Who's faster? Explained and Simulated - Horsepower vs Torque
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2024
- So here we have two identical vehicles. The only difference between them is that one makes 1000 horsepower and 500 pound feet of torque and the other makes 500 horsepower and 1000 pound feet of torque. The question is: If we these two vehicles faced each other on a quarter mile drag course, which one would win? Horsepower or torque?
Well that’s the question we will answer today and by answering it we will gain a more profound understanding of horsepower torque and vehicle dynamics and possibly also a headache. So let’s get started
Now these numbers are peak torque and peak horsepower numbers but before we use them we need to know at what engine rpm do these peak numbers occur. To make things fair we will say that peak horsepower and peak torque occurs at the same rpm for both vehicles. So let’s just say that peak horsepower occurs at 5000 rpm and let’s say that peak torque occurs at 2500 rpm.
Now if you already know a bit about torque and horsepower you might be able to tell that there’s something wrong with one of our engines. And to demonstrate the issue as well as our first lesson of this video I will use this convenient little formula and it says that horsepower is equal to torque times rpm divided by 5252. The same formula for metric units would be Kilowatts equal torque in Nm times rpm divided by 9549, but I’ll be using imperial units today because later in the video we’ll be plugging numbers into a simulation software that’s programmed in imperial units. But the lessons and concepts explored in this video are completely independent from and are equally valid whether you use metric or imperial.
Now we’re going to learn something about horsepower and torque by demonstrating how our horsepower biased engine is actually impossible. We will then fix this engine to make our drag race fair and possible.
Let’s say that we want to find out what kind of torque this engine generates at peak horsepower rpm which is as we said 5000. So according to our formula 1000 = x times 5000 / 5252. If we solve for X This gives us 1050.4 pound feet of torque. Which is higher than our peak torque of 500. Things don’t add up. As you can see from our simple formula horsepower is torque times rpm divided by a constant, so horsepower is essentially torque times rpm. In other words horsepower within itself contains both the amount of torque and the frequency of torque application. In the simplest terms possible: horsepower is torque over time where time is represented by rpm, rotations per minute.
So if we are achieving 1000 horsepower at 5000 rpm than our peak torque simply cannot be 500 pound feet. And that’s because horsepower is a product of both torque value and frequency of its application. If both torque and the frequency of it’s application is high then horsepower will of course also be high. It is impossible to have high horsepower with very low torque. The only way to achieve that is to make up for the low torque with a very high frequency of torque application, or very high rpm. If you can’t punch very hard then you have to deliver more punches im the same period of time to deliver the same amount of damage.
In our case we have a high horsepower figure, 1000 at a relatively low rpm, 5000, and this tells us our torque must be high. In other words we’re dealing a lot of damage with a relatively low number of punches and this tells us that each of our punches definitely packs a punch. This teaches us how torque, horsepower and rpm are inter-connected. It is incorrect and misleading to try and observe and compare them isolated from each other.
So if we want to have a 1000 horsepower and 500 pound feet of torque engine then peak horsepower cannot be delivered at 5000 rpm. If we want to do the same damage but keep our punches weak then we must increase the number of punches delivered.
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#d4a #horsepower #torque
00:00 Explanation
05:40 Simulation
11:56 Results 
Авто/Мото
This man always sounds like he's recording at 1am and trying not to wake up his roommates
It’s annoying but his content is good
He has a day job as well so videos are made at night.
Convenient, because I'm watchin at 1 am.
I just came to write this 😂 Feels like the children are sleeping next door and he doesn't want to wake them up 😂😂😂
It does’t matter how he speaks but what he’s saying…!
Something that wasn't considered : if you make a lot of horsepower at high rpm, you can use shorter gearing to have higher wheel torque and still benefit from the high hp figure.
Especially when you have movie car transmissions with at least 15 gears 🤣. He does a great job with basic concepts and then opens your eyes to the many many factors affecting actual performance in the seemingly simple sport of drag racing. That simulator he was using was great! I created one in school that had about 20 variables to predict a 1/4 mile run of an actual car and to see how close you could get to the actual run. It was fun and opened our eyes to how complex it truly is.
He literally added a transmission into the equation and thus determined torque bias being too overwhelming. Even added in a final drive and better tire factor. That’s the point of the whole video… adding variable factors to suit you ho/tq numbers completely change the results of the static output of X engine.
should have tested 10 speed or 8 speed or CVT@@theclamhammer4447
And how many gears would you need?
@@erikziak1249 at least one
Love the analogy of Torque = damage per hit, HP = DPS.
A lot of people that are knowledgeable with cars will keep parroting that "torque = acceleration and power = top speed". Engine performance is 100% determined by power in the power band. People are under the impression that low torque is unresponsive but that's because casual drivers avoid the sound of high RPM.
That’s what I keep telling people. They don’t let the RPM go high enough for the engine to pay off and then they say their car is too weak.
Of course people are trying to save gas, not red line at every 🚦. In the other hand Automatic transmission will do that if you floor it. A civic for example casual acceleration it will make it rev high
The analogy is HP is damage per minute, not dps
@@pyropulseIXXI Gamers say dps to refer to total damage in a lot of situations, and while it does come off as incorrect in the way you present it, the analogy makes sense if you play games that have damage scaling and sweaty players.
But sometimes the engine don't like it in case of longevity...that need to be revved usually means more abuse. But high torque car you can operare calmly in low RPM and be as fast maybe even faster and no engine wear happens.@@weekendmagus9994
Would you agree that an engine that "feels torquey" just means that it's likely producing its HP lower in its RPM range than an engine of the same HP that feels less torquey? I can see the engineer rolling her eyes.
I'm a race engineer. It's a little different now, but we used to change intake trumpets and exhaust lengths to change the power curve and we had about 40 ratios to choose from (5 speed gearbox) to optimize the rev band. The goal is to achieve the highest average engine power per lap, or greatest fuel consumption (a good surrogate), which usually means you're the fastest.
Uh setting up a car-track-driver combination is a neat science and to some degree a art.
How much speed can you carry? How much power do we have? How do we scale RPM vs torque over the gears? Can we utilise some extra topspeed with a slipstream?
I used to race Karts in my teens and pre teens. I used to change expansion chamber sizes and head tube length (depending on what the class rules allowed.) To get a little more torque in the low to mid rpm range.(It was easier than changing gearing most of the time.
Its a little different now?🧐
Handling beats speed unless you're on a drag strip or going in circus I mean circles I mean ovals.
@@ClosestNearUtopiahey! no emoji here!
easily the best automotive science channel on youtube. your ability to efficiently breakdown concepts with effective examples is so helpful to anyone learning about automotive technology.
100% 👍
RUclips ????
Probably the entire Internet at this point mate
You want to learn every single detail about a car and I mean every single thing you can think of a cars performance
This is your go to guy
Have to warn Jason about this guy huh
@@owaisahmed5353engineering explained also makes great engineering videos on vehicles.
@@owaisahmed5353Engineering Explained is way better
Am i the only one who is more confused 😂😂
i love how calm you are and how you talk with a low voice, it is soothing to watch
The reason the high torque car is faster in some of the scenarios is because it actually has more horsepower than the high horsepower car at the rpms the cars are being forced to operate in. At 2500rpm the high horsepower car only has half the horsepower of the high torque car (because it has half the torque at the same rpm).
there is no such thing as a car with higher hp than torque
@@heldermonteiro2718what? I have a 900 whp sti but with only 600 torque lol. You don’t know what you’re talking about
@@TheCarBro that's stupid
..Any engine with a power peak at an rpm higher than 5252 will generally have more hp than torque.
It would be possible to make an engine with a large torque peak below 5252 rpm, and a peak hp that is a lower number, but above 5252 rpm. But weird. Mathematically possible...I can't think of any, though.
It is true that ANY engine with a power peak at lower than 5252 rpm will always have a higher torque than that power, whatever it is.
area under the curve essentially. Through the gears, two otherwise identical cars, the car with the highest area under the torque curve will be the fastest
The punches explanation is actually awesome, as it helps describe how transmissions work. The horsepower you put in to the transmission is the same as the horsepower you get out, so the same damage per second. But in first gear, you do less frequent but more powerful punches. In higher gears your damage is reduced but your attack speed is increased!
Same damage output, different speed and torque. Thank you so much!
And I forgot what I wanted to add in the first place!
One of the most extreme examples of a high RPM low torque engine would be the rotary. To make up for this, they have gears that are optimal for extreme RPM use.
Gearing makes a massive difference for effective DPS!
reminds me of a guy who made a video about cooking a chicken by slaping it 😂
@@damiansmith5294or Ducati motorcycles, with desmodromic valves, revving to absolutely insane rpms, but making pretty blah torque, pure attack speed stacking strategy
@@LelekKozodoj69that was a great experiment, dumb as it was, it was awesome
@@LelekKozodoj69haha Rpg style
you got a baby sleeping in that room ?
The transmission is absolutly relevant for this comparison. When the transmission is designed correctly, horsepower always wins. In the end you can achive any amount of torque, when the wheel speed is low. It doesn't matter at all, which motor I have in a truck or in a formula one car, as long as horsepower and weight is the same and the transmission is designed for the correct purpose.
But you have to be able to move the vehicle, a heavier vehicle requires more torque to move
@@shadowopsairman1583 Thats what a transmission does. You simply trade rpm for torque or torque for rpm. Power (hp) always stays the same (ok, almost. apart from the efficiency)
I feel like that fact that this "pathetic, useless, high-horsepower engine" is basically the same engine as the legendary 2004 F1 3 litre V10s should end the discussion 😂 no one is calling them slow
Summary:
- if you have less than 4 gears and like to pull houses: prefer torque
- if you have a gearbox from this century: prefer HP
Yeah, modern transmissions are incredible. It seems like every performance car has at least 7 speeds now.
Refreshing to hear someone talk about this who actually understands that power and torque are not independent of each other, but in fact fundamental to each other.
So many people just don’t understand it, and also don’t grasp the fact that a peak number is only telling a fraction of the story.
Good work.
This video is rubbish and only touches on reality
While true, you can gear to maximize the torque at the wheels. You can't gear in more power. Edited because I stated it goofy the first time.
@@MastaSquidge you gear around peak HP for maximum acceleration
@@1fast72nova yeah that's what I meant. Phrased it wrong. You can gear however you need to to get whatever torque you need from the power available.
@@MastaSquidgeExactly. Torque you can multiply however you want, like Archimedes (supposedly) said give me a firm place to stand and a lever and I can move the Earth. A hamster running on a wheel can move a truck if you give it enough torque multiplication.
Power is the limiting factor, your engine can only make so much of it. This is pretty basic Physics...but most people don't know basic Physics.
This is absolutely fascinating and a wonderful explanation. Thank you!!. Just amazing how you always explains everything so clearly. Thank you!.
You might think it's clear until someone proves you wrong, but when we get back here, where you trust something easy to understand and think you got it...then what ever bruh, you won't got it 😅
Your delivery is so relaxing
I think a pretty good way of tackling the subject would be comparing two engines that make the same horsepower but at different RPMs (for example 700 HP @8000 RPM vs @2000 RPM); naturally the transmission ratio should be varied accordingly. Nice content as always :)
if only there was an engine that made 700hp @2000 rpm...
@@normalkid488Can get something like a 15L diesel to 700hp @ 2000rpm pretty easy.
In this example, both vehicles has same weight, aerodynamics and if gears similar to reality, the high RPM wins because of gearing.
If we think unrealistic or in real life we had unlimited money, putting the RPM's about max HP for low RPM car with CVT or lightning fast DCT transmission, the low RPM same HP wins because the engine produces same hp much faster than high RPM engine. High RPM engine takes a time to reach high RPM. Also we need heavy weight both of cars or we need unrealistic traction wheel for minimum spining.
@@normalkid488 some late WW2 aircraft engines exceeded 3000 hp @~2000rpm
YES!! I was thinking the same while watching. 👊😎
Thanks man.. I've been a car guy forever, but never really properly understood the difference until now. Appreciate you making this 🤌🏼
Good explanation. Thx for such an effort you've put into this.
Subscribed
One of the best ways to understand hp/torque is by comparing it to riding a bicycle with gears.
When you try to accelerate the fastest possible from a standstill in the highest gear you will accelerate very slow because the amount of revolutions per time (=rpm) of the bicycle's pedals/axle is very low, despite you are applying maximum force, thus maximum torque, with your legs.
When you try the same in a very low gear you will accelerate much quicker because the rpm of your bike is much higher, while applying less force on your pedals => less torque on the axle
There is an analogy between your legs powering your bycicle's pedals > axle/chain > wheel and combustion powering your car's pistons > crankshaft > transmission > wheels
However, if a seasoned rider with stronger legs (i.e. more torque) gets on this bicycle, they can out accelerate you in top gear.
So, if we put a body builder on the bike, he can launch hard in top gear. However, he will reach a point where he cannot move the pedals very quickly and will max out his top speed. Conversely, we can put an Olympic rider on the bike. He will not launch as hard, but in a few moments will be going faster and leave the body builder behind.
That's just gearing. The power going in is the same.
@@horatiohuffnagel7978wrong, cyclist has a power curve that peaks at a certain rpm
@horatiohuffnagel7978 human muscle's force peaks at static contraction thus at 0 rpm. As rpm increases the force (torque) you will be able to put down will decline gradually, but your power will keep increasing until the point where rpm x force (torque) is maximal. At this point your leg muscle's won't have enough time to deliver enough force to make more power despite a higher rpm. This depends on your training level, amount of type 2 fibres, etc.
Same applies to ICE engines, except your torque is determined by the Volumetric efficiency rpm range of the cylinders. It usually peaks a bit further up the rpm range instead of in the beginning as with riding a bicycle.
good
learned this bike commuting
if running late and have to stop at red lights or stop signs
shift up before stopping to start in a low gear and then shift shift shift
Take real life example of BMW E39: 528i 193hp, but only 280Nm, 530d also 193hp and 410Nm and 540i with 286hp and 440Nm. Performance of 528i and 530d with same power is very similar [530d is little slower due to bigger mass], and 540i is a lot faster than 530d despite having comparable torque figure. That's it.
Assuming perfect grip perfect gearshifts and same weight, drag etc. Then your acceleration will be your average horsepower, or the area under your hp graph in the RPM range you use between shifts.
People bragging about them "only chip 280hp" 530d "torque monster" will state its outrunning m5 XD
I mean yeah the torqe figure of 530d and 540i are comparable but torque curves for max performance are obviously in favor for 540i resulting in power band that gives arround 1.5 more of the overall WHEEEL TORQUE that is compatible wiht 286/193HP equation.
And yeah properly tuned 280hp 530d may exceed even the m5 torque figure but it still won't make it faster in sprint scenario due to torque curve combined with gearing resulting in better peak power of 400hp and also better WHP, WTQ in favour of m5. 530d may be still more efficient though. For each their own ofc but i hate when they make up stories.
You’ve explained something that I have been wondering in a long time in just 14 minutes perfectly for newbies, kudos to you sir!
yhm but than you setup drag race between brough superior ss100 75 nm/45 hp vs bsa goldstar 650 55 nm /45 hp vs honda cb 500 pc26 47 nm/57 hp vs kawasaki zx4 rr 40 nm/75 hp let assume if something here have not perfect gearing in regard to its peak power width than we give this bike this perfect gearing for 1/4 mille also we compensate diffrenc in weight be additional weight on lighter bike and that zx4 rr we take off fairing for also make its drag worse the same as other 3 bike here naked 👌🏻 and what happen ? 😁👌🏻👉🏻 ss100 and goldstar cross finish line basically in the same time around 14,2 sec on1/4 mille honda cb 500 cross finish line in 13,2 sec with around 40-45 metres advantage and zx4 r without fairing cross finish line in 12,2 sec with 80-90 metres advantage against ss100 and gold star 650 and 40-50 metres advantage against cb 500 👌🏻😎 so yea wait 🤔 bike with bigest /highest crank engine torque cross finish line last and bike with lowest smalleelst crank ngine torque first? 🥴 welll YEP egzacly 👌🏻😎 the placement was beacuse of power diffrencesss not beacuse of torque diffrencesss and hess video is well dont be lie 👉🏻just 💩 🤷🏻♂️☕️
I love your videos iv learned a lot keep up the good work 👍
Horsepower is *always* what determines how fast a car can go or accelerate when talking about top performance.
Torque is important only because together with the engine rpms, generates horsepower. The more torque we have, the more horsepower we get from a specific rpms range.
In this case, the car with much higher torque, generates more power earlier in the rpms range. But since this is a 'who's faster' kind of question, the one with higher peak power, will always be faster.
"the one with higher peak power, will always be faster"
It's not this simple. A higher average power that the car goes through as shifting gears in this race.
A Mazda rotary engine might have a slightly higher peak power than any of his rivals, but slightly weaker normal engines have significantly higher torque, therefore their average hp output is higher.
The horsepower only only represents its peak. In case you reach your peak hp at 10000rpm but dont have the torque to accelerate with low rpm, your acceleration is not gonna be amazing
@@Samuel-em3nc True. That’s why we rev up the engine for good acceleration, either by using the clutch from a stand or by shifting a couple of gears down.
Transmission is what save us from very weak torque at very low engine speeds.
Electric engines don’t need this because they easily generate power from their high torque.
@@mgoogyi wrong conclusion.
that would mean that the "weaker normal engine" would have a more optimized transmission.
If the transmission is equally optimized over the whole range and both cars weigh the same and have the same drag, the Mazda wins.
@@svr5423 If you have enough gears to be in the optimal power band all the time then the mazda has a chance. If not then the normal engine has a bigger useful powerband area and it should win.
2007 RX-8: You have to have your rev between 7500 and 9000 rpm in all gears to be between 225 and 250 hp.
If you have a car with 230-240 HP on a range of 2000 RPM you beat the RX-8 because your average HP will be higher.
I am just talking about the size of the area under the power curve what you are actually using when shifting gears. The bigger area the higher average acceleration.
Amazing video. I already knew this but I've never seen it illustrated in such a straightforward manner and really enjoyed it as always. The punching analogy is just genius. Would love to see a video on tires and grip, ie bigger tires, stretch vs bulge, lower profile with more unsprung weight vs smaller wheels with a higher tire profile. I must confess I feel like I know frighteningly little about which of the aforementioned factors/choices are best for performance for a car enthusiast.
There are a lot of car guys who never understood the relationship between torque and HP. I'm showing them this channel 😊
I second this tire idea! Knowing more about the impacts of tire pressure in various motorsports applications would also be fascinating (i.e. drag racing, rock crawling, rally, road racing, etc.)
Great video! I haven't ever seen your channel before this video was recommended to me, but this was something I really struggled to understand growing up. I wish I had a video like this to learn from 10 years ago 😂 I really liked the analogy with the punches/damage done too. Thats a great way to explain it to someone who has a hard time understanding the difference.
I think that's what are the best analogies I have ever heard when describing torque versus horsepower.
Like the video but what's missing is comparison when both vehicles would each be geared for optimal performance. The HP one would win much clearer.
That would be an invalid engineering comparison because the cars were identical including the gearing that's the whole point. His definition presentation was about defining torque and HP you missed the boat completely, it wasn't about gearing on either or using better tyres etc. He explained it fully.
@@zorbakaput8537well no, the question is "which one of the two is more important in a drag race/for performance", answer being "HP, when geared properly".
@@zorbakaput8537 Not really becuse that's exactly how you engineer every car in actual reality...
@@zorbakaput8537no, because only a complete simpleton would run those two engines with the same transmissions and final drive ratios.
right he says it depends but for a race hp is the more important figure since you can change the gear ratios
Over thousands of videos of simar subjects over the years... this is the perfect and most definitive explanation of what torque and horsepower really mean. You sir are brilliant, keep at it! ❤
Not really.
@@SlyNine I think it does a far better job than any other video I've seen on this subject.
Thank you for the informative video! Your voice is like a smooth drive 💯
But why is he whispering
Thinking the same 😂😂
Alot of homosexuals do...
Maybe he’s recently had a baby and it’s sleeping in the next room, who knows? Also who cares? The information still means the same thing regardless of how loud or quiet it is…
😂😂😂😂😂😂
You need better speakers
Nice explanation. What I like to use as an analogy is loading bricks into a truck. Torque is how many bricks you can lift at once, rpm is how many times per minute you can place bricks into truck. And horsepower is how fast you can load the truck as in bricks per minute. You either load slowly with big stacks or ninja it brick by brick or both for best results :D
I like the punching analogy because you're using pistons, which move linearly like a punch, and you get something akin to a punch acting on the connecting rod when combustion occurs in the cylinder and pushes the piston down. It's not exactly right because you've got the mechanical transfer from that linear motion into rotational motion through the crankshaft, but it is a more useful analogy than ones I've heard in the past. With larger numbers of cylinders, you can get more punches in each revolution and therefore produce the same amount of power at a lower RPM than an engine with fewer cylinders. It's not just about displacement. I'm kind of rambling now so I'll stop, but thanks for the video.
The analogy of a bicycle and it's gears is helpful too. My teacher used to explain it like that.
Punches are perfect analogy especially in boxer engines 😂
Rotating high weight mass applies more torque than a lighter weight. But force applied to that Rotating mass can be demishiesed. A Lighter Rotating mass with the same force applied will increase in RPM and torque but can handle higher forces if applied. So engine building is a catch 22 situation 😂
Getting the right combination of force vs mass 💪 is actually where's its at, power to weight ratios...😂
Have you done a video on power to weight ratio? I apologize if you have. I'm new to your channel. Which I have to say, is my new favorite subscription. They are so well put together, and the information you provide is gold. Thank you for taking your time to make them.
Definitely helped me clear the confusion around this subject, thanks
I love the idea of using simulations to demonstrate these problems ! Also the takeaway that power and torque are connected is greatly conveyed.
There is a couple issues with the simulation I'd like to point out, and comments I'd like to add for other nerdy viewers:
-> at 6:20, power curve of the torque biased engine shows peak power of 𝟲𝟰𝟬𝗵𝗽 𝗮𝘁 𝟰𝟬𝟬𝟬𝗿𝗽𝗺, due to 500hp@5000rpm and 1000lb-ft@2500rpm being impossible to match
-> in this simulation, the driver let the wheels slip most the times skewing the results and, as you pointed out, demonstrating the importance of tire traction
So based on the power-torque curves shown, the engines compared are:
-Torque biased: 640hp@4000rpm, power band 3000-5000rpm
-Power biased: 1000hp@10500rpm, power band 9000-13500rpm
The same gear ratios that were used on both engines for simplicity heavily penalized the power biased engine by not allowing it in it's higher revving power band. The best example of this is motorcycles: they have high power @ high rpm with low torque, but use higher final drive ratios to allow them to use their higher rpm power bands.
One thing that can matter is power band width, by reducing the number of gear shifts necessary to remain in the power band, however even this can be mitigated by using tighter gears and a quick shifting transmission.
Mathematically speaking, power is how much kinetic energy you're adding in the vehicle per second through the tires. Kinetic energy being speed and speed per second being acceleration, 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗲𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻.
My way of explaining power-torque is:
𝗪𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗮 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻, 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗶𝘀 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴.
𝗧𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗹𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗲𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴𝗹𝗲𝘀𝘀, 𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗶𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗶𝘀 𝘀𝗲𝘁 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗱𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝘁𝘄𝗼 𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲𝘀 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗱𝗶𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗱𝗲𝗹𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗲𝗹𝘀 𝗮𝘁 𝗽𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿, 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗲𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻.
If the wheels don't slip (and that's the driver's fault not the engine's), and the 2 cars have appropriately set transmission, the one with more power will win most/all the time.
P.S:
Why do trucks and pickups use high torque engines ? Why cars have much higher torque than motorcycles for the same HP ? Isn't it because weight requires torque ? 𝗡𝗼.
It's because 𝗴𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆, 𝗮𝘁 𝗲𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗥𝗣𝗠/𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗳𝗲𝘀𝗽𝗮𝗻 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲.
Motorcycles accept a shorter engine life because they need to be very light, and on the other hand trucks need long lasting engines and aren't as much penalized by weight, so they opt for slow revving diesel engine, witch inevitably results in high torque and a heavy engine
Also, with more torque at lower rpm's, you reach your peak torque/power sooner, with less revs. That's make a stop'n'go easier and put less stress on the clutch/torque converter. Hence the differences from a truck diesel engine and a sports bike. Then the gear ratios adjust the usability.
Agree with everything. This video was almost perfect, but he didn't set up the transmissions properly for each car, and it just so happened the transmission picked suited the car with more torque. The conclusion that the torque-biased car wins when towing 6000lb is going to give a lot of people the wrong impression.
@@brunocorrea6010gearing would fix all of that. Gearboxes can act as a torque multiplier. You want double the torque, double the ratio.
The reason is efficiency.
@@SlyNine He's right about that tho, low rpm torque avoids having to either put excessive strain on the clutch, or to have an absurdly low first gear ratio. I omitted it in my inital comment since i didn't know how to put it simply
@@brunocorrea6010With less revs yes, sooner no. If your engine is twice as big, makes twice as much torque, makes the same power but only revs half as high, it will increase in RPM under acceleration with half the speed. The engine that revs twice as high and has double the gear ratio revs up 200rpm for every 100rpm your engine does.
People think engines with more torque result in more in gear acceleration from low RPM, but this is actually not the case if the two engines torque curves are similar shapes (regardless of the absolute figures). There's lots of examples of revvier engines with less torque that result in better in gear acceleration than larger torquier engines with similar power moving similar vehicles, the revier engine doesn't just rev higher, it revs faster.
Have been watching some of your videos, and this is Gold! I can understand and relate to almost everything you've said because im also a martial arts enthusiast and love to learn sports science bits by bits anytime i can. You really have thorough comprehesion about this subject, keep up the GREAT work!! 👍👍👍
This one really got me, subscribed. 👌
Love your channel man. Good video
Wow, this video is just simply amazing, thanks for your work 😀
This is such a good video and you are an amazing teacher. I have watched a few of your videos and it is easy to see why you are getting a million subscribers. I'm happy for you and cheering for your continued success. Thanks for the content.
Power is what matters. Energy per unit of time. Exactly what you need. With a good transmission with many gears, that allows the engine to be at peak power for as long as possible, power will win.
CVT superiority 😤✊
My thought is always the following: Since HP is a unit of power, it denotes the amount if energy, transfered within any given time. And in the end that energy is tranferred to the car in the form of kinetic energy. Thus, if you engine has higher hp, it can feed more energy, into the car in the same time resulting in higher acceleration.
For example an engine with 10.000 lbs-ft if torque at 1 rpm will not nearly have as high power as an engine with 300 lbs-ft at 2.000 rpm. It will be unstoppable for sure, but if you anted really slow, unstoppale movement you could also gear the 2.000 rpm example to 1 rpm and have effective torque of 600.000 lbs-ft
Yea this is the easiest way to understand it. I don’t know why more people don’t use this.
It’s just very basic physics that we all learned at school.
You are correct! As a physicist I can confirm you that this is actually the way you have to treat the whole thing. That is what actually happens.
Addition:
Sadly, in the real world you would have so called dissipative power. This is mainly caused by friction from air resistance and tyre rolling resistance. The car accelerates until the dissipative power equals the engine power as in this case no "extra power" is put out by the engine that could further increase kinetic energy and it's the point where the "top speed" of a car occurs.
@MicroageHD of course my example also supposes that you can always keep the engine at it's optimal rpm without drivetrain inefficiency. And I believe that may be where the real world applications if high torque engines come in
i like the video and how u explain things, its educational and entertaining. good job!
You just got a new sub. Love the way you explain things. Understand the high horsepower low torque very well. Raced Mazdas w/rotary engines. Bridge ported 3"SS exhaust. Damn thing rev'ed 13,000rpm sounded like a motorbike. Poor torque. Early 70's no local dynos no idea of numbers.
The car that produces the highest Ave HP over the course of the race wins.
HP at lower speed gives you more acceleration so the claim not necessarily true.
It's more like the highest average speed over the course. 10,000 HP doesn't matter if the car only runs 10 km/h 😂
Depends on the quality of the drive train build and driver.
Correct. By definition.
@@3d9e that's the dumbest thing ever. Speed is the result of the car's performance. If both of these cars have ideal gearing, the high hp car will make more average hp, therefore higher average speed and win.
That's why cars have a transmission. Torque at the wheels is what counts and not between motor and transmission. It's always good to know at euych RPM the motor has the highest output and where it's most efficient.
Imagine airplanes, boats or generators. These often do not have a transmission or even a fixed gear ratio. So they need to be tuned that their max torque occurs in the optimum RPM.
Thank you so much for this, its a question that i`ve always wondered about ever since i became a car guy. My little brain needs multiple viewings to fully understand, even though you`ve done your best to simplify things. Great video!
Thanks for the incredible video. This is quite interesting!
I've seen many explanations of torque and hp; I now finally truly understand it. Great explanation.
The punches explanation is a bit lame IMO, why, torque number actually gets nothing done, it does not tell you the rate at which work is being done. At 12:40 Torque is NOT about a single rotation, its simply the twisting (torque) force applied and tells nothing about how quickly work is being done.
You actually truly trust something you liked, but don't understand the torque and horsepower for sure 😅
Agreed!
@@constantinevu48 this is the worst explanation I ever saw - why even bother making a youtube video on a topic you dont understand?
Another good one-you are in your element as you explain stuff. ☺
love your voice, it's so relaxing. great insightful video
Unintentional asmr
Only downside is that I got to turn up the volume by a lot to understand him when I'm on the go
Yes I love it
What's wrong with you, it drives me insane
It makes me uncomfortable as hell
THE BEST EXPLANATION I HAVE EVER HEARD!
Congratulations on how good you are at making topics easily understandable :)
Holy crap! It may be, but for some of us it is just common knowledge. I mean, the basic concept is. So, one of these engines is impossible? Yeah, I kinda figured that. That being the case, do I believe all of what is being explained here? Does he go on to explain gear ratios on an impossible car?
@@MortonLuvz2drummate, only 1% of car enthusiast actually know how engines work. This video is for them.
Don’t be a pushover just because you have a lot of knowledge.
Actually, I didn’t find it as simple as it could be to explain torque and power.
Power is always what matters. Power determines the work we can achieve. Be it how fast we can go, how hard we can accelerate or how much cargo we can transport. It’s always about power.
Torque determines how many rpm’s are needed to get whatever power the engine produces.
An high torque engine produces power with less rpm’s than a low torque one.
I LOVED the torque/rpm/hp explanation using punches. Easily the best yet easiest to understand explanation I've seen so far.
Nice content and good explanations as usual. Would have been even better had you taken the time to optimize gearing such that each motor could fully utilize its power. With such optimization, more power should always win and this is why race teams put so much effort into “getting power to the ground”. Thanks 😊
I feel so educated and so relaxed at the same time!
What a magnificently clear and easy to understand concept through your explanation, thanks for the vid, good sir!
The only easy stuff was to make you think you understand it, lol 😅
This is a GREATLY underestimating how much faster the 1000 horsepower car would be in the real world. With appropriate gearing, I ran some simulations and that 1000 horsepower car should run a 7 flat quarter mile, while the 1000 ft/lbs torque engine would run a 9 second quarter mile.
The difference in speed between those numbers is HUGE.
If you put both engines in a more normal 3000 lb car, the difference becomes 10.5 vs 8.5.
If you think about it it's basically rotary vs diesel cars.
How about 600hp 800tq vs 800hp vs 600tq
@@lamp7746 In a real world comparison the car with 33% more horsepower is going to win by a lot.
Normal 3000 lb car? What planet are you from? a 2004 Jaguar XJR is like 3950 lbs and an E63 AMG of the same year is like 4400 lbs. Cars only get HEAVIER as the years go by. My Tesla Model 3 Performance is 4000 lbs and its small. Some little weenie mobile or some full on race car with no comforts might be 3000 but a decent car is 4000 +. Torque is better from 0-80 or so and 0-80 is all that matters unless you live in Germany or the Isle of Mann.
@Cruor34 race cars are commonly 3000 lbs. It's just a number I picked that is a more real world comparison. Lay off the coffee abs pay attention more, nearly everything you said was wrong.
Torque doesn't matter, horsepower and gearing do.
Love your content.❤
Great Video. I finally understand. Thank you!
Mate, I so love your dry and very factual way of explaining.
I'm a lifelong petrolhead and can appreciate thourough research and knowledge of ICE's so much. 👌🏻
Keep it up and warm greetz from The Netherlands.
Medehollander🤝
@@user-ri9bf6ft4f 😘🇳🇱
The punching analogy is amazing. I never really understood horsepower before this video.
power is usually easier to understand than torque.
rotational mechanics are a bit complicated.
You still don't but you liked it, lol 😅😂
Very well and easily understood explanation of the concepts….. great job👍🏻😎
I like your analogy much better than the “how fast you take the wall with you” I always thought that one made no sense because it seems to imply the weight of the vehicle or something
I understand the relationship between HP and torque but have always struggled to explain it in a way that people understand because when you factor in time it really confuses people. Kind of similar to velocity vs. acceleration. I just found you and subscribed. I'm going to look for a video explaining how trap speed and vehicle weight (we'll ignore drag) is simply a result of horsepower regardless of elapsed time. If you don't have one, I think that would be a great one to break down and I look forward to how you do it. Also, the slightly more complex set of factors that go into the elapsed time, specifically the initial launch and the general rule of thumb that every tenth of a second you take off your 60' results in two tenths off your 1/4 mile time.
You said you made a software to predict drag race outcomes right? What was the standard deviation?
@@leandredebrito2991 Standard deviation of what exactly? All the students' predicted to actual? I know I was a couple tenths off and less than 1 mph off, if I recall, everyone was pretty close. We should have all been using the same equations in the same way if doing it correctly. I'm scratching my head right now wondering if my old computer in my closet has the spreadsheet on it lol.
@@nathanaelcole8466 Yeah, that's what I meant. I think it's super cool you got it that accurate.
hp is amount of work.
torque is just an indication of what kind of work is possibly maybe being done but not how much
I think saying time is confusing, if you say frequency or frequency in time, it's easier to understand
How you say 'torque' is very relaxing
I learned so many thanks man
bro finally iv been into cars and engines for a few years and gave up on the difference between torque and horses but i get it now thanks 🙃
Wow,
HP vs Torque has always confused me and you made it seem almost childishly easy to understand. Many thanks to you, good sir! I am excited to see what else I can learn. Keep making the good videos!
Just remember, gear box is a torque multiplier. Half the torque at double the engine RPM gives you the same power. The same torque at the wheels.
Just amazing how you always explains everything so clearly. Thank you!
Thanks so much! I saw and read a lot of explanations what is difference between hp and torque. Now i got it!
You don't. This video and his others on topic are faulty
Great explanation and analogy.🎉
By far the most clearly explained difference between the two I've seen. Thank you.
Just want to add that peak numbers are less important than 'area under the curve'. For a 7000 rpm limit vehicle in a drag race, your rpm will sweep from ~4000-7000 as you climb the gears. So the torque values at each of these rpm is the force that is delivered by the engine.
seems to be why you see a lot of 4cyl cars with stated high HP numbers lose a lot of drag races, their power band sucks.
Usually traction is the issue in high hp 4cyl fwd.
Also the fact that a turbo'd K-Series civic in street race trim usually weighs around or just under 2000lbs. So not alot of weight to help traction
I've seen a dodge neon srt walk the dog on a couple different 1000cc bikes, from a 40mph roll. From a dig, they usually get him bye about 2 cars. His 60' is like 1.80's.
@@prestongodsey3567 traction is an issue for everyone in no prep racing. Im just saying that 4cyl cars with stated high HP numbers dont seem to perform as well as V8 with high HP or even 6cyl.
Thank you - great explanation
Thank u for that explanation. I get into a similar analogies trying to explain the difference between voltage and amperes & watts in electrical engineering
The way I've always thought of it is essentially that horsepower and the width of the power band matters most, as long as you have a transmission geared appropriately to take advantage of that power band at most speeds. Torque alone generally only matters if you're towing or hauling a heavy load at low speed and your transmission isn't capable of using your maximum horsepower at that speed.
hp only good when starting ftom standing still, if it was a race for distance torque takes it, like for 1/4 miles HP.
@@elchido3517one of the stupidest things I ever heard
@@elchido3517 I believe that you misunderstood
@elchido3517 brother you got it completely opposite
torque doesn't matter much in the end.
It's important for the people designing the gearbox.
it also lets you calculate your power curve, which is important if you have a manually shifted car, so you know which gear to use in which situation.
Which is more, 100watt or 100amps/volts? Good explanation as always. Gave me a little deeper understanding.
pls keep creating these type of videos
I like that damage analogy.
In gaming terms ;
HP = is DPS
Torque = hit damage
Rpm = attack speed
It would have been interesting to see what band of the power and torque curves are used in direct drive, vs a 4 gear vs 6 gear vs a cvt
Given proper gearing the higher HP engine will always be faster, even when you increase weight. The reason semi trucks use the engines they do is not because they "need a lot of torque to move the weight." In fact a 500hp 4 cylinder turbo could pull an 80,000 lb trailer no problem if it was geared right. It's because of many other good reasons that I will attempt to list. 1) Large turbo diesel engines are substantially more fuel efficient for their power output. 2) A large turbo diesel engine can actually sustain its max power output continuously rather than for quick bursts, from a cooling and durability perspective. This also translates into overall longevity. 500,000 or even 1 million miles are possible, working all day everyday. That 500 hp turbo 4 will need a rebuild at 80,000 miles doing the same amount of work. Maybe sooner. 3) In the engine RPM operating range, a large turbo diesel engine has a flatter HP curve meaning within that range, it will make more average HP. Of course, a theoretical 100% efficient and 100% durable CVT would solve this problem for our fictional 500 hp turbo 4 but that doesn't exist. So in the real world with gearing, the 500 hp turbo 4 is going to perform worse because it won't be operating at an RPM where it makes 500 hp as often. 4) Similar to #3 but more specifically for launch conditions, the large turbo diesel is making FAR closer to its max HP at RPMs where you would normally expect to get the weight moving. In the 500 hp turbo 4 example, you'd need to slip the clutch at like 5000 rpm just to get the load moving (or we'd switch back to a fictional transmission where this would no longer be a disadvantage).
Really, the torque that large turbo diesels make is just a byproduct of everything else. You want 500 hp @ 2200 rpm? Well that is going to require 4 figure torque. It's just the way the math works out.
@7.25 i just want to now why did you change the rpm of the power engine from 5000 rpm to 10504 rpm or am i missing something here???????
I had the same logic with punches metaphore before watching the vid, meaning that hp is resulting damage(speed) so more hp equals more speed, and speed wins the race, so i thought hp would win. In fact it did in most realistic scenario with gearbox. Thanks for explanation!
Horsepower is intrinsic to an engine. Torque can be (almost) indefinitely multiplied with gears. This information (along with available traction) can be used to select the optimum gear ratios and shift points to achieve the best quarter mile time.
Exactly. All that really matters is power output. Torque can be fixed with gearing or tire size.
No, engine torque is also intrinsic and determined by how much air is combusted in one engine cycle (either due to displacement and/or compression). Wheel torque and engine torque are not the same.
@@kalasmournrex1470 well good thing no one cares about engine torque, what matters is wheel torque which can be multiplied by gearing. Wheel horsepower cannot be changed by gearing.
Therefore horsepower is the critical attribute
@@kalasmournrex1470 - Wheel torque can be multiplied. Wheel horsepower can't. I hope that helps you out.
@@nhibbs3 I definitely care about engine torque. Tow a big trailer or drive a heavy vehicle and you can't get away with a low torque high horsepower engine.
Also by changing torque at the wheel you also affect horsepower. The two are mathematically related.
The engine that is able to output more HP during acceleration is always fastest. It is just that is not always the engine that has the highest max power output, because power depends on RPM and the gearbox comes into play.
Fastest at acceleration, yes, top speed not so much. At higher speeds with that much gear box draw to keep everything spinning at a higher speed would pull power from the motor. a high hp car, on the other hand, with the a favorable custom gearbox, would be faster at higher speeds.
Was the 10.504 rpm at the 7:25 intended?
Amazing way of contrasting a lot of different technical neuonces
You should have given the HP-Engine double the gear ratio as it has double the RPM for peak power imho. But other than that, well made video! :)
Yup engineering explained made a torque vs HP breakdown and spoke about this
They both need a CVT for a fair comparison.
@@SuperPhunThyme9 imho, that is still dependant on the ratio of the cvt. There isn't only one unanimous ratio for all cvt
@@792bnzPlease explain how this "ratio" of a CVT works.
@@Carl_Jr it's a final drive gear ratio like any other car. The only difference is there are no gears like a regular trans. As an example 3:1 is longer ratio and 4:1 is shorter
Excellent. I've had this argument many times with people who don't understand that torque is included within horsepower, and that a torque figure on its own tells us nothing about engine performance whereas horsepower tells us quite a lot.
Most informative RUclips channel
The number of car guys i have heard misspeaking about this subject is mindblowing. Its incredibly simple really. HP is total power output and torque is a piece of the equation to make total power. Torque by itself is never enough information to determin how fast a certain vehicle can go(or accelerate) but HP IS enough information to determin how fast a vehicle can go(or accelerate). If you know what rpm this HP is generated at, you sinply need to choose an appropriate gear ratio to utilize that power effectively. HP is the measurement of all things "go fast" while torque is but a small specifc conponant of that total HP
If the gearing was good, the power biased would have destroyed it
You were correct at the start of the video. With all the equations I now feel like I have been punched with a boxing glove.
Interesting though, as I had considered torque to be more important, possibly, than horsepower. However, now I can see that because the two are linked, the horsepower number gives a better overall picture of performance. As per the software, you can always gear down for increased torque for things like trucks and earth moving equipment.
You are actually closer to the main point ☝️
Something to consider as well related to not being able to have high Hp without high torque is VVT engines. There are a few engines I know of that have torque will peak around 275ft-lb but HP will peak around 325. Granted the engine is tuned to have these values.
spot the honda guy . i make 500nm at idle and bro saying 275 at peak haha
You have a soft and soothing voice
Listening delight
I think this is a very misleading explanation. In the same application those two engines would have completely different transmissions. The high horsepower would have for example twice as large final drive to facilitate large rev range. And that would smoke the high torque engine everywhere (as long there is a traction and assuming torque curves have reasonable shapes)
I agree mostly. The math wouldn't even work for electric cars because the size of the wheels would be a new big factor then wind resistance... Etc.
Excellent video! I'm going to show this to my kids because you break this down to where it's very easily understood. Thank you for the work you've done in this video!
Don't do that. Time to stop spreading the torque infection in people's brains. Show them a book of classical mechanics.
Power is everything, torque means almost nothing. You can get as much torque, or as much rpm, at wheels as you want, with the right gear ratio. But you can't get both things at the same time. The product of force and speed is (almost) constant from the engine to the wheel, and it is the power.
I had no idea it was this simple all along, i wish someone explained this to me earlier