I’m very impressed with your edits. Many other RUclips channels don’t bother to correct errors and make clarifications. Thanks for taking the time. In addition, I found the introductory edit to be a very succinct comparison of the Tesla, Ford and Cruise offerings. Good work!
I work for a software company that sells software as a service for a re-occurring fee. IMO, if the company is doing real time updates and improvements to the car after the purchase then a subscription model makes sense. If they are charging for something like heated seats then I think it is ridiculous.
I've never been a fan of subscriptions, so the slow move by corporations toward subscriptions is saving me money since I won't purchase those and I find I need those items less than I thought.
Having watched a large number of your videos as a subscriber I am not in the least surprised at this thorough display of honesty and integrity. Thanks for the correction of a minor speed bump on your lengthy highway of sterling and well researched information. Yes, we are all human and may it ever be so. Cheers from Ottawa, ON
Such excellent coverage of Open Pilot (OPGM) and Comma driver assist systems. I too don't believe in monthly software subscriptions for hardware that was purchased. Might consider if subscription period was 3-5 years long. The problem with subscription models is they need to deliver supplemental value with each renewal period. In the context of a print material like magazines, newspapers, this meant new content delivery. The same is true today of cable TV, or streaming media services. They delivering new content each subscription period. A subscription that doesn't deliver new content (features) is just a lease, or membership, which has a much lower value proposition. More like a gym membership, which may only be used seasonally.
Love you all. 1 minor error in the edited post, though hopefully not too big an issue. With advance autopilot or FSD, it's not either or there can be co-operation. You can request either version changes lanes simply by putting the blinker on. It'll make turns by itself, no need to handle the wheel during turns our line changes, unless the car requests it to make sure you're paying attention.
I am very impressed with the integrity, grace, and professionalism of this channel, and the willingness to update with more accurate information. Thanks for understanding that we (sometimes irascible) viewers are human as well. I appreciate your channel and your entire team, and what you stand for. I think these autonomous driving features will make the roads safer and save lives. I understand having to pay a lot for the development of these features in these early times-and I appreciate witnessing the evolution of the technology first-hand. When I bought FSD it was $7k, and now it's more than double that. I wish I had a choice to either sell the feature with the car or transfer it to a newer vehicle I purchase. I think I'd be much more likely to buy a newer Tesla sooner if I could take FSD with me when I do. I appreciate that Tesla and others include some basic autonomous driving functionality as standard, yet offer more advanced features for a cost. Perhaps, when the technology is fully developed, the cost for the advanced features will come down. I didn't think I'd use autonomous features as much as I actually do-and will likely rely on it more as it becomes LVL 3 & 4-just don't take away my steering wheel, because I still like to drive those curvy roads.
I think I understood majority of what you clarified even from the original video (about the lane assist and ACC), the Tesla part about transfer of ownership is quite important to form the relevant opinion though. Thanks for the update, really appreciated.
FANTASTIC video! I couldn't agree more that these systems are cost prohibitive on vehicles that are already cost prohibitive to purchase. I do understand and agree with paying for nice-to-haves like park assist, summon, point-to-point on surface streets (FSD Beta), but paying either a subscription or paying up to $15k for them is ludicrous! If I don't want to drive, $15k is a LOT of Ubers. Personally, I think Tesla's inclusion of basic autopilot is a great move. I do think that lane changes and stopping for stoplights should be part of the standard package, though. And, for 99% of people out there, this is all they will ever need or want. For the infinitesimally small percentage of the population who can justify paying for more, more power to em
Deja Vu!! Oh... Prefix. Clarification and corrections are always good. Appreciate it, no one else seems to bother, so it's awesome that your do... But IDK why people think they need to be angry about it.
Nicely done Nikki, you're right, of course you're only human. You can only speak what you believe to be the truth after all your research. Very few youtubers would go to the trouble to make such an eloquent retraction and correction. Beautifully done, much respect. 👍👏 Family stuff meant i didnt have the time to come back and check the comments this time so i hope everyone was kind in their helpful comments. I know they really seem to have been ok so far. Got to go before finishing re-watching, sorry. 🙏
IMO these companies should be dinged by the NHTSA for any features like this that arent just included in the price of the vehicle. If we had to pay a subscription fee to use airbags, how many people would pay it? Heck, if there was an extra charge for airbags when you first buy a car, how many people would option them? I dont think these features should be counted towards safety scores at all unless they are just built in and free to use. Period. They shouldnt be allowed to have it both ways... to get a high safety score based on a feature that isnt just standard.
Airbags are mandatory, so it's a bad example. Before accusing brands to enable features to get a high safety score and then put it behind a subscription, you first have to make sure they do (did). For instance, Tesla's FSD and Enhanced Autopilot is not included when tested for safety. Auto pilot is included and is a standard feature of the car and will never be part of a subscription. Safety scores can take this into account. Better is: - AutoPilot get updates so the safety score gets better than when you bought the car. - Airbag software get updates so their order of "explosion" depends on the kind of accident. - Etc
Wright’s law applies. The more times a task is performed,the less time is required for subsequent iterations. The effect on market share and costs is significant.
I missed the original video anyway Nikki, so don't worry about it. Interesting to know some facts not that I own a Tesla and FSD doesn't yet exist outside of North America and Ford only just launched the Mach-E in my country first deliveries in about 6 months.
Tesla (and other car makers) change the small print every now and then, when it suits them. It's not surprising that when you try to cover something so new and complex that some of the small print gets lots in translation I've had my Tesla for just over 5 years I ordered it nearly 6 years ago, with just basic cruise control (NOT traffic aware, NO lane keeping) I've seen that what you get with AP and EAP and FSD has changed a number of times over the years. I paid for FSD around the cars 1st birthday, and I'm still waiting, so I think I've got EAP and I got free supercharging for as long as I own the car I used the referal code of someone else who had free supercharging on their (used) car, which they bought direct from Tesla, but if you buy from Tesla now, they strip the free supercharging. If you buy privately, the supercharging stays with the car or at least, that is my understanding of what happens this week, but who knows what they will decide tomorrow?
I think you are incorrect. The small print does not change. In the past, with free supercharging, it was printed quite clear. Removing this clear tekst does exactly what you expect, it removes this feature on new cars. No small prints involved.
@nettlesoup replied to my comment but my comment disappeared! So here it goes: About the ILEGALITY of such "subscription" when no service and no content are being provided, but just to keep a paid-for-product's feature enabled. It doesn't matter that a certain clause in a contract clearly stablishes something outright ilegal; just laying it in a contract doesn't turn an ilegal practice into legal - specially with contracts of ADHESION. Charging a "subscription" for the mere use of certain features that came fully installed, from the start, within the product for which the consumer paid in full... that's illegitimate gain and ILEGAL in most jurisdictions. I don't understand the JOKE that consumer protection became in the US in this 21st century. US consumer policies used to be the reference, worldwide. Now it's a joke. Cheers!
I guess it will also be interesting to cover what base functionality Ford owners will get if they refuse to pay $800/yr ($75/mo). According to the Ford website, without Blue Cruise the basic Lane Keeping System only warns when you are veering out of the lane; it doesn't steer for you. *Edit to clarify:* the system does not control the steering to smoothly drive in the centre of the lane *but* it can apply steering torque to direct you back to the centre of the lane. So more of a way to detect and react to driver inattention than a driver assist technology. *More info on Ford's UK site:* Apparently the Lane-Keeping System "is designed for multi-lane roads (like motorways), so will automatically deactivate at speeds below 43mph ..."? 🤔
Making some features such as heated seats or performance enhancements subscription based is quite cynical and hopefully customers will vote with their feet. However, when it comes to technology that is continually being improved then it is understandable why they are subscription based. It could be argued that only the upgrades are chargeable, but when it comes to autonomous driving it is in everyone's benefit, those that have the system installed, and other drivers who share the road, that the best version of the system is installed. There are therefore two categories of features, those that are simply turned on and off and should just have a one off price, and those that are continually updated and so the subscription is contributing to the ongoing development.
I honestly feel the opposite. Subscription makes sense for a fluff feature that not everyone will want. Android Auto or Apple Carplay? Doubtful most people will need both. It makes less sense for a feature that is supposedly an important safety feature. Either this is critical for safety or its a toy. If its not critical for safety and isnt just a standard feature, then the NHTSA shouldnt be including it in their safety scoring.
@@patreekotime4578 No, the fluff feature is part of the original sale price, "extras" have always been optional. If you want heated seat, tick the box and pay a one off price for the feature. It is a feature that will never be improved. Self-driving, (which is trying to be level 5, rather than one that is correctly labelled as driver assist) is usually a software update, and so each year improvements should be made available, it therefore makes sense that people are signing up for regular upgrades.
Manufacturers like Ford are beginning to encrypt the data sent between components; they state it’s for security, but it also has the convenient side effect of blocking Comma devices from connecting to the vehicle, side stepping the issue of losing subscription revenue to open source software.
Odd people would be angry about not being 100% right about the transferability of FSD/EAP. Tesla isn't very transparent. Just as an FYI, FSD/EAP would not be transferable via a Tesla lease as Tesla leases (currently) do not allow the purchasing of the vehicle at the end of the lease. (Per their terms.) As for Tesla Finance (i.e., loan) I believe Tesla is merely a middle person between the borrower and a bank; they do not carry the note. I would be surprised if they have an ability to influence the disposition of FSD/EAP on a "Tesla loan" versus a purchaser bringing in their own bank/credit union.
Most ‘semiautonomous options’ are just fancy cruise control. Tesla can actually take you door to door with FSD. And the advanced cruise control is standard,
Forced Hands on Wheel .. is self driving?? .. and good luck going door to door without killing someone, yes keep your hands on the wheel as Tesla demands, because their system ain't safe othewise.
@@KrustyKlown You're right. It's a beta which is still not fool prove. But it's getting there. If I would pay $15.000,- for it? Not yet. Will I ever pay for it? Probably I will.
@@jamesphillips2285 If mankind with only two eyes can manage driving (with a terrible reaction speed), why would a dedicated computer with dedicated AI not be able to drive a car savely? The full self driving suite requires 8 cameras, 3 camera's are forward facing camera's behind the windshield, so not only one. Seeing the current state of FSD, they are doing quite well, sometimes small steps back, but often large steps forward (it's like learning to drive a bicycle).
I recently rented a kona, set the cruise control, and found myself fighting the car. Thought the car was defective so I returned it and got another. Nope, it is just the way it works. I didn't like it... Pretty sure the Hertz lady hates me at this point. This is a personal preference, maybe with more time I would have gotten used to it
NOT A CON? Whilst I can't speak to Ford or GM"s systems, I know that there is ongoing costs to Tesla in operating FSD from mobile phone network charges to continuous AI training, AI staff, power, and continuous software development. Therefore it does seem reasonable that a service fee exists for the service that is actually being provided. Whether a particular driving feature in each brand does incur enough overhead to justify a service charge, I don't know. I do question whether the Ford & GM products (L2 evolving towards L3) are value comparable to Tesla's (L2 nearly L5)
I still need clarification about if my currently included Blue Cruise is going to change into a subscription... I think it should be included for life per the terms at the time? Super not looking into needing to pay for it.
Hey Nikki, are y'all going to report on the NHTSA saying that pedestrian safety for massive vehicles (like Ford Lightning) are not going to get a typical 5-star rating but instead are going to be laundered into a separate pass/fail test? This is folding massively to the auto industry and will result in thousands killed.
Hey I was the guy that was "technically correct" the best kind of correct about nacs, and it seems that Ford is going to give the possibility of using nacs because is open, after all somebody is trusting Tesla, mind you not elon, but Tesla yes! and tey are sharing even the protocol, it seems, please make a doom and gloom video about it, I'm living in Europe so for me this is just entertainment, but i like the drama,and i do not know which one of you will be the best on such a topic, but just imagine the possibility of double dealing, incredible twists, that will mesmerize Ford into adapting a standard that will drain it's ingenuity and then Tesla will take control of ford... Sorry just watched the little mermaid and just reminiscing Ursula and Ariel and the struggle for power and love Btw the topic is interesting, I'll go watch again that video
For something that gets updated often (at least they should be) and isn't a necessary safety feature like blue cruise I don't mind it being a sub. That being said I think 75 bucks a month is too much.
I / WE Want to know just "WHY" FORD has Decided to OTA Updates of the 1.2 ONLY to the 2023 MACH E's. (So I been TOLD by FORD Cust Service), Our 2022 F-150 has all these Blue Cruise Whistle's and Bell's that we Paid $1995.00 for three Years of Usage/Service. So why Do we Not get the 1.2 Update's on our 2022 F-150 That we Already Paid For??? Not Right!!! And you're RIGHT, If I/We can't get the 1.2 Update on our 2022 F-150, FORD Can go Pound Sand Down a Rat Hole!!! We Ain't PAYING for Getting NOTHING NEW!!!
If a car company wants to charge you for ANY subscription service (that's not radio) DON'T BUY THE CAR. Subscription's are the biggest scam ever. They should be illegal.
It should be illegal to lockdown things where the hardware is already included. Like heated seats/steering wheels. Or at the very least there should be third party options to enable those features outside of the OEM.
Your computer is able to do so much more, but still you have to buy the software to do so. Same here. It is software which drives the car by itself and with each upgrade it gets better and better. Tesla is not delivering the enhanced auto pilot or FSD standard with the car, so only when purchased and installed, you get the functionality. Safety features however (like timing of the airbags depending on the type of accident (front, rear, side, etc)) are updated freely and requires no fee. You get a better car with each software update. With a lot of cars you exactly get what you pay for, even if it is already installed. If you don't tick the box, it is not included. And, if you want it afterwards, you can tick the box and even without going the the dealer, it will automatically work (maybe not with all brands). It often is cheaper to install things in every car, than leaving it out in some and installing it in others.
@@BendeVette It's not software that turns off and on seat heaters. Or steering wheel heaters. Or back massagers. Or all the other little bits that come as fictional options. The reality is they're already in the car. "It often is cheaper to install things in every car, than leaving it out in some and installing it in others." Yes, they fleece you going and and going out. They save money on labor, meaning their workers get paid less. The car is just as expensive for the purchaser. And it uses just as many resources, isn't it a waste to install those seat heaters and other features without having them be usable? Finally it's just plain scummy. The computer analogy doesn't work because there is no competition. If I don't like Word I can go get LibreOffice or other options. I can run Windows or Kali on the same hardware. If I want my seat heaters to work I can only go to the OEM. What happens when the OEM goes under? If Musk runs Tesla into the ground will that brick all their cars? I doubt it, but there will likely be some features that break. Why are you protecting corporate profits?
@@Jcewazhere To be honest, it is software that turns on your seat and steering wheel heaters. "They save money on labor, meaning their workers get paid less" You have this wrong. They save money on labor, meaning they need less workers. So no, they are not paying them less. "The car is just as expensive for the purchaser" No, the car, with less features, is cheaper than the car with those features. When you want to enable them in the future, it becomes more expensive. "And it uses just as many resources" You are totally right about this one, it's a shame, it really is. "Finally it's just plain scummy" No, it is not. It is cheaper to produce, so it is logical to do it like this. "The computer analogy doesn't work" Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but seeing that you can install something like "Open PIlot" says the analogy works quite well "I can only go to the OEM. What happens when the OEM goes under?" You are right on this one, but when did that happen for the last time? So you are looking for a problem which almost doesn't exist in the real world. "If Musk runs Tesla into the ground will that brick all their cars" Why would Musk do that? Looking at Tesla's sales, it is the opposite of what you are afraid of And why would "not getting updates" brick a car? You can even disable updates or choose not to update your Tesla. Not a problem "but there will likely be some features that break. " Why would a feature break when the software doesn't get an update? The software does not change, so features do not change "Why are you protecting corporate profits" Where did I protect corporate profits exactly? I am looking at this from a logical point of view, not an emotional.
Two reasons why people will choose to pay for autopilot subscriptions from their vehicle's manufacturer over cheaper 3rd party solutions: warranty and insurance. Modifying a car without authorization of the manufacturer voids the warranty, and who knows what implications it might have on insurance. For example, if the OpenSource autopilot malfunctions, and that malfunction contributes to an accident, would your insurance company pay, or could you be liable for the full cost of the medical bills of whoever you hit out of your own pocket? By contrast, when you use the system that the company who made your car officially supports, you know that your warranty is still good, and you know that your insurance is still good. For many people, that peace of mind is worth paying extra for. Should also mention that I am quite surprised that these types of open source driver assistance systems are even possible to begin with, that the car companies haven't actively locked down their software to prevent it. And, even if they haven't locked down their software *yet*, this is something they could start doing anytime. If your car is a Tesla, they could even do it via an over-the-air update, causing the OpenSource autopilot you paid $1,500 for to suddenly stop working. Telsa's actual FSD, on the other hand, will not just suddenly stop working absent a compelling safety reason.
Yes the ford adaptive cruise control with Lane centering is as you said essentially autopilot. As somebody who is buying an F150 soon, I will be fascinated to see how I feel about one over the other. I really like base auto pilot.
It does seem to be a Blue Cruise paid feature though, so after the three year trial, do they bump you back to Ford Co-Pilot 360°? That comes with basic Lane-Keeping System, which only has the capability to alert and/or apply corrective steering if you drift over to the side of the lane.
I dont think that many people will want to pay much for subscription services, they think they are paying too much for the car already. If everybody holds off these bandit demands their business model will fold. These are currently gimmicks that most people do not find effective anyway and have done without.
Musk has sold his soul to gain conservative buyers. The "save the planet" green deal dude who planned to build a communist colony on Mars.. has gone FULL RIGHT WING WACKO to sell more vehicles. That will backfire!!
The Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution to the EPA to rollback the stricter emission rules for heavy duty trucks beyond 2027. This maybe the beginning of the end to the stricter EPA emission guidelines should the the Republicans win the presidential elections next year.
All SD options become moot when embodied AI gets out there. Then the AI robot that cleans your floors and burns your toast will be the navigator and driver of your car. 🤖🤖
Don't feel bad for criticizing Tesla FSD. The pricing is bend you over stupid. I'm generally a fan of Tesla, but I don't think anyone should buy FSD at it's current price, even if it was fully functional.
Several problems I found here in my opinion. - making a mistake in comparing Tesla FSD, FSD beta to Ford or GMs systems which are in the capability category in league with Tesla's autopilot (so not FSD beta) - even if all of them are SAE LVL 2, and bc of that you also make a mistake in terms of pricing on which you complained isn't free or better priced. If we took those systems which are in the same league so: Ford BlueCruise, GM Supercruise, and Tesla Autopilot which contains many safety features - Teslas Autopilot is free. Comparing those non-Tesla systems in terms of capability to Tesla FSD beta is a joke and a bad one. - saying that in your opinion even many advanced features in ADASystems are practically safety features so shouldn't be paid for or at least not that much, is wrong bc that way we can argue that every feature in ADAS is a safe feature bc it reduces drivers fatigue, etc. By this logic, if ever there will be a full SAE LVL 5 autonomous system then it would also fall into that category bc it also reduces the driver's fatigue, etc.(to zero - obviously) so shouldn't cost that much also right? - Although now I might understand how you meant it and that is that you maybe meant this argument only if the driver still has to supervise (so max LVL 2). If so then this (my) point is invalid. - Argument that ADAS shouldn't cost that much (safety feature or not) bc people can't afford it isn't the way how things are priced. Things are priced by how much the feature carmaker cost at the minimum so hypothetically if even that amount without any profit is still higher than people could afford then you can't expect the feature to cost less. That's not how things work.
Probably not such a smart move: After the first five minutes most people, who have already seen the rest of this 25 minutes long video, won't watch it for a second time. That will make the YT-algo think this is bad content...
@@dreamburn1 Yes, props for owning up to mistakes made and it's awfully nice of you to courageously watcht the whole thing again ;-) Yet a 5minuste mea-culpa-video pointing to the edited version of the original video would have been the clever way to go.
Capitalism in this country sucks since we don’t have a government that responds to people's needs, like car safety, except for corporate interests and wealthy people. Also, it is should be noted our Congress are the best stock traders in the world because they control the laws and profit off of their decisions. Also, since we’re talking about cars that are deadly devices when accidents happen, subscription service is total BS for safety features which are a social good for everyone.
I’m very impressed with your edits. Many other RUclips channels don’t bother to correct errors and make clarifications. Thanks for taking the time. In addition, I found the introductory edit to be a very succinct comparison of the Tesla, Ford and Cruise offerings. Good work!
I can only sit here in awe of your thoroughness and integrity. Mahalo for this clarification.
The level of integrity of the TE team is a rare thing these days.
It keeps you coming back, this professionalism and integrity.
Really respect and appreciate the genuine and thorough correction. Thank you Nikki and TE Team!
I work for a software company that sells software as a service for a re-occurring fee. IMO, if the company is doing real time updates and improvements to the car after the purchase then a subscription model makes sense. If they are charging for something like heated seats then I think it is ridiculous.
I think BMW expect the mugs who buy them to be grateful they dont charge subscription for the power steering, abs etc.
@@markplott4820all in all, to sum it up, below the summary line, you want to keep people away from Tesla by making their cars more expensive to own.
Props to the people that posted good comments on the original video. Props to the TE Team for posting this update.
I've never been a fan of subscriptions, so the slow move by corporations toward subscriptions is saving me money since I won't purchase those and I find I need those items less than I thought.
Having watched a large number of your videos as a subscriber I am not in the least surprised at this thorough display of honesty and integrity.
Thanks for the correction of a minor speed bump on your lengthy highway of sterling and well researched information.
Yes, we are all human and may it ever be so.
Cheers from Ottawa, ON
Such excellent coverage of Open Pilot (OPGM) and Comma driver assist systems.
I too don't believe in monthly software subscriptions for hardware that was purchased. Might consider if subscription period was 3-5 years long. The problem with subscription models is they need to deliver supplemental value with each renewal period. In the context of a print material like magazines, newspapers, this meant new content delivery. The same is true today of cable TV, or streaming media services. They delivering new content each subscription period.
A subscription that doesn't deliver new content (features) is just a lease, or membership, which has a much lower value proposition. More like a gym membership, which may only be used seasonally.
I really like your take on autonomous driving and subscriptions. I’m with you on all of what I saw in this video. Well done and thank you. ☕️
Good corrections, good video, keep up the hard work.
Love you all. 1 minor error in the edited post, though hopefully not too big an issue. With advance autopilot or FSD, it's not either or there can be co-operation. You can request either version changes lanes simply by putting the blinker on. It'll make turns by itself, no need to handle the wheel during turns our line changes, unless the car requests it to make sure you're paying attention.
This is incorrect and libelous. Cease and desist immediately.
@@markplott4820 "UNEDUTATED"
I am very impressed with the integrity, grace, and professionalism of this channel, and the willingness to update with more accurate information. Thanks for understanding that we (sometimes irascible) viewers are human as well. I appreciate your channel and your entire team, and what you stand for.
I think these autonomous driving features will make the roads safer and save lives. I understand having to pay a lot for the development of these features in these early times-and I appreciate witnessing the evolution of the technology first-hand. When I bought FSD it was $7k, and now it's more than double that. I wish I had a choice to either sell the feature with the car or transfer it to a newer vehicle I purchase. I think I'd be much more likely to buy a newer Tesla sooner if I could take FSD with me when I do. I appreciate that Tesla and others include some basic autonomous driving functionality as standard, yet offer more advanced features for a cost. Perhaps, when the technology is fully developed, the cost for the advanced features will come down.
I didn't think I'd use autonomous features as much as I actually do-and will likely rely on it more as it becomes LVL 3 & 4-just don't take away my steering wheel, because I still like to drive those curvy roads.
I think I understood majority of what you clarified even from the original video (about the lane assist and ACC), the Tesla part about transfer of ownership is quite important to form the relevant opinion though. Thanks for the update, really appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to make the editorial corrections!
Thank you as always for your integrity and all of the great videos that you and your team create.
FANTASTIC video! I couldn't agree more that these systems are cost prohibitive on vehicles that are already cost prohibitive to purchase. I do understand and agree with paying for nice-to-haves like park assist, summon, point-to-point on surface streets (FSD Beta), but paying either a subscription or paying up to $15k for them is ludicrous! If I don't want to drive, $15k is a LOT of Ubers. Personally, I think Tesla's inclusion of basic autopilot is a great move. I do think that lane changes and stopping for stoplights should be part of the standard package, though. And, for 99% of people out there, this is all they will ever need or want. For the infinitesimally small percentage of the population who can justify paying for more, more power to em
Deja Vu!! Oh... Prefix. Clarification and corrections are always good. Appreciate it, no one else seems to bother, so it's awesome that your do...
But IDK why people think they need to be angry about it.
Nicely done Nikki, you're right, of course you're only human. You can only speak what you believe to be the truth after all your research. Very few youtubers would go to the trouble to make such an eloquent retraction and correction. Beautifully done, much respect. 👍👏
Family stuff meant i didnt have the time to come back and check the comments this time so i hope everyone was kind in their helpful comments. I know they really seem to have been ok so far. Got to go before finishing re-watching, sorry. 🙏
Thank you Nikki
140,000 miles with OP in control, cannot sing its praises enough. Also sunny is a great human who has really pushed the system ahead
Appreciate the correction! It shows a high level of integrity on your channel 😊
IMO these companies should be dinged by the NHTSA for any features like this that arent just included in the price of the vehicle. If we had to pay a subscription fee to use airbags, how many people would pay it? Heck, if there was an extra charge for airbags when you first buy a car, how many people would option them? I dont think these features should be counted towards safety scores at all unless they are just built in and free to use. Period. They shouldnt be allowed to have it both ways... to get a high safety score based on a feature that isnt just standard.
Airbags are mandatory, so it's a bad example.
Before accusing brands to enable features to get a high safety score and then put it behind a subscription, you first have to make sure they do (did).
For instance, Tesla's FSD and Enhanced Autopilot is not included when tested for safety.
Auto pilot is included and is a standard feature of the car and will never be part of a subscription. Safety scores can take this into account.
Better is:
- AutoPilot get updates so the safety score gets better than when you bought the car.
- Airbag software get updates so their order of "explosion" depends on the kind of accident.
- Etc
Thanks for the clarification, Nikki. I'll take my Comma 3 over any of the factory options.
Wright’s law applies. The more times a task is performed,the less time is required for subsequent iterations. The effect on market share and costs is significant.
I missed the original video anyway Nikki, so don't worry about it. Interesting to know some facts not that I own a Tesla and FSD doesn't yet exist outside of North America and Ford only just launched the Mach-E in my country first deliveries in about 6 months.
Tesla (and other car makers) change the small print every now and then, when it suits them. It's not surprising that when you try to cover something so new and complex that some of the small print gets lots in translation
I've had my Tesla for just over 5 years
I ordered it nearly 6 years ago, with just basic cruise control (NOT traffic aware, NO lane keeping)
I've seen that what you get with AP and EAP and FSD has changed a number of times over the years.
I paid for FSD around the cars 1st birthday, and I'm still waiting, so I think I've got EAP
and I got free supercharging for as long as I own the car
I used the referal code of someone else who had free supercharging on their (used) car, which they bought direct from Tesla, but if you buy from Tesla now, they strip the free supercharging.
If you buy privately, the supercharging stays with the car
or at least, that is my understanding of what happens this week, but who knows what they will decide tomorrow?
I think you are incorrect.
The small print does not change.
In the past, with free supercharging, it was printed quite clear.
Removing this clear tekst does exactly what you expect, it removes this feature on new cars.
No small prints involved.
It seems like the price is commensurate with capability. None of these systems are even in Teslas universe tbh.
@nettlesoup replied to my comment but my comment disappeared! So here it goes:
About the ILEGALITY of such "subscription" when no service and no content are being provided, but just to keep a paid-for-product's feature enabled.
It doesn't matter that a certain clause in a contract clearly stablishes something outright ilegal; just laying it in a contract doesn't turn an ilegal practice into legal - specially with contracts of ADHESION.
Charging a "subscription" for the mere use of certain features that came fully installed, from the start, within the product for which the consumer paid in full... that's illegitimate gain and ILEGAL in most jurisdictions.
I don't understand the JOKE that consumer protection became in the US in this 21st century. US consumer policies used to be the reference, worldwide. Now it's a joke.
Cheers!
Love he ‘Words are Hard’ t-shirt. Perfect for a correction video!
I guess it will also be interesting to cover what base functionality Ford owners will get if they refuse to pay $800/yr ($75/mo). According to the Ford website, without Blue Cruise the basic Lane Keeping System only warns when you are veering out of the lane; it doesn't steer for you.
*Edit to clarify:* the system does not control the steering to smoothly drive in the centre of the lane *but* it can apply steering torque to direct you back to the centre of the lane. So more of a way to detect and react to driver inattention than a driver assist technology.
*More info on Ford's UK site:* Apparently the Lane-Keeping System "is designed for multi-lane roads (like motorways), so will automatically deactivate at speeds below 43mph ..."? 🤔
Making some features such as heated seats or performance enhancements subscription based is quite cynical and hopefully customers will vote with their feet. However, when it comes to technology that is continually being improved then it is understandable why they are subscription based. It could be argued that only the upgrades are chargeable, but when it comes to autonomous driving it is in everyone's benefit, those that have the system installed, and other drivers who share the road, that the best version of the system is installed.
There are therefore two categories of features, those that are simply turned on and off and should just have a one off price, and those that are continually updated and so the subscription is contributing to the ongoing development.
I honestly feel the opposite. Subscription makes sense for a fluff feature that not everyone will want. Android Auto or Apple Carplay? Doubtful most people will need both. It makes less sense for a feature that is supposedly an important safety feature. Either this is critical for safety or its a toy. If its not critical for safety and isnt just a standard feature, then the NHTSA shouldnt be including it in their safety scoring.
@@patreekotime4578 No, the fluff feature is part of the original sale price, "extras" have always been optional. If you want heated seat, tick the box and pay a one off price for the feature. It is a feature that will never be improved. Self-driving, (which is trying to be level 5, rather than one that is correctly labelled as driver assist) is usually a software update, and so each year improvements should be made available, it therefore makes sense that people are signing up for regular upgrades.
Manufacturers like Ford are beginning to encrypt the data sent between components; they state it’s for security, but it also has the convenient side effect of blocking Comma devices from connecting to the vehicle, side stepping the issue of losing subscription revenue to open source software.
"HANDS FREE" !!! .. funny how Musk convinced people that "Hands-On" is something they can sell for $15K.
Where in the text of FSD Beta it is mentioned it's a HANDS FREE feature?
Can you please point out where to find it?
Thanks in advance.
Odd people would be angry about not being 100% right about the transferability of FSD/EAP. Tesla isn't very transparent. Just as an FYI, FSD/EAP would not be transferable via a Tesla lease as Tesla leases (currently) do not allow the purchasing of the vehicle at the end of the lease. (Per their terms.) As for Tesla Finance (i.e., loan) I believe Tesla is merely a middle person between the borrower and a bank; they do not carry the note. I would be surprised if they have an ability to influence the disposition of FSD/EAP on a "Tesla loan" versus a purchaser bringing in their own bank/credit union.
Most ‘semiautonomous options’ are just fancy cruise control. Tesla can actually take you door to door with FSD. And the advanced cruise control is standard,
Forced Hands on Wheel .. is self driving?? .. and good luck going door to door without killing someone, yes keep your hands on the wheel as Tesla demands, because their system ain't safe othewise.
@@KrustyKlown
You're right.
It's a beta which is still not fool prove. But it's getting there.
If I would pay $15.000,- for it?
Not yet.
Will I ever pay for it?
Probably I will.
@@BendeVette They have removed radar and ultrasonic sensors. They only use monocular vision. I suspect FSD is going to be level 2 for a long time.
@@jamesphillips2285
If mankind with only two eyes can manage driving (with a terrible reaction speed), why would a dedicated computer with dedicated AI not be able to drive a car savely? The full self driving suite requires 8 cameras, 3 camera's are forward facing camera's behind the windshield, so not only one.
Seeing the current state of FSD, they are doing quite well, sometimes small steps back, but often large steps forward (it's like learning to drive a bicycle).
I recently rented a kona, set the cruise control, and found myself fighting the car. Thought the car was defective so I returned it and got another. Nope, it is just the way it works. I didn't like it...
Pretty sure the Hertz lady hates me at this point.
This is a personal preference, maybe with more time I would have gotten used to it
NOT A CON?
Whilst I can't speak to Ford or GM"s systems, I know that there is ongoing costs to Tesla in operating FSD from mobile phone network charges to continuous AI training, AI staff, power, and continuous software development. Therefore it does seem reasonable that a service fee exists for the service that is actually being provided.
Whether a particular driving feature in each brand does incur enough overhead to justify a service charge, I don't know. I do question whether the Ford & GM products (L2 evolving towards L3) are value comparable to Tesla's (L2 nearly L5)
I still need clarification about if my currently included Blue Cruise is going to change into a subscription...
I think it should be included for life per the terms at the time? Super not looking into needing to pay for it.
As far as we know, it’ll default to paid subscription on the date when it says in your Ford Pass portal. - Nikki
@@transportevolved found it. Under connected services... Looks like my free trial expires after 3 years... Sigh.
Hey Nikki, are y'all going to report on the NHTSA saying that pedestrian safety for massive vehicles (like Ford Lightning) are not going to get a typical 5-star rating but instead are going to be laundered into a separate pass/fail test? This is folding massively to the auto industry and will result in thousands killed.
Hey I was the guy that was "technically correct" the best kind of correct about nacs, and it seems that Ford is going to give the possibility of using nacs because is open, after all somebody is trusting Tesla, mind you not elon, but Tesla yes! and tey are sharing even the protocol, it seems, please make a doom and gloom video about it, I'm living in Europe so for me this is just entertainment, but i like the drama,and i do not know which one of you will be the best on such a topic, but just imagine the possibility of double dealing, incredible twists, that will mesmerize Ford into adapting a standard that will drain it's ingenuity and then Tesla will take control of ford...
Sorry just watched the little mermaid and just reminiscing Ursula and Ariel and the struggle for power and love
Btw the topic is interesting, I'll go watch again that video
For something that gets updated often (at least they should be) and isn't a necessary safety feature like blue cruise I don't mind it being a sub. That being said I think 75 bucks a month is too much.
Thank you
The video was cut abrutply at the end?
Gah - thanks for letting us know. For some reason, the re-edited video didn't take the new ending into account. We're sorry -nikki.
@@transportevolved When it rains it pours I guess!
I / WE Want to know just "WHY" FORD has Decided to OTA Updates of the 1.2 ONLY to the 2023 MACH E's. (So I been TOLD by FORD Cust Service), Our 2022 F-150 has all these Blue Cruise Whistle's and Bell's that we Paid $1995.00 for three Years of Usage/Service. So why Do we Not get the 1.2 Update's on our 2022 F-150 That we Already Paid For??? Not Right!!! And you're RIGHT, If I/We can't get the 1.2 Update on our 2022 F-150, FORD Can go Pound Sand Down a Rat Hole!!! We Ain't PAYING for Getting NOTHING NEW!!!
If a car company wants to charge you for ANY subscription service (that's not radio) DON'T BUY THE CAR. Subscription's are the biggest scam ever. They should be illegal.
It should be illegal to lockdown things where the hardware is already included. Like heated seats/steering wheels.
Or at the very least there should be third party options to enable those features outside of the OEM.
Your computer is able to do so much more, but still you have to buy the software to do so.
Same here.
It is software which drives the car by itself and with each upgrade it gets better and better.
Tesla is not delivering the enhanced auto pilot or FSD standard with the car, so only when purchased and installed, you get the functionality.
Safety features however (like timing of the airbags depending on the type of accident (front, rear, side, etc)) are updated freely and requires no fee.
You get a better car with each software update.
With a lot of cars you exactly get what you pay for, even if it is already installed. If you don't tick the box, it is not included.
And, if you want it afterwards, you can tick the box and even without going the the dealer, it will automatically work (maybe not with all brands).
It often is cheaper to install things in every car, than leaving it out in some and installing it in others.
@@BendeVette It's not software that turns off and on seat heaters. Or steering wheel heaters. Or back massagers. Or all the other little bits that come as fictional options. The reality is they're already in the car.
"It often is cheaper to install things in every car, than leaving it out in some and installing it in others." Yes, they fleece you going and and going out. They save money on labor, meaning their workers get paid less. The car is just as expensive for the purchaser. And it uses just as many resources, isn't it a waste to install those seat heaters and other features without having them be usable? Finally it's just plain scummy.
The computer analogy doesn't work because there is no competition. If I don't like Word I can go get LibreOffice or other options. I can run Windows or Kali on the same hardware. If I want my seat heaters to work I can only go to the OEM. What happens when the OEM goes under? If Musk runs Tesla into the ground will that brick all their cars? I doubt it, but there will likely be some features that break.
Why are you protecting corporate profits?
@@Jcewazhere
To be honest, it is software that turns on your seat and steering wheel heaters.
"They save money on labor, meaning their workers get paid less"
You have this wrong.
They save money on labor, meaning they need less workers. So no, they are not paying them less.
"The car is just as expensive for the purchaser"
No, the car, with less features, is cheaper than the car with those features.
When you want to enable them in the future, it becomes more expensive.
"And it uses just as many resources"
You are totally right about this one, it's a shame, it really is.
"Finally it's just plain scummy"
No, it is not. It is cheaper to produce, so it is logical to do it like this.
"The computer analogy doesn't work"
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but seeing that you can install something like "Open PIlot" says the analogy works quite well
"I can only go to the OEM. What happens when the OEM goes under?"
You are right on this one, but when did that happen for the last time?
So you are looking for a problem which almost doesn't exist in the real world.
"If Musk runs Tesla into the ground will that brick all their cars"
Why would Musk do that?
Looking at Tesla's sales, it is the opposite of what you are afraid of
And why would "not getting updates" brick a car?
You can even disable updates or choose not to update your Tesla.
Not a problem
"but there will likely be some features that break. "
Why would a feature break when the software doesn't get an update?
The software does not change, so features do not change
"Why are you protecting corporate profits"
Where did I protect corporate profits exactly?
I am looking at this from a logical point of view, not an emotional.
Two reasons why people will choose to pay for autopilot subscriptions from their vehicle's manufacturer over cheaper 3rd party solutions: warranty and insurance. Modifying a car without authorization of the manufacturer voids the warranty, and who knows what implications it might have on insurance. For example, if the OpenSource autopilot malfunctions, and that malfunction contributes to an accident, would your insurance company pay, or could you be liable for the full cost of the medical bills of whoever you hit out of your own pocket? By contrast, when you use the system that the company who made your car officially supports, you know that your warranty is still good, and you know that your insurance is still good. For many people, that peace of mind is worth paying extra for.
Should also mention that I am quite surprised that these types of open source driver assistance systems are even possible to begin with, that the car companies haven't actively locked down their software to prevent it. And, even if they haven't locked down their software *yet*, this is something they could start doing anytime. If your car is a Tesla, they could even do it via an over-the-air update, causing the OpenSource autopilot you paid $1,500 for to suddenly stop working. Telsa's actual FSD, on the other hand, will not just suddenly stop working absent a compelling safety reason.
Yes the ford adaptive cruise control with Lane centering is as you said essentially autopilot. As somebody who is buying an F150 soon, I will be fascinated to see how I feel about one over the other. I really like base auto pilot.
It does seem to be a Blue Cruise paid feature though, so after the three year trial, do they bump you back to Ford Co-Pilot 360°? That comes with basic Lane-Keeping System, which only has the capability to alert and/or apply corrective steering if you drift over to the side of the lane.
I dont think that many people will want to pay much for subscription services, they think they are paying too much for the car already. If everybody holds off these bandit demands their business model will fold. These are currently gimmicks that most people do not find effective anyway and have done without.
Elon is no longer a person I want to be associated with
A cohort that I think will only continue to expand.
He has correctly determined it is far easier to get cult followers by taking over other cults. That tends to repulse none cult members.
Musk has sold his soul to gain conservative buyers. The "save the planet" green deal dude who planned to build a communist colony on Mars.. has gone FULL RIGHT WING WACKO to sell more vehicles. That will backfire!!
Good to know.
But why are you writing this?
This video is about software and subscription fees.
It is now called Eloon
The Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution to the EPA to rollback the stricter emission rules for heavy duty trucks beyond 2027. This maybe the beginning of the end to the stricter EPA emission guidelines should the the Republicans win the presidential elections next year.
i'm first !!!!!!!!!! Much LOVE!
i agree!
Not sure I'd trust any of them on the roads in Shropshire... As for subscribing for it... nope.
All SD options become moot when embodied AI gets out there. Then the AI robot that cleans your floors and burns your toast will be the navigator and driver of your car. 🤖🤖
Don't feel bad for criticizing Tesla FSD. The pricing is bend you over stupid. I'm generally a fan of Tesla, but I don't think anyone should buy FSD at it's current price, even if it was fully functional.
Several problems I found here in my opinion.
- making a mistake in comparing Tesla FSD, FSD beta to Ford or GMs systems which are in the capability category in league with Tesla's autopilot (so not FSD beta) - even if all of them are SAE LVL 2, and bc of that you also make a mistake in terms of pricing on which you complained isn't free or better priced. If we took those systems which are in the same league so: Ford BlueCruise, GM Supercruise, and Tesla Autopilot which contains many safety features - Teslas Autopilot is free. Comparing those non-Tesla systems in terms of capability to Tesla FSD beta is a joke and a bad one.
- saying that in your opinion even many advanced features in ADASystems are practically safety features so shouldn't be paid for or at least not that much, is wrong bc that way we can argue that every feature in ADAS is a safe feature bc it reduces drivers fatigue, etc. By this logic, if ever there will be a full SAE LVL 5 autonomous system then it would also fall into that category bc it also reduces the driver's fatigue, etc.(to zero - obviously) so shouldn't cost that much also right? - Although now I might understand how you meant it and that is that you maybe meant this argument only if the driver still has to supervise (so max LVL 2). If so then this (my) point is invalid.
- Argument that ADAS shouldn't cost that much (safety feature or not) bc people can't afford it isn't the way how things are priced. Things are priced by how much the feature carmaker cost at the minimum so hypothetically if even that amount without any profit is still higher than people could afford then you can't expect the feature to cost less. That's not how things work.
Probably not such a smart move: After the first five minutes most people, who have already seen the rest of this 25 minutes long video, won't watch it for a second time.
That will make the YT-algo think this is bad content...
I watched it all the way through again to try to understand better the point being made in the latter half.
Good point on the YT-algorithm-but at least it was caught relatively early. I'll watch it all the way through again to help their stats.🤓
@@dreamburn1 Yes, props for owning up to mistakes made and it's awfully nice of you to courageously watcht the whole thing again ;-) Yet a 5minuste mea-culpa-video pointing to the edited version of the original video would have been the clever way to go.
I'm not going to lie.
Capitalism in this country sucks since we don’t have a government that responds to people's needs, like car safety, except for corporate interests and wealthy people. Also, it is should be noted our Congress are the best stock traders in the world because they control the laws and profit off of their decisions. Also, since we’re talking about cars that are deadly devices when accidents happen, subscription service is total BS for safety features which are a social good for everyone.
Nikki you look great. Have you lost weight?
Where are all the (valid) comments of the original post? Not really nice to see they are gone.
They’re on the old video. RUclips doesn’t let you upload to replace a video. - Nikki
@@transportevolved
That's a pitty as nobody will react twice to the "same" video.
Sadly, we had a choice: get burned at the metaphorical state, or reupload as a new video.
They call the hands on feature. Copilot360