Street Epistemology: James & Barbara | Black and White Thinking (Obstinacy)
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2017
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 18 July 2017
Released: 27 July 2017
Twitter: / magnabosco (follow me)
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Website: anthonymagnabosco.com (contact me, appearances)
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SE Community: tinyurl.com/abm-se-community
Audio Only: / ep-165-dialogue-anthon...
** Add foreign language captions w/RUclips's community contributions tools **
Summary: James and I examine the reasons for his God belief while his wife Barbara stands by listening. Watching the video later, I noticed that it seemed James was contemplating switching from the religion of his upbringing to Jehovah's Witness.
Mistakes: Yes, I mispronounced laisser-faire. I may have said at one time here that I've been interviewing people for three years. Well, it will be five years in December 2017.
Recorded w/Go-Pro. Edited w/PowerDirector.
The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
#StreetEpistemology #Magnabosco #JehovahsWitness #OutsiderTestForFaith #Faith #InterracialCouple #JW #Baptist #Hinduism #StreetEpistemologyTraining #AnthonyMagnabosco
22:22 | "Good thing I don't have to go to work today. I'll be thinking about this all day."
- Haha. Awesome.
You got Britany thinking in that video you put out yesterday too. Well done!
Cordial Curiosity Nailed it haha!
These powerful talks rule!
Cordial Curiosity Exactly! That's called success!
This guy seems like such a genuinely good person, all religious context aside.. he just has that tone and demeanor about him. His reasons make no sense, his beliefs have no foundation.. but whatever. With most people you talk to, that would be annoying. This guy is just going through life being nice to people with no strong opinions in either which way, and that's awesome. People like this are few and far between these days
*he just has that tone and demeanor about him*
You are projecting.
Pendejo
Why do you say that?
Pendejo - That’s not projection man - he is just pointing out that the guy isn’t some arrogant prick who demands that they are right at all costs.
@@zakkenwasser65how is he projecting?
@@iamalmostover9000
I was probably drunk when I made that comment. Best guess I didn't like the enormously condescending tone of his comment, and ended up saying something about it that not really fits.
What a nice guy James seems to be. And I love his honesty. Great ending too!
Hey James if you read this I just want to say that I really admire your honest answers and curiosity about the topic. I really hope you have given it some more thought like you mentioned.
I would love to see a second talk with you and anthony if you would be open to it. The talk was very enjoyable.
I almost wanted to touch you through the screen too lol
Frank Douglas He was a touchable guy!
I am 100% confident i'm the first to comment, however given the right evidence I would be willing to come down on that scale.
AZCats09
For crying out loud; have some faith......!........!!!...lol
How about a dollar?
A3Kr0n
Show me evidence of your dollar and I'll have faith it doesn't do something.....
i firmly believe you are and i have the evidence this comment was made 2 years ago. however if i said a muslim commented at that exact same moment, how would i tell which is true?
@@HarryNicNicholas or somebody could have commented first and deleted it before this commenter saw it?
We need more James in this world. What a great guy.
I was honestly taken aback by how incredibly honest James was about why he believed and that it could easily be wrong. He also quickly accepted that based on the reasons that he gave, he didn't have enough to know it was true. What an amazingly genuine human being!
At 11:13 after you ask your question, James hesitates, dragging out his words like he was still searching for an answer. I certainly don't mean to assume what he was thinking, but I can't help but feel like he wanted to say "I don't know".
James's openness and honesty really made this talk awesome. Great talk.
Great talk, Anthony. I agree, he seems pretty stubborn. You made a bold move with that interracial line, but I loved it.
Sebouh Aguehian It seemed like something he felt was important, so I chose it to make a more lasting impression (I may get 20 minutes and never see him ever again). If he mentioned how much he likes raising bunnies, I probably would have used that instead. When using SE, go where people take you. Let them drive and be the passenger that asks questions.
Well according to the bible it tells to stone people to death interracially.
Anthonys epistemology powers come directly from the magical tictacs he carries.
As he consumes souls, they power the magic of the tictacs which is why you can clearly see change color as his power increases.
What a lovely guy and a very brave challenge bringing interracial relationships into the discussion. You do that so well.
That's the longest 5 min interview.
Hey James, thank you for your refreshing honesty and candor! Hope you'll contemplate your talk with Anthony, and explore street epistemology further. I hope you give more thought to the notion of holding onto beliefs simply because they were handed down to you. But whatever path you go down, we could use more people like you in this world. Best wishes, my friend! :-)
" hope you give more thought to the notion of holding onto beliefs simply because they were handed down to you. " can you explain what you mean by that?
Great chat! Hat's off to James, very honest in his position. Such a likeable guy too.
this man appears to be an incredible person and someone who is extremely genuine. the fact that he can analyze himself in way and engage in discourse the way he did is super admirable. he "got it" and you could see the wheels turning and the "AHA!" moment happen. thanks to james, his wife and you, anthony, for putting this conversation out there. every believer, nonbeliever and in-betweener needs to see more conversations like this.
Ashley Klug Very nicely stated. Yes, James seems like a wonderful, introspective fellow and I hope to one day run into him again.
Great talk, loved James and his intellectual honesty. I do think it would've been helpful if we got to see what his definition of faith was, and his confidence in his belief.
Adrian Hopkins I think James gave his definition of faith with his "hot weather" example ("I just feel it"), and his confidence, although not expressed as a number, also seemed pretty evident ("I'm not changing" and "I would take a whole lot to make me change").
So many time these things can be discerned from just listening and do not have to be spelled out with black marker on a whiteboard :)
Yes, but we have a measure of temperature so we can say its 24 degrees celsius and then go oh my goodness that's hot. We also know that wind can affect how hot it feels.
We don't have a measure of God or Gods to believe that it is real.
Anthony your patience and timing is inspiring!!
Loved this conversation
Anthony, you're so awesome. Keep doing what you're doing!
James seems like one of the kindest people that I have heard in quite a while, and an honest guy.
Anthony..you are amazing. This guy strait-up took an interest in street epistemology. [Applaud]
I hope they talk about the talk (or give a card) to that atheist cousin he mentioned, sounds like SE personality
Another great conversation! James mentioned a few times about his Jehovah's Witness friend and I get the impression he is unaware of how horrible life as a witness can be. James if you read this may I recommend watching a few personal testimonies from ex-witnesses or the John Cedars channel. You may find there's a lot to that religion you don't know - and it's all bad
Intoxicatedoutspokenantitheist I got the sense (after watching this a few times afterwards) that James was feeling a lot of pressure to believe what his JW friends were telling him, and a lot of his resistance to being open to changing his mind on the God claim could have been related to that other struggle.
Now that you mention that Anthony it is understandable - they have to find a way to put Jehovah into every conversation. This may sound alarmist but James's friend and family are in real danger - I hope James gathers some information about Watchtower so he is better equipped to help when the time comes, and as importantly, steers clear of it.
What a likable human being! (both of them).
Awesome conversation, I really enjoyed it.
great conversation!
He's a breath of fresh air, I adore the honesty👏👏👏👏
Love this guy, his attitude is just great. Well done again, great SE.
I would be speechless with this gentleman. There’s really nothing to debate. He’s honest, not hard headed etc..
"I'm gonna say God because of the belief I have..." Already I'm impressed with that level of self-awareness and allowing for others to have different-yet-valid beliefs!
at the start of the extreme example I thought it went too far, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that it had a very positive effect. I guess you read the situation very well, great job!
All you have to do is get them thinking. Good job
Wow what a great guy. I'd love to hang out and chat with him as well. He's so likable.
I love this conversation, no science, just straight logical interaction
This is one of my favorites.
Doctor Shell One of mine, too.
Wow! James and Barbara seemed genuine , articulate and honest. An awesome conversation!!
Great video thanks! Man you have that place all camera rigged up huh? :) "SE Studios"
Another spectacular talk. James seems like a helluva nice dude. Good he'll be thinking about this and perhaps he can talk some sense into his JW friends at some point. Great job, Anthony!
I really like watching your '"hobby" Anthony. On this video I could hear this whole conversation, except when the gentleman's wife spoke. Even with my volume at 80%, I still could not hear her. Anthony, I love when you put the words to your videos. Keep up the great work!!
Nicole Spencer Yeah I could be quite challenging to record people in public, particularly if there’s a lot of background noise or the person is a quiet talker. Try headphones and see if that improves things. Thank you for watching.
I loved how honest James is here. :-)
Nice couple. I love the fringe believers. Great interview.
Loved seeing this talk. James has the same personality as some of my family members! Sadly I don’t think they would have his openness, but would probably remain stubborn in some of the same areas that he did. A great watch so many years later!
first open laff of the day :-) thanks you three...
I love this guy
he’s such a sweet dude
Good stuff Anthony.
This was great!
I had a now deceased black friend much like James.
He disliked the church and organized religion but described
himself as "spiritual". Had dated white girls but did not
believe in having mixed-race kids, was open to many nutrition
woo fads, voted for DJT(!). I had no luck talking him out of
any of that but loads of fun trying. Certainly miss him.
He's very open and honest!💯
I feel like "you might even be an atheist, I don't know" is one of the highest compliments you can get while doing SE.
I love when people are genuine. Ya cant beat it.
Great discussion
with nice conclusion
Has this person sent you an email afterwards? This is one of the most beautiful conversations a have seen so far on this channel. 'Well, got you me thinking now!' are his last words of the conversation. Waauw!
Unfortunately, no. Maybe it really did got caught in the spam folder :)
I really like this guys honesty in his beliefs. Most people dont seem to be willing to admit that they could be wrong about their religious beliefs.
I've watched ask your videos and this is the talk I think that went there best of them all when he said"there is no way to prove god exists" very calmly also when he said "you might be an atheist" I feel that's all the proof you need to have to say you are very good at this. He was super calm the whole talk very nice people.
The Santa clause point his wife made was huge as well
Hey Anthony, I'm a huge fan of your SE and I'm so grateful that you share your videos with us. I have a question for you. What would you say to someone who claims to not care about truth if it doesn't improve their life? I've been trying SE with a friend and he refuses to think deeply about his beliefs (not just God but other topics as well) because of this; he doesn't think the truth is worth personally knowing because he thinks it will lower his quality of life.
bonnieclyder hello there. Thank you. I am writing up a blog post now for the SE Website to address this issue of truth and situations when people say they have a low value of it. Once it is done I'll turn it into an audio version for the SE podcast as well. Thanks!
Hi Anthony, that's awesome and I can't wait to read/hear it. Thank you for all you do for this community!
Another fantastic video! I really respect that James was aware and upfront that his belief in God was based in his upbringing. Hopefully, he rebels against all lessons taught which were not sound or ethical.
If you hear from James suggest he go to jwsurvey on RUclips and watch John Cedars/Lloyd Evans for insight on his buddy's Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. He may not know the extremes his friend is exposed to. You may be familiar with Lloyd already. I am not and have never been a JW, but I appreciate his work as I appreciate yours. Exposure to research on cults brought me to my atheism. That took me to Chris Shelton, Lloyd Evans, Matt Dillahunty, you and so many others. I think James would appreciate Lloyd's affability and a connection with his friend's "faith".
Damn, I should have read this before I posted - I recommended Cedars as well!
Elena Simon Thank you for sharing your suggestions with James. I'm also interested in how people stumble across my content, too.
Thanks for the suggestion, Elena! I have subbed to Ceders.
I would love it if you could come to Charlotte or Charlotte Area... I would love to shake your hand.
Awesome!
17:59 Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. love that guy.
If everyone embraced James's philosophy, it would be a better world.
What equipment do you use? the video and sound quality is good
This is over of my favorites
James seems to be an amazingly kind, wise, honest and good guy.
Even though I can't agree with all his views, I think the world would be quite a nice planet if more people shared his attitude.
DerKatzen Fuerst Thanks for your comment. Yes, he and his wife both seem like really great people.
Very commendable the way you stayed on topic, he's such a nice guy it must have been almost painful to try and wrangle the conversation back in. One suggestion, when you got the push back about drawing the line at physical violence, taking a slightly less extreme stance, for example a white nationalist who perhaps doesn't want to hurt other races but wants to relocate them, may have driven home that beliefs implicitly engender our actions, and having a way to determining how accurate those beliefs are, is vital to an altruistic and healthy society. That's just my view though, great talk!
Cemetery Confessions That's a great suggestion. Thank you! And thank you for watching.
What a chill dude
It strikes me watching this and having watched other videos where Faith gets its usual regular name-drop that under the right circumstances people can be persuaded to do almost anything in the name of Faith. Whilst everyone that Anthony speaks to uses it with the sincerest of intentions it seems however that they also typically fail to see the inherent danger in their acceptance of and use of Faith. As Anthony points out, it can be fairly easily shown that in almost every other regard Faith is not a reliable method yet in this one area people will regard it as effectively infallible. Strange that......
I personally think that the reason for this is that religion always comes down to faith at its foundation. Since religion imo seems to have to be faith based they're willing to accept it in this specific instance.
Anthony, what do you say to someone who says they don't want to give up their belief, even if it's wrong, as long as it's not hurting anyone, it gives them comfort and they don't try to influence rules or laws being based on their possibly false beliefs to restrict the actions of others?
It would seem at that point that their belief isn't harmful really, even if it's false. Guess he just didn't really care. Some people just don't put as much importance in trying to shed false beliefs in their life. Good interview. Thanks
Robert Liles The conversation should then shift to why they have such a little valuation of truth, and are they just saying it, or do they really live by it. See my "water bottle" example on the video Stealing Truth.
ok
I would point out the following (in a far more tactful manner than what follows):
People who can make large decisions on bad, little, or no evidence often make poor choices.
Having millions of people who think it's fine to go through life with this mind set, and then vote in politicians who believe the same, are not "not harming anyone".
They are easily led into group think mind sets and we end up spending years and massive resources doing things like litigating over who has to bake a cake for who or having court case after court case ruling on teaching creationism in schools.
This is not the hallmark of a bunch of people who "aren't harming anyone" and anyone who agrees with their principle system for deriving truth, let alone the specific belief structure, is passively supporting them.
Very good. Cool people. I think you got that pebble in his shoe.
He did say nothing can change his mind, but at least he admitted he could be wrong. Great guy; I'd drink a beer with him any day!
That line about interracial relationships isn't as far fetched as you think. I was taught that interracial relationships were wrong in my church growing up. Luckily I didn't believe it then and still don't now. Some churches around where I live still teach that. I think James would be happy to know we don't all hold to the ways we were raised in and in this instance he could see the value in it, especially as a real life example.
Good one.
Hi Anthony Magnabosco, i'm new here and i have a question. Did you ever interviewed a jewish person if yes could probably you put a link below and if not this would be very interesting Interview.
Hans Peter To the best of my knowledge, no. Not yet.
I really Love your interviews. I was raised jewish religious and I believed my whole life in god. But
one day a few things didnt made sense anmore. Since then I started to do
reseach and i decided, that this wasnt my path. So i started to learn
about science and i loved it. Everything made sense, when something was
unclear nobody declared, that this has to be the truth and i wanted to
be part of this whole science thing. But really religios people, in
this situation ultra-orthodox jews, try to avoid or change scientific
findings, until their religion fits. That made me kinda sad. But now you showed me a way to discuss about ,,supernatural" things in a polite way. Thank you very much!!! (btw i
really cannot good english, sry for my german Grammatik and long text).
Hello. Thanks for sharing your story and your kind words.
@Anthony when it comes to these kind of talks, do you think it's important to let ppl know that they can take a second if they need to think about an answer first, and that you're not their to judge them.
I'm just going off my own experience, but I would think those would be important to preface at the start of the conversation.
Eugene Coleman While I definitely feel that way, it could probably be helpful to actually verbalize it. I think I’ve been doing that here and there since this video was recorded, but not every time. That’s really good advice.
@@magnabosco210 thanks for the reply, I think you do an amazing job. That was just something that came to mind while watching.
Excellent. .defo a light came on in his head...yes a a bit of stubbornness. .but that's to be expected....
Part 2 please!
pr2j Wouldn't that be great? Hopefully one day.
I'll be waiting. Please continue the great dialogues. Really good stuff.
Love this guy.
What a lovely guy! If all religious people were like James...
i wanted to try and critique your stuff a bit maybe something you can try next time but you have much more experience than me in this but i thought maybe this could help, i noticed you asked him why he believes and he said he was raised to believe it, maybe you could follow it up with why would you believe something just because you were raised to instead of talking about all the things he believes because of that that basis i think it would lead to a more fruitful discussion but all love for you anthony keep it up.
My OCD was off the charts when he couldnt find his marker 😂😂
6:00 When he says "I've seen things that I believe only god could've done that", since he already admitted that he could have been raised without the belief and not hold the belief today, a good question to follow that would be "if you were raised differently and didn't have this belief and saw the same things, what explanation might you have for them?"
Yes, that would be a good question!
Nice people, good talk.
is he the coolest person Anthony's ever met....possibly and i've watched an unhealthy number of these! Someone make a playlist of the coolest people magnaman has met!....(i have a feeling it will be full of hot chicks...because this youtube..)
Awesome
Great conversation. I can't help but wonder if the commentary at the end is counter intuitive. Everyone who is interested in what you do can see these things for themselves, but if somebody finds the video later, it could make them needlessly defensive. Not that you are wrong, or being offensive in anyway. It's just really easy to say the wrong thing, or even accidentally edit your commentary in a way that is easily misinterpreted.
dwightfry99 good point
dwightfry99 I think it's important to capture my thoughts about the conversation shortly after it happens. Perceptions be damned. Any necessary carifications can happen by simply messaging me here :-)
I think you are totally in the right to add the commentary if you want. I honestly don't think anyone should obsess about censoring themselves in their personal live, but in the context of street epistemology, you are sorta pulling the rug out from under the intent of what you are doing. I would personally not care to know your beliefs on anything simply because it's not the point of these videos. I'm terrible at leaving my opinion out of it and sorta look to people like you to show me how to stay clear for the sake of the conversation. And to be perfectly frank, I am also concerned that first reactions aren't the best reactions. James said he was going to be thinking about this stuff the rest of the day, shouldn't you do the same?
If I might offer a suggestion, do a vlog where you discuss some of the best conversations you had (and unaired commentary). Give yourself time to reflect and think about the conversation before commenting on it publicly. It'll preserve that separation between your beliefs and the study of such beliefs.
EDIT: Accidentally said your name instead of James.
dwightfry99 I agree with a lot of this. Also if this gets bigger that may give fuel to detractors.
You should include in your line of questioning what if suddenly an alien landed in a spacecraft came up to you and said I am your creator would that change your mind.
like the mans honesty
I really like this guy.
I mean I mean the guy he questioned and his wife, seem like great people.
@22:20 And that's what it's all about, getting people to think about the reasons they believe in something.
If you were to step backwards about 3 feet, it looks like all three of you could be in the shade
not sure how hot it was out there or the time of day, but his wife seemed like she was always in the sun, and he was popping in and out of the shade
Daniel Manahan Thanks for your concern. There's a bit of nuance that most people will miss regarding where we chose to stand during the inteview, so bear with me as I try to explain a few things.
First, please know that I am VERY cognizant of where everyone is standing in relation to the sun and available shade, particularly on hot days, and we usually "settle into" a spot shortly after the introductions.
Second, it's hard to catch at the start because my chest camera was pointing down, but James "anchored" his left arm to the iron post of the structure we were standing near, a signal to me that he was comfortable there.
Also, if James _did_ move into the shade with me, his wife more than likely would not have been able to see him after she returned from the restroom/water fountain, because he would have been obscured by the structure at that point.
When Barbara did come up to us, James didn't give me any indication that he wanted to move from his settled location, so I didn't bring it up.
Next, offering water to both of them was a great opportunity for either to speak up about moving into the shade, but again, it didn't come up, so I didn't push it.
Finally, it may have been a little cramped if we all moved into the shade, so it just kind of made sense in the moment to just plow through it.
I hope that helps shed some additional light on things :-)
thanks
Anthony Magnabosco I too was getting upset that you were being a shade hog. Thanks for explaining the nuance, and for offering water, and for being so respectful
A very honest human
"I can have an intelligent conversation with you"
"I believe in God".
Lol
It surprises me somewhat that I have yet to see anyone get ruffled when you say "a god" or "the god" to them.
This is not in reference to James at all - I made that comment at the start of this video and have now finished watching. But with some of the others I have wondered about that.
Anthony, it would be really interesting to see you interview a Jehovah's Witness. Peter Boghossian (hope I got the spelling right) has stated that JWs are a particularly difficult nut to crack with the street epistemology approach.
Don't JW's have standing orders from their 'elders' to walk when their faith is questioned?
I really don't think JW's are any more difficult to speak with than any other believer. It is more challenging when there's more than one person where the conversation can more easily be thrown off track, so perhaps that's why people tend to say that JW's are more difficult to challenge.
Sure, but isn't there in fact another rule that says they can't engage in any conversation regarding their beliefs if they're alone? Like an actual rule of the church?
propoetide, no there's no such rule.
I saw Peter giving a lecture on street epistemology a few years ago and he stated that of all the people he's tried the method on, JWs appear to be a special case and he's yet to figure out a way to reach them. He gave the impression that it has to do more with their mindset, and I can understand why that would be. JWs are subjected to some very potent indoctrination that affects, not just their beliefs, but their actual pattern of thinking. They cannot be reached with logic. They are conditioned to reject any information or line of reasoning that contradicts their beliefs as being lies, "satanic propaganda", "the wisdom of the world" or "faulty human reasoning" - no matter how factual the the information or how logical the reasoning. They will unashamedly throw logic under the bus, in order to defend their beliefs.
17:49 💯😂
Really nice guy.
Wow. America is a hostile country, full of fear, with HUGE social problems.
At 13:10 he says that if he gets pulled over by the police, his number one job is "to get home at the end of the day".
In Australia, I'd be only worried about getting a traffic violation.
"Wasn't no Santa Claus in my neighborhood" 😒
Street Epistemology encourages people not to believe everything they think.
This is a cool dude.
Again there is a return on the argument : I need a real big evidence to make me change my mind but I did not need a big evidence to make my mind. It takes a little to make someone's mind on a subject. But lots to make them change. Not the same standard. Then from this, this person makes his life on this pillar among others so the stakes get higher on changing a belief than on keeping it. It seems to me that for someone to change his view, there is a prerequisite for them to value truth over comfort. The very interesting part is that it seems that when people are young, the quantity and quality of evidence they need is quite low but has a big print. When they grow up they seem to need quality and quantity of evidence to change their mind (which is proof they are reasonable actually). Even with these, it seems such early beliefs will still remain. Would that be some evolutionary thing with the need to acquire some solid ground and trust to the beliefs adults give you in order to survive ? If so, this would mean that classic argumentation is a very small tool. If I can give a picture of it : people come with a belief that rank them at a certain percentage. Argumentation would just be trying to forcefully replace some of the positive points by negative ones on the belief scale while SE would be helping people substracting positive points. I think SE and argumentation are meant to be subsequential. You need to get to a no presupposition state before then assessing the evidence for or against something. Then argumentation come in. My question to Anthony would be then is it always good to want to truth ? Is it always a good thing to see the world with the fairies ?
James seems like a good dude.