HarmonicPsyche I thought it was lame. It felt like a bad attempt to give TIM some sympathy and also felt like yet another ripoff from the Matrix. In the 3rd film, Neo says something like that to Trinity right before she dies.
limaniner34 How so? I liked it and it only happened if you got him to commit suicide by breaking through the Indoctrination. TIM says it no matter what. Saren was a way better antagonist. Also, because it was the first game, Indoctrination was a new thing. We didn't get to see Saren before he was Indoctrinated, though we heard that he was already an asshole. It was cool to see him break free momentarily, as Benezia did.
DownwithMarx Let's just say that I like the fact that in just one sentece TIM spouts the main reason to why he believes in humanity. Those last words were really fitting to his whole arc IMO.
limaniner34 I suppose. However nothing about Cerberus was for advancing humanity as a whole. Advancing Cerberus was always more important. TIM did see them as one and the same though.
You get that same moment if you don't get the final paragon/renegade options. Just as long as you catch the renegade interrupt option. I dunno what happens if you miss it.
Despite all the crap he puts you through, it's kind of sad, seeing how TIM aka Jack Harper ends. A man who technically was a Paragon Shepard during the First Contact War soon loses his way like this. A part of me feels sad he died after seeing how his eyes turned back to normal at the end. It's like in his last moments... he was finally free.
He deserved to die. He made me shoot Anderson, and killed countless innocent people. He was a deluded, obsessive madman, and as I pulled the trigger to kill the evil bastard..I smiled as I did it.
Agent Washington Oh, I'm not disagreeing there. TIM in ME 4 was a bastard who deserved it. I'm just saying it's sad to see that who he used to be, a good and Paragon-ish man called Jack Harper, turned into TIM.
MrAwesomeMatty I'm not bitting your pity of the Illusive Man one bit. Indoctrinated or Not, Illusive Man chose to do all those monstrous things to his victims.
Wow, this is way better than the Paragon one. It feels much more like a confrontation and war of the minds between Shepard and TIM. Shepard yelling at TIM is even better than the confrontation with Saren. I'm glad to see Shepard still gets the shot, and TIM doesn't commit suicide in this one. It's a nice difference. I'm still not sure if I see the confrontation as a smart call-back to Saren in Mass Effect or as a lazy ripoff. My initial impression was the latter, but this one seems like it might be the former because of Shepard's forceful words.
I just thought it was funny as I made two people Paragon shoot themselves and I'm like "I am God" 🤣 Both endings have power. Renegade, his eyes go clear and his last line was perfect. An upsetting end for what once seemed like a good man. For Paragon, he realized he was wrong and in his last ounce of control, he gathered the strength to kill himself to prevent further harm and losing his will completely, thus retaining what humanity he had left. Both have merit but I'm a paragon bugger all the way
Even if the illusive man was right in that controlling the reapers could lead to so many benefits and advancements. Logically, its still not worth the risk. Were talking about galactic extinction, there's no room for chance. I understand he's fully indoctrinated, I'm just clarifying that his logic is faulty
Yeah, literally every time someone tries to do something with the Reapers it ends in a crisis that can only be resolved with a bloodbath. The Illusive Man should know this better than anyone other than Shepard, it's not worth being greedy when so much is at stake.
This is for Admiral Kohaku This is for Injuries of Kaidan or Ashley This is for every innocent civillians killed by Cerberus This is for me. ( I'm sure he decided to bring us back because he was already indoctrinated and reapers needed Shepard anyway )
The writing is really top notch. In any other stories , the illusive man would just be your average stupid racist billionaire who wants money and power. But, here, he is a complex and intelligent man who has his own motives and plans
Maybe, but I like that line he says if you shoot him: "I wish you could see it like I do..." For everything else that he was, TIM was a patriot, believing fully in the potential of humanity. Few can say the same. I still feel like wringing his neck at the end of each playthrough, but that's besides the point.
what's your hate with TIM? Also do you have anything better to do than to comment to comments that are several years old you won't get a response at all (except for mine of course). TIM was a great character in the comics and in the games. sure he caused all lot of death but he died having noble goals.
Brayden Zaja I agree with you. TIM did so much for humanity... from the First Contact War to the war with the Reapers. Some of his methods were cruel or strange, but the aims were the best. And the results of his actions always were sufficient. When I discussed TIM with my friend, she disagreed. Then I said "Look at Miranda Lawson. Cerberus gave her something that her father couldn't. Look at Normandy SR-2. Look at Shepard after reconstruction and upgrades. You wouldn't be able to see theese things if Illusive Man was as terrible as you think. He did the things that must be done. And their price was fair. Just as he said - Salvation comes with a cost". She thought a little and said "You're right. At least, I can't argue with that". I suppose I need to tell that to every Illusive Man's hater and the Mass Effect Forums will finally become normal. And well, sorry for long answer and stuff like that. Communicating in English is a great experiense for me - i'm studying it right now.
@@thephoenixxm4160 fuck you. You seriously think Illusive Man cares about you? He DOESN'T. Illusive Man is using Shepard for what they represent to humanity. When he gets what he wants, he WILL cast you aside. But you are too thankful to both him and Liara because they were the "only ones" who cared about you to see it. Face it... The man is, not only, ruthless, sadistic, manipulative, and deceiving, but a psychopath and a monster. I know REAL leaders who lookout for their kind (ex: Wrex and Anderson). They would NEVER use their love for their kind as a convenient excuse to sacrifice 1000 innocent lives to save their kind. I like to see that son of a bitch try to talk his way out of hell.
I don't know what game you were playing but the Quarians were wiped out by the Geth. Shepard decided the Geth were a much better ally against the Reapers than the Quarians who can die from a tiny hole in their suit.
So wait.. Illusive Man, who is confirmed to be indoctrinated, as he is dying sees how “perfect” Earth is, meanwhile it’s getting demolished by Reapers. Hmmm almost like in his head he’s seeing what the Reapers wanted him to see.
"I need you to believe" ...words of this magnitude only mean one thing... DREAM SEQUENCE! FUCKEN GENIUS BIOWARE, my hat is off to your unstoppable approach to endings to any game in any format
He was indoctrinated tho, pretty much all his insane actions throughout me3 happened because he was under reaper control and didn't know it. In me2 he made sense but he just flipped in me3 because he's indoctrinated
The very end may have slightly sucked donkey balls but everything leading up to it was just fucking amazing I must admit it made me sad to see Anderson die the way he did
Michael Nally no, not for me. He was actually a really honorable person just trying to ensure humanities existence. He was also indoctrinated which made him somewhat evil in the third game.
Actually, the second option (which leads to "I KNOW it will work!") is the exact same thing in Renegade and Paragon. Same dialogue, same delivery, same outcome.
0:59 The Illusive man doesn't actually answer the question, "I need you to beileve" he just sort of stumbles around the issue and changes the subject. Shepard is realizing that this isn't real. Why? Why does he need Shepard to beileve? I guess the reapers didn't expect renegade Shepard to behave in this way, it shows that she is able to resist. The destroy option is red because renegade Shepard knows exactly who she is, and what she wants, and she is extremely difficult to control.
To be fair, Renegade Shepherd is quite on board with most of Cerberus’s agenda, and it is a part of the Illusive Man’s character to be a control freak, so attempting to earn Shepherd’s loyalty back by addressing his/her one point of contention is very much in character.
how did it happen that just a single reaper protected a beam, that can take anyone right to the catalyst? what if i didnt want to destroy the catalyst, not shoot at it? so what do you think illusive man has done to himself?
The indoctrination theory would in no way make the ending worse than it already is. Sure, it'd still be flawed, but at least there would be a bases of logic behind it. You're trying to make the excuse of, "Shooting a tube will cause the destruction of all synthetic life!" or, "Jumping into this beam of light will cause all organics to become part synthetic... and all synthetics become part organic..." The indoctrination theory can be played off at just the end btw, not the entire game.
So you're saying we should be satisfied with a job poorly done? B.S. I say DLC for the indoctrination theory. Easiest solution, and I personally find that to be an extremely interesting concept.
But...what are you talking about? The current endings make no sense. Pretty much everyone is in total agreement on this. They are completely inconsistent with the canon established thus far.
![Renegade Shepard: Funny & Ridiculously Evil Moments [ME1]](/img/1.gif)
"I wish you could see it like I do.
It's so...perfect..."
That line gave me chills o.o
HarmonicPsyche I thought it was lame. It felt like a bad attempt to give TIM some sympathy and also felt like yet another ripoff from the Matrix. In the 3rd film, Neo says something like that to Trinity right before she dies.
DownwithMarx Still better than Saren's "thank you, Shepard", which felt kinda cheap to be honest.
limaniner34 How so? I liked it and it only happened if you got him to commit suicide by breaking through the Indoctrination. TIM says it no matter what.
Saren was a way better antagonist. Also, because it was the first game, Indoctrination was a new thing. We didn't get to see Saren before he was Indoctrinated, though we heard that he was already an asshole. It was cool to see him break free momentarily, as Benezia did.
DownwithMarx Let's just say that I like the fact that in just one sentece TIM spouts the main reason to why he believes in humanity. Those last words were really fitting to his whole arc IMO.
limaniner34 I suppose. However nothing about Cerberus was for advancing humanity as a whole. Advancing Cerberus was always more important. TIM did see them as one and the same though.
Renegade was the true ending, in my opinion. We saw the Illusive man for himself in that last moment.
You get that same moment if you don't get the final paragon/renegade options. Just as long as you catch the renegade interrupt option. I dunno what happens if you miss it.
LOST DARKLORD Illusive man kills Shepard
@@highqualitypotato6174 canon ending for paragon weaklings.
@@highqualitypotato6174 is it a critical mission failure or ending where the reapers win ?
@@hawk66100 Critical failure
Despite all the crap he puts you through, it's kind of sad, seeing how TIM aka Jack Harper ends. A man who technically was a Paragon Shepard during the First Contact War soon loses his way like this. A part of me feels sad he died after seeing how his eyes turned back to normal at the end. It's like in his last moments... he was finally free.
He deserved to die. He made me shoot Anderson, and killed countless innocent people. He was a deluded, obsessive madman, and as I pulled the trigger to kill the evil bastard..I smiled as I did it.
Agent Washington Oh, I'm not disagreeing there. TIM in ME 4 was a bastard who deserved it. I'm just saying it's sad to see that who he used to be, a good and Paragon-ish man called Jack Harper, turned into TIM.
Darth Vader style. If he'd stayed as the guy called Harper, things would've been much better.
MrAwesomeMatty I'm not bitting your pity of the Illusive Man one bit.
Indoctrinated or Not, Illusive Man chose to do all those monstrous things to his victims.
He became indoctrinated sometime after the Suicide Mission. He had little control over what he did.
Wow, this is way better than the Paragon one. It feels much more like a confrontation and war of the minds between Shepard and TIM. Shepard yelling at TIM is even better than the confrontation with Saren. I'm glad to see Shepard still gets the shot, and TIM doesn't commit suicide in this one. It's a nice difference.
I'm still not sure if I see the confrontation as a smart call-back to Saren in Mass Effect or as a lazy ripoff. My initial impression was the latter, but this one seems like it might be the former because of Shepard's forceful words.
I just thought it was funny as I made two people Paragon shoot themselves and I'm like "I am God" 🤣 Both endings have power. Renegade, his eyes go clear and his last line was perfect. An upsetting end for what once seemed like a good man. For Paragon, he realized he was wrong and in his last ounce of control, he gathered the strength to kill himself to prevent further harm and losing his will completely, thus retaining what humanity he had left. Both have merit but I'm a paragon bugger all the way
If you compare 3:56 to 5:59, the Illusive Man's eyes change from their synthetic outline, to actual and normal blue irises.
Thanks for pointing that out! I never noticed that.
I dont see it
5:59 RELEASING CONTROL
Martin Sheen KILLED this role.
He dedicated his life.... reapers were only discovered what 6 years prior if that.
Reaper myths and legends have long existed in the galaxy
Even if the illusive man was right in that controlling the reapers could lead to so many benefits and advancements. Logically, its still not worth the risk. Were talking about galactic extinction, there's no room for chance. I understand he's fully indoctrinated, I'm just clarifying that his logic is faulty
Yeah, literally every time someone tries to do something with the Reapers it ends in a crisis that can only be resolved with a bloodbath. The Illusive Man should know this better than anyone other than Shepard, it's not worth being greedy when so much is at stake.
5:51 It's really sad when you get down to it. For all of his faults, the Illusive Man was someone that really just loved his home and people.
Sole Survivor Shepards:
*"That was for Akuze you son of a bitch."*
He shoots you instead and you get a critical mission failure.
That because Illusive Man was indoctrinated
This is for Admiral Kohaku
This is for Injuries of Kaidan or Ashley
This is for every innocent civillians killed by Cerberus
This is for me. ( I'm sure he decided to bring us back because he was already indoctrinated and reapers needed Shepard anyway )
The writing is really top notch. In any other stories , the illusive man would just be your average stupid racist billionaire who wants money and power. But, here, he is a complex and intelligent man who has his own motives and plans
Maybe, but I like that line he says if you shoot him: "I wish you could see it like I do..." For everything else that he was, TIM was a patriot, believing fully in the potential of humanity. Few can say the same.
I still feel like wringing his neck at the end of each playthrough, but that's besides the point.
SilverOverkill Illusive Man a patriot? that's funny... because I sure didn't see him doing any of the dying.
what's your hate with TIM? Also do you have anything better to do than to comment to comments that are several years old you won't get a response at all (except for mine of course). TIM was a great character in the comics and in the games. sure he caused all lot of death but he died having noble goals.
Brayden Zaja I agree with you. TIM did so much for humanity... from the First Contact War to the war with the Reapers. Some of his methods were cruel or strange, but the aims were the best. And the results of his actions always were sufficient. When I discussed TIM with my friend, she disagreed. Then I said "Look at Miranda Lawson. Cerberus gave her something that her father couldn't. Look at Normandy SR-2. Look at Shepard after reconstruction and upgrades. You wouldn't be able to see theese things if Illusive Man was as terrible as you think. He did the things that must be done. And their price was fair. Just as he said - Salvation comes with a cost". She thought a little and said "You're right. At least, I can't argue with that". I suppose I need to tell that to every Illusive Man's hater and the Mass Effect Forums will finally become normal. And well, sorry for long answer and stuff like that. Communicating in English is a great experiense for me - i'm studying it right now.
@@thephoenixxm4160 fuck you. You seriously think Illusive Man cares about you? He DOESN'T. Illusive Man is using Shepard for what they represent to humanity. When he gets what he wants, he WILL cast you aside. But you are too thankful to both him and Liara because they were the "only ones" who cared about you to see it.
Face it... The man is, not only, ruthless, sadistic, manipulative, and deceiving, but a psychopath and a monster.
I know REAL leaders who lookout for their kind (ex: Wrex and Anderson). They would NEVER use their love for their kind as a convenient excuse to sacrifice 1000 innocent lives to save their kind.
I like to see that son of a bitch try to talk his way out of hell.
@@tjk117 Calm down nerd
I ADORE The Illusive Man's last line here. It is the only reason i go renegade on this scene. His last line is beautifully done
Agreed, I'm a total sucker for lines like that!
what makes it even better is that i did this in my "canon" playthrough and my shep looked like a dollar store version of yours
The best line is: Because of you, humanity will suffer! Worst human traitor!
That was for Akuze
For Tooms
For Kahoku
For all the Pragia children
For David Archer
For Sanctuary
rip illusive man the children of rannoch send their regards
But they hate Cerberus.
I don't know what game you were playing but the Quarians were wiped out by the Geth. Shepard decided the Geth were a much better ally against the Reapers than the Quarians who can die from a tiny hole in their suit.
It's even better when you can get both.
Quarians and Geth are both shit. Shit AI, made by a shit species.
@@mushyroom9569 exactly, but I still get them both to join me then pick destroy to kill the geth off
So wait.. Illusive Man, who is confirmed to be indoctrinated, as he is dying sees how “perfect” Earth is, meanwhile it’s getting demolished by Reapers. Hmmm almost like in his head he’s seeing what the Reapers wanted him to see.
Just like Thanos only believed in his own vision.
Who knows what he saw there , since he was indoctrinated.
"I need you to believe" ...words of this magnitude only mean one thing... DREAM SEQUENCE! FUCKEN GENIUS BIOWARE, my hat is off to your unstoppable approach to endings to any game in any format
This feels so much more satisfying than Paragon. Basically telling him all his efforts where to server himself, and then shooting him.
He was indoctrinated tho, pretty much all his insane actions throughout me3 happened because he was under reaper control and didn't know it. In me2 he made sense but he just flipped in me3 because he's indoctrinated
The very end may have slightly sucked donkey balls but everything leading up to it was just fucking amazing I must admit it made me sad to see Anderson die the way he did
The two of you, so self-righteous. Do you think power like this comes easy?
Pull a Saren HAHAHAHAHA Bastard, but yes this one makes more sense
@TheMentorKing Yes, that's correct. So long as you used the paragon/renegade choices every time you've spoken to him.
God, I wish we got exclusive illusive man dlc.
He kills you, critical mission failure.
its so easy to miss the mars one and that one is right at the start of the game so im pretty fucked
Shepard Carnifex vs Illusive mans Predator pistol
shepards pissed off at this point lol
Amazing Game....
Shooting and killing the son of a bitch that lied to you in the 2nd game and to me killing him here was much more satisfying than killing Kai Leng.
Michael Nally no, not for me. He was actually a really honorable person just trying to ensure humanities existence. He was also indoctrinated which made him somewhat evil in the third game.
Yeah but he lied about the collector ship in the second game, and I never trusted him to begin with.
How do YOU know that YOU'RE not the one who's indoctrinated by believing that the ending ISN'T an indoctrination?
I kind of like this opinion better, better dialog.
I thought Reputation was like this Paragon-Renegade=Repıtation
Yep, but thank for the reminder.
Better than paragon
What is the name of the song that plays at the end? I'm trying to see if its on the soundtrack. Great game, including the ending in my opinion.
❤
It just been revoked
Indoc theory, Hold the Line!
Actually, the second option (which leads to "I KNOW it will work!") is the exact same thing in Renegade and Paragon. Same dialogue, same delivery, same outcome.
0:59
The Illusive man doesn't actually answer the question, "I need you to beileve" he just sort of stumbles around the issue and changes the subject. Shepard is realizing that this isn't real.
Why? Why does he need Shepard to beileve? I guess the reapers didn't expect renegade Shepard to behave in this way, it shows that she is able to resist.
The destroy option is red because renegade Shepard knows exactly who she is, and what she wants, and she is extremely difficult to control.
To be fair, Renegade Shepherd is quite on board with most of Cerberus’s agenda, and it is a part of the Illusive Man’s character to be a control freak, so attempting to earn Shepherd’s loyalty back by addressing his/her one point of contention is very much in character.
The indoctrination theory is not real
What happens if you don't use the renegade action after the conversation?
Holger Dansk-e he executes Anderson
kills anderson and you have to reload
how did it happen that just a single reaper protected a beam, that can take anyone right to the catalyst?
what if i didnt want to destroy the catalyst, not shoot at it?
so what do you think illusive man has done to himself?
What happens if you don't do the interrupt?
so you can pass the renagade check eben if you have only 1 percent renagade and talk to him renegade all 3 times?
I like your Shepard very much, may I please have the Face code?
there is always another way.............
The indoctrination theory would in no way make the ending worse than it already is. Sure, it'd still be flawed, but at least there would be a bases of logic behind it. You're trying to make the excuse of, "Shooting a tube will cause the destruction of all synthetic life!" or, "Jumping into this beam of light will cause all organics to become part synthetic... and all synthetics become part organic..." The indoctrination theory can be played off at just the end btw, not the entire game.
Let’s just be honest, the ending sucked and was a clear example of executive meddling, like a lot of the series. ‘Nuff said.
/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs this is the best and fairest argument for a new ending I've found yet. Check it out.
he he he ! why the female sheppard have only one cute in the face while the male broke everything XD ! he he
It's not just fan boy things... There are a lot of mistakes in the endings... I like them, they're cool, but there's a lot of holes in the plot .__.
So you're saying we should be satisfied with a job poorly done? B.S. I say DLC for the indoctrination theory. Easiest solution, and I personally find that to be an extremely interesting concept.
But...what are you talking about? The current endings make no sense. Pretty much everyone is in total agreement on this. They are completely inconsistent with the canon established thus far.
@Regina Flood Man, what a throwback! Hard to believe this was 8 years ago.
Its just not as cool with girl Shepard.
this bull crap better not be in mass effect andromeda learn your lesson bioware
Andromeda was worse.
Yea much worst