I grew up in this. This is accurate. They also say if you divorce that you can’t remarry Bc you are still in a covenant. I stayed in abuse for 17 years Bc of this. When I fled for my life I filed for divorce. He died two days before it was finalized. Guess how much guilt and pain my and his Christian family heaped on me for that. I am LUCKY to be alive and somehow sane. This shit is poison. I was beaten for 17 years. Raped. All of it. Bc god. 🤮
@@WithoutACrystalBall thank you. And thank you for the work that you do. I understand this world deeply. I was born in it. My dad was a pastor. I was a music /worship leader and teacher in Christian schools until I was 37 and fled for me and my kids life. Katie please keep trying to help people understand. Anna’s motivation is not $ although I’m sure it’s a fear with all the kids. But it’s truly feeling like a caged animal. She’s terrified. It’s not just her marriage - she believes that her kids eternal salvation hinges on her choice. It’s so much guilt and brainwashing. She really needs real help.
Are people allowed to get remarried if a spouse dies in this cult? Because I could take a guess and say men could, but the woman couldn’t? Do you know?
I am a Christian woman and had a cheating spouse in my first marriage- after our divorce six years later I met my soulmate! I’m still a believer and going stronger than ever God wants us to be happy!!
My mom was very very torn when choosing to leave my dad . He was abusive and cheated with many many women . But her preacher at the time explained some times divorce is ok with the way he broke the vows he made her . God forgives when situations like this happens I wouldn’t think he would want her with him but I guess we really don’t know ..
When will these people realize all of these rules were put together by domineering, abusive, small D energy “men” who haven’t accomplished anything of real meaning? Condoning abuse in any form is repulsive.
Anna says “I would turn a mess into a disaster”. No, Anna. This is 100 percent on him. No matter how you react and what the fallout is, IT IS ON HIM. 100%
She has been taught that if Josh sins that it is because of her sin. Its her job to love him and redeem him by her suffering. This is so toxic and sad. My heart break for the kids.
of course this is just my opinion, But if the tables were turned I think Josh would run far from Anna and the whole Duggar family would shame her and shun her,, Where this they expect her to stay and support and want everyone to just pray.
That's the damage of emotional abuse, they abandon you when you make a mistake but God forbid you mess up and tarnish their image, you're in deep trouble.
I think that is most families though. I know my family always back each other no matter what or least we do it publicly. You know you can talk about your family but as soon as someone else does the fights on. I think in this case though the Duggers are probably more worried about losing the show. That’s millions of dollars and they going to be popping out hundreds of Dugger. Truthfully if any of my male cousins got arrested for this I wouldn’t believe it either. I would have to see the evidence not just what media reports but I wouldn’t let my kids be around them alone.
Without a doubt not only the Duggars but her parents also, and I wouldn't doubt if the church didn't try to get the Duggars to get custody if she did something that horrible.
I am a Christian (not fundie) I am also divorced. I was in an abusive relationship. The biggest thing I dealt with was forgiveness. I hated my ex for what he did to me and our kids. I know that if I want God to forgive me I have to forgive others. I’m working on that. What Anna should be focusing on is the harm that’s being done to her children. When they are older they will find out what he has done and they will suffer for it. She needs to think of them right now. She needs to get out. Her mental health will effect her kids and that’s not fair to them to continue to put up with Josh’s disgusting behavior
Christian here too. The thing is, forgiveness doesn’t mean that what they did was right or ok, but it releases you from the hurt/anger/bitterness you hold towards that person. Like with my mom: she’s a toxic narcissistic person who is very manipulative and has hurt me many times. I forgive her, but I don’t have a relationship with her. I don’t hold onto the anger towards her and have released her of that but I don’t condone the things she’s done and I don’t continue a relationship with her. ❤️
@Lynn Williams I’m so glad you got out and are now safe and at peace. I did the same for the same reasons back in 1991. May you be blessed all the days of your life for saving yourself and your kids from DV etc.
I struggled with this too. I hate how my ex abused out children and have severed all ties. I can not trust him. I can have compassion that he is unhappy and quite possibly traumatized for some reason. I can flee his abuse but I cannot judge his motives.
Agree, and how messed up those kids probably are seeing Anna cry and possibly fall apart and they don’t know hopefully what their Dad is about, all they know is he’s gone. Any semblance of a normal life is over for them on every level.
I remember that interview... she had said flat out " if I was reacted to what i was feeling..." . So obviously she knows she felt anger and rage but she knows she cant leave. Sucks. She has no job skills or education to even go out on her own
Right because Josh was sick before he married Anna so it's not her fault or ever was it. Jim Bob knew his son was sick and yet he let Josh ruin Anna's life? I think Jim Bob is a sick man as well.
Emotions are a gift from God. They are to serve as red flags, Anna. Of course, we can't always trust them, but it's pretty obvious when emotions are not to be trusted. In this case, trust your God-given emotions.
Her family is in the same cult, they also were made aware of what Josh did to his sisters and they still “allowed” her to court him. They also continued to push her to stay with him after the affairs as well. It’s SICK!
Hopefully one of those escaped siblings can help her see the light and get out of there. There’s no way that greasy douchelord is a great husband and she genuinely wants to stay.
@@susantheriault6348 I get that she's seriously brainwashed and at least emotionally abused (maybe worse). That's why unfortunately someone from the outside either her family or the state etc. Need to intervene. She won't figure out her options on her own. Sad.
She Should sue the Duggers for millions . She should go to home land security and become a witness and show her kids the right way to handle pedophiles
Not only that, I would also surmise that based on those beliefs, and in the absence of their father, JB is the reigning patriarch of the family, and Josh and Anna’s children are now his possession.
He kissed her so hard on their wedding day which made her keep rubbing her jaw. If he was rough with her she would not have anything to compare it to. Also on other episodes,Josh treated her unkindly. Anna was made to believe he strayed because of her. So sad
You know, I noticed that as well and it made me cringe ! I can just imagine the rest but wouldn't say it here. And, you are correct Anna was made to believe Josh's perverted behavior was her fault. What a disgusting situation for her and her children to be in! She needs intervention and de-programming!
I remember that episode of their wedding day/night. So bizarre and cringy. He probably rushed into it and forceful. She wouldn't know any different either.
How could she ever trust her husband with their children?? I’m worried about their children. I’m worried about their nieces, nephews and younger siblings!!
Exactly! Because when I first heard this story, my first thought was, I wonder if he has been messing with his kids? Anybody with common sense would wonder that. It certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
we don't know any of that, we don't need to know. if this was just an ordinary every day family minus the media coverage we wouldn't even know about it, just because they're on tv doesn't mean we're entitled to every detail of their lives. I'm sure she's weighing alot of things on her mind that she isn't sharing with anyone, everyone has a breaking point and she will reach hers. I grew up watching my mom being tossed around like a rag doll by her second husband after split with my dad and it did have an affect on me, but I also understand why she couldn't leave at the time she feared for her life, and for all we know so could this woman if this cult is that crazy about saving marriages imagine what could happen if she considers divorce. It's not that easy that's why it's abusive.
Oh geez, Anna would make millions with a tell-all book! I hope Anna realizes she has the support of a nation if she decided to leave Josh. God loves marriage, but God does not love abuse.
As well as the babies. If Anna's portly papa and her mama love their daughter, they would fly to wherever and demand she leave. They would physically rescue her and her children. She is still their little girl.
AND BTW...if these jokers are eager to use Law from the Hebrew Bible, they are ignoring the almost 2,000 years of legal scholarship which attend to the Law. Rabbinic Law does NOT forbid divorce, and even has cases in which one MUST divorce. Also, from the start, Gd is NOT part of marriage, aside from allowing it and being a witness of it. Marriage that is based on Rabbinical Law is contractual between the spouses and correct witnesses.
@@helixmoore7636 adultery is the only cut-and-dry reason to leave in the Bible. I agree with you though, for example a woman should not have to stay in an abusive marriage, children with an abusive parents. The Bible is clear about how God feels about causing harm to children.....
If child protective services intervenes to protect the children, then maybe They might be removed from Anna’s care due to her refusal to protect them from Josh.
Maybe if CPS intervenes this will be her wake up call...maybe not...she will just wait 40 years for him to get out....hopefully he goes to prison before he can father any more children
You're right. C.P.S. needs to be contacted for the sake of these kids. I wish I had their phone number and address so I can forward this information to Child Protective Services.
@@bonniejohnson760 please believe they are definitely involved, we just aren't going to hear about it. The FBI is serious business and CPS is doing their thing.
You are soooo right. These people are in a Cult trying to parade under the guise of Christianity. They need to wake up because God does not intend for his people to stay in a toxic loveless marriage. These people need to seek God for guidance and stop listening to a Cult leader, Divorce was designed for a reason.
I just think she has gotten used to the money that his family has and did without so much that she justifies staying because she know she’d and those children would have nothing if she left. He family has nothing...extremely poor.
God did not put us on earth to suffer and to remain married to abusers, adulterers or child molesters. Amazing that the founder of this cult rewrote the Bible to his own specifications. I thought that was God's job? Isn't one of the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not commit adultery".
During the interview with Anna about Joshes infidelity, her voice , cadence and tone, body language was Michelle. You can tell his mother has been counseling her intensely
I got my Niece to finally leave her abusive husband. And later on down the road she got with someone else. I informed him, if you hurt my niece I will coming hunting for you. He never hurt her. Unfortunately he was murdered in Des Moines Iowa several years ago. He was out bike riding with the older kids. And they wanted to go home. So they went home and he still was riding around. He was attacked my several teenagers. They beat him to death.
It's not that she's just "not leaving him", this girl is over there thinking deep down SHE caused Josh to be a sick pervert and HER sins brought all this on her family. Makes me want to scream.
She's still going through the 7 grief steps. She's at the anger stage, pissed off at Josh's family, Joe Biden, anyone but Josh. If they put him in an out of state prison she may never see him again.
@@lyndseyld2987 I have been through grief more than I care to count. It takes time that we have to be patient crisis. Nothing is solved with flich of a fist. At some point after acceptance for me I realuze. Of all the people in the world God chose that person for me to connect with. So in heaven I will only be surrounded by loving people.
@@juliacannon9682 I've never really follow the Duggars I just started watching these things when Josh was arrested for possession of child pronography. I did see some stuff back when their show was first on and thought it was disgusting. That being said with my limited knowledge I don't think Jana is gay. I think she's just been stuck raising these kids. Maybe she doesn't want to get married.
Isn't cheating already breaking the covenant of marriage? Anna wouldn't be the one breaking the covenant through divorce, it was already broken when Josh cheated. All their rules are to protect men and let them do anything they want. If a wife had cheated, it would be a whole different set of standards.
I think I read somewhere that it's the woman's responsibility to please her husband in every way possible and if she doesn't , and he cheats, the fault lies with her.
@@Dakotagirl823 That's correct. A wife must be "joyfully available" at all times for their husbands even if what he wants her to do is not what she wants to do. It's marital r@pe. ~ Anastacia in Cleveland ETA: Michelle Duggar herself has led seminars and taught women about this idea of marriage and what is expected of them as wives.
Sadly this cult does not believe that cheating breaks the marriage covenant. They believe it’s a sin, but not a reason for divorce. Basically, if the husband is cheating, it would be the wife’s duty to remain married and pray for him to repent and restore the marriage. She would still be bound to the marriage covenant. So gross.
At a minimum 5-10 years in prison and then register as a sex offender for life and not likely ever be able to live with his children again. He really screwed up this time. I hope Anna has the dignity and self worth to leave.
@@Justagirlnamedshawn But then, in steps Jim Bob to take on daddy duty because he IS the reigning patriarch. Isn't that a terrible thought. I hope her brother can talk some since into her. Or just come and take her and the kids in the middle of the night.
@@Chronically_Kimberly true. But she has the support of her siblings and I’m sure they would be so happy to help. They’ve been raised in the same cult but these circumstances with Josh are concerning enough that even they believe Anna should divorce him. She needs to realize her marriage isn’t what she signed up for. There’s no coming back from this one for Josh. He’s toast.
Josh himself doesn't believe in the sanctity of marriage that he preaches. It seems that maybe the only way to get Anna to leave him would be to set Josh up with a trans woman who still has some male anatomy. Then have that person come forward to tell all with receipts. It would be for a good cause, though I can't imagine why any trans woman would want to be with Josh, even for the greater good. It would be asking a lot.
To see Josh lecturing about what is right in the beginning is laughable, pure hypocricy. These are the dumbest, most backward thinking people I've ever heard about. There is literally NO reason, child abuse, spousal abuse, etc, that would justify a divorce. That aside, if these things did happen, it's the woman's fault anyway, so she can't leave, since it's HER fault. These people are nuts!
Honestly, her initial reaction to the Ashley Madison scandal seemed realistic to me--she had several chuldren with the man, from her perspective he appeared to be a good husbaand, father, and provider, and her entire life had been built around his and his family. It makes perfect sense to not immediately leave all of that, slow down, and refuse to make a life altering decision like ending a marriage based on your immediate emotional reaction. That said, as the original scandal morphed and grew and echoes continued to ripple over the years, it's become more than apparent that Josh's behavior not only didn't change with regards to loyalty to his spouse, but was in fact much more disturbing and darker in nature. Now, especially since it has been an entire year since the investigation began and Anna has had more than enough time to contemplate her options, it's pretty clear that this is not a rational decision on her part. For me, it's just hard to compare the two--one is realy and truly a private issue between a husband and wife that really only affects how they evidently feel they have the right to treat each other, while the other affects the potential safety of their children. For the first, while I don't personally agree with her decision to stay with him, I can objectively say I understand why she made it. For the second, well, let's just say that if I were a social worker in Northwest Arkansas I would be interviewing those kids extensively. And while I take your overall point, I'm not sure your interpretation of the Wisdom Booklet is completely accurate. The beginning pages do lay out some basic facts of how the Christian religion (pretty much all denominations, btw, including those that fully accept gay marriage) view Marriage and vows made before God--that's why not taking the Lord's name in vain is one of the 10 Commandments and divorce is generally discouraged across the faith in favor of counseling and forgiveness in general. Where the IBLP goes off the ranch, so to speak, is where Gothard starts victim blaming and insisting that even the scriptural exceptions are not real, that marriage is meant to be suffered and endured, and that covenants can never be broken. Everyone agrees that covenenants are not SUPPOSED to be broken, but the rest of the faith acknowledges that people are human and that they still CAN BE when necessary, like in cases of abuse, abandonment, or the like. The distinction is what separates the rest of us from the crazies, and the fact that he starts with basic information that is in fact accurate and familiar to adult Christians is how he sucks in cnverts. IBLP's Quiverfull Fundies are not just born, they're also converted, and it's easy to see how when you look closely at the material they use to do so. It begins with the familiar and then twists until it's off in crazytown--it's important to remember that a good bit of the material is not completely nuts. It's that last 1/3 and the overall presentation that gets people--otherwise perfectly normal, reasonable individuals turn into converted fundamentalist crazies with just the right amount of pressure. So as much talking as you do on this channel to try and get the word out to fundamentalist who might be willing to branch out and "see the light", it's just as important to remind people who mught be on the verge of falling into a trap that it's waiting right there for them.
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I don’t think Anna will leave. These women live a life of learned helplessness. They have any fighting spirit squashed out of them as children and are taught not to question. It’s really sad.
What you are saying is so real! I went through a horrible religious cult. I was married off as a teenager. My life was awful. When I saw the show 19 kids and counting I immediately saw the fake front my family showed the world. I knew there must be bad things going on in that family. It is hard to explain to others. I totally understand the position Anna is in and Josh going to prison would be the best thing that happened to Anna.
That probably won’t happen because his parents has money to get him out of this Drama he brought on him self . But who knows maybe his parents are in the same situation , when they were young and josh has this on them and they don’t won’t it to come out in there wild days When they were young ! So my guess is he will get out , he is already out on home incarceration living with his mom and dads preacher and his wife . they made there daughter move out on her own . So they are all in this together if you ask me . What preacher is going to just drop everything for josh lol 😝 only the ones who have a pass and don’t want josh to get it out SMH 🤦♀️
Their sleazeball of a team of lawyers have probably told her not to say anything that could possibly harm his defense so say nothing is usually the advice.
I’ve been married before the husband I have now ,,, I got a divorce because he was a dog ,,, and I had went though hell and back with that one ,,,, I believe god sent me the husband I have now ,,, I had to get rid of a bad one to get the good one ,,,, so blessed,,,,,, she needs to run and get that divorce,,,,,, I wonder how it will all play out when he gets locked up ,,, hopefully he’ll get locked up for good
This girl is a woman now, and she needs to read The Bible for herself. God says, you can divorce for cheating. What Josh did, is not called cheating. Its called disgusting! God would not have any woman stay with a grown monster. That poor family has so much to recover from. Lord, please help this family xo
And if Anna isn't willing to leave Josh then the courts need to step in and take her children away. If she's going to stay married to a pedophile then she should not be allowed to raise her children - she'll be exposing them to being abused as kids and then as adults especially her daughters because girls are taught to be blindly obedient.
Their honeymoon episode memories are bothering my mind. They were creepy then and I can't imagine how they'll be today if I watch them again knowing what we know now.😫😫
If Josh goes away for 20+ years what is she going to do?! She can't "fulfill her duty" by having kids and she has no means to support herself and her kids. This is all so heartbreaking for her kids especially.
Truth... How I feel ... If Anna Stands by Josh and Stays ... CPS should remove all the children and Anna can keep her Vows to her Loving hard Working Husband (as she calls him) ... 😱😵 ... Makes me sick to my stomach 🤢
I grew up going to the Basic Youth Conflicts seminar in the 80s. My parents followed these teachings for the most part, although (oddly) I did go to public middle/high school. The brainwashing is REAL. I think what is hard for a lot of people to understand is just how ingrained these teachings are. She would lose most of her family relationships, from what it sounds like that would be both sets of grandparents and oodles of cousins, aunties, etc. She would most likely be cut off from her entire community as she knows it. It’s leaving her husband, his entire family, her parents, her church/IBLP community, pretty much everyone except her siblings who have left the cult. Looking from the outside we can see that this is what needs to happen, but I have empathy for her and her most difficult situation. I truly hope she can find the strength to start a new life away from this cult and all of the oppression that comes along with it. I have two siblings (including spouses/nieces/nephews/cousins) who shunned me after my husband left me many years ago, for dating someone 5 years post-divorce. I was “breaking the marriage covenant” because they said in God’s eyes I was still married and bound to that covenant. They believe the only way the covenant is broken is if the (ex) spouse dies or remarries. Being shunned by loved ones is very painful, especially when there are innocent children involved. They still shun me (12 years).
We were in a similar-style church. Some family members are still.I find it interesting that you felt brainwashed even going to public school. Were you around IBLP friends at school? Did you do the Character studies or other things for family devotions? Or Wisdom Booklets? We got into our ulta-conservative church inour late 30s and most of our children switched to their Christian School. It had a different effect on our children than I realized.They have talked about pressures they felt that I didnt realize.. I am so sorry.
I bet if Michelle got down and dirty with the pool boy Jimbob would divorce her so FAST. Maybe when Josh is in the big house Anna will find her groove.
I really feel sorry for her, where is she going with 7 kids, i only. Hope at the end of the day She has enough money to get herself and her children far enough away from the Duggars She has been a victim through this whole marriage. Also PS. SHE IS NOT LEAVING HIM He’s probably going to jail for the next 20 years.
I think Anne is your blackmail Jim Bob and get enough money for her to survive her kids are 18. She can threaten to tell the court everything she knows.
She can sue the Duggers for millions. Millions .she has enough dirt on them to be set for the rest of her life if she had any courage or integrity. She’s a horrible example to her kids
There's lots of help out there these days, especially in her case! She should have no problem getting a good, safe place for her and children , WITHOUT help from JB.
My X husband still believes I'm coming back to him. I've been gone for 22 years. I was groomed for 4 years to be the perfect wife. One of the things I was told by my X was that if I left I would die. They teach you that you're not smart enough to survive on your own and if you do manage to leave they try to get your children.
I'm sorry that happened to you and I hate it that this is Anna's reality in the midst of being pregnant, raising 6 children on her own atm AND dealing with the ish that her husband has done. Not to mention it's world wide news...😢
If I remember right, on one of the episodes prior to Josh and Annas wedding, Josh mentioned to Anna's father that he had shared some struggles he had as a young teen and that God had healed him of those struggles. Check it outl
I hope Anna wakes up and realizes she is worth so much more than this. Btw, I have been listening to the podcast I Pray You Put This Journal Away. It's great and eye opening to hear from someone so close to the family.
@@piscesprincess3339 that’s exactly why I’m so glad I found her! I stopped watching them years ago too. I love being able to learn more about this cult.
I agree! Any other person that is not famous would have their kids taken from CPS and would loss custody of their children. I would speculate that Josh probably touched his children. It makes me sick
I feel so bad for her. She honestly just seems like a prisoner. 😪 I pray she can one day be free and feel what it's like to be treated well and be loved.
Don’t feel sorry for her one bit..l..she knew of his molestation of his sisters, and his Dolly Madison involvement......why lay down with a puke like him......and get knocked up again??????????
In a perfect world I picture Anna getting the divorce, Josh goes to jail for a long time and Anna remarries down the road and is so happy and so loved that she can’t even believe she wasted one minute with Josh. Anna if you’re reading this by any chance please know that God exists outside of Bill Gothard’s teachings. You can still be loved and accepted by God after a divorce, in skirts or pants, without Josh. God loves you enough to want you to be happy and to be with someone who will worship the ground you walk on.
True. Hopefully he won't get out of prison until Anna is post menopausal. Then, he'd be scummy enough to accuse her of infidelity and dump her for the youngest woman he can find to replace her.
It is more than Anna deciding to stick with him or not. If you are taught from the time you are a baby to do whatever you are told, the first time a parents commands you, ex blanket training, where you get a smack everytime you start doing a normal developmental thing like get curious and crawl off the blanket, you are conditioned to be obedient. Add the teachings then you are kind of open to believing it because you experience Stockholm Syndrome. There are always those who learn to think for themselves, but it isn't easy to get to that point. There are always those, like Josh, who are predators and know how to present the expected persona in order to get away with doing what they want and pretend to feel real remorse when caught. It is a struggle to get past that teaching. She has been taught since she was a child to obey her husband and forgive him no matter what he has done. I wouldn't expect much change until she turns 40. That is when my mom got out of the house, got therapy, took courses to gain self confidence, and started going to the gym. Within months she divorced my father and moved on. She realized she was middle aged and still being ab*sed and wanted more out of life. It isn't so black and white. Anna may never leave him even if he goes to prison.
I do think the way she was raised has a part in her staying. But she probably also feels financially stuck. JB is funding them and that’s the only way she is able to take care of her kids. How could she Just leave while pregnant and get a baby sitter for 6 kids ? Plus she has no education to get a high paying job and minimum wage is not gonna do it for 7 kids, rent/bills plus the baby sitter fee. I would also imagine her being afraid of leaving them Alone with anyone at all... after all this... She is truly stuck. And probably wracking her brain as to how to navigate it. If she publicly bashes josh, the Duggar’s will cut ties and she will have no help. I think maybe she’s hoping if she publicly responds how JB wants her to, that he will still take care of her and kids after josh is sentenced to jail. I don’t think she will ever leave them alone with him again.and of course I could be totally wrong about all of this, this is just what I imagine. I’m also not saying this is the correct way to think but I could understand it bc she has no where to run. Her family believes the same way. And you never know, she may have reasons she doesn’t want her kids to live around her family..... Either way I rly hurt for her. I think she’s a good person and didn’t deserve to be paired with josh and his sick ways. It’s rly sad to see a rly sweet, loving person be so broken and publicly embarrassed. And not to mention, very stuck in a situation she did nothing to deserve .., Oh and I forgot to mention... I would imagine that if she got bold and tried to leave, the duggar$$$$ would layer up and take her kids away. She’s willing to tolerate anything as long as she can be present and protect her kids.
I think if her in laws are using her being “taken care of” financially that may make her stay bc the woman are scared to leave, especially if they have no work experience, 6 children, and are pregnant. Girl, get a lawyer involved and get out. I wish she could reach out to Jill or her own family to help her. It will be tough but she can do it and I’m sure she will have a support system.
Anna was already broken and vulnerable ever since she’s been on the show she’s always looked a little off even when she was in courtship with josh. She won’t leave she’s too brainwashed to know better and what’s really out there.
So, let me ask a question. Do these couples get a legal marriage license? Since marriage is between you and god and not allowing the law into it, wouldn’t that make a marriage license worthless to them?
As a mother of 7 small children. With her family living in FL. They also belong to the same quiverful type of church. She would likely have to move back in with her parents or a sibling. I am pretty sure she was homeschooled. So depending on the family laws in her state it could be quite complicated. She may feel safer staying married unfortunately. If she is abused as well. It can be hard proving a case.
I don't believe Anna will leave Josh ever. Even if he goes to prison for forty years. She will wait for him thinking any day he will get out. Her life will past by and her dreams will die but she will wait. It is very sad. She is so deep into this I know think she'll ever try to get out.
In my opinion, Josh was never truly married to her. Why? Because he lied to her (obviously) before they were married. She was naive and expected he was a man who wanted a woman and wanted to be married. He married her anyway. However, he knew he had this awful addiction and obviously that had not changed from the time he was a young teenager. He couldn't commit to any marriage because of his addiction. The vows he took were not and are not valid. They clearly state "... keep her only unto him as long as they both shall live..." Obviously the vows he took were falsely made. A worry is that their children are in danger from Josh. I'm sure she has to know this. Josh has cheated on Anna in the worst way possible. This makes me so sad!!
My favorite is the one where Josh says that because they never kissed before marriage, Anna can trust him with anything after marriage. That one evoked some spontaneous laughter from me.
Basically he can do whatever despicable, disgusting, vile thing and she just has to deal with it. I find it interesting that abuse(spousal, and child ) and sexual abuse etc. isn’t mentioned at all. Sounds like that must be expectable! Repulsive 🤢 and beyond gross 🤮
THANK GOD. Finally, we have a channel that is making the distinction between Gothard's teachings and what the BIBLE actually teaches! Lots of critical thinking required of all of us with this situation. Anna thinks that to reject her husband is to reject God. I just pray that SOMEONE is able to reach her. Anna, you will still be a Bible-believing Christian...read the Bible for yourself as one of your own children would and you will see how you have been misled. YOU have done nothing wrong.
With all these rules for a covenant marriage, you would think they would wait until they know someone really, really ,well, and at least be in your mid 20s rather than jump into a marriage in your teens . No wonder Jana is single. Absolutely frightening.
I am so concerned that there is more information to come out yet. Josh has been allowed/enabled to grow in his predatory behaviors all these years. I pray that I’m wrong but am so legitimately worried there’s more. If there is nothing at all to hide, let those children be interviewed! Make sure those babies are okay. By a professional!
Was in a marriage for 13 years. It wasn't a good team situation. Very much a "you take care of me "situation. I am christian. I believed my vows so much I had to accept that I'll most likely go to hell for leaving him to get the guts to kick him out. As long as my daughter gets to heaven that's all that matters. But Anna has to be willing to make that large a belief sacrifice for her kids..... It was when I realized my marriage wasn't prospering anyone anymore and my daughter was being neglected while I was working long hours and overtime while he was home playing video games. You just have to say Id rather suffer hell than hurt my kid.
The look on Anna’s face, is PURE FEAR! She’s afraid to move. Was she in that Religion before she met Josh? JB and Michelle have done a number on her, ever since that cheating thing. And I’m sure Josh hasn’t been treating her with respect! After all he is her MASTER! They are just SICK!
Yes. Her parents are just as bad as the Duggars. They would be shamed if their daughter divorced. They basically gave her to Josh. Josh and Anna had just met each other a couple of times before he proposed.
My mom is still deep in mormonism and in grief about her afterlife because my dad left her. She would have tolerated it forever. She already did, over the kids. I remember her telling me over and over, really reverently but jealously, "you were born under covenant with god, binding you to be our child for all eternity." Except now everything has fallen to crap and she has to settle for upper-middle-heaven with her second husband. She would probably still take my dad back, 40 years divorced, if it meant the upper crust heaven. And she's ok with me not coming with the way I act and think, but because I'll get baptized after I die and I'll be offered another chance, she knows I'll take it. And this is what she believes strongly and every time I have to think about bearing the weight of that in her mind must be absolutely exhausting and there's so much ab(se that has never given them; my mother and Anna and some other women like them any chance to think about how to live outside of the system. ‘‘Freeze-Flight-Fight-Fright-Flag-Faint’’ is a coherent sequence of six fear responses that escalate as a function of defense possibilities and proximity to danger during life-threat." From Dissociation Following Traumatic Stress , Etiology and Treatment, by Maggie Schauer and Thomas Elbert
But in today’s world you have to get a marriage license to be legally married. Back when the Bible was written there was no marriage license. Therefore when they went to the “ law” when they married. they were already going against their own their own teachings.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I grew up in this. This is accurate. They also say if you divorce that you can’t remarry Bc you are still in a covenant. I stayed in abuse for 17 years Bc of this. When I fled for my life I filed for divorce. He died two days before it was finalized. Guess how much guilt and pain my and his Christian family heaped on me for that. I am LUCKY to be alive and somehow sane. This shit is poison. I was beaten for 17 years. Raped. All of it. Bc god. 🤮
I’m so sorry, 😭😭 you did not deserve any of that. You are strong, resilient & so brave. Thank you for sharing
Omg I’m so sorry
@@WithoutACrystalBall thank you. And thank you for the work that you do. I understand this world deeply. I was born in it. My dad was a pastor. I was a music /worship leader and teacher in Christian schools until I was 37 and fled for me and my kids life. Katie please keep trying to help people understand. Anna’s motivation is not $ although I’m sure it’s a fear with all the kids. But it’s truly feeling like a caged animal. She’s terrified. It’s not just her marriage - she believes that her kids eternal salvation hinges on her choice. It’s so much guilt and brainwashing. She really needs real help.
Are people allowed to get remarried if a spouse dies in this cult? Because I could take a guess and say men could, but the woman couldn’t? Do you know?
I am so sorry.
I am a Christian woman and had a cheating spouse in my first marriage- after our divorce six years later I met my soulmate! I’m still a believer and going stronger than ever God wants us to be happy!!
so happy for you!
Good for you!
My mom was very very torn when choosing to leave my dad . He was abusive and cheated with many many women . But her preacher at the time explained some times divorce is ok with the way he broke the vows he made her . God forgives when situations like this happens I wouldn’t think he would want her with him but I guess we really don’t know ..
When infidelity exists in the marriage you can leave your cheating spouse.
Anna needs intense counseling for trauma bonding to a narcissist.
When will these people realize all of these rules were put together by domineering, abusive, small D energy “men” who haven’t accomplished anything of real meaning? Condoning abuse in any form is repulsive.
I agree
This is what I’ve been trying to say for years! It’s nice to know others feel the same way
Give men a little god and this is what you get. Most religion is foolishness made up by men with a need to control. Always has been.
If that could be explained, we would understand why those kinds of mindless beings follow and support men like Trump, Kim Jong, Castro, Hitler etc.
There ya go. Spot on Sonika.
Anna says “I would turn a mess into a disaster”. No, Anna. This is 100 percent on him. No matter how you react and what the fallout is, IT IS ON HIM. 100%
That’s Christianity for you! Putting yourself down!
Anna was ignoring her true feelings, God gave us emotions to guide us through life, to help protect us, etc. Yup...its on him.
@@myadhdlife4869 No that’s NOT Christianity that’s: insanity, lies & twisting of the basic tenets of Christianity.
@@ShellL there are different versions of Christianity. The type I was in was very much like that. Paul’s letters teach that type of thinking.
Fax no printer!
Like baby he already is a disaster, you gotta do by you and your kids
Anna. Josh broke the covenant. Leave him. Time to think of your children. God Bless you.
You are a strong person you can do this.
Amen!! He made that choice and it’s not on her.
She has been taught that if Josh sins that it is because of her sin. Its her job to love him and redeem him by her suffering. This is so toxic and sad. My heart break for the kids.
Oh, but remember. The “men” can do what they want..🤮
Yes
@@dilysgirl8311 If any of the kids get abused by him, they will never forgive her.
The marriage covenant is sacred; protecting your children is more sacred.
Thank you!
100%
Exactly!
Anna is just as quilty by protecting evil. Bottom line
With josh in prison for 40 yrs , maybe jb can take over and give her more children
of course this is just my opinion, But if the tables were turned I think Josh would run far from Anna and the whole Duggar family would shame her and shun her,, Where this they expect her to stay and support and want everyone to just pray.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the cult doesn’t have some type of public punishment for women that do what Josh has done.
That's the damage of emotional abuse, they abandon you when you make a mistake but God forbid you mess up and tarnish their image, you're in deep trouble.
I think that is most families though. I know my family always back each other no matter what or least we do it publicly. You know you can talk about your family but as soon as someone else does the fights on. I think in this case though the Duggers are probably more worried about losing the show. That’s millions of dollars and they going to be popping out hundreds of Dugger. Truthfully if any of my male cousins got arrested for this I wouldn’t believe it either. I would have to see the evidence not just what media reports but I wouldn’t let my kids be around them alone.
Men are treated differently than women.
Without a doubt not only the Duggars but her parents also, and I wouldn't doubt if the church didn't try to get the Duggars to get custody if she did something that horrible.
I am a Christian (not fundie) I am also divorced. I was in an abusive relationship. The biggest thing I dealt with was forgiveness. I hated my ex for what he did to me and our kids. I know that if I want God to forgive me I have to forgive others. I’m working on that. What Anna should be focusing on is the harm that’s being done to her children. When they are older they will find out what he has done and they will suffer for it. She needs to think of them right now. She needs to get out. Her mental health will effect her kids and that’s not fair to them to continue to put up with Josh’s disgusting behavior
She won’t though - her marriage is more important than her kids
If she stays, he children will ultimately end up resenting her. She is protecting him (not her kid's) just like Jim Bob and Michelle
Christian here too. The thing is, forgiveness doesn’t mean that what they did was right or ok, but it releases you from the hurt/anger/bitterness you hold towards that person. Like with my mom: she’s a toxic narcissistic person who is very manipulative and has hurt me many times. I forgive her, but I don’t have a relationship with her. I don’t hold onto the anger towards her and have released her of that but I don’t condone the things she’s done and I don’t continue a relationship with her. ❤️
@Lynn Williams I’m so glad you got out and are now safe and at peace. I did the same for the same reasons back in 1991.
May you be blessed all the days of your life for saving yourself and your kids from DV etc.
I struggled with this too. I hate how my ex abused out children and have severed all ties. I can not trust him. I can have compassion that he is unhappy and quite possibly traumatized for some reason. I can flee his abuse but I cannot judge his motives.
It's not just Anna suffering, the kids suffer too. Look at the behavior they are modeling for their children.
Agree, and how messed up those kids probably are seeing Anna cry and possibly fall apart and they don’t know hopefully what their Dad is about, all they know is he’s gone. Any semblance of a normal life is over for them on every level.
i doubt if any of the children know anything about what Josh has done in the past or now.
Why hasn’t child protective services entered their home? Shouldn’t that be mandatory? It’s far as I know this has not been done
@@kaydefreese7586 if that's the case, then it will be noted on the record and will be used in court
My heart breaks for them. I know what its like to co.e from a broken family system. Takes years to heal.
Anna: I would turn a mess into a disaster.
None of this is her fault! Josh IS a disaster!!
I remember that interview... she had said flat out " if I was reacted to what i was feeling..." . So obviously she knows she felt anger and rage but she knows she cant leave. Sucks. She has no job skills or education to even go out on her own
Right because Josh was sick before he married Anna so it's not her fault or ever was it. Jim Bob knew his son was sick and yet he let Josh ruin Anna's life? I think Jim Bob is a sick man as well.
Emotions are a gift from God. They are to serve as red flags, Anna. Of course, we can't always trust them, but it's pretty obvious when emotions are not to be trusted. In this case, trust your God-given emotions.
Anna knew before she married Josh what he did to his sisters Anna even said so herself.
I'm so curious about how Anna's family have responded. Why isn't someone bulldozing the compound and getting her outta there?!
Her family is in the same cult, they also were made aware of what Josh did to his sisters and they still “allowed” her to court him. They also continued to push her to stay with him after the affairs as well. It’s SICK!
Well not all of her family, I think she has one brother and one sister who have left but her parents are still in it.
Hopefully one of those escaped siblings can help her see the light and get out of there. There’s no way that greasy douchelord is a great husband and she genuinely wants to stay.
@@danikyle9646 Don't forget she is brainwashed! She was brought up in this cult.
@@susantheriault6348 I get that she's seriously brainwashed and at least emotionally abused (maybe worse). That's why unfortunately someone from the outside either her family or the state etc. Need to intervene. She won't figure out her options on her own. Sad.
I think Jim Bob and Michelle are pressuring Anna to stay. They probably won't let her go cause she knows to much.
She Should sue the Duggers for millions . She should go to home land security and become a witness and show her kids the right way to handle pedophiles
She should get a Publisher and a Ghostwriter and a cash advance for a tell-all book; then she can walk away from the whole lot of them.
Not only that, I would also surmise that based on those beliefs, and in the absence of their father, JB is the reigning patriarch of the family, and Josh and Anna’s children are now his possession.
@@Morgansmom1111 yup
@@karenswartz8280 yup
He kissed her so hard on their wedding day which made her keep rubbing her jaw. If he was rough with her she would not have anything to compare it to. Also on other episodes,Josh treated her unkindly. Anna was made to believe he strayed because of her. So sad
You know, I noticed that as well and it made me cringe ! I can just imagine the rest but wouldn't say it here.
And, you are correct Anna was made to believe Josh's perverted behavior was her fault. What a disgusting
situation for her and her children to be in! She needs intervention and de-programming!
Omg he’s a pig! 🤬
I remember that episode of their wedding day/night. So bizarre and cringy. He probably rushed into it and forceful. She wouldn't know any different either.
@@SueP-D .....You said it! ( nothing more to say )👍
He abused the girls before he was engaged or married to Anna
How could she ever trust her husband with their children?? I’m worried about their children. I’m worried about their nieces, nephews and younger siblings!!
She can’t plain and simple
Exactly! Because when I first heard this story, my first thought was, I wonder if he has been messing with his kids? Anybody with common sense would wonder that. It certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
Same. If he has progressed to viewing those types of images and videos, I'm nearly certain that he has abused a child since he has been an adult.
we don't know any of that, we don't need to know. if this was just an ordinary every day family minus the media coverage we wouldn't even know about it, just because they're on tv doesn't mean we're entitled to every detail of their lives. I'm sure she's weighing alot of things on her mind that she isn't sharing with anyone, everyone has a breaking point and she will reach hers. I grew up watching my mom being tossed around like a rag doll by her second husband after split with my dad and it did have an affect on me, but I also understand why she couldn't leave at the time she feared for her life, and for all we know so could this woman if this cult is that crazy about saving marriages imagine what could happen if she considers divorce. It's not that easy that's why it's abusive.
If Josh is gone 20 years at least the kids will be grown when he comes back.
I bet he gets the minimum.
@@sarahpauline4904 It seems like that might happen. :(
Just in time for grandkids. 😢
If he survives that long in prison
@@lh3132 true
Oh geez, Anna would make millions with a tell-all book! I hope Anna realizes she has the support of a nation if she decided to leave Josh. God loves marriage, but God does not love abuse.
I agreed 100 per cent with your comment.
Great job raising your perfect son Jim Slob. This poor girl's life is ruined.
I hope she finds herself and gets out. If she disregards her children the sympathy I have for her will be gone. Protect your kids Anna
She looks like she's jimboobs daughter
"Jim Slob" didn't raise His Son, the other kids did.
As well as the babies.
If Anna's portly papa and her mama love their daughter, they would fly to wherever and demand she leave. They would physically rescue her and her children. She is still their little girl.
AND BTW...if these jokers are eager to use Law from the Hebrew Bible, they are ignoring the almost 2,000 years of legal scholarship which attend to the Law. Rabbinic Law does NOT forbid divorce, and even has cases in which one MUST divorce.
Also, from the start, Gd is NOT part of marriage, aside from allowing it and being a witness of it. Marriage that is based on Rabbinical Law is contractual between the spouses and correct witnesses.
Ugh.....biblically, she is allowed to leave. He committed adultery. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
I know the IBLP is horrible
There are tons of Biblical reasons why a woman can leave a marriage.
@@helixmoore7636 adultery is the only cut-and-dry reason to leave in the Bible. I agree with you though, for example a woman should not have to stay in an abusive marriage, children with an abusive parents. The Bible is clear about how God feels about causing harm to children.....
That's what I said.
@@helixmoore7636 which biblical reasons are there? I can't find many.
If child protective services intervenes to protect the children, then maybe They might be removed from Anna’s care due to her refusal to protect them from Josh.
Maybe if CPS intervenes this will be her wake up call...maybe not...she will just wait 40 years for him to get out....hopefully he goes to prison before he can father any more children
You're right. C.P.S. needs to be contacted for the sake of these kids. I wish I had their phone number and address so I can forward this information to Child Protective Services.
@@bonniejohnson760 please believe they are definitely involved, we just aren't going to hear about it. The FBI is serious business and CPS is doing their thing.
@@lyndseyld2987 Thank you. I'm glad that the Feds and C.P.S. are getting involved.
I was in ATI for many years and am now divorced. What Katie is saying is true.
Thank you for confirming!
I am glad you got out!!
May your future be filled with everything you desire. You earned it
I was in it too. Went through all the wisdom books at least once growing up. It’s true, and pretty messed up.
Was it difficult to get out? Did you just walk away or did they put up a fight? This is so curious to me. Congrats to you, btw ☀️
She gonna be on the phone still listening to him like Warren Jeff’s!
lol
You are soooo right. These people are in a Cult trying to parade under the guise of Christianity. They need to wake up because God does not intend for his people to stay in a toxic loveless marriage. These people need to seek God for guidance and stop listening to a Cult leader, Divorce was designed for a reason.
If I was married to a man like him he'd never see his kids nor hear from me
I just think she has gotten used to the money that his family has and did without so much that she justifies staying because she know she’d and those children would have nothing if she left. He family has nothing...extremely poor.
God did not put us on earth to suffer and to remain married to abusers, adulterers or child molesters. Amazing that the founder of this cult rewrote the Bible to his own specifications. I thought that was God's job? Isn't one of the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not commit adultery".
But you would never be married to him Bc your mindset is already healthy. It takes years of brainwashing. I lived it
@@ilanamillion8942 The " Bible " has been rewritten many times or information like ancient Sea Scrolls
Deliberately left out of the " Bible" ..
I know, she has to think of more than herself, her in laws, her church, her parents.... her kids should be her priority
During the interview with Anna about Joshes infidelity, her voice , cadence and tone, body language was Michelle. You can tell his mother has been counseling her intensely
Her parents are in the cult also.
Nah, she came that way based on her own mother. Her sister acts the same way.
Of corse
What has always creeped me out is that Anna looks just like a Duggar sister 😬 and Josh chose her.
Yes!! I’ve always thought it was creepy too.
She looks just like Josh’s mom in my opinion which is equally weird lol
Do those books say anything about marrying Satan? Cuz Josh is looking a lot like him.
🤣 Right!
🤣💯
She has seemed broken since 2015. It’s really very sad.
She should of left him back then. When her sister was trying to get her to leave.
@@marinemom5630 her sister tried to get her to leave dang why did she not listen
@@marinemom5630 I tried to get my sister to leave her abusive husband and she's still with him 35 years later. Guilt works wonders.
@@natashaw401 because she’s been crushed emotionally & psychologically, so feels completely powerless to achieve anything be herself.
I got my Niece to finally leave her abusive husband. And later on down the road she got with someone else. I informed him, if you hurt my niece I will coming hunting for you. He never hurt her. Unfortunately he was murdered in Des Moines Iowa several years ago. He was out bike riding with the older kids. And they wanted to go home. So they went home and he still was riding around. He was attacked my several teenagers. They beat him to death.
It's not that she's just "not leaving him", this girl is over there thinking deep down SHE caused Josh to be a sick pervert and HER sins brought all this on her family. Makes me want to scream.
She's still going through the 7 grief steps. She's at the anger stage, pissed off at Josh's family, Joe Biden, anyone but Josh. If they put him in an out of state prison she may never see him again.
Good
Isn't depression after anger though 🥺 cause that's where I'm at and it's the worst...depressed Anna makes me worry about $uicide
@@lyndseyld2987 I have been through grief more than I care to count. It takes time that we have to be patient crisis. Nothing is solved with flich of a fist. At some point after acceptance for me I realuze. Of all the people in the world God chose that person for me to connect with. So in heaven I will only be surrounded by loving people.
Joe Biden deserves the anger too tho 🤪
Hope they do send him to one of the worse prisons. Let the prison give Josh due justice. Sentence what the inside chooses.
Maybe this is why Jana hadn't gotten married
Good luck getting a boyfriend now. She’s basically SOL now
@@Morgansmom1111 for real. Her eggs are old for that crowd
@@kaydefreese7586 I'm not saying she is old to have kids, she is old for the IBLP as she doesn't have 20 years to pop out kids
She’s the smart one.
@@ps0195 if I was raised like that I wouldn't have gotten married either
Every person that stays in a bad marriage for the kids to not be "from a broken home", needs to know they are already in one.
Exactly!!!
With all this covenant stuff, I will never wonder why Jana is still single.
Just my opinion i beleive she's gay. Jana shows no interest in men.
Someone needs to stay and raise the siblings.
I wish she would get out n her own.
@@juliacannon9682 I've never really follow the Duggars I just started watching these things when Josh was arrested for possession of child pronography. I did see some stuff back when their show was first on and thought it was disgusting. That being said with my limited knowledge I don't think Jana is gay. I think she's just been stuck raising these kids. Maybe she doesn't want to get married.
Isn't cheating already breaking the covenant of marriage? Anna wouldn't be the one breaking the covenant through divorce, it was already broken when Josh cheated. All their rules are to protect men and let them do anything they want. If a wife had cheated, it would be a whole different set of standards.
I think I read somewhere that it's the woman's responsibility to please her husband in every way possible and if she doesn't , and he cheats, the fault lies with her.
@@Dakotagirl823 That's correct. A wife must be "joyfully available" at all times for their husbands even if what he wants her to do is not what she wants to do. It's marital r@pe. ~ Anastacia in Cleveland
ETA: Michelle Duggar herself has led seminars and taught women about this idea of marriage and what is expected of them as wives.
Sadly this cult does not believe that cheating breaks the marriage covenant. They believe it’s a sin, but not a reason for divorce. Basically, if the husband is cheating, it would be the wife’s duty to remain married and pray for him to repent and restore the marriage. She would still be bound to the marriage covenant. So gross.
that's such a disgusting mentality...
If Anna thinks she not leaving Josh well "if he is found guilty" he will be gone a long time!
At a minimum 5-10 years in prison and then register as a sex offender for life and not likely ever be able to live with his children again. He really screwed up this time. I hope Anna has the dignity and self worth to leave.
Hopefully that bastard will get a long prison term and then his children will be safe.
@@frankie1012 it's not about that though. She's been brainwashed to be a good little wife since she was a child.
@@Justagirlnamedshawn But then, in steps Jim Bob to take on daddy duty because he IS the reigning patriarch. Isn't that a terrible thought. I hope her brother can talk some since into her. Or just come and take her and the kids in the middle of the night.
@@Chronically_Kimberly true. But she has the support of her siblings and I’m sure they would be so happy to help. They’ve been raised in the same cult but these circumstances with Josh are concerning enough that even they believe Anna should divorce him. She needs to realize her marriage isn’t what she signed up for. There’s no coming back from this one for Josh. He’s toast.
Josh himself doesn't believe in the sanctity of marriage that he preaches. It seems that maybe the only way to get Anna to leave him would be to set Josh up with a trans woman who still has some male anatomy. Then have that person come forward to tell all with receipts. It would be for a good cause, though I can't imagine why any trans woman would want to be with Josh, even for the greater good. It would be asking a lot.
Sad that this is true and it would take josh being a little gay over josh literally having cp on his computer
To see Josh lecturing about what is right in the beginning is laughable, pure hypocricy.
These are the dumbest, most backward thinking people I've ever heard about. There is literally NO reason, child abuse, spousal abuse, etc, that would justify a divorce. That aside, if these things did happen, it's the woman's fault anyway, so she can't leave, since it's HER fault. These people are nuts!
It's disgusting
Truly sick for sure!
Honestly, her initial reaction to the Ashley Madison scandal seemed realistic to me--she had several chuldren with the man, from her perspective he appeared to be a good husbaand, father, and provider, and her entire life had been built around his and his family. It makes perfect sense to not immediately leave all of that, slow down, and refuse to make a life altering decision like ending a marriage based on your immediate emotional reaction. That said, as the original scandal morphed and grew and echoes continued to ripple over the years, it's become more than apparent that Josh's behavior not only didn't change with regards to loyalty to his spouse, but was in fact much more disturbing and darker in nature. Now, especially since it has been an entire year since the investigation began and Anna has had more than enough time to contemplate her options, it's pretty clear that this is not a rational decision on her part. For me, it's just hard to compare the two--one is realy and truly a private issue between a husband and wife that really only affects how they evidently feel they have the right to treat each other, while the other affects the potential safety of their children. For the first, while I don't personally agree with her decision to stay with him, I can objectively say I understand why she made it. For the second, well, let's just say that if I were a social worker in Northwest Arkansas I would be interviewing those kids extensively.
And while I take your overall point, I'm not sure your interpretation of the Wisdom Booklet is completely accurate. The beginning pages do lay out some basic facts of how the Christian religion (pretty much all denominations, btw, including those that fully accept gay marriage) view Marriage and vows made before God--that's why not taking the Lord's name in vain is one of the 10 Commandments and divorce is generally discouraged across the faith in favor of counseling and forgiveness in general. Where the IBLP goes off the ranch, so to speak, is where Gothard starts victim blaming and insisting that even the scriptural exceptions are not real, that marriage is meant to be suffered and endured, and that covenants can never be broken. Everyone agrees that covenenants are not SUPPOSED to be broken, but the rest of the faith acknowledges that people are human and that they still CAN BE when necessary, like in cases of abuse, abandonment, or the like. The distinction is what separates the rest of us from the crazies, and the fact that he starts with basic information that is in fact accurate and familiar to adult Christians is how he sucks in cnverts.
IBLP's Quiverfull Fundies are not just born, they're also converted, and it's easy to see how when you look closely at the material they use to do so. It begins with the familiar and then twists until it's off in crazytown--it's important to remember that a good bit of the material is not completely nuts. It's that last 1/3 and the overall presentation that gets people--otherwise perfectly normal, reasonable individuals turn into converted fundamentalist crazies with just the right amount of pressure. So as much talking as you do on this channel to try and get the word out to fundamentalist who might be willing to branch out and "see the light", it's just as important to remind people who mught be on the verge of falling into a trap that it's waiting right there for them.
Thoughtful evaluation
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I don’t think Anna will leave. These women live a life of learned helplessness. They have any fighting spirit squashed out of them as children and are taught not to question. It’s really sad.
What you are saying is so real! I went through a horrible religious cult. I was married off as a teenager. My life was awful. When I saw the show 19 kids and counting I immediately saw the fake front my family showed the world. I knew there must be bad things going on in that family. It is hard to explain to others. I totally understand the position Anna is in and Josh going to prison would be the best thing that happened to Anna.
I’m so glad that you got out!
How can she leave? Her family probably thinks she should stay. How will she support her family?
I cannot wait until he is somebody’s prison girlfriend🤣😂
That probably won’t happen because his parents has money to get him out of this Drama he brought on him self . But who knows maybe his parents are in the same situation , when they were young and josh has this on them and they don’t won’t it to come out in there wild days When they were young ! So my guess is he will get out , he is already out on home incarceration living with his mom and dads preacher and his wife . they made there daughter move out on her own . So they are all in this together if you ask me . What preacher is going to just drop everything for josh lol 😝 only the ones who have a pass and don’t want josh to get it out SMH 🤦♀️
Right! Ah that’ll be so satisfying. I highly doubt his parents money is going to get him out of this . He’s guilty. He’s going to prison.
All rape is awful and not funny. Just saying.
He will be either Tossed Salad Boy or Bubba's Prison Bitch.
He will be going to prison. This is a huge crime. Money won't get him out of it.
She’s had so much pain in her short life already she’s so strong but yet so naive and I assume scared to death
Oh my goodness they definitely take the Bible out of context. What sane Christian leader would deny her a divorce
Patriarchal bs evil.
Their sleazeball of a team of lawyers have probably told her not to say anything that could possibly harm his defense so say nothing is usually the advice.
Noreen......Your right, at least not until everything is finished and the court has made a decision
@@wynnssecret8584 true, as if the wife would leave during this crucial time, it would make joshy-poo look even more guilty
I hope Anna does not blame herself for this. Josh’s predilection for children developed before they even met.
Nevertheless, in their view she was supposed to redeem him, and failed.
I’ve been married before the husband I have now ,,, I got a divorce because he was a dog ,,, and I had went though hell and back with that one ,,,, I believe god sent me the husband I have now ,,, I had to get rid of a bad one to get the good one ,,,, so blessed,,,,,, she needs to run and get that divorce,,,,,, I wonder how it will all play out when he gets locked up ,,, hopefully he’ll get locked up for good
I can't imagine the pain that Anna is feeling.
This girl is a woman now, and she needs to read The Bible for herself. God says, you can divorce for cheating. What Josh did, is not called cheating. Its called disgusting! God would not have any woman stay with a grown monster. That poor family has so much to recover from. Lord, please help this family xo
This is LITERALLY why there needs to be a court ordered divorce.
Dang...
And if Anna isn't willing to leave Josh then the courts need to step in and take her children away. If she's going to stay married to a pedophile then she should not be allowed to raise her children - she'll be exposing them to being abused as kids and then as adults especially her daughters because girls are taught to be blindly obedient.
I feel like that's a power the government shouldn't have.
No but court mandated therapy for children and wives of offenders. Then maybe they would learn the outside world isn’t so bad.
@@silentjustice5657 In cases like this, yes they should. There is clearly no other way she'll leave him except by literal force.
Their honeymoon episode memories are bothering my mind. They were creepy then and I can't imagine how they'll be today if I watch them again knowing what we know now.😫😫
Hopefully TLC pulls them off! They shouldn’t pay Jim Bob to be paid for thier girls show. I’d think they wouldn’t want a show with so much drama!
What happened on their honeymoon? I didn’t see it
Agreed! It was so hard to watch and I wondered how he treated her once he got her behind the bedroom door.
What happened on their honeymoon??
Which episode were those?
If Josh goes away for 20+ years what is she going to do?! She can't "fulfill her duty" by having kids and she has no means to support herself and her kids. This is all so heartbreaking for her kids especially.
No education
So when he goes away how will she support the kids? Will Jim Bob and Michelle support her and the kids? Or will she have to get a job?
@@annamorgan1772 yeah. I'm thinking the in-laws will foot the bill.
I'm afraid she will stay. But when he goes to the "real big house" somebody may make her a widow. And maybe she will be free to wake up.
I think JB would end up trying to marry her off to another one of the brothers.
@@amycasey821 you’re probably right. But anybody is better than him.
@@butterflysnme724 yup
@Lisa Perkett She will NEVER learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@amycasey821 Sounds about right. Incest?
Truth... How I feel ... If Anna Stands by Josh and Stays ... CPS should remove all the children and Anna can keep her Vows to her Loving hard Working Husband (as she calls him) ... 😱😵 ... Makes me sick to my stomach 🤢
She has gotten to point she is not victim, she is complicit.
Get the phrase "human rights" out your mouth, Josh!
The simple truth is that Anna doesn't know what to do. She has no training in making a living. Josh has ruined her life.
I was with my ex 15 years and it was very toxic and it effected me and my kids greatly. I wish I had left sooner
I grew up going to the Basic Youth Conflicts seminar in the 80s. My parents followed these teachings for the most part, although (oddly) I did go to public middle/high school. The brainwashing is REAL. I think what is hard for a lot of people to understand is just how ingrained these teachings are. She would lose most of her family relationships, from what it sounds like that would be both sets of grandparents and oodles of cousins, aunties, etc. She would most likely be cut off from her entire community as she knows it. It’s leaving her husband, his entire family, her parents, her church/IBLP community, pretty much everyone except her siblings who have left the cult. Looking from the outside we can see that this is what needs to happen, but I have empathy for her and her most difficult situation. I truly hope she can find the strength to start a new life away from this cult and all of the oppression that comes along with it.
I have two siblings (including spouses/nieces/nephews/cousins) who shunned me after my husband left me many years ago, for dating someone 5 years post-divorce. I was “breaking the marriage covenant” because they said in God’s eyes I was still married and bound to that covenant. They believe the only way the covenant is broken is if the (ex) spouse dies or remarries. Being shunned by loved ones is very painful, especially when there are innocent children involved. They still shun me (12 years).
I’m so sorry you have been shunned. It’s awful what this cult does & no one deserves it
@@WithoutACrystalBall thank you for your kind words ❤️
🤗💜🤗
We were in a similar-style church. Some family members are still.I find it interesting that you felt brainwashed even going to public school. Were you around IBLP friends at school? Did you do the Character studies or other things for family devotions? Or Wisdom Booklets?
We got into our ulta-conservative church inour late 30s and most of our children switched to their Christian School. It had a different effect on our children than I realized.They have talked about pressures they felt that I didnt realize.. I am so sorry.
it is amazing how people like that end up divorced themselves.
The state needs to come in and the children need to be examined. What he's done is discusting.. Anna must be broken.. I hope she leaves.
I AM SURE HIM BATHING AND CHANGING THESE LITTLE GIRL CHILDREN GAVE HIM THE E########. I AM SURE HE WAS TURNED ON ENOUGH TO ACT
I bet if Michelle got down and dirty with the pool boy Jimbob would divorce her so FAST.
Maybe when Josh is in the big house Anna will find her groove.
Love your hair longer and dark! Thanks for the great Duggar updates. I’m in MO and he’s hired the best legal team he could.
One good thing...When Josh gets out the kids should be grown.🤞
But by then, there may be 80 grandchildren.
You are assuming he will get a just sentence. I bet he will get the minimum. Hope I'm wrong.
I really feel sorry for her, where is she going with 7 kids, i only. Hope at the end of the day
She has enough money to get herself and her children far enough away from the Duggars
She has been a victim through this whole marriage. Also PS. SHE IS NOT LEAVING HIM
He’s probably going to jail for the next 20 years.
I think Anne is your blackmail Jim Bob and get enough money for her to survive her kids are 18. She can threaten to tell the court everything she knows.
She can sue the Duggers for millions. Millions .she has enough dirt on them to be set for the rest of her life if she had any courage or integrity. She’s a horrible example to her kids
There's lots of help out there these days, especially in her case! She should have no problem getting a good, safe place for her and children , WITHOUT help from JB.
And he'll be out just in time to be around dozens of his grandkids by then.
TLC should help her out. Get her a house or some kind of at home work. Only if she stays clear of Josh. Give her a show and call it moving on.
My X husband still believes I'm coming back to him.
I've been gone for 22 years.
I was groomed for 4 years to be the perfect wife.
One of the things I was told by my X was that if I left I would die.
They teach you that you're not smart enough to survive on your own and if you do manage to leave they try to get your children.
You have a ureteral cancer? Not that common.
I'm sorry that happened to you and I hate it that this is Anna's reality in the midst of being pregnant, raising 6 children on her own atm AND dealing with the ish that her husband has done. Not to mention it's world wide news...😢
@@kkdoc7864 my husband does. I'm documenting his journey and no it's not common.
Bill Gothard giving marital advice and has never been married...things that make you go hmmmmmmmm
If I remember right, on one of the episodes prior to Josh and Annas wedding, Josh mentioned to Anna's father that he had shared some struggles he had as a young teen and that God had healed him of those struggles. Check it outl
I hope Anna wakes up and realizes she is worth so much more than this. Btw, I have been listening to the podcast I Pray You Put This Journal Away. It's great and eye opening to hear from someone so close to the family.
It’s like Gothard set people up to be abused if there are no victims. Sickening.
I just recently found your channel. I’m so glad I did. My favourite on RUclips! Love all the Duggar/Fundie content 😊
Me too! I don’t even watch the Duggar’s anymore but I keep up with through Katie and have for like a year. She is super informative.
Same here!
@@piscesprincess3339 that’s exactly why I’m so glad I found her! I stopped watching them years ago too. I love being able to learn more about this cult.
I’m glad! This arrest has given me the space & time to do the deeper dives about this cult that I’ve been wanting to do
@@WithoutACrystalBall Thank you for allowing us to dive deeper into this cult with you!
Anna is a lost cause. Please someone take the kids away.
I agree! Any other person that is not famous would have their kids taken from CPS and would loss custody of their children. I would speculate that Josh probably touched his children. It makes me sick
@@FreeThinker85 Agree 100%
I feel so bad for her. She honestly just seems like a prisoner. 😪 I pray she can one day be free and feel what it's like to be treated well and be loved.
Don’t feel sorry for her one bit..l..she knew of his molestation of his sisters, and his Dolly Madison involvement......why lay down with a puke like him......and get knocked up again??????????
@@barbarabannasch3458 YES! THANK YOU!!!! I thought I was the only one who felt like this.
Yup
In a perfect world I picture Anna getting the divorce, Josh goes to jail for a long time and Anna remarries down the road and is so happy and so loved that she can’t even believe she wasted one minute with Josh. Anna if you’re reading this by any chance please know that God exists outside of Bill Gothard’s teachings. You can still be loved and accepted by God after a divorce, in skirts or pants, without Josh. God loves you enough to want you to be happy and to be with someone who will worship the ground you walk on.
Honestly if she stays with him she won’t end up with more kids, being a single parent may be the best thing for her.
True. Hopefully he won't get out of prison until Anna is post menopausal. Then, he'd be scummy enough to accuse her of infidelity and dump her for the youngest woman he can find to replace her.
And if she comes financially destitute, that’s how she was raised so it won’t be such a change for her
Anna go to your family with kids . Get away from the duggars Anna heal yourself get those kids right get away from them you'll be blessed
It is more than Anna deciding to stick with him or not. If you are taught from the time you are a baby to do whatever you are told, the first time a parents commands you, ex blanket training, where you get a smack everytime you start doing a normal developmental thing like get curious and crawl off the blanket, you are conditioned to be obedient. Add the teachings then you are kind of open to believing it because you experience Stockholm Syndrome. There are always those who learn to think for themselves, but it isn't easy to get to that point. There are always those, like Josh, who are predators and know how to present the expected persona in order to get away with doing what they want and pretend to feel real remorse when caught.
It is a struggle to get past that teaching. She has been taught since she was a child to obey her husband and forgive him no matter what he has done. I wouldn't expect much change until she turns 40. That is when my mom got out of the house, got therapy, took courses to gain self confidence, and started going to the gym. Within months she divorced my father and moved on. She realized she was middle aged and still being ab*sed and wanted more out of life. It isn't so black and white. Anna may never leave him even if he goes to prison.
I do think the way she was raised has a part in her staying. But she probably also feels financially stuck. JB is funding them and that’s the only way she is able to take care of her kids. How could she Just leave while pregnant and get a baby sitter for 6 kids ? Plus she has no education to get a high paying job and minimum wage is not gonna do it for 7 kids, rent/bills plus the baby sitter fee. I would also imagine her being afraid of leaving them Alone with anyone at all... after all this...
She is truly stuck. And probably wracking her brain as to how to navigate it. If she publicly bashes josh, the Duggar’s will cut ties and she will have no help. I think maybe she’s hoping if she publicly responds how JB wants her to, that he will still take care of her and kids after josh is sentenced to jail.
I don’t think she will ever leave them alone with him again.and of course I could be totally wrong about all of this, this is just what I imagine. I’m also not saying this is the correct way to think but I could understand it bc she has no where to run. Her family believes the same way. And you never know, she may have reasons she doesn’t want her kids to live around her family.....
Either way I rly hurt for her. I think she’s a good person and didn’t deserve to be paired with josh and his sick ways. It’s rly sad to see a rly sweet, loving person be so broken and publicly embarrassed. And not to mention, very stuck in a situation she did nothing to deserve ..,
Oh and I forgot to mention... I would imagine that if she got bold and tried to leave, the duggar$$$$ would layer up and take her kids away. She’s willing to tolerate anything as long as she can be present and protect her kids.
Very insightful. I think she should get empathy and concern from others, not judgement. Divorce is just not in her frame of reference.
Amen dear Lord help this woman Anna Duggar
I think if her in laws are using her being “taken care of” financially that may make her stay bc the woman are scared to leave, especially if they have no work experience, 6 children, and are pregnant. Girl, get a lawyer involved and get out. I wish she could reach out to Jill or her own family to help her. It will be tough but she can do it and I’m sure she will have a support system.
More than likely her own family is pushing her to stay.
Anna was already broken and vulnerable ever since she’s been on the show she’s always looked a little off even when she was in courtship with josh. She won’t leave she’s too brainwashed to know better and what’s really out there.
So, let me ask a question. Do these couples get a legal marriage license? Since marriage is between you and god and not allowing the law into it, wouldn’t that make a marriage license worthless to them?
That's a head-scratcher😂
Anna should have left him years ago, never let him see their kids ever again. She needs to protect her kids!!
Ann will get it together. She is a good person. I have friend that left the group. She will have an epiphany 💜
I hope so but she has some really delusional ideas.
Anna Duggar is still young and could still start over with a new life.
6 kids. Pregnant. No job. No money. No family support. Where exactly would Anna go and how would she support 7 kids?
If annas only role is to have Josh’s children, how does that work when he is locked up for 20 years???
As a mother of 7 small children. With her family living in FL. They also belong to the same quiverful type of church. She would likely have to move back in with her parents or a sibling. I am pretty sure she was homeschooled. So depending on the family laws in her state it could be quite complicated. She may feel safer staying married unfortunately. If she is abused as well. It can be hard proving a case.
I don't believe Anna will leave Josh ever. Even if he goes to prison for forty years. She will wait for him thinking any day he will get out. Her life will past by and her dreams will die but she will wait. It is very sad. She is so deep into this I know think she'll ever try to get out.
She won’t have to worry about a divorce, the state will do that for her for about 20 years!!! At least they won’t have anymore children for that!!
Her way of thinking 🤔 is marriage is for better or worse. Unfortunately she is getting the worse!
GOD never meant for better or evil.
In my opinion, Josh was never truly married to her. Why? Because he lied to her (obviously) before they were married. She was naive and expected he was a man who wanted a woman and wanted to be married. He married her anyway. However, he knew he had this awful addiction and obviously that had not changed from the time he was a young teenager. He couldn't commit to any marriage because of his addiction. The vows he took were not and are not valid. They clearly state "... keep her only unto him as long as they both shall live..." Obviously the vows he took were falsely made. A worry is that their children are in danger from Josh.
I'm sure she has to know this. Josh has cheated on Anna in the worst way possible. This makes me so sad!!
I kinda love the videos you find for the intros lol
I work super hard to find them
Ikr .. they’re so cringe but so perfect
My favorite is the one where Josh says that because they never kissed before marriage, Anna can trust him with anything after marriage. That one evoked some spontaneous laughter from me.
Basically he can do whatever despicable, disgusting, vile thing and she just has to deal with it. I find it interesting that abuse(spousal, and child ) and sexual abuse etc. isn’t mentioned at all. Sounds like that must be expectable! Repulsive 🤢 and beyond gross 🤮
So yucky
THANK GOD. Finally, we have a channel that is making the distinction between Gothard's teachings and what the BIBLE actually teaches! Lots of critical thinking required of all of us with this situation. Anna thinks that to reject her husband is to reject God. I just pray that SOMEONE is able to reach her.
Anna, you will still be a Bible-believing Christian...read the Bible for yourself as one of your own children would and you will see how you have been misled. YOU have done nothing wrong.
With all these rules for a covenant marriage, you would think they would wait until they know someone really, really ,well, and at least be in your mid 20s rather than jump into a marriage in your teens . No wonder Jana is single. Absolutely frightening.
Thank you for your hard work and time making all your videos.
For sure
What do you mean "for sure" what about you're welcome.
Maybe once Josh is in prison Anna will leave because Josh will have a boyfriend. That is one of the exceptions for divorce. 🤣
She needs to stay away from All men!
As a super conservative Christian, I can STILL say I disagree with the the idea that there are no exceptions for divorce.
I am so concerned that there is more information to come out yet. Josh has been allowed/enabled to grow in his predatory behaviors all these years. I pray that I’m wrong but am so legitimately worried there’s more. If there is nothing at all to hide, let those children be interviewed! Make sure those babies are okay. By a professional!
Was in a marriage for 13 years. It wasn't a good team situation. Very much a "you take care of me "situation. I am christian. I believed my vows so much I had to accept that I'll most likely go to hell for leaving him to get the guts to kick him out. As long as my daughter gets to heaven that's all that matters. But Anna has to be willing to make that large a belief sacrifice for her kids.....
It was when I realized my marriage wasn't prospering anyone anymore and my daughter was being neglected while I was working long hours and overtime while he was home playing video games.
You just have to say Id rather suffer hell than hurt my kid.
The look on Anna’s face, is PURE FEAR! She’s afraid to move. Was she in that Religion before she met Josh? JB and Michelle have done a number on her, ever since that cheating thing. And I’m sure Josh hasn’t been treating her with respect! After all he is her MASTER! They are just SICK!
Yes. Her parents are just as bad as the Duggars. They would be shamed if their daughter divorced. They basically gave her to Josh. Josh and Anna had just met each other a couple of times before he proposed.
My mom is still deep in mormonism and in grief about her afterlife because my dad left her. She would have tolerated it forever. She already did, over the kids. I remember her telling me over and over, really reverently but jealously, "you were born under covenant with god, binding you to be our child for all eternity." Except now everything has fallen to crap and she has to settle for upper-middle-heaven with her second husband.
She would probably still take my dad back, 40 years divorced, if it meant the upper crust heaven. And she's ok with me not coming with the way I act and think, but because I'll get baptized after I die and I'll be offered another chance, she knows I'll take it.
And this is what she believes strongly and every time I have to think about bearing the weight of that in her mind must be absolutely exhausting and there's so much ab(se that has never given them; my mother and Anna and some other women like them any chance to think about how to live outside of the system.
‘‘Freeze-Flight-Fight-Fright-Flag-Faint’’ is a coherent sequence of six fear responses that escalate as a
function of defense possibilities and proximity to danger during life-threat." From Dissociation Following
Traumatic Stress
, Etiology and Treatment, by Maggie Schauer and Thomas Elbert
If she agreed to a no holds barred interview she could ask for any amount. Then she'd have the money to leave
But in today’s world you have to get a marriage license to be legally married. Back when the Bible was written there was no marriage license. Therefore when they went to the “ law” when they married. they were already going against their own their own teachings.
Sex was actually the marriage contract.
Well I ruined humanity because I divorced my cheating husband so oh well. Good thing I was never part of the iblp or whatever they're called.