Awesome well explained video! Im definitely getting a CSV. I have a pressure tank system (well x trol professional) 80 gal. Way oversized for the house but with a csv the pressure drop goes away,outstanding! This vid has excellent detail for the novice or trained professional (maintenance mech for large steel corp.) Thanx again for the info.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I deleted my post for 2 reasons, I have only seen videos of why not to have a csv, They can be misinformation since I noticed a few sketchy things that make you doubt truth or lie. Common Sense tells you if you return the same water in a small test tank and cycle a pump, it's going to heat up so going to investigate further before making a statement that may not be right. Second, I do notice a big amp drop after start up so you may be right, keeping it running may allow it to run better and longer, Personal experience with jet pumps, I notice you can get double the life by just letting it run and I can say that with truth since I did just that, my old jet system never shut off on purpose, got tired of changing pressure switches and even a small issue, shut down, clear system, fix issue, waste time priming lines and rinse/repeat, I set it to run constant and had little issue's plus it stayed cooler, I switched to submersible and kept the same set up except my pump works so good, it fills the 30 gallon tank so fast it barely ever runs for 15 seconds every couple hours unless you use washer/tub/shower. Even then it barely cuts on, But if your csv does what it says, pump barely will ever run at even 50%, I would guess like jet pump, draw less power, never trip the pressure switch and still keep 33psi, the only question I have is what happens to back pressure from not using water, would that not build back pressure? My jet pump returned water in a loop but the sub has no return, what happens to back pressure? Pump would be pushing water with no where to go if nothing is being used.
@@Klemin2012 Thanks. You are starting to understand. There is no water being recirculated. If you are not using the minimum 1 GPM coming through the CSV, then the 1 GPM fills the pressure tank until the pump is shut off. Jet pumps don't drop much in amps, but are air cooled motors and doesn't make any difference on water flow for cooling. The back pressure will be as much as your pump can build when thinking the well is deeper, which is how the CSV controls flow. But no pump can build more pressure than it can stand. Back pressure is a good thing as that is what makes the amps drop and the motor to run cooler.
Hey its good to see you folks here, I bought two systems for chicken houses back in 07 , smooth running and honestly I have had no problems with this setup other than my plumbing, but I was moving some water with those 8lb birds. I'm going to add your valve to my house today borrowing one from the farm since I'm no longer in operation. I blame the bank, but I'm a deplorable so...but I got good water.
Excellent explanation of CSV. I was torn between CSV or VFD system for my new home and this has helped me make my decision. Thank you Cycle Stop Valves!
My main concern on the Cycle Stop Valve is the increase in backpressure. I've read many positive reviews on your website about them but also many of those same positive reviews have had fittings blow apart and or leaks due to the increased back pressure between the pump and pressure tank. Although I see the need to try and reduce pump cycle's the last thing I want to do is have to dig up a water line or pull the well pump due to fitting failure from the increase in back pressure. My Franklin Electric Pump lasted 23 years before needing to be replaced on the traditional pressure tank and switch system.
Back pressure is good for the pump, cannot be any more than your pump can make, and the CSV itself has a limit. I only know of one idiot who blew off the incoming pipe, he just posted it on Amazon, which we do not do business with, so they keep that post up top. Lol. If your pump lasted 23 years without a CSV, it would last 40-50 years with one. We have only done this about a million times over the last 30 years. So, look at your pump curve, figure out how little back pressure it can build, get over your concern, and start enjoying strong constant pressure instead of seeing that pressure go up and down over and over and over.
Very good illustration and explanation. Thank you. I understood the concept very well but in trying to explain it verbally to others when asked why I have such a small pressure tank, I get blank stares but showing this video clearly explains the concept.
I know the blank stare you are talking about. To be such a simple valve the CSV has a complicated explanation and a hundred ways to use it. I have tried for 25 years to find a better way to explain it. I am glad the animation video helped. :)
Interesting device, sounds like a special kind of pressure regulator. If I had to make an educated guess: It is like an adjustable high flow regulator (set to 50psi in this example), with a secondary, very restricted path (1gpm) that bypasses the regulator. This bypass path only allows pressure on the output side of the regulator to gain more then the regulator setting when the flow is less then 1gpm, and is critical in making this work. Very clever!
Thank you. Yeah so simple it is scary. Lol! We tried to see these to all the pump companies back in the early 90's. Took us several years to find out they blacklisted the CSV. Pump companies said the CSV is a disruptive product as it makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks. Wow! Found something that makes pumps work better and last longer and the pump companies are doing everything in their power to discredit us and come up with variable speed pumps or Masscontrol flow switch controllers that don't make pumps last forever like a CSV does. Notice you don't hear from any of our customers from 20-30 years ago? The CSV made their pump systems work so well and last so long they forget they even have a pump system. When water comes out the faucet everytime you open it, you will never have to think about your pump system again.
Thank you for adding the back pressure valve in the illustration. People need to know/see that there is excessive back pressure being restricted to this side of the pumping system. I know you have "proven" that this back pressure will do less damage to the pump than damage to the motor from more cycling, but this back pressure can get in excess of 150psi... Good valves though, I use them in a few different applications.
There can never be "excessive" backpressure with a Cycle Stop Valve. The CSV itself cannot handle "excessive" backpressure. The only time you would have excessive backpressure is if you have a 100' deep well with a pump designed for say 500'. And that is not going to happen because the CSV will not even work in an application like that. The CSV will only work with less than 125 PSI differential pressure. So if you have the CSV set for 50 PSI, there cannot be more than 175 PSI coming from the pump. Many pump companies want you to think the CSV causes "excessive" backpressure. They don't want you to get the benefits of a CSV, because it will make your pump last longer. So they try to scare people talking about "excessive" backpressure, which in reality CANNOT happen.
Brilliant animation. I live in an area that is close to the reservoir and the pressure is within spec but only just. I am thinking of installing a pressure booster system.
The CSV sounds like a great idea. I also have some thoughts on the pressure tank. I think well tanks are poorly designed, possibly to avoid coating the inside of the tank. My thought is that the bladder should be for air rather than water. The bladder shape would not be critical and replacement could be through a port located on top of the tank for easy access so a homeowner could just pick up a replacement at home depot and install it w/o even fully draining the tank.
There are bladder tanks and there are diaphragm tanks. Some bladder tanks have the air inside the bladder, some have water. All diaphragm tanks that I know of only have water under the diaphragm. The most important thing to make a tank last is to limit the pump cycling. With every pump cycle the diaphragm or bladder expands and contracts. it is like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks. It is only going to take so many bends. You could use up all the bends in a short time by letting the pump cycle on/off too much, or you can make a bladder/diaphragm last many years by reducing or eliminating the cycling by using a Cycle Stop Valve. The second most important part of making a tank last is getting one where the bladder/diaphragm does not touch the sides when expanding and contracting. It is hard to make a bladder that doesn't touch the tanks sides, and easy to make a diaphragm expand and contract without touching the tank. Oh, and tanks with replaceable bladders are the worst, as they are made to need replacing regularly. In other words diaphragm tanks are better than bladder tanks, but any tank will last longer when working with a Cycle Stop Valve.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! I find that Wellmate makes a fiberglass well tank with a top replaceable air cell. They apparently have a quick disconnect for the plumbing as well. I just recharged my bladder tank idf I have to replace it I am considering a Wellmate tank and a CSV.
@@shofar-man The bag or bladder in a well mate tank tends to wrinkle when it expands and contracts. The fold or wrinkle is where it will break. Look at the flex lite. They are fiberglass with a diaphragm.
CSV sounds like a great way to blow you pipes apart or cause leaks as the back pressure greatly increases from 125 psi to over 300psi CSV sounds like a great way to increase your energy usage, it takes a lot more energy to increase water pressure from 125 psi to over 300 psi. CSV sounds like a great way to wear out your pump as the water vanes have 300PSI vs 115psi wearing against them. If you want constant pressure, invest in a freq drive pump.
All that was debunked over 30 years ago, which is also how long we have been using Cycle Stop Valves to replace VFD's or Variable Frequency Drives. I thought VFD's were great as well back in the late 80's and early 90's. Then I got smart and figured out pump amps will drop naturally without varying the speed. When I figured out a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical (no electric) valve was a better pump control than a VFD I never looked back. Someday maybe you will get smart too. All you have to do is research or test it for yourself to figure out everything you said is incorrect. You can't get a better pump control than a Cycle Stop Valve.
wow thanks! My well pump is always on and off when I water my lawn and shower and stuff. I thought something was wrong with my tank but now I know it doesn't hold anything. I need this bad. the pump was replaced 8 years ago when I bought the house and don't know if a variable pump in the ground.
Even the new variable speed pumps just turn on and off all the time you are using water. But if you have a regular pressure switch it is probably not a variable speed pump and the Cycle Stop Valve will solve your problem and give you strong constant pressure in the shower.
I think I buy your thoughts, it makes sence to me. My pressure tank is a small one and when I water in my lawn my pump just keep going on and off. Will consider get one. Thanks.
This may be an ignorant question and if so you have my apologies. I am purchasing a newly built home with a well. I am trying to understand how the well systems work and so far this was the best description of the two main pressure systems, so thank you. I would like to know where in these systems would you put the water softener, reverse osmosis, and other filtering systems. Should you put something before and after or just after?
Thank you! All filters, softeners, and such should be placed after the CSV/pressure tank on the line going to the house. Keep in mind filters and softeners lose quite a bit of pressure through them. So, you may want to set up your system with 60 PSI constant from the CSV using a 50/70 pressure switch instead of the usual 40/60 pressure settings.
I am looking to make an irrigation system for my orchard and garden. I am also going to add a few hydrants along the way. I want to pull water out of my creek and was looking at different setups. I have a good pump and old bladder from an old setup. With this Valve, do I still need to use a bladder tank? what is the point of the tank if the valve bypasses the tank?
I have a well with a submersible pump but water comes out for only about 7-12 minutes depending on the time of the year. I am wanting to add a cabin on my property and plan on burying a water cistern near the house. I am going to buy a timer switch for the well pump so that it comes on multiple times per day and will fill into the cistern. Since I am only there on weekends or maybe once a month I should be able to capture enough water in cistern to service my cabin, sprinkler system and maybe a drip irrigation system. My plan is to put a submersible pump in the cistern and run it to a little pump house and then out from there. Your video makes sense and I am thinking I need your kit with the CSV. I have limited knowledge of these types of systems so I am wondering what type of submersible pump I need for my cistern (HP and GPM) to make all of this work using your system. Thanks.
How many GPM's do you have running for 7-12 minutes to pump the well dry? Even a well that only makes 1 GPM can still give you 1440 gallons every day. You need a Cycle Sensor for the well pump to protect it from running dry, and it will be your timer as it is built into the Cycle Sensor. You can use a Cycle Sensor on the cistern pump as well, so it shuts off if the cistern is run dry. Because of the price many people are using the 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark pumps in cisterns. I prefer the 230V version. Used in combination with our PK1A kit you can have all the water you want at a strong constant pressure. See this link. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1841.0
So if my pump is capable of build 175psi, but my pipe before the cvs is 125psi pipe, wouldn't i need to worry about it blowing up the pipe? Older 1" black roll.
Yes. That is why we check those things when recommending a CSV. But usually there is only 30-50 PSI more on the pipe than the normal pressure that happens because of the depth of the well and the pressure on the pressure switch. If the pump is 260' deep when the pressure switch gets to 60 there is 175 PSI on the pipe at the bottom of the well, even without a CSV.
Thank you, I've been maintaining a well system for decades without understanding it completely. I've achieved ok results by using overkill on everything. I have recently installed a CSV but need to do more adjusting, as my pump still cycles
If you have a CSV and the pump is still cycling, just loosen the adjustment bolt on the CSV or increase the pressure setting of the pressure switch until the pump runs continuously while you are using water.
That worked well, I settled on 55 in a 40-60 system, and it is doing as advertised. The Animation got through my confusion like no written explanation has, excellent work, Thank you again.
I'd love to install one but the poly pipe from my home to well is 45 years old and as I found out when digging down FOUR FEET to fix a leak, it's thin wall 100PSIG irrigation pipe! The NEXT time there's a leak I will hire a ditch witch and replace with proper 260PSIG 1 1/4" pipe and install a CSV set at 60 psig. My switch is set at 55/75 to keep my RO/DI watermaker happy. It's too large for a booster pump to be practical so there's that. Our Amtrol 87 gal tank only has about 22 gallons drawdown due to the higher pressure as well.
You probably only need 160# poly pipe. But they do make 250# if needed. First things first, you need new pipe. Then a CSV can hold a constant 70 PSI working with your 55/75 switch and 87 gallon tank. A constant 70 PSI will be much stronger than when cycling on and off between 55 and 75 as it is now.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Yes when there is a leak (and I'll know immediately as the system check valve is on the pump), I do plan on replacing the line. I want to overkill things as our soil is rocky and I believe that's where the problem lies. Even with careful backfilling, just don't want to deal with a break! I even thought of running conduit and pulling the pipe through that but that may be a bit much. The cycling is noticeable but not as bad as before when we had a 20 gallon tank with 4.8 gallon drawdown (55-75)! And if a toilet is flushed during a shower the water probably gets 15 degrees warmer for a few sec.
Miguel Vasquez 2 hours ago I understand the long term use (Taking showers), but what about short term, flushing the toilet once wash your hands, seems like the pump will kick on filling the small tank rather then not kicking on having the bigger tank that will supply the water, not having the pump kicking on just because you flushed the toilet one time. It is not the small things that cause cycling problems. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles on for every toilet flush, although it doesn't. What hurts is repetitive cycling during long showers or watering the yard. Your water doesn't come from the tank, it comes from the well/pump. Pressure tanks are only to reduce the on/off cycling, and when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is just a waste of money and space. See this chart for number of cycles with or without a CSV for just house use only. The CSV and small tank still cycle less than a large tank with no CSV. Then if you have any long term uses like yard watering, there is no comparison as the CSV will cycle the pump only once, while without the CSV the pump will cycle hundreds of times. Average Cycles Pump Cycles for Family of Four with No Irrigation Cycle Stop Valve Pressure NO CSV CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI Pressure Tank Size 20 Gallon 4.4 Gallon 10 Gallon 20 Gallon Average Daily Cycles 35 31 25 18
We have kits that come with either a 4.5 or a 10 gallon size tank, which works for most applications. 1HP or smaller pump running at 40/60 or less with a single family home only needs the 4.5 gallon size tank. Any larger family, extra house, 1.5HP pump or larger, or running higher than 40/60 pressure should use the 10 gallon size tank. More than a couple houses and I would use a 20 gallon size tank. Look at the kit model PK1A.
I understand the long term use (Taking showers), but what about short term, flushing the toilet once wash your hands, seems like the pump will kick on filling the small tank rather then not kicking on having the bigger tank that will supply the water, not having the pump kicking on just because you flushed the toilet one time.
It is not the small things that cause cycling problems. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles on for every toilet flush, although it doesn't. What hurts is repetitive cycling during long showers or watering the yard. Your water doesn't come from the tank, it comes from the well/pump. Pressure tanks are only to reduce the on/off cycling, and when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is just a waste of money and space. See this chart for number of cycles with or without a CSV for just house use only. The CSV and small tank still cycle less than a large tank with no CSV. Then if you have any long term uses like yard watering, there is no comparison as the CSV will cycle the pump only once, while without the CSV the pump will cycle hundreds of times. Average Cycles Pump Cycles for Family of Four with No Irrigation Cycle Stop Valve Pressure NO CSV CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI Pressure Tank Size 20 Gallon 4.4 Gallon 10 Gallon 20 Gallon Average Daily Cycles 35 31 25 18
Thank you for the well informed video. What is your opinion on a whole house filter with a CSV? Should a filter be installed before the pump, between the pump and CSV, or after the CSV?
Wonderful video. I’d love to see a video with a holding tank and dual float switches. We are buying a home with a well that produces 3.6 GPM. The pressure tank is bad and we have to do some work. I wanted to have a 400 gallon plastic holding tank in the basement with a jet pump. Any information on this kind of system would be greatly appreciated. I love the animation. Thanks again.
I don't have a video but I do have several drawings of a cistern pump set up. Here is a link to one in my forum. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1840.0
Can you please explain why a system will fail to work when the pressure gauge is faulty? I’ve have to change my gauge twice in 25 years and I can’t figure out why the gauge which isn’t wired to anything can affect the whole system. If the pressure switch is set properly shouldn’t that be sufficient? Thank You
The pressure gauge has nothing to do with the function of the pump. The pressures switch will still turn the pump on at 40 and off at 60 even if there was no gauge. But gauges are like everything else in a pump system which is destroyed from the pump cycling on and off too much.
What about the cycle duty times on these pumps Designed to be a 1 or 2 min run time. Asking for trouble having something like this just to not feel a slight pressure drop
Lol! Even 1-2 minutes of run time isn't enough. That is just the minimum. With a CSV the pump will run for as long as you are using water, then 1 more minute to fill the tank. You don't have to worry about "cycle duty" on a pump when it has a Cycle Stop Valve. Although you can use any size pressure tank you want with a CSV, even with the small tank there really is no way, as in no amount of flow for any length of time that will make the pump cycle repeatedly, which is what destroys most pumps. Cycle Stop Valves make pumps last many times longer than normal, not the other way around.
I am going to ask some questions that may also benefit others. If I bulk up the channel too much I think you can delete them. I have a 35 gal bladder tank that I just recharged. I will check run time occasionally to determine if the bladder is bad. I am thinking that with a CSV the short cycling experienced with a leaky bladder would not be a problem as it would still provide a buffer to allow the pressure switch to activate the pump and eliminate the short cycling. If that's the case tank replacement could be put off until a more convenient time or maybe forever if one were willing to keep check on the air.
Several things. If the system had a CSV to start with, the pump would not have cycled on/off enough to destroy the tank bladder. But yes if you have a water logged tank, the CSV will still keep the pump running while a toilet is filling or a shower is running, compared to clicking on and off rapidly several hundred times as it would without a CSV. Delays the need to replace the tank, but doesn't eliminate it. A good tank is needed, just not a large one. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM above its set point. So, no matter the size tank we try to set the CSV/pressure switch to get a minute of run time. This can be done with as small as a 4.5 gallon size tank that only holds 1 gallon of water. The CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM makes the tank more of a mechanical timer than a water storage vessel. The 1 minute of run time (which with the CSV only happens after you stop using water) is to make sure you are finished using water before the pump shuts off. As long as you are using more than 1 GPM the CSV just keeps the pump running continuously, water goes right past the tank, and the size of the tank is a moot point.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 !.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing? 2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house. 3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries?
@@shofar-man 1.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing? With a 40/60 switch a 35 gallon tank holds about 8 gallons of water. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM. You can get two minutes of run time with a 5 PSI bandwidth, like on at 55 and off at 60. Setting the CSV at 55 will give you two minutes of run time. However, you will also only get 2 gallons out of the tank before the pump starts, which is basically the same as using a 10 gallon size tank with a full 40/60 switch setting. The 55/60 setting would keep the pressure more constant than the 40/60 setting. But it is only for the first 2 gallons used from the tank, as then the pump starts and the CSV gives perfect constant pressure for as long as the faucet/shower is on. The first 2 gallons is used up so quickly you won't notice the quick pressure drop to 40 before the pump starts. So, larger tanks are not necessary. BTW, finding a pressure switch that will do less than 17-20 PSI between on and off isn't easy either. 2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house. The CSV would at least need to go before the first hydrant. It can go in the line or the CSV125 is made to be installed in the well, so it is before everything. 3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries? No. Especially with the CSV125 as it can only take a max of 150 PSI back pressure. If you can't find any info on the pump, and amp check will tell you the Horsepower, and a bucket test will tell you the GPM rate and gives a clue to the depth of water. From these things I can back into which pump you have and find a curve. You can also use a pressure gauge before a ball valve and close the ball valve long enough to get a max pressure reading, which is really all we need to know if the CSV will work. Most pump systems are fine with a CSV. However, occasionally we run into a pump someone incorrectly installed that was made for for a 800'-1000' deep well, and the well water level is only 10'. That causes more back pressure than a CSV can handle, and is why you can't just put a CSV on without knowing something about the pump. I can help you with the amp and bucket test if you like? 806-885-4445
restricting flow by applying reverse pressure heats the winding , in turn, may damage their insulation. the pump needs to work at it capacity unless its an inverter.
You could not be more wrong! Restricting the flow decreases amperage and heat in the motor windings, not the other way around. The pump can work almost anywhere on its curve without varying the speed. Fact is the high voltage spikes and rapid rate of switching from an inverter "VFD" cause high temperature in the motor windings and shorten motor life. Cycle Stop Valves make motors run cooler and last longer, which is why VFD or inverter companies feed you so much BS, trying to keep you from trying a CSV, which will make your pump/motor last 30+ years.
The CSV must be before the pressure tank/pressure switch. When the pressure tank is screwed directly to the 3/4 port in the CSV1A the tank is on the outlet side of the CSV.
The CSV1A as comes in the PK1A kit is designed to handle some sand or sediment. Just put all your filters and softeners after the PK1A kit or after the pressure tank.
Large pressure tanks are not good at storing water for power outages. An 80 gallon size pressure tank only holds 20 gallons of water, and that is only when the tank is full to 60 PSI. When/if the pressure is at 41 PSI, just before the pump comes on at 40, there is only 1 gallon of water in the pressure tank. You have no way of making sure the system is at 60 instead of 41 when the power goes off. Murphy's law says it will always be at 41 when the power goes off. If you knew the power was going off, and made the pump come on and fill the tank to 60, you would have 20 gallons stored. But without knowing the power is going off, you also can't make sure there is any water in the pressure tank. I keep a couple of 5 gallon water bottles in the closet to be sure I have some water when the power goes off. And I keep a generator handy for times when the power is off for long periods. A large pressure tank is just a waste of space and money, and makes the pressure in the house be high at 60 or low at 40 for long periods of time. A small tank with a CSV will give you much stronger constant 50 PSI instead of continually going up and down from 40 to 60 as with a big tank. PS; I hate when people remove questions they ask after I answer them. I will leave this explanation for the next person who thinks big pressure tanks are a good way to store water for times with no power.
Is it safe to use this system if you have no idea what the specs are on your well pump or the well depth? I keep seeing people concerned about the pressure between the pump and the CSV. When I bought my house, it came with no info regarding the well pump or the well depth but I want to try this system.
Usually yes. It is rare for a house pump to be so oversized that it builds more than 200 PSI on the inlet. But it is possible. Knowing the horsepower or amperage drawn and checking to see how many gallons a minute you can catch in a bucket will tell us what size pump you have. Or, you can just put a gauge and a ball valve on the pump and test for pressure.
First off great video, I have a few questions tho...So as the csv reduces the flow as needed, I can see the pressure go up on the pump discharge. How does the pump conserve energy if only the flow rate is reduced? The pumps output should be the same no matter the flow which is why the discharge pressure increases as the flow to the system is reduced correct? I understand the concept, but am wondering what kind of stess a csv would put on the pump and if it would reduce the life of the pump any. Thanks for the video and I look forward to getting my questions answered!
It is just the opposite of what you might think. Counter intuitive is the word. You can see as the pressure goes up on the pump discharge the amperage or power required goes down. The amperage is the "work" that the pump has to do. So when the amperage goes down the work goes down, which is easier on the pump, not harder. Most pump guys don't even know amperage or work goes down as pump discharge pressure increases. If you find a pump man who understands this counter intuitive fact about pumps, you found a good pump man. If a pump man doesn't understand how a pump really works he will try to sell you a VFD. But a VFD is just trying to trick a pump into doing something it already does naturally. Just most people don't know restricting the flow from a pump makes the pump draw lower amperage and last longer than normal.
I have been running cycle stop for about 4 years now it’s still working . We had a deep freeze destroyed the pressure switch when the 1/8 line froze .(my fault I forgot to connect heat lamp).
YES THEY DO! They hate it that the Cycle Stop Valve makes pumps last several times longer than their planned obsolescence date. So they will tell you anything they can to keep you from using a CSV, including saying that it will void the warranty. BUT they will not put that in writing. They know if they put that in writing I would own their pump company. Because not only can they not disallow a warranty for using a CSV, they have never seen a pump damaged in anyway in all these 25 years the CSV has been in existence. Restricting the flow from the pump reduces the amp draw and makes the motor run cooler. Plus restricting the flow is how the CSV keeps the pump from cycling itself to death, which is why pumps using a CSV last many times longer than those without a CSV.
My pump is next to my water storage tank outside my house and the pressure tank is in the basement inside my house. Does the CSV need to be in close proximity to the pressure tank or can it be installed right after the pump? My pump has the pressure gauge and pressure switch right next to it.
Well the pressure switch and pressure tank need to be close together and after the CSV. But the CSV can be at the well or just before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV is usually installed at the well when there are hydrants or tees in the line before it gets to the pressure tank at the house.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 My pressure switch and tank are about 20 feet apart and have been since I've owned the house. But if I'm going to install a CSV, should I move the pressure tank out to where the switch is?
You're right that pumps will use less energy at lower flow. That is one of the ways i diagnose pumps at work. This doesn't make this valve work in pump control applications though. Running the pump at less than 50% of its flow rating will cause cavitation and vibration thus increasing wear on it.
Yep close a valve and if the amps don't drop that is the best way to diagnose a bad thrust bearing in the motor. But you can run these regular centrifugal pumps at much lower flow rate than you would think. Now I am talking about using cool water only, as hot water applications have a much higher minimum flow required. The minimum flow in a Cycle Stop Valve is set to maintain adequate flow to keep the pump from getting hot. The cool water being pumped can never increase in temperature by more than 10F degrees from inlet to outlet. As long as you don't let the fluid get hot, water has excellent cooling and lubricating values. A little re-circulation doesn't hurt anything, and won't cause any cavitation until the water heats, which it is not going to do. Vibration on a large end suction centrifugal pump can happen if the shaft slenderness ratio is too low. A small diameter shaft cannot hold the weight and force of a large impeller extended on the end of the shaft. But if it is a well built pump to start with, it won't vibrate even at very low flow rates, just like when you are testing at shut off. Multi-stage and submersible pumps, which are most common in these applications, have bearings on both ends of each impeller and are not prone to vibration from shaft flexibility. Even if there were a little vibration or cavitation, it would be far less harmful for the pump/motor than letting the pump cycle on/off to supply varied demands.
Wouldn't it work the same then if I just eliminate the pressure tank and leave the pump straight to the house on demand with no valves or anything in between?
Interesting. How does the cycle stop valve respond to a low flowing well? I would surmise that it would only be able to maintain a constant pressure if the flow demand is less than the pump/well can deliver. If the flow demand exceeds the well's/pump's capability, will the valve close to the point that it flows only what the well/pump is capable of delivering, or will it start oscillating the pressure and cause short cycles? Also, what about winterizing? Does a bypass need to be installed to drain the house piping, or will water flow backwards through the valve? Lastly, what's required to winterize the cycle stop valve?
The Cycle Stop Valve will let you pump a weak well dry if you open too many faucets. The Cycle Sensor is designed to sense a dry well and shut the pump off. The pump doesn't cycle when it pumps the well dry, but it will burn out if not shut off fairly soon. The Cycle Stop Valve does allow you to use a very small amount of water without cycling the pump. So if your well only makes 4 GPM, and you only open 3 GPM worth of faucets, the CSV will make the pump only supply 3 GPM and you won't pump the well dry.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! What about winterizing the cycle stop valve? Is a drain valve required on each side of the valve, or can water flow backward through the valve for draining the system?
How would it help with a low yield well? I am thinking of putting in a storage tank connected to existing well pump AND adding a booster pump to the existing 32 gallon pressure tank.
You need the Cycle Sensor to protect your well pump from running dry. The Cycle Stop Valve would go on the booster pump to keep it from cycling to death and to deliver strong constant pressure to the house.
I’m curious what the pressure would be on the line from an average submersible pump to the valve? And why couldn’t you use a larger pressure tank to reduce cycles when you only need say 2-3 gallons?
There is no average pressure from a submersible pump. Every pump is different and the water level in every well is different. It is not common to have more than about 150 PSI, but 90-120 is more common. Give me the size of your pump and the water level in the well and I can tell you exactly how much pressure will be before the CSV. And sure you can use as large a tank as you want with a CSV, if you just like wasting money, space, and waiting on the strong constant pressure to happen. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles for every 2-3 gallons used, which is doesn't when you see how the CSV works. The CSV takes off so many cycles for the long term uses of water that you can't hurt the pump flushing a toilet even a hundred times per day. Pump companies labeled the CSV as a disruptive product almost 30 years ago as it makes pumps last longer and uses smaller pressure tanks. A product that is disruptive to the pump industry is the best thing you can do for your pump and your pocketbook. If pump companies don't like it, it is the best thing for you.
Thanks for the reply! We have a new 1/2 hp Zoeller pump, the well is 150’ with water level typically at 75’. We actually bought a CSV Kit, just haven’t installed it yet due to worries about the potential pressure on the old plumbing from the well casing to the house.
Believe it or not the CSV has been documented to increase the life of pump from 4 to 10 times. Our first test 30 years ago were on systems that cycled the pump to death every 2 years or so. Those systems last over 20 years with a CSV. Other systems where the pump lasted the normal 5-7 years the CSV has made last 30 years so far, and most are still working. You would not believe how long a pump will last when you reduce or eliminate the cycling on and off. That is why pump companies have labeled the CSV a "disruptive" product, as it makes pumps last much longer than the manufacturer wants it to.
Great explanation and thank you for the video. Do you run the risk of cavitating your pump blades by sending variable flows? Most pumps are designed to operate at a pretty strict flow and net head (pressure) range. Is the assumption here that you would need a pump that can effectively process a wide flow range?
The CSV can never close quite enough to cause cavitation. Most centrifugal pumps can handle a much wider range of flow than some people might think. Really as long as there is enough flow to keep the pump cool, cavitation is not an issue. Restricting the inlet line to the pump would cause cavitation, restricting the discharge of a pump only increases the head pressure, reduces the work the motor has to do, and even makes the motor run cooler.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Very interesting. I need to check my pump spec sheet and now might consider using a CSV. Does it operate under a similar principal to pump control Cla-Val or Bermad? I tried researching the innards on how the CSV works and couldn't find much.
@@andrewbenjamin3687 There is plenty on how the CSV works. It is just so simple you didn't realize that was all of it. The CSV works on a pressure reducing principle just like many Cla-Vals, Bermads, etc. The patented difference is that the CSV can never close to less than needed to keep the pump/motor cool. The minimum bypass in the CSV is what keeps the motor/pump cool, determines the rate that fills the pressure tank, and also determines the minimum usage rate at which the pump will not cycle.
Hi, Ok so I have a question. Most pumps are not "regulated" due to flow demand. So if you have a standard jet pump or deep well pump, that typically provides a specific GPM at specified pressure, I see a problem at "low flow". Typically, the pressure tank handles the pumps capacity. With a CSV, there is no way for the pump to ADJUST to the low flow. You state that only "1 GPM" is required. How exactly is that possible without stressing the pump? My jet pump for example. When its on, its on, pumping at it max flow rate into the pressure tank. If I drop flow to 1GPM when that pumps wants to put out say 12 GPM, where is that "EXTRA ENERGY" being dissipated when my pump is trying to pump at 12 GPM? The pump is not a "variable flow" pump. That means that something is stressed somewhere. With low flow, is that impeller now cavitating because the pump is running full throttle and there is no where for the water to go? If so, that is going to cause PREMATURE failure somewhere in the closed system with pressure increases somewhere in the pump unless the pump has some why to overcome it. A CSV cannot throttle up or down a "NON VARIABLE SPEED" pump. How do you explain this? Thanks,
Lol! You would think so right? But that is not how pumps work. Pumps work on a curve. Your 12 GPM pump will produce 12 GPM at low pressure, or 1 GPM at a higher pressure. Submersibles will pump 12 GPM from a shallow well, but only 1 GPM if the well is deep enough. You don't have to slow a pump down to make it pump less water, just make it think it is in a deeper well by closing a valve to increase the pressure. The amazing and counter intuitive thing about pumps is that the amps or power needed decreases with flow, even though the pressure is increasing. Close a valve down to 1 GPM and the pump is only pumping 1 GPM. There maybe 100 PSI in the pump case, but the impeller is just spinning like a top in the perfect coolant and lubricant, and not drawing any load. Same thing happens when you put your hand over a blow dryer or vacuum cleaner. The amps don't go up, they are reduced when the flow is blocked off. You can hear the motor speed up because it it not blowing air and there is no load. Centrifugal pumps work the same way. The CSV just makes the pump think it is in a deep well when only a little water is needed, and makes the pump think it is in a shallow well when you open up more faucets to use more water. Proven science even though very few people understand how pumps really work. See the video about pump curves. Thanks
In my basement, I have a 55 gallon pneumatic storage tank (20-40 psi, fed by typical submersible well pump/tank combo 100 ft away) prior to a Simer booster pump that increases pressure about 25-30 psi to around 65-70psi, feeding an 86 gallon bladder tank and house fixtures. The pump has its own (internal) on/off non-adjustable pressure switch. There are check valves and relief valves where needed, and a pressure reducing valve prior to the pump to prevent it from increasing pressure beyond 75 psi max. How might a CSV work in this system?
Wow! Sounds like a mess. A 55 gallon size pressure tank only holds 12 gallons of water. It is just a pressure tank, not a storage tank. You should be able to get all the pressure you need from the well pump, and not need a booster pump and all the other stuff. The 55 gallon pressure tank is much larger than needed with a CSV, but will work fine. Just turn up the pressure switch on the well pump to 60/80, and set a CSV1A for 70 PSI strong constant pressure to the house. Then you will not need the extra boost pump, 86 gallon tank, pressure reducing valve, etc. The CSV system will work much better. last much longer, and deliver stronger pressure to the house.
Thanks for the reply. The well pump and old tank combo serve two homes, with the tank likely not having much capacity after many, many years, and piping so old that to mess with it would likely require a complete re-do. Regularly, the well pump combo delivered no more than a trickle. Meanwhile, in the pneumatic tank (air over water), the capacity is actually closer to 50/50, providing sufficient storage draw for the booster pump, as the well pump, again, has low flow, low pressure. So, getting back to the booster pump and bladder tank, these have totally corrected a decades-long problem of having little to no water after short periods of use. One problem that remains though is correcting pressure ranging (40-70) still present, since booster pump only turns on once pressure sufficiently drops. So, back to original question, would a CSV work between the booster pump and bladder tank to keep pressure more steady, or is it a problem there is no pressure switch downstream of the booster pump?
@@OccamsRazor71 If you are getting more than 25% water from a pressure tank, something is wrong with the tank. Your bandaid booster pump may have helped the pressure, but shouldn't be needed if the well pump is set up correctly. But yes the CSV will solve the cycling problem with the booster pump. But yes the pressure switch has to be after the CSV. Again, what kind of booster pump do you have?
Does the well pump continue to try and make water at the usual pump flow rate? There does not appear to be any current limits placed on the submersible pump by the CSV that I can see. There is no electrical control going on between the pump and the CSV. Correct me if I'm wrong but,I can understand how when there are several things using water at the same time, the CSV might eliminate a cycle on on and off , however how would this save energy, and save your pump from excessive wear? Putting a restriction on the flow of water leaving the pump seems like a dead heading measure. The pump continues to pump at it's usual force but is held back by the CSV regulator. If there were a lessening of energy sent to the pump , wouldn't that be a method of throttling it vs physically impeding the flow? Please explain and thank you for the video.
Those are very good questions. The CSV can never completely close, so it can never deadhead a pump. There is no electric to the CSV. Pumps just normally reduce in amperage when restricted with a valve of any kind. Here is a video to explain the technical stuff. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Throttling down the flow to 50 GPM is making the pump work harder. Harder = more power to overcome a restriction. I'm sorry but where I come from it takes the life out of the pump and will shortens it life. Not to mention the added energy cost. Am I missing something?
@@dantedenardis1385 Yeah you are missing a lot! Pumps work just the opposite of the way you are thinking. Pumps work easier when the flow rate is reduced, not harder. The energy a pump uses decreases not increases when the flow is restricted, which increases not decreases the life of a pump. Pumps are counter intuitive, which is why you are thinking wrong. See this video for a more technical explanation. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Okay I might have learned just something new in this. Youare right , it is counter intuitive to think that the harder a pump pushes through a reduced orifice the less energy it is going to use. Thanks for giving me something to think about at 3am ....lol
@@dantedenardis1385 I am glad someone besides me is up at 3AM thinking about this stuff. Lol. It is one of the hardest things to explain. I have tried many ways in almost 30 years and still get the same question everyday. It is the centrifugal impeller that is the magical thing here. It only draws a load depending on how much weight it is lifting. The actual definition of horsepower is the ability to lift 33,000# of weight one foot in one minute. One gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds. It takes a lot more HP to lift 50 gallons a minute than is does to lift 1 gallon a minute. Restricting the pump to make this happen causes the impeller(s) to just spin in nice cool lubricant and not draw any load, as they don't actually touch anything.
our water system goes out intermittently. we want to install a 5000L holding tank . the water fills the tank fron the main water source. i dont want the pump to run 24hrs per day. the pump is installed after the tank..will the Cycle stop valve also go after the pump ob this type of application?
The pump should be installed after the holding tank, but prior to a pressure tank. The CSV would go after the pump and before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV only causes the pump to run when you are using water. But if you use water 24 hours a day, the CSV will make the pump run 24 hours a day, which is a good thing. Without the CSV the pump would cycle on/off to death when using water for long periods of time.
Cool video! This valve may help me out a lot, but I am curious how this will work while making RO water. I have 400 GPD unit and I'm not exactly sure how many Gpm it uses while I'm making water, but my RO usually runs all of 10-15 hours every few days. The pump runs every 30-40 minutes while i am making water, and is on for about 15-20 minutes before it kicks back off. Will the csv keep the pump on for the entire time the RO unit is running?
My math shows 400 gallons in 10 hours is 0.6 of a GPM. A jet pump with a CSV1A will stay running with flows down to about 0.5 GPM, and a submersible will stay running with as little as 1.0 GPM. So, if you have a submersible just use a little larger tank than normal with the CSV. Although it will still cycle, it will be a very slow cycle. With a 40 gallon size tank that holds 10 gallons of water, you supply pump will be still have to come on every 30-40 minutes.
great video, and your assertion that even most plumbers don't understand the amp relationship to pressure. I'm on a well established well with `75' calculated head. even though the well is established, every now and again - usually after 4 days straight of rain, the water can be a bit more cloudy than normal. I have a question about order of devices. Would it be OK if the first device once the water line comes into the house is a sediment filter? It's a "high flow" water filter - translated means it basically only catches the bigger sediment. Would I be impacting the life/value/performance of the CSV?
The CSV125 valves do not like sand, but the CSV1A can handle quite a bit of sediment. However, it is always best to keep sand and sediment out of the CSV when possible. And as long as the filter is rated for the max pressure the pump can build, the filter can go before the CSV. Give me a pump model number and the depth to water in the well and I can tell you how much pressure will be on the filter before the CSV.
the well pump is 2ST52-12PLUS-P4-2 50' calculated head 200' distance to well with rise of 20' I was hoping to set csv to maintain 55. do think that would be possible?
That pump can only make 103 PSI max. If your water level is 75', that pump can only deliver 70 PSI to the surface. So yes you can run the CSV at 55 PSI with a 40/60 pressure switch. However, at 75' lift plus 55 PSI that pump can only produce 7 GPM. If you use more than 7 GPM the pressure will be lower than 55 PSI. As long as the filter is rated for 100 PSI or better it will be fine installed prior to the CSV.
I have city water, but live up a hill and about 2000 feet from the water meter. I have a basic pump in a pump house about 1000 feet from the water meter that pushes the water up the hill, and then a water pressure booster under the house in the crawlspace (DruaMac brand). I am noticing that when I flush the toilet too many times in a row, too rapidly, the water turns off and I have to cycle the GFCI connected to the water pressure booster and then it turns back on. Similar behavior when I run a load of laundry with a front load washer (the valves opening and closing for the washing machine seem to trip up the water pump and the pump turns off, and then I have to again reset the GFCI it's connected to). I think I have a CSV installed in my system because when I turn on the kitchen sink, or the shower, the pressure starts low, then builds to the highest pressure and stays there the entire time it is in use. Recently though, I have noticed (and I am not sure if it is because of a heat wave we are experiencing) but I will be using just the kitchen sink and the water will die. GFCI switch isn't popped or anything, but I will reset it to cycle the power on the water pressure booster, and the water turns back on. Any ideas what is happening here? Thanks!
Don't think you have a CSV. The type pump you have uses a flow switch type control and electronic sensors. Probably doesn't even have a pressure tank, and wouldn't help much anyway. There needs to be flow through the pump or the pressure needs to drop pretty low before the electronics trigger the pump to start. Usually by the time the pressure gets low enough to trigger the pump there is no flow to help either. However, you shouldn't need more than one pump anyway. Just up the pressure on the first booster until you no longer need the second booster. A small pressure tank and a CSV on the first booster would let you set it to any pressure you want. Then you would have strong constant pressure all the time.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 thanks the reply. So the booster does have a little tank attached (size I am not sure of but it is fairly small bc it is sitting on top of the pump itself). I think I have to have both pumps due to the distance and hill and I doubt I could get any decent pressure from just the one pump that is about 800 feet from the house and at the bottom of the hill. I just can't seem to figure out what is causing the water pressure pump under the house to keep turning off during random use scenarios... it has also been hot lately here and just using the kitchen sink or the garden hose will cause the water pressure pump to essentially die (throw a fault or something) and require me to power cycle it.
@@TheDreadnought Still think one booster is all you need. Do this all the time. But if you want either or both booster pumps to work and not give problems, using a Cycle Stop Valve and a small pressure tank with a pressure switch is the most reliable method.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I'd love to just have the one pump. I think it would simplify things a lot. I'd probably have to have a pretty powerful pump to get it up the hill and across the estimated distance and still be usable in the house. Right now the pump in the pump house is an F&W booster pump and is 1hp. What brand/model do you recommend for something like what I need? TY
@@TheDreadnought It can nearly always be done with only one pump. I have systems that are set for 400 PSI, to deliver 50 PSI to a community that is on top of a 800' tall mountain. However, I also have systems that pump for 20 miles, then is picked up by another pump system that pumps another 20 miles, and so on for over 200 miles. Just need to figure the exact lift or height in distance and the friction loss to know what size pump is needed and what pressure to set the CSV to deliver. Just need to know the height of the mountain. Lol! Just call us and we will help you figure it out.
As I figured the 40-60 psi difference compresses the air in the tank to about a third of its volume. So for a 60 litre tank you get about 20 liters of extra water in there that you can use before the pressure drops to 40psi and the pump kicks in. So running a 300l bath will cycle the pump on and off 15 times.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I know I was counting without the CSV. It's just that the hard part to figure out is how much volume of water really leaves the pressure tank between 40 and 60 PSI of the air. According to my rough math it would be about 20 litres for a 60l tank but correct me if I'm wrong please.
I have a multiple wells setup feeding a network. Im wondering how could I use CSV/pressure switch/tank setup so that each wells start when needed and shuts off when the demand decreases.
Sure we do that all the time. You just stagger the pressure switch and CSV settings so the highest pressure pumps come on first and the lowest pressure ones last. I have one system with eleven well pumps scattered across a sub-division. We give each pump 3 PSI difference from the last, like 60/80, 57/77, 54/74, and so on. Here is a link to an animation with two pumps you can play with. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/home-two-well-system
I’m using. Red jacket jet pump with the pressure control valve attached to the pump and the pressure line going to the prop housing housing, would i have to change this to make the csv work. Move after the CSV valve.
My well water goes to a filtering and water softening and then reverse osmosis, to sit in a big tank, which then has it's own pump aside from the well water pump. How would this work with or even be needed?
You would need the CSV on the booster pumping out of the storage tank. You could also use a CSV on the well pump and have it set up to pump directly from the well in the case your booster at the storage tank quits on New Years day.
I'm not so sure I agree with your theory many companies have tried "so called tankless gadgets" My Grundfos SQE and CU301 controller is a true variable speed well pump. It seems like the CSV is the "Gadget" to harness the old traditional well pump and pressure tank system. The truth is, I use the Grundfos and Goulds Aquavar ABII because of the true variable and the soft start ability. My solar inverters don't like the initial 60 amp surge at startup of a standard well pump. Your example of how a typical well pressure system works is excellent. My system is a little bit rare and your CSV is a much more economical way of doing almost the same thing.
It is the other way around. The SQE was introduced in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure of the Cycle Stop Valve that was introduced in 1993. They wanted something to produce constant pressure that would not make pumps last forever like a CSV. The CSV and variable speed pump both vary the flow and deliver constant pressure. The PWM or pulse width modulator, which is a VFD, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption compared to the simple Cycle Stop Valve. The mechanical CSV does in one simple step what a VFD takes thousands of bits and bytes and components to computerize and line up correctly to accomplish the same task. I agree you need a soft start if you are forced to live on solar. But you don't need variable speed to get soft start. The SQE pump is just a full speed SQ pump when a simple pressure switch is used instead of the CU301 controller. But it still has the 5 second soft start built into the motor. The SQ pump has become fairly reliable even though it spins 3 times as fast as a normal pump. It is the CU301 most people have problems with and have to expensively replace on a regular basis. That is when most people find us as they are looking for an alternative to the CU301. Amazingly, the SQ pump has almost as good of a drop in amps when restricted with a CSV as when slowed with the CU301 (VFD). Replacing the CU301 with a Cycle Stop Valve and normal pressure switch makes the SQ pump many times more reliable and long lasting. As neither the SQE or Aquavar are "tankless" like the ones you quoted me discussing, the existing little tank will also be fine with the CSV. I like "rare" systems. I have never seen one where the CSV couldn't do as good or better than a VFD. Yes, the CSV is more economical, but it is also simpler and makes pumps last longer than a VFD. You also won't loose the soft start feature when replacing the CU301 with a CSV. And although soft start is helpful with inverters or generators, varying the speed with a VFD causes the pump to use more Kw per gallons produced. You get more gallons per Kw from your solar or batteries if you use a full speed pump to fill a pressure tank as quickly as possible and let the pump shut off. A VFD is just a Rube Goldberg gimmic when it comes to pumping water. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/vfd-repair-kit
Hi, I really appreciate you do this kind of video. I have a problem with my well pump system. I just got a new well borehole drill and a new Pressure tank with pressure switch, Cycle Stop Valve installed. The water pressure build up to 60psi and cut off fine, but when a valve is open the pressure drains quickly down to zero and shut off the pump. I tried everything to no avail. Is there anything wrong with my system? Unfortunately, it is out of the country and no one has any idea of how it works. Would you happen to know what could be causing the pump to shutdown when a valve is opened? Your kindly response will be very much appreciated.
With a 40/60 pressure switch, the pump should come back on as soon as the pressure drops to 40. The CSV really has nothing to do with that. Either the pressure switch is not turning the pump back on for some reason, or the overload in the pump is tripping on startup. You might also have a low pressure cut off lever on the side of your pressure switch that you must hold to get the pump started. If that is the case, you could have too much air charge in the tank, causing the pressure to bottom out before the pump starts. 40/60 switch , needs 35 PSI air in the tank when empty of water.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank so much for your quick response and the insight. I have two pressure switches, one with the cut off lever on the side and the other without it. Both have the same issue. At first, I thought it was a low water level in the well, so it was replaced the with regular one without the cut off lever but still does the same. I think the air pressure in the tank may be the issue as you mentioned. I will have them check that. I really appreciate your input. thank you.
@@egyahechie3171 Using a regular pressure switch without the lever on the side, the pump should start when the pressure drops to 40 no matter what. I am guessing you have a bad start capacitor and the overload in the motor is tripping on start up. What do you have to do to get the pump started again?
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you so much for your input. After troubleshooting, we found out that a stone was blocking the check valve causing water to gush back to the well and turning the pump off. After removing the stone the cut-in and cut-off works fine @ 40/60 psi. thank you so much and I appreciate your quick response.
The SQ pump works very well with a CSV. You just don't need the CU301 box. Get a PK1A kit and remove the CU301 and it will give years of trouble free service.
I have been in our new ( to us) home and this is my first well. The pressure seems to take a very long time to recover,the pump is very new ( jet pump) and the pressure tank is fairly new also. One question is location of the pressure tank, mine has been placed in the well with the jet pump on a shelf. My well is about 4’ in diameter and 17’ deep approximately. The house is probably 150-200’ from the well with a small incline to the house. I was going to swap the pump for a submersible and then move the tank to under the house but wonder if adding this valve will take care of my issue? Thanks for your time,enjoyed the video!
I don't understand the tank in the well with a jet pump? But the CSv will give you strong constant pressure and work with a much smaller pressure tank.
Cycle Stop Valves gotcha, it is physically located in the well just not in the water lol, i did say it is on a shelf in the well. The tank is after the pump. I just thought the pressure tank was supposed to be at the house, not that far away?
Does it make any sense to use a CSV when using a Simple Pump designed to hand pump water to a pressure tank in a power outage? In that case it would seem you would want the largest pressure tank possible without a CSV.
I don't think you want to hook the Simple pump up to the pressure tank. Pumping against the 40 PSI would be like lifting water an additional 92', which will make it much harder to pump. The only hand pumps I have seen pump zero pressure into a bucket when the power is out.
Great animation. I am on a shared mutual well with about 70 homes. The pressure is ok, around 40. The house came with an old irrigation pump and two large tanks to accelerate water to farm and home. I replaced this with a Goulds constant flow variable pressure pump running 60/40 with a tiny ten gallon tank. The set up works great but i have a thump thump that occurs randomly throughout the day even though the breaker to the pump is off and I had a new brass ball check valve installed between pump and main line (to the shared well). When I bypass the pump entirely i have no check valve and can hear and feel vibration throughout the house as neighbors water their homes, yards, etc. The thumping only occurs when the pump is in line on or off electrically. My guess is the tank is making the noises. But why? What is making my tiny tank thump in the middle of the night when no water is being used, the pump is powered off by breaker and there is a new check valve?
Bladder tanks will thump when the pressure decrease below the air charge in the bladder. With 38 PSI air charge, the bladder hits the bottom of the tank anytime pressure falls below 38 PSI. Reducing the air charge in the tank will probably stop the the water hammer thump. Then all you need to do is get rid of that Tar Baby of a variable speed pump, install a regular jet pump with a Cycle Stop Valve, and you will have a pump system that will last 30 years in stead of maybe 3 years. Also, we make larger CSV's for larger pumps. The shared well for 70 homes could use a CSV even more than a small pump. The CSV would deliver better pressure to the 70 house, make the pump system last much longer, cut expenses greatly for pump control equipment, reducing cost to all concerned. We would only need an 80 gallon size pressure tank to do 70 homes with a CSV.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks for your response. As a member of the mutual well water company I have no real say in how the water is delivered to the home. I bought the home with a meter at the street, 165 feet from my home. The company has a 60,000 gallon tank several hundreds or a thousand feet up on a hill that basically gravity feeds water to the 70 or so members down the line. When I bought the house it had a very loud electric pump and two 200 gallon bladder tanks. The property is one acre. Goats, chickens, vineyard and fruit trees on irrigation. The house is 3.5 bath with fire sprinkler system, California. I switched to the tar baby Goulds pump because it is whisper quiet and much more powerful than the old pump which was very noisy. Unfortunately the pump and piping was set up adjacent to the house, rather than farther away so every time the old pump came on you could hear it in the bedrooms above it. I will adjust the bladder pressure and see if i cant get rid of that hammering. Thanks for your help.
@@diegoroswell302 A fire system usually requires you to have a storage tank of your own? A submersible pump in the storage tank would supply more water and better pressure than a jet or centrifugal pump, and would be not just whisper quiet, but completely silent. You will need to make some changes soon as those Aqua-boost type pumps are not known to last very long. I just hope it doesn't quit you when you have a fire and really need it. :(
I bought a new pressure tank but the only one they had was a 30-50 so that’s the pressure switch I bought, my old system was 40-60, I haven’t hooked it up yet, will I have noticeably less water pressure at my shower? Thanks
Yes you would notice the lower pressure. All pressure switches are the same. Just tighten the large adjustment screw three times to the right and you will have a 40/60 switch.
@@shanek6582 You always need 2-5 PSI less air pressure in the tank than the pump start pressure, where ever that ends up happening. May need a little trial and error as three turns may not be exact. Just don't mess with the little adjustment screw.
No. The power only goes down, not up. The CSV decreases the power needed and makes the motor run cooler. Varying the power is a good thing as long as it goes down.
What will keep this type of unit from burning out the pump motor if the well only produced 7GPM. and the out door hose puts out 23 GPM? How long will it take to run the well dry?
The CSV would have nothing to do with that problem. If your well only makes 7 GPM and you are letting out 23 GPM, the well will be pumped dry as soon as the extra water stored in the wells static level is depleted. Can probably only run 23 GPM for 10 minutes or so before you pump a 7 GPM well dry. Now if you have a 23 GPM pump and the well only makes 7 GPM, then if you only open up 7 GPM or less, the CSV will make the 23 GPM pump only put out 7 GPM or the exact amount you are using, so in this way the CSV can help keep from pumping the well dry. In low yield wells the Cycle Sensor will protect the pump if the well runs dry. Using the Cycle Sensor for protection and in combination with a Cycle Stop Valve will let you get the most out of any low producing well.
I agree a weak producing wells need a large tank, but that would be a storage tank, not a pressure tank. A large pressure tank is just seen as an extra demand, and actually makes the problem worse. All the water from a pressure tank is used up as the pressure drops from 60 to 40 PSI, before the pump is even started. Then when the pump is started, the pressure tank is completely empty, and the pump/well is having to supply the water you are using while at the same time try to refill the pressure tank. Most of the time the pressure just stays low and the tank is not refilling while you are using water. Then when you stop using water, the tank has to be refilled from 40 to 60 PSI, requiring the well to produce another 10-20 gallons or so, after you have already depleted the well while taking a shower. So the well didn't get pumped dry while you were in the shower, now it will pump dry while trying to refill the pressure tank. If your well only makes 1-3-5 GPM, that is all you will be able to use unless you store some water, which requires a storage tank and booster pump, not a large pressure tank. There are 1440 minutes in a day. If yours well only makes 1 GPM, that is still 1440 gallons per day, which is enough to supply 5-7 houses all the water they want, IF YOU CAN STORE 1440 GALLONS. Here is a link to a drawing of a storage tank/booster pump system. The booster pump system using the CSV can supply multiple houses as well while using a very small pressure tank. It just needs some water to work with, which is where the storage tank comes in. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1840.0
I have chicken houses. So at times I have water running all day for cool cell pads. Is it better to let the pump cycle (without CSV) giving it a chance to rest or (with the CSV) would the pump be OK running all day?
Pumps do not need to rest. Pumps are made for "continuous duty". They will last longer running 24/7 than if it cycles on and off even a few times per day. I have a pump feeding a stock tank that hasn't shut off in 15 years. Just like a diesel engine in a truck, they are made to run 24/7. Start and stop them 50-100 times a day and you will need a new one shortly.
The CSV is just a simple valve. It cannot and doesn't need to control motor speed, just water flow. The pump only runs continuously when you use water, as compared to cycling on and off while you use water, which is bad for pumps.
Barely installed it but noww.... My problem is the left side of my home shower gets more pressure than the right side of home shower,but my well is closer to the left side shower tho...how can I raise pressure or watever to reach other end of home?🤦🏻♂️.....
The CSV will work with any pressure tank. However, a bladder or diaphragm type tank is best. Then yes all you need is to add the CSV before your tank and before any water lines or hydrants tee off. If it is not a bladder/diaphragm style tank it takes a little more consideration to work with an air maker system, but it will still work.
What if the pumps max pressure rating is 5 bar @ 75 Gpm & if I required 6 bar outlet pressure at same flow rate can I get the same if there is pressure vessel
The only way you can get 6 bar pressure from a pump that can only do 5 bar max is to have at least 1 bar inlet pressure to the pump. A pressure vessel can only store the pressure it is given, it cannot increase the pressure.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Your example shows a 25gpm pump @ 50psi, how then can the pressure switch turn off at 60 psi? Turns on at 40psi yes but from what you just said the pump can only push 50psi out to the tank and the tank can only store the pressure it is given. How then can the tank reach a pressure of 60psi to turn the pump off?
@@waltermelyon4300 Because the CSV is set at 50 PSI and will maintain 50 PSI when using more than 1 GPM. But the CSV cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So when no water is being used the 1 GPM "leaking" through the CSV has no place left to go except the tank. The tank is filled at 1 GPM until it is full to 60 PSI and the pressure switch shuts off the pump.
Question... My water pressure from the pump alone is not so great. With this system I can't increase the water pressure and am at the mercy of my pump, correct?
Maybe not. If your pump is cycling on and off while using water and experiencing low pressure, you maybe able to turn up the pressure and even use a Cycle Stop Valve to get much stronger constant pressure. What model pump do you have, and does it cycle on and off while using water at low pressure?
I see the advantage of a CSV when you are plumbed directly to the well. Any advantage if you are gravity fed from storage tanks to the pressure pump? For example 2.5 GPM well > 6000Gal tank > pressure pump > 40gal pressure tank > filters > house
It doesn't matter if it is gravity fed to the pump, drawing from a storage tank, or a well, anytime you have a system that requires water to automatically come on when you open a faucet or turn on the irrigation you need a Cycle Stop Valve. CSV's work great on booster pumps as well as submersible pumps. It doesn't matter if you are boosting city water pressure, well, or tank water.
There are several cities in the Philippines that use the large Cycle Stop Valves instead of a water tower. We ship to the Philippines quite often, one just last week. Call us or email and we can get one headed your way.
A CSV with a small pressure tank actually works better with low producing wells than a system with a large pressure tank. A large pressure tank is just an additional demand for a weak producing well to supply. If the well is really weak, a cistern storage tank with a booster pump and a CSV is best.
Do you have a diagram on setup this system . my house has kitchen sink-dishwasher -lavatory sink- bathtub -toilet and how much is the [Cycle stop Values] and do I get it from you are hardware store let me know A.S.A.P
The CSV1A by itself is $179 including freight. The PK1A kit is $395 and has a new pressure tank, switch, gauge, relief valve, and everything you need to replace the pressure tank. You can get a diagram and order it here. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick
@@alanmcdowell977 You can see a picture at the link I posted. 50/70 is not a problem, you can order the PK1A set up that way. I would switch from the 4.5 gallon tank to the 10 gallon tank when going higher pressure as at higher pressure tanks hold less water.
I don't get why my faucet doesn't do the same thing. I have read all of the explanations and looked at the videos and I still don't get how it works. Unless it is some combination of the faucet running, the tank filling, the spring moving and the cut off switch set between 40 and 60 psi. It took me a while to understand a ground fault interrupter too. I guess I will just have to get one and hope it works.
A faucet is after the pressure tank/CSV and only controls how much water you are using. The CSV is before the pressure tank/pressure switch and controls how much water your pump is producing. The CSV knows how many faucets you have open, and makes the pump produce exactly the same amount. Without a CSV the pump is always producing more than the faucet is letting out, which causes the tank to fill and the pump to cycle on and off. The CSV just matches how much the faucets are putting out so there is no extra water to fill the tank. You could do the same thing as a CSV with a ball valve before the pressure tank if you stood there and manually controlled it. With a 40/60 pressure switch the CSV would be set to 50 PSI. So if you saw the pressure drop below 50 you could open the ball valve a little and if you saw the pressure increase above 50 you could close the ball valve a little. The CSV will automatically keep the system at 50 PSI no matter how much or how little water you are using. You can't do that with a faucet.
We sell a lot of CSV specifically to make on demand heaters work properly. Usually the 40 to 60 swing in pressure using the old pressure switch method will vary the flow in the shower head. At 40 the shower flow is low and the instant heater goes off. At 60 the shower flow is high and the instant heater comes on again. Some people call this a cold water sandwich. With a CSV holding a constant 50 PSI as long as you are in the shower an instant heater will stay on as it should and give you all the hot water you want.
I don't have the cold water sandwich situation although I'm familiar with it from when I had such in the late 80's... I had the on-demand installed 2 years ago and it has worked fine except for a drop in pressure for approx 15 seconds during a long shower before it comes back strong (and still hot). This only started in early December (4 months ago). A well service is coming out this afternoon. I'll see what he says and if he has ever heard of a cycle stop valve. I live in the boondocks and a lot of the service folks up here don't know about new developments in their trades because they simply haven't encountered anything since they first learned.
I have a jet pump and 6 gal pressure tank at the cottage. If I were to install this valve does it get installed between the pump and the pressure tank?
Yes. And you need to move the sensing line for the pressure switch to one of the extra ports on the CSV1A or to the line close to the pressure tank. You can also just add a new pressure switch and wire around the switch on the side of the motor as shown in our wiring instructions for "jet pumps". Thanks
@@cyclestopvalves8380 yes I understand about the sensing line moving to the valve. In this case how will the pump sense 60PSI to turn off. I was thinking to purchase the CSV125. Does it have a sensing port
@@truenorthmuskoka9077 The CSV125-3 will work with a jet pump, But there are no extra ports on the CSV125 like there are on the CSV1A. You would need a tee close to the tank to have a place to connect the pressure switch.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I already have a pressure switch at the pump. Why do I need another one near the pressure tank. My pump and tank are within 1 foot of each other.
@@truenorthmuskoka9077 You can still use that pressure switch if you want. The sensing line just needs to be extended to a tee at the pressure tank, which both the tank and switch need to be after the CSV125. Pump-CSV-pressure tank/pressure switch.
Yes you can. The CSV makes a big pump act like a small one when needed. So you can have a pump or pumps large enough to supply a huge city, and the CSV will make it act like a really small pump when only one shower in one house is being used at the time.
Absolutely not! Back pressure makes pumps last longer for several reasons. I am sorry you have not got this from the many videos on my channel showing how it works. So I will just say it plainly. Back pressure reduces the amps and makes the pump/motor run cooler. Back pressure can also reduce the amount the pump is putting out. This is how a CSV makes the pump stop cycling, as cycling is the worst thing you can do to a pump.
Nice learning video. We install 1 hp 18-25 gpm submersible pump and a 75 psi over pressure relief valve in systems with pump start only or without overpressure relief valve using a PSI tank. Using a 25 gpm pump, pump start and over pressure relief valve with a small irrigation zone or someone using a water hose at 8-12 gpm with a csv limiting the output psi to 50 psi, the water not used creates back pressure before the csv. The back pressure increases as less system water is being used, up to whatever the pump can generate in a closed system? Which is better for the pump 1) to design the zone to run at 50 psi. 2) Use a CSV and let the pump run with whatever back pressure it can achieve up to the over pressure relief valve while small amounts of water are being used (garden hose) 3) Design zones to match say 75% of the pumps rated output and let the csv do its job, noting a back pressure 25% water output isn't enough to shorten the life of the pump?
Well first let me say that even a back pressure of 99% is not going to hurt the pump. As long as you are flowing at least 1 GPM, the pump/motor will be fine. It is actually easier on the pump/motor (draws lower amps, runs cooler) when restricted to 1 GPM, than when running at maximum flow. We always recommend a pressure relief valve, even with a pressure tank/pressure switch. However, the relief valve needs to go after the CSV, not before. With a CSV setting of 50 PSI using a pump start relay, set the pressure relief to 60 PSI. In this way when the gophers eat the wires going to the sprinklers and the pump start relay starts the pump anyway, at 60 PSI the pressure relief will pop off the 1 GPM coming through the 50 PSI CSV to keep the motor cool. Same thing with a 40/60 pressure switch, except set the pressure relief valve for 70 PSI. This way the pop off valve will still dump 1 GPM, keeping everything cool, if the pressure switch fails to shut the pump off at 60 PSI. As for which is better for the pump, a 50 PSI CSV using a small tank and a 40/60 switch is best. In this way the pump starts with pressure against it, which is much easier on a pump than when starting with no pressure from a pump start relay, which causes upthrust. Again back pressure (when starting or running the pump) is much easier on a pump/motor than when starting or running at full pump capacity (no back pressure). Now matching every zone to exactly to the pumps output is more efficient. But it is usually almost impossible to make every zone exactly 18 or 25 GPM. There are always a few zones that need to be smaller to fit the size of the yard. The closer you can get the zone size to the output of the pump the more efficient, but it isn't going to cost much extra to have some small zones as well. When restricting the pump with a CSV, the amps or energy consumption will also drop, so it is not much less efficient and much easier to design when simply matching the zones to the size of the yard, and letting the CSV adjust the pumps flow accordingly.
Cycle Stop Valves Understand all except the pump regulating its amperage based on water demand. Haven't read where an electric motor regulates its amperage base on a water restriction. I figured the pump amperage was the same regardless therefore the psi before the csv was higher. Thank you for your time.
I know right! It is just the opposite of what you think. But it is written as plain as the nose on your face in every pump curve. Larger pumps usually have a separate curve just for horsepower. And smaller pumps are no different, they just usually don't show the horsepower. Some like Grundfos curves show HP on small pumps as though. Here is a link to a video I made about the amp drop as flow is restricted. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
Bob-the-Pilot, try to visualize the pump as a weight lifter. The weight lifter can dead lift 300 pounds over his head - but, it takes all of his strength to do it, right? And, if he dead lifts 50 pounds over his head, it's a lot easier, isn't it? The pump is the same. It can deliver 25 gallons per minute, but it takes all of its strength to do that. But, delivering 1 gallon per minute is easy, isn't it? The harder the pump has to work, the more current it is going to use.
It is just a valve. It controls the flow. You don't need anything to vary the pump speed, pumps naturally drop amps when the flow is restricted. See this. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
"Head pressure" is what a pump does. Even though your well is 150' deep and the pump maybe set at 145', it is still only lifting from the actual water level. So lets say the water level in the well is 100' at the lowest. Then you need a pump that can produce a head pressure or lift from 100', plus deliver the pressure needed in the house. With a single story house I would only use a 40/60 pressure switch. But with 2 stories I prefer a 50/70 pressure switch setting, which with a CSV will give you 60 PSI constant while the water is being used. This 60 PSI needed can be converted to head in feet by multiplying 60 X 2.31 for an additional 138' of head. The 50/70 setting is already making up the extra needed for the 20' elevation of the 2 story house. So adding the 100' of actual lift in the well to the 138' of head needed to make the 60 PSI for the house, gives a total head needed of 238' the pump must deliver. Now picking a pump that will do maybe 10 GPM at 238' means you need a 10 GPM, 3/4 HP pump. When using a CSV the head pressure on the pump will increase when you are using less than 10 GPM. When the CSV makes the pump produce only 1 GPM, because you are only using 1 GPM at the time, the pump will be seeing a head pressure of 310', which is the same as 134 PSI. So when using 10 GPM the CSV lets the pump draw from 100' and produce the 60 PSI needed in the house. But when only using 1 GPM, the CSV makes the pump think the water is 310' deep, which is how the CSV make the 10 GPM pump produce only 1 GPM when needed.
I'm not an expert on motors and controls but with the little I know: I totally agree on the constant pressure and the cycling of the pump but the amperage load is what I don't agree. If you choke that line I would think the motor would feel the increase load meaning more amps, more electricity, more heat, and yes less life. I'm sure others think this way. If its a simple mechanical valve that opens and closes I can test this. So basically check amps on pump at regular operation and then start to choke it down with regular valve to see the amperage reading, my guess amps go UP. If they go down, I will buy three of these valves that same day (have three wells).
Yep the whole thing is counter intuitive. Everybody thinks restricting the output of a pump will make it work harder, when just the opposite is true. If the amps go up when the pump is restricted the thrust bearing in the motor is bad, which is how motor thrust bearings are checked. If the amps don't go down at all, you just have a bad designed pump, which there are a few of those like a 10 GPM Pentair pump. But the amps will reduce by 20-30% in most pumps, and the really good ones like a Grundfos the amps will drop by 50-60 %. Watch the video titled Pump Curves Technical Video if you want to see how the power drops off as the pump is restricted. Even though it is a normal characteristic of pumps, most people, even some pump engineers don't understand it.
Thanks for the response back. I really don't know what pumps are these brand/style wise, they were installed prior purchase of property. All I know is that they are submersible pumps in wells. It used to be a plant nursery (reason for the high water demand with three deep wells) so I assumed they used good stuff. I only use one well for irrigation (big well) and it does cycle when is running so I do want to extend the life. I've researched the prices on those pumps plus labor and is not cheap so a $400 investment makes all kinds of sense if it works. Thanks again.
Wouldn't still be here selling Cycle Stop Valves after 25 years if they didn't work. But I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard that statement. Nearly all pumps will have reduced amps when the flow is reduced. And there are NO pumps that will have an increase in amps when the flow is restricted. May not even be $400. If you already have a pressure tank and pressure switch, adding a CSV could be $63 or $174. But we match the CSV to the size of the pump, so will need a little info on the pump. If you do not have the pump model number, we can back into what we need with horsepower and GPM, even if you have to do a bucket test to figure that out. I am an old driller and pump installer, so I can help figure the size of pump if needed.
According to the previous owner, the big well that I use for irrigation is 300 ft deep and produces 60GPM thats all he knows. That is why im thinking the CSV2W will be a better fit. It irrigates in sections but at any given time up to 8 sprinkler heads could be running. Anyway I may try the smaller units (CSV125) on one of the small wells just to test it and then get the irrigation CSV which is $400 but if its going to triple the life of that pump, is well worth the money.
Jose M Solis Just because the well will make 60 gpm doesn't mean you have a 60 gpm pump. Measure how much come out of 1 sprinkler in a minute and multiply times 8. I'm guessing more like 25 gpm. Then don't use the CSV125 if your not sure how much pressure the pump can make.
I have a pressure tank that is going bad. it is inside a square block structure and I cannot get to the plumbing easily to replace or bypass. can I just install the stop valve combo kit inside the basement just before the water softener and not worry about removing the old tank. it is in good shape on the outside, this would essentially make it a storage tank? Also I would bypass the pressure switch at the well and wire it to the combo kit inside the basement. I just bought your kit online and wanted to start preparing for install once it arrives.
Every time the pump fails you are also out of water, on top of the cost of a new pump. Without a CSV a pump might last 2-5 years. With a CSV 20-30 years. Even $200 pumps would add up quick. $1000-$2000 pumps would break the bank. There are lots more advantages with a CSV besides just making the pump last. But not enough space or time here to go into that. Which is why we have a huge web page and lots of videos to explain as much as we can. All the best.
I still don't get it. I'm thinking the pump puts put a fixed amount of water per minute. If the pump puts out more volume than is being used what happens to the excess flow? In other words, how does the CS valve vary the volume to regulate the pressure? Seems like there is a narrow range where flow rate and water usage would be close enough to reduce the number of pump cycles. The diagram seems to show there is a balance between flow rate and consumption. Wouldn't think this would be to common. There is still going to be pump cycling but at a lesser amount...?
I am sorry you still don't get it. As you can see I have tried many ways to explain this simple valve. And it is a simple valve. It just closes to reduce the flow from the pump, making the pump think it is in a deeper well, which makes it pump less water. The CSV just cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So as long as you are using more than 1 GPM the pump NEVER cycles. When you are no longer using any water, the 1 GPM coming through the CSV has no place left to go except the pressure tank. Then the pressure tank is filled to the pump shut off pressure and the pump is shut off. The next time you use water you cause another cycle. The pump only cycles for each individual time you start using water. But the pump NEVER cycles as long as the water is running, like systems without a CSV do.
Awesome well explained video! Im definitely getting a CSV. I have a pressure tank system (well x trol professional) 80 gal. Way oversized for the house but with a csv the pressure drop goes away,outstanding! This vid has excellent detail for the novice or trained professional (maintenance mech for large steel corp.) Thanx again for the info.
Thanks for the kind words. I am glad it helped.
Yes, i need one as well.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I deleted my post for 2 reasons, I have only seen videos of why not to have a csv, They can be misinformation since I noticed a few sketchy things that make you doubt truth or lie. Common Sense tells you if you return the same water in a small test tank and cycle a pump, it's going to heat up so going to investigate further before making a statement that may not be right. Second, I do notice a big amp drop after start up so you may be right, keeping it running may allow it to run better and longer, Personal experience with jet pumps, I notice you can get double the life by just letting it run and I can say that with truth since I did just that, my old jet system never shut off on purpose, got tired of changing pressure switches and even a small issue, shut down, clear system, fix issue, waste time priming lines and rinse/repeat, I set it to run constant and had little issue's plus it stayed cooler, I switched to submersible and kept the same set up except my pump works so good, it fills the 30 gallon tank so fast it barely ever runs for 15 seconds every couple hours unless you use washer/tub/shower. Even then it barely cuts on, But if your csv does what it says, pump barely will ever run at even 50%, I would guess like jet pump, draw less power, never trip the pressure switch and still keep 33psi, the only question I have is what happens to back pressure from not using water, would that not build back pressure? My jet pump returned water in a loop but the sub has no return, what happens to back pressure? Pump would be pushing water with no where to go if nothing is being used.
@@Klemin2012
Thanks. You are starting to understand. There is no water being recirculated. If you are not using the minimum 1 GPM coming through the CSV, then the 1 GPM fills the pressure tank until the pump is shut off. Jet pumps don't drop much in amps, but are air cooled motors and doesn't make any difference on water flow for cooling. The back pressure will be as much as your pump can build when thinking the well is deeper, which is how the CSV controls flow. But no pump can build more pressure than it can stand. Back pressure is a good thing as that is what makes the amps drop and the motor to run cooler.
Hey its good to see you folks here, I bought two systems for chicken houses back in 07 , smooth running and honestly I have had no problems with this setup other than my plumbing, but I was moving some water with those 8lb birds. I'm going to add your valve to my house today borrowing one from the farm since I'm no longer in operation. I blame the bank, but I'm a deplorable so...but I got good water.
Excellent explanation of CSV. I was torn between CSV or VFD system for my new home and this has helped me make my decision. Thank you Cycle Stop Valves!
My main concern on the Cycle Stop Valve is the increase in backpressure. I've read many positive reviews on your website about them but also many of those same positive reviews have had fittings blow apart and or leaks due to the increased back pressure between the pump and pressure tank. Although I see the need to try and reduce pump cycle's the last thing I want to do is have to dig up a water line or pull the well pump due to fitting failure from the increase in back pressure. My Franklin Electric Pump lasted 23 years before needing to be replaced on the traditional pressure tank and switch system.
Back pressure is good for the pump, cannot be any more than your pump can make, and the CSV itself has a limit. I only know of one idiot who blew off the incoming pipe, he just posted it on Amazon, which we do not do business with, so they keep that post up top. Lol. If your pump lasted 23 years without a CSV, it would last 40-50 years with one. We have only done this about a million times over the last 30 years. So, look at your pump curve, figure out how little back pressure it can build, get over your concern, and start enjoying strong constant pressure instead of seeing that pressure go up and down over and over and over.
Really useful and well explained video! now I can understand the whole system better than before, Thank you!
This has been the best explanation I have seen and thank you.
Just one word Cary Austin....... INGENIOUS !!!
Very good illustration and explanation. Thank you. I understood the concept very well but in trying to explain it verbally to others when asked why I have such a small pressure tank, I get blank stares but showing this video clearly explains the concept.
I know the blank stare you are talking about. To be such a simple valve the CSV has a complicated explanation and a hundred ways to use it. I have tried for 25 years to find a better way to explain it. I am glad the animation video helped. :)
Excellent video! Answered the questions I had about how it works. Thanks!
Interesting device, sounds like a special kind of pressure regulator. If I had to make an educated guess: It is like an adjustable high flow regulator (set to 50psi in this example), with a secondary, very restricted path (1gpm) that bypasses the regulator. This bypass path only allows pressure on the output side of the regulator to gain more then the regulator setting when the flow is less then 1gpm, and is critical in making this work. Very clever!
Thank you. Yeah so simple it is scary. Lol! We tried to see these to all the pump companies back in the early 90's. Took us several years to find out they blacklisted the CSV. Pump companies said the CSV is a disruptive product as it makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks. Wow! Found something that makes pumps work better and last longer and the pump companies are doing everything in their power to discredit us and come up with variable speed pumps or Masscontrol flow switch controllers that don't make pumps last forever like a CSV does. Notice you don't hear from any of our customers from 20-30 years ago? The CSV made their pump systems work so well and last so long they forget they even have a pump system. When water comes out the faucet everytime you open it, you will never have to think about your pump system again.
Thank you for adding the back pressure valve in the illustration. People need to know/see that there is excessive back pressure being restricted to this side of the pumping system. I know you have "proven" that this back pressure will do less damage to the pump than damage to the motor from more cycling, but this back pressure can get in excess of 150psi... Good valves though, I use them in a few different applications.
There can never be "excessive" backpressure with a Cycle Stop Valve. The CSV itself cannot handle "excessive" backpressure. The only time you would have excessive backpressure is if you have a 100' deep well with a pump designed for say 500'. And that is not going to happen because the CSV will not even work in an application like that. The CSV will only work with less than 125 PSI differential pressure. So if you have the CSV set for 50 PSI, there cannot be more than 175 PSI coming from the pump. Many pump companies want you to think the CSV causes "excessive" backpressure. They don't want you to get the benefits of a CSV, because it will make your pump last longer. So they try to scare people talking about "excessive" backpressure, which in reality CANNOT happen.
Thanks! Well done, flow control, and pressure control. Much better system.
Brilliant animation. I live in an area that is close to the reservoir and the pressure is within spec but only just. I am thinking of installing a pressure booster system.
Cycle Stop Valves work just as good on booster pumps as on well pumps.
The CSV sounds like a great idea. I also have some thoughts on the pressure tank. I think well tanks are poorly designed, possibly to avoid coating the inside of the tank. My thought is that the bladder should be for air rather than water. The bladder shape would not be critical and replacement could be through a port located on top of the tank for easy access so a homeowner could just pick up a replacement at home depot and install it w/o even fully draining the tank.
There are bladder tanks and there are diaphragm tanks. Some bladder tanks have the air inside the bladder, some have water. All diaphragm tanks that I know of only have water under the diaphragm. The most important thing to make a tank last is to limit the pump cycling. With every pump cycle the diaphragm or bladder expands and contracts. it is like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks. It is only going to take so many bends. You could use up all the bends in a short time by letting the pump cycle on/off too much, or you can make a bladder/diaphragm last many years by reducing or eliminating the cycling by using a Cycle Stop Valve. The second most important part of making a tank last is getting one where the bladder/diaphragm does not touch the sides when expanding and contracting. It is hard to make a bladder that doesn't touch the tanks sides, and easy to make a diaphragm expand and contract without touching the tank. Oh, and tanks with replaceable bladders are the worst, as they are made to need replacing regularly. In other words diaphragm tanks are better than bladder tanks, but any tank will last longer when working with a Cycle Stop Valve.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! I find that Wellmate makes a fiberglass well tank with a top replaceable air cell. They apparently have a quick disconnect for the plumbing as well. I just recharged my bladder tank idf I have to replace it I am considering a Wellmate tank and a CSV.
@@shofar-man The bag or bladder in a well mate tank tends to wrinkle when it expands and contracts. The fold or wrinkle is where it will break. Look at the flex lite. They are fiberglass with a diaphragm.
CSV sounds like a great way to blow you pipes apart or cause leaks as the back pressure greatly increases from 125 psi to over 300psi
CSV sounds like a great way to increase your energy usage, it takes a lot more energy to increase water pressure from 125 psi to over 300 psi.
CSV sounds like a great way to wear out your pump as the water vanes have 300PSI vs 115psi wearing against them.
If you want constant pressure, invest in a freq drive pump.
All that was debunked over 30 years ago, which is also how long we have been using Cycle Stop Valves to replace VFD's or Variable Frequency Drives. I thought VFD's were great as well back in the late 80's and early 90's. Then I got smart and figured out pump amps will drop naturally without varying the speed. When I figured out a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical (no electric) valve was a better pump control than a VFD I never looked back. Someday maybe you will get smart too. All you have to do is research or test it for yourself to figure out everything you said is incorrect. You can't get a better pump control than a Cycle Stop Valve.
Very well informative video! I was looking into one these CSV and wanted to know more. Thanks!
You can go to our web page at Cyclestopvalves.com or call us at 806-885-4445.
wow thanks! My well pump is always on and off when I water my lawn and shower and stuff. I thought something was wrong with my tank but now I know it doesn't hold anything. I need this bad. the pump was replaced 8 years ago when I bought the house and don't know if a variable pump in the ground.
Even the new variable speed pumps just turn on and off all the time you are using water. But if you have a regular pressure switch it is probably not a variable speed pump and the Cycle Stop Valve will solve your problem and give you strong constant pressure in the shower.
I think I buy your thoughts, it makes sence to me. My pressure tank is a small one and when I water in my lawn my pump just keep going on and off. Will consider get one. Thanks.
Could you please make a video that dismantles a Cycle Stop Valve and explains its internal workings. Thanks.
That would be nice. I will work on that when I have time. Thanks!
Bloody great video... and so well narrated...
This may be an ignorant question and if so you have my apologies. I am purchasing a newly built home with a well. I am trying to understand how the well systems work and so far this was the best description of the two main pressure systems, so thank you. I would like to know where in these systems would you put the water softener, reverse osmosis, and other filtering systems. Should you put something before and after or just after?
Thank you! All filters, softeners, and such should be placed after the CSV/pressure tank on the line going to the house. Keep in mind filters and softeners lose quite a bit of pressure through them. So, you may want to set up your system with 60 PSI constant from the CSV using a 50/70 pressure switch instead of the usual 40/60 pressure settings.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 thank you so much. Have a great weekend
I am looking to make an irrigation system for my orchard and garden. I am also going to add a few hydrants along the way. I want to pull water out of my creek and was looking at different setups. I have a good pump and old bladder from an old setup. With this Valve, do I still need to use a bladder tank? what is the point of the tank if the valve bypasses the tank?
Great video, very interesting and informative. Thanks.
I have a well with a submersible pump but water comes out for only about 7-12 minutes depending on the time of the year. I am wanting to add a cabin on my property and plan on burying a water cistern near the house. I am going to buy a timer switch for the well pump so that it comes on multiple times per day and will fill into the cistern. Since I am only there on weekends or maybe once a month I should be able to capture enough water in cistern to service my cabin, sprinkler system and maybe a drip irrigation system. My plan is to put a submersible pump in the cistern and run it to a little pump house and then out from there. Your video makes sense and I am thinking I need your kit with the CSV. I have limited knowledge of these types of systems so I am wondering what type of submersible pump I need for my cistern (HP and GPM) to make all of this work using your system. Thanks.
How many GPM's do you have running for 7-12 minutes to pump the well dry? Even a well that only makes 1 GPM can still give you 1440 gallons every day. You need a Cycle Sensor for the well pump to protect it from running dry, and it will be your timer as it is built into the Cycle Sensor. You can use a Cycle Sensor on the cistern pump as well, so it shuts off if the cistern is run dry. Because of the price many people are using the 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark pumps in cisterns. I prefer the 230V version. Used in combination with our PK1A kit you can have all the water you want at a strong constant pressure. See this link. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1841.0
So if my pump is capable of build 175psi, but my pipe before the cvs is 125psi pipe, wouldn't i need to worry about it blowing up the pipe? Older 1" black roll.
Yes. That is why we check those things when recommending a CSV. But usually there is only 30-50 PSI more on the pipe than the normal pressure that happens because of the depth of the well and the pressure on the pressure switch. If the pump is 260' deep when the pressure switch gets to 60 there is 175 PSI on the pipe at the bottom of the well, even without a CSV.
Great Presentation - solid job and kudos for you!
Thank you, I've been maintaining a well system for decades without understanding it completely. I've achieved ok results by using overkill on everything. I have recently installed a CSV but need to do more adjusting, as my pump still cycles
If you have a CSV and the pump is still cycling, just loosen the adjustment bolt on the CSV or increase the pressure setting of the pressure switch until the pump runs continuously while you are using water.
That worked well, I settled on 55 in a 40-60 system, and it is doing as advertised. The Animation got through my confusion like no written explanation has, excellent work, Thank you again.
well done, logical and well explained, thank you so much.
I'd love to install one but the poly pipe from my home to well is 45 years old and as I found out when digging down FOUR FEET to fix a leak, it's thin wall 100PSIG irrigation pipe! The NEXT time there's a leak I will hire a ditch witch and replace with proper 260PSIG 1 1/4" pipe and install a CSV set at 60 psig. My switch is set at 55/75 to keep my RO/DI watermaker happy. It's too large for a booster pump to be practical so there's that. Our Amtrol 87 gal tank only has about 22 gallons drawdown due to the higher pressure as well.
You probably only need 160# poly pipe. But they do make 250# if needed. First things first, you need new pipe. Then a CSV can hold a constant 70 PSI working with your 55/75 switch and 87 gallon tank. A constant 70 PSI will be much stronger than when cycling on and off between 55 and 75 as it is now.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Yes when there is a leak (and I'll know immediately as the system check valve is on the pump), I do plan on replacing the line. I want to overkill things as our soil is rocky and I believe that's where the problem lies. Even with careful backfilling, just don't want to deal with a break! I even thought of running conduit and pulling the pipe through that but that may be a bit much. The cycling is noticeable but not as bad as before when we had a 20 gallon tank with 4.8 gallon drawdown (55-75)! And if a toilet is flushed during a shower the water probably gets 15 degrees warmer for a few sec.
Miguel Vasquez
2 hours ago
I understand the long term use (Taking showers), but what about short term, flushing the toilet once wash your hands, seems like the pump will kick on filling the small tank rather then not kicking on having the bigger tank that will supply the water, not having the pump kicking on just because you flushed the toilet one time.
It is not the small things that cause cycling problems. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles on for every toilet flush, although it doesn't. What hurts is repetitive cycling during long showers or watering the yard. Your water doesn't come from the tank, it comes from the well/pump. Pressure tanks are only to reduce the on/off cycling, and when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is just a waste of money and space. See this chart for number of cycles with or without a CSV for just house use only. The CSV and small tank still cycle less than a large tank with no CSV. Then if you have any long term uses like yard watering, there is no comparison as the CSV will cycle the pump only once, while without the CSV the pump will cycle hundreds of times.
Average Cycles Pump Cycles for
Family of Four with No Irrigation
Cycle Stop Valve Pressure NO CSV CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI
Pressure Tank Size 20 Gallon 4.4 Gallon 10 Gallon 20 Gallon
Average Daily Cycles 35 31 25 18
I see, Thank you. I think I will be purchasing the CSV system sounds great, Thanks again.
does this run 220 or 110 current? I've scoured the web, but I can't find the answer.
The CSV doesn't connect to power in any way. It will work with any size pump running on any voltage needed.
Hi, can you please give me an advice on wich model or brand of thank should I get to pair it up with your CVS?
We have kits that come with either a 4.5 or a 10 gallon size tank, which works for most applications. 1HP or smaller pump running at 40/60 or less with a single family home only needs the 4.5 gallon size tank. Any larger family, extra house, 1.5HP pump or larger, or running higher than 40/60 pressure should use the 10 gallon size tank. More than a couple houses and I would use a 20 gallon size tank. Look at the kit model PK1A.
I understand the long term use (Taking showers), but what about short term, flushing the toilet once wash your hands, seems like the pump will kick on filling the small tank rather then not kicking on having the bigger tank that will supply the water, not having the pump kicking on just because you flushed the toilet one time.
It is not the small things that cause cycling problems. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles on for every toilet flush, although it doesn't. What hurts is repetitive cycling during long showers or watering the yard. Your water doesn't come from the tank, it comes from the well/pump. Pressure tanks are only to reduce the on/off cycling, and when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is just a waste of money and space. See this chart for number of cycles with or without a CSV for just house use only. The CSV and small tank still cycle less than a large tank with no CSV. Then if you have any long term uses like yard watering, there is no comparison as the CSV will cycle the pump only once, while without the CSV the pump will cycle hundreds of times.
Average Cycles Pump Cycles for
Family of Four with No Irrigation
Cycle Stop Valve Pressure NO CSV CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI CSV50 PSI
Pressure Tank Size 20 Gallon 4.4 Gallon 10 Gallon 20 Gallon
Average Daily Cycles 35 31 25 18
Thank you for the well informed video. What is your opinion on a whole house filter with a CSV? Should a filter be installed before the pump, between the pump and CSV, or after the CSV?
Normally filters are installed after the CSV/pressure tank.
Wonderful video. I’d love to see a video with a holding tank and dual float switches. We are buying a home with a well that produces 3.6 GPM. The pressure tank is bad and we have to do some work. I wanted to have a 400 gallon plastic holding tank in the basement with a jet pump. Any information on this kind of system would be greatly appreciated. I love the animation. Thanks again.
I don't have a video but I do have several drawings of a cistern pump set up. Here is a link to one in my forum. forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1840.0
Can you please explain why a system will fail to work when the pressure gauge is faulty? I’ve have to change my gauge twice in 25 years and I can’t figure out why the gauge which isn’t wired to anything can affect the whole system. If the pressure switch is set properly shouldn’t that be sufficient? Thank You
The pressure gauge has nothing to do with the function of the pump. The pressures switch will still turn the pump on at 40 and off at 60 even if there was no gauge. But gauges are like everything else in a pump system which is destroyed from the pump cycling on and off too much.
What about the cycle duty times on these pumps
Designed to be a 1 or 2 min run time.
Asking for trouble having something like this just to not feel a slight pressure drop
Lol! Even 1-2 minutes of run time isn't enough. That is just the minimum. With a CSV the pump will run for as long as you are using water, then 1 more minute to fill the tank. You don't have to worry about "cycle duty" on a pump when it has a Cycle Stop Valve. Although you can use any size pressure tank you want with a CSV, even with the small tank there really is no way, as in no amount of flow for any length of time that will make the pump cycle repeatedly, which is what destroys most pumps. Cycle Stop Valves make pumps last many times longer than normal, not the other way around.
I am going to ask some questions that may also benefit others. If I bulk up the channel too much I think you can delete them.
I have a 35 gal bladder tank that I just recharged. I will check run time occasionally to determine if the bladder is bad. I am thinking that with a CSV the short cycling experienced with a leaky bladder would not be a problem as it would still provide a buffer to allow the pressure switch to activate the pump and eliminate the short cycling. If that's the case tank replacement could be put off until a more convenient time or maybe forever if one were willing to keep check on the air.
Several things. If the system had a CSV to start with, the pump would not have cycled on/off enough to destroy the tank bladder. But yes if you have a water logged tank, the CSV will still keep the pump running while a toilet is filling or a shower is running, compared to clicking on and off rapidly several hundred times as it would without a CSV. Delays the need to replace the tank, but doesn't eliminate it. A good tank is needed, just not a large one. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM above its set point. So, no matter the size tank we try to set the CSV/pressure switch to get a minute of run time. This can be done with as small as a 4.5 gallon size tank that only holds 1 gallon of water. The CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM makes the tank more of a mechanical timer than a water storage vessel. The 1 minute of run time (which with the CSV only happens after you stop using water) is to make sure you are finished using water before the pump shuts off. As long as you are using more than 1 GPM the CSV just keeps the pump running continuously, water goes right past the tank, and the size of the tank is a moot point.
@@cyclestopvalves8380
!.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing?
2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house.
3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries?
@@shofar-man
1.) With a 35 gallon tank how close can I set start and stop pressures to ensure enough run time yet avoid annoying pressure swing?
With a 40/60 switch a 35 gallon tank holds about 8 gallons of water. The CSV fills the tank at 1 GPM. You can get two minutes of run time with a 5 PSI bandwidth, like on at 55 and off at 60. Setting the CSV at 55 will give you two minutes of run time. However, you will also only get 2 gallons out of the tank before the pump starts, which is basically the same as using a 10 gallon size tank with a full 40/60 switch setting. The 55/60 setting would keep the pressure more constant than the 40/60 setting. But it is only for the first 2 gallons used from the tank, as then the pump starts and the CSV gives perfect constant pressure for as long as the faucet/shower is on. The first 2 gallons is used up so quickly you won't notice the quick pressure drop to 40 before the pump starts. So, larger tanks are not necessary. BTW, finding a pressure switch that will do less than 17-20 PSI between on and off isn't easy either.
2.) I have three hydrants before the pressure tank so I assume the CSV would have to be installed at the well head which is about 100 ft from the house.
The CSV would at least need to go before the first hydrant. It can go in the line or the CSV125 is made to be installed in the well, so it is before everything.
3.) I don't know the specs on my submersible pump, is it safe to assume that I can just install the CSV with no worries?
No. Especially with the CSV125 as it can only take a max of 150 PSI back pressure. If you can't find any info on the pump, and amp check will tell you the Horsepower, and a bucket test will tell you the GPM rate and gives a clue to the depth of water. From these things I can back into which pump you have and find a curve. You can also use a pressure gauge before a ball valve and close the ball valve long enough to get a max pressure reading, which is really all we need to know if the CSV will work. Most pump systems are fine with a CSV. However, occasionally we run into a pump someone incorrectly installed that was made for for a 800'-1000' deep well, and the well water level is only 10'. That causes more back pressure than a CSV can handle, and is why you can't just put a CSV on without knowing something about the pump. I can help you with the amp and bucket test if you like? 806-885-4445
restricting flow by applying reverse pressure heats the winding , in turn, may damage their insulation. the pump needs to work at it capacity unless its an inverter.
You could not be more wrong! Restricting the flow decreases amperage and heat in the motor windings, not the other way around. The pump can work almost anywhere on its curve without varying the speed. Fact is the high voltage spikes and rapid rate of switching from an inverter "VFD" cause high temperature in the motor windings and shorten motor life. Cycle Stop Valves make motors run cooler and last longer, which is why VFD or inverter companies feed you so much BS, trying to keep you from trying a CSV, which will make your pump/motor last 30+ years.
Can you install the CVS. Value BEFORE the pressure tank, or with the pressure tank as picture shows???
The CSV must be before the pressure tank/pressure switch. When the pressure tank is screwed directly to the 3/4 port in the CSV1A the tank is on the outlet side of the CSV.
I live in an area with heavy sediment and require a softner and a whole house water filtration system how will the system work?
The CSV1A as comes in the PK1A kit is designed to handle some sand or sediment. Just put all your filters and softeners after the PK1A kit or after the pressure tank.
Large pressure tanks are not good at storing water for power outages. An 80 gallon size pressure tank only holds 20 gallons of water, and that is only when the tank is full to 60 PSI. When/if the pressure is at 41 PSI, just before the pump comes on at 40, there is only 1 gallon of water in the pressure tank. You have no way of making sure the system is at 60 instead of 41 when the power goes off. Murphy's law says it will always be at 41 when the power goes off. If you knew the power was going off, and made the pump come on and fill the tank to 60, you would have 20 gallons stored. But without knowing the power is going off, you also can't make sure there is any water in the pressure tank. I keep a couple of 5 gallon water bottles in the closet to be sure I have some water when the power goes off. And I keep a generator handy for times when the power is off for long periods. A large pressure tank is just a waste of space and money, and makes the pressure in the house be high at 60 or low at 40 for long periods of time. A small tank with a CSV will give you much stronger constant 50 PSI instead of continually going up and down from 40 to 60 as with a big tank.
PS; I hate when people remove questions they ask after I answer them. I will leave this explanation for the next person who thinks big pressure tanks are a good way to store water for times with no power.
Is it safe to use this system if you have no idea what the specs are on your well pump or the well depth? I keep seeing people concerned about the pressure between the pump and the CSV. When I bought my house, it came with no info regarding the well pump or the well depth but I want to try this system.
Usually yes. It is rare for a house pump to be so oversized that it builds more than 200 PSI on the inlet. But it is possible. Knowing the horsepower or amperage drawn and checking to see how many gallons a minute you can catch in a bucket will tell us what size pump you have. Or, you can just put a gauge and a ball valve on the pump and test for pressure.
@@cyclestopvalves8380I see, thanks for the reply.
First off great video, I have a few questions tho...So as the csv reduces the flow as needed, I can see the pressure go up on the pump discharge. How does the pump conserve energy if only the flow rate is reduced? The pumps output should be the same no matter the flow which is why the discharge pressure increases as the flow to the system is reduced correct? I understand the concept, but am wondering what kind of stess a csv would put on the pump and if it would reduce the life of the pump any. Thanks for the video and I look forward to getting my questions answered!
It is just the opposite of what you might think. Counter intuitive is the word. You can see as the pressure goes up on the pump discharge the amperage or power required goes down. The amperage is the "work" that the pump has to do. So when the amperage goes down the work goes down, which is easier on the pump, not harder. Most pump guys don't even know amperage or work goes down as pump discharge pressure increases. If you find a pump man who understands this counter intuitive fact about pumps, you found a good pump man. If a pump man doesn't understand how a pump really works he will try to sell you a VFD. But a VFD is just trying to trick a pump into doing something it already does naturally. Just most people don't know restricting the flow from a pump makes the pump draw lower amperage and last longer than normal.
I have been running cycle stop for about 4 years now it’s still working . We had a deep freeze destroyed the pressure switch when the 1/8 line froze .(my fault I forgot to connect heat lamp).
Thanks for the update. I hope and expect you to still be saying the same thing in another 20 years.
Do pump manufacturers have any issue with installing these? It seems like having something to restrict the flow from the pump might void the warranty.
YES THEY DO! They hate it that the Cycle Stop Valve makes pumps last several times longer than their planned obsolescence date. So they will tell you anything they can to keep you from using a CSV, including saying that it will void the warranty. BUT they will not put that in writing. They know if they put that in writing I would own their pump company. Because not only can they not disallow a warranty for using a CSV, they have never seen a pump damaged in anyway in all these 25 years the CSV has been in existence. Restricting the flow from the pump reduces the amp draw and makes the motor run cooler. Plus restricting the flow is how the CSV keeps the pump from cycling itself to death, which is why pumps using a CSV last many times longer than those without a CSV.
My pump is next to my water storage tank outside my house and the pressure tank is in the basement inside my house. Does the CSV need to be in close proximity to the pressure tank or can it be installed right after the pump? My pump has the pressure gauge and pressure switch right next to it.
Well the pressure switch and pressure tank need to be close together and after the CSV. But the CSV can be at the well or just before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV is usually installed at the well when there are hydrants or tees in the line before it gets to the pressure tank at the house.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 My pressure switch and tank are about 20 feet apart and have been since I've owned the house. But if I'm going to install a CSV, should I move the pressure tank out to where the switch is?
@@geronimomadmartin3499 Yes or move the switch closer to the tank.
How did you make this beautiful interactive animation?
You're right that pumps will use less energy at lower flow. That is one of the ways i diagnose pumps at work. This doesn't make this valve work in pump control applications though. Running the pump at less than 50% of its flow rating will cause cavitation and vibration thus increasing wear on it.
Yep close a valve and if the amps don't drop that is the best way to diagnose a bad thrust bearing in the motor. But you can run these regular centrifugal pumps at much lower flow rate than you would think. Now I am talking about using cool water only, as hot water applications have a much higher minimum flow required. The minimum flow in a Cycle Stop Valve is set to maintain adequate flow to keep the pump from getting hot. The cool water being pumped can never increase in temperature by more than 10F degrees from inlet to outlet. As long as you don't let the fluid get hot, water has excellent cooling and lubricating values. A little re-circulation doesn't hurt anything, and won't cause any cavitation until the water heats, which it is not going to do.
Vibration on a large end suction centrifugal pump can happen if the shaft slenderness ratio is too low. A small diameter shaft cannot hold the weight and force of a large impeller extended on the end of the shaft. But if it is a well built pump to start with, it won't vibrate even at very low flow rates, just like when you are testing at shut off. Multi-stage and submersible pumps, which are most common in these applications, have bearings on both ends of each impeller and are not prone to vibration from shaft flexibility.
Even if there were a little vibration or cavitation, it would be far less harmful for the pump/motor than letting the pump cycle on/off to supply varied demands.
Wouldn't it work the same then if I just eliminate the pressure tank and leave the pump straight to the house on demand with no valves or anything in between?
NO that will not work. You would have really high pressure for an hour or so until the pump melted down.
Interesting. How does the cycle stop valve respond to a low flowing well? I would surmise that it would only be able to maintain a constant pressure if the flow demand is less than the pump/well can deliver. If the flow demand exceeds the well's/pump's capability, will the valve close to the point that it flows only what the well/pump is capable of delivering, or will it start oscillating the pressure and cause short cycles? Also, what about winterizing? Does a bypass need to be installed to drain the house piping, or will water flow backwards through the valve? Lastly, what's required to winterize the cycle stop valve?
The Cycle Stop Valve will let you pump a weak well dry if you open too many faucets. The Cycle Sensor is designed to sense a dry well and shut the pump off. The pump doesn't cycle when it pumps the well dry, but it will burn out if not shut off fairly soon. The Cycle Stop Valve does allow you to use a very small amount of water without cycling the pump. So if your well only makes 4 GPM, and you only open 3 GPM worth of faucets, the CSV will make the pump only supply 3 GPM and you won't pump the well dry.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks! What about winterizing the cycle stop valve? Is a drain valve required on each side of the valve, or can water flow backward through the valve for draining the system?
Just drain the pipe on both sides of the CSV for winterizing.
How would it help with a low yield well? I am thinking of putting in a storage tank connected to existing well pump AND adding a booster pump to the existing 32 gallon pressure tank.
You need the Cycle Sensor to protect your well pump from running dry. The Cycle Stop Valve would go on the booster pump to keep it from cycling to death and to deliver strong constant pressure to the house.
I’m curious what the pressure would be on the line from an average submersible pump to the valve? And why couldn’t you use a larger pressure tank to reduce cycles when you only need say 2-3 gallons?
There is no average pressure from a submersible pump. Every pump is different and the water level in every well is different. It is not common to have more than about 150 PSI, but 90-120 is more common. Give me the size of your pump and the water level in the well and I can tell you exactly how much pressure will be before the CSV. And sure you can use as large a tank as you want with a CSV, if you just like wasting money, space, and waiting on the strong constant pressure to happen. It doesn't hurt if your pump cycles for every 2-3 gallons used, which is doesn't when you see how the CSV works. The CSV takes off so many cycles for the long term uses of water that you can't hurt the pump flushing a toilet even a hundred times per day. Pump companies labeled the CSV as a disruptive product almost 30 years ago as it makes pumps last longer and uses smaller pressure tanks. A product that is disruptive to the pump industry is the best thing you can do for your pump and your pocketbook. If pump companies don't like it, it is the best thing for you.
Thanks for the reply! We have a new 1/2 hp Zoeller pump, the well is 150’ with water level typically at 75’. We actually bought a CSV Kit, just haven’t installed it yet due to worries about the potential pressure on the old plumbing from the well casing to the house.
@@jriley309 What gpm is the pump?
I believe it’s 12 gpm. Thanks again for the response
@@jriley309 A 12 gpm 1/2 hp pump can only make about 80 psi max.
About how many years will this add to the life of the pump? Very curious, thanks
Believe it or not the CSV has been documented to increase the life of pump from 4 to 10 times. Our first test 30 years ago were on systems that cycled the pump to death every 2 years or so. Those systems last over 20 years with a CSV. Other systems where the pump lasted the normal 5-7 years the CSV has made last 30 years so far, and most are still working. You would not believe how long a pump will last when you reduce or eliminate the cycling on and off. That is why pump companies have labeled the CSV a "disruptive" product, as it makes pumps last much longer than the manufacturer wants it to.
Great explanation and thank you for the video. Do you run the risk of cavitating your pump blades by sending variable flows? Most pumps are designed to operate at a pretty strict flow and net head (pressure) range. Is the assumption here that you would need a pump that can effectively process a wide flow range?
The CSV can never close quite enough to cause cavitation. Most centrifugal pumps can handle a much wider range of flow than some people might think. Really as long as there is enough flow to keep the pump cool, cavitation is not an issue. Restricting the inlet line to the pump would cause cavitation, restricting the discharge of a pump only increases the head pressure, reduces the work the motor has to do, and even makes the motor run cooler.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Very interesting. I need to check my pump spec sheet and now might consider using a CSV. Does it operate under a similar principal to pump control Cla-Val or Bermad? I tried researching the innards on how the CSV works and couldn't find much.
@@andrewbenjamin3687 There is plenty on how the CSV works. It is just so simple you didn't realize that was all of it. The CSV works on a pressure reducing principle just like many Cla-Vals, Bermads, etc. The patented difference is that the CSV can never close to less than needed to keep the pump/motor cool. The minimum bypass in the CSV is what keeps the motor/pump cool, determines the rate that fills the pressure tank, and also determines the minimum usage rate at which the pump will not cycle.
Very good explanation.
Thank you! Then you might also like this one as well. ruclips.net/video/4GhE-1Midgc/видео.html
Hi, Ok so I have a question. Most pumps are not "regulated" due to flow demand. So if you have a standard jet pump or deep well pump, that typically provides a specific GPM at specified pressure, I see a problem at "low flow".
Typically, the pressure tank handles the pumps capacity. With a CSV, there is no way for the pump to ADJUST to the low flow. You state that only "1 GPM" is required. How exactly is that possible without stressing the pump?
My jet pump for example. When its on, its on, pumping at it max flow rate into the pressure tank. If I drop flow to 1GPM when that pumps wants to put out say 12 GPM, where is that "EXTRA ENERGY" being dissipated when my pump is trying to pump at 12 GPM? The pump is not a "variable flow" pump. That means that something is stressed somewhere. With low flow, is that impeller now cavitating because the pump is running full throttle and there is no where for the water to go?
If so, that is going to cause PREMATURE failure somewhere in the closed system with pressure increases somewhere in the pump unless the pump has some why to overcome it.
A CSV cannot throttle up or down a "NON VARIABLE SPEED" pump.
How do you explain this?
Thanks,
Lol! You would think so right? But that is not how pumps work. Pumps work on a curve. Your 12 GPM pump will produce 12 GPM at low pressure, or 1 GPM at a higher pressure. Submersibles will pump 12 GPM from a shallow well, but only 1 GPM if the well is deep enough. You don't have to slow a pump down to make it pump less water, just make it think it is in a deeper well by closing a valve to increase the pressure. The amazing and counter intuitive thing about pumps is that the amps or power needed decreases with flow, even though the pressure is increasing. Close a valve down to 1 GPM and the pump is only pumping 1 GPM. There maybe 100 PSI in the pump case, but the impeller is just spinning like a top in the perfect coolant and lubricant, and not drawing any load. Same thing happens when you put your hand over a blow dryer or vacuum cleaner. The amps don't go up, they are reduced when the flow is blocked off. You can hear the motor speed up because it it not blowing air and there is no load. Centrifugal pumps work the same way. The CSV just makes the pump think it is in a deep well when only a little water is needed, and makes the pump think it is in a shallow well when you open up more faucets to use more water. Proven science even though very few people understand how pumps really work. See the video about pump curves. Thanks
Had no idea. Thanks for the awesome explanation.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Is it true only for submersible pumps or also for jet pumps? Thanks
@@lisinsignage the amps don't drop as much with a jet pump, but it will work down to 1 gpm as well with no problem.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks !!
In my basement, I have a 55 gallon pneumatic storage tank (20-40 psi, fed by typical submersible well pump/tank combo 100 ft away) prior to a Simer booster pump that increases pressure about 25-30 psi to around 65-70psi, feeding an 86 gallon bladder tank and house fixtures. The pump has its own (internal) on/off non-adjustable pressure switch. There are check valves and relief valves where needed, and a pressure reducing valve prior to the pump to prevent it from increasing pressure beyond 75 psi max. How might a CSV work in this system?
Wow! Sounds like a mess. A 55 gallon size pressure tank only holds 12 gallons of water. It is just a pressure tank, not a storage tank. You should be able to get all the pressure you need from the well pump, and not need a booster pump and all the other stuff. The 55 gallon pressure tank is much larger than needed with a CSV, but will work fine. Just turn up the pressure switch on the well pump to 60/80, and set a CSV1A for 70 PSI strong constant pressure to the house. Then you will not need the extra boost pump, 86 gallon tank, pressure reducing valve, etc. The CSV system will work much better. last much longer, and deliver stronger pressure to the house.
Thanks for the reply. The well pump and old tank combo serve two homes, with the tank likely not having much capacity after many, many years, and piping so old that to mess with it would likely require a complete re-do. Regularly, the well pump combo delivered no more than a trickle. Meanwhile, in the pneumatic tank (air over water), the capacity is actually closer to 50/50, providing sufficient storage draw for the booster pump, as the well pump, again, has low flow, low pressure. So, getting back to the booster pump and bladder tank, these have totally corrected a decades-long problem of having little to no water after short periods of use. One problem that remains though is correcting pressure ranging (40-70) still present, since booster pump only turns on once pressure sufficiently drops. So, back to original question, would a CSV work between the booster pump and bladder tank to keep pressure more steady, or is it a problem there is no pressure switch downstream of the booster pump?
@@OccamsRazor71 What kind of booster pump do you have?
@@OccamsRazor71 If you are getting more than 25% water from a pressure tank, something is wrong with the tank. Your bandaid booster pump may have helped the pressure, but shouldn't be needed if the well pump is set up correctly. But yes the CSV will solve the cycling problem with the booster pump. But yes the pressure switch has to be after the CSV. Again, what kind of booster pump do you have?
It’s a Simer 407SS.
Does the well pump continue to try and make water at the usual pump flow rate? There does not appear to be any current limits placed on the submersible pump by the CSV that I can see. There is no electrical control going on between the pump and the CSV. Correct me if I'm wrong but,I can understand how when there are several things using water at the same time, the CSV might eliminate a cycle on on and off , however how would this save energy, and save your pump from excessive wear? Putting a restriction on the flow of water leaving the pump seems like a dead heading measure. The pump continues to pump at it's usual force but is held back by the CSV regulator. If there were a lessening of energy sent to the pump , wouldn't that be a method of throttling it vs physically impeding the flow? Please explain and thank you for the video.
Those are very good questions. The CSV can never completely close, so it can never deadhead a pump. There is no electric to the CSV. Pumps just normally reduce in amperage when restricted with a valve of any kind. Here is a video to explain the technical stuff. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Throttling down the flow to 50 GPM is making the pump work harder. Harder = more power to overcome a restriction. I'm sorry but where I come from it takes the life out of the pump and will shortens it life. Not to mention the added energy cost. Am I missing something?
@@dantedenardis1385 Yeah you are missing a lot! Pumps work just the opposite of the way you are thinking. Pumps work easier when the flow rate is reduced, not harder. The energy a pump uses decreases not increases when the flow is restricted, which increases not decreases the life of a pump. Pumps are counter intuitive, which is why you are thinking wrong. See this video for a more technical explanation. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Okay I might have learned just something new in this. Youare right , it is counter intuitive to think that the harder a pump pushes through a reduced orifice the less energy it is going to use. Thanks for giving me something to think about at 3am ....lol
@@dantedenardis1385 I am glad someone besides me is up at 3AM thinking about this stuff. Lol. It is one of the hardest things to explain. I have tried many ways in almost 30 years and still get the same question everyday. It is the centrifugal impeller that is the magical thing here. It only draws a load depending on how much weight it is lifting. The actual definition of horsepower is the ability to lift 33,000# of weight one foot in one minute. One gallon of water weighs 8.33 pounds. It takes a lot more HP to lift 50 gallons a minute than is does to lift 1 gallon a minute. Restricting the pump to make this happen causes the impeller(s) to just spin in nice cool lubricant and not draw any load, as they don't actually touch anything.
our water system goes out intermittently. we want to install a 5000L holding tank . the water fills the tank fron the main water source. i dont want the pump to run 24hrs per day. the pump is installed after the tank..will the Cycle stop valve also go after the pump ob this type of application?
The pump should be installed after the holding tank, but prior to a pressure tank. The CSV would go after the pump and before the pressure tank/pressure switch. The CSV only causes the pump to run when you are using water. But if you use water 24 hours a day, the CSV will make the pump run 24 hours a day, which is a good thing. Without the CSV the pump would cycle on/off to death when using water for long periods of time.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 and how do i order this for delivery to Canada ?
@@thisisme7984 We have shipping to Canada on our site or you can all us. 806 885 4445
Cool video! This valve may help me out a lot, but I am curious how this will work while making RO water. I have 400 GPD unit and I'm not exactly sure how many Gpm it uses while I'm making water, but my RO usually runs all of 10-15 hours every few days. The pump runs every 30-40 minutes while i am making water, and is on for about 15-20 minutes before it kicks back off. Will the csv keep the pump on for the entire time the RO unit is running?
My math shows 400 gallons in 10 hours is 0.6 of a GPM. A jet pump with a CSV1A will stay running with flows down to about 0.5 GPM, and a submersible will stay running with as little as 1.0 GPM. So, if you have a submersible just use a little larger tank than normal with the CSV. Although it will still cycle, it will be a very slow cycle. With a 40 gallon size tank that holds 10 gallons of water, you supply pump will be still have to come on every 30-40 minutes.
great video, and your assertion that even most plumbers don't understand the amp relationship to pressure. I'm on a well established well with `75' calculated head. even though the well is established, every now and again - usually after 4 days straight of rain, the water can be a bit more cloudy than normal. I have a question about order of devices. Would it be OK if the first device once the water line comes into the house is a sediment filter? It's a "high flow" water filter - translated means it basically only catches the bigger sediment. Would I be impacting the life/value/performance of the CSV?
The CSV125 valves do not like sand, but the CSV1A can handle quite a bit of sediment. However, it is always best to keep sand and sediment out of the CSV when possible. And as long as the filter is rated for the max pressure the pump can build, the filter can go before the CSV. Give me a pump model number and the depth to water in the well and I can tell you how much pressure will be on the filter before the CSV.
the well pump is 2ST52-12PLUS-P4-2
50' calculated head
200' distance to well with rise of 20'
I was hoping to set csv to maintain 55. do think that would be possible?
That pump can only make 103 PSI max. If your water level is 75', that pump can only deliver 70 PSI to the surface. So yes you can run the CSV at 55 PSI with a 40/60 pressure switch. However, at 75' lift plus 55 PSI that pump can only produce 7 GPM. If you use more than 7 GPM the pressure will be lower than 55 PSI. As long as the filter is rated for 100 PSI or better it will be fine installed prior to the CSV.
I have city water, but live up a hill and about 2000 feet from the water meter. I have a basic pump in a pump house about 1000 feet from the water meter that pushes the water up the hill, and then a water pressure booster under the house in the crawlspace (DruaMac brand). I am noticing that when I flush the toilet too many times in a row, too rapidly, the water turns off and I have to cycle the GFCI connected to the water pressure booster and then it turns back on. Similar behavior when I run a load of laundry with a front load washer (the valves opening and closing for the washing machine seem to trip up the water pump and the pump turns off, and then I have to again reset the GFCI it's connected to).
I think I have a CSV installed in my system because when I turn on the kitchen sink, or the shower, the pressure starts low, then builds to the highest pressure and stays there the entire time it is in use. Recently though, I have noticed (and I am not sure if it is because of a heat wave we are experiencing) but I will be using just the kitchen sink and the water will die. GFCI switch isn't popped or anything, but I will reset it to cycle the power on the water pressure booster, and the water turns back on. Any ideas what is happening here? Thanks!
Don't think you have a CSV. The type pump you have uses a flow switch type control and electronic sensors. Probably doesn't even have a pressure tank, and wouldn't help much anyway. There needs to be flow through the pump or the pressure needs to drop pretty low before the electronics trigger the pump to start. Usually by the time the pressure gets low enough to trigger the pump there is no flow to help either. However, you shouldn't need more than one pump anyway. Just up the pressure on the first booster until you no longer need the second booster. A small pressure tank and a CSV on the first booster would let you set it to any pressure you want. Then you would have strong constant pressure all the time.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 thanks the reply. So the booster does have a little tank attached (size I am not sure of but it is fairly small bc it is sitting on top of the pump itself). I think I have to have both pumps due to the distance and hill and I doubt I could get any decent pressure from just the one pump that is about 800 feet from the house and at the bottom of the hill. I just can't seem to figure out what is causing the water pressure pump under the house to keep turning off during random use scenarios... it has also been hot lately here and just using the kitchen sink or the garden hose will cause the water pressure pump to essentially die (throw a fault or something) and require me to power cycle it.
@@TheDreadnought Still think one booster is all you need. Do this all the time. But if you want either or both booster pumps to work and not give problems, using a Cycle Stop Valve and a small pressure tank with a pressure switch is the most reliable method.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I'd love to just have the one pump. I think it would simplify things a lot. I'd probably have to have a pretty powerful pump to get it up the hill and across the estimated distance and still be usable in the house. Right now the pump in the pump house is an F&W booster pump and is 1hp. What brand/model do you recommend for something like what I need? TY
@@TheDreadnought It can nearly always be done with only one pump. I have systems that are set for 400 PSI, to deliver 50 PSI to a community that is on top of a 800' tall mountain. However, I also have systems that pump for 20 miles, then is picked up by another pump system that pumps another 20 miles, and so on for over 200 miles. Just need to figure the exact lift or height in distance and the friction loss to know what size pump is needed and what pressure to set the CSV to deliver. Just need to know the height of the mountain. Lol! Just call us and we will help you figure it out.
As I figured the 40-60 psi difference compresses the air in the tank to about a third of its volume. So for a 60 litre tank you get about 20 liters of extra water in there that you can use before the pressure drops to 40psi and the pump kicks in. So running a 300l bath will cycle the pump on and off 15 times.
NO! With a CSV the pump will not shut off until the bathtub is full.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I know I was counting without the CSV. It's just that the hard part to figure out is how much volume of water really leaves the pressure tank between 40 and 60 PSI of the air. According to my rough math it would be about 20 litres for a 60l tank but correct me if I'm wrong please.
@@steamsteam6607 It depends on the differential pressure. At 40/60 draw down is about 25% of total tank volume.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you I got it at 1/3d but there is the mechanical aspect of the barrier as well.
I have a multiple wells setup feeding a network. Im wondering how could I use CSV/pressure switch/tank setup so that each wells start when needed and shuts off when the demand decreases.
Sure we do that all the time. You just stagger the pressure switch and CSV settings so the highest pressure pumps come on first and the lowest pressure ones last. I have one system with eleven well pumps scattered across a sub-division. We give each pump 3 PSI difference from the last, like 60/80, 57/77, 54/74, and so on. Here is a link to an animation with two pumps you can play with.
cyclestopvalves.com/pages/home-two-well-system
I’m using. Red jacket jet pump with the pressure control valve attached to the pump and the pressure line going to the prop housing housing, would i have to change this to make the csv work. Move after the CSV valve.
For deep well jet pumps with the pressure control valve, you just put the CSV after the pressure control valve.
My well water goes to a filtering and water softening and then reverse osmosis, to sit in a big tank, which then has it's own pump aside from the well water pump. How would this work with or even be needed?
You would need the CSV on the booster pumping out of the storage tank. You could also use a CSV on the well pump and have it set up to pump directly from the well in the case your booster at the storage tank quits on New Years day.
I'm not so sure I agree with your theory many companies have tried "so called tankless gadgets" My Grundfos SQE and CU301 controller is a true variable speed well pump. It seems like the CSV is the "Gadget" to harness the old traditional well pump and pressure tank system.
The truth is, I use the Grundfos and Goulds Aquavar ABII because of the true variable and the soft start ability. My solar inverters don't like the initial 60 amp surge at startup of a standard well pump.
Your example of how a typical well pressure system works is excellent. My system is a little bit rare and your CSV is a much more economical way of doing almost the same thing.
It is the other way around. The SQE was introduced in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure of the Cycle Stop Valve that was introduced in 1993. They wanted something to produce constant pressure that would not make pumps last forever like a CSV. The CSV and variable speed pump both vary the flow and deliver constant pressure. The PWM or pulse width modulator, which is a VFD, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption compared to the simple Cycle Stop Valve. The mechanical CSV does in one simple step what a VFD takes thousands of bits and bytes and components to computerize and line up correctly to accomplish the same task.
I agree you need a soft start if you are forced to live on solar. But you don't need variable speed to get soft start. The SQE pump is just a full speed SQ pump when a simple pressure switch is used instead of the CU301 controller. But it still has the 5 second soft start built into the motor. The SQ pump has become fairly reliable even though it spins 3 times as fast as a normal pump. It is the CU301 most people have problems with and have to expensively replace on a regular basis.
That is when most people find us as they are looking for an alternative to the CU301. Amazingly, the SQ pump has almost as good of a drop in amps when restricted with a CSV as when slowed with the CU301 (VFD). Replacing the CU301 with a Cycle Stop Valve and normal pressure switch makes the SQ pump many times more reliable and long lasting. As neither the SQE or Aquavar are "tankless" like the ones you quoted me discussing, the existing little tank will also be fine with the CSV.
I like "rare" systems. I have never seen one where the CSV couldn't do as good or better than a VFD. Yes, the CSV is more economical, but it is also simpler and makes pumps last longer than a VFD. You also won't loose the soft start feature when replacing the CU301 with a CSV. And although soft start is helpful with inverters or generators, varying the speed with a VFD causes the pump to use more Kw per gallons produced. You get more gallons per Kw from your solar or batteries if you use a full speed pump to fill a pressure tank as quickly as possible and let the pump shut off. A VFD is just a Rube Goldberg gimmic when it comes to pumping water. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/vfd-repair-kit
Hi,
I really appreciate you do this kind of video. I have a problem with my well pump system. I just got a new well borehole drill and a new Pressure tank with pressure switch, Cycle Stop Valve installed. The water pressure build up to 60psi and cut off fine, but when a valve is open the pressure drains quickly down to zero and shut off the pump. I tried everything to no avail. Is there anything wrong with my system? Unfortunately, it is out of the country and no one has any idea of how it works. Would you happen to know what could be causing the pump to shutdown when a valve is opened?
Your kindly response will be very much appreciated.
With a 40/60 pressure switch, the pump should come back on as soon as the pressure drops to 40. The CSV really has nothing to do with that. Either the pressure switch is not turning the pump back on for some reason, or the overload in the pump is tripping on startup. You might also have a low pressure cut off lever on the side of your pressure switch that you must hold to get the pump started. If that is the case, you could have too much air charge in the tank, causing the pressure to bottom out before the pump starts. 40/60 switch , needs 35 PSI air in the tank when empty of water.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank so much for your quick response and the insight. I have two pressure switches, one with the cut off lever on the side and the other without it. Both have the same issue. At first, I thought it was a low water level in the well, so it was replaced the with regular one without the cut off lever but still does the same. I think the air pressure in the tank may be the issue as you mentioned. I will have them check that. I really appreciate your input.
thank you.
@@egyahechie3171 Using a regular pressure switch without the lever on the side, the pump should start when the pressure drops to 40 no matter what. I am guessing you have a bad start capacitor and the overload in the motor is tripping on start up. What do you have to do to get the pump started again?
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you so much for your input. After troubleshooting, we found out that a stone was blocking the check valve causing water to gush back to the well and turning the pump off. After removing the stone the cut-in and cut-off works fine @ 40/60 psi.
thank you so much and I appreciate your quick response.
My local plumber have now replaced my Grundfos VFD pump for the third time in 5 years (warranty). Wish i had a standard pump with CSV instead😃🇧🇻
The SQ pump works very well with a CSV. You just don't need the CU301 box. Get a PK1A kit and remove the CU301 and it will give years of trouble free service.
I have been in our new ( to us) home and this is my first well. The pressure seems to take a very long time to recover,the pump is very new ( jet pump) and the pressure tank is fairly new also. One question is location of the pressure tank, mine has been placed in the well with the jet pump on a shelf. My well is about 4’ in diameter and 17’ deep approximately. The house is probably 150-200’ from the well with a small incline to the house. I was going to swap the pump for a submersible and then move the tank to under the house but wonder if adding this valve will take care of my issue?
Thanks for your time,enjoyed the video!
I don't understand the tank in the well with a jet pump? But the CSv will give you strong constant pressure and work with a much smaller pressure tank.
Cycle Stop Valves what do you mean you don’t understand the pump and tank in the well?
@@1966cambo The pressure tank has to be after the pump. A jet pump is above ground, so the tank cannot be in the well?
Cycle Stop Valves gotcha, it is physically located in the well just not in the water lol, i did say it is on a shelf in the well. The tank is after the pump. I just thought the pressure tank was supposed to be at the house, not that far away?
Does it make any sense to use a CSV when using a Simple Pump designed to hand pump water to a pressure tank in a power outage? In that case it would seem you would want the largest pressure tank possible without a CSV.
I don't think you want to hook the Simple pump up to the pressure tank. Pumping against the 40 PSI would be like lifting water an additional 92', which will make it much harder to pump. The only hand pumps I have seen pump zero pressure into a bucket when the power is out.
Great animation. I am on a shared mutual well with about 70 homes. The pressure is ok, around 40. The house came with an old irrigation pump and two large tanks to accelerate water to farm and home. I replaced this with a Goulds constant flow variable pressure pump running 60/40 with a tiny ten gallon tank. The set up works great but i have a thump thump that occurs randomly throughout the day even though the breaker to the pump is off and I had a new brass ball check valve installed between pump and main line (to the shared well). When I bypass the pump entirely i have no check valve and can hear and feel vibration throughout the house as neighbors water their homes, yards, etc. The thumping only occurs when the pump is in line on or off electrically. My guess is the tank is making the noises. But why? What is making my tiny tank thump in the middle of the night when no water is being used, the pump is powered off by breaker and there is a new check valve?
Bladder tanks will thump when the pressure decrease below the air charge in the bladder. With 38 PSI air charge, the bladder hits the bottom of the tank anytime pressure falls below 38 PSI. Reducing the air charge in the tank will probably stop the the water hammer thump. Then all you need to do is get rid of that Tar Baby of a variable speed pump, install a regular jet pump with a Cycle Stop Valve, and you will have a pump system that will last 30 years in stead of maybe 3 years.
Also, we make larger CSV's for larger pumps. The shared well for 70 homes could use a CSV even more than a small pump. The CSV would deliver better pressure to the 70 house, make the pump system last much longer, cut expenses greatly for pump control equipment, reducing cost to all concerned. We would only need an 80 gallon size pressure tank to do 70 homes with a CSV.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thanks for your response. As a member of the mutual well water company I have no real say in how the water is delivered to the home. I bought the home with a meter at the street, 165 feet from my home. The company has a 60,000 gallon tank several hundreds or a thousand feet up on a hill that basically gravity feeds water to the 70 or so members down the line. When I bought the house it had a very loud electric pump and two 200 gallon bladder tanks. The property is one acre. Goats, chickens, vineyard and fruit trees on irrigation. The house is 3.5 bath with fire sprinkler system, California. I switched to the tar baby Goulds pump because it is whisper quiet and much more powerful than the old pump which was very noisy. Unfortunately the pump and piping was set up adjacent to the house, rather than farther away so every time the old pump came on you could hear it in the bedrooms above it. I will adjust the bladder pressure and see if i cant get rid of that hammering. Thanks for your help.
@@diegoroswell302 A fire system usually requires you to have a storage tank of your own? A submersible pump in the storage tank would supply more water and better pressure than a jet or centrifugal pump, and would be not just whisper quiet, but completely silent. You will need to make some changes soon as those Aqua-boost type pumps are not known to last very long. I just hope it doesn't quit you when you have a fire and really need it. :(
I bought a new pressure tank but the only one they had was a 30-50 so that’s the pressure switch I bought, my old system was 40-60, I haven’t hooked it up yet, will I have noticeably less water pressure at my shower? Thanks
Yes you would notice the lower pressure. All pressure switches are the same. Just tighten the large adjustment screw three times to the right and you will have a 40/60 switch.
Cycle Stop Valves thanks sir. So I make three complete rotations of the nut, do I need to put more air pressure in the tank then?
@@shanek6582 You always need 2-5 PSI less air pressure in the tank than the pump start pressure, where ever that ends up happening. May need a little trial and error as three turns may not be exact. Just don't mess with the little adjustment screw.
Cycle Stop Valves thanks man
Is there wear of the pump from having the power supply being constantly varied according the the need of the household?
No. The power only goes down, not up. The CSV decreases the power needed and makes the motor run cooler. Varying the power is a good thing as long as it goes down.
What will keep this type of unit from burning out the pump motor if the well only produced 7GPM. and the out door hose puts out 23 GPM? How long will it take to run the well dry?
The CSV would have nothing to do with that problem. If your well only makes 7 GPM and you are letting out 23 GPM, the well will be pumped dry as soon as the extra water stored in the wells static level is depleted. Can probably only run 23 GPM for 10 minutes or so before you pump a 7 GPM well dry.
Now if you have a 23 GPM pump and the well only makes 7 GPM, then if you only open up 7 GPM or less, the CSV will make the 23 GPM pump only put out 7 GPM or the exact amount you are using, so in this way the CSV can help keep from pumping the well dry.
In low yield wells the Cycle Sensor will protect the pump if the well runs dry. Using the Cycle Sensor for protection and in combination with a Cycle Stop Valve will let you get the most out of any low producing well.
I agree a weak producing wells need a large tank, but that would be a storage tank, not a pressure tank. A large pressure tank is just seen as an extra demand, and actually makes the problem worse. All the water from a pressure tank is used up as the pressure drops from 60 to 40 PSI, before the pump is even started. Then when the pump is started, the pressure tank is completely empty, and the pump/well is having to supply the water you are using while at the same time try to refill the pressure tank. Most of the time the pressure just stays low and the tank is not refilling while you are using water. Then when you stop using water, the tank has to be refilled from 40 to 60 PSI, requiring the well to produce another 10-20 gallons or so, after you have already depleted the well while taking a shower. So the well didn't get pumped dry while you were in the shower, now it will pump dry while trying to refill the pressure tank. If your well only makes 1-3-5 GPM, that is all you will be able to use unless you store some water, which requires a storage tank and booster pump, not a large pressure tank. There are 1440 minutes in a day. If yours well only makes 1 GPM, that is still 1440 gallons per day, which is enough to supply 5-7 houses all the water they want, IF YOU CAN STORE 1440 GALLONS. Here is a link to a drawing of a storage tank/booster pump system. The booster pump system using the CSV can supply multiple houses as well while using a very small pressure tank. It just needs some water to work with, which is where the storage tank comes in.
forum.cyclestopvalves.com/index.php?topic=1840.0
Sounds like you need both a large storage tank to provide a reservoir AND a smaller pressure tank to provide for good delivery volume when required.
I have chicken houses. So at times I have water running all day for cool cell pads. Is it better to let the pump cycle (without CSV)
giving it a chance to rest or (with the CSV) would the pump be OK running all day?
Pumps do not need to rest. Pumps are made for "continuous duty". They will last longer running 24/7 than if it cycles on and off even a few times per day. I have a pump feeding a stock tank that hasn't shut off in 15 years. Just like a diesel engine in a truck, they are made to run 24/7. Start and stop them 50-100 times a day and you will need a new one shortly.
It seems that the pump runs all the time, even to maintain pressure but at different RPMs. Can you please clarify.
The CSV is just a simple valve. It cannot and doesn't need to control motor speed, just water flow. The pump only runs continuously when you use water, as compared to cycling on and off while you use water, which is bad for pumps.
Barely installed it but noww....
My problem is the left side of my home shower gets more pressure than the right side of home shower,but my well is closer to the left side shower tho...how can I raise pressure or watever to reach other end of home?🤦🏻♂️.....
The CSV will raise pressure to both lines. You must have a blockage or something to have different pressures on the same system.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 So the 50 psi the csv pushes should be enough correct....
Guess I'll have to check for blockage🤦🏻♂️
@@CountrySideLoony Yeah you should have 50 PSI everywhere, except after a blockage.
Can I use this valve with my regular pressure tank as well? Well is new so would rather just add this valve.
The CSV will work with any pressure tank. However, a bladder or diaphragm type tank is best. Then yes all you need is to add the CSV before your tank and before any water lines or hydrants tee off. If it is not a bladder/diaphragm style tank it takes a little more consideration to work with an air maker system, but it will still work.
What if the pumps max pressure rating is 5 bar @ 75 Gpm & if I required 6 bar outlet pressure at same flow rate can I get the same if there is pressure vessel
The only way you can get 6 bar pressure from a pump that can only do 5 bar max is to have at least 1 bar inlet pressure to the pump. A pressure vessel can only store the pressure it is given, it cannot increase the pressure.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Your example shows a 25gpm pump @ 50psi, how then can the pressure switch turn off at 60 psi? Turns on at 40psi yes but from what you just said the pump can only push 50psi out to the tank and the tank can only store the pressure it is given. How then can the tank reach a pressure of 60psi to turn the pump off?
@@waltermelyon4300 Because the CSV is set at 50 PSI and will maintain 50 PSI when using more than 1 GPM. But the CSV cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So when no water is being used the 1 GPM "leaking" through the CSV has no place left to go except the tank. The tank is filled at 1 GPM until it is full to 60 PSI and the pressure switch shuts off the pump.
Question... My water pressure from the pump alone is not so great. With this system I can't increase the water pressure and am at the mercy of my pump, correct?
Maybe not. If your pump is cycling on and off while using water and experiencing low pressure, you maybe able to turn up the pressure and even use a Cycle Stop Valve to get much stronger constant pressure. What model pump do you have, and does it cycle on and off while using water at low pressure?
I see the advantage of a CSV when you are plumbed directly to the well. Any advantage if you are gravity fed from storage tanks to the pressure pump? For example 2.5 GPM well > 6000Gal tank > pressure pump > 40gal pressure tank > filters > house
It doesn't matter if it is gravity fed to the pump, drawing from a storage tank, or a well, anytime you have a system that requires water to automatically come on when you open a faucet or turn on the irrigation you need a Cycle Stop Valve. CSV's work great on booster pumps as well as submersible pumps. It doesn't matter if you are boosting city water pressure, well, or tank water.
Wow, how do i purchase this device? Im from the philippines. Thus will solve my problem. Great product
There are several cities in the Philippines that use the large Cycle Stop Valves instead of a water tower. We ship to the Philippines quite often, one just last week. Call us or email and we can get one headed your way.
Cycle Stop Valves just wondering if you have like a package? With the pressure tank, csv etc....?
Yes that would be our PK1A kit, which you can see on the "Eliminate Big Pressure Tank" video on this channel.
This device would not be recommended for a low-yield well because it's cutting out the pressure tank buffer right?
A CSV with a small pressure tank actually works better with low producing wells than a system with a large pressure tank. A large pressure tank is just an additional demand for a weak producing well to supply. If the well is really weak, a cistern storage tank with a booster pump and a CSV is best.
right
Do you have a diagram on setup this system .
my house has kitchen sink-dishwasher -lavatory sink-
bathtub -toilet and how much is the [Cycle stop Values]
and do I get it from you are hardware store
let me know A.S.A.P
The CSV1A by itself is $179 including freight. The PK1A kit is $395 and has a new pressure tank, switch, gauge, relief valve, and everything you need to replace the pressure tank. You can get a diagram and order it here. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick
can you take a picture of the items that will get .I like to see what I get
can I change 50psi to 70psi
@@alanmcdowell977 You can see a picture at the link I posted. 50/70 is not a problem, you can order the PK1A set up that way. I would switch from the 4.5 gallon tank to the 10 gallon tank when going higher pressure as at higher pressure tanks hold less water.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 Preset scv are $69.00
I don't get why my faucet doesn't do the same thing. I have read all of the explanations and looked at the videos and I still don't get how it works. Unless it is some combination of the faucet running, the tank filling, the spring moving and the cut off switch set between 40 and 60 psi. It took me a while to understand a ground fault interrupter too. I guess I will just have to get one and hope it works.
A faucet is after the pressure tank/CSV and only controls how much water you are using. The CSV is before the pressure tank/pressure switch and controls how much water your pump is producing. The CSV knows how many faucets you have open, and makes the pump produce exactly the same amount. Without a CSV the pump is always producing more than the faucet is letting out, which causes the tank to fill and the pump to cycle on and off. The CSV just matches how much the faucets are putting out so there is no extra water to fill the tank. You could do the same thing as a CSV with a ball valve before the pressure tank if you stood there and manually controlled it. With a 40/60 pressure switch the CSV would be set to 50 PSI. So if you saw the pressure drop below 50 you could open the ball valve a little and if you saw the pressure increase above 50 you could close the ball valve a little. The CSV will automatically keep the system at 50 PSI no matter how much or how little water you are using. You can't do that with a faucet.
How would this impact my on-demand HWH? I believe a specific flow rate is what causes it to turn on.
We sell a lot of CSV specifically to make on demand heaters work properly. Usually the 40 to 60 swing in pressure using the old pressure switch method will vary the flow in the shower head. At 40 the shower flow is low and the instant heater goes off. At 60 the shower flow is high and the instant heater comes on again. Some people call this a cold water sandwich. With a CSV holding a constant 50 PSI as long as you are in the shower an instant heater will stay on as it should and give you all the hot water you want.
I don't have the cold water sandwich situation although I'm familiar with it from when I had such in the late 80's... I had the on-demand installed 2 years ago and it has worked fine except for a drop in pressure for approx 15 seconds during a long shower before it comes back strong (and still hot). This only started in early December (4 months ago). A well service is coming out this afternoon. I'll see what he says and if he has ever heard of a cycle stop valve. I live in the boondocks and a lot of the service folks up here don't know about new developments in their trades because they simply haven't encountered anything since they first learned.
I have a jet pump and 6 gal pressure tank at the cottage. If I were to install this valve does it get installed between the pump and the pressure tank?
Yes. And you need to move the sensing line for the pressure switch to one of the extra ports on the CSV1A or to the line close to the pressure tank. You can also just add a new pressure switch and wire around the switch on the side of the motor as shown in our wiring instructions for "jet pumps". Thanks
@@cyclestopvalves8380 yes I understand about the sensing line moving to the valve. In this case how will the pump sense 60PSI to turn off. I was thinking to purchase the CSV125. Does it have a sensing port
@@truenorthmuskoka9077 The CSV125-3 will work with a jet pump, But there are no extra ports on the CSV125 like there are on the CSV1A. You would need a tee close to the tank to have a place to connect the pressure switch.
@@cyclestopvalves8380 I already have a pressure switch at the pump. Why do I need another one near the pressure tank. My pump and tank are within 1 foot of each other.
@@truenorthmuskoka9077 You can still use that pressure switch if you want. The sensing line just needs to be extended to a tee at the pressure tank, which both the tank and switch need to be after the CSV125. Pump-CSV-pressure tank/pressure switch.
can u use a csv with rainwater harvesting with a 3.5 gpm pump to run water to a cabin
Sure as long is it is a regular centrifugal or jet pump. The CSV won't work with positive displacement pumps like those 12 volt RV type pumps.
I own a trailer court and I have 3 trailers that is occupied. Can I use one of this to maintain better pressure when 1 or more is using water?
Yes you can. The CSV makes a big pump act like a small one when needed. So you can have a pump or pumps large enough to supply a huge city, and the CSV will make it act like a really small pump when only one shower in one house is being used at the time.
Is the back pressure bad on my submersible pump?
Absolutely not! Back pressure makes pumps last longer for several reasons. I am sorry you have not got this from the many videos on my channel showing how it works. So I will just say it plainly. Back pressure reduces the amps and makes the pump/motor run cooler. Back pressure can also reduce the amount the pump is putting out. This is how a CSV makes the pump stop cycling, as cycling is the worst thing you can do to a pump.
Nice learning video. We install 1 hp 18-25 gpm submersible pump and a 75 psi over pressure relief valve in systems with pump start only or without overpressure relief valve using a PSI tank. Using a 25 gpm pump, pump start and over pressure relief valve with a small irrigation zone or someone using a water hose at 8-12 gpm with a csv limiting the output psi to 50 psi, the water not used creates back pressure before the csv. The back pressure increases as less system water is being used, up to whatever the pump can generate in a closed system? Which is better for the pump 1) to design the zone to run at 50 psi. 2) Use a CSV and let the pump run with whatever back pressure it can achieve up to the over pressure relief valve while small amounts of water are being used (garden hose) 3) Design zones to match say 75% of the pumps rated output and let the csv do its job, noting a back pressure 25% water output isn't enough to shorten the life of the pump?
Well first let me say that even a back pressure of 99% is not going to hurt the pump. As long as you are flowing at least 1 GPM, the pump/motor will be fine. It is actually easier on the pump/motor (draws lower amps, runs cooler) when restricted to 1 GPM, than when running at maximum flow. We always recommend a pressure relief valve, even with a pressure tank/pressure switch. However, the relief valve needs to go after the CSV, not before. With a CSV setting of 50 PSI using a pump start relay, set the pressure relief to 60 PSI. In this way when the gophers eat the wires going to the sprinklers and the pump start relay starts the pump anyway, at 60 PSI the pressure relief will pop off the 1 GPM coming through the 50 PSI CSV to keep the motor cool. Same thing with a 40/60 pressure switch, except set the pressure relief valve for 70 PSI. This way the pop off valve will still dump 1 GPM, keeping everything cool, if the pressure switch fails to shut the pump off at 60 PSI.
As for which is better for the pump, a 50 PSI CSV using a small tank and a 40/60 switch is best. In this way the pump starts with pressure against it, which is much easier on a pump than when starting with no pressure from a pump start relay, which causes upthrust. Again back pressure (when starting or running the pump) is much easier on a pump/motor than when starting or running at full pump capacity (no back pressure).
Now matching every zone to exactly to the pumps output is more efficient. But it is usually almost impossible to make every zone exactly 18 or 25 GPM. There are always a few zones that need to be smaller to fit the size of the yard. The closer you can get the zone size to the output of the pump the more efficient, but it isn't going to cost much extra to have some small zones as well. When restricting the pump with a CSV, the amps or energy consumption will also drop, so it is not much less efficient and much easier to design when simply matching the zones to the size of the yard, and letting the CSV adjust the pumps flow accordingly.
Cycle Stop Valves Understand all except the pump regulating its amperage based on water demand. Haven't read where an electric motor regulates its amperage base on a water restriction. I figured the pump amperage was the same regardless therefore the psi before the csv was higher. Thank you for your time.
I know right! It is just the opposite of what you think. But it is written as plain as the nose on your face in every pump curve. Larger pumps usually have a separate curve just for horsepower. And smaller pumps are no different, they just usually don't show the horsepower. Some like Grundfos curves show HP on small pumps as though. Here is a link to a video I made about the amp drop as flow is restricted. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
Bob-the-Pilot, try to visualize the pump as a weight lifter. The weight lifter can dead lift 300 pounds over his head - but, it takes all of his strength to do it, right? And, if he dead lifts 50 pounds over his head, it's a lot easier, isn't it? The pump is the same. It can deliver 25 gallons per minute, but it takes all of its strength to do that. But, delivering 1 gallon per minute is easy, isn't it? The harder the pump has to work, the more current it is going to use.
Great way to explain it! Much easier for a pump to lift 1 GPM than 25 GPM.
thank you, great job
Interesting - What's the Principle of the CSV (How does it work)
Is it varying the Motor speed ?
It is just a valve. It controls the flow. You don't need anything to vary the pump speed, pumps naturally drop amps when the flow is restricted. See this. ruclips.net/video/3GABhLLtjas/видео.html
what about the head pressure on the pump? 150 ft well plus two story house?
"Head pressure" is what a pump does. Even though your well is 150' deep and the pump maybe set at 145', it is still only lifting from the actual water level. So lets say the water level in the well is 100' at the lowest. Then you need a pump that can produce a head pressure or lift from 100', plus deliver the pressure needed in the house. With a single story house I would only use a 40/60 pressure switch. But with 2 stories I prefer a 50/70 pressure switch setting, which with a CSV will give you 60 PSI constant while the water is being used. This 60 PSI needed can be converted to head in feet by multiplying 60 X 2.31 for an additional 138' of head. The 50/70 setting is already making up the extra needed for the 20' elevation of the 2 story house. So adding the 100' of actual lift in the well to the 138' of head needed to make the 60 PSI for the house, gives a total head needed of 238' the pump must deliver. Now picking a pump that will do maybe 10 GPM at 238' means you need a 10 GPM, 3/4 HP pump.
When using a CSV the head pressure on the pump will increase when you are using less than 10 GPM. When the CSV makes the pump produce only 1 GPM, because you are only using 1 GPM at the time, the pump will be seeing a head pressure of 310', which is the same as 134 PSI. So when using 10 GPM the CSV lets the pump draw from 100' and produce the 60 PSI needed in the house. But when only using 1 GPM, the CSV makes the pump think the water is 310' deep, which is how the CSV make the 10 GPM pump produce only 1 GPM when needed.
I'm not an expert on motors and controls but with the little I know: I totally agree on the constant pressure and the cycling of the pump but the amperage load is what I don't agree. If you choke that line I would think the motor would feel the increase load meaning more amps, more electricity, more heat, and yes less life. I'm sure others think this way. If its a simple mechanical valve that opens and closes I can test this. So basically check amps on pump at regular operation and then start to choke it down with regular valve to see the amperage reading, my guess amps go UP. If they go down, I will buy three of these valves that same day (have three wells).
Yep the whole thing is counter intuitive. Everybody thinks restricting the output of a pump will make it work harder, when just the opposite is true. If the amps go up when the pump is restricted the thrust bearing in the motor is bad, which is how motor thrust bearings are checked. If the amps don't go down at all, you just have a bad designed pump, which there are a few of those like a 10 GPM Pentair pump. But the amps will reduce by 20-30% in most pumps, and the really good ones like a Grundfos the amps will drop by 50-60 %. Watch the video titled Pump Curves Technical Video if you want to see how the power drops off as the pump is restricted. Even though it is a normal characteristic of pumps, most people, even some pump engineers don't understand it.
Thanks for the response back. I really don't know what pumps are these brand/style wise, they were installed prior purchase of property. All I know is that they are submersible pumps in wells. It used to be a plant nursery (reason for the high water demand with three deep wells) so I assumed they used good stuff. I only use one well for irrigation (big well) and it does cycle when is running so I do want to extend the life. I've researched the prices on those pumps plus labor and is not cheap so a $400 investment makes all kinds of sense if it works. Thanks again.
Wouldn't still be here selling Cycle Stop Valves after 25 years if they didn't work. But I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard that statement. Nearly all pumps will have reduced amps when the flow is reduced. And there are NO pumps that will have an increase in amps when the flow is restricted. May not even be $400. If you already have a pressure tank and pressure switch, adding a CSV could be $63 or $174. But we match the CSV to the size of the pump, so will need a little info on the pump. If you do not have the pump model number, we can back into what we need with horsepower and GPM, even if you have to do a bucket test to figure that out. I am an old driller and pump installer, so I can help figure the size of pump if needed.
According to the previous owner, the big well that I use for irrigation is 300 ft deep and produces 60GPM thats all he knows. That is why im thinking the CSV2W will be a better fit. It irrigates in sections but at any given time up to 8 sprinkler heads could be running. Anyway I may try the smaller units (CSV125) on one of the small wells just to test it and then get the irrigation CSV which is $400 but if its going to triple the life of that pump, is well worth the money.
Jose M Solis
Just because the well will make 60 gpm doesn't mean you have a 60 gpm pump. Measure how much come out of 1 sprinkler in a minute and multiply times 8. I'm guessing more like 25 gpm. Then don't use the CSV125 if your not sure how much pressure the pump can make.
I have a pressure tank that is going bad. it is inside a square block structure and I cannot get to the plumbing easily to replace or bypass. can I just install the stop valve combo kit inside the basement just before the water softener and not worry about removing the old tank. it is in good shape on the outside, this would essentially make it a storage tank? Also I would bypass the pressure switch at the well and wire it to the combo kit inside the basement. I just bought your kit online and wanted to start preparing for install once it arrives.
You don't have to remove the old tank, but the plumbing needs to be disconnected. You cannot have a pressure tank before the CSV.
At the price that these cost, it seems cheaper to just replace the pump when it fails. Am I missing something?
Every time the pump fails you are also out of water, on top of the cost of a new pump. Without a CSV a pump might last 2-5 years. With a CSV 20-30 years. Even $200 pumps would add up quick. $1000-$2000 pumps would break the bank. There are lots more advantages with a CSV besides just making the pump last. But not enough space or time here to go into that. Which is why we have a huge web page and lots of videos to explain as much as we can. All the best.
I still don't get it. I'm thinking the pump puts put a fixed amount of water per minute. If the pump puts out more volume than is being used what happens to the excess flow? In other words, how does the CS valve vary the volume to regulate the pressure? Seems like there is a narrow range where flow rate and water usage would be close enough to reduce the number of pump cycles. The diagram seems to show there is a balance between flow rate and consumption. Wouldn't think this would be to common. There is still going to be pump cycling but at a lesser amount...?
I am sorry you still don't get it. As you can see I have tried many ways to explain this simple valve. And it is a simple valve. It just closes to reduce the flow from the pump, making the pump think it is in a deeper well, which makes it pump less water. The CSV just cannot close to less than 1 GPM. So as long as you are using more than 1 GPM the pump NEVER cycles. When you are no longer using any water, the 1 GPM coming through the CSV has no place left to go except the pressure tank. Then the pressure tank is filled to the pump shut off pressure and the pump is shut off. The next time you use water you cause another cycle. The pump only cycles for each individual time you start using water. But the pump NEVER cycles as long as the water is running, like systems without a CSV do.