I'm an aviation mechanic in the US Army, and it's astounding to see how many mechanics on the civilian side don't understand the impact maintenance has on a pilot and his/her crew if present. It really is life or death and a maintainers failure to properly secure lockwire or a small cotter pin can take lives. A lot of these mistakes, like a faulty fuel gauge, are often overlooked by the schools because you get what you pay for in maintainers and it's extremely unfortunate how it happens that way. If you notice a trend with your school where maintenance is hit or miss and daily/hourly/monthly inspections, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
You should have reported them to FAA if they are renting airplane that they know has trouble. Sounds like they screwed you! Should report to Better Business!
Very good tips. Man,I would have bailed on that school!! I learned on a Cessna 150 and 172. I soloed somewhere in the low thirties, and got my license in the mid 60’s Reasonable times. I rarely had plane availability problems. I had a reasonably good instructor. There was some of the attitude of “ I’m mainly here for the hours.” Teaching is a special skill. I love teaching. Never thought flying but similarly sailing larger ocean yachts. And SCUBA diving. If you are not passionate about teaching, it shows. But wow, never had the kind of problems that you were talking about. Again thanks for the vids.
Inaccurate is probably better than inoperative, especially if you stick the tanks. I also drive heavy rigs which have the same problem. Of all the gauges, the one you never trust is fuel.
You bring up a lot of valid points. I am currently a CFI at a flight school in baltimore maryland for the last 10 years. Listening to you made me very happy to work where I do. We don't do any of the things you listed. I am a career CFI, so i'm not looking to move on the the airlines. The great thing about my school is that the boss will fire anyone who doesn't put the student's needs first. We of course have a cancellation policy, but we never charge a student if the weather is bad...that's just how this industry works. What we do do is, if a student cancels withing 24 hours, we charge them for 1 hour of the instructor's time if they are a chronic canceller (sp?) but not the airplane rental. Good video.
How do you like the life of the "Career CFI"? I am an Instrument Pilot working towards Commercial / CFI and not really interested in working for the airlines. I have been considering the Career CFI life as I enjoy teaching and feel I do well with it. It seems like a flexible, "Make-Your-Own-Schedule" sort of deal, which is what my current career in Aviation is. Though it also seems like it can be stressful and not for everyone. I know CFI's who seem to burn out easily. Hoping to pick your brain if you're okay with it. Blue skies and clear air!
Dave Stewart Yeah Don and I noticed that you said your career CFI which means that there’s no conflict of interest. How do we all know that if you were interested in flying for the airline that your tune wouldn’t change and you wouldn’t rip off students?
One recommendation I would add: never buy “block time” during training, or any time. Block time “seems” like a good deal because the hourly rate is discounted. But all you are doing is giving the FBO or training facility money up front, and tying yourself to them. My case: training for instrument rating at a Part 61 school in central NJ, circa mid 1990s. Picked school because it was close. Over time, MX deteriorated, my instructor unavailable, continued MX issues, my instructor working to build time for airlines. Instructors began to leave for no reason, with no backfill. Started getting questions as to if I was going to buy more block time and how soon (major red flag). Facility appearance, aircraft readiness, etc continued to decline. My instructor left and I was assigned another one, who wanted multiple flights to “finish me up.” I pulled the plug when my last block ran out. Within 60 days the school folded. My block time funds were keeping the place afloat! I finished my rating at an Air Force flying club within 45 days. Pay as you go, especially at Part 61 schools, is the way to go.
I agree, unless you are dealing with a very very reputable flight academy. A well established national academy. One that is not going to disappear with your money.
Ristan Jones That's right. But sometime when you are flying these school actually makes you believe it's our fault. I soloed 35 hours and all my friends in the school was around the same. So we started to believe its normal to solo in your 30-40 hr mark. Then we realised we all getting scammed.. Haha.. Well done though to solo in 10 hrs..
Ristan Jones. Clearly I went to a great school - soloed at 5h45m and qualified in 39h20m (which included 9 conversions for fun, subsequent hiring and later purchase of one. Also four hours of IFR training not part of PIC course.) Reading your, and later, tales of woe I better go back to the school to sing their praises!
I soloed at 45 hours. But it was weather related. My school's SOPs had strict solo requirements so my instructor moved me on to cross country and night flying before I soloed.
My fight school has actually been really good about keeping things progressing smoothly, I am on track to do my check-ride at just over 40 hours, which is more than the 35 minimum for Part 141. I distinctly remember my first solo, walked in, my instructor told me to prepare for my solo, signed my logbook, we did the 3 landings dual and then I was sent up. It's been an exciting time in life.
Thanks for posting an honest review. I'm really sorry that they took advantage of you like that. I was a customer there briefly before I spotted some of the same practices you pointed out (i.e. bogus cancellation policies, pushing pilots and instructors to fly despite weather and even airworthiness concerns). I went into shared ownership after that experience and found it to be *far* more enjoyable. There's no pressure to go fly to save money, no daily minimums, no students beating the airplane up, and very little scheduling competition. You can also pick your own flight instructor (i.e. you're not stuck with those on the school's roster), and you have visibility and a stake in the maintenance of the airplane (i.e. you don't have to worry about a flight school owner cheaping out and putting your life at risk to save a buck). It requires more effort on your part to comply with regulations and maintain airworthiness, and it also costs more money up front, but it's possible to save money over renting if you fly a lot and take good care of the plane. Renting might be the right thing for you right now, but thought I'd share that alternative. Anyway, I hope you found a new school or arrangement where you can truly enjoy flying the way it should be enjoyed! Keep on flying!!
omg! I went solo at 13hrs, sorry you got scammed. I trained in a C152 for my Private, you had a very nice aircraft to train in. Great advice for new students, good job.
During my PPL training, I solo'd a 1975 Piper Warrior 18PE ( ill miss that plane!!) at just 9 hours. I was lucky to have the instructor I had. He was a furloughed American Airlines type rating instructor and held type ratings in the MD-80/88, 737-600/800, Cessna Citation V and a few others. He also holds rotor wing and sea plane endorsements. What I wanted to add was that while I did my PPL training in Tampa Florida, I knew of another student pilot who went to the same FBO. The poor guy had over 85 hours in the same plane mentioned above and hadn't soloed yet!!! My instructor actually complained to the FBO about the dishonesty of the guys instructor and nothing happened. Apparently, the FBO was fine with this as they only cared about raking in profits. I do understand business but there must be a balance in the business model otherwise it will fail. The end result was the same, the FBO changed names and management. Even the airport name changed though that was a decision of the aviation authority.
Dude! I wished I’ve seen this five years ago. What you said about flight school and cfis are so true. I got milked by my school and instructors that I had to leave to go to another school (70 hours) before I could get my private certificate. Instructors will make or break you. After I left my previous school and when to a new school, it took me 11hrs to get my private. The reason for the 11 hrs was because I came from yoke to stick. For my instrument ticket; I got it done in 51 hrs ( the minimum require hrs) with my new instructor. Now I’m working on my commercial at another flight club and my instructor is incredible!!!! I just started watching your video and and looks like you live in the Atlanta area.. I saw that you was at the Pdk airport in one of your video and it looks like you are flying da40 that is rented by falcon aviation. If so... I would love to link up with you and go flying with you sometime... Great videos by way.
A common experience for many Black students . I know what I am talking about . Some schools / flight instructors kill the dreams of many future pilots .
I’m your 3rd thumbs up before I even watch the video. The sad thing is that the majority of them will cheat lie and scam you. I’m sure that keeps many people from being a pilot that otherwise would be. Been all over the country and heard or seen stuff that is just down right dishonest. From flight instructors that you have to pull knowledge from to being charged Hobbs meter time that is not accurate. If the engine is not running I should not be paying.
Something similar happened to me in Clearwater Florida during my instrument training. The story of what happened to me is kind of long and drawn out with alot of details. To shorten things considerably, I filed a complaint with the FAA, the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau ( which really is a joke) and I cc'd a copy to the Attorney General. The responses I got stated that an investigation was underway. After that, I heard very little about the complaint. After a few years had went by, I found out that several students saw my complaint somewhere and it got the ball rolling for more complaints to be filed. I thought I was the only one this was happening to but apparently it was happening to someone else. The end result?? Well that particular flight school/ FBO is no longer operating under the old name anymore and supposedly has new management. I have not been back since so im not really sure what happened, but I do know that after I filed that complaint, the name of the FBO changed. I wish you well in your training.
I did a demo flight at this school. The place is very depressing and isn't run very well. I went to a place at the Torrance airport and it was an amazing experience. I will be doing my training there.
@ 140 hours, you should straight up call your school a damn scam, that's outrageous! - Problem cases who barely try should be done in half that time. someone like you who seems interested and seeming like you were actually trying. should have been done in 40-60 hours. Hell the school I am at right now just had someone ready at 38 hours but had to just get those last two hours just cause the FAA requires it. 140 sounds like they were pick pocketing you without you realizing it.
I am amazed at what it costs for training today. When i started my quest to get my private license in 1966, I paid $5.00/hour (wet) for the plane (a 1959 Cessna 150) and $2.00/hour for the instructor. I soloed at 13 hours.
The only "joy ride" I got to do during my training was because my CFI recognized that I was so nervous that I needed to have some fun. That "joy ride" was my break thru flight. I relaxed after that flight and stopped having to repeat lessons. My training prior to my "joy ride" was lean on thing and repeat the next few flights. The "joy ride" was about hour 10 of my training.
Great video! I experienced just about all those scenarios during my training. The flight school "Airline Transport Professionals" was infamous for doing that, but being older when I started learning to fly, I was able to speak up, and also made others aware of the games being played! I was actually compensated by the school with additional hours because the instructor tactics.
MojoGrip hey mike i know it’s a little late, but i’m gonna do my solo soon and iv heard that they cut the tail of your shirt is this a actual thing that happens?keep up the good work dude.
I luckily had a very different experience. I first soloed at 27 hours (43 days) and it was a complete surprise. My instructor had no radio, he got out and said go fly and I was cut off in the pattern on my first go round. I proudly wore that ripped shirt all day, It felt better than sex. I received my private pilot certificate at 71 hours (122 days start to finish). At the time 172's were $35 to $40 wet Hobbs time and instructors were $10 -$15 per hour and that was at a fairly major airport Teterboro (TEB) ----------------------------------------------------------------1982!
I had many of the same frustrations as you had. I started at KSMO. It was close to home and that is critical in LA. My first instructor was new and I don’t think he really knew how to teach very well. Especially someone my age. I was in my late 50’s at the time. He seemed overly critical to me. He really could not really explain to me how to land the plane. I started looking for help on RUclips videos. I actually tried another flight school. That instructor was more my age and ready to get me soloed as soon as possible. I should have stayed there. But I didn’t like the older planes and it was so far away. I decided I could not deal with the commute. I went back KSMO. I had10 hours and the school sold me on getting my Private Pilots license instead of Sport. So I had to change instructors. But I was making some real progress. Then I lost that flight instructor when he went to Spain to train for a couple of weeks. So I waited. For three months. Then he got hired by an airline and was gone. I had 12 hours with him. I tried to bring up my frustrations with the manager but he was really unsympathetic. They offered zero help in finding me a new instructor. So I went back to the original instructor. I really wanted to fly and get some hours. After not flying for 3 months I was very rusty. But he still was not a good fit. I had about another 7 hours with him. I kept asking who was a good instructor. I thought I found the right guy. He was good. I started to make real progress in a couple flights. Then he decided to drop me because he was overloaded with other students. I had forty hours of time invested in this school and I still had not soloed. Two months later I found myself flying a Sling down in Torrance. These guys are a really good school. The aircraft was similar to the Sport Cruiser I had done most of my training in. The flight instructor quickly had me comfortable with the plane and felt I was ready to solo. Unfortunately, life got in the way and my budget was gone and my income dried up. I have 53 hours of flight time. I have spent the last year rebuilding to get myself to a place where I can afford to fly regularly again and I may even be able to afford my own plane. That’s the dream, right? I think I’m going to focus on a Sports Pilots license and then work on the PPL. Your videos have been very inspiring. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Times have changes, you used to be ready to solo as in as little as 10hours, and get your certificate in 40, but average was 15/50. I think maybe instructor are intentionally stretching it out so they can mane more money. A friend of mine was in the nave and they had to solo in six hours, or be drops.
One of the biggest scams is the flight school that has you flying a 60 year old worn out beer can, with antiquated avionics, worn out interior and barely held together; and a CFI thar has no real intension of helping you learn. While changing you premium rates. I taught myself how to fly while that blob sitting next to me did nothing.
That was an eye opener - wow, I feel gutted for your experience. I'm at just under 19 hours and coming up to solo - got a couple more things to check off the list. I might have been at solo just under 20 hours, but where wind conditions have meant circuits weren't really beneficial to my progress but it's still flyable we've gone off and done something else listed AFTER solo in my training schedule. Yesterday being a perfect example - could have signed off on the final items for solo but we went off and did PFLs for an hour instead. Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate that I picked a good school in the first place - I researched 6 in the area, eliminated 2 based on distance and settled with the one I use because reputation, the fact they have 4 C172s, the way they charge and how upfront they are both online and when talking to them. They're actually the most expensive of the 6, but when I factor in travel costs, the membership fees etc they'll end up being the cheapest. There was one school I rejected straight away - they charge landing fees separately (they're included in my club membership). Not too bad if you're doing standard flight, but when you're doing 6, 7, 8 circuits in a lesson landing fees could end up costing as much as the lesson itself! Maybe some more material for another video for you ;)
Extremely useful information Mike, this is the kind of thing that many professional instructors in many disciplines engage in. It’s really good of you to both advise and share your own experience. Thank you. Paul
Part of your training is to kno w how to check n see if you're a/c is airworthy! Wil be asked on you flt check guaranteed! So go over it with your student on a dsy you cant fly...
Great video. One of the big issue here charging for bad weather. If the weather is bad with very low ceiling, then they should not allow you fly and they should not charge you. Looks like your flight school was a fraud.
I'm in the middle of my private pilot training at SoCal right now, and wish I would have watched these videos sooner. I feel like these guys are nickel and diming me at every turn. My instructor really doesn't prep me for the lesson of the day. He just kinda lets me flounder until I say "Ok, what do I do now?" Maybe it's just his style of teaching, who knows. If I switch schools now I'll probably end up wasting more money. Just gonna get to my PPL and go somewhere else for my instrument.
Oh Oh. I rem saying the same thing Nick. I was at 60 hrs and I thought if i stayed at Socal, I would get my PPL between 80 and 100 hours. They kept me flying until 140 hours, and even then I was told i wasn't ready for the checkride exam. Needless to say I passed my exam at the first GO. Listen, if you notice any of the crap I mentioned in the video, LEAVE!
I soloed in 10 hours. Flew a 300 mile cross country in 15 hours got my liscense in about 45 hours, but that was about 50 years ago. I also used instructors with there own airplane not flight schools.
On subject of CFIs training student pilots to build time, while I was working on a mathematics degree, I lobbied and took a job tutoring mathematics and physics to college students, concluding it would really help me grow, having to explain mathematics to my tutees. Indeed, I constantly evaluated myself on how quickly I could get my tutees to that aha moment, the moment when they no longer needed my help. I was especially overjoyed when a tutee would attribute a stellar performance on an exam to my assistance. Bottom line, one does not understand something until one can effectively teach it. The concept can be extended to any field, including aviation. Accordingly, for a CFI not to take it seriously, not to pour their heart into it, is a troubling sign, especially if they intend to be a commercial pilot.
I switched schools for some of these scams, multiple CFI changes, hour building CFI's. My next school did the face time flight before a check ride. Everything went perfectly. Hit my check points perfectly on time to the second. He added one more checkpoint, I checked the chart and made a quick computation in my head. Hit the check point exactly, and time I estimated. After landing he asked how I worked out the last checkpoint. He told me that's not the way he does it and need to go again. I walked away and quiet. I was done being milked. Sure do miss flying though, but won't spend a dime more.
It’s sad to hear the things you went through, I soloed in 7 hours and passed my check ride at 45. SHOP SCHOOLS, INSTRUCTORS AND AIRCRAFT! Keep learning.
Facing the same troubles mate. Symptoms are too identical to what you've just mentioned.. They care only about their hours n future airline jobs.. These kinda attitudes actually kill the aviation industry itself..
@@archerpiperii2690 the fuel gauges under part 121 can be MEL that you have to take off with full tanks. Part 91 you can placker the fuel gauges as INOP but for safety sake you're better off taking off with a known state fuel tanks full
You could take off by fill off the tanks without looking to the gauges, and go for traffic pattern not the cross country flights but i wouldn't do such thing , remember the ADM ( when you realize your self saying it's gonna be fine that's a sign of hazard coming )
If you were ready to solo then you should’ve known you shouldn’t have been flying without a functional fuel gauge. If they keep flying with it, report it to FAA. That’ll get it fixed. Just remember if they aren’t worried about a fuel gauge then they probably aren’t fixing other things either.
It isn't about your hours, but if you know you've been ready for a long time (like since 10 hours) fire them. I've had 2 PPL students so far, and soloed them both under 10. They each got their check ride sign-offs at 40.0 hours TT part 61. A good instructor shouldn't take 26 hours to solo someone. The other possibilities are A) you're actually very bad in which case, the instructor should decline further service; maybe flying isn't meant for you, or more likely B) the instructors style doesn't match with you and he/she should recommend you to try someone else's teaching style and pass you off to a different CFI.
Your instructor should have multiple teaching styles and techniques. If they haven't tried a couple days to demonstrate or teach a maneuver, they probably aren't very good. It's basic FOI. Find a new CFI.
Love the perspective of someone who was a student not too long ago. Really easy to resonate with. Thank you for the heads up lol I'll be on the lookout.
All I will say I wish I knew about your school before I started with the school I am now. I haven’t experienced anything like you mentioned in this video yet, I know I have a good instructor but I known his goal is to fly big birds someday. I wish they had newer airplanes to learn on. It’s kinda like learning about dinosaurs and hoping to have a good use for that knowledge lol.
I started my website mainly to let others know there are many many bad schools who just after your money. I got scammed in many ways than just the things you mentioned.. Maybe I should make a video on that too.. Great video by the way buddy. Keep up the great work on helping out our future pilots.
Hey Ik it’s been a while sense you’ve posted this, but glacier avation in Washington state at KOLM was terrible! I was 17 at the time I started to fly to get my PPL I went a spent around 40 hours of dual instruction. They just milked as much money out of me as they could have good ppl there but at the end of the day I should’ve soloed around 20-25ish hours I recommend to anyone else watching this go to a college or an fbo with part 141 instead of just part 61 training! I promise you it’s so much better! You have a fixed schedule your gonna fly and it helps you because by the end of training it allows you to get a R-ATP way sooner than 1500hrs you need to get that ATP license depends on what kind of school it is as well but just look into it! I can’t tell you how much I’ve benefited from transferring schools!
Biggest scam: "we have newer planes at our flight school dont trust those dirty steam gauge planes 😮".. I fell for it when I was 18.. hence why I'm a broke pilot 12 years later!
Ok, you don’t fix the gauge: I don’t fly. You don’t make money from me. Your choice. No reason not to solo in less than 20 - 25 hours. Finish in 45 - 50. Any flight school that encourages a student to fly when the weather isn’t good should be put out of business. I had a number of instructors. I had to fire one of them. The best was a career instructor about sixty years old.
If they were flying that airplane with an inoperative fuel gauge, they were operating outside of CFR 14 91.205(b)(7) which requires a fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank. Never mind that they wouldn’t let you solo it, they weren’t even legal to be flying that airplane in the first place. Bad on them. There’s a lot of rules to follow, so every once and a while we all make mistakes, but this mistake went on for a while it sounds like. If a flight school consistently operated outside the regs like this, I would not engage with them at all. Clearly they are not the place to be developing as an aviator.
Yep, it it true. I have been taken also. Has one CFI in the that would always take the controls from me and yes, we did go on joy rides. He would yell at me if I forgot a checklist item and then take the airplane away from me for the almost the rest of the flight. He would milk the run-up time. I was a sucker to be taken. I complained and they fired him. Also, I had another CFI that would charge me an extra 30 minutes just to sign my log book and state two sentences. It also seems the school skimp on maintenance. I can not believe it. Like bald tires with chord showing or voids in the tire. Like, I do not like the looks of that tire, Landing lite not working, Fuel gages not working, Radio not working. I make sure the CFI had a portable radio as the the plane only had one radio. Sure enough it died and we used the handheld. I would get to the plan, trash in it, little fuel, dirty oil. They changed it every 100 hours. Yes, I know the 50 hours is optional but the oil was dirty. Also, the plane ran very hot, needle all they way to the left just before the red. And the VOR did not work properly. Wow. The next school I went to would not let me do any landings. Well, that sucks. I went to a different school again and They let me landing. Now I can land. Geez. It's really hard to find a good school.
Sounds like flight schools are run akin to car dealerships where they try to scrounge every penny they can out of a customer but instead of the ratio of one good one to three bad in flight schools it's more like the ratio of one good one to more than five bad ones in car dealerships.
The fuel gauge is just a polite way the say that you are not ready to solo just yet, it's not the right thing to do, but not being solo at 15 to 20 hours I will start to feel concern for my students. In South Africa, if you don't go solo by 35 hours we would submit a Safety Hazard report, reporting that a hazard has been identified and have to be dealt with by the Chief Flight Instructor and tested by a Designated Flight Examiner if you fail that test flight you get suspended for 2 years. If a flight instructor tells his/her student that he/she is not ready to solo it is in his/her best interest regarding safety. Canceling a flight on short notice just shows bad airmanship, a flight school's profit margin is roughly 6%, if slots are being missed it hurts a flight school a lot, other than that, imagine you booked a ticket for a flight at one of your regional airlines, you arrive at the terminal and at the gate the lady tells you sorry your flight has been canceled, the weather is CAVOK, the airplane is serviceable and standing ready on the ramp but the pilot called 2 hours ago and made up an excuse not to fly the sortie you won't be to happy either. However, if you cannot fly due to bad weather they shouldn't charge for a no show. CFI's are already flying commercially, they are getting paid to fly/train, typically 12-15 dollars US/hour which is a slap in the face for someone who spent $70 000 - $100 000 to get where they are now. It's a year and a half since you posted this, hope you have obtained/gain some new ratings man, all the best.
I've never heard of anyone taking 20 to 30 hours to solo. That's ludicrous. I've also never heard of any school charging you for the time you scheduled whether you were able to fly or not. That's also ludicrous. There's no way in hell would I pay for flight time that I was not able to take advantage of if weather or maintenance prevented me from actually flying. Earning a pilots license is expensive enough without paying for time you didn't actually fly. Mike didn't touch on this, but one thing I was warned about when I was looking into learning to fly, was flight schools that want you to pay a lump sum ahead of time for block time. There are simply too many horror stories of guy who paid four to five thousand dollars up front and two months later the school closed down and the students lost their shirts. I was fortunate in that I found a private instructor who didn't require any of that. I paid as I flew and this was a guy who taught out of love of flying and teaching and had no asperations to be an airline pilot.
why did you keep flying without waiting for the gas gauge to be fixed, and that kid shouldve said my lesson was for x time and you dont have a working plane call me back when you do
They were charging him if he had refused to fly he was still going to pay for it.....and they never tell you the plane is not ready you just have to be there on time or they will say you were not here on time and still charge you for it.......
Man sorry to hear about your experience but you got taken to the farm as they say. I would of left or reported them like some other people suggested. Very bad business. Thanks for taking the time to help others that are learning to fly. My first instructor I had for two hours and did not get along with him so I asked for another. I then soloed at 4 hrs. And got mine in 40 hours. Stayed with that guy until I got my license. Keep up the with the good information.
Make sure you keep your training records too. They belong to you. You need it to prove your training if you change schools. Don't pay everything up front. Pay for maybe 10 hours at a time. It took me about 14 hours each to solo in a helicopter and in fixed wing. Any more than 25 hours to solo is getting a bit long unless you are stretching out your training.
Ok some might say, flying on a broken fuel gauge "its not the end of world" and my response is OMG - not the technical failure itself, we can calculate fuel fills/dip the tanks etc but my gut feeling would be "If the they can fly like this and not seem bothered about I wonder what else could be wrong that I do not know about "Follow Mojo's advice, find another Flight School
I am assuming that you were dipping the tanks before flights regardless of the gage was working or not. So, you probably should have told him you will do the same thing that you have been doing for the past many flights “dipping the tanks and calculate…”. I know two wrongs don’t make it right, but that may open their eyes and incline to fix it…
Oh and this one plane I flew took about 7 attempts to get it started. It was a C-172 Carb, it was 80 degrees, first flight of the day, plenty of fuel, First flight of the day. It was something else to get it started. Then it seemed like it flew and handled like a pig. It looked ok, and passed my pre-flight inspectin but as you said, you can not see the internals. I do not understand how these planes pass the 100 hour or annual inspection. Some of the school have their own mechanics Which I think is a conflict of interest.
I had a CFI back in the 80's who was a WW II B-17 pilot who was shot down over France. None of the flying mistakes I made (and I had some doozies) even fazed him. I think he realized his guardian angel was a gangster.
Awesome video sir... those scams sound a lot like the ones done by car driving schools. Smh. Thank you for sharing this info... a novice like me truly appreciates it!
a small tip for better video, put your camera as back as you can and use a Zoom lens or a higher focal length like 85 and frame your self accordingly,, that will compress the background and lessen the perspective distortion
I plan on owning a flight simulator so I can keep practicing no matter what some flight school says. People should have a business like a game arcade, but for aviation enthusiasts
don't be too hard on yourself we all get scammed at some point , just learned valuable lesson in life, I subscribed and hope you are enjoying your flying
I was lucky. I trained at KARR, both flight schools I used did not charge a cancelation fee. Illness and life happens, there should be no cancelation fees.
I don't see the difference between flying dual or solo with a faulty gas gauge. You need reasonable operability in order to show the trend in the fuel level, while you know you can't count on it solely for exact measurement and need to base that on manual checks. By trend I mean while it doesn't have to be perfect it should be operable so you will know if the fuel is draining at an unnatural rate (in the case of a fuel leak) or if one tank is drained (because you have the tank usage set to L or R instead of both perhaps). This alerts you of a potential engine failure in time to adjust the tank usage to avert a forced landing. IMO they shouldn't be flying even with an instructor in a plane with inoperable fuel gauges. They're in the plane for a reason and that is as per the manufacturer. If the manufacturer wanted you to guess between cross country stops they would have just saved you the money of the installation.
So true about not ready to solo, faced it myself. Even first the instructor said that solo legally should be after 15 hours and practically no one fly at 15, then I saw a video on RUclips for someone flew solo on 13 hours!!!
Fact is if your paying for a service and not receiving said service thats theft and you need to file a lawsuit, The second thing i have noticed in your story is you simply allow these things to happen without any repercussions from you, If they are going to charge you for being late or cancelling then you should charge them for doing the same thing. As far as the fuel gauge thats on you, You as the pilot should have demanded the fuel gauge to be repaired before any further flights or payments for your schooling would be made, If they took to long to get the repair done, again Lawsuit and find a more reputable school.
appreciate it that you guys named the school. Also live in the So Cal area, this was one of the schools I was considering. What do you think of Whiteman Airport?
That's a x country and you should have planned it in advance. FLying so the instructor and fool around, that's crooked. My instructor soloed me in 5.5 hours at a controlled field. I got my PP in exactly 40 hours. The problem with young CFI's is they want to build time. So, you're there to learn to fly, not to do hour building for some a.h. cfi.
Anybody now about a flight school or flight instructor in new york or anyother state close to new york like ct , nj it can be upstate too pls lmk thanks .
Mojo, please think about naming that flight school. People need to be aware. 60hrs before a solo is insane.
Really 60 hrs are you crazy way to high
I'm an aviation mechanic in the US Army, and it's astounding to see how many mechanics on the civilian side don't understand the impact maintenance has on a pilot and his/her crew if present. It really is life or death and a maintainers failure to properly secure lockwire or a small cotter pin can take lives. A lot of these mistakes, like a faulty fuel gauge, are often overlooked by the schools because you get what you pay for in maintainers and it's extremely unfortunate how it happens that way. If you notice a trend with your school where maintenance is hit or miss and daily/hourly/monthly inspections, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
"You get what you pay for. "
Now THAT would be nice!
Turns out my instructor’s really chill
You should have reported them to FAA if they are renting airplane that they know has trouble. Sounds like they screwed you! Should report to Better Business!
Usually I have other instructors give phase check even a fed if available; we want to know what you don't know or missed!
Very good tips. Man,I would have bailed on that school!! I learned on a Cessna 150 and 172. I soloed somewhere in the low thirties, and got my license in the mid 60’s Reasonable times. I rarely had plane availability problems. I had a reasonably good instructor. There was some of the attitude of “ I’m mainly here for the hours.” Teaching is a special skill. I love teaching. Never thought flying but similarly sailing larger ocean yachts. And SCUBA diving. If you are not passionate about teaching, it shows. But wow, never had the kind of problems that you were talking about. Again thanks for the vids.
I can’t remember ever renting a plane with an accurate fuel gauge, I always stick the tanks
Inaccurate is probably better than inoperative, especially if you stick the tanks. I also drive heavy rigs which have the same problem. Of all the gauges, the one you never trust is fuel.
Common sense isn't common anymore.
Yep, I stick the tank myself. Not going to be really fun running of fuel up there.
You bring up a lot of valid points. I am currently a CFI at a flight school in baltimore maryland for the last 10 years. Listening to you made me very happy to work where I do. We don't do any of the things you listed. I am a career CFI, so i'm not looking to move on the the airlines. The great thing about my school is that the boss will fire anyone who doesn't put the student's needs first. We of course have a cancellation policy, but we never charge a student if the weather is bad...that's just how this industry works. What we do do is, if a student cancels withing 24 hours, we charge them for 1 hour of the instructor's time if they are a chronic canceller (sp?) but not the airplane rental. Good video.
How do you like the life of the "Career CFI"? I am an Instrument Pilot working towards Commercial / CFI and not really interested in working for the airlines. I have been considering the Career CFI life as I enjoy teaching and feel I do well with it. It seems like a flexible, "Make-Your-Own-Schedule" sort of deal, which is what my current career in Aviation is. Though it also seems like it can be stressful and not for everyone. I know CFI's who seem to burn out easily. Hoping to pick your brain if you're okay with it. Blue skies and clear air!
Dave Stewart Yeah Don and I noticed that you said your career CFI which means that there’s no conflict of interest. How do we all know that if you were interested in flying for the airline that your tune wouldn’t change and you wouldn’t rip off students?
Which flight school is it?. I'm looking one to join. Part 61.
One recommendation I would add: never buy “block time” during training, or any time. Block time “seems” like a good deal because the hourly rate is discounted. But all you are doing is giving the FBO or training facility money up front, and tying yourself to them. My case: training for instrument rating at a Part 61 school in central NJ, circa mid 1990s. Picked school because it was close. Over time, MX deteriorated, my instructor unavailable, continued MX issues, my instructor working to build time for airlines. Instructors began to leave for no reason, with no backfill. Started getting questions as to if I was going to buy more block time and how soon (major red flag). Facility appearance, aircraft readiness, etc continued to decline. My instructor left and I was assigned another one, who wanted multiple flights to “finish me up.” I pulled the plug when my last block ran out. Within 60 days the school folded. My block time funds were keeping the place afloat! I finished my rating at an Air Force flying club within 45 days. Pay as you go, especially at Part 61 schools, is the way to go.
I agree, unless you are dealing with a very very reputable flight academy. A well established national academy. One that is not going to disappear with your money.
What does MX mean
@@LicenseToTill weather
@@ralphmazraani5925 thx. Thought it was Wx haha. Private pilot since last Saturday!! :)
By Air Force flying club did you mean the Civil Air Patrol units?
I've heard it's a great way to train and cost effective for seniors.
Man, they scammed the crap out of you. I soloed in ten hours got my license in 50. Sometimes you just have to leave.
Ristan Jones That's right. But sometime when you are flying these school actually makes you believe it's our fault. I soloed 35 hours and all my friends in the school was around the same. So we started to believe its normal to solo in your 30-40 hr mark. Then we realised we all getting scammed.. Haha.. Well done though to solo in 10 hrs..
Ristan Jones what schooled is that?
where did you go what was your total costs
Ristan Jones. Clearly I went to a great school - soloed at 5h45m and qualified in 39h20m (which included 9 conversions for fun, subsequent hiring and later purchase of one. Also four hours of IFR training not part of PIC course.) Reading your, and later, tales of woe I better go back to the school to sing their praises!
I soloed at 45 hours. But it was weather related. My school's SOPs had strict solo requirements so my instructor moved me on to cross country and night flying before I soloed.
My fight school has actually been really good about keeping things progressing smoothly, I am on track to do my check-ride at just over 40 hours, which is more than the 35 minimum for Part 141. I distinctly remember my first solo, walked in, my instructor told me to prepare for my solo, signed my logbook, we did the 3 landings dual and then I was sent up. It's been an exciting time in life.
Thanks for posting an honest review. I'm really sorry that they took advantage of you like that. I was a customer there briefly before I spotted some of the same practices you pointed out (i.e. bogus cancellation policies, pushing pilots and instructors to fly despite weather and even airworthiness concerns). I went into shared ownership after that experience and found it to be *far* more enjoyable. There's no pressure to go fly to save money, no daily minimums, no students beating the airplane up, and very little scheduling competition. You can also pick your own flight instructor (i.e. you're not stuck with those on the school's roster), and you have visibility and a stake in the maintenance of the airplane (i.e. you don't have to worry about a flight school owner cheaping out and putting your life at risk to save a buck). It requires more effort on your part to comply with regulations and maintain airworthiness, and it also costs more money up front, but it's possible to save money over renting if you fly a lot and take good care of the plane. Renting might be the right thing for you right now, but thought I'd share that alternative.
Anyway, I hope you found a new school or arrangement where you can truly enjoy flying the way it should be enjoyed! Keep on flying!!
omg! I went solo at 13hrs, sorry you got scammed. I trained in a C152 for my Private, you had a very nice aircraft to train in. Great advice for new students, good job.
During my PPL training, I solo'd a 1975 Piper Warrior 18PE ( ill miss that plane!!) at just 9 hours. I was lucky to have the instructor I had. He was a furloughed American Airlines type rating instructor and held type ratings in the MD-80/88, 737-600/800, Cessna Citation V and a few others. He also holds rotor wing and sea plane endorsements. What I wanted to add was that while I did my PPL training in Tampa Florida, I knew of another student pilot who went to the same FBO. The poor guy had over 85 hours in the same plane mentioned above and hadn't soloed yet!!! My instructor actually complained to the FBO about the dishonesty of the guys instructor and nothing happened. Apparently, the FBO was fine with this as they only cared about raking in profits. I do understand business but there must be a balance in the business model otherwise it will fail. The end result was the same, the FBO changed names and management. Even the airport name changed though that was a decision of the aviation authority.
Dude! I wished I’ve seen this five years ago. What you said about flight school and cfis are so true. I got milked by my school and instructors that I had to leave to go to another school (70 hours) before I could get my private certificate. Instructors will make or break you. After I left my previous school and when to a new school, it took me 11hrs to get my private. The reason for the 11 hrs was because I came from yoke to stick. For my instrument ticket; I got it done in 51 hrs ( the minimum require hrs) with my new instructor. Now I’m working on my commercial at another flight club and my instructor is incredible!!!! I just started watching your video and and looks like you live in the Atlanta area.. I saw that you was at the Pdk airport in one of your video and it looks like you are flying da40 that is rented by falcon aviation. If so... I would love to link up with you and go flying with you sometime... Great videos by way.
A common experience for many Black students . I know what I am talking about . Some schools / flight instructors kill the dreams of many future pilots .
A common experience for many woman students.
Give them a 1 Star review on google and yelp
Appreciate your channel. Ive been meaning to do this for a long time. Going to check out flight schools today.
I’m your 3rd thumbs up before I even watch the video. The sad thing is that the majority of them will cheat lie and scam you. I’m sure that keeps many people from being a pilot that otherwise would be. Been all over the country and heard or seen stuff that is just down right dishonest. From flight instructors that you have to pull knowledge from to being charged Hobbs meter time that is not accurate. If the engine is not running I should not be paying.
Something similar happened to me in Clearwater Florida during my instrument training. The story of what happened to me is kind of long and drawn out with alot of details. To shorten things considerably, I filed a complaint with the FAA, the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau ( which really is a joke) and I cc'd a copy to the Attorney General. The responses I got stated that an investigation was underway. After that, I heard very little about the complaint. After a few years had went by, I found out that several students saw my complaint somewhere and it got the ball rolling for more complaints to be filed. I thought I was the only one this was happening to but apparently it was happening to someone else. The end result?? Well that particular flight school/ FBO is no longer operating under the old name anymore and supposedly has new management. I have not been back since so im not really sure what happened, but I do know that after I filed that complaint, the name of the FBO changed. I wish you well in your training.
I did a demo flight at this school. The place is very depressing and isn't run very well. I went to a place at the Torrance airport and it was an amazing experience. I will be doing my training there.
@ 140 hours, you should straight up call your school a damn scam, that's outrageous! - Problem cases who barely try should be done in half that time. someone like you who seems interested and seeming like you were actually trying. should have been done in 40-60 hours. Hell the school I am at right now just had someone ready at 38 hours but had to just get those last two hours just cause the FAA requires it. 140 sounds like they were pick pocketing you without you realizing it.
I am amazed at what it costs for training today. When i started my quest to get my private license in 1966, I paid $5.00/hour (wet) for the plane (a 1959 Cessna 150) and $2.00/hour for the instructor. I soloed at 13 hours.
I mean you are talking about a 54 year GAP, imagin how easy it was to fly in 1912 considering you just had to build the plane.
The only "joy ride" I got to do during my training was because my CFI recognized that I was so nervous that I needed to have some fun. That "joy ride" was my break thru flight. I relaxed after that flight and stopped having to repeat lessons. My training prior to my "joy ride" was lean on thing and repeat the next few flights. The "joy ride" was about hour 10 of my training.
Sure can attest to experiences like and similar to yours, oh that someone would Immediately look into these Wicked practices.
My flight school has a flight training program which you can see. My instructor is fantastic and the whole flight school is like a big family.
Great video! I experienced just about all those scenarios during my training. The flight school "Airline Transport Professionals" was infamous for doing that, but being older when I started learning to fly, I was able to speak up, and also made others aware of the games being played! I was actually compensated by the school with additional hours because the instructor tactics.
Wow! now if we can all do the same. Good for you.
MojoGrip hey mike i know it’s a little late, but i’m gonna do my solo soon and iv heard that they cut the tail of your shirt is this a actual thing that happens?keep up the good work dude.
That flight school is ridiculous, thankyou for discussing this nightmare. I am looking to get my pilot license so watching your videos is awesome
I luckily had a very different experience. I first soloed at 27 hours (43 days) and it was a complete surprise.
My instructor had no radio, he got out and said go fly and I was cut off in the pattern on my first go round.
I proudly wore that ripped shirt all day, It felt better than sex.
I received my private pilot certificate at 71 hours (122 days start to finish).
At the time 172's were $35 to $40 wet Hobbs time and instructors were $10 -$15 per hour
and that was at a fairly major airport Teterboro (TEB) ----------------------------------------------------------------1982!
I had many of the same frustrations as you had. I started at KSMO. It was close to home and that is critical in LA. My first instructor was new and I don’t think he really knew how to teach very well. Especially someone my age. I was in my late 50’s at the time. He seemed overly critical to me. He really could not really explain to me how to land the plane. I started looking for help on RUclips videos. I actually tried another flight school. That instructor was more my age and ready to get me soloed as soon as possible. I should have stayed there. But I didn’t like the older planes and it was so far away. I decided I could not deal with the commute.
I went back KSMO. I had10 hours and the school sold me on getting my Private Pilots license instead of Sport. So I had to change instructors. But I was making some real progress. Then I lost that flight instructor when he went to Spain to train for a couple of weeks. So I waited. For three months. Then he got hired by an airline and was gone. I had 12 hours with him. I tried to bring up my frustrations with the manager but he was really unsympathetic. They offered zero help in finding me a new instructor. So I went back to the original instructor. I really wanted to fly and get some hours. After not flying for 3 months I was very rusty. But he still was not a good fit. I had about another 7 hours with him.
I kept asking who was a good instructor. I thought I found the right guy. He was good. I started to make real progress in a couple flights. Then he decided to drop me because he was overloaded with other students. I had forty hours of time invested in this school and I still had not soloed.
Two months later I found myself flying a Sling down in Torrance. These guys are a really good school. The aircraft was similar to the Sport Cruiser I had done most of my training in. The flight instructor quickly had me comfortable with the plane and felt I was ready to solo. Unfortunately, life got in the way and my budget was gone and my income dried up. I have 53 hours of flight time.
I have spent the last year rebuilding to get myself to a place where I can afford to fly regularly again and I may even be able to afford my own plane. That’s the dream, right? I think I’m going to focus on a Sports Pilots license and then work on the PPL. Your videos have been very inspiring. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Times have changes, you used to be ready to solo as in as little as 10hours, and get your certificate in 40, but average was 15/50. I think maybe instructor are intentionally stretching it out so they can mane more money. A friend of mine was in the nave and they had to solo in six hours, or be drops.
One of the biggest scams is the flight school that has you flying a 60 year old worn out beer can, with antiquated avionics, worn out interior and barely held together; and a CFI thar has no real intension of helping you learn. While changing you premium rates. I taught myself how to fly while that blob sitting next to me did nothing.
That was an eye opener - wow, I feel gutted for your experience. I'm at just under 19 hours and coming up to solo - got a couple more things to check off the list. I might have been at solo just under 20 hours, but where wind conditions have meant circuits weren't really beneficial to my progress but it's still flyable we've gone off and done something else listed AFTER solo in my training schedule. Yesterday being a perfect example - could have signed off on the final items for solo but we went off and did PFLs for an hour instead.
Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate that I picked a good school in the first place - I researched 6 in the area, eliminated 2 based on distance and settled with the one I use because reputation, the fact they have 4 C172s, the way they charge and how upfront they are both online and when talking to them. They're actually the most expensive of the 6, but when I factor in travel costs, the membership fees etc they'll end up being the cheapest.
There was one school I rejected straight away - they charge landing fees separately (they're included in my club membership). Not too bad if you're doing standard flight, but when you're doing 6, 7, 8 circuits in a lesson landing fees could end up costing as much as the lesson itself!
Maybe some more material for another video for you ;)
Extremely useful information Mike, this is the kind of thing that many professional instructors in many disciplines engage in. It’s really good of you to both advise and share your own experience.
Thank you.
Paul
I wish this video came out in 2015. I spent 11 months on a PPL because of some of the reasons you mentioned
Congrats! hopefully others learn and don't repeat some of the same mistakes.
Why didn't you make a video and save him the trouble...lol
Mikhail Mannetti are you serious?
I got about 7 hours under my belt and my instructor is already talking about me going solo
Oh congrats. but make sure you don’t wear your favorite shirt on your solo lmao.
Part of your training is to kno w how to check n see if you're a/c is airworthy! Wil be asked on you flt check guaranteed! So go over it with your student on a dsy you cant fly...
My brother please upload more of these helpful videos!!!!
Thanks for the tips, FS channel had simular issues. Now I know what to look out for
Great video. One of the big issue here charging for bad weather. If the weather is bad with very low ceiling, then they should not allow you fly and they should not charge you. Looks like your flight school was a fraud.
Thanks Mojo! As I'm researching flight schools right now, this really helps! Sub'd!
I'm in the middle of my private pilot training at SoCal right now, and wish I would have watched these videos sooner. I feel like these guys are nickel and diming me at every turn. My instructor really doesn't prep me for the lesson of the day. He just kinda lets me flounder until I say "Ok, what do I do now?" Maybe it's just his style of teaching, who knows. If I switch schools now I'll probably end up wasting more money. Just gonna get to my PPL and go somewhere else for my instrument.
Oh Oh. I rem saying the same thing Nick. I was at 60 hrs and I thought if i stayed at Socal, I would get my PPL between 80 and 100 hours. They kept me flying until 140 hours, and even then I was told i wasn't ready for the checkride exam. Needless to say I passed my exam at the first GO. Listen, if you notice any of the crap I mentioned in the video, LEAVE!
Leave
Sounds like two things, one they really wanted your money and two you were too nice to them.
He is a really cool guy lol sucks to see someone like that get taken advantage of. Feels like it could be me
I soloed in 10 hours. Flew a 300 mile cross country in 15 hours got my liscense in about 45 hours, but that was about 50 years ago. I also used instructors with there own airplane not flight schools.
On subject of CFIs training student pilots to build time, while I was working on a mathematics degree, I lobbied and took a job tutoring mathematics and physics to college students, concluding it would really help me grow, having to explain mathematics to my tutees. Indeed, I constantly evaluated myself on how quickly I could get my tutees to that aha moment, the moment when they no longer needed my help. I was especially overjoyed when a tutee would attribute a stellar performance on an exam to my assistance. Bottom line, one does not understand something until one can effectively teach it. The concept can be extended to any field, including aviation. Accordingly, for a CFI not to take it seriously, not to pour their heart into it, is a troubling sign, especially if they intend to be a commercial pilot.
I switched schools for some of these scams, multiple CFI changes, hour building CFI's. My next school did the face time flight before a check ride. Everything went perfectly. Hit my check points perfectly on time to the second. He added one more checkpoint, I checked the chart and made a quick computation in my head. Hit the check point exactly, and time I estimated. After landing he asked how I worked out the last checkpoint. He told me that's not the way he does it and need to go again. I walked away and quiet. I was done being milked. Sure do miss flying though, but won't spend a dime more.
It’s sad to hear the things you went through, I soloed in 7 hours and passed my check ride at 45. SHOP SCHOOLS, INSTRUCTORS AND AIRCRAFT! Keep learning.
Facing the same troubles mate. Symptoms are too identical to what you've just mentioned.. They care only about their hours n future airline jobs.. These kinda attitudes actually kill the aviation industry itself..
Love the channel bro. I wasn't going to subscribe but after watching great vid after great vid I was in. 👍🏼👍🏼
If there is something 'wrong' with the aircraft (faulty fuel gauge) why are you taking in off the ground?
I had the same thought: Fuel Gauges are required equipment per 91.205
@@archerpiperii2690 the fuel gauges under part 121 can be MEL that you have to take off with full tanks. Part 91 you can placker the fuel gauges as INOP but for safety sake you're better off taking off with a known state fuel tanks full
You could take off by fill off the tanks without looking to the gauges, and go for traffic pattern not the cross country flights but i wouldn't do such thing , remember the ADM ( when you realize your self saying it's gonna be fine that's a sign of hazard coming )
@@jeffdo9195 I find highly unlikely you can Inop a fuel gauge under 91 without an MEL. Do you have a reference for that?
@@justusetpecator can you reference that it is needed. Your challenging me prove me wrong
If you were ready to solo then you should’ve known you shouldn’t have been flying without a functional fuel gauge. If they keep flying with it, report it to FAA. That’ll get it fixed. Just remember if they aren’t worried about a fuel gauge then they probably aren’t fixing other things either.
Good tips. Good video. Thanks for sharing. Another good pilot.
I'm at 26 hours and haven't soloed. looking for another CFI
It isn't about your hours, but if you know you've been ready for a long time (like since 10 hours) fire them. I've had 2 PPL students so far, and soloed them both under 10. They each got their check ride sign-offs at 40.0 hours TT part 61. A good instructor shouldn't take 26 hours to solo someone. The other possibilities are A) you're actually very bad in which case, the instructor should decline further service; maybe flying isn't meant for you, or more likely B) the instructors style doesn't match with you and he/she should recommend you to try someone else's teaching style and pass you off to a different CFI.
Your instructor should have multiple teaching styles and techniques. If they haven't tried a couple days to demonstrate or teach a maneuver, they probably aren't very good. It's basic FOI.
Find a new CFI.
Love the perspective of someone who was a student not too long ago. Really easy to resonate with. Thank you for the heads up lol I'll be on the lookout.
All I will say I wish I knew about your school before I started with the school I am now. I haven’t experienced anything like you mentioned in this video yet, I know I have a good instructor but I known his goal is to fly big birds someday. I wish they had newer airplanes to learn on. It’s kinda like learning about dinosaurs and hoping to have a good use for that knowledge lol.
I started my website mainly to let others know there are many many bad schools who just after your money. I got scammed in many ways than just the things you mentioned.. Maybe I should make a video on that too.. Great video by the way buddy. Keep up the great work on helping out our future pilots.
Hey Ik it’s been a while sense you’ve posted this, but glacier avation in Washington state at KOLM was terrible! I was 17 at the time I started to fly to get my PPL I went a spent around 40 hours of dual instruction. They just milked as much money out of me as they could have good ppl there but at the end of the day I should’ve soloed around 20-25ish hours I recommend to anyone else watching this go to a college or an fbo with part 141 instead of just part 61 training! I promise you it’s so much better! You have a fixed schedule your gonna fly and it helps you because by the end of training it allows you to get a R-ATP way sooner than 1500hrs you need to get that ATP license depends on what kind of school it is as well but just look into it! I can’t tell you how much I’ve benefited from transferring schools!
Awesome video. Thanks for taking the time to look out for others.
Biggest scam: "we have newer planes at our flight school dont trust those dirty steam gauge planes 😮".. I fell for it when I was 18.. hence why I'm a broke pilot 12 years later!
Ok, you don’t fix the gauge: I don’t fly. You don’t make money from me. Your choice.
No reason not to solo in less than 20 - 25 hours. Finish in 45 - 50.
Any flight school that encourages a student to fly when the weather isn’t good should be put out of business.
I had a number of instructors. I had to fire one of them. The best was a career instructor about sixty years old.
If they were flying that airplane with an inoperative fuel gauge, they were operating outside of CFR 14 91.205(b)(7) which requires a fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank. Never mind that they wouldn’t let you solo it, they weren’t even legal to be flying that airplane in the first place. Bad on them. There’s a lot of rules to follow, so every once and a while we all make mistakes, but this mistake went on for a while it sounds like. If a flight school consistently operated outside the regs like this, I would not engage with them at all. Clearly they are not the place to be developing as an aviator.
Super useful information sir! Thanks for recording/posting.
This is great advice! Thanks for posting!
Enjoying your videos man I want to fly so bad
Wow Mike that’s sad. 60 hours before solo is crazy !
Yep, it it true. I have been taken also. Has one CFI in the that would always take the controls from me and yes, we did go on joy rides. He would yell at me if I forgot a checklist item and then take the airplane away from me for the almost the rest of the flight. He would milk the run-up time. I was a sucker to be taken. I complained and they fired him. Also, I had another CFI that would charge me an extra 30 minutes just to sign my log book and state two sentences. It also seems the school skimp on maintenance. I can not believe it. Like bald tires with chord showing or voids in the tire. Like, I do not like the looks of that tire, Landing lite not working, Fuel gages not working, Radio not working. I make sure the CFI had a portable radio as the the plane only had one radio. Sure enough it died and we used the handheld. I would get to the plan, trash in it, little fuel, dirty oil. They changed it every 100 hours. Yes, I know the 50 hours is optional but the oil was dirty. Also, the plane ran very hot, needle all they way to the left just before the red. And the VOR did not work properly. Wow. The next school I went to would not let me do any landings. Well, that sucks. I went to a different school again and They let me landing. Now I can land. Geez. It's really hard to find a good school.
Sounds like flight schools are run akin to car dealerships where they try to scrounge every penny they can out of a customer but instead of the ratio of one good one to three bad in flight schools it's more like the ratio of one good one to more than five bad ones in car dealerships.
You should make your next video on top flight schools in your area. And run down the list you just talked about.
Mojo Grip, watching our Six.
Thank you for the insights! I am pursing my PPL and about to take my PAR exam 😎 so I greatly appreciate you sharing your experience.
The fuel gauge is just a polite way the say that you are not ready to solo just yet, it's not the right thing to do, but not being solo at 15 to 20 hours I will start to feel concern for my students. In South Africa, if you don't go solo by 35 hours we would submit a Safety Hazard report, reporting that a hazard has been identified and have to be dealt with by the Chief Flight Instructor and tested by a Designated Flight Examiner if you fail that test flight you get suspended for 2 years. If a flight instructor tells his/her student that he/she is not ready to solo it is in his/her best interest regarding safety. Canceling a flight on short notice just shows bad airmanship, a flight school's profit margin is roughly 6%, if slots are being missed it hurts a flight school a lot, other than that, imagine you booked a ticket for a flight at one of your regional airlines, you arrive at the terminal and at the gate the lady tells you sorry your flight has been canceled, the weather is CAVOK, the airplane is serviceable and standing ready on the ramp but the pilot called 2 hours ago and made up an excuse not to fly the sortie you won't be to happy either. However, if you cannot fly due to bad weather they shouldn't charge for a no show. CFI's are already flying commercially, they are getting paid to fly/train, typically 12-15 dollars US/hour which is a slap in the face for someone who spent $70 000 - $100 000 to get where they are now. It's a year and a half since you posted this, hope you have obtained/gain some new ratings man, all the best.
man that school is horrific...it should be locked down
Osman Issa hahaha.. So true..
I've never heard of anyone taking 20 to 30 hours to solo. That's ludicrous. I've also never heard of any school charging you for the time you scheduled whether you were able to fly or not. That's also ludicrous. There's no way in hell would I pay for flight time that I was not able to take advantage of if weather or maintenance prevented me from actually flying. Earning a pilots license is expensive enough without paying for time you didn't actually fly. Mike didn't touch on this, but one thing I was warned about when I was looking into learning to fly, was flight schools that want you to pay a lump sum ahead of time for block time. There are simply too many horror stories of guy who paid four to five thousand dollars up front and two months later the school closed down and the students lost their shirts. I was fortunate in that I found a private instructor who didn't require any of that. I paid as I flew and this was a guy who taught out of love of flying and teaching and had no asperations to be an airline pilot.
why did you keep flying without waiting for the gas gauge to be fixed, and that kid shouldve said my lesson was for x time and you dont have a working plane call me back when you do
They were charging him if he had refused to fly he was still going to pay for it.....and they never tell you the plane is not ready you just have to be there on time or they will say you were not here on time and still charge you for it.......
Great one my brother and so true
Man sorry to hear about your experience but you got taken to the farm as they say. I would of left or reported them like some other people suggested. Very bad business. Thanks for taking the time to help others that are learning to fly.
My first instructor I had for two hours and did not get along with him so I asked for another. I then soloed at 4 hrs. And got mine in 40 hours. Stayed with that guy until I got my license. Keep up the with the good information.
I'm way late to this video but timeless information.
Thank you for the tips brother!
My first instructor was a milkman, got rid of him at 10 hours then found a new one and soloed in 4 hours. So you are right, beware of teat puller.
Make sure you keep your training records too. They belong to you. You need it to prove your training if you change schools. Don't pay everything up front. Pay for maybe 10 hours at a time. It took me about 14 hours each to solo in a helicopter and in fixed wing. Any more than 25 hours to solo is getting a bit long unless you are stretching out your training.
Oh wow, I just did my solo at 5 hours. Im so glad my instructor and school are honest!
Ok some might say, flying on a broken fuel gauge "its not the end of world" and my response is OMG - not the technical failure itself, we can calculate fuel fills/dip the tanks etc but my gut feeling would be "If the they can fly like this and not seem bothered about I wonder what else could be wrong that I do not know about "Follow Mojo's advice, find another Flight School
Yes my instructor. Duvern miiller started doing wheelies when landing didn't let me land the plane. Left to airlines with my block time
I am assuming that you were dipping the tanks before flights regardless of the gage was working or not. So, you probably should have told him you will do the same thing that you have been doing for the past many flights “dipping the tanks and calculate…”. I know two wrongs don’t make it right, but that may open their eyes and incline to fix it…
Oh and this one plane I flew took about 7 attempts to get it started. It was a C-172 Carb, it was 80 degrees, first flight of the day, plenty of fuel, First flight of the day. It was something else to get it started. Then it seemed like it flew and handled like a pig. It looked ok, and passed my pre-flight inspectin but as you said, you can not see the internals. I do not understand how these planes pass the 100 hour or annual inspection. Some of the school have their own mechanics Which I think is a conflict of interest.
I had a CFI back in the 80's who was a WW II B-17 pilot who was shot down over France. None of the flying mistakes I made (and I had some doozies) even fazed him. I think he realized his guardian angel was a gangster.
Awesome video sir... those scams sound a lot like the ones done by car driving schools. Smh. Thank you for sharing this info... a novice like me truly appreciates it!
a small tip for better video, put your camera as back as you can and use a Zoom lens or a higher focal length like 85 and frame your self accordingly,, that will compress the background and lessen the perspective distortion
Appreciate the constructive feedback. Thanks.
@@mojogrip I am just big fan. Been learning a lot from the channel as I am approaching my school starting day .. so thank you for your efforts
I plan on owning a flight simulator so I can keep practicing no matter what some flight school says. People should have a business like a game arcade, but for aviation enthusiasts
don't be too hard on yourself we all get scammed at some point , just learned valuable lesson in life, I subscribed and hope you are enjoying your flying
I was lucky. I trained at KARR, both flight schools I used did not charge a cancelation fee. Illness and life happens, there should be no cancelation fees.
I don't see the difference between flying dual or solo with a faulty gas gauge. You need reasonable operability in order to show the trend in the fuel level, while you know you can't count on it solely for exact measurement and need to base that on manual checks. By trend I mean while it doesn't have to be perfect it should be operable so you will know if the fuel is draining at an unnatural rate (in the case of a fuel leak) or if one tank is drained (because you have the tank usage set to L or R instead of both perhaps). This alerts you of a potential engine failure in time to adjust the tank usage to avert a forced landing. IMO they shouldn't be flying even with an instructor in a plane with inoperable fuel gauges. They're in the plane for a reason and that is as per the manufacturer. If the manufacturer wanted you to guess between cross country stops they would have just saved you the money of the installation.
On joy rides just bomb them with questions and call it conversation
Thank you for sharing your experience. Very helpful.
So true about not ready to solo, faced it myself. Even first the instructor said that solo legally should be after 15 hours and practically no one fly at 15, then I saw a video on RUclips for someone flew solo on 13 hours!!!
12.5 for me...
Fact is if your paying for a service and not receiving said service thats theft and you need to file a lawsuit, The second thing i have noticed in your story is you simply allow these things to happen without any repercussions from you, If they are going to charge you for being late or cancelling then you should charge them for doing the same thing. As far as the fuel gauge thats on you, You as the pilot should have demanded the fuel gauge to be repaired before any further flights or payments for your schooling would be made, If they took to long to get the repair done, again Lawsuit and find a more reputable school.
are you talking about So Cal Flying Club, I live in the Arcadia area.
Yea that's where I did my training :)
MojoGrip Good to note. I'll be avoiding them.
What airport
San Gabriel Valley Airport/ formerly known as El Monte Airport
appreciate it that you guys named the school. Also live in the So Cal area, this was one of the schools I was considering. What do you think of Whiteman Airport?
Good advice. We wouldn't have known these types of scams.
I soloed after 4hrs of training!! Why so many hours now???
That's a x country and you should have planned it in advance. FLying so the instructor and fool around, that's crooked. My instructor soloed me in 5.5 hours at a controlled field. I got my PP in exactly 40 hours. The problem with young CFI's is they want to build time. So, you're there to learn to fly, not to do hour building for some a.h. cfi.
Anybody now about a flight school or flight instructor in new york or anyother state close to new york like ct , nj it can be upstate too pls lmk thanks .
I would email Mike directly, I love this guy's videos and I'm sure he's got connections throughout the country