Street Epistemology: Emily | What is Life Without Faith?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 май 2018
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 18 May 2018
Released: 31 May 2018
Twitter: / magnabosco (follow me)
RUclips: / magnabosco210 (tons of Playlists)
Facebook: / magnabosco210 (like my page)
Website: anthonymagnabosco.com (contact me, appearances)
SE Resources: tinyurl.com/abm-se-resources
SE Community: tinyurl.com/abm-se-community
Audio Only: / s-uo7cx
Audio correction provided by Philipp Grzemba.
Encounters with other members of CRU:
tinyurl.com/PL-AM-SE-CRU
Encounters with Daniel (former CRU member):
tinyurl.com/PL-AM-SE-DANIEL
Encounters with people where faith comes up:
tinyurl.com/PL-AM-SE-FAITH
** Add foreign language captions w/RUclips's community contributions tools **
Summary: Emily explores her dependence on faith for concluding that the Christian God is real, and if it is as reliable as she thinks.
Recorded w/Go-Pro. Edited w/PowerDirector.
The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
#StreetEpistemology #Magnabosco #Faith #Christianity #Christian #CRU #AnthonyMagnabosco
Dear Emily, If you are reading this, you said that you can't fathom living life without faith. I hope you forgive me if I am mistaken, but you seem to be in love with the concept of faith.
There are two methods you could use to know the truth value of a claim. You could employ evidence and logic to scrutinize a claim for its truth value. Or you could use faith as a method to believe in a claim. Most likely, faith is used to believe in religion's supernatural claims that can't be proven empirically. Faith requires the believer to believe in supernatural claims, perhaps even, despite the lack of evidence.
So when you say you can't fathom living life without faith; it is like saying I can't fathom living life without believing in things despite the lack of evidence. From my vantage point, it seems that you are more in love with the methodology than the truth itself.
Dogmalogy I'm not trying to be rude, but there are many methods for evaluating the truth of a claim. Most of them are incomplete and have a variety of errors. Intuitionism (faith/common sense, etc) is normally rejected because it doesn't have the power to consistently determine truths. You can believe false things with intuitionism. I recommend you read the Oxford Handbook of Epistemology.
Dear Charles Betz, I agree. Faith and common sense are unreliable methods to reach the truth. If you carefully read my statement above you'll see I mentioned that.
Faith is nothing more than a realm of ignorance. There is no Truth or wisdom to be found in such a place only ignorance. The path to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant and the path to Atheist is littered with bibles. Faith happens to be the one method that just can not be used to evaluate truth, faith forces one to believe without evidence, this is not the path to truth or a reliable method of evaluating the truth.
Dogmalogy Christians are told that faith is a virtue, possibly the best and most important virtue. She truly believes that faith makes her a great person. The more faithful she is, the better she is. It's the perfect set up, really, because the more she buys without evidence, the better she is. Scary, really.
InterestsMayVary 4432
Absolutely its scary because that's how cults are formed..
“I would only die for him” that gave me the creeps knowing that so much blood was spilled throughout history for that precise concept. That highlights the important of these interventions. Great job Anthony!
@@jonahchickering4908 and also flashback to daily life under the rule of the church since 200 AD if you're a non-christian
@CDTV it's a thin line once someone is that indoctrinated. "Well, if you're going to die for him, then would it matter if you took 1 unbeliever with you, to SAVE him?" "OK, well, what about 3?" etc...
@CDTV Yes, you are right. I think the deeper question here is whether or not dying for a particular God is the best and wisest course of action. Millions of Christians throughout the course of history would say *yes*. But so also would millions of Muslims.
Then we have to ask ourselves even further - is there anything in this life worth dying for? If so, what criteria would a person use in order to justify this belief? I find it beneficial to probe into these matters in order to test my own beliefs
Deus vult! 😬
"I would die for him" is a small step from I would kill for him? After all he, as god, killed millions, endorsed slavery for millions, ordered and allowed human sacrifice. But, her brain won't go where her lord has been. YET?
Anthony, I've seen enough videos now to chuckle whenever you say "one last question" 😂😂😂
Very Columbo. :P
it's like the bizarro world equivalent at a debate when it gets to the Q&A "i have just one quick question for mr hitchens" 45 minutes later "let me put that in simpler terms" lol.
Anthony has redefined 1 as at least 2, that is the power of faith in SE! 😂
Dear Emily,
Life without faith, life is still extremely beautiful. Without the belief of an afterlife, every moment is precious. I'm a father, a friend, a musician, and I try to be a good person in the same way as you. Please don't think that all atheists and non-believers are unhappy. It's actually quite the contrary. I was battling depression and anxiety as a christian but since coming out of religion I've discovered a whole new level of self-esteem and strength that I had always been taught I didn't possess. Please rationally examine your views and find the path to truth. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wanting you to be sure.
Emily, I can respectfully assure you that I am not miserable since discarding my faith.
Tim Davis Amen!
i never had faith, particularly a god, i've been desperate, i've survived a car crash, i've been ecstatic and miserable (mainly though just cheerful) and never once attributed it to god, the thought of god never entered the equation. i hadn't really had any more idea of god than santa when at four i became atheist because god didn't answer my prayer to stop my parents fighting, and i've been self reliant ever since. the opposite of religion is self confidence. once you've been told you're going to hell (i was recently told i'll probably go to limbo, but as limbo has been abolished (how does that work?) i have the last laugh), but, you can't unhear that stuff, so i invented my own god, but usually in my prayers i threaten to give him a good kicking.
That’s because u love sin. I used to love sin too.
Jin p are u 100% sure about that?
@@flipping_for_funds Lying is a sin Timmy. Apparently you still love sin.
Emily seems very sweet and nice. It definitely sounded like she was taking this as an opportunity to evangelize rather than reflect on the source of her own beliefs, though. She sounded more on "transmit" than "receive". You may as well have said to her "I talked to someone who said that 2+2=5, and you say 2+2=4... how do I know who's right?" The notion that she's right was so deep and entrenched that the rest of the conversation is nonsensical. It's tough sledding to realize that faith to lead to incorrect conclusions. There are a lot of tightly tied knots to untangle.
Adman1974 Spot on! Emily initially wasn’t interested in chatting until she thought this was an opportunity to spread her faith and please her god. All she wanted to is convince Anthony to join her belief system and she completely missed the idea that she could consider whether her belief is true.
Her comment about people who “struggle with doubt.” Doubt is a good thing, not something to struggle with. “Ubi dubium, ibi libertas” (with doubt comes freedom).
@@privatepile762 that would be your assumption.
Emily, bearer of the Holy Spirit.
I didn't think she tried any harder to evangelize than she perceived he was evangelizing. Offering to pray for him was a little over the line, but it seemed to come from a sincere belief that she could do something good here, just as he felt that he could. I can't imagine having a thoroughly considered perspective such as hers and there being any chance that it could be foundationally shaken by this talk. I can be hopeful for her that she lets some of those logical challenges sink in a little and maybe take root. But to what end, I'm not certain. Hearing her talk about what has inspired her to "do good" and to be a "good person" -- it's admittedly a fraught topic, but as a mechanism for having a relationship with herself through her early life when she appeared to have problems with depression and a longing for "meaning", it almost appears that, in her case, her faith has been an important companion or lens through which to understand herself and develop a sense of identity. I don't think it's an ideal tool, and in fact, it's probably been problematic in ways, and I'm sure that I lack the "faith" that I ought to have in people's capacity to leave childhood companions behind, but I admit to possessing a possibly undue pessimism for fully formed adults who lose the things that gave them comfort as children. I hope, at least, that she finds a community that is as rewarding and authentic and warm as the one she appears to have before she takes those big, adult-sized logical steps.
@@torstrasburg4274 holy spirits, batman.
How long is the interview gonna take? 5 minutes. 20 minutes later... almost every time, ha.
she negotiated down to 3 minutes in the beginning. probably so she could get out of a long five minute one just in case things were going to go badly
fortunately Anthony is master at this, and she wanted to recommend the talk to her friends
a great testimony of his skills.
Daniel Manahan great point
That's assuming she knew who Anthony was already.. or what he was doing.
@Daniel, I would like to add that people like to talk about their inner ideals and beliefes to others. As that is what defines the character, but many have learned not to because people judge on that. For example I don't talk to my family about my atheism - not because I'm ashamed or something along the line, but because I know how they react how they will jump to comclusions and accusations, so I spare me and them time, effort and yes also dread.
Anthony doesn't, he has a very set mind about the reality of a deity, but doesn't juge a person on that mindset. You can see it here quite clear, he asked he what kind of miracle should occur to get him to believe, and she carries on talking about her experiance.
Furthermore a person who stops for a complete stranger to talk to them about any topic - especially one they can pick - like to do so and have spare time otherweise they would ignore said person.
The time excuse is one which is common to leave a backdoor open, if you'd lose interest or something seems off - you can rely on said excuse to leave without apreaing rude. We still are a social animal and try to avoid socialy concidered rude behavior.
Having said all that, Anthony still is great in guiding a conversation.
My old comminucations professor said, if you want to dicate what one is thinking about, ask questions, and that is what Anthony does perfectly.
If he said it was going to take 20 minutes, no one would stop to talk to him
A couple of years ago, this girl would've been my idol. Kind, bright, overflowing with love for the Lord. I carried so much stress and shame over not really believing everything I claimed to. All I wanted to do was know that God was real and be able to convey it like she does, and I hung onto my religion for years just wishing I'd get there one day. Now looking back, I'm so relieved I never became the girl I wanted to be. Yes, the way she talks is powerful, beautiful, and to a lot of people, impactful. But now I also see how ambiguous it is. How it's meaning is tied to emotion and poetic language. How it's content ultimately doesn't hold up. I'm so glad to have found this channel and SE, because I'm much more happy now that I realize what it is to value how we know things, rather than just the feeling of what we believe. This is a great talk, thank you Anthony and Emily.
This was kind of hard to listen to. I used to be a born-again Christian. I never really realized how much my beliefs, sounded like a script.
216trixie Yea... Same here, but I've come to grips with it... And in some ways I think that's just how we are, because if you ask a Christian they'll say oh what your issue with the Bible is gay's and slavery... Or evolution.... Basically pointing that they perceive atheist as having a script as well.
Yes, the method of indoctrination used by religion works well. She is well indoctrinated, she knows the script well. I wish you would have asked her if there is anything one could not come to believe by using faith?.
216trixie
uhm you cant be born again and turn away....I would urge you to reconsider how real your faith was. Also athiest usually have some type of similar script like beliefs.
Chanel Miller that's just one of the implanted defenses of the Bible. I must say whoever wrote it was good at understanding the human mind and starting a cult. Because the new testament is loaded with these type of things.
In this specific Case it helps the believer deal with why someone they saw as a believer become an unbeliever. It also protects the faith as being unfalsifiable because only believers understand it, because if you "truly" believed or understood (this becomes synonymous with having the holy spirit) you would still believe because Jesus doesn't lose one.
However that doesn't explain how these people confess with their mouths and hearts and change their lives only to one day walk away and say its not true.
To me that's a double edged sword, because if a person genuinely believed and confess Jesus as your lord and Savior the book says that's all you need to do, and many atheist have done just that.
So its rather rude, and disrespectful to tell someone you weren't really a believer.... But they felt it and they did what the book claimed to be the way... But yet they fell away as the book also says as a defense mechanism.
I think she’ll be thinking about the talk for a while, and I hope she does. I didn’t get the impression she was scripted, rather that she believes the story. I would hope she especially gives more thought to the story about someone of another faith who believes for the same reasons as she believes.
There were many times you were able to plant the seed of doubt. I noticed them two ways-
1. She would fall back on her two main proofs to convince herself again. Kind of retreating to safe familiar ground.
2. When challenged on the method of determining truth, she flails a little between faith and quoting from the book- the book representing "hard evidence".
At no time did she feel judged or pitied which is the beauty of the style of dialog.
She might not have felt pitied but she herself said "a life without faith, how miserably" and I find that to be super disrespectful since he told her that he's not a believer.
Great talk Anthony! For me the highlight was when you asked her if faith wasn’t available to her, would she be as confident, and she had trouble processing what that would even be like. To me that showed you hit the foundational reason for her belief. Great job.
Deep Discussions Thanks. And if I’m not mistaken, that’s right around the time where decided to try and start wrapping things up so she could think about it more on her walk.
Anthony Magnabosco Yes, leaving on a thoughtful note is so important. I also liked how when you answered her inquiries, you brought it back to faith so you guys wouldn’t get distracted.
Deep Discussions Tight and focused :)
Muslim - uses faith
Christian - uses faith
Hindu - uses faith
All of them arrive at different God beliefs.
Atheist - looks at all of them, realises that they all can't be right, realises that faith isn't a reliable method to find truth.
Crazy prayingmantis atheist is faith
@@clashwithspreeses8719 lack of belief in god = faith. how is this possible? and dont bring out scientific theories here because they are not connected to atheism
“Faith” really is just pretending to know things you do not actually know
@@clashwithspreeses8719 Nope, takes 0 faith not to accept a claim from people who believe in a god they can't provide evidence for in its existence. Could a god exist? Maybe, but until that can be proven to exist there is no reason to accept that one does.
@@clashwithspreeses8719 i get tired of explaining this: whole reason i am atheist is to keep as far away from gangs as possible, i am not part of any other persons idea of being an atheist, i have my own beliefs that are unique to me (try me, i'll drive you crazy with the bullshit i can invent) and i only bow to the definition of atheist - someone who could organise the planet better than this sky fairy everyone else relies on. there is no atheist religion (jeez) no atheist movement (although there should be) if there is, then i'm the only atheist on the planet, cos what's mine is mine, philosophically speaking. as dawkins said, if atheism is a religion then baldness is a hair colour.
I loved the moment at 10:38.
- "I can tell you the difference."
Me: "Really?"
- "It's the holy spirit."
Me: "Oh. Never mind then."
I'm always too optimistic with these talks to people who rely on scripture, there are always situations where I expect reasonable answers and instead they just go back to what they were taught in bible class and try to make it fit in some way to the question asked . Somehow I know it's bound to happen at some point and yet I'm always surprised when it does. Oh well.
Thanks for your work Anthony. Emily if you're reading this, please explore the reasons behind your belief and not your belief itself, and have a good day.
chloupichloupa she says “it’s the holy spirt” like what she’s saying to Anthony is some huge bombshell revelation that he hasn’t heard before lol. Don’t you know that the Holy Spirit is real ? C’mom man
When she said that I almost gained her faith with how confident she was.
I was just the same. I was so hopeful. Then when she said the Holy spirit I laughed without wanting to. And then my mind was a bit blown so I came to the comment section to find a bit of logic and sanity
I dropped my head on the pillow when I heard her answer. I should have known better than to expect something real.
literally same lol. the whiplash I got in that moment was brutal
To me it sounds like they really like the feeling of being in love, having a crush on someone. I had a friend like that, it wasn't like the guys she was with was all that great, but she was almost addicted of being in love and being in a relationship. So she made up this love story in her mind, that didn't really match reality.
It seems like all these people who talks about "a relationship with Jesus" is using him as like some kind of substitute for real love, and builds up this perfect and loving relationship in their mind. But when they describe it it's not a equal and loving relationship. It's a "relationship" where one of the parties claim to have made a sacrifice, so now the other party owes him love, worship and so on, and if they're not, then they will be punished. Loving someone like that, it's like suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
Åsa S that’s a great point about it being an unhealthy relationship where one party has made an ultimate sacrifice... that doesn’t seem right. And I also agree that Jesus is used as a proxy for true or unconditional love. IMO Jesus stands in the way, as sort of a middle man... but for some people, that’s totally fine. Like, they found the source of true love, and it exists through him, and that works for them. It doesn’t seem right to me personally.
Fuck. I’m gonna screenshot your comment. Thanks so much.
i love that you accept her 3 minute challenge. it not only forces you to move quickly, it showed her that you have a genuine desire for conversation (rather than a script/sales pitch)
at 14:45 she asks for your testimony, and you bear a strong testimony. these moments are just as important as the purely socratic moments. the full conversation is a wide spectrum
keep up the best work
Emily: Should you watch this video, I'd like to sincerely thank you for your honesty sister. I am personally a man that left Christian faith and I remember being afraid to engage in this type of practice when I myself was a believer. It has been a pleasant surprise to find that I actually began loving others and humanity as a whole when I shed my belief. Please know that we love you and truly just hope to share the freedom we have found in letting go and being willing to say the 3 hardest words I have personally ever uttered. "I dont know."
Be well:)
Great video
Anthony I've watched hundreds of videos on street epistemology. This one struck me. I had a family member get frustrated with my asking questions once, and asked me "what's the point? What's your endgame?" The frustration and my lack of being able to really communicate my why caused me to really stop having conversations. This video brought to my attention my "why". I want to know now. I don't want to fulfill Pascal's wager and find out when I die. I want to find answers in this life and help others find those answers. This video totally reenergized me to continue having conversations with people. Thanks for the good work you're doing.
Hitch would correct you and say Pascal’s Gambit. Lol
I learn so much from these videos, Anthony. Thank you for posting!
When talk of scripture comes up, I'd love to see some questions in the future along the lines of "have you read any other holy books other than the bible?" and then kinda steer towards the point of "do you think it's an honest position to hold to think that the holy book you believe in is the correct one if you haven't read any others?" That was a big turning point question for me as I was questioning my beliefs. Good talk
There a naïveté and innocence about her thinking. It’s like she wanted to believe but never took the time to consider if the things she has decided to believe are true.
Again your questions are asking her to stop and think yet she is only interested in telling you what she believes not how she validated the veracity of he beliefs.
Skepticism and critical thinking should be taught as part of the school syllabus from and early age.
I wonder what she would have said if you asked her if there is anything that cannot be believed by #faith.
My OpenMind not trying to be rude or sarcastic but do you mean naïveté instead of nativity?
Ted M oops. I’m a victim of predictive texts again. Well spotted. 👍
I corrected my typo. Ty
My OpenMind ~ I agree! I have a feeling that she was thinking, "I want to be the one responsible for leading this man to Jesus"!
Skepticism can be dangerous at its depths.. I believe skepticism should be an advanced form of philosophy that should be taught at university levels maybe in psychology or philosophy classes, as it can seem mundane, impractical and even sometimes untenable.
what i've noticed is that a lot of people interviewed behave as if they are eager to tell dad all the wonderful things they recall from the priest in order to get a pat on the head. and to get into heaven of course, cos: barbies in heaven.
“I wish my friends were here”. Peer pressure,love bombing and scripture picking among others. Proselytizing 101 at its finest
I think she said “my friends would love to talk to you” in a way where she sees this as a way to take a non-believer and try to convert them to their “truth.”
@@coolcatcass10 I took it as mildly threatening, sadly. I felt a bit sorry for Anthony because his genuine and honest approach to speaking with people in the street leaves him vulnerable to providing a platform for proselytising by actively evangelical groups. Having conversations where participants inquire as to why they believe what they believe takes a large amount of good faith, and Emily polluted that, I feel.
Anthony is such a gentleman, even when he's causing people to think deeply about their faith. This is how you have a dialogue.
Eddie King .. his patience is truly amazing
The moment her mind is confronted to a logic 'weakpoint', she suddenly recites dogmas that are not even related to a question that was just asked, although she sounded candid and open a second before. You can see the workings of the human mind in this video. Thanks for doing those vids! :)
I was Emily once. happy and almost giddy to talk to anyone about my faith in hopes of showing them my enlightenment. The thought that she could be wrong is an unfathomable concept until it is. Anthony you are a breakthrough artist. getting folks to think thoughts that they have never thought before is the beginning. I would pray for Emily to speed through the process if I did that kind of thing.
11:12 -- Emily says that the way to tell if someone is a true Christian is whether they have the Holy Spirit in them. And Emily seems to fall back to the Bible to know all this is true. Emily, if you are reading this, how do you know that any of that in the Bible is true? How do you know that is a reliable way to determine the beliefs are true? If someone had never heard of any of this and had never read the Bible, how would they be able to not only determine that the Holy Spirit is real, but that people can have this Holy Spirit inside them?
if emily ever comes back to this i'd advise her to watch this: ruclips.net/video/woqy13ZkeqM/видео.html
What's funny is that there are plenty of people who die never knowing who God was and still enter his kingdom. But it is all based on faith. A child who was born and died at 3 years old who never knew God could still go to heaven. The only one who honestly can go beyond faith is God. That is why we all (Christians) must rely on faith. Those who don't even have the chance can still go to God (in heaven) but only God knows. We all can "only" go by faith.
@@issaciams you don't even know what the hell your talking about. Heaven? You don't even know what that is. Qualifications for christianity is to be a total moron void of any critical thought, gullible and mentally deluded. This religious shit is just cancer to the mind.
@@MrKit9 No one here is lying
2:35 I don't know why but I found this edit really funny
It's missing that classic "badum tsss"
I knew I wasn’t the only one that saw that haha
the go-pro behaves in mysterious ways.
Ľuboš Rybanský Experience.
I remember your lovely conversation with the couple who were Mormons. I believe they were very strong believers in the Holy Spirit also. I'd be curious if Emily would think that their belief in the Holy Spirit in their life was proof for the Mormon god.
GregFromCos That’s a wonderful question. I put the Mormon video in the Faith Playlist as a card/link overlay on this video as well as in the video description.
I have mentioned the same thing with my Christian friends about arriving at different gods using faith, and typically they will reply "it's up to each person, to take his/her own path, I have seen the truth with my faith", which is, to me, essentially their way of refusing to think critically about the fact that faith is not a reliable way to get to truth.
As a former JW, it would seem to me that bringing up a hypothetical Hindu and/or a hypothetical JW could be something to try. Perhaps both examples. My guess is that a Christian may go on the attack about the JW, which they will have some knowledge of and not the Hindu. You could then can draw comparisons between the JW's method of truth determination vs the Hindu's. Just a suggestion.
I really liked this video. A couple Friday's ago I worked up the courage to have a conversation with a stranger. I didn't record it but I wrote down my thoughts and it is actually so much fun. Thank you Anthony for providing these videos!
Religion is a metabelief that is why it's so hard to shake. Once one pillar of your belief is weakened you have all the other pillars holding the belief up and after years you can rebuild the weaken pillar forgetting the reasons why you doubted in the first place.
Everything makes sense to you through the religious eyes and nothing makes sense to you without it so you cannot drop your religion.
I think there are some religious folks who just can't shake the belief. It's quite sad, really
This channel is a gold mine!!!!!! love listening to these talks. I think this is what our society needs, more logical thinking and for people to question each others beliefs, in the most respectful way of course.
Hi Emily! I am so impressed with your ability to be level-headed throughout all these questions, and I love that you don't feel threatened. I hope you learn something new from all of this!
Nice one, thanks for the upload. Indeed we should all be respectful in our comments because talking about faith is something deeply personal and intimate. I have a feeling she will come back and they will have another talk.
Very good job, as usual, Anthony. Emily seems like a nice girl and hopefully she will give your interview some serious thought.
It's intriguing how sure she is of her beliefs without really honestly digging into what she bases that on. I'd almost say she's still trying to convince herself
This was by far one of my favorite talks! Thanks Anthony.
I absolutely love the transition from greyscale to color in the intro. Great job Anthony!
It's hard to be anything but sad for her.
Your method is amazing.
emily is so sweet, i can tell she feels deeply for people like she said. You can also tell she is very sincere and cares for him, what a loving person
Too bad she's likely to think he'll spend eternity in hell for fundamentally disagreeing with her.
Anthony, you are so patient. I am so thankful to have gleaned from your encounters
Anthony, you're a legend. I've just found your videos and I'm devouring them all. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, being so open.
Man oh man, the Outsider Test for Faith is so effective. So many people use faith for their religious beliefs and it’s such an easy, interesting question to ask. I’ve never heard a religious person explain how their faith trumps another person’s.
She’s quite smart and I would love you guys to talk again, if she’s up for it. Maybe a meeting with her friends like she mentioned would be quite fun. I think it’s important to get younger people thinking about these deep questions.
One thing I disagree with you on is participating in the prayer. I will let others pray for me while I’m with them. I don’t actively participate because I don’t believe it works and I’m not going to do something that I don’t think works but I use it as an opportunity to ask about why they don’t do other rituals. For instance, after the prayer ends, I’ll ask, “Do you believe in voodoo dolls?” or “How is prayer different than casting a spell?” It always makes for a fun end to the conversation. I understand your reasoning against it, though.
SailingSeignior Imagine a witch doctor asked to perform a chant to ward off the evil spirits around me before he headed off on his hike. I would probably respond in much the same way. As always, I appreciate your opinions and insights.
Anthony Magnabosco Haha! Exactly. It’s definitely quite awkward to say the least.
SailingSeignior i'm interested in this 'outsider test' but i'm not a great internet navigator. Do you have any sources available for me to begin learning about it. Anything would be helpful.
Eric Mishima
The Outsider Test for Faith is pretty simple. It's been around forever but I think philosopher John Loftus coined the term. The Thinking Atheist has a video with him here on RUclips. I would link to it but for some reason my browser isn't letting me post links in RUclips comments. There's a book about it, too. You can find it on Amazon: _The Outsider Test for Faith: How to Know Which Religion is True_ by John W. Loftus.
Here's a quick synopsis of the Outsider Test for Faith:
Religious people will usually report that the sole/main reason they believe in their religion is because of faith (sometimes believers will first report supposed evidence of their claims but if you ask follow up questions about that evidence they will usually back down since there's virtually no convincing evidence of supernatural claims). The Test essentially just involves asking a believer about other religious claims that they do not espouse, mentioning how those different believers use faith to reach their different conclusions, and asking how someone that doesn't believe in either (the outsider) could evaluate which belief is true - if any - since both claims utilize faith. The point is to inquire if faith is the best way to come to conclusions. You can organize the test in a few different but similar ways but that's essentially the gist of it.
For instance, you meet a Muslim at a mall and you ask him why he believes in Islam. He reports he was raised with the religion and it's just his faith. You then ask him why you should convert to Islam based on faith when Christians and Hindus use faith, as well. You ask him if faith is the best method we have to ascertain what is true and what is not. He realizes his beliefs make no sense, he deconverts, and he and you go have a beer and a BLT at a local restaurant. Everyone's happy.
The whole point of the test is to get religious people to apply the same level of skepticism that they have about other religions to their own religion.
SailingSeignior thanks so much.
There is probably a 1 in a million shot she'll actually see this, but whatevs...
Hi Emily! Thank you for having the chat and sharing your beliefs and thoughts with Anthony and the rest of us! If I could make one comment from what I observed, it's that while you seem very confident about WHAT you believe, it didn't feel to me like you knew WHY you believed it, other than it was how you were raised and because you have faith in it. There was a lot of Christian lingo thrown around, like the bit about Jesus appearing before people, and the holy spirit being in you and working through you, but I was hoping to hear more about why you actually thought such things were true. Just because something is written in a book, or told to me by my parents, doesn't mean it's true. Much like Anthony, I couldn't take it on faith because anyone can believe anything based on faith. How can we really find out if the things that we believe are true, especially if faith can lead people to different conclusions?
yt Wonder why she left out the part about all the graves opening up and zombies walking the streets. You'd think at least THAT would be noteworthy for the historians of the time. None of his miracles were.
@Reflex That's entirely false. I became an atheist at 12 or 13 and so did Anthony Magnabosco apparently, around that time according to something he said in another video. It's on her that she's still a theist at her age.
@Reflex I became an atheist at age 8 xD.
What a cool talk! I'm really glad she stayed longer than the three minutes since it gave you to a chance to get through the quick, stock answers and into a more genuine conversation.
I really enjoyed watching Anthony and his ability to ask questions in a non-defense provoking way. I also appreciated the brief commentary at the end.
A life without faith is a life with less self-delusion.
jeffersonianideal u sure about that or is that just your faith talking?
@@flipping_for_funds You sad pathetic fool. Prove the essence of your faith. Show us your god.
Kit Cumbie why the name calling? Does that somehow help you or your faith?
@@flipping_for_funds You pathetic imbecile. I am an Atheist and you deserve every single derisive word that you receive. People who believe in a Soul Santa are mentally ill.
@@MrKit9 Not sure if you're a religious person trying to make atheists look bad or seriousely lacking social skills? If you start ANY argument of with an insult you have immediately lost. Nobody will even listen to what comes after. You can learn a lot from Anthony mate :)
It really hurts to think that there are people who ask things like “if not faith then what else is there?” It’s really depressing and reminds me if how negative my religious famiy is. They are always negative. I just imagine what thag feels like asking a non religious person that question. Almost implying that we don’t live purposeful and happy lives. There is so much more than faith. The truth is so much more grand and beautiful without the pretty promises and stories.
Yeah, when I hear questions like that, my inclination is to want to answer them, in a directly-answering-the-question-asked sort of way: "Well, there's wonder, and joy, and evidence, and reason, and companionship, and......" and on and on.
Hi Emily! Great to see that you are having such an honest conversation with Anthony!
The way that you ask your questions, and the way you talk is powerful. Never accusing, no “but what about….?”. Great job.
Jesus is kind of a bad boyfriend, he never shows up, he shames you contently, and threatens to torture you if you don't follow his directions....
And claims he loves you and what he does is for your own good!
He shames you for behaving "badly" and then says that the only way to escape punishment is to follow him. If alternative evidence arises, he says "its a trap designed by the devil" (so gaslighting!).
@@brianbrise7338
Isaiah 54:4
“Fear not, for you will not be ashamed; be not confounded, for you will not be disgraced; for you will forget the shame of your youth, and the reproach of your widowhood you will remember no more.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame
Psalm 34:4-5
I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears. Those who look to him are radiant, and their faces shall never be ashamed
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Isaiah 61:7
7 Instead of your shame
you will receive a double portion,
and instead of disgrace
you will rejoice in your inheritance. And so you will inherit a double portion in your land,
and everlasting joy will be yours.
Genesis 2:25
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
Psalm 37:18-19
The Lord knows the days of the blameless, and their heritage will remain forever; they are not put to shame in evil times;
Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience
Joel 2:27
You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God and there is none else. And my people shall never again be put to shame.
@@mauricenickelson9472 See that is the problem. It seems as if most of your justification for believing in Jesus or for being a Christian is based on the Bible. It' s circular reasoning. Bible > believe in my philosophy and you'll be rewarded. Belief in Christian philosophy leads you to be a Christian. Religion doesn't accept "testing of faith" it doesn't accept "questioning" and it certainly doesn't allow alternative hypotheses to be created. A reasonable mind looks at all of the available evidence, tests it, observes, and then decides. But Christian teachings only lead back to the Church.
Also, I have never understood the concept of "Jesus = God. Jesus sacrifices himself for the betterment of mankind yet he is sacrificing himself to God. Which is actually himself" ????????
The thing with science is that it's not circular. We continue to find the best explanation for a phenomenon that occurs in nature. If an explanation is proven to be inaccurate, it is rejected (eventually). If an alternative hypothesis (one that explains the data better) comes along, scientists accept it (eventually).
@@brianbrise7338
Malachi 3:10
“…. Test me in this says the Lord Almighty,…”
1 John 4:1
Test the Spirits
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22
But test everything; hold fast what is good.
James 1:3
For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
James 1:3
For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
Hebrews 9:14
14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[a] so that we may serve the living God!
Hebrews 10:12
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
Hebrews 1:3
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Leviticus 20:8
8 .... I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
Isaiah 55
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Good job Anthony, but I'm not sure if this was really a two-way conversation. Although very pleasant, she seemed too eager to "share the good news of Jesus." I got the impression that she felt she found someone she could bring into the fold of religion. I've had eerily similar experiences where hard core religionists mistook my inquisitiveness as "seeking" (as in seeking Jesus). I could be wrong about Emily, but to offer prayer for you after having had this conversation is a bit disconcerting (and disconnected, given the nature of your comments).
At any rate, not sure if you could have put her offer to pray for you in perspective by asking her how she would feel if a Muslim, or a Hindu wanted to pray for her.
THIS. I can't stand how some SE goes so soft. You're right, I believe Emily's woowoo was actually strengthened by this conversation. I bet she thought, like she is trained, she was "tested" today.. possibly by satan. And she passed. And she introduced another person to the holy spirit and jeebus.
The exact opposite of what should happen. Not good. I'd love to see more pressure and less allowing them to preach and preach. Cut off the scripts they've been forced down their throats. Really press them and cut the BS.
Tom Jones the problem with that is when talking to these people you have to be as careful as a surgeon. Going down on the too hard will make them feel like you’re antagonizing them and they will clamp down on their beliefs and get sucked deeper into their religion
Enjoyed this talk a lot. Very useful stuff. Recently had the opportunity to chat with a colleague with beliefs in christian miracles etc. I'm going to steal few of the questions you used here if I get another chance to talk to him about this topic.
Keep it up!
It's so weird watching your videos after watching Matt Dillahunty tear people to pieces on The Atheist Experience. It's actually quite nice seeing someone so calm and collected, and honestly seems like a much more effective method to get people to drop their guards. Good job, keep up the good work in your pursuit of truth!
I have a high confidence level that she was doxastically closed.
I liked her to be honest. Even though I don't quite agree with her. Maybe it was because of the happy expression. I don't know
Keep doing this anthony. These are gold
You nailed it at the end, Anthony. She was doxastically closed. It's no fault to her and millions of us who are raised into our particular religious beliefs from an early age. And as evidenced by her appeal to a prayer for you (doxastically closed), her wanting to bring in her friends to the conversation (i.e. reinforcements), and the extension of the conversation despite your subtle cues to conclude(defense mechanism), you kindly and respectfully succeeded in pointing out the unreliability of faith as a methodology for truth, for what it is worth. To her, very little, but to the RUclips audience worldwide, a great deal. Thanks for what you do!
This girl makes me sad. Her mind is so locked in.
Imagine a man is found to have tortured and killed his son. He is brought before a judge and says, “Well you see, I told my neighbor next door not to eat apples off my one prize tree but he listened to this demon disguised as a talking snake who talked him into eating them and I got really pissed. I cursed his entire family and told them to leave town but I really loved the guy and his family but I needed to have some retribution so I decided I would have my own son tortured and killed so I would have retribution. So now I felt I was paid what was due..
Oh You think I am a horrible person, sick and demented? Why not at all, for you see its not so horrible for I and my son are one and the same! That was me suffering like that as well as my son who is really me! Actually we are one and the same and, in fact, my son and I have existed for eternity and my son actually existed before his mother was born.
Now don’t believe these pagans who tell you evil came into the world when Pandora opened that forbidden box. Yup, that is a lie and pagan superstition but my story is true.
Now you must believe what I say as true even if it seems absurd to you ..believe it on something called “faith” which means you simply believe it without reason or facts. It’s a great virtue to think this way and a sin to think otherwise. And if it you don’t believe it, when you die I will send you into everlasting punishment..That’s right. I will punish you with everlasting fire. If you believe in me even if it makes no sense, well then you will be rewarded with everlasting bliss..no matter how many crimes you commit.
For God so hated the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whoever does not believe in him shall perish and be denied eternal life.
So appreciate these chats!
When they say "we can keep going" is always one of my favorite parts
As someone who lives in a predominantly secular nation, I find these videos both fascinating and horrifying. Keep it up, you're doing God's work ;)
me, on the other hand, as a born atheist, i can't imagine how a life WITH faith would be enjoyable. i like knowing my life is as accurate and free of fake claims and beliefs as possible. i like getting in a car and knowing testably reliable measures like putting on my seatbelt and adjusting my mirrors properly will keep me as safe as possible, rather than believing its all the unknown plan of someone else and nothing i do will make a difference to whether i die in the car today or not... that would drive me insane.
She seems like such a nice and sweet person. You go, Emily:) You're so very brave for having this dialogue too. If you're reading this, I hope you're having a wonderful day! Great job, Anthony, too.
I really like how she couldn't do a five minute talk..but after spending three minutes with Anthony. She went on for another 20 minutes. Just wonderful to see how easy Anthony is to talk too. :)
Steven Woodford said to say "Hi", when coming to watch this video.
Hi.
I used to talk exactly like Emily and never had someone ask me these kinds of questions. I probably would have left my faith long ago if I had. The closest to this I had was a kinda mean kid at school say believing in Jesus was like believing in Santa Claus, but that's all he said about it. Although he's right, it's not a way to talk to someone and certainly doesn't explain why. What really got me (and I know it's different for everyone) was finding out there was no evidence of historical Jesus, that there were only 3 very short (1 paragraph or even less) written about anyone named Jesus, and that there were many people writting about the day to day life or current events at the time and did NOT write about a man names Jesus or someone doing miracles. It's one of those "you'd expect there would be". I was always taught that there was tons of people who wrote about Jesus during his life and soon after his death. I did not know how far from the truth that was. That was the beginning of me going "wait, that can't be true, let me look that up. Oh...umm...let me look up something else...oh...what about this...oh, etc. Till I went "maybe this isn't true after all"
Just found your videos and channel... thank you for asking questions.... taking the time to discover good questions and bring them to the surface gets people thinking and that's a good thing.
I'm really enjoying this. Thanks for sharing this. I look forward to seeing more. I have subscribed. ♥
I see this as such an awesome talk. It might look very slight on the outside but I feel she was really dealing with the talk internally.
Nicely done Emily and Anthony. I observed that she seemed to believe that other Christians are not real Christians. She seemed to have some criteria fo making that distinction. It seems that real Christianity is a very rare thing from what I gathered from her. Is there a chance that those other people would disagree and claim they are the real Christians and perhaps she is not the real thing? I am always curious how Christians can determine who is and is not a real Christian. Somehow I got the feeling that one must belong to her particular community or a community very like hers, in order to be considered "real." Just my observation from someone who was never a real Christian and who could never figure out who the real Christians were.
The no-true-scotsman fallacy. When faiths collide, people only see their own.
well one of the reasons i fell into being an atheist is that when i was young i was told that christians were the nicest people, that they do such-and-such, so if that box was there i ticked it, then of course you find out that christians are equally capable of all the sins anyone on the planet is, even people close to you, and you have gto o, well fk it, i wanted to be a christian, but good god how? the only way to be a decent "christian" is to be atheist, it's been obvious from very early in my life. it's why i still use prayer, but i pray to a god of my own invention.
We are raised that faith is good for everyone to have and that it's a virtue. Anthony does a really good job of planting the seed of doubt in that idea of faith being so valuable and opens the door for them to expand their minds.
Your channel has helped influence what I do, I really enjoy your work and am glad my friend brought me to your channel. Thank you for all your hard work. I too seek truth and teaching people about things!
Have you ever been asked to co-host an episode of The Atheist Experience? I think with a lot of their callers, your approach would be more fruitful than Matt Dillahunty's rather aggressive (and sometimes downright annoying) way of handling things.
Matt the best
He's been on a few shows:
ruclips.net/video/M7yqPM05aLU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/gSp_f47cBSM/видео.html
Anthony has been on there before. I find both approaches work really well, but accomplish two different things. Matt is appealing more to the audience listening, helping them see the logical fallacies, dishonesty and contradictions. While Anthony's approach is more suitable for 1 on 1 and assisting in self reflection.
@swiss matts way was the way that helped my get out because i valued evidence
Matt is a beast, but he does lose his patience sometimes and becomes angry. Those are his worst moments IMO.
I got so excited when she said at 10:40 "I can tell you the difference", and I could hear it in Anthony's response too. Like we were going to get something good, different, or original. She said "The Holy Spirit" and I laughed. Not at her, but I thought she was going to throw a monkey wrench into the interview. I just want so bad to see Magnabosco challenged, to see how he responds to something he hasn't heard. Also, Anthony, you have great taste in hats. I have the same one!
Anthony you are amazing!!! My new favorite person. This is just incredible to witness. I was traumatized by religion as a child and see it as a mental illness totally bases on personal ego that is being violently spread. Thank you for dismantling it without aggression youre doing amazing work
She seems very genuine and open and enthusiastic. One of the things I really enjoy about these conversations is the people that aren't trying to guard their answers out of fear of being pounced upon. The question, "If faith wasn't an option, would you still believe," seemed to really cause some reflection.
Is there a slight look of concern on her face, maybe a glimmer of worry after you hand over your RUclips channel details that it suddenly dawn's on her she's been talking to the guy her friends in the Christian groups have warned her not to talk to but she didn't realise until now because you weren't on campus. At that moment she's probably struggling with conflicting thoughts between what she was told about you and her own experience of a polite, pleasant conversation.
She was extremely polite for sure.
How do you know that this is true?
That feels like too many assumptions
Faith is believing out loud what you wish was true.
jeffersonianideal according to you only
Anthony , you are very good at what you do. On a confidence scale, I’m 100% sure of this. I’ve learned a ton, about how to speak better to non-believers, from your videos . Thank you.
Anthony, you are so good at what you do and Emily was a lovely conversationalist. If she reads this, I hope Emily realizes that she is a terrific person because she is a terrific person, not because she was raised to believe in things that are not real.
Great talk, but I couldn't help but get the continuous feeling of extreme arrogance from her responses. Like she was privy to this supreme knowledge and poor Anthony was just a lost lamb.....God made me so smart and special dontcha know?
Not trying to be mean, and I've watched all of Anthony's videos, but the overconfidence in this one really struck me more than some others.
snoopy0822 your arrogance radar is way off
snoopy0822 your arrogance radar is spot on.
trailmarker #6 haha brilliant
She reminds me of the daughter of a preacher. I know somebody like this and I love her so much. I would never challenge her faith though because it would probably ruin her life to become a skeptic. Well maybe one day I could grow a pair and talk to her but it would have to come up naturally
@@emmamlis927 Unless you somehow convince them into being a murderer through skepticism, I can't imagine how encouraging someone to think would ruin their life. Be aware of how you shatter these concepts, though, since often people get caught up in a bubble of affirmations and don't realize people legitimately don't think their evidence is valid, or even considered evidence. Being dishonest to a friend to protect them is not a good way to be a friend. Either they'll live trapped their whole life, or the revelation will be that much worse from someone else. The former is the danger.
Great conversation but I don't think much got through to her. She was really anxious to get Anthony to talk to her friends which sounded like an attempt to convert him. Christians are told they have an obligation to lead people to Christ to save them from hell so this isn't surprising. I had an interesting conversation with a guy at work who told me that people who don't believe in god must have never gone through really hard times in their lives because then they would see that they need god to get through those times. He knew I was an atheist and I was astounded he could say that to me since at 62 years old, it would be very unusual if I had never been through any hard times in my life. I mention this because people that believe are so entrenched in their belief that they can't see how people that don't believe can even get through life. She said what is life without faith like she couldn't even imagine living life without her belief. I hope the talk with Anthony causes her to think about whether using faith is really a good way to find truth and even if she continues to have faith in god, I hope she discovers that those that don't have faith in a god can lead wonderful and full lives as well.
That’s interesting, that the guy you talked to thought that you had such an amazingly easy and free sailing life to have never faced any hard times at all in your 62 years. You’d think he’d be thinking, “ damn, an atheist must be especially favoured by the “one true” god, but why!? Maybe I’ve been praying to and worshipping the wrong god and god prefers and rewards people who don’t just stupidly jump to god beliefs with no decent evidence!” 🥴
Same argument can be used to leave a religion. I left religion because of really hard times I went through and god did not help me through.
I love your method. It’s so productive.
Thank you for taking the time, Emily. To me, this channel isn't about trying to create doubt in believers' mind, but rather exploring a way to examine the important things that we believe so that we can live with more truth. There's a group online that takes this approach and takes turns questioning their own beliefs, even though most members of the group aren't of faith. This group is the Street Epistemology Discord channel.
In the end where she wanted to pray for you indicates that she believes there is a form of test for her faith. I wonder if this could lead to another conversation and another belief that faith can be tested.
for example what happens if she prays for your, because you allowed it, and then you ask what would she expect to happen if prayer works and what will happen if prayer doesn't work
get her to set up a form of Rubrik, grading system for the reliability for that prayer
unfortunately the quick answer from these types of people will be, prayer always works but we are not allowed to judge it and verify it. that it works in its own mysterious ways, and whatever happens is what is meant to happen so success is 100 percent all the time. a no fail situation
so I believe you were right to deny the prayer session unless she were to agree to use that as part of the epistemology, a part of her testing methods where she is willing to lessen her confidence based on the outcome of the prayer not meeting the reliability test.
Her overconfidence and lack of self-awareness is quite painful to watch.
"I obviously have a brain that's full functioning"
Well, the hardware seems to works just fine but there are a few bugs in the software.
Yeah that killed me actually.
Back then b4 being a non believer I use 2 not have self awareness & sounded just like her in the video but now I accept reality & I now have self awareness
You have the most excellent tactics, Anthony. Bravo, bud.
Thx for the good work, I’m watching this to learn and be more like this. I also think it is a good method for conversation ^^
She seems very nice but also condescending. Though I'm not sure she realizes that.
Cody Heimbach that's how ppl act when theyr're absolutely certain about something that requires a faulty epistemology.
As a reminder (just to make sure this doesn't potentially go off the rails in the future)...
She will likely read this thread.
So far it's fine enough. I'm not saying there's a problem.
I feel it in my heart. ha ha
Really? I didn't get that impression from her at all. Truthfully, apart from her naivete, I thought she seemed genuinely sweet. I cannot pretend to agree with her beliefs, but she seemed kind, honest and genuine.
I hope she watches the clip of Dawkins vs. the blonde, Christian lady and realizes that she talks a lot like that lady. And then I hope she grows out of it.
You are doing God's work Anthony. Please don't stop! :)
Not sure whether to laugh or........ anyway.... ;)
Emily's physical beauty, and how it colors our reaction to her, has to be acknowledged. It's not the whole story, but it contextualizes this entire interview, and how we react to her in these comments.
Interesting take.
Just come across this channel after watching the dialogue with Aron Ra. I really like your application of the approach of street epistemology. I, like Aron, struggle in dialogue with theists not to get annoyed at what I am hearing. I could learn a great deal from watching these videos!
Great interview, thanks. Struck by her utter lack of curiosity about how to differentiate between ideas. Same script as a born again friend of mine who fills every email with unsolicited gospel but who has never once in 20 years expressed the slightest interest in what I believe or think. Permanently on transmit, and hence fundamentally boring.
Tbh the concept of hell is what really turns me off from religion. Putting a normal flawed human being thru an eternity of unimaginable suffering because they exercise the free will that was given to them by committing a couple of sins that every other human commits sounds completely awful. The idea itself sounds like something out of the head of a psychopathic dictator. Whoever wrote the Bible very well might have been.
She was nice and caring. I appreciated having watched her and hearing her perspective on it all. Loved her exit statement ❤️
Not sure if you read comments from several year old videos, but I just found your channel recently and have been going on a bit of a binge. Love the content and I hope you make more!
Every once in a while RUclips will send me an email with a comment. Thank you for yours. I’ve been pretty busy with other SE related things but might get back to doing some interviews in the near future. Thanks for watching. I’m really glad that you found accountant. Check out the communities if you get a chance. They’re awesome.
One little point of distintinction, she asked if you provide commentary in the background. I took that to mean, do you add commentary interspersed during the conversation. Which you don't do, except in your training videos
GregFromCos Possibly. It occurred to me afterwards that she was sitting around stretching perhaps when I was giving commentary on my previous talk with Kenneth and Colton (video next week), so she may have heard/seen me speaking to myself before she approached the trailhead.
When and where does the holy spirit enter? We only have so many orifices.
the whole thing is so absurd it's laughable. put that spirit in me daddy!
I do like the way Anthony respectfully asks questions and challenges people in their beliefs. Most people get angry and are closed minded not willing to even listen to what the other has to say( which is what I tend to do)
That joy and happiness that Emily has and speaks of is what I was seeking in my life of torment, addiction, and pure madness. I prayed and all of the anger, hate of self and others, burning desire for alcohol/ drugs was taken away and replaced with indescribable joy and peace such as ive never felt in my life. I was taught that Jesus is our salvation which is probably what led me to even pray that day. I always believed what I was taught but after my experience I KNOW the changes inside my heart and mind weren’t of my own doings and I was truly saved by the love and grace of Jesus Christ
💖 the video.
Thank you both.
Hi Emily 🤗
Dan 🇮🇹