Vlog #56 - Cheating
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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An examination of my old cheating habits and why I developed them.
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“In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity.”
Hunter S Thompson agrees with you ;)
I don't think that's what he was saying.
Quoting the video at around 2:00: "The point was, to get good grades, not, to get good grades honestly. The only reason to act honestly was that you wouldn't run the risk of getting caught cheating. Which would, after all, injure your ability to achieve the goal, in the first place."
Both quotes do address a similar issue. Only in the video, it is elaborated on, in order to support the argument about people's work ethics. The point being that the educational system has its priorities mixed up, focusing on the final grades, instead of the process of acquiring them. Which, in consequence, promotes a mentality gravitating towards dishonesty.
Cheating seems like the intelligent response to a system that values results over methods - and frankly, if you're invested enough to cheat, you're likely smart enough to get away with it.
The Jenna Pearl I cheat, have a 4.0
this is sadly so true
Couldn't have said it better. Its a valuable tool and it would be foolish not to use it. But not every can cheat just like not everyone can write a good essay. Cheating is an skill that is encouraged just like any other skill. If you do it right you get benefits but if you fail in doing so you get punished. However we never give cheating its credit directly. Cheating is said to be punishable but in practicality, it never happens unless you get caught.
This level of honest introspection is why you're my favourite RUclipsr.
james mckitrick I liked this comment only because you're an Englishman.
I HAVE cheated and I HAVE gotten away with it, and I'm glad. A lot of the time the system is set up to make us fail anyway. There's someone down in the comments saying that work ethic is is more valuable than simple ability (i.e. cheaters who say they could do it if they want to), and I agree, but ~they~ probably just got lucky in the sense that the schooling system teaches them in a way which fits to their learning style, and runs in a way that fits their lifestyle. Not everyone has that sort of privilege. I say, if you can find a loophole in the black hole that most school systems are, and you get away with it, and it makes your life easier, go ham. As long as you're not planning on basing your future on the thing which you cheated on, you're probably going to be fine. It's pretty ridiculous how much pressure is put on people taking exams anyway.
chating is also intelligence in some cases tho
I've never cheated because I've always recognized the inherent clusterfuck that comes with it, and I'm too proud to admit I can't do something. Even when cheaters tell themselves, oh, I could do this if I wanted to...they couldn't. It's not just about intelligence, it's about work ethic and moral strength. A cheater who says they could do this really has no grounds to, because theyre not, and plenty of people are. Work ethic is more valuable than simple ability. There is no pleasure in receiving respect or reward for someone else's work, and there is only pain in feeling unable to keep up with work because you've been coasting all along. Cheaters don't win, because while the rest of us grow and conquer, they write themselves a pass based on hypotheticals, and at the end of the day, it's something they were never strong enough to face.
Preach! 👏👏👏
+funstuff81girl I believe in absolutely no cheating so much in my school days that I see having people help you out with projects as cheating. Life then brought me a harsh lesson when i was 17 - I was forced to let someone help me out with a project (the teacher was shitty, everyone other than the top students got help elsewhere, my team mate asked her bf to help). He did a large portion of it. Initially I asked him to teach me, not to do it for us. He told me he doesn't have the time to teach me the stuff my teacher should have taught so I have to either take it or leave it. That episode scarred me. It made me feel I don't deserve my diploma because someone else did most of that one project. It was my first lesson of 'human connections is the key to survival in a really bad situation'. Students, especially financially poor ones, have no power over shitty teachers here.
+funstuff81girl cheaters alone don't win, that's true. but that doesn't mean honest people always win either. sometimes, they will, sometimes they won't. but there is another kind of people : the ones who both cheat and work. they're probably the ones who always win in the end
narwhalsnarwhals pizza
There are children who do not cheat even though they are not as privilege. Therefore it is still unfair to them when one of them does it. Will there be underprivileged children mixed with rich children in a school? Certainly. Should we close one eye and let these children cheat their heart out so they can get ahead in life? I don't think so.
llgla dramatic
This is one of my favorite channels. You're very talented!
I don't cheat. I know I don't cheat for selfish reasons, like the pleasure of saying "I don't cheat" but, there's something else... The guilt of getting a bad grade is good guilt. You didn't study hard enough, nest time study more. It's the kind of guilt I can only blame on myself. The kind of guilt you get from getting caught cheating is different. It's a dark guilt that dwells deep inside you. You still blame yourself but it can't be fixed with a simple "Just study more". I don't know how to explaining it correctly, but it feels like embarrassment mixed with self-hatred. I hate that feeling so much I've stopped in exams. However I have sharp eyes and I see every opportunity to cheat around me. I feel other kinds of guilt. Regret. I regret all the opportunities that I've missed for trying to be honest and do the right thing. I think you just have to take the road that makes you feel better than the others. In this case, the best of the worst.
In Brazil we say "whom does not cheat, doesn't finish school"
you got your whom wrong there
@@psitae probably cheated in english
Cheating in tests is a strategy in a society/school system where grades are so important. Try a school without grades or where grades are not based on test but on teachers knowing the kids. Try a school system where you don't need good grades to get into a good college...
If grades were based on how well the teacher knows the kids, grades will not be dictated by skill but rather by how manipulative the kids are.
Spoken like someone who never experienced such a system.
Sebastien Cormier spoken as a person that does lives under such a system, and has used manipulation several times to increase my gpa
Yup, I went to a slightly weird charter school for a couple of years and I have never seen organized cheating on scale of which that I saw there. The system itself works independent of grades/marks on the outside but once inside you learn that that couldn't be further from the truth. The grades just take on different forms or usually a check of completion. Since everything that went into the school was processed by very few the scale was easy to tip in your favor. This included SATs and ACTs. (which due to being the only school in its district technically was held on site)
Cheaters do win. One rarely becomes a CEO or a successful salesperson with the sort of psychopathy required to treat others as ends to their means. The idea that cheaters do not win is a holdover from religious values, and in fact shares its roots in the creation of the idea of heaven and hell. People see others getting away with abuses in this life, which doesn't make sense in a world supposedly governed by an all-powerful benevolent god, so clearly they're getting their punishment in the next world; conversely, we often see the truly giving among us among hard-working people who don't seem to be financially successful or powerful, so these "meek" must "inherit the kingdom of god".
The truly moral act is to do the good thing for the good it does in this world, rather to avoid doing bad merely because of the fear of an angry (yet somehow benevolent) god watching over you. Evolutionary biology shows us the nature of altruism and how in a world of altruistic individuals, the selfish individual can certainly get ahead, but the more people behave selfishly, the less benefit behaving selfishly actually accrues. Our myths about morality, however, often get in the way of our making moral decisions: myths about tribal gods, myths about nationalism, myths about cultural and racial exceptionalism. Unfortunately, as we become smarter and more sophisticated as reasoning beings, it also becomes easier to justify what we want to do as "right" and "moral", even if we have to stretch reason itself to do so.
Foreign policy is a great example of this in the US. You have many people in this country who believe that the US is always on the side of good simply because we tell ourselves that. This means that for these people, self-examination, and critical thinking about consequences of our actions in foreign policy is never actually necessary; we're the good guys and that's that. These same people often (but not always) also have a book that tells them that their god defines what is right, and by following him, they are automatically right. Of course, if their god told them to take their firstborn child to a mountain and sacrifice the child, they might feel differently about the supposed moral superiority of Abraham.
+delusionnnnn i enjoyed your thoughts. I always debate myself if I am doing good because I am a good person or because I selfishly crave the recognition that I am a good person, either from myself or others. I'm that type of guy who waits for the worker to see I'm putting $ in the tip jar. I wonder if there's truly a thing as a selfless act.
+delusionnnnn I for one think cheaters don't necessarily win. For ex. if they were to have above average soft skills and could use them immorally to bring themselves to acquiring a position of CEO, then in that scenario I can see how one cheater might win.
However, if they coasted through College while receiving a STEM degree through cheating like let's say in Medicine. Then that doctor who barely made it by through cheating would face the ramifications of his actions in his new career. They might kill a patient for not knowing the right procedure or not having that mindset that is developed through study, and what not, things that can only be acquired through hard honest work. That doctor will feel inadequate and helpless with a degree that doesn't reflect their actual hard skills, thus becoming a immense burden on the individual. In this case, a cheater wouldn't win.
Zsprite 79 My comment is more of a response against the notion that cheaters "never" win, which clearly they do. This is not to say they always win; I wouldn't go that far, but there are professions and avenues of interests where cheaters are uniquely poised to exercise advantages over those not willing to exploit the needs of others to their own ends.
delusionnnnn in that case, yes I agree.
Great video.
It's really weird how I cheat even when I have nothing to gain if I get a better result. For example, I used to cheat in my French class even when the test wasn't being graded and the only point was for the teacher to know what we don't understand. It may sound stupid but I do think cheating is addictive. Even when we stand nothing to gain our brain just subconsciously wants us to not try hard and just cheat. And yes of course no one ever gets away with it.
That remind me of my high school teacher who said before each exam : you're allowed to cheat but not to get caught
Cheating was how I passed Chemistry. Which, say what you want about work ethics and morality, the high school system in America forces you to learn things that sometimes you have no interest in. You can learn it and then forget it in a year, or you can just cheat and get it over with.
I've cheated three times - once I looked at another girl's test to check my answer in science class, once I worked together with a girl to type up our math notes (our teacher was insane and made us EACH type up all of our math notes WITH THE EQUATIONS TYPED CORRECTLY, FOR TEN PERCENT OF OUR FINAL GRADE), and once I wrote a poem for another kid's english class for $5 and an iced tea. But I dropped out of college, one of the reasons for which being the focus on grades THAT MAKE NO DIFFERENCE ONCE YOU GRADUATE, long before I ever felt compelled to cheat.
I got a B in my final maths exam but I never learnt my 8 times tables.
I feel you. 8 times tables are the hardest.
"Let's never buy into that bullshit that I am the only one responsible for my actions or you are the only one responsible for yours, we're all responsible for one another"
Nice rationalization you got there.
Paul Kennedy when you point it out by itself, it sounds like he's rationalizing to himself. But when I first watched the video I didn't even look at it like that.
I thought he meant that as in "if I kidnap your loved ones with the threat of killing them, then I'm pretty much responsible for the Liam Neeson -like retribution coming my way. In that sense, I was responsible for your actions, yet you are not absolved of the property damage you caused getting trying to get to me."
I feel like I should have thought of a better metaphor, but I like it and it works.
Paul Kennedy Paul Kennedy when you point it out by itself, it sounds like he's rationalizing to himself. But when I first watched the video I didn't even look at it like that.
I thought he meant that as in "if I kidnap your loved ones with the threat of killing them, then I'm pretty much responsible for the Liam Neeson -like retribution coming my way. In that sense, I was responsible for your actions, yet you are not absolved of the property damage you caused getting trying to get to me."
I feel like I should have thought of a better metaphor, but I like it and it works.
As a classroom teacher, I have caught entire groups of people cheating, plans they worked out together, but weren’t smart or sophisticated enough to conceal it effectively, but I’ve rarely looked too harshly at those guilty, because I knew it took intelligence to plan and execute it, and also I understood that this was one moment in their educational careers, and I also knew that probably most students had cheated at one point or another. As you said, cheating is ingrained into our nature, culture, into our very species...so it’s really not all that shocking a behavior. I think most honest students who have cheated...don’t make it a regular course of action, and if they do, they’ll likely not succeed for too long.
I don't cheat because I'm too proud to admit I can't do something. Also it's a pain in the ass.
I understand.
i cheated a lot in high school. for us, as opposed to the us, although you knew what university you wanted to go to, you had to finish the same classes regardless. i knew from fifth grade that i wanted to study architecture. most of the stuff i studied in high school was pointless to a point. so i cheated. i'm not sorry. i had to study the same type of math that my mates who finished computer science studied. i will never be sorry for cheating in subjects that served no purpose to me and were a huge drag in my education
we cheat a lot in our school tests, and it's never really passing notes or stealing the answer key or anything, it more of a discussion during the test where you mouth answers to each other when the teacher isn't looking...n honestly? those are the best memories of my time in high school.
I mean, it is a fact that our education system tests our memory over our comprehension and understanding of the subject and I get the importance of knowing things by heart n all but the kind of ridiculous things we are expected to remember is crazy!
I feel like in the real world, the chances that I will have to know something word to word without being allowed to reference anything is as low as the chances of my brother cleaning his room.
cheating in those tests wasn't only about getting a good grade or about trust and loyalty, but it was also about working with a group of people together to tackle a problem.
this “CHEATING" is probably the most important thing I learnt in school
Once when I was seven I stacked the deck when playing my grandma in UNO... but then I told her...
One of my professors in college had spent some time teaching in China. Almost all of her students there clearly plagiarized, and when she went to an administrator they were confused as to why she approached them. Plagiarism was "efficient" and clearly the students should pass. What is and isn't "cheating" varies from culture to culture.
There was one thing my mother always used to tell me kept me away from wanting to cheat. If you cheat and get away with it, you will eventually be held accountable for that knowledge in the future. So, she would tell me, you should always want to get the grade that you deserve so that you will be able to meet the level of accountability that that grade requires. I suppose this was a bit naive to believe that this would always be the case, but because of that thought cheating didn't become a habit for me.
I proud to say that I only cheated twice during highschool on 2 exams that were due on the same day. I was so terrified of getting caught, that I never did it again.
Now i am only cheating on my health and lie to my self, that I'll quit my bad habits quite soon.
It's starting to bite me in the arse;
I have never been so sick that often in all my life but I continue to rationalize it away by telling my self that I'm so much more productive that way, even if my immun systhem is the worst it has ever been.
I'm as frustrated as with this as themissingn, being someone who has never intentionally cheated academically. It pains me to find out that you, someone so in love with learning, actually cheated his way to the finish. What frustrates me the most is that despite working hard and earning my place in university to get the job at the end of the yellow brick road, it's going to be someone who cheated their way there who gets the job I've been working for years for. And all my learning is for naught.
"we are all responsible for one another" - bullshit, someone that doesn't cheat never has an obligation to take some responsibility for others if they do
+Jack Morganjones That is correct. Quite a few (pretty much everyone) people are responsible for supporting and accepting a school system that encourages grades over education. A system that at least in my experience also encourages cheating.
I think cheating is not the cheater's "responsibility" but simply a response to the imperfection of the system of rules
I honestly don’t remember a time when I cheated...although I know I did at some point. In college, I didn’t exactly cheat, but I often wrote papers in a reverse-method manner. I would write what I already knew or thought I knew...and then would scramble to find academic sources to back up what I had already concluded. It worked well, mostly because I was studying education and literacy and literature and child psychology and other things...and I just knew things from casual reading and experience. I could then easily write papers arguing my perspective, and then I could easily find sources to support my arguments. I did this for both my undergraduate and graduate program. I did not do this for law school, however. Not possible. At least in my experience.
It's basically come down to the fact that now education is a tick box for getting jobs, it no longer exists just for education itself. The best way to sort it is to somehow completely separate education from jobs.
Then nobody cares about exams and people can be taught more useful stuff relevant to life. Things like practical politics, tax stuff, philosophy, real dating education blah blah blah
I don't hate cheaters, I would never condemn someone just for doing what they need to do to get by. Unless they were killing people or something idk
One of your best vlogs yet. I feel like I know you little better now. Keep creating these great videos.
As far as I can remember, I only cheated once in high school, and for the purpose of showing how cheaters can prosper.
This was in a economics class and we were doing a game of monopoly to show certain economic principles and how to manipulate them to win the game. I decided to show the flaws in the system by cheating. This culminated in winning by a decent margin.
After the game the teacher was asking the winners of the different games how they won and what methods did they use. As I was cheating to show a point, I took this opportunity to explain how I won and why I did it. Showing that if you can accomplish it without getting caught and if you are amoral enough to ignore the damage you are doing to your fellow human beings, that cheating can result in huge gains.
The teacher was shocked, but appreciated my honesty and explanation enough to give me an A for the project.
when I was on high school I cheated a lot... What happened is that I never suffered the consequences even when my teachers knew that I was cheating (reputation) but my friend who was providing me with an answer did. I felt so bad I never cheated again. Also, I moved from Venezuela to Portugal- where I thought it was much more severe to get caught cheating; and I was really trying hard to achieve something, which never happened before because it was too easy.
Einstein once said why should i memorise anything when i can look it up in a book
Cheaters realized the system was put in place to create workers for factories, and thus understand that the sole purpose of being in school is to behave like a good computer. When this becomes clear, and the stress and constant anxiety of being a teenager is piled on top of learning disability, the next step is quite simple. If the point is to get a good grade, then you get the good grade. The teachers don’t care that you learn, the school doesn’t care that you learn, the system itself wants good test scores so they can get better funding by the state education board. So you cheat on the test to make your day easier, reduce your own stress, and play your part as a cog in the machine until you finally can escape.
I mainly cheated because I was trapped in a place that didn’t care whether I learned or not, and that wasn’t a conducive environment for me to learn anything. I always did better on my computer at home, learning things and seeking out knowledge on my own terms and at my leisure. When the system doesn’t care about you, you don’t care about it. I haven’t been to a school in years, and I learn more now of my own free will than I ever learned from spending eight hours a day trapped inside a building that made me feel exhausted and worthless.
I can proudly say I did not cheat :3
It does not matter though, I could have scored better but I took honesty more seriously than my grades. :P
I have no problem with cheaters (in general, mind my words), but I'm not that type of person. First, I'm literally the worst at cheating; I shake, begin to sweat, ... It's just all the obvious. But second... I don't want to cheat. I want to KNOW, want to learn, and not let someone else learn it instead of me. That just my two cents, I think I'm just to honest (at least about studying) to be a good or moral cheater.
Speaking as someone who spent 99% of his time in school NOT CHEATING, let me just point out how utterly frustrating it is to watch people get good grades whilst having done no work for it. Really, you can't discuss the ethics of cheating simply in terms of whether you can get away with it or not, or in terms of inner qualms you may or may not have. Cheating is wrong, regardless of the consequences to your own personal life. It is wrong because it is hurtful to other people.
I never cheated. 1) If I was interested in a class, learning the material was easy for me. Cheating simply wasn't necessary. 2) If I wasn't interested in a class, I expended minimal effort. Cheating would have required extra effort, so I never bothered. 3) The super mega hard classes I hated but had to pass all had built-in workarounds, e.g., open notes or index cards. 4) I do find cheating morally wrong, but the decision not to cheat did not stem from morality for me. I do not know whether morality alone would have stopped me from cheating, but I would like to think so.
I've cheated. I've gotten away with it and I have never seen a reason to feel bad about it eather.
See if I cheat, I don't get caught, the person next to me regularly cheats off my paper as well, then who is harmed by it?
nobody. The teachers won't be able to teach better if I'm honest because they don't take the results of tests and work with them anyways- They stay with their old teaching methods and if the students get bad grades they blame the "lazy, stupid students these days" no matter if I cheat or not.
is it unfair against others, the kids who don't cheat?
no, not really. why do i need to cheat? probably partly because I was born less smart and less disciplined and organised than those other kids in my class, maybe because my parents don't force me to study if I don't want to. either way, those things arent my fault.
if i don't cheat, i still have disadvantages compared to other kids in my class- So I cheat in order to make it more fair, to have a chance to get good grades as well. after all, finishing school and having decent grades is a pretty important element of my happiness, and i don't deserve less happiness just because I was unable to get grades as good as the ones my fellow classmates got.
Is it unfair against the kids who get bad grades and still don't cheat? No, not really. they either don't care enough about their grades to bother trying to cheat, in which case not cheating does less damage to them than it does to me so it's not really unfair.
or of course they assume cheating is wrong in which case.. well it isn't wrong in any way, therefore it's a bit like saying "wow I'm vegetarian it is so unfair that you get to eat meat and I don't. " They could cheat, just chose not to because of theit own moral views on it- just because my views are different doesn't mean it's unfair.
Dude, your earlier vlogs such as this one are so much better than your recent over-edited Michael Jackson videos
Failing to disagree, I began looking through the comments to find at least one point of argument against you. Now I'm 100% convinced.
I was in a long distance relationship for 3 years; it ended last July. Over the course of those 3 years, I cheated on my partner profusely. She never knew. She still doesn't know. I don't ever plan on telling her.
I was the boyfriend on the phone with her almost every night, telling her how much I loved her and missed her. I was also the guy who knew how to talk to women and intrigue women around me. I did love her. I never lied about my feelings.
I got away with it. But I wanted to marry her.
When I was in college, I never cheated and I have a feeling of pride that I did the hard work and earned my degree. I was the same in high school. I would never let anyone cheat off me because I felt they did not deserve the reward of a good grade if they did not put in the same amount of effort I did. The only time I ever remember cheating was in Spanish class. My mother is from Columbia and I took advantage of her enthusiasm to practically do my Spanish homework for me because I had no interest in the language. Ironically, my current work place has me interacting with many Spanish speaking coworkers. I finally feel motivated to learn the language because of a desire to communicate with others. I didn't feel that when I was in High School. So in the end, I am correcting my mistake.
you mean colombia. and ah thats cool 😎
Precicely the problem:
1) There are generaly more people than jobs. Joblessness is built into the system.
2) If the job-pyramid stand on its foundation, having a narrow tip, symbolizing high-paying CEO positions, the graduate-pyramid is - oversimplified - standing on its tip, putting the foundation up.
3) Fresh graduates may have the expertise but not the experience. Hence, they vie for lower jobs to gain the XP and quarrel with lower graduates.
I cheated once in 11th grade on a homework assignment. I did it because at the time I was involved in sports, had a 1.5 hour 1 way trip to school, and was overburdened with homework that I had no chance of getting done. It was prioritized and placed lowest on my list. I did ask for an extension, and was denyed it which left me with two options. Shortcut or failure. Now I am in the real world I realize the purpose of school was specifically how to learn operate in a system.
"Let's never buy into that bullshit that I am the only one responsible for my actions or you are the only one responsible for yours, we're all responsible for one another"
I find that there is another negative aspect of cheating that you forgot to acknowledge. If you think of the SAT as a way to separate hardworking students from lazy ones, and use cheating to disguise yourself as a hardworking student, are you cheating in such a way that takes advantage of another person?
Yes. Suppose I study hard and earn a 1400/1600 on the SAT. You, cheating, copy off me and "earn" the same 1400 that i do. When people(or colleges) look at SAT scores, they do so with the mentality that a 1400 makes people more hardworking because only they would earn 1400s. By cheating your way to a 1400, you steal that title from all of those who earned their grades. You take advantage of everybody who earned it truthfully, who put their honest hard work in, and toiled to establish the notion that good grades are earned by smarter people. By cheating to earn a title, you rob everybody who earned it honestly. Why most people are unable to connect spousal cheating and cheating on tests is unknown to me. Both involve taking advantage of someone for personal gain.
This is the problem with teaching for grades rather than teaching for mastery
I believe you're right, themissingn. But we are other than our beliefs.
It's a reflex for me actually. I don't do it willingly.
I've spent so much time on this one question that I'm sure I can't remember the answer. My left eye is twitchy. Bob has "the year 1924" written down. Fuck me.
It's really crazy how prevalent cheating really is. I have no respect for people who cheat on anything/one. It's a house of cards that eventually falls down on people. And, I've never cheated in my life. I plan to keep it that way.
I believe he actually touches upon this. Somewhere somehow someone is effected when you cheat, if only it is that it hurts the perceived value of those that do not, there is still that.
It is wrong because it hurts society as a whole by skewing the results of numbers meant to represent our achievements.I still think that there is something to be said about what he is talking about in terms of why people cheat in regards to the way our society pressures young minds to achieve, not learn.
Yeah, i cheated. I cheated on tests, lied to family, take sick days from work when im fine, steal stuff, and I've been unfaithful. I won, and im still winning.
Weirdly, it isn't the cheating i regret, it's the times i tried honesty and lost out.
Back at you, Paint. Let's collaborate sometime.
Always have. Now that I'm 27 I can say i don't find the need to cheat as often as I did in school. I was the first in my grade to share my secret of photocopying study notes and using the zoom feature to create awesome little cheat sheets. Witnessed a teacher pick up a test to read the question and the poor girl got caught. If your gonna cheat don't get caught
You got me thinking...
For me, getting good grades in school was easier than cheating... and mathematically, simply not doing the work I didn't want to do was less risky (and controllable/consistant) than the gamble of being found out by my (surprisingly smart) teachers.
I wonder how I would have acted in a situation where cheating was the path of least resistance...like if I was studying in the U.S.
I absolutely love all of your comments on this. Thanks to everyone for sharing.
I actually don't cheat, I don't believe in lying and care strongly about my word having value (my brother is a horrible liar and his word is worth dirt), I don't lie in interviews or on my resume either. In school I recognised how bullshit grades were and how they largely amounted to memory tests so I didn't consider grades a legitimate way to measure value, my parents were more concerned with us trying our hardest than getting good grades. I found learning for it's own sake pretty early on. Not lying has occasionally caused problems, but I've also found honesty worthwhile.
I was going to cheat once on a math exam, just the formulas only to have it turn out the teacher was giving us them anyways.
I never cheated in school. I never saw the point to it. I heard an anecdote about a guy who got caught cheating on a chemistry exam. Turns out, he had spent 6 hours perfecting his cheat sheet, when it would have taken him 2 hours to study the material.
You mentioned this in the video. The problem with cheating is that the educational system values grades over education. I like learning, so maybe that's why I never cheated.
I never really saw cheating as a bad thing until my boyfriend pointed out that it prevents us from knowing who the real best are. Preventing someone else more worthy than me from being recognized as better is something I don't want to do. I don't want to reap someone else's rewards.
That being said, if so many people cheat and don't get caught, we can never know who DOES deserve those rewards...
I've cheated on a couple of occasions, and I don't feel sorry about it. So much pressure was put on me to get good grades and so I decided to cheat only when I hated the teacher or if I really needed to get a good grade. Just because I'm a cheater doesn't necessarily mean I didn't try, but cheating is sort of used as a last resort for those who don't understand or couldn't be bothered with learning the material
From a utilitarian perspective, cheating with out getting caught is a good thing, In a sense it is encouraged, and can be viewed as a strategic advantage. Cheating in that sense only has a negative impact if you are bad at it. I guess at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if you are comfortable with cheating within your own code of ethics.
That's true, he does briefly touch upon this. And I also agree with a large part of the video, insofar as the all-importance of grades in school "incites" us to cheat, which in turn has an impact on society as a whole.
What I disliked was the hidden assumption that, if you can live with the risk of cheating, then it's okay. I think this is most noticeable at 4:22, when he calls infidelity "a kind of cheating that [we can't] justify," implying that other forms of cheating are justifiable.
In answer to the final question: Yes, yes I did. I honestly perish the thought of where I'd be in life if hadn't. Yet still paranoid enough about getting caught that I can't be any more specific than that
OMG I cheated on one test in Arabic class once because I didn't understand anything also in French when I was new, but jeez cheating in College is ridiculous.
I never cheated. I enjoyed learning what I wanted to learn. I got C's & D's in high school. Barely got in to a 2 year college and got C's & enough B's to go on to university. As I went on through my master's & doctoral programs it became clear to me that the more I studied what I wanted the better my grades were. I never occurred to me to cheat. I never occurred to me to want high grades just get high grades. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning. Maybe, I'm just abnormal.
Cheated on many tests in school, to get grades that don't mean anything anymore because when I was 16 I had no clue what I wanted to do. I was 21 when I decided to persue further education.
I don't know when I developed a sense of honor or pride to never cheat, maybe it was because the early times when I looked at my classmates test out of curiosity and found that they got the answer wrong I believe that you can't trust others. I always remembered a quote by John Wooden (no idea who he is) "The true test of a man's character is what he does while no one is watching."
There is also the fact that in some education systems, like the one I am currently part of, where the grades that you get for the amount of correct marks, varies somewhat on the performance of those taking the exam. That means that when you or I cheat in these exams to get more correct marks that we may not have gotten otherwise, we are also making it more difficult for others to get their good grades.
Who are these people?! I have myself got bad grades several times when I felt I deserved better, and I have known people who didn't get along with this or that teacher, which affected their marks. But I've never encountered anyone who *consistently* got bad grades despite working hard. Grades aren't assigned randomly.
Even assuming such people exist, surely they form a tiny "inherently unlucky" minority. Surely grades tend to help more than they hurt. And our minority should complain, not cheat.
I have a very strange standard I hold myself to in terms of cheating. I wouldn't ask for someone's work just to copy exactly what their ideas were, but if I'm struggling with a question, I'll ask someone to explain it to me, and if I still don't understand, I'll just put what they had. I suppose it's the last resort in a situation of necessity which allows me to justify it.
I treat "cheating" (mainly just checking my answers) not as a way to get ahead, but a way to save myself from a failure. I do it in an equitable way, so to speak. I think of it in a similar fashion to people with mental disadvantages such as ADHD require medication to function the same way as the average person. I consider it immoral for people of sound mental health to use drugs that enhance intellect because they don't require such medicine. People at a disadvantage require it just to break average. I follow this same concept for if I don't understand a teaching style used by certain teachers, and some concepts do not make sense to me.
During tests, I do my own work, but if I'm unsure of something I'll check off my neighbour. This is strange for a person who was put in an academically gifted program from a young age, however. I feel like I just cruised through most of school easily because of my natural gift, so when things got more difficult and I had to work hard to earn my grades, I wasn't ready. I'm still able to grasp most concepts easily, but I consider it more important to dishonestly get a good mark than to honestly throw my future away.
Where most people would fear that they would eventually have to pull up their socks and put in work before they end up in a job their not qualified for, I fear not. I'm lost in the assumption that since I am smart deep down I'll be able to become a genius as soon as I put in any amount of effort, which is a dangerous way of thinking.
I never did the technical kind of cheating, but I do feel like I've cheated with my ability to produce a paper that is so lazily spewing back everything the teacher said, but also have it be different enough the teacher thinks its good and gives me an A on it. I basically didn't do the assignment and mastered how to make papers that sounds good and really could have been two paragraphs not ten pages.
Honestly I've only ever cheated once; a group of friends had a paper hidden behind they're backpack and we all looked at it while we took our test
Sir Ken Robinsons Ted talks are fabulous, and they're so good even my uni shows them sometimes.
However, he has a very idealistic kind of approach to education.
It's easy for him to suggest an "organic" system in relatively vague terms, using anecdotes, when he doesn't have to develop it.
Another problem is that - in his world - there are no stupid people. The Soviet Union faced the same problem: If everyone gets the job they want/are talented for - who will sweep the streets?
No-one.
in school most of those who didnt cheat would have done it if they had the courage. This whole straving for good grades supports this as grades are not the perfect way to show real performance. It values eighter how much self sacrifice you did by using ur time to learn, the wallet of your parents that paid ur learning Assistent ( whatever you call that) or your courage in gaining advantage through other 'ways'
to clarify (being concise is not my strongest point) I, much like other successful students, revise because it is my best chance of getting maximum marks, least risk. I too, feel threatened by competition who has cheated to reach the level I have, but this is a self interested defense, not moral or psychological condemnation. I feel cheaters have done less than I have because of my methods, but I don't feel less "worthy" for say, a job, than peers who tried harder yet performed worse then I did.
please tell me you've done an audiobook or podcast? I can't keep re-watching your videos just to listen to your voice. I just find the sound of your voice so relaxing I can completely zone into coursework & things of this nature. Really love your video, sweetie. Keep up the great content you're a very clever boy :)
I never wanted to cheat in exams. I felt that everything was results based in high school, but I also saw that it was because of a beurocracy which simplified things to being all based on grades rather than learning and I disliked that, because I wanted to concentrate on learning. In the end I did badly in my last two years of school and have built up to where I am now more slowly because I just couldn't figure out exam technique and how to understand what the examiner was actually asking for.
I never really knew how to cheat. I always got nervous and couldn't do it. But yeah, I wish I had cheated a few times, especially because I saw friends that knew nothing and cheated getting better grades then me....
I many times made cheat sheets, never used them. I once cheated on a test by looking online while on the bathroom on my Erasmus, I failed that midterm, and when taking the full term one, I aced it. I nearly got caught once in an exam helping another student, the tutor left me off the hook. I don't 'get away with it' because I already undervalue my achievements as it is, if I didn't deserve them I just feel useless, which I hate more. Also, I thought that cheaters now will lose in the real world.
here we have a classic problem in the education system, people, and some teachers for that matter, teach to the test. the point of school is to learn skills you need, but people are lazy, people procrastinate, and in the end, we only learn what we have to to get by. and cheating falls under that category. we want to do the least, to get the most, it's human habit
On this note I very much agree.
This manifests very much in if you "click" with your teacher. At university, I can basicaly pick my courses, and so, I can assure that I get the teachers that are just on my frequency most of the time.
In contrast, there are some teachers that have extremely high levels of education, yet the manner in which they present it is so outdated and systematic (almost machine-like) that I just can't get anything into my head.
I try really hard not to cheat, but sometimes I feel like some cheating isn't as bad as others. E.g, we have chemistry tests at the end of each module, and these are only internal things - they don't contribute towards your final grade - but we also have chemistry coursework that happens once a year. This does contribute towards your final grade. I would be fine asking other students what was on the internal tests so I know what specific things to revise, but I wouldn't do it for the coursework.
Oh, I just remembered something.
In 5th grade my best friend wanted me to tell him some answers, mid biology exam.
Of course, I said no. I had prepared, after all, he had not, and I didn't want to risk it.
So, he just looked over my shoulder and I couldn't stop him.
Of course, he didn't only copy correct answers - he copied mistakes as well. The teacher noticed this while grading and we both got an F and detention.
Why both?
We were blaming each other and they couldn't figure out who it was :D
This is why I'm disappointed in the present state of our education system. It's not about learning anymore. Clearly you picked up on some wisdom somewhere along the lines, because you are one of the wisest RUclipsrs I know. Up there with Ze Frank.
I think when I was younger I could justify when I would cheat. Like if it was just a quiz and not a major test, or if it was a class I didn't care about and wouldn't be a part of my life in the long run.
I can honestly say I haven't cheated that I can recall, I woulden't even just give my friends answers in middle school, rather I tried to take them throught the steps to find the answeres themselves.
I actually never thought of cheating because I didn't care about what my parents wanted and most of the teachers were pity-graders with overcrowded classrooms and easy buttons to push. The only teacher who actually cared in high school gave me an "F". Seriously, I put that teacher's name in for an award because he was the only one who actually cared whether I did the work well or on time (until I got to college).
notes sound good next to other notes, but I can understand, debate and talk about painting, sculpture and design until I'm blue in the face.
Expecting one education type to fit all is bunk. It's why Montessori schools are an alternative to traditional learning, it encourages differently from traditional school. I graduated from college and I still argue against formal education because I feel I could have been taught better. I could have been better motivated too.
you said it yourself when you stated that the purpose of school is to get good grades. I'm supposed to take classes that have nothing to do with my career but simply because it's a requirement. someone somewhere decided I needed this extra knowledge, even though I never ever apply it and never will. so, would it be bad or affect my morals or both me in the slightest to cheat in a class that has no meaning and is purely extra work for me? no. I cheat. in fact, I did the other day and got a good grade. do I cheat in classes that DO matter? probably not because I actually have something to gain, but even those classes sometimes offer something that doesn't correlate to what I need. it's pretty clear, at least to me, that schools are just teaching me for the tests, not for anything after it when I graduate.
Is it really that prevalent? I can't remember ever cheating on anything. Watching other people take my work pisses me off so much that I don't want to lose the moral high ground that allows me to despise them.
My AP European History Teacher once said, "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying."
I believe that he said that, not so much because he wanted to cheat on his exams, but more so that if we aren't exploring every avenue of success then we won't succeed as often.
The first time I tried to cheat was in 7th grade. It was poorly prepared and therefore I got caught instantly. I still remember the embarresment and the first time getting the lowest grade possible. (In germany that is a six, in english speaking countrys I believe it would have been an F)
I can't think of a specific time in school where I cheated. I'm sure there were a few passing moments in elementary and high school of sneaking a peak at the paper next to me, and correcting a few answers when we graded our own papers, but for the most part I avoided it. For the most part, I enjoy school and learning. I am also in college for writing, so cheating would mean plagerism, which I'm sort of terrified of.
Heh, I was one of those people who would rarely cheat, because I saw through how broken education system is already back in the middle school. So I didn't cheat because I had completely no care for grades whatsoever. And guess what - I got away with it, I have a more decent and fulfilling job than most of my friends who finished college.
The worst part is that there's no way to not cheat without knowingly giving everyone around you an unfair advantage. If cheaters never win, I don't want to know what happens to non-cheaters.
I never cheated in exams. Ever. Algo I am always a little disturbed or upset when people confess this kind of thing to me. I think the point of tests is to know if you truly understood the subject. And there are good and poorly prepared exams. I think maybe what has to change is how you measure knowledge and for what purpose, going beyond the quest for a good grade.
i never cheat during exam. But im so pissed off when the cheaters get a better grade than me. i work hard to get good grades. it not fair.
zakaria haimeur I cheat, have a 4.0, I have no regrets.
Thue Morse is that good?
Life is a shit fest of "not fair". Where did you learn that it was??? You should be working hard and get yourself good grades because that's your shit, regardless of how everyone else is getting by.
zakaria haimeur maybe it's because the meaning of the grade is that you have had a good result, not put any effort in it. Maybe tests reward people who are skilled at cheating- because it *is* a skill
I have, and nothing bad has come of it aside from my own conciousness bringing it up again and again.
But that makes me wonder: what if I had not been set up to feel that way?
Are there people who have different sets of morals so that when they do something I would consider bad (regardless of necessary, unnecessary, called for, etc.) that they are so different that they do not even consider what they are doing except that they examine how to accomplish their goal?
Example: people who get golden parachutes, or bailouts, or politicians who ruin lives. I think that these people don't actually think in the same terms that the major population do. I think that maybe they are raised so differently that their inner morals and outer ethics are so alien that they do not truly feel bad about things that "normal" people would feel bad about.
Furthermore, if these people continually cheat (or break normative codes of conduct in other ways) and they live long enough to die of old age, then they will feel completely fulfilled and they will never pay for what they did (if there isn't more to life and death than atheistic materialism).
I think cheaters can and do prosper, and they are some of the most powerful people in the world.
I sat next to A graders to get better grades in middle school. I neglected my own talents and furthered my academic training in the fields of said peers with priding myself with the results. I did not get far with that, it was take those students half an hour for what would take me 3.
Today I nurture my own natures and actively shake of that mental and emotional baggage from that charade.
I haven't cheated like Nerdwriter but I and guilty of infidelity and pride.
I don't cheat for selfish reasons. I really want to see how much I know. Have I considered cheating? Hell yes, especially when a unit (depending where you live: credit/module) has cost me over a thousand to do, and failing would mean more $$. But ultimately I cannot look back on something, like my bachelor degree, knowing that 'I' did not achieve this, that someone had to do my work to get there.