Street Epistemology: Elissa | Faithful Jehovah's Witnesses
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2015
- San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 6 March 2015
Uploaded: 6 March 2015
Twitter: / magnabosco
Facebook: / magnabosco210
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Elissa is a Jehovah's Witness and attends meetings three times a week. If science were to show that scriptures, archaeology, etc were not supernatural, she would still believe by faith, which she defined as "the assured expectation of things not seen".
I got the impression that Elissa became uncomfortable near the end of the talk when faith came up, but she clearly indicated that she was done with the conversation before we could explore that.
I'd love to run into Elissa again with more time so we could examine the reliability of that method in determining truth.
I can only imagine what progress I could have made with ten more minutes.
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The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
As a former JW, I can tell you that another 5 minutes would likely not make any difference. She has been programmed to never admit ANY level of doubt, even if she happened to secretly harbor some. Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the intellectual freedom to really examine any idea that may contradict the teaching of the Watchtower Society. I enjoyed the video though! Keep up the good work, Anthony!
That is a very interesting insight. Do you think she ran off because she had another engagement, or because the conversation was uncomfortable? Also, what do you think my chances are that, if she sees me again, we would have an honest conversation about faith?
Anthony Magnabosco Here in Charlotte, with have an agnostic and Atheist group. What I have heard from former JW, the most favored technique of this Christian religion is to never ever question "the" faith in Jehovah.. If you do, the immediate separation of friends and family will occur to that individual. If you ever meet her again and she talks to you, would be impressive in itself.
@Lamar Thanks for the advice. I'll consider that a challenge worthy of taking up. I really hope to run into Elissa again when she has more time.
Lamaar Steadman JW's do not believe in the triune god. therefore aren't an official
denomation of Xtianity, as accepted by the Church.
As an ex JW I can tell you that JW's are expected to fully believe any teaching that is handed down from the leadership. If they question anything they could possibly face disfellowshipping (shunning). If they outright disagree with any teaching they will get shunned. They respond best to honest questions about faith. If you are too aggressive they see it as an attack and it just reinforces their already strong persecution complex. Thank you very much for this video.
I have to say Anthony I am simply astounded and amazed by how you hold your tongue and stay calm when religious people make claims such as their religion being "proven" by science. Major kudos, keep up the great work.
Oh please. This man is anything but genuine.
@@ucanliv4ever What do you mean by "genuine"?
Luv 4ever: you are genuine: a genuine ass.
@@ucanliv4ever he didn’t say genuine he said calm.
No shit Sherlock, he didn't say that. I said it. He's as phony as a 3 dollar bill.
Why is it that people can see that faith has led other people to the wrong god, but yet not admit that they also could be wrong?
AWESOME VIDEOS!! 😁
I recently got disfellowshipped from Jehovah's Witnesses for not believing that the Watchtower Society is the true religion anymore, after having been born and raised in it.
Now i have lost my family because they consider me an "apostate" for not keeping quiet as to why i left.
VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR CHANGING YOUR BELIEFS!
😢
Andy Mackey sorry to hear that man. It's never easy. I'm not even disfellowshipped but I am being shunned by Mr family and they think I am mentally diseased because I try to tell the real truth about the organisation.
Fenrir the god eater
Thanks bro.
I'd love to talk with you sometime.
Did you get a chance to see my videos???
ruclips.net/video/VYoBWZ-2Fs8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/FXVUHBefJZQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/kIORehhq-RE/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/y9hBKIna3sY/видео.html
Andy Mackey I'll check them out.
Hey Andy.
Do you regret losing your faith?
I mean, there is this question about is it moral to cause a man to lose his faith in god if it means he might lose ties to his family and friends etc.
I know ppl who left religion, but not their family so they arent the right ppl to ask. But you DID suffer a loss. was it worth it?
And if it is, than why?
@@adarwinterdror7245 Would you rather live a lie to suit other people who do not value your own belief ? If they do not love you for who you are, rather than what you believe, then fuck them anyway! That's their problem not yours!
The smugness here was really hard to watch. As a former JW, I remember having that same smug self assured "I already have all the answers while running away" attitude. Keep up the good work Anthony.
JW is one of the most destructive cults. I noticed, when the world comes up with a new liberal law or anything that disproves other religions/denominations, JW immediately goes back to its “new world scripture” or one of those magazines and revises its older beliefs in order to keep its members away from the external sources that might open their eyes
For instance, folks start hating the idea of the hell as ultimate punishment, so, you won’t find hell in their publications; the world hates the Catholic Church, they immediately point out that many JW members were imprisoned during ww2 “unlike the pope that collaborated with Hitler”; people get confused by the trinity bullshit and they decided to distance themselves from the notion of god/son/spirit and made Jesus analogous to a Bronze Age superman, second to god but not god. That’s the main reason why it’s so frustrating to debate them. Unlike other Christians, they are constantly fed by those lies through their publications and remain shut down and alert in order to not get shunned
People are amazingly gullible. I really hate when these guys say "Its scientifically proven"
Jason camenzind yea I’d love to see the peer reviewed paper that says jehovah dun it as an explanation to anything.
My mum says mediums have been scientifically proven. I laugh and tell her where’s the proof. She can’t prove lol. I think because she sees mediums on tv somehow it’s proof. Lol I even tell her she’s not catholic cause she doesn’t follow their rules lol
@@DoubleDe Good job 😁👍 do whatever helps your mom believe in reality instead of lies I'm sure she will thank you.
My mom is a christian has schizophrenie, high ego and the never wrong mentality. That's impossible.
the "science" comes from their own publications where they might reference something taken terribly out of context, not that they ever check the references.
Especially, when minutes later, science is completely discarded. Makes no sense and yet, I think everyone, except her gets why she's doing it.
Brilliant! Love the death threat at the end.
I was wondering if anyone else caught that, lol!
I don't think I've ever let one get that close. May have been one in Leicester...
Kyle B yeah I noticed that as well.
It's not a death threat. It's a loving warning. Like a sign next to a waterfall: danger...
@@ucanliv4ever Excuses excuses.
"I believe X because of A, B, and C."
"So, if A, B, and C disproved X, would you still believe X."
"Yes!"
🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
Because F is more important to her. We need to attack F.
You must ask A,B,C ~ why they disapproved X.
Do not believe blindly. There must be some reasons why they disapproved X.
Kim yong Cheng: what are you talking about??
@@kimyongcheng6551 not disapprove, disprove. Semantics that change the statement's significance.
I feel like I was very fortunate that my parents separated when I was a kid, causing my mom to take a break from going to JW meetings (a break that never ended), giving me an opportunity to explore my doubts and result in my not becoming this woman, which I bet is what would have happened had I stayed in that religion. I'm so glad I didn't become so entrenched in those beliefs, I wouldn't have been able to question them. My parents' separation was the catalyst for my becoming an atheist. Silver linings, am I right?
Please talk to more JW'S! It's interesting this patience and technique you got..
5:40 " ..everyone will eventually know it..." said with a big burn in hell smile .. disgusting that people want that to be true.
Coming from a former JW, I can tell you that I think for most of the indoctrinated, it's all about their ego and having picked the right "team". They can't wait to be standing over a bunch of dead bodies after their apocalypse and say, "I told you so".
Every religion believe they have the right religion every Christian l speak to believe that they are the one. Let god be the judge. Witnesses believe what everyone one else believes that they are the ones.
I am genuinely fascinated at how often people tout "science" then in a short moment later completely disregard "science" for the exact same topic in the exact same context.
@@r0b0gam3r9
Fallible: capable of making mistakes or being erroneous
Books cannot be "infallible" as books are inanimate objects that do not take actions.
A book can certainly be inerrant.
I happen to possess a book that is without error and contradicts the bible on many topics.
How can we best determine which book is true?
@@r0b0gam3r9
1. The bible is most certainly a book.
2. I did not say anything about any errors in the bible. I said I have another inspired book. I want to know how do we best determine which book is correct?
3. Your claims are only claims. What is the best way to verify each other's claims?
@@r0b0gam3r9
1. The Bible is certainly a book.
2. You are making claims about the source of the book.
3. You are making claims about the accuracy of the book.
4. I have a book that says something different than your book. It has no internal mistakes and it is inspired.
How can we best verify each other's claims?
@@r0b0gam3r9
1. You do not seem to understand, your claims are irrelevant.
2. Your method of communication is potentially driving people from Jehovah. You are potentially responsible for damning people to a separation from god if it exists.
3. Will you please answer my question?
The two of us have claims.
How can we best determine which of us is correct?
Prettymuch everything she said was cliche expressions that all Jehovah's Witnesses are drilled in, she never went off-script.
It was your off-script questions which made her uncomfortable.
Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that thinking & questioning is one of the ways that Satan gets into your mind. So as soon as they see someone who wants them to do that - they see you as Satan trying to attack them.
It's understandable why someone would get so uncomfortable, if that's how they see you.
The supernatural world is quite real & terrifying to Jehovah's Witnesses. They live everyday in the belief that there are demons behind every corner - singling them out as targets - trying to trip them up. They don't even trust logic, believing that everything can be manipulated, basically like Rene Descart's _genius malignus_ concept (read the wiki on that). It's a terrifying existence :(
I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but I had the character flaw of an enquiring mind that loved science and thirsted for answers. When I found incongruence in biblical scripture, and the spiritual discourse we were given, I would ask my father (and hero) if he could help me reconcile the contradictions. If he could not, he would get elders to come and talk to me. I never sought to discredit the religion, just to assuage my uncertainty and help re-establish my faith. I was sure that there was a good scriptural answer to each contentious query I wanted threw at them. It was their shepherding role to set us straying sheep right, with the unshakeable good word, but increasingly, upon failing to reach a logical conclusion to many a spiritual query, I would inevitably be told that Satan was poisoning my mind, like the snake with Eve in the garden of Eden, and that I just had to take some things on faith, where reason mightn't initially prevail. Really? Logic was Satan's mind poison? For a mind so logic-driven, this never sat well with me, especially knowing that the entire Jehovah's Witness movement had been founded by a Pastor, who questioned the dogmatic interpretation of the period, and set about a reformation movement. The movement was founded on the understanding that belief is susceptible to faltering because of idiomatic interpretation, which required periodic reevaluation upon finding scriptural interpretations that appeared patently contradictory. Pastor Russell's questioning was divine inspiration, while mine was Satan-inspired. It was a long and hard process, to leave the religion, my family adhere to, but a necessary one, to remain true to myself, but I found the strength to leave, and now I'm an atheist in a professional role where an enquiring nature is sought after - data analysis.
thank you so much for sharing. I would like to Hope that everything is cool between you and your family at least. reading through Anthony's comments sections to his videos is incredibly sobering sometimes. but especially in the Jehovah's Witnesses conversations. what you said about the founding of that religion being based on someone being unconvinced by the mainstream View was wonderfully telling about hypocrisy that you had to face. I wish you all the best going forward in the new year. Cheers, from Toronto.
@@sujoygupta5264 Thanks Sujoy, there will always remain some evident frictions caused by my decision to be an unbeliever. However, when family matters bring us together, I try to be civil and understanding in all my interactions with them despite my atheist path. I have my own little family now, so I teach my kids to see man's own hand in the good, bad or indifference with which they treat each other, and not the influence of mythological beings, conjured from ancient minds. Minds who reconciled things they couldn't fathom through the lens of fantastical fireside stories - as was practical for their time of extreme technological limitation. I my kids to relish scientific discovery, instead of fearing it as a competitor to their current sense of the world - to always be hungry for knowledge and to discover their own philosophical truths.
This is effectively the sort of talk I would have with my mom. The best ways to deal with this I've seen so far is to show her how respectful atheists can be in life--I think the effect is subtle enough to get through.
i hope she is not an educator.
everyone in jw are educator 😢
"Everyone will eventually know it," is JW speak for "when Jehovah brings Armageddon and you all are begging for mercy, you'll know we were right."
They have a song about this: "Then They Will Know."
JW Awake Yep. All of us ex-JWs know exactly what she was saying. It was a not-so-thinly-veiled death threat.
There's a point where a Jehovah's Witness will give up seeing you as a potential convert, and start seeing you as plausibly possessed by the devil. (i wish i were joking)
She probably got to that point, and thought her best way to escape was to quote biblical threats. Don't take it too personally, it wasn't really directed at you as a person, she was talking to the devil.
JWs go into all religious situations as salesmen. So for her script to be utterly ineffective, and to feel that someone was actually trying to sell HER something instead, was not a situation she wanted to be in.
They do have this certain turn of phrase, don't they?
Also, ask them about pyramids...
I wonder 'how does it make her feel' knowing that she's working at an institution of higher education while being part of a religious organization that discourages its members from getting a higher education.
I was a witness for almost 7 years. She reminds me of how I was. It’s sad to see, really. I can’t blame her for not wanting her belief to be challenged. JW’s are taught to be very submissive and dismiss any and all doubt. Even looking at videos such as these are frowned upon. Im glad I had the nerve to see for myself how brainwashed I was. I would like see more JW’s be interviewed, should you come across any more.
We all know that JWs are the most difficult group to get them to revise their beliefs. They feel pride in their dedication to learning more about their bible and "researching" secular academia that agrees with the bible. When you asked her why she was confident, she answered as if you were talking about gravity or evolution. Maybe if we show some of our cards (don't play ignorant) and praise them for their dedication to research, we can better establish rapport. Maybe we could talk to them about how they research and determine that its compatible. She brought up prophecies as well, maybe you can use the outsider test for that.
Great work, Anthony! I really appreciate what you're doing and just as importantly...how you're doing it.
Thanks! If you haven’t alreeady, try watching some of my more recent examples :)
Anthony, you are f..ing good at asking those questions. Too bad the people you talking to don’t get the hint! Good job Anthony!!!!!
We really shouldn't get upset when these people say it's been scientifically proven. It's not their fault they've been lied to. If you're in a tight-knit cloud your entire life, and it's all you know, it's difficult to dig yourself out from under it, especially when you don't know which way is up. Some people manage, but not everyone can. Some people spend their entire lives digging, but set out in the wrong direction, so they dig the hole further.
I think she walked away, because she could feel that this conversation was attacking her programming, and she did not want to find out what would happen if she actually questioned it.
Aaaaaaaargh! To have to ignore incorrect statements would drive me up the wall! * Deep breath * I fully understand why you do it this way and I applaud your efforts. Keep fighting the good fight.
"It's been proven scientifically", says the person that knows nothing about science.
It's been proven scientifically that scientifically ignorant theists say their religion has been proven scientifically.
the appeal to personal experience is tricky. many encounters i have had with people that immediately go on the defensive think that they are being attacked, like they feel that they are the religion and you recognize their faith or religion as just an idea. its a simple disconnect in train of thought. it can certainly be hard to bring someone soo dug in to appeal to reason but you are valiant in your efforts and i commend you sir. it has gotta be hard to not start plowing down strawmen lol keep it up brother :D
I think this is an excellent example of how intrinsically controlled the JWs are. They are very afraid (through mind conditioning) when they are being asked to think. This lady used a toolbox of quotes to answer each question until it got “dangerous”. As her arsenal of rehearsed and prepared answers were exhausted, she had to begin to engage in free-will thinking, her alarm bells went off and she cut off the conversation. This too has been trained. I really hope Anthony gets another JW to try SE with. Renee 🤗
That got a little uncomfortable at the end... I could tell, she was getting a negative inference in her words near the end.
+Marc Pollock She was not about debate Marc. The bible teaches us to be humble in our dealing with each other. There are only 2 roads in which we have a choice to travel, Wide and spacious and the narrow road. We are given free will to make a choice. The bible says only the humble will see the truth.
+Robert Kolakowski yeah, I hear what your saying... the only issue is this wasn't a debate, its called epistemology... and I'm sorry to inform you that the more we understand the human brain the more we discover free will is an illusion ... lastly I would say that we have no spiritual free will either....
YES we do. We have a choice in making our own decisions. Whether it is our way or God's way. But the bible tell us which way we should walk. If we decide to do it our way instead of God's way based on our fleshly desires. Then we have to be accountable by God. But he gives us the choice to follow his teachings or our imperfect thinking. ONLY way we are delusional is when we think that we do not have to be accountable for our actions by God. He gives us many chances to turn ourselves around, because he takes inconsideration that we are born of "sin" from our first parents..
+Robert Kolakowski Belief is not a choice, it's a compulsion. If God exists then he's doing a terrible job of revealing himself to people who would genuinely believe in him (but not necessarily worship) with compelling evidence. He must not want everyone to know about him. Supposedly, there are only 144,000 spots available in heaven anyway. I would have thought they would all be filled by this point. Is there some sort of turnover that occurs? Maybe someone could enlighten me on this point.
+Robert Kolakowski. It doesn't seem like there's really a choice, it's more like being held for ransom.
When someone is threatening you and your family with murder (at Armageddon), for even daring to THINK of questioning whether their authority is valid... Anyone is that situation would be forgiven for doing exactly as they are told. It'd be a terrifying way to live life :(
She is an example of the sort of person that was leading me in Sunday school as a child in a different faith...
It's so sad and for her and the people she has influence over
I remember having 3 women come to my door as jehovah's witness...I asked them quite respectfully how they reconcile their work with 1 Timothy 2:12. They had no idea what verse I was referencing and were somewhat shocked in their expression but wrote it off.... look it up and you'll see why they were shocked.
from 1 Timothy 2:12 New World Translation margin ), Man and Woman -A Dignified Role for Each
JEHOVAH GOD created Adam first, then Eve. Before Eve’s creation, Adam gained experience in living. During this time, Jehovah gave him certain instructions. (Genesis 2:15-20) Serving as God’s spokesman, Adam was to transmit these to his wife. Logically, then, he would take the lead in all matters involving worship.A corresponding arrangement exists in the Christian congregation, and we can benefit from an examination of it. The apostle Paul wrote: “I do not permit a woman . . . to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.” (1 Timothy 2:12, 13) This does not mean that a woman is to be completely silent at a meeting of the Christian congregation. She is to be silent in the sense of not getting into disputes with a man. She is not to belittle his appointed position or endeavor to teach the congregation. Men have been given the assignment of presiding over and teaching the congregation, but women add much to Christian meetings by participating in them in various ways.
Being in a safe and protected environment allows her to keep this faith she speaks of. Her faith would diminish in Saudi Arabia. Those answers she ask for would never pan out. Guaranteed!
This one is airtight locked! Absolutely nothing can deter her faith, she is a role model, plus that death threat she gave him at the end, that is the seasoning to the cake!
Her body language changed dramatically once you mentioned science disproving her god. She looks around, fidgets with her hands and is clearly suddenly uncomfortable to have her beliefs challenged.
Truly shows how blinding faith can be
Anthony I love street epistemology but I doubt it can work on most JW, the method needs some kinda heavy modification for them. I saw u on the John Cedars channel, and I'd be willing to change my mind if I see successful activism with JW using street epistemology. JW r too robotic and rnunder information control. They fear their own thoughts.
Religious people instantly blurting out "100%" when asked how sure they are of their particular beliefs is one reason I started questioning my own and allows me to instantly disregard theirs for their lack of courage.
Wow. If science proved it was not true she would still believe it. Where do you go from there?! Absolutely astounding. I'm speechless!
What is fascinating is the use of buzz-words like "works" and "revelation" etc. If a belief was genuine, people would be able to say-so in their own words. The common use (misuse?) of the term; "my own truth" is telling of overcompensation for doubt.
I would love to know what their confidence levels are on other things. Do they have less confidence the sun will rise the next day? What is something they have slightly less than god? I’m curious about their range. What if they have 100 percent confidence in everything.
Do these people deserve to question their faith? She is a kind woman and I believe that she has seen struggles in life. If she feels completed or at peace then I don't know that I could feel right trying to change that for her. Some people are just wired for it better. But I do appreciate the conversation, keep up the good work Anthony!
Elissa likely votes and will vote for the next forty years, cares what is taught to people in schools, and may even be raising children. Do you think she deserves to question her faith now?
Jehovah's witnesses don't vote. We don't serve in the military either.
Hey man love your stuff the true Socrates you are a true rebel i love your stuff not making wrong using fundamental logic question utmost respect and most of all giving value it's really astonishing really well done/ Leading the future, goddamn. Love it. This is the model.
It seems to be that whenever this notion of ‘personal experience ‘ arises, particularly when referenced in connection with individual trial and tribulation, and when almost inevitably this is then linked to ‘talking to God’ to seek advice etc. we could supplant almost anything in place of the word god(s) and the explanation would be no less plausible? It could be a lucky stone from the beach, your granny’s ashes, your favourite vinyl album from ‘66 etc.. Bonkers.
1:54 best part of the video is when the cat shows up in the far left of the screen.
"Everyone will eventually know it"... Oh god, knowing the kind of crazy shit JW's believe after hearing Telltale, you know she was thinking something like "when your body gets eaten by birds you will wish you got converted"
It's amazing how people think you can't see the air and then use it as an analogy to not being able to see a god.
Just tell them it's a bad analogy because we can in fact see the air. Lift up their eyes, that blue thing is actually air. If you compress air andake it liquid, you'd see it as a blue liquid. If you were release air under water, you'd see the bubbles of air coming up.
If there was 10% of the evidence that air exists backing up the claim that a god actually exists, I would start to heavily doubt my current beliefs.
I interviewed a JW that I met on the street, feedback would be appreciated.
If I remember correctly Boghossian stated that JW is more resistant to SE than other groups. I'm trying to figure out the best way to talk with them.
I was so excited to have one knock on my door this morning. I asked questions like Anthony instead of telling him what I don't believe and we lasted 20mins. He didn't answer directly but he surprisingly listened to my questions like who has the correct interpretations of the bible. I think it was positive and he wanted to come back next week.
i was here too. shame she didn't have longer, but then again maybe not. :)
That was kinda disturbing.
Anthony, I like how you get past attempts to show a belief is evidence based (archeology! discoveries! etc). I've found that many theists (including my former self) present such "evidences," but that is never really why they believe.
She seems relieved to leave, maybe either because she saw that you wouldn't be convinced or because she feared thinking about her faith.
Her body language says it all. Defensive, guarded .... and scared. Nice of her to give u 5 minutes. Great work. Thanks.
Wow, her answers were a whole 0.3 millimeters deep
As PIMO JW, we don't meet 3 times a week, we meet 2 times per week, we met 3 times per until about 15 years ago. Telling someone "I go to church every other day" gives a believer a false sense of security/superiority, that's her motivation for being dishonest, IMO.
Just to clarify a bit of 'dubtalk' here for the uninitiated.
PIMO = physically in, mentally out.
Generally, a non believer going through the motions to maintain ties with friends and family who are still in.
The mind often feels it has to go somewhere. Words and routine frequently aren't enough.
They consider their wt and public talk separate meetings. That's what she means.
Faith is the assured expectation of things not yet seen.
Faith is belief in the absents of evidence.
To believe in something wholeheartedly without the conclusive evidence to prove it right or wrong.
To believe in something just because it is the way it has always been taught or believed so, in the face of evidence for/against or the lack of facts/truths to back it up
You spelled absence wrong and you are misquoting the Bible.
"Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. " Hebrew 11:1 New World Translation
You spelled your name wrong as well.
Wow,,,,,That was me. My brain shut off
She states that prophecies from the bible have always come true. Is she totally unaware of the history of the Watchtower Society and all of their failed predictions? It seems incredible she could say something like that, but then the organisation has rewritten it's own history airbrushing any such embarrassments from the story. Despite the fact that most of this information is readily available on the internet these days it seems members just happily believe what they are told.
I like how it n 5 minutes she went from saying her religion was true because of things you might take seriously to admitting it is really faith is why she believes and that those things don’t really matter to her.
What would have happened if someone asked her if she is allowed to ask questions and have her own opinions about her own faith?
A. Vulcan I would imagine that she would likely become very defensive, more so than she is already here. But you never know.
Anthony Magnabosco
I see. Just thought that maybe by starting a step earlier she would talk as herself and not recite things.
Thanks for the great work you're doing!
I've learned a lot from your videos :))
Correct you don't know but you speculate freely toward the negative.
Everyone everywhere thinks they have the right religion. Everyone is free to think what they want. If you want a buffet style religion where anything goes I.e. Abortion, homosexuality then no, that is unacceptable.
Liv 4ever
Do you think that people need arbitrary prohibitions such as the one against homosexuality?
Doesn't matter what I think. It does matter what our creator thinks.
Recently discovered your channel through your interview with David Pakman, it's pretty sweet! I love the method. Seems like a much more fruitful endeavor than just confronting people. The range of beliefs I've seen so far on your channel is also quite impressive. Have you interviewed a Scientologist before?
DubZombie Hey there. Thanks for watching. To date, I don't believe I've ever spoken with a Scientologist on canera, but I am eager to.
Interesting approach, but it seems that jw shut their mind off when they realize you're not recruitable or sheepishly accepting their "truth".
Little off topic here, but i cant help but to stare at her presumably coffee cup and her lid that is not completely sealed.
+starbuckxks
Yes, of course. Thank you for pointing that out. Now it's clear why I was getting a subliminal "this woman isn't wrapped tight" message throughout her talk.
Oooh, started to get a little squirmy at the end as you narrowed down the reality of belief to faith.
I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are authentically Christian (they deny basic, plain requirements emphasized in the Bible). And I think Elissa's epistemology was generally a mishmash except for a couple of things. Fulfilled prophetic predictions in the Bible are a valid epistemological point to bring up, which she briefly did. Also, archaeological evidence that aligns with the Bible is a valid epistemological point. Her mistake, IMHO, was to say that IF science and other empirical fields proved that the Bible was false, she would still believe the Bible. That made her sound totally subjective. But I'm not sure she caught that point as it whizzed by; she did say she thought such a refutation was not going to happen. But pointing to fulfilled prophecy can be very strong epistemology (e.g., extraordinary Old Testament predictions with good evidence that they predated the events they precisely predicted). Unfortunately for JW's, their own "prophecies" have not fared as well as the Old Testament ones.
Think you have hit a stone wall there.
The mind is the hardest prison to escape.
She runs away because if she starts to think, the tower of false info glued together with logical fallicies begins to shake and that's painful
Wow!
Oh the wind...
"Manuscripts with gods name on it." Would that god have the initials of Joseph Smith ?
The force is strong in this one... however, who would ever want to be in a cult that does not allow you to ask ANY questions about their doctrines or past history...if you dare to you would be out and loose family and friends with their shunning policies. Yes it takes real “faith” to believe their message as it’s totally bonkers.
I am a cat person/lover, Cats are God, like that one behind her. Worship cats.
Too far gone and no way back! You spooked her when you said science😀 she actually looked around for help😀
Still waiting ⏳ for armageddon.
You won't survive so don't worry about it and that for real.
Hey Stanley, you really need to evaluate your humanity if you're ok with billions being slaughtered simply because they are not convinced your religion is the right one. Your comment is extremely disturbing.
It will never happen.. So yeah.. Long "wait". ;)
@@stanleywhite8813 lol. I wont survive the made up thing? OH no!!! I would be pissed if I survived and had to live with all you cult members. Holy shit that would be hell.
"Manuscripts with God's name on it"
Funny thing, Jehovah is a misspelling/mispronunciation of Yahweh that dates back to the 16th century ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah ).
"They found documents with God's name on it and everything!" Well that settles it for me.
It has been proven scientifically? Really?! Wow, I need to see that study like right now.
SUBBED....
Thank you!
funny when i prayed to god the answer was always no.....now i know why! lol.
She could not wait to get out of there
Looking at it from an objective view I don't see anything that would make her question her programming.
My family are Jehovahs witnesses and i found science while growing up.. The example with the wind is something i have heard from them also.. It's hard to talk with them.. But just asking questions like this and dont fall into the hole of stupidity and answering back might be better then to cut them off straight away and say YOU ARE WRONG! Even if it's satisfying showing facts, but they cant accept those so it's a waste of time.
@ 4.10 min
Everyone is 100%...
Isn’t this a bit of a ruse? Anthony always says he has been speaking with a bunch of people who all say they have the one true faith but almost all of his subjects are Christian and I doubt that a Hindu or Buddhist would even make such a claim.
Cinci Litigator Please meet Maheep: ruclips.net/video/BpCNamMVQa8/видео.html
Why didn't you ask how science had proved her religion? What aspects has science proved? I'd ask for peer reviewed literature...
I can understand how people that have done well can attribute and think that their god has been with them and helped them when it is really themselves that did it and through themselves they have achieved the good that they have. They could also argue that their god is actually in them in spirit and has guided them. They thing I really have trouble with is the Jesus thing. The whole idea just does not make sense. What does it mean that only thru Jesus you are saved? saved from what? The carrot that is held out is supposed to be fruitful when Jesus comes again and it advertises that even if you are dead you will come out of the grave and go to heaven to sit at the right hand of god. so what happens until that time comes as no one knows when that time is because the bible does not give any indication and there all predictions have been false, ie. the apocalypse in such and such years has not taken place and there has not been any second coming of Jesus. so what are the dead people doing while they are waiting? the second thing is, what is so great a benefit to being in heaven sitting at the right hand of god for all eternity. Why would anyone want to have anything last for all eternity. The whole concept of the second coming is that back in the day people knew nothing about biology and science and medicine and had tremendous superstitions about death and dying and what happened when we die and where are they going and that it is such a horrible thing for their love ones to go thru and will it hurt and will the dying/dead person feel anything. What is it like, what does it feel like, etc. So someone thought to quell this anxiety and create this great illusion that if you have faith and in your mind just say to yourself that you believe then everything will be wonderful. simple as that and your anxiety over death just disappears. science tells us that our tissues just turn to dust, the same dust that was created during the big bang as matter is neither created nor destroyed. The electrical energy data stored in our brains as "reality" simply disappears as there is no such thing as a soul. We had not awareness or reality or remembrance of ever being conceived and being born and we will have not awareness or reality or remembrance of dying and being dead. Do you have any awareness of reality or any recollection when we are put to sleep for surgery. No, we do not remember anything that went on. We are laying there thinking whatever thoughts then suddenly we wake up and we are in the reality again. There is no memory. There is no concept of time. We lose sight of time and space under anesthesia.
" the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all" Ecclesiastes 9:5 New World Translation
Bring an atheist is akin to believing that a sophisticated watch found in the middle of the desert “just appeared” there. Would anyone of an ounce of intellect believe that?? Absolutely not anyone with an ounce of knowledge would surely know that there must be an intelligent creator/designer behind that creation. Even if you never saw the designer of that watch you know he exists by looking at his creation.
I wonder if you can make use of this fact. 2/3 of all children at ages from 3 to 8 years old have created imaginary friends. Ask" what would they say to an 8 year old that had claimed for years that he had an imaginary dragon who protects him at night???" Just a thought--E
What a slacker. She didn’t even place any literature with you or arrange a return visit!
lol and so true.
Hope Jehovah keeps that lid on the coffee. He helps pioneers pay rent after all. But doesn’t prevent tsunamis ... hmmmm
Anthony IS THERE ONLY ONE TRUE RELIGION?
Jesus taught his followers only one religion, the true religion. It is like a road leading to everlasting life. Jesus said: "Few are finding" that road. (Matthew 7:14) God accepts only worship based on his Word of truth. All true worshippers are united in one faith.----John 4:23, 24; 14:6; Ephesians 4:4-6
1:58 Kitty
Why did Jehovah give you so many struggles? Does he hate you?
As an exJW she said something at the end that many people might have missed. Kind of JW code. She said "eventually everyone will know". This is what JW's teach, that god or Jehovah will change peoples hearts to turn on all "false" religion. "False" religion is any religion not named Jehovahs Witnesses. Once all of "false" religion is done away with people will begin to notice that there is still one religion that has not fallen. Yup, you guess it, its the JW's. At this point all will have to know, as this lady said, that I am Jehovah and these are my followers and it is now time for you to die. Once this happens it is too late for anyone to join the JW's and your fate has been sealed. But dont forget, God is Love and "Love Never Fails"
Claiming 100% certainty is just dishonest, ignorant and lacking in any sense of humility.
and then she was off... going to defend her place with the other JW'es to be one of the 144 000 chosen ones to go to paradise ...
Just saw this. JWs are losing followers and child abuse court cases. I wonder if she is still JW. She sure can spout the company line in this video.
Jehovah our God, exalted in might,
We at the Watchtower provide all your light.
The Governing Board standing so grand;
Forever proclaiming "At the cart you must stand!"
Your heavenly throne, your truth we proclaimed.
The end of the world for years we've exclaimed.
The stupid believe us - the light does go brighter,
The feeble believe us - and their purses are lighter.
Our meat in due season, the generation has died,
Many world endings publishers have cried!
Narcissistic people and low intelligent fools,
You believe what we say, swallowing our stools.
And now we pay millions to molested young,
The pioneers deluded as they swallow our dung.
Huh
again, another person who admits to finding god because of bad experiences in their personal life.
a shame she decided to join a cult to resolve her issues than work them out on her own. a copout?!
JWs are in-fact trained to seek out people who are in bad times in their life, because this is when they will be "most receptive" to their message.
Or the way a normal person would put it: When the person is emotionally compromised and unable to think rationally, this is when they are more likely to uncritically absorb an irrational religious message. Try to sneak it in while their mind's natural defenses are in disarray. :(
As a former JW I would like to have seen it go longer to see where that would have gone! It's a whole nother level of insanity!
This fundamentalist "religion" accepts that the god of the Watchtower murders during armageddon more than 100 million babies. They All crazy.