This concept also works really well with scales! Every major scale has a “symmetrical” counterpart - it’s just the scale that has the same number of the opposite accidental. For example, A major has three sharps, so its “mirror” scale is Eb major (3 flats). You can practice the exact same fingerings and motions in both hands by playing A major in your right hand and Eb in your left, playing in contrary motion around a mirror note (D or Ab). Very efficient way to get fluent with scales, and more interesting than the typical up-and-down patterns.
An even more interesting thing is that if you take the chord A major, find it’s symmetrical chord which is C minor, you get the symmetrical scale of A major; because C minor is the relative minor of E♭.
It easiest to view it on bass clef, because the middle line of D. everything is symmetrical above and below. F# above inverts to Bb below. Modes: D Dorian above is D Dorian below. C major scale inverts to E phrygian. F lydian inverts to B locrian. G mixolydian inverted is A aeolian.
Now that you say that I recall that in my teens my classical teacher was trying a bit to get me to do those, so it seems like it is reasonably standard in classical training?
Excellent demonstration, but I am left wondering what the benefits of doing this are. No doubt there are some, but they are not explained? Developing the left hand can also be done by playing multi-voiced music, e.g. the Bach inventions and sinfonias.
I was also wondering, same question. I guess it will be explained in more detail in the premium course. Which is fine, but a couple more summarasing sentences of the benefits would have been helpful to get a feeling of what this can do.
He mentioned that most pieces are more demanding of the right hand, so if you just play most pieces your left hand will be underdeveloped. This way, you can use the symmetrical version of a song that’s demanding of the right hand to improve the dexterity and technique of the left.
Yes! I fondly remember Marc-André explaining symmetrical inversion on the Japanese SuperVirtuoso documentary. That documentary was an absolute cult classic in the online Pianophile community - and was pretty hard to find until it surfaced on RUclips!
@@tonebasePiano His knowledge of the piano repertoire is phenomenal - I discovered so many amazing composers from his recordings. I really wish more famous pianists would use their platform to promote lesser-known composers like Alkan, Medtner, Feinberg etc. like he does. The thing I admire about his choices of repertoire is that it is never 'obscure for the sake of obscure' - he unearths only the pure gold - I am sure he has sightread through thousands upon thousands of mediocre works and only shares with us the music he thinks truly deserves a spotlight.
@@MofosOfMetalYou might be interested in Artur Cimirro’s performances! He’s also a supervirtuoso and has somehow found even more obscure works than Hamelin has haha.
Amazing get. I will watch all things Hamelin. He has such an incredible intellect and knowledge of all things piano, and I really hope he bottles as much of it as possible for the rest of us to absorb.
There's a lot more on the way, and also I hope it's not the last time we work together. For a man of his world-historic talent, he's extraordinarily humble.
If I’m not misremembering, Chick Corea also endorsed this practice technique. It’s a wonderful way to practice, and one can indeed find musical value in it as well, as Bartók did, and you can also pick any note as a mirror (though this of course will lead to completely different fingerings between the hands), and one can also use a note in between the cracks of the piano (a quarter tone). But I’m merely a guitar player, so these are not things that I am adept at doing by any means.
Yes, Chick Corea mentioned this on video a few times. I think he said he got it originally from the Rossamandi technical method, as taught by his first teacher Salvatore Sullo.
Wow, I never imagined to see a piano course by Hamelin on the internet...great stuff! The concept of symmetrical inversion is actually pretty obvious once it's been described, but it's easily missed because it requires you to separate out the musical component of piano playing from the purely mechanical component. It's one of those things which is probably more likely to be discovered by a child learning the piano for the first time than a pianist with years of playing under their belt, because it's in those early learning stages that so much focus is placed on the mechanical.
A video of MAH teaching piano?!? Am i dreaming?! To my knowledge, he has never given masterclasses or taught students officially, this makes me feel even more privileged while watching this video.
Agreed (although his name is spelled "Persichetti"). They are fantastic, interesting music as well as being technically useful. There is also a sonata by Persichetti using this technique, as well as a beginner's collection called "Little Mirror Book".
"Of course it's going to sound weird. But the music is not really the, um, the point here." Me after my mom asks to hear what I've been practicing during the week that I didn't practice...
He has excellent technical skills, but not as perfect as Volodos, Kocsis or Argerich. He is a quality musician however was never able to create legendary interpretations of the classical repertoire, but rather shine in less known musics, as Alkan or Busoni. He is performing a great career and plays everywhere, so he is very well rated, is just that he never got the aura of a great interpreter. I can't think of any work by Bach, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann or Chopin were when listening to Hamelin I felt "this is the only way such can be played, it is so convincing and inspired". It's good and well played. A much respected and talented pianist which put a lot of work to bring to the light many musics probably unjustly forgotten. And also very good arranger with many funny additions, then a decent composer.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I disagree with him not being as technically proficient as Argerich, though she plays with a greater depth of emotion in my opinion. I think Hamelin, Volodos, and Katsaris are the most technically gifted pianists of our era.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I have to respectfully disagree with you, and also your comment proves my point. His cadenza for the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is one of the most awe inspiring compositions/feats of technical wizardry ever put to the piano. His humble nature, quiet attitude, and lack of flash is why he is so under-appreciated -- not the reasons that you mentioned. But again, this is only my opinion, and I respect your opinion as well.
@@Paroles_et_Musique sorry but I disagree Argerich Kocsis and Volodos although all Great techniques dont have quite as good as H amelin I'm a pianist and have studied thousands of hours of all their playing and have come to that conclusion. Although you're obviously allowed your opinion Of course you're forgetting katsaris and Sokolov. Even Pletnev among many others
🎹 It's a really helpful technique not just to develop your left hand, but to learn any difficult passage in a more solid way. The right hand may also benefit :) For instance, my left hand is better in big leaps, and the right hand learns from it the wrist position and hand/arm movements when "taking off, flying, landing". And sometimes I even discover, to my surprise, that a certain passage where I supposed my right hand to be better - is, in fact, easier for the left hand in symmetrical inversion. In any case, in difficult cases I usually find that trying to exercise the other hand symmetrically (together and separately) makes it easier afterwards for the target hand. Bingo ))
Thank you for finally getting maestro Hamelin! I practice symmetrical inversions for pretty much every piece I learn. Easily one of the best practice methods ever. Very glad Hamelin decided to tell more people about it.
@@Toutuu98 the hemispheres are the brain are crosswired, symmetrical inversion trains areas of the brain which normally wouldn’t be used. So if you have a hard passage for the right hand, translating it over to the left improves how well you can play the right in a way you normally never could.
@@Toutuu98I’ll add on that there are sometimes useful/colorful notes embedded in otherwise taken-for-granted left hand passages that this technique will help develop & bring out with richness.
@@Toutuu98 Definitely don't dismiss anything Hamelin says when it comes to piano! He is a prodigy and always had a lot of talent, but his technique is the greatest of all time because he worked very deliberately to master the instrument. Your son will benefit greatly from symmetrical inversion, maybe eventually he'll even be playing Hamelin's etudes!
@@Toutuu98 Another thing this does- M A H mentioned this can sound 'weird' - however the weirdness can inspire in another sense the possibility of being creative - of coming across patterns of sound for further improvisation and/or composition - which would be my question to Mr Hamelin - to what extent has this practice endeavor helped your composing?
Since you seem to know more about this: I have difficulties in playing left hand jump bases (basetone + chord), for instance in Chopins Nocturne Op 9 No. 2 - the chords go up to Bb1, how do I practice that with inversion without crossing my hands?
I'm not one for hyperbole, but in my opinion getting him to do an online course for your channel is like getting Vladimir Horowitz to do that if he were alive today.
I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but... for me, after more than 45 years of daily practice at the piano - This is once again, another diversion from a regular practice routine that will send you down a path of wasted time and effort for all but the few players that revel in (as Mr. Hamelin himself says at 5:54) unnatural - and again in my opinion - sour tonalities of mirrored counterpoint based solely on the aesthetics of the keyboard? for younger players, take the time spent on this and watch a good episode of Dragon Ball instead. For intermediate players, there are far better methods to improve your left hand. For those who us who worship the masters of technique like Mr Hamelin, - and I do; be careful of distractions, sometimes that's all they are.
I'll never understand why "Russian" scales with their contrary motion component is not the standard for scale practice. It gets extra interesting when you do scales in 10ths also in the Russian style.
By the way, I try to do everything with right and left hand alike, for instance brushing teeth, just to develop the weaker hand too. There are other things in the bathroom which I used to do with only one hand which I don't want to describe here in greater detail, but I do these things also with the other hand too now. Also mounting a bicycle, there is a well developed side to swing my body on a bike and another one which is being developed at present ... and so on. It is good for our brain to do everything this and that way. // By the way, this professor in the video is a wonderful man.
Yes, Hamelin specifically mentioned how he learnt about this technique from Ganz's exercise book, when he brought up the same topic in the Supervirtuoso documentary.
I have practiced scales and was aware of the importance of training my left hand BUT never actually thought of the 2 keys as center points, not to mention converting musical pieces into "symmetrical inversion "! Marc-Andre is not only a genius in finding great value in "minute things," but making the ideas seem "simple" so that everyone can understand and get into "practice "! Thank you for the invaluable video!
Despite not being the most tech-savvy man, Hamelin’s presence on the internet is easily one of the most important things in the online community of piano music. He’s given so, so much of his artistry to the internet, and that’s because he’s a true champion of obscure - and still wonderful - music. I’m happy to see that he’s collaborated with y’all and continuing to provide us with so much.
Very much fun with this methods ! But I cannot believe this ! We are humans and not technical perfect machines. You can understand the important difference here ?
@@ulrichraisch3437 I think you misunderstood my comment. When I say Hamelin is not “tech-savvy,” I mean he is not very good with technology 😅 His techniques are very good!!
@@Varooooooom : And not only better tecnology, but better ideas for example from " master poetry ". If someone has no content to talk for example from " master poetry ", fast fingers and indepedent hands will not help for that missing content - and will not move emotions ! I hope You can understand now ?
Nothing new here, at least for me. The great pianist Stanley Cowell explained the mirror concept to me many years ago and I've been using it in my improvisation (sparingly) ever since. However, what Bach wrote is so perfect that I wouldn't want to mess it up.
Great video, thank you all so much 🙏 There is somewhere in the tube a Chick's Corea video teaching the same concept. Barry Harris something similar, and probably Bill Evans Too. And Collier. But Hamelin does it an stratosferic level! And beautifully. Not so weird the left hand inversions... well, it's Bach after all ;)
We use the same technique in track and field, at least in the throwing events. Try going through all the footwork for putting the shot or throwing discus, but do it 'backwards' with your non-dominant hand, and somehow your good arm feels much more at ease. I never thought of doing the same thing on the piano.
But it doesn't sound musical. Why do we need to invest our time while there are so much good materials to do with good musical effect? If is needed, we can practice some difficult passages for left hand only.
Marc's technique is so virtuosic that sometimes it works against him. His arpeggios can sound like chordal washes due to his speed, and nothing sounds hard to play under his fingers. At times it comes across as lacking emotion to me.
It's a clever suggestion; but you can get a lot of the same benefit by just practicing Bach's fugues, which rarely demote the left hand to an oom-pah-pah. And at the same time you are playing real music! (No slight intended, of course, to the great Hamelin!)
This comment shows a trend in social media that I find interesting… One of the greatest pianist on earth gives insight into how he practices and challenges his technique, then some random person on RUclips makes a reductive statement, 1 day after the video, on how they think this experts advice could be simplified. I saw Hamelin live when I studied at the Orford Arts Academy when he played the music of Alkan, and it was earth-shatteringly good! Anyone who sees him live is well-aware you are watching something VERY special. Maybe instead of commenting what you think, you could try it for 6-12 months, and you would form a deeper understanding on why/how this is different from simply playing Bach fugues.
I also find interesting this tendency most people have to only hear advice when it’s from a consecrated person, rather to listening to what they are actually saying and valuing the truth in a person’s speech, regardless of their being “a random person” or one full of medals.
@@carlaland9449 I’m not sure if you are referring to my statement, but you did quote me, and I normally don’t engage in these comment sections, but just to be clear, bc I think you missed something. I hear everyone out, I never simply listen to anyone based on awards, I try things out. If you read my statement, you would see I didn’t say anyone was wrong/right/better/worse; my issue is the way the original statement reduces/oversimplified the suggestion giving in the video. There are big differences in this approach and in playing Bach fugues, and to group these two together for simplicity sake, “by just playing Bach fugues” diminishes what each actually brings. I’ve had the best teachers in the world, and learned a ton from my students, and one important thing is to try things, without bias, search for why they are different/what they contribute, and see if you want to incorporate it into your routine…that can only be done by not diminishing any argument. Which takes us back to my original point.
I didn't know this way of practicing. But I was taught a related 'trick' in which 'the right hand teaches the left hand'. It consist in inverting the (left hand) difficult passage and playing it as the maestro showed and then remove the right hand, it seems magic but the left hand can play after this.
I was reading a book about russian pianists and Samuil Feinberg actually mentioned doing this as well. So it's a very good technique that has stood the test of time
I've actually practiced with symmetrical inversion when I started practicing Chopin's Op 10 No 2. I mostly wanted strength in the weak fingers of both hands, it was less about learning music and muscle training. Playing Bach for instance in this way would probably be a much more beneficial practice(and a hardcore one, since there is already so much complexity for both hands). Hand equality is a conplete myth for me. I try my best to practice in a balanced way but my right hand still dominates. It's at a point where playing hands together there are moments (like trilling in the left hand and playing the melody line in the right) when the right hand hogs all the focus in the brain from the left which is the exact opposite result I want.
This reminds me of Horowitz' lesson to Biron Janis (Harold Schoenberg): "Now I'm going to tell you my secret octave technique.... you do it from the wrist!" So now anybody can do it!
I studied with Rudolph’s nephew, Felix in Chicago, and he never talked about this particular practice method so this is the first time I’m hearing about it however, I am fortunate enough to have RG‘s exercise manual.
This looks really good. Thanks for doing these. Will consider your "Exercises for the Mind & Fingers" by Master Hamelin. I've used mirroring to finger left hand passages. By writing out the mirror of the left hand for the passage you'd like to finger for the right hand. You then finger the right hand mirrored image. Then transfer those fingerings to the left hand. Since your right hand is more intelligent in choosing natural fingerings. I use this for jazz lines too. For Ex., write out the mirror image of the Jazz standard Donna Lee. In all keys too. Then use the right hand mirrored manuscript to finger and transfer those to the left hand playing Donna Lee melody. And you will have a natural fingering that your less intelligent left hand would not find. While this seems tedious, even laborious, it may be the fastest way to achieving a technically sufficient, if not completely equal, left hand. It is very important and effectively useful to listen to the sound the right hand gets, and get that same crackling sound with the left hand. Reach over and play the left hand line with the right hand. Then notice how coordinated the right hand is in achieving the sound. And copy that too. The right hand becomes the teacher of the left.
I really don't think it sounds weird at all. But I'm not a musician, and find that trying to have music in my head is the most difficult part of learning the piano. Two reasons, I never played well with others in music class, never learned to harmonize with someone by singing. Second, I have a different soundtrack with tinnitus for decades. Shitty concert, but the tickets are free. Never need a walkman.
Thank you for this insight! As a violinist who also plays piano, I found the concept of equal development in both hands to be one of the largest hurdles in technique. Symmetrical inversion is a very nice way to both develop the hands in equal proportion and also improve the visualisation of the keyboard itself.
That is terrific. I was very fortunate that i had a wonderful piano teacher who made me do all my technical work for several years on a three to one ratio. As a result my left had was never inferior to my right.
This is a technique for physical movements rather than music. So how much of it you should do partly depends on the extent to which you can endure pianistic calisthenics. Nevertheless it can be definitely helpful and I reckon you can get a kind of psychological support from mirroring the hands and playing them together. My own favourite piece for this approach has long been Chopin Op 10 No 2. You can reflect the hands over D. My other comment is that in fact there are lots of difficult left hand passages but the main difficulties in the l h are not symmetrical to right hand difficulties since a lot of them involve stretches and leaps.
Years ago I learned the first part of Feux Follets RH (after the intro) mirrored in the left hand - trust me, it sounds VILE and it is no fun at all :) :) :)
Hummm. Mr. Hamelin is a brilliant pianist, no doubt about that. But I ask myself: What exactly is the benefit of this method? He says: The purpose is to train the left hand, which in his words is often "left in the dust". WHAT THE.... WHAT????? I think this is plain nonsense. There are TONS of piano literature out there where the left hand is doing the main work - most of Chopin's work actually, where the left hand is far more than a "simple accompanimental role". Another point which makes this technique useless is: What if you want to practice your left hand? What if you want to (or have to) study the "simple accompanimental" part, which in Chopin's, Beethoven's, Bach's or Mozart's cases is mostly anything else than "simple" - on the contrary, it's freakin' difficult! How do you practice those leaps and jumps, especially then they happen in the middle of the keyboard (which in most cases they do)?
I bet they could program a digital piano for symmetrical practice where the left hand would sound the same as the right and if you messed up with either hand you'd be able to know immediately
Good to know this is a thing! I've done this in the past with the Fantasy Impromptu, but it's not something I've seen discussed before. Definitely a fun workout for an underpowered left hand.
Interesting! I would typically use this when I have a hard left-hand part by figuring out the symmetrical right hand part, feeling how my (much stronger) RH plays that, and then going for the same technique with my LH on the actual LH part.
I think that another good point in this might be of an overview of the geometrical patterns of piano and the relation to the music being played. Lots of people nowadays learn piano through the unconventional way, the Synthesia software (or things alike). I myself did that for years, and considering that I started at a late age with no proper teacher, it went pretty well. The geometry patterns indicates well the proportions used in music and also tackles finger technique and other things. I wonder if Hamelin is done with his Henle Rach 3, I'm ready to buy :)
Sometimes I’ll use this technique when I’m stumped for a left-hand fingering. I’ll play the mirror version in my right hand, and then the best fingering for the left hand usually becomes obvious.
Most pianists don't know all of the Chopin Nocturnes. Most pianists don't know [ insert whatever ] LOL! Most pianists don't know how to transpose perfectly on sight.
Marc is an amazing musician! But his remark "the music is not really the, um, the point here" is a bit puzzling. Is this all about technique? I didn't go to a conservatoire so I don't know about this sort of thing.
the more i learn chord theory the more i see most piano teaches destroy the art of keyboard by teaching middle C ugh. Teach middle D. The chords symmetry
Srsly tho, Hamelin probably would find a way to add something to a song like "Clocks." And I believe Chris Martin is very much "into" classical music so he probably would be thrilled to have Hamelin play.
This seems like it would be more trouble than it’s worth, figuring out which notes in the left hand are perfectly symmetrical with the right… I’m sure there are plenty of études geared specifically towards the left hand that may be more effective, both time-wise and musicality-wise. But I shall try this and see if it helps.
I was hoping he would go into compositions that actually use this concept. One that comes to mind (which Hamelin performed) is Kapustin's Sonata No 2 4th Movement.
I'm so excited to start this. I'm a self taught pianist and I've been wanting my left hand to catch up to my right. So I've been just practicing the same motions on my left. Now this concept will make things alot more interesting and "challenging" to get under my fingers. Can't wait to incorporate this in my practice routine.
A little bit unrelated with the topic. Hamelin has unusual long thumbs, which gives him GREAT benefits playing any of piano warhorses, from Liszt’s Don Juan transcription to Rach.3, effortlessly.
of course is going to sound weird.. music is not the point he says.. can´t believe the destruction of music..of muse, of inspiration.. this is so artificial.. anti musical.. mechanics with no virtue.. vulgar virtuosity, woody allen said when you can´t do something.. you teach it.. is unfair but sometimes applies.
Nothing new here. Joseph Schillinger called it a line of symmetry. It is the same as a mirror image. This guy surely didn't invent the concept. The line of symmetry allows one line to be expressed four different ways; Original, Inversion, Retrograde and Retrograde Inversion.
Movimiento simétrico es natural pues las manos son simétricas. La preponderancia se escucha que es la mano derecha y la izquierda hace su espejo. Es facil. Movimiento simetrico en las teclas, no en las tonalidades y armaduras. Mejor practica es movimiento paralelo linea de mano izquierda tocandola con las dos manos y al revés.
Wow... I've been playing piano for almost 20 years by now, having the keyboard under my eyes and nose almost everyday, I and never saw the keyboard with that perspective. I believe the reason is that we are introduced to the piano being taught to sit properly along the C4 (or C3) axis, which is the middle of the entire keyboard. Than we start practicing fingering from that C also being introduced to the scales concept. From that perspective it makes clear how a slight difference on the fundaments can even change things in ways that sometimes we can't even see something that is obvious, which in this case makes it pretty genius.
This concept also works really well with scales! Every major scale has a “symmetrical” counterpart - it’s just the scale that has the same number of the opposite accidental. For example, A major has three sharps, so its “mirror” scale is Eb major (3 flats). You can practice the exact same fingerings and motions in both hands by playing A major in your right hand and Eb in your left, playing in contrary motion around a mirror note (D or Ab). Very efficient way to get fluent with scales, and more interesting than the typical up-and-down patterns.
I never thought of that. That’s actually really interesting.
Merci beaucoup. I'll try it.
An even more interesting thing is that if you take the chord A major, find it’s symmetrical chord which is C minor, you get the symmetrical scale of A major; because C minor is the relative minor of E♭.
It easiest to view it on bass clef, because the middle line of D. everything is symmetrical above and below. F# above inverts to Bb below.
Modes: D Dorian above is D Dorian below. C major scale inverts to E phrygian. F lydian inverts to B locrian. G mixolydian inverted is A aeolian.
Now that you say that I recall that in my teens my classical teacher was trying a bit to get me to do those, so it seems like it is reasonably standard in classical training?
Excellent demonstration, but I am left wondering what the benefits of doing this are. No doubt there are some, but they are not explained? Developing the left hand can also be done by playing multi-voiced music, e.g. the Bach inventions and sinfonias.
I was also wondering, same question. I guess it will be explained in more detail in the premium course. Which is fine, but a couple more summarasing sentences of the benefits would have been helpful to get a feeling of what this can do.
He mentioned that most pieces are more demanding of the right hand, so if you just play most pieces your left hand will be underdeveloped. This way, you can use the symmetrical version of a song that’s demanding of the right hand to improve the dexterity and technique of the left.
Ever do Hanon exercises? It’s the same concept.
Yes! I fondly remember Marc-André explaining symmetrical inversion on the Japanese SuperVirtuoso documentary. That documentary was an absolute cult classic in the online Pianophile community - and was pretty hard to find until it surfaced on RUclips!
That's where I first heard about it too. Consider this the updated remake of that scene! And there's a lot more on the way...
@@tonebasePiano His knowledge of the piano repertoire is phenomenal - I discovered so many amazing composers from his recordings. I really wish more famous pianists would use their platform to promote lesser-known composers like Alkan, Medtner, Feinberg etc. like he does.
The thing I admire about his choices of repertoire is that it is never 'obscure for the sake of obscure' - he unearths only the pure gold - I am sure he has sightread through thousands upon thousands of mediocre works and only shares with us the music he thinks truly deserves a spotlight.
@@MofosOfMetalYou might be interested in Artur Cimirro’s performances! He’s also a supervirtuoso and has somehow found even more obscure works than Hamelin has haha.
Yeah, we all remember too that stupid japanese journalist nodding with stupid awe at every (intelligent) word of Marc-André.... 😏
@@69EBubu good god you sound annoying
Amazing get. I will watch all things Hamelin. He has such an incredible intellect and knowledge of all things piano, and I really hope he bottles as much of it as possible for the rest of us to absorb.
There's a lot more on the way, and also I hope it's not the last time we work together. For a man of his world-historic talent, he's extraordinarily humble.
If I’m not misremembering, Chick Corea also endorsed this practice technique. It’s a wonderful way to practice, and one can indeed find musical value in it as well, as Bartók did, and you can also pick any note as a mirror (though this of course will lead to completely different fingerings between the hands), and one can also use a note in between the cracks of the piano (a quarter tone). But I’m merely a guitar player, so these are not things that I am adept at doing by any means.
Yes, Chick Corea mentioned this on video a few times. I think he said he got it originally from the Rossamandi technical method, as taught by his first teacher Salvatore Sullo.
@@tenorman1971 Many thanks! I'll surely look into it...
Yep
Also Vincent persichetti put out a book of technical exercises based on the concept.
Facts
Wow, I never imagined to see a piano course by Hamelin on the internet...great stuff!
The concept of symmetrical inversion is actually pretty obvious once it's been described, but it's easily missed because it requires you to separate out the musical component of piano playing from the purely mechanical component. It's one of those things which is probably more likely to be discovered by a child learning the piano for the first time than a pianist with years of playing under their belt, because it's in those early learning stages that so much focus is placed on the mechanical.
Oh hi!
A video of MAH teaching piano?!? Am i dreaming?! To my knowledge, he has never given masterclasses or taught students officially, this makes me feel even more privileged while watching this video.
For those interested in symmetrical inversion I highly recommend Vincent Persichetti’s Reflective Keyboard Studies and Mirror Etudes.
Agreed (although his name is spelled "Persichetti"). They are fantastic, interesting music as well as being technically useful. There is also a sonata by Persichetti using this technique, as well as a beginner's collection called "Little Mirror Book".
@@alkanista Thanks, fixed the typo. 🙂
I like the idea. If you took MIDI nodes and mirrored them around D or Ab, you could get the intended notes, which is better for feedback.
"Of course it's going to sound weird. But the music is not really the, um, the point here."
Me after my mom asks to hear what I've been practicing during the week that I didn't practice...
Hamelin is one of the most underrated and under-celebrated piano virtuosos of all time.
He has excellent technical skills, but not as perfect as Volodos, Kocsis or Argerich. He is a quality musician however was never able to create legendary interpretations of the classical repertoire, but rather shine in less known musics, as Alkan or Busoni. He is performing a great career and plays everywhere, so he is very well rated, is just that he never got the aura of a great interpreter. I can't think of any work by Bach, Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann or Chopin were when listening to Hamelin I felt "this is the only way such can be played, it is so convincing and inspired". It's good and well played.
A much respected and talented pianist which put a lot of work to bring to the light many musics probably unjustly forgotten. And also very good arranger with many funny additions, then a decent composer.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I think he is one of the greatest pianist-composer alive
@@Paroles_et_Musique I disagree with him not being as technically proficient as Argerich, though she plays with a greater depth of emotion in my opinion. I think Hamelin, Volodos, and Katsaris are the most technically gifted pianists of our era.
@@Paroles_et_Musique I have to respectfully disagree with you, and also your comment proves my point. His cadenza for the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is one of the most awe inspiring compositions/feats of technical wizardry ever put to the piano. His humble nature, quiet attitude, and lack of flash is why he is so under-appreciated -- not the reasons that you mentioned. But again, this is only my opinion, and I respect your opinion as well.
@@Paroles_et_Musique sorry but I disagree Argerich Kocsis and Volodos although all Great techniques dont have quite as good as H amelin I'm a pianist and have studied thousands of hours of all their playing and have come to that conclusion. Although you're obviously allowed your opinion
Of course you're forgetting katsaris and Sokolov. Even Pletnev among many others
🎹 It's a really helpful technique not just to develop your left hand, but to learn any difficult passage in a more solid way. The right hand may also benefit :)
For instance, my left hand is better in big leaps, and the right hand learns from it the wrist position and hand/arm movements when "taking off, flying, landing". And sometimes I even discover, to my surprise, that a certain passage where I supposed my right hand to be better - is, in fact, easier for the left hand in symmetrical inversion. In any case, in difficult cases I usually find that trying to exercise the other hand symmetrically (together and separately) makes it easier afterwards for the target hand. Bingo ))
If U got the time to waste then try this...
Totally agree!
Symmetric inversion has been very helpful for me to figure out proper and optimal hand movements
Thank you for finally getting maestro Hamelin! I practice symmetrical inversions for pretty much every piece I learn. Easily one of the best practice methods ever. Very glad Hamelin decided to tell more people about it.
@@Toutuu98 the hemispheres are the brain are crosswired, symmetrical inversion trains areas of the brain which normally wouldn’t be used. So if you have a hard passage for the right hand, translating it over to the left improves how well you can play the right in a way you normally never could.
@@Toutuu98I’ll add on that there are sometimes useful/colorful notes embedded in otherwise taken-for-granted left hand passages that this technique will help develop & bring out with richness.
@@Toutuu98 Definitely don't dismiss anything Hamelin says when it comes to piano! He is a prodigy and always had a lot of talent, but his technique is the greatest of all time because he worked very deliberately to master the instrument.
Your son will benefit greatly from symmetrical inversion, maybe eventually he'll even be playing Hamelin's etudes!
@@Toutuu98 Another thing this does- M A H mentioned this can sound 'weird' - however the weirdness can inspire in another sense the possibility of being creative - of coming across patterns of sound for further improvisation and/or composition - which would be my question to Mr Hamelin - to what extent has this practice endeavor helped your composing?
Since you seem to know more about this: I have difficulties in playing left hand jump bases (basetone + chord), for instance in Chopins Nocturne Op 9 No. 2 - the chords go up to Bb1, how do I practice that with inversion without crossing my hands?
And along the way you get lots of new compositions from schostakovich🤭🤪
I'm not one for hyperbole, but in my opinion getting him to do an online course for your channel is like getting Vladimir Horowitz to do that if he were alive today.
I mean, I could ofc practice symmetrical inversion, but it doesn't sound fun. Does anyone here include this in his/her daily practice?
I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but... for me, after more than 45 years of daily practice at the piano - This is once again, another diversion from a regular practice routine that will send you down a path of wasted time and effort for all but the few players that revel in (as Mr. Hamelin himself says at 5:54) unnatural - and again in my opinion - sour tonalities of mirrored counterpoint based solely on the aesthetics of the keyboard? for younger players, take the time spent on this and watch a good episode of Dragon Ball instead. For intermediate players, there are far better methods to improve your left hand. For those who us who worship the masters of technique like Mr Hamelin, - and I do; be careful of distractions, sometimes that's all they are.
I'll never understand why "Russian" scales with their contrary motion component is not the standard for scale practice. It gets extra interesting when you do scales in 10ths also in the Russian style.
By the way, I try to do everything with right and left hand alike, for instance brushing teeth, just to develop the weaker hand too. There are other things in the bathroom which I used to do with only one hand which I don't want to describe here in greater detail, but I do these things also with the other hand too now. Also mounting a bicycle, there is a well developed side to swing my body on a bike and another one which is being developed at present ... and so on. It is good for our brain to do everything this and that way. // By the way, this professor in the video is a wonderful man.
It is an idea that was already developed by Rudolph Ganz (1877-1972). I can really recommend his exercises.
Yes, Hamelin specifically mentioned how he learnt about this technique from Ganz's exercise book, when he brought up the same topic in the Supervirtuoso documentary.
Finally masterclasses with hamelin. He is the greatest!
Visually two sides are symetrical, but the key weights are not.
I have practiced scales and was aware of the importance of training my left hand BUT never actually thought of the 2 keys as center points, not to mention converting musical pieces into "symmetrical inversion "! Marc-Andre is not only a genius in finding great value in "minute things," but making the ideas seem "simple" so that everyone can understand and get into "practice "!
Thank you for the invaluable video!
Hold up, you aren't lying. I've been so stuck with looking at C that I never realized it's symetrical about D. Thanks for the perspective.
Despite not being the most tech-savvy man, Hamelin’s presence on the internet is easily one of the most important things in the online community of piano music. He’s given so, so much of his artistry to the internet, and that’s because he’s a true champion of obscure - and still wonderful - music. I’m happy to see that he’s collaborated with y’all and continuing to provide us with so much.
Very much fun with this methods ! But I cannot believe this !
We are humans and not technical perfect machines.
You can understand the important difference here ?
@@ulrichraisch3437 I think you misunderstood my comment. When I say Hamelin is not “tech-savvy,” I mean he is not very good with technology 😅 His techniques are very good!!
@@Varooooooom :
Sophisticated, I think.
His technique to practise with " symmetrical inversion " is a time killer.
My opinion !
@@ulrichraisch3437 When you determine a better way to develop the left hand’s technique, let me know!
@@Varooooooom :
And not only better tecnology, but better ideas for example from " master poetry ".
If someone has no content to talk for example from " master poetry ",
fast fingers and indepedent hands will not help for that missing content -
and will not move emotions !
I hope You can understand now ?
it's not true that left hand is less developed. MUSICALLY SPEAKING, hands develop in different ways. left hand has much more endurance!!!!
Hamelin's re-creation of the Chopin-Godowsky-(Hamelin) "Triple Etude" is so much fun! What a technique! What a mind!
This makes Isidor Philippe’s exercises look like Mary Had a Little Lamb!
phenomenal stuff….
Nothing new here, at least for me. The great pianist Stanley Cowell explained the mirror concept to me many years ago and I've been using it in my improvisation (sparingly) ever since.
However, what Bach wrote is so perfect that I wouldn't want to mess it up.
Great video, thank you all so much 🙏
There is somewhere in the tube a Chick's Corea video teaching the same concept. Barry Harris something similar, and probably Bill Evans Too. And Collier. But Hamelin does it an stratosferic level!
And beautifully. Not so weird the left hand inversions... well, it's Bach after all ;)
We use the same technique in track and field, at least in the throwing events. Try going through all the footwork for putting the shot or throwing discus, but do it 'backwards' with your non-dominant hand, and somehow your good arm feels much more at ease. I never thought of doing the same thing on the piano.
so is there a free choice between the axis? when you use d and when a-flat?
I wondered the same thing.
It’s great to see Marc-André Hamelin speak - and share this fun technical treat - after years of being a fan of playing. Thanks!
I came to know Hamelin from his complete Scriabin sonatas on Hyperion mamy many years ago and I instantly thought he's a music genius
But it doesn't sound musical. Why do we need to invest our time while there are so much good materials to do with good musical effect? If is needed, we can practice some difficult passages for left hand only.
i't does not need to be musical
Negative melody anyone?
Marc's technique is so virtuosic that sometimes it works against him. His arpeggios can sound like chordal washes due to his speed, and nothing sounds hard to play under his fingers. At times it comes across as lacking emotion to me.
It's a clever suggestion; but you can get a lot of the same benefit by just practicing Bach's fugues, which rarely demote the left hand to an oom-pah-pah. And at the same time you are playing real music! (No slight intended, of course, to the great Hamelin!)
My thoughts excrly!
Exactly I meant ha!
This comment shows a trend in social media that I find interesting… One of the greatest pianist on earth gives insight into how he practices and challenges his technique, then some random person on RUclips makes a reductive statement, 1 day after the video, on how they think this experts advice could be simplified. I saw Hamelin live when I studied at the Orford Arts Academy when he played the music of Alkan, and it was earth-shatteringly good! Anyone who sees him live is well-aware you are watching something VERY special. Maybe instead of commenting what you think, you could try it for 6-12 months, and you would form a deeper understanding on why/how this is different from simply playing Bach fugues.
I also find interesting this tendency most people have to only hear advice when it’s from a consecrated person, rather to listening to what they are actually saying and valuing the truth in a person’s speech, regardless of their being “a random person” or one full of medals.
@@carlaland9449 I’m not sure if you are referring to my statement, but you did quote me, and I normally don’t engage in these comment sections, but just to be clear, bc I think you missed something. I hear everyone out, I never simply listen to anyone based on awards, I try things out. If you read my statement, you would see I didn’t say anyone was wrong/right/better/worse; my issue is the way the original statement reduces/oversimplified the suggestion giving in the video. There are big differences in this approach and in playing Bach fugues, and to group these two together for simplicity sake, “by just playing Bach fugues” diminishes what each actually brings. I’ve had the best teachers in the world, and learned a ton from my students, and one important thing is to try things, without bias, search for why they are different/what they contribute, and see if you want to incorporate it into your routine…that can only be done by not diminishing any argument. Which takes us back to my original point.
I didn't know this way of practicing. But I was taught a related 'trick' in which 'the right hand teaches the left hand'. It consist in inverting the (left hand) difficult passage and playing it as the maestro showed and then remove the right hand, it seems magic but the left hand can play after this.
I was reading a book about russian pianists and Samuil Feinberg actually mentioned doing this as well. So it's a very good technique that has stood the test of time
I believe Cecil Taylor used this technique too in his improvisations and/or compositions. Sounds like it anyway. Great practice for improvisers.
I've actually practiced with symmetrical inversion when I started practicing Chopin's Op 10 No 2. I mostly wanted strength in the weak fingers of both hands, it was less about learning music and muscle training. Playing Bach for instance in this way would probably be a much more beneficial practice(and a hardcore one, since there is already so much complexity for both hands). Hand equality is a conplete myth for me. I try my best to practice in a balanced way but my right hand still dominates. It's at a point where playing hands together there are moments (like trilling in the left hand and playing the melody line in the right) when the right hand hogs all the focus in the brain from the left which is the exact opposite result I want.
For trill in one hand and melody in the other, try Bach's G major two part invention which has both.
This reminds me of Horowitz' lesson to Biron Janis (Harold Schoenberg): "Now I'm going to tell you my secret octave technique.... you do it from the wrist!"
So now anybody can do it!
As a grand student of Rudolph Ganz, I approve this message!
I studied with Rudolph’s nephew, Felix in Chicago, and he never talked about this particular practice method so this is the first time I’m hearing about it however, I am fortunate enough to have RG‘s exercise manual.
This looks really good. Thanks for doing these. Will consider your "Exercises for the Mind & Fingers" by Master Hamelin. I've used mirroring to finger left hand passages. By writing out the mirror of the left hand for the passage you'd like to finger for the right hand. You then finger the right hand mirrored image. Then transfer those fingerings to the left hand. Since your right hand is more intelligent in choosing natural fingerings. I use this for jazz lines too. For Ex., write out the mirror image of the Jazz standard Donna Lee. In all keys too. Then use the right hand mirrored manuscript to finger and transfer those to the left hand playing Donna Lee melody. And you will have a natural fingering that your less intelligent left hand would not find. While this seems tedious, even laborious, it may be the fastest way to achieving a technically sufficient, if not completely equal, left hand. It is very important and effectively useful to listen to the sound the right hand gets, and get that same crackling sound with the left hand. Reach over and play the left hand line with the right hand. Then notice how coordinated the right hand is in achieving the sound. And copy that too. The right hand becomes the teacher of the left.
Interesting
I really don't think it sounds weird at all. But I'm not a musician, and find that trying to have music in my head is the most difficult part of learning the piano. Two reasons, I never played well with others in music class, never learned to harmonize with someone by singing. Second, I have a different soundtrack with tinnitus for decades. Shitty concert, but the tickets are free. Never need a walkman.
Great content. I used to do this with Chopin's op. 25 n°6 with the thirds. Thats how i though my left hand to do thirds. Keep up with this videos!
But it sounds terrible!
Thank you for this insight! As a violinist who also plays piano, I found the concept of equal development in both hands to be one of the largest hurdles in technique. Symmetrical inversion is a very nice way to both develop the hands in equal proportion and also improve the visualisation of the keyboard itself.
That is terrific. I was very fortunate that i had a wonderful piano teacher who made me do all my technical work for several years on a three to one ratio. As a result my left had was never inferior to my right.
This is a technique for physical movements rather than music. So how much of it you should do partly depends on the extent to which you can endure pianistic calisthenics. Nevertheless it can be definitely helpful and I reckon you can get a kind of psychological support from mirroring the hands and playing them together. My own favourite piece for this approach has long been Chopin Op 10 No 2. You can reflect the hands over D.
My other comment is that in fact there are lots of difficult left hand passages but the main difficulties in the l h are not symmetrical to right hand difficulties since a lot of them involve stretches and leaps.
Years ago I learned the first part of Feux Follets RH (after the intro) mirrored in the left hand - trust me, it sounds VILE and it is no fun at all :) :) :)
Saw him in Chicago last week, the Dukas and Hammerklavier were well received
Can’t wait to try this with Hamelin Etude No.7!
Hummm.
Mr. Hamelin is a brilliant pianist, no doubt about that. But I ask myself: What exactly is the benefit of this method?
He says: The purpose is to train the left hand, which in his words is often "left in the dust".
WHAT THE.... WHAT?????
I think this is plain nonsense. There are TONS of piano literature out there where the left hand is doing the main work - most of Chopin's work actually, where the left hand is far more than a "simple accompanimental role".
Another point which makes this technique useless is: What if you want to practice your left hand? What if you want to (or have to) study the "simple accompanimental" part, which in Chopin's, Beethoven's, Bach's or Mozart's cases is mostly anything else than "simple" - on the contrary, it's freakin' difficult!
How do you practice those leaps and jumps, especially then they happen in the middle of the keyboard (which in most cases they do)?
I bet they could program a digital piano for symmetrical practice where the left hand would sound the same as the right and if you messed up with either hand you'd be able to know immediately
Good to know this is a thing! I've done this in the past with the Fantasy Impromptu, but it's not something I've seen discussed before. Definitely a fun workout for an underpowered left hand.
Interesting! I would typically use this when I have a hard left-hand part by figuring out the symmetrical right hand part, feeling how my (much stronger) RH plays that, and then going for the same technique with my LH on the actual LH part.
A 3.52 son "Voilà" est exquis 😉
Pollini, Kissin and Martha Argerich have infinitely superior technique to Hamelin.
Amazing that you were able to speak with this living legend
I think that another good point in this might be of an overview of the geometrical patterns of piano and the relation to the music being played.
Lots of people nowadays learn piano through the unconventional way, the Synthesia software (or things alike). I myself did that for years, and considering that I started at a late age with no proper teacher, it went pretty well.
The geometry patterns indicates well the proportions used in music and also tackles finger technique and other things.
I wonder if Hamelin is done with his Henle Rach 3, I'm ready to buy :)
This was in Seymour Fink's technique book, wasn't it?
Sometimes I’ll use this technique when I’m stumped for a left-hand fingering. I’ll play the mirror version in my right hand, and then the best fingering for the left hand usually becomes obvious.
Most pianists don't know all of the Chopin Nocturnes.
Most pianists don't know [ insert whatever ]
LOL!
Most pianists don't know how to transpose perfectly on sight.
I think he'd make a great teacher when he's done performing and composing. He's got a lot of charisma and obviously his knowledge of music is immense.
He does in fact teach piano at New England Conservatory in Boston. Very hard to get in though!!
@@magnusstephensen4874 I didn't know that. I bet it is lol
hahahaha, this is terrific fun with chopin's 25/11 lol...take your dramamine first though
Marc is an amazing musician! But his remark "the music is not really the, um, the point here" is a bit puzzling. Is this all about technique? I didn't go to a conservatoire so I don't know about this sort of thing.
the more i learn chord theory the more i see most piano teaches destroy the art of keyboard by teaching middle C ugh. Teach middle D. The chords symmetry
Love to see this guy tackle some Coldplay. Really feel it could push his playing to the next level.
Srsly tho, Hamelin probably would find a way to add something to a song like "Clocks." And I believe Chris Martin is very much "into" classical music so he probably would be thrilled to have Hamelin play.
I’m remembering now that Chick Corea used to practice this, centering around middle D
Oh I see, this video is an ad. A 6-minute ad. Well, that one sneaked past my ad-blocker.
“The music is not the point here.” Find a silent keyboard and work on the gymnastics.
Ref. Borah Bergman's concert of mirror etudes that I read about in keyboard magazine thirty years ago or so.
When you learned all of the inverted etudes of Godowski/Chopin:
Marc -Andre
Thank you for sharing
Amazing advanced symmetrical Inversion
Idea and Techniques
GOD BLESS
Unmusical. I sometimes think that conservatory teachers have to come up with these things because they have gotten bored with the music. Or what?
I wonder if many left-handed people play the piano? And, if they do, is it different for them to learn compared to right-handed people?
Wow! That is so cool! I have a Master’s degree in Piano and never knew this! Thank you! I till try it!
Interesting for the technique, but awful for the music.
This seems like it would be more trouble than it’s worth, figuring out which notes in the left hand are perfectly symmetrical with the right… I’m sure there are plenty of études geared specifically towards the left hand that may be more effective, both time-wise and musicality-wise. But I shall try this and see if it helps.
It takes time to figure out at first but after a while you get used to it
Marc-HandsOfGod
Chick Corea famously said that this is not a musical solution, but a physical one.
I don't see the point of it if it sounds horrible. This should probably be a video about what to avoid doing.
He’s performing here in Montreal tomorrow. Yes!
Useful if you want to make yourself tone-deaf.
andre
I was hoping he would go into compositions that actually use this concept. One that comes to mind (which Hamelin performed) is Kapustin's Sonata No 2 4th Movement.
I wrote a piece using this technique last year called "Mirror". You can look it up on RUclips
I'm so excited to start this. I'm a self taught pianist and I've been wanting my left hand to catch up to my right. So I've been just practicing the same motions on my left.
Now this concept will make things alot more interesting and "challenging" to get under my fingers. Can't wait to incorporate this in my practice routine.
A little bit unrelated with the topic. Hamelin has unusual long thumbs, which gives him GREAT benefits playing any of piano warhorses, from Liszt’s Don Juan transcription to Rach.3, effortlessly.
HAMELIN HAMELIN HAMELIN HAMELIN HAMELIN HAMELIN
what's up with Canada pumping out the best pianists consistently?
of course is going to sound weird.. music is not the point he says..
can´t believe the destruction of music..of muse, of inspiration.. this is so artificial.. anti musical.. mechanics with no virtue.. vulgar virtuosity, woody allen said when you can´t do something.. you teach it.. is unfair but sometimes applies.
Nothing new here. Joseph Schillinger called it a line of symmetry. It is the same as a mirror image. This guy surely didn't invent the concept. The line of symmetry allows one line to be expressed four different ways; Original, Inversion, Retrograde and Retrograde Inversion.
Movimiento simétrico es natural pues las manos son simétricas. La preponderancia se escucha que es la mano derecha y la izquierda hace su espejo. Es facil. Movimiento simetrico en las teclas, no en las tonalidades y armaduras. Mejor practica es movimiento paralelo linea de mano izquierda tocandola con las dos manos y al revés.
I think there are ways to strengthen your left hand that don't sound terrible
Wouldn't it work to just play two octaves apart?
Wow... I've been playing piano for almost 20 years by now, having the keyboard under my eyes and nose almost everyday, I and never saw the keyboard with that perspective. I believe the reason is that we are introduced to the piano being taught to sit properly along the C4 (or C3) axis, which is the middle of the entire keyboard. Than we start practicing fingering from that C also being introduced to the scales concept. From that perspective it makes clear how a slight difference on the fundaments can even change things in ways that sometimes we can't even see something that is obvious, which in this case makes it pretty genius.
Classical musicians trying clickbaity titles is just so innocent and laughable, you won't believe what I think of them 😂
I can't believe it, I actually did not know this information! Mind blown, thanks.😊