeah, the finals weren't given the effort it deserved, to know that the Finals is not a showstopper but just a taunt match is just sad.
So whats the big deal? They were just guns play a causal match and he wanted them to play serious? Explain?
This was a grand finals tournament match with a lot of money on the line, the score was counting, not a casual match at all. Essentially since both the players are brothers they didn't care who was going to win because they would split the money between themselves at a later date. That is 'Collusion' and it ruins grand finals in quite a few tournaments, it is also against the rules, they could've been disqualified entirely.
Regardless of what they said they'd do the facts are they both picked characters they don't play with and started messing around, in front of a crowd of onlookers who were expecting exciting high level play. This was a majorly disrespectful move, all the more so because the man who got mad spent a huge amount of time and money organizing and funding this tournament. He even added money to the prize out of his own pocket as an added incentive to bring the best players possible.
Even though he could've disqualified them both, all he did was remove the money he added to the prize fund and gave it instead to 3rd place. It was a very noble thing to do. He didn't over-react, not at all.
Gregory Hall Did you see Laugh vs Infiltration and how weird that match was? I know nothing about this two players and game but I'm just wondering if it would have been like that.
hahahah... when nerds get mad... hilarious
***** you must be new here.
PokeHax i'm not.. i just think it's hilarious when people in the fgc fight over video games.
***** Wouldn't you fight over the thing you're passionate about?
omg dude, i'm just saying it's hilarious to me. i don't have to explain myself why i think it's funny when nerds fight over video games.
but I'm not trying to attack you over it, I'm just asking a question. It's just a simple "Yes" or "No" answer. No more, no less.
it's not that serious
I think it was an over reaction they're brothers its not colluding the money going to the same place anyway I agree they coulda played they're best but honestly it doesn't matter if they still put on a good show
Nah its fine they can dick around if they want in grand finals. He'll just give 3rd place the pot bonus and 3rd place will make the bulk of the money.
Nothing like a TO overreaction
Overreaction? Man put in his work to stream a great tournament and for it to end with a collusion? Fuck that shit, he should have knocked their asses out and got rid of their money completely.
This TO is a joke. Go ahead and make yourself look like a crazy person because two brothers are just messing around. How about you act like an adult instead of screaming into a microphone and trying to puff out your chest to act cool. Why not just say "hey guys, stop messing around and play a real match or I'm going to take out $200 from the pot." Brothers would have probably laughed it off and would have played a real match. Then you don't look like a lunatic, the brothers play a real match, you show your authority, and everyone wins. Now thanks to you grand standing they didn't even play for real at the end.
I am of the opinion that the TO did not handle this at all well. To me you pay to enter the tournament with the notion of being paid according to how you place. What you do with the money or how you get there is up to you. Online poker is a decent example where situations like this arise. It gets down to 3 players, a million dollars up for grabs, and the players decide to split the money in some fashion. They leave the table because there is no point playing a game where the outcome is predetermined. Are the fans who wanted to watch an epic showdown upset? Perhaps. Are the players obligated to stay till the end, absolutely not, at the end of the day they are there to have fun and win some money. No different to if one of the finalists started playing like utter shit for no apparent reason, there would be no hype, and what, is the TO going to call bullshit because someone plays badly?
By entering the tournament there is an agreement between the organiser and the participant that if you do so well in the tournament you win something. THAT IS IT. They are not agreeing to put on a show for the crowd, they are not agreeing to only use there best characters, and try there best. They followed all the rules of the tournament, simple as that.
You fucking said they are there to try their best~
How the fuck is Colluding doing your best? those 2 asshat brothers even admitted to it " We were gonna just taunt kill each other" yea that form of trolling should get people like that banned. fuck that, play like a man and EARN your money not chicken out and agree to easy outcome.
Kaji chuu Please read before commenting: "they are NOT agreeing to only use there best characters, and try there best" - a direct quote from what I posted.
Sorry my mistake, but only cowards would take the easy way out. Its not a rule, but an obligation TO DO your best and give the crowd and nice show. Imagine you were watching an epic MMA tournament one where you paid money to see, watching fighters struggle to the very finals and then once there, the two fighters merely begin to play slap one another and merely walk around the ring for the entirety of the match. Wouldn't you feel robbed? That's how the TO felt.
Kaji chuu
Feelings and opinions should have nothing to do with running a tournament. Yes I completely understand how the TO felt, but that does not mean he handled the situation well. Once in a tournament assuming you don't cheat, how you play each match is really up to you, but whatever happens the tournament must do right by its competitors, if they weren't colluding but were generally a bit dick-ish in the community, should the TO also just pull prize money from them? The TO has a tournament to run, and the players did nothing to stop the tournament running smoothly. They played all of their matches, and would have reached an outcome. If the TO felt annoyed, he should have had a word with them either after the tournament, or just in a much calmer manner. So whilst I understand the TOs POV, I think he handled the situation very poorly.
Sure he over reacted just a bit, but how would you feel if 1st amd 2nd place just decided to troll and kill the hype of the grand finals. How well the tournament goes brings incentive for people to join up for the next one, of two asshats are gonna collude and simply taunt kill each other then his choice to pull pot bonuses was his to make. If i was the TO i would have pulled 1st place money and given it to 3rd as well. If people wanna be cheap asses and ruin a tournament, well you ain't gonna get no prize.
Lol commentator mad he lost or something
you either didn't watch the video or you don't know what collusion is.
He has no right to pull the prize. They were first and second, they beat everyone else out. Probably a friendly, "you guys have to actually try" would have done the job fine.
He has every right to pull the money, it's his pot bonus from his pocket. They still got their prizes from 1st and 2nd, but they didn't get the bonus.
He could have DQed them outright. They still got 1st and 2nd place prizes, just not the planned bonuses.
i honestly dont get what happened, but i feel that guy overreacted...
He really didn't. Imagine a Boxing match where everyone pays through the teeth to see a good fight and then both Boxers just agree to split the winnings and sit down until the bell rings. If you organised that fight, advertised and worked none stop to make sure everyone enjoys their night, wouldn't you be mad?
Collusion was forbidden in the tournament rules. He could've disqualified them both, instead all he did was take out his personal contribution to the prize money and give it to 3rd place. Very respectable.
I agree there shouldnt be no pot splitting in big tournaments, but I still feel he overreacted some.
***** he took it better than i would. They woulda been DQ'd and i wouldnt have lost a wink of sleep over it. If someone thinks they can play around in something i set up with my own money then proceeded to take my money like that, theyve got another thing coming....
***** Overreacted my ass. You just don't understand what it's like to organize an event like this and put time and effort into it, as well as your own money, just to have someone shit all over it.
Lol what's this guys problem
I mean who cares get over it... they obviously don’t care...
Complete overreaction
Can someone explain to me what's actually going on? How do they know whether or not they're colluding? One match with just a little bit of silliness (taunt battles probably shouldn't determine the grand finals but it's just something silly) and dude went ballistic. At least know for sure before you just give out the pot bonus like that. Dudes were just having a tiny bit of fun and OH MY GOD THEY'RE COLUUUUUUUUDING. People wonder why nobody wants to see this at evo. Can this even be considered colluding? Overreaction much
It isnt an overreaction at this point in the fgc there was a serious problem with colluding. Colluding is really disrespectful especially when you have sponsors watching.
Wow. That TO person needs to chill out. It's just a video game.
I disagree with the TO. But pot bonus is his money to do what he pleases. When this happened to my brother and I years ago, we decided to go to one more event thrown by the TO, get to grand finals, hit each other once and run the time out. It is not about money but pride at that point. Then we stopped going to his events.
How was yer plan "pride?" Very confused what you mean by this
I don't follow.