EXACTLY. You could put their guitars directly to amps and they would be Sonic Youth, crearly. You can set up 1000 pedals, you will not become Sonic Youth.
@@dulled9528 that doesn’t make any sense; it may mildly effect the tone because of string tension but when I go to open G from Standard I don’t change the settings on my amp or pedals and the tone dosent change just the tuning so explain to me how the Tuning will be the main factor in the tone for a SY song like “Dirty Boots”?
Apologies for being a wet blanket, but SY didn't use many fx. It's alternate tunings (that create the chorus effect) and cranking amps. Yes, later on my favorite guitarist Ranaldo used a lot of delay, but that's kinda it.
And I think the bass player Kim Gordon was really the only one who used phasers. Thurston had one but he mostly just used his Turbo Rat, Jimi Hendrix Octave Fuzz, and Sovtek Muffs. The phaser was like a filler effect in his chain.
Love that you weighed in on this. To me SY’s legacy has nothing to do with gear, everything to do with a diy punk attitude, but genre agnostic, and a spirit of experimentation. It’s ideas, fingers on instruments. Like go find whatever cheap guitar is available and commit to making your own very personal kind of noise with it.
Jazzmaster, neck pickup, clean loud amps and several alternate tunings, that's it. Some of their pedals were the Big Muff and the Ibanez Analog Delay, and several phasers, which was a prominent effect in a bunch of songs, and live performances, but 80% of their songs were just guitar>amp.
I am a giant Josh/JHS fan, but I have 2 quibbles: 1. Sonic Youth started in 1977 as part of NYC's "no-wave" scene, not 1981, and 2. while they used some FX later on (I saw them in '87 and Lee used a Boss DD beautifully), the key to their tone is their wacky tunings and extreme volume.
The only thing I will disagree with you on is the date. They formed 1981, they were separately around the scene in the 70s but they didn’t become Sonic youth till 81.
@@leeranaldo9776 thank you, Lee! It is good to get my facts straight, and better still to get my schooling from your own bad self. I must have misunderstood that Guitar Player article. Apologies to Josh, who is among other things a great historian.
@@SonicRave1 thank you! I learned the lesson that I am always telling others: we mustn’t presume to “correct” others unless we are sure we’re actually correct, and in this case I got my history all messed up.
@@SonicRave1 they were around since 1980 around a series of different names like Male Bonding or the Arcadians, which was before when Lee joined in '81
A super influential band, on my own playing, but also on so many later bands. Best show I ever saw was Sonic Youth in Atlanta after Daydream Nation. One of the worst was Sonic Youth in New Jersey, Goo. But it was a fabulous disaster so worst in a fascinating way.
The biggest part of the sound is the tuning. There are very good interviews to Thurston Moore where he explains how they got into alternate tuning and how that affects the sounds. Particularly there is an STS - Train Sessions - Thurston Moore video where you see him play Schizophrenia with almost just a bit of drive and sounds 100% Sonic Youth.
Like a lot of people have mentioned its their tunings that make them sound like sonic youth, playing behind the bridge on Jazz/Jaguar guitars, but they did heavily rely on effects too to create the soundscapes. Take the Diamond Sea for example, it was the Ludwig phase II that gave them the sound on that song without it, it wouldn't be the same
The core element of the sonic youth sound is 1) constantly trying arbitrary tunings 2) having no idea what a guitar set-up is or why you'd want one. I mean they usually have lots of fret buzz and no sustain to speak of. Don't get me wrong they sound amazing, it's just not remotely trad'.
In the studio, SY used a lot of esoteric pawn shop gear.When I saw them live, -when 80% of their fans lived in NYC, - they were all about the tunings and Fender Twins maxed out.There just weren't that many real options as far as pedals, ,- Muffs, Rats, Micro Amps, basic modulations, and time based, - it was the lo fi signal denigration that did most of the work. Like trying to cut through soup.
love the channel but this is way off. they really didn't use many effects. all you need is a loud amp and a dimed distortion/fuzz for the noise segments. they also used delay on later stuff and sometimes wah but pretty much only for noise
While there are exceptions (notably the Diamond Sea) most of the "phasing: sound you hear on their records comes from the fact that they tuned multiple strings to the same pitch but had them all just slightly off from each other.
Basically it would be using tuning such as F# F# F# F# E B, Wah, Rat, Big Muff, Octave Fuzz, Delays and others - be creative, but mainly use really cool minimalistic tunings that allow droning etc
I have to explain to so many nerds why Sonic Youth was significant to the grunge scene. I start by pointing out that they got Nirvana signed but then they say: “ye but the music isn’t grunge”. Have they ever listened to Sonic Youth. Sure, compared to later grunge, it’s a little bit more noise rocky, no wavey or shoegazey (depending on the record) but that doesn’t remove them from grunge. In their ethos, in their compositions, in their fashion, in their timbres, they were grunge. Practically every band but Nirvana weren’t “grunge” 100% of the time. It’s just a marketing term with some vague connection to musical style. Soundgarden is commonly seen as grunge even though they have a bigger metal influence than most bands. It’s ridiculous how some nerds think.
Grunge is a pretty ridiculous term to describe a bunch of bands that maybe had connections with one another, but were musically often very different. I think grunge describes a style and a period of time much more so than it describes a style of music.
@@ReadyMindsetGo I think Kim and Kelley Deal summed it up best: Interviewer: You were the centre of the whole sorta grunge thing but, looking back, what do you think of that? Kim: I didn’t know I was thought to be grunge but obviously it is a marketing term made up to sell advertising- is it because I don’t brush my hair? Interviewer: Pretty much ye Kim: It is, it is. Interviewer: I didn’t wanna say Kim: It is. (To Kelley)see I told you we should’ve brushed our hair! ruclips.net/video/JPeJOQiiWyc/видео.htmlsi=-5wUyT_1lWhK5PzJ
I get in the Sonic Youth ballpark just using a Rat, maybe a subtle (but not too subtle) chorus and/or doubler to sort of emulate the sound of the alternate tuning with multiple strings the same note. Really if you listen, they don't use a ton of effects and it really is the weird tunings getting the sound most of the way there. I think they also used Big Muffs on occasion, Rats for sure and maybe the occasional delay - depends on what era you're going for. Late era more effects obviously but early on the weirdest thing they had was the rare Wah-wah, and maybe a phaser. Also reverb - I'm not sure who exactly but I've heard some spring reverb on live recordings. Go for feedback and play that guitar with a screwdriver.
You can sound like Sonic Youth even on an acoustical guitar. Just tune all strings to the same note plus maybe one string half tone apart, and another in fifth or fourth and play dissonant half tone intervals on a simple drone or power chord. You can play behind the bridge if you play an offset fender guitar model or add a pen or drum stick at an angle to make things sound even more dissonant. And their song structures and artistic choices were borrowed from Glenn Branca, as the guitarists were part of that ensemble for a while before forming Sonic Youth. Listen to Glenn Branca - Lesson No. 1 For Electric Guitar, you would think it is a Sonic Youth song.
Funny cause they use a phase 90 but at a fast rate when they actually use it... the phase 90 in this recording really made it sound less like sonic youth.
Aahh yessss. Sonic Youth in the early 80s...tones built from classic pedals for $20-$50, and Jazz masters for $150-$300. Don't get me wrong , I enjoy a bunch of their music. Can't do that in 2022.
He’s not playing a sonic youth song, he’s emulating a specific era of sonic youth but it’s just a jam. Sonic youth is a band that reinvent their sound with each album. If you wants songs that sound like this jam, then albums like Goo(1990) and Dirty(1992) is what your looking for. These albums were sonic youth exploring more conventional song structures and taking influences from the alternative rock scene at that time with bands like Dinosaur Jr and the burgeoning grunge scene.
He rarely plays actual songs in these videos, I think he played smells like teen spirit at least once but that's the only time I can think where he did a straight cover
sonic youth's sound is much more than a couple of pedals, it much more about the way they play
EXACTLY. You could put their guitars directly to amps and they would be Sonic Youth, crearly.
You can set up 1000 pedals, you will not become Sonic Youth.
Yeah agreed the way they play is unmistakable
yeah and the tunings too and all their drumstick stuck under the strings type stuff
They used lots of alternative tunings, when they would play live they’d all change guitars nearly every song in the 90s and 00s at least
Its tunings.
Taught me EVERYTHING about octaves and unisons
This sounds like the Foo Fighters trying to write a Sonic Youth song
i wonder if that EVER happened hmmmm must have taken the LONG hmmm ;)
He knows. Yeah everlong is okay @charlielomonaco
Grohl is pretty certain he stole the riff for ever long from sonic youth
Love ya, but I really didn't get Youth from that...
Try using your ears.
@@LiquidSoulfly this is absolutely not the sonic youth tone
@@yoelcapoful Are you sure? This doesn't sound like something from a band that had a massive variety of tone? Puhhhlease.
@@LiquidSoulfly I mean, they tried a giant amount of different tones, but this is not representing the fuzzy essense of SY.
I'm gonna weigh in and say it didn't seem right either
What is more important to emulate is the variety of alternative tunings.
You don't really "emulate" tunings. You just do them. And if you're talking about emulating a sound, tone is way more important than tuning.
@No_ Problem you have to use the tunings to get the tone its the biggest part
@@dulled9528 that doesn’t make any sense; it may mildly effect the tone because of string tension but when I go to open G from Standard I don’t change the settings on my amp or pedals and the tone dosent change just the tuning so explain to me how the Tuning will be the main factor in the tone for a SY song like “Dirty Boots”?
@Cool Hand Luke If you don't have the tuning the chord voicing are different therefore the tone changes
@@dulled9528 just move fingers better
Its thier TUNINGS!!!!
The Youth taught me EVERYTHING I kno about octaves and unisons
Sounds good, but it is not Sonic Youth-Sound.
Apologies for being a wet blanket, but SY didn't use many fx. It's alternate tunings (that create the chorus effect) and cranking amps. Yes, later on my favorite guitarist Ranaldo used a lot of delay, but that's kinda it.
Hmmm well this sounds better than SY so...
And I think the bass player Kim Gordon was really the only one who used phasers. Thurston had one but he mostly just used his Turbo Rat, Jimi Hendrix Octave Fuzz, and Sovtek Muffs. The phaser was like a filler effect in his chain.
As stated, this video is on how to emulate a sound not how to copy it. But your point ist true :)
Exactly...their haunting tone came from their use of dissonance mixed with unison string tunings (e.g. 6 strings tuned to 2 or 3 notes)
@@IndecisionTelevision Fail. But I guess people are entitled to believe Taylor Swift is better than Joni Mitchell...erroneously.
ummmm...... not quite, Josh but e for effort (or is that eeeffects?). phaser on the whole time? seriously? lol
😅😅😅 Lee you're the best
Love that you weighed in on this. To me SY’s legacy has nothing to do with gear, everything to do with a diy punk attitude, but genre agnostic, and a spirit of experimentation. It’s ideas, fingers on instruments. Like go find whatever cheap guitar is available and commit to making your own very personal kind of noise with it.
I guess the questionable phaser decision was more of a Diamond Sea attempt
Holy shit Lee it’s actually you this is hilarious
Tunings more than peddles.
Just like Soundgarden.
Wanna sound like Sonic Youth? Make up your own guitar tunning. Then plug into anything.
Now tune everything to C except one string to B, play behind the bridge and talk/sing, PS I fudging well ADORE Sonic Yoof x
Jazzmaster, neck pickup, clean loud amps and several alternate tunings, that's it. Some of their pedals were the Big Muff and the Ibanez Analog Delay, and several phasers, which was a prominent effect in a bunch of songs, and live performances, but 80% of their songs were just guitar>amp.
I hope we are getting a deep dive video on Sonic Youth, one of my all time favorite bands
That would be awesome!
A good place to start would be their interview with nardwuar
we don't talk about that one@@danltg
I am a giant Josh/JHS fan, but I have 2 quibbles: 1. Sonic Youth started in 1977 as part of NYC's "no-wave" scene, not 1981, and 2. while they used some FX later on (I saw them in '87 and Lee used a Boss DD beautifully), the key to their tone is their wacky tunings and extreme volume.
The only thing I will disagree with you on is the date. They formed 1981, they were separately around the scene in the 70s but they didn’t become Sonic youth till 81.
1981 is correct
@@leeranaldo9776 thank you, Lee! It is good to get my facts straight, and better still to get my schooling from your own bad self. I must have misunderstood that Guitar Player article. Apologies to Josh, who is among other things a great historian.
@@SonicRave1 thank you! I learned the lesson that I am always telling others: we mustn’t presume to “correct” others unless we are sure we’re actually correct, and in this case I got my history all messed up.
@@SonicRave1 they were around since 1980 around a series of different names like Male Bonding or the Arcadians, which was before when Lee joined in '81
I saw Sonic Youth in Manchester . 45 guitars on stage. All tuned differently... and lots of amps. Lots.
Yay, Sonic Youth ☺️ Great band. I suppose they have all the pedals on their shelf like you have. Your snippet sounds very nice 👍
I mean, they have their effects pedals on a shelf according to that earthquaker video lee was in
A super influential band, on my own playing, but also on so many later bands. Best show I ever saw was Sonic Youth in Atlanta after Daydream Nation. One of the worst was Sonic Youth in New Jersey, Goo. But it was a fabulous disaster so worst in a fascinating way.
dude tab this PLEASE that sounded insane‼️
Note unisons with very slightly difference in pitch (aka beating) is probably the single most important component to the SY guitar sound
The biggest part of the sound is the tuning. There are very good interviews to Thurston Moore where he explains how they got into alternate tuning and how that affects the sounds. Particularly there is an STS - Train Sessions - Thurston Moore video where you see him play Schizophrenia with almost just a bit of drive and sounds 100% Sonic Youth.
Like a lot of people have mentioned its their tunings that make them sound like sonic youth, playing behind the bridge on Jazz/Jaguar guitars, but they did heavily rely on effects too to create the soundscapes. Take the Diamond Sea for example, it was the Ludwig phase II that gave them the sound on that song without it, it wouldn't be the same
Great job. Don't forget the small amp love
The core element of the sonic youth sound is
1) constantly trying arbitrary tunings
2) having no idea what a guitar set-up is or why you'd want one. I mean they usually have lots of fret buzz and no sustain to speak of.
Don't get me wrong they sound amazing, it's just not remotely trad'.
In the studio, SY used a lot of esoteric pawn shop gear.When I saw them live, -when 80% of their fans lived in NYC, - they were all about the tunings and Fender Twins maxed out.There just weren't that many real options as far as pedals, ,- Muffs, Rats, Micro Amps, basic modulations, and time based, - it was the lo fi signal denigration that did most of the work.
Like trying to cut through soup.
love the channel but this is way off. they really didn't use many effects. all you need is a loud amp and a dimed distortion/fuzz for the noise segments. they also used delay on later stuff and sometimes wah but pretty much only for noise
Yet that sounded nothing like Sonic Youth.
While there are exceptions (notably the Diamond Sea) most of the "phasing: sound you hear on their records comes from the fact that they tuned multiple strings to the same pitch but had them all just slightly off from each other.
Basically it would be using tuning such as F# F# F# F# E B, Wah, Rat, Big Muff, Octave Fuzz, Delays and others - be creative, but mainly use really cool minimalistic tunings that allow droning etc
I have to explain to so many nerds why Sonic Youth was significant to the grunge scene. I start by pointing out that they got Nirvana signed but then they say: “ye but the music isn’t grunge”. Have they ever listened to Sonic Youth. Sure, compared to later grunge, it’s a little bit more noise rocky, no wavey or shoegazey (depending on the record) but that doesn’t remove them from grunge. In their ethos, in their compositions, in their fashion, in their timbres, they were grunge. Practically every band but Nirvana weren’t “grunge” 100% of the time. It’s just a marketing term with some vague connection to musical style. Soundgarden is commonly seen as grunge even though they have a bigger metal influence than most bands. It’s ridiculous how some nerds think.
Grunge is a pretty ridiculous term to describe a bunch of bands that maybe had connections with one another, but were musically often very different. I think grunge describes a style and a period of time much more so than it describes a style of music.
@@ReadyMindsetGo I think Kim and Kelley Deal summed it up best:
Interviewer: You were the centre of the whole sorta grunge thing but, looking back, what do you think of that?
Kim: I didn’t know I was thought to be grunge but obviously it is a marketing term made up to sell advertising- is it because I don’t brush my hair?
Interviewer: Pretty much ye
Kim: It is, it is.
Interviewer: I didn’t wanna say
Kim: It is. (To Kelley)see I told you we should’ve brushed our hair!
ruclips.net/video/JPeJOQiiWyc/видео.htmlsi=-5wUyT_1lWhK5PzJ
The only band that was 100% grunge was Mudhoney, and yet never took music seriously enough to make it big.
I get in the Sonic Youth ballpark just using a Rat, maybe a subtle (but not too subtle) chorus and/or doubler to sort of emulate the sound of the alternate tuning with multiple strings the same note. Really if you listen, they don't use a ton of effects and it really is the weird tunings getting the sound most of the way there. I think they also used Big Muffs on occasion, Rats for sure and maybe the occasional delay - depends on what era you're going for. Late era more effects obviously but early on the weirdest thing they had was the rare Wah-wah, and maybe a phaser. Also reverb - I'm not sure who exactly but I've heard some spring reverb on live recordings. Go for feedback and play that guitar with a screwdriver.
They also use drone tunings and other strange tunings, these contribute to their riffs and overall sound more than any guitar, amp, or pedal IMO
Love that sound
Theres a BULL IN THE HEATHER os why they sound so rad! LMADO
Josh would have seen the Pearl Jam tour with Sonic Youth opening if he ever saw them. That happened, by the way.
Angels are dreaming of you
Caught the whole video... loved the performances and tones🎸🤘🎸🤘
Alternate tunings are another secret
You can sound like Sonic Youth even on an acoustical guitar. Just tune all strings to the same note plus maybe one string half tone apart, and another in fifth or fourth and play dissonant half tone intervals on a simple drone or power chord. You can play behind the bridge if you play an offset fender guitar model or add a pen or drum stick at an angle to make things sound even more dissonant. And their song structures and artistic choices were borrowed from Glenn Branca, as the guitarists were part of that ensemble for a while before forming Sonic Youth. Listen to Glenn Branca - Lesson No. 1 For Electric Guitar, you would think it is a Sonic Youth song.
what sonic youth song sounds like this?
Use a b string instead of the high E to perfect alt tuning
Goo by Sonic Youth is one of my all time favorite albums
that drummer is insane!
Funny cause they use a phase 90 but at a fast rate when they actually use it... the phase 90 in this recording really made it sound less like sonic youth.
Also, you need Josh's artistic sensibility to play stuff that sounds like something SY would create. Good luck.
Nice done!!!
What jazzmaster is that! What's cool as shit!!!
this isn’t an emulation of sonic youth, it’s an emulation of 100% off of dirty by sonic youth
what 100? are you listening to?
@@dds4585 the one off dirty
There's no phaser in 100%
That sounds good Josh. I think one of the big things with Sonic Youth was the open tuning that give it that extra tone umpf.
I never liked sonic youth but now i kind of appreciate thier use of effects thanks to Josh. That is a really cool combination of sounds.
OK i’m getting the crayon!
Aahh yessss. Sonic Youth in the early 80s...tones built from classic pedals for $20-$50, and Jazz masters for $150-$300. Don't get me wrong , I enjoy a bunch of their music. Can't do that in 2022.
Digitech stuff is always fun and weird. Awesome sounds in this vid. Good jam
Jazzmasters, crazy tunings, and lots of noise
Sonic youth is so fking bad ass!!!!
And Literal Drills
did they use jhs pedals? they definitely used SitoriSonics harem fuzz, bass fuzz, and brownies and cream....
I’m going to stop you there.
Mr Epp >> Green River >> Mudhoney.
That’s how Grunge happened.
What song
Can someone please tell me where to find Josh's music to listen to. I absolutely adore the way he plays guitar.
You can look us up on Bandcamp or on RUclips at JHS Fresh Clips!
@@jhspedals super jawsome
What is that song
Fuck Yeah Bro!!!
You are Cool!!
make some noise
A nice attempt but up the atonals if ya wants that tone the youth is all aboot! 😂
I've been a Sonic Youth fan since the first cassette demo "Sonic Death-Live". (horrible cassette)
song name?
Holy shit That was great
Sounds like phaser youth
❤
It's close anyway.
Alt tunings and half broken guitars can't be emulated well
Does Josh know this stuff because he makes pedals and can recognize the sounds, or does he actually know the bands and what they use?
Both, or as people often say...
... Yes. 🤔
You guys sounded great here…. How about post a full length 😊
That was fire
What part of Sonic Youth did this sound like?
Gonna have to give you an F on this one
Like how he skipped 80s sonic Youth lol. Guess putting forks under his strings is too dangerous
Sounds absolutely nothing like SY, is there something defective with your hearing?
what song is he jamming or is it improv? I dont really know much about Sonic Youth but I want to jam on that song it sounds sick
Let me know when you find out hahaha
@@emilyogden884 what is the SONG????
He’s not playing a sonic youth song, he’s emulating a specific era of sonic youth but it’s just a jam. Sonic youth is a band that reinvent their sound with each album. If you wants songs that sound like this jam, then albums like Goo(1990) and Dirty(1992) is what your looking for. These albums were sonic youth exploring more conventional song structures and taking influences from the alternative rock scene at that time with bands like Dinosaur Jr and the burgeoning grunge scene.
He rarely plays actual songs in these videos, I think he played smells like teen spirit at least once but that's the only time I can think where he did a straight cover
I forgot how much I LOVE JHS. I've been in the Anime/manga YT for a year .gotta come back
I love you Josh, but that sounded nothing like SY
The Echo Plus is awesome.
I got tons of miles out of the Digitech PDS pedals in the early 90’s.
Sounds cool but it doesn't sound like Sonic Youth. You'd be better off just using the two lowest strings tuned the same with no pedals.
Awesomeness❤
Didn’t get any Sonic Youth outta that
1981??? Lolllll
They caused drugs to exist?
You need experimental tunings - not pedals.
Um, no.
Sorry Josh. Thurston Moore you are not 😂
yeah what did u just play?? sounded nothing like SY
ok sorry
2 out of 5
I think your tuning is not weird enough, you need more ostrich style tunings
Does not sound even a little bit like Sonic Youth
Hot take, that sounded cooler than most sonic youth I’ve heard.
Sounds A LOT like them.
Not at all.
mmmm....nope
Uh... Far far from it... The best sonic youth pedal is detuning your strings and playing unisons
that ruled
I’ve never liked Sonic Youth. I like some of Lee Ranaldo songs, like Mote
Why would you want to demystify anything?
Lol
Fortunately sonic does not sound like that ... At all ...