Which rank do you think is the backbone of the Royal Air Force? Welcome back! If you are new here make sure to hit subscribe to expand your knowledge on Military History and join the growing Premier History Community!
@@alexrowson-brown6568 I was referring to the English type formations, not the US. In the US, the Squadron is still the basic unit of the Air Force. A US squadron is headed by a Major or these days, a Lt. Colonel (possibly due to rank inflation).
The rank of Lance Corporal is specific to the Royal Air Force Regiment only and has no equivalent in any other RAF trade, the Senior Aircraftman Technician was introduced to replace the old rank of Junior Technician, in the old technical trades Senior Aircraftman was the highest rank a mechanic could reach before doing advanced training and becoming a Junior Technician, the lowest rank of technician, this was a necessary step to achieving NCO rank.
Hi guys, I'm an applicant in the process of joining the Royal Air Force. I'll be covering the entire application process on my channel. I just posted a video about the Selection Interview on my channel which I think may interest some of you! I'd appreciate it if you had any feedback too. Thank you.
yes also, seniour aircraft technician is only on certain trade, so SAC is highest rank before you jump to corporal in many trades.. video is gonna make more confuse.
Also it must be noted that promotion in the RAF is far slower then the Army due to a longer expected career span. Rank for rank RAF personnel are on the whole far more experinced and often have more responsibility than many Army personnel at the same rank.
@@bobbralee1019 Basically infantry doing foot patrols in Afghanistan compared to airmen staying on an airbase and never leaving. But its comparing apples to oranges. Both couldn't do the other persons job.
Dad was a Load Master Sergeant, I was born in Penang. I had the joy through the 60's and 70's of being dragged halfway around the world as a family of a RAF serviceman... sure taught me a few life lessons
Nicely done. I feel this video would be useful to cadets, however it needs more detail. For example- lance corporal is within the RAF regiment and RAF police are promoted to corporal at the start of their career.
@@notmenotme614 Total RUBBISH PTI's and Police are ACTING CPL's they are basically SAC rank but because they are in a position of importance then they get the stripes. As for nurses RUBBISH, if they are civvie nurses who have joined the RAF with a high level of degree then yes they do get promoted depending upon their experience. However, one of which said to me that he was an acting such a such a rank. However, if you join the RAF and have no experience then you go through the ranks as per normal. An acting what ever is not the same as a real CPL or SGT they do not hold the full rank. In ATC you also have SAC's. It is not an automatic promotion, however if you came from Heathrow airport as a civvie then yes that might be the case. A full CPL or SGT etc out ranks an acting all of the time. Also the pay is different as well, an acting will not get the full pay of a proper CPL, SGT etc. So an acting PTI or snow drop in this case will not get the same pay as a proper job. However, for nurses based on their experience then yes their pay bracket will be different. Doctors and Dentists are instant officers and pay to reflect that rank and experience.
@@yodaslovetoy That's similar to the Federal Law Enforcement authority of the US Coast Guard... Only Petty Officer 3rd class (NATO OR-4) and higher may exercise federal authority, or effect arrests of military personnel under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. However, for American Military Police (Army, Air Force, Marines) if you have graduated from Military Police school, you are promoted to OR-3, issued a badge, and technically may effect arrests. Navy MPs, called Master at Arms, must be at least Petty Officer 3c (OR-4) to make arrests. Most of the time an "arrest" meaning *restraint/taking into custody/confinement is done by a Non Commissioned Officer (OR-4 & above), and applies to enlisted personnel. In the U.S. , Warrant and Chief Warrant Officers are in the same category as Commissioned Officers (they are saluted etc). The USAF no longer has Warrant Officers. Also, unless directed by a Commanding Officer, or unless they have committed a felony offense in the presence of a Non Commissioned Officer or higher, no Warrant or Commissioned Officer may be confined/taken into custody/physically restrained. They are otherwise "on their honor" to remain in quarters, limit their own liberty, etc... Whenever possible, in matters involving military justice, Officers are handled by Officers.
@@notmenotme614 Historically, since the Second World War, U.S. Nurses are Commissioned Officers who may only exercise Officer authority over other nurses/enlisted or NCO medical personnel. It's not unusual for a "senior" nurse i.e. Lieutenant Colonel to militarily outrank a Doctor i.e. Captain. She is to be saluted, but may not give orders to a Doctor.
The SAC(T) rank, a 3 Blade Propeller insignia inside a circle, replaced the Junior Technician rank title that had a 4 blade propellor (with no surrounding circle) in 2005.
@@thearmouredpenguin7148 Thanks mate, I'm glad I left when I did? I believe my old trade of Armourer hardly exists at 2nd and 3rd line any more? And what's left have dropped pay bands drastically?
@@johnp8131 Likewise, I got out in the mid 80's. I met one of the last few remaining JTs sometime around 2008 when he was on a training course with the company where I worked. I think 3rd line has virtually ceased to exist in all trades. As far as I can make out the kit seems to go from 1st line, via a 2nd line filter bench, directly back to the manufacturer/4th Line,.
Lance Corporal is only in RAF Regt and only so that the Army can understand who are the section or fire team leaders. There is an unnoficial rank of Senior Senior Aircraftman - who are the most experienced and trusted SAC's who carry most of the workload in the absence of any actual NCO's (which happens more often than you think!!!!)
They abolished the rank of Junior Technician (4-bladed prop) because the idiots at the top could see no purpose in it. Only when it had gone did they realise there was no way to distinguish between an SAC Mechanic and an SAC Engineer. Having got the Queen to ditch the JT rank they couldn't embarrass themselves by asking her to reinstate it, so they came up with the circle around the 3-bladed prop). Millions of taxpayer pounds wasted simply because the neddies at the top don't know how the RAF works. These are the same class of idiots that years ago gave all the Trade List 1 (Engines, Airframe, Electrics) Chief Technicians a massive pay rise (because they work on aircraft) but gave nothing to the List 2 (Airborne Radar, Comms, Nav Instruments, etc) Chiefs. Fact is Trade List 2 Personnel have exactly the same responsibilities as List 1. It's the LINE of service that determines where you work. 1st Line is on aircraft, 2nd Line is in the Bay, 3rd Line is at a Maintenance Unit and 4th Line is the Manufacturer, and any engineer can be sent to work on any of them. The Air Rank morons didn't even know the difference between Trade Lists and Lines of Service!
Trade group one worked on a/c and had responsibility to the aircrew and PAX, unlike the hangar skivers! TG1 are in demand in civvy street and paid better! Mr bitter!
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz Total BS! Trade Group 1 was the 'Heavies' (Engines, Airframes , Electrics), Trade Group 2 was the 'Fairies' (Radar, Comms, Nav Instruments, Av Systems). BOTH Trade Groups worked on Aircraft (1st Line), in the equipment bays (2nd Line), at Maintenance Units (3rd Line) and, on occasion, 4th Line (Industry). Common novice mistake to confuse Trade Groups with Lines of Maintenance.
@@bobdylan7120 I was a Trade Group 1 rigger (airframe). from 1970-93. in that time you often moved from working in the hangar to working out on the line or in a bay. for example i arrived at Lossiemouth as a JT, working in the hangar, also going out onto the line to diagnose faults and look at leaks etc, six months later promoted to Corporal i was moved out on the line, as one of three NCO's running the flight line. I was lucky to stay a year, in which time the other NCO;s changed a couple of times , one was a sootie (engines) the other a fairy ( comms) A year later I was moved back into the hangar. six months I was post to RAF Bruggen where everybody on the squadron worked out of HAS,s you could be working fixing an aircraft in the morning and as an NCO being in charge of the see out/ see in crews later in the day. Flexibility was the key and the norm. As you say many did not know how it all worked. You were a techie, or you were a shiny, those that polished the seat of their trousers sitting at a desk.
I always thought it was odd that non-pilots and other ground personnel could be "pilot officers" and "flying officers". It is interesting how the RAF combined elements of naval and army ranks into naming its structure, perhaps because it amalgamated fliers from both. Taken without the words "flight," "wing" or "group" the ranks are equivalent to the RN.
That's because the Officer ranks were taken directly from the Royal Naval Air Service when it was combined with the Royal Flying Corps to form the RAF.
If I recall, they wanted to use Admiral ranks as well, but the RN opposed it. So they went with Marshals. Which is a smart move and differentiates the branches nicely.
The RAF was the amalgamation of the RFC and RNAS They kept the Army Rangs , including Sergeant Major for the non commissioned Ranks And Naval Ranking for the Commissioned Ranks Later introduced Warrant Officer and then Technician ranks But that was too good an idea so they scrapped it along with specialist aircrew ranks. The retained Chief Technician because Flight Sergeant was closer to WO II than Staff Sergeant. By a set of odd coincidences I was every possible rank from J/T to WO (except Master Tech) Apprentice,J/T, Cpl, Cpl/Tech, Senior Tech, Sgt, Chief Tech, Flight Sgt, WO . and don't start me on Trade nomes
Pilot Officer is not for non-graduate direct entry officers. It is the starting rank straight out of Cranwell for all ground branches apart from Engineering Officer. All aircrew start as Flying Officer. Thus the minority of officers graduating have the rank of flying officer out of training. Those who start as Plt Off's are only this rank for 6 months before automatic promotion to Fg Off.
On a flying squadron. The aircraft engineering ranks work like this.... SAC is the mechanics working on the aircraft. SAC(T) are just SAC's with further training, They still need to be supervised though. In aircraft engineering, supervision is a requirement. SAC's will do the most basic tasks on the flight line, like refuelling and flight servicing. While the SAC(T)s do more complex fault rectification. You're either "on the line" or "doing trade" Cpl is the supervisor in aircraft engineering trades. And if there’s a small team working on one aircraft he will be in charge of that team. If you want to be hands-on the jet doing spannering, Cpl is the best rank as you don't get the bs that the SACs have to put up with and every rank after Cpl is a desk job. Backbone of the RAF. Sgt is the manager who does the desk work. He plans what maintenance is going to be done and by who. Sgt’s also carry out independent inspections on critical systems and assess wiring damage. SNCOs have the experience to be subject matter experts when fault finding and asking what to do. CT is the trade manager, who looks after the trades manpower, courses and whos getting posted in and out. FS is the shift boss. They'll be one FS per shift. They will work out the shift roster and leave, similar to CT but for the entire shift rather than for one trade desk. WO is the non-commissioned boss of the whole Squadron. They'll only be one of them. If you're called into the WO's office, you've done something wrong. A one way conversation without tea or biscuits. A Junior Engineering Officer just says “yes” while the WO or FS is stood next to them whispering in their ear. There's one Jengo per shift. Sqn Ldr is the Senior Engineering Officer of the Squadron. Mostly there to approve work and sign it off. A Sengo will be on their second tour, while a Jengo will be on their first tour. Wg Cdr is the CO of the Squadron and is usually a Pilot, sometimes a Nav.
As someone who retired from the RAF in the mid nineties after a 22 year stint, a few of these non-commissioned ranks were new to me? When I first joined, I was told that the Flight Sergeant rank had been changed in the early seventies, as prior to that, it had equivalent to Chief Tech' in technical trades. Then they split them so a Chief would be paid less? I always found it strange that non-technical ranks would skip the rank of Chief Tech' but be senior to them, although often less qualified and experienced?
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz I was an Armourer from start to finish, at the beginning we were still know as "Fitters" or "Mechanics", if you took the long route. It was still Trade Group One at that time, being amongst the highest pay bands along with Riggers, Sooties, etc...... We used to work on everything armament wise down to fourth line servicing. Alas no more, much of the armament trade has been "civilianised" and they are no longer trade group one or the equivalent I believe. Finished as a Sgt working mostly on ejection systems.
In relation to an AC, although you get no rank tabs, you do wear squadron colours so in my days it would be a red, blue, green beret disc and also a coloured scarf. So you did have an identity and the basis of a rank. However, when you pass out of trade training then the forces are not really the forces any more, it becomes a small village and nine times out of ten you are on first name basis with the majority of the ranks. It was only a select few that actually went by their ranks. Yeah you would still address officers as Sir or Maaam, but when they are in civvies then pretty much knew their names. The one out of the ten who went by their ranks, were usually the bullies that made your life shit.
A good video, but you missed out three ranks within the NCO section RAF Sergeant Aircrew, three strips with wings above, Flight Sergeant Aircrew, three strips , wings and a crown and Master Aircrew, coat of arms, wings and laurels.
It is not, and you only have one AC rank or you did in my days. You was an AC as soon as you sign up, I was at Swinderby so I am the original old skool and we were straight AC's there was no AC1 or 2. I am not sure if that was different during WW2 or if they have changed since my day.
@@marknorville9611 Just for info' AC1 &AC2 were introduced in the RAF on Jan' 1919.They were phased out on 1st April 1964. The lowest rank then becoming simply 'Aircraftman'. (I just looked it up). Hope this helps.
I joined the RAF in 1975. When you were doing basic training at Swinderby you were an AC 2. After you passed out of Swinderby you were an AC 1. Then when you had gone on to and completed your basic trade training you were an LAC.@@marknorville9611
An SAC is generally given the rank after completing a year after finishing trade training. A Flight Lieutenant is normally in charge of around thirty personnel, a "flight", or "platoon" in the army. They might also be an ops officer or adjutant .
I was in the RAF during 1962 to 1967.Usually there were more technician ranks then such as Jnr. Tech, Cpl Tech. Snr.Tech. Has the RAF abolished such ranks?Usually then the Cpl & Snr.Tech. ranks displayed inverted chevrons appropriate to their status. When did the RAF change this? PJS.
They've gone. I changed from a fitter to a technician in the seventies. Didn't get any more money though! I believe there's pretty much only 1st line and limited 2nd line servicing now? Most 2nd line, 3rd and 4th has now been privatised?
I was in the highest paid trade to include SAC's, TG13B, Ptr & Fnr, Painter and Finisher, we were paid extra due to the explosive and poisonous environment of an aircraft and vehicle spray bay and chemicals associated with surface finish restoration. Trade is now carried out by Serco affectionately known as circus by the ex Ptr & Fnr trade.
Launched 3 weeks ago and unfortunately incorrect. The terminology "aircraftman" no longer exists and has been replaced by "aviator". Also the rank of Lance Corporal only exists in the RAF Regiment and is used to denote the section 2IC.
The ranks in the RAF are very simple. The lowest entry rank was Hairdresser next by seniority and exam is Runway Sweeper 3 rd Class then 2nd Class on the Award of a new broom gaining Runway Sweeper First Class after passing exam for Pilots Mate ..This rank being achieved by selection. Senior Pilots Mate was awarded on performance and enthusiasm. .Very few reach the Rank of Flighty Sargent's Instructor. .. Station Mincing Instructor is an Honoury position without pay award. ...
Hi guys, I'm an applicant in the process of joining the RAF. I'll be covering the entire application process on my channel and I recently posted a video about the DAA and Selection Interview recently, which I think may interest some of you. I'd love to hear your feedback, thank you!
Historically, according to what was Queen's Regulations, when the RAF still ran the engineering apprenticeship scheme (ended 1993) The lowest rank in the RAF was Apprentice not Airman.
Surely since you had to go through basic training, as an airman, before starting apprentice training that would put airman lower down the pecking order than apprentice.
@@mrjockt No. I remember being a little surprised as well. It does make sense that 'apprentice is the lowest rank. After basic training an airman might go and do his trade training e.g. Supplier etc and then finish training and get posted to a unit. Whereas the lad who joined as an apprentice still had to complete his 3yrs apprentice to be of any use. Its certainly the rank order from RAF Queens Regulations in the 1980s - apprentice was the lowest rank. Engineering apprentice training was a training scheme all of its own. I know I did it. It was, I guess, like going to public school. Not sure what happens now - with the re-introduction of the so called modern apprenticeships.
How about Boy Entrant? I think we were regarded as lower than Apprentice, snobbishly, rather than actually. We did eighteen months, App;s did three years. Happy days, early sixties in my case. What I'm still vexed about is that having done twelve, because I came out prior to 6th April '75, I don't receive an RAF pension. In my case I was thirty three days too old. The guy in the next bed to me at St Athan did receive a pension.
Indeed, really depends on how much you know of the trade you are going into upon graduation from cranwell, some even grad as flight lieutenant though usually they are in medical roles
@@ethanmasters6722 that doesn’t always hold true, if you were a snco beforehand perhaps you would graduate at fg off but certain professions such as doctors have not only done medical degree but also all their training in the nhs to be fully certified, they come in as a flt lt upon graduation
Two years later and the ranks have been changed again, Leading Aircraftsman, Senior Aircraftsman and Senior Aircraftsman Technician have now been replaced with Air Specialist (Class 2), Air Specialist (Class 1) and Air Specialist (Class 1) Technician.
In the Indian Air force except for the rank of pilot officer on other commissioned ranks are used all commissioned officers of the Indian Air force hold the rank of flying officer
Senior Aircraft Technician used to be called Junior Technician. So what was the point of replacing JTs? The rank of Lance Corporal is new, far too much like an army rank.
If you want to be a hands on engineer doing spannering. Cpl is the best rank. And its debateable who's really in charge of a shift... the WO / FS or the Flying Officer.
If you want to be a hands on engineer doing spannering. Cpl is the best rank. And its debateable who's really in charge of a shift... the WO / FS or the Flying Officer.
You missed out the Aircrew ranks, namely Sergeant Aicrew, Flt Sergeant Aircrew, and Master Aircrew........ These are the backbone of the flying Branch, most crews of the Second World War and even today were NCO Aircrew.
Yes correct. RAF Officers flying club do not want to mix or acknowledge Sargeant pilots serving in the Army Air Corp! Or that SGT's were Pilots during WWII
Those ranks were all discontinued in the late '60s when the WRAF adopted the same officer ranks as the RAF, the WRAF itself ceased to exist in the early '90s.
L/Cpl in the regiment is the 2i/c of a section and is in charge of a fire team, 2 fire teams make a section the Cpl is the section commander the descriptions of the regiment on here are bollox
Actually it is. It’s an officer rank. A Good friend was one. Rare but a rank none the less. It occurs when for example you have ‘specialist’ skills too valuable to lose from an aircraft role. Example, airborne early warning, or Elint. Normally those people are held at Flt Lt rank. Otherwise they would be promoted and moved off the aircraft to a desk and so on. So the rank specialist was created. My friend was paid as a Sqn Ldr but wore the rank of `Flt Lt’ but with the addition of an insignia saying specialist . Everyone knew he was of Sqn Ldr rank.
I think you may frind that Specialist is a Branch such as legal not a rank as such, I served 35 years and never heard of it and its not listed by the RAF as a rank on their website.
SAC has now been replaced with AS1 for those who have finished training .they had to go AS1 and 2 as SAC had man in its name and the females were being called Serior Air Craftsman 😂😂
Can't understand why they didn't just switch out ''man'' and ''woman'' in the rank designation with ''person'', i.e. Leading Aircraft Person, Senior Aircrafts Person.
I was on shortish NATO detatchments a lot whilst at RAF Wyton when the Canberras were there in the eighties and nineties. And I must admit, other than regular visits to Akrotiri and Kinloss, most of the time on European detachments, we were in Hotels with imprest payments for meals too. Often this was mainly due to the majority of the detatchment personnel being junior NCO's upwards (RAF & Navy combined) and many NATO Airforces only had substandard conscript accomodation and messing?
It's not really a rank, it carries no actual authority, for example an OC can't issue a direct order to a junior rank they can merely ask them to do something.
Definitely not Wing Commanders as they're senior management and there's too few of them. Probably was Cpl as they can manage lesser ranks and do the donkey work if necessary. At least that was the case 20 years ago.
Back when I served in the RAF, the 1980's, Sergeants were more often concerned with paperwork and admin duties and left the day to day running of things to the Corporals.
Which rank do you think is the backbone of the Royal Air Force?
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Corporal.
Corporals do all the work, every time
Squadron Leader. Airmen associate with a squadron for example, 617 Squadron, the Dambusters or 303 Sqaudron in the Battle of Britain.
@@peace-now in ww2 a sqn Ldr would indeed command a squadron but now no there is no need
@@alexrowson-brown6568 I was referring to the English type formations, not the US. In the US, the Squadron is still the basic unit of the Air Force. A US squadron is headed by a Major or these days, a Lt. Colonel (possibly due to rank inflation).
The rank of Lance Corporal is specific to the Royal Air Force Regiment only and has no equivalent in any other RAF trade, the Senior Aircraftman Technician was introduced to replace the old rank of Junior Technician, in the old technical trades Senior Aircraftman was the highest rank a mechanic could reach before doing advanced training and becoming a Junior Technician, the lowest rank of technician, this was a necessary step to achieving NCO rank.
same with the Army I guess; different ranks for different regiments.
Hi guys, I'm an applicant in the process of joining the Royal Air Force.
I'll be covering the entire application process on my channel. I just posted a video about the Selection Interview on my channel which I think may interest some of you!
I'd appreciate it if you had any feedback too.
Thank you.
Even then the rank of Lance Corporal for the Rock Apes is still new-ish. Even Rocks never had the rank when I wore a blue suit.
Lance Corporal rank was introduced in 2010 within the RAF Regiment (RAF Infantry) only, and is not a rank used in any other type of RAF Units.
yes also, seniour aircraft technician is only on certain trade, so SAC is highest rank before you jump to corporal in many trades..
video is gonna make more confuse.
Also it must be noted that promotion in the RAF is far slower then the Army due to a longer expected career span. Rank for rank RAF personnel are on the whole far more experinced and often have more responsibility than many Army personnel at the same rank.
The experience and responsibility I wouldn’t say are higher than the Army, remember Army personnel leave the wire more than RAF
@@insertnamehere5660 What do you mean by "The wire" ?
@@bobbralee1019 As an ex RAF tech', I haven't got a clue what he's saying?
Yep. Its dead mans shoes.
@@bobbralee1019 Basically infantry doing foot patrols in Afghanistan compared to airmen staying on an airbase and never leaving.
But its comparing apples to oranges. Both couldn't do the other persons job.
Dad was a Load Master Sergeant, I was born in Penang. I had the joy through the 60's and 70's of being dragged halfway around the world as a family of a RAF serviceman... sure taught me a few life lessons
My grandfather from New Zealand was a sergeant in the RAF in WW2. thanks again for another informative video 😎👍🇳🇿
Thanks for sharing Ceddy
My mother was god friends with Johnny Checkitts who became a wing commander in WW2. She also knew Edgar Kane, who flew in the Battle of France.
Nicely done. I feel this video would be useful to cadets, however it needs more detail. For example- lance corporal is within the RAF regiment and RAF police are promoted to corporal at the start of their career.
I think some air traffic controllers and nurses are promoted to Sgt at the start of their career too, after training.
PTI's are also a Cpl.
@@notmenotme614 Total RUBBISH PTI's and Police are ACTING CPL's they are basically SAC rank but because they are in a position of importance then they get the stripes. As for nurses RUBBISH, if they are civvie nurses who have joined the RAF with a high level of degree then yes they do get promoted depending upon their experience. However, one of which said to me that he was an acting such a such a rank. However, if you join the RAF and have no experience then you go through the ranks as per normal. An acting what ever is not the same as a real CPL or SGT they do not hold the full rank. In ATC you also have SAC's. It is not an automatic promotion, however if you came from Heathrow airport as a civvie then yes that might be the case. A full CPL or SGT etc out ranks an acting all of the time. Also the pay is different as well, an acting will not get the full pay of a proper CPL, SGT etc. So an acting PTI or snow drop in this case will not get the same pay as a proper job. However, for nurses based on their experience then yes their pay bracket will be different. Doctors and Dentists are instant officers and pay to reflect that rank and experience.
Raf police are given the rank but not the pay of corporal. Anyone less that a corporal does not have arrest powers
@@yodaslovetoy That's similar to the Federal Law Enforcement authority of the US Coast Guard... Only Petty Officer 3rd class (NATO OR-4) and higher may exercise federal authority, or effect arrests of military personnel under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. However, for American Military Police (Army, Air Force, Marines) if you have graduated from Military Police school, you are promoted to OR-3, issued a badge, and technically may effect arrests. Navy MPs, called Master at Arms, must be at least Petty Officer 3c (OR-4) to make arrests. Most of the time an "arrest" meaning *restraint/taking into custody/confinement is done by a Non Commissioned Officer (OR-4 & above), and applies to enlisted personnel. In the U.S. , Warrant and Chief Warrant Officers are in the same category as Commissioned Officers (they are saluted etc). The USAF no longer has Warrant Officers. Also, unless directed by a Commanding Officer, or unless they have committed a felony offense in the presence of a Non Commissioned Officer or higher, no Warrant or Commissioned Officer may be confined/taken into custody/physically restrained. They are otherwise "on their honor" to remain in quarters, limit their own liberty, etc... Whenever possible, in matters involving military justice, Officers are handled by Officers.
@@notmenotme614 Historically, since the Second World War, U.S. Nurses are Commissioned Officers who may only exercise Officer authority over other nurses/enlisted or NCO medical personnel. It's not unusual for a "senior" nurse i.e. Lieutenant Colonel to militarily outrank a Doctor i.e. Captain. She is to be saluted, but may not give orders to a Doctor.
The SAC(T) rank, a 3 Blade Propeller insignia inside a circle, replaced the Junior Technician rank title that had a 4 blade propellor (with no surrounding circle) in 2005.
And the four bladed prop superseded a single inverted chevron in 1964.
So what happened to those that were already JT's? Did they just 'Mark time' until they made Corporal or left the RAF?
@@johnp8131 I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they did.
@@thearmouredpenguin7148 Thanks mate, I'm glad I left when I did? I believe my old trade of Armourer hardly exists at 2nd and 3rd line any more? And what's left have dropped pay bands drastically?
@@johnp8131 Likewise, I got out in the mid 80's. I met one of the last few remaining JTs sometime around 2008 when he was on a training course with the company where I worked.
I think 3rd line has virtually ceased to exist in all trades. As far as I can make out the kit seems to go from 1st line, via a 2nd line filter bench, directly back to the manufacturer/4th Line,.
Lance Corporal is only in RAF Regt and only so that the Army can understand who are the section or fire team leaders. There is an unnoficial rank of Senior Senior Aircraftman - who are the most experienced and trusted SAC's who carry most of the workload in the absence of any actual NCO's (which happens more often than you think!!!!)
They abolished the rank of Junior Technician (4-bladed prop) because the idiots at the top could see no purpose in it. Only when it had gone did they realise there was no way to distinguish between an SAC Mechanic and an SAC Engineer. Having got the Queen to ditch the JT rank they couldn't embarrass themselves by asking her to reinstate it, so they came up with the circle around the 3-bladed prop). Millions of taxpayer pounds wasted simply because the neddies at the top don't know how the RAF works.
These are the same class of idiots that years ago gave all the Trade List 1 (Engines, Airframe, Electrics) Chief Technicians a massive pay rise (because they work on aircraft) but gave nothing to the List 2 (Airborne Radar, Comms, Nav Instruments, etc) Chiefs. Fact is Trade List 2 Personnel have exactly the same responsibilities as List 1. It's the LINE of service that determines where you work. 1st Line is on aircraft, 2nd Line is in the Bay, 3rd Line is at a Maintenance Unit and 4th Line is the Manufacturer, and any engineer can be sent to work on any of them. The Air Rank morons didn't even know the difference between Trade Lists and Lines of Service!
When I was in the RAF airmen or airwomen that went to Henlow became Flying Officers,in recognition of previous service
Trade group one worked on a/c and had responsibility to the aircrew and PAX, unlike the hangar skivers! TG1 are in demand in civvy street and paid better! Mr bitter!
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz Total BS!
Trade Group 1 was the 'Heavies' (Engines, Airframes , Electrics), Trade Group 2 was the 'Fairies' (Radar, Comms, Nav Instruments, Av Systems). BOTH Trade Groups worked on Aircraft (1st Line), in the equipment bays (2nd Line), at Maintenance Units (3rd Line) and, on occasion, 4th Line (Industry).
Common novice mistake to confuse Trade Groups with Lines of Maintenance.
@@bobdylan7120 I was a Trade Group 1 rigger (airframe). from 1970-93. in that time you often moved from working in the hangar to working out on the line or in a bay. for example i arrived at Lossiemouth as a JT, working in the hangar, also going out onto the line to diagnose faults and look at leaks etc, six months later promoted to Corporal i was moved out on the line, as one of three NCO's running the flight line. I was lucky to stay a year, in which time the other NCO;s changed a couple of times , one was a sootie (engines) the other a fairy ( comms) A year later I was moved back into the hangar. six months I was post to RAF Bruggen where everybody on the squadron worked out of HAS,s you could be working fixing an aircraft in the morning and as an NCO being in charge of the see out/ see in crews later in the day. Flexibility was the key and the norm. As you say many did not know how it all worked. You were a techie, or you were a shiny, those that polished the seat of their trousers sitting at a desk.
The use of Aircraftman has now been abolished in The RAF and, I believe, the use of Air Specialist and Aviator have replaced it.
Is there still any one in the RAF, all technical work is contracted out. Maybe a few FLM's and driver the skivers on the flightline?
I always thought it was odd that non-pilots and other ground personnel could be "pilot officers" and "flying officers". It is interesting how the RAF combined elements of naval and army ranks into naming its structure, perhaps because it amalgamated fliers from both. Taken without the words "flight," "wing" or "group" the ranks are equivalent to the RN.
That's because the Officer ranks were taken directly from the Royal Naval Air Service when it was combined with the Royal Flying Corps to form the RAF.
Its just a name and not a description
If I recall, they wanted to use Admiral ranks as well, but the RN opposed it. So they went with Marshals. Which is a smart move and differentiates the branches nicely.
The RAF was the amalgamation of the RFC and RNAS They kept the Army Rangs , including Sergeant Major for the non commissioned Ranks And Naval Ranking for the Commissioned Ranks Later introduced Warrant Officer and then Technician ranks But that was too good an idea so they scrapped it along with specialist aircrew ranks. The retained Chief Technician because Flight Sergeant was closer to WO II than Staff Sergeant. By a set of odd coincidences I was every possible rank from J/T to WO (except Master Tech) Apprentice,J/T, Cpl, Cpl/Tech, Senior Tech, Sgt, Chief Tech, Flight Sgt, WO . and don't start me on Trade nomes
My grand father is in royal airforce he is started with lance corporal and ended with Group captain
He passes in 1958-2016 😭😭😭
Leading Aircraftman rank is awarded on the completion of basic trade training and is not because they are more experienced.
Yes the Air Force was better when it had Jelly Totts !
Pilot Officer is not for non-graduate direct entry officers. It is the starting rank straight out of Cranwell for all ground branches apart from Engineering Officer. All aircrew start as Flying Officer. Thus the minority of officers graduating have the rank of flying officer out of training. Those who start as Plt Off's are only this rank for 6 months before automatic promotion to Fg Off.
My Dad is a CPL and is an ASOS (Air and Space Operations Specialist)
Under which trade is that?
On a flying squadron. The aircraft engineering ranks work like this....
SAC is the mechanics working on the aircraft.
SAC(T) are just SAC's with further training, They still need to be supervised though. In aircraft engineering, supervision is a requirement. SAC's will do the most basic tasks on the flight line, like refuelling and flight servicing. While the SAC(T)s do more complex fault rectification. You're either "on the line" or "doing trade"
Cpl is the supervisor in aircraft engineering trades. And if there’s a small team working on one aircraft he will be in charge of that team. If you want to be hands-on the jet doing spannering, Cpl is the best rank as you don't get the bs that the SACs have to put up with and every rank after Cpl is a desk job. Backbone of the RAF.
Sgt is the manager who does the desk work. He plans what maintenance is going to be done and by who. Sgt’s also carry out independent inspections on critical systems and assess wiring damage. SNCOs have the experience to be subject matter experts when fault finding and asking what to do.
CT is the trade manager, who looks after the trades manpower, courses and whos getting posted in and out.
FS is the shift boss. They'll be one FS per shift. They will work out the shift roster and leave, similar to CT but for the entire shift rather than for one trade desk.
WO is the non-commissioned boss of the whole Squadron. They'll only be one of them. If you're called into the WO's office, you've done something wrong. A one way conversation without tea or biscuits.
A Junior Engineering Officer just says “yes” while the WO or FS is stood next to them whispering in their ear. There's one Jengo per shift.
Sqn Ldr is the Senior Engineering Officer of the Squadron. Mostly there to approve work and sign it off. A Sengo will be on their second tour, while a Jengo will be on their first tour.
Wg Cdr is the CO of the Squadron and is usually a Pilot, sometimes a Nav.
There were very few warrant officers engineers, in my time. Very accurate explanation.
Once again another great video and I really hope that you get 10,000 subscribers really soon
Thanks for the support Homy
As someone who retired from the RAF in the mid nineties after a 22 year stint, a few of these non-commissioned ranks were new to me?
When I first joined, I was told that the Flight Sergeant rank had been changed in the early seventies, as prior to that, it had equivalent to Chief Tech' in technical trades. Then they split them so a Chief would be paid less? I always found it strange that non-technical ranks would skip the rank of Chief Tech' but be senior to them, although often less qualified and experienced?
Yep its like technical trades have an extra 2 ranks to jump through... Junior Technician (or its modern equivalent) and Chief Technician
Were you non-technical? A/C, LAC, SAC, CPL, SGT, Flt SGT, WO man? Technical and best paid A/C, LAC, SAC, JT, CPl, SGT, C/T, FLT SGT and then WOman
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz I was an Armourer from start to finish, at the beginning we were still know as "Fitters" or "Mechanics", if you took the long route. It was still Trade Group One at that time, being amongst the highest pay bands along with Riggers, Sooties, etc...... We used to work on everything armament wise down to fourth line servicing. Alas no more, much of the armament trade has been "civilianised" and they are no longer trade group one or the equivalent I believe. Finished as a Sgt working mostly on ejection systems.
These are out of date now. Recruits are ranked AR (Air Recruit)
It then goes
AS2. (air serviceman)
AS1
AS1 (Tech)
In relation to an AC, although you get no rank tabs, you do wear squadron colours so in my days it would be a red, blue, green beret disc and also a coloured scarf. So you did have an identity and the basis of a rank. However, when you pass out of trade training then the forces are not really the forces any more, it becomes a small village and nine times out of ten you are on first name basis with the majority of the ranks. It was only a select few that actually went by their ranks. Yeah you would still address officers as Sir or Maaam, but when they are in civvies then pretty much knew their names. The one out of the ten who went by their ranks, were usually the bullies that made your life shit.
A good video, but you missed out three ranks within the NCO section RAF Sergeant Aircrew, three strips with wings above, Flight Sergeant Aircrew, three strips , wings and a crown and Master Aircrew, coat of arms, wings and laurels.
When did 'Aircraftman' cease to be a rank used in service? (Just asking). I remember two 'such ranks - AC1 & AC2.
It is not, and you only have one AC rank or you did in my days. You was an AC as soon as you sign up, I was at Swinderby so I am the original old skool and we were straight AC's there was no AC1 or 2. I am not sure if that was different during WW2 or if they have changed since my day.
@@marknorville9611 Just for info' AC1 &AC2 were introduced in the RAF on Jan' 1919.They were phased out on 1st April 1964. The lowest rank then becoming simply 'Aircraftman'. (I just looked it up). Hope this helps.
I joined the RAF in 1975. When you were doing basic training at Swinderby you were an AC 2. After you passed out of Swinderby you were an AC 1. Then when you had gone on to and completed your basic trade training you were an LAC.@@marknorville9611
We were just called you, or airman by officers and SNCO's not by rank many times!
Funnily I put SAC retired after my name but was told only Officers can put it after their names!Utter bollocks 😂😂😂
An SAC is generally given the rank after completing a year after finishing trade training. A Flight Lieutenant is normally in charge of around thirty personnel, a "flight", or "platoon" in the army. They might also be an ops officer or adjutant .
I was in the RAF during 1962 to 1967.Usually there were more technician ranks then such as Jnr. Tech, Cpl Tech. Snr.Tech. Has the RAF abolished such ranks?Usually then the Cpl & Snr.Tech. ranks displayed inverted chevrons appropriate to their status. When did the RAF change this? PJS.
They've gone. I changed from a fitter to a technician in the seventies. Didn't get any more money though! I believe there's pretty much only 1st line and limited 2nd line servicing now? Most 2nd line, 3rd and 4th has now been privatised?
I’m gonna join the RAAF when I’m older and hope to be a fighter pilot
its cool to have dream but i hope you understand the hardship it brings. good luck on your journey
There's so much more to do in the RAF than shoot guns or fly
I wish you luck
The back bone of the RAF used to be an SAC , and for tech used to be JTs now it’s a AS2
Can you do a presentation where you compare the insignia of all the Army, Navy, and Air Force side by side by rank?
I was in the highest paid trade to include SAC's, TG13B, Ptr & Fnr, Painter and Finisher, we were paid extra due to the explosive and poisonous environment of an aircraft and vehicle spray bay and chemicals associated with surface finish restoration. Trade is now carried out by Serco affectionately known as circus by the ex Ptr & Fnr trade.
Aircraftman has now become Aviator, just as an FYI :-).
Launched 3 weeks ago and unfortunately incorrect. The terminology "aircraftman" no longer exists and has been replaced by "aviator".
Also the rank of Lance Corporal only exists in the RAF Regiment and is used to denote the section 2IC.
It is not aviator in terms of rank though is it they are Air specialist.
No more Airmen then? Why would a reg grunt fly an a/c (aviator)? Logic and raf do not mix!
The ranks in the RAF are very simple. The lowest entry rank was Hairdresser next by seniority and exam is Runway Sweeper 3 rd Class then 2nd Class on the Award of a new broom gaining Runway Sweeper First Class after passing exam for Pilots Mate ..This rank being achieved by selection. Senior Pilots Mate was awarded on performance and enthusiasm. .Very few reach the Rank of Flighty Sargent's Instructor. .. Station Mincing Instructor is an Honoury position without pay award. ...
Isnt the Aircraftman in the RAF regiment called a Gunner ?
Always used to be. Maybe the 'Rock Apes' have a new PC name instead of Gunner these days?
Hi guys, I'm an applicant in the process of joining the RAF.
I'll be covering the entire application process on my channel and I recently posted a video about the DAA and Selection Interview recently, which I think may interest some of you.
I'd love to hear your feedback, thank you!
All rank descriptions are now out of date
Thanks for the video! Could you make a video on the Australian Military ranks?
They are 95% the same as British ranks.
Thanks.
This has now changed as Aircraftman is now Air Specialist presumably to be gender neutral 😂
It’s missing the SNCO Aircrew ranks (different as they have the aircrew eagles on)
Historically, according to what was Queen's Regulations, when the RAF still ran the engineering apprenticeship scheme (ended 1993) The lowest rank in the RAF was Apprentice not Airman.
Surely since you had to go through basic training, as an airman, before starting apprentice training that would put airman lower down the pecking order than apprentice.
@@mrjockt No. I remember being a little surprised as well. It does make sense that 'apprentice is the lowest rank. After basic training an airman might go and do his trade training e.g. Supplier etc and then finish training and get posted to a unit.
Whereas the lad who joined as an apprentice still had to complete his 3yrs apprentice to be of any use.
Its certainly the rank order from RAF Queens Regulations in the 1980s - apprentice was the lowest rank. Engineering apprentice training was a training scheme all of its own. I know I did it. It was, I guess, like going to public school.
Not sure what happens now - with the re-introduction of the so called modern apprenticeships.
@@jjsmallpiece9234 If that's correct then ''whooppee'' I was actually higher in rank than others at Halton, lol.🤣
@@mrjockt Its is correct for the 1980s and to the end of the RAF engineering scheme in 1993
How about Boy Entrant? I think we were regarded as lower than Apprentice, snobbishly, rather than actually. We did eighteen months, App;s did three years. Happy days, early sixties in my case. What I'm still vexed about is that having done twelve, because I came out prior to 6th April '75, I don't receive an RAF pension. In my case I was thirty three days too old. The guy in the next bed to me at St Athan did receive a pension.
Even with three university degrees it is possible to graduate from RAF Cranwell as a Pilot Officer rather than a Flying Officer.
Indeed, really depends on how much you know of the trade you are going into upon graduation from cranwell, some even grad as flight lieutenant though usually they are in medical roles
You will only grad from cranwell as a pilot officer nothing higher if you come from university or civilian even if you have 3 degrees
@@ethanmasters6722 not true people gead as flying officers and flight lieutenant if medical
@@alexrowson-brown6568 only if you have commissioned from a non-commissioned rank you go in at one above others who come straight in I think
@@ethanmasters6722 that doesn’t always hold true, if you were a snco beforehand perhaps you would graduate at fg off but certain professions such as doctors have not only done medical degree but also all their training in the nhs to be fully certified, they come in as a flt lt upon graduation
Missed Marked Ranks:
0:28 Aircraftman
2:00 Corporal
2:17 Sergeant
Two years later and the ranks have been changed again, Leading Aircraftsman, Senior Aircraftsman and Senior Aircraftsman Technician have now been replaced with Air Specialist (Class 2), Air Specialist (Class 1) and Air Specialist (Class 1) Technician.
Guaranteed promotion and gongs all round for those sitting on their arses in Whitehall who thought of that.
Since when did the rank of Lance Corporal become an RAF Rank?
Since 0212 in the RAF Regicment only.
Bloody computer keyboard (or more likely me)! ..... Since 2010 in the RAF Regiment only.
@@Altavista006 thank you for that used to be in the ATC ( Now RAF cadets )
Its RAF Reg, for the 2 i/c of a section.
It was created to reward them for the responsibility
Not in the RAF. Only in the regiment.
CORRECTION!!
Lance Corporal Rank: Only to personnel serving in the RAF Regiment
Too thick to join the RAF technical trades and too stupid to join the army? So not real RAF!!
Having served in the R.A.F. I would have to say SAC
Hardest rank has to be Cpl. Both producer and supervisor and face of every trade.
True. Its the highest rank thats hands on
@@notmenotme614 Used to still get my hands dirty as a Sgt Armourer when I could. Trouble is 90% of the trade has gone! I would agree with Cpl though.
In the Indian Air force except for the rank of pilot officer on other commissioned ranks are used all commissioned officers of the Indian Air force hold the rank of flying officer
Why are corporals wearing sashes ? In the army, sergeants and senior ncos only
Back bone of the RAF, every time SAC.
Senior Aircraft Technician used to be called Junior Technician. So what was the point of replacing JTs? The rank of Lance Corporal is new, far too much like an army rank.
Chief Technician was the senior rank mentioning "Technician" there were/are Flt SGTs and W/O technical a/c trades.
@@JohnSmith-ei2pz Correct. Hence why I question getting rid of the JT rank/airman to signify and engineering trade group. I was in TG1.
Probably to pacify the non-technical trades who hated techies!@@jjsmallpiece9234
There aren't that many. It's only confusing to those ignorant of the military ranking system.
Question: RAF regiment uses air force rank or Army/marine ranks?
A very well presented video the ncos are the backbone of any of the forces 👌👌
Thanks David glad you enjoyed it
If you want to be a hands on engineer doing spannering. Cpl is the best rank.
And its debateable who's really in charge of a shift... the WO / FS or the Flying Officer.
If you want to be a hands on engineer doing spannering. Cpl is the best rank.
And its debateable who's really in charge of a shift... the WO / FS or the Flying Officer.
FS or WO not the pretty boy!@@notmenotme614
My older brother works for the RAF and he opened a door to someone who's new with his middle finger and a officer came by and said 'is that to me?
Lance Corporal is only in the RAF Regiment
And Army so not proper RAF!!
You missed out the Aircrew ranks, namely Sergeant Aicrew, Flt Sergeant Aircrew, and Master Aircrew........ These are the backbone of the flying Branch, most crews of the Second World War and even today were NCO Aircrew.
Yes correct. RAF Officers flying club do not want to mix or acknowledge Sargeant pilots serving in the Army Air Corp! Or that SGT's were Pilots during WWII
What about women's RAF ranks? Is "officer" still in use i.e. Flight Officer or Squadron Officer etc?
How sexist! There have been women sering in the RAF for decades! Known as mam!
Those ranks were all discontinued in the late '60s when the WRAF adopted the same officer ranks as the RAF, the WRAF itself ceased to exist in the early '90s.
Why are you speaking in slow motion dude? You add 20% speed there to get things moving
Nice!!!
There are still a couple of Junior Technicians floating about.
There is also the rank of Hotel Booker.
All militaries depend on their NCO's to function.
L/Cpl in the regiment is the 2i/c of a section and is in charge of a fire team, 2 fire teams make a section the Cpl is the section commander the descriptions of the regiment on here are bollox
Please do royal marine next 🙏
It’s same as the army
RM uses the same rank structure and insignia as the British Army infantry Units.
@@scotia001 thank you for saying what I said but in more words
@@alexrowson-brown6568 you mean ‘more eloquently’ ….
@@scotia001 “why use more words when few words do trick”
I hope you will explain the rank structure of the Canadian military. It's pretty straight-forward except for the Master-Corporal rank/appointment.
You have chief technician,but NO aircrew sergeant,
S.A.C. the basis of ALL Squadrons.
How has the commissioned officer insignia changed, due to King Charles as monarch?
King's crown on headgear?
You missed one… Specialist !
That isn't a Rank in the RAF as the British don't use it
Actually it is. It’s an officer rank. A Good friend was one. Rare but a rank none the less. It occurs when for example you have ‘specialist’ skills too valuable to lose from an aircraft role. Example, airborne early warning, or Elint. Normally those people are held at Flt Lt rank. Otherwise they would be promoted and moved off the aircraft to a desk and so on. So the rank specialist was created. My friend was paid as a Sqn Ldr but wore the rank of `Flt Lt’ but with the addition of an insignia saying specialist . Everyone knew he was of Sqn Ldr rank.
I think you may frind that Specialist is a Branch such as legal not a rank as such, I served 35 years and never heard of it and its not listed by the RAF as a rank on their website.
Specialist is a role not a rank
Aircraftmen, do exist in service personnel
Yours fucking truly OF2
RAFR
Highest rank in the Air Force is Mister. !😊
could you please do a video on the Australian Air Force ranks?
I would love to be there..CAP
SAC has now been replaced with AS1 for those who have finished training .they had to go AS1 and 2 as SAC had man in its name and the females were being called Serior Air Craftsman 😂😂
Can't understand why they didn't just switch out ''man'' and ''woman'' in the rank designation with ''person'', i.e. Leading Aircraft Person, Senior Aircrafts Person.
@@mrjockt then we would be nick named Laps and Saps ahhahaa
@@freespeech4023 Instead they’re called “ass 1’s” and “ass 2’s”, I know which I’d prefer.
@mrjockt no they are called AS1 and AS2
Needs updating.
There seem to be so many ranks in every organisation on earth according to you! 🤣
The RAF spend more time in hotel rooms thanany of the other services.
I was on shortish NATO detatchments a lot whilst at RAF Wyton when the Canberras were there in the eighties and nineties. And I must admit, other than regular visits to Akrotiri and Kinloss, most of the time on European detachments, we were in Hotels with imprest payments for meals too. Often this was mainly due to the majority of the detatchment personnel being junior NCO's upwards (RAF & Navy combined) and many NATO Airforces only had substandard conscript accomodation and messing?
RAF, because we tried harder at school.😁
You have missed cadet officer
Switch it around but yeh, Officer Cadets are the ranks of COs when going through Cranwell or while they are with the University Air Squadron
It's not really a rank, it carries no actual authority, for example an OC can't issue a direct order to a junior rank they can merely ask them to do something.
I’m in Air Force cadets does that count?
Yes. you're even lower!
WO are NCOs
Yup as they are officers by warrant not commission
The back bone of the RAF is the Corporal, generally Sergeant's and above tend to be tied up with essential administrative duties and paperwork.
Bollox... SAC's, come back when you grow up!
Hasn’t the term “aircraftsman” gone now? Replaced with something non gender specific?
@@englishspoon2930 RAF went woke now its going broke
Absolutely 💯!
👍👌
Wing commanders and seargents are the backbone
Cpls…….
Definitely not Wing Commanders as they're senior management and there's too few of them. Probably was Cpl as they can manage lesser ranks and do the donkey work if necessary. At least that was the case 20 years ago.
Cook
L/Cpl is RAF Regt only and the chevron is inverted.
The current RAF Regiment L/Cpl chevron is not inverted. Prior to 1964 Junior Technician rank insignia was an inverted chevron.
@@thearmouredpenguin7148, you win the inverted argument but I win the Rockape part.
Third ig
Officer ranks in India is also same lol
officer cadet (off cdt) was missed!!!
I'd say that Sargent is the backbone of most forces.
No SAC"
Back when I served in the RAF, the 1980's, Sergeants were more often concerned with paperwork and admin duties and left the day to day running of things to the Corporals.
Before Pilot Officer there is Acting Pilot Officer. They hold A Commision but have not yet had initial Officer Training.
First i am first
I like the Royal Air Force
I got to the rank of Squadron Leader in 12 years.
What on X-box Rupert?
Second :v
RAF went woke. Aircraftsman is gone
They didn't like aircraftsman or aircraftswoman so went to air specialist, what was wrong with just saying aircraftperson?
Lac are the back one of the raf