Translating Intent into Gameplay & The Assassin's Creed | Classic AC
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- Опубликовано: 17 июл 2024
- Excerpt from the upcoming Rogue's Chat with AnimusDrifter, where we talk about our thoughts on players being able to translate their intent into in-game actions, and how classic Assassin's Creed's more freeform systems adhered more closely to the backing philosophy of the player-character's faction.
This ten-minute topic was something I wanted to have an easy way to link and reference in the future, and the full interview is three hours long so I wanted something to tide people over while I'm still only halfway done scrubbing through and editing it.
AnimusDrifter:
/ @animusdrifter
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◆ Twitch: / leokrogue
◆ Twitter: / leokrogue
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#AssassinsCreed 
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![[Rogue Academy] Classic Assassin's Creed | Movement Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MXrg_3_3FBA/mqdefault.jpg)
full rogue's chat is three hours long and still coming
I imagine Drifter turns into AnimusPropaganda during these 3 hours
I enable him, I'm part of the problem
Kinda hate how people don't give credit to Ac for how its story and themes are reflected through gameplay, and how they did it so efficently and elegantly
It's a really cool aspect of the series, particularly closer to its beginnings when those kind of things were more cohesive.
There’s no better way to express “Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted” than by making society your playground. Classic AC was really good at placing you in a dense urban environment, and making the player see opportunities where others see constraints. Even the most mundane aspect of society becomes your weapon as an Assassin, and it’s a great fantasy. It applies to social stealth just as much as it does parkour, and it’s why I really love AC1-Revelations: they really knew what they were doing.
I really like when a game is so cohesively Itself.
@@LeoKRoguePerfectly put phrase
It was such a pleasure to go through this whole topic in such depth, as it holds so much meaning to us both, and I so can't wait for the entire chat to come out
Non contextual eject + manual 360⁰ grab is the most important combination of mechanics in Assassin's creed parkour history (in my opinion)
Very excited to hear this whole thing.
Wow bringing parkour into the Assassins Creed philosophy is something that I never thought about. It is so true though. The very free parkour of AC1-Revelations is literally the free will that the Assassins fight for. It’s the choice to be able to do unsafe ejects and jumps from great height. And I suppose you could say Ubisoft are the Templars for taking away all these freedoms and making parkour a lot more basic and sanitary
Ayy, I'm so glad we brought a new perspective about movement to the table, and true
Abstergo Entertainment is an arm of the wider corporation in Liberation, Black Flag and Rogue. :)
Another thing I'd like to add is that the leap of faith (tho obv based on the Hashashin) also embodied one of the three ways Albert Camus argued one may act when faced with inherent meaninglessness in existence--AKA, when you realize that Nothing is True.
Option A: Nihilism. Nuff said.
Option B: To recognize the absurdity of it all, and continue nonetheless.
Option C: The leap of faith--to absolutely and blindly place your faith into something beyond yourself.
And this is the paradox that made AC so good. on one hand, the assassin says nothing is true, but must hold the creed as true; says everything is permitted, but must be held back by the creed. Thus, where the Templar is looking for or trying to create meaning, the Assassin knows there is none--but must hold absolutely, almost fanatically to the creed, or risk being lost. So the leap of faith is both literally that, and figuratively that--it is the assassin believing, wholly, in the idea of what means to be an assassin.
Apologies for the word salad lmao, but sometimes I still get real passionate about AC.
Tl;dr: The OG team knew exactly what they doin.
All of this, yes. Mechanics enforcing the poetry of the story and themes.
Oh yea. Waffles and a Leo K video… optimal Sunday morning for sure
Lmao fr prepare of the week
Everytime I parkour around Baghdad in Mirage, I always thought of "man, I wish this game has AC 1 to Rev's parkour" because Mirage's parkour is an improvement from the RPGCreeds, but it's still really barebones and such nothing. I wanna do permadeath run, but playing more of Mirage just makes me wanna replay AC 1 to Rev again, and I'm probably just gonna do that instead.
Many such cases. v_v
I 100% believe it was the devs intent, to some degree. I remember reading a while ago an interview where one of the lead designers said that the philosophy coming from Sands of Time was that the player had to use parkour to figure out the "right path" so now they wanted to make the player use parkour to "create their own path".
And honestly to me that's the biggest tragedy of the new games. Even when narratively they're at their best, the gameplay don't reflect that. It became something that at best are two elements that work well on their own, but still don't compliment each other like before.
That cohesion is missed for sure.
love these classic ac videos, great work, keep it up
It almost feels like the maxim has been reversed in this "new era" of Assassin's Creed.
Now, everything is true (even the mythological nonsense disguised as Isu), but nothing is permitted (not even a manual jump).
That's pretty clever, I can kind of see that.
Cant wait for the full video, gonna be a great vid to just chill out and enjoy. Btw i love these roguechat videos Leo, keep em up! ❤
Thank you. After the one with AnimusDrifter, I _do_ have my next guest contacted, and I think it's someone people will really enjoy listening to. ^_^
@@LeoKRogue oh wow 👀 well i’ll be eagerly waiting for that!
every time i play ac1 i mourn the series we could've had if it was actually iterated upon,,,,,
True.
I love ALL Leo K [Rogue] videos!!!! ❤
loved it, pls more!
more coming
Stop trying to protect me. If i wanna break my legs then let me. Freedom is what I miss the most in modern AC. I don't need protection.
Very interesting conversation. Never thought about how the philosophy of AC could have been implemented into parkour like that. I miss the old parkour systems a lot and my hot take for the day is Unity’s parkour is incredibly overrated. Great video Leo.
Thank you. I feel the same, of course. I think it's _good,_ but it's missing too many important features to make me say it's _great._
😂😂i just wanna jump again
Leo K returning to playing Classic AC games?! Oh hell yes! I've been playing alot of AC1 as of very recently! It still blows me away by how good it is!
Talking about them, not really playing them that much.
@@LeoKRogue Ah ok. My mistake haha.
2:00 uhhh hello? based department?
😅
the drifter speaks!
And he will speak even more.
Technically its the Templars we have to thank for giving us the pupeetering system of the early Animus
And them to damn for taking it away, too.
What they are saying: Nothing is true, everything is permitted
What they are really saying: IF I WANT TO JUMP OFF A BUILDING, LET ME JUMP OFF THE DAMN BUILDING UBISOFT!
IT IS HAPPENING BRO! THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING! BEST PARKOUR PLAYER MEETS LEO K! LFG
look forward to it
Have You tried out the parkour mod for classic AC?
I'll play with it as soon as I'm done editing the full interview. I know the moment I start having fun with that I'm probably not going to get any work done for a little while.
While I appreciate AC1-Rev able to make it so versatile, ACU tackled an issue that affected a lot but I wish was versatile was control ease. Having a lot of input is more versatile but ACU was able to encapsulate contexts better but… I wish that versatility maintained with cancellable actions and omnidirectional features. That pulled out a lot and the start from removing down the line. ACU also freed up a lot from a gamedev PoV. But they kept removing more and more instead of reinstating or reworking the system to incorporate better with fewer inputs. That’s my gripe with recent entries but adored in older titles. While I love the puppeteer actions, I preferred that they could have simplified it more. ACU was that answer but it went 1 step forward and 2 steps back with that.
The dream of basically every AC player. The fluidity and ease of something like ACU with the freedom of something like AC1-Rev. It's a meme for a reason. ^_^
Hey leo, kind of unrelated to the video but is it just me or is 'Catch Ledge' extremely clunky in AC3? I just can't seem to get it to work. I do press the directional controls to try do it but it just won't work consistently. Any tips?
You can only Catch Ledge in AC3 as long as you're not in a "prescriptive" animation, so only if Connor is in a proper freefall with no currently targeted object the game is jumping him / snapping him to, I think.
It's funny how such a simple system (for today's standard) that Ubisoft could pretty easily reproduce and improve is the only thing Ubisoft seems to just not want to make: the classic parkour system philosophy. I'll never understand why.
I'm hopping AC: Hex is a more parkour oriented game since it'll be set in medieval Germany because I would like to see a parkour system, ANY parkour system, that Ubisoft would make nowdays. If they just won't reproduce and improve on the classic formula, then at least show us something new and interesting that is not a simple climbing system.
I assume one of the reasons why is because it just doesn't seem to be valued highly by players. Those who cared about movement as part of AC's identity are a small group, and don't really have much buying power to leverage, by the looks of it. AC also seems to test better and report better player satisfaction when movement is simple and players can't sabotage their own experience by messing it up.
Basically in the eyes of Big Ubi it's probably not worth it when what exists now already does so well. But, this "era" of AC is coming to a close, so yeah maybe Hexe will do something unique and different.
It kinda random but i want to ask that did ac Valhalla stealth work great before the patch that broke it ? I'm playing it recently and a lot of thing like enemy skipping the yellow bar or they can spotted me from very far away really made me mad. I curious about why ubi doing this cause in odyssey i really enjoy the stealth, i not sure but i remember enemy in that game skip the yellow bar too but i never get spotted that violently like in ac valhalla. Did ubi just do it to force player into combat so they can sell exp boost ?
It played _okay_ but it was still not fantastic. After the patches broke it though, it was essentially unplayable and I stopped trying to make it work. Ubisoft didn't intentionally break it since combat is still the faster playstyle even when everything worked fine, but it's definitely unfortunate.
Hey Leo, if you ever had the time, recourses and the right people, would you consider making your own equivalent of an older ac game (ac1 - rev), where the core game concepts - parkour, stealth and combat - would take heavy inspiration from older ac games?
I probably would, but "idea guys" are not very popular in game dev. Unless you have hard skills that can help carry an aspect of the process, someone with a cool vision isn't exactly the most useful. I could do level design or systems-design maybe.
@@LeoKRogue True, this is not a feasible idea. But Ubisoft will never really go back to that formula. Mirage was a step in the right direction, but we can't be sure that the future is bright for ac. Ubisoft can always pull another Odyssey and make a game that doesn't look or feel like an ac game, while having the benefit of having "Assassin's Creed" in the title for money purposes 😂
*cough* Tribute: An Assassin's Creed Fan Game is still in production and will be getting a parkour update soon^TM
That's actually great news. Was wondering recently. Are all your Discord invite links still fine? I had a comment recently asking about that.
@@LeoKRogue they should all still work. We get new people joining the server everyday from those links.
Do you still play unity Leo? I'm on my 5th playthrough and watching your videos has made me a better assassin. I was just curious if you still played it!
no. i'm glad i helped you enjoy the game more
Is it possible to enhance the audio quality of the guest somehow
Hard to catch some sentences
Yeah, my side-chain and audio-duck is just really aggressive here since I threw this excerpt together pretty fast. Final upload should hopefully feel nicer.
But the creed does not command us to be free. Only to be wise.
Maybe in a game design perapective, casual/majority of the players will end up falling to death 9 out of 10 times. That might not be fun, at all
Maybe a setting toggle would work?
that coming from someone whose username is FatherofUnderstanding is pretty fun, but axing complexity invites neither freedom nor wisdom, sadly. players do not fall to their death 9 of 10 times even in AC1-Rev, but for those who want it, a parkour-filter or toggle is a good idea as I've discussed before
i just thought of this but u can probably blame the upgraded versions of the animus refining the controls so that controlling your ancestor was automatic unlike the early versions of the animus where u needed the Puppetering controls to control each movement of your ancestor xD
You could, but that opens the door to them doing cool in-universe stuff, like Brotherhood Assassins downgrading or hacking Animus firmware to bring back the fine control of the older, less user-friendly systems, etc.
Thing is that this contradicts both the idea of doing what your ancestor did as closely as possible to achieve proper sync, and also simply doesn't properly reflect on a systemic level exactly because this removal of freedom doesn't let us do the same stuff with fewer buttons, but actively just lets us do less and less.
Really our problems with parkour are a dilemma many games face: Complexity vs Accessibility. We’ve all seen the clips of casual AC players ejecting off of viewpoints and lacking mastery even after multiple games worth of practice. While this is in large part due desperate lack in tutorial, a significant amount of the player base just doesn’t care about movement and for them it gets in the way of their enjoyment when it’s too complex. It’s not wrong to want to accommodate them, but if it comes at the expense of the players who love it that’s a huge problem too.
Fighting games went through a similar dilemma, with many removing lots of there complexity some years back to accommodate casual audiences. Heck it’s an even worse problem for them due to needing competitive fairness. No two games answered the same way but a common solution that made most people happy was reintroducing complexity but allowing alternative control schemes and systems to accommodate casuals. Dying Light 2 also did this with its movement to great success. I don’t know the realities of AC game dev, but I’m willing to bet that is the right way forward.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. Really interesting discussion on relating classic AC’s game design to its core philosophies. I’ll have to think about that some more. Can’t wait for the full talk!
there are ways to address and fix that
@@LeoKRogueI know. That was the second part.