Why are so many High-End Raiding Guilds Quitting?
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- Опубликовано: 24 фев 2017
- After seeing a number of high end guilds throw in the towel with hardcore raiding, I figured I'd give my opinion on why it's becoming more common
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Because Blizzard feels losing to RNG is better than losing due to something you as a guild can control
Bk Big Fish yep, the blue post said that exactly. If Tommy keeps fucking up at 1% then you're supposed to be more tolerant. Poor Tommy! But if you lose to a boss because your RnG gear didn't proc that's okay. .........
And that again tells me they should finally just fire the fucking lead designers. Because those guys obviously live in a fantasy world and have no grasp of what is actually going on with their game.
Making the game difficult discriminates against bad players! They didn't choose to suck at the game.
polihayse RNG does not make the game difficult, just tedious.
Draves I'm joking. I was a raider in SNF and I'm ticked off by the decisions that Blizzard has made this expasion. RNG has become the standard and it is just this massive equalizer that tries to remove skill from the equation. It doesn't matter how much effort you put in because any random guy with bis legendaries will match you. Just like in mario kart how you can be 20 seconds ahead and then get fucked over by RNG with blue shells and come in last. It appeals to casual players and not players who are the slightest bit competitive. Blizzard is trying to attract the super flakey non-loyal facebook gamer and they don't give a shit about the people who have dedicated the most time to their game because they think that portion of their audience is addict d anyway so why try?
I think it comes down to a few things.
1. Spamming mythic+
2. Raids aren't rewarding anymore because of the first reason I listed
3. To many grinds. Artifact power, BiS, best legos etc.
4. RNGforging is fucking gay
Everything just feels repetitive and unrewarding. Getting a good dps legendary is more of a moment of relief than a moment of joy. Getting artifact power capped makes you sigh of relief instead of feeling happy/proud after a long grind. I really want to appreciate legion for what it is but it's impossible. I haven't nearly as many moments of joy in legion compared to other expansions.
Akaal yep been having tension and feeling usless this whole expac, then i get a bis and I could only think "finally i wont be usless" instead of being happy
Even the content drought in Wod last year felt more alive
nah thats overeacting
ZeroPopulation ye ofc, but they'll still farm mythic+ for non-set pieces to min/max dps/hps
ZeroPopulation The problem within the causal community is who is going to give a shit when you share it with friends
"they do it for free" world first in a fucking nutshell
cvk paper Exactly. It's a completely pointless endeavour.
It's never been a big thing and has been shrinking for years.
it was more rewarding back in the days. Ensidia etc. made a lot more money with sponsorships, liveevents etc. than now,
cvk paper end of the day it's a game haha!
Yes and people stop when they finally realize how dumb it is to take it so seriously. That realization comes in different forms for different people. Losing sleep and missing work, losing time spent with family, gaining weight, realizing you could have been working on real life skills and maybe gotten a raise at work instead of playing wow so much.
The moment you're playing WoW in order to get something out of it, is the moment you've stopped playing for the fun of it and you know it's headed down the drain. In the early stages of WoW the grind in and of itself felt rewarding, you could be grinding for hours to level up your mining or herbalism in WotLK or Cata and it still wouldn't feel as a grind.
Right now the amounts and durations of grinding in order to stay competitive and not to fall behind (sometimes unrewarded), is so overly absurd, it's inevitable most players have become consciously aware of it. And with that you start thinking and realizing what other things you could have done with your time, that would have felt more rewarding to you. The most important things of a reward in WoW are the feelings and memories associated with it, rather than the merit it holds. Right now however. the merits are high, but the feelings are low. Cx
Games aren't about fun anymore. They are about compelling players to play. This was one of the intents behind an achievement system. People like having those systems and they use them to reel people in.
You notice how anytime you get an upgrade in-game, its like a slot machine? It plays a "YOU WON" sound and flashes a bit? You notice how your bonus rolls actually look like a slot machine when you use it? All these things are intentional, and they prey on the same things that get people hooked to gambling.
Casuals and Asmongold can't understand this and act like the game isn't that bad...... must be nice using your guild as a reason to continue playing.
The Bugs bunny
That's the problem with the mindset of professional gaming. Fuck the game, it's all about money and attention.
They need to cut out as much RNG based content, that revolves around gearing, as is humanly possible. Leave the RNG to mount drops and other things that are a perk to playing the content. RPG's were always about completing "x" task to get "y" item. Not complete "x" task, roll the dice, and get "xyz" item, depending on the dice roll. You should be going into a raid knowing what you will get if the item drops, not hoping you get the best version of that item.
The problem is when Blizz introduces things like legendaries, and doesn't seem to realize the consequences it will have for hardcore gamers (of which I myself am not) who are getting the game the most press in the gaming world, it makes you wonder if they have the first clue about what they are doing.
Legendaries were poorly thought out from day one and should have never been included. This is coming from someone who has 21 of them across all his characters.
TItanforging and legendaries killed them more than anything else
Boon Kiu Yip yep getting a gear back in the day, you now had it, if you dont get specific piece titanforged + socket its not an upgrade even if you run the hardest difficulty, is what killed legion but Also kept it alive cause people cannot complete their character this week, well maybe next week a titanforged drops, and then they just burn out
this, lets also add random gemslots
They should make it so you need a whole set of speed gear in order to
kill a boss just to add more to the game
no, making alts impossible to keep releveant because of those things plus artifact power system has nailed shut what garrisons and class halls started
alts and also secondary specs, like i main assass on my rogue, i'd liek to use outlaw for mythics+ but there no way that spec can compete with my 52 traits main weapon which im still shoveling ap in to reach max
I'm with Ion on this. Most of this guilds are falling apart because stupid raid leaders and guild administrators demanding players have 5 geared alts and 80 hours/week of farming. Its just stupid. Method guild leader demands that the tanks have ALL TANK SPECS geared and ready to go at any time.
Of course AP farming played a huge part on this, but it can be bypassed. (And its going to be fixed in 7.2, both AP and Legendary)
You're also ignoring the fact that the game plays this way based on how they've designed this expansion.
Negative, it is the top end player's fault for thinking that they need to have 5 toons max ap/gear for it. And crying about not getting enough attention over a video game, is bullshit.
The players are fully aware of this when they signed up, the difference now is the fact that you have a huge rng system in gearing, legendaries and you still have to farm an insain amount of ap. The reason those reqiuerments are a thing, is because it is needed to stay competitive. You will not compete in the world first race without putting in the work.
They designed the fucking game this way, dont hate the player hate the game.
they are not crying, they are saying "This is not the game i fell in love with and the time investment to stay at the top is something i am not willing to invest" so they quit, simple as that.
ill save you the time spent watching with a TL;DR: people are quitting because the game is shit
I agree
I loved Firelands and the daily zoe as well.
no, TLDR is people are quitting because there's no external rewards for hardcore raiding
Disfigured you're an unhappy boy today, huh? Did something bad happen at school?
Cata pvp was arguably the worst time for pvp in wow. Blizzard had no idea what to do with certain classes, just look at the changelog for paladins throught the expansion. Tol barad was an absolutel mess too.
wow feel like a free to play game with this stupid grind
And pay to win...
Pay to farm ap*
Dont compare this disaster here with Free to Play. What Wow is atm is just plain bad. F2P games like say SWTOR got legit good gameplay. Quest design, RPG, combat system, zone downscaling, etc etc.
+James Salvatore
I don't know about recently, but on lauch SWtOR had none of that. A lot of their classes specs were ripped off from WoW and renamed and re-skinned. The PvP was inbalanced as hell and there was no PvE content to speak of. Maybe it is better now, but SWtOR was worse, because that was during its' pay to play time.
James Salvatore legion really isnt bad at all. unless maybe youre a world first raider or a noob. if youre not you really dont have much of a reason to complain.
Its funny how a game director can sit in an interview, and casually say that the game isnt meant to be played 80hrs a week.
Meanwhile a lot of top guilds are quitting the wf race, because thats exactly what is required of them.
Simply shows how little the wow developers understand the game they are making.
Feelsbatman
"The game is not meant to be played 80+ hours a week" - Balances nighthold around having maxed out artifact weapons, BiS legys and having the right setup. Because fuck logic.
liang dar yep even for heroic people need 900+ for a pug simply because boss mechanics are so punishing, and without atleast titanforged from mythic +, you are not Killing hc Bosses in pugs anytime soon
liang dar Stop talking out of your ass mobile.twitter.com/WatcherDev/status/835156538650066945
+zXTheFoxXz
Yes! Great, make it hard. Make the boss mechanics punishing. Make it hard to do with a random group, awesome. I want raids to be difficult and punishing so actually accomplishing something aka killing bosses feels rewarding and comes with a sense of accomplishment. Why are you complaining that Heroic bosses are hard to kill? That's the way it should be! I'd go as far as to say people with your mentality is contributing to what many would call the casualization of the game.
actually i think that game director is right. It's the players that choose to be first whatever and play shitload to get their 'merit', none forced them to do this.
Actually thinking of quitting myself before the grind gets worse and hits infinite in 7.2 how the fuck is that good or fun for anyone?
This fucking casualization of everything for maxed profit is gonna end the world and everything we love.
i resubbed a few days ago (for the 3rd month in a row ,ever) and i'm already regretting it .. Barely have the willpower to logon to my main, and when i do, i just check my WQ's, get bored, run my daily HC for the AP token, and do LFR during the resets (+emissary boxes daily), get disappointed, and logoff.
Detective John Kimble
Fucking /clap at your intelligence..
When Vanilla came out it was for gamers, not elites, not noobs, just people.
The game decided how far your skill and intelligence would take you and if you didn't have a brain you could barely get past BWL.
Now take a look at todays mess where they are trying to appeal to both parties, we end up with one half maxing all traits but at the cost of ridicilously high gametime and the other basically getting them for free next expansion.
I wanna play like iv'e always done for 10+ years, taking time off from work for new content, gearing up and then chill with raids 2-3 days a week until next expansion, not having to do mythic+ all the time between raids, it's exhausting, boring, monotonous.
You see the problem yet detective?
WoW has always been about ups and downs when there is much to do and other times there aren't.
Now there ALWAYS is but it's not worth the effort and people are starting to realize it.
Whipslash
BWL didnt take any braincells to kill. People were just shitty in vanilla and resources to get better were much worse than they are now.
DreadPages
Well, both. AQ and Nax was the real nightmarefuel.
vanilla was fucking shit lmao
you would have a raid of 40 man where at least 20 were below average players, and 5 people doing nothing or being gigashit
Title
Answer: They are tired of the grind to stay relevant in Legion, it's already been said by the members of those guilds.
Pay attention.
"Remember to take all things in moderation (even World of Warcraft!)"
-WoW Loading Screen
Danksmoke Bong you know there is a way to fix it luk
did you ever think to search youtube for a fix? i searched yesterday and now loading screens last a max of 15 seconds.
check m8
I just think the high end raiders are getting older and moving onto new stages in their lives, and once a couple healers decide to leave your raid balance goes to shit.
insaneapples that wasnt a problem before, because if you Went into a raid and got the item you looked for, you now had it, in legion you have 20 ilvls that could be added to the gear, EVEN at the hardest difficulty, with socket/ leech, that its now rng based to be competetive, and its no longer about skills so if ur healer leaves, you simply cannot even get a replacement, because the amount of gear he would need for a world first race with the 10-20% increase from the best possible gear, with everything combined i just think people collapse, and it all became a problem with ilvl + socket
+zXTheFoxXz Agreed, titanforging is a terrible idea. I already fight RNG to get loot, and to get the right loot, it should not ALSO determine how good that loot is.
I am really glad that I did not come back, may as well have two or three jobs and still have more time for other things than this expansion.
Maybe if they didnt balance Mythic around having a completely full artifact and the RNG of the leggo system.
Maybe make paragon points not function in raiding for the first 2 months of the content and then nerf the content by making them function later on.
Or just not make them function in raids at all, like they dont in pvp.
dark666105 well thats bullshit why would you even want them. the problem is the rng and the ap grind those are the only problems
I think you should look that up last 3 bosses(mythic) were tuned for 54 because of people grinding the shit out before the emerald nightmare and killing it within a day
Hello,
I apologize for the off topic nature of this comment -- but I've gotta ask, what addon are you using to display pets 4/4 as well as the achievements that you need to do (0:36)
Im playing on a private server right now because I never had the money to play on retail. Is starting to play on official servers now any worth it because of having to catch up alot?
I thought the WotlK system where you would get 10 wipes a week and going up every week toward 25 was a pretty good system to stop ppl from burn-out.Also the skill level was what mattered not the time spend.
And ofc to have 4 difficulty levels of the same content also dont help alot with burn outs. So in my opinion blizzard should take another look at WotlK raiding and consider it because in my opinion it was a better system if they only had 25 or 10m back in those days.
Magtheridon Apocalypce The weekly pull cap was what really started split-raiding. People would raid on their alts to learn the fight for their mains. This is the reason Blizzard removed it.
If we had a pull cap today, the grind would be even more insane, as you'd need up to 11 as close geared to your main to do practise pulls with. It would also kill off more semi-hardcore guilds, as soon as the guild reaches the pull cap, all raids for the week is cancelled. Which leads to people getting frustrated and leaving guilds constantly, ruining any chance to build up a good progression guild..
There was hardmode in wotlk just wasnt selected by a menu 3 drake sartharian leaving towers up on flame leviathin ect
last time i was this early legendaries weren't a meme
Warriorfall cata?
Cata doesn't count m8
I have a doubt, I love the arms warrior but as I see daily, it is very little used and it is unusual to see one in pve content, I do not know if this is because it is difficult to handle or does not do enough damage, my question (ons ) Is, is it profitable to use the warrior arms on pve? Can be used normally in mythic +? Any tip or guide how to use it better? Above all wonder why the warrior fury has me bored and guns only usually appear in pvp, Regards and a big hug!
I'm a ragnaros server player :D
How can you do them old raids in raid finder difficulty? Just wondering
TL:DW; Game fucking sucks
I really miss when WoW was good, everyone played it. The game had a community and you never wanted to log off. Now look at the game. Really sad to see where the game has come.
You know what's ironic? I remember every time a new MMO came out everyone said "ooh this is the one that'll end WoW", guess what, Blizzard killed WoW, not some other awesome MMO.
Pretty dramatic bud.
A shit ton of people still play, will continue to play, and most of the people who are quitting or have quit will come back, as has happened since always. WoW is still good for a lot of people, there is still a community, and people who play/pay don't want to just log out, else they would have unsubcribed.
I don't doubt you have reasons to dislike WoW, but you cannot project your opinion and personal experience as if it represents the game/community as a whole. Maybe it's just time for you personally to move on to something else.
Klyptic i could have told you that back in 2007
Klyptic I'm with you, played since release raided high end raids, competitively pvped, was great, got legion, got to max then just never logged on again, maybe it's just me but the game definitely lost its magic and sense of wonder
There are many people coming back and going . Life goes on & Yes wow is still live .
I think the player base killed wow.
one big things irking me about legion is that i cant play my mains os because i dont have the legendaries for it. 150k plus dps difference between my ms and os with maxed weapons isnt cool.
The titanforged thingy is pretty easy to fix imo. They just need to cap it. For example if you re doing normal the highest it can titanforge is up to HC ilvl or 5 under. And if you do HC the ilvl will be the same case there, up to Mythic and so on. Then those who put in alot of time doing mythic raiding will still have that amazing gear that some people cant get.
I was going to type an entire paragraph, but then i realised i don't give a shit about world first raiders. Nobody is telling these people to go and be the first to kill a boss.
it seems like this has happened every expac sine cata
first few months of the expansion: "wow there's so much to do this expac is amazing, wow has made a comeback"
middle of the expac: "this game is dead, there's nothing to do, too grindy, content is pointless, it's too easy"
Whats the addon you use for appearances, Mr. Asmongod?
I don't understand the background gameplay. He's doing lfr SOO at 110? How is that possible?
Legion is like combining all of the worst parts of vanilla (grind grind grind grind, poor class design) with all of the worst parts of WoD raiding (RNG loot, split runs). The content is great, but the systems in place around that content are catastrophically terrible. Legendaries, AP farming, and titanforging are all absolutely awful systems.
Cause we pay to work for this whatever it is, isn't a game anymore i can tell you that.
Making something for everybody never works
how can from scratch and midwinter merge? one is from france and the other us
I've put 10,000 hours into wow, but I still suck. Should I try knitting instead?
These people are making a conscious decision to do the things that are burning them out.
Just like Ion Hazzikostas said, AP (for example) is not meant to be something that you turn into a "I must max this out" goal. I understand the mentality that leads these people to play it that way (the mindset of, everyone having maxed out AP could be the difference between a 3% wipe, and a kill), but it's totally up to each player how they want to play the game.
These people complaining about the work they have to do is exactly as ridiculous as people who play 1 hour a week complaining that they aren't making any real progress. If you don't like it, change your behavior and stop complaining.
The issue is that a lot of these people are taking the "all or nothing" approach. Either they put in the massive amount of work it takes to be in a top guild, or they totally quit the game. There's a ton of middle ground between those two points.
If you're obsessed with getting a world first kill ("obsessed" is the other word I can think of to describe people who put themselves through this, for virtually 0 real reward), then that obsession is going to take you to places you may very well not want to go.
IT ain't burning out!! Nobody talks in chat!! Unless if you're on the top 4 servers that are full.
You won't be seeing shit. Why trade when you can get it yourself!! Why bother when you can do it yourself!!
Not to mention even if you do get the best of the best like Asmongold NOBODY WILL GIVE A SHIT!! His guild is the only reason he even continues this game!! Get rid of the guild and he is tired of the same bullshit!!
Dead Battery i would say the the fact that a great amount of his livelyhood and the general fate of what happens to most wow yotubers when they do none wow content has decent part to do with it to but that doesnt really matter games dead everyone should movw onto ffxiv anyways since thw only othwr decent mmo near even what legion is.
Dead Battery my server is empty especially since i play ally on a horde server and people talk all the time in chat, so stop making shit up and grow up
tbh. currently im not sure wether im playing a gambling game or an mmorpg.
legendarys, titanforge warfoge stuff, proccs of specific skills.
all that stuff looks more like a gamble.
Shinrak and a gamble you cant win, atleast before, if something dropped you had a chance to roll for it, now if something really Good drops, that Guy keeps it, while this Can be Good in one way, not just hanging out a poor guys using them and tunnel all gear to 1 Guy, its very bad because now bad performance Can get a 925 while the ones who carried cannot even get a chance to roll for it
zXTheFoxXz so your ilvl 915? If not STFU and continue gambling
zXTheFoxXz that kinda sounds like you only run with pugs and not guild groups which is understandable that what moat people only have time for unless your talking about lfr which when it qasnt some form of personal loot had people bringinf friwnda with them to ninja gear in dragon soul lfr shit i remeber how many pug groups were complaing 1 expansion ago about people ninjaing items in pugs with masterloot.
thats how they keep the addicts going
Casual patch = nicotine XL
I'm curious, though. What MMO would you expect to play, with a bigger audience and more rewards?
Elysium
Well, if they just do a similar format to blizzcon arena's but with a raidteam size, it could theoretically work. Before a raid is launched, they get a time window to put together a 10 man team, with 1 or 2 players to switch, sign your team up on battle.net. Content is launched, players monitored by GM's, prize money is spit by blizz and divided accordingly to accounts listed. Blizz contacts them through some secure means to deliver rewards.
Should have just started your video at 10 minutes. People always say look at all these people leaving this old game, it must be getting worse. Shits just getting old, and so are the players. WoW will never be an E-sport either, it has always been and will always be a casual game. If you feel like your working so hard that you need to be compensated for playing this game then you might as well find something else to do.
James Curtis WoW isn't getting old, which is proved by the recent success of Vanilla private servers. There is definitely a problem with the enjoyability of the game ATM.
Placki Plicki I wouldn't call a couple of thousand players a success, to be honest
WoW and it's playerbase are aging, but that has nothing to do with why Legion is killing off the hardcore playerbase. The soul-crushing AP grind and RNG bullshit are what is killing off the playerbase.
Placki Plicki
Legacy servers are free and still just a fraction of the legit game.
So no, the surge is tiny.
Using the "free" argument against private servers is pretty damn stupid.
A) People are afraid of them because they can be shut down at any moment.
B) Word of mouth is the only advertising they get.
C) Most people want to play the newest version of the game, even if it isn't as good (subjective).
D) Vanilla/TBC aren't for everyone.
2:26
Who the FUCK,takes WEEKS off from work to play a game?What the actual fuck.Unless you're working at mc-d.
The same reason people take weeks off to go to the beach. Its their vacation.
I doubt people will literally go,ask their boss 2 weeks prior and take their precious vacation solely on the intent of playing a video game 6 hours a day,at night,everyday for a week.You basically take vactions for a second job that doesn't pay.
Again,comes back to how constructive you are with your time.
Don't get me wrong,I play this shit too,but I won't ever say no to earn fucking 1200$ to just go play intense for a week,most people won't be playing like you will anyways because they have jobs,and THEY,aren't taking fucking vacations for wow.
Oh,and you'll fall behind anyways 2 weeks after that.
In many parts of the world your vacation is paid for, for up to 4 weeks. So they aren't missing out on money unless you meant people should be having another job during their vacation for double salary?
To stay in a high end guild, 9-5 Jobs are fine really, the problem comes in when a new expansion releases, and everyone is on ground 0, you need every single hour a day to grind gear, and since they Enjoy doing it they take their varations for it
Yeah they are taking vacations for WoW, that's how many mid to high-end salaried positions work, you can take vacations when you want to.
Well blizzard said they were fine with the current high end guild and the health of the game at the high end so what is there to say? At least if I remember it correctly when they said this at blizzcon
exorsus are still in the race. at least until tomb if sargeras.
they talked about it in finalbosstv interwiev.
Alveona(guild master) told, that they will fight for world first KillJeaden.
and nurse(exorsus rogue) told the same on this stream.
No need to make a video of 14 min to answer a simple question...why are so many High End Raiding Guilds Quitting ? because the game is SHIT.
Is your hobby to answer people for days with autistic comments? :D
Disfigured where the hell does elysium even come into this are you stupidly lost?
Disfigured even if he does play on Elysium guess what, Vanilla was actually fucking good, so I'd rather play vanilla for 30$ a month instead of legion for free, legion is dog shit.
Brimstone Valar So true. WoW died after MoP tbh... As someone who's played since vanilla, I never thought I'd say that haha. When I reflect back, MoP was my most played expansion other than WOTLK. Blizz should just put the nail in the coffin and start developing a new MMO. As good as WoW is/was, the game is just too old now, and I think that's also a big part of the hate... at least for me. Blizz is just milking the shit out of WoW as much as they can smh... All these resources could be put to better use.
LegaltTO They just keep trying new stupid things
Vanilla wow was the biggest grind known to man yet nobody is complaining
Nostalgia
Theres shitfest pointless grind. Then theres fun grinding.
how can you do soo raidfinder with lvl 110?
I have a request id like to see a video of your top 10 add ons that you use
"You think you do but you don't"
Only way to fix this shitty game is to give us OFFICIAL Legacy Servers let Diablo3: Legion die.
Sup ya'll, it's me, it's ya boy Assmongold. And today I wanted to turn a 90 second conversation into a 14minute video because I think it's important to cash in on what little is left of WoW's popularity before the collapse. Turns out the Devs didn't listen to how much people hate RNG, partly because of sellouts like me assuring people it's not that bad. Whoops, my bad. Gotta get that ad revenue though boiz.
Oh well, the 90s it took to cover this simple topic is up. Please like and subscribe.
Chris G if its so easy, why dont you start making videos yourself instead of critisizing other peoples succes in what they do?
zXTheFoxXz Oh, I would never. I'm afraid I'm completely outclassed in the "Get a bunch of retards to defend me in the comments" department.
Also, I have a and 8 to 5 that kind of gets in the way of convincing children to give me money via watching ads as I perform autofellatio.
And WoW was never as shit as now, you make me laugh too.
Lets sum it up quick what the Game offers in a good way:
Warcraft Lore
Decent looking Raids and Zones and Cutscenes
Thats about it right now.
Lets sum up what it does terrible:
Class Design or so called Class "Fantasy"
Class Balance
PvP
PvE
Gearing
Artifacts
Talents
Honor Talents which are just a revamp of old spells made to talents rofl
RNG legendaries from which are just shit while others are far too strong
Chris Gemoules you are absolutely right!! I feel this way with 70-80% of this youtuber content. I like his guides though.
I was taking a break form wow got back beginning of February and feel so behind, I've come back a few months after a release and never felt this left in the dust. There is so much grind. Order hall resources, and the artifact weapons.
2:19 How can you 'just take a couple of weeks off of work and go back to work after progression is over'?
i am the only one that like grinding ?
Legion is honestly the worst "MMORPG" I've ever played. MMORPG in quotes because quite frankly, I don't consider this game a MMO or a RPG. It's an action adventure game with a lobby. There is no RPG and no MMO aspects in sight, the game is the furthest it can be from a MMORPG as humanly possible. The developers working on this game are something I expect from a low tier low budget indie team, not a multi-billion dollar company that brought me Diablo2: LoD, Starcraft1: Brood wars, and Warcraft: The Frozen Throne. Blizzard needs to clean up their developer roster and finally pretty much everyone in charge if they want their game to actually be good again.
Out of pure curiosity, if you have the time, explain exactly what Legion has or doesn't have, that makes you think it's neither MMO or RPG. I have no idea how this statement can be believed, so i'm genuinely curious.
I would also like to hear
I smell a lot of nostalgia. Those games you mention were great then, and people have moved on. WoW was great then, and it too will move on, at least for the players who grew up with it...
New players fill the void, perspectives change, and so things move on.
@Halikarz31 shhh... don't ask questions this entitled shit can't answer because... duh... you have to understand that people with absolute ZEEEROOOOO brain and ZERO game developement knowledge are talking. people who are completely rotting away mentally are talking about a topic they wether play or understand. Just leave the manga doll. Ignore her.
What about creating specific type realms exclusively for raiding as well as guilds. From scratch no looms no alt support and are only allowed to have one type of Faction. Also give out triple xp but realms reset, almost like dead man mode for WoW.
last week I sat down, made a 'to do' list of things I needed to do on wow. looked at said list, then logged off. this does affect more than just the high-end raiders as is if you look at someone who wants to at least play at a high level.
lul people still play this game?
Not anymore, atleast now, it is really going down for WoW, Sad but true.
So asmongold, people are quitting because they can't make money off of wow? :P That sounds a bit deluded, don't you think?
Kevin Pedersen more as: because they need to live from something, and they can't make a living from wow.
no he says streamers, top guilds, etc. who need sponsors, earn money with it. not just casuals. you know it's not that wow is bad. it's not. people just like to complain because stupid. it's just that WoW is old and still an MMORPG whereas MMOs are out of date. The new way to go is mobile games like hearthstone or MOBAs. FPS are timeless. Competition is key to gaming nowadays. WoW has arenas, but that's too weak for esports.
Another problem with offering prize money is that it would almost certainly end up in court as whenever Blizzard have world firsts for something the winners often use some kind of grey creative use of game mechanics/exploit and get stripped of the award/reinstated. The Lich King and MOP first to 90 world firsts are good examples of this-they were dramas that were enough of a train wreck even without money being involved.
I must agree with you, My personal reasons to the decline is mainly AP which takes a long time to get for your legendary. and that doesn't account for alts or even secondary secondaries like holy/shadow
I'm really glad they're all quitting. The elitism that is mythic raiders is hurting wows community by making everyone either become tryhards or be forgotten!
why do mythic raid when you can kill boss in lfr?
I quit because there was way too much rng with legendaries, how much of a grind it became and how bored i got of the island...Such a small continent, too little to do for a hardcore player..
the split raiding start in cata around firelands where people farmed the legendary staff for several mains at a time
I havent played legion for a few months now, i do not miss it AT ALL. i used to raid hard core in MOP, even managed to get heroic warforged weapon etc. honestly i HATE random loot, its one of the reasons i dont want to raid anymore.
It's the titanforging that grinds my gears . Makes everything seem i get unsatisfactory when it isn't Max titan
I remember when I first started I really wanted a pre raid epic from nexus . Priest healing mace . I know it was there , I knew it's stats . I farmed it and it dropped after a little while and I felt awesome . Now I would maybe get it but it might not be titanforged so I would be less happy .
Really cool video Asmong, keep up the good work man!
midwinter and SNF merged to form solace. i don't know how form scratch and midwinter would merge, lol.
Love the siege of Orgrimmar raid in the background, did 10/14 solo on my 101 prot pally yesterday :) totaly failed on the Spoils though so quit there.
i have been some years out and just back for legion, since it started, but man this grind to get AP and the ramdom ilvl loot (warforged,titanforget,lendarys) , its locks more like d3 tham wow. its not same as BC by far. life change as the time to play it. its realy hard to stay competitive.
only reeason i might come back is to do old content like mythic SoO or mythic HFC etc or mythic BRF i got the feat of strength for highmaul which was as joke of a raid but after that i quit wow
I havent really liked WoW since dragonsoul, and only really check the game out for a couple of months every expansion. I cant believe this game still has so many players.
same but i'm on the hype train again since classic was announced! I hate retail and it sucks hard, but its still better then alot of games out there in the genre.. i'll be able to play for a year(ish) till it comes out
im honestly not really sure how to feel about it. i used to do heroics top of my server ect. but i just stopped caring. i actually turned my attention to collecting mounts and gold for TCG mounts lol. but now its become this impossible experiance to even try for mounts. so IDK. honestly, i would like it if they just started WoW2 or something. idk /shrug
Hey asmongold I have one question, if your guild is good and everyone respects eachother BUT they never touch anything related to mythic level. So I stay?
I think one of the things they should've changed is how far they can reach with their artifact weapon (ap-wise). Instead of having a cap of level 54 artifact then it should be much lower so people wouldn't need to endlessly grind it. A much more fitting level would be 44, which is 10% dmg increase for dps specs. This would also result in spending more time and funnel more ap into your other specs and having people be more diverse. Right now theres too little people with tank spec in dungeon finder (opinion) and i think it is due to the fact that people simply dont want to tank when they dont have that extra dmg and health from traits. So if the cap was lower, then people could funnel more ap into other specs like protection warrior if you main arms.
What about adding more rewards for mythic raiders?
I mean more titanforged loots, titles, mounts maybe legendaries?
I mythic raid and never felt the pressure to mindlessly grind. I passively picked up AP from dailies, raids, a handful of m+ per week etc. and I reached 54 not long ago. I understand for bleeding edge guilds this isn't enough but that's so few people and I highly doubt all these complainers are at that level.
personally i burned the fuck out just trying to get AP in MAW all day.
i havent raided in weeks. and im realizing... i dont miss it...
it takes several hours a day just to get a chance to increase that by 1
and its gotten too "diablo 3" for me.
My guild raids mythic content. I don't participate unfortunately and have to stick to normal/heroic because i play on a potato. seems to me that they don't really go that extra mile to farm AP like some guilds do. And they haven't cleared the second boss in NH. It must be frustrating to some of them knowing if they want that boss down faster, they need to spend alot of time farming more ap. This is all just speculation though and i'm sure they're having a good time even if they wipe. I just think the time commitment to push mythic content is far too great from an outsider's point of view.
i think they're definitely getting rid of the rng fest next xpac and i really hope they get rid of keystones too. it's fucking boring to keep doing that shit - i never do it more than once per week but my guild keeps pushing me to do it and i don't want to (and it's not even a hardcore guild)
the moment i turned off the game and never turned it back on was when ive seen some warlock get 925 raidfinder titanforged set gloves ..
The definition of 'hardcore' has also changed. In older expansions it took creativity and intelligence to find shortcuts in the progress necessary to clear content. Not just for the individual player but also for the guilds themselves. Being a world-first had more prestige back then than it has now. Guilds also finished contents within days or weeks, not within hours of each other.
All of that gave hardcore raiding more prestige than it does not. Rather than planning and scheming your way ahead of others all Legion offers is a singular grind that all players participated in. Being a world first only means your guild ran the threadmill a bit faster than the rest.
I think it isn't a problem right now but down the line when other raids are released it will be harder to complete them cause the guilds no longer are doing it so not as many people know boss fights making the raid harder without actually doing anything
started in dragon soul, a big "scandal" was when paragon used a glitch where as long as they boosted 1 person at a time, the group got full loot even though the whole raid was lootbanned
I quit because I've been playing for ~12 years, I wasn't really behind the curve, 897 Prot Pally, both weps 45+, 896 Havoc DH, 54 traits in both weps, game just got boring after doing the same thing over and over for that long. Game is going casual, rewards for time put in just isn't worth it anymore.
Hey Asmondgold links to the sources of this information?
for the guilds moving to the casual scene
I have been playing a lot of the old school runescape and I think blizzard could take a note. It gives the old school reward feeling while also being nostalgic. it adds new things to the game that feel like they could have been there. But most importantly they have almost every single update voted on by the community with 75% to pass. I love the interaction between the devs and the player base.
will this work on elysuim
one thing you didn't talk about is what should blizzard do about this if anything?
It certainly does seem like some of the progression mechanics they built into Legion would make the tricks that are common among top end progression guilds much more difficult to pull off. Getting multiple alts kept up at top-end gear and upgraded artifact is just a helluvalot harder now than it had been previously. Now it's true that top-end guilds play the game in a very different way than the normal player, but as long as someone is doing it that way, then someone is getting the world first.
Why do they trade you everything?
I think you are 100% right, and I would add because the #1 complaint about W.O.D. expansion was lack of content. Blizzard did as it always does over reacted and gave us way to much content, to a point of over load.
I've quit playing wow ( was a raider like you.. 3 nights a week ) because my guild fell apart when they required 20 people for Mythic. It was the best year in a while! I just recently came back to WOW but only as a casual player, login in only a few times a week and it feels less taxing on real life! I suggest everyone does this at least once...
Yea I've definitely cut my time from 4-6 hours a day to 1-2. My guild started mythic nighthold. We are trying to recruit two more tanks because other guild members are just not playing that much anymore to grind alts. I wish them the best of luck. Especially with 7.2 inc. Also @ 10:00 fucking A man. I still can't believe we put 10-14 hours a day in TBC. I was also on a top guild on my shitty RP server. Still we had server first Archy and Illy beans. I was 20. Now almost ten years later I shudder thinking about doing those heroic 5 mans.
There is no refractory period to high end raiding anymore. Back then you could have all BiS gear in the first 4 weeks of raid release(top 10% guilds) and wait until the next raid to do it again.
The amount of content is not the problem. We love it.
It's the artifact grind, paragon BS, for each spec on on your main and alt that's the killers.
What kind of job do you have to get to be able to take a few weeks off for progression and just get to go back when its all over? O.o
i dont have time to raid so i mainly do high m+ and i have a blast. i like being able to do harder content with less people because organizing 20 good players together is annoying
Extensive split raid farming was always going to be the casualty of Legion some high end guilds might quit but give it some time the expectations for what is a high end raiding player and guild will change and the balance will restore itself, other guilds will rise and the high end game will keep on going just like it always has.
my personal voice would state that back in "the days" of BC and even the beginning of wotlk, the game was "beatable" as in you could go through the game and accomplish most of the things you wanted. you could get lost in the game and top tier gear. now everything seems so scheduled and overwhelming. its like even when im not playing im still thinkng "man theres something i could be doing.... OMG A FORGOT ABOUT THAT ULDUAR ACHIEVEMENT I MISSED TWO XPACS AGO". and to me that makes the game not satisfying because theres alot of things holding me back from being in the current state of the game you feel? its too hard to stay on top of things and still have time to do the leisurely activities or go pvp raiding nowadays
I must say, this is the first WoW installment where I only have one character to max level, and he only has one spec to AP 50+. But, at least I'm not sitting in garrison asking myself why I just spent two hours jumping up and down and running in circles doing nothing.
i agree 100%.. most of the guilds that disband, are down to the fact, that top raiding isnt the same as it was last expansion...Last expansion you didnt have to grind mythics to upgrade your wep, you gear grinding for next raid or so, could be done in a week max, or by raiding 1-2 days a week clearing the current raid, with alts and mains.. not they have to grind for AP lvls, which is alot more work then "normal"
And if only half of the raid put that much work into their accounts, then others, that half will at some point get fed up, and try to find another guild with your mentality
Midwinter and From Scratch are not merging. SnF and Midwinter are, From Scratch is a French guild on EU, Midwinter/SnF are both US guilds