Mass Effect 3: The Illusive Man Confrontation (Paragon)
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- The last conversation with the Illusive Man on the Citadel; paragon choices.
To unlock all of these dialogue checks, make sure you've taken paragon/renegade options every time you've encountered the Illusive Man: on Mars, Thessia, and the Cerberus base.
Imported save; RPG mode.
I just realized, this is the first time shepherd met the illusive man face to face.
nope this isn't even real
@@MistahJay7 Saddly none of this is real, the whole scene when Shepard survives the Reaper laser shooting and so on are just an illusion, too bad Bioware never fixed their ending the way they were supposed to be.
@@Akko1 yeah the illusive man was suppose to husk out like Saren did. But it never made it into the game. Also according to the bioware concept art, the illusive man was suppose to go through two more stages of visual indoctrination. A quarter of the final game was cut out from the point we captured the Cerberus station. The illusive man looked normal on the station then bam he doesn't on the citadel. This was actually only half of what his visual changers were suppose to be.
@@geronimo5537 I will never understand why not just finish the series giving us a proper DLC :(
@@Akko1 it is because bioware kicked half of the original team off the project and then kicked casey hudson off the project. which gave us the horrid andromeda. after just watching the old angry joe indoctrinate video, I realize it makes perfect since that mass effect 3 was not the end. It was simply shepard overcoming his indoctrination. Which would of left room for a mass effect 4 against the reapers and the impending doom of the galaxy that was supposed to be the original plot. lets hope now that casey hudson is back on the dev team for mass effect that we will get a mass effect 4 and true ending.
ruclips.net/video/ZZOyeFvnhiI/видео.html
Hats off to Martin Sheen for giving a great performance here.
cripplehawk Charm/Intimidate him at every encounter in me3
To bad the writing is awful. The illusive man is turned into a cliche power hungry puppet controlled by the reapers.
Arim Oh What would you’ve rather seen them do with TIM?
@@Dorne_is_the_GOAT He meddled with powers he couldn’t possibly understand.
@@Dorne_is_the_GOAT "A cliche power hungry puppet controlled by the Reapers." That's pretty much what he is and always was. The only point I'll disagree on is cliche. I think the Illusive Man genuinely believed all along, up until Shepherd forced him to confront that he was indoctrinated, he thought it was best for mankind to control the Reapers and turn them to our benefit. He just didn't tell us that when we were working for him.
Exactly, just like the desperation is his voice when he says: "but I can!" Excellent character
It takes an excellent actor to play an excellent character :)
* Shepard kicks him to make sure he doesn't revive like mecha-Saren *
Imagine if the Illusive man came back to life same as Saren as a final boss fight. 🤣😂
@@hawk66100Right. And Harbinger possesses him like Sovereign did with Saren.
With the last bit of control he had, he regretted what the indoctrination did to his mind by saying "I tried Shepard".
❤❤️🩹💔
😢
always liked that he tried :)
Even though it wasn't under my control, I'll never recover from the fact that it was my bullet that killed Captain Anderson.
kirikakirikakirika it's admiral anderson
Harbinger did most of the job though
Honestly, it didn't bother me. I'd be rolling my eyes if Anderson died a one man army. You know, taking down hundreds of enemies before kicking the bucket? Anderson's not that kind of character. He's cool, but he's not that kind of cool.
@@rebel1717 He lead the resistance back on earth while your Shepard was partying in Citadel.
Eh, technically the illusive man fired the shot since he was controlling your body
Saren: "Welcome to the club, TIM ol' buddy! We've got T-Shirts!"
*shirts read 'I Broke the Mind-Control of the Reapers and all I got was a Self-Inflicted Bullet-Wound to the Head and this Stupid T-Shirt.'*
T-shirts read "We'll bang OK"
I still love that the final boss of the series isnt a gunfight, its dialogue. Perfectly fitting of the franchise.
That Damn mars mission. I selected option "You are deluded !" and i didn't get the final options to force illusive man to commit suicide on the citadel. To anyone else who is on mars mission, just select "You are wasting my time" in order to open paragon renegade responses on mars.
wish id known this, thanks for sharing.
That’s what you get for being a paragon weakling.
Yup. Chose right every other damn time but missed it so got two paragon checks and not the last one.
Played through again just now. In the Tim conversations i have chosen all of the paragon options except one in the last dialogue. I didn't get the paragon option but anderson lives as I shot Tim down before he could do any harm.
In the past I went full paragon and talked him to death, but now I kinda feel more satisfied, as the flow of the conversation went better. Paragon shep should tell people from time to time where their limits are.
Earth...if only you could see it the way I do...it's so...perfect.
Underrated line.
Admiral Hackett summed up The Illusive Man's plan perfectly earlier in the game: He's wrong, dead Reapers are how we win this." That's the only way the Galaxy was ever going to survive.
"Bullshit. We destroy them, or they destroy us."
"Dead reapers is how we win it"
R.I.P to our great leader.
we can rebuild him. we have the technology.
he was cool in ME2
rest in peace my favorite bad guy lol if you can call him bad I meen he not really evil
@@merchant6562 yeah not evil at all he only experimented on humans, brainwashed his own troops, endangered the entire galaxy's existence along with humanity (...) yeah not evil at all /s
@@Solaxe he got indoctrinated
The illusive Man was one of my favourite characters..... i thought he was very interesting and it would of been cool to learn more about his origin story...... he's that mad scientist that try's to do the right thing but knows he's screwed.....
+Landon Tokiwa There's a comic that deals with the Illusive Man's origins, definitely worth the read. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Evolution
I have read the comics! I recommend so..it even says his real name. He was an operative at one point before founding cerberus so he had combat experience and cunning. (I kno this old) but with teh release of legendary I was reminded to respond. His name is Jack Harper. ^^ go further with ut if you are still interested
@@LeoneLaTwerk2 Cerberus also started out as an Alliance black ops organization but then went rogue and cut ties with the Alliance.
He died as Jack Harper I guess that’s got a count for something right?
"NO! I'm in control! No-one tells me what to do!" aaand just like that TIM turns into a teenager.
That is one of the things I hate about mass effect 3. Some of the characters are horribly written and ruined.
@@Dorne_is_the_GOAT just imagine what ME3 could've been if Egotistical Assholes didnt hurry the game out of the door early. Mayb if Bioware were given more time then TIM wouldnt have been the sterotypical moustache twirling villain he was in ME3
Or it’s just the rambles of a control freak the Illusive Man is. People are more childish when everything they have and believe is called into question and taken away, even the thought drives people mad.
I mean, the man lost his fucking mind near the end. I doubt he can even barely form any of his own thoughts anymore.
Jake that’s indoctrination for you.
I like how he claims that he was saving humanity but his men killed all those innocent people on Mars, Eden Prime, and on many other planets.
i mean who cares about peasants anyway
Necessary.
it started out with 'the ends justifies the means',
And so you become willing to pay ever higher price for your goals.
"When we win, this will all be made right." you rationalize.
Except you never get there,
all you've done is digging ever deeper hole where you cannot get out,
and that treasure underneath you're digging for? Not there either, just lies you keep telling to yourself, 'hope' to sustain you.
In the end you're defeated.
Perhaps you're just a step away from final victory...
No. Truth is, you're doomed even from the start.
This kind of tragic failure story is actually quite common even in real life.
Thats what garrus is saying, people will kill 10 million lives just to save 10 billion more.
@@princeofsomnia7664 There is a big difference between making a difficult decision when you are forced into it, and deliberately following a path leading to such situations.
This was...powerful. Amazing, even. To see a man so corrupted by the reapers. The cold, calculating, Illusive Man reduced to this. Damn it Bioware, you made me cry for him.
Can we just appreciate Martin Sheen’s superb acting at 3:31 & 4:52? It’s surreal seeing a character with the ego and confidence of the Illusive Man breaking down like this.
This pretty much summits EA and Bioware in one clip.
Except that EA survived the fricking shot and has a gaping hole that tries to fill with loot-box money.
@@farenhaid13421 I think he means EA are the Reapers. TIM is Bioware and Shepard/Anderson are the fans.
@@RasenKamehamehaX100 truly much more accurate. EA is a machine, it’s sole purpose is to make money for its share holders, the share holders want more money, and if that ruins the company reputation enough to make sales go down? Then they’ll be the first to know, and sell accordingly, making a profit, while having milked all the studios for the most money in the shortest amount of time before selling. True original vision of capitalism requires moral investors, that is much forgotten by share holders (mostly banks) and the world suffers accordingly... Dev studios with passion and vision are forced into the hands of publishers for money to make their project a reality, just to get exploited as a consumable in the end by the same hand who made to grow to begin with. EA is terrible. Can’t imagine how incredibly disgusting all their NDA meetings with dev studio CEOs must be like...
I think the scenario fits better with Saren. Saren (Bioware) realizes his mistake and shoot himself only for the Reapers (EA) to take control of his corpse and turn him into a monster.
Apparently, the Illusive Man was supposed to take on a more monstrous form, but they simplified it into this to make it into a battle of will. After the monster Joker in Arkham Asylum, that is for the best. Dabbling in Reaper tech proved to be his downfall, and had he not, he could have helped change Cerberus for the better. Instead, he was naught but an unwilling puppet.
Martin Sheen wiped the floor with his performance in this scene! What a brilliant actor and voice actor!
Yeesh first Saren then TIM? History tends to repeat itself
And in Javik's cycle, similar thing happened too. They were betrayed by a Prothean faction who insist they could control the Reapers.
Illusive man: A man that is hard to find or capture.
But if you break down the syllables...
It sounds kind of like - ill - use - of - man -
Oh sh*t
*mind blown*
Wouldn't that be elusive man then? Illusive means deceptive, based on illusions. Which might also make him elusive, but they don't mean the same.
It's a sign of indoctination.
The same texture spreads over Shepard if you pick green or blue endings.
how do you get the final paragon option? the one to get the illusive man to kill himself?
I had to play it a second time for the final paragon option. You really cant do anything renegade troughout the trilogy. Especially in Mass Effect 3.
I think if you leave the Collector's Base data to him you can easily continue to mix up Paragon and Renegade options...he will do it alone the same. Because he trusts your judgements more in ME3 if you give him what he wanted in ME2...
Fuck the only renegade I ever did was to kill that assassin of his
7 year old comment, but for new people, you have to do the left option every time you talk to Illusive Man in ME3 and pass those checks
To know he probably had no choice or control over his actions...makes you feel kind of sorry for him. He is one of the best characters in videogame history.
The music during this is so chilling!
5:33 How could you let that happen! So self righteous Letting me die!
Shepard logic :
Convince the Illusive Man not to control the Reapers.
Control the Reapers anyway...
Shepard of the past logic :
Convince Saren not to merge with the Reapers
Merge with the Reapers anyway
That because shep didn't realize that when using the catalyst those options were possible they just thought tim and care were dillusional
Alexis Those were the cheap excuses from both indoctrinated Saren and TIM to accomplish reapers' objectives: access to the citadel and sabotage. In fact, in the prothean cycle, there was a similar disident group (indoctrinated too) with the same excuse, complicating the cohesion of prothean resistance (indirectly favoring reapers' invason). It's a farce from the reaper pattern to convince the species about a supposely natural conflict from their own inside, from society. Controlled disidence, a theater actuation with mindless puppets. Such as it happens in the real world, with leaders acting as puppets of the supranational elite (not necessarily aware of their real intentions; just following money, power, blackmail threats...).
By the way, Shepard's logic is the player's logic. If the options result illogical for you, it's up to your choice to express it through Shepard so the ending doesn't contradict anything built previously. Your fault, not his.
That’s why destroy ending is the canon ending and all other endings suck.
@@mushyroom9569 The control ending may be wonky but the synthesis is a real winner imo.
@@mushyroom9569 the walk away ending is cool if you don’t feel like Shepard has the right to decide like that, since self-determination could be a big theme of your play through.
In the end, I actually felt rather sorry for the Illusive Man. In my view, you could compare him in charcter to Major Zero in the MGS series.
Hats off to Martin Sheen.
Say what you want about Mass Effect, but the way this ended always makes me sad knowing where it all began and it all ends here.
Makes me wonder what he would have been like had he not been indoctrinated
@@gaelofariandel6747 play 2. He isn't indoctrinated there, and cerberus isn't psycho yet. They save you, stop multiple collector invasions. They're supposed to be humanities special ops wing, but they become it's doom when TIM gets indoctrinated soon after me2 when he starts dabbling heavily into reaper tech.
Who would have thought that the Illusive Man would have breathed his last as a war hero.
I mean he’s not wrong. Shepard can control them. He’s a tragic figure
Illusive man thought by having catalyst he couldve control them. But his implants were reaper tech. Such an amateur mistake. I think Catalyst only gave Shepard that chance because he bothered to get crucible. And united all organics and synthetics against reapers. Now he saw that he had to change cycle system
@@tcmugutc01 “He could never have controlled us because we already controlled him.” -Catalyst.
I actually really liked the illusive man as an enemy, and I didn't imagine that the final confrontation with a mastermind like him was going to be a gunfight, but a conversation like this. I was really looking forward to siding TIM. I had this image in my head of all the reapers stopping attacking, then me and TIM sharing a glass of champaign as we began our galactic conquest. There are options throughout all the games to foward humanity, there should have been one here.
You do not need to use paragon options on him every time. So long as you have enough reputation whenever you encounter him to use paragon OR renegade choices, you'll be fine.
From the Final Run to Anderson's Death they really achieved that dark and desperate atmosphere, shame how they transformed Cerberus from a morally grey organization to pure evil. The rest of the last mission was shit though.
If you want to blame someone for the changes to Cerberus, blame the Illusive Man. He's the one who insisted upon having Reaper technology literally hanging in his base. He was probably indoctrinated just by spending so much time around their devices, confident he could turn them to his own purposes. In the end, the Reapers controlled him before he knew it, and Cerberus changed to serve the Reapers' will in turn.
That's the problem, I don't see someone with that knowledge be stupid enough to spend time around reaper tech.
Mikhailovick I mean they should’ve learned considering how it corrupted Benezia and Saren
@@jayl1031 the Illusive man truly didn’t know how in over his head he was.
Reapers have been indoctrinating organic life that has been far more evolved and intelligent than humans have ever been in their time.
Did the illusive man never consider that someone before him has already tried this and yet the reapers are still harvesting?
@@marco4149 Reaper indoctrination can be slow and methodical so it is so gradual that the victim doesn’t even realize or consider the fact they could be indoctrinated.
Let's just say I wouldn't hire shepherd to man the phones at a suicide helpline
Illusive Man: "Hey, Shepard! I am totally going to control the Reapers because I am just awesome like that. Don't you agree?"
Shepard: "Uh, no. You are like, indoctrinated and stupid!"
Illusive Man: "...You are right." *shoots self*
The Illusive Man is one of Martin Sheen's best characterizations, and I say that with no irony or sarcasm. The man's on fire here. He's not phoning it in. He's acting his ass off.
So... If I choose paragon/renegade everytime, I can have both of them 50/50 and still unlock all options?!
DAMN IT! I'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON PARAGON THIS WHOLE TIME!
This, my friends, is why spoilers are worth it. They prevent you from making vital mistakes.
Thankyou for uploading.
I completely agree. They should have not indoctrinated him. Instead, renegades should have had the option of siding with him and controlling the reapers at the end of the game while paragons would side with Hackett against TIM and destroy the reapers. The batarians could have been antagonists in place of Cerberus: the indoctrinated forces of the Leviathan of Dis led by Balak (or a replacement if you killed him).
Bioware did it right, the paragon option is actually controlling the reapers, because destroy them causes every synthetic form of life to die in the process and that is pretty renegade, don't you think?
anyone know the theme name when shepard tries to talk some sense in into the illusive man?
ruclips.net/video/4c_wOavMuOg/видео.html All there is for now
I felt bad for him.
Did not agree with his methods, but he did have the best interests for humanity in mind.
And then he was forced to betray humanity.
how would it be the ending having at your side cerberus and clone shepard with her soldiers
Gotta love Shepard's talk no jutsu
His last words were so damn poignant. He really did try, he gave it his all in an effort to help humanity…but he just didn’t have what it took to get the job done. In the end, that’s all we can do; try. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail, but we only lose if we do nothing at all.
And THAT is the "Epic" ending that Mass Effect 3 Needed! Of all the cut / possible scenes that is one of the best I have ever found!
The fact he killed himself for humanity? x10000000000000000000000000 respect. Hero.
How come when Shepard convinces people to kill themselves it's a Paragon act but when I do it it's a felony?
4:46
I like to think that the part of TIM that is in conflict during this conversation is saying this to the Reapers. Like a part of him has realized The Truth and is trying to regain true control. Then he realizes he can't and kills himself out of defiance.
I enjoyed working for Cerberus and the illusive man in ME2. Unfortunate it came to this.
This was an intense scene in the game. Illusive Man had me genuinely creeped out a bit here.
Good thing C-Sec didn't hire Sheppard as a Negotiator.....
@Ichibushido You had to use paragon/renegade options every time you encountered TIM - Mars, Thessia, and the Cerberus base. I did a few renegade options too, yet I was still able to persuade him.
"Shepherd! I'm still very cross about the firecracker you put in my coffee! Look at my goddamn face!"
"It was a prank, bro! Relax!"
No, this was recorded and done on my first playthrough with an imported save.
OMG, this scene comes full circle with Mass Effect 1, with Saran, and the suicide, and the... URGHGJDBDFKBFDKDF DFK (Dick explodes)
The Illusive Man is one of my favorite video game characters.
It was such a shame what they did to the Illusive Man in me3. He had so much potential of being a unique villain after me2 but they just changed him into a Saren 2.0 just for the sake of having Cerberus as the bad guys
ME3 Illusive Man reminds me of a James Bond villain, hundreds of henchmen, main stronghold, grand evil plans.
I mean, he wasn’t exactly a good guy in 2. He goes out of his way to show you the most sympathetic and good parts of the organization so you’ll do what he wants.
So i guess it doesnt matter, he dies anyways, sadly. Hes a great character with a deep personality.
the only thing that i thought about during this is andrew ryan's lines: " a man chooses, a slave obeys"
I got this on first try. I always seem to get the best endings on first try because I explore e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, and in order to get TIM to shoot himself you have to hit every Para/Ren special dialog, which means hitting that back dialog option in EVERY conversation.
@cannle10 You must've missed a paragon/renegade choice when you spoke to him earlier; probably on Mars.
So what are you trying to say?
Shepperd must go for Paragon every time he meets illusive man throughout the game?
How do you get this scene? I had a full paragon meter with a little bit of renegade, and I did it all but the last one, it was grayed out.
Same here, is this some sort of glitch? I was forced to take a renegade action in the end or I'd die
No, this isn't a glitch. You have to use the paragon/renegade options in the PREVIOUS conversations (on Mars, Thessia and Kronos Station) in order to unlock the dialogue choices. You also need a decently high paragon/renegade score, but the former is more important.
***** I did all that! I still got it greyed out...This is almost as ridiculous as being forced to play the multiplayer or getting the phone app to raise galactic readiness, even after you've gotten every single solitary war asset!
You don't need to do that anymore to get the final Destroy ending...
You might have to only choose paragon/renegade. I don't know. Always worked for me.
Xavior TheLycan you need to ask him in detail on Mars, Thessia, and the Base. Paragon choices.
1:05 somebody’s been playing Red Dead Redemption 2....
He died the same way Saren did. Freeing himself from reaper control.
Exactly and then when we see his normally calm reserve give way to the hysterical realization that for all the good he thought he did, he was ultimately a puppet of the Reapers.
Even though i shot him down in my first playthrough when it was clear he wasnt gonna listen i felt sorry for him when he said he wished i saw the earth as he did it really wasnt all his fault the repaers twisted his mind like saren
he was stupid to trust the reapers
Ironically, if you choose Control, you are choosing TIM's choice, which is Paragon, and Destroy is the Renegade option.
Everyone plays as femshep
Everyone clown
Everyone gay
An amazingly done ending... I loved the entire series.
I actually wanted my char to die because that gave the story a touch of sacrifice, how one man against all odds saved a galaxy. Hey during the game there were probably thousands of moments where shepard should have died and he did not, evading millions of bullets and healing himself up. Anyways I was very surprised with the ending about the intensions of the reapers and why they do it, a very good believable explanation with no simple escapes like "they're just evil and that's that"
Theres a lot of call backs to me1 in this game
Illusive Man R.I.P
@maynpayn well the problem is that the catalyst said what would happen based of your decision, but you never get to see the effects of your decision. For me the bad ending starts with joker/Normandy I was into until then.
Crap, that cut-and-paste came out wrong. I was quoting Muse's song, "Take a Bow." It seemed fitting enough.
Its sad how, despite all the horrible things he did, he was honest, he really did want what was best for humanity. He wasnt power hungry or a megalomaniac. He was a man that thought the ends justified the means. I dont agree with that, but no one deserves to be turned against what they always fought for...
I kind of felt sorry for the illusive man here. As much as he’s a ruthless bastard, he truly did believe he was doing the right thing, and here in his final moments, he realised that he was wrong since the very beginning.
I think the biggest and almost definite support of indoc is TIM line about why he hasn't done the control "I need you to believe." occurs in first intimidate optuon
Terrified what we may find remember that line it's important
Sad knowing that cerberus is part of alliance once and ended up by alliance itself
That's a callback to Saren's suicide.
0:35 - When T.I.M. walks by Shepard and the indoctrination waves hit, they look like farts as he pass. As he nears Anderson, his reaction nails it.
On Shadow Broker's dossier on TIM, it said that he has banged every Galaxy's Top Models WEEKLY! Mother of player!
It's so annoying getting to this point and seeing the options greyed out. Like what the hell did I miss?! And at that point it's way too late to go back and fix it. Fortunately (or unfortunately I guess) it doesn't matter.
Sure. You have to get a paragon/renegade (blue and red) branch conversation with TIM in Mars, Thessia and Chronos Station, by first choosing the middle line on the left side of the dialogue wheel.
If you do, you'll get the final paragon choice.
Didn't say the right thing to him on Mars while I was still learning the game so that last Paragon comment that gets him to shoot himself was unavailable to me. SOOOO pissed.
true, but it may also be that shepard just gave up and would take anything he could. believe whatever may give him a chance.
There's a hidden paragon/renegade dialogue option on Mars in the very beginning of the game, to get it you have to choose the left option (where Investigate would be) to get it. Otherwise, they don't show up. It also doesn't matter if you mix/match, as long as you choose EVERY reputation option during dialogue throughout the entire game.
True. The way I saw it was that we went through all this pain, all these sacrifices, all these deaths only to end up holding hands (or tentacles?) with the reapers? Fuck that shit.
Just a fun fact, I'm 99% sure that the Illusive Man is an easter egg in Cyberpunk. Apparently, he watches you complete tasks in a mission from vantage points far away, and your bullets don't hurt him, like G-Man from Half-Life. However, he goes by 'Mr. Blue Eyes' when scanned, and looks like the Illusive Man, even down to similar clothing. And like the Illusive Man, he apparently likes cigarettes. I'm getting this knowledge second hand, though, so don't quote me on it. Just a fun easter egg, I guess. But the way Mr. Blue Eyes acts like G-Man in terms of watching you from vantage points and being impervious to damage is just a matter of how I compared it.
Man, I love Mass Effect.
Even in suicide, gangsters hold their guns sideways.
Ah... Martin Sheen.
In short, he was no saint and committed horrible acts, but when the doom of your entire species is impending, atrocities must be committed to survive.
I also like to pick Paragon for the last dialogue option and Renegade for all the previous ones. Provoking him with Renegade options makes his own responses much more interesting, as he's trying to convince himself that he did the right thing and is still in control of himself.
Yeah, that is called "a change in circumstances".
@spoonmonkey14 saren also had bionic implants .... just like the new illusive man. the less organic something is the more control the reapers have, they apparently make husks husks because it is easier to control massive amounts of them.
If you did a completely new run (not new game plus) with no import, you may have missed the one on Mars. I'm not talking about the top-right response either, there's a blue one on the left side of the wheel that unlocks when you have enough reputation.
You guys know that if you tilt your controler or your mouse upward that you will see a ceiling at a area around the crucible uptop shepard isn't breathing in pure space like a lot of you believe just look up and you will see