The Tremere are the one clan that really feel like their internal cohesion makes sense in the setting. Things will happen with other clans like, the Brujah and Gangrel leave the Camarilla, and I find myself wondering, "what does that even mean? Some influential figures said it's over, but surely not everyone is on board with that. What does it even mean for the clan to belong to anything as a whole?" Not so with the Tremere. They've got that well defined social order within themselves, which makes them make sense as a bloc. If the Tremere ever left the Camarilla, I'd instantly feel the weight of that, and the Camarilla certainly would too. Although I guess they now also have the Banu Haqim to be their blood sorcerers.
This, right here, is why I loved the changes to v5. Just like you say, Clan cohesion is nowhere near as strong as in the Tremere, and while the Nosferatu certainly sympathize with each other on an abnormal level compared to other Kindred, the Tremere are by far the most well-organized and in-line. So with the "Vienna incident", the shake-up of V5 is just delightful to follow. Great insights, thanks for sharing them! ^^
After researching VtM since being away since the early 2000’s, I’m happy to see that at least the Tremere became one of the most powerful clans throughout the years.
Tremere has always been the most interesting clan socially to me. Having to work around the Pyramid and having an Antidiluvian (albeit a weak and young one) in charge of the clan makes for some pretty unique gameplay. Looking forward to seeing what you do next!
Hey, thanks! ^^ Yeah, the downside to the plot armour the Tremere had pre-v5 was that at least canonically they were very grouchy about people sharing their secrets and striking down on uppity anarchs and the like hard. It makes for interesting gameplay, for sure! Next video will be about the Anarch Revolt and I'm in the middle of some pretty heavy-duty research for it! :D After that, and the Convention of Thorns, my patreons voted for a pair of Tzimisce videos! :)
@@ThePrimogen I thought you were hinting at the Anarch Revolt at the end! That'll be very helpful for my Dark Ages game as we'll be playing through both revolts in all likelihood. Convention of Thorns will be interesting, I don't think I've read about it at all. Tzimisce will super cool as well, so far my favourite character in my campaign is a 5th Gen Tzimisce so it'll be good to learn anything I missed in the Clanbook!
@@Duskwalker68 I'll do my best to cover these events as well as I can. Most likely it will be a summary of things, but I know that Convention of Thorns is actually played out in the second Transylvania Chronicles so I'll be pulling lots of lore from there. I hope I'll provide helpful content! :D
\o/ I think I might too! Tremere was the first clan I played through VtM:B with (without cheating) and they're by far my favorite Camarilla clan! :D I'm watching your Tzimisce video now, I was gone the whole day yesterday so I couldn't. I'm loving it!
Each time I take a clan test I keep getting stuck in Tremere ( I suppose my neutrality on a lot of shit) even though I don't want to >_>. I was never fond of servitude or super strict rules.
Then I'm sure you'll love V5s take on them. You have House Carna or House Ipsissimus, neither of which are part of the Pyramid. And House Goratrix, I guess, but they're slightly more in touch with the Pyramid.
When you think about it, this recent phrase can embody the Clan if you are loose with the thought process: Shadow Wizard Money Gang, We LOVE Casting Spells. This song was sponsored by the Shadow Government They operate in the shadow of night, and technically cast shady magic via Thaumaturgy, they get money and sponsorship due to Camerilla support as well as the other means the Pyramid gets funds. I wouldn't be surprised if shady political figures sponsor them or are part of them. The Pyramid itself could be considered a gang, a select group of individuals pushing others around for the Pyramid's benefit And of course, they love casting spells.
Hey, I know you usually approach the topic from a first edition to V20 perspective but how do you feel about the drastic changes to Tremere lore in V5? Like the destruction of Vienna and Tremere himself to the second inqustion. I personally really like the house Carna vs Old pyrmaid dynamic
Hi! Thank you for taking your time to watch my stuff and your question! Personally I think the "Vienna Incident" is one of the most interesting turnabouts in Kindred lore, to be honest. I was a bit on the fence with V5, I still am in regards to some things, but the complete change to the structure and organization really hit it home with me. I like it because it allows for a lot of layers of politics, debates on different schools of magic, and House Carna 4 Unlife!!
Tremere himself is still around, he’s in Goratrix’s body. And according to Beckett’s Jyhad Diary, he’s pulling the strings of House Carna behind the scenes.
Hi! Thank you for the question! My videos are primarily about lore from before V5, so that means that Carna's split from the main house, Goratrix's new House and the Ipsissimus' creation hasn't happened yet. Once I go into V5 lore specifically (which might happen sooner than you think), I will definitely talk about that! :D
@@ThePrimogen ahh I see. I've been hunting down as much lore as possible as I'm beyond obsessed with VTM now. I came by way of V5, but am still curious about the older lore & timelines. Your Videos are absolutely appreciated! Thank you!
I keep praying in vain the what happened to Clan Ravnos, happens to Tremere next... Then I remember that its not likely due to them not having a progenitor to worry about.
No mention of the blood bonding of Pyramid members? If I have one issue with House Carna is that it seems like they are trying to make her a good guy and make House Carna as morally acceptable faction of Tremere. As I recall Carna is, Humanity 1 or 3, fairly loopy, and likes to kill her paramours when she gets too obsessed and they try to leave. Unless I am missing something?
I’ve generally kept from discussing clan flaws extensively since they’re described in the core books, but in hindsight I could’ve talked more about it.
Yeah its a bit weird to read some of her lore. She didn't like a ritual because It was "unwholesome", which is a word I'm suprised a Tremere Warlock still remembers the definition of. This was even one of the lesser rituals that only cut out the tounge and eye of the victim. Meanwhile in the House Tremere sourcebook, even while mortal, the Magi of House Tremere where pulling off rituals and experiments that made it only completely fitting that they are a Tzimisce Bloodline (Which Saulot and Tzimisce both exploit and confirm in ToJ: Gehenna). Makes me wonder why and how she has kept power with the Tremere, or how she was embraced in the first place. Tremere tend to be very picky and choosy, just like Ventrue, and it can take years of study and focus as a ghoul before being accepted. Then having to play clan politics, even with the Pyramid shattered. I'm fine with the Pyramid shattering, the Tremere always fuck up eventually, but I really don't see how House Carna is a major House of the Tremere. Considering how "conservative" (for lack of a truly apt term) the Tremere tend to be, and the Tremere tending to focus on and accept those who bow easily to Authority and Tradition even before any Blood Bond/Ghouling/training. Sure I can maybe buy Carna as she is written existing if a magical experiment feedback led to a derangement being formed, and she was only a Regent of a Chantry, if all be it a powerful and big one. I just don't see the Tremere having a population of Kindred who would have enough personal reasons and philosophical lines ups with Carna over the remaining Houses, without major retcons to House Tremere, not just Clan Tremere. Or that population remaining nearly as high after the Pyramid shattered and the backstabbing began. My best guess is that if Carna is populated to even be truly a House, its mostly by Fledglings sired after the fall of the Pyramid, or possibly a few of the surviving Antitribue who never went to Mexico City, but decided with the Sabbat Crusade to jump ship back.
I’ve discussed V5 in some videos but I don’t talk about them in my main lore videos. The intent of those is to provide the background for new players joining who might not have read the older books. Eventually I’ll be covering v5 stuff as well in my main videos but I’m working forward to it :)
Long overdue! I like that the Tremere got toppled because their structure and their power made playing one in a mixed group difficult if you wanted to be true to the lore. Not impossible obviously, but I enjoy that you can now be independent most of the time, but also careful about not making too many waves in case hardline House Tremeres come knocking. I also generally just like the Anarchs more in v5
I really hate the silly ending of Goratrix and the antitribu. Imo a lazy retcon because they didn't know what to do with them. An antediluvian is strong, but to take out a 4th gen like that is not credible. Goratrix was the brilliant mind behind clan Tremere inventor of the potion and (one of the) creators of the Gargoyles. Probably the smartest and most ambitious. He was smart enough to let Tremere have the honour of a soul-to-soul with Saulot. Possession of a kindred, possession over a distance, and thaumaturgy while possessing someone should all not be possible. especially not vs. someone who'd know all wards and stuff to prevent such spells. One shouldn't even be able to find or astral project in one of the strongest chantries of the world. Most of all it's a waste of a very nice potential subclan. I'd have them merge with Assamite antitribu that didn't fit in with the Banu Haqim and the Lasombra and have a faction in between sabbat extremists (like Tzimisce) and the Camarilla. Maybe some local truces to fight Anarchs and Sabbat. But vaulderie, diablerie and freedom to embrace don't really fit with the Camarilla. In an older campaign, I had Goratrix continue his Gargoyle research and make many. In a staged "second gargoyle revolt" a few (weak-minded) ones diablerized all Tremere antitribu. As this new clan, they could seek a haven with another faction without any obvious enemies. Some could have some aptitude for Thaumaturgy (it's in their blood?) and they have all these books.
Salubri fans and literally every mage ever,this is why noone likes the order of Hermes or the tremere Cause yeah,you wont make friends by being a egotistical scumbag who also ate basically a vampiric saint
Oh, you think so? Do you really believe it was a coincidence that Tremere found Saulot? During the diablery the antediluvian opened his third eye staring at Tremere. He led him there!
The Tremere are the one clan that really feel like their internal cohesion makes sense in the setting. Things will happen with other clans like, the Brujah and Gangrel leave the Camarilla, and I find myself wondering, "what does that even mean? Some influential figures said it's over, but surely not everyone is on board with that. What does it even mean for the clan to belong to anything as a whole?" Not so with the Tremere. They've got that well defined social order within themselves, which makes them make sense as a bloc. If the Tremere ever left the Camarilla, I'd instantly feel the weight of that, and the Camarilla certainly would too. Although I guess they now also have the Banu Haqim to be their blood sorcerers.
This, right here, is why I loved the changes to v5. Just like you say, Clan cohesion is nowhere near as strong as in the Tremere, and while the Nosferatu certainly sympathize with each other on an abnormal level compared to other Kindred, the Tremere are by far the most well-organized and in-line.
So with the "Vienna incident", the shake-up of V5 is just delightful to follow.
Great insights, thanks for sharing them! ^^
After researching VtM since being away since the early 2000’s, I’m happy to see that at least the Tremere became one of the most powerful clans throughout the years.
Tremere has always been the most interesting clan socially to me. Having to work around the Pyramid and having an Antidiluvian (albeit a weak and young one) in charge of the clan makes for some pretty unique gameplay. Looking forward to seeing what you do next!
Hey, thanks! ^^ Yeah, the downside to the plot armour the Tremere had pre-v5 was that at least canonically they were very grouchy about people sharing their secrets and striking down on uppity anarchs and the like hard. It makes for interesting gameplay, for sure! Next video will be about the Anarch Revolt and I'm in the middle of some pretty heavy-duty research for it! :D After that, and the Convention of Thorns, my patreons voted for a pair of Tzimisce videos! :)
@@ThePrimogen I thought you were hinting at the Anarch Revolt at the end! That'll be very helpful for my Dark Ages game as we'll be playing through both revolts in all likelihood. Convention of Thorns will be interesting, I don't think I've read about it at all. Tzimisce will super cool as well, so far my favourite character in my campaign is a 5th Gen Tzimisce so it'll be good to learn anything I missed in the Clanbook!
@@Duskwalker68 I'll do my best to cover these events as well as I can. Most likely it will be a summary of things, but I know that Convention of Thorns is actually played out in the second Transylvania Chronicles so I'll be pulling lots of lore from there.
I hope I'll provide helpful content! :D
@@ThePrimogen I'm sure you will, all of your videos have been great and really helpful so far!
Man i really want to play a Tremere now
Join the Pyramid! JOIN THE PYRAMID! BECOME THE PYRAMID!
They've always been my favorite clan, BUT I've never played one. Funny that...
@@enknot No time like the present!
New upload!!! I'm playing Tremere first when Bloodlines 2 drops next year and I can't get enough of their lore!
\o/ I think I might too! Tremere was the first clan I played through VtM:B with (without cheating) and they're by far my favorite Camarilla clan! :D I'm watching your Tzimisce video now, I was gone the whole day yesterday so I couldn't. I'm loving it!
Yeah, Diablerize a Tremere, shoukd go fine.
@@maxschreck9988 Ha! Just following their example ; )
@@maxschreck9988 It works once, I'm sure it can work again :D Besides, I could use with a vicissitude infection or two. ;)
*three years later*
Each time I take a clan test I keep getting stuck in Tremere ( I suppose my neutrality on a lot of shit) even though I don't want to >_>. I was never fond of servitude or super strict rules.
Then I'm sure you'll love V5s take on them. You have House Carna or House Ipsissimus, neither of which are part of the Pyramid. And House Goratrix, I guess, but they're slightly more in touch with the Pyramid.
Another brilliant video
Thank you very much!
When you think about it, this recent phrase can embody the Clan if you are loose with the thought process:
Shadow Wizard Money Gang, We LOVE Casting Spells. This song was sponsored by the Shadow Government
They operate in the shadow of night, and technically cast shady magic via Thaumaturgy, they get money and sponsorship due to Camerilla support as well as the other means the Pyramid gets funds. I wouldn't be surprised if shady political figures sponsor them or are part of them. The Pyramid itself could be considered a gang, a select group of individuals pushing others around for the Pyramid's benefit
And of course, they love casting spells.
Hey, I know you usually approach the topic from a first edition to V20 perspective but how do you feel about the drastic changes to Tremere lore in V5? Like the destruction of Vienna and Tremere himself to the second inqustion. I personally really like the house Carna vs Old pyrmaid dynamic
Hi! Thank you for taking your time to watch my stuff and your question!
Personally I think the "Vienna Incident" is one of the most interesting turnabouts in Kindred lore, to be honest. I was a bit on the fence with V5, I still am in regards to some things, but the complete change to the structure and organization really hit it home with me. I like it because it allows for a lot of layers of politics, debates on different schools of magic, and House Carna 4 Unlife!!
Tremere himself is still around, he’s in Goratrix’s body. And according to Beckett’s Jyhad Diary, he’s pulling the strings of House Carna behind the scenes.
Can you do a video about the 4 Tremere houses?
Hi! Thank you for the question!
My videos are primarily about lore from before V5, so that means that Carna's split from the main house, Goratrix's new House and the Ipsissimus' creation hasn't happened yet.
Once I go into V5 lore specifically (which might happen sooner than you think), I will definitely talk about that! :D
@@ThePrimogen ahh I see. I've been hunting down as much lore as possible as I'm beyond obsessed with VTM now. I came by way of V5, but am still curious about the older lore & timelines. Your Videos are absolutely appreciated! Thank you!
Greta video as always.
I keep praying in vain the what happened to Clan Ravnos, happens to Tremere next... Then I remember that its not likely due to them not having a progenitor to worry about.
I mean... some stuffs going down in V5 alright! :D
No mention of the blood bonding of Pyramid members?
If I have one issue with House Carna is that it seems like they are trying to make her a good guy and make House Carna as morally acceptable faction of Tremere. As I recall Carna is, Humanity 1 or 3, fairly loopy, and likes to kill her paramours when she gets too obsessed and they try to leave.
Unless I am missing something?
I’ve generally kept from discussing clan flaws extensively since they’re described in the core books, but in hindsight I could’ve talked more about it.
Yeah its a bit weird to read some of her lore. She didn't like a ritual because
It was "unwholesome", which is a word I'm suprised a Tremere Warlock still remembers the definition of.
This was even one of the lesser rituals that only cut out the tounge and eye of the victim.
Meanwhile in the House Tremere sourcebook, even while mortal, the Magi of House Tremere where pulling off rituals and experiments that made it only completely fitting that they are a Tzimisce Bloodline (Which Saulot and Tzimisce both exploit and confirm in ToJ: Gehenna).
Makes me wonder why and how she has kept power with the Tremere, or how she was embraced in the first place. Tremere tend to be very picky and choosy, just like Ventrue, and it can take years of study and focus as a ghoul before being accepted.
Then having to play clan politics, even with the Pyramid shattered.
I'm fine with the Pyramid shattering, the Tremere always fuck up eventually, but I really don't see how House Carna is a major House of the Tremere. Considering how "conservative" (for lack of a truly apt term) the Tremere tend to be, and the Tremere tending to focus on and accept those who bow easily to Authority and Tradition even before any Blood Bond/Ghouling/training. Sure I can maybe buy Carna as she is written existing if a magical experiment feedback led to a derangement being formed, and she was only a Regent of a Chantry, if all be it a powerful and big one.
I just don't see the Tremere having a population of Kindred who would have enough personal reasons and philosophical lines ups with Carna over the remaining Houses, without major retcons to House Tremere, not just Clan Tremere. Or that population remaining nearly as high after the Pyramid shattered and the backstabbing began.
My best guess is that if Carna is populated to even be truly a House, its mostly by Fledglings sired after the fall of the Pyramid, or possibly a few of the surviving Antitribue who never went to Mexico City, but decided with the Sabbat Crusade to jump ship back.
What exactly are the Children Down the Well?
Are you going to go over the V5 changes eventually or did I miss a video?
I’ve discussed V5 in some videos but I don’t talk about them in my main lore videos. The intent of those is to provide the background for new players joining who might not have read the older books. Eventually I’ll be covering v5 stuff as well in my main videos but I’m working forward to it :)
Sounds like my university life.
look i'm not saying i was a Arach Tremere before it was cool but i was :3
Still one of my favorite Tremere characters.
There' something delightfully devilish in playing an Anarch Tremere. :) Mostly I think it's the spite.
@@ThePrimogen That and it's also hard mode too, you can't go and get all the rituals and paths to break your ST either :3
What do you guys think of House Ipsissimus, the Anarch Tremere?
Long overdue! I like that the Tremere got toppled because their structure and their power made playing one in a mixed group difficult if you wanted to be true to the lore. Not impossible obviously, but I enjoy that you can now be independent most of the time, but also careful about not making too many waves in case hardline House Tremeres come knocking.
I also generally just like the Anarchs more in v5
Ummmm, how are they best organized if their clan was devastated by the SI ?
for the algorithm
I really hate the silly ending of Goratrix and the antitribu. Imo a lazy retcon because they didn't know what to do with them.
An antediluvian is strong, but to take out a 4th gen like that is not credible. Goratrix was the brilliant mind behind clan Tremere inventor of the potion and (one of the) creators of the Gargoyles. Probably the smartest and most ambitious. He was smart enough to let Tremere have the honour of a soul-to-soul with Saulot.
Possession of a kindred, possession over a distance, and thaumaturgy while possessing someone should all not be possible. especially not vs. someone who'd know all wards and stuff to prevent such spells. One shouldn't even be able to find or astral project in one of the strongest chantries of the world.
Most of all it's a waste of a very nice potential subclan. I'd have them merge with Assamite antitribu that didn't fit in with the Banu Haqim and the Lasombra and have a faction in between sabbat extremists (like Tzimisce) and the Camarilla. Maybe some local truces to fight Anarchs and Sabbat. But vaulderie, diablerie and freedom to embrace don't really fit with the Camarilla.
In an older campaign, I had Goratrix continue his Gargoyle research and make many. In a staged "second gargoyle revolt" a few (weak-minded) ones diablerized all Tremere antitribu. As this new clan, they could seek a haven with another faction without any obvious enemies. Some could have some aptitude for Thaumaturgy (it's in their blood?) and they have all these books.
Salubri fans and literally every mage ever,this is why noone likes the order of Hermes or the tremere
Cause yeah,you wont make friends by being a egotistical scumbag who also ate basically a vampiric saint
Oh, you think so? Do you really believe it was a coincidence that Tremere found Saulot? During the diablery the antediluvian opened his third eye staring at Tremere.
He led him there!
Tremeres are horrible.