The Spirit 1.0 plus is offered as shaft only (1500) or with battery (2500) for a few reasons. 1) Most don't know but the Spirit can run on an external battery source, not limited to the actual cowl battery pack. You can plug it into a Navy pack or one of their E series batteries. If you are already an ePro user you may already own one of these with a different outboard. 2) If for any reason you have damaged a lower unit beyond repair, but cowl battery pack is still good, it's listed in drop down option as seperate unit, not necessarily forced to buy total package. Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but the battery and shaft are shipped in separate boxes under different sku's , so that may also be something to do with inventory categorization in relation to site/warehouse. Great video, your channel is really thriving, I'm sure you will continue to find success!
we have a torqueedo 3.0 on our tender... it's ok for limited use but really *really* nice not to have to worry about spilling fluids, winterizing, or (and this may be best) making a lot of noise, 1st thing in the morning, taking the dogs to shore for bio break. For us it wasn't so much about "the environment" (because I expect that battery longevity, lithium mining, etc. all negate any benefit of running off batteries), but about convenience and quiet.
That's a great 'real world' application - and speaks to many of the things I really like about electric options. The ease-of-operation and silence certainly have value.
A LiFePO4 battery is mostly copper and aluminum metal (like thick foil), carbon, and a small amount of other compounds, including the lithium salt. Plus whatever materials are used in the case. The good news is that the environmental impact of a LiFePO4 battery is significantly lower than the 10 years of gasoline it replaces. After 10 years, the old battery can be recycled into a new battery - can't do that with gas or diesel exhaust.
I run a newport vessels Nk-180 on my Kayak. (Ascend 128X) I love it . Caught it on sale, $750 vs $999. Add in a $500 24-V battery and it's $1150. I really like it. 4mph is easy to do and I can slow it down to .4 mph easily. That's pushing 100lb kayak, 260lb me, 30lbs gear, and motor with battery. (50lbs) I love it
On the verge of when not if. Pricing still needs to come down from the stratosphere. Electric vehicles are appliances. They need to be as reliable and priced as such. The countdown has begun. Competition will drop those prices.
Thanks for your review of what's available. We have both petrol, epropulsion and trolling motors. We use the epropulsion whenever possible because its quiet, does not have cables draped everywhere and has a long range because we can easily swap the battery pack for a fully charged one. This solution we find ideal except for the price of the spare battery packs.
Nice round-up of options - retail cost comparisons with gas should also include total cost of ownership (gas & maintenance) We’re testing several of these motors now and designing our boats with more hydrodynamic hulls that require smaller batteries & lower propulsion to keep costs down for boaters who want to go electric & also have good range.
On that note, I'm about to (weather permitting) try out a strong electric trolling motor for getting my 18 ft. sail boat out of and back in to boat ramps, docks and mooring balls. For our local small lake sailing, this 55lbs thrust Endura Max and grp 27 deep cycle battery should do it. The boat is 1,100 lbs displacement but has a very hydrodynamic hull (Precision 18).
Its nice to hear that the company is looking at all options for keeping cost down. I can not afford a boat living on a fixed income but love to fish. Water all around me and I just usually rent a john boat for fresh water fishing and use my Diehard 25 thrust motor to get around. For the salt water I am just stuck to shore or pier fishing.
I think the biggest advantage to the electric outboards is the ability to go on the electric only lakes/ponds. 45min from my house there are about 10 lakes/ponds with public boat launches. But only 2 allow gas powered vessels. These electrics seem to outperform and weigh significantly less than trolling motors. That would be a cool comparison to do. Electric outboard vs trolling motor for a jon boat.
Thank You for the video. I have had a Torqeedo for almost two years in my wooden traditional archipelago sailboat. The price was no issue since it's a hobby. Things I like are: I never have to transport gas cans in my car to the cabin. The motor starts instantly, really easy to give a little push to finish a tack in light winds or to go straight headwind in small narrow passages. No noise, birds beavers and neighbors don't mind. No smell. Things I don't like: the Torqeedo connector.
Wayne, sometime you should have a livestream. Another idea that I had is have a video on solo boating. For those that want to try out solo boating. I enjoy solo boating.
Great video! Just ordered an NT300 for my Old Town Sportsman 154... Can't wait to try it out, I should be cruising at 7mph with a decent range (went with the 30ah). You nailed it- the biggest draw for me is the low (to no) maintenance and of course, over time, you recoup through fuel costs. The motor comes with a 2yr and battery 10yr warranty with 10K+ charge cycles. Yes, the price point is still in favor of gas, but I fish local reservoirs and don't have a choice regardless. Kuddos to Newport for putting out a good motor and an affordable price!
We have seen a 1000 fold increase in video views on our channel on all topics electric boating. I believe we will reach the tipping point for consumer acceptance within 5 years. Kudos for the review
I've been looking into electric outboards for my jon boat. The lack of noise is what I'm interested in. I hunt and trap a lot so if I can get around all day quietly that's a huge plus. You don't need a big motor for a 14 foot jon boat.
I’m going to be a snowbird soon and I want a small 12-14 boat with an electric motor. I was even thinking of about 200 watts of solar so I can troll all day. These prices are crazy. I can buy a nice dc motor, controller and speed control for under $500.
Electric is a lot cleaner motor, but I think I'll stick to my 6hp Johnson 1988 Belgium. I use about 6 gallon a year. I take it out once or twice a week in the Lower Susquehanna and flats. at average $5. a gallon of ethanol free gas, that maybe $30-35 a year. This thing is super easy on gas, I also have 2 Newport Vessels 55 t-lbs which move my 14 footer pretty good I use at lakes that don't aloud gas motors. Think I'll wait for the price to come down on electric 6 hp motors or battery's, or hit the lottery.
Fair enough! The total-cost-of-ownership certainly should be part of the equation and over time many of these outboards will build their reputations. That initial hurdle is still hard for many people to get clear.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy there's also the argument that boaties teens to be handy enough to do the service themselves. With a small engine that means the service is the cost of a spark plug which is still more expensive than not buying a spark plug but very palatable. I think the on water experience is what seals the deal for me. I dream of the ePropulsion so spirit but currently run a minn Kota
I am considering a simple cheap trolling motor with an external 50 ah lithium ion battery for my 20ft daysailer. I don’t want/need to go long distances - just motor into/out of anchorages but this option is much less expensive than torqeedo/epropulsion etc. It is also much more versatile because it also provides a grunty 12v power source for eg Led lighting and electronics on my boat which otherwise I don’t have (plus I can take the battery off the boat and use it elsewhere if I want to). I reckon I should get ~3hrs running time at a medium power level with this set up. I will sell my noisy little Honda 2hp to defray the cost. I love the silence and simplicity of the electric motor option - particularly the “twist left for forward twist right for reverse” operation - so much better than turning the Honda through 180 degrees!
Yeah trolling motors work quite well in those situations! A neighbor has a $100 trolling motor on his sailboat that he uses to get in and out of the creek regularly.
Great video, thanks! I have been using an electric car for years and I am happy, for my use it is perfect. The maximum efficiency today possible. This spring I will have to equip my little tender with an outboard. So far I was not convinced of the offer of little ones (2-3 kW) but, thanks to your video now I know the Newport NT300. Maybe it will be my next outboard ...
I think most people who truly love and respect the outdoors love the idea of electric outboards. To this day I HATE seeing that little oil slick a 2-stroke leaves in the water. I didn't like it as a child, and I don't like it today. But, until they make a *affordable* outboard that truly competes in power up to 150hp, along with affordable batteries to run them.... it's just not practical. Now, these smaller trolling motors for kayaks, etc... There are some really cool options. A bit expensive for my budget, but the products themselves are neat. Great video! Thanks for sharing.
With these small outboards I think power to weight ratio is a huge factor for me I would like to see the stats on that assuming 5 gallons of gas and the equivalent battery
I've got the Spirit and I equate the battery to a bit more than the roughly .9l of fuel my previous Honda 2hp had. The Honda would run for ~45 minutes at full throttle and the Spirit will do a bit more than an hour, both push the boat ( 10' RIB ) at about the same speed. That leaves me to believe that, more or less, the 1276 Wh battery is roughly equivalent to 1.2l of gas. It's a rough guess, but I think 1kWh=1l of gas is in the ballpark. That would make 5 gallons of gas ( about 19l ) equal to a 19kWh battery. That's a lot of battery, basically two of the largest batteries that ePropulsion currently supplies ( 10kWh) and about 200kg ( 440 lbs ) of batteries. 5 gallons of gas would weigh about 30lbs, plus a bit for a plastic gas can. So the power to weight ratio is heavily in favor of gasoline. As a spirit outboard user, though, this isn't of much use to me. The power to convenience ratio leans pretty heavily towards the Spirit in my application. I never used more than a half a tank on the Honda, mostly because at the half throttle we normally ran at we got closer to two hours of run time ( similar of you back off the Spirit ) and nobody wants to sit in a dingy for two hours. More important for me was now I don't have to store gas and oil on board. I make electricity any time the sun shines or I run the main ( diesel ) engine on the boat so I can charge the Spirit almost anytime. I can't make more gas. Your mileage and use case may vary a lot from mine, so you may find that gas is a better option for you, particularly if you operate a boat on plane.
Hey Wayne, great job on doing your research, and covering the details. I own the Newport NT300. Paired it up with a Ionic 36v 50ah battery. $1,200. It performs very well on my 15 foot Jon boat. And provides good range, and longevity. My boat is registered on several local reservoirs where electric is the only option.
@@zamianzaniel9833 Naw. He should stick with electric and not have to worry about mixing gas, changing oil, spark plugs, draining and winterizing, and all the other crap associated with ICE. ICE champions are the "get-a-horse!" guys of the 21st century.
Great video, learned a lot. I have a Newport NT300 paired with a Seaquest 36V 40Ah battery , $800 and will get a 2nd NT300 and pair it with a Seaquest 60Ah for $1200 on my 20 foot pontoon boat. By the way, the specs on the Newport 40ah $949 battery are really low. 50A continuous. I like a higher discharge rate to keep the power up , thats why I went with the Seaquest product. They have the highest discharge rate of any lithium battery I looked at. and they have the best price.
What sort of speeds you getting the NT300 on your pontoon boat? Been considering electric for my 22foot toon but I have a 40HP right now its not very quick...
Would of been nice to include range / run time. Not sure how durable or efficient those plastic props or lower units are. I think most could trouble shoot and fix a normal ice OB, not many ( right now ) could trouble shoot or fix an electric OB. Be careful not to drop that battery 😳. I’ll be sticking with the ICE OB for now
I've got the ePropulsion spirit, I got rid of a 2hp Honda to get it. No, it's not as inexpensive as a gas outboard, but it's got several other advantages that sold it to us and have made it worth it. First, on my diesel trawler, my outboard lives on deck and needs to be lowered by hand over a tall transom to the swim platform and then mounted on the rocking dingy in the water. Yes, I could possibly install a different dingy/motor management system, but the cost would be comparable or higher than the electric outboard and wouldn't solve many of the other issues with the gas motor. The Honda weighed 40lbs or so, which is doable, but neither my wife nor I are getting younger. It was a struggle to lift high enough and dropping it into the drink was always a risk. The ePropulsion splits up into two parts, each about 20 lbs. The lower unit is essentially waterproof, so we tie it to the boat and if it goes in, we can retrieve it, rinse it and it's fine. The battery floats and is sealed. Every season I had the Honda needed a carb clean or replace. This might have been avoided if I could always get ethanol-free gas, but that's not always possible. So, every season started with an hour or two of fiddling and tweaking to get the Honda to start and run well. Even well tuned, Honda could be difficult to start, with my wife frequently unable to start it. This caused her to avoid taking the dingy on her own. The ePropulsion is just a push of a button to start. The Honda was air cooled, which made it light and eliminated the need to maintain an impeller but made for a very noisy motor. Even at slow speeds, normal conversations were impossible, one had to yell to be heard. The ePropulsion is effectively silent. At any speed higher than a crawl the loudest sound is water gurgling at the transom. With the Honda I needed to keep at least one tank of fuel on a boat that otherwise needed no gasoline. This had to be either stored on deck or in a compartment, which could cause a fume hazard. I have a good house power system on my trawler and keeping my ePropulsion charged isn't a challenge. It's like having the fuel tank always full. Finally, while this isn't an issue with all small gas outboards, but the Honda uses a centrifigal clutch, which means that one needs to rev it above idle to move and needs to be spun around 180 degrees to do reverse. This makes slow speed maneuvering difficult. Every docking is at best a controlled crash and it's a good thing that inflatable dingys are basically one big fender. The ePrpulsion can go super slow ( as little as 5w of power ) and reverses with just a twist of the "throttle". Range of the charged ePropulsion is about the same as the Honda with a full internal tank. The difference is that I could bring a gas can with the Honda. That said, full throttle is not much faster than half throttle and the ePropulsion can go for about two hours at that speed. Nobody wants to spend two hours in a 10 foot dingy, so that's enough. All in all, the advantages of the ePropulsion that aren't directly related to costs are most of the things that we love most about it and so far it's been worth the price. It's been far easier to live with than the Honda and has been worth the price for an improved boating experience. That said, the build quality is far from as good as the Honda and I've got my doubts if it'll have even half as long a lifespan as the Honda would, which was 10 years old and running fine with no end in sight when I sold it. I guess part of that's the price of being an early adapter.
Would definitely be useful in the couple of electric only places here in Southern Maryland like Gilbert Run. Better than putting around there with my 46lb thrust trolling motor
You're focusing on cost, and that's fine. But for sailboat owners who keep their outboard clamped to the stern rail while underway, the issue is Weight...for lowering the outboard onto the dinghy without dropping it into the ocean. So when considering a four-stroke gasoline outboard (= 60 lbs., incl integral gas) many would add the cost of an installed davit-like hoist (Motor Mate $600; Nova Lift $900) when comparing it to an electric motor (engine = 23 lb., battery = 19 lbs., each juggled separately.
A bit unfair Wayne - outboard 6 gal fuel tank with hose and fittings - $80 (amazon) -Average $30 per 6gal tank in USA - $100 every 100Hrs to service....If I can get the range I want - Buying batteries is like buying fuel up front.
You make good points. For many boaters on a budget, the upfront costs are still a hurdle they aren’t comfortable with. Like a fisherman who has $5,000 worth of rods - but may have never spent more than $500 at a time on any one component.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy That's fair- I have been there too - But saying you can buy 2 for one (Gas to electric) is still a bit misleading. I'm setting up a cruising sailboat and dinghy - I only want one fuel on board...No propane, no gasoline...Since diesel outboards are rarer than a hens tooth - Electric it is...
I grew up on a small electric only lake man made lake. My parents still have a house there so electric is interesting to me. But it's hard for these modern brushless high voltage deals to compete with a decent trolling motor. Some of them are so low power I'm not sure they're gonna out perform a trolling motor and deep cycle batteries. Batteries for an RV or truck can last a couple hrs going slow. But to last this long with a multi HP lithium setup is going to need a lot of battery storage as it's not safe to drain them entirely. You have to know the nuances of charging multiple cell lithium and the limits of the stock chargers. Chargers for lower voltages such as RC can balance cells with a balance cable. but for large packs it's usually the responsibility of a battery management board to prevent over discharging and shut down the battery with a low cell voltage. You have to hope the BMS board has the tech to keep the cells balanced, keep you safe and not discharge any cells when it sits idle. I've seen several lithium powered products that really don't like to sit idle. I've had Bosch drill batteries shut down and refuse a recharge without opening things and charging cells individually. I've had a one wheel thing I think by razor have a 5s section of its 15s battery be dead by way of the bms drawing from them disproportionately. Without a well engineered charging system it may still be safe but it can also be a setup for disappointment. Seeing these prices makes me want to use my Rc knowledge and diy a setup after developing a big distrust of the common electric bicycle and other systems.
I have the 6hp tohatsu sail pro. It's about 68lbs. Putting that on the boat everytime i want to go out is back breaking. Other wise i love it but that alone has me looking into electric.
You might want to include the weight of all this stuff. When powering a small vessel, weight must be considered too. Ive always wondered about the torque vs. horsepower in outboards. It's really torque that is important. A less horsepower electric motor may have more torque than its equal horsepower gas counterpart. Hopefully you can do some comparisons!
I have sourced off the sehelf batteries for the NT300 for about half the price of the Newport battery. Plan to order one this spring when they become available in Canada.
Do you know if lead acid batteries in series will work with this Newport motor? I’ve heard that it will work but most people say that it needs the lithium battery for best performance thanks in advance for any info.
How does the total cost of ownership compare? Including fuel and electricity costs over the life of the motor? Batteries have so far been having way longer lifespans than anyone expected
I'm using a Haswing Ultima 3.0 on my 3m inflatable. Performance and range are similar to the eProp Spirit 1 and the Torqueedo 3.0. The Haswing lacks features like GPS and detailed battery and range information, with only 5 LEDs on a scale from 20% to 100% indicating remaining capacity. The Haswing differs from those motors by having a sturdy 2 prong battery connector integral with the top of the motor mount. I paid ~$AU 2600 (~$US1700) for the Haswing with the optional 30Ah battery. (Standard battery is 20Ah).
$2600 epropulsion spirit 1.0 plus has the battery built-in, on top. You can add their optional outboard batteries so you get more than about an hour at full throttle. Saw a reviewer give a slight negative nod to the connector quality, it's that obvious black plug at the top.
Very good comparison and video but I’m surprised you didn’t speak on the run time, with batteries on full blast you will run out of power while with a gas motor you simply fill it up and can fish all day and night without worrying about run time. The cost and power will not be sufficient for most it seems.
The cost of the batteries is the cost of Gas, oil, maintenance of a gas engine over years of use. Electric engines last longer and are infinitely safer than gas ones. Run time and recharge times are the usefulness limiting factors. GCB
I think we have a long way to go before electric outboards take over. Most boats using outboards are planning hulls. So they need lots of HP. And that requires lots of batteries. But weight kills a planning hull. The ones I have seen being used are on dingies going from bigger boats to shore. So they dont need to get on plane and dont need a lot of range. Inboards in a displacement hull, electric makes more sense to me. They dont need the power to get on plane because they cant, and many of them have hundreds of pounds of lead in the bottom for stability already. Lead that could be replaced with lots of cheap lead acid batteried. Mind you, you are still not going very fast, but those boats usually dont anyway. But if you have something like a houseboat that is in the marina plugged in 5 days a week an out crusing the lake for a few hours on the weekend, a bunch of cheap heavy lead acid batteries works. You can get range with enough batteries. Speed you never had to begen with. An your "fuel tank" refills over the week when its plugged in at the marina. That atleast make way more sense to me than trying to make electrics work as outboards for planning hull boats.
That newport looks to have a much larger battery than the other two, i have a 1000Wh battery, its about the size of 4 of those smaller 12V UPS batteries, but not quite as small as those 12v batteries used for emergency lighting. If i had to guess, the other two batteries are under 400Wh given the space available. Now personally i'd rather build my own battery, i was looking the other day for options for whole home solar, and youv can get 16x 3.2v 280AH cells and a 16S 250A BMS for around $3700, so i bought it, i havent deployed it yet but building it looks super simple, just strap them down properly, bridge them with the included bus bars, wire up the 16S BMS and tighten them down(dont compress them, just prevent them from expanding) Thats over 14KW of battery, for not much more than the torqueedo. Oh and this pack should be capable of a constant output of at least 10KW/13HP, or up to 20KW/26HP if i cool it properly, but at that power draw it would only run for 1H/0.5H respectively Thinking about it, a 10kw motor, on a pontoon, with a full length canopy, that is covered in the more efficient rigid solar cells(basically re-build the canopy to be a solar pannel) i could drive all day on solar around 3KW, and then have an hour of run time at 10HP
I think we have to factor in at least the cost of the petrol for your outboard. The figures I am presenting here I just looked up on the Suzuki and E-Propulsion websites. So, if they are way off let them know. The E-Propulsion Spirit 1.0 plus has a 1.276 kW battery and can be charged about 3000 times. In my neck-of-the-woods that would cost $0.17 per kwH * 1.276 * 3000 = $650 for the whole life of the battery. You can run the engine flat out for about an hour on one charge. But you can certainly run it for much longer at 1/2 throttle. The Suzuki 2.5 hp has a 1 litre (0.264 US gallon) tank, and the engine will use about 1.5 litres (0.4 gallons) per hour if you are running it at full throttle, and of course you'd have to fill it every 45 mins. So, to get the same run time you'd have to fill the gas tank 4500 times versus 3000 electric charges. Petrol where I am is about $1.8 / litre, so we get 4500 x $1.8 = $8,100. That is a huge difference in running costs, and does not include, oil, spark plugs and other general service which will be much more for the 2.5 hp gas engine. It's more money up-front, but much less in the long run. I can't speak for the cost efficiency of the bigger electric versus petrol engines. But for me, the smaller electric outboard is clearly the way to go. Thanks for the information and the food for thought.
Can’t wait for pricing to come down. One advantage of electric motors over the fossil fuelled variety that I have not seen mentioned here is the instant torque which will get you going faster. Another brand I have come across is ThrustMe from $2450. Not sure about their naming choices and expensive for 2hp equivalent but has a built in 259Wh battery and claims a 2.5 hour run time which seems good. Also eclassoutboards from Australia offer outboards up to 60hp if you have a spare $10,000 USD!
Newport nt300 will run on a lead acid 36v platform. Replacing my 36v 110lb thrust Motorguide trolling motor with it. Since I'm already set in the battery/charging dept, just swapping the motors out. Will see how it performs. $999
Well, haven't you heard about lakes with quiet zones where combustion engines are not allowed? Also, if your application allows, you can add to your investment solar panels and enjoy the lake all day long without a single drop of gas. At the end the electric option is not for everyone, but it is the life changer for some.
If you are in a location that has dingy motor theft taking an electric back in your car is actually cheaper. Then the integral battery systems you only need to grab the battery. Those batteries are pretty easy to rebuild after the 7 to 10 year lifespan is over.
A neighbour finished his 46 foot catamaran and motor sailed from Toronto to the Bahamas, much of the time running a 9.9hp motor, with a sail assist. He isn't sailing full out most of the time. Just has the jib up, kind of deal. He also had a 25hp for adverse conditions. Hard to beat that with these new electric systems. I don't consider electric overpriced as far as the value proposition is concerned, I just don't see the kind of plug and play set-up I need. I am more the kind of person who will spend money up front, but don't like to spend 20 bucks every time I pass the gas station. I would spend 10 K for a 9.9 level of power, if I could set it up with solar and batteries without too much difficulty.
I just bought a deep cycle battery for my RV. It was 90 bucks with the core exchange plus tax... Almost exactly 100 dollars. Three of these is 300 bucks. I am not exactly sure what the amp hours real life comparison would be but one advantage besides you could get more amp hours per dollar is they don't have the all the power and instantly dead characteristic of lithium
I did look at a Torquedo a few years ago. They bragged that the built in battery held as much energy as 1.5 oz of gas. The power and endurance weren't what I needed, and it weighed about the same as my 5 hp with 1 gal of fuel. Plus, it was expensive.
Mercury 750watt works out to under 3hp I believe. According to the epropulsion chart a 750watt setting on their own motor would a 2hp equivalent but the numbers could be nonsense. Does the shape of the "lower unit" on the Merc look like it might be a bit more "draggy"😁in the water?
Check Price of electricity In Italy and you'll understand why I'm sceptical. Would you make a list of those engines that can charge a battery pack using solar panels?
Considering the price of trolling motors, I don't understand why bigger electric motors are so expensive. They should be very simple to make. I have a 40 year old 9.9 that runs well that I hope to keep going until these prices come down. I expect big improvements in motor and battery tech. Also hoping for better battery form factor better integrated on the bottom of the boat that one can walk and put stuff on as well as providing better weight distribution. I am curious of the performance of say a 10 hp at low speed. Could one troll with it at very slow speeds? Eliminating a trolling motor would be great for decluttering and should be accounted for in costs.
Weight? Weight? (including batteries) This is critical. I’m on a sailing boat, and I have to pass down the outboard to someone in the tender. PLUS I have to drag the boat up a steal beach. Weight is critical.
I think electric motors are the way to go. No stopping at a gas station to fill up on the way to the lake, no mixing oil and gas, no stinky gas fumes, no draining gas out of the engine when you are done, no becoming a small engine mechanic when you forget to drain the gas, no potential explosive fuel sitting next to you. What’s not to like. You still have to buy gas for the cheaper motors so you just have to calculate your break even cost.
That is correct. There's many other variable including battery life, cost of gasoline, maintenance, cost of electricity etc. many of these vary widely by location and use.
Fact 1) 750w =1hp. As of May 2024 a 12v 100ah lithium base LIPO on Amazon is around $130- $140. Fact check me. Batteries connected in series the voltage adds up. 12+12=24v. 5 batteries in series = 60v. Amazon 10hp 60v electric outboard $523.00. 6 batteries $700 . $1223 10hp including batteries 🎉😊
Wayne!! Just discovered your boat videos and love them except... please! Please! Get rid of the ‘funny, graphics etc. You are enough. Friendly, informative with your own occasional humorous comments. Your great so you don’t need all the effects. They detract from all your excellent info. And with the time you save editing, you can do more great videos helping us boat newbies. I’m a Mac person so glad to see you’re one of us but I think your Mac would also advise you to lay off the fx. Xx
The POV expressed with regards to "you still need a battery" is incorrect. One should view the *battery* in an e-outboard as the equivalent of *fuel* in a gas outboard!
50 HP Elco can push an 18 foot pontoon to 15 mph. Big bucks: $9K for motor plus 96V batteries or about $4800 plus power management etc., Anyone else tried different electric motor set-ups to get more speed than trolling motors?
I have a e-propulsion. If you factor in the cost of fuel, the electric outboards become cheaper at some point. And when you factor in maintenance, oil changes and such that point is closer than you think. For me the silence, and knowing I don't put gasoline and oil into the water is worth it all. And then it's much easier to mount. You can carry the parts in one go, no problem. I would never go back to a fuel motor now.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Yes, the old version with 1kwh on the battery. It's quite the revelation compared to the old one. And I have enough range for a full day on the water
Respectfully, the cost of fuel is inconsequential. For all of my little trips I used just over a gallon last summer, so @ $3/gallon, after 100 years I would have saved $300 in fuel. Buying a $800 Zuke over a $2600 epropulsion leaves me $1800 for fuel. The stronger argument for epropulsion would be that it makes life "easy". 1) easier to maintain (no plugs, fuel, lower unit lube, engine oil, filters, etc 2) easier to carry a 20lb motor & 20lb battery than a 40lb outboard 3) easy to transport in my car (no fluids) 4) easy to store (no worries about storing on its side) 5) easy to run (no starting a finicky engine) 6) easy to talk (it's quiet) and a bonus it doesn't pollute the water.
As the size of electric outboards go up so does the weight of the battery! Plus the cost at this time is prohibitive! I will stay with my 9.9 Yamaha four stroke thank you!!!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy For those who are interested : Torqueedo 3.0 battery : "The matching charger Power 24-3500 has a charging current of 10 A and is waterproof according to IP 65. The charger charges the Power 24-3500 from 0 to 100% in max. 14 hours and Power 26-104 from 0 to 100% in max. 11 hours."
@@boatsandoutboards9070 all the more arguments to go the non proprietary route. When using ebike equivalent batteries (76V configured for high amperage) a fast-charge is under 2hrs (we're talking 2080% here anyways, let's be realistic). A LOT can already be done, especially when taking solar into the equation.
@@velotill A lot can be done but is it worth the effort for a 3hp outboard with a top speed of 5.5knots 1pax and 5-10mile range Let's just assume that you have a sailboat/motorboat, unlimited money & a spare battery & free space on the deck for extra solar panels.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy This is true, however they give me range anxiety. With a gas motor I can simply stop put fuel in it and takeoff. With an electric motor I have to know when the day is done so that I don’t run out of charge in the middle of nowhere.
U don't think that calculation is accurate at all. It depends on the amount of use, price of gas and all sorts of things like ability to charge up. How much is a rescue from the back lakes cost? These are only useful for people putting around in the marina or 1/4 mile from the launch with kiddos in tow. And in this video, he didn't even get into the usable engine sizes. I used to have a 9.9hp when I was 10yrs old on my aluminum fishing boat. I get it, it's great for a dingy on a sailboat, but where do u charge batteries. And I have large electric equipment and the charging time is a fatal blow because what good is a tool when u can't use it? U can just fill up the gas, or charge the battery or pay for extra batteries. How much is time, productivity and convenience worth? These are toys not tools yet.
If price wasn't an object, people wouldn't be looking for motors to power their SIB's. So it would be logical to assume people care deeply about the price. However, if you are finance savvy, you would consider the cost of gas vs electric charging as well as long term maintance costs. That may actually bring the two closer in price point even though the initial cost for electric is much higher.
Yes the long-term savings are certainly a factor, but in this video, to keep it simple I focused on the upfront cost, which is daunting for many people when it comes to buying 'new' technology that is more expensive than traditional.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy It was a great video. I wasn't referring to you, more of a 3rd person you as in "If one were finance savvy" I'm just curious what the numbers would look like after say 3 years of operational costs. I don't know anything about boats which is why I found your video! It was very helpful. Thank you.
The Spirit 1.0 plus is offered as shaft only (1500) or with battery (2500) for a few reasons. 1) Most don't know but the Spirit can run on an external battery source, not limited to the actual cowl battery pack. You can plug it into a Navy pack or one of their E series batteries. If you are already an ePro user you may already own one of these with a different outboard. 2) If for any reason you have damaged a lower unit beyond repair, but cowl battery pack is still good, it's listed in drop down option as seperate unit, not necessarily forced to buy total package.
Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but the battery and shaft are shipped in separate boxes under different sku's , so that may also be something to do with inventory categorization in relation to site/warehouse.
Great video, your channel is really thriving, I'm sure you will continue to find success!
Thanks @AnthonyJonesBrigadeBoats !
we have a torqueedo 3.0 on our tender... it's ok for limited use but really *really* nice not to have to worry about spilling fluids, winterizing, or (and this may be best) making a lot of noise, 1st thing in the morning, taking the dogs to shore for bio break. For us it wasn't so much about "the environment" (because I expect that battery longevity, lithium mining, etc. all negate any benefit of running off batteries), but about convenience and quiet.
That's a great 'real world' application - and speaks to many of the things I really like about electric options. The ease-of-operation and silence certainly have value.
A LiFePO4 battery is mostly copper and aluminum metal (like thick foil), carbon, and a small amount of other compounds, including the lithium salt. Plus whatever materials are used in the case. The good news is that the environmental impact of a LiFePO4 battery is significantly lower than the 10 years of gasoline it replaces. After 10 years, the old battery can be recycled into a new battery - can't do that with gas or diesel exhaust.
I run a newport vessels Nk-180 on my Kayak. (Ascend 128X) I love it . Caught it on sale, $750 vs $999. Add in a $500 24-V battery and it's $1150. I really like it. 4mph is easy to do and I can slow it down to .4 mph easily. That's pushing 100lb kayak, 260lb me, 30lbs gear, and motor with battery. (50lbs) I love it
isn't that a trolling motor?
yes cheap
On the verge of when not if. Pricing still needs to come down from the stratosphere. Electric vehicles are appliances. They need to be as reliable and priced as such. The countdown has begun. Competition will drop those prices.
Thanks for your review of what's available. We have both petrol, epropulsion and trolling motors. We use the epropulsion whenever possible because its quiet, does not have cables draped everywhere and has a long range because we can easily swap the battery pack for a fully charged one. This solution we find ideal except for the price of the spare battery packs.
Yes the spare battery pack are very expensive. Thanks for the info.
Nice round-up of options - retail cost comparisons with gas should also include total cost of ownership (gas & maintenance) We’re testing several of these motors now and designing our boats with more hydrodynamic hulls that require smaller batteries & lower propulsion to keep costs down for boaters who want to go electric & also have good range.
The work you all are doing is very interesting - and yeah ‘the cost of ownership’ is big factor to consider.
On that note, I'm about to (weather permitting) try out a strong electric trolling motor for getting my 18 ft. sail boat out of and back in to boat ramps, docks and mooring balls. For our local small lake sailing, this 55lbs thrust Endura Max and grp 27 deep cycle battery should do it. The boat is 1,100 lbs displacement but has a very hydrodynamic hull (Precision 18).
@@tonybarnes3858 that should do the job nicely!
Its nice to hear that the company is looking at all options for keeping cost down. I can not afford a boat living on a fixed income but love to fish. Water all around me and I just usually rent a john boat for fresh water fishing and use my Diehard 25 thrust motor to get around. For the salt water I am just stuck to shore or pier fishing.
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I think the biggest advantage to the electric outboards is the ability to go on the electric only lakes/ponds. 45min from my house there are about 10 lakes/ponds with public boat launches. But only 2 allow gas powered vessels. These electrics seem to outperform and weigh significantly less than trolling motors. That would be a cool comparison to do. Electric outboard vs trolling motor for a jon boat.
I believe Anthony Jones has a great video on that topic!
This is great information! Thank you! I like how the new mercury looks on the outside compared to the other ones. I hope is priced right!
It does have a cool look!
I just bought the 1.0 plus seems pretty well made so far and it can be hooked up to an external battery
Thank You for the video. I have had a Torqeedo for almost two years in my wooden traditional archipelago sailboat. The price was no issue since it's a hobby. Things I like are: I never have to transport gas cans in my car to the cabin. The motor starts instantly, really easy to give a little push to finish a tack in light winds or to go straight headwind in small narrow passages. No noise, birds beavers and neighbors don't mind. No smell. Things I don't like: the Torqeedo connector.
The connector seems to be most people's issue with Torqeedos!
Wayne, sometime you should have a livestream. Another idea that I had is have a video on solo boating. For those that want to try out solo boating. I enjoy solo boating.
Great video! Just ordered an NT300 for my Old Town Sportsman 154... Can't wait to try it out, I should be cruising at 7mph with a decent range (went with the 30ah). You nailed it- the biggest draw for me is the low (to no) maintenance and of course, over time, you recoup through fuel costs. The motor comes with a 2yr and battery 10yr warranty with 10K+ charge cycles. Yes, the price point is still in favor of gas, but I fish local reservoirs and don't have a choice regardless. Kuddos to Newport for putting out a good motor and an affordable price!
Hopefully yours will be in your hands soon! I am very eager to see these new Newport motors in person.
We have seen a 1000 fold increase in video views on our channel on all topics electric boating. I believe we will reach the tipping point for consumer acceptance within 5 years. Kudos for the review
I've been looking into electric outboards for my jon boat. The lack of noise is what I'm interested in. I hunt and trap a lot so if I can get around all day quietly that's a huge plus. You don't need a big motor for a 14 foot jon boat.
I’m going to be a snowbird soon and I want a small 12-14 boat with an electric motor. I was even thinking of about 200 watts of solar so I can troll all day. These prices are crazy. I can buy a nice dc motor, controller and speed control for under $500.
Think about a solar bimini top for all day charging for free. You could get to the point where you never have to plug it in
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Electric is a lot cleaner motor, but I think I'll stick to my 6hp Johnson 1988 Belgium. I use about 6 gallon a year. I take it out once or twice a week in the Lower Susquehanna and flats. at average $5. a gallon of ethanol free gas, that maybe $30-35 a year. This thing is super easy on gas, I also have 2 Newport Vessels 55 t-lbs which move my 14 footer pretty good I use at lakes that don't aloud gas motors. Think I'll wait for the price to come down on electric 6 hp motors or battery's, or hit the lottery.
Good call
Get new 6 hp. Has 6 Amp 12 volt akteener. 72 watt charging
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Great video but I've found the total cost of ownership is less as you don't have to get an electric motor serviced.
Fair enough! The total-cost-of-ownership certainly should be part of the equation and over time many of these outboards will build their reputations. That initial hurdle is still hard for many people to get clear.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy there's also the argument that boaties teens to be handy enough to do the service themselves. With a small engine that means the service is the cost of a spark plug which is still more expensive than not buying a spark plug but very palatable.
I think the on water experience is what seals the deal for me. I dream of the ePropulsion so spirit but currently run a minn Kota
I am considering a simple cheap trolling motor with an external 50 ah lithium ion battery for my 20ft daysailer. I don’t want/need to go long distances - just motor into/out of anchorages but this option is much less expensive than torqeedo/epropulsion etc. It is also much more versatile because it also provides a grunty 12v power source for eg Led lighting and electronics on my boat which otherwise I don’t have (plus I can take the battery off the boat and use it elsewhere if I want to). I reckon I should get ~3hrs running time at a medium power level with this set up. I will sell my noisy little Honda 2hp to defray the cost. I love the silence and simplicity of the electric motor option - particularly the “twist left for forward twist right for reverse” operation - so much better than turning the Honda through 180 degrees!
Yeah trolling motors work quite well in those situations! A neighbor has a $100 trolling motor on his sailboat that he uses to get in and out of the creek regularly.
Great video, thanks! I have been using an electric car for years and I am happy, for my use it is perfect. The maximum efficiency today possible. This spring I will have to equip my little tender with an outboard. So far I was not convinced of the offer of little ones (2-3 kW) but, thanks to your video now I know the Newport NT300. Maybe it will be my next outboard ...
I've been using electric motors for years I have a man Koda 38 lb thrust trolling motor only use that on small lakes or if I'm not going too far
I think most people who truly love and respect the outdoors love the idea of electric outboards. To this day I HATE seeing that little oil slick a 2-stroke leaves in the water. I didn't like it as a child, and I don't like it today. But, until they make a *affordable* outboard that truly competes in power up to 150hp, along with affordable batteries to run them.... it's just not practical. Now, these smaller trolling motors for kayaks, etc... There are some really cool options. A bit expensive for my budget, but the products themselves are neat. Great video! Thanks for sharing.
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With these small outboards I think power to weight ratio is a huge factor for me I would like to see the stats on that assuming 5 gallons of gas and the equivalent battery
It would be fun to do some real-world comparisons!
I've got the Spirit and I equate the battery to a bit more than the roughly .9l of fuel my previous Honda 2hp had. The Honda would run for ~45 minutes at full throttle and the Spirit will do a bit more than an hour, both push the boat ( 10' RIB ) at about the same speed. That leaves me to believe that, more or less, the 1276 Wh battery is roughly equivalent to 1.2l of gas. It's a rough guess, but I think 1kWh=1l of gas is in the ballpark.
That would make 5 gallons of gas ( about 19l ) equal to a 19kWh battery. That's a lot of battery, basically two of the largest batteries that ePropulsion currently supplies ( 10kWh) and about 200kg ( 440 lbs ) of batteries. 5 gallons of gas would weigh about 30lbs, plus a bit for a plastic gas can. So the power to weight ratio is heavily in favor of gasoline.
As a spirit outboard user, though, this isn't of much use to me. The power to convenience ratio leans pretty heavily towards the Spirit in my application. I never used more than a half a tank on the Honda, mostly because at the half throttle we normally ran at we got closer to two hours of run time ( similar of you back off the Spirit ) and nobody wants to sit in a dingy for two hours.
More important for me was now I don't have to store gas and oil on board. I make electricity any time the sun shines or I run the main ( diesel ) engine on the boat so I can charge the Spirit almost anytime. I can't make more gas.
Your mileage and use case may vary a lot from mine, so you may find that gas is a better option for you, particularly if you operate a boat on plane.
Hey Wayne, great job on doing your research, and covering the details. I own the Newport NT300. Paired it up with a Ionic 36v 50ah battery. $1,200. It performs very well on my 15 foot Jon boat. And provides good range, and longevity. My boat is registered on several local reservoirs where electric is the only option.
Or buy a 2 stroke and save half the price and not worry about stupid battery’s lol
@@zamianzaniel9833 Naw. He should stick with electric and not have to worry about mixing gas, changing oil, spark plugs, draining and winterizing, and all the other crap associated with ICE. ICE champions are the "get-a-horse!" guys of the 21st century.
Great video, learned a lot. I have a Newport NT300 paired with a Seaquest 36V 40Ah battery , $800 and will get a 2nd NT300 and pair it with a Seaquest 60Ah for $1200 on my 20 foot pontoon boat. By the way, the specs on the Newport 40ah $949 battery are really low. 50A continuous. I like a higher discharge rate to keep the power up , thats why I went with the Seaquest product. They have the highest discharge rate of any lithium battery I looked at. and they have the best price.
What sort of speeds you getting the NT300 on your pontoon boat? Been considering electric for my 22foot toon but I have a 40HP right now its not very quick...
Would of been nice to include range / run time.
Not sure how durable or efficient those plastic props or lower units are.
I think most could trouble shoot and fix a normal ice OB, not many ( right now ) could trouble shoot or fix an electric OB. Be careful not to drop that battery 😳. I’ll be sticking with the ICE OB for now
I've got the ePropulsion spirit, I got rid of a 2hp Honda to get it.
No, it's not as inexpensive as a gas outboard, but it's got several other advantages that sold it to us and have made it worth it.
First, on my diesel trawler, my outboard lives on deck and needs to be lowered by hand over a tall transom to the swim platform and then mounted on the rocking dingy in the water. Yes, I could possibly install a different dingy/motor management system, but the cost would be comparable or higher than the electric outboard and wouldn't solve many of the other issues with the gas motor.
The Honda weighed 40lbs or so, which is doable, but neither my wife nor I are getting younger. It was a struggle to lift high enough and dropping it into the drink was always a risk.
The ePropulsion splits up into two parts, each about 20 lbs. The lower unit is essentially waterproof, so we tie it to the boat and if it goes in, we can retrieve it, rinse it and it's fine. The battery floats and is sealed.
Every season I had the Honda needed a carb clean or replace. This might have been avoided if I could always get ethanol-free gas, but that's not always possible. So, every season started with an hour or two of fiddling and tweaking to get the Honda to start and run well.
Even well tuned, Honda could be difficult to start, with my wife frequently unable to start it. This caused her to avoid taking the dingy on her own. The ePropulsion is just a push of a button to start.
The Honda was air cooled, which made it light and eliminated the need to maintain an impeller but made for a very noisy motor. Even at slow speeds, normal conversations were impossible, one had to yell to be heard. The ePropulsion is effectively silent. At any speed higher than a crawl the loudest sound is water gurgling at the transom.
With the Honda I needed to keep at least one tank of fuel on a boat that otherwise needed no gasoline. This had to be either stored on deck or in a compartment, which could cause a fume hazard. I have a good house power system on my trawler and keeping my ePropulsion charged isn't a challenge. It's like having the fuel tank always full.
Finally, while this isn't an issue with all small gas outboards, but the Honda uses a centrifigal clutch, which means that one needs to rev it above idle to move and needs to be spun around 180 degrees to do reverse. This makes slow speed maneuvering difficult. Every docking is at best a controlled crash and it's a good thing that inflatable dingys are basically one big fender. The ePrpulsion can go super slow ( as little as 5w of power ) and reverses with just a twist of the "throttle".
Range of the charged ePropulsion is about the same as the Honda with a full internal tank. The difference is that I could bring a gas can with the Honda. That said, full throttle is not much faster than half throttle and the ePropulsion can go for about two hours at that speed. Nobody wants to spend two hours in a 10 foot dingy, so that's enough.
All in all, the advantages of the ePropulsion that aren't directly related to costs are most of the things that we love most about it and so far it's been worth the price. It's been far easier to live with than the Honda and has been worth the price for an improved boating experience.
That said, the build quality is far from as good as the Honda and I've got my doubts if it'll have even half as long a lifespan as the Honda would, which was 10 years old and running fine with no end in sight when I sold it. I guess part of that's the price of being an early adapter.
That's a really great comparison! Thank you for sharing!!
Would definitely be useful in the couple of electric only places here in Southern Maryland like Gilbert Run. Better than putting around there with my 46lb thrust trolling motor
I’m sure some of these will be on those waters
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You're focusing on cost, and that's fine. But for sailboat owners who keep their outboard clamped to the stern rail while underway, the issue is Weight...for lowering the outboard onto the dinghy without dropping it into the ocean.
So when considering a four-stroke gasoline outboard (= 60 lbs., incl integral gas) many would add the cost of an installed davit-like hoist (Motor Mate $600; Nova Lift $900) when comparing it to an electric motor (engine = 23 lb., battery = 19 lbs., each juggled separately.
A bit unfair Wayne - outboard 6 gal fuel tank with hose and fittings - $80 (amazon) -Average $30 per 6gal tank in USA - $100 every 100Hrs to service....If I can get the range I want - Buying batteries is like buying fuel up front.
You make good points. For many boaters on a budget, the upfront costs are still a hurdle they aren’t comfortable with. Like a fisherman who has $5,000 worth of rods - but may have never spent more than $500 at a time on any one component.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy That's fair- I have been there too - But saying you can buy 2 for one (Gas to electric) is still a bit misleading. I'm setting up a cruising sailboat and dinghy - I only want one fuel on board...No propane, no gasoline...Since diesel outboards are rarer than a hens tooth - Electric it is...
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I grew up on a small electric only lake man made lake. My parents still have a house there so electric is interesting to me. But it's hard for these modern brushless high voltage deals to compete with a decent trolling motor. Some of them are so low power I'm not sure they're gonna out perform a trolling motor and deep cycle batteries. Batteries for an RV or truck can last a couple hrs going slow. But to last this long with a multi HP lithium setup is going to need a lot of battery storage as it's not safe to drain them entirely. You have to know the nuances of charging multiple cell lithium and the limits of the stock chargers. Chargers for lower voltages such as RC can balance cells with a balance cable. but for large packs it's usually the responsibility of a battery management board to prevent over discharging and shut down the battery with a low cell voltage. You have to hope the BMS board has the tech to keep the cells balanced, keep you safe and not discharge any cells when it sits idle. I've seen several lithium powered products that really don't like to sit idle. I've had Bosch drill batteries shut down and refuse a recharge without opening things and charging cells individually. I've had a one wheel thing I think by razor have a 5s section of its 15s battery be dead by way of the bms drawing from them disproportionately. Without a well engineered charging system it may still be safe but it can also be a setup for disappointment. Seeing these prices makes me want to use my Rc knowledge and diy a setup after developing a big distrust of the common electric bicycle and other systems.
Just the video I wanted to see, thanks!
Love the video and your delivery, Consider the "cost" equation to include fuel and maintenance for a couple years.
I have the 6hp tohatsu sail pro. It's about 68lbs. Putting that on the boat everytime i want to go out is back breaking. Other wise i love it but that alone has me looking into electric.
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Looks like a Sleipner external thruster sold by IMTRA Corporation New Bedford Ma - it now has a full cowling to mount flush.
You might want to include the weight of all this stuff. When powering a small vessel, weight must be considered too.
Ive always wondered about the torque vs. horsepower in outboards.
It's really torque that is important.
A less horsepower electric motor may have more torque than its equal horsepower gas counterpart.
Hopefully you can do some comparisons!
thank you with the information you research and provided. thanks
You forgot to add gas and maintenance or electricity cost. That may be changes things a bit.
I have sourced off the sehelf batteries for the NT300 for about half the price of the Newport battery. Plan to order one this spring when they become available in Canada.
Do you know if lead acid batteries in series will work with this Newport motor? I’ve heard that it will work but most people say that it needs the lithium battery for best performance thanks in advance for any info.
Hey that's me @0:03! Lol. I've been running an electric motor since the 1970's! As in an electric Ted Williams Sears and Roebuck trolling motor
One thing you did not mention is that you can charge on solar, so no hassle getting fuel.
How about an electric option to replace an aging gas IO engine?
I have been looking into that a little bit. It seems many of the options are designed to be inboard for displacement hulls like sailboats.
How does the total cost of ownership compare? Including fuel and electricity costs over the life of the motor?
Batteries have so far been having way longer lifespans than anyone expected
Excellent and invaluable
I'm using a Haswing Ultima 3.0 on my 3m inflatable. Performance and range are similar to the eProp Spirit 1 and the Torqueedo 3.0. The Haswing lacks features like GPS and detailed battery and range information, with only 5 LEDs on a scale from 20% to 100% indicating remaining capacity.
The Haswing differs from those motors by having a sturdy 2 prong battery connector integral with the top of the motor mount. I paid ~$AU 2600 (~$US1700) for the Haswing with the optional 30Ah battery. (Standard battery is 20Ah).
$2600 epropulsion spirit 1.0 plus has the battery built-in, on top. You can add their optional outboard batteries so you get more than about an hour at full throttle. Saw a reviewer give a slight negative nod to the connector quality, it's that obvious black plug at the top.
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Very good comparison and video but I’m surprised you didn’t speak on the run time, with batteries on full blast you will run out of power while with a gas motor you simply fill it up and can fish all day and night without worrying about run time. The cost and power will not be sufficient for most it seems.
Look, also, at the TEMO-450 and the EP Carry for small dinghies.
The cost of the batteries is the cost of Gas, oil, maintenance of a gas engine over years of use.
Electric engines last longer and are infinitely safer than gas ones.
Run time and recharge times are the usefulness limiting factors.
GCB
I think we have a long way to go before electric outboards take over. Most boats using outboards are planning hulls. So they need lots of HP. And that requires lots of batteries. But weight kills a planning hull. The ones I have seen being used are on dingies going from bigger boats to shore. So they dont need to get on plane and dont need a lot of range.
Inboards in a displacement hull, electric makes more sense to me. They dont need the power to get on plane because they cant, and many of them have hundreds of pounds of lead in the bottom for stability already. Lead that could be replaced with lots of cheap lead acid batteried. Mind you, you are still not going very fast, but those boats usually dont anyway. But if you have something like a houseboat that is in the marina plugged in 5 days a week an out crusing the lake for a few hours on the weekend, a bunch of cheap heavy lead acid batteries works. You can get range with enough batteries. Speed you never had to begen with. An your "fuel tank" refills over the week when its plugged in at the marina.
That atleast make way more sense to me than trying to make electrics work as outboards for planning hull boats.
That newport looks to have a much larger battery than the other two, i have a 1000Wh battery, its about the size of 4 of those smaller 12V UPS batteries, but not quite as small as those 12v batteries used for emergency lighting.
If i had to guess, the other two batteries are under 400Wh given the space available.
Now personally i'd rather build my own battery, i was looking the other day for options for whole home solar, and youv can get 16x 3.2v 280AH cells and a 16S 250A BMS for around $3700, so i bought it, i havent deployed it yet but building it looks super simple, just strap them down properly, bridge them with the included bus bars, wire up the 16S BMS and tighten them down(dont compress them, just prevent them from expanding)
Thats over 14KW of battery, for not much more than the torqueedo.
Oh and this pack should be capable of a constant output of at least 10KW/13HP, or up to 20KW/26HP if i cool it properly, but at that power draw it would only run for 1H/0.5H respectively
Thinking about it, a 10kw motor, on a pontoon, with a full length canopy, that is covered in the more efficient rigid solar cells(basically re-build the canopy to be a solar pannel) i could drive all day on solar around 3KW, and then have an hour of run time at 10HP
What differentiates an electric outboard from a trolling motor?
These electric outboards have more power and higher top end speed than trolling motors.
U don't wanna rely on an electric outboard!
I think we have to factor in at least the cost of the petrol for your outboard. The figures I am presenting here I just looked up on the Suzuki and E-Propulsion websites. So, if they are way off let them know.
The E-Propulsion Spirit 1.0 plus has a 1.276 kW battery and can be charged about 3000 times. In my neck-of-the-woods that would cost $0.17 per kwH * 1.276 * 3000 = $650 for the whole life of the battery. You can run the engine flat out for about an hour on one charge. But you can certainly run it for much longer at 1/2 throttle.
The Suzuki 2.5 hp has a 1 litre (0.264 US gallon) tank, and the engine will use about 1.5 litres (0.4 gallons) per hour if you are running it at full throttle, and of course you'd have to fill it every 45 mins. So, to get the same run time you'd have to fill the gas tank 4500 times versus 3000 electric charges. Petrol where I am is about $1.8 / litre, so we get 4500 x $1.8 = $8,100. That is a huge difference in running costs, and does not include, oil, spark plugs and other general service which will be much more for the 2.5 hp gas engine.
It's more money up-front, but much less in the long run. I can't speak for the cost efficiency of the bigger electric versus petrol engines. But for me, the smaller electric outboard is clearly the way to go.
Thanks for the information and the food for thought.
Can’t wait for pricing to come down. One advantage of electric motors over the fossil fuelled variety that I have not seen mentioned here is the instant torque which will get you going faster.
Another brand I have come across is ThrustMe from $2450. Not sure about their naming choices and expensive for 2hp equivalent but has a built in 259Wh battery and claims a 2.5 hour run time which seems good.
Also eclassoutboards from Australia offer outboards up to 60hp if you have a spare $10,000 USD!
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Great review !
Newport nt300 will run on a lead acid 36v platform. Replacing my 36v 110lb thrust Motorguide trolling motor with it. Since I'm already set in the battery/charging dept, just swapping the motors out. Will see how it performs. $999
Well, haven't you heard about lakes with quiet zones where combustion engines are not allowed? Also, if your application allows, you can add to your investment solar panels and enjoy the lake all day long without a single drop of gas. At the end the electric option is not for everyone, but it is the life changer for some.
Great channel just wanted to ask you if you tried out that new Newport 3 hp yet
I have! Here's that video - ruclips.net/video/XnYc-48ohZY/видео.html
If you are in a location that has dingy motor theft taking an electric back in your car is actually cheaper. Then the integral battery systems you only need to grab the battery. Those batteries are pretty easy to rebuild after the 7 to 10 year lifespan is over.
A neighbour finished his 46 foot catamaran and motor sailed from Toronto to the Bahamas, much of the time running a 9.9hp motor, with a sail assist. He isn't sailing full out most of the time. Just has the jib up, kind of deal. He also had a 25hp for adverse conditions. Hard to beat that with these new electric systems.
I don't consider electric overpriced as far as the value proposition is concerned, I just don't see the kind of plug and play set-up I need. I am more the kind of person who will spend money up front, but don't like to spend 20 bucks every time I pass the gas station. I would spend 10 K for a 9.9 level of power, if I could set it up with solar and batteries without too much difficulty.
I just bought a deep cycle battery for my RV. It was 90 bucks with the core exchange plus tax... Almost exactly 100 dollars. Three of these is 300 bucks. I am not exactly sure what the amp hours real life comparison would be but one advantage besides you could get more amp hours per dollar is they don't have the all the power and instantly dead characteristic of lithium
chief goes you /$910 add solar rv
I did look at a Torquedo a few years ago. They bragged that the built in battery held as much energy as 1.5 oz of gas.
The power and endurance weren't what I needed, and it weighed about the same as my 5 hp with 1 gal of fuel.
Plus, it was expensive.
5 hp prpanw oitbard
I recommend try it on water then behind desk :)
Nice report, thank you!
And what about Hangkai e-motors?
Great video- going with a Honda 2.3 and a cup of gas
You stoped when it was coming interesting.... I would like to see the comparaison with bigger motors like 25, 50, 80hp etc...
That may be a video for 2024!
Mercury 750watt works out to under 3hp I believe. According to the epropulsion chart a 750watt setting on their own motor would a 2hp equivalent but the numbers could be nonsense. Does the shape of the "lower unit" on the Merc look like it might be a bit more "draggy"😁in the water?
I went to a sportsman show in my area that had a display of the Mercury Avator and he said it would cost somewhere between $3,200 and $3,500.
Ow!
Check Price of electricity In Italy and you'll understand why I'm sceptical.
Would you make a list of those engines that can charge a battery pack using solar panels?
The gaz engine need a gaz tank and maybe other things.... should you compare all need parts? Thanks
Considering the price of trolling motors, I don't understand why bigger electric motors are so expensive. They should be very simple to make.
I have a 40 year old 9.9 that runs well that I hope to keep going until these prices come down. I expect big improvements in motor and battery tech.
Also hoping for better battery form factor better integrated on the bottom of the boat that one can walk and put stuff on as well as providing better weight distribution.
I am curious of the performance of say a 10 hp at low speed. Could one troll with it at very slow speeds? Eliminating a trolling motor would be great for decluttering and should be accounted for in costs.
Weight?
Weight?
(including batteries)
This is critical.
I’m on a sailing boat, and I have to pass down the outboard to someone in the tender. PLUS I have to drag the boat up a steal beach.
Weight is critical.
I think electric motors are the way to go. No stopping at a gas station to fill up on the way to the lake, no mixing oil and gas, no stinky gas fumes, no draining gas out of the engine when you are done, no becoming a small engine mechanic when you forget to drain the gas, no potential explosive fuel sitting next to you. What’s not to like. You still have to buy gas for the cheaper motors so you just have to calculate your break even cost.
Cost savings that make it not so bad. A fuel cost. It’s cheaper to refill than gas. B no winterizing with all the fluids. C no tune ups or maintenance
Unfortunately you are only looking at the upfront cost noting the servicing costs of the petrol versions
That is correct. There's many other variable including battery life, cost of gasoline, maintenance, cost of electricity etc. many of these vary widely by location and use.
How is the HP determined? 1 HP is equivalent to about 3/4 kW in the international measurement standards.
I’m not certain how they do it
some of the city water lakes i fish are electric only and thats why im looking at electric outboards
It's becoming more common all the time!
To me you can buy a small Suzuki plus a trolling motor for same price as the electric outboard
Arjbg
Fact 1) 750w =1hp. As of May 2024 a 12v 100ah lithium base LIPO on Amazon is around $130- $140. Fact check me. Batteries connected in series the voltage adds up. 12+12=24v. 5 batteries in series = 60v. Amazon 10hp 60v electric outboard $523.00. 6 batteries $700 . $1223 10hp including batteries 🎉😊
Wayne!! Just discovered your boat videos and love them except... please! Please! Get rid of the ‘funny, graphics etc. You are enough. Friendly, informative with your own occasional humorous comments. Your great so you don’t need all the effects. They detract from all your excellent info. And with the time you save editing, you can do more great videos helping us boat newbies. I’m a Mac person so glad to see you’re one of us but I think your Mac would also advise you to lay off the fx. Xx
The POV expressed with regards to "you still need a battery" is incorrect.
One should view the *battery* in an e-outboard as the equivalent of *fuel* in a gas outboard!
50 HP Elco can push an 18 foot pontoon to 15 mph. Big bucks: $9K for motor plus 96V batteries or about $4800 plus power management etc., Anyone else tried different electric motor set-ups to get more speed than trolling motors?
yes opabjg soéd
I think I will keep my 1970's model Diehard 25 thrust electric motor, just bought a new battery for it and the battery cost more than the motor.
new troliñg motor batery guyage
I have a e-propulsion. If you factor in the cost of fuel, the electric outboards become cheaper at some point. And when you factor in maintenance, oil changes and such that point is closer than you think. For me the silence, and knowing I don't put gasoline and oil into the water is worth it all. And then it's much easier to mount. You can carry the parts in one go, no problem.
I would never go back to a fuel motor now.
Do you have the Spirit 1.0?
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Yes, the old version with 1kwh on the battery. It's quite the revelation compared to the old one. And I have enough range for a full day on the water
Respectfully, the cost of fuel is inconsequential. For all of my little trips I used just over a gallon last summer, so @ $3/gallon, after 100 years I would have saved $300 in fuel. Buying a $800 Zuke over a $2600 epropulsion leaves me $1800 for fuel. The stronger argument for epropulsion would be that it makes life "easy". 1) easier to maintain (no plugs, fuel, lower unit lube, engine oil, filters, etc 2) easier to carry a 20lb motor & 20lb battery than a 40lb outboard 3) easy to transport in my car (no fluids) 4) easy to store (no worries about storing on its side) 5) easy to run (no starting a finicky engine) 6) easy to talk (it's quiet) and a bonus it doesn't pollute the water.
No more buying fuel ...no more buying oil n no more changing the impeller out.... no more breathing fumes
And instant starting!
exactly, since local pollution (gas/noise) doesn't seem to be a relevant argument which is kinda sad.
For an EV rest bed to get them more efficient and better range, making an EV boat does make sense
As the size of electric outboards go up so does the weight of the battery! Plus the cost at this time is prohibitive! I will stay with my 9.9 Yamaha four stroke thank you!!!
I am kinda of already electric..... Al the lake in fish on are trolling motor only .... Main 1 I am on no gas boats at all also no wake
Wayne, isn't it worth mentioning how difficult it is to charge those heavy batteries? You just skipped that part...
For this video I wanted to just focus on the choices we now have and the current upfront costs.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy For those who are interested : Torqueedo 3.0 battery : "The matching charger Power 24-3500 has a charging current of 10 A and is waterproof according to IP 65. The charger charges the Power 24-3500 from 0 to 100% in max. 14 hours and Power 26-104 from 0 to 100% in max. 11 hours."
@@boatsandoutboards9070 all the more arguments to go the non proprietary route. When using ebike equivalent batteries (76V configured for high amperage) a fast-charge is under 2hrs (we're talking 2080% here anyways, let's be realistic).
A LOT can already be done, especially when taking solar into the equation.
@@velotill A lot can be done but is it worth the effort for a 3hp outboard with a top speed of 5.5knots 1pax and 5-10mile range
Let's just assume that you have a sailboat/motorboat, unlimited money & a spare battery & free space on the deck for extra solar panels.
Candela makes an entire electric boat system but as for outboards Minn Kota has been doing this for *DECADES* now.
Never having to deal with oil changes, water pumps, gas, and gunked up carburetors = Priceless…
The consumer never wins!
I had looked into these recently, but for the prices they’re asking the range just isn’t enough
When fuel prices are low - the value isn’t nearly the same as when gas is expensive.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy This is true, however they give me range anxiety. With a gas motor I can simply stop put fuel in it and takeoff. With an electric motor I have to know when the day is done so that I don’t run out of charge in the middle of nowhere.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy I can use my 6hp 4stroke yam for fishing all my spots and rarely burn more than a gallon
You can buy a 36v/ 100Ah battery for the Newport nk300 for $999.00
80% of 8 years cost of fuel should be included in combustion calculations. Now which is more costly?
U don't think that calculation is accurate at all. It depends on the amount of use, price of gas and all sorts of things like ability to charge up. How much is a rescue from the back lakes cost? These are only useful for people putting around in the marina or 1/4 mile from the launch with kiddos in tow. And in this video, he didn't even get into the usable engine sizes. I used to have a 9.9hp when I was 10yrs old on my aluminum fishing boat. I get it, it's great for a dingy on a sailboat, but where do u charge batteries. And I have large electric equipment and the charging time is a fatal blow because what good is a tool when u can't use it? U can just fill up the gas, or charge the battery or pay for extra batteries. How much is time, productivity and convenience worth? These are toys not tools yet.
Milwaukee will make one soon
For kayak people yes
But getting a good lithium battery ( weight issue) is $,$$$
Small boat….
Will be gas
The battery expense is the real killer to the electric option. Gasoline is a whole lot less $$ than batteries.
Maintenance costs will negate any savings
I like not leaving an oil slick on my favorite fishing spot
If price wasn't an object, people wouldn't be looking for motors to power their SIB's. So it would be logical to assume people care deeply about the price. However, if you are finance savvy, you would consider the cost of gas vs electric charging as well as long term maintance costs. That may actually bring the two closer in price point even though the initial cost for electric is much higher.
Yes the long-term savings are certainly a factor, but in this video, to keep it simple I focused on the upfront cost, which is daunting for many people when it comes to buying 'new' technology that is more expensive than traditional.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy It was a great video. I wasn't referring to you, more of a 3rd person you as in "If one were finance savvy" I'm just curious what the numbers would look like after say 3 years of operational costs. I don't know anything about boats which is why I found your video! It was very helpful. Thank you.